{"id":151724,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151724","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/37a05b44d500ce15087f36c94149075ce44e652c0c420c23c68e374cd8c4bed0286ec5ce099167b55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅智強","委員發言時間":"09:36:35 - 09:47:11","影片長度":"00:10:36","會議時間":"2024-04-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：一、繼續審查\n（一）民進黨黨團擬具「立法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員高金素梅等23人擬具「立法院組織法第三十二條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「立法院組織法第三條、第五條及第三十二條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員高金素梅等17人擬具「立法院組織法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。\n二、繼續審查\n（一）民進黨黨團擬具「立法委員行為法第七條之一及第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「立法委員行為法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員范雲等18人擬具「立法委員行為法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n三、繼續審查\n（一）民進黨黨團擬具「立法院議事規則第四十七條、第四十八條及第五十二條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「立法院議事規則第九條、第二十二條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n四、\n（一）繼續審查民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）繼續審查委員呂玉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（三）繼續審查委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」案。\n（四）繼續審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（五）繼續審查委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（六）審查委員羅智強等22人擬具「立法院職權行使法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n【第四案（六）如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","date":"2024-04-25","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":17,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-17"},"duration":636,"end_time":"2024-04-25T09:47:11+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-25T09:36:35+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":259,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（9時36分）主席，有請周秘書長。"],["主席：請周秘書長。"],["周秘書長萬來：羅委員好。"],["羅委員智強：秘書長好。同樣地，我不會為難你，在不為難你的狀況之下，就要借重您對於立法院多年來議事規則還有相關程序進行的專業，就最近這一段時間有些疑問想要就教秘書長。首先，其實說真的，我最近看到這幾波有關於國會改革的討論或是攻防，我從中也學習到很多，第一個，我想要就教周秘書長，當國民黨提出國會改革五法之後，其實我們一直很努力地儘量能夠廣納意見，所以我看到我們的吳宗憲召委，當我們在推國會改革五法的時候，民進黨覺得討論不夠，那時候說討論不夠，我們就安排1場關於國民黨版國會改革五法的專報，還是覺得不夠，我們排了1場公聽會，民進黨直接還講1場公聽會不夠，要讓更多人聽到。所以我們的吳宗憲召委還特別延審兩個禮拜，本來排定要審國民黨版的國會改革五法，他還延審了兩個禮拜，然後讓民進黨可以再加開2場公聽會，1場專報、3場公聽會，請問吳宗憲召委這樣的做法是不是很獨裁？你覺得呢？"],["周秘書長萬來：因為這是由召集委員來排定，依據各委員會組織法規定，委員會的議程是由召集委員來排定。"],["羅委員智強：沒錯。"],["周秘書長萬來：所以2個召集委員都互有排定，我認為場次的多少我未便說明。"],["羅委員智強：當然，我知道你未便說明。但是我要跟各位講，吳宗憲召委贏得了民進黨2次所謂的譴責提案，然後說他很獨裁，這是民進黨對吳宗憲召委的待遇。接下來在這邊我想講的是，召委真的是做得不夠，你這樣做人家也不滿意，對不對？如果是這樣的話，我倒是對民進黨這次提出的國會改革五法有一個很個人的建議，如果吳宗憲召委做得不夠，我建議民進黨國會改革五法、國會改革版本，尤其是吳思瑤講跟國民黨不一樣，不一樣的話應該要更廣納社會大眾意見，不如開2場專報、5場公聽會，好不好？如果做不到吳宗憲召委的1場專報、3場公聽會的話，沒有關係，比照，讓民進黨的國會改革版本好好地就像國民黨的國會改革版本一樣，透過專報和3場公聽會讓社會大眾檢驗，讓大家好好看看民進黨的國會改革版本到底是怎麼樣一回事，我不知道秘書長覺得這個主意怎麼樣呢？"],["周秘書長萬來：尊重召集委員，因為各黨團都有1位召集委員。"],["羅委員智強：對，其實我問秘書長的時候，也同時在建議我們的鍾佳濱召委，也同時建議底下的民進黨委員們，既然民進黨版的國會改革這麼重要，基本上我覺得是可以讓社會大眾有更多時間好好地來討論。所以今天不如就讓我們各自表達意見之後，是不是也請鍾佳濱召委能夠從善如流學學吳宗憲召委的風度或者是獨裁，你們提案說公聽會不夠要再加開，吳宗憲召委馬上延審兩個禮拜，延審法案讓民進黨可以召開公聽會，所以我覺得真的要比照一下吳宗憲召委的作法。","我也幫吳宗憲召委說句話，如果吳宗憲召委的作法叫獨裁的話，我要就教一下周萬來秘書長，你也看過立法院風風雨雨幾十年，你知道民進黨執政8年常常開會5分鐘，直接強行表決，然後就散會了，因為人家的人數是多數，有優勢，輾壓完就散會了，你不要講國民黨想開公聽會沒得談，專報沒得談，連討論都5分鐘就解決掉了！