{"id":151651,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151651","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/534e6c42fa7aedb35b3120933e24277aa8d86c0863c2f2caeadb1108e4b8443208f75701a873fd4f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭正鈐","委員發言時間":"11:06:56 - 11:16:54","影片長度":"00:09:58","會議時間":"2024-04-24T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關經濟部及所屬主管預算凍結案等21案。\n二、審查：\n（一）行政院函請審議「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）本院委員黃捷等17人擬具「工廠管理輔導法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）本院委員黃建賓等17人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）本院委員林思銘等23人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十二條及第二十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）本院委員王美惠等18人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）本院委員邱議瑩等16人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）本院委員蔡易餘等20人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（八）本院委員馬文君等18人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四及第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）本院委員鍾佳濱等17人擬具「工廠管理輔導法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十）本院委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n【4月24日及25日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-04-24","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-9"},"duration":598,"end_time":"2024-04-24T11:16:54+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-24T11:06:56+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":600,"blocks":[["鄭委員正鈐：（11時7分）謝謝主席，我想請王美花部長。"],["主席：來，請部長。"],["鄭委員正鈐：還有我們內政部消防署副組長，今天是副組長來。"],["主席：請消防署副組長。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["鄭委員正鈐：今天我們委員會這邊特別在審工廠管理輔導法，為什麼我同時請部長還有我們內政部的代表一起來？第一個，我們看到520之後美花部長可能有另外一個位置要去，我想說，雖然之前我們對經濟部這邊也有很多不同的質疑，可是在工廠管理輔導法這件事情當中，我覺得經濟部顯然比內政部有誠意的多，要來解決去年屏東明揚大火之後所產生的問題。這一點我覺得要給經濟部一個肯定，我們今天在審工廠管理輔導法，就是因為去年明揚大火之後，工廠當中有很多危險物品，可是這個問題不只是我們經濟部要面對，內政部消防署是真正相關的關係人，可是我想問一下內政部，你們的消防法提出修正了沒？送進院會裡面來了沒？"],["杜副組長汪濤：跟委員報告，其實我們本來已經都修好完成，可是在這個過程中，又要增加有關於消防同仁的職安專章，大概有十三個條文，所以這整個案子，院裡面給我們指示，要整個案子完成之後再來做相關的送審。現在目前的草案已經完成，我們也完成了所謂的性別以及……"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK！簡單回復，你們消防法的修正什麼時候會送到立法院來？因為行政院這邊也都還沒有過。"],["杜副組長汪濤：是。"],["鄭委員正鈐：因為屆期不連續，所以我為什麼特別講說經濟部在這件事情當中要解決危險物品處理的部分，比內政部來得有誠意得多？因為同樣都碰到屆期不連續，可是經濟部已經送進來了，今天經濟委員會已經在審了，所以你把這個訊息帶回去，請內政部加快腳步，好不好？其實去年明揚大火之後，消防人員他們提出了三個主要的訴求，請都好好地加以考慮，盡快把消防法再送進立法院裡面來。"],["杜副組長汪濤：是。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK！我想在這邊跟美花部長也做個溝通，520後不管你到哪裡去，我相信其實也都會有一個好的發展空間，我想特別提到，我們今天在講工廠輔導管理法的時候，因為它也是去年12月4號送進來，因為碰到屆期不連續，所以我們現在馬上就在送審。"],["王部長美花：對。"],["鄭委員正鈐：在這過程當中，我們也碰到了一個情況，就是去年在送工廠輔導管理法時，它也已經有預告今年6月要開始執行，是不是？