{"id":151690,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151690","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/534e6c42fa7aedb316d52f80071d0c425a1f541440a910baeadb1108e4b84432d1fda4089bab4e905ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"范雲","委員發言時間":"12:11:28 - 12:21:47","影片長度":"00:10:19","會議時間":"2024-04-24T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽、外交部、交通部、衛生福利部、農業部、海洋委員會列席就「我國周遭海域含氚廢水監控與因應」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算有關核能安全委員會主管預算(公務預算)解凍案4案。\n(4月24日及25日二天一次會)）","date":"2024-04-24","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-9"},"duration":619,"end_time":"2024-04-24T12:21:47+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-24T12:11:28+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":879,"blocks":[["范委員雲：（12時11分）謝謝林宜瑾召委，有請陳主委。"],["主席：有請陳主委。"],["陳主任委員東陽：范委員好。"],["范委員雲：主委午安。今天好幾位國民黨委員都問到延役的問題，其實之前本席也問過您，現在要再請您解答，因為您一直說尊重大院。請問一下，像核廢料的安全，你們是不是也有相關的監管責任？"],["陳主任委員東陽：是的。"],["范委員雲：蘭嶼的核廢料遷出案，你們有沒有找到放置地點？"],["陳主任委員東陽：沒有。"],["范委員雲：這個部分還沒有找到放置地點，剛才說的新北，那個部分也沒有解決，那麼核廢料的安全或延役，代價該由誰承擔？要蘭嶼人繼續承擔嗎？因為找不到可以放置的地方。"],["陳主任委員東陽：這是核廢料的困境。"],["范委員雲：對。主委，你要有道德勇氣，把該說清楚的問題說清楚，代價由誰承擔？你們要說清楚，好不好？"],["陳主任委員東陽：是的。"],["范委員雲：不能一直讓蘭嶼的原住民承擔吧？主委，這樣符合正義嗎？有還是沒有？如果沒有，為什麼沒有辦法遷出？因為沒有人願意嘛！所以我們就繼續傷害蘭嶼人、傷害原住民，這個部分請主委……"],["陳主任委員東陽：不過范委員，我們現在對蘭嶼低放貯存庫也做了很嚴密的監控。"],["范委員雲：可是的確有答應蘭嶼人要遷出，沒有錯吧？"],["陳主任委員東陽：對。"],["范委員雲：答應什麼時間點之前要遷出？"],["陳主任委員東陽：我們再去了解一下。"],["范委員雲：好，請你去了解一下，如果一直沒有找到其他的放置地點，這個承諾就注定要跳票了。本席今天也要再追問一個曾經問過的題目，因為有人向本席陳情。你們曾經把量子力學三巨頭的照片放在臉書上，你應該知道吧？主委認得嘛！"],["陳主任委員東陽：了解。"],["范委員雲：右邊那個薛丁格很有名嘛！大家都知道薛丁格的故事。主委知道左邊這三位女性是誰嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：中間是居禮夫人。"],["范委員雲：中間是居禮夫人嗎？居禮夫人會和他們三個人站在一起？有沒有弄錯？"],["陳主任委員東陽：請綜規組組長答復。"],["范委員雲：您不知道嘛？是不是？"],["李組長綺思：那是三位科學家的太太和媽媽。"],["范委員雲：對，她不是居禮夫人，如果是居禮夫人，本席會很高興。本席要說一件誇張的事情，你們的臉書小編放過這張圖，當時完全沒有解釋左邊這三位是誰，連他們是家屬、夫人都沒有說明，可是你們在原能會的性平小組報告中，居然把這張圖說成是在傳達性別對科學發展之影響力，無論是科學家本人或是科學家背後之女性、支持者，均同等重要。","意思就是說，這三位科學家是男的，他們的老婆是女的，這個圖是在傳達性別對科學發展之影響力。難道科學家都沒有女的，全部都是男性，女性所謂的影響力就是當他們的老婆和背後的女性支持者，是這樣嗎？這是你們的性別平等報告。"],["李組長綺思：不是！跟委員報告，如果委員在網路上看這張照片的話，大部分的照片都是把三位女性的部分裁掉……"],["范委員雲：所以你們把他們放進去，已經對女性很好了？主委還以為那是居禮夫人！"],["李組長綺思：因為我們要注重性平，所以後面這些相關的人物，我們都把他們找出來。"],["范委員雲：你們把他們的照片放上去，當然是比裁掉加分，但是你們的小編完全沒有說明旁邊這三位是誰，放了卻不說明那是誰。更誇張的是，行政院在推行性別主流化，各部會都有性別小組，你們性別小組的報告要凸顯科學家和性別的議題，就是拿這張圖告訴大家何謂性別平等，除了科學家本人，還不敢指明男性科學家，還有背後的女性支持者，你們是用這點來說明性別和科技，難道你們找不到任何一個女性科學家，可以告訴大家性別和科學發展的關連嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：這個部分我們會再……"],["范委員雲：本席剛才唸的都是你們的會議紀錄。"],["陳主任委員東陽：我們會看一下怎麼修改。"],["范委員雲：這是你們的性平小組會議紀錄，委員王蘋詢問這件事，你們竟然是這樣回答，報告還這樣寫。本席為什麼要關心你們？時間到了，都沒有時間問了。