我想請問如果吳宗憲召委主持會議6個小時的討論，1次專報、3次公聽會就叫獨裁，我不知道民進黨這叫什麼？皇帝嗎？是秦始皇嗎？還是朱元璋大帝呢？到底是怎麼回事？我不知道5分鐘結束1個立法院委員會的討論比較獨裁，還是吳宗憲召委討論6小時，舉行1場專報、3場公聽會比較獨裁呢？秘書長從你的多年經驗，你怎麼看這件事情？"],["周秘書長萬來：我離開9年多了，中間我的書也有稍微做幾個版的修正，其實我在「國會議事策略101」的序裡面有提過，當時對第10屆的院長擔任的時候，我有特別在序特別強調，希望在制度上能夠回歸議事規範，大家能夠遵守的範圍，我記得在「國會議事策略101」二版的序有特別做這個期許。"],["羅委員智強：非常謝謝秘書長。所以在這邊我希望，我們透過多次的議事過程當中，其實我覺得都是好事，大家可能有一些摩擦、衝突，就是衝突、妥協、進步，慢慢地讓我們的議事更能夠順應民意，能夠代表人民來監督政府，這一點就很重要。比方，舉個例子，我現在也在提案，我要提一個神盾局的條款，什麼叫神盾局條款？我會提案修改我們的一些議事規章，主席當然可以宣布休息，我覺得是沒有問題的，但主席宣布休息可不可以加一個開始和結束時間，起訖時間告訴大家，不要突然3個小時消失不見，這樣子耗盡所有人的時間在那邊等也不太好，我覺得休息要加時間，我不知道秘書長覺得這樣的建議是不是可以讓大家至少知道時間，休息時我們就去做很多我們自己該做的事情，因為每個委員都有很多想要做的事情嘛，那你要休息3小時的話，你就宣布休息3小時，3小時再回來開會啊，我不知道訂起訖時間你會不會覺得是一個比較好的作法呢？"],["周秘書長萬來：我想在禮拜二的院會，院長也有做一個……各位有看到禮拜二的情況，因為我們也有把時間稍微跟大會報告。現在的議事規則裡面，酌定休息時間當然是一個彈性的作法，當時為什麼立這個法是為了有一個彈性規範的休息時間。"],["羅委員智強：好，謝謝秘書長。","最後，我們就來看看，我為什麼跟大家講，我真的覺得民進黨版的國會改革，說真的，我看了以後有一個很大的感想，叫做怨總召變了心，以前有一首歌叫做怨蒼天變了心，我是怨總召變了心。因為我自己這段時間真的很努力地在看民進黨2016年跟2024年的版本，我越看越覺得到底是以前的柯總召有問題，還是現在的柯總召有問題，我開始覺得越來越困惑。我舉個例子，為什麼我剛剛特別強調，我真的希望針對民進黨2024的版本，可以多開幾場公聽會，大家一起來討論，原因是什麼？因為很多東西我真的、真的是看不懂，舉個例子，我不太懂為什麼2016年民進黨的版本要求相關行政機關提供議案的文件要提供原本，可是民進黨現在就把這些原本全部刪掉，說只能提供所謂的參考文件，必要時才能夠提供原本，這是我第一個不解的，為什麼要自我閹割呢？閹割的原因是什麼呢？是不是需要開公聽會來跟社會大眾說明，也許有高深的學問，羅智強智力不足啦，可能不知道、不懂為什麼今天民進黨的版本是這樣。再比方說民進黨現在新的版本當中，也包括對人事同意權的行使過程，本來2016年的版本是要求記名投票，到2024年，奇怪，怎麼變成不記名投票？我也不太懂，今天我們的立法院正副院長都進步到應該要用所謂的記名投票了，為什麼今天民進黨版的國會改革很奇怪，突然就好像又不需要公開透明了。還有包括民進黨2016年的版本是直接明文處罰說謊官員哦！有好多處罰態樣，處罰1萬到30萬元，秘書長知道嘛，對不對？可是民進黨2024年版本非常神奇的是，它特別把處罰說謊官員那一段刪掉，也就是說，所有的態樣裡面，說謊官員是不罰的，這麼神奇的民進黨2024國會改革版本，真的要拿出來多開公聽會，讓大家『聞香」，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝羅委員，也謝謝秘書長。在這裡因為有提及本席跟吳宗憲召委在輪值主席時有關公聽會的部分，跟委員會報告說明，在這次國會改革相關的法案中，由吳召委主持的會議中安排了1場公聽會，本席輪值主席的時候安排了2場公聽會，所以這3場公聽會分別是由我們兩個人共同來完成的，也請我們委員會在場的委員瞭解。","接下來請陳委員俊宇發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":160,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-17","speakers":["鍾佳濱","范雲","羅智強","陳俊宇","沈伯洋","沈發惠","莊瑞雄","黃國昌","林思銘","吳思瑤","柯建銘","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","王鴻薇","翁曉玲","傅崐萁","吳宗憲","謝龍介"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-04-25"],"gazette_id":"1133401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133401_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、繼續審查(一)民進黨黨團擬具「立法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案、(二)委員高金素梅等\n23人擬具「立法院組織法第三十二條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「立法院組\n織法第三條、第五條及第三十二條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員高金素梅等17人擬具「立法院組\n織法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；二、繼續審查(一)民進黨黨團擬具「立法委員行為法第七條\n之一及第三十條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「立法委員行為法部分條文修正\n草案」案、(三)委員范雲等18人擬具「立法委員行為法第七條條文修正草案」案；三、繼續審查\n( 一) 民進黨黨團擬具「立法院議事規則第四十七條、第四十八條及第五十二條條文修正草案」\n案、( 二) 委員賴瑞隆等16 人擬具「立法院議事規則第九條、第二十二條及第五十條條文修正草\n案」案；四、(一)繼續審查民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案、(二)繼\n續審查委員呂玉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)繼續審\n查委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」\n案、( 四 ) 繼續審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kaaw 等19 