{"id":151697,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151697","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/534e6c42fa7aedb3cdc854767414e120b903698ddfaa754aeadb1108e4b84432b36af2056dcf8b7c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"12:35:37 - 12:46:37","影片長度":"00:11:00","會議時間":"2024-04-24T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請衛生福利部部長就「家暴零容忍-檢討112年家庭暴力防治法修正施行概況」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、邀請衛生福利部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會就「非法網站創意私房案件，提出兒少性影像防制具體作為、檢討報告，並就兒童及少年性剝削防制條例修正方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【專題報告綜合詢答】\n【4月22日、24日及25日三天一次會】）","date":"2024-04-24","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-13"},"duration":660,"end_time":"2024-04-24T12:46:37+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-24T12:35:37+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1198,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（12時35分）主席謝謝，麻煩請薛部長。"],["主席：請薛部長。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長好。部長，上一次在兒少性剝削專報裡面，我有提出應該要成立數位性犯罪的專責單位、斬斷非法金流以及建立兒少犯罪資料庫這三個政策方向，當時也獲得你這邊的承諾，然後來去做，所以4月19日本席也看到了，你有召集司法院、法務部、內政部、數發部、NCC以及金管會來召開修法方向會議，對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是本席認為我們真的要玩真的，以及真的要嚇阻犯罪的狀況，還有最重要的就是要有效，其實兩大方向啦！第一點是簡化封網流程跟主動搜尋相關網站及金流，第二點是針對非法的金流要有效地嚇阻，有效地阻斷。","第一，我先請教一下，在4月19日裡面有提到，增訂相關機關運用網路科技主動偵查兒少性影像案件，這個會由哪一個機關去負責？主責單位。"],["薛部長瑞元：以目前的話，還是在衛福部這邊會來做負責。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以未來是衛福部相關的單位會成立一個主要的機關、網路的搜尋小組，去看網路上有哪些非法的兒少性影像？"],["薛部長瑞元：我們目前的規劃是這樣子，因為有一個「科技偵查法」現在在行政院，它的主管機關應該是在法務部，但是那個法要通過可能要很長的時間，所以現階段我們預計大概會由衛福部來委託、委外來做辦理。當然要做封網這個動作是屬於行政處分，這個還是衛福部必須要負責，但是前面用科技的方法來幫我們做這種搜尋的話，我們是可以委外來辦理。"],["洪委員孟楷：是衛福部，然後委外部辦理，是不是？"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，為什麼本席認為這很重要？因為兒少性剝削如果就這一個案件來講，所謂的「創意私房」，一般人其實是不知道，但是它存在多久？就媒體的報導，它已經存在很久，而且會員招收很多，所以這有點類似說內行人一個牽一個，一般社會大眾不知道，但是內行人有專門管道一個牽一個，代表這樣的犯罪其實是行之有年，如果說我們沒有主動去偵查的話，恐怕如果不是因為這一次有藝人的事件爆發，我們還不知道到底已經受害多久，所以這當然要主動去偵查。主動的部分是由衛福部這邊來做，預計多久會成立這樣的單位？"],["薛部長瑞元：目前我們有幾個步驟，第一個就是要先找相關這方面領域的一些專家來討論，也就是說，我們招標的規格要怎麼樣訂……"],["洪委員孟楷：會用一個標案，然後會去委託公司來處理。"],["薛部長瑞元：對，但是這個標案的內容要怎麼樣寫，因為我們不是這方面的內行……"],["洪委員孟楷：沒關係，預計多久會出來？"],["薛部長瑞元：我們希望一、兩個禮拜就可以……"],["洪委員孟楷：一、兩個禮拜？"],["薛部長瑞元：完成招標的規劃書，我們的RFP就可以出來。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，所以看起來部長有信心在卸任之前，能夠有這樣一個標案出來，是不是？"],["薛部長瑞元：是，我希望可以做得到。"],["洪委員孟楷：好。另外一個部分，本席有提到金流很重要，為什麼？殺頭的生意有人做，賠錢的生意沒人做，為什麼會有這麼多人明明知道這是違法的，但是他還去做？是因為有賺錢啦！那怎麼樣把非法的金流給阻斷，這很重要，一個是非法金流阻斷，另外一個就是我加重你的犯罪成本，讓你知道你賺這種黑心錢、貪心錢，一旦被抓到，你要付出的成本很高。那我請教，在這一次裡面，你們有召開兒童及少年性剝削修法方向的會議，針對營利或者是販售，你們有沒有做討論？"],["薛部長瑞元：有。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，因為我們委員也有好幾個版本，我自己也有提出相關的修法版本，如果你是拿兒童性影像去做營利或販售的話，我們行政單位建議，現在最高要處多少的罰款跟多少的刑責？"],["薛部長瑞元：在本來的條文裡面，意圖營利就是有加重處罰。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，沒錯。"],["薛部長瑞元：我們這一次的修法，在建議的條文裡面是要把付費者這個部分也入法，要去處罰。"],["洪委員孟楷：本席完全接受，我也認為你去持有跟你花錢去購買兒少性影像是完全不同的，等於是你花錢購買要加重處分。"],["薛部長瑞元：對，供需兩方嘛！"],["洪委員孟楷：但是一樣，供給的部分，本席在講嘛！製毒跟販毒應該是要更嚴格的處罰，那一樣，我現在講的是營利或者是販售，我們在這一次有沒有提出相關的？"],["薛部長瑞元：這一次倒沒有特別提出，因為本來的條文就有加重其刑二分之一，本來是1到7年，加二分之一，這是本來的條文就有的。是否需要再增加，我想這個……"],["洪委員孟楷：我有看到很多委員的版本，甚至有建議3年以上或者是5年以上，營利的部分我覺得適時地加重，可能之後我們逐條可以再討論。"],["薛部長瑞元：對，這個可以再討論。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是重點是在於加強他的犯罪成本，我覺得這是應該的。"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：最後，你們在4月19日的開會討論裡面，沒有講到任何關於怎麼樣阻斷非法金流。"],["薛部長瑞元：有討論，但是因為技術上的……"],["洪委員孟楷：是啊！但是你們今天提出來的部分，沒有任何違法金流的阻斷，所以我們現在講了很多，討論了很多都是說我怎麼樣抓到，我怎麼樣能夠嚴刑立法，但是現在的問題是不是抓不到？有可能他在海外，第一，抓不到；第二，他在海外持續有賺錢。之前也有很多的這種論壇有變形啊！因為是數位影像，所以他複製很容易，也因此今天封了A論壇，他可能複製之後直接在B，換一個IP或是換一個架設又再上網。"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：如果等我們查到，然後再去封網，他又換成C，那金流的部分怎麼樣阻斷？"],["薛部長瑞元：這個部分我們在19日討論的時候，沒有結論的原因就是……"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有結論，沒有具體，有討論但沒有結論。"],["薛部長瑞元：有。"],["洪委員孟楷：是大家在互相推託？"],["薛部長瑞元：不是，因為這個有一些技術上面的問題，相關單位必須要繼續去研議，所以我們這一次的建議條文沒有把它放進來的原因是在這個地方。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，你這樣講，本席打開天窗說亮話，因為我覺得金流的部分不應該只就衛福部一個部會，這點本席是站在客觀公允的高度。本席剛剛也看了一下今天所有各部會的報告，我也再拜託，今天因為部會不是部長來，所以我不要求你們上臺，但是媒體朋友以及大家在看直播的人也都看到，你的內政部也是講有賴跨部會的合作，意思是內政部、警政署配合啦！你的數發部是配合中央主管機關的指示，你的金管會是全力協助司法警察機關的偵辦，這3個部會都在踢皮球哦？我講實在話，你踢我、我踢你，如果再這樣下去的話，我們足球的產業可以蓬勃發展，教育部用6年來推動足球產業提升，倒不如我們幾個部會大家多踢幾次皮球，非常難看，我真的講，非常難看。","金流其實是非法集團他們賴以維生，為什麼這些非法集團春風吹又生、斬草除不盡？就是因為他們賺得了錢，如果我們還要放任兒少性影像變成是非法集團賺錢工具的話，任何一個國人都沒有辦法接受，所以歹勢，部長，什麼時候還會再開會，把金流這個部分納進來？"],["薛部長瑞元：我想這個我們可以再安排。"],["洪委員孟楷：可以再安排是什麼時候？