{"id":151667,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151667","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/534e6c42fa7aedb3b9df01fe0ecca72ce793a383c05d564ceadb1108e4b84432e618dc1a809a36915ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳思瑤","委員發言時間":"11:31:30 - 11:42:05","影片長度":"00:10:35","會議時間":"2024-04-24T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查行政院函請審議「陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案」案。二、審查本院委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案」案。三、審查行政院函請審議「軍人權益事件處理法草案」案。四、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具「軍人權益事件處理法草案」案。【4月24日及25日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-04-24","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[35,36],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-35,36-1"},"duration":635,"end_time":"2024-04-24T11:42:05+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-24T11:31:30+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":599,"blocks":[["吳委員思瑤：（11時31分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：邱部長請。"],["吳委員思瑤：另外，政治作戰局的張副局長要陪同。"],["主席：請政戰局。"],["吳委員思瑤：我之前針對這個主題是跟育琳局長討論比較多。"],["邱部長國正：是，吳委員好。"],["吳委員思瑤：部長、各位國防部的同仁。我長期在教育及文化委員會，我想對於身心靈的關懷，從教育部門，尤其是高教端，我願意來分享我們改進的經驗，當然軍中的管理不同，但是我想心輔是一個專業，我希望大家藉由思瑤的分享，能夠給予國防部門在針對心輔機制是不是層層失靈的部分，我們能夠給彼此更多的啟發，畢竟國軍一定要身心靈健康，國軍強，國家才會強，我想這個共識大家都有。"],["邱部長國正：是。"],["吳委員思瑤：我把我長期追蹤的教育部門資訊分享一下，教育部門從國教到高教，這5年來學生的自殺死亡率成長了1.66倍，而人數攀升很關鍵的一件事情，也就是我要告訴國防部同仁們的，我們的心輔機制有沒有接住這樣需要協助的珍貴生命？以教育部門來講，這5年來因為自殺，有477位年輕的生命離開了，各級學校跟國軍一樣有三級的輔導機制，可是以大學端來講，根據2021年的統計，有65.5%自殺身亡的年輕生命是學校漏接的，從來沒有去向心輔機制提出救助的訊號，連SOS發出的機會都沒有，這是大學的部分。國軍呢？我非常認真地去找了資料，也謝謝你們的提供。這5年來國軍的自殺通報，包括已遂跟未遂，總共有158人，我們接住了多少人？只接住了11人，進入輔導的只有11人，換言之，高達93.1%自殺通報的人，我們的心輔機制接不住，所以非常難過地，自殺死亡的人數，這5年來失去了99位士官兵的珍貴生命，進入輔導的更只有5個人，所以漏接了94.9%，將近95%，這就是我們國軍三級的心輔機制失靈。","精準診斷才能夠有效防範，有健康的國軍才有健康的臺灣。但是你們所提供的自殺原因統計非常地粗略，只有告訴我們，原因四成是經濟因素，兩成五是感情因素，但是如果是專業的分析，你必須進入去研究他是志願役還是義務役，以及他的年齡層分布，這些都沒有做，這個請你們政戰局要馬上去做。唯有有效的分析才能夠來防範，尤其年齡層是重要的，包括他入伍服役多久、可能會發生需要求助的狀況，都需要專業的分析，我想部長同意嘛！對不對？"],["邱部長國正：是，同意，這應該要做的。"],["吳委員思瑤：這就是三級防處的機制，第一級，初級的發掘預防；第二級的專業輔導，第三級的醫療處遇，真的層層失靈，才會漏接了百分之九十五往生士官兵的生命。我要告訴大家，我剛也聽了部長的回復，你們說我們每一層都有督導，但心輔是專業，我請求部長、我請求局長，能夠把這句話聽進去，心輔是專業，它絕對需要專業的有效介入，否則那是無效的武器。","我跟您報告，目前我們的基層單位沒有心輔人力，全部都仰賴輔導長，二級的心輔中心編制人員451位，實際人員只有382位，具有專業證照人數只有60個；三級編制人員14個，實際人員13個，具體取得證照的是9位。統計來講，從基層單位二級、三級整個國軍的心輔人員取得證照的比例，我跟部長報告，只有69位，在整個國軍要服務16萬大軍，專業心輔證照的比例只有17.5%，這是一個非常嚴肅的課題。我再次說，心輔是專業，不要告訴我輔導長可以take care，他的關懷可能是錯誤的關懷，他想要關懷反而是給了壓力。","再跟您報告，我調閱出來的資料，剛剛說的國軍具有心輔專業證照的有69位，其實另外還有86位他畢業於心理相關的學系或者是社工相關的學系，有86位，可是他的工作本務不是心輔，非常可惜！所以兩條路，第一個，有心輔證照的人只有69位，他真的做心輔工作，人力要補強，專業要人盡其才，但是現役的……你還不用去外面求助、去攬才，有86位現在就在軍中，但是他不做心輔的工作，非常的可惜，可以優先透過調派人力的方式，讓這86位具備心理師、社工師相關證照的人員，來補強心輔的戰力，這做得到吧？部長。"],["邱部長國正：這可以做到，我們立刻去處理。