{"id":151721,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151721","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/37a05b44d500ce15fc0d92f74a034e8220df1bb4ac2af973c68e374cd8c4bed03f3c00194d6c03235ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"柯志恩","委員發言時間":"09:21:31 - 09:34:26","影片長度":"00:12:55","會議時間":"2024-04-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請文化部次長列席就「跨族群、跨平台、跨語言兒少服務計畫—公視第3台轉型兒少頻道」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n(4月24日及25日二天一次會)）","date":"2024-04-25","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-9"},"duration":775,"end_time":"2024-04-25T09:34:26+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-25T09:21:31+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":100,"blocks":[["柯委員志恩：（9時21分）謝謝主席，先請公視胡董事長。"],["主席：有請胡董事長。"],["胡董事長元輝：委員好。"],["柯委員志恩：董事長好。2006年7月1號由公視跟華視組成公廣集團，你那時候是公視的總經理，而我們新任的文化部長小野是華視的總經理，你們一起出席了揭牌儀式，我還記得非常的清楚，那時候小野還滿高興的說，我們希望華視跟公視的結合，就好像是三十五歲的老娘嫁給小八歲的小新郎一樣，希望老蚌生珠可以生出好的結果，這段對話你應該很清楚。結果沒想到九個月之後，小野的總經理夢碎，然後他就黯然離去，而且他那時候還特別提到華視已經是四不像，完全是不歡而散。我不曉得十七、八年之後，你們重逢之後，你對於小野部長整頓公廣集團有沒有信心？"],["胡董事長元輝：謝謝委員，過去的確有機會跟未來的這位文化部長有過一些共事的經驗，我相信他對於公共媒體的現況及未來發展都很瞭解，我有信心他應該會來支持公共媒體的發展。"],["柯委員志恩：所以十八年這是一個很好的緣分，但是我們還是要就事論事，因為你從111年8月到任華視，說實在的，十八年來進入這樣一個機構當中，華視已經虧損了40億，你111年到任的時候我們不用去算，但112年應該是你完整的一整年，我可不可以瞭解一下112年為什麼比111年更擴大虧損了1億，總共虧損了2.4億，到底是什麼樣的問題？"],["胡董事長元輝：我用最簡單的部分跟委員報告，第一個部分就是因為華視有了一個新聞頻道，針對新聞頻道普及率的增加，在NCC當年有承諾人事費必須增加。第二個是我們覺得華視在最近這幾年來投資內容的部分不足，所以在……"],["柯委員志恩：所以你已經很清楚這個緣故了，但是對我個人來說的話，其實我都還沒有列進去有關於華視的房租挹注，這是其他臺沒有的，我想臺視應該非常慶幸他們到目前為止並沒有進入公廣集團，而且他們現在已經轉虧為盈了，可是看看華視，過去在我那個年代是一個戲劇王國，沒想到十八年來華視虧損了40億，如果你把房租放進去的話，搞不好你的虧損都要到五億多了。不好意思，董事長，我還是希望你在近期之內能夠針對擴大虧損這個部分，提出一個說明給本席好不好？我覺得這是一個非常重要的問題。"],["胡董事長元輝：沒有問題。"],["柯委員志恩：謝謝，接下來請王次長。"],["主席：請王次長。"],["柯委員志恩：謝謝胡董事長，你可以回座了。針對其他部分，只要有涉及的就請大家一起來回應好了。次長，我相信你今天是加碼6億給公視，我覺得這還是有年代的差別，洪孟楷委員說他們家小孩子是看波力，我記得我家小孩那時候看的是公視引進的天線寶寶，我還幫它當過代言，這就表示世代的差距，但不管怎麼樣，水果奶奶都還在，只是現在過了這麼久，他已經變成阿祖了，可是問題在於公視還是只有水果奶奶當作是一個最大的指標。我們來看看兒少的節目到底有沒有辦法來製作，你給我的資料當中是有6億的分配，我不曉得部長是不是有充分掌握資源的分配，你看針對這6億，只有短短幾個字的說明，我必須要瞭解，因為你們目前為止不是新設的一個頻道，只是一種轉型，等於是換了一個招牌，而內容的部分，公視節目幾乎都是外包的，那你這個人事費4,300萬到底是怎麼來的？你們不都是外包的嗎？你都有現有的人力了啊，為什麼？然後你們行銷要一億多！針對這些經費，只有短短幾個字，請問誰能夠告訴我正確的部分到底是如何？而且你看基本營運費要2,000萬，這個用途到底在哪裡？有沒有辦法請誰來說明一下？"],["王次長時思：我想詳細的部分還是請公視來說明，不過還是跟委員報告，就是在整體的產製跟行銷上，仍然需要新增的人力，公視並沒有……"],["柯委員志恩：4,300萬耶！"],["王次長時思：我是說在整體的行銷宣傳上，它其實並不是……"],["柯委員志恩：那你先告訴我4,300萬的人事費是怎麼花的？你本來就有人了，你都是外包啊！"],["王次長時思：包括節目製作的本身啦，包括外包……"],["柯委員志恩：但你是把它放在人事費用裡面，節目製作怎麼可以放在人事費用裡面啊？"],["王次長時思：沒問題，我想先請公視就這個部分的人事費用……"],["柯委員志恩：等一下再一併回答，如果無法在限定時間之內回答，請都給我書面資料或到我辦公室來解釋，以文化部來說的話，文化部對於公視就好像是自己的親生兒子，對於華視好像養女一樣，你們的對待真的是完全不公平的，像華視就是有附負擔捐贈，只要2.3億你們都不給。"],["王次長時思：但是華視也有補助，我們還是有補助製作節目的經費。"],["柯委員志恩：但是到目前為止，針對整個華視的部分，他們的附負擔捐贈只要2.3億，你們為什麼都不願意去給？這些等一下都請你一併來回答……"],["王次長時思：但是我們對華視的補助應該已經有超過5億了。"],["柯委員志恩：你等一下一併來回答，這些經費不能只有針對幾個給我說明，我等一下會給兒少平臺一個機會來說明，然後我還是要瞭解到底目前兒少的TA在哪裡，你剛剛告訴我有好幾個不同的階段，但是……"],["王次長時思：不同年齡層。"],["柯委員志恩：次長，你知道以目前來說的話，東森幼幼臺平常的市占率是多少嗎？"],["王次長時思：其實文策院這邊有做過調查的報告，我想數字的部分，可能要稍等我調一下。"],["柯委員志恩：我馬上告訴你，50%以上，假日大概是45%，你們做過這個部分啊！"],["王次長時思：是，有做過這一類的瞭解，其實在整個自製的節目上……"],["柯委員志恩：我就說這6億砸下去，我肯定要有這個平臺，可是錢要花在刀口上，而且你剛剛有特別提到，它的TA是從學齡前的兩歲，還有到國中，還有到十八歲以下，你們有不同的平臺。"],["王次長時思：到十八歲，對。"],["柯委員志恩：你覺得青少年跟國中生都會去看你們這些電視嗎？"],["王次長時思：其實要看節目的類型，譬如以青少年來說，像親職棚內的座談，或者是實境，或者是解謎遊戲，其實他們是滿喜歡的。"],["柯委員志恩：他們滿喜歡？好，那……"],["王次長時思：其實會有年齡層的差異。"],["柯委員志恩：當然有差別，你可不可以給我舉幾個你所瞭解的頻道，所謂知己知彼，你可不可以告訴我適合青少年的優質頻道現在有哪一些？我們來比一下。"],["王次長時思：其實在公視裡面有滿多節目適合青少年……"],["柯委員志恩：不要說公視，我要知道其他外面的，我剛才說過知己知彼，你知道其他在外面有哪一些頻道是青少年喜歡的、很優質的？"],["王次長時思：我想有一些像音樂節目，青少年應該也是會非常喜歡。"],["柯委員志恩：音樂節目？Spotify就可以啦！"],["王次長時思：我說的是節目的製作啦！"],["柯委員志恩：還有什麼？"],["王次長時思：像大嘻哈，我想大家應該都很歡迎。"],["柯委員志恩：還有呢？我現在只能告訴你，要瞭解外面的市場到哪裡，我們TA的設定到底有沒有它的必要性。我告訴你，這些全部都是，你所設定不同階層的TA所知道的，然後我也看到你們特別提到給學齡前兒童的多元性不足，你們認為因為多元性不足，你們希望能夠累積屬於臺灣兒少的本土故事，我也同意有本土故事，問題是你們有沒有辦法做出能夠吸引大家的，否則為什麼每個人都要到Disney去朝聖？就是……"],["王次長時思：所以這是一個起點，我想兒少頻道是一個起點。"],["柯委員志恩：孩子根本不管你是什麼本土、國外的，只要你能夠吸引他就可以，問題是以過去公視所提供的績效，到底有沒有辦法說服大家？你的平臺、你的閱看率到底有沒有辦法？