人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(五)繼續審查委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案、(六)審查\n委員羅智強等22人擬具「立法院職權行使法第二十五條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133401_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"151724","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151724","tool":"pyannote","id":"151724-pyannote"},"job_id":"HxLm9TrXPmmMh0gj","queued_at":"2024-05-31 17:52:14","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 17:52:14","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151724"},{"time":"2024-05-31 17:52:15","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/37a05b44d500ce15087f36c94149075ce44e652c0c420c2318019a0b70fe733b575f0c0cec024c425ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-05-31 17:52:32","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-05-31 17:52:34","msg":"running pyannote"},{"time":"2024-05-31 17:52:45","msg":"status: 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631.228, \"end\": 632.19, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"聽\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 632.19, \"end\": 632.35, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 632.35, \"end\": 632.53, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 632.53, \"end\": 632.751, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"胖\", \"start\": 632.751, \"end\": 633.011, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 633.011, \"end\": 633.031, \"score\": 0.195}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,598 --> 00:00:11,483\n主席有請周秘書長請周秘書長\n\n2\n00:00:16,841 --> 00:00:18,122\n主席賴瑞隆\n\n3\n00:00:42,652 --> 00:01:04,320\n說真的我最近看到有關於國會改革的這幾波我們大家的討論或是攻防那我從中也學習到很多那第一個我就要想要就教一些我們的那個周秘書長就是說當國民黨就提出了國會改革無法之後\n\n4\n00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:20,485\n其實我們一直很努力的來去盡量能夠去廣納意見所以我看到我們的吳宗憲、昭偉當提出了我們在推這個國會改革無法的時候那民進黨就覺得是討論不夠啊對不對那時候說討論不夠嘛所以討論不夠結果我們現在我們就安排一場關於國民黨版的國會改革無法一場專報\n\n5\n00:01:29,967 --> 00:01:35,871\n還覺得不夠我們排了一場公聽會那民進黨就直接還講說一場公聽會不夠啊要更多人聽到啊所以就我們的吳宗憲招委還特別嚴審兩個禮拜本來排定要來審國民黨版的國會改革無法還嚴審了兩個禮拜\n\n6\n00:01:48,818 --> 00:01:51,019\n然後呢就讓民進黨可以再加開兩場公聽會一場專報三場公聽會請問吳宗憲的召委這樣做法是不是很獨裁啊覺得呢\n\n7\n00:02:02,263 --> 00:02:26,729\n因為這一個由召集委員來排定這一個因為我們各位組織法規定是委員會的議程是由召集委員來排定沒錯所以大概兩個召集委員都會有排這一個我是未變說這一個是到底是很場次的多少因為這一個大概我未變說明當然我知道你未變說明\n\n8\n00:02:28,109 --> 00:02:44,285\n但是我要跟各位講然後吳宗憲召委贏得了民進黨兩次的所謂的一個譴責提案然後就說他很獨裁這是民進黨對吳宗憲召委的待遇那接下來在這邊我想一想就是\n\n9\n00:02:45,146 --> 00:02:59,754\n章偉你真的是做得不夠啦對不對你這樣做人家也不滿意對不對所以可是哈如果是這樣的話我倒是對民進黨這次提出的國會改革無法為一個很很這個個人的建議啊如果吳宗憲章偉做得不夠\n\n10\n00:03:00,774 --> 00:03:06,400\n我建議民進黨的國會改革無法,國會改革的版本尤其吳仕堯講這跟國民黨不一樣嘛不一樣的話應該要更廣納社會大眾意見不如開兩場專報五場公聽會好不好如果做不到吳宗憲召委一場專報三場公聽會的話沒有關係比照就是讓我們的民進黨的國會改革\n\n11\n00:03:24,258 --> 00:03:38,708\n版本好好的就像國民黨的國會改革版本一樣透過專報跟三場公聽會讓社會大眾檢驗讓大家好好看看說民進黨的國會改革版本到底是怎麼樣一回事我不知道我們的秘書長你覺得這個主意怎麼樣呢\n\n12\n00:03:41,142 --> 00:03:55,819\n指重召集委員因為今天的召集委員是因為各黨團都有一位召集委員對對對我其實跟米斯坦問的時候也同時在建議我們的這個中嘉賓召委也同時建議我們的底下的民進黨的這個委員們\n\n13\n00:03:57,941 --> 00:04:14,375\n竟然民進黨版的這個國會改革這麼的重要那基本上我覺得是可以讓社會大臣有更多時間好好的來討論所以今天我們不如就讓我們今天大家各自表達意見之後的話是不是也請我們的中嘉賓的昭偉\n\n14\n00:04:15,296 --> 00:04:44,209\n能夠從善如流學學吳宗憲召委的風度或者是獨裁啦風度啦就說你們提案說你們說唉這公聽會不夠要再加開對不對阿吳宗憲召委就馬上就兩個禮拜嚴審阿嚴審法案就讓我們的民進黨可以召開公聽會啦所以我覺得真的是比照一下吳宗憲這個召委的做法齁如果說吳宗憲召委的做法我也幫吳宗憲召委說句話啦如果吳宗憲召委的做法叫做\n\n15\n00:04:45,369 --> 00:05:00,753\n獨裁的話那我要就校一下我們的那個周岸玉算你也看過立法院風風雨雨幾十年了對不對你知道民進黨執政八年常常開會五分鐘直接強行表決然後就散會啦表決五分鐘對不對因為人家人數多數嘛優勢嘛碾壓完就散會啦\n\n16\n00:05:09,138 --> 00:05:35,105\n你不要講說國民黨想開公聽會沒得談專報沒得談對不對﹖連討論都給你五分鐘給你研究掉啊我想請問如果吳宗憲、張偉他主持會議六個小時的討論對不對然後一次專報三次公聽會這叫獨裁我不知道民進黨這叫什麼皇帝嗎是秦始皇嗎還是說今天是朱元璋大帝呢\n\n17\n00:05:35,945 --> 00:05:54,018\n那到底是怎麼回事我不知道五分鐘結束了一個所謂的立法院的一個委員會的討論比較獨裁還是今天吳宗憲召委六小時然後一場專報三場公聽會比較獨裁呢我不知道秘書長從你的多年的經驗你怎麼看這件事情\n\n18\n00:05:55,639 --> 00:06:18,491\n其實我離開九仁多啦,中間我的書裏面也有稍微做幾個版的修正啦。