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，部長，剛剛洪申翰委員他用的數字是1比400，就是我這個表格的最左邊，服務士官兵1比405，是以395位你們編的二級、三級的心輔人力的那個工作，可是他不是專業人力。如果以心輔的專業人力，整個國軍只有69個，而且他真的就是做心輔的工作，比起16萬大軍的比例是1比2,318，這個數字才是我們要面對的真相，是1比2,318。","我後面會快轉，我快速分享我在教育部門推動的經驗，謝謝主席，多給我一點點時間。教育部原本是1比1,200，我是說高教，吳思瑤不斷地質詢要求，現在要修學生輔導法，還沒修法前先用預算補助的方式，已經要求各大學要做到1比900，這是專業的心輔人力，1比900，大學是這樣做，現在還沒有修法，各校已經用預算撥補的方式去做了，所以想做是做得到的。我剛剛說了，監察院已經做出調查了，輔導長同時身兼軍紀、保防的工作，他是管理者，同時又要做心理輔導的工作，這是一個矛盾跟混亂的角色，他想要輔導、他想要關懷，結果是錯給了壓力，讓輔導長來做基層士官兵的心理輔導，不行！部長，我們必須面對這個真相，這個調查報告已經7年了，沒有改善。","我快轉，點出問題，現在義務役變1年，現在大學生1年級，4年畢業後未來他可以進到軍中去當兵，相關的心輔、社工畢業的就有819人，可以來善用這些人，在他的工作分配的時候來協助輔導長，協助二級、三級的人員。你們開缺在小選的機制裡頭，都需要什麼駕駛、資訊、機電人才，開一個心輔人才吧！這做得到吧！是不是？自己內部沒有辦法做，我們去轉介外部，我們去跟外部的輔導機構來合作，確實這幾年來向外部合作成長5.2倍，轉介數增加1.83倍，輔導人次增加3.29倍。但是預算不夠，沒有跟上來，預算只有從100萬增加到170萬……"],["主席：吳思瑤委員，麻煩摘要或者相關書面資料，我覺得政戰局值得研究。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，最後一件事情，大學現在開始有心理健康假，從吳思瑤2022年質詢的時候只有2校，現在有43校，教育部跟上來，心理健康假、身心調適假向下延伸，現在高中有42個學校試辦，今年9月要全面試辦。我也去向人事總處提出質詢，學生有心理健康假，公務人員也正在研議全臺灣的公務人員有心理健康假，不是為了放假而放假，是透過心理健康假可以讓我們的輔導機制去追蹤誰請了這個假、他需要什麼輔導。軍中的管理是不同的，我同意，可是我分享了教育部門的經驗、其他公務體系的經驗，我希望可以攪動大家的思維，我今天帶來的就是心輔需要專業。部長、副局長，我給您3個月的時間，我們再進一步來做探討，好嗎？"],["邱部長國正：好，謝謝委員。"],["吳委員思瑤：謝謝主席，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝吳思瑤委員，相關資料請部長跟政戰局進行研擬。","接下來進行詢答的委員是林憶君委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":304,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-35,36-1","speakers":["王定宇","馬文君","林楚茵","沈伯洋","黃國昌","羅美玲","黃仁","徐巧芯","陳永康","陳俊宇","羅智強","林思銘","洪申翰","翁曉玲","陳冠廷","吳思瑤","林憶君","鄭天財Sra 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{\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"吳\"}, {\"word\": \"思\", \"start\": 629.536, \"end\": 629.816, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"堯\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 629.816, \"end\": 630.396, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 630.396, \"end\": 630.737, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 630.737, \"end\": 630.857, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 630.857, \"end\": 632.218, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 632.218, \"end\": 632.358, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 632.358, \"end\": 632.598, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 632.598, \"end\": 632.898, \"score\": 0.762}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 632.898, \"end\": 633.358, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 633.358, \"end\": 633.519, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"局\", \"start\": 633.519, \"end\": 633.699, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"敬\", \"start\": 633.699, \"end\": 633.819, \"score\": 0.74}, {\"word\": \"嚴\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 633.819, \"end\": 633.999, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 633.999, \"end\": 634.019, \"score\": 0.025}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,229 --> 00:00:26,217\n有請部長。