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\"score\": 0.033}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 638.462, \"end\": 638.482, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:15,263 --> 00:00:39,389\n主席各位同仁這個我這樣在我請這個監察院的理事長上台之前我先就今天的這個議程這個部分我跟這個委員會的同仁大家來探討一下我們今天安排這個審查這個徐巧芯委員等17人擬具的監察院組織法第三條之一跟第三條之二這個\n\n2\n00:00:43,174 --> 00:01:08,999\n以我們過去的慣例我至少在我的立委任內幾乎是我印象中我從來沒有看過說就一個委員的提案然後這個也沒有院版一個委員的提案然後也沒有跟其他案子並討論就今天一個重要我們委員會一個早上就討論一個委員的提案他甚至連其他委員的相同的提案也沒有了齁那這個\n\n3\n00:01:11,254 --> 00:01:39,045\n這個像這樣子的特別的這個議程安排我個人認為說第一個要嘛就是有時間上緊迫性就是這個法律效期到了我們這個時間上有緊迫性所以我們必須要趕快的安排要不然就是說這個議題已經有高度共識社會大家高度共識就是這個沒有什麼爭議的所以我們可以安排不然的話我們這個包括在場我們本委員會的委員大家所提的這個法律案有這麼多\n\n4\n00:01:40,405 --> 00:02:06,516\n我們的案子也沒有被拿出來說安排一個早上的議程就一個案子一個法律案來安排這部分我個人覺得說說這個非常的疑惑甚至剛剛連提案人在提案說明的時候他也說這個他的第三條之二這個有關於什麼叫政治工作呢這個部分還可以有更深入的討論連提案人自己都認為說他所提案的這個法條的構成要件\n\n5\n00:02:09,597 --> 00:02:09,777\n李秘書長\n\n6\n00:02:36,458 --> 00:02:38,659\n我關心的是本委員在排議程的時候怎麼會安排一個這樣子的案子\n\n7\n00:03:06,435 --> 00:03:22,173\n這個部分我們等一下在會議大家再來討論那我們今天既然已經排了這個案子我們還是要就這個案子來看一下說這個這樣子的修正方向到底妥適不妥適剛才這個秘書長在做報告的時候有提到說這個\n\n8\n00:03:24,455 --> 00:03:46,235\n這個我們監察院組織法之所以會有這個第三條之一是因為修憲的關係1992年修憲的關係對1992年修憲他把這個原本以前監察院是三個國會之一嘛對那修憲之後他不是國會了那他應該這個委員要具有一定的資格齁這部分那時候才定定的齁那甚至那時候連統一權的機關那時候還是國民大會啦\n\n9\n00:03:48,957 --> 00:03:55,111\n後來改成立法院,應該是在2000年才改成立法院,大概是2000年\n\n10\n00:03:58,177 --> 00:04:18,352\n所以第三條之一有我們現行條文裡面有五款總共有七個款有七款現行有七款那這個七款基本上都是積極的資格它不是限制說什麼樣的人不得\n\n11\n00:04:19,193 --> 00:04:20,634\n現在我們今天所討論的委員提案提出要訂定消極資格\n\n12\n00:04:40,796 --> 00:04:59,910\n那另外在積極資格裡面他拿掉兩樣拿掉兩款拿掉第一款說承認立法委員一任以上或直轄市議員兩任以上生育著住者那拿掉了那個第六款的這個承認主持新聞文化事業生育著住者\n\n13\n00:05:01,030 --> 00:05:14,058\n那剛才提案說明說要拿到第6條第6款的理由是說他認為這個主觀這個清廉正直富有政治經驗他認為說這個是主觀的認定沒有客觀標準\n\n14\n00:05:15,455 --> 00:05:41,252\n但是我認為說如果按照提案人這樣子的邏輯那恐怕一到七款全部通通要拿掉了因為裡面都有這個成績優異者這個生育卓著者這個在進入每一款都有那這個所謂成績優異也沒有一個成績標準沒有一個說當法官的成績標準這個教授十年以上生育卓著者我們也沒有一個生育卓著者的標準\n\n15\n00:05:42,048 --> 00:06:06,008\n所以如果以這個為理由要拿掉第一款跟第六款那恐怕一到七款全部要拿掉了因為一到七款全部都有這種所謂生育卓著、青年正直這樣子的主觀判斷要件不是嗎我跟省委員報告這個提案裡面拿掉第一款跟第六款最主要是跟政治經驗有關他就主張拿掉那這個部分我們認為有疑慮\n\n16\n00:06:07,890 --> 00:06:24,239\n因為事實上過去立委轉任監委的事實上還不少那第二個第6款的部分我報告完第6款的部分所謂富有政治經驗或是主持新聞文化事業生育卓著第5屆的院長副院長都是以這一款進來的\n\n17\n00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:49,709\n如果這個拿掉的話,恐怕對我們監察委員的多元化會有…這個…這個…這個…這個…民主黨你所看到的點跟我看到的點一樣啦齁這個我們實際上它會造成什麼樣的結果我們等一下來討論,我們先就法理啦齁法理上我認為這個…這個拿掉這個…這個積極資格裡面的這個理由…立法理由我個人認為說它恐怕這個…如果以這個理由拿掉這兩款那恐怕這七款都沒有辦法成立啦齁\n\n18\n00:06:50,569 --> 00:07:00,958\n那接下來我們就他所新增的今天所提的法案所新增的第三條之二也就是他訂定消極資格他這個消極資格他訂定說10年內加入政黨參與任何政治活動不得擔任立法委員就這樣\n\n19\n00:07:16,121 --> 00:07:37,583\n那這個什麼是要做參與政治活動呢?這個就沒有任何的定義了今天在這個舉辦政見會我去聽政見會算不算參與政治活動?我們高中的時候聽黨外政見會的時候背個書包遮住學號怕教官我們躲在樹底下陰暗的樹底下這個算不算參與政治活動?\n\n20\n00:07:39,364 --> 00:07:45,772\n對跟審委員報告這就是我剛說明的兩個部分第一個部分就是所謂10年內10年內不能參與政治活動事實上現在第一個他在這個法院沒有規範\n\n21\n00:07:52,734 --> 00:08:10,623\n事實上我們在其他的法令裡面關於政治活動有不是沒有規範但是每一個法規範政治活動不一樣規範來清楚就是必須依法律獨立行使職權公務人員中立法第7條他就有規定政治活動什麼叫政治活動下列6款政治活動不得參與\n\n22\n00:08:16,906 --> 00:08:41,823\n公務人員中立法有政治獻金法也提到這個相關政治活動但他沒有定義所以他由內政部用函式的方式來定義我們監察院也有自律規範也有相關規定監察院紀律規範有對我們自己的自律規範也有相關規定但是今天所提的這個監察院組織法沒有這個規定而且他限制時間長達10年長達10年這長達10年的結果是什麼呢剛才秘書長已經提到了我們過去\n\n23\n00:08:47,627 --> 00:08:47,808\n沈發惠\n\n24\n00:09:02,045 --> 00:09:04,247\n沈大川副院長沈大川副院長沈大川副院長沈大川副院長\n\n25\n00:09:19,551 --> 00:09:44,176\n都不能當監察委員我們為什麼會去訂立一個條款訂立一個從過去到現在我們大家認為說他適合當監察委員他不適合當監察委員他適合當監察院院長他不適合當監察院院長大家過去的評價社會的評價都跟這個提案完全抵觸那今天國民黨我安排這樣子的一個我覺得國民黨現在是多數黨\n\n26\n00:09:45,909 --> 00:10:07,536\n這種法案你們自己一個黨的委員提案然後把它排入議程排入議程意思就今天要通過這個我們做黨團應該我們副總召你應該要把關一下啦你應該把關一下你自己做多數黨你要有這個社會責任像這樣子的法案今天排出來審查我個人認為是大有疑慮的更何況\n\n27\n00:10:08,736 --> 00:10:29,223\n監察委員的這些積極資格的定定他最後並不是說符合這些資格的人都可以當監察委員錯!最後還必須經過本院行使同意權如果總統提名真的像我們今天的法案提案人講的是這樣的人那樣的人我們還是有本院的同意權在行使阿要不是說總統提名誰就是誰\n\n28\n00:10:30,376 --> 00:10:38,482\n所以我個人認為我們請本委員會的各位委員大家三思今天這個法案我們在審查的過程中如果沒有高度的共識我個人認為是說我們應該花更多的時間來凝聚大家的共識之後我們再通過這個法案以上\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n15263\t39389\t主席各位同仁這個我這樣在我請這個監察院的理事長上台之前我先就今天的這個議程這個部分我跟這個委員會的同仁大家來探討一下我們今天安排這個審查這個徐巧芯委員等17人擬具的監察院組織法第三條之一跟第三條之二這個\n43174\t68999\t以我們過去的慣例我至少在我的立委任內幾乎是我印象中我從來沒有看過說就一個委員的提案然後這個也沒有院版一個委員的提案然後也沒有跟其他案子並討論就今天一個重要我們委員會一個早上就討論一個委員的提案他甚至連其他委員的相同