其實我在昨天學長的序裏面有提過啦。就是說當時對第十屆的院長當任的時候,我有特別在序有特別強調希望能夠這一個制度上回歸到在\n\n19\n00:06:19,491 --> 00:06:37,868\n議事規範大家能夠遵守的範圍。」我記得我昨天已經有那個三版的序我有特別做這個期許非常謝謝秘書長所以在這邊我就是希望說我們透過這多次的我們這些議事的過程當中比方說其實我覺得都是好事啦\n\n20\n00:06:38,368 --> 00:06:39,989\n議員高金素梅等23人擬具:「立法院組織法部分條文修正草案．立法院組織法部分條文修正草案．立法院組織法部分條\n\n21\n00:07:02,083 --> 00:07:30,473\n案主席當然可以宣布休息這個我覺得是沒有問題的但主席宣布休息可不可以加一個開始跟結束時間啊起勁時間告訴大家一下嘛對不對不要突然三個小時消失不見這樣子耗盡所有人時間在那邊等也不太好我覺得加上就是休息要加時間我不知道民進黨覺得這樣建議會不會讓大家至少知道說那休息我們家就是做很多我們自己該做的事情因為每個委員有很多想要做的事情嘛\n\n22\n00:07:30,993 --> 00:07:39,304\n那你要休息三小時的話你就宣布休息三小時那三小時回來再開會啊我不知道定起氣時間會不會是一個比較好的做法呢?\n\n23\n00:07:41,321 --> 00:08:05,220\n我想在禮拜二在院會我們也有針對院長有做一個各位看到禮拜二的一個情況啦因為我們也把時間有稍微跟大會報告啦那因為現在的議事規則裡面是這個鑿定休息當然是一個彈性的一個當時為什麼立這個法是有一個彈性的規範的休息的\n\n24\n00:08:07,584 --> 00:08:26,602\n謝謝秘書長最後我就來看看為什麼跟大家講我覺得民進黨版的國會改革說真的我覺得是我看了以後有一種很大的感想就叫願總召變了心以前有一首歌叫願昌天變了心我是願總召變了心\n\n25\n00:08:27,102 --> 00:08:54,304\n因為我自己這段時間真的很努力的在看民進黨2016的版本跟2024年的版本我越看越覺得到底是以前的柯總召有問題還是現在的柯總召有問題我開始覺得越來越困惑我舉個例子為什麼剛剛特別強調我真的希望我民進黨的版本的2024的版本可以多開幾場公聽會大家一起來討論原因是什麼因為很多東西我真的真的是看不懂啦比方舉個例子舉個例子就是說\n\n26\n00:08:55,825 --> 00:09:17,120\n我不太懂為什麼2016年的民進黨的版本要求這個提供這個相關行政機關提供議案的文件要提供原本可是民進黨現在就把這些原本全部刪掉就只能提供所謂參考文件要必要時才能夠提供原本這是我第一個不解的為什麼要自我閹割呢這閹割的原因是什麼呢\n\n27\n00:09:19,341 --> 00:09:40,316\n是不是需要開公聽會來跟大家社會大眾也許有高深的學問羅志強智力不足啦可能不知道不懂說今天為什麼民進黨版的這個版本是這個樣子那再比方說民進黨的現在的這個所謂的新的版本當中也包括說對人事同意權的行使過程當中本來2016年版本是要求是記名投票\n\n28\n00:09:41,417 --> 00:09:57,114\n當年24年奇怪怎麼變成不記名投票我也不太懂為什麼今天我們的立法院政府院長都進步到應該要用所謂的記名投票了為什麼今天我們的民進黨版的國會改革很奇怪突然就好像又不需要不需要就是公開透明的還有包括今天\n\n29\n00:10:00,137 --> 00:10:07,160\n民進黨2016年的版本是直接明文處罰說謊官員喔!他有好多的處罰太陽喔!處罰一萬到三十萬元對不對?我這個Mission知道嘛對不對?可是呢民進黨2024年版本非常神奇的是他特別把處罰說謊官員那一段把它刪掉欸!\n\n30\n00:10:22,011 --> 00:10:33,031\n也就是說所有的泰亞裡面說謊官員是不乏的這麼神奇的民進黨的2024的國會改革版本真的要拿出來多開公聽會讓大家比胖啦謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10598\t11483\t主席有請周秘書長請周秘書長\n16841\t18122\t主席賴瑞隆\n42652\t64320\t說真的我最近看到有關於國會改革的這幾波我們大家的討論或是攻防那我從中也學習到很多那第一個我就要想要就教一些我們的那個周秘書長就是說當國民黨就提出了國會改革無法之後\n65080\t80485\t其實我們一直很努力的來去盡量能夠去廣納意見所以我看到我們的吳宗憲、昭偉當提出了我們在推這個國會改革無法的時候那民進黨就覺得是討論不夠啊對不對那時候說討論不夠嘛所以討論不夠結果我們現在我們就安排一場關於國民黨版的國會改革無法一場專報\n89967\t95871\t還覺得不夠我們排了一場公聽會那民進黨就直接還講說一場公聽會不夠啊要更多人聽到啊所以就我們的吳宗憲招委還特別嚴審兩個禮拜本來排定要來審國民黨版的國會改革無法還嚴審了兩個禮拜\n108818\t111019\t然後呢就讓民進黨可以再加開兩場公聽會一場專報三場公聽會請問吳宗憲的召委這樣做法是不是很獨裁啊覺得呢\n122263\t146729\t因為這一個由召集委員來排定這一個因為我們各位組織法規定是委員會的議程是由召集委員來排定沒錯所以大概兩個召集委員都會有排這一個我是未變說這一個是到底是很場次的多少因為這一個大概我未變說明當然我知道你未變說明\n148109\t164285\t但是我要跟各位講然後吳宗憲召委贏得了民進黨兩次的所謂的一個譴責提案然後就說他很獨裁這是民進黨對吳宗憲召委的待遇那接下來在這邊我想一想就是\n165146\t179754\t章偉你真的是做得不夠啦對不對你這樣做人家也不滿意對不對所以可是哈如果是這樣的話我倒是對民進黨這次提出的國會改革無法為一個很很這個個人的建議啊如果吳宗憲章偉做得不夠\n180774\t186400\t我建議民進黨的國會改革無法,國會改革的版本尤其吳仕堯講這跟國民黨不一樣嘛不一樣的話應該要更廣納社會大眾意見不如開兩場專報五場公聽會好不好如果做不到吳宗憲召委一場專報三場公聽會的話沒有關係比照就是讓我們的民進黨的國會改革\n204258\t218708\t版本好好的就像國民黨的國會改革版本一樣透過專報跟三場公聽會讓社會大眾檢驗讓