另外可能政治作戰局的張副局長要陪同。我之前針對這個主題是跟玉玲局長討論比較多。我長期在教育文化委員會部長各位國防部的同仁。我想對於身心靈的關懷從教育部門尤其是高教端\n\n2\n00:00:26,917 --> 00:00:52,149\n我願意來分享我們在改進的經驗。當然,軍中的管理不同,但是我想,心腹是一個專業。我希望大家能夠藉由私咬的分享,能夠給予國防部門在針對心腹機制是不是層層失靈的部分,我們能夠給彼此更多的啟發。畢竟,國軍一定要身心靈健康,\n\n3\n00:00:54,151 --> 00:01:09,084\n國軍強國家才會強。」我把我長期追蹤的教育部門教育部門從國教到高教就5年來學生的自殺死亡率成長1.66倍\n\n4\n00:01:11,346 --> 00:01:25,935\n而人數攀升很關鍵的一件事情也就是我要告訴國防部的同仁們是我們的心腹機制有沒有接住這樣需要協助的珍貴生命以教育部門來講自殺5年來有477位年輕的生命離開了\n\n5\n00:01:35,160 --> 00:02:02,942\n但是各級學校跟國軍一樣有三級的輔導機制可是以大學端來講2021年的統計65.5%的自殺身亡的年輕生命是學校漏接的從來沒有去向心腹機制來提出救助的訊號連SOS發出的機會都沒有這是大學下一頁\n\n6\n00:02:04,698 --> 00:02:27,248\n國軍呢?我非常認真的去找了我們的資料,也謝謝你們的提供。這幾年來,五年來,國軍的自殺通報,包括以稅跟未稅,總共有158人自殺通報。我們接住了多少人?只接住了11人,進入福島只有11人,換言之高達93.1%,\n\n7\n00:02:30,729 --> 00:02:51,556\n自殺通報的人我們的心腹機制接不住。」那以非常難過的自殺死亡的人數這5年來有99位珍貴的士官兵的生命進入福島的更只有5個人所以漏接了94.9%將近95%這就是我們的國軍三級的心腹機制就是失靈下一頁\n\n8\n00:03:01,584 --> 00:03:29,418\n精準診斷才能有效防範。」有健康的國軍才有健康的台灣。但是你們所提供的自殺的原因的統計,非常的粗略。只有告訴我們,原因四成是經濟因素,兩成五是感情因素。但是如果以專業的分析,你必須去進入他是志願役,他是義務役,他的年齡層分布。\n\n9\n00:03:30,848 --> 00:03:48,211\n沒有做,這個馬上請你們作戰局要去做。」唯有有效的分析才能夠來防範,尤其年齡層是重要的,包括他入伍服役多久,可能會發生需要求助的狀況,都需要專業的分析,我想部長同意嘛,對不對?這同意,這應該要做的。\n\n10\n00:03:49,672 --> 00:04:11,534\n這就是三級防處的機制,第一級初級的發掘預防,第二級的專業輔導,第三級的醫療處遇,真的層層失靈,才會有漏接了95%的往生的士官兵的生命。我要告訴大家,我剛也聽了部長的回覆,你們說我們每一層都有督導,\n\n11\n00:04:13,155 --> 00:04:37,348\n心腹是專業。」我請求部長、我請求局長能夠把這句話聽進去。心腹是專業。他絕對需要專業的有效介入,否則那是無效的武器。下一頁。我跟您報告,目前我們的基層單位沒有心腹人力,全部都仰賴輔導長。\n\n12\n00:04:39,366 --> 00:04:47,492\n二級的新府中心編制人員451位實際人員只有382位具有專業證照人數只有60個三級編制人員14個實際人員13個具體取得證照的是9位統計來講從基層單位二級、三級整個國軍的新府人員取得證照的比例我跟部長報告只有69位\n\n13\n00:05:07,848 --> 00:05:32,944\n專業的心腹證照的比例在整個國軍要服務16萬大軍,比例只有17.5。這是一個非常嚴肅的課題,我再次說心腹是專業,不要告訴我輔導長可以takecare,他的關懷可能是錯誤的關懷,他想要關懷反而是給了壓力。下一頁。\n\n14\n00:05:34,246 --> 00:05:54,726\n在跟您報告,我調閱出來的資料,剛剛說的國軍具有心腹證照的專業的有69位,其實另外還有86位他畢業於心理師相關的、心理相關的學系或者是社工相關的學系,有86位,可是他的工作本務不是心腹。\n\n15\n00:05:55,347 --> 00:06:13,966\n非常可惜,所以兩條路,第一個有新府證照的人只有69位,他真的做新府工作,人力要補強,專業要人盡其才,但是現役的你還不用去外面求助,心去攬財,有86位現在就在軍中,\n\n16\n00:06:14,807 --> 00:06:26,853\n但是他不做心腹的工作,非常的可惜,可以優先透過調派人力的方式,讓這86位具備心理師、社工師相關證照的人員來\n\n17\n00:06:29,004 --> 00:06:49,352\n補強新府的戰力。」這做得到吧,部長?這可以做到,我們立刻去處理。好,下一頁,部長。剛剛洪宣翰委員他用的數字是1比400,就是我這個表格的最左邊。服務士官兵1比405,是以395位你們編的二級、三級的新府人力的那個工作,可是他不是專業人力。\n\n18\n00:06:50,712 --> 00:06:59,896\n如果以新府的專業人力就是整個國軍只有69個而且他真的就是做新府的工作比起16萬大軍的話他的比例是1比2318這個數字才是我們要面對的真相是1比2318我後面會快轉我快速分享我在教育部門推動的經驗謝謝主席多給我一點點時間下一頁\n\n19\n00:07:18,004 --> 00:07:21,489\n交易簿原本是1比1200,我說是高教\n\n20\n00:07:23,619 --> 00:07:47,269\n吳思瑤不斷的質詢要求現在要修學生輔導法還沒修法前先用預算補助的方式已經要求各大學要做到1比900這是專業的幸福人力1比900這是大學這樣做現在已經各校還沒有修法用預算撥補的方式去做了所以想做是做得到的下一頁好我剛剛說了\n\n21\n00:07:50,690 --> 00:08:06,180\n檢察院已經做出了調查了,輔導長他同時身兼軍紀保防的工作,他是管理者,他同時又要做心理輔導的工作,這是一個矛盾跟混亂的角色。