的提案也沒有了齁那這個\n71254\t99045\t這個像這樣子的特別的這個議程安排我個人認為說第一個要嘛就是有時間上緊迫性就是這個法律效期到了我們這個時間上有緊迫性所以我們必須要趕快的安排要不然就是說這個議題已經有高度共識社會大家高度共識就是這個沒有什麼爭議的所以我們可以安排不然的話我們這個包括在場我們本委員會的委員大家所提的這個法律案有這麼多\n100405\t126516\t我們的案子也沒有被拿出來說安排一個早上的議程就一個案子一個法律案來安排這部分我個人覺得說說這個非常的疑惑甚至剛剛連提案人在提案說明的時候他也說這個他的第三條之二這個有關於什麼叫政治工作呢這個部分還可以有更深入的討論連提案人自己都認為說他所提案的這個法條的構成要件\n129597\t129777\t李秘書長\n156458\t158659\t我關心的是本委員在排議程的時候怎麼會安排一個這樣子的案子\n186435\t202173\t這個部分我們等一下在會議大家再來討論那我們今天既然已經排了這個案子我們還是要就這個案子來看一下說這個這樣子的修正方向到底妥適不妥適剛才這個秘書長在做報告的時候有提到說這個\n204455\t226235\t這個我們監察院組織法之所以會有這個第三條之一是因為修憲的關係1992年修憲的關係對1992年修憲他把這個原本以前監察院是三個國會之一嘛對那修憲之後他不是國會了那他應該這個委員要具有一定的資格齁這部分那時候才定定的齁那甚至那時候連統一權的機關那時候還是國民大會啦\n228957\t235111\t後來改成立法院,應該是在2000年才改成立法院,大概是2000年\n238177\t258352\t所以第三條之一有我們現行條文裡面有五款總共有七個款有七款現行有七款那這個七款基本上都是積極的資格它不是限制說什麼樣的人不得\n259193\t260634\t現在我們今天所討論的委員提案提出要訂定消極資格\n280796\t299910\t那另外在積極資格裡面他拿掉兩樣拿掉兩款拿掉第一款說承認立法委員一任以上或直轄市議員兩任以上生育著住者那拿掉了那個第六款的這個承認主持新聞文化事業生育著住者\n301030\t314058\t那剛才提案說明說要拿到第6條第6款的理由是說他認為這個主觀這個清廉正直富有政治經驗他認為說這個是主觀的認定沒有客觀標準\n315455\t341252\t但是我認為說如果按照提案人這樣子的邏輯那恐怕一到七款全部通通要拿掉了因為裡面都有這個成績優異者這個生育卓著者這個在進入每一款都有那這個所謂成績優異也沒有一個成績標準沒有一個說當法官的成績標準這個教授十年以上生育卓著者我們也沒有一個生育卓著者的標準\n342048\t366008\t所以如果以這個為理由要拿掉第一款跟第六款那恐怕一到七款全部要拿掉了因為一到七款全部都有這種所謂生育卓著、青年正直這樣子的主觀判斷要件不是嗎我跟省委員報告這個提案裡面拿掉第一款跟第六款最主要是跟政治經驗有關他就主張拿掉那這個部分我們認為有疑慮\n367890\t384239\t因為事實上過去立委轉任監委的事實上還不少那第二個第6款的部分我報告完第6款的部分所謂富有政治經驗或是主持新聞文化事業生育卓著第5屆的院長副院長都是以這一款進來的\n385880\t409709\t如果這個拿掉的話,恐怕對我們監察委員的多元化會有…這個…這個…這個…這個…民主黨你所看到的點跟我看到的點一樣啦齁這個我們實際上它會造成什麼樣的結果我們等一下來討論,我們先就法理啦齁法理上我認為這個…這個拿掉這個…這個積極資格裡面的這個理由…立法理由我個人認為說它恐怕這個…如果以這個理由拿掉這兩款那恐怕這七款都沒有辦法成立啦齁\n410569\t420958\t那接下來我們就他所新增的今天所提的法案所新增的第三條之二也就是他訂定消極資格他這個消極資格他訂定說10年內加入政黨參與任何政治活動不得擔任立法委員就這樣\n436121\t457583\t那這個什麼是要做參與政治活動呢?這個就沒有任何的定義了今天在這個舉辦政見會我去聽政見會算不算參與政治活動?我們高中的時候聽黨外政見會的時候背個書包遮住學號怕教官我們躲在樹底下陰暗的樹底下這個算不算參與政治活動?