大家好好看看說民進黨的國會改革版本到底是怎麼樣一回事我不知道我們的秘書長你覺得這個主意怎麼樣呢\n221142\t235819\t指重召集委員因為今天的召集委員是因為各黨團都有一位召集委員對對對我其實跟米斯坦問的時候也同時在建議我們的這個中嘉賓召委也同時建議我們的底下的民進黨的這個委員們\n237941\t254375\t竟然民進黨版的這個國會改革這麼的重要那基本上我覺得是可以讓社會大臣有更多時間好好的來討論所以今天我們不如就讓我們今天大家各自表達意見之後的話是不是也請我們的中嘉賓的昭偉\n255296\t284209\t能夠從善如流學學吳宗憲召委的風度或者是獨裁啦風度啦就說你們提案說你們說唉這公聽會不夠要再加開對不對阿吳宗憲召委就馬上就兩個禮拜嚴審阿嚴審法案就讓我們的民進黨可以召開公聽會啦所以我覺得真的是比照一下吳宗憲這個召委的做法齁如果說吳宗憲召委的做法我也幫吳宗憲召委說句話啦如果吳宗憲召委的做法叫做\n285369\t300753\t獨裁的話那我要就校一下我們的那個周岸玉算你也看過立法院風風雨雨幾十年了對不對你知道民進黨執政八年常常開會五分鐘直接強行表決然後就散會啦表決五分鐘對不對因為人家人數多數嘛優勢嘛碾壓完就散會啦\n309138\t335105\t你不要講說國民黨想開公聽會沒得談專報沒得談 對不對﹖連討論都給你五分鐘給你研究掉啊我想請問如果吳宗憲、張偉他主持會議六個小時的討論 對不對然後一次專報三次公聽會這叫獨裁我不知道民進黨這叫什麼皇帝嗎是秦始皇嗎還是說今天是朱元璋大帝呢\n335945\t354018\t那到底是怎麼回事 我不知道五分鐘結束了一個所謂的立法院的一個委員會的討論比較獨裁還是今天吳宗憲召委六小時然後一場專報三場公聽會比較獨裁呢我不知道秘書長從你的多年的經驗你怎麼看這件事情\n355639\t378491\t其實我離開九仁多啦,中間我的書裏面也有稍微做幾個版的修正啦。其實我在昨天學長的序裏面有提過啦。就是說當時對第十屆的院長當任的時候,我有特別在序有特別強調希望能夠這一個制度上回歸到在\n379491\t397868\t議事規範大家能夠遵守的範圍。」我記得我昨天已經有那個三版的序 我有特別做這個期許非常謝謝秘書長所以在這邊我就是希望說我們透過這多次的我們這些議事的過程當中 比方說其實我覺得都是好事啦\n398368\t399989\t議員高金素梅等23人擬具:「立法院組織法部分條文修正草案．立法院組織法部分條文修正草案．立法院組織法部分條\n422083\t450473\t案 主席當然可以宣布休息 這個我覺得是沒有問題的但主席宣布休息可不可以加一個開始跟結束時間啊 起勁時間告訴大家一下嘛 對不對不要突然三個小時消失不見 這樣子耗盡所有人時間在那邊等 也不太好我覺得加上 就是休息要加時間 我不知道民進黨覺得這樣建議會不會讓大家至少知道說 那休息我們家就是做很多我們自己該做的事情 因為每個委員有很多想要做的事情嘛\n450993\t459304\t那你要休息三小時的話你就宣布休息三小時那三小時回來再開會啊我不知道定起氣時間會不會是一個比較好的做法呢?\n461321\t485220\t我想在禮拜二在院會我們也有針對院長有做一個各位看到禮拜二的一個情況啦因為我們也把時間有稍微跟大會報告啦那因為現在的議事規則裡面是這個鑿定休息當然是一個彈性的一個當時為什麼立這個法是有一個彈性的規範的休息的\n487584\t506602\t謝謝秘書長最後我就來看看為什麼跟大家講我覺得民進黨版的國會改革說真的我覺得是我看了以後有一種很大的感想就叫願總召變了心以前有一首歌叫願昌天變了心我是願總召變了心\n507102\t534304\t因為我自己這段時間真的很努力的在看民進黨2016的版本跟2024年的版本我越看越覺得到底是以前的柯總召有問題還是現在的柯總召有問題我開始覺得越來越困惑我舉個例子為什麼剛剛特別強調我真的希望我民進黨的版本的2024的版本可以多開幾場公聽會大家一起來討論原因是什麼因為很多東西我真的真的是看不懂啦比方舉個例子 舉個例子就是說\n535825\t557120\t我不太懂為什麼2016年的民進黨的版本要求這個提供這個相關行政機關提供議案的文件要提供原本可是民進黨現在就把這些原本全部刪掉就只能提供所謂參考文件要必要時才能夠提供原本這是我第一個不解的為什麼要自我閹割呢這閹割的原因是什麼呢\n559341\t580316\t是不是需要開公聽會來跟大家社會大眾也許有高深的學問羅志強智力不足啦可能不知道不懂說今天為什麼民進黨版的這個版本是這個樣子那再比方說民進黨的現在的這個所謂的新的版本當中也包括說對人事同意權的行使過程當中本來2016年版本是要求是記名投票\n581417\t597114\t當年24年奇怪怎麼變成不記名投票我也不太懂為什麼今天我們的立法院政府院長都進步到應該要用所謂的記名投票了為什麼今天我們的民進黨版的國會改革很奇怪突然就好像又不需要不需要就是公開透明的還有包括今天\n600137\t607160\t民進黨2016年的版本是直接明文處罰說謊官員喔!他有好多的處罰太陽喔!處罰一萬到三十萬元對不對?我這個Mission知道嘛對不對?可是呢民進黨2024年版本非常神奇的是他特別把處罰說謊官員那一段把它刪掉欸!\n622011\t633031\t也就是說所有的泰亞裡面說謊官員是不乏的這麼神奇的民進黨的2024的國會改革版本真的要拿出來多開公聽會讓大家比胖啦謝謝\n","txt":"主席有請周秘書長請周秘書長\n主席賴瑞隆\n說真的我最近看到有關於國會改革的這幾波我們大家的討論或是攻防那我從中也學習到很多那第一個我就要想要就教一些我們的那個周秘書長就是說當國民黨就提出了國會改革無法之後\n其實我們一直很努力的來去盡量能夠去廣納意見所以我看到我們的吳宗憲、昭偉當提出了我們在推這個國會改革無法的時候那民進黨就覺得是討論不夠啊對不對那時候說討論不夠嘛所以討論不夠結果我們現在我們就安排一場關於國民黨版的國會改革無法一場專報\n還覺得不夠我們排了一場公聽會那民進黨就直接還講說一場公聽會不夠啊要更多人聽到啊所以就我們的吳宗憲招委還特別嚴審兩個禮拜本來排定要來審國民黨版的國會改革無法還嚴審了兩個禮拜\n然後呢就讓民進黨可以再加開兩場公聽會一場專報三場公聽會請問吳宗憲的召委這樣做法是不是很獨裁啊覺得呢\n因為這一個由召集委員來排定這一個因為我們各位組織法規定是委員會的議程是由召集委員來排定沒錯所以大概兩個召集委員都會有排這一個我是未變說這一個是到底是很場次的多少因為這一個大概我未變說明當然我知道你未變說明\n但是我要跟各位講然後吳宗憲召委贏得了民進黨兩次的所謂的一個譴責提案然後就說他很獨裁這是民進黨對吳宗憲召委的待遇那接下來在這邊我想一想就是\n章偉你真的是做得不夠啦對不對你這樣做人家也不滿意對不對所以可是哈如果是這樣的話我倒是對民進黨這次提出的國會改革無法為一個很很這個個人的建議啊如果吳宗憲章偉做得不夠\n我建議民進黨的國會改革無法,國會改革的版本尤其吳仕堯講這跟國民黨不一樣嘛不一樣的話應該要更廣納社會大眾意見不如開兩場專報五場公聽會好不好如果做不到吳宗憲召委一場專報三場公聽會的話沒有關係比照就是讓我們的民進黨的國會改革\n版本好好的就像國民黨的國會改革版本一樣透過專報跟三場公聽會讓社會大眾檢驗讓大家好好看看說民進黨的國會改革版本到底是怎麼樣一回事我不知道我們的秘書長你覺得這個主意怎麼樣呢\n指重召集委員因為今天的召集委員是因為各黨團都有一位召集委員對對對我其實跟米斯坦問的時候也同時在建議我們的這個中嘉賓召委也同時建議我們的底下的民進黨的這個委員們\n竟然民進黨版的這個國會改革這麼的重要那基本上我覺得是可以讓社會大臣有更多時間好好的來討論所以今天我們不如就讓我們今天大家各自表達意見之後的話是不是也請我們的中嘉賓的昭偉\n能夠從善如流學學吳宗憲召委的風度或者是獨裁啦風度啦就說你們提案說你們說唉這公聽會不夠要再加開對不對阿吳宗憲召委就馬上就兩個禮拜嚴審阿嚴審法案就讓我們的民進黨可以召開公聽會啦所以我覺得真的是比照一下吳宗憲這個召委的做法齁如果說吳宗憲召委的做法我也幫吳宗憲召委說句話啦如果吳宗憲召委的做法叫做\n獨裁的話那我要就校一下我們的那個周岸玉算你也看過立法院風風雨雨幾十年了對不對你知道民進黨執政八年常常開會五分鐘直接強行表決然後就散會啦表決五分鐘對不對因為人家人數多數嘛優勢嘛碾壓完就散會啦\n你不要講說國民黨想開公聽會沒得談專報沒得談 