{"id":151769,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151769","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/37a05b44d500ce150758d76e68d5212ac97d93183120460dc68e374cd8c4bed0d6c0f0b264154b055ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳瑩","委員發言時間":"12:34:58 - 12:49:42","影片長度":"00:14:44","會議時間":"2024-04-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、法務部、原住民族委員會、內政部、衛生福利部就「就業服務法上路逾三十年，針對就業促進、歧視禁止、外國勞動力權益保障等面向進行全面檢視」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月22日、24日及25日三天一次會】）","date":"2024-04-25","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-13"},"duration":884,"end_time":"2024-04-25T12:49:42+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-25T12:34:58+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1168,"blocks":[["陳委員瑩：（12時35分）謝謝主席，我們先請原民會社福處羅處長。"],["主席：請羅處長。"],["羅處長赫踛：委員好。"],["陳委員瑩：羅處長好。我今天的問題很簡單，就是原住民男性從事營建工程的比例占了24.76%，所以每四位原住民勞工就有一位從事營造業。再來就是我在去年4月12號就有提案，主要是因為政府從112年重新開放營造業引進外籍勞工，我們非常擔心會嚴重排擠到原住民勞工的就業機會。這不只是我的擔心而已，我想很多族人都有面臨到這樣的問題，所以我特別在去年4月12號提案要求補助事業單位促進原住民族就業計畫，那到底要等到什麼時候才可以送到勞動部來排案？我特別關心這個問題，因為不是只有我關心，在我提出之後，有好幾位原住民的立委，不分黨派都緊盯著我，然後跟著我的後面，一直很用力的在支持這樣的案子，所以要請教你這個時程。"],["羅處長赫踛：跟委員報告一下，我們在3月的時候有分別拜訪就業安定基金委員會裡面的兩位委員，希望徵求委員更多的指導來完善我們那個計畫，目前已經完成這個事項，也做好相關的方案，然後我們最近也透過國會組，希望先到委員那邊，先跟委員再去做一個說明……"],["陳委員瑩：所以你就是還沒有排嘛，然後我現在要問你，什麼時候要送到勞動部去排案？"],["羅處長赫踛：對，如果這一期的就業安定基金有開會的話，我們會以最近一期的那部分先去做一個提案，目前大概也是因為在交接期間，我們也要先跟新的主委去報告這個事情，那長官是非常關心。以上。"],["陳委員瑩：所以520之前還不會送嘛？"],["羅處長赫踛：是，應該是在520之後。"],["陳委員瑩：所以你到底什麼時候才要送？"],["羅處長赫踛：我們……"],["陳委員瑩：我怕你等到下一任上任，又說要等下下一任的交接。"],["羅處長赫踛：我們會儘快，因為已經差不多研議完成了。"],["陳委員瑩：都差不多了，是不是？"],["羅處長赫踛：是，那我會再跟委員報告。"],["陳委員瑩：你可不可以自己給自己一個期許、一個日期，520交接之後要接任的主委現在也在你們會裡面，也是常常可以見面，你們都很熟嘛。"],["羅處長赫踛：是。"],["陳委員瑩：都可以事先先討論，看他的態度怎麼樣。"],["羅處長赫踛：好，我會儘快來跟……"],["陳委員瑩：我覺得你自己給個日期嘛，還是說你接下來會不會留任也不知道？"],["羅處長赫踛：是，要看勞動部他們最近召開的時間，我們再……"],["陳委員瑩：要看勞動部召開的時間你才要送，這樣不是很奇怪？"],["羅處長赫踛：就是那個召開就業安定基金委員會的……"],["陳委員瑩：你要先送給他們！"],["羅處長赫踛：對，我們儘快送。"],["陳委員瑩：對啊！你要送給他們，他們才召開，不是嗎？"],["羅處長赫踛：是。"],["陳委員瑩：那你怎麼會說等他們什麼時候召開你們才要送，你在講什麼？"],["羅處長赫踛：他們應該是半年召開一次。"],["陳委員瑩：蛤？"],["羅處長赫踛：對，我是說，對，只要有召開……"],["陳委員瑩：我這麼簡單問你一個問題，我就是問日期而已，你就不能講個日期嗎？"],["羅處長赫踛：那是不是差不多520之後，大概在6月的時候，我們是希望可以送出去。"],["陳委員瑩：所以你到時候還會在社福處，是不是？這個應該事先，就乾脆在交接前，你們可以就先送了嘛。"],["羅處長赫踛：好，那我們儘快。"],["陳委員瑩：就莫名其妙，這個事情去年到現在講那麼久了，你竟然還要等到新任的主委來交接，然後才可以處理好這件事情。怎麼簡單一個日期的問題，問到現在我的時間剩下4分鐘，好吧，你先下去，這個事情我覺得交接前就可以先送的，難道夷將當主委講的話都不算嗎？做的決定也都不算嗎？你們趕工一下嘛。"],["羅處長赫踛：是。"],["陳委員瑩：好，謝謝。麻煩主席再請蔡署長，還有條平司黃司長。"],["主席：請蔡署長、黃司長。"],["蔡署長孟良：委員好。"],["陳委員瑩：好，我要講一下這個我覺得蠻嚴重的問題，你們先看一下這個廣告的傳單，這裡面的內容是不是正確？然後這個部分攸關外籍勞工的權益。黃司長，性別平等工作法有沒有第二十一條之一？"],["黃司長維琛：是第二十條第一項。"],["陳委員瑩：好，其實這個法就是沒有第二十一條之一，我沒有講錯，我只是問問題，沒有就講沒有，你也沒有回答錯。好，這個傳單的內容應該就是指第二十一條，前提就是外勞先要有參加就業保險，那我就要請教，外籍勞工他們可不可以參加就業保險？"],["黃司長維琛：外籍勞工不能參加就業保險。"],["陳委員瑩：好，謝謝，正確。那我就直接單刀直入的問了，所以裡面所提到的各項權益包括有薪產檢假、陪產檢假還有產假、安胎休養請假、育嬰留職停薪以及家庭照顧假等部分是不是都適用於外籍勞工？"],["黃司長維琛：在這些假的部分有適用，申請育嬰留職停薪的話，會沒有津貼。"],["陳委員瑩：好，更何況這個部分有涉及準爸爸的權益以及這個家庭，所以我要請教外籍勞工雙方可不可以在我國登記結婚？"],["蔡署長孟良：報告委員，是可以，根據移民法……"],["陳委員瑩：他們可以結婚，但是可不可以登記結婚？"],["蔡署長孟良：跟委員報告，據我們瞭解，目前移民署是說在國內他們可以登記結婚。"],["陳委員瑩：可以登記結婚？"],["蔡署長孟良：對，據我瞭解依法是可以。"],["陳委員瑩：你確定？勞動部有沒有不同的意見？你要先弄清楚法規，我明明看到就業保險法第五條的規定，你說可以登記結婚？"],["蔡署長孟良：對，跟委員報告，在過去確實有發生過案例，我們有請教過移民署，目前在移民法的規定其實是沒有排除的。"],["陳委員瑩：所以現在是可以登記結婚？"],["蔡署長孟良：對，可以登記，但是他不能……"],["陳委員瑩：可以認定準爸爸？"],["蔡署長孟良：對，但是他不能以這個為理由來改變他的居留身分。"],["陳委員瑩：我知道，我是打問號，對於到底能不能登記結婚這件事情，我覺得我們可能都需要再……"],["蔡署長孟良：委員，是不是我們會後再進一步把它明確化？"],["陳委員瑩：你們現在要不要先問一下？我一邊質詢然後你們先問一下。"],["蔡署長孟良：我們瞭解一下。"],["陳委員瑩：因為我不太清楚是我沒有跟上他們修改的腳步還是怎麼樣。黃司長，你先請回座。接下來我要請你們看另外一張傳單，這是宣稱由彰化縣政府委託就安基金補助的宣導資料，那我請問蔡署長，你們有沒有補助這樣的內容？"],["蔡署長孟良：跟委員報告，關於外國人生育諮詢服務中心這個部分，目前這個應該是彰化縣政府補助。"],["陳委員瑩：這個裡面有提到可以解約後60天申請暫緩轉換雇主，那產後60天內可以申請恢復轉換雇主，並且延長60天的工作期限，我想請教這是真的嗎？