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\"start\": 448.747, \"end\": 448.867, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 448.867, \"end\": 449.107, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"昌\", \"start\": 449.107, \"end\": 449.247, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 449.247, \"end\": 449.268, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,634 --> 00:00:05,056\n謝謝主席黃昭文,我們請部長,請薛部長部長好,本席也有提出這個兒少性剝削防治條例那其中我提的版本裡面有一點就是剛剛黃委員所提到的這個所謂的在這個強制治療要不要入法雖然你說這個強制治療不見得有效果\n\n2\n00:00:29,190 --> 00:00:44,478\n但是呢我的條款裡面是如果呢他是經判刑有罪那或還起訴處分者經評估還是經過專業的評估因為就像你講的這個有可能有程程度的不同\n\n3\n00:00:45,418 --> 00:00:47,439\n規範,不可承諾,不可承諾,不可承諾,不可承諾,不可承諾,不可承諾,不可承諾,\n\n4\n00:01:02,548 --> 00:01:24,096\n你支持嗎?當然是有可能是可以接受但是所謂的強制治療這個定義就必須要去沒關係我是認為該有這樣子的機制那我也尊重專業那我希望把它入法至於文字可以怎麼來斟酌我覺得這是可以在委員會討論但是這個方向我是請部長要支持\n\n5\n00:01:25,596 --> 00:01:43,446\n這第一個。第二個在我的版本裡面我們現行的條文是持有就會有相關的這個行者那我現在又加了一個如果是用金錢或對價關係取得而持有的更加加重那這個方向部長你支持嗎\n\n6\n00:01:44,086 --> 00:02:01,772\n這我支持因為這涉及到這種金錢的一種所謂的經濟行為的會是主要會是引導引導這種犯罪行為的增加我們常常看到有很多個案有一些青少女或者是青少年或者是兒童就是因為這樣子被誘導的\n\n7\n00:02:03,453 --> 00:02:25,824\n被利誘,他在身心、心理狀況可能還不是很成熟的情況之下,他比較不會分辨,那有可能就受害了。」所以這個部分我希望部長要支持。那我第二件事想跟部長談一個制度是什麼?在上一次凱凱案的時候,事實上我有觀察,部長你知不知道現在全台灣的\n\n8\n00:02:27,364 --> 00:02:51,432\n這個中途家庭或者是寄養家庭的數目字是正在減少當中你知道嗎?對不對?就是因為為什麼?就是因為什麼?為什麼呢?你認為咧?當然就是說願意做從事這一個工作的人也會減掉當然另外當然就是風險也高啦\n\n9\n00:02:51,832 --> 00:03:17,395\n是啊,所以我們如果把風險降低,那就是是不是能夠更系統化、更制度化、更專業化的來支持他們,或是給予相關的輔導嘛。那第二個,我們如何再重建這個中途家庭跟寄養家庭,希望能夠數字可以逐漸的增加,因為這牽涉到什麼?這牽涉到我們如何安置這些需要受保護的孩子。