因為核安會、原能會之前出過很有名的性騷案，新主委知道嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：知道，但細節不是很清楚。"],["范委員雲：你可以再去了解一下，林宜瑾委員也有看到，而且本席和林宜瑾委員還要求行政院來報告，因為你們的性騷相關規定沒有處理到如果主委本人是性別歧視或者性騷擾行為人的話該怎麼處理。原能會的性別意識可能真的有待加強，之前本席就請你們加強性騷擾防制，但現在本席發現，你們不是只有性騷擾防制需要加強，性別平等意識也是一樣，從你們性平小組給的報告就可以看到，專業委員已經問了，你們還不知道哪裡有問題，真的非常需要加強。針對如何加強你們內部的性別平等意識，一個月內可不可以給本席一份檢討報告？"],["陳主任委員東陽：好的，沒有問題。"],["范委員雲：本席會監督喔！最後，也要和主委說一下，你們一級主管的女性比例遠低於你們的女性成員比。我們這邊有列出來，核安會的女性主管只有21%，國原院的女性主管是20%，可是你們的女性員工是33%，占了三分之一。","然後還有更誇張的事情，你們的一級主管比例，行政院性平處管考的各單位比例都是上升，你們的一級主管女性人數卻逐年下降，從75%降到38%、21%。你們的母數是19位主管，可是女性的比例越來越少，為什麼呢？好不容易做到女性一級主管，為什麼百分比卻越降越低，甚至低於母數的比例？主委，你有沒有發現這件事情？"],["陳主任委員東陽：有的。其實我們還有一位副組長，就是副處長的層級，她就是女性，我不曉得有沒有算在這裡面。我們有很嚴謹的升等制度，因為最近剛辦過升等，我們將來會注意這個部分。"],["范委員雲：您知不知道行政院性別平等處在管考政府所有的委員會？"],["陳主任委員東陽：是的。"],["范委員雲：75%的委員會都達標，而且是高標40%，但是核安會沒有達標，你知道嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：我知道。我們會繼續努力，也會想辦法改善。"],["范委員雲：好，至少就一級主管的部分。你有沒有聽過西點原則？沒有嗎？向您報告一下，西點原則和CEDAW相關，就是如果你達不到30%、40%的比例，至少也要達到消極的目標，就是不可低於原始母數的性別比，例如你們原始的母數只有10%的女性，那理監事的女性比例就不要低於10%，好不好？","你們現在的母數有百分之三十幾是女性，所以你們的女性主管人數，我們先不要說行政院性別平等處管考的，各委員會都有做到的40%，你們至少不要低於母數比，好不好？請問主委，您是不是會續任呢？"],["陳主任委員東陽：不清楚。"],["范委員雲：還不清楚啊！好。如果您續任的話，本席希望你們的女性主管比例，至少要有一個逐步調升的計畫，好嗎？不要像本席剛才說的，從之前的75%掉到現在的百分二十幾，如果沒有續任的話，這件事也應該列入交接清單。好不好？"],["陳主任委員東陽：了解。"],["范委員雲：當然，本席祝福您續任啦！好不好？"],["陳主任委員東陽：謝謝。"],["范委員雲：這部分可不可以也給本席辦公室一份報告？因為去年在修定核安會組織法的時候，你們的前劉副主委有做過承諾。他還在嗎？不在？"],["陳主任委員東陽：他屆齡退休了。"],["范委員雲：本席當時說組織法要放三分之一性別比，他告訴本席，行政院的目標、對他們的要求是40%，所以我們是以40%為目標，這部分不需要定在法條中，希望本席支持。但顯然你們是應付委員嘛！只是口頭說一說，之後沒有任何作為，是不是？"],["陳主任委員東陽：我不清楚劉副主委那時候說了什麼。"],["范委員雲：你不清楚？好，為了避免你們應付委員，請給本席一份報告，讓本席可以繼續追蹤，好嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：了解。"],["范委員雲：多久可以給本席一份報告？如何逐步提升女性主管的比例，因為如果我們想要有女主委，她也要有歷練的過程嘛！對不對？"],["陳主任委員東陽：好，一個月。"],["范委員雲：好，一個月。謝謝主委。"],["主席：謝謝范雲委員。接下來請張委員嘉郡發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":308,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-9","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","柯志恩","萬美玲","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","羅廷瑋","張雅琳","葉元之","陳培瑜","林倩綺","吳沛憶","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","范雲","張嘉郡","吳春城"],"page_start":251,"meetingDate":["2024-04-24"],"gazette_id":"1133301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133301_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽、外交部、交通部、衛生福利部、農業部、海洋委員會\n列席就「我國周遭海域含氚廢水監控與因應」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查 113年度中央\n政府總預算有關核能安全委員會主管預算（公務預算）解凍案4案","agenda_id":"1133301_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"151690","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151690","tool":"pyannote","id":"151690-pyannote"},"job_id":"6NN1BVKI1pbKMekJ","queued_at":"2024-05-31 