\n459364\t465772\t對跟審委員報告這就是我剛說明的兩個部分第一個部分就是所謂10年內10年內不能參與政治活動事實上現在第一個他在這個法院沒有規範\n472734\t490623\t事實上我們在其他的法令裡面關於政治活動有不是沒有規範但是每一個法規範政治活動不一樣規範來清楚就是必須依法律獨立行使職權公務人員中立法第7條他就有規定政治活動什麼叫政治活動下列6款政治活動不得參與\n496906\t521823\t公務人員中立法有政治獻金法也提到這個相關政治活動但他沒有定義所以他由內政部用函式的方式來定義我們監察院也有自律規範也有相關規定監察院紀律規範有對我們自己的自律規範也有相關規定但是今天所提的這個監察院組織法沒有這個規定而且他限制時間長達10年長達10年這長達10年的結果是什麼呢剛才秘書長已經提到了我們過去\n527627\t527808\t沈發惠\n542045\t544247\t沈大川副院長沈大川副院長沈大川副院長沈大川副院長\n559551\t584176\t都不能當監察委員我們為什麼會去訂立一個條款訂立一個從過去到現在我們大家認為說他適合當監察委員他不適合當監察委員他適合當監察院院長他不適合當監察院院長大家過去的評價社會的評價都跟這個提案完全抵觸那今天國民黨我安排這樣子的一個我覺得國民黨現在是多數黨\n585909\t607536\t這種法案你們自己一個黨的委員提案然後把它排入議程排入議程意思就今天要通過這個我們做黨團應該我們副總召你應該要把關一下啦你應該把關一下你自己做多數黨你要有這個社會責任像這樣子的法案今天排出來審查我個人認為是大有疑慮的更何況\n608736\t629223\t監察委員的這些積極資格的定定他最後並不是說符合這些資格的人都可以當監察委員錯!最後還必須經過本院行使同意權如果總統提名真的像我們今天的法案提案人講的是這樣的人那樣的人我們還是有本院的同意權在行使阿要不是說總統提名誰就是誰\n630376\t638482\t所以我個人認為我們請本委員會的各位委員大家三思今天這個法案我們在審查的過程中如果沒有高度的共識我個人認為是說我們應該花更多的時間來凝聚大家的共識之後我們再通過這個法案以上\n","txt":"主席各位同仁這個我這樣在我請這個監察院的理事長上台之前我先就今天的這個議程這個部分我跟這個委員會的同仁大家來探討一下我們今天安排這個審查這個徐巧芯委員等17人擬具的監察院組織法第三條之一跟第三條之二這個\n以我們過去的慣例我至少在我的立委任內幾乎是我印象中我從來沒有看過說就一個委員的提案然後這個也沒有院版一個委員的提案然後也沒有跟其他案子並討論就今天一個重要我們委員會一個早上就討論一個委員的提案他甚至連其他委員的相同的提案也沒有了齁那這個\n這個像這樣子的特別的這個議程安排我個人認為說第一個要嘛就是有時間上緊迫性就是這個法律效期到了我們這個時間上有緊迫性所以我們必須要趕快的安排要不然就是說這個議題已經有高度共識社會大家高度共識就是這個沒有什麼爭議的所以我們可以安排不然的話我們這個包括在場我們本委員會的委員大家所提的這個法律案有這麼多\n我們的案子也沒有被拿出來說安排一個早上的議程就一個案子一個法律案來安排這部分我個人覺得說說這個非常的疑惑甚至剛剛連提案人在提案說明的時候他也說這個他的第三條之二這個有關於什麼叫政治工作呢這個部分還可以有更深入的討論連提案人自己都認為說他所提案的這個法條的構成要件\n李秘書長\n我關心的是本委員在排議程的時候怎麼會安排一個這樣子的案子\n這個部分我們等一下在會議大家再來討論那我們今天既然已經排了這個案子我們還是要就這個案子來看一下說這個這樣子的修正方向到底妥適不妥適剛才這個秘書長在做報告的時候有提到說這個\n這個我們監察院組織法之所以會有這個第三條之一是因為修憲的關係1992年修憲的關係對1992年修憲他把這個原本以前監察院是三個國會之一嘛對那修憲之後他不是國會了那他應該這個委員要具有一定的資格齁這部分那時候才定定的齁那甚至那時候連統一權的機關那時候還是國民大會啦\n後來改成立法院,應該是在2000年才改成立法院,大概是2000年\n所以第三條之一有我們現行條文裡面有五款總共有七個款有七款現行有七款那這個七款基本上都是積極的資格它不是限制說什麼樣的人不得\n現在我們今天所討論的委員提案提出要訂定消極資格\n那另外在積極資格裡面他拿掉兩樣拿掉兩款拿掉第一款說承認立法委員一任以上或直轄市議員兩任以上生育著住者那拿掉了那個第六款的這個承認主持新聞文化事業生育著住者\n那剛才提案說明說要拿到第6條第6款的理由是說他認為這個主觀這個清廉正直富有政治經驗他認為說這個是主觀的認定沒有客觀標準\n但是我認為說如果按照提案人這樣子的邏輯那恐怕一到七款全部通通要拿掉了因為裡面都有這個成績優異者這個生育卓著者這個在進入每一款都有那這個所謂成績優異也沒有一個成績標準沒有一個說當法官的成績標準這個教授十年以上生育卓著者我們也沒有一個生育卓著者的標準\n所以如果以這個為理由要拿掉第一款跟第六款那恐怕一到七款全部要拿掉了因為一到七款全部都有這種所謂生育卓著、青年正直這樣子的主觀判斷要件不是嗎我跟省委員報告這個提案裡面拿掉第一款跟第六款最主要是跟政治經驗有關他就主張拿掉那這個部分我們認為有疑慮\n因為事實上過去立委轉任監委的事實上還不少那第二個第6款的部分我報告完第6款的部分所謂富有政治經驗或是主持新聞文化事業生育卓著第5屆的院長副院長都是以這一款進來的\n如果這個拿掉的話,恐怕對我們監察委員的多元化會有…這個…這個…這個…這個…民主黨你所看到的點跟我看到的點一樣啦齁這個我們實際上它會造成什麼樣的結果我們等一下來討論,我們先就法理啦齁法理上我認為這個…這個拿掉這個…這個積極資格裡面的這個理由…立法理由我個人認為說它恐怕這個…如果以這個理由拿掉這兩款那恐怕這七款都沒有辦法成立啦齁\n那接下來我們就他所新增的今天所提的法案所新增的第三條之二也就是他訂定消極資格他這個消極資格他訂定說10年內加入政黨參與任何政治活動不得擔任立法委員就這樣\n那這個什麼是要做參與政治活動呢?