\n\n10\n00:03:18,568 --> 00:03:34,245\n這個部分的話其實是要好好去做思考目前為止我沒有看到衛生福利部對這個有什麼要思考這一個寄養家庭之所以減少這當然有很多的原因其中有一個就是說年齡層的問題\n\n11\n00:03:36,047 --> 00:03:49,906\n以現在的寄養家庭,他比較不願意去收那種很小的小孩子,因為他風險高,寄養家庭其實是年齡的這些…那我們是不是要思考有沒有解決的對策?\n\n12\n00:03:52,164 --> 00:04:10,034\n所以說對於那種很小的小孩子的話目前呢送到保姆的系統也不是這個就是又是另外一個問題我就是想再跟部長討論所以我們現在有很多年紀比較小的年齡層比較小的我們呢是送到保姆端那保姆這一次凱凱恩就是保姆出了問題\n\n13\n00:04:10,834 --> 00:04:39,930\n那我想請教的是,那我們如果送給這些保姆,請他們來安置這些兒童,不管是短暫或是長時間的,除了金錢上的這個給付之外,那我們有沒有對保姆的專業要求?要不要受訓?要不要認證?本來那個保姆就有認證而已。保姆的認證是一般保姆的認證。我說針對這些需要被保護的孩子,被安置的孩子,\n\n14\n00:04:41,363 --> 00:05:08,716\n這個就是我記得之前在質詢的時候我曾經回答過就是全日拖啦如果他這種保姆一般來講的照顧的話都是日拖的那晚上就是回到自己的家裡面去那父母親是可以看得到的所以虐待的情形就會比較少但是你全日拖的話這種家庭基本上已經功能已經失去了\n\n15\n00:05:09,756 --> 00:05:28,274\n家裡的人也不會看得到,所以等於說整個全天候的都在這保姆的家裡面,那這樣子的話他的風險就會特別高,因此這種全日拖的保姆,他必須要有更好的一些訓練,更好的監督。」那我們現在衛生福利部有沒有這樣的機制?應該我們會在\n\n16\n00:05:32,738 --> 00:05:59,798\n現在正在研擬當中嘛對不對就表示之前沒有嘛對啦你們現在就在研擬當中就是表示之前沒有嘛之前沒有的話那我們就是不管是社工人員也好或是地方政府的相關的承辦人員也好他不知道該怎麼辦那又必須要安置這樣的孩子所以他只能選擇他知道的他找得到的有意願的保姆送嘛那至於這個保姆到底\n\n17\n00:06:00,498 --> 00:06:18,952\n到底有沒有夠專業,到底有沒有認知到這個需要受保護安置的孩子的身心狀況,或是他有什麼特殊的狀況,那需要特別的照顧,這個保姆不知道嘛,這個地方政府也不知道嘛,社工也不知道嘛,所以我們如何制度性的去面對這個問題,解決這個問題,我覺得這個是我們衛生福利部要做的。」\n\n18\n00:06:23,975 --> 00:06:47,613\n好不好?那什麼時候你說年齡當中那什麼時候可以讓我們看得到草案?需要多久的時間?現在那個是在那個托育專法裡面要把這個放進來那托育服務法這一個專法會跟那個兒犬法的修正大家一起需要多久的時間目前應該是討論到最後了\n\n19\n00:06:52,368 --> 00:07:11,346\n已經在預告了已經在預告了已經在預告了好那我希望能夠盡速啦那而且呢在現在預告在未來公告執行之前我們現在針對去盤點一下現行有在承接這些安置兒童的這些保姆們我們如何去支持他們輔導他們增加他們的專業資能\n\n20\n00:07:14,429 --> 00:07:29,268\n才能夠好好的保護我們的孩子,那大家才能夠共好啊,而且大家才能夠提供一個相對雙方都安全的環境嘛。」是不是?好不好?部長,拜託,謝謝。好,謝謝何新淳委員發言。