有法源依據嗎？"],["蔡署長孟良：懷孕移工跟雇主雙方可能因為工作上沒有辦法調配……"],["陳委員瑩：所以這個沒有問題嘛！"],["蔡署長孟良：他們解約後這個是可以，我們有這樣的協助。"],["陳委員瑩：好，那這個沒有問題，根據勞動基法第五十條第一項的規定，在生小孩前後可以請8個星期的產假，我們在這裡先不討論流產假的部分，我國勞工的產假是56天，外籍勞工的產假有60天，比我國的勞工更多嗎？他們60天，我們56天。"],["蔡署長孟良：委員，這裡的60天是他在解約之後，他可能因為在轉換雇主這個時間，我們大概會有60天。"],["陳委員瑩：對，這個不管啦！簡單來講，結論就是我國勞工的產假是56天，但是外籍勞工可以有60天，這個就是結論啦！對不對？好，不管中間怎麼樣，結論目前就是這個樣子。我們今天指出了這兩張傳單，我覺得好像勞動部都在鼓勵外籍勞工在臺灣生育，而且福利待遇甚至比本國勞工還要更好，在這個傳單裡面都有單位名稱還有聯絡的方式，但是也沒有看到勞動部有做任何的澄清或說明，說明我國非常重視外籍勞工的權益，而不是鼓勵他們在臺灣非法生育。如果說這些都是真的，那這麼重要的權益措施你們應該要發布新聞稿，並在官網上面公布，而不是讓人家這樣子宣傳，導致有很多人誤解。署長，你後續會不會有正式的相關公布或澄清說明？"],["蔡署長孟良：謝謝委員提醒我們，因為我們也發現有些訊息可能不正確，我們會再重新檢討。"],["陳委員瑩：對啊！否則大家就覺得太好了，我們都來這裡非法生小孩。如果這個資料是錯誤的，請問有沒有意圖透過協助保障外籍勞工權益而實際上是來獲得你們這個安置費用的補助？你會不會有這樣子的聯想？"],["蔡署長孟良：是，如果有這樣的情形，我覺得我們應該要去改正它。"],["陳委員瑩：對啊！我想我們在這裡做一個合理的懷疑跟推論，你們也應該要去查明嘛！"],["蔡署長孟良：好。"],["陳委員瑩：這家彰化縣國際勞工關懷協會是不是你們補助安置費用的單位？"],["蔡署長孟良：這個應該不是我們補助的單位！"],["陳委員瑩：這不是嗎？"],["蔡署長孟良：不是。"],["陳委員瑩：你們再好好確認一下。"],["蔡署長孟良：我們再確認一下。"],["陳委員瑩：如果他們提供不正確的訊息，打著你們勞動部的名義去誤導，有沒有違反規定？這樣可不可以再跟你們申請安置費用的補助？"],["蔡署長孟良：委員，我們會後馬上去瞭解它目前的情形。"],["陳委員瑩：好，今天這兩張小小的廣告傳單，其實很像以前你們遇到利用受訓補助然後欺騙民眾自費去參訓，我們現在對於外籍勞工在臺灣懷孕生小孩、這個黑戶寶寶的問題，其實已經頭很大了，勞動部對於他們的懷孕問題應該要有一個明確的態度，不能睜一隻眼閉一隻眼，你們如果等問題出來然後再用個案去處理，這樣大家會很有壓力，因為我們被一個人權的大旗壓著，所以問題再丟給衛福部跟縣市政府去收尾嘛！這裡面還有很多涉及到雇主的權益，那我們也不能說這樣我們就要求雇主，然後他們無預期的就是要接受外籍勞工懷孕去生小孩。我也是很好奇，就是以前我們都沒有這方面的問題，反而在我國更重視他們的權益，在給了更多、更好的保障之後，問題卻是越來越多，我想我們提供很多的保障是沒有問題，但是方法如果造成後續很嚴重的問題，那我們就要好好的來檢討，總不能什麼都推給雇主跟仲介去配合啊！署長，你怎麼看？"],["蔡署長孟良：對，非常謝謝委員，這個其實一定要衡平雇主跟勞工雙方之間的權益，我想對這個部分後續相關的一些處理跟規劃，我們都會注意這一點。"],["陳委員瑩：好，最後我在這邊要謝謝蔡署長，也對你表達肯定，因為畢竟你在防疫期間臨危受命，也順利解決了這個外籍勞工防疫破口的隱憂，還有一些錯綜複雜的政策，所以背後都要有署長站在第一線去處理這些問題，也有看到你的身影。那我想要做一個提醒，就是外籍勞工懷孕生子的問題在未來只會越來越多，彰化縣這個外國人生育諮詢服務中心不等同它是一個生育鼓勵中心，這是不一樣的，所以我要在這裡要求你們一定要很努力的透過非常強力、強化的管理，不管是外籍勞工或者仲介還是接受補助單位的管理，特別是宣導內容尺寸的拿捏，都要跟你們勞動部的態度是一致的，我希望以後不要再看到這種東西。"],["蔡署長孟良：好，我們來跟彰化縣政府針對它的內容再做一些檢討。"],["陳委員瑩：好，謝謝。"],["蔡署長孟良：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝陳瑩委員。報告委員會，現場林倩綺委員有登記，因為未及發言，要求同意於劉建國委員發言結束後發言。","我們現在請劉建國委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":424,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-13","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","王育敏","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","王正旭","蘇清泉","鄭天財Sra 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{\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 764.51, \"end\": 764.81, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 764.81, \"end\": 765.191, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"懷\"}, {\"word\": \"孕\", \"start\": 765.191, \"end\": 765.431, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 765.431, \"end\": 765.651, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"小\", \"start\": 765.651, \"end\": 765.891, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"孩\", \"start\": 765.891, \"end\": 765.911, \"score\": 0.547}]}, {\"start\": 767.232, \"end\": 786.512, \"text\": \"我也是很好奇就是說以前我們都沒有這方面的問題反而呢在我國更重視他們的權益給了很多的這個更多更好的保障之後呢問題卻是越來越多我想我們去保障並提供這個很多的保障是沒有問題\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 767.232, \"end\": 767.353, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 767.353, \"end\": 767.493, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 767.493, \"end\": 767.613, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 767.613, \"end\": 767.773, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 767.773, \"end\": 768.033, \"score\": 0.988}, 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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:11,701 --> 00:00:14,970\n好,現在主席我們先請那個社福處羅處長,原民會請羅處長\n\n2\n00:00:25,509 --> 00:00:27,670\n因為我們在去年\n\n3\n00:00:51,421 --> 00:01:12,615\n我4月12日就提案那因為主要是我們這個政府從112年重新開放這個營造業外籍勞工的引進我們是非常擔心會嚴重排擠到原住民勞工的就業那這不是只是我的擔心而已其實是我想很多的族人都有面臨到這樣的問題\n\n4\n00:01:13,976 --> 00:01:41,368\n那所以我特別在去年4月12號有提案要求要補助事業單位促進原住民族就業計畫那到底要等到什麼時候才可以送到勞動部來排案我特別關心這個問題因為不是只有我關心在我提出之後有好幾位原住民的立委不分黨派都緊盯著我然後跟著我的後面一直在很用力的在\n\n5\n00:01:42,828 --> 00:02:10,977\n支持這樣的案子所以要請教你這個時程跟委員報告一下那我們在3月的時候有分別派訪就在安定基金委員會裡面的兩位委員希望徵求委員更多的一些指導來去完善我們那個計畫那目前已經完成這個事項那也做好一些相關的一個方案然後我們最近是也透過國會組也希望先到委員那邊先跟委員再去做一個說明\n\n6\n00:02:11,597 --> 00:02:40,176\n所以你就是還沒有排嗎?