他想要輔導,他想要關懷,結果是給錯了壓力,讓輔導長來作為基層的、士官兵的\n\n22\n00:08:15,447 --> 00:08:39,646\n心理輔導,不行,部長,我們必須面對這個真相,這個調查報告已經7年了,沒有改善。」好,我快轉,點出問題,下一頁。現在,151變1年,現在大學生1年級未來4年畢業他可以進到軍中去當兵,相關的新府社工畢業的就有819人。\n\n23\n00:08:41,331 --> 00:08:45,344\n可以來善用這些人在他的工作分配的時候來協助輔導長、協助二級、三級的人員下一頁。\n\n24\n00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:56,225\n審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人\n\n25\n00:09:16,917 --> 00:09:22,823\n不夠沒有跟上來,預算只有從100萬增加到170萬。」這個事情,大學現在開始有心理健康假。\n\n26\n00:09:36,507 --> 00:09:49,635\n從吳思瑤2022年質詢的時候只有兩校,現在有43校。教育部跟上來,心理健康價、身心調適價向下延伸,現在高中有42個學校試辦,今年9月要全面試辦。下一頁\n\n27\n00:09:51,736 --> 00:10:04,772\n我也去向人事總處提出質詢,學生有心理健康假,公務人員也正在研議全台灣的公務人員有心理健康假,不是為了放假而放假,是透過心理健康假可以讓我們的輔導機制去追蹤誰請了這個假,他需要什麼輔導。\n\n28\n00:10:10,462 --> 00:10:34,019\n軍中的管理是不同的,我同意,可是我分享了教育部門的經驗,其他公務體系的經驗,我希望可以擾動大家的思維。我今天帶來的就是,心腹需要專業。部長、副局長,我給您三個月的時間,我們再進一步來做探討好嗎?好,謝謝吳思堯委員,相關資料請。好,謝謝主席,謝謝。部長跟政論局這邊,敬嚴你。好,謝謝。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n229\t26217\t有請部長。另外可能政治作戰局的張副局長要陪同。我之前針對這個主題是跟玉玲局長討論比較多。我長期在教育文化委員會部長各位國防部的同仁。我想對於身心靈的關懷從教育部門尤其是高教端\n26917\t52149\t我願意來分享我們在改進的經驗。當然,軍中的管理不同,但是我想,心腹是一個專業。我希望大家能夠藉由私咬的分享,能夠給予國防部門在針對心腹機制是不是層層失靈的部分,我們能夠給彼此更多的啟發。畢竟,國軍一定要身心靈健康,\n54151\t69084\t國軍強國家才會強。」我把我長期追蹤的教育部門教育部門從國教到高教就5年來學生的自殺死亡率成長1.66倍\n71346\t85935\t而人數攀升很關鍵的一件事情也就是我要告訴國防部的同仁們是我們的心腹機制有沒有接住這樣需要協助的珍貴生命以教育部門來講自殺5年來有477位年輕的生命離開了\n95160\t122942\t但是各級學校跟國軍一樣有三級的輔導機制可是以大學端來講2021年的統計65.5%的自殺身亡的年輕生命是學校漏接的從來沒有去向心腹機制來提出救助的訊號連SOS發出的機會都沒有這是大學 下一頁\n124698\t147248\t國軍呢?我非常認真的去找了我們的資料,也謝謝你們的提供。這幾年來,五年來,國軍的自殺通報,包括以稅跟未稅,總共有158人自殺通報。我們接住了多少人?只接住了11人,進入福島只有11人,換言之高達93.1%,\n150729\t171556\t自殺通報的人我們的心腹機制接不住。」那以非常難過的自殺死亡的人數這5年來有99位珍貴的士官兵的生命進入福島的更只有5個人所以漏接了94.9%將近95%這就是我們的國軍三級的心腹機制就是失靈下一頁\n181584\t209418\t精準診斷才能有效防範。」有健康的國軍才有健康的台灣。但是你們所提供的自殺的原因的統計,非常的粗略。只有告訴我們,原因四成是經濟因素,兩成五是感情因素。但是如果以專業的分析,你必須去進入他是志願役,他是義務役,他的年齡層分布。\n210848\t228211\t沒有做,這個馬上請你們作戰局要去做。」唯有有效的分析才能夠來防範,尤其年齡層是重要的,包括他入伍服役多久,可能會發生需要求助的狀況,都需要專業的分析,我想部長同意嘛,對不對?這同意,這應該要做的。\n229672\t251534\t這就是三級防處的機制,第一級初級的發掘預防,第二級的專業輔導,第三級的醫療處遇,真的層層失靈,才會有漏接了95%的往生的士官兵的生命。我要告訴大家,我剛也聽了部長的回覆,你們說我們每一層都有督導,\n253155\t277348\t心腹是專業。」我請求部長、我請求局長能夠把這句話聽進去。心腹是專業。他絕對需要專業的有效介入,否則那是無效的武器。下一頁。我跟您報告,目前我們的基層單位沒有心腹人力,全部都仰賴輔導長。\n279366\t287492\t二級的新府中心編制人員451位實際人員只有382位具有專業證照人數只有60個三級編制人員14個實際人員13個具體取得證照的是9位統計來講從基層單位二級、三級整個國軍的新府人員取得證照的比例我跟部長報告只有69位\n307848\t332944\t專業的心腹證照的比例在整個國軍要服務16萬大軍,比例只有17.5。這是一個非常嚴肅的課題,我再次說心腹是專業,不要告訴我輔導長可以take care,他的關懷可能是錯誤的關懷,他想要關懷反而是給了壓力。下一頁。\n334246\t354726\t在跟您報告,我調閱出來的資料,剛剛說的國軍具有心腹證照的專業的有69位,其實另外還有86位他畢業於心理師相關的、心理相關的學系或者是社工相關的學系,有86位,可是他的工作本務不是心腹。