對不對﹖連討論都給你五分鐘給你研究掉啊我想請問如果吳宗憲、張偉他主持會議六個小時的討論 對不對然後一次專報三次公聽會這叫獨裁我不知道民進黨這叫什麼皇帝嗎是秦始皇嗎還是說今天是朱元璋大帝呢\n那到底是怎麼回事 我不知道五分鐘結束了一個所謂的立法院的一個委員會的討論比較獨裁還是今天吳宗憲召委六小時然後一場專報三場公聽會比較獨裁呢我不知道秘書長從你的多年的經驗你怎麼看這件事情\n其實我離開九仁多啦,中間我的書裏面也有稍微做幾個版的修正啦。其實我在昨天學長的序裏面有提過啦。就是說當時對第十屆的院長當任的時候,我有特別在序有特別強調希望能夠這一個制度上回歸到在\n議事規範大家能夠遵守的範圍。」我記得我昨天已經有那個三版的序 我有特別做這個期許非常謝謝秘書長所以在這邊我就是希望說我們透過這多次的我們這些議事的過程當中 比方說其實我覺得都是好事啦\n議員高金素梅等23人擬具:「立法院組織法部分條文修正草案．立法院組織法部分條文修正草案．立法院組織法部分條\n案 主席當然可以宣布休息 這個我覺得是沒有問題的但主席宣布休息可不可以加一個開始跟結束時間啊 起勁時間告訴大家一下嘛 對不對不要突然三個小時消失不見 這樣子耗盡所有人時間在那邊等 也不太好我覺得加上 就是休息要加時間 我不知道民進黨覺得這樣建議會不會讓大家至少知道說 那休息我們家就是做很多我們自己該做的事情 因為每個委員有很多想要做的事情嘛\n那你要休息三小時的話你就宣布休息三小時那三小時回來再開會啊我不知道定起氣時間會不會是一個比較好的做法呢?\n我想在禮拜二在院會我們也有針對院長有做一個各位看到禮拜二的一個情況啦因為我們也把時間有稍微跟大會報告啦那因為現在的議事規則裡面是這個鑿定休息當然是一個彈性的一個當時為什麼立這個法是有一個彈性的規範的休息的\n謝謝秘書長最後我就來看看為什麼跟大家講我覺得民進黨版的國會改革說真的我覺得是我看了以後有一種很大的感想就叫願總召變了心以前有一首歌叫願昌天變了心我是願總召變了心\n因為我自己這段時間真的很努力的在看民進黨2016的版本跟2024年的版本我越看越覺得到底是以前的柯總召有問題還是現在的柯總召有問題我開始覺得越來越困惑我舉個例子為什麼剛剛特別強調我真的希望我民進黨的版本的2024的版本可以多開幾場公聽會大家一起來討論原因是什麼因為很多東西我真的真的是看不懂啦比方舉個例子 舉個例子就是說\n我不太懂為什麼2016年的民進黨的版本要求這個提供這個相關行政機關提供議案的文件要提供原本可是民進黨現在就把這些原本全部刪掉就只能提供所謂參考文件要必要時才能夠提供原本這是我第一個不解的為什麼要自我閹割呢這閹割的原因是什麼呢\n是不是需要開公聽會來跟大家社會大眾也許有高深的學問羅志強智力不足啦可能不知道不懂說今天為什麼民進黨版的這個版本是這個樣子那再比方說民進黨的現在的這個所謂的新的版本當中也包括說對人事同意權的行使過程當中本來2016年版本是要求是記名投票\n當年24年奇怪怎麼變成不記名投票我也不太懂為什麼今天我們的立法院政府院長都進步到應該要用所謂的記名投票了為什麼今天我們的民進黨版的國會改革很奇怪突然就好像又不需要不需要就是公開透明的還有包括今天\n民進黨2016年的版本是直接明文處罰說謊官員喔!他有好多的處罰太陽喔!處罰一萬到三十萬元對不對?我這個Mission知道嘛對不對?可是呢民進黨2024年版本非常神奇的是他特別把處罰說謊官員那一段把它刪掉欸!\n也就是說所有的泰亞裡面說謊官員是不乏的這麼神奇的民進黨的2024的國會改革版本真的要拿出來多開公聽會讓大家比胖啦謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.598 --> 00:11.483\n主席有請周秘書長請周秘書長\n\n00:16.841 --> 00:18.122\n主席賴瑞隆\n\n00:42.652 --> 01:04.320\n說真的我最近看到有關於國會改革的這幾波我們大家的討論或是攻防那我從中也學習到很多那第一個我就要想要就教一些我們的那個周秘書長就是說當國民黨就提出了國會改革無法之後\n\n01:05.080 --> 01:20.485\n其實我們一直很努力的來去盡量能夠去廣納意見所以我看到我們的吳宗憲、昭偉當提出了我們在推這個國會改革無法的時候那民進黨就覺得是討論不夠啊對不對那時候說討論不夠嘛所以討論不夠結果我們現在我們就安排一場關於國民黨版的國會改革無法一場專報\n\n01:29.967 --> 01:35.871\n還覺得不夠我們排了一場公聽會那民進黨就直接還講說一場公聽會不夠啊要更多人聽到啊所以就我們的吳宗憲招委還特別嚴審兩個禮拜本來排定要來審國民黨版的國會改革無法還嚴審了兩個禮拜\n\n01:48.818 --> 01:51.019\n然後呢就讓民進黨可以再加開兩場公聽會一場專報三場公聽會請問吳宗憲的召委這樣做法是不是很獨裁啊覺得呢\n\n02:02.263 --> 02:26.729\n因為這一個由召集委員來排定這一個因為我們各位組織法規定是委員會的議程是由召集委員來排定沒錯所以大概兩個召集委員都會有排這一個我是未變說這一個是到底是很場次的多少因為這一個大概我未變說明當然我知道你未變說明\n\n02:28.109 --> 02:44.285\n但是我要跟各位講然後吳宗憲召委贏得了民進黨兩次的所謂的一個譴責提案然後就說他很獨裁這是民進黨對吳宗憲召委的待遇那接下來在這邊我想一想就是\n\n02:45.146 --> 02:59.754\n章偉你真的是做得不夠啦對不對你這樣做人家也不滿意對不對所以可是哈如果是這樣的話我倒是對民進黨這次提出的國會改革無法為一個很很這個個人的建議啊如果吳宗憲章偉做得不夠\n\n03:00.774 --> 03:06.400\n我建議民進黨的國會改革無法,國會改革的版本尤其吳仕堯講這跟國民黨不一樣嘛不一樣的話應該要更廣納社會大眾意見不如開兩場專報五場公聽會好不好如果做不到吳宗憲召委一場專報三場公聽會的話沒有關係比照就是讓我們的民進黨的國會改革\n\n03:24.258 --> 03:38.708\n版本好好的就像國民黨的國會改革版本一樣透過專報跟三場公聽會讓社會大眾檢驗讓大家好好看看說民進黨的國會改革版本到底是怎麼樣一回事我不知道我們的秘書長你覺得這個主意怎麼樣呢\n\n03:41.142 --> 03:55.819\n指重召集委員因為今天的召集委員是因為各黨團都有一位召集委員對對對我其實跟米斯坦問的時候也同時在建議我們的這個中嘉賓召委也同時建議我們的底下的民進黨的這個委員們\n\n03:57.941 --> 04:14.375\n竟然民進黨版的這個國會改革這麼的重要那基本上我覺得是可以讓社會大臣有更多時間好好的來討論所以今天我們不如就讓我們今天大家各自表達意見之後的話是不是也請我們的中嘉賓的昭偉\n\n04:15.296 --> 04:44.209\n能夠從善如流學學吳宗憲召委的風度或者是獨裁啦風度啦就說你們提案說你們說唉這公聽會不夠要再加開對不對阿吳宗憲召委就馬上就兩個禮拜嚴審阿嚴審法案就讓我們的民進黨可以召開公聽會啦所以我覺得真的是比照一下吳宗憲這個召委的做法齁如果說吳宗憲召委的做法我也幫吳宗憲召委說句話啦如果吳宗憲召委的做法叫做\n\n04:45.369 --> 05:00.753\n獨裁的話那我要就校一下我們的那個周岸玉算你也看過立法院風風雨雨幾十年了對不對你知道民進黨執政八年常常開會五分鐘直接強行表決然後就散會啦表決五分鐘對不對因為人家人數多數嘛優勢嘛碾壓完就散會啦\n\n05:09.138 --> 05:35.105\n你不要講說國民黨想開公聽會沒得談專報沒得談對不對﹖連討論都給你五分鐘給你研究掉啊我想請問如果吳宗憲、張偉他主持會議六個小時的討論對不對然後一次專報三次公聽會這叫獨裁我不知道民進黨這叫什麼皇帝嗎是秦始皇嗎還是說今天是朱元璋大帝呢\n\n05:35.945 --> 05:54.018\n那到底是怎麼回事我不知道五分鐘結束了一個所謂的立法院的一個委員會的討論比較獨裁還是今天吳宗憲召委六小時然後一場專報三場公聽會比較獨裁呢我不知道秘書長從你的多年的經驗你怎麼看這件事情\n\n05:55.639 --> 06:18.491\n其實我離開九仁多啦,中間我的書裏面也有稍微做幾個版的修正啦。其實我在昨天學長的序裏面有提過啦。就是說當時對第十屆的院長當任的時候,我有特別在序有特別強調希望能夠這一個制度上回歸到在\n\n06:19.491 --> 06:37.868\n議事規範大家能夠遵守的範圍。」我記得我昨天已經有那個三版的序我有特別做這個期許非常謝謝秘書長所以在這邊我就是希望說我們透過這多次的我們這些議事的過程當中比方說其實我覺得都是好事啦\n\n06:38.368 --> 06:39.989\n議員高金素梅等23人擬具:「立法院組織法部分條文修正草案．立法院組織法部分條文修正草案．立法院組織法部分條\n\n07:02.083 --> 07:30.473\n案主席當然可以宣布休息這個我覺得是沒有問題的但主席宣布休息可不可以加一個開始跟結束時間啊起勁時間告訴大家一下嘛對不對不要突然三個小時消失不見這樣子耗盡所有人時間在那邊等也不太好我覺得加上就是休息要加時間我不知道民進黨覺得這樣建議會不會讓大家至少知道說那休息我們家就是做很多我們自己該做的事情因為每個委員有很多想要做的事情嘛\n\n07:30.993 --> 07:39.304\n那你要休息三小時的話你就宣布休息三小時那三小時回來再開會啊我不知道定起氣時間會不會是一個比較好的做法呢?\n\n07:41.321 --> 08:05.220\n我想在禮拜二在院會我們也有針對院長有做一個各位看到禮拜二的一個情況啦因為我們也把時間有稍微跟大會報告啦那因為現在的議事規則裡面是這個鑿定休息當然是一個彈性的一個當時為什麼立這個法是有一個彈性的規範的休息的\n\n08:07.584 --> 08:26.602\n謝謝秘書長最後我就來看看為什麼跟大家講我覺得民進黨版的國會改革說真的我覺得是我看了以後有一種很大的感想就叫願總召變了心以前有一首歌叫願昌天變了心我是願總召變了心\n\n08:27.102 --> 08:54.304\n因為我自己這段時間真的很努力的在看民進黨2016的版本跟2024年的版本我越看越覺得到底是以前的柯總召有問題還是現在的柯總召有問題我開始覺得越來越困惑我舉個例子為什麼剛剛特別強調我真的希望我民進黨的版本的2024的版本可以多開幾場公聽會大家一起來討論原因是什麼因為很多東西我真的真的是看不懂啦比方舉個例子舉個例子就是說\n\n08:55.825 --> 09:17.120\n我不太懂為什麼2016年的民進黨的版本要求這個提供這個相關行政機關提供議案的文件要提供原本可是民進黨現在就把這些原本全部刪掉就只能提供所謂參考文件要必要時才能夠提供原本這是我第一個不解的為什麼要自我閹割呢這閹割的原因是什麼呢\n\n09:19.341 --> 09:40.316\n是不是需要開公聽會來跟大家社會大眾也許有高深的學問羅志強智力不足啦可能不知道不懂說今天為什麼民進黨版的這個版本是這個樣子那再比方說民進黨的現在的這個所謂的新的版本當中也包括說對人事同意權的行使過程當中本來2016年版本是要求是記名投票\n\n09:41.417 --> 09:57.114\n當年24年奇怪怎麼變成不記名投票我也不太懂為什麼今天我們的立法院政府院長都進步到應該要用所謂的記名投票了為什麼今天我們的民進黨版的國會改革很奇怪突然就好像又不需要不需要就是公開透明的還有包括今天\n\n10:00.137 --> 10:07.160\n民進黨2016年的版本是直接明文處罰說謊官員喔!他有好多的處罰太陽喔!處罰一萬到三十萬元對不對?我這個Mission知道嘛對不對?可是呢民進黨2024年版本非常神奇的是他特別把處罰說謊官員那一段把它刪掉欸!\n\n10:22.011 --> 10:33.031\n也就是說所有的泰亞裡面說謊官員是不乏的這麼神奇的民進黨的2024的國會改革版本真的要拿出來多開公聽會讓大家比胖啦謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.598,"end":11.483,"text":"主席有請周秘書長請周秘書長"},{"start":16.841,"end":18.122,"text":"主席賴瑞隆"},{"start":42.652,"end":64.32,"text":"說真的我最近看到有關於國會改革的這幾波我們大家的討論或是攻防那我從中也學習到很多那第一個我就要想要就教一些我們的那個周秘書長就是說當國民黨就提出了國會改革無法之後"},{"start":65.08,"end":80.485,"text":"其實我們一直很努力的來去盡量能夠去廣納意見所以我看到我們的吳宗憲、昭偉當提出了我們在推這個國會改革無法的時候那民進黨就覺得是討論不夠啊對不對那時候說討論不夠嘛所以討論不夠結果我們現在我們就安排一場關於國民黨版的國會改革無法一場專報"},{"start":89.967,"end":95.871,"text":"還覺得不夠我們排了一場公聽會那民進黨就直接還講說一場公聽會不夠啊要更多人聽到啊所以就我們的吳宗憲招委還特別嚴審兩個禮拜本來排定要來審國民黨版的國會改革無法還嚴審了兩個禮拜"},{"start":108.818,"end":111.019,"text":"然後呢就讓民進黨可以再加開兩場公聽會一場專報三場公聽會請問吳宗憲的召委這樣做法是不是很獨裁啊覺得呢"},{"start":122.263,"end":146.729,"text":"因為這一個由召集委員來排定這一個因為我們各位組織法規定是委員會的議程是由召集委員來排定沒錯所以大概兩個召集委員都會有排這一個我是未變說這一個是到底是很場次的多少因為這一個大概我未變說明當然我知道你未變說明"},{"start":148.109,"end":164.285,"text":"但是我要跟各位講然後吳宗憲