那我現在問你什麼時候要送到勞動部去排案嗎?對,那如果是這一期的就業案第1屆開會有的我們會以最近的一起的那個部分會先去做一個提案那目前是因為也大概是在交接期間我們也要先跟新的主委要去報告這個事情那長官是非常關心以上所以那個5月520之前是還不會送嗎?是\n\n7\n00:02:41,776 --> 00:03:07,101\n所以你到底什麼時候才要送?我怕你等到下一任上任又說要等下一任的交接。已經是差不多研議完成了。都差不多了是不是?那你可不可以自己給自己一個期許、一個日期?520交接之後。現在那個要接任的主委也在你們會裡面,也是常常可以見面,你們都很熟嘛。是。就可以事先\n\n8\n00:03:08,101 --> 00:03:12,784\n要看勞動部他們最近召開的那個時間的部分。你要看勞動部召開的時間才要送,這樣不是很奇怪,你要先送給他們。\n\n9\n00:03:28,144 --> 00:03:45,459\n對,我們盡快送。對,你要送給他們,他們才召開,不是嗎?是。你怎麼會說等他們什麼時候召開,你們才要送?應該是半年召開一次。對,我是說...對,那只要我...我這麼簡單問你一個問題,我就是問日期而已,你就不能...\n\n10\n00:03:47,406 --> 00:04:06,642\n講個日期嗎?那是不是委員大概差不多在5月、大概在6月的時候我們是希望可以送出去這樣子。所以你到時候還會在社福處是不是?這個應該是先就就要就就乾脆先在交接前你們可以先就先送了嗎?\n\n11\n00:04:07,808 --> 00:04:08,469\n問到現在剩下4分鐘。\n\n12\n00:04:27,642 --> 00:04:45,329\n好吧,你先下去吧。這個事情我覺得交接前就可以先送的。難道一這樣當主委講的話都不算嗎?做的決定也都不算嗎?你們感功一下嘛。好,謝謝。麻煩再請那個蔡署長。\n\n13\n00:04:47,418 --> 00:05:14,187\n還有這個蔡署長、調評司黃司長黃司長好,我要講一下這個這個我覺得蠻嚴重的問題你們先看一下這個廣告單廣告的傳單這裡面的內容是不是正確然後攸關這個外籍勞工的權益這個部分因為你看這個性別平等工作法那個黃司長有沒有第21支一條\n\n14\n00:05:16,505 --> 00:05:36,684\n是20條第一項好只有其實他就是沒有21之一啦我沒有講錯我只是問問題沒有就沒有對你也沒有回答錯好那如果傳單內容指的是就是說你這個傳單的內容應該就是指21條嘛\n\n15\n00:05:38,746 --> 00:05:49,637\n那前提就是外勞先要有參加就業保險那我就要請教外籍勞工他們可不可以參加就業保險\n\n16\n00:05:51,846 --> 00:06:13,332\n外籍勞工不能參加就業保險。好,謝謝。正確。那我想我就直接單刀直入的問了齁。那所以裡面所提到的這個各項權益有包括有薪產檢、賠產檢還有產假、安胎休養跟這個育嬰留職停薪以及這個家庭照顧的部分是不是都適用於外籍勞工?\n\n17\n00:06:16,220 --> 00:06:42,027\n在這些架的部分有適用那那個運營留持停薪的話會沒有薪資沒有津貼好那因為這個部分更何況有涉及到這個準爸爸準爸爸喔準爸爸的權益以及這個家庭所以外籍勞工雙方我要請教說他們雙方可不可以在我國登記結婚可以\n\n18\n00:06:44,864 --> 00:07:08,498\n登記結婚是可以移民法他們可以結婚阿可不可以登記結婚跟委員報我們了解目前移民署是可以在國內他們在登記的結婚是可以的可以登記結婚對我了解是可以依法你確定是跟委員報勞動部有沒有不同的意見\n\n19\n00:07:11,533 --> 00:07:36,417\n你要先弄清楚法規我明明看到這個就業保險法第5條可以你說可以登記結婚對對因為跟文貌因為這個過去確實因為有發生過案例我們有請教過移民所那他目前他們在移民法的規定其實沒有拍過所以現在是可以登記結婚對是可以登記但是他不能可以認定準爸爸\n\n20\n00:07:37,629 --> 00:07:53,682\n對,但是他不能依這個理由作為他改變他的居留身份。我知道我是打問號啦,到底能不能登記結婚,這件事情我覺得我們可能都需要在……我會後我們再進一步按照我們在進一步再把它明確化。\n\n21\n00:07:54,318 --> 00:08:21,844\n你們現在要不要先問一下我一邊質詢你們先問一下我們了解一下是因為我不太清楚是我沒有跟上這個這個他們的修改的腳步還是怎麼樣那再來就是那個黃市長你先請回座那個我是接下來我要請你們看另外一張傳單這是宣稱由彰化縣政府委託救安基金補助的宣導資料那我請問蔡署長你們有沒有補助這樣的內容\n\n22\n00:08:24,313 --> 00:08:50,100\n跟委員報告那個外國人生育諮詢服務中心這個部分目前我們應該這個是應該限服對這個理念是有提到說可以解約後60天申請暫緩轉換雇主那產後60天內可以申請恢復轉換雇主並且延長60天的工作期限我想請教這是真的嗎\n\n23\n00:08:51,440 --> 00:09:14,752\n這是說如果這個懷孕移工他跟僱主因為雙方可能因為工作上沒有辦法這樣調備之下解約後這個是可以我們有這樣的一個協助好那這個沒有問題那根據這個勞動基準法第50條第一項的規定在生小孩前後可以請八個星期的產假那我們這裡先不討論這個流產假的部分\n\n24\n00:09:17,213 --> 00:09:28,577\n我國的勞工產假是56天。所以外籍勞工的產假有60天,比我國的勞工更多嗎?他們60,我們56天。\n\n25\n00:09:34,772 --> 00:10:00,928\n我們這裡的60天他是說如果他因為解約之後那可能他因為在轉彎僱主這個時間我們大概會有60天對嘛這個不管啦我說簡單來講就是產假結論啊產假我國的勞工是56天但外籍的勞工可以有60天嘛這個就是結論啊對不對好這個不管中間怎麼樣你的結論目前就是這個樣子嘛那我們今天指出了這兩張傳單\n\n26\n00:10:03,442 --> 00:10:29,994\n我是覺得因為好像勞動部都在鼓勵外籍勞工在台灣生育而且福利待遇甚至比本國勞工還要更好那這個傳單裡面都有單位名稱還有這個聯絡的方式但也沒有看到勞動部說有任何的這個澄清或說明說明說我國是非常重視外籍勞工的權益而不是鼓勵他們在台灣非法生育\n\n27\n00:10:30,882 --> 00:10:45,959\n好,那所以如果說這些都是真的那這麼重要的這個權益措施你們應該要發布新聞稿並在這個官網上面公佈嘛而不是讓人家這樣子宣傳讓很多人去誤解\n\n28\n00:10:47,460 --> 00:11:15,154\n那所以你後續,署長你後續會不會有正式相關的公佈或澄清說明?好,這個委員謝謝,謝謝委員提醒我們因為我們也發現這個有些訊息可能不是一個正確對啊,大家都覺得太好了我們都來這裡非法生小孩好,如果這個資料是錯誤的那請問有沒有意圖透過協助保障外籍勞動權益而實際上是來獲得你們的安置費用的補助你會不會有這樣子的聯想?\n\n29\n00:11:17,948 --> 00:11:31,696\n對,我想我們在這裡做一個合理的懷疑跟推論,你們也應該要去查明嗎?好,這家彰化縣國際勞工關懷協會是不是你們安置補助的單位?是不是?\n\n30\n00:11:32,736 --> 00:11:51,664\n這個應該不是喔,不是我們的安置單位。不是不是。