\n355347\t373966\t非常可惜,所以兩條路,第一個有新府證照的人只有69位,他真的做新府工作,人力要補強,專業要人盡其才,但是現役的你還不用去外面求助,心去攬財,有86位現在就在軍中,\n374807\t386853\t但是他不做心腹的工作,非常的可惜,可以優先透過調派人力的方式,讓這86位具備心理師、社工師相關證照的人員來\n389004\t409352\t補強新府的戰力。」這做得到吧,部長?這可以做到,我們立刻去處理。好,下一頁,部長。剛剛洪宣翰委員他用的數字是1比400,就是我這個表格的最左邊。服務士官兵1比405,是以395位你們編的二級、三級的新府人力的那個工作,可是他不是專業人力。\n410712\t419896\t如果以新府的專業人力就是整個國軍只有69個而且他真的就是做新府的工作比起16萬大軍的話他的比例是1比2318這個數字才是我們要面對的真相是1比2318我後面會快轉我快速分享我在教育部門推動的經驗謝謝主席多給我一點點時間下一頁\n438004\t441489\t交易簿原本是1比1200,我說是高教\n443619\t467269\t吳思瑤不斷的質詢要求現在要修學生輔導法還沒修法前先用預算補助的方式已經要求各大學要做到1比900這是專業的幸福人力1比900這是大學這樣做現在已經各校還沒有修法用預算撥補的方式去做了所以想做是做得到的下一頁好我剛剛說了\n470690\t486180\t檢察院已經做出了調查了,輔導長他同時身兼軍紀保防的工作,他是管理者,他同時又要做心理輔導的工作,這是一個矛盾跟混亂的角色。他想要輔導,他想要關懷,結果是給錯了壓力,讓輔導長來作為基層的、士官兵的\n495447\t519646\t心理輔導,不行,部長,我們必須面對這個真相,這個調查報告已經7年了,沒有改善。」好,我快轉,點出問題,下一頁。現在,151變1年,現在大學生1年級未來4年畢業他可以進到軍中去當兵,相關的新府社工畢業的就有819人。\n521331\t525344\t可以來善用這些人在他的工作分配的時候來協助輔導長、協助二級、三級的人員下一頁。\n528840\t536225\t審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人\n556917\t562823\t不夠沒有跟上來,預算只有從100萬增加到170萬。」這個事情,大學現在開始有心理健康假。\n576507\t589635\t從吳思瑤2022年質詢的時候只有兩校,現在有43校。教育部跟上來,心理健康價、身心調適價向下延伸,現在高中有42個學校試辦,今年9月要全面試辦。下一頁\n591736\t604772\t我也去向人事總處提出質詢,學生有心理健康假,公務人員也正在研議全台灣的公務人員有心理健康假,不是為了放假而放假,是透過心理健康假可以讓我們的輔導機制去追蹤誰請了這個假,他需要什麼輔導。\n610462\t634019\t軍中的管理是不同的,我同意,可是我分享了教育部門的經驗,其他公務體系的經驗,我希望可以擾動大家的思維。我今天帶來的就是,心腹需要專業。部長、副局長,我給您三個月的時間,我們再進一步來做探討好嗎?好,謝謝吳思堯委員,相關資料請。好,謝謝主席,謝謝。部長跟政論局這邊,敬嚴你。好,謝謝。\n","txt":"有請部長。另外可能政治作戰局的張副局長要陪同。我之前針對這個主題是跟玉玲局長討論比較多。我長期在教育文化委員會部長各位國防部的同仁。我想對於身心靈的關懷從教育部門尤其是高教端\n我願意來分享我們在改進的經驗。當然,軍中的管理不同,但是我想,心腹是一個專業。我希望大家能夠藉由私咬的分享,能夠給予國防部門在針對心腹機制是不是層層失靈的部分,我們能夠給彼此更多的啟發。畢竟,國軍一定要身心靈健康,\n國軍強國家才會強。」我把我長期追蹤的教育部門教育部門從國教到高教就5年來學生的自殺死亡率成長1.66倍\n而人數攀升很關鍵的一件事情也就是我要告訴國防部的同仁們是我們的心腹機制有沒有接住這樣需要協助的珍貴生命以教育部門來講自殺5年來有477位年輕的生命離開了\n但是各級學校跟國軍一樣有三級的輔導機制可是以大學端來講2021年的統計65.5%的自殺身亡的年輕生命是學校漏接的從來沒有去向心腹機制來提出救助的訊號連SOS發出的機會都沒有這是大學 下一頁\n國軍呢?我非常認真的去找了我們的資料,也謝謝你們的提供。這幾年來,五年來,國軍的自殺通報,包括以稅跟未稅,總共有158人自殺通報。我們接住了多少人?只接住了11人,進入福島只有11人,換言之高達93.1%,\n自殺通報的人我們的心腹機制接不住。」那以非常難過的自殺死亡的人數這5年來有99位珍貴的士官兵的生命進入福島的更只有5個人所以漏接了94.9%將近95%這就是我們的國軍三級的心腹機制就是失靈下一頁\n精準診斷才能有效防範。」有健康的國軍才有健康的台灣。但是你們所提供的自殺的原因的統計,非常的粗略。只有告訴我們,原因四成是經濟因素,兩成五是感情因素。但是如果以專業的分析,你必須去進入他是志願役,他是義務役,他的年齡層分布。\n沒有做,這個馬上請你們作戰局要去做。」唯有有效的分析才能夠來防範,尤其年齡層是重要的,包括他入伍服役多久,可能會發生需要求助的狀況,都需要專業的分析,我想部長同意嘛,對不對?這同意,這應該要做的。\n這就是三級防處的機制,第一級初級的發掘預防,第二級的專業輔導,第三級的醫療處遇,真的層層失靈,才會有漏接了95%的往生的士官兵的生命。我要告訴大家,我剛也聽了部長的回覆,你們說我們每一層都有督導,\n心腹是專業。」我請求部長、我請求局長能夠把這句話聽進去。心腹是專業。他絕對需要專業的有效介入,否則那是無效的武器。下一頁。我跟您報告,目前我們的基層單位沒有心腹人力,全部都仰賴輔導長。\n二級的新府中心編制人員451位實際人員只有382位具有專業證照人數只有60個三級編制人員14個實際人員13個具體取得證照的是9位統計來講從基層單位二級、三級整個國軍的新府人員取得證照的比例我跟部長報告只有69位\n專業的心腹證照的比例在整個國軍要服務16萬大軍,比例只有17.5。這是一個非常嚴肅的課題,我再次說心腹是專業,不要告訴我輔導長可以take care,他的關懷可能是錯誤的關懷,他想要關懷反而是給了壓力。下一頁。\n在跟您報告,我調閱出來的資料,剛剛說的國軍具有心腹證照的專業的有69位,其實另外還有86位他畢業於心理師相關的、心理相關的學系或者是社工相關的學系,有86位,可是他的工作本務不是心腹。