18:16:16","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 18:17:03","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151690"},{"time":"2024-05-31 18:17:04","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/534e6c42fa7aedb316d52f80071d0c425a1f541440a910ba0ea7fa9c781b9e757c45cb4d80bcee6c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-05-31 18:17:33","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-05-31 18:17:35","msg":"running pyannote"},{"time":"2024-05-31 18:17:45","msg":"status: 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00:00:31,753\n范委員主委午安今天好幾位國民黨委員都問到那個研議的問題我想我之前其實問過您想再請您解答啦因為您一直說尊重大院的請問一下那個核廢料的安全是不是也是你們有相關的監管責任是的對那蘭嶼的這個遷出就是說到底找到放置的地點了沒有\n\n3\n00:00:38,803 --> 00:00:49,496\n沒有沒有那都沒有的話然後剛剛講新北的這個問題都沒解決那這個核廢料的這個安全就是說研議的話代價是誰付啊要蘭嶼人繼續承擔嗎都找不到可以放置的地方\n\n4\n00:00:57,304 --> 00:01:10,416\n就是核廢料的困境那主委你要有道德勇氣該說清楚的問題機會誰承擔要講清楚好不好不能讓一直讓我們原住民就是藍綠人承擔吧這樣有正義嗎主委這樣有正義嗎有還是沒有沒有那為什麼沒有辦法簽署\n\n5\n00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:42,656\n沒有人願意放嘛所以我們是繼續在傷害蘭嶼人傷害原住民好不好就是說這個部分請主委不過那個范委員我們現在對蘭嶼地方儲存庫有做很嚴密的我知道你們做了研議了可是有答應蘭嶼人這件事情沒有錯吧答應是什麼時候之前要簽署\n\n6\n00:01:45,802 --> 00:01:47,603\n有人跟我澄清\n\n7\n00:02:08,139 --> 00:02:18,148\n你們曾經放過這三個量子力學三巨頭在你們的臉書上應該知道吧?主委認得嗎?\n\n8\n00:02:18,148 --> 00:02:28,016\n右邊那個薛丁格很有名嘛那個薛丁格的故事大家都知道那主委知道左邊那三位女性是誰嗎?\n\n9\n00:02:30,964 --> 00:02:47,123\n是居里夫人這三位的中間中間是居里夫人嗎你把中間居里夫人會跟他們三個站在一起這有沒有弄錯好來我請那個我們中規組組長就您不知道嘛\n\n10\n00:02:49,290 --> 00:03:00,980\n跟委員報告那是那三個科學家的太太跟媽媽所以不是居里夫人如果是居里夫人那我就要高興了我要講的事情是誇張的是你們的臉書小編放過這張圖當時完全沒有解釋左邊三位是誰連是人家的夫人什麼家屬都沒有講\n\n11\n00:03:11,269 --> 00:03:40,569\n可是你們居然在跟你們的原能會的性評小組的報告裡面把這張圖跟小編臉書說成說這張圖是在傳達性別對科學發展之影響力無論是科學家本人或是科學家背後之女性支持者均同等重要意思就是說科學家三個是男的然後他們的老婆是女的這個圖叫做傳達性別對科學發展之影響力\n\n12\n00:03:42,563 --> 00:04:03,968\n所以你們的科學家沒有女的都是男的所以女性的影響力就是當他們的老婆跟背後的女性支持者是這樣嗎?這是你們的性別平等的報告欸不是這跟委員報告一下如果委員從網路上看這張照片的話大部分的照片都把三位女性全部cut掉\n\n13\n00:04:04,588 --> 00:04:24,135\n所以你們放進去已經對女性很好了主委還以為上面是居里夫人呢因為我們要注重性品所以這些後面相關的人物你要放喔筆切掉這當然是有加分啦可是把這張的而且你們你們的小編完全沒有說這旁邊三個是誰放了卻不說人家是誰\n\n14\n00:04:25,475 --> 00:04:54,341\n但是更誇張的是當你們性別小組我們行政院主流化各部會都有性別小組就是說你們給人家的報告是要講科學家跟性別的時候拿這張圖告訴大家性別平等就是科學家本人還沒講男性科學家背後是女性支持者就是說是用這個來講性別跟科技你們都找不到任何一個女性科學家來告訴大家性別跟科學發展\n\n15\n00:04:55,899 --> 00:05:22,099\n這個部分我們會來再這是你們的會議記錄我剛唸的東西都是你們會議記錄你們性別小組的會議記錄就是有委員王平詢問這件事然後你們的人家已經問了你還可以答成這樣然後還在這個報告裡就這樣所以呢為什麼要關心你們你看時間沒有了都沒有時間問了因為原能會之前出過很有名的性騷案新主委知道嗎\n\n16\n00:05:25,808 --> 00:05:45,763\n內部細節不是很清楚你可以再去了解一下我們在這邊林盈瑾委員都有看到我跟林盈瑾委員還要求行政院要報告因為你們的性騷擾的相關規定沒有處理主委本人如果是性別歧視或者是性騷擾的行為人的話怎麼處理所以你們整個園農會性別意識可能真的有待加強\n\n17\n00:05:49,606 --> 00:06:11,148\n現在呢我之前預算都有請你們加強性騷擾防治我現在發現你們不是只有性騷擾防治性別平等意識從你們的性平小組你們給出的報告人家已經專業委員問了還不知道哪裡的問題喔真的非常的值得加強針對如何加強你們內部的性別平等意識可不可以一個月給我一個檢討報告好的\n\n18\n00:06:12,609 --> 