到底你的九大節目的開發有沒有辦法真真正正讓我們的影視人才續留？我們來看一個非常嚴重的問題，在這6億當中，你們現在不斷的有很多的決標，你們都是外包，我都看得出來，目前來說有很多決標，這是我稍微條列出來的，目前決標的公司有哪一些是有口碑、有擅長兒童節目的？有哪一些可以講得出來嗎？你們要不要來救一下次長？有哪一些公司可以……"],["王次長時思：我會請公視詳細說明，但還是要跟委員說明，這是一個起點，兒少頻道是從今年、現在才要開始，所以也希望委員可以給公視一個機會。"],["柯委員志恩：我們可以給予支持，但我們還是要看過去公視這樣子的績效，我查了一下在這些決標、得標的公司裡面，有些資本額很小才100萬，有些是1,000萬；有些是沒有什麼得獎作品，也沒有做過什麼兒少節目；有些成立不久，有些甚至連標案都很少。我告訴你有一家去年5月只有得標570萬的採購案，還有這一次徵案2月的時候決標了910萬，它只有做公視節目2個，而且這家公司的營業除了電影製作、廣告、提供場地之外，還有仲介服務！我就不曉得這樣的部分到底是如何。"],["王次長時思：委員，我想這樣更證明其實在民間產製量能的不足，這也是為什麼需要公視投入的原因。"],["柯委員志恩：產量不足，但是這樣的公司有沒有辦法產製出什麼？"],["王次長時思：所以包括孵育跟合製……"],["柯委員志恩：次長，為什麼我要特別這樣去講，原因是你們的KPI我沒有看到，我沒有看到你們的KPI到底是如何，就像我剛剛說的，從過去到現在公視或許非常有心，可是製作節目的普及度、普遍度，從你們給我的資料看來，我需要畫上一個問號，我沒有懷疑你們製作的決心，只是你們的能耐、capacity到底有沒有辦法達到這個地方……"],["王次長時思：應該是整體市場的量能的確有不足……"],["柯委員志恩：我隨便舉個例子來說好了，目前公視長期要被檢討，像2021年本來文化部是用10億委託中央社做TaiwanPlus，對不對？本來預訂有100萬的下載數，結果只有5.5萬，所以你們就把它拿給……連駐臺的外媒都認為少得很可憐，所以你們現在把它變成由公視主導，本來是大外宣，現在變大內宣，然後呢，不好意思，次長……"],["王次長時思：TaiwanPlus現在已經在包括北美、新加坡、馬來西亞的落地其實都有一定的成績。"],["柯委員志恩：你來看看你給我的資料，次長，你相不相信？你們當初還請僑委會等等之類的。你給我的資料是說九成都是國際觀眾，有美國、菲律賓。然後你來看看你給我的觀看次數，8月的時候增加了200萬，我用一個月、單月去看，3月增加了500萬，好了，到了2023年，TaiwanPlus的觀看次數在這個月當中竟然有一千多萬，你相信嗎？"],["王次長時思：基本上要看新聞事件及節目來決定它點閱的流量……"],["柯委員志恩：一千多萬，對不起，次長，你看看TaiwanPlus從成立到現在三年多，Taiwan Plus光是在YouTube的總觀看次數只有300萬次，你現在告訴我一個月可以到一千多萬，這個流量到底怎麼樣計算的？一個月一千多萬次，次長，你相信嗎？我把這些全部加起來，我甚至調出12個月份的東西全部加起來，才22.9萬，但是你每個月的觀看次數到1,000萬，這個次數也未免灌水得太嚴重了吧！"],["王次長時思：委員，那不可能是灌水，我想那應該是計算基礎的問題。"],["柯委員志恩：好，不會有問題，我們也很知道後臺的計算到底怎麼樣。回到剛剛那個次數來說，請你很清楚地告訴我，一個月當中是用這樣的方法，你們的官方在最重要的YouTube頻道只有三百多萬人次，全部加起來一個月裡面可以一千多萬人次，新聞點……"],["王次長時思：但它是看次數，算那個流量……"],["柯委員志恩：好，沒關係，我也是用次數，我也都用次數啊！"],["王次長時思：而且它是有新聞事件，像那一年因為蔡總統的出訪，那一個月就非常地暴增……"],["柯委員志恩：暴增也不會到一千多萬，好不好？最多的人次你上去點看看，你們的人員現在一個、一個上去點看看，不管怎麼樣，請到我辦公室……"],["王次長時思：我會給委員……"],["柯委員志恩：或用任何方法給我解釋這些流量是怎麼出來的，我會嚴格地看。"],["王次長時思：我會給委員資料來補充。"],["柯委員志恩：因為我們從後臺來看是完全不太可能。我們要面對問題，雖然你們花了非常多的錢，但是我也不希望給我這樣的次數去看待……"],["王次長時思：那個次數是據實統計，我們再給委員做補充的資料……"],["柯委員志恩：據實統計，告訴我是怎麼樣算出來，每一筆告訴我是怎麼算出來的，還有包括你那個6億是怎麼樣分配，包括人事分配、經營分配，我們都要看得很清楚……"],["王次長時思：好，我們再給委員資料。"],["柯委員志恩：我們不希望一個這麼好的頻道，都還是被當作實驗的性質。公視不斷地叫窮，但是我們要問，你的資源分配、實際的效應、KPI有沒有達到我們當初的期望，這是最重要的，所以我要求必須把這個流量、你們的經費很詳細地告訴我到底是怎麼一回事，可以嗎？"],["王次長時思：我會給委員資料，沒有問題。"],["柯委員志恩：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝柯志恩召委，次長請回。","接下來請萬美玲委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":374,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-9","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","柯志恩","萬美玲","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","吳沛憶","張雅琳","吳春城","葉元之","陳培瑜","何欣純","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","麥玉珍","范雲","羅廷瑋","林倩綺","林月琴","陳冠廷","羅智強"],"page_start":309,"meetingDate":["2024-04-25"],"gazette_id":"1133301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133301_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請文化部次長列席就「跨族群、跨平台、跨語言兒少服務計畫─ 公視第3台轉型兒少頻道」進\n行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1133301_00005"}},"transcript":{"id":"151721","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151721","tool":"pyannote","id":"151721-pyannote"},"job_id":"YBFhXWfHYxRFU9VW","queued_at":"2024-05-31 17:55:05","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 17:55:05","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151721"},{"time":"2024-05-31 17:55:06","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/37a05b44d500ce15fc0d92f74a034e8220df1bb4ac2af97318019a0b70fe733b123254f0538377ef5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-05-31 17:55:31","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-05-31 17:55:34","msg":"running 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\"end\": 405.497, \"text\": \"啊,Spotify那種就可以啦!所以說,還有什麼?還有呢?