召委贏得了民進黨兩次的所謂的一個譴責提案然後就說他很獨裁這是民進黨對吳宗憲召委的待遇那接下來在這邊我想一想就是"},{"start":165.146,"end":179.754,"text":"章偉你真的是做得不夠啦對不對你這樣做人家也不滿意對不對所以可是哈如果是這樣的話我倒是對民進黨這次提出的國會改革無法為一個很很這個個人的建議啊如果吳宗憲章偉做得不夠"},{"start":180.774,"end":186.4,"text":"我建議民進黨的國會改革無法,國會改革的版本尤其吳仕堯講這跟國民黨不一樣嘛不一樣的話應該要更廣納社會大眾意見不如開兩場專報五場公聽會好不好如果做不到吳宗憲召委一場專報三場公聽會的話沒有關係比照就是讓我們的民進黨的國會改革"},{"start":204.258,"end":218.708,"text":"版本好好的就像國民黨的國會改革版本一樣透過專報跟三場公聽會讓社會大眾檢驗讓大家好好看看說民進黨的國會改革版本到底是怎麼樣一回事我不知道我們的秘書長你覺得這個主意怎麼樣呢"},{"start":221.142,"end":235.819,"text":"指重召集委員因為今天的召集委員是因為各黨團都有一位召集委員對對對我其實跟米斯坦問的時候也同時在建議我們的這個中嘉賓召委也同時建議我們的底下的民進黨的這個委員們"},{"start":237.941,"end":254.375,"text":"竟然民進黨版的這個國會改革這麼的重要那基本上我覺得是可以讓社會大臣有更多時間好好的來討論所以今天我們不如就讓我們今天大家各自表達意見之後的話是不是也請我們的中嘉賓的昭偉"},{"start":255.296,"end":284.209,"text":"能夠從善如流學學吳宗憲召委的風度或者是獨裁啦風度啦就說你們提案說你們說唉這公聽會不夠要再加開對不對阿吳宗憲召委就馬上就兩個禮拜嚴審阿嚴審法案就讓我們的民進黨可以召開公聽會啦所以我覺得真的是比照一下吳宗憲這個召委的做法齁如果說吳宗憲召委的做法我也幫吳宗憲召委說句話啦如果吳宗憲召委的做法叫做"},{"start":285.369,"end":300.753,"text":"獨裁的話那我要就校一下我們的那個周岸玉算你也看過立法院風風雨雨幾十年了對不對你知道民進黨執政八年常常開會五分鐘直接強行表決然後就散會啦表決五分鐘對不對因為人家人數多數嘛優勢嘛碾壓完就散會啦"},{"start":309.138,"end":335.105,"text":"你不要講說國民黨想開公聽會沒得談專報沒得談 對不對﹖連討論都給你五分鐘給你研究掉啊我想請問如果吳宗憲、張偉他主持會議六個小時的討論 對不對然後一次專報三次公聽會這叫獨裁我不知道民進黨這叫什麼皇帝嗎是秦始皇嗎還是說今天是朱元璋大帝呢"},{"start":335.945,"end":354.018,"text":"那到底是怎麼回事 我不知道五分鐘結束了一個所謂的立法院的一個委員會的討論比較獨裁還是今天吳宗憲召委六小時然後一場專報三場公聽會比較獨裁呢我不知道秘書長從你的多年的經驗你怎麼看這件事情"},{"start":355.639,"end":378.491,"text":"其實我離開九仁多啦,中間我的書裏面也有稍微做幾個版的修正啦。其實我在昨天學長的序裏面有提過啦。就是說當時對第十屆的院長當任的時候,我有特別在序有特別強調希望能夠這一個制度上回歸到在"},{"start":379.491,"end":397.868,"text":"議事規範大家能夠遵守的範圍。」我記得我昨天已經有那個三版的序 我有特別做這個期許非常謝謝秘書長所以在這邊我就是希望說我們透過這多次的我們這些議事的過程當中 比方說其實我覺得都是好事啦"},{"start":398.368,"end":399.989,"text":"議員高金素梅等23人擬具:「立法院組織法部分條文修正草案．立法院組織法部分條文修正草案．立法院組織法部分條"},{"start":422.083,"end":450.473,"text":"案 主席當然可以宣布休息 這個我覺得是沒有問題的但主席宣布休息可不可以加一個開始跟結束時間啊 起勁時間告訴大家一下嘛 對不對不要突然三個小時消失不見 這樣子耗盡所有人時間在那邊等 也不太好我覺得加上 就是休息要加時間 我不知道民進黨覺得這樣建議會不會讓大家至少知道說 那休息我們家就是做很多我們自己該做的事情 因為每個委員有很多想要做的事情嘛"},{"start":450.993,"end":459.304,"text":"那你要休息三小時的話你就宣布休息三小時那三小時回來再開會啊我不知道定起氣時間會不會是一個比較好的做法呢?"},{"start":461.321,"end":485.22,"text":"我想在禮拜二在院會我們也有針對院長有做一個各位看到禮拜二的一個情況啦因為我們也把時間有稍微跟大會報告啦那因為現在的議事規則裡面是這個鑿定休息當然是一個彈性的一個當時為什麼立這個法是有一個彈性的規範的休息的"},{"start":487.584,"end":506.602,"text":"謝謝秘書長最後我就來看看為什麼跟大家講我覺得民進黨版的國會改革說真的我覺得是我看了以後有一種很大的感想就叫願總召變了心以前有一首歌叫願昌天變了心我是願總召變了心"},{"start":507.102,"end":534.304,"text":"因為我自己這段時間真的很努力的在看民進黨2016的版本跟2024年的版本我越看越覺得到底是以前的柯總召有問題還是現在的柯總召有問題我開始覺得越來越困惑我舉個例子為什麼剛剛特別強調我真的希望我民進黨的版本的2024的版本可以多開幾場公聽會大家一起來討論原因是什麼因為很多東西我真的真的是看不懂啦比方舉個例子 舉個例子就是說"},{"start":535.825,"end":557.12,"text":"我不太懂為什麼2016年的民進黨的版本要求這個提供這個相關行政機關提供議案的文件要提供原本可是民進黨現在就把這些原本全部刪掉就只能提供所謂參考文件要必要時才能夠提供原本這是我第一個不解的為什麼要自我閹割呢這閹割的原因是什麼呢"},{"start":559.341,"end":580.316,"text":"是不是需要開公聽會來跟大家社會大眾也許有高深的學問羅志強智力不足啦可能不知道不懂說今天為什麼民進黨版的這個版本是這個樣子那再比方說民進黨的現在的這個所謂的新的版本當中也包括說對人事同意權的行使過程當中本來2016年版本是要求是記名投票"},{"start":581.417,"end":597.114,"text":"當年24年奇怪怎麼變成不記名投票我也不太懂為什麼今天我們的立法院政府院長都進步到應該要用所謂的記名投票了為什麼今天我們的民進黨版的國會改革很奇怪突然就好像又不需要不需要就是公開透明的還有包括今天"},{"start":600.137,"end":607.16,"text":"民進黨2016年的版本是直接明文處罰說謊官員喔!他有好多的處罰太陽喔!處罰一萬到三十萬元對不對?我這個Mission知道嘛對不對?可是呢民進黨2024年版本非常神奇的是他特別把處罰說謊官員那一段把它刪掉欸!"},{"start":622.011,"end":633.031,"text":"也就是說所有的泰亞裡面說謊官員是不乏的這麼神奇的民進黨的2024的國會改革版本真的要拿出來多開公聽會讓大家比胖啦謝謝"}]}}}}