你剛剛很有guts，520前你要成立專責小組，那520前能不能再開會，讓大家看到是哪一個機關？其實我說實在話，金流沒有辦法阻斷，你就很難保不會有B、有C再出來。"],["薛部長瑞元：明天我們有一個會，金管會也會在，我們會再提這一個案子。"],["洪委員孟楷：能不能更要求金管會？金管會在4月19日派哪一個層級的人過來？他們派誰來？其實我問過金管會，甚至主委，我都講說你銀行內部的東西管得很好，但是出了銀行以外的，好像都是一問三不知或是三不管地帶，反正不關它的事。能不能要求更高層級的人一起來開會？"],["薛部長瑞元：我們在聯絡的時候，會特別跟他們提醒。"],["洪委員孟楷：本席真的希望是玩真的，所以這是為什麼你有做的部分我肯定，但沒做的部分我也要點出來，讓大家看到其他部會還沒有跟上。我真的認為在這件事情上面，衛福部相對來講有跑，但其他部會沒有跟上，大家還是覺得這是衛福部的事，推給衛福部，反正520後部長都會換一批，就看誰接下來要處理這個爛攤子。能夠做事我肯定，但我更希望各部會都要跟上，謝謝。"],["薛部長瑞元：謝謝。"],["主席（陳委員瑩代）：謝謝洪委員。","接下來請陳培瑜委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":346,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-13","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","廖偉翔","邱鎮軍","王育敏","涂權吉","王正旭","林淑芬","李坤城","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","陳培瑜","黃珊珊","何欣純","黃國昌","李彥秀","洪孟楷","羅智強","徐欣瑩","陳瑩","劉建國","楊曜","盧縣一","蘇清泉","鍾佳濱","牛煦庭"],"page_start":253,"meetingDate":["2024-04-24"],"gazette_id":"1133401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133401_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請衛生福利部部長就「家暴零容忍─ 檢討 112年家庭暴力防治法修正施行概況」進行專題\n報告，並備質詢；二、邀請衛生福利部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政\n署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會就「非法網站創意私房案件，提出兒少性影像防制具\n體作為、檢討報告，並就兒童及少年性剝削防制條例修正方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1133401_00003"}},"transcript":{"id":"151697","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151697","tool":"pyannote","id":"151697-pyannote"},"job_id":"eOrGs6HrScTpyDFP","queued_at":"2024-05-31 18:11:23","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 18:11:23","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151697"},{"time":"2024-05-31 18:11:24","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/534e6c42fa7aedb3cdc854767414e120b903698ddfaa754a0ea7fa9c781b9e75e2b1819fafab4f6f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-05-31 18:11:47","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-05-31 18:11:48","msg":"running pyannote"},{"time":"2024-05-31 18:11:59","msg":"status: 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555.629, \"end\": 556.049, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"集\", \"start\": 556.049, \"end\": 556.449, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"團\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 556.449, \"end\": 556.929, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"賺\"}, {\"word\": \"錢\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 556.929, \"end\": 557.109, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"具\", \"start\": 557.109, \"end\": 557.249, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 557.249, \"end\": 558.27, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 558.27, \"end\": 558.55, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 558.55, \"end\": 558.79, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"何\", \"start\": 558.79, \"end\": 558.95, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 558.95, \"end\": 559.27, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 559.27, \"end\": 559.41, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 559.41, \"end\": 559.51, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 559.51, \"end\": 559.59, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 559.59, \"end\": 559.65, \"score\": 0.736}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 559.65, \"end\": 559.87, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 559.87, \"end\": 560.07, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"受\", \"start\": 560.07, \"end\": 561.05, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 561.05, \"end\": 561.23, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 561.23, \"end\": 562.491, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 562.491, \"end\": 562.591, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 562.591, \"end\": 562.611, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 562.611, \"end\": 562.651, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"思\", \"start\": 562.651, \"end\": 562.851, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"抱\", \"start\": 562.851, \"end\": 563.011, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"歉\", \"start\": 563.011, \"end\": 564.091, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 