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 402.736, \"end\": 402.836, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"S\", \"start\": 402.836, \"end\": 402.996, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"p\", \"start\": 402.996, \"end\": 403.096, \"score\": 0.776}, {\"word\": \"o\", \"start\": 403.096, \"end\": 403.116, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"t\", \"start\": 403.116, \"end\": 403.136, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"i\", \"start\": 403.136, \"end\": 403.256, \"score\": 0.531}, {\"word\": \"f\", \"start\": 403.256, \"end\": 403.276, \"score\": 0.412}, {\"word\": \"y\", \"start\": 403.276, \"end\": 403.596, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 403.596, \"end\": 403.816, \"score\": 0.496}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 403.816, \"end\": 403.936, \"score\": 0.551}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 403.936, \"end\": 404.076, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 404.076, \"end\": 404.216, \"score\": 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\"end\": 527.276, \"text\": \"二月的時候絕報了910萬他只有做公視節目兩個而且呢這家公司的營業除了電影製作之外廣告提供場地還有仲介服務我就不曉得這樣子的部分到底是如何我想這樣更證明其實在民間的產製的量能的不足這也是為什麼需要公視討論的原因產量不足但是這樣的一個公司有沒有辦法產製出什麼部分因為為什麼次長我要特別去這樣去講\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 520.891, \"end\": 521.131, \"score\": 0.605}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 521.131, \"end\": 521.251, \"score\": 0.584}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 521.251, \"end\": 521.271, \"score\": 0.02}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 521.271, \"end\": 521.291, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"絕\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 521.291, \"end\": 521.371, \"score\": 0.27}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 521.371, \"end\": 521.391, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 521.391, \"end\": 521.471, \"score\": 0.733}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 521.471, \"end\": 521.491, \"score\": 0.005}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 521.491, \"end\": 521.512, \"score\": 0.0}, 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00:01:03,812\n希望老棒生出可以生出好的結果對吧這段對話你應該很清楚就沒想到九個月之後呢我們的小野這個總經理夢碎然後他就淦然離去而且他那時候還特別提到的華視已經是四不像了然後呢完全也就是不歡而散我不曉得十七八年之後你們再重新的重逢之後你對於這個小野這個部長整頓公廣集團你有沒有信心\n\n4\n00:01:06,274 --> 00:01:21,370\n謝謝委員我想過去的確有機會跟這個未來的文化部長有過一些共識的一些經驗那我相信他對公共媒體的現況跟未來發展都很了解我應該有信心他會來支持公共媒體\n\n5\n00:01:21,630 --> 00:01:25,232\n所以18年這是一個很好的緣份但是我們還是要就事論事因為你從118年8月到到任華氏說實在的18年來進入這樣一個機構當中華氏已經虧損了40億那你118年到任的時候我們不用去算但是112年應該是你完整的一整年那我可不可以了解一下112為什麼比111更虧損擴大虧損的1億\n\n6\n00:01:49,226 --> 00:02:12,274\n總共虧損2.4億到底是什麼樣的一個問題用最簡單的部分跟委員報告第一個部分就是因為這個華視有了一個新聞頻道那這個新聞頻道的普及率的增加在NCC當年有承諾人事費必須增加第二個是我們覺得整個過去的華視在最近這幾年來投資內容的部分不足所以\n\n7\n00:02:12,614 --> 00:02:17,376\n所以你已經很清楚這個緣故了但是對我個人來說的話華氏我說實在也非常多的我都還沒有列進去有關於這個華氏的這個房租的挹注這是其他台沒有的我想台是應該非常的慶幸他們目前為止他們並沒有進入公廣集團而且他們現在已經轉虧為盈了可是看看華氏過去在我那個年代是一個戲劇王國沒想到18年華氏虧損40億如果你把這個房租放進去的話\n\n8\n00:02:41,184 --> 00:02:41,344\n王次長\n\n9\n00:02:59,621 --> 00:03:16,572\n謝謝胡董事長可以回去然後我不知道其他部分只要有部分就請大家一起來做一個回應好了那次長我相信你今天是加碼6億給公視我覺得這還是有年代的一個差別那個洪孟凱說他們家小孩子看玻璃玻璃我記得我家小孩看的時候那時候是公視引進的天線寶寶\n\n10\n00:03:17,873 --> 00:03:40,124\n我還幫助他當作代言所以這就表示這個世代的差距但不管怎麼樣水果奶奶都還在只是現在過這麼久他已經被阿祖了可是問題公視還是只有水果奶奶當作是一個最大的一個指標所以我們來看看這個兒少的節目到底有沒有辦法來做到你給我的資料當中是有6億的分配我不曉得部長你是不是有充分的掌握他的這個資源的一個分配你看6億當中\n\n11\n00:03:41,445 --> 00:03:48,730\n我必須要了解短短的幾個字我必須要了解因為你們目前為止不是新設的一個頻道只是一種轉型而且等於換了一個招牌那你內容公視的節目幾乎都是外包的那你這個人事費4300萬到底怎麼來的不是你們都是外包的嗎那你都有現有的人力啦為什麼然後你們行銷要1億多請問這些經費短短幾個字誰能夠告訴我正確的部分到底是如何而且你看基本營運費要2000萬這個用途到底在哪裡\n\n12\n00:04:12,311 --> 00:04:31,061\n有沒有辦法誰來說明一下我想詳細的部分還是請公視來做說明不過還是跟委員做報告就是在整體的產製跟行銷上它仍然是需要新增的人力公視並沒有4300萬欸我是說在整體的行銷宣傳上那你先告訴我4300萬人事費是怎麼花的你本來就有人啊你們都是外包啊\n\n13\n00:04:31,906 --> 00:04:58,721\n他包括節目製作的本身啦並不是包括外包那你是把它放在人事費用裡面的節目製作怎麼可以放在人事費用裡面啊沒問題我想先請公視就這個部分等他一併的回答我先不能沒有在時間之內回答請都給我書面資料去或到我辦公室來解釋因為我覺得這裡面我真的覺得公視這個文化部來說的話文化部對於公視就好像是自己的親生兒子對於華視好像養女一樣\n\n14\n00:04:59,201 --> 00:04:59,661\n但是我們補助應該已經超過5億了\n\n15\n00:05:17,746 --> 00:05:37,174\n對,你等一下一併來做回答,等一下這些的經費不能只有給我幾個,我等一下會請給兒少平台裡面有一個機會來做,然後我還是要了解到底目前的兒少的TA在哪裡,你剛剛有告訴我好幾個不同的一個階段,但是次長你會知道目前來說的話,東森幼幼台平常的市佔率多少嗎?