這個就沒有任何的定義了今天在這個舉辦政見會我去聽政見會算不算參與政治活動?我們高中的時候聽黨外政見會的時候背個書包遮住學號怕教官我們躲在樹底下陰暗的樹底下這個算不算參與政治活動?\n對跟審委員報告這就是我剛說明的兩個部分第一個部分就是所謂10年內10年內不能參與政治活動事實上現在第一個他在這個法院沒有規範\n事實上我們在其他的法令裡面關於政治活動有不是沒有規範但是每一個法規範政治活動不一樣規範來清楚就是必須依法律獨立行使職權公務人員中立法第7條他就有規定政治活動什麼叫政治活動下列6款政治活動不得參與\n公務人員中立法有政治獻金法也提到這個相關政治活動但他沒有定義所以他由內政部用函式的方式來定義我們監察院也有自律規範也有相關規定監察院紀律規範有對我們自己的自律規範也有相關規定但是今天所提的這個監察院組織法沒有這個規定而且他限制時間長達10年長達10年這長達10年的結果是什麼呢剛才秘書長已經提到了我們過去\n沈發惠\n沈大川副院長沈大川副院長沈大川副院長沈大川副院長\n都不能當監察委員我們為什麼會去訂立一個條款訂立一個從過去到現在我們大家認為說他適合當監察委員他不適合當監察委員他適合當監察院院長他不適合當監察院院長大家過去的評價社會的評價都跟這個提案完全抵觸那今天國民黨我安排這樣子的一個我覺得國民黨現在是多數黨\n這種法案你們自己一個黨的委員提案然後把它排入議程排入議程意思就今天要通過這個我們做黨團應該我們副總召你應該要把關一下啦你應該把關一下你自己做多數黨你要有這個社會責任像這樣子的法案今天排出來審查我個人認為是大有疑慮的更何況\n監察委員的這些積極資格的定定他最後並不是說符合這些資格的人都可以當監察委員錯!最後還必須經過本院行使同意權如果總統提名真的像我們今天的法案提案人講的是這樣的人那樣的人我們還是有本院的同意權在行使阿要不是說總統提名誰就是誰\n所以我個人認為我們請本委員會的各位委員大家三思今天這個法案我們在審查的過程中如果沒有高度的共識我個人認為是說我們應該花更多的時間來凝聚大家的共識之後我們再通過這個法案以上\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:15.263 --> 00:39.389\n主席各位同仁這個我這樣在我請這個監察院的理事長上台之前我先就今天的這個議程這個部分我跟這個委員會的同仁大家來探討一下我們今天安排這個審查這個徐巧芯委員等17人擬具的監察院組織法第三條之一跟第三條之二這個\n\n00:43.174 --> 01:08.999\n以我們過去的慣例我至少在我的立委任內幾乎是我印象中我從來沒有看過說就一個委員的提案然後這個也沒有院版一個委員的提案然後也沒有跟其他案子並討論就今天一個重要我們委員會一個早上就討論一個委員的提案他甚至連其他委員的相同的提案也沒有了齁那這個\n\n01:11.254 --> 01:39.045\n這個像這樣子的特別的這個議程安排我個人認為說第一個要嘛就是有時間上緊迫性就是這個法律效期到了我們這個時間上有緊迫性所以我們必須要趕快的安排要不然就是說這個議題已經有高度共識社會大家高度共識就是這個沒有什麼爭議的所以我們可以安排不然的話我們這個包括在場我們本委員會的委員大家所提的這個法律案有這麼多\n\n01:40.405 --> 02:06.516\n我們的案子也沒有被拿出來說安排一個早上的議程就一個案子一個法律案來安排這部分我個人覺得說說這個非常的疑惑甚至剛剛連提案人在提案說明的時候他也說這個他的第三條之二這個有關於什麼叫政治工作呢這個部分還可以有更深入的討論連提案人自己都認為說他所提案的這個法條的構成要件\n\n02:09.597 --> 02:09.777\n李秘書長\n\n02:36.458 --> 02:38.659\n我關心的是本委員在排議程的時候怎麼會安排一個這樣子的案子\n\n03:06.435 --> 03:22.173\n這個部分我們等一下在會議大家再來討論那我們今天既然已經排了這個案子我們還是要就這個案子來看一下說這個這樣子的修正方向到底妥適不妥適剛才這個秘書長在做報告的時候有提到說這個\n\n03:24.455 --> 03:46.235\n這個我們監察院組織法之所以會有這個第三條之一是因為修憲的關係1992年修憲的關係對1992年修憲他把這個原本以前監察院是三個國會之一嘛對那修憲之後他不是國會了那他應該這個委員要具有一定的資格齁這部分那時候才定定的齁那甚至那時候連統一權的機關那時候還是國民大會啦\n\n03:48.957 --> 03:55.111\n後來改成立法院,應該是在2000年才改成立法院,大概是2000年\n\n03:58.177 --> 04:18.352\n所以第三條之一有我們現行條文裡面有五款總共有七個款有七款現行有七款那這個七款基本上都是積極的資格它不是限制說什麼樣的人不得\n\n04:19.193 --> 04:20.634\n現在我們今天所討論的委員提案提出要訂定消極資格\n\n04:40.796 --> 04:59.910\n那另外在積極資格裡面他拿掉兩樣拿掉兩款拿掉第一款說承認立法委員一任以上或直轄市議員兩任以上生育著住者那拿掉了那個第六款的這個承認主持新聞文化事業生育著住者\n\n05:01.030 --> 05:14.058\n那剛才提案說明說要拿到第6條第6款的理由是說他認為這個主觀這個清廉正直富有政治經驗他認為說這個是主觀的認定沒有客觀標準\n\n05:15.455 --> 05:41.252\n但是我認為說如果按照提案人這樣子的邏輯那恐怕一到七款全部通通要拿掉了因為裡面都有這個成績優異者這個生育卓著者這個在進入每一款都有那這個所謂成績優異也沒有一個成績標準沒有一個說當法官的成績標準這個教授十年以上生育卓著者我們也沒有一個生育卓著者的標準\n\n05:42.048 --> 06:06.008\n所以如果以這個為理由要拿掉第一款跟第六款那恐怕一到七款全部要拿掉了因為一到七款全部都有這種所謂生育卓著、青年正直這樣子的主觀判斷要件不是嗎我跟省委員報告這個提案裡面拿掉第一款跟第六款最主要是跟政治經驗有關他就主張拿掉那這個部分我們認為有疑慮\n\n06:07.890 --> 06:24.239\n因為事實上過去立委轉任監委的事實上還不少那第二個第6款的部分我報告完第6款的部分所謂富有政治經驗或是主持新聞文化事業生育卓著第5屆的院長副院長都是以這一款進來的\n\n06:25.880 --> 06:49.709\n如果這個拿掉的話,恐怕對我們監察委員的多元化會有…這個…這個…這個…這個…民主黨你所看到的點跟我看到的點一樣啦齁這個我們實際上它會造成什麼樣的結果我們等一下來討論,我們先就法理啦齁法理上我認為這個…這個拿掉這個…這個積極資格裡面的這個理由…立法理由我個人認為說它恐怕這個…如果以這個理由拿掉這兩款那恐怕這七款都沒有辦法成立啦齁\n\n06:50.569 --> 07:00.958\n那接下來我們就他所新增的今天所提的法案所新增的第三條之二也就是他訂定消極資格他這個消極資格他訂定說10年內加入政黨參與任何政治活動不得擔任立法委員就這樣\n\n07:16.121 --> 07:37.583\n那這個什麼是要做參與政治活動呢?這個就沒有任何的定義了今天在這個舉辦政見會我去聽政見會算不算參與政治活動?我們高中的時候聽黨外政見會的時候背個書包遮住學號怕教官我們躲在樹底下陰暗的樹底下這個算不算參與政治活動?\n\n07:39.364 --> 07:45.772\n對跟審委員報告這就是我剛說明的兩個部分第一個部分就是所謂10年內10年內不能參與政治活動事實上現在第一個他在這個法院沒有規範\n\n07:52.734 --> 08:10.623\n事實上我們在其他的法令裡面關於政治活動有不是沒有規範但是每一個法規範政治活動不一樣規範來清楚就是必須依法律獨立行使職權公務人員中立法第7條他就有規定政治活動什麼叫政治活動下列6款政治活動不得參與\n\n08:16.906 --> 08:41.823\n公務人員中立法有政治獻金法也提到這個相關政治活動但他沒有定義所以他由內政部用函式的方式來定義我們監察院也有自律規範也有相關規定監察院紀律規範有對我們自己的自律規範也有相關規定但是今天所提的這個監察院組織法沒有這個規定而且他限制時間長達10年長達10年這長達10年的結果是什麼呢剛才秘書長已經提到了我們過去\n\n08:47.627 --> 08:47.808\n沈發惠\n\n09:02.045 --> 09:04.247\n沈大川副院長沈大川副院長沈大川副院長沈大川副院長\n\n09:19.551 --> 09:44.176\n都不能當監察委員我們為什麼會去訂立一個條款訂立一個從過去到現在我們大家認為說他適合當監察委員他不適合當監察委員他適合當監察院院長他不適合當監察院院長大家過去的評價社會的評價都跟這個提案完全抵觸那今天國民黨我安排這樣子的一個我覺得國民黨現在是多數黨\n\n09:45.909 --> 10:07.536\n這種法案你們自己一個黨的委員提案然後把它排入議程排入議程意思就今天要通過這個我們做黨團應該我們副總召你應該要把關一下啦你應該把關一下你自己做多數黨你要有這個社會責任像這樣子的法案今天排出來審查我個人認為是大有疑慮的更何況\n\n10:08.736 --> 10:29.223\n監察委員的這些積極資格的定定他最後並不是說符合這些資格的人都可以當監察委員錯!