子法的部分？"],["王部長美花：那個是子法的部分。"],["鄭委員正鈐：預告子法的部分？"],["王部長美花：對。"],["鄭委員正鈐：有關預告子法的部分有三個子法，都是今年6月要開始執行，是不是？"],["王部長美花：兩個子法，是。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK！就是工廠危險物品申報辦法這個部分。"],["王部長美花：是。"],["鄭委員正鈐：跟工廠危險物品投保公共意外責任保險辦法，這兩個子法。"],["王部長美花：對。"],["鄭委員正鈐：6月份要開始，在這個過程當中，我們有沒有在地方上做很多的說明？"],["王部長美花：有，這個確實，其實處罰已經到後端，比較重要是要讓廠商知道什麼東西是要申報的，這個就又講到他要申報之前，他問這個到底是不是要申報，我不清楚，所以相關的資訊系統，我們就在過去幾個月跟環境部、內政部有做非常多的討論……"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK！因為新竹科學園區這邊，其實工廠也非常多，也非常的密集，請問有沒有說明會到新竹竹科那邊去做說明？"],["王部長美花：有、有，我們也跟相關的科學園區管理局密切配合，也跟他們做溝通，我也跟委員報告，其實科學園區的比較單純。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK！針對明揚大火之後，經濟部這邊的動作，我覺得還是值得肯定，就是這個部分針對這件事情的處理，因為到時候整個稽查還是在內政部那邊，所以我們希望內政部能夠儘快，因為經濟部這邊是把工廠危險物品管理能夠先申報，也網路化。"],["王部長美花：對。"],["鄭委員正鈐：希望能夠用最有效率的部分，之後真正在執行還是消防相關的單位，還有地方政府，我們希望這個部分，都能夠很有效地去做一個溝通，好不好？"],["王部長美花：是，沒有錯。"],["鄭委員正鈐：再來，我還是針對電的問題跟美花部長做一個溝通，因為4月20號台電有發表一個新聞稿，說實話，王總經理被慰留下來，我相信對於整個台電接下來的穩定發展，我覺得還是可以值得肯定，因為坦白說，在野黨對於王總經理也沒有覺得他必須要下臺來負責這件事情，我只想針對，因為在整個台電新聞稿當中，他提到說「少數人滑著3C產品使用便利電力，卻對台電酸言酸語」，部長覺得這樣一個新聞稿適合嗎？"],["王部長美花：我想在過去那一段時間、那幾天，確實因為地震造成電廠故障，另外有一些設備故障的部分，確實網路上一些比較負面的評論，讓台電的同仁非常受傷。"],["鄭委員正鈐：理解，我們也知道基層的台電員工其實不容易，415確實也沒有出現跳電的情況，是大家把它cover起來，至於能源政策還有一些電價採購這部分，那是另外一個問題，因為之前講很多……"],["王部長美花：是。"],["鄭委員正鈐：我只想針對，因為他的新聞稿當中提到了用3C的人酸言酸語，我覺得其實不是很恰當，就像所有的人都用電，我們每個人都用電，可是我們還是一樣要監督台電很多部分的執行，所以我覺得這樣的新聞稿其實是有一些問題的，希望台電之後在整個新聞稿的處理當中能夠相對友善，而且更謙虛去看民眾的聲音。另外，新聞稿當中還提到一個點，2023年的事故停電次數與2012年比降低七成，部長，你對這個部分怎麼看？"],["王部長美花：確實，我們的事故每一次都有做相關的統計。"],["鄭委員正鈐：我要特別講一個狀態，我看了年報資料之後發現一個情況，從台電年報近10年主要經營數據指標，我們看到一個情況，從102年到110年每戶停電時間及每戶停電次數其實都差不多，每戶停電時間都在16分鐘，每戶每年的停電次數大概都是0.2次，數字事實上是差不多的，所以我對於減少七成這個數字其實是有一些疑惑的。因為我們看到整個年報資料發現數字是差不多的，這10年來並沒有太大的差距，尤其是在106年、110年及111年時有3次大停電，我們都把它排除在外，所以算起來的數字並沒有很大的差異。我對於台電的新聞稿，碰到問題要解決都沒有問題，可是如果有去修正或包裝的情況，我就覺得不是很妥當，部長在520之前還是可以對台電有很多的指導和指示，我們希望台電在面臨接下來的停電相關問題時的危機處理能夠更有誠意，而不是不斷地用美化數字的方式來解決這個問題。我們覺得它有不太精確的部分，如果有要補充說明的話，再來本辦公室做說明，對於這些數字怎麼來，我看到的都是年報上的數字，但我們覺得是有問題的。"],["王部長美花：好，關於停電的次數，臺灣是用停電超過1分鐘，如果超過1分鐘，我們就會算1次，有的國家是用超過5分鐘算1次，所以每個國家不一樣，但我們是用嚴格的1分鐘，超過1分鐘就會算1次。"],["鄭委員正鈐：部長，我理解。如果是減少七成的狀態，數字不應該是差不多一樣的數字。"],["王部長美花：數字不一樣。"],["鄭委員正鈐：針對台電怎麼去算這個數字，我希望再跟本辦公室做一個詳細說明。"],["王部長美花：我們再跟委員說明。"],["鄭委員正鈐：謝謝，以上。"],["主席：謝謝鄭正鈐委員。接下來請謝衣鳯委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":186,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-9","speakers":["邱議瑩","黃建賓","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","林思銘","林岱樺","張嘉郡","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳亭妃","呂玉玲","賴瑞隆","邱志偉","鄭正鈐","謝衣鳯","蔡易餘","何欣純","黃國昌","洪孟楷","黃捷","羅智強","牛煦庭","陳超明","鍾佳濱","陳冠廷","王美惠"],"page_start":115,"meetingDate":["2024-04-24"],"gazette_id":"1133301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133301_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關經濟部及所屬主管預算凍結案等 