\n\n16\n00:05:38,517 --> 00:05:45,182\n其實文策院這邊有做過調查的報告我想數字的部分可能要稍等我調一下不會啊我馬上告訴你啊50%以上啊加熱大約45%啊你們做過這個部分啊是有做過這一類的了解所以我就說這6億的錢砸下去我肯定要有這個平台可是錢要花在刀口上而且你剛剛有特別提到了他的TA是兩歲學年期還有到國中還有到這個18歲以下你們有不同的平台對\n\n17\n00:06:06,457 --> 00:06:28,393\n你覺得像青少年跟國中生都會去看你們這些電視嗎?其實要看節目的類型,譬如說以青少年來說,像輕職的棚內的座談,或者是實境,或者是解謎遊戲,其實他們是蠻喜歡的,所以其實會有年齡層的差異。那當然有差別,你可不可以給我舉幾個你所了解的知子與知彼,你可以告訴我適合青少年的優質頻道現在有哪一些?\n\n18\n00:06:29,153 --> 00:06:42,736\n我們來比一下,其實在公視裡面蠻多節目還是適合青少年：不要說公視,其他外面,我就知幾遍,你知道其他在外面有哪一些的頻道是青少年喜歡的,很優質的?我想有一些像音樂節目,青少年應該也是會非常喜歡的音樂節目?\n\n19\n00:06:42,736 --> 00:06:45,497\n啊,Spotify那種就可以啦!所以說,還有什麼?還有呢?\n\n20\n00:06:52,250 --> 00:07:21,810\n我現在只能告訴你要了解外面的市場到哪裡我們的TA的設定到有沒有它的必要性告訴你這些全部都是這些你的你所設定不同階層的TA所知道的然後呢我也看到你們特別提到裡面你們希望給學齡前兒童的多元性不足你們認為因為多元性不足你們希望能夠累積屬於台灣兒少的本土故事我也同意有本土故事啊問題是你們呢有沒有辦法做出大家吸引的否則為什麼每個人都要去迪士尼去朝聖\n\n21\n00:07:22,390 --> 00:07:26,652\n就是孩子不管你是什麼本土國外的他只要你能夠讓他吸引他就可以問題是以過去公視所提供的一個績效到底有沒有辦法說服你的平台你的月看率到底有沒有辦法你的九大節目的開發有沒有辦法真的讓我們的影視人才蓄流好我們來看一個非常嚴重的一個問題喔6億當中你們現在不斷地有很多的爵就算你們都是外包我都看得出來\n\n22\n00:07:49,722 --> 00:07:53,006\n目前有哪些有口碑有擅長兒童節目的有哪些可以講得出來嗎?你們要不要救一下我們的次長?有哪些的公司可以?\n\n23\n00:08:05,060 --> 00:08:17,598\n我想為請公視詳細說明但是還是要跟委員說明這是一個起點兒少頻道是從今年現在才要開始所以希望委員可以給我們可以給予支持但是我們還是以過去公視的這樣子的一個績效我們還是要來看你看嘛\n\n24\n00:08:19,941 --> 00:08:36,689\n我查一下你們這些絕標得標的公司裡面有些資本很小才100萬有些是1000萬有些是沒有什麼得獎作品也沒有做過什麼兒少節目而且有些是成立不久有些甚至連標案都很少我告訴你有一家去年他只有得標什麼去年5月的570萬採購案還有這一次徵案\n\n25\n00:08:40,891 --> 00:08:47,276\n二月的時候絕報了910萬他只有做公視節目兩個而且呢這家公司的營業除了電影製作之外廣告提供場地還有仲介服務我就不曉得這樣子的部分到底是如何我想這樣更證明其實在民間的產製的量能的不足這也是為什麼需要公視討論的原因產量不足但是這樣的一個公司有沒有辦法產製出什麼部分因為為什麼次長我要特別去這樣去講\n\n26\n00:09:08,971 --> 00:09:29,681\n原因是因為你們的KPI我沒有看到我沒有看到你們的KPI到底是如何就像我剛剛說的到從過去到現在公視或許非常有心可是你們製作節目的普及度普遍度和你所給我的資料我是要畫上一個問號我沒有懷疑說你們製作的一個決心只是你的能耐你們capacity到底有沒有辦法達到這個\n\n27\n00:09:30,782 --> 00:09:30,942\n拜訪問候委員﹗\n\n28\n00:09:59,679 --> 00:09:59,799\n拜訪問候委員\n\n29\n00:10:17,270 --> 00:10:39,441\n你們當時還請喬委會等等之類的你給我的資料是說九成都是國際觀眾有美國菲律賓然後你來看看你給我的觀看次數八月時候是增加了兩百萬這一個月我用單月來去看喔三月增加了五百萬好了到了2023對不起回到前面那一個台灣plus的觀看次數這一個月當中竟然有一千多萬\n\n30\n00:10:40,595 --> 00:10:46,879\n你相信嗎?一千多萬,對不起,次長你看看台灣Plus從成立到現在三年多它的總觀看次數只有三百萬次你現在可以告訴我說你到了一個月可以到一千多萬你到底怎麼樣來看看這個流量到底怎麼樣來計算的\n\n31\n00:11:06,612 --> 00:11:17,583\n一個月一千多萬次,次長你相信嗎?我把你全部加起來,我甚至調出那12月份的東西全部把它加起來,包括這個怎麼,全部加到這邊裡面才22.9萬,你每個月的關稅到一千萬,你這個次數也未免……\n\n32\n00:11:22,227 --> 00:11:22,447\n關水的太嚴重了吧?\n\n33\n00:11:22,447 --> 00:11:27,049\n那不可能是關水,我想那應該是計算基礎的問題。那好,不會有問題,我們也很知道後台的一個計算到底怎麼樣,回到剛剛前面那個次序來說,請你很清楚的告訴我,一個月當中是用這樣的方法,你的官方最重要的YouTube頻道只有300多萬人次,你全部加起來一個月裡面可以1000多萬人次。但它是含次數啊,所以它的流量。好,沒關係,我也是用次數啊,我也都用次數啊。\n\n34\n00:11:48,798 --> 00:11:48,918\n我會嚴格的看\n\n35\n00:12:07,978 --> 00:12:08,458\n主持人李慧琼\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4079\t4279\t胡董事長\n14622\t37345\t委員好 董事長好 我想2006年7月1號是由公視跟華視組成公廣集團你那時候是公視的總經理 那我們新任的文化部長小野是華視的總經理你們一起出席的這個所謂的揭牌儀式我還記得非常的清楚 那時候小野還蠻高興的說我們希望華視跟公視的結合就好像是35歲的老娘嫁給小八歲的小新郎一樣\n37765\t63812\t希望老棒生出可以生出好的結果對吧這段對話你應該很清楚就沒想到九個月之後呢我們的小野這個總經理夢碎然後他就淦然離去而且他那時候還特別提到的華視已經是四不像了然後呢完全也就是不歡而散我不曉得十七八年之後你們再重新的重逢之後你對於這個小野這個部長整頓公廣集團你有沒有信心\n66274\t81370\t謝謝委員我想過去的確有機會跟這個未來的文化部長有過一些共識的一些經驗那我相信他對公共媒體的現況跟未來發展都很了解我應該有信心他會來支持公共媒體\n81630\t85232\t所以18年這是一個很好的緣份但是我們還是要就事論事因為你從118年8月到到任華氏說實在的18年來進入這樣一個機構當中華氏已經虧損了40億那你118年到任的時候我們不用去算但是112年應該是你完整的一整年那我可不可以了解一下112為什麼比111更虧損擴大虧損的1億\n109226\t132274\t總共虧損2.4億到底是什麼樣的一個問題用最簡單的部分跟委員報告第一個部分就是因為這個華視有了一個新聞頻道那這個新聞頻道的普及率的增加在NCC當年有承諾人事費必須增加第二個是我們覺得整個過去的華視在最近這幾年來投資內容的部分不足所以\n132614\t137376\t所以你已經很清楚這個緣故了但是對我個人來說的話華氏我說實在也非常多的我都還沒有列進去有關於這個華氏的這個房租的挹注這是其他台沒有的我想台是應該非常的慶幸他們目前為止他們並沒有進入公廣集團而且他們現在已經轉虧為盈了可是看看華氏過去在我那個年代是一個戲劇王國沒想到18年華氏虧損40億如果你把這個房租放進去的話\n161184\t161344\t王次長\n179621\t196572\t謝謝胡董事長可以回去然後我不知道其他部分只要有部分就請大家一起來做一個回應好了那次長我相信你今天是加碼6億給公視我覺得這還是有年代的一個差別那個洪孟凱說他們家小孩子看玻璃玻璃我記得我家小孩看的時候那時候是公視引進的天線寶寶\n197873\t220124\t我還幫助他當作代言所以這就表示這個世代的差距但不管怎麼樣水果奶奶都還在只是現在過這麼久他已經被阿祖了可是問題公視還是只有水果奶奶當作是一個最大的一個指標所以我們來看看這個兒少的節目到底有沒有辦法來做到你給我的資料當中是有6億的分配我不曉得部長你是不是有充分的掌握他的這個資源的一個分配你看6億當中\n221445\t228730\t我必須要了解短短的幾個字我必須要了解因為你們目前為止不是新設的一個頻道只是一種轉型而且等於換了一個招牌那你內容公視的節目幾乎都是外包的那你這個人事費4300萬到底怎麼來的不是你們都是外包的嗎那你都有現有的人力啦為什麼然後你們行銷要1億多請問這些經費短短幾個字誰能夠告訴我正確的部分到底是如何而且你看基本營運費要2000萬這個用途到底在哪裡\n252311\t271061\t有沒有辦法誰來說明一下我想詳細的部分還是請公視來做說明不過還是跟委員做報告就是在整體的產製跟行銷上它仍然是需要新增的人力公視並沒有 