{"id":151806,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151806","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e90f54132b1096e68e1f4dbc11096b5b054712d423581dcc34e2527b10508eee1d216fa11ae63dd35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"09:25:39 - 09:38:55","影片長度":"00:13:16","會議時間":"2024-04-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請文化部、教育部、內政部、法務部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部及行政院主計總處列席就「表演及運動賽事黃牛票氾濫，相關單位取締、防範及執法成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢。（4月29日及5月2日二天一次會））","date":"2024-04-29","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-10"},"duration":796,"end_time":"2024-04-29T09:38:55+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-29T09:25:39+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":166,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（9時25分）主席謝謝，麻煩請文化部次長、體育署署長及數位發展部代表。"],["主席：請3位代表，謝謝。"],["王次長時思：委員早。"],["鄭署長世忠：委員早。"],["洪委員孟楷：我先請教鄭署長另外一個議題，也是大家非常關注的，體育署關心地方政府優化一些球員場地，其中包括職棒場地的部分，我們看到最近有兩個場地被大家拿來比較，一個是桃園，大家過去認為桃園球場排水不利，但是經過桃園市政府的修繕之後重新開放了，反而以前會淹水的地方，現在不會淹水了。對比高雄澄清湖棒球場，今年終於有台鋼要把它當主場，沒有想到在上禮拜居然發現球場裡面有30公分的L鐵條插在紅土裡。署長，有沒有注意到這個新聞？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，我有打電話去請教運發局局長，這是單一事件，他的回應是他們懷疑應該是之前排水工程不小心遺落下來的，他們有用金屬探測器把全場掃描過一遍，應該是沒有其他的疑慮了。"],["洪委員孟楷：怎麼會那麼離譜？在一個球場裡面有L鐵條，而且是30公分的L鐵條，還好發現得早，不是讓球員發現，不是在比賽途中發現，不然很有可能會造成選手受傷、球員受傷。針對這樣的狀況，球員工會也說應該要再去處理和瞭解，現在是單一個案而已嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：目前是，他們後面也在中華職棒聯盟的建議之下，用金屬探測器整個掃過了，後面不會產生這個問題才對。"],["洪委員孟楷：如果是這樣的話，本席都不禁懷疑，這是不是之前就已經留下來的鐵條，本席也看到體育署之前有補助澄清湖棒球場做這些整建工程。"],["鄭署長世忠：這一件不是體育署補助的，我們最後一次補助澄清湖案子是106年。"],["洪委員孟楷：2017年，對不對？所以這個案子不是體育署補助。"],["鄭署長世忠：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是在球場裡面發現有鐵條，其實是非常離譜的事情。"],["鄭署長世忠：這部分我們也是請運發局要特別關注施工品質。"],["洪委員孟楷：如果真的是施工品質有問題，尤其是驗收有沒有確認到底有沒有人為疏失？"],["鄭署長世忠：他們還在調查當中。"],["洪委員孟楷：體育署能不能要求地方政府什麼時候給體育署回報？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，因為這個案子畢竟不是我們補助的，可能有困難，但是我們還是會請他們說明，我再來跟委員報告。"],["洪委員孟楷：我覺得重點在於體育署身為中央主管機關，尤其是各球場的部分，沒有錯，這個案子不是體育署補助的，但是高雄市政府在4月初也發了新聞稿表示要積極爭取體育署之後的球場補助，如果是這樣的施工品質，我真的很難想像體育署補助更大筆的錢，施工品質要怎麼把關？"],["鄭署長世忠：這部分體育署會來加強。