21案；二、審查：\n(一)行政院函請審議「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及第三十九條條文修正草\n案」案、(二)本院委員黃捷等17人擬具「工廠管理輔導法部分條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員\n黃建賓等 17 人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及第三十九條條文修正草\n案」案、(四)本院委員林思銘等23人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十二條及第二十九條條文修正草\n案」案、(五)本院委員王美惠等18人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第三十一條條文修正草案」案、(六)\n本院委員邱議瑩等16人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第三十一條條文修正草案」案、(七)本院委員蔡易\n餘等20 人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及第三十九條條文修正草案」\n案、(八)本院委員馬文君等18人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四及第三十一條條文修正\n草案」案、(九)本院委員鍾佳濱等17人擬具「工廠管理輔導法部分條文修正草案」案、(十)本院\n委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及第三十九條條文修正\n草案」案、(十一)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及\n第三十九條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133301_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"151651","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151651","tool":"pyannote","id":"151651-pyannote"},"job_id":"ogeUgkigruhmbL0D","queued_at":"2024-05-31 18:48:07","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 18:48:46","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151651"},{"time":"2024-05-31 18:48:47","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/534e6c42fa7aedb35b3120933e24277aa8d86c0863c2f2ca0ea7fa9c781b9e75f7596ce304e597315ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-05-31 18:49:03","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-05-31 18:49:05","msg":"running pyannote"},{"time":"2024-05-31 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585.318, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"責\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,089 --> 00:00:01,050\n負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任\n\n2\n00:00:34,756 --> 00:00:55,529\n今天我們委員會這邊特別在審工廠管理輔導法為什麼我同時請部長還有我們內政部這邊的代表一起來第一個看到了就是520之後我們美化部長可能有另外的一個位置要去\n\n3\n00:00:56,630 --> 00:01:24,089\n那我想說雖然之前我們對經濟部這邊也有很多不同的質疑可是我覺得在工廠管理輔導法這件事情當中我覺得經濟部顯然比內政部有誠意的多要來解決去年屏東民洋大火之後所產生的問題這一點我覺得是要給經濟部這邊一個肯定因為我們今天在審工廠管理輔導法這邊就是因為去年民洋大火之後然後工廠\n\n4\n00:01:25,550 --> 00:01:41,834\n當中有很多危險物品,可這個問題不只是我們經濟部要面對的,內政部、消防署這一邊是真正的相關的關係人啊。可是我想問一下內政部這一邊,你們消防法提出修正了沒?在送進院會裡面來了沒?