4300萬欸我是說在整體的行銷宣傳上那你先告訴我4300萬人事費是怎麼花的你本來就有人啊 你們都是外包啊\n271906\t298721\t他包括節目製作的本身啦並不是包括外包那你是把它放在人事費用裡面的節目製作怎麼可以放在人事費用裡面啊沒問題我想先請公視就這個部分等他一併的回答我先不能沒有在時間之內回答請都給我書面資料去或到我辦公室來解釋因為我覺得這裡面我真的覺得公視這個文化部來說的話文化部對於公視就好像是自己的親生兒子對於華視好像養女一樣\n299201\t299661\t但是我們補助應該已經超過5億了\n317746\t337174\t對,你等一下一併來做回答,等一下這些的經費不能只有給我幾個,我等一下會請給兒少平台裡面有一個機會來做,然後我還是要了解到底目前的兒少的TA在哪裡,你剛剛有告訴我好幾個不同的一個階段,但是次長你會知道目前來說的話,東森幼幼台平常的市佔率多少嗎?\n338517\t345182\t其實文策院這邊有做過調查的報告我想數字的部分可能要稍等我調一下不會啊我馬上告訴你啊50%以上啊加熱大約45%啊你們做過這個部分啊是有做過這一類的了解所以我就說這6億的錢砸下去我肯定要有這個平台可是錢要花在刀口上而且你剛剛有特別提到了他的TA是兩歲學年期還有到國中還有到這個18歲以下你們有不同的平台對\n366457\t388393\t你覺得像青少年跟國中生都會去看你們這些電視嗎?其實要看節目的類型,譬如說以青少年來說,像輕職的棚內的座談,或者是實境,或者是解謎遊戲,其實他們是蠻喜歡的,所以其實會有年齡層的差異。那當然有差別,你可不可以給我舉幾個你所了解的知子與知彼,你可以告訴我適合青少年的優質頻道現在有哪一些?\n389153\t402736\t我們來比一下,其實在公視裡面蠻多節目還是適合青少年：不要說公視,其他外面,我就知幾遍,你知道其他在外面有哪一些的頻道是青少年喜歡的,很優質的?我想有一些像音樂節目,青少年應該也是會非常喜歡的音樂節目?\n402736\t405497\t啊,Spotify那種就可以啦!所以說,還有什麼?還有呢?\n412250\t441810\t我現在只能告訴你要了解外面的市場到哪裡我們的TA的設定到有沒有它的必要性告訴你這些全部都是這些你的你所設定不同階層的TA所知道的然後呢我也看到你們特別提到裡面你們希望給學齡前兒童的多元性不足你們認為因為多元性不足你們希望能夠累積屬於台灣兒少的本土故事我也同意有本土故事啊問題是你們呢有沒有辦法做出大家吸引的否則為什麼每個人都要去迪士尼去朝聖\n442390\t446652\t就是孩子不管你是什麼本土國外的他只要你能夠讓他吸引他就可以問題是以過去公視所提供的一個績效到底有沒有辦法說服你的平台你的月看率到底有沒有辦法你的九大節目的開發有沒有辦法真的讓我們的影視人才蓄流好我們來看一個非常嚴重的一個問題喔6億當中你們現在不斷地有很多的爵就算你們都是外包我都看得出來\n469722\t473006\t目前有哪些有口碑有擅長兒童節目的有哪些可以講得出來嗎?你們要不要救一下我們的次長?有哪些的公司可以?\n485060\t497598\t我想為請公視詳細說明但是還是要跟委員說明這是一個起點兒少頻道是從今年現在才要開始所以希望委員可以給我們可以給予支持但是我們還是以過去公視的這樣子的一個績效我們還是要來看你看嘛\n499941\t516689\t我查一下你們這些絕標得標的公司裡面有些資本很小才100萬有些是1000萬有些是沒有什麼得獎作品也沒有做過什麼兒少節目而且有些是成立不久有些甚至連標案都很少我告訴你有一家去年他只有得標什麼去年5月的570萬採購案還有這一次徵案\n520891\t527276\t二月的時候絕報了910萬他只有做公視節目兩個而且呢這家公司的營業除了電影製作之外廣告提供場地還有仲介服務我就不曉得這樣子的部分到底是如何我想這樣更證明其實在民間的產製的量能的不足這也是為什麼需要公視討論的原因產量不足但是這樣的一個公司有沒有辦法產製出什麼部分因為為什麼次長我要特別去這樣去講\n548971\t569681\t原因是因為你們的KPI我沒有看到我沒有看到你們的KPI到底是如何就像我剛剛說的到從過去到現在公視或許非常有心可是你們製作節目的普及度普遍度和你所給我的資料我是要畫上一個問號我沒有懷疑說你們製作的一個決心只是你的能耐你們capacity到底有沒有辦法達到這個\n570782\t570942\t拜訪問候委員﹗\n599679\t599799\t拜訪問候委員\n617270\t639441\t你們當時還請喬委會等等之類的你給我的資料是說九成都是國際觀眾有美國菲律賓然後你來看看你給我的觀看次數八月時候是增加了兩百萬這一個月我用單月來去看喔三月增加了五百萬好了到了2023對不起回到前面那一個台灣plus的觀看次數這一個月當中竟然有一千多萬\n640595\t646879\t你相信嗎?一千多萬,對不起,次長你看看台灣Plus從成立到現在三年多它的總觀看次數只有三百萬次你現在可以告訴我說你到了一個月可以到一千多萬你到底怎麼樣來看看這個流量到底怎麼樣來計算的\n666612\t677583\t一個月一千多萬次,次長你相信嗎?我把你全部加起來,我甚至調出那12月份的東西全部把它加起來,包括這個怎麼,全部加到這邊裡面才22.9萬,你每個月的關稅到一千萬,你這個次數也未免……\n682227\t682447\t關水的太嚴重了吧?\n682447\t687049\t那不可能是關水,我想那應該是計算基礎的問題。 那好,不會有問題,我們也很知道後台的一個計算到底怎麼樣,回到剛剛前面那個次序來說,請你很清楚的告訴我,一個月當中是用這樣的方法,你的官方最重要的YouTube頻道只有300多萬人次,你全部加起來一個月裡面可以1000多萬人次。 但它是含次數啊,所以它的流量。 好,沒關係,我也是用次數啊,我也都用次數啊。\n708798\t708918\t我會嚴格的看\n727978\t728458\t主持人李慧琼\n756340\t775299\t﹗\n","txt":"胡董事長\n委員好 董事長好 我想2006年7月1號是由公視跟華視組成公廣集團你那時候是公視的總經理 那我們新任的文化部長小野是華視的總經理你們一起出席的這個所謂的揭牌儀式我還記得非常的清楚 那時候小野還蠻高興的說我們希望華視跟公視的結合就好像是35歲的老娘嫁給小八歲的小新郎一樣\n希望老棒生出可以生出好的結果對吧這段對話你應該很清楚就沒想到九個月之後呢我們的小野這個總經理夢碎然後他就淦然離去而且他那時候還特別提到的華視已經是四不像了然後呢完全也就是不歡而散我不曉得十七八年之後你們再重新的重逢之後你對於這個小野這個部長整頓公廣集團你有沒有信心\n謝謝委員我想過去的確有機會跟這個未來的文化部長有過一些共識的一些經驗那我相信他對公共媒體的現況跟未來發展都很了解我應該有信心他會來支持公共媒體\n所以18年這是一個很好的緣份但是我們還是要就事論事因為你從118年8月到到任華氏說實在的18年來進入這樣一個機構當中華氏已經虧損了40億那你118年到任的時候我們不用去算但是112年應該是你完整的一整年那我可不可以了解一下112為什麼比111更虧損擴大虧損的1億\n總共虧損2.4億到底是什麼樣的一個問題用最簡單的部分跟委員報告第一個部分就是因為這個華視有了一個新聞頻道那這個新聞頻道的普及率的增加在NCC當年有承諾人事費必須增加第二個是我們覺得整個過去的華視在最近這幾年來投資內容的部分不足所以\n所以你已經很清楚這個緣故了但是對我個人來說的話華氏我說實在也非常多的我都還沒有列進去有關於這個華氏的這個房租的挹注這是其他台沒有的我想台是應該非常的慶幸他們目前為止他們並沒有進入公廣集團而且他們現在已經轉虧為盈了可是看看華氏過去在我那個年代是一個戲劇王國沒想到18年華氏虧損40億如果你把這個房租放進去的話\n王次長\n謝謝胡董事長可以回去然後我不知道其他部分只要有部分就請大家一起來做一個回應好了那次長我相信你今天是加碼6億給公視我覺得這還是有年代的一個差別那個洪孟凱說他們家小孩子看玻璃玻璃我記得我家小孩看的時候那時候是公視引進的天線寶寶\n我還幫助他當作代言所以這就表示這個世代的差距但不管怎麼樣水果奶奶都還在只是現在過這麼久他已經被阿祖了可是問題公視還是只有水果奶奶當作是一個最大的一個指標所以我們來看看這個兒少的節目到底有沒有辦法來做到你給我的資料當中是有6億的分配我不曉得部長你是不是有充分的掌握他的這個資源的一個分配你看6億當中\n我必須要了解短短的幾個字我必須要了解因為你們目前為止不是新設的一個頻道只是一種轉型而且等於換了一個招牌那你內容公視的節目幾乎都是外包的那你這個人事費4300萬到底怎麼來的不是你們都是外包的嗎那你都有現有的人力啦為什麼然後你們行銷要1億多請問這些經費短短幾個字誰能夠告訴我正確的部分到底是如何而且你看基本營運費要2000萬這個用途到底在哪裡\n有沒有辦法誰來說明一下我想詳細的部分還是請公視來做說明不過還是跟委員做報告就是在整體的產製跟行銷上它仍然是需要新增的人力公視並沒有 4300萬欸我是說在整體的行銷宣傳上那你先告訴我4300萬人事費是怎麼花的你本來就有人啊 你們都是外包啊\n他包括節目製作的本身啦並不是包括外包那你是把它放在人事費用裡面的節目製作怎麼可以放在人事費用裡面啊沒問題我想先請公視就這個部分等他一併的回答我先不能沒有在時間之內回答請都給我書面資料去或到我辦公室來解釋因為我覺得這裡面我真的覺得公視這個文化部來說的話文化部對於公視就好像是自己的親生兒子對於華視好像養女一樣\n但是我們補助應該已經超過5億了\n對,你等一下一併來做回答,等一下這些的經費不能只有給我幾個,我等一下會請給兒少平台裡面有一個機會來做,然後我還是要了解到底目前的兒少的TA在哪裡,你剛剛有告訴我好幾個不同的一個階段,但是次長你會知道目前來說的話,東森幼幼台平常的市佔率多少嗎?