564.091, \"end\": 564.251, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 564.251, \"end\": 564.551, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 564.551, \"end\": 565.811, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 565.811, \"end\": 566.072, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 566.072, \"end\": 566.272, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"流\", \"start\": 566.272, \"end\": 566.492, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 566.492, \"end\": 566.852, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 566.852, \"end\": 567.012, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 567.012, \"end\": 567.032, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"納\"}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}]}, {\"start\": 569.035, \"end\": 577.486, \"text\": \"我想說我們可以再安排啦可以再安排是什麼時候?你剛剛很有尬子520前你要成立這個專責小組那520前能不能再開會\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 569.035, \"end\": 569.376, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 569.376, \"end\": 569.997, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 569.997, \"end\": 570.317, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 570.317, \"end\": 570.497, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 570.497, \"end\": 570.697, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 570.697, \"end\": 570.878, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 570.878, \"end\": 571.138, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"排\", \"start\": 571.138, \"end\": 571.358, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 571.358, \"end\": 571.839, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 571.839, \"end\": 571.939, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 571.939, \"end\": 571.999, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 571.999, \"end\": 572.119, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 572.119, \"end\": 572.239, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"排\", \"start\": 572.239, \"end\": 572.44, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 572.44, \"end\": 572.58, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 572.58, \"end\": 572.78, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 572.78, \"end\": 572.94, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 572.94, \"end\": 573.381, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 573.381, \"end\": 573.481, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 573.481, \"end\": 573.621, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"尬\", \"start\": 573.621, \"end\": 573.841, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 573.841, \"end\": 574.802, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 574.802, \"end\": 574.963, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 574.963, \"end\": 575.043, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 575.043, \"end\": 575.203, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 575.203, \"end\": 575.343, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 575.343, \"end\": 576.044, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"專\"}, {\"word\": \"責\"}, {\"word\": \"小\", \"start\": 576.044, \"end\": 576.424, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"組\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 576.424, \"end\": 576.945, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 576.945, \"end\": 577.125, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 577.125, \"end\": 577.265, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 577.265, \"end\": 577.366, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 577.366, \"end\": 577.466, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 577.466, \"end\": 577.486, \"score\": 0.214}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}]}, {\"start\": 579.196, \"end\": 597.126, \"text\": \"讓大家看到是說到底是哪一個機關其實我說實在話金流沒有辦法阻斷你就很難保會有B會有C再出來明天我們有一個會啦那金管會也會再來我們會再提這一個案子能不能更要求金管會金管會在4月16號派哪一個層級的人過來音姐派一項來\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 579.196, \"end\": 579.336, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 579.336, \"end\": 579.536, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 579.536, \"end\": 579.736, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 