\n\n5\n00:01:44,853 --> 00:02:13,503\n跟委員報告其實我們本來已經都修好完成可是在這個過程中又要增加有關於消防同仁的職安的專章大概有13個條文所以我們整個案子在院裡面跟我們指示要整個案子整個完成之後才在在做相關的送審那現在目前的草案已經完成我們也完成了所謂的性別以及那個簡單回覆你們這個消防法的修正什麼時候會送到立法院來\n\n6\n00:02:15,044 --> 00:02:36,464\n因為行政院這邊也都還沒有過嘛是因為屆期不連續啦所以我為什麼特別講說經濟部在這件事情當中要解決危險物品處理的部分比內政部來得有誠意的多因為同樣都碰到屆期不連續可是經濟部已經送進來了我們今天經濟委員會已經在審了所以您把這個訊息帶回去請內政部加快腳步\n\n7\n00:02:38,226 --> 00:02:55,727\n當時其實去年美洋大火之後消防人員他們提出了三個主要的訴求請都好好的加以考慮盡快把消防法在送進立法院裡面這邊來OK那我想說在這邊就跟那個美洋部長這邊就也做一個溝通\n\n8\n00:02:57,650 --> 00:03:11,770\n五二零不管說你到哪裡去我相信其實也都會有一個好的一個發展的一個空間那我想特別講說就是我們今天在講說工廠輔導管理法這邊的時候那因為他也是去年\n\n9\n00:03:13,031 --> 00:03:32,991\n三月四日送進來,又碰到屆期不連續,所以我們現在馬上就在送審。在這過程當中的時候,我們也碰到了一個情況,就是在整個去年的時候呢,在送工廠管理法的時候,它也已經有預告,已經有預告今年六月要開始執行是不是?\n\n10\n00:03:34,224 --> 00:03:36,225\n第二十八條之十四、第三十一條條文修正草案案。\n\n11\n00:04:02,133 --> 00:04:06,216\n有有這個確實其實處罰已經到後端比較重要是要讓廠商知道說你什麼東西是要申報的那這個就有講到說他要申報之前他說那這個到底是不是要申報我不清楚所以相關的資訊系統我們就在這個過去幾個月跟環境部跟內政部有做非常多的討論\n\n12\n00:04:24,005 --> 00:04:26,207\n新竹科學園區管理局與科學園區管理局密切配合與科學園區管理局溝通\n\n13\n00:04:44,665 --> 00:04:45,306\n負責任負責任負責任\n\n14\n00:05:00,006 --> 00:05:02,628\n二、審查：一、處理或審查一、二十一條之十四、第三十一條條文修正草案案。\n\n15\n00:05:25,502 --> 00:05:54,035\n那我想說在這邊的時候我還是針對電的問題跟對美亞部長做一個溝通因為4月20號的時候臺電有發表一個新聞稿說實話就是王總經理被未留下來我相信對於整個臺電接下來的穩定發展我覺得還是可以值得肯定因為坦白說在野黨對於王總經理也沒有覺得說他必須要下台來負責這件事情那我只想針對因為在整個臺電新聞稿當中他提到說\n\n16\n00:05:54,935 --> 00:06:18,224\n少數人華3C產品使用便利店,你卻對台電酸言酸語。你覺得這樣子的一個新聞稿適合嗎?部長。我想在過去那段時間那幾天確實受到因為地震造成這個電廠故障然後另外有一些設備故障的部分那確實網路上的這一些比較負面的評論非常讓台電的同仁受傷\n\n17\n00:06:22,025 --> 00:06:48,412\n你也知道基層台電的員工其實不容易啦那四一五確實也沒有出現跳電的一個情況確實大家把他cover起來那至於說能源政策還有一些電價零採購這部分的時候那是另外一個問題我先這邊因為之前講很多那我只想針對用信稿當中提到了一個就是用3C的人雙言雙語我覺得其實不是很恰當就像所有的人都用電\n\n18\n00:06:49,412 --> 00:07:15,963\n可是我們每個人都用電可是我們還是一樣要監督台電他很多部分的一個執行所以我覺得這樣的新聞稿我覺得是有一些問題的那希望說台電之後在整個新聞稿的處理當中的時候能夠相對友善而且更謙虛去看民眾的一個聲音那另外當中希望有達東還提到一個點他說2023年的事故停電次數跟2012年比降低七成這件事情部長你對這部分怎麼看\n\n19\n00:07:17,468 --> 00:07:30,443\n確實我們這個事故的這個都是每一次都有做相關的統計的因為我要特別講一個狀態因為我看了整個的一個年報資料當中\n\n20\n00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:34,380\n負責經濟部及所屬主管預算凍結案等21案等21案\n\n21\n00:07:51,431 --> 00:08:14,487\n他大概從102年到110年每戶的停電時間還有每戶停電的次數其實都差不多大概都在每戶停電的時間都在16分鐘那每戶每年的停電次數大概都在0.2次數字事實上是差不多的所以我對於這個減少七成這個數字其實是有一些疑惑的\n\n22\n00:08:15,808 --> 00:08:18,470\n三十六年、一百一十年及一百一十年當中有三次的大停電\n\n23\n00:08:33,542 --> 00:08:34,083\n凍結案凍結案凍結案凍結案凍結案凍結案凍結案\n\n24\n00:09:01,624 --> 00:09:13,835\n指導及指示,希望臺電在面臨接下來的停電相關問題時,等危機處理的時候能夠更有誠意,而不是不斷地用去美化數字的方式要來解決這個問題,我們覺得它是有\n\n25\n00:09:16,537 --> 00:09:43,356\n不太精確的部分那如果說有要補充說明的時候再來本辦公室做說明對於這些數字怎麼來我看都是年報上面的數字但我們覺得是有問題我們停電的次數我們台灣是用停電超過一分鐘如果超過一分鐘我們就會算一次那有的國家是會用超過五分鐘算一次所以每個國家不一樣但是我們是用嚴格的一分鐘超過一分鐘就會算一次\n\n26\n00:09:44,116 --> 00:09:45,318\n負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t1050\t負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任\n34756\t55529\t今天我們委員會這邊特別在審工廠管理輔導法為什麼我同時請部長還有我們內政部這邊的代表一起來第一個看到了就是520之後我們美化部長可能有另外的一個位置要去\n56630\t84089\t那我想說雖然之前我們對經濟部這邊也有很多不同的質疑可是我覺得在工廠管理輔導法這件事情當中我覺得經濟部顯然比內政部有誠意的多要來解決去年屏東民洋大火之後所產生的問題這一點我覺得是要給經濟部這邊一個肯定因為我們今天在審工廠管理輔導法這邊就是因為去年民洋大火之後然後工廠\n85550\t101834\t當中有很多危險物品,可這個問題不只是我們經濟部要面對的,內政部、消防署這一邊是真正的相關的關係人啊。