你們再確認,好好確認一下,如果他們提供不正確的訊息打著你們勞動部的名義去誤導,有沒有違反規定,可不可以,就是這樣可不可以就是說再跟你們申請安置的這個補助。我們會馬上去了解他的目前的一個。\n\n31\n00:11:53,265 --> 00:12:06,952\n今天這兩張小小的廣告傳單其實很像以前你們遇到利用授訊補助然後欺騙民眾自費去參訊那我們現在呢就是對於外籍勞工在台灣這個懷孕生小孩這個黑戶寶寶的問題其實已經頭很大了\n\n32\n00:12:11,458 --> 00:12:29,997\n勞動部對於說他們的懷孕問題應該要有一個明確的態度不能睜一隻眼閉一隻眼那因為問題出來你們如果問題出來然後再用個案去處理然後因為我們這樣大家會很有壓力嘛因為我們有一個人權的這個大旗\n\n33\n00:12:31,699 --> 00:12:45,911\n所以問題在丟給衛福部跟縣市政府去收尾嘛那這裡面還有很多涉及到雇主權益啊那我們也不能說啊就這樣我們就要求雇主然後無預期的就是要接受外籍勞工去懷孕生小孩\n\n34\n00:12:47,232 --> 00:13:06,512\n我也是很好奇就是說以前我們都沒有這方面的問題反而呢在我國更重視他們的權益給了很多的這個更多更好的保障之後呢問題卻是越來越多我想我們去保障並提供這個很多的保障是沒有問題\n\n35\n00:13:08,073 --> 00:13:30,197\n但是方法如果造成後續很嚴重的問題,那我們就要好好的來檢討嗎?總不能什麼都推給僱主跟仲介去配合啊?好,署長你怎麼看?對,我想非常謝謝委員。這個其實一定要橫平僱主的權益跟雙方之間。我想這個部分後續我們在相關的一些處理跟規劃我們都會注意這一點。\n\n36\n00:13:31,208 --> 00:13:56,378\n最後我還是在這邊要說謝謝蔡署長也給你表達肯定因為畢竟就是說在這個防疫期間你臨危受命那也就是順利解決這個外籍勞工這個防疫破口的隱憂還有一些錯綜複雜的一些政策所以背後都要有署長站在第一線去處理這些問題也有看到你的身影\n\n37\n00:13:57,719 --> 00:14:16,952\n我想要做個提醒就是目前外籍勞工懷孕生子的問題那未來只會越來越多那彰化縣這個外國人生育諮詢服務中心不等同說他是一個生育鼓勵中心這是不一樣的所以我要在這裡要求你們一定要\n\n38\n00:14:17,312 --> 00:14:17,332\n好,謝謝。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11701\t14970\t好,現在主席我們先請那個社福處羅處長,原民會請羅處長\n25509\t27670\t因為我們在去年\n51421\t72615\t我4月12日就提案那因為主要是我們這個政府從112年重新開放這個營造業外籍勞工的引進我們是非常擔心會嚴重排擠到原住民勞工的就業那這不是只是我的擔心而已其實是我想很多的族人都有面臨到這樣的問題\n73976\t101368\t那所以我特別在去年4月12號有提案要求要補助事業單位促進原住民族就業計畫那到底要等到什麼時候才可以送到勞動部來排案我特別關心這個問題因為不是只有我關心在我提出之後有好幾位原住民的立委不分黨派都緊盯著我然後跟著我的後面一直在很用力的在\n102828\t130977\t支持這樣的案子所以要請教你這個時程跟委員報告一下那我們在3月的時候有分別派訪就在安定基金委員會裡面的兩位委員希望徵求委員更多的一些指導來去完善我們那個計畫那目前已經完成這個事項那也做好一些相關的一個方案然後我們最近是也透過國會組也希望先到委員那邊先跟委員再去做一個說明\n131597\t160176\t所以你就是還沒有排嗎?那我現在問你什麼時候要送到勞動部去排案嗎?對,那如果是這一期的就業案第1屆開會有的我們會以最近的一起的那個部分會先去做一個提案那目前是因為也大概是在交接期間我們也要先跟新的主委要去報告這個事情那長官是非常關心以上所以那個5月520之前是還不會送嗎?是\n161776\t187101\t所以你到底什麼時候才要送?我怕你等到下一任上任又說要等下一任的交接。已經是差不多研議完成了。都差不多了是不是?那你可不可以自己給自己一個期許、一個日期?520交接之後。現在那個要接任的主委也在你們會裡面,也是常常可以見面,你們都很熟嘛。是。就可以事先\n188101\t192784\t要看勞動部他們最近召開的那個時間的部分。你要看勞動部召開的時間才要送,這樣不是很奇怪,你要先送給他們。\n208144\t225459\t對,我們盡快送。對,你要送給他們,他們才召開,不是嗎?是。你怎麼會說等他們什麼時候召開,你們才要送?應該是半年召開一次。對,我是說...對,那只要我...我這麼簡單問你一個問題,我就是問日期而已,你就不能...\n227406\t246642\t講個日期嗎?那是不是委員大概差不多在5月、大概在6月的時候我們是希望可以送出去這樣子。所以你到時候還會在社福處是不是?這個應該是先就就要就就乾脆先在交接前你們可以先就先送了嗎?\n247808\t248469\t問到現在剩下4分鐘。\n267642\t285329\t好吧,你先下去吧。這個事情我覺得交接前就可以先送的。難道一這樣當主委講的話都不算嗎?做的決定也都不算嗎?你們感功一下嘛。好,謝謝。麻煩再請那個蔡署長。\n287418\t314187\t還有這個蔡署長、調評司黃司長黃司長好,我要講一下這個這個我覺得蠻嚴重的問題你們先看一下這個廣告單廣告的傳單這裡面的內容是不是正確然後攸關這個外籍勞工的權益這個部分因為你看這個性別平等工作法那個黃司長有沒有第21支一條\n316505\t336684\t是20條第一項好只有其實他就是沒有21之一啦我沒有講錯我只是問問題沒有就沒有對你也沒有回答錯好那如果傳單內容指的是就是說你這個傳單的內容應該就是指21條嘛\n338746\t349637\t那前提就是外勞先要有參加就業保險那我就要請教外籍勞工他們可不可以參加就業保險\n351846\t373332\t外籍勞工不能參加就業保險。好,謝謝。正確。那我想我就直接單刀直入的問了齁。那所以裡面所提到的這個各項權益有包括有薪產檢、賠產檢還有產假、安胎休養跟這個育嬰留職停薪以及這個家庭照顧的部分是不是都適用於外籍勞工?\n376220\t402027\t在這些架的部分有適用那那個運營留持停薪的話會沒有薪資沒有津貼好那因為這個部分更何況有涉及到這個準爸爸準爸爸喔準爸爸的權益以及這個家庭所以外籍勞工雙方我要請教說他們雙方可不可以在我國登記結婚可以\n404864\t428498\t登記結婚是可以移民法他們可以結婚阿可不可以登記結婚跟委員報我們了解目前移民署是可以在國內他們在登記的結婚是可以的可以登記結婚對我了解是可以依法你確定是跟委員報勞動部有沒有不同的意見\n431533\t456417\t你要先弄清楚法規我明明看到這個就業保險法第5條可以你說可以登記結婚對對因為跟文貌因為這個過去確實因為有發生過案例我們有請教過移民所那他目前他們在移民法的規定其實沒有拍過所以現在是可以登記結婚對是可以登記但是他不能可以認定準爸爸\n457629\t473682\t對,但是他不能依這個理由作為他改變他的居留身份。我知道我是打問號啦,到底能不能登記結婚,這件事情我覺得我們可能都需要在……我會後我們再進一步按照我們在進一步再把它明確化。\n474318\t501844\t你們現在要不要先問一下我一邊質詢你們先問一下我們了解一下是因為我不太清楚是我沒有跟上這個這個他們的修改的腳步還是怎麼樣那再來就是那個黃市長你先請回座那個我是接下來我要請你們看另外一張傳單這是宣稱由彰化縣政府委託救安基金補助的宣導資料那我請問蔡署長你們有沒有補助這樣的內容\n504313\t530100\t跟委員報告那個外國人生育諮詢服務中心這個部分目前我們應該這個是應該限服對這個理念是有提到說可以解約後60天申請暫緩轉換雇主那產後60天內可以申請恢復轉換雇主並且延長60天的工作期限我想請教這是真的嗎\n531440\t554752\t這是說如果這個懷孕移工他跟僱主因為雙方可能因為工作上沒有辦法這樣調備之下解約後這個是可以我們有這樣的一個協助好那這個沒有問題那根據這個勞動基準法第50條第一項的規定在生小孩前後可以請八個星期的產假那我們這裡先不討論這個流產假的部分\n557213\t568577\t我國的勞工產假是56天。所以外籍勞工的產假有60天,比我國的勞工更多嗎?他們60,我們56天。