579.736, \"end\": 579.917, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 579.917, \"end\": 580.217, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 580.217, \"end\": 580.357, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 580.357, \"end\": 580.497, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 580.497, \"end\": 580.637, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"哪\", \"start\": 580.637, \"end\": 580.817, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 580.817, \"end\": 581.357, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 581.357, \"end\": 581.678, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 581.678, \"end\": 582.098, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 582.098, \"end\": 582.458, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 582.458, \"end\": 582.638, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"流\", \"start\": 582.638, \"end\": 582.838, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 582.838, \"end\": 582.938, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 582.938, \"end\": 583.138, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 583.138, \"end\": 583.338, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"阻\", \"start\": 583.338, \"end\": 584.359, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"斷\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 584.359, \"end\": 584.539, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 584.539, \"end\": 584.799, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 584.799, \"end\": 585.219, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"難\"}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 585.219, \"end\": 585.52, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 585.52, \"end\": 585.96, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"B\", \"start\": 585.96, \"end\": 586.3, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 586.3, \"end\": 586.5, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"C\", \"start\": 586.5, \"end\": 586.78, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 586.78, \"end\": 586.96, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 586.96, \"end\": 588.421, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 588.421, \"end\": 588.621, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 588.621, \"end\": 588.801, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 588.801, \"end\": 589.102, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 589.102, \"end\": 589.262, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 589.262, \"end\": 589.782, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 589.782, \"end\": 590.182, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 590.182, \"end\": 590.442, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 590.442, \"end\": 590.622, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 590.622, \"end\": 590.963, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 590.963, \"end\": 591.303, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 591.303, \"end\": 591.683, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 591.683, \"end\": 592.103, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 592.103, \"end\": 592.323, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 592.323, \"end\": 592.443, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 592.443, \"end\": 592.884, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 592.884, \"end\": 593.124, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 593.124, 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\"end\": 656.029, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 656.029, \"end\": 656.209, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 656.209, \"end\": 656.229, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,799 --> 00:00:08,161\n來,主席謝謝,麻煩請薛部長。請薛部長\n\n2\n00:00:14,332 --> 00:00:42,879\n委員好。好,部長好。部長上一次在兒少性剝削專報裡面我就提出來說應該要成立數位犯性犯罪的專責單位斬斷非法的金流以及建立兒少犯罪資料庫三個政策方向當時也獲得你這邊的一個承諾然後來去做所以4月19號本席也看到了你有召集司法院法務部、內政部、訴發部、NCC以及金管會來召開修法的方向對不對?對\n\n3\n00:00:44,179 --> 00:01:06,955\n但是本席認為我們真的要玩真的以及真的要嚇阻犯罪的狀況還有最重要就是說我們要有效其實兩大方向一點簡化封網的流程跟主動搜尋相關網站以及金流那還有第二點是針對非法的金流要有效的嚇阻有效的阻斷\n\n4\n00:01:08,357 --> 00:01:19,023\n來第一我先請教一下我們這邊在4月19號裡面有提到是說增訂相關機關運用網路科技主動偵查兒少性影像案件這個會由哪個機關來去做負責\n\n5\n00:01:20,543 --> 00:01:20,643\n主責單位。