可是我想問一下內政部這一邊,你們消防法提出修正了沒?在送進院會裡面來了沒?\n104853\t133503\t跟委員報告其實我們本來已經都修好完成可是在這個過程中又要增加有關於消防同仁的職安的專章大概有13個條文所以我們整個案子在院裡面跟我們指示要整個案子整個完成之後才在在做相關的送審那現在目前的草案已經完成我們也完成了所謂的性別以及那個簡單回覆你們這個消防法的修正什麼時候會送到立法院來\n135044\t156464\t因為行政院這邊也都還沒有過嘛是因為屆期不連續啦所以我為什麼特別講說經濟部在這件事情當中要解決危險物品處理的部分比內政部來得有誠意的多因為同樣都碰到屆期不連續可是經濟部已經送進來了我們今天經濟委員會已經在審了所以您把這個訊息帶回去請內政部加快腳步\n158226\t175727\t當時其實去年美洋大火之後消防人員他們提出了三個主要的訴求請都好好的加以考慮盡快把消防法在送進立法院裡面這邊來OK那我想說在這邊就跟那個美洋部長這邊就也做一個溝通\n177650\t191770\t五二零不管說你到哪裡去我相信其實也都會有一個好的一個發展的一個空間那我想特別講說就是我們今天在講說工廠輔導管理法這邊的時候那因為他也是去年\n193031\t212991\t三月四日送進來,又碰到屆期不連續,所以我們現在馬上就在送審。在這過程當中的時候,我們也碰到了一個情況,就是在整個去年的時候呢,在送工廠管理法的時候,它也已經有預告,已經有預告今年六月要開始執行是不是?\n214224\t216225\t第二十八條之十四、第三十一條條文修正草案 案。\n242133\t246216\t有有這個確實其實處罰已經到後端比較重要是要讓廠商知道說你什麼東西是要申報的那這個就有講到說他要申報之前他說那這個到底是不是要申報我不清楚所以相關的資訊系統我們就在這個過去幾個月跟環境部跟內政部有做非常多的討論\n264005\t266207\t新竹科學園區管理局 與科學園區管理局 密切配合與科學園區管理局 溝通\n284665\t285306\t負責任負責任負責任\n300006\t302628\t二、審查：一、處理或審查一、二十一條之十四、第三十一條條文修正草案案 。\n325502\t354035\t那我想說在這邊的時候我還是針對電的問題跟對美亞部長做一個溝通因為4月20號的時候臺電有發表一個新聞稿說實話就是王總經理被未留下來我相信對於整個臺電接下來的穩定發展我覺得還是可以值得肯定因為坦白說在野黨對於王總經理也沒有覺得說他必須要下台來負責這件事情那我只想針對因為在整個臺電新聞稿當中他提到說\n354935\t378224\t少數人華3C產品使用便利店,你卻對台電酸言酸語。你覺得這樣子的一個新聞稿適合嗎?部長。我想在過去那段時間那幾天確實受到因為地震造成這個電廠故障然後另外有一些設備故障的部分那確實網路上的這一些比較負面的評論非常讓台電的同仁受傷\n382025\t408412\t你也知道基層台電的員工其實不容易啦那四一五確實也沒有出現跳電的一個情況確實大家把他cover起來那至於說能源政策還有一些電價零採購這部分的時候那是另外一個問題我先這邊因為之前講很多那我只想針對用信稿當中提到了一個就是用3C的人雙言雙語我覺得其實不是很恰當就像所有的人都用電\n409412\t435963\t可是我們每個人都用電可是我們還是一樣要監督台電他很多部分的一個執行所以我覺得這樣的新聞稿我覺得是有一些問題的那希望說台電之後在整個新聞稿的處理當中的時候能夠相對友善而且更謙虛去看民眾的一個聲音那另外當中希望有達東還提到一個點他說2023年的事故停電次數跟2012年比降低七成這件事情部長你對這部分怎麼看\n437468\t450443\t確實我們這個事故的這個都是每一次都有做相關的統計的因為我要特別講一個狀態因為我看了整個的一個年報資料當中\n453680\t454380\t負責經濟部及所屬主管預算凍結案等21案等21案\n471431\t494487\t他大概從102年到110年每戶的停電時間還有每戶停電的次數其實都差不多大概都在每戶停電的時間都在16分鐘那每戶每年的停電次數大概都在0.2次數字事實上是差不多的所以我對於這個減少七成這個數字其實是有一些疑惑的\n495808\t498470\t三十六年、一百一十年及一百一十年當中有三次的大停電\n513542\t514083\t凍結案 凍結案 凍結案 凍結案 凍結案 凍結案 凍結案\n541624\t553835\t指導及指示,希望臺電在面臨接下來的停電相關問題時,等危機處理的時候能夠更有誠意,而不是不斷地用去美化數字的方式要來解決這個問題,我們覺得它是有\n556537\t583356\t不太精確的部分那如果說有要補充說明的時候再來本辦公室做說明對於這些數字怎麼來我看都是年報上面的數字但我們覺得是有問題我們停電的次數我們台灣是用停電超過一分鐘如果超過一分鐘我們就會算一次那有的國家是會用超過五分鐘算一次所以每個國家不一樣但是我們是用嚴格的一分鐘超過一分鐘就會算一次\n584116\t585318\t負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責\n","txt":"負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任\n今天我們委員會這邊特別在審工廠管理輔導法為什麼我同時請部長還有我們內政部這邊的代表一起來第一個看到了就是520之後我們美化部長可能有另外的一個位置要去\n那我想說雖然之前我們對經濟部這邊也有很多不同的質疑可是我覺得在工廠管理輔導法這件事情當中我覺得經濟部顯然比內政部有誠意的多要來解決去年屏東民洋大火之後所產生的問題這一點我覺得是要給經濟部這邊一個肯定因為我們今天在審工廠管理輔導法這邊就是因為去年民洋大火之後然後工廠\n當中有很多危險物品,可這個問題不只是我們經濟部要面對的,內政部、消防署這一邊是真正的相關的關係人啊。