接下來請黃國昌委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1634\t5056\t謝謝主席黃昭文,我們請部長,請薛部長部長好,本席也有提出這個兒少性剝削防治條例那其中我提的版本裡面有一點就是剛剛黃委員所提到的這個所謂的在這個強制治療要不要入法雖然你說這個強制治療不見得有效果\n29190\t44478\t但是呢我的條款裡面是如果呢他是經判刑有罪那或還起訴處分者經評估還是經過專業的評估因為就像你講的這個有可能有程程度的不同\n45418\t47439\t規範,不可承諾,不可承諾,不可承諾,不可承諾,不可承諾,不可承諾,不可承諾,\n62548\t84096\t你支持嗎?當然是有可能是可以接受但是所謂的強制治療這個定義就必須要去沒關係我是認為該有這樣子的機制那我也尊重專業那我希望把它入法至於文字可以怎麼來斟酌我覺得這是可以在委員會討論但是這個方向我是請部長要支持\n85596\t103446\t這第一個。第二個在我的版本裡面我們現行的條文是持有就會有相關的這個行者那我現在又加了一個如果是用金錢或對價關係取得而持有的更加加重那這個方向部長你支持嗎\n104086\t121772\t這我支持因為這涉及到這種金錢的一種所謂的經濟行為的會是主要會是引導引導這種犯罪行為的增加我們常常看到有很多個案有一些青少女或者是青少年或者是兒童就是因為這樣子被誘導的\n123453\t145824\t被利誘,他在身心、心理狀況可能還不是很成熟的情況之下,他比較不會分辨,那有可能就受害了。」所以這個部分我希望部長要支持。那我第二件事想跟部長談一個制度是什麼?在上一次凱凱案的時候,事實上我有觀察,部長你知不知道現在全台灣的\n147364\t171432\t這個中途家庭或者是寄養家庭的數目字是正在減少當中你知道嗎?對不對?就是因為為什麼?就是因為什麼?為什麼呢?你認為咧?當然就是說願意做從事這一個工作的人也會減掉當然另外當然就是風險也高啦\n171832\t197395\t是啊,所以我們如果把風險降低,那就是是不是能夠更系統化、更制度化、更專業化的來支持他們,或是給予相關的輔導嘛。那第二個,我們如何再重建這個中途家庭跟寄養家庭,希望能夠數字可以逐漸的增加,因為這牽涉到什麼?這牽涉到我們如何安置這些需要受保護的孩子。\n198568\t214245\t這個部分的話其實是要好好去做思考目前為止我沒有看到衛生福利部對這個有什麼要思考這一個寄養家庭之所以減少這當然有很多的原因其中有一個就是說年齡層的問題\n216047\t229906\t以現在的寄養家庭,他比較不願意去收那種很小的小孩子,因為他風險高,寄養家庭其實是年齡的這些…那我們是不是要思考有沒有解決的對策?\n232164\t250034\t所以說對於那種很小的小孩子的話目前呢送到保姆的系統也不是這個就是又是另外一個問題我就是想再跟部長討論所以我們現在有很多年紀比較小的年齡層比較小的我們呢是送到保姆端那保姆這一次凱凱恩就是保姆出了問題\n250834\t279930\t那我想請教的是,那我們如果送給這些保姆,請他們來安置這些兒童,不管是短暫或是長時間的,除了金錢上的這個給付之外,那我們有沒有對保姆的專業要求?要不要受訓?要不要認證?本來那個保姆就有認證而已。保姆的認證是一般保姆的認證。我說針對這些需要被保護的孩子,被安置的孩子,\n281363\t308716\t這個就是我記得之前在質詢的時候我曾經回答過就是全日拖啦如果他這種保姆一般來講的照顧的話都是日拖的那晚上就是回到自己的家裡面去那父母親是可以看得到的所以虐待的情形就會比較少但是你全日拖的話這種家庭基本上已經功能已經失去了\n309756\t328274\t家裡的人也不會看得到,所以等於說整個全天候的都在這保姆的家裡面,那這樣子的話他的風險就會特別高,因此這種全日拖的保姆,他必須要有更好的一些訓練,更好的監督。」那我們現在衛生福利部有沒有這樣的機制?