\n\n6\n00:01:38,981 --> 00:01:53,313\n這部分的話我們目前的規劃是這樣子的因為這一個有一個科技偵查法現在在行政院他的主管機關應該是在內政部法務部是在法務部\n\n7\n00:01:54,013 --> 00:02:20,188\n但是那個法要通過可能要有很長的一個時間所以現階段我們預計大概是會由衛福部來委託就是說委外來做辦理那當然要做封網這個動作的話屬於行政處分這還是衛福部必須要負責但是前面的這些用科技的方法來幫我們去做這種搜尋的話那我們是可以來委外來辦理\n\n8\n00:02:21,348 --> 00:02:39,459\n衛福部委外部辦理為什麼本期認為說這很重要因為兒少性剝削如果說就這個案件來講所謂的這個私房啊這個私房一般人其實是不知道但它存在多久\n\n9\n00:02:40,299 --> 00:02:59,658\n就媒體的報導他已經存在很久而且會員招收很多所以這有點類似說內行人一個牽一個一般社會大眾不知道但是有內行人專門管道一個牽一個那代表說這樣犯罪其實行之有年那如果說我們沒有主動的去偵查的話恐怕不是因為這一次有所謂的這個藝人的事件爆發\n\n10\n00:03:00,379 --> 00:03:27,264\n我們還不知道說到底有受害多久所以這當然要主動去偵查所以主動的部分是由衛福部這邊來做預計多久會成立這樣的一個單位目前我們先有幾個步驟嘛第一個要先找這一個相關這方面領域的一些專家來討論也就是說我們那個招標的這個規格會用一個標案然後會去委託公司來去處理\n\n11\n00:03:27,944 --> 00:03:43,683\n立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生福利部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、\n\n12\n00:03:45,325 --> 00:04:09,619\n好,所以,看起來是部長有信心在卸任之前能夠有這樣的一個標案出來,是不是?是,我希望是可以做得到啦好,來,部長,那另外一個部分喔本席有提到是說金流很重要為什麼?殺頭的生意有人做賠錢的生意沒人做為什麼會有這麼多人明明知道說這是違法的但是他還去做,是因為五判級啦那怎麼樣\n\n13\n00:04:10,419 --> 00:04:32,289\n把非法的金流給阻斷這很重要一個是非法金流阻斷另外一個就我加重你犯罪成本讓你知道說你賺這種黑心錢貪心錢你要付出一旦被抓到你要付出的成本很高那我請教在這一次裡面沒有召開兒童少年性剝削的這個修法方向的部分針對盈利或者是販售\n\n14\n00:04:33,513 --> 00:04:52,075\n你們有沒有做討論?有那預計我們最高因為我們委員有好幾個我自己也有提出相關的手法版本那我們這個行政部門這邊預計如果說你是拿兒童性影像來去做盈利或販售的話我們現在期待最高要處多少的罰款跟多少的刑責\n\n15\n00:04:54,165 --> 00:05:03,212\n我們行政單位建議本來的條文裡面意圖營利就是有加重處罰現在是我們這一次的修完我們的建議的條文裡面是要\n\n16\n00:05:04,437 --> 00:05:28,380\n把這個付費者付費者這個部分的話也把它入法就是說要去處罰本席完全接受我也認為是說你有你去持有跟說你花錢去購買兒少性影像這個是完全不同的你是等於是你花錢購買這要加重處分但是一樣供給的部分本席在講嘛\n\n17\n00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:51,377\n制毒跟販毒是一樣是一樣的這個刑責嗎?應該是要更嚴格的一個處罰嗎?那一樣我現在講的是說營利或者是說販售的話我們在這一次有沒有提出相關的?這一次倒沒有特別這個因為本來的條本來的條文就有加這種期限二分之一本來是一到七一年\n\n18\n00:05:52,157 --> 00:05:56,901\n家暴零容忍-檢討112年家庭暴零容忍-檢討112年家庭暴零容忍-檢討112年家庭暴零容忍-檢討112年\n\n19\n00:06:20,939 --> 00:06:31,492\n沒有講到任何關於怎麼樣阻斷非法金流有討論啦,但是但是你們今天提出來的部分沒有任何違法金流的一個阻斷\n\n20\n00:06:33,208 --> 00:06:56,377\n所以我們現在在講的很多討論的很多都是講說我怎麼樣抓到我怎麼樣能夠讓他嚴刑立法但是現在的問題是不是抓不到他有可能他海外第一抓不到第二是他在海外持續有賺錢之前有很多的這種論壇有變形因為數位影像所以他複製很容易\n\n21\n00:06:57,017 --> 00:07:09,509\n也因此今天封了A論壇他可能複製之後他直接再B換一個IP或是換一個這個架設又再上網那如果說我們等到查到然後我們再去封網他又換成C\n\n22\n00:07:11,385 --> 00:07:32,219\n金流的部分怎麼樣阻斷?所以這一個部分為什麼我們那個19號討論的時候沒有結論的原因沒有結論沒有具體有討論但沒有結論是大家在互相拖拖因為在有一些技術上面的問題這個必須要相關的單位還繼續要去研議\n\n23\n00:07:35,121 --> 00:07:42,287\n所以這部分的話我們這一次的那個建議的條文就沒有把它放進來的原因是在這個地方\n\n24\n00:07:43,513 --> 00:08:11,676\n你這樣講啊本席打開天窗說亮話因為我覺得這個金流的部分就不應該只就衛福部一個部會這點本席站在客觀公允的高度本席剛剛也看了一下我們今天所有各部會的報告我也在拜託今天因為部會不是部長來所以我不要求你們上台但是真的請媒體朋友以及我們大家看直播的人也都看到\n\n25\n00:08:13,393 --> 00:08:30,103\n你的內政部也是講有賴跨部會的合作意思是內政部、警政署配合啦你的訴發部配合主管、中央主管機關的指示\n\n26\n00:08:31,431 --> 00:08:58,139\n你的金管會全力協助司法警察機關的偵辦這三個部會都在踢皮球我講實在話你踢我我踢你如果再這樣下去的話我們足球的產業可以蓬勃發展六年教育部推動我們的足球產業提升倒不如我們幾個部會大家多踢幾次皮球非常難看\n\n27\n00:09:00,205 --> 00:09:27,032\n我真的講非常難看金流其實是非法集團他們引賴維生為什麼這些非法集團吹風吹又生斬草除不盡就是因為他們賺得了錢那如果我們還要放任我們的兒少性影像是變成是非法集團的賺錢工具的話我們任何一個國人都沒有辦法接受所以不好意思抱歉什麼時候還在開會會把金流的這個部分給納進來\n\n28\n00:09:29,035 --> 00:09:37,486\n我想說我們可以再安排啦可以再安排是什麼時候?你剛剛很有尬子520前你要成立這個專責小組那520前能不能再開會\n\n29\n00:09:39,196 --> 00:09:57,126\n讓大家看到是說到底是哪一個機關其實我說實在話金流沒有辦法阻斷你就很難保會有B會有C再出來明天我們有一個會啦那金管會也會再來我們會再提這一個案子能不能更要求金管會金管會在4月16號派哪一個層級的人過來音姐派一項來\n\n30\n00:10:02,455 --> 00:10:23,716\n我其實問過警管會甚至主委我講是說你銀行內部的東西你管得很好但是除了銀行以外的好像都是疑問三部或是說都是三部管理的完全沒有關係的事情能不能要求更高層級的人一起來開會我們在聯絡的時候我們會特別跟他們提醒\n\n31\n00:10:25,632 --> 00:10:43,994\n本席真的希望是完真的所以這是為什麼我肯定你有做的部分我肯定但沒做的部分我也要點出來讓大家看到其他部會還沒有跟上我真的認為說在這件事情上面衛福部相對來講有跑但其他部會沒有跟上大家還是覺得這是衛福部的事啊\n\n32\n00:10:45,424 --> 00:10:56,229\n推給衛福部啊,那反正520前部長大家都換一批啊,所以就看誰接下來要處理這個爛攤子。能夠做事我肯定,但我更希望是各部會都要跟上。謝謝。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6799\t8161\t來,主席謝謝,麻煩請薛部長。請薛部長\n14332\t42879\t委員好。好,部長好。部長上一次在兒少性剝削專報裡面我就提出來說應該要成立數位犯性犯罪的專責單位斬斷非法的金流以及建立兒少犯罪資料庫三個政策方向當時也獲得你這邊的一個承諾然後來去做所以4月19號本席也看到了你有召集司法院法務部、內政部、訴發部、NCC以及金管會來召開修法的方向對不對?對\n44179\t66955\t但是本席認為我們真的要玩真的以及真的要嚇阻犯罪的狀況還有最重要就是說我們要有效其實兩大方向一點簡化封網的流程跟主動搜尋相關網站以及金流那還有第二點是針對非法的金流要有效的嚇阻有效的阻斷\n68357\t79023\t來第一我先請教一下我們這邊在4月19號裡面有提到是說增訂相關機關運用網路科技主動偵查兒少性影像案件這個會由哪個機關來去做負責\n80543\t80643\t主責單位 。\n98981\t113313\t這部分的話我們目前的規劃是這樣子的因為這一個有一個科技偵查法現在在行政院他的主管機關應該是在內政部法務部是在法務部\n114013\t140188\t但是那個法要通過可能要有很長的一個時間所以現階段我們預計大概是會由衛福部來委託就是說委外來做辦理那當然要做封網這個動作的話屬於行政處分這還是衛福部必須要負責但是前面的這些用科技的方法來幫我們去做這種搜尋的話那我們是可以來委外來辦理\n141348\t159459\t衛福部委外部辦理為什麼本期認為說這很重要因為兒少性剝削如果說就這個案件來講所謂的這個私房啊這個私房一般人其實是不知道但它存在多久\n160299\t179658\t就媒體的報導他已經存在很久而且會員招收很多所以這有點類似說內行人一個牽一個一般社會大眾不知道但是有內行人專門管道一個牽一個那代表說這樣犯罪其實行之有年那如果說我們沒有主動的去偵查的話恐怕不是因為這一次有所謂的這個藝人的事件爆發\n180379\t207264\t我們還不知道說到底有受害多久所以這當然要主動去偵查所以主動的部分是由衛福部這邊來做預計多久會成立這樣的一個單位目前我們先有幾個步驟嘛第一個要先找這一個相關這方面領域的一些專家來討論也就是說我們那個招標的這個規格會用一個標案然後會去委託公司來去處理\n207944\t223683\t立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生福利部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、\n225325\t249619\t好,所以,看起來是部長有信心在卸任之前能夠有這樣的一個標案出來,是不是?