可是我想問一下內政部這一邊,你們消防法提出修正了沒?在送進院會裡面來了沒?\n跟委員報告其實我們本來已經都修好完成可是在這個過程中又要增加有關於消防同仁的職安的專章大概有13個條文所以我們整個案子在院裡面跟我們指示要整個案子整個完成之後才在在做相關的送審那現在目前的草案已經完成我們也完成了所謂的性別以及那個簡單回覆你們這個消防法的修正什麼時候會送到立法院來\n因為行政院這邊也都還沒有過嘛是因為屆期不連續啦所以我為什麼特別講說經濟部在這件事情當中要解決危險物品處理的部分比內政部來得有誠意的多因為同樣都碰到屆期不連續可是經濟部已經送進來了我們今天經濟委員會已經在審了所以您把這個訊息帶回去請內政部加快腳步\n當時其實去年美洋大火之後消防人員他們提出了三個主要的訴求請都好好的加以考慮盡快把消防法在送進立法院裡面這邊來OK那我想說在這邊就跟那個美洋部長這邊就也做一個溝通\n五二零不管說你到哪裡去我相信其實也都會有一個好的一個發展的一個空間那我想特別講說就是我們今天在講說工廠輔導管理法這邊的時候那因為他也是去年\n三月四日送進來,又碰到屆期不連續,所以我們現在馬上就在送審。在這過程當中的時候,我們也碰到了一個情況,就是在整個去年的時候呢,在送工廠管理法的時候,它也已經有預告,已經有預告今年六月要開始執行是不是?\n第二十八條之十四、第三十一條條文修正草案 案。\n有有這個確實其實處罰已經到後端比較重要是要讓廠商知道說你什麼東西是要申報的那這個就有講到說他要申報之前他說那這個到底是不是要申報我不清楚所以相關的資訊系統我們就在這個過去幾個月跟環境部跟內政部有做非常多的討論\n新竹科學園區管理局 與科學園區管理局 密切配合與科學園區管理局 溝通\n負責任負責任負責任\n二、審查：一、處理或審查一、二十一條之十四、第三十一條條文修正草案案 。\n那我想說在這邊的時候我還是針對電的問題跟對美亞部長做一個溝通因為4月20號的時候臺電有發表一個新聞稿說實話就是王總經理被未留下來我相信對於整個臺電接下來的穩定發展我覺得還是可以值得肯定因為坦白說在野黨對於王總經理也沒有覺得說他必須要下台來負責這件事情那我只想針對因為在整個臺電新聞稿當中他提到說\n少數人華3C產品使用便利店,你卻對台電酸言酸語。你覺得這樣子的一個新聞稿適合嗎?部長。我想在過去那段時間那幾天確實受到因為地震造成這個電廠故障然後另外有一些設備故障的部分那確實網路上的這一些比較負面的評論非常讓台電的同仁受傷\n你也知道基層台電的員工其實不容易啦那四一五確實也沒有出現跳電的一個情況確實大家把他cover起來那至於說能源政策還有一些電價零採購這部分的時候那是另外一個問題我先這邊因為之前講很多那我只想針對用信稿當中提到了一個就是用3C的人雙言雙語我覺得其實不是很恰當就像所有的人都用電\n可是我們每個人都用電可是我們還是一樣要監督台電他很多部分的一個執行所以我覺得這樣的新聞稿我覺得是有一些問題的那希望說台電之後在整個新聞稿的處理當中的時候能夠相對友善而且更謙虛去看民眾的一個聲音那另外當中希望有達東還提到一個點他說2023年的事故停電次數跟2012年比降低七成這件事情部長你對這部分怎麼看\n確實我們這個事故的這個都是每一次都有做相關的統計的因為我要特別講一個狀態因為我看了整個的一個年報資料當中\n負責經濟部及所屬主管預算凍結案等21案等21案\n他大概從102年到110年每戶的停電時間還有每戶停電的次數其實都差不多大概都在每戶停電的時間都在16分鐘那每戶每年的停電次數大概都在0.2次數字事實上是差不多的所以我對於這個減少七成這個數字其實是有一些疑惑的\n三十六年、一百一十年及一百一十年當中有三次的大停電\n凍結案 凍結案 凍結案 凍結案 凍結案 凍結案 凍結案\n指導及指示,希望臺電在面臨接下來的停電相關問題時,等危機處理的時候能夠更有誠意,而不是不斷地用去美化數字的方式要來解決這個問題,我們覺得它是有\n不太精確的部分那如果說有要補充說明的時候再來本辦公室做說明對於這些數字怎麼來我看都是年報上面的數字但我們覺得是有問題我們停電的次數我們台灣是用停電超過一分鐘如果超過一分鐘我們就會算一次那有的國家是會用超過五分鐘算一次所以每個國家不一樣但是我們是用嚴格的一分鐘超過一分鐘就會算一次\n負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:01.050\n負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任\n\n00:34.756 --> 00:55.529\n今天我們委員會這邊特別在審工廠管理輔導法為什麼我同時請部長還有我們內政部這邊的代表一起來第一個看到了就是520之後我們美化部長可能有另外的一個位置要去\n\n00:56.630 --> 01:24.089\n那我想說雖然之前我們對經濟部這邊也有很多不同的質疑可是我覺得在工廠管理輔導法這件事情當中我覺得經濟部顯然比內政部有誠意的多要來解決去年屏東民洋大火之後所產生的問題這一點我覺得是要給經濟部這邊一個肯定因為我們今天在審工廠管理輔導法這邊就是因為去年民洋大火之後然後工廠\n\n01:25.550 --> 01:41.834\n當中有很多危險物品,可這個問題不只是我們經濟部要面對的,內政部、消防署這一邊是真正的相關的關係人啊。可是我想問一下內政部這一邊,你們消防法提出修正了沒?在送進院會裡面來了沒?\n\n01:44.853 --> 02:13.503\n跟委員報告其實我們本來已經都修好完成可是在這個過程中又要增加有關於消防同仁的職安的專章大概有13個條文所以我們整個案子在院裡面跟我們指示要整個案子整個完成之後才在在做相關的送審那現在目前的草案已經完成我們也完成了所謂的性別以及那個簡單回覆你們這個消防法的修正什麼時候會送到立法院來\n\n02:15.044 --> 02:36.464\n因為行政院這邊也都還沒有過嘛是因為屆期不連續啦所以我為什麼特別講說經濟部在這件事情當中要解決危險物品處理的部分比內政部來得有誠意的多因為同樣都碰到屆期不連續可是經濟部已經送進來了我們今天經濟委員會已經在審了所以您把這個訊息帶回去請內政部加快腳步\n\n02:38.226 --> 02:55.727\n當時其實去年美洋大火之後消防人員他們提出了三個主要的訴求請都好好的加以考慮盡快把消防法在送進立法院裡面這邊來OK那我想說在這邊就跟那個美洋部長這邊就也做一個溝通\n\n02:57.650 --> 03:11.770\n五二零不管說你到哪裡去我相信其實也都會有一個好的一個發展的一個空間那我想特別講說就是我們今天在講說工廠輔導管理法這邊的時候那因為他也是去年\n\n03:13.031 --> 03:32.991\n三月四日送進來,又碰到屆期不連續,所以我們現在馬上就在送審。