00:06:14,110\n一級主管的女性遠低於女性成員比核安會女性主管21%國園會女性主管20%員工33%女性1%\n\n19\n00:06:38,640 --> 00:07:06,978\n更誇張的事情你們的一級主管人家別的被行政院性評處管考的都是生喔你們的一級主管人數一年降下來就是75%降到38%降到21%你們的母數是19個主管可以越降越少耶為什麼呢好不容易做到女性一級主管的他們為什麼的百分比是越降越低低於他現在的\n\n20\n00:07:07,952 --> 00:07:35,668\n母數的比例啊主委你有沒有發現這件事情有有有有那個我跟委員報告那個我們最近其實還有一個副組長就是副處長的層級那麼其實他就是女性那麼我不曉得有沒有算在這裡面那麼其實我們在升等的時候其實有很嚴謹的這個制度啦因為我們最近剛搬過升等\n\n21\n00:07:36,408 --> 00:07:55,898\n那麼我們會將來會來註意來註意喔那您知不知道行政院性別平等處在管考政府所有的委員會那有75%的委員會都達標了而且那個是高標40%喔那我們的核安會沒有達標你知道嗎\n\n22\n00:07:57,619 --> 00:08:02,766\n清楚我知道這個是大概我們會繼續來努力會繼續來努力至少就一級主管那如果你有聽過西點原則你有沒有聽過\n\n23\n00:08:12,418 --> 00:08:37,355\n沒有齁那跟您報告一下西點原則是CEDAW相關的部分就是說如果你達不到百分之三十、四十的時候至少要消極的不可低於原始的母數的性別比就是你原始的母數比如說只有百分之十的女性那你禮監事就不要低於百分之十好不好那你現在的母數有百分之三十幾那你的主管人數我們先不要講那個\n\n24\n00:08:38,275 --> 00:08:43,762\n行政院管考的40%性別評審處的各委員會你至少不要地域的母數比好不好那請問主委您是不是會續任呢?\n\n25\n00:08:48,345 --> 00:08:49,085\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算​​​解凍案\n\n26\n00:09:12,474 --> 00:09:26,601\n當然我是祝福您續任好不好那這個可不可以給我辦公室一個報告因為呢我去年在修應該是去年嗎核安會的組織法的時候你們的前劉副主委他還在嗎\n\n27\n00:09:28,443 --> 00:09:48,744\n他退休了我當時說組織法要放三分之一性別比的時候他告訴我說行政院的目標對他們的要求是40%所以我們以40%為目標所以不需要定在那裡叫我支持所以呢顯然就是說你們是應付委員嘛講一講之後都沒有任何的做法是不是\n\n28\n00:09:49,891 --> 00:10:13,377\n我不清楚劉副主委怎麼說的那為了避免你們應付委員給我一個報告讓我可以繼續追蹤好嗎那這多久內可以給我一個報告這個如何逐步提升女性主管的比例因為我們如果要有女主委也要有歷練的過程嘛對不對好我們一個月好謝謝那個主委\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3735\t3996\t有請陳竺偉\n13724\t31753\t范委員主委午安今天好幾位國民黨委員都問到那個研議的問題我想我之前其實問過您想再請您解答啦因為您一直說尊重大院的請問一下那個核廢料的安全是不是也是你們有相關的監管責任是的對那蘭嶼的這個遷出就是說到底找到放置的地點了沒有\n38803\t49496\t沒有沒有那都沒有的話然後剛剛講新北的這個問題都沒解決那這個核廢料的這個安全就是說研議的話代價是誰付啊要蘭嶼人繼續承擔嗎都找不到可以放置的地方\n57304\t70416\t就是核廢料的困境那主委你要有道德勇氣該說清楚的問題機會誰承擔要講清楚好不好不能讓一直讓我們原住民就是藍綠人承擔吧這樣有正義嗎主委這樣有正義嗎有還是沒有沒有那為什麼沒有辦法簽署\n81360\t102656\t沒有人願意放嘛所以我們是繼續在傷害蘭嶼人傷害原住民好不好就是說這個部分請主委不過那個范委員我們現在對蘭嶼地方儲存庫有做很嚴密的 我知道你們做了研議了可是有答應蘭嶼人這件事情沒有錯吧答應是什麼時候之前要簽署\n105802\t107603\t有人跟我澄清\n128139\t138148\t你們曾經放過這三個量子力學三巨頭在你們的臉書上應該知道吧?主委認得嗎?\n138148\t148016\t右邊那個薛丁格很有名嘛那個薛丁格的故事大家都知道那主委知道左邊那三位女性是誰嗎?\n150964\t167123\t是居里夫人這三位的中間中間是居里夫人嗎你把中間居里夫人會跟他們三個站在一起這有沒有弄錯好來我請那個我們中規組組長就您不知道嘛\n169290\t180980\t跟委員報告那是那三個科學家的太太跟媽媽所以不是居里夫人如果是居里夫人那我就要高興了我要講的事情是誇張的是你們的臉書小編放過這張圖當時完全沒有解釋左邊三位是誰連是人家的夫人什麼家屬都沒有講\n191269\t220569\t可是你們居然在跟你們的原能會的性評小組的報告裡面把這張圖跟小編臉書說成說這張圖是在傳達性別對科學發展之影響力無論是科學家本人或是科學家背後之女性支持者均同等重要意思就是說科學家三個是男的然後他們的老婆是女的這個圖叫做傳達性別對科學發展之影響力\n222563\t243968\t所以你們的科學家沒有女的都是男的所以女性的影響力就是當他們的老婆跟背後的女性支持者是這樣嗎?