是,我希望是可以做得到啦好,來,部長,那另外一個部分喔本席有提到是說金流很重要為什麼?殺頭的生意有人做賠錢的生意沒人做為什麼會有這麼多人明明知道說這是違法的但是他還去做,是因為五判級啦那怎麼樣\n250419\t272289\t把非法的金流給阻斷這很重要一個是非法金流阻斷另外一個就我加重你犯罪成本讓你知道說你賺這種黑心錢貪心錢你要付出一旦被抓到你要付出的成本很高那我請教在這一次裡面沒有召開兒童少年性剝削的這個修法方向的部分針對盈利或者是販售\n273513\t292075\t你們有沒有做討論?有那預計我們最高因為我們委員有好幾個我自己也有提出相關的手法版本那我們這個行政部門這邊預計如果說你是拿兒童性影像來去做盈利或販售的話我們現在期待最高要處多少的罰款跟多少的刑責\n294165\t303212\t我們行政單位建議本來的條文裡面意圖營利就是有加重處罰現在是我們這一次的修完我們的建議的條文裡面是要\n304437\t328380\t把這個付費者付費者這個部分的話也把它入法就是說要去處罰本席完全接受我也認為是說你有你去持有跟說你花錢去購買兒少性影像這個是完全不同的你是等於是你花錢購買這要加重處分但是一樣供給的部分本席在講嘛\n329000\t351377\t制毒跟販毒是一樣是一樣的這個刑責嗎?應該是要更嚴格的一個處罰嗎?那一樣我現在講的是說營利或者是說販售的話我們在這一次有沒有提出相關的?這一次倒沒有特別這個因為本來的條本來的條文就有加這種期限二分之一本來是一到七一年\n352157\t356901\t家暴零容忍-檢討112年家庭暴零容忍-檢討112年家庭暴零容忍-檢討112年家庭暴零容忍-檢討112年\n380939\t391492\t沒有講到任何關於怎麼樣阻斷非法金流有討論啦,但是但是你們今天提出來的部分沒有任何違法金流的一個阻斷\n393208\t416377\t所以我們現在在講的很多討論的很多都是講說我怎麼樣抓到我怎麼樣能夠讓他嚴刑立法但是現在的問題是不是抓不到他有可能他海外第一抓不到第二是他在海外持續有賺錢之前有很多的這種論壇有變形因為數位影像所以他複製很容易\n417017\t429509\t也因此今天封了A論壇他可能複製之後他直接再B換一個IP或是換一個這個架設又再上網那如果說我們等到查到然後我們再去封網他又換成C\n431385\t452219\t金流的部分怎麼樣阻斷?所以這一個部分為什麼我們那個19號討論的時候沒有結論的原因沒有結論沒有具體有討論但沒有結論是大家在互相拖拖因為在有一些技術上面的問題這個必須要相關的單位還繼續要去研議\n455121\t462287\t所以這部分的話我們這一次的那個建議的條文就沒有把它放進來的原因是在這個地方\n463513\t491676\t你這樣講啊本席打開天窗說亮話因為我覺得這個金流的部分就不應該只就衛福部一個部會這點本席站在客觀公允的高度本席剛剛也看了一下我們今天所有各部會的報告我也在拜託今天因為部會不是部長來所以我不要求你們上台但是真的請媒體朋友以及我們大家看直播的人也都看到\n493393\t510103\t你的內政部也是講有賴跨部會的合作意思是內政部、警政署配合啦你的訴發部配合主管、中央主管機關的指示\n511431\t538139\t你的金管會全力協助司法警察機關的偵辦這三個部會都在踢皮球我講實在話你踢我我踢你如果再這樣下去的話我們足球的產業可以蓬勃發展六年教育部推動我們的足球產業提升倒不如我們幾個部會大家多踢幾次皮球非常難看\n540205\t567032\t我真的講非常難看金流其實是非法集團他們引賴維生為什麼這些非法集團吹風吹又生斬草除不盡就是因為他們賺得了錢那如果我們還要放任我們的兒少性影像是變成是非法集團的賺錢工具的話我們任何一個國人都沒有辦法接受所以不好意思抱歉什麼時候還在開會會把金流的這個部分給納進來\n569035\t577486\t我想說我們可以再安排啦可以再安排是什麼時候?你剛剛很有尬子520前你要成立這個專責小組那520前能不能再開會\n579196\t597126\t讓大家看到是說到底是哪一個機關其實我說實在話金流沒有辦法阻斷你就很難保會有B會有C再出來明天我們有一個會啦那金管會也會再來我們會再提這一個案子能不能更要求金管會金管會在4月16號派哪一個層級的人過來音姐派一項來\n602455\t623716\t我其實問過警管會甚至主委我講是說你銀行內部的東西你管得很好但是除了銀行以外的好像都是疑問三部或是說都是三部管理的完全沒有關係的事情能不能要求更高層級的人一起來開會我們在聯絡的時候我們會特別跟他們提醒\n625632\t643994\t本席真的希望是完真的所以這是為什麼我肯定你有做的部分我肯定但沒做的部分我也要點出來讓大家看到其他部會還沒有跟上我真的認為說在這件事情上面衛福部相對來講有跑但其他部會沒有跟上大家還是覺得這是衛福部的事啊\n645424\t656229\t推給衛福部啊,那反正520前部長大家都換一批啊,所以就看誰接下來要處理這個爛攤子。能夠做事我肯定,但我更希望是各部會都要跟上。謝謝。\n","txt":"來,主席謝謝,麻煩請薛部長。請薛部長\n委員好。好,部長好。部長上一次在兒少性剝削專報裡面我就提出來說應該要成立數位犯性犯罪的專責單位斬斷非法的金流以及建立兒少犯罪資料庫三個政策方向當時也獲得你這邊的一個承諾然後來去做所以4月19號本席也看到了你有召集司法院法務部、內政部、訴發部、NCC以及金管會來召開修法的方向對不對?對\n但是本席認為我們真的要玩真的以及真的要嚇阻犯罪的狀況還有最重要就是說我們要有效其實兩大方向一點簡化封網的流程跟主動搜尋相關網站以及金流那還有第二點是針對非法的金流要有效的嚇阻有效的阻斷\n來第一我先請教一下我們這邊在4月19號裡面有提到是說增訂相關機關運用網路科技主動偵查兒少性影像案件這個會由哪個機關來去做負責\n主責單位 。\n這部分的話我們目前的規劃是這樣子的因為這一個有一個科技偵查法現在在行政院他的主管機關應該是在內政部法務部是在法務部\n但是那個法要通過可能要有很長的一個時間所以現階段我們預計大概是會由衛福部來委託就是說委外來做辦理那當然要做封網這個動作的話屬於行政處分這還是衛福部必須要負責但是前面的這些用科技的方法來幫我們去做這種搜尋的話那我們是可以來委外來辦理\n衛福部委外部辦理為什麼本期認為說這很重要因為兒少性剝削如果說就這個案件來講所謂的這個私房啊這個私房一般人其實是不知道但它存在多久\n就媒體的報導他已經存在很久而且會員招收很多所以這有點類似說內行人一個牽一個一般社會大眾不知道但是有內行人專門管道一個牽一個那代表說這樣犯罪其實行之有年那如果說我們沒有主動的去偵查的話恐怕不是因為這一次有所謂的這個藝人的事件爆發\n我們還不知道說到底有受害多久所以這當然要主動去偵查所以主動的部分是由衛福部這邊來做預計多久會成立這樣的一個單位目前我們先有幾個步驟嘛第一個要先找這一個相關這方面領域的一些專家來討論也就是說我們那個招標的這個規格會用一個標案然後會去委託公司來去處理\n立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生福利部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、\n好,所以,看起來是部長有信心在卸任之前能夠有這樣的一個標案出來,是不是?是,我希望是可以做得到啦好,來,部長,那另外一個部分喔本席有提到是說金流很重要為什麼?殺頭的生意有人做賠錢的生意沒人做為什麼會有這麼多人明明知道說這是違法的但是他還去做,是因為五判級啦那怎麼樣\n把非法的金流給阻斷這很重要一個是非法金流阻斷另外一個就我加重你犯罪成本讓你知道說你賺這種黑心錢貪心錢你要付出一旦被抓到你要付出的成本很高那我請教在這一次裡面沒有召開兒童少年性剝削的這個修法方向的部分針對盈利或者是販售\n你們有沒有做討論?有那預計我們最高因為我們委員有好幾個我自己也有提出相關的手法版本那我們這個行政部門這邊預計如果說你是拿兒童性影像來去做盈利或販售的話我們現在期待最高要處多少的罰款跟多少的刑責\n我們行政單位建議本來的條文裡面意圖營利就是有加重處罰現在是我們這一次的修完我們的建議的條文裡面是要\n把這個付費者付費者這個部分的話也把它入法就是說要去處罰本席完全接受我也認為是說你有你去持有跟說你花錢去購買兒少性影像這個是完全不同的你是等於是你花錢購買這要加重處分但是一樣供給的部分本席在講嘛\n制毒跟販毒是一樣是一樣的這個刑責嗎?應該是要更嚴格的一個處罰嗎?那一樣我現在講的是說營利或者是說販售的話我們在這一次有沒有提出相關的?這一次倒沒有特別這個因為本來的條本來的條文就有加這種期限二分之一本來是一到七一年\n家暴零容忍-檢討112年家庭暴零容忍-檢討112年家庭暴零容忍-檢討112年家庭暴零容忍-檢討112年\n沒有講到任何關於怎麼樣阻斷非法金流有討論啦,但是但是你們今天提出來的部分沒有任何違法金流的一個阻斷\n所以我們現在在講的很多討論的很多都是講說我怎麼樣抓到我怎麼樣能夠讓他嚴刑立法但是現在的問題是不是抓不到他有可能他海外第一抓不到第二是他在海外持續有賺錢之前有很多的這種論壇有變形因為數位影像所以他複製很容易\n也因此今天封了A論壇他可能複製之後他直接再B換一個IP或是換一個這個架設又再上網那如果說我們等到查到然後我們再去封網他又換成C\n金流的部分怎麼樣阻斷?