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以還是要請體育署確認這有沒有人為疏失，以及後續的懲處，好嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：再來，請問次長。"],["王次長時思：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：我確認一下，現在新法上路之後，你們已經有裁罰，針對檢舉黃牛的部分，文化部有提供相關獎金嗎？"],["王次長時思：有，有檢舉獎金。"],["洪委員孟楷：目前發了多少檢舉獎金？"],["王次長時思：檢舉獎金目前已經發出去四萬八千多，還有五萬多還在持續……"],["洪委員孟楷：我們的檢舉獎金已經發了幾筆？"],["王次長時思：有3件4萬6,840元是已經發了，另外還有14案還沒有發，因為這14案有一些狀況需要做最後的確認，包括有的是匿名、有的是訴願被撤回，其中甚至有牽涉到恐嚇取財，所以還沒有發出。"],["洪委員孟楷：OK，這3件已經確定的檢舉獎金都是有抓到相關的黃牛，對不對？"],["王次長時思：對，是本案成立的情況上。"],["洪委員孟楷：剛剛本席看到體育署的報告裡面有1件六千多元，相對來講，這也可以讓民眾瞭解，現在我們是真的抵制黃牛這樣的行為，因為我們不希望黃牛的行為助長，很多人講市場是一個供需，但是我們希望大家循合法管道購買，不要找黃牛買票。如果真的有檢舉獎金，也應該適時的讓大家知道，現在看起來體育署已經有第一件出來了，文化部這邊有3件。但是再拉回來，次長，你有沒有注意到現在黃牛擔心售黃牛票會吃上刑責，而竟然改賣假票來詐騙，有沒有注意到這樣的新聞？"],["王次長時思：有，其實委員非常清楚這個狀況，現在最困擾的不只是黃牛，而是詐欺，它轉成詐騙，所以我們也要提醒，現在購買黃牛票的風險會更高，不只是要付出很高的代價，更重要是可能根本沒有那張票，所以針對詐欺的狀況，刑事警察局也有提高對詐欺的偵查，我們覺得這也是黃牛票的類型裡面現在的趨勢。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是本席真的很納悶，誠如跟剛剛萬委員質詢的地方一樣，在過去這一年裡面，各部會都已經討論非常多次，包括藝文票、體育票，我們都希望告訴大家正確的觀念以及要防堵黃牛文化的惡行，但沒想到黃牛現在好像反而變本加厲，從原本賣黃牛票而已，現在變成改做詐騙犯。"],["王次長時思：以數量來說是下降的。"],["洪委員孟楷：我們要做的到底是什麼？立法院修法是為了要對付黃牛，怎麼感覺反而導致黃牛變成詐騙集團，會不會讓大家覺得我們好像越打越詐？"],["王次長時思：委員，就數量整體來說其實是下降的，包括委員應該有看到之前媒體報導所謂專業經營黃牛搶票程式的，也都移出臺灣或是歇業，所以整體大規模搶票的數量是下降，但是還是像委員剛剛所說的，市場有需求就會轉化成其他的方式，道高一尺、魔高一丈，詐欺的方式是我們認為現在新的方式。"],["洪委員孟楷：我請教一下，剛剛次長也特別提到兩點，一點是專業經營，一點是有一些售票網站做得比較好，可以防止這種專業的掃票機器人。"],["王次長時思：對，它的程式做得比較好。"],["洪委員孟楷：你們掌握有多少專業經營的黃牛集團在臺灣橫行？"],["王次長時思：之前媒體報導至少有兩家，就是有規模化的，譬如有雇員在做專業搶票，我們知道的有兩家。"],["洪委員孟楷：目前這兩家的蹤跡還有在臺灣嗎？"],["王次長時思：第一個，他們有說停止了、公司解散，有一家是改到國外去，不做臺灣市場，因為臺灣有刑責的問題。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以刑責還是會有一定的嚇阻作用。"],["王次長時思：我想應該是一定有的。"],["洪委員孟楷：另外，剛剛你提到有一些售票網站相對來講是做得比較好的，有哪些售票網站是做得比較好的？"],["王次長時思：委員，我再私下跟你說，因為有……"],["洪委員孟楷：這不是私下，因為現在在討論，我覺得這很務實。次長，我要釐清一個觀念，今天並不是要探詢什麼商業機密等等，而是售票網站有很多，你既然已經提到有一些售票網站做得比較好，確實有把掃票機器人排除在外，你應該要以這樣的條件和規範來要求其他售票網站也可以一起來做。如果其他售票網站做不到的話，是不是能夠請數發部協助技術的支援，或是能夠怎麼提升，把這個門檻整個加高，而不是每一次售票的黃牛行為都變成是消費者去承擔，不是嗎？"],["王次長時思：第一個是協助的部分，其實這些售票平臺有自己的資訊部門，我們的確有跟他們洽談，希望他們提高這個技術，但是這個資訊部門也牽涉到投資進去的經費，所以我剛剛為什麼……"],["洪委員孟楷：投資多少經費可以讓文化部次長覺得這個售票網站是比較好，可以掃除掃票機器人？"],["王次長時思：這些比較專業投資多少錢的事情，其實我們並不知道，要看售票網站的經營及售票網站的規模，跟他想要達到的效果，由它的……"],["洪委員孟楷：次長，這個就是積極度與否。我覺得也請署長、次長都要一起來瞭解，因為剛剛我跟萬美玲委員在臺下，當然這是抓署長的語病，可是你的書面報告是講，你會積極地呼籲黃牛不要以身試法，我們現在想說：哇！政府機關到最後的作法、結語是積極地跟黃牛喊話，你們不要再來買黃牛票了，還給消費者。不對！積極用錯方向。如果剛剛依照次長的邏輯，這一點也是我們認為應該要從根本下手，如果售票網站