\n574772\t600928\t我們這裡的60天他是說如果他因為解約之後那可能他因為在轉彎僱主這個時間我們大概會有60天對嘛 這個不管啦 我說簡單來講就是產假結論啊產假我國的勞工是56天但外籍的勞工可以有60天嘛這個就是結論啊 對不對好 這個不管中間怎麼樣你的結論目前就是這個樣子嘛那我們今天指出了這兩張傳單\n603442\t629994\t我是覺得因為好像勞動部都在鼓勵外籍勞工在台灣生育而且福利待遇甚至比本國勞工還要更好那這個傳單裡面都有單位名稱還有這個聯絡的方式但也沒有看到勞動部說有任何的這個澄清或說明說明說我國是非常重視外籍勞工的權益而不是鼓勵他們在台灣非法生育\n630882\t645959\t好,那所以如果說這些都是真的那這麼重要的這個權益措施你們應該要發布新聞稿並在這個官網上面公佈嘛而不是讓人家這樣子宣傳讓很多人去誤解\n647460\t675154\t那所以你後續,署長你後續會不會有正式相關的公佈或澄清說明?好,這個委員謝謝,謝謝委員提醒我們因為我們也發現這個有些訊息可能不是一個正確對啊,大家都覺得太好了我們都來這裡非法生小孩好,如果這個資料是錯誤的那請問有沒有意圖透過協助保障外籍勞動權益而實際上是來獲得你們的安置費用的補助你會不會有這樣子的聯想?\n677948\t691696\t對,我想我們在這裡做一個合理的懷疑跟推論,你們也應該要去查明嗎?好,這家彰化縣國際勞工關懷協會是不是你們安置補助的單位?是不是?\n692736\t711664\t這個應該不是喔,不是我們的安置單位。不是不是。你們再確認,好好確認一下,如果他們提供不正確的訊息打著你們勞動部的名義去誤導,有沒有違反規定,可不可以,就是這樣可不可以就是說再跟你們申請安置的這個補助。我們會馬上去了解他的目前的一個。\n713265\t726952\t今天這兩張小小的廣告傳單其實很像以前你們遇到利用授訊補助然後欺騙民眾自費去參訊那我們現在呢就是對於外籍勞工在台灣這個懷孕生小孩這個黑戶寶寶的問題其實已經頭很大了\n731458\t749997\t勞動部對於說他們的懷孕問題應該要有一個明確的態度不能睜一隻眼閉一隻眼那因為問題出來你們如果問題出來然後再用個案去處理然後因為我們這樣大家會很有壓力嘛因為我們有一個人權的這個大旗\n751699\t765911\t所以問題在丟給衛福部跟縣市政府去收尾嘛那這裡面還有很多涉及到雇主權益啊那我們也不能說啊就這樣我們就要求雇主然後無預期的就是要接受外籍勞工去懷孕生小孩\n767232\t786512\t我也是很好奇就是說以前我們都沒有這方面的問題反而呢在我國更重視他們的權益給了很多的這個更多更好的保障之後呢問題卻是越來越多我想我們去保障並提供這個很多的保障是沒有問題\n788073\t810197\t但是方法如果造成後續很嚴重的問題,那我們就要好好的來檢討嗎?總不能什麼都推給僱主跟仲介去配合啊?好,署長你怎麼看?對,我想非常謝謝委員。這個其實一定要橫平僱主的權益跟雙方之間。我想這個部分後續我們在相關的一些處理跟規劃我們都會注意這一點。\n811208\t836378\t最後我還是在這邊要說謝謝蔡署長也給你表達肯定因為畢竟就是說在這個防疫期間你臨危受命那也就是順利解決這個外籍勞工這個防疫破口的隱憂還有一些錯綜複雜的一些政策所以背後都要有署長站在第一線去處理這些問題也有看到你的身影\n837719\t856952\t我想要做個提醒就是目前外籍勞工懷孕生子的問題那未來只會越來越多那彰化縣這個外國人生育諮詢服務中心不等同說他是一個生育鼓勵中心這是不一樣的所以我要在這裡要求你們一定要\n857312\t857332\t好,謝謝。\n","txt":"好,現在主席我們先請那個社福處羅處長,原民會請羅處長\n因為我們在去年\n我4月12日就提案那因為主要是我們這個政府從112年重新開放這個營造業外籍勞工的引進我們是非常擔心會嚴重排擠到原住民勞工的就業那這不是只是我的擔心而已其實是我想很多的族人都有面臨到這樣的問題\n那所以我特別在去年4月12號有提案要求要補助事業單位促進原住民族就業計畫那到底要等到什麼時候才可以送到勞動部來排案我特別關心這個問題因為不是只有我關心在我提出之後有好幾位原住民的立委不分黨派都緊盯著我然後跟著我的後面一直在很用力的在\n支持這樣的案子所以要請教你這個時程跟委員報告一下那我們在3月的時候有分別派訪就在安定基金委員會裡面的兩位委員希望徵求委員更多的一些指導來去完善我們那個計畫那目前已經完成這個事項那也做好一些相關的一個方案然後我們最近是也透過國會組也希望先到委員那邊先跟委員再去做一個說明\n所以你就是還沒有排嗎?那我現在問你什麼時候要送到勞動部去排案嗎?對,那如果是這一期的就業案第1屆開會有的我們會以最近的一起的那個部分會先去做一個提案那目前是因為也大概是在交接期間我們也要先跟新的主委要去報告這個事情那長官是非常關心以上所以那個5月520之前是還不會送嗎?是\n所以你到底什麼時候才要送?我怕你等到下一任上任又說要等下一任的交接。已經是差不多研議完成了。都差不多了是不是?那你可不可以自己給自己一個期許、一個日期?520交接之後。現在那個要接任的主委也在你們會裡面,也是常常可以見面,你們都很熟嘛。是。就可以事先\n要看勞動部他們最近召開的那個時間的部分。你要看勞動部召開的時間才要送,這樣不是很奇怪,你要先送給他們。\n對,我們盡快送。對,你要送給他們,他們才召開,不是嗎?是。你怎麼會說等他們什麼時候召開,你們才要送?應該是半年召開一次。對,我是說...對,那只要我...我這麼簡單問你一個問題,我就是問日期而已,你就不能...\n講個日期嗎?那是不是委員大概差不多在5月、大概在6月的時候我們是希望可以送出去這樣子。所以你到時候還會在社福處是不是?這個應該是先就就要就就乾脆先在交接前你們可以先就先送了嗎?\n問到現在剩下4分鐘。\n好吧,你先下去吧。這個事情我覺得交接前就可以先送的。難道一這樣當主委講的話都不算嗎?做的決定也都不算嗎?你們感功一下嘛。好,謝謝。麻煩再請那個蔡署長。\n還有這個蔡署長、調評司黃司長黃司長好,我要講一下這個這個我覺得蠻嚴重的問題你們先看一下這個廣告單廣告的傳單這裡面的內容是不是正確然後攸關這個外籍勞工的權益這個部分因為你看這個性別平等工作法那個黃司長有沒有第21支一條\n是20條第一項好只有其實他就是沒有21之一啦我沒有講錯我只是問問題沒有就沒有對你也沒有回答錯好那如果傳單內容指的是就是說你這個傳單的內容應該就是指21條嘛\n那前提就是外勞先要有參加就業保險那我就要請教外籍勞工他們可不可以參加就業保險\n外籍勞工不能參加就業保險。好,謝謝。正確。那我想我就直接單刀直入的問了齁。那所以裡面所提到的這個各項權益有包括有薪產檢、賠產檢還有產假、安胎休養跟這個育嬰留職停薪以及這個家庭照顧的部分是不是都適用於外籍勞工?\n在這些架的部分有適用那那個運營留持停薪的話會沒有薪資沒有津貼好那因為這個部分更何況有涉及到這個準爸爸準爸爸喔準爸爸的權益以及這個家庭所以外籍勞工雙方我要請教說他們雙方可不可以在我國登記結婚可以\n登記結婚是可以移民法他們可以結婚阿可不可以登記結婚跟委員報我們了解目前移民署是可以在國內他們在登記的結婚是可以的可以登記結婚對我了解是可以依法你確定是跟委員報勞動部有沒有不同的意見\n你要先弄清楚法規我明明看到這個就業保險法第5條可以你說可以登記結婚對對因為跟文貌因為這個過去確實因為有發生過案例我們有請教過移民所那他目前他們在移民法的規定其實沒有拍過所以現在是可以登記結婚對是可以登記但是他不能可以認定準爸爸\n對,但是他不能依這個理由作為他改變他的居留身份。我知道我是打問號啦,到底能不能登記結婚,這件事情我覺得我們可能都需要在……我會後我們再進一步按照我們在進一步再把它明確化。\n你們現在要不要先問一下我一邊質詢你們先問一下我們了解一下是因為我不太清楚是我沒有跟上這個這個他們的修改的腳步還是怎麼樣那再來就是那個黃市長你先請回座那個我是接下來我要請你們看另外一張傳單這是宣稱由彰化縣政府委託救安基金補助的宣導資料那我請問蔡署長你們有沒有補助這樣的內容\n跟委員報告那個外國人生育諮詢服務中心這個部分目前我們應該這個是應該限服對這個理念是有提到說可以解約後60天申請暫緩轉換雇主那產後60天內可以申請恢復轉換雇主並且延長60天的工作期限我想請教這是真的嗎\n這是說如果這個懷孕移工他跟僱主因為雙方可能因為工作上沒有辦法這樣調備之下解約後這個是可以我們有這樣的一個協助好那這個沒有問題那根據這個勞動基準法第50條第一項的規定在生小孩前後可以請八個星期的產假那我們這裡先不討論這個流產假的部分\n我國的勞工產假是56天。