應該我們會在\n332738\t359798\t現在正在研擬當中嘛 對不對就表示之前沒有嘛對啦 你們現在就在研擬當中就是表示之前沒有嘛之前沒有的話那我們就是不管是社工人員也好或是地方政府的相關的承辦人員也好他不知道該怎麼辦那又必須要安置這樣的孩子所以他只能選擇他知道的他找得到的有意願的保姆送嘛那至於這個保姆到底\n360498\t378952\t到底有沒有夠專業,到底有沒有認知到這個需要受保護安置的孩子的身心狀況,或是他有什麼特殊的狀況,那需要特別的照顧,這個保姆不知道嘛,這個地方政府也不知道嘛,社工也不知道嘛,所以我們如何制度性的去面對這個問題,解決這個問題,我覺得這個是我們衛生福利部要做的。」\n383975\t407613\t好不好?那什麼時候你說年齡當中那什麼時候可以讓我們看得到草案?需要多久的時間?現在那個是在那個托育專法裡面要把這個放進來那托育服務法這一個專法會跟那個兒犬法的修正大家一起需要多久的時間目前應該是討論到最後了\n412368\t431346\t已經在預告了已經在預告了已經在預告了好那我希望能夠盡速啦那而且呢在現在預告在未來公告執行之前我們現在針對去盤點一下現行有在承接這些安置兒童的這些保姆們我們如何去支持他們輔導他們增加他們的專業資能\n434429\t449268\t才能夠好好的保護我們的孩子,那大家才能夠共好啊,而且大家才能夠提供一個相對雙方都安全的環境嘛。」是不是?好不好?部長,拜託,謝謝。好,謝謝何新淳委員發言。接下來請黃國昌委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席黃昭文,我們請部長,請薛部長部長好,本席也有提出這個兒少性剝削防治條例那其中我提的版本裡面有一點就是剛剛黃委員所提到的這個所謂的在這個強制治療要不要入法雖然你說這個強制治療不見得有效果\n但是呢我的條款裡面是如果呢他是經判刑有罪那或還起訴處分者經評估還是經過專業的評估因為就像你講的這個有可能有程程度的不同\n規範,不可承諾,不可承諾,不可承諾,不可承諾,不可承諾,不可承諾,不可承諾,\n你支持嗎?當然是有可能是可以接受但是所謂的強制治療這個定義就必須要去沒關係我是認為該有這樣子的機制那我也尊重專業那我希望把它入法至於文字可以怎麼來斟酌我覺得這是可以在委員會討論但是這個方向我是請部長要支持\n這第一個。第二個在我的版本裡面我們現行的條文是持有就會有相關的這個行者那我現在又加了一個如果是用金錢或對價關係取得而持有的更加加重那這個方向部長你支持嗎\n這我支持因為這涉及到這種金錢的一種所謂的經濟行為的會是主要會是引導引導這種犯罪行為的增加我們常常看到有很多個案有一些青少女或者是青少年或者是兒童就是因為這樣子被誘導的\n被利誘,他在身心、心理狀況可能還不是很成熟的情況之下,他比較不會分辨,那有可能就受害了。」所以這個部分我希望部長要支持。那我第二件事想跟部長談一個制度是什麼?在上一次凱凱案的時候,事實上我有觀察,部長你知不知道現在全台灣的\n這個中途家庭或者是寄養家庭的數目字是正在減少當中你知道嗎?對不對?就是因為為什麼?就是因為什麼?為什麼呢?你認為咧?當然就是說願意做從事這一個工作的人也會減掉當然另外當然就是風險也高啦\n是啊,所以我們如果把風險降低,那就是是不是能夠更系統化、更制度化、更專業化的來支持他們,或是給予相關的輔導嘛。那第二個,我們如何再重建這個中途家庭跟寄養家庭,希望能夠數字可以逐漸的增加,因為這牽涉到什麼?這牽涉到我們如何安置這些需要受保護的孩子。\n這個部分的話其實是要好好去做思考目前為止我沒有看到衛生福利部對這個有什麼要思考這一個寄養家庭之所以減少這當然有很多的原因其中有一個就是說年齡層的問題\n以現在的寄養家庭,他比較不願意去收那種很小的小孩子,因為他風險高,寄養家庭其實是年齡的這些…那我們是不是要思考有沒有解決的對策?