所以這一個部分為什麼我們那個19號討論的時候沒有結論的原因沒有結論沒有具體有討論但沒有結論是大家在互相拖拖因為在有一些技術上面的問題這個必須要相關的單位還繼續要去研議\n所以這部分的話我們這一次的那個建議的條文就沒有把它放進來的原因是在這個地方\n你這樣講啊本席打開天窗說亮話因為我覺得這個金流的部分就不應該只就衛福部一個部會這點本席站在客觀公允的高度本席剛剛也看了一下我們今天所有各部會的報告我也在拜託今天因為部會不是部長來所以我不要求你們上台但是真的請媒體朋友以及我們大家看直播的人也都看到\n你的內政部也是講有賴跨部會的合作意思是內政部、警政署配合啦你的訴發部配合主管、中央主管機關的指示\n你的金管會全力協助司法警察機關的偵辦這三個部會都在踢皮球我講實在話你踢我我踢你如果再這樣下去的話我們足球的產業可以蓬勃發展六年教育部推動我們的足球產業提升倒不如我們幾個部會大家多踢幾次皮球非常難看\n我真的講非常難看金流其實是非法集團他們引賴維生為什麼這些非法集團吹風吹又生斬草除不盡就是因為他們賺得了錢那如果我們還要放任我們的兒少性影像是變成是非法集團的賺錢工具的話我們任何一個國人都沒有辦法接受所以不好意思抱歉什麼時候還在開會會把金流的這個部分給納進來\n我想說我們可以再安排啦可以再安排是什麼時候?你剛剛很有尬子520前你要成立這個專責小組那520前能不能再開會\n讓大家看到是說到底是哪一個機關其實我說實在話金流沒有辦法阻斷你就很難保會有B會有C再出來明天我們有一個會啦那金管會也會再來我們會再提這一個案子能不能更要求金管會金管會在4月16號派哪一個層級的人過來音姐派一項來\n我其實問過警管會甚至主委我講是說你銀行內部的東西你管得很好但是除了銀行以外的好像都是疑問三部或是說都是三部管理的完全沒有關係的事情能不能要求更高層級的人一起來開會我們在聯絡的時候我們會特別跟他們提醒\n本席真的希望是完真的所以這是為什麼我肯定你有做的部分我肯定但沒做的部分我也要點出來讓大家看到其他部會還沒有跟上我真的認為說在這件事情上面衛福部相對來講有跑但其他部會沒有跟上大家還是覺得這是衛福部的事啊\n推給衛福部啊,那反正520前部長大家都換一批啊,所以就看誰接下來要處理這個爛攤子。能夠做事我肯定,但我更希望是各部會都要跟上。謝謝。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.799 --> 00:08.161\n來,主席謝謝,麻煩請薛部長。請薛部長\n\n00:14.332 --> 00:42.879\n委員好。好,部長好。部長上一次在兒少性剝削專報裡面我就提出來說應該要成立數位犯性犯罪的專責單位斬斷非法的金流以及建立兒少犯罪資料庫三個政策方向當時也獲得你這邊的一個承諾然後來去做所以4月19號本席也看到了你有召集司法院法務部、內政部、訴發部、NCC以及金管會來召開修法的方向對不對?對\n\n00:44.179 --> 01:06.955\n但是本席認為我們真的要玩真的以及真的要嚇阻犯罪的狀況還有最重要就是說我們要有效其實兩大方向一點簡化封網的流程跟主動搜尋相關網站以及金流那還有第二點是針對非法的金流要有效的嚇阻有效的阻斷\n\n01:08.357 --> 01:19.023\n來第一我先請教一下我們這邊在4月19號裡面有提到是說增訂相關機關運用網路科技主動偵查兒少性影像案件這個會由哪個機關來去做負責\n\n01:20.543 --> 01:20.643\n主責單位。\n\n01:38.981 --> 01:53.313\n這部分的話我們目前的規劃是這樣子的因為這一個有一個科技偵查法現在在行政院他的主管機關應該是在內政部法務部是在法務部\n\n01:54.013 --> 02:20.188\n但是那個法要通過可能要有很長的一個時間所以現階段我們預計大概是會由衛福部來委託就是說委外來做辦理那當然要做封網這個動作的話屬於行政處分這還是衛福部必須要負責但是前面的這些用科技的方法來幫我們去做這種搜尋的話那我們是可以來委外來辦理\n\n02:21.348 --> 02:39.459\n衛福部委外部辦理為什麼本期認為說這很重要因為兒少性剝削如果說就這個案件來講所謂的這個私房啊這個私房一般人其實是不知道但它存在多久\n\n02:40.299 --> 02:59.658\n就媒體的報導他已經存在很久而且會員招收很多所以這有點類似說內行人一個牽一個一般社會大眾不知道但是有內行人專門管道一個牽一個那代表說這樣犯罪其實行之有年那如果說我們沒有主動的去偵查的話恐怕不是因為這一次有所謂的這個藝人的事件爆發\n\n03:00.379 --> 03:27.264\n我們還不知道說到底有受害多久所以這當然要主動去偵查所以主動的部分是由衛福部這邊來做預計多久會成立這樣的一個單位目前我們先有幾個步驟嘛第一個要先找這一個相關這方面領域的一些專家來討論也就是說我們那個招標的這個規格會用一個標案然後會去委託公司來去處理\n\n03:27.944 --> 03:43.683\n立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生福利部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、\n\n03:45.325 --> 04:09.619\n好,所以,看起來是部長有信心在卸任之前能夠有這樣的一個標案出來,是不是?是,我希望是可以做得到啦好,來,部長,那另外一個部分喔本席有提到是說金流很重要為什麼?殺頭的生意有人做賠錢的生意沒人做為什麼會有這麼多人明明知道說這是違法的但是他還去做,是因為五判級啦那怎麼樣\n\n04:10.419 --> 04:32.289\n把非法的金流給阻斷這很重要一個是非法金流阻斷另外一個就我加重你犯罪成本讓你知道說你賺這種黑心錢貪心錢你要付出一旦被抓到你要付出的成本很高那我請教在這一次裡面沒有召開兒童少年性剝削的這個修法方向的部分針對盈利或者是販售\n\n04:33.513 --> 04:52.075\n你們有沒有做討論?有那預計我們最高因為我們委員有好幾個我自己也有提出相關的手法版本那我們這個行政部門這邊預計如果說你是拿兒童性影像來去做盈利或販售的話我們現在期待最高要處多少的罰款跟多少的刑責\n\n04:54.165 --> 05:03.212\n我們行政單位建議本來的條文裡面意圖營利就是有加重處罰現在是我們這一次的修完我們的建議的條文裡面是要\n\n05:04.437 --> 05:28.380\n把這個付費者付費者這個部分的話也把它入法就是說要去處罰本席完全接受我也認為是說你有你去持有跟說你花錢去購買兒少性影像這個是完全不同的你是等於是你花錢購買這要加重處分但是一樣供給的部分本席在講嘛\n\n05:29.000 --> 05:51.377\n制毒跟販毒是一樣是一樣的這個刑責嗎?應該是要更嚴格的一個處罰嗎?那一樣我現在講的是說營利或者是說販售的話我們在這一次有沒有提出相關的?這一次倒沒有特別這個因為本來的條本來的條文就有加這種期限二分之一本來是一到七一年\n\n05:52.157 --> 05:56.901\n家暴零容忍-檢討112年家庭暴零容忍-檢討112年家庭暴零容忍-檢討112年家庭暴零容忍-檢討112年\n\n06:20.939 --> 06:31.492\n沒有講到任何關於怎麼樣阻斷非法金流有討論啦,但是但是你們今天提出來的部分沒有任何違法金流的一個阻斷\n\n06:33.208 --> 06:56.377\n所以我們現在在講的很多討論的很多都是講說我怎麼樣抓到我怎麼樣能夠讓他嚴刑立法但是現在的問題是不是抓不到他有可能他海外第一抓不到第二是他在海外持續有賺錢之前有很多的這種論壇有變形因為數位影像所以他複製很容易\n\n06:57.017 --> 07:09.509\n也因此今天封了A論壇他可能複製之後他直接再B換一個IP或是換一個這個架設又再上網那如果說我們等到查到然後我們再去封網他又換成C\n\n07:11.385 --> 07:32.219\n金流的部分怎麼樣阻斷?所以這一個部分為什麼我們那個19號討論的時候沒有結論的原因沒有結論沒有具體有討論但沒有結論是大家在互相拖拖因為在有一些技術上面的問題這個必須要相關的單位還繼續要去研議\n\n07:35.121 --> 07:42.287\n所以這部分的話我們這一次的那個建議的條文就沒有把它放進來的原因是在這個地方\n\n07:43.513 --> 08:11.676\n你這樣講啊本席打開天窗說亮話因為我覺得這個金流的部分就不應該只就衛福部一個部會這點本席站在客觀公允的高度本席剛剛也看了一下我們今天所有各部會的報告我也在拜託今天因為部會不是部長來所以我不要求你們上台但是真的請媒體朋友以及我們大家看直播的人也都看到\n\n08:13.393 --> 08:30.103\n你的內政部也是講有賴跨部會的合作意思是內政部、警政署配合啦你的訴發部配合主管、中央主管機關的指示\n\n08:31.431 --> 08:58.139\n你的金管會全力協助司法警察機關的偵辦這三個部會都在踢皮球我講實在話你踢我我踢你如果再這樣下去的話我們足球的產業可以蓬勃發展六年教育部推動我們的足球產業提升倒不如我們幾個部會大家多踢幾次皮球非常難看\n\n09:00.205 --> 09:27.032\n我真的講非常難看金流其實是非法集團他們引賴維生為什麼這些非法集團吹風吹又生斬草除不盡就是因為他們賺得了錢那如果我們還要放任我們的兒少性影像是變成是非法集團的賺錢工具的話我們任何一個國人都沒有辦法接受所以不好意思抱歉什麼時候還在開會會把金流的這個部分給納進來\n\n09:29.035 --> 09:37.486\n我想說我們可以再安排啦可以再安排是什麼時候?你剛剛很有尬子520前你要成立這個專責小組那520前能不能再開會\n\n09:39.196 --> 09:57.126\n讓大家看到是說到底是哪一個機關其實我說實在話金流沒有辦法阻斷你就很難保會有B會有C再出來明天我們有一個會啦那金管會也會再來我們會再提這一個案子能不能更要求金管會金管會在4月16號派哪一個層級的人過來音姐派一項來\n\n10:02.455 --> 10:23.716\n我其實問過警管會甚至主委我講是說你銀行內部的東西你管得很好但是除了銀行以外的好像都是疑問三部或是說都是三部管理的完全沒有關係的事情能不能要求更高層級的人一起來開會我們在聯絡的時候我們會特別跟他們提醒\n\n10:25.632 --> 10:43.994\n本席真的希望是完真的所以這是為什麼我肯定你有做的部分我肯定但沒做的部分我也要點出來讓大家看到其他部會還沒有跟上我真的認為說在這件事情上面衛福部相對來講有跑但其他部會沒有跟上大家還是覺得這是衛福部的事啊\n\n10:45.424 --> 10:56.229\n推給衛福部啊,那反正520前部長大家都換一批啊,所以就看誰接下來要處理這個爛攤子。