最後還必須經過本院行使同意權如果總統提名真的像我們今天的法案提案人講的是這樣的人那樣的人我們還是有本院的同意權在行使阿要不是說總統提名誰就是誰\n\n10:30.376 --> 10:38.482\n所以我個人認為我們請本委員會的各位委員大家三思今天這個法案我們在審查的過程中如果沒有高度的共識我個人認為是說我們應該花更多的時間來凝聚大家的共識之後我們再通過這個法案以上\n\n","segments":[{"start":15.263,"end":39.389,"text":"主席各位同仁這個我這樣在我請這個監察院的理事長上台之前我先就今天的這個議程這個部分我跟這個委員會的同仁大家來探討一下我們今天安排這個審查這個徐巧芯委員等17人擬具的監察院組織法第三條之一跟第三條之二這個"},{"start":43.174,"end":68.999,"text":"以我們過去的慣例我至少在我的立委任內幾乎是我印象中我從來沒有看過說就一個委員的提案然後這個也沒有院版一個委員的提案然後也沒有跟其他案子並討論就今天一個重要我們委員會一個早上就討論一個委員的提案他甚至連其他委員的相同的提案也沒有了齁那這個"},{"start":71.254,"end":99.045,"text":"這個像這樣子的特別的這個議程安排我個人認為說第一個要嘛就是有時間上緊迫性就是這個法律效期到了我們這個時間上有緊迫性所以我們必須要趕快的安排要不然就是說這個議題已經有高度共識社會大家高度共識就是這個沒有什麼爭議的所以我們可以安排不然的話我們這個包括在場我們本委員會的委員大家所提的這個法律案有這麼多"},{"start":100.405,"end":126.516,"text":"我們的案子也沒有被拿出來說安排一個早上的議程就一個案子一個法律案來安排這部分我個人覺得說說這個非常的疑惑甚至剛剛連提案人在提案說明的時候他也說這個他的第三條之二這個有關於什麼叫政治工作呢這個部分還可以有更深入的討論連提案人自己都認為說他所提案的這個法條的構成要件"},{"start":129.597,"end":129.777,"text":"李秘書長"},{"start":156.458,"end":158.659,"text":"我關心的是本委員在排議程的時候怎麼會安排一個這樣子的案子"},{"start":186.435,"end":202.173,"text":"這個部分我們等一下在會議大家再來討論那我們今天既然已經排了這個案子我們還是要就這個案子來看一下說這個這樣子的修正方向到底妥適不妥適剛才這個秘書長在做報告的時候有提到說這個"},{"start":204.455,"end":226.235,"text":"這個我們監察院組織法之所以會有這個第三條之一是因為修憲的關係1992年修憲的關係對1992年修憲他把這個原本以前監察院是三個國會之一嘛對那修憲之後他不是國會了那他應該這個委員要具有一定的資格齁這部分那時候才定定的齁那甚至那時候連統一權的機關那時候還是國民大會啦"},{"start":228.957,"end":235.111,"text":"後來改成立法院,應該是在2000年才改成立法院,大概是2000年"},{"start":238.177,"end":258.352,"text":"所以第三條之一有我們現行條文裡面有五款總共有七個款有七款現行有七款那這個七款基本上都是積極的資格它不是限制說什麼樣的人不得"},{"start":259.193,"end":260.634,"text":"現在我們今天所討論的委員提案提出要訂定消極資格"},{"start":280.796,"end":299.91,"text":"那另外在積極資格裡面他拿掉兩樣拿掉兩款拿掉第一款說承認立法委員一任以上或直轄市議員兩任以上生育著住者那拿掉了那個第六款的這個承認主持新聞文化事業生育著住者"},{"start":301.03,"end":314.058,"text":"那剛才提案說明說要拿到第6條第6款的理由是說他認為這個主觀這個清廉正直富有政治經驗他認為說這個是主觀的認定沒有客觀標準"},{"start":315.455,"end":341.252,"text":"但是我認為說如果按照提