\n非常可惜,所以兩條路,第一個有新府證照的人只有69位,他真的做新府工作,人力要補強,專業要人盡其才,但是現役的你還不用去外面求助,心去攬財,有86位現在就在軍中,\n但是他不做心腹的工作,非常的可惜,可以優先透過調派人力的方式,讓這86位具備心理師、社工師相關證照的人員來\n補強新府的戰力。」這做得到吧,部長?這可以做到,我們立刻去處理。好,下一頁,部長。剛剛洪宣翰委員他用的數字是1比400,就是我這個表格的最左邊。服務士官兵1比405,是以395位你們編的二級、三級的新府人力的那個工作,可是他不是專業人力。\n如果以新府的專業人力就是整個國軍只有69個而且他真的就是做新府的工作比起16萬大軍的話他的比例是1比2318這個數字才是我們要面對的真相是1比2318我後面會快轉我快速分享我在教育部門推動的經驗謝謝主席多給我一點點時間下一頁\n交易簿原本是1比1200,我說是高教\n吳思瑤不斷的質詢要求現在要修學生輔導法還沒修法前先用預算補助的方式已經要求各大學要做到1比900這是專業的幸福人力1比900這是大學這樣做現在已經各校還沒有修法用預算撥補的方式去做了所以想做是做得到的下一頁好我剛剛說了\n檢察院已經做出了調查了,輔導長他同時身兼軍紀保防的工作,他是管理者,他同時又要做心理輔導的工作,這是一個矛盾跟混亂的角色。他想要輔導,他想要關懷,結果是給錯了壓力,讓輔導長來作為基層的、士官兵的\n心理輔導,不行,部長,我們必須面對這個真相,這個調查報告已經7年了,沒有改善。」好,我快轉,點出問題,下一頁。現在,151變1年,現在大學生1年級未來4年畢業他可以進到軍中去當兵,相關的新府社工畢業的就有819人。\n可以來善用這些人在他的工作分配的時候來協助輔導長、協助二級、三級的人員下一頁。\n審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人\n不夠沒有跟上來,預算只有從100萬增加到170萬。」這個事情,大學現在開始有心理健康假。\n從吳思瑤2022年質詢的時候只有兩校,現在有43校。教育部跟上來,心理健康價、身心調適價向下延伸,現在高中有42個學校試辦,今年9月要全面試辦。下一頁\n我也去向人事總處提出質詢,學生有心理健康假,公務人員也正在研議全台灣的公務人員有心理健康假,不是為了放假而放假,是透過心理健康假可以讓我們的輔導機制去追蹤誰請了這個假,他需要什麼輔導。\n軍中的管理是不同的,我同意,可是我分享了教育部門的經驗,其他公務體系的經驗,我希望可以擾動大家的思維。我今天帶來的就是,心腹需要專業。部長、副局長,我給您三個月的時間,我們再進一步來做探討好嗎?好,謝謝吳思堯委員,相關資料請。好,謝謝主席,謝謝。部長跟政論局這邊,敬嚴你。好,謝謝。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.229 --> 00:26.217\n有請部長。另外可能政治作戰局的張副局長要陪同。我之前針對這個主題是跟玉玲局長討論比較多。我長期在教育文化委員會部長各位國防部的同仁。我想對於身心靈的關懷從教育部門尤其是高教端\n\n00:26.917 --> 00:52.149\n我願意來分享我們在改進的經驗。當然,軍中的管理不同,但是我想,心腹是一個專業。我希望大家能夠藉由私咬的分享,能夠給予國防部門在針對心腹機制是不是層層失靈的部分,我們能夠給彼此更多的啟發。畢竟,國軍一定要身心靈健康,\n\n00:54.151 --> 01:09.084\n國軍強國家才會強。」我把我長期追蹤的教育部門教育部門從國教到高教就5年來學生的自殺死亡率成長1.66倍\n\n01:11.346 --> 01:25.935\n而人數攀升很關鍵的一件事情也就是我要告訴國防部的同仁們是我們的心腹機制有沒有接住這樣需要協助的珍貴生命以教育部門來講自殺5年來有477位年輕的生命離開了\n\n01:35.160 --> 02:02.942\n但是各級學校跟國軍一樣有三級的輔導機制可是以大學端來講2021年的統計65.5%的自殺身亡的年輕生命是學校漏接的從來沒有去向心腹機制來提出救助的訊號連SOS發出的機會都沒有這是大學下一頁\n\n02:04.698 --> 02:27.248\n國軍呢?我非常認真的去找了我們的資料,也謝謝你們的提供。這幾年來,五年來,國軍的自殺通報,包括以稅跟未稅,總共有158人自殺通報。我們接住了多少人?只接住了11人,進入福島只有11人,換言之高達93.1%,\n\n02:30.729 --> 02:51.556\n自殺通報的人我們的心腹機制接不住。」那以非常難過的自殺死亡的人數這5年來有99位珍貴的士官兵的生命進入福島的更只有5個人所以漏接了94.9%將近95%這就是我們的國軍三級的心腹機制就是失靈下一頁\n\n03:01.584 --> 03:29.418\n精準診斷才能有效防範。」有健康的國軍才有健康的台灣。但是你們所提供的自殺的原因的統計,非常的粗略。只有告訴我們,原因四成是經濟因素,兩成五是感情因素。但是如果以專業的分析,你必須去進入他是志願役,他是義務役,他的年齡層分布。\n\n03:30.848 --> 03:48.211\n沒有做,這個馬上請你們作戰局要去做。」唯有有效的分析才能夠來防範,尤其年齡層是重要的,包括他入伍服役多久,可能會發生需要求助的狀況,都需要專業的分析,我想部長同意嘛,對不對?這同意,這應該要做的。\n\n03:49.672 --> 04:11.534\n這就是三級防處的機制,第一級初級的發掘預防,第二級的專業輔導,第三級的醫療處遇,真的層層失靈,才會有漏接了95%的往生的士官兵的生命。我要告訴大家,我剛也聽了部長的回覆,你們說我們每一層都有督導,\n\n04:13.155 --> 04:37.348\n心腹是專業。」我請求部長、我請求局長能夠把這句話聽進去。心腹是專業。他絕對需要專業的有效介入,否則那是無效的武器。下一頁。我跟您報告,目前我們的基層單位沒有心腹人力,全部都仰賴輔導長。\n\n04:39.366 --> 04:47.492\n二級的新府中心編制人員451位實際人員只有382位具有專業證照人數只有60個三級編制人員14個實際人員13個具體取得證照的是9位統計來講從基層單位二級、三級整個國軍的新府人員取得證照的比例我跟部長報告只有69位\n\n05:07.848 --> 05:32.944\n專業的心腹證照的比例在整個國軍要服務16萬大軍,比例只有17.5。