所以外籍勞工的產假有60天,比我國的勞工更多嗎?他們60,我們56天。\n我們這裡的60天他是說如果他因為解約之後那可能他因為在轉彎僱主這個時間我們大概會有60天對嘛 這個不管啦 我說簡單來講就是產假結論啊產假我國的勞工是56天但外籍的勞工可以有60天嘛這個就是結論啊 對不對好 這個不管中間怎麼樣你的結論目前就是這個樣子嘛那我們今天指出了這兩張傳單\n我是覺得因為好像勞動部都在鼓勵外籍勞工在台灣生育而且福利待遇甚至比本國勞工還要更好那這個傳單裡面都有單位名稱還有這個聯絡的方式但也沒有看到勞動部說有任何的這個澄清或說明說明說我國是非常重視外籍勞工的權益而不是鼓勵他們在台灣非法生育\n好,那所以如果說這些都是真的那這麼重要的這個權益措施你們應該要發布新聞稿並在這個官網上面公佈嘛而不是讓人家這樣子宣傳讓很多人去誤解\n那所以你後續,署長你後續會不會有正式相關的公佈或澄清說明?好,這個委員謝謝,謝謝委員提醒我們因為我們也發現這個有些訊息可能不是一個正確對啊,大家都覺得太好了我們都來這裡非法生小孩好,如果這個資料是錯誤的那請問有沒有意圖透過協助保障外籍勞動權益而實際上是來獲得你們的安置費用的補助你會不會有這樣子的聯想?\n對,我想我們在這裡做一個合理的懷疑跟推論,你們也應該要去查明嗎?好,這家彰化縣國際勞工關懷協會是不是你們安置補助的單位?是不是?\n這個應該不是喔,不是我們的安置單位。不是不是。你們再確認,好好確認一下,如果他們提供不正確的訊息打著你們勞動部的名義去誤導,有沒有違反規定,可不可以,就是這樣可不可以就是說再跟你們申請安置的這個補助。我們會馬上去了解他的目前的一個。\n今天這兩張小小的廣告傳單其實很像以前你們遇到利用授訊補助然後欺騙民眾自費去參訊那我們現在呢就是對於外籍勞工在台灣這個懷孕生小孩這個黑戶寶寶的問題其實已經頭很大了\n勞動部對於說他們的懷孕問題應該要有一個明確的態度不能睜一隻眼閉一隻眼那因為問題出來你們如果問題出來然後再用個案去處理然後因為我們這樣大家會很有壓力嘛因為我們有一個人權的這個大旗\n所以問題在丟給衛福部跟縣市政府去收尾嘛那這裡面還有很多涉及到雇主權益啊那我們也不能說啊就這樣我們就要求雇主然後無預期的就是要接受外籍勞工去懷孕生小孩\n我也是很好奇就是說以前我們都沒有這方面的問題反而呢在我國更重視他們的權益給了很多的這個更多更好的保障之後呢問題卻是越來越多我想我們去保障並提供這個很多的保障是沒有問題\n但是方法如果造成後續很嚴重的問題,那我們就要好好的來檢討嗎?總不能什麼都推給僱主跟仲介去配合啊?好,署長你怎麼看?對,我想非常謝謝委員。這個其實一定要橫平僱主的權益跟雙方之間。我想這個部分後續我們在相關的一些處理跟規劃我們都會注意這一點。\n最後我還是在這邊要說謝謝蔡署長也給你表達肯定因為畢竟就是說在這個防疫期間你臨危受命那也就是順利解決這個外籍勞工這個防疫破口的隱憂還有一些錯綜複雜的一些政策所以背後都要有署長站在第一線去處理這些問題也有看到你的身影\n我想要做個提醒就是目前外籍勞工懷孕生子的問題那未來只會越來越多那彰化縣這個外國人生育諮詢服務中心不等同說他是一個生育鼓勵中心這是不一樣的所以我要在這裡要求你們一定要\n好,謝謝。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.701 --> 00:14.970\n好,現在主席我們先請那個社福處羅處長,原民會請羅處長\n\n00:25.509 --> 00:27.670\n因為我們在去年\n\n00:51.421 --> 01:12.615\n我4月12日就提案那因為主要是我們這個政府從112年重新開放這個營造業外籍勞工的引進我們是非常擔心會嚴重排擠到原住民勞工的就業那這不是只是我的擔心而已其實是我想很多的族人都有面臨到這樣的問題\n\n01:13.976 --> 01:41.368\n那所以我特別在去年4月12號有提案要求要補助事業單位促進原住民族就業計畫那到底要等到什麼時候才可以送到勞動部來排案我特別關心這個問題因為不是只有我關心在我提出之後有好幾位原住民的立委不分黨派都緊盯著我然後跟著我的後面一直在很用力的在\n\n01:42.828 --> 02:10.977\n支持這樣的案子所以要請教你這個時程跟委員報告一下那我們在3月的時候有分別派訪就在安定基金委員會裡面的兩位委員希望徵求委員更多的一些指導來去完善我們那個計畫那目前已經完成這個事項那也做好一些相關的一個方案然後我們最近是也透過國會組也希望先到委員那邊先跟委員再去做一個說明\n\n02:11.597 --> 02:40.176\n所以你就是還沒有排嗎?那我現在問你什麼時候要送到勞動部去排案嗎?對,那如果是這一期的就業案第1屆開會有的我們會以最近的一起的那個部分會先去做一個提案那目前是因為也大概是在交接期間我們也要先跟新的主委要去報告這個事情那長官是非常關心以上所以那個5月520之前是還不會送嗎?是\n\n02:41.776 --> 03:07.101\n所以你到底什麼時候才要送?我怕你等到下一任上任又說要等下一任的交接。已經是差不多研議完成了。都差不多了是不是?那你可不可以自己給自己一個期許、一個日期?520交接之後。現在那個要接任的主委也在你們會裡面,也是常常可以見面,你們都很熟嘛。是。就可以事先\n\n03:08.101 --> 03:12.784\n要看勞動部他們最近召開的那個時間的部分。你要看勞動部召開的時間才要送,這樣不是很奇怪,你要先送給他們。\n\n03:28.144 --> 03:45.459\n對,我們盡快送。對,你要送給他們,他們才召開,不是嗎?是。你怎麼會說等他們什麼時候召開,你們才要送?應該是半年召開一次。對,我是說...對,那只要我...我這麼簡單問你一個問題,我就是問日期而已,你就不能...\n\n03:47.406 --> 04:06.642\n講個日期嗎?那是不是委員大概差不多在5月、大概在6月的時候我們是希望可以送出去這樣子。所以你到時候還會在社福處是不是?這個應該是先就就要就就乾脆先在交接前你們可以先就先送了嗎?\n\n04:07.808 --> 04:08.469\n問到現在剩下4分鐘。\n\n04:27.642 --> 04:45.329\n好吧,你先下去吧。這個事情我覺得交接前就可以先送的。難道一這樣當主委講的話都不算嗎?做的決定也都不算嗎?你們感功一下嘛。好,謝謝。麻煩再請那個蔡署長。\n\n04:47.418 --> 05:14.187\n還有這個蔡署長、調評司黃司長黃司長好,我要講一下這個這個我覺得蠻嚴重的問題你們先看一下這個廣告單廣告的傳單這裡面的內容是不是正確然後攸關這個外籍勞工的權益這個部分因為你看這個性別平等工作法那個黃司長有沒有第21支一條\n\n05:16.505 --> 05:36.684\n是20條第一項好只有其實他就是沒有21之一啦我沒有講錯我只是問問題沒有就沒有對你也沒有回答錯好那如果傳單內容指的是就是說你這個傳單的內容應該就是指21條嘛\n\n05:38.746 --> 05:49.637\n那前提就是外勞先要有參加就業保險那我就要請教外籍勞工他們可不可以參加就業保險\n\n05:51.846 --> 06:13.332\n外籍勞工不能參加就業保險。好,謝謝。正確。那我想我就直接單刀直入的問了齁。那所以裡面所提到的這個各項權益有包括有薪產檢、賠產檢還有產假、安胎休養跟這個育嬰留職停薪以及這個家庭照顧的部分是不是都適用於外籍勞工?\n\n06:16.220 --> 06:42.027\n在這些架的部分有適用那那個運營留持停薪的話會沒有薪資沒有津貼好那因為這個部分更何況有涉及到這個準爸爸準爸爸喔準爸爸的權益以及這個家庭所以外籍勞工雙方我要請教說他們雙方可不可以在我國登記結婚可以\n\n06:44.864 --> 07:08.498\n登記結婚是可以移民法他們可以結婚阿可不可以登記結婚跟委員報我們了解目前移民署是可以在國內他們在登記的結婚是可以的可以登記結婚對我了解是可以依法你確定是跟委員報勞動部有沒有不同的意見\n\n07:11.533 --> 07:36.417\n你要先弄清楚法規我明明看到這個就業保險法第5條可以你說可以登記結婚對對因為跟文貌因為這個過去確實因為有發生過案例我們有請教過移民所那他目前他們在移民法的規定其實沒有拍過所以現在是可以登記結婚對是可以登記但是他不能可以認定準爸爸\n\n07:37.629 --> 07:53.682\n對,但是他不能依這個理由作為他改變他的居留身份。