在這過程當中的時候,我們也碰到了一個情況,就是在整個去年的時候呢,在送工廠管理法的時候,它也已經有預告,已經有預告今年六月要開始執行是不是?\n\n03:34.224 --> 03:36.225\n第二十八條之十四、第三十一條條文修正草案案。\n\n04:02.133 --> 04:06.216\n有有這個確實其實處罰已經到後端比較重要是要讓廠商知道說你什麼東西是要申報的那這個就有講到說他要申報之前他說那這個到底是不是要申報我不清楚所以相關的資訊系統我們就在這個過去幾個月跟環境部跟內政部有做非常多的討論\n\n04:24.005 --> 04:26.207\n新竹科學園區管理局與科學園區管理局密切配合與科學園區管理局溝通\n\n04:44.665 --> 04:45.306\n負責任負責任負責任\n\n05:00.006 --> 05:02.628\n二、審查：一、處理或審查一、二十一條之十四、第三十一條條文修正草案案。\n\n05:25.502 --> 05:54.035\n那我想說在這邊的時候我還是針對電的問題跟對美亞部長做一個溝通因為4月20號的時候臺電有發表一個新聞稿說實話就是王總經理被未留下來我相信對於整個臺電接下來的穩定發展我覺得還是可以值得肯定因為坦白說在野黨對於王總經理也沒有覺得說他必須要下台來負責這件事情那我只想針對因為在整個臺電新聞稿當中他提到說\n\n05:54.935 --> 06:18.224\n少數人華3C產品使用便利店,你卻對台電酸言酸語。你覺得這樣子的一個新聞稿適合嗎?部長。我想在過去那段時間那幾天確實受到因為地震造成這個電廠故障然後另外有一些設備故障的部分那確實網路上的這一些比較負面的評論非常讓台電的同仁受傷\n\n06:22.025 --> 06:48.412\n你也知道基層台電的員工其實不容易啦那四一五確實也沒有出現跳電的一個情況確實大家把他cover起來那至於說能源政策還有一些電價零採購這部分的時候那是另外一個問題我先這邊因為之前講很多那我只想針對用信稿當中提到了一個就是用3C的人雙言雙語我覺得其實不是很恰當就像所有的人都用電\n\n06:49.412 --> 07:15.963\n可是我們每個人都用電可是我們還是一樣要監督台電他很多部分的一個執行所以我覺得這樣的新聞稿我覺得是有一些問題的那希望說台電之後在整個新聞稿的處理當中的時候能夠相對友善而且更謙虛去看民眾的一個聲音那另外當中希望有達東還提到一個點他說2023年的事故停電次數跟2012年比降低七成這件事情部長你對這部分怎麼看\n\n07:17.468 --> 07:30.443\n確實我們這個事故的這個都是每一次都有做相關的統計的因為我要特別講一個狀態因為我看了整個的一個年報資料當中\n\n07:33.680 --> 07:34.380\n負責經濟部及所屬主管預算凍結案等21案等21案\n\n07:51.431 --> 08:14.487\n他大概從102年到110年每戶的停電時間還有每戶停電的次數其實都差不多大概都在每戶停電的時間都在16分鐘那每戶每年的停電次數大概都在0.2次數字事實上是差不多的所以我對於這個減少七成這個數字其實是有一些疑惑的\n\n08:15.808 --> 08:18.470\n三十六年、一百一十年及一百一十年當中有三次的大停電\n\n08:33.542 --> 08:34.083\n凍結案凍結案凍結案凍結案凍結案凍結案凍結案\n\n09:01.624 --> 09:13.835\n指導及指示,希望臺電在面臨接下來的停電相關問題時,等危機處理的時候能夠更有誠意,而不是不斷地用去美化數字的方式要來解決這個問題,我們覺得它是有\n\n09:16.537 --> 09:43.356\n不太精確的部分那如果說有要補充說明的時候再來本辦公室做說明對於這些數字怎麼來我看都是年報上面的數字但我們覺得是有問題我們停電的次數我們台灣是用停電超過一分鐘如果超過一分鐘我們就會算一次那有的國家是會用超過五分鐘算一次所以每個國家不一樣但是我們是用嚴格的一分鐘超過一分鐘就會算一次\n\n09:44.116 --> 09:45.318\n負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":1.05,"text":"負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任"},{"start":34.756,"end":55.529,"text":"今天我們委員會這邊特別在審工廠管理輔導法為什麼我同時請部長還有我們內政部這邊的代表一起來第一個看到了就是520之後我們美化部長可能有另外的一個位置要去"},{"start":56.63,"end":84.089,"text":"那我想說雖然之前我們對經濟部這邊也有很多不同的質疑可是我覺得在工廠管理輔導法這件事情當中我覺得經濟部顯然比內政部有誠意的多要來解決去年屏東民洋大火之後所產生的問題這一點我覺得是要給經濟部這邊一個肯定因為我們今天在審工廠管理輔導法這邊就是因為去年民洋大火之後然後工廠"},{"start":85.55,"end":101.834,"text":"當中有很多危險物品,可這個問題不只是我們經濟部要面對的,內政部、消防署這一邊是真正的相關的關係人啊。可是我想問一下內政部這一邊,你們消防法提出修正了沒?在送進院會裡面來了沒?"