這是一個非常嚴肅的課題,我再次說心腹是專業,不要告訴我輔導長可以takecare,他的關懷可能是錯誤的關懷,他想要關懷反而是給了壓力。下一頁。\n\n05:34.246 --> 05:54.726\n在跟您報告,我調閱出來的資料,剛剛說的國軍具有心腹證照的專業的有69位,其實另外還有86位他畢業於心理師相關的、心理相關的學系或者是社工相關的學系,有86位,可是他的工作本務不是心腹。\n\n05:55.347 --> 06:13.966\n非常可惜,所以兩條路,第一個有新府證照的人只有69位,他真的做新府工作,人力要補強,專業要人盡其才,但是現役的你還不用去外面求助,心去攬財,有86位現在就在軍中,\n\n06:14.807 --> 06:26.853\n但是他不做心腹的工作,非常的可惜,可以優先透過調派人力的方式,讓這86位具備心理師、社工師相關證照的人員來\n\n06:29.004 --> 06:49.352\n補強新府的戰力。」這做得到吧,部長?這可以做到,我們立刻去處理。好,下一頁,部長。剛剛洪宣翰委員他用的數字是1比400,就是我這個表格的最左邊。服務士官兵1比405,是以395位你們編的二級、三級的新府人力的那個工作,可是他不是專業人力。\n\n06:50.712 --> 06:59.896\n如果以新府的專業人力就是整個國軍只有69個而且他真的就是做新府的工作比起16萬大軍的話他的比例是1比2318這個數字才是我們要面對的真相是1比2318我後面會快轉我快速分享我在教育部門推動的經驗謝謝主席多給我一點點時間下一頁\n\n07:18.004 --> 07:21.489\n交易簿原本是1比1200,我說是高教\n\n07:23.619 --> 07:47.269\n吳思瑤不斷的質詢要求現在要修學生輔導法還沒修法前先用預算補助的方式已經要求各大學要做到1比900這是專業的幸福人力1比900這是大學這樣做現在已經各校還沒有修法用預算撥補的方式去做了所以想做是做得到的下一頁好我剛剛說了\n\n07:50.690 --> 08:06.180\n檢察院已經做出了調查了,輔導長他同時身兼軍紀保防的工作,他是管理者,他同時又要做心理輔導的工作,這是一個矛盾跟混亂的角色。他想要輔導,他想要關懷,結果是給錯了壓力,讓輔導長來作為基層的、士官兵的\n\n08:15.447 --> 08:39.646\n心理輔導,不行,部長,我們必須面對這個真相,這個調查報告已經7年了,沒有改善。」好,我快轉,點出問題,下一頁。現在,151變1年,現在大學生1年級未來4年畢業他可以進到軍中去當兵,相關的新府社工畢業的就有819人。\n\n08:41.331 --> 08:45.344\n可以來善用這些人在他的工作分配的時候來協助輔導長、協助二級、三級的人員下一頁。\n\n08:48.840 --> 08:56.225\n審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人\n\n09:16.917 --> 09:22.823\n不夠沒有跟上來,預算只有從100萬增加到170萬。」這個事情,大學現在開始有心理健康假。\n\n09:36.507 --> 09:49.635\n從吳思瑤2022年質詢的時候只有兩校,現在有43校。教育部跟上來,心理健康價、身心調適價向下延伸,現在高中有42個學校試辦,今年9月要全面試辦。下一頁\n\n09:51.736 --> 10:04.772\n我也去向人事總處提出質詢,學生有心理健康假,公務人員也正在研議全台灣的公務人員有心理健康假,不是為了放假而放假,是透過心理健康假可以讓我們的輔導機制去追蹤誰請了這個假,他需要什麼輔導。\n\n10:10.462 --> 10:34.019\n軍中的管理是不同的,我同意,可是我分享了教育部門的經驗,其他公務體系的經驗,我希望可以擾動大家的思維。我今天帶來的就是,心腹需要專業。部長、副局長,我給您三個月的時間,我們再進一步來做探討好嗎?好,謝謝吳思堯委員,相關資料請。好,謝謝主席,謝謝。部長跟政論局這邊,敬嚴你。好,謝謝。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.229,"end":26.217,"text":"有請部長。另外可能政治作戰局的張副局長要陪同。我之前針對這個主題是跟玉玲局長討論比較多。我長期在教育文化委員會部長各位國防部的同仁。我想對於身心靈的關懷從教育部門尤其是高教端"},{"start":26.917,"end":52.149,"text":"我願意來分享我們在改進的經驗。當然,軍中的管理不同,但是我想,心腹是一個專業。我希望大家能夠藉由私咬的分享,能夠給予國防部門在針對心腹機制是不是層層失靈的部分,我們能夠給彼此更多的啟發。畢竟,國軍一定要身心靈健康,"},{"start":54.151,"end":69.084,"text":"國軍強國家才會強。」我把我長期追蹤的教育部門教育部門從國教到高教就5年來學生的自殺死亡率成長1.66倍"},{"start":71.346,"end":85.935,"text":"而人數攀升很關鍵的一件事情也就是我要告訴國防部的同仁們是我們的心腹機制有沒有接住這樣需要協助的珍貴生命以教育部門來講自殺5年來有477位年輕的生命離開了"},{"start":95.16,"end":122.942,"text":"但是各級學校跟國軍一樣有三級的輔導機制可是以大學端來講2021年的統計65.5%的自殺身亡的年輕生命是學校漏接的從來沒有去向心腹機制來提出救助的訊號連SOS發出的機會都沒有這是大學 下一頁"},{"start":124.698,"end":147.248,"text":"國軍呢?我非常認真的去找了我們的資料,也謝謝你們的提供。這幾年來,五年來,國軍的自殺通報,包括以稅跟未稅,總共有158人自殺通報。我們接住了多少人?只接住了11人,進入福島只有11人,換言之高達93.1%,"},{"start":150.729,"end":171.556,"text":"自殺通報的人我們的心腹機制接不住。」那以非常難過的自殺死亡的人數這5年來有99位珍貴的士官兵的生命進入福島的更只有5個人所以漏接了94.9%將近95%這就是我們的國軍三級的心腹機制就是失靈下一頁"},{"start":181.584,"end":209.418,"text":"精準診斷才能有效防範。」