\n所以說對於那種很小的小孩子的話目前呢送到保姆的系統也不是這個就是又是另外一個問題我就是想再跟部長討論所以我們現在有很多年紀比較小的年齡層比較小的我們呢是送到保姆端那保姆這一次凱凱恩就是保姆出了問題\n那我想請教的是,那我們如果送給這些保姆,請他們來安置這些兒童,不管是短暫或是長時間的,除了金錢上的這個給付之外,那我們有沒有對保姆的專業要求?要不要受訓?要不要認證?本來那個保姆就有認證而已。保姆的認證是一般保姆的認證。我說針對這些需要被保護的孩子,被安置的孩子,\n這個就是我記得之前在質詢的時候我曾經回答過就是全日拖啦如果他這種保姆一般來講的照顧的話都是日拖的那晚上就是回到自己的家裡面去那父母親是可以看得到的所以虐待的情形就會比較少但是你全日拖的話這種家庭基本上已經功能已經失去了\n家裡的人也不會看得到,所以等於說整個全天候的都在這保姆的家裡面,那這樣子的話他的風險就會特別高,因此這種全日拖的保姆,他必須要有更好的一些訓練,更好的監督。」那我們現在衛生福利部有沒有這樣的機制?應該我們會在\n現在正在研擬當中嘛 對不對就表示之前沒有嘛對啦 你們現在就在研擬當中就是表示之前沒有嘛之前沒有的話那我們就是不管是社工人員也好或是地方政府的相關的承辦人員也好他不知道該怎麼辦那又必須要安置這樣的孩子所以他只能選擇他知道的他找得到的有意願的保姆送嘛那至於這個保姆到底\n到底有沒有夠專業,到底有沒有認知到這個需要受保護安置的孩子的身心狀況,或是他有什麼特殊的狀況,那需要特別的照顧,這個保姆不知道嘛,這個地方政府也不知道嘛,社工也不知道嘛,所以我們如何制度性的去面對這個問題,解決這個問題,我覺得這個是我們衛生福利部要做的。」\n好不好?那什麼時候你說年齡當中那什麼時候可以讓我們看得到草案?需要多久的時間?現在那個是在那個托育專法裡面要把這個放進來那托育服務法這一個專法會跟那個兒犬法的修正大家一起需要多久的時間目前應該是討論到最後了\n已經在預告了已經在預告了已經在預告了好那我希望能夠盡速啦那而且呢在現在預告在未來公告執行之前我們現在針對去盤點一下現行有在承接這些安置兒童的這些保姆們我們如何去支持他們輔導他們增加他們的專業資能\n才能夠好好的保護我們的孩子,那大家才能夠共好啊,而且大家才能夠提供一個相對雙方都安全的環境嘛。」是不是?好不好?部長,拜託,謝謝。好,謝謝何新淳委員發言。接下來請黃國昌委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.634 --> 00:05.056\n謝謝主席黃昭文,我們請部長,請薛部長部長好,本席也有提出這個兒少性剝削防治條例那其中我提的版本裡面有一點就是剛剛黃委員所提到的這個所謂的在這個強制治療要不要入法雖然你說這個強制治療不見得有效果\n\n00:29.190 --> 00:44.478\n但是呢我的條款裡面是如果呢他是經判刑有罪那或還起訴處分者經評估還是經過專業的評估因為就像你講的這個有可能有程程度的不同\n\n00:45.418 --> 00:47.439\n規範,不可承諾,不可承諾,不可承諾,不可承諾,不可承諾,不可承諾,不可承諾,\n\n01:02.548 --> 01:24.096\n你支持嗎?當然是有可能是可以接受但是所謂的強制治療這個定義就必須要去沒關係我是認為該有這樣子的機制那我也尊重專業那我希望把它入法至於文字可以怎麼來斟酌我覺得這是可以在委員會討論但是這個方向我是請部長要支持\n\n01:25.596 --> 01:43.446\n這第一個。