\n其實文策院這邊有做過調查的報告我想數字的部分可能要稍等我調一下不會啊我馬上告訴你啊50%以上啊加熱大約45%啊你們做過這個部分啊是有做過這一類的了解所以我就說這6億的錢砸下去我肯定要有這個平台可是錢要花在刀口上而且你剛剛有特別提到了他的TA是兩歲學年期還有到國中還有到這個18歲以下你們有不同的平台對\n你覺得像青少年跟國中生都會去看你們這些電視嗎?其實要看節目的類型,譬如說以青少年來說,像輕職的棚內的座談,或者是實境,或者是解謎遊戲,其實他們是蠻喜歡的,所以其實會有年齡層的差異。那當然有差別,你可不可以給我舉幾個你所了解的知子與知彼,你可以告訴我適合青少年的優質頻道現在有哪一些?\n我們來比一下,其實在公視裡面蠻多節目還是適合青少年：不要說公視,其他外面,我就知幾遍,你知道其他在外面有哪一些的頻道是青少年喜歡的,很優質的?我想有一些像音樂節目,青少年應該也是會非常喜歡的音樂節目?\n啊,Spotify那種就可以啦!所以說,還有什麼?還有呢?\n我現在只能告訴你要了解外面的市場到哪裡我們的TA的設定到有沒有它的必要性告訴你這些全部都是這些你的你所設定不同階層的TA所知道的然後呢我也看到你們特別提到裡面你們希望給學齡前兒童的多元性不足你們認為因為多元性不足你們希望能夠累積屬於台灣兒少的本土故事我也同意有本土故事啊問題是你們呢有沒有辦法做出大家吸引的否則為什麼每個人都要去迪士尼去朝聖\n就是孩子不管你是什麼本土國外的他只要你能夠讓他吸引他就可以問題是以過去公視所提供的一個績效到底有沒有辦法說服你的平台你的月看率到底有沒有辦法你的九大節目的開發有沒有辦法真的讓我們的影視人才蓄流好我們來看一個非常嚴重的一個問題喔6億當中你們現在不斷地有很多的爵就算你們都是外包我都看得出來\n目前有哪些有口碑有擅長兒童節目的有哪些可以講得出來嗎?你們要不要救一下我們的次長?有哪些的公司可以?\n我想為請公視詳細說明但是還是要跟委員說明這是一個起點兒少頻道是從今年現在才要開始所以希望委員可以給我們可以給予支持但是我們還是以過去公視的這樣子的一個績效我們還是要來看你看嘛\n我查一下你們這些絕標得標的公司裡面有些資本很小才100萬有些是1000萬有些是沒有什麼得獎作品也沒有做過什麼兒少節目而且有些是成立不久有些甚至連標案都很少我告訴你有一家去年他只有得標什麼去年5月的570萬採購案還有這一次徵案\n二月的時候絕報了910萬他只有做公視節目兩個而且呢這家公司的營業除了電影製作之外廣告提供場地還有仲介服務我就不曉得這樣子的部分到底是如何我想這樣更證明其實在民間的產製的量能的不足這也是為什麼需要公視討論的原因產量不足但是這樣的一個公司有沒有辦法產製出什麼部分因為為什麼次長我要特別去這樣去講\n原因是因為你們的KPI我沒有看到我沒有看到你們的KPI到底是如何就像我剛剛說的到從過去到現在公視或許非常有心可是你們製作節目的普及度普遍度和你所給我的資料我是要畫上一個問號我沒有懷疑說你們製作的一個決心只是你的能耐你們capacity到底有沒有辦法達到這個\n拜訪問候委員﹗\n拜訪問候委員\n你們當時還請喬委會等等之類的你給我的資料是說九成都是國際觀眾有美國菲律賓然後你來看看你給我的觀看次數八月時候是增加了兩百萬這一個月我用單月來去看喔三月增加了五百萬好了到了2023對不起回到前面那一個台灣plus的觀看次數這一個月當中竟然有一千多萬\n你相信嗎?一千多萬,對不起,次長你看看台灣Plus從成立到現在三年多它的總觀看次數只有三百萬次你現在可以告訴我說你到了一個月可以到一千多萬你到底怎麼樣來看看這個流量到底怎麼樣來計算的\n一個月一千多萬次,次長你相信嗎?我把你全部加起來,我甚至調出那12月份的東西全部把它加起來,包括這個怎麼,全部加到這邊裡面才22.9萬,你每個月的關稅到一千萬,你這個次數也未免……\n關水的太嚴重了吧?\n那不可能是關水,我想那應該是計算基礎的問題。 那好,不會有問題,我們也很知道後台的一個計算到底怎麼樣,回到剛剛前面那個次序來說,請你很清楚的告訴我,一個月當中是用這樣的方法,你的官方最重要的YouTube頻道只有300多萬人次,你全部加起來一個月裡面可以1000多萬人次。 但它是含次數啊,所以它的流量。 好,沒關係,我也是用次數啊,我也都用次數啊。\n我會嚴格的看\n主持人李慧琼\n﹗\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.079 --> 00:04.279\n胡董事長\n\n00:14.622 --> 00:37.345\n委員好董事長好我想2006年7月1號是由公視跟華視組成公廣集團你那時候是公視的總經理那我們新任的文化部長小野是華視的總經理你們一起出席的這個所謂的揭牌儀式我還記得非常的清楚那時候小野還蠻高興的說我們希望華視跟公視的結合就好像是35歲的老娘嫁給小八歲的小新郎一樣\n\n00:37.765 --> 01:03.812\n希望老棒生出可以生出好的結果對吧這段對話你應該很清楚就沒想到九個月之後呢我們的小野這個總經理夢碎然後他就淦然離去而且他那時候還特別提到的華視已經是四不像了然後呢完全也就是不歡而散我不曉得十七八年之後你們再重新的重逢之後你對於這個小野這個部長整頓公廣集團你有沒有信心\n\n01:06.274 --> 01:21.370\n謝謝委員我想過去的確有機會跟這個未來的文化部長有過一些共識的一些經驗那我相信他對公共媒體的現況跟未來發展都很了解我應該有信心他會來支持公共媒體\n\n01:21.630 --> 01:25.232\n所以18年這是一個很好的緣份但是我們還是要就事論事因為你從118年8月到到任華氏說實在的18年來進入這樣一個機構當中華氏已經虧損了40億那你118年到任的時候我們不用去算但是112年應該是你完整的一整年那我可不可以了解一下112為什麼比111更虧損擴大虧損的1億\n\n01:49.226 --> 02:12.274\n總共虧損2.4億到底是什麼樣的一個問題用最簡單的部分跟委員報告第一個部分就是因為這個華視有了一個新聞頻道那這個新聞頻道的普及率的增加在NCC當年有承諾人事費必須增加第二個是我們覺得整個過去的華視在最近這幾年來投資內容的部分不足所以\n\n02:12.614 --> 02:17.376\n所以你已經很清楚這個緣故了但是對我個人來說的話華氏我說實在也非常多的我都還沒有列進去有關於這個華氏的這個房租的挹注這是其他台沒有的我想台是應該非常的慶幸他們目前為止他們並沒有進入公廣集團而且他們現在已經轉虧為盈了可是看看華氏過去在我那個年代是一個戲劇王國沒想到18年華氏虧損40億如果你把這個房租放進去的話\n\n02:41.184 --> 02:41.344\n王次長\n\n02:59.621 --> 03:16.572\n謝謝胡董事長可以回去然後我不知道其他部分只要有部分就請大家一起來做一個回應好了那次長我相信你今天是加碼6億給公視我覺得這還是有年代的一個差別那個洪孟凱說他們家小孩子看玻璃玻璃我記得我家小孩看的時候那時候是公視引進的天線寶寶\n\n03:17.873 --> 03:40.124\n我還幫助他當作代言所以這就表示這個世代的差距但不管怎麼樣水果奶奶都還在只是現在過這麼久他已經被阿祖了可是問題公視還是只有水果奶奶當作是一個最大的一個指標所以我們來看看這個兒少的節目到底有沒有辦法來做到你給我的資料當中是有6億的分配我不曉得部長你是不是有充分的掌握他的這個資源的一個分配你看6億當中\n\n03:41.445 --> 03:48.730\n我必須要了解短短的幾個字我必須要了解因為你們目前為止不是新設的一個頻道只是一種轉型而且等於換了一個招牌那你內容公視的節目幾乎都是外包的那你這個人事費4300萬到底怎麼來的不是你們都是外包的嗎那你都有現有的人力啦為什麼然後你們行銷要1億多請問這些經費短短幾個字誰能夠告訴我正確的部分到底是如何而且你看基本營運費要2000萬這個用途到底在哪裡\n\n04:12.311 --> 04:31.061\n有沒有辦法誰來說明一下我想詳細的部分還是請公視來做說明不過還是跟委員做報告就是在整體的產製跟行銷上它仍然是需要新增的人力公視並沒有4300萬欸我是說在整體的行銷宣傳上那你先告訴我4300萬人事費是怎麼花的你本來就有人啊你們都是外包啊\n\n04:31.906 --> 04:58.721\n他包括節目製作的本身啦並不是包括外包那你是把它放在人事費用裡面的節目製作怎麼可以放在人事費用裡面啊沒問題我想先請公視就這個部分等他一併的回答我先不能沒有在時間之內回答請都給我書面資料去或到我辦公室來解釋因為我覺得這裡面我真的覺得公視這個文化部來說的話文化部對於公視就好像是自己的親生兒子對於華視好像養女一樣\n\n04:59.201 --> 04:59.661\n但是我們補助應該已經超過5億了\n\n05:17.746 --> 05:37.174\n對,你等一下一併來做回答,等一下這些的經費不能只有給我幾個,我等一下會請給兒少平台裡面有一個機會來做,然後我還是要了解到底目前的兒少的TA在哪裡,你剛剛有告訴我好幾個不同的一個階段,但是次長你會知道目前來說的話,東森幼幼台平常的市佔率多少嗎?