有健康的國軍才有健康的台灣。但是你們所提供的自殺的原因的統計,非常的粗略。只有告訴我們,原因四成是經濟因素,兩成五是感情因素。但是如果以專業的分析,你必須去進入他是志願役,他是義務役,他的年齡層分布。"},{"start":210.848,"end":228.211,"text":"沒有做,這個馬上請你們作戰局要去做。」唯有有效的分析才能夠來防範,尤其年齡層是重要的,包括他入伍服役多久,可能會發生需要求助的狀況,都需要專業的分析,我想部長同意嘛,對不對?這同意,這應該要做的。"},{"start":229.672,"end":251.534,"text":"這就是三級防處的機制,第一級初級的發掘預防,第二級的專業輔導,第三級的醫療處遇,真的層層失靈,才會有漏接了95%的往生的士官兵的生命。我要告訴大家,我剛也聽了部長的回覆,你們說我們每一層都有督導,"},{"start":253.155,"end":277.348,"text":"心腹是專業。」我請求部長、我請求局長能夠把這句話聽進去。心腹是專業。他絕對需要專業的有效介入,否則那是無效的武器。下一頁。我跟您報告,目前我們的基層單位沒有心腹人力,全部都仰賴輔導長。"},{"start":279.366,"end":287.492,"text":"二級的新府中心編制人員451位實際人員只有382位具有專業證照人數只有60個三級編制人員14個實際人員13個具體取得證照的是9位統計來講從基層單位二級、三級整個國軍的新府人員取得證照的比例我跟部長報告只有69位"},{"start":307.848,"end":332.944,"text":"專業的心腹證照的比例在整個國軍要服務16萬大軍,比例只有17.5。這是一個非常嚴肅的課題,我再次說心腹是專業,不要告訴我輔導長可以take care,他的關懷可能是錯誤的關懷,他想要關懷反而是給了壓力。下一頁。"},{"start":334.246,"end":354.726,"text":"在跟您報告,我調閱出來的資料,剛剛說的國軍具有心腹證照的專業的有69位,其實另外還有86位他畢業於心理師相關的、心理相關的學系或者是社工相關的學系,有86位,可是他的工作本務不是心腹。"},{"start":355.347,"end":373.966,"text":"非常可惜,所以兩條路,第一個有新府證照的人只有69位,他真的做新府工作,人力要補強,專業要人盡其才,但是現役的你還不用去外面求助,心去攬財,有86位現在就在軍中,"},{"start":374.807,"end":386.853,"text":"但是他不做心腹的工作,非常的可惜,可以優先透過調派人力的方式,讓這86位具備心理師、社工師相關證照的人員來"},{"start":389.004,"end":409.352,"text":"補強新府的戰力。」這做得到吧,部長?這可以做到,我們立刻去處理。好,下一頁,部長。剛剛洪宣翰委員他用的數字是1比400,就是我這個表格的最左邊。服務士官兵1比405,是以395位你們編的二級、三級的新府人力的那個工作,可是他不是專業人力。"},{"start":410.712,"end":419.896,"text":"如果以新府的專業人力就是整個國軍只有69個而且他真的就是做新府的工作比起16萬大軍的話他的比例是1比2318這個數字才是我們要面對的真相是1比2318我後面會快轉我快速分享我在教育部門推動的經驗謝謝主席多給我一點點時間下一頁"},{"start":438.004,"end":441.489,"text":"交易簿原本是1比1200,我說是高教"},{"start":443.619,"end":467.269,"text":"吳思瑤不斷的質詢要求現在要修學生輔導法還沒修法前先用預算補助的方式已經要求各大學要做到1比900這是專業的幸福人力1比900這是大學這樣做現在已經各校還沒有修法用預算撥補的方式去做了所以想做是做得到的下一頁好我剛剛說了"},{"start":470.69,"end":486.18,"text":"檢察院已經做出了調查了,輔導長他同時身兼軍紀保防的工作,他是管理者,他同時又要做心理輔導的工作,這是一個矛盾跟混亂的角色。他想要輔導,他想要關懷,結果是給錯了壓力,讓輔導長來作為基層的、士官兵的"},{"start":495.447,"end":519.646,"text":"心理輔導,不行,部長,我們必須面對這個真相,這個調查報告已經7年了,沒有改善。」好,我快轉,點出問題,下一頁。現在,151變1年,現在大學生1年級未來4年畢業他可以進到軍中去當兵,相關的新府社工畢業的就有819人。"},{"start":521.331,"end":525.344,"text":"可以來善用這些人在他的工作分配的時候來協助輔導長、協助二級、三級的人員下一頁。"},{"start":528.84,"end":536.225,"text":"審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人"},{"start":556.917,"end":562.823,"text":"不夠沒有跟上來,預算只有從100萬增加到170萬。」這個事情,大學現在開始有心理健康假。"},{"start":576.507,"end":589.635,"text":"從吳思瑤2022年質詢的時候只有兩校,現在有43校。教育部跟上來,心理健康價、身心調適價向下延伸,現在高中有42個學校試辦,今年9月要全面試辦。下一頁"},{"start":591.736,"end":604.772,"text":"我也去向人事總處提出質詢,學生有心理健康假,公務人員也正在研議全台灣的公務人員有心理健康假,不是為了放假而放假,是透過心理健康假可以讓我們的輔導機制去追蹤誰請了這個假,他需要什麼輔導。"},{"start":610.462,"end":634.019,"text":"軍中的管理是不同的,我同意,可是我分享了教育部門的經驗,其他公務體系的經驗,我希望可以擾動大家的思維。我今天帶來的就是,心腹需要專業。部長、副局長,我給您三個月的時間,我們再進一步來做探討好嗎?好,謝謝吳思堯委員,相關資料請。好,謝謝主席,謝謝。部長跟政論局這邊,敬嚴你。好,謝謝。"}]}}}}