我知道我是打問號啦,到底能不能登記結婚,這件事情我覺得我們可能都需要在……我會後我們再進一步按照我們在進一步再把它明確化。\n\n07:54.318 --> 08:21.844\n你們現在要不要先問一下我一邊質詢你們先問一下我們了解一下是因為我不太清楚是我沒有跟上這個這個他們的修改的腳步還是怎麼樣那再來就是那個黃市長你先請回座那個我是接下來我要請你們看另外一張傳單這是宣稱由彰化縣政府委託救安基金補助的宣導資料那我請問蔡署長你們有沒有補助這樣的內容\n\n08:24.313 --> 08:50.100\n跟委員報告那個外國人生育諮詢服務中心這個部分目前我們應該這個是應該限服對這個理念是有提到說可以解約後60天申請暫緩轉換雇主那產後60天內可以申請恢復轉換雇主並且延長60天的工作期限我想請教這是真的嗎\n\n08:51.440 --> 09:14.752\n這是說如果這個懷孕移工他跟僱主因為雙方可能因為工作上沒有辦法這樣調備之下解約後這個是可以我們有這樣的一個協助好那這個沒有問題那根據這個勞動基準法第50條第一項的規定在生小孩前後可以請八個星期的產假那我們這裡先不討論這個流產假的部分\n\n09:17.213 --> 09:28.577\n我國的勞工產假是56天。所以外籍勞工的產假有60天,比我國的勞工更多嗎?他們60,我們56天。\n\n09:34.772 --> 10:00.928\n我們這裡的60天他是說如果他因為解約之後那可能他因為在轉彎僱主這個時間我們大概會有60天對嘛這個不管啦我說簡單來講就是產假結論啊產假我國的勞工是56天但外籍的勞工可以有60天嘛這個就是結論啊對不對好這個不管中間怎麼樣你的結論目前就是這個樣子嘛那我們今天指出了這兩張傳單\n\n10:03.442 --> 10:29.994\n我是覺得因為好像勞動部都在鼓勵外籍勞工在台灣生育而且福利待遇甚至比本國勞工還要更好那這個傳單裡面都有單位名稱還有這個聯絡的方式但也沒有看到勞動部說有任何的這個澄清或說明說明說我國是非常重視外籍勞工的權益而不是鼓勵他們在台灣非法生育\n\n10:30.882 --> 10:45.959\n好,那所以如果說這些都是真的那這麼重要的這個權益措施你們應該要發布新聞稿並在這個官網上面公佈嘛而不是讓人家這樣子宣傳讓很多人去誤解\n\n10:47.460 --> 11:15.154\n那所以你後續,署長你後續會不會有正式相關的公佈或澄清說明?好,這個委員謝謝,謝謝委員提醒我們因為我們也發現這個有些訊息可能不是一個正確對啊,大家都覺得太好了我們都來這裡非法生小孩好,如果這個資料是錯誤的那請問有沒有意圖透過協助保障外籍勞動權益而實際上是來獲得你們的安置費用的補助你會不會有這樣子的聯想?\n\n11:17.948 --> 11:31.696\n對,我想我們在這裡做一個合理的懷疑跟推論,你們也應該要去查明嗎?好,這家彰化縣國際勞工關懷協會是不是你們安置補助的單位?是不是?\n\n11:32.736 --> 11:51.664\n這個應該不是喔,不是我們的安置單位。不是不是。你們再確認,好好確認一下,如果他們提供不正確的訊息打著你們勞動部的名義去誤導,有沒有違反規定,可不可以,就是這樣可不可以就是說再跟你們申請安置的這個補助。我們會馬上去了解他的目前的一個。\n\n11:53.265 --> 12:06.952\n今天這兩張小小的廣告傳單其實很像以前你們遇到利用授訊補助然後欺騙民眾自費去參訊那我們現在呢就是對於外籍勞工在台灣這個懷孕生小孩這個黑戶寶寶的問題其實已經頭很大了\n\n12:11.458 --> 12:29.997\n勞動部對於說他們的懷孕問題應該要有一個明確的態度不能睜一隻眼閉一隻眼那因為問題出來你們如果問題出來然後再用個案去處理然後因為我們這樣大家會很有壓力嘛因為我們有一個人權的這個大旗\n\n12:31.699 --> 12:45.911\n所以問題在丟給衛福部跟縣市政府去收尾嘛那這裡面還有很多涉及到雇主權益啊那我們也不能說啊就這樣我們就要求雇主然後無預期的就是要接受外籍勞工去懷孕生小孩\n\n12:47.232 --> 13:06.512\n我也是很好奇就是說以前我們都沒有這方面的問題反而呢在我國更重視他們的權益給了很多的這個更多更好的保障之後呢問題卻是越來越多我想我們去保障並提供這個很多的保障是沒有問題\n\n13:08.073 --> 13:30.197\n但是方法如果造成後續很嚴重的問題,那我們就要好好的來檢討嗎?總不能什麼都推給僱主跟仲介去配合啊?好,署長你怎麼看?對,我想非常謝謝委員。這個其實一定要橫平僱主的權益跟雙方之間。我想這個部分後續我們在相關的一些處理跟規劃我們都會注意這一點。\n\n13:31.208 --> 13:56.378\n最後我還是在這邊要說謝謝蔡署長也給你表達肯定因為畢竟就是說在這個防疫期間你臨危受命那也就是順利解決這個外籍勞工這個防疫破口的隱憂還有一些錯綜複雜的一些政策所以背後都要有署長站在第一線去處理這些問題也有看到你的身影\n\n13:57.719 --> 14:16.952\n我想要做個提醒就是目前外籍勞工懷孕生子的問題那未來只會越來越多那彰化縣這個外國人生育諮詢服務中心不等同說他是一個生育鼓勵中心這是不一樣的所以我要在這裡要求你們一定要\n\n14:17.312 --> 14:17.332\n好,謝謝。\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.701,"end":14.97,"text":"好,現在主席我們先請那個社福處羅處長,原民會請羅處長"},{"start":25.509,"end":27.67,"text":"因為我們在去年"},{"start":51.421,"end":72.615,"text":"我4月12日就提案那因為主要是我們這個政府從112年重新開放這個營造業外籍勞工的引進我們是非常擔心會嚴重排擠到原住民勞工的就業那這不是只是我的擔心而已其實是我想很多的族人都有面臨到這樣的問題"},{"start":73.976,"end":101.368,"text":"那所以我特別在去年4月12號有提案要求要補助事業單位促進原住民族就業計畫那到底要等到什麼時候才可以送到勞動部來排案我特別關心這個問題因為不是只有我關心在我提出之後有好幾位原住民的立委不分黨派都緊盯著我然後跟著我的後面一直在很用力的在"},{"start":102.828,"end":130.977,"text":"支持這樣的案子所以要請教你這個時程跟委員報告一下那我們在3月的時候有分別派訪就在安定基金委員會裡面的兩位委員希望徵求委員更多的一些指導來去完善我們那個計畫那目前已經完成這個事項那也做好一些相關的一個方案然後我們最近是也透過國會組也希望先到委員那邊先跟委員再去做一個說明"},{"start":131.597,"end":160.176,"text":"所以你就是還沒有排嗎?那我現在問你什麼時候要送到勞動部去排案嗎?對,那如果是這一期的就業案第1屆開會有的我們會以最近的一起的那個部分會先去做一個提案那目前是因為也大概是在交接期間我們也要先跟新的主委要去報告這個事情那長官是非常關心以上所以那個5月520之前是還不會送嗎?是"},{"start":161.776,"end":187.101,"text":"所以你到底什麼時候才要送?我怕你等到下一任上任又說要等下一任的交接。已經是差不多研議完成了。都差不多了是不是?那你可不可以自己給自己一個期許、一個日期?520交接之後。現在那個要接任的主委也在你們會裡面,也是常常可以見面,你們都很熟嘛。是。就可以事先"},{"start":188.101,"end":192.784,"text":"要看勞動部他們最近召開的那個時間的部分。你要看勞動部召開的時間才要送,這樣不是很奇怪,你要先送給他們。"},{"start":208.144,"end":225.459,"text":"對,我們盡快送。對,你要送給他們,他們才召開,不是嗎?是。你怎麼會說等他們什麼時候召開,你們才要送?應該是半年召開一次。對,我是說...對,那只要我...我這麼簡單問你一個問題,我就是問日期而已,你就不能..."},{"start":227.406,"end":246.642,"text":"講個日期嗎?那是不是委員大概差不多在5月、大概在6月的時候我們是希望可以送出去這樣子。所以你到時候還會在社福處是不是?這個應該是先就就要就就乾脆先在交接前你們可以先就先送了嗎?"},{"start":247.808,"end":248.469,"text":"問到現在剩下4分鐘。"