\n\n05:38.517 --> 05:45.182\n其實文策院這邊有做過調查的報告我想數字的部分可能要稍等我調一下不會啊我馬上告訴你啊50%以上啊加熱大約45%啊你們做過這個部分啊是有做過這一類的了解所以我就說這6億的錢砸下去我肯定要有這個平台可是錢要花在刀口上而且你剛剛有特別提到了他的TA是兩歲學年期還有到國中還有到這個18歲以下你們有不同的平台對\n\n06:06.457 --> 06:28.393\n你覺得像青少年跟國中生都會去看你們這些電視嗎?其實要看節目的類型,譬如說以青少年來說,像輕職的棚內的座談,或者是實境,或者是解謎遊戲,其實他們是蠻喜歡的,所以其實會有年齡層的差異。那當然有差別,你可不可以給我舉幾個你所了解的知子與知彼,你可以告訴我適合青少年的優質頻道現在有哪一些?\n\n06:29.153 --> 06:42.736\n我們來比一下,其實在公視裡面蠻多節目還是適合青少年：不要說公視,其他外面,我就知幾遍,你知道其他在外面有哪一些的頻道是青少年喜歡的,很優質的?我想有一些像音樂節目,青少年應該也是會非常喜歡的音樂節目?\n\n06:42.736 --> 06:45.497\n啊,Spotify那種就可以啦!所以說,還有什麼?還有呢?\n\n06:52.250 --> 07:21.810\n我現在只能告訴你要了解外面的市場到哪裡我們的TA的設定到有沒有它的必要性告訴你這些全部都是這些你的你所設定不同階層的TA所知道的然後呢我也看到你們特別提到裡面你們希望給學齡前兒童的多元性不足你們認為因為多元性不足你們希望能夠累積屬於台灣兒少的本土故事我也同意有本土故事啊問題是你們呢有沒有辦法做出大家吸引的否則為什麼每個人都要去迪士尼去朝聖\n\n07:22.390 --> 07:26.652\n就是孩子不管你是什麼本土國外的他只要你能夠讓他吸引他就可以問題是以過去公視所提供的一個績效到底有沒有辦法說服你的平台你的月看率到底有沒有辦法你的九大節目的開發有沒有辦法真的讓我們的影視人才蓄流好我們來看一個非常嚴重的一個問題喔6億當中你們現在不斷地有很多的爵就算你們都是外包我都看得出來\n\n07:49.722 --> 07:53.006\n目前有哪些有口碑有擅長兒童節目的有哪些可以講得出來嗎?你們要不要救一下我們的次長?有哪些的公司可以?\n\n08:05.060 --> 08:17.598\n我想為請公視詳細說明但是還是要跟委員說明這是一個起點兒少頻道是從今年現在才要開始所以希望委員可以給我們可以給予支持但是我們還是以過去公視的這樣子的一個績效我們還是要來看你看嘛\n\n08:19.941 --> 08:36.689\n我查一下你們這些絕標得標的公司裡面有些資本很小才100萬有些是1000萬有些是沒有什麼得獎作品也沒有做過什麼兒少節目而且有些是成立不久有些甚至連標案都很少我告訴你有一家去年他只有得標什麼去年5月的570萬採購案還有這一次徵案\n\n08:40.891 --> 08:47.276\n二月的時候絕報了910萬他只有做公視節目兩個而且呢這家公司的營業除了電影製作之外廣告提供場地還有仲介服務我就不曉得這樣子的部分到底是如何我想這樣更證明其實在民間的產製的量能的不足這也是為什麼需要公視討論的原因產量不足但是這樣的一個公司有沒有辦法產製出什麼部分因為為什麼次長我要特別去這樣去講\n\n09:08.971 --> 09:29.681\n原因是因為你們的KPI我沒有看到我沒有看到你們的KPI到底是如何就像我剛剛說的到從過去到現在公視或許非常有心可是你們製作節目的普及度普遍度和你所給我的資料我是要畫上一個問號我沒有懷疑說你們製作的一個決心只是你的能耐你們capacity到底有沒有辦法達到這個\n\n09:30.782 --> 09:30.942\n拜訪問候委員﹗\n\n09:59.679 --> 09:59.799\n拜訪問候委員\n\n10:17.270 --> 10:39.441\n你們當時還請喬委會等等之類的你給我的資料是說九成都是國際觀眾有美國菲律賓然後你來看看你給我的觀看次數八月時候是增加了兩百萬這一個月我用單月來去看喔三月增加了五百萬好了到了2023對不起回到前面那一個台灣plus的觀看次數這一個月當中竟然有一千多萬\n\n10:40.595 --> 10:46.879\n你相信嗎?一千多萬,對不起,次長你看看台灣Plus從成立到現在三年多它的總觀看次數只有三百萬次你現在可以告訴我說你到了一個月可以到一千多萬你到底怎麼樣來看看這個流量到底怎麼樣來計算的\n\n11:06.612 --> 11:17.583\n一個月一千多萬次,次長你相信嗎?我把你全部加起來,我甚至調出那12月份的東西全部把它加起來,包括這個怎麼,全部加到這邊裡面才22.9萬,你每個月的關稅到一千萬,你這個次數也未免……\n\n11:22.227 --> 11:22.447\n關水的太嚴重了吧?\n\n11:22.447 --> 11:27.049\n那不可能是關水,我想那應該是計算基礎的問題。那好,不會有問題,我們也很知道後台的一個計算到底怎麼樣,回到剛剛前面那個次序來說,請你很清楚的告訴我,一個月當中是用這樣的方法,你的官方最重要的YouTube頻道只有300多萬人次,你全部加起來一個月裡面可以1000多萬人次。但它是含次數啊,所以它的流量。好,沒關係,我也是用次數啊,我也都用次數啊。\n\n11:48.798 --> 11:48.918\n我會嚴格的看\n\n12:07.978 --> 12:08.458\n主持人李慧琼\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.079,"end":4.279,"text":"胡董事長"},{"start":14.622,"end":37.345,"text":"委員好 董事長好 我想2006年7月1號是由公視跟華視組成公廣集團你那時候是公視的總經理 那我們新任的文化部長小野是華視的總經理你們一起出席的這個所謂的揭牌儀式我還記得非常的清楚 那時候小野還蠻高興的說我們希望華視跟公視的結合就好像是35歲的老娘嫁給小八歲的小新郎一樣"},{"start":37.765,"end":63.812,"text":"希望老棒生出可以生出好的結果對吧這段對話你應該很清楚就沒想到九個月之後呢我們的小野這個總經理夢碎然後他就淦然離去而且他那時候還特別提到的華視已經是四不像了然後呢完全也就是不歡而散我不曉得十七八年之後你們再重新的重逢之後你對於這個小野這個部長整頓公廣集團你有沒有信心"},{"start":66.274,"end":81.37,"text":"謝謝委員我想過去的確有機會跟這個未來的文化部長有過一些共識的一些經驗那我相信他對公共媒體的現況跟未來發展都很了解我應該有信心他會來支持公共媒體"},{"start":81.63,"end":85.232,"text":"所以18年這是一個很好的緣份但是我們還是要就事論事因為你從118年8月到到任華氏說實在的18年來進入這樣一個機構當中華氏已經虧損了40億那你118年到任的時候我們不用去算但是112年應該是你完整的一整年那我可不可以了解一下112為什麼比111更虧損擴大虧損的1億"},{"start":109.226,"end":132.274,"text":"總共虧損2.4億到底是什麼樣的一個問題用最簡單的部分跟委員報告第一個部分就是因為這個華視有了一個新聞頻道那這個新聞頻道的普及率的增加在NCC當年有承諾人事費必須增加第二個是我們覺得整個過去的華視在最近這幾年來投資內容的部分不足所以"},{"start":132.614,"end":137.376,"text":"所以你已經很清楚這個緣故了但是對我個人來說的話華氏我說實在也非常多的我都還沒有列進去有關於這個華氏的這個房租的挹注這是其他台沒有的我想台是應該非常的慶幸他們目前為止他們並沒有進入公廣集團而且他們現在已經轉虧為盈了可是看