這是你們的性別平等的報告欸不是 這跟委員報告一下如果委員從網路上看這張照片的話大部分的照片都把三位女性全部cut掉\n244588\t264135\t所以你們放進去已經對女性很好了主委還以為上面是居里夫人呢因為我們要注重性品所以這些後面相關的人物你要放喔筆切掉這當然是有加分啦可是把這張的而且你們你們的小編完全沒有說這旁邊三個是誰放了卻不說人家是誰\n265475\t294341\t但是更誇張的是當你們性別小組我們行政院主流化各部會都有性別小組就是說你們給人家的報告是要講科學家跟性別的時候拿這張圖告訴大家性別平等就是科學家本人還沒講男性科學家背後是女性支持者就是說是用這個來講性別跟科技你們都找不到任何一個女性科學家來告訴大家性別跟科學發展\n295899\t322099\t這個部分我們會來再這是你們的會議記錄我剛唸的東西都是你們會議記錄你們性別小組的會議記錄就是有委員王平詢問這件事然後你們的人家已經問了你還可以答成這樣然後還在這個報告裡就這樣所以呢為什麼要關心你們你看時間沒有了都沒有時間問了因為原能會之前出過很有名的性騷案新主委知道嗎\n325808\t345763\t內部細節不是很清楚你可以再去了解一下我們在這邊林盈瑾委員都有看到我跟林盈瑾委員還要求行政院要報告因為你們的性騷擾的相關規定沒有處理主委本人如果是性別歧視或者是性騷擾的行為人的話怎麼處理所以你們整個園農會性別意識可能真的有待加強\n349606\t371148\t現在呢我之前預算都有請你們加強性騷擾防治我現在發現你們不是只有性騷擾防治性別平等意識從你們的性平小組你們給出的報告人家已經專業委員問了還不知道哪裡的問題喔真的非常的值得加強針對如何加強你們內部的性別平等意識可不可以一個月給我一個檢討報告好的\n372609\t374110\t一級主管的女性遠低於女性成員比核安會女性主管21%國園會女性主管20%員工33%女性1%\n398640\t426978\t更誇張的事情你們的一級主管人家別的被行政院性評處管考的都是生喔你們的一級主管人數一年降下來就是75%降到38%降到21%你們的母數是19個主管可以越降越少耶為什麼呢好不容易做到女性一級主管的他們為什麼的百分比是越降越低低於他現在的\n427952\t455668\t母數的比例啊主委你有沒有發現這件事情有有有有那個我跟委員報告那個我們最近其實還有一個副組長就是副處長的層級那麼其實他就是女性那麼我不曉得有沒有算在這裡面那麼其實我們在升等的時候其實有很嚴謹的這個制度啦因為我們最近剛搬過升等\n456408\t475898\t那麼我們會將來會來註意來註意喔那您知不知道行政院性別平等處在管考政府所有的委員會那有75%的委員會都達標了而且那個是高標40%喔那我們的核安會沒有達標你知道嗎\n477619\t482766\t清楚我知道這個是大概我們會繼續來努力會繼續來努力至少就一級主管那如果你有聽過西點原則你有沒有聽過\n492418\t517355\t沒有齁那跟您報告一下西點原則是CEDAW相關的部分就是說如果你達不到百分之三十、四十的時候至少要消極的不可低於原始的母數的性別比就是你原始的母數比如說只有百分之十的女性那你禮監事就不要低於百分之十好不好那你現在的母數有百分之三十幾那你的主管人數我們先不要講那個\n518275\t523762\t行政院管考的40%性別評審處的各委員會你至少不要地域的母數比好不好那請問主委您是不是會續任呢?\n528345\t529085\t二、審查113年度中央政府總預算 ​​​解凍案\n552474\t566601\t當然我是祝福您續任好不好那這個可不可以給我辦公室一個報告因為呢我去年在修應該是去年嗎核安會的組織法的時候你們的前劉副主委他還在嗎\n568443\t588744\t他退休了我當時說組織法要放三分之一性別比的時候他告訴我說行政院的目標對他們的要求是40%所以我們以40%為目標所以不需要定在那裡叫我支持所以呢顯然就是說你們是應付委員嘛講一講之後都沒有任何的做法是不是\n589891\t613377\t我不清楚劉副主委怎麼說的那為了避免你們應付委員給我一個報告讓我可以繼續追蹤好嗎那這多久內可以給我一個報告這個如何逐步提升女性主管的比例因為我們如果要有女主委也要有歷練的過程嘛對不對好我們一個月好謝謝那個主委\n","txt":"有請陳竺偉\n范委員主委午安今天好幾位國民黨委員都問到那個研議的問題我想我之前其實問過您想再請您解答啦因為您一直說尊重大院的請問一下那個核廢料的安全是不是也是你們有相關的監管責任是的對那蘭嶼的這個遷出就是說到底找到放置的地點了沒有\n沒有沒有那都沒有的話然後剛剛講新北的這個問題都沒解決那這個核廢料的這個安全就是說研議的話代價是誰付啊要蘭嶼人繼續承擔嗎都找不到可以放置的地方\n就是核廢料的困境那主委你要有道德勇氣該說清楚的問題機會誰承擔要講清楚好不好不能讓一直讓我們原住民就是藍綠人承擔吧這樣有正義嗎主委這樣有正義嗎有還是沒有沒有那為什麼沒有辦法簽署\n沒有人願意放嘛所以我們是繼續在傷害蘭嶼人傷害原住民好不好就是說這個部分請主委不過那個范委員我們現在對蘭嶼地方儲存庫有做很嚴密的 我知道你們做了研議了可是有答應蘭嶼人這件事情沒有錯吧答應是什麼時候之前要簽署\n有人跟我澄清\n你們曾經放過這三個量子力學三巨頭在你們的臉書上應該知道吧?主委認得嗎?\n右邊那個薛丁格很有名嘛那個薛丁格的故事大家都知道那主委知道左邊那三位女性是誰嗎?\n是居里夫人這三位的中間中間是居里夫人嗎你把中間居里夫人會跟他們三個站在一起這有沒有弄錯好來我請那個我們中規組組長就您不知道嘛\n跟委員報告那是那三個科學家的太太跟媽媽所以不是居里夫人如果是居里夫人那我就要高興了我要講的事情是誇張的是你們的臉書小編放過這張圖當時完全沒有解釋左邊三位是誰連是人家的夫人什麼家屬都沒有講\n可是你們居然在跟你們的原能會的性評小組的報告裡面把這張圖跟小編臉書說成說這張圖是在傳達性別對科學發展之影響力無論是科學家本人或是科學家背後之女性支持者均同等重要意思就是說科學家三個是男的然後他們的老婆是女的這個圖叫做傳達性別對科學發展之影響力\n所以你們的科學家沒有女的都是男的所以女性的影響力就是當他們的老婆跟背後的女性支持者是這樣嗎?