第二個在我的版本裡面我們現行的條文是持有就會有相關的這個行者那我現在又加了一個如果是用金錢或對價關係取得而持有的更加加重那這個方向部長你支持嗎\n\n01:44.086 --> 02:01.772\n這我支持因為這涉及到這種金錢的一種所謂的經濟行為的會是主要會是引導引導這種犯罪行為的增加我們常常看到有很多個案有一些青少女或者是青少年或者是兒童就是因為這樣子被誘導的\n\n02:03.453 --> 02:25.824\n被利誘,他在身心、心理狀況可能還不是很成熟的情況之下,他比較不會分辨,那有可能就受害了。」所以這個部分我希望部長要支持。那我第二件事想跟部長談一個制度是什麼?在上一次凱凱案的時候,事實上我有觀察,部長你知不知道現在全台灣的\n\n02:27.364 --> 02:51.432\n這個中途家庭或者是寄養家庭的數目字是正在減少當中你知道嗎?對不對?就是因為為什麼?就是因為什麼?為什麼呢?你認為咧?當然就是說願意做從事這一個工作的人也會減掉當然另外當然就是風險也高啦\n\n02:51.832 --> 03:17.395\n是啊,所以我們如果把風險降低,那就是是不是能夠更系統化、更制度化、更專業化的來支持他們,或是給予相關的輔導嘛。那第二個,我們如何再重建這個中途家庭跟寄養家庭,希望能夠數字可以逐漸的增加,因為這牽涉到什麼?這牽涉到我們如何安置這些需要受保護的孩子。\n\n03:18.568 --> 03:34.245\n這個部分的話其實是要好好去做思考目前為止我沒有看到衛生福利部對這個有什麼要思考這一個寄養家庭之所以減少這當然有很多的原因其中有一個就是說年齡層的問題\n\n03:36.047 --> 03:49.906\n以現在的寄養家庭,他比較不願意去收那種很小的小孩子,因為他風險高,寄養家庭其實是年齡的這些…那我們是不是要思考有沒有解決的對策?\n\n03:52.164 --> 04:10.034\n所以說對於那種很小的小孩子的話目前呢送到保姆的系統也不是這個就是又是另外一個問題我就是想再跟部長討論所以我們現在有很多年紀比較小的年齡層比較小的我們呢是送到保姆端那保姆這一次凱凱恩就是保姆出了問題\n\n04:10.834 --> 04:39.930\n那我想請教的是,那我們如果送給這些保姆,請他們來安置這些兒童,不管是短暫或是長時間的,除了金錢上的這個給付之外,那我們有沒有對保姆的專業要求?要不要受訓?要不要認證?本來那個保姆就有認證而已。保姆的認證是一般保姆的認證。我說針對這些需要被保護的孩子,被安置的孩子,\n\n04:41.363 --> 05:08.716\n這個就是我記得之前在質詢的時候我曾經回答過就是全日拖啦如果他這種保姆一般來講的照顧的話都是日拖的那晚上就是回到自己的家裡面去那父母親是可以看得到的所以虐待的情形就會比較少但是你全日拖的話這種家庭基本上已經功能已經失去了\n\n05:09.756 --> 05:28.274\n家裡的人也不會看得到,所以等於說整個全天候的都在這保姆的家裡面,那這樣子的話他的風險就會特別高,因此這種全日拖的保姆,他必須要有更好的一些訓練,更好的監督。」那我們現在衛生福利部有沒有這樣的機制?應該我們會在\n\n05:32.738 --> 05:59.798\n現在正在研擬當中嘛對不對就表示之前沒有嘛對啦你們現在就在研擬當中就是表示之前沒有嘛之前沒有的話那我們就是不管是社工人員也好或是地方政府的相關的承辦人員也好他不知道該怎麼辦那又必須要安置這樣的孩子所以他只能選擇他知道的他找得到的有意願的保姆送嘛那至於這個保姆到底\n\n06:00.498 --> 06:18.952\n到底有沒有夠專業,到底有沒有認知到這個需要受保護安置的孩子的身心狀況,或是他有什麼特殊的狀況,那需要特別的照顧,這個保姆不知道嘛,這個地方政府也不知道嘛,社工也不知道嘛,所以我們如何制度性的去面對這個問題,解決這個問題,我覺得這個是我們衛生福利部要做的。」