案人這樣子的邏輯那恐怕一到七款全部通通要拿掉了因為裡面都有這個成績優異者這個生育卓著者這個在進入每一款都有那這個所謂成績優異也沒有一個成績標準沒有一個說當法官的成績標準這個教授十年以上生育卓著者我們也沒有一個生育卓著者的標準"},{"start":342.048,"end":366.008,"text":"所以如果以這個為理由要拿掉第一款跟第六款那恐怕一到七款全部要拿掉了因為一到七款全部都有這種所謂生育卓著、青年正直這樣子的主觀判斷要件不是嗎我跟省委員報告這個提案裡面拿掉第一款跟第六款最主要是跟政治經驗有關他就主張拿掉那這個部分我們認為有疑慮"},{"start":367.89,"end":384.239,"text":"因為事實上過去立委轉任監委的事實上還不少那第二個第6款的部分我報告完第6款的部分所謂富有政治經驗或是主持新聞文化事業生育卓著第5屆的院長副院長都是以這一款進來的"},{"start":385.88,"end":409.709,"text":"如果這個拿掉的話,恐怕對我們監察委員的多元化會有…這個…這個…這個…這個…民主黨你所看到的點跟我看到的點一樣啦齁這個我們實際上它會造成什麼樣的結果我們等一下來討論,我們先就法理啦齁法理上我認為這個…這個拿掉這個…這個積極資格裡面的這個理由…立法理由我個人認為說它恐怕這個…如果以這個理由拿掉這兩款那恐怕這七款都沒有辦法成立啦齁"},{"start":410.569,"end":420.958,"text":"那接下來我們就他所新增的今天所提的法案所新增的第三條之二也就是他訂定消極資格他這個消極資格他訂定說10年內加入政黨參與任何政治活動不得擔任立法委員就這樣"},{"start":436.121,"end":457.583,"text":"那這個什麼是要做參與政治活動呢?這個就沒有任何的定義了今天在這個舉辦政見會我去聽政見會算不算參與政治活動?我們高中的時候聽黨外政見會的時候背個書包遮住學號怕教官我們躲在樹底下陰暗的樹底下這個算不算參與政治活動?"},{"start":459.364,"end":465.772,"text":"對跟審委員報告這就是我剛說明的兩個部分第一個部分就是所謂10年內10年內不能參與政治活動事實上現在第一個他在這個法院沒有規範"},{"start":472.734,"end":490.623,"text":"事實上我們在其他的法令裡面關於政治活動有不是沒有規範但是每一個法規範政治活動不一樣規範來清楚就是必須依法律獨立行使職權公務人員中立法第7條他就有規定政治活動什麼叫政治活動下列6款政治活動不得參與"},{"start":496.906,"end":521.823,"text":"公務人員中立法有政治獻金法也提到這個相關政治活動但他沒有定義所以他由內政部用函式的方式來定義我們監察院也有自律規範也有相關規定監察院紀律規範有對我們自己的自律規範也有相關規定但是今天所提的這個監察院組織法沒有這個規定而且他限制時間長達10年長達10年這長達10年的結果是什麼呢剛才秘書長已經提到了我們過去"},{"start":527.627,"end":527.808,"text":"沈發惠"},{"start":542.045,"end":544.247,"text":"沈大川副院長沈大川副院長沈大川副院長沈大川副院長"},{"start":559.551,"end":584.176,"text":"都不能當監察委員我們為什麼會去訂立一個條款訂立一個從過去到現在我們大家認為說他適合當監察委員他不適合當監察委員他適合當監察院院長他不適合當監察院院長大家過去的評價社會的評價都跟這個提案完全抵觸那今天國民黨我安排這樣子的一個我覺得國民黨現在是多數黨"},{"start":585.909,"end":607.536,"text":"這種法案你們自己一個黨的委員提案然後把它排入議程排入議程意思就今天要通過這個我們做黨團應該我們副總召你應該要把關一下啦你應該把關一下你自己做多數黨你要有這個社會責任像這樣子的法案今天排出來審查我個人認為是大有疑慮的更何況"},{"start":608.736,"end":629.223,"text":"監察委員的這些積極資格的定定他最後並不是說符合這些資格的人都可以當監察委員錯!最後還必須經過本院行使同意權如果總統提名真的像我們今天的法案提案人講的是這樣的人那樣的人我們還是有本院的同意權在行使阿要不是說總統提名誰就是誰"},{"start":630.376,"end":638.482,"text":"所以我個人認為我們請本委員會的各位委員大家三思今天這個法案我們在審查的過程中如果沒有高度的共識我個人認為是說我們應該花更多的時間來凝聚大家的共識之後我們再通過這個法案以上"}]}}}}