這是你們的性別平等的報告欸不是 這跟委員報告一下如果委員從網路上看這張照片的話大部分的照片都把三位女性全部cut掉\n所以你們放進去已經對女性很好了主委還以為上面是居里夫人呢因為我們要注重性品所以這些後面相關的人物你要放喔筆切掉這當然是有加分啦可是把這張的而且你們你們的小編完全沒有說這旁邊三個是誰放了卻不說人家是誰\n但是更誇張的是當你們性別小組我們行政院主流化各部會都有性別小組就是說你們給人家的報告是要講科學家跟性別的時候拿這張圖告訴大家性別平等就是科學家本人還沒講男性科學家背後是女性支持者就是說是用這個來講性別跟科技你們都找不到任何一個女性科學家來告訴大家性別跟科學發展\n這個部分我們會來再這是你們的會議記錄我剛唸的東西都是你們會議記錄你們性別小組的會議記錄就是有委員王平詢問這件事然後你們的人家已經問了你還可以答成這樣然後還在這個報告裡就這樣所以呢為什麼要關心你們你看時間沒有了都沒有時間問了因為原能會之前出過很有名的性騷案新主委知道嗎\n內部細節不是很清楚你可以再去了解一下我們在這邊林盈瑾委員都有看到我跟林盈瑾委員還要求行政院要報告因為你們的性騷擾的相關規定沒有處理主委本人如果是性別歧視或者是性騷擾的行為人的話怎麼處理所以你們整個園農會性別意識可能真的有待加強\n現在呢我之前預算都有請你們加強性騷擾防治我現在發現你們不是只有性騷擾防治性別平等意識從你們的性平小組你們給出的報告人家已經專業委員問了還不知道哪裡的問題喔真的非常的值得加強針對如何加強你們內部的性別平等意識可不可以一個月給我一個檢討報告好的\n一級主管的女性遠低於女性成員比核安會女性主管21%國園會女性主管20%員工33%女性1%\n更誇張的事情你們的一級主管人家別的被行政院性評處管考的都是生喔你們的一級主管人數一年降下來就是75%降到38%降到21%你們的母數是19個主管可以越降越少耶為什麼呢好不容易做到女性一級主管的他們為什麼的百分比是越降越低低於他現在的\n母數的比例啊主委你有沒有發現這件事情有有有有那個我跟委員報告那個我們最近其實還有一個副組長就是副處長的層級那麼其實他就是女性那麼我不曉得有沒有算在這裡面那麼其實我們在升等的時候其實有很嚴謹的這個制度啦因為我們最近剛搬過升等\n那麼我們會將來會來註意來註意喔那您知不知道行政院性別平等處在管考政府所有的委員會那有75%的委員會都達標了而且那個是高標40%喔那我們的核安會沒有達標你知道嗎\n清楚我知道這個是大概我們會繼續來努力會繼續來努力至少就一級主管那如果你有聽過西點原則你有沒有聽過\n沒有齁那跟您報告一下西點原則是CEDAW相關的部分就是說如果你達不到百分之三十、四十的時候至少要消極的不可低於原始的母數的性別比就是你原始的母數比如說只有百分之十的女性那你禮監事就不要低於百分之十好不好那你現在的母數有百分之三十幾那你的主管人數我們先不要講那個\n行政院管考的40%性別評審處的各委員會你至少不要地域的母數比好不好那請問主委您是不是會續任呢?\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算 ​​​解凍案\n當然我是祝福您續任好不好那這個可不可以給我辦公室一個報告因為呢我去年在修應該是去年嗎核安會的組織法的時候你們的前劉副主委他還在嗎\n他退休了我當時說組織法要放三分之一性別比的時候他告訴我說行政院的目標對他們的要求是40%所以我們以40%為目標所以不需要定在那裡叫我支持所以呢顯然就是說你們是應付委員嘛講一講之後都沒有任何的做法是不是\n我不清楚劉副主委怎麼說的那為了避免你們應付委員給我一個報告讓我可以繼續追蹤好嗎那這多久內可以給我一個報告這個如何逐步提升女性主管的比例因為我們如果要有女主委也要有歷練的過程嘛對不對好我們一個月好謝謝那個主委\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.735 --> 00:03.996\n有請陳竺偉\n\n00:13.724 --> 00:31.753\n范委員主委午安今天好幾位國民黨委員都問到那個研議的問題我想我之前其實問過您想再請您解答啦因為您一直說尊重大院的請問一下那個核廢料的安全是不是也是你們有相關的監管責任是的對那蘭嶼的這個遷出就是說到底找到放置的地點了沒有\n\n00:38.803 --> 00:49.496\n沒有沒有那都沒有的話然後剛剛講新北的這個問題都沒解決那這個核廢料的這個安全就是說研議的話代價是誰付啊要蘭嶼人繼續承擔嗎都找不到可以放置的地方\n\n00:57.304 --> 01:10.416\n就是核廢料的困境那主委你要有道德勇氣該說清楚的問題機會誰承擔要講清楚好不好不能讓一直讓我們原住民就是藍綠人承擔吧這樣有正義嗎主委這樣有正義嗎有還是沒有沒有那為什麼沒有辦法簽署\n\n01:21.360 --> 01:42.656\n沒有人願意放嘛所以我們是繼續在傷害蘭嶼人傷害原住民好不好就是說這個部分請主委不過那個范委員我們現在對蘭嶼地方儲存庫有做很嚴密的我知道你們做了研議了可是有答應蘭嶼人這件事情沒有錯吧答應是什麼時候之前要簽署\n\n01:45.802 --> 01:47.603\n有人跟我澄清\n\n02:08.139 --> 02:18.148\n你們曾經放過這三個量子力學三巨頭在你們的臉書上應該知道吧?主委認得嗎?\n\n02:18.148 --> 02:28.016\n右邊那個薛丁格很有名嘛那個薛丁格的故事大家都知道那主委知道左邊那三位女性是誰嗎?\n\n02:30.964 --> 02:47.123\n是居里夫人這三位的中間中間是居里夫人嗎你把中間居里夫人會跟他們三個站在一起這有沒有弄錯好來我請那個我們中規組組長就您不知道嘛\n\n02:49.290 --> 03:00.980\n跟委員報告那是那三個科學家的太太跟媽媽所以不是居里夫人如果是居里夫人那我就要高興了我要講的事情是誇張的是你們的臉書小編放過這張圖當時完全沒有解釋左邊三位是誰連是人家的夫人什麼家屬都沒有講\n\n03:11.269 --> 03:40.569\n可是你們居然在跟你們的原能會的性評小組的報告裡面把這張圖跟小編臉書說成說這張圖是在傳達性別對科學發展之影響力無論是科學家本人或是科學家背後之女性支持者均同等重要意思就是說科學家三個是男的然後他們的老婆是女的這個圖叫做傳達性別對科學發展之影響力\n\n03:42.563 --> 04:03.968\n所以你們的科學家沒有女的都是男的所以女性的影響力就是當他們的老婆跟背後的女性支持者是這樣嗎?