\n\n06:23.975 --> 06:47.613\n好不好?那什麼時候你說年齡當中那什麼時候可以讓我們看得到草案?需要多久的時間?現在那個是在那個托育專法裡面要把這個放進來那托育服務法這一個專法會跟那個兒犬法的修正大家一起需要多久的時間目前應該是討論到最後了\n\n06:52.368 --> 07:11.346\n已經在預告了已經在預告了已經在預告了好那我希望能夠盡速啦那而且呢在現在預告在未來公告執行之前我們現在針對去盤點一下現行有在承接這些安置兒童的這些保姆們我們如何去支持他們輔導他們增加他們的專業資能\n\n07:14.429 --> 07:29.268\n才能夠好好的保護我們的孩子,那大家才能夠共好啊,而且大家才能夠提供一個相對雙方都安全的環境嘛。」是不是?好不好?部長,拜託,謝謝。好,謝謝何新淳委員發言。接下來請黃國昌委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.634,"end":5.056,"text":"謝謝主席黃昭文,我們請部長,請薛部長部長好,本席也有提出這個兒少性剝削防治條例那其中我提的版本裡面有一點就是剛剛黃委員所提到的這個所謂的在這個強制治療要不要入法雖然你說這個強制治療不見得有效果"},{"start":29.19,"end":44.478,"text":"但是呢我的條款裡面是如果呢他是經判刑有罪那或還起訴處分者經評估還是經過專業的評估因為就像你講的這個有可能有程程度的不同"},{"start":45.418,"end":47.439,"text":"規範,不可承諾,不可承諾,不可承諾,不可承諾,不可承諾,不可承諾,不可承諾,"},{"start":62.548,"end":84.096,"text":"你支持嗎?當然是有可能是可以接受但是所謂的強制治療這個定義就必須要去沒關係我是認為該有這樣子的機制那我也尊重專業那我希望把它入法至於文字可以怎麼來斟酌我覺得這是可以在委員會討論但是這個方向我是請部長要支持"},{"start":85.596,"end":103.446,"text":"這第一個。第二個在我的版本裡面我們現行的條文是持有就會有相關的這個行者那我現在又加了一個如果是用金錢或對價關係取得而持有的更加加重那這個方向部長你支持嗎"},{"start":104.086,"end":121.772,"text":"這我支持因為這涉及到這種金錢的一種所謂的經濟行為的會是主要會是引導引導這種犯罪行為的增加我們常常看到有很多個案有一些青少女或者是青少年或者是兒童就是因為這樣子被誘導的"},{"start":123.453,"end":145.824,"text":"被利誘,他在身心、心理狀況可能還不是很成熟的情況之下,他比較不會分辨,那有可能就受害了。」所以這個部分我希望部長要支持。那我第二件事想跟部長談一個制度是什麼?在上一次凱凱案的時候,事實上我有觀察,部長你知不知道現在全台灣的"},{"start":147.364,"end":171.432,"text":"這個中途家庭或者是寄養家庭的數目字是正在減少當中你知道嗎?對不對?就是因為為什麼?就是因為什麼?為什麼呢?你認為咧?當然就是說願意做從事這一個工作的人也會減掉當然另外當然就是風險也高啦"},{"start":171.832,"end":197.395,"text":"是啊,所以我們如果把風險降低,那就是是不是能夠更系統化、更制度化、更專業化的來支持他們,或是給予相關的輔導嘛。那第二個,我們如何再重建這個中途家庭跟寄養家庭,希望能夠數字可以逐漸的增加,因為這牽涉到什麼?這牽涉到我們如何安置這些需要受保護的孩子。"