},{"start":104.853,"end":133.503,"text":"跟委員報告其實我們本來已經都修好完成可是在這個過程中又要增加有關於消防同仁的職安的專章大概有13個條文所以我們整個案子在院裡面跟我們指示要整個案子整個完成之後才在在做相關的送審那現在目前的草案已經完成我們也完成了所謂的性別以及那個簡單回覆你們這個消防法的修正什麼時候會送到立法院來"},{"start":135.044,"end":156.464,"text":"因為行政院這邊也都還沒有過嘛是因為屆期不連續啦所以我為什麼特別講說經濟部在這件事情當中要解決危險物品處理的部分比內政部來得有誠意的多因為同樣都碰到屆期不連續可是經濟部已經送進來了我們今天經濟委員會已經在審了所以您把這個訊息帶回去請內政部加快腳步"},{"start":158.226,"end":175.727,"text":"當時其實去年美洋大火之後消防人員他們提出了三個主要的訴求請都好好的加以考慮盡快把消防法在送進立法院裡面這邊來OK那我想說在這邊就跟那個美洋部長這邊就也做一個溝通"},{"start":177.65,"end":191.77,"text":"五二零不管說你到哪裡去我相信其實也都會有一個好的一個發展的一個空間那我想特別講說就是我們今天在講說工廠輔導管理法這邊的時候那因為他也是去年"},{"start":193.031,"end":212.991,"text":"三月四日送進來,又碰到屆期不連續,所以我們現在馬上就在送審。在這過程當中的時候,我們也碰到了一個情況,就是在整個去年的時候呢,在送工廠管理法的時候,它也已經有預告,已經有預告今年六月要開始執行是不是?"},{"start":214.224,"end":216.225,"text":"第二十八條之十四、第三十一條條文修正草案 案。"},{"start":242.133,"end":246.216,"text":"有有這個確實其實處罰已經到後端比較重要是要讓廠商知道說你什麼東西是要申報的那這個就有講到說他要申報之前他說那這個到底是不是要申報我不清楚所以相關的資訊系統我們就在這個過去幾個月跟環境部跟內政部有做非常多的討論"},{"start":264.005,"end":266.207,"text":"新竹科學園區管理局 與科學園區管理局 密切配合與科學園區管理局 溝通"},{"start":284.665,"end":285.306,"text":"負責任負責任負責任"},{"start":300.006,"end":302.628,"text":"二、審查：一、處理或審查一、二十一條之十四、第三十一條條文修正草案案 。"},{"start":325.502,"end":354.035,"text":"那我想說在這邊的時候我還是針對電的問題跟對美亞部長做一個溝通因為4月20號的時候臺電有發表一個新聞稿說實話就是王總經理被未留下來我相信對於整個臺電接下來的穩定發展我覺得還是可以值得肯定因為坦白說在野黨對於王總經理也沒有覺得說他必須要下台來負責這件事情那我只想針對因為在整個臺電新聞稿當中他提到說"},{"start":354.935,"end":378.224,"text":"少數人華3C產品使用便利店,你卻對台電酸言酸語。你覺得這樣子的一個新聞稿適合嗎?部長。我想在過去那段時間那幾天確實受到因為地震造成這個電廠故障然後另外有一些設備故障的部分那確實網路上的這一些比較負面的評論非常讓台電的同仁受傷"},{"start":382.025,"end":408.412,"text":"你也知道基層台電的員工其實不容易啦那四一五確實也沒有出現跳電的一個情況確實大家把他cover起來那至於說能源政策還有一些電價零採購這部分的時候那是另外一個問題我先這邊因為之前講很多那我只想針對用信稿當中提到了一個就是用3C的人雙言雙語我覺得其實不是很恰當就像所有的人都用電"},{"start":409.412,"end":435.963,"text":"可是我們每個人都用電可是我們還是一樣要監督台電他很多部分的一個執行所以我覺得這樣的新聞稿我覺得是有一些問題的那希望說台電之後在整個新聞稿的處理當中的時候能夠相對友善而且更謙虛去看民眾的一個聲音那另外當中希望有達東還提到一個點他說2023年的事故停電次數跟2012年比降低七成這件事情部長你對這部分怎麼看"},{"start":437.468,"end":450.443,"text":"確實我們這個事故的這個都是每一次都有做相關的統計的因為我要特別講一個狀態因為我看了整個的一個年報資料當中"},{"start":453.68,"end":454.38,"text":"負責經濟部及所屬主管預算凍結案等21案等21案"},{"start":471.431,"end":494.487,"text":"他大概從102年到110年每戶的停電時間還有每戶停電的次數其實都差不多大概都在每戶停電的時間都在16分鐘那每戶每年的停電次數大概都在0.2次數字事實上是差不多的所以我對於這個減少七成這個數字其實是有一些疑惑的"},{"start":495.808,"end":498.47,"text":"三十六年、一百一十年及一百一十年當中有三次的大停電"},{"start":513.542,"end":514.083,"text":"凍結案 凍結案 凍結案 凍結案 凍結案 凍結案 凍結案"},{"start":541.624,"end":553.835,"text":"指導及指示,希望臺電在面臨接下來的停電相關問題時,等危機處理的時候能夠更有誠意,而不是不斷地用去美化數字的方式要來解決這個問題,我們覺得它是有"},{"start":556.537,"end":583.356,"text":"不太精確的部分那如果說有要補充說明的時候再來本辦公室做說明對於這些數字怎麼來我看都是年報上面的數字但我們覺得是有問題我們停電的次數我們台灣是用停電超過一分鐘如果超過一分鐘我們就會算一次那有的國家是會用超過五分鐘算一次所以每個國家不一樣但是我們是用嚴格的一分鐘超過一分鐘就會算一次"},{"start":584.116,"end":585.318,"text":"負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責"}]}}}}