這是你們的性別平等的報告欸不是這跟委員報告一下如果委員從網路上看這張照片的話大部分的照片都把三位女性全部cut掉\n\n04:04.588 --> 04:24.135\n所以你們放進去已經對女性很好了主委還以為上面是居里夫人呢因為我們要注重性品所以這些後面相關的人物你要放喔筆切掉這當然是有加分啦可是把這張的而且你們你們的小編完全沒有說這旁邊三個是誰放了卻不說人家是誰\n\n04:25.475 --> 04:54.341\n但是更誇張的是當你們性別小組我們行政院主流化各部會都有性別小組就是說你們給人家的報告是要講科學家跟性別的時候拿這張圖告訴大家性別平等就是科學家本人還沒講男性科學家背後是女性支持者就是說是用這個來講性別跟科技你們都找不到任何一個女性科學家來告訴大家性別跟科學發展\n\n04:55.899 --> 05:22.099\n這個部分我們會來再這是你們的會議記錄我剛唸的東西都是你們會議記錄你們性別小組的會議記錄就是有委員王平詢問這件事然後你們的人家已經問了你還可以答成這樣然後還在這個報告裡就這樣所以呢為什麼要關心你們你看時間沒有了都沒有時間問了因為原能會之前出過很有名的性騷案新主委知道嗎\n\n05:25.808 --> 05:45.763\n內部細節不是很清楚你可以再去了解一下我們在這邊林盈瑾委員都有看到我跟林盈瑾委員還要求行政院要報告因為你們的性騷擾的相關規定沒有處理主委本人如果是性別歧視或者是性騷擾的行為人的話怎麼處理所以你們整個園農會性別意識可能真的有待加強\n\n05:49.606 --> 06:11.148\n現在呢我之前預算都有請你們加強性騷擾防治我現在發現你們不是只有性騷擾防治性別平等意識從你們的性平小組你們給出的報告人家已經專業委員問了還不知道哪裡的問題喔真的非常的值得加強針對如何加強你們內部的性別平等意識可不可以一個月給我一個檢討報告好的\n\n06:12.609 --> 06:14.110\n一級主管的女性遠低於女性成員比核安會女性主管21%國園會女性主管20%員工33%女性1%\n\n06:38.640 --> 07:06.978\n更誇張的事情你們的一級主管人家別的被行政院性評處管考的都是生喔你們的一級主管人數一年降下來就是75%降到38%降到21%你們的母數是19個主管可以越降越少耶為什麼呢好不容易做到女性一級主管的他們為什麼的百分比是越降越低低於他現在的\n\n07:07.952 --> 07:35.668\n母數的比例啊主委你有沒有發現這件事情有有有有那個我跟委員報告那個我們最近其實還有一個副組長就是副處長的層級那麼其實他就是女性那麼我不曉得有沒有算在這裡面那麼其實我們在升等的時候其實有很嚴謹的這個制度啦因為我們最近剛搬過升等\n\n07:36.408 --> 07:55.898\n那麼我們會將來會來註意來註意喔那您知不知道行政院性別平等處在管考政府所有的委員會那有75%的委員會都達標了而且那個是高標40%喔那我們的核安會沒有達標你知道嗎\n\n07:57.619 --> 08:02.766\n清楚我知道這個是大概我們會繼續來努力會繼續來努力至少就一級主管那如果你有聽過西點原則你有沒有聽過\n\n08:12.418 --> 08:37.355\n沒有齁那跟您報告一下西點原則是CEDAW相關的部分就是說如果你達不到百分之三十、四十的時候至少要消極的不可低於原始的母數的性別比就是你原始的母數比如說只有百分之十的女性那你禮監事就不要低於百分之十好不好那你現在的母數有百分之三十幾那你的主管人數我們先不要講那個\n\n08:38.275 --> 08:43.762\n行政院管考的40%性別評審處的各委員會你至少不要地域的母數比好不好那請問主委您是不是會續任呢?\n\n08:48.345 --> 08:49.085\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算​​​解凍案\n\n09:12.474 --> 09:26.601\n當然我是祝福您續任好不好那這個可不可以給我辦公室一個報告因為呢我去年在修應該是去年嗎核安會的組織法的時候你們的前劉副主委他還在嗎\n\n09:28.443 --> 09:48.744\n他退休了我當時說組織法要放三分之一性別比的時候他告訴我說行政院的目標對他們的要求是40%所以我們以40%為目標所以不需要定在那裡叫我支持所以呢顯然就是說你們是應付委員嘛講一講之後都沒有任何的做法是不是\n\n09:49.891 --> 10:13.377\n我不清楚劉副主委怎麼說的那為了避免你們應付委員給我一個報告讓我可以繼續追蹤好嗎那這多久內可以給我一個報告這個如何逐步提升女性主管的比例因為我們如果要有女主委也要有歷練的過程嘛對不對好我們一個月好謝謝那個主委\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.735,"end":3.996,"text":"有請陳竺偉"},{"start":13.724,"end":31.753,"text":"范委員主委午安今天好幾位國民黨委員都問到那個研議的問題我想我之前其實問過您想再請您解答啦因為您一直說尊重大院的請問一下那個核廢料的安全是不是也是你們有相關的監管責任是的對那蘭嶼的這個遷出就是說到底找到放置的地點了沒有"},{"start":38.803,"end":49.496,"text":"沒有沒有那都沒有的話然後剛剛講新北的這個問題都沒解決那這個核廢料的這個安全就是說研議的話代價是誰付啊要蘭嶼人繼續承擔嗎都找不到可以放置的地方"},{"start":57.304,"end":70.416,"text":"就是核廢料的困境那主委你要有道德勇氣該說清楚的問題機會誰承擔要講清楚好不好不能讓一直讓我們原住民就是藍綠人承擔吧這樣有正義嗎主委這樣有正義嗎有還是沒有沒有那為什麼沒有辦法簽署"},{"start":81.36,"end":102.656,"text":"沒有人願意放嘛所以我們是繼續在傷害蘭嶼人傷害原住民好不好就是說這個部分請主委不過那個范委員我們現在對蘭嶼地方儲存庫有做很嚴密的 我知道你們做了研議了可是有答應蘭嶼人這件事情沒有錯吧答應是什麼時候之前要簽署"},{"start":105.802,"end":107.603,"text":"有人跟我澄清"},{"start":128.139,"end":138.148,"text":"你們曾經放過這三個量子力學三巨頭在你們的臉書上應該知道吧?主委認得嗎?"},{"start":138.148,"end":148.016,"text":"右邊那個薛丁格很有名嘛那個薛丁格的故事大家都知道那主委知道左邊那三位女性是誰嗎?"