},{"start":198.568,"end":214.245,"text":"這個部分的話其實是要好好去做思考目前為止我沒有看到衛生福利部對這個有什麼要思考這一個寄養家庭之所以減少這當然有很多的原因其中有一個就是說年齡層的問題"},{"start":216.047,"end":229.906,"text":"以現在的寄養家庭,他比較不願意去收那種很小的小孩子,因為他風險高,寄養家庭其實是年齡的這些…那我們是不是要思考有沒有解決的對策?"},{"start":232.164,"end":250.034,"text":"所以說對於那種很小的小孩子的話目前呢送到保姆的系統也不是這個就是又是另外一個問題我就是想再跟部長討論所以我們現在有很多年紀比較小的年齡層比較小的我們呢是送到保姆端那保姆這一次凱凱恩就是保姆出了問題"},{"start":250.834,"end":279.93,"text":"那我想請教的是,那我們如果送給這些保姆,請他們來安置這些兒童,不管是短暫或是長時間的,除了金錢上的這個給付之外,那我們有沒有對保姆的專業要求?要不要受訓?要不要認證?本來那個保姆就有認證而已。保姆的認證是一般保姆的認證。我說針對這些需要被保護的孩子,被安置的孩子,"},{"start":281.363,"end":308.716,"text":"這個就是我記得之前在質詢的時候我曾經回答過就是全日拖啦如果他這種保姆一般來講的照顧的話都是日拖的那晚上就是回到自己的家裡面去那父母親是可以看得到的所以虐待的情形就會比較少但是你全日拖的話這種家庭基本上已經功能已經失去了"},{"start":309.756,"end":328.274,"text":"家裡的人也不會看得到,所以等於說整個全天候的都在這保姆的家裡面,那這樣子的話他的風險就會特別高,因此這種全日拖的保姆,他必須要有更好的一些訓練,更好的監督。」那我們現在衛生福利部有沒有這樣的機制?應該我們會在"},{"start":332.738,"end":359.798,"text":"現在正在研擬當中嘛 對不對就表示之前沒有嘛對啦 你們現在就在研擬當中就是表示之前沒有嘛之前沒有的話那我們就是不管是社工人員也好或是地方政府的相關的承辦人員也好他不知道該怎麼辦那又必須要安置這樣的孩子所以他只能選擇他知道的他找得到的有意願的保姆送嘛那至於這個保姆到底"},{"start":360.498,"end":378.952,"text":"到底有沒有夠專業,到底有沒有認知到這個需要受保護安置的孩子的身心狀況,或是他有什麼特殊的狀況,那需要特別的照顧,這個保姆不知道嘛,這個地方政府也不知道嘛,社工也不知道嘛,所以我們如何制度性的去面對這個問題,解決這個問題,我覺得這個是我們衛生福利部要做的。」"},{"start":383.975,"end":407.613,"text":"好不好?那什麼時候你說年齡當中那什麼時候可以讓我們看得到草案?需要多久的時間?現在那個是在那個托育專法裡面要把這個放進來那托育服務法這一個專法會跟那個兒犬法的修正大家一起需要多久的時間目前應該是討論到最後了"},{"start":412.368,"end":431.346,"text":"已經在預告了已經在預告了已經在預告了好那我希望能夠盡速啦那而且呢在現在預告在未來公告執行之前我們現在針對去盤點一下現行有在承接這些安置兒童的這些保姆們我們如何去支持他們輔導他們增加他們的專業資能"},{"start":434.429,"end":449.268,"text":"才能夠好好的保護我們的孩子,那大家才能夠共好啊,而且大家才能夠提供一個相對雙方都安全的環境嘛。」是不是?好不好?部長,拜託,謝謝。好,謝謝何新淳委員發言。接下來請黃國昌委員"}]}}}}