},{"start":267.642,"end":285.329,"text":"好吧,你先下去吧。這個事情我覺得交接前就可以先送的。難道一這樣當主委講的話都不算嗎?做的決定也都不算嗎?你們感功一下嘛。好,謝謝。麻煩再請那個蔡署長。"},{"start":287.418,"end":314.187,"text":"還有這個蔡署長、調評司黃司長黃司長好,我要講一下這個這個我覺得蠻嚴重的問題你們先看一下這個廣告單廣告的傳單這裡面的內容是不是正確然後攸關這個外籍勞工的權益這個部分因為你看這個性別平等工作法那個黃司長有沒有第21支一條"},{"start":316.505,"end":336.684,"text":"是20條第一項好只有其實他就是沒有21之一啦我沒有講錯我只是問問題沒有就沒有對你也沒有回答錯好那如果傳單內容指的是就是說你這個傳單的內容應該就是指21條嘛"},{"start":338.746,"end":349.637,"text":"那前提就是外勞先要有參加就業保險那我就要請教外籍勞工他們可不可以參加就業保險"},{"start":351.846,"end":373.332,"text":"外籍勞工不能參加就業保險。好,謝謝。正確。那我想我就直接單刀直入的問了齁。那所以裡面所提到的這個各項權益有包括有薪產檢、賠產檢還有產假、安胎休養跟這個育嬰留職停薪以及這個家庭照顧的部分是不是都適用於外籍勞工?"},{"start":376.22,"end":402.027,"text":"在這些架的部分有適用那那個運營留持停薪的話會沒有薪資沒有津貼好那因為這個部分更何況有涉及到這個準爸爸準爸爸喔準爸爸的權益以及這個家庭所以外籍勞工雙方我要請教說他們雙方可不可以在我國登記結婚可以"},{"start":404.864,"end":428.498,"text":"登記結婚是可以移民法他們可以結婚阿可不可以登記結婚跟委員報我們了解目前移民署是可以在國內他們在登記的結婚是可以的可以登記結婚對我了解是可以依法你確定是跟委員報勞動部有沒有不同的意見"},{"start":431.533,"end":456.417,"text":"你要先弄清楚法規我明明看到這個就業保險法第5條可以你說可以登記結婚對對因為跟文貌因為這個過去確實因為有發生過案例我們有請教過移民所那他目前他們在移民法的規定其實沒有拍過所以現在是可以登記結婚對是可以登記但是他不能可以認定準爸爸"},{"start":457.629,"end":473.682,"text":"對,但是他不能依這個理由作為他改變他的居留身份。我知道我是打問號啦,到底能不能登記結婚,這件事情我覺得我們可能都需要在……我會後我們再進一步按照我們在進一步再把它明確化。"},{"start":474.318,"end":501.844,"text":"你們現在要不要先問一下我一邊質詢你們先問一下我們了解一下是因為我不太清楚是我沒有跟上這個這個他們的修改的腳步還是怎麼樣那再來就是那個黃市長你先請回座那個我是接下來我要請你們看另外一張傳單這是宣稱由彰化縣政府委託救安基金補助的宣導資料那我請問蔡署長你們有沒有補助這樣的內容"},{"start":504.313,"end":530.1,"text":"跟委員報告那個外國人生育諮詢服務中心這個部分目前我們應該這個是應該限服對這個理念是有提到說可以解約後60天申請暫緩轉換雇主那產後60天內可以申請恢復轉換雇主並且延長60天的工作期限我想請教這是真的嗎"},{"start":531.44,"end":554.752,"text":"這是說如果這個懷孕移工他跟僱主因為雙方可能因為工作上沒有辦法這樣調備之下解約後這個是可以我們有這樣的一個協助好那這個沒有問題那根據這個勞動基準法第50條第一項的規定在生小孩前後可以請八個星期的產假那我們這裡先不討論這個流產假的部分"},{"start":557.213,"end":568.577,"text":"我國的勞工產假是56天。所以外籍勞工的產假有60天,比我國的勞工更多嗎?他們60,我們56天。"},{"start":574.772,"end":600.928,"text":"我們這裡的60天他是說如果他因為解約之後那可能他因為在轉彎僱主這個時間我們大概會有60天對嘛 這個不管啦 我說簡單來講就是產假結論啊產假我國的勞工是56天但外籍的勞工可以有60天嘛這個就是結論啊 對不對好 這個不管中間怎麼樣你的結論目前就是這個樣子嘛那我們今天指出了這兩張傳單"},{"start":603.442,"end":629.994,"text":"我是覺得因為好像勞動部都在鼓勵外籍勞工在台灣生育而且福利待遇甚至比本國勞工還要更好那這個傳單裡面都有單位名稱還有這個聯絡的方式但也沒有看到勞動部說有任何的這個澄清或說明說明說我國是非常重視外籍勞工的權益而不是鼓勵他們在台灣非法生育"},{"start":630.882,"end":645.959,"text":"好,那所以如果說這些都是真的那這麼重要的這個權益措施你們應該要發布新聞稿並在這個官網上面公佈嘛而不是讓人家這樣子宣傳讓很多人去誤解"},{"start":647.46,"end":675.154,"text":"那所以你後續,署長你後續會不會有正式相關的公佈或澄清說明?好,這個委員謝謝,謝謝委員提醒我們因為我們也發現這個有些訊息可能不是一個正確對啊,大家都覺得太好了我們都來這裡非法生小孩好,如果這個資料是錯誤的那請問有沒有意圖透過協助保障外籍勞動權益而實際上是來獲得你們的安置費用的補助你會不會有這樣子的聯想?"},{"start":677.948,"end":691.696,"text":"對,我想我們在這裡做一個合理的懷疑跟推論,你們也應該要去查明嗎?好,這家彰化縣國際勞工關懷協會是不是你們安置補助的單位?是不是?"},{"start":692.736,"end":711.664,"text":"這個應該不是喔,不是我們的安置單位。不是不是。你們再確認,好好確認一下,如果他們提供不正確的訊息打著你們勞動部的名義去誤導,有沒有違反規定,可不可以,就是這樣可不可以就是說再跟你們申請安置的這個補助。我們會馬上去了解他的目前的一個。"},{"start":713.265,"end":726.952,"text":"今天這兩張小小的廣告傳單其實很像以前你們遇到利用授訊補助然後欺騙民眾自費去參訊那我們現在呢就是對於外籍勞工在台灣這個懷孕生小孩這個黑戶寶寶的問題其實已經頭很大了"},{"start":731.458,"end":749.997,"text":"勞動部對於說他們的懷孕問題應該要有一個明確的態度不能睜一隻眼閉一隻眼那因為問題出來你們如果問題出來然後再用個案去處理然後因為我們這樣大家會很有壓力嘛因為我們有一個人權的這個大旗"},{"start":751.699,"end":765.911,"text":"所以問題在丟給衛福部跟縣市政府去收尾嘛那這裡面還有很多涉及到雇主權益啊那我們也不能說啊就這樣我們就要求雇主然後無預期的就是要接受外籍勞工去懷孕生小孩"},{"start":767.232,"end":786.512,"text":"我也是很好奇就是說以前我們都沒有這方面的問題反而呢在我國更重視他們的權益給了很多的這個更多更好的保障之後呢問題卻是越來越多我想我們去保障並提供這個很多的保障是沒有問題"},{"start":788.073,"end":810.197,"text":"但是方法如果造成後續很嚴重的問題,那我們就要好好的來檢討嗎?總不能什麼都推給僱主跟仲介去配合啊?好,署長你怎麼看?對,我想非常謝謝委員。這個其實一定要橫平僱主的權益跟雙方之間。我想這個部分後續我們在相關的一些處理跟規劃我們都會注意這一點。"},{"start":811.208,"end":836.378,"text":"最後我還是在這邊要說謝謝蔡署長也給你表達肯定因為畢竟就是說在這個防疫期間你臨危受命那也就是順利解決這個外籍勞工這個防疫破口的隱憂還有一些錯綜複雜的一些政策所以背後都要有署長站在第一線去處理這些問題也有看到你的身影"},{"start":837.719,"end":856.952,"text":"我想要做個提醒就是目前外籍勞工懷孕生子的問題那未來只會越來越多那彰化縣這個外國人生育諮詢服務中心不等同說他是一個生育鼓勵中心這是不一樣的所以我要在這裡要求你們一定要"},{"start":857.312,"end":857.332,"text":"好,謝謝。"}]}}}}