},{"start":150.964,"end":167.123,"text":"是居里夫人這三位的中間中間是居里夫人嗎你把中間居里夫人會跟他們三個站在一起這有沒有弄錯好來我請那個我們中規組組長就您不知道嘛"},{"start":169.29,"end":180.98,"text":"跟委員報告那是那三個科學家的太太跟媽媽所以不是居里夫人如果是居里夫人那我就要高興了我要講的事情是誇張的是你們的臉書小編放過這張圖當時完全沒有解釋左邊三位是誰連是人家的夫人什麼家屬都沒有講"},{"start":191.269,"end":220.569,"text":"可是你們居然在跟你們的原能會的性評小組的報告裡面把這張圖跟小編臉書說成說這張圖是在傳達性別對科學發展之影響力無論是科學家本人或是科學家背後之女性支持者均同等重要意思就是說科學家三個是男的然後他們的老婆是女的這個圖叫做傳達性別對科學發展之影響力"},{"start":222.563,"end":243.968,"text":"所以你們的科學家沒有女的都是男的所以女性的影響力就是當他們的老婆跟背後的女性支持者是這樣嗎?這是你們的性別平等的報告欸不是 這跟委員報告一下如果委員從網路上看這張照片的話大部分的照片都把三位女性全部cut掉"},{"start":244.588,"end":264.135,"text":"所以你們放進去已經對女性很好了主委還以為上面是居里夫人呢因為我們要注重性品所以這些後面相關的人物你要放喔筆切掉這當然是有加分啦可是把這張的而且你們你們的小編完全沒有說這旁邊三個是誰放了卻不說人家是誰"},{"start":265.475,"end":294.341,"text":"但是更誇張的是當你們性別小組我們行政院主流化各部會都有性別小組就是說你們給人家的報告是要講科學家跟性別的時候拿這張圖告訴大家性別平等就是科學家本人還沒講男性科學家背後是女性支持者就是說是用這個來講性別跟科技你們都找不到任何一個女性科學家來告訴大家性別跟科學發展"},{"start":295.899,"end":322.099,"text":"這個部分我們會來再這是你們的會議記錄我剛唸的東西都是你們會議記錄你們性別小組的會議記錄就是有委員王平詢問這件事然後你們的人家已經問了你還可以答成這樣然後還在這個報告裡就這樣所以呢為什麼要關心你們你看時間沒有了都沒有時間問了因為原能會之前出過很有名的性騷案新主委知道嗎"},{"start":325.808,"end":345.763,"text":"內部細節不是很清楚你可以再去了解一下我們在這邊林盈瑾委員都有看到我跟林盈瑾委員還要求行政院要報告因為你們的性騷擾的相關規定沒有處理主委本人如果是性別歧視或者是性騷擾的行為人的話怎麼處理所以你們整個園農會性別意識可能真的有待加強"},{"start":349.606,"end":371.148,"text":"現在呢我之前預算都有請你們加強性騷擾防治我現在發現你們不是只有性騷擾防治性別平等意識從你們的性平小組你們給出的報告人家已經專業委員問了還不知道哪裡的問題喔真的非常的值得加強針對如何加強你們內部的性別平等意識可不可以一個月給我一個檢討報告好的"},{"start":372.609,"end":374.11,"text":"一級主管的女性遠低於女性成員比核安會女性主管21%國園會女性主管20%員工33%女性1%"},{"start":398.64,"end":426.978,"text":"更誇張的事情你們的一級主管人家別的被行政院性評處管考的都是生喔你們的一級主管人數一年降下來就是75%降到38%降到21%你們的母數是19個主管可以越降越少耶為什麼呢好不容易做到女性一級主管的他們為什麼的百分比是越降越低低於他現在的"},{"start":427.952,"end":455.668,"text":"母數的比例啊主委你有沒有發現這件事情有有有有那個我跟委員報告那個我們最近其實還有一個副組長就是副處長的層級那麼其實他就是女性那麼我不曉得有沒有算在這裡面那麼其實我們在升等的時候其實有很嚴謹的這個制度啦因為我們最近剛搬過升等"},{"start":456.408,"end":475.898,"text":"那麼我們會將來會來註意來註意喔那您知不知道行政院性別平等處在管考政府所有的委員會那有75%的委員會都達標了而且那個是高標40%喔那我們的核安會沒有達標你知道嗎"},{"start":477.619,"end":482.766,"text":"清楚我知道這個是大概我們會繼續來努力會繼續來努力至少就一級主管那如果你有聽過西點原則你有沒有聽過"},{"start":492.418,"end":517.355,"text":"沒有齁那跟您報告一下西點原則是CEDAW相關的部分就是說如果你達不到百分之三十、四十的時候至少要消極的不可低於原始的母數的性別比就是你原始的母數比如說只有百分之十的女性那你禮監事就不要低於百分之十好不好那你現在的母數有百分之三十幾那你的主管人數我們先不要講那個"},{"start":518.275,"end":523.762,"text":"行政院管考的40%性別評審處的各委員會你至少不要地域的母數比好不好那請問主委您是不是會續任呢?"},{"start":528.345,"end":529.085,"text":"二、審查113年度中央政府總預算 ​​​解凍案"},{"start":552.474,"end":566.601,"text":"當然我是祝福您續任好不好那這個可不可以給我辦公室一個報告因為呢我去年在修應該是去年嗎核安會的組織法的時候你們的前劉副主委他還在嗎"},{"start":568.443,"end":588.744,"text":"他退休了我當時說組織法要放三分之一性別比的時候他告訴我說行政院的目標對他們的要求是40%所以我們以40%為目標所以不需要定在那裡叫我支持所以呢顯然就是說你們是應付委員嘛講一講之後都沒有任何的做法是不是"},{"start":589.891,"end":613.377,"text":"我不清楚劉副主委怎麼說的那為了避免你們應付委員給我一個報告讓我可以繼續追蹤好嗎那這多久內可以給我一個報告這個如何逐步提升女性主管的比例因為我們如果要有女主委也要有歷練的過程嘛對不對好我們一個月好謝謝那個主委"}]}}}}