看華氏過去在我那個年代是一個戲劇王國沒想到18年華氏虧損40億如果你把這個房租放進去的話"},{"start":161.184,"end":161.344,"text":"王次長"},{"start":179.621,"end":196.572,"text":"謝謝胡董事長可以回去然後我不知道其他部分只要有部分就請大家一起來做一個回應好了那次長我相信你今天是加碼6億給公視我覺得這還是有年代的一個差別那個洪孟凱說他們家小孩子看玻璃玻璃我記得我家小孩看的時候那時候是公視引進的天線寶寶"},{"start":197.873,"end":220.124,"text":"我還幫助他當作代言所以這就表示這個世代的差距但不管怎麼樣水果奶奶都還在只是現在過這麼久他已經被阿祖了可是問題公視還是只有水果奶奶當作是一個最大的一個指標所以我們來看看這個兒少的節目到底有沒有辦法來做到你給我的資料當中是有6億的分配我不曉得部長你是不是有充分的掌握他的這個資源的一個分配你看6億當中"},{"start":221.445,"end":228.73,"text":"我必須要了解短短的幾個字我必須要了解因為你們目前為止不是新設的一個頻道只是一種轉型而且等於換了一個招牌那你內容公視的節目幾乎都是外包的那你這個人事費4300萬到底怎麼來的不是你們都是外包的嗎那你都有現有的人力啦為什麼然後你們行銷要1億多請問這些經費短短幾個字誰能夠告訴我正確的部分到底是如何而且你看基本營運費要2000萬這個用途到底在哪裡"},{"start":252.311,"end":271.061,"text":"有沒有辦法誰來說明一下我想詳細的部分還是請公視來做說明不過還是跟委員做報告就是在整體的產製跟行銷上它仍然是需要新增的人力公視並沒有 4300萬欸我是說在整體的行銷宣傳上那你先告訴我4300萬人事費是怎麼花的你本來就有人啊 你們都是外包啊"},{"start":271.906,"end":298.721,"text":"他包括節目製作的本身啦並不是包括外包那你是把它放在人事費用裡面的節目製作怎麼可以放在人事費用裡面啊沒問題我想先請公視就這個部分等他一併的回答我先不能沒有在時間之內回答請都給我書面資料去或到我辦公室來解釋因為我覺得這裡面我真的覺得公視這個文化部來說的話文化部對於公視就好像是自己的親生兒子對於華視好像養女一樣"},{"start":299.201,"end":299.661,"text":"但是我們補助應該已經超過5億了"},{"start":317.746,"end":337.174,"text":"對,你等一下一併來做回答,等一下這些的經費不能只有給我幾個,我等一下會請給兒少平台裡面有一個機會來做,然後我還是要了解到底目前的兒少的TA在哪裡,你剛剛有告訴我好幾個不同的一個階段,但是次長你會知道目前來說的話,東森幼幼台平常的市佔率多少嗎?"},{"start":338.517,"end":345.182,"text":"其實文策院這邊有做過調查的報告我想數字的部分可能要稍等我調一下不會啊我馬上告訴你啊50%以上啊加熱大約45%啊你們做過這個部分啊是有做過這一類的了解所以我就說這6億的錢砸下去我肯定要有這個平台可是錢要花在刀口上而且你剛剛有特別提到了他的TA是兩歲學年期還有到國中還有到這個18歲以下你們有不同的平台對"},{"start":366.457,"end":388.393,"text":"你覺得像青少年跟國中生都會去看你們這些電視嗎?其實要看節目的類型,譬如說以青少年來說,像輕職的棚內的座談,或者是實境,或者是解謎遊戲,其實他們是蠻喜歡的,所以其實會有年齡層的差異。那當然有差別,你可不可以給我舉幾個你所了解的知子與知彼,你可以告訴我適合青少年的優質頻道現在有哪一些?"},{"start":389.153,"end":402.736,"text":"我們來比一下,其實在公視裡面蠻多節目還是適合青少年：不要說公視,其他外面,我就知幾遍,你知道其他在外面有哪一些的頻道是青少年喜歡的,很優質的?我想有一些像音樂節目,青少年應該也是會非常喜歡的音樂節目?"},{"start":402.736,"end":405.497,"text":"啊,Spotify那種就可以啦!所以說,還有什麼?還有呢?"},{"start":412.25,"end":441.81,"text":"我現在只能告訴你要了解外面的市場到哪裡我們的TA的設定到有沒有它的必要性告訴你這些全部都是這些你的你所設定不同階層的TA所知道的然後呢我也看到你們特別提到裡面你們希望給學齡前兒童的多元性不足你們認為因為多元性不足你們希望能夠累積屬於台灣兒少的本土故事我也同意有本土故事啊問題是你們呢有沒有辦法做出大家吸引的否則為什麼每個人都要去迪士尼去朝聖"},{"start":442.39,"end":446.652,"text":"就是孩子不管你是什麼本土國外的他只要你能夠讓他吸引他就可以問題是以過去公視所提供的一個績效到底有沒有辦法說服你的平台你的月看率到底有沒有辦法你的九大節目的開發有沒有辦法真的讓我們的影視人才蓄流好我們來看一個非常嚴重的一個問題喔6億當中你們現在不斷地有很多的爵就算你們都是外包我都看得出來"},{"start":469.722,"end":473.006,"text":"目前有哪些有口碑有擅長兒童節目的有哪些可以講得出來嗎?你們要不要救一下我們的次長?有哪些的公司可以?"},{"start":485.06,"end":497.598,"text":"我想為請公視詳細說明但是還是要跟委員說明這是一個起點兒少頻道是從今年現在才要開始所以希望委員可以給我們可以給予支持但是我們還是以過去公視的這樣子的一個績效我們還是要來看你看嘛"},{"start":499.941,"end":516.689,"text":"我查一下你們這些絕標得標的公司裡面有些資本很小才100萬有些是1000萬有些是沒有什麼得獎作品也沒有做過什麼兒少節目而且有些是成立不久有些甚至連標案都很少我告訴你有一家去年他只有得標什麼去年5月的570萬採購案還有這一次徵案"},{"start":520.891,"end":527.276,"text":"二月的時候絕報了910萬他只有做公視節目兩個而且呢這家公司的營業除了電影製作之外廣告提供場地還有仲介服務我就不曉得這樣子的部分到底是如何我想這樣更證明其實在民間的產製的量能的不足這也是為什麼需要公視討論的原因產量不足但是這樣的一個公司有沒有辦法產製出什麼部分因為為什麼次長我要特別去這樣去講"},{"start":548.971,"end":569.681,"text":"原因是因為你們的KPI我沒有看到我沒有看到你們的KPI到底是如何就像我剛剛說的到從過去到現在公視或許非常有心可是你們製作節目的普及度普遍度和你所給我的資料我是要畫上一個問號我沒有懷疑說你們製作的一個決心只是你的能耐你們capacity到底有沒有辦法達到這個"},{"start":570.782,"end":570.942,"text":"拜訪問候委員﹗"},{"start":599.679,"end":599.799,"text":"拜訪問候委員"},{"start":617.27,"end":639.441,"text":"你們當時還請喬委會等等之類的你給我的資料是說九成都是國際觀眾有美國菲律賓然後你來看看你給我的觀看次數八月時候是增加了兩百萬這一個月我用單月來去看喔三月增加了五百萬好了到了2023對不起回到前面那一個台灣plus的觀看次數這一個月當中竟然有一千多萬"},{"start":640.595,"end":646.879,"text":"你相信嗎?一千多萬,對不起,次長你看看台灣Plus從成立到現在三年多它的總觀看次數只有三百萬次你現在可以告訴我說你到了一個月可以到一千多萬你到底怎麼樣來看看這個流量到底怎麼樣來計算的"},{"start":666.612,"end":677.583,"text":"一個月一千多萬次,次長你相信嗎?我把你全部加起來,我甚至調出那12月份的東西全部把它加起來,包括這個怎麼,全部加到這邊裡面才22.9萬,你每個月的關稅到一千萬,你這個次數也未免……"},{"start":682.227,"end":682.447,"text":"關水的太嚴重了吧?"},{"start":682.447,"end":687.049,"text":"那不可能是關水,我想那應該是計算基礎的問題。 那好,不會有問題,我們也很知道後台的一個計算到底怎麼樣,回到剛剛前面那個次序來說,請你很清楚的告訴我,一個月當中是用這樣的方法,你的官方最重要的YouTube頻道只有300多萬人次,你全部加起來一個月裡面可以1000多萬人次。 但它是含次數啊,所以它的流量。 好,沒關係,我也是用次數啊,我也都用次數啊。"},{"start":708.798,"end":708.918,"text":"我會嚴格的看"},{"start":727.978,"end":728.458,"text":"主持人李慧琼"},{"start":756.34,"end":775.299,"text":"﹗"}]}}}}