能夠做事我肯定,但我更希望是各部會都要跟上。謝謝。\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.799,"end":8.161,"text":"來,主席謝謝,麻煩請薛部長。請薛部長"},{"start":14.332,"end":42.879,"text":"委員好。好,部長好。部長上一次在兒少性剝削專報裡面我就提出來說應該要成立數位犯性犯罪的專責單位斬斷非法的金流以及建立兒少犯罪資料庫三個政策方向當時也獲得你這邊的一個承諾然後來去做所以4月19號本席也看到了你有召集司法院法務部、內政部、訴發部、NCC以及金管會來召開修法的方向對不對?對"},{"start":44.179,"end":66.955,"text":"但是本席認為我們真的要玩真的以及真的要嚇阻犯罪的狀況還有最重要就是說我們要有效其實兩大方向一點簡化封網的流程跟主動搜尋相關網站以及金流那還有第二點是針對非法的金流要有效的嚇阻有效的阻斷"},{"start":68.357,"end":79.023,"text":"來第一我先請教一下我們這邊在4月19號裡面有提到是說增訂相關機關運用網路科技主動偵查兒少性影像案件這個會由哪個機關來去做負責"},{"start":80.543,"end":80.643,"text":"主責單位 。"},{"start":98.981,"end":113.313,"text":"這部分的話我們目前的規劃是這樣子的因為這一個有一個科技偵查法現在在行政院他的主管機關應該是在內政部法務部是在法務部"},{"start":114.013,"end":140.188,"text":"但是那個法要通過可能要有很長的一個時間所以現階段我們預計大概是會由衛福部來委託就是說委外來做辦理那當然要做封網這個動作的話屬於行政處分這還是衛福部必須要負責但是前面的這些用科技的方法來幫我們去做這種搜尋的話那我們是可以來委外來辦理"},{"start":141.348,"end":159.459,"text":"衛福部委外部辦理為什麼本期認為說這很重要因為兒少性剝削如果說就這個案件來講所謂的這個私房啊這個私房一般人其實是不知道但它存在多久"},{"start":160.299,"end":179.658,"text":"就媒體的報導他已經存在很久而且會員招收很多所以這有點類似說內行人一個牽一個一般社會大眾不知道但是有內行人專門管道一個牽一個那代表說這樣犯罪其實行之有年那如果說我們沒有主動的去偵查的話恐怕不是因為這一次有所謂的這個藝人的事件爆發"},{"start":180.379,"end":207.264,"text":"我們還不知道說到底有受害多久所以這當然要主動去偵查所以主動的部分是由衛福部這邊來做預計多久會成立這樣的一個單位目前我們先有幾個步驟嘛第一個要先找這一個相關這方面領域的一些專家來討論也就是說我們那個招標的這個規格會用一個標案然後會去委託公司來去處理"},{"start":207.944,"end":223.683,"text":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生福利部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、"},{"start":225.325,"end":249.619,"text":"好,所以,看起來是部長有信心在卸任之前能夠有這樣的一個標案出來,是不是?是,我希望是可以做得到啦好,來,部長,那另外一個部分喔本席有提到是說金流很重要為什麼?殺頭的生意有人做賠錢的生意沒人做為什麼會有這麼多人明明知道說這是違法的但是他還去做,是因為五判級啦那怎麼樣"},{"start":250.419,"end":272.289,"text":"把非法的金流給阻斷這很重要一個是非法金流阻斷另外一個就我加重你犯罪成本讓你知道說你賺這種黑心錢貪心錢你要付出一旦被抓到你要付出的成本很高那我請教在這一次裡面沒有召開兒童少年性剝削的這個修法方向的部分針對盈利或者是販售"},{"start":273.513,"end":292.075,"text":"你們有沒有做討論?有那預計我們最高因為我們委員有好幾個我自己也有提出相關的手法版本那我們這個行政部門這邊預計如果說你是拿兒童性影像來去做盈利或販售的話我們現在期待最高要處多少的罰款跟多少的刑責"},{"start":294.165,"end":303.212,"text":"我們行政單位建議本來的條文裡面意圖營利就是有加重處罰現在是我們這一次的修完我們的建議的條文裡面是要"},{"start":304.437,"end":328.38,"text":"把這個付費者付費者這個部分的話也把它入法就是說要去處罰本席完全接受我也認為是說你有你去持有跟說你花錢去購買兒少性影像這個是完全不同的你是等於是你花錢購買這要加重處分但是一樣供給的部分本席在講嘛"},{"start":329,"end":351.377,"text":"制毒跟販毒是一樣是一樣的這個刑責嗎?應該是要更嚴格的一個處罰嗎?那一樣我現在講的是說營利或者是說販售的話我們在這一次有沒有提出相關的?這一次倒沒有特別這個因為本來的條本來的條文就有加這種期限二分之一本來是一到七一年"},{"start":352.157,"end":356.901,"text":"家暴零容忍-檢討112年家庭暴零容忍-檢討112年家庭暴零容忍-檢討112年家庭暴零容忍-檢討112年"},{"start":380.939,"end":391.492,"text":"沒有講到任何關於怎麼樣阻斷非法金流有討論啦,但是但是你們今天提出來的部分沒有任何違法金流的一個阻斷"},{"start":393.208,"end":416.377,"text":"所以我們現在在講的很多討論的很多都是講說我怎麼樣抓到我怎麼樣能夠讓他嚴刑立法但是現在的問題是不是抓不到他有可能他海外第一抓不到第二是他在海外持續有賺錢之前有很多的這種論壇有變形因為數位影像所以他複製很容易"},{"start":417.017,"end":429.509,"text":"也因此今天封了A論壇他可能複製之後他直接再B換一個IP或是換一個這個架設又再上網那如果說我們等到查到然後我們再去封網他又換成C"},{"start":431.385,"end":452.219,"text":"金流的部分怎麼樣阻斷?所以這一個部分為什麼我們那個19號討論的時候沒有結論的原因沒有結論沒有具體有討論但沒有結論是大家在互相拖拖因為在有一些技術上面的問題這個必須要相關的單位還繼續要去研議"},{"start":455.121,"end":462.287,"text":"所以這部分的話我們這一次的那個建議的條文就沒有把它放進來的原因是在這個地方"},{"start":463.513,"end":491.676,"text":"你這樣講啊本席打開天窗說亮話因為我覺得這個金流的部分就不應該只就衛福部一個部會這點本席站在客觀公允的高度本席剛剛也看了一下我們今天所有各部會的報告我也在拜託今天因為部會不是部長來所以我不要求你們上台但是真的請媒體朋友以及我們大家看直播的人也都看到"},{"start":493.393,"end":510.103,"text":"你的內政部也是講有賴跨部會的合作意思是內政部、警政署配合啦你的訴發部配合主管、中央主管機關的指示"},{"start":511.431,"end":538.139,"text":"你的金管會全力協助司法警察機關的偵辦這三個部會都在踢皮球我講實在話你踢我我踢你如果再這樣下去的話我們足球的產業可以蓬勃發展六年教育部推動我們的足球產業提升倒不如我們幾個部會大家多踢幾次皮球非常難看"},{"start":540.205,"end":567.032,"text":"我真的講非常難看金流其實是非法集團他們引賴維生為什麼這些非法集團吹風吹又生斬草除不盡就是因為他們賺得了錢那如果我們還要放任我們的兒少性影像是變成是非法集團的賺錢工具的話我們任何一個國人都沒有辦法接受所以不好意思抱歉什麼時候還在開會會把金流的這個部分給納進來"},{"start":569.035,"end":577.486,"text":"我想說我們可以再安排啦可以再安排是什麼時候?你剛剛很有尬子520前你要成立這個專責小組那520前能不能再開會"},{"start":579.196,"end":597.126,"text":"讓大家看到是說到底是哪一個機關其實我說實在話金流沒有辦法阻斷你就很難保會有B會有C再出來明天我們有一個會啦那金管會也會再來我們會再提這一個案子能不能更要求金管會金管會在4月16號派哪一個層級的人過來音姐派一項來"},{"start":602.455,"end":623.716,"text":"我其實問過警管會甚至主委我講是說你銀行內部的東西你管得很好但是除了銀行以外的好像都是疑問三部或是說都是三部管理的完全沒有關係的事情能不能要求更高層級的人一起來開會我們在聯絡的時候我們會特別跟他們提醒"},{"start":625.632,"end":643.994,"text":"本席真的希望是完真的所以這是為什麼我肯定你有做的部分我肯定但沒做的部分我也要點出來讓大家看到其他部會還沒有跟上我真的認為說在這件事情上面衛福部相對來講有跑但其他部會沒有跟上大家還是覺得這是衛福部的事啊"},{"start":645.424,"end":656.229,"text":"推給衛福部啊,那反正520前部長大家都換一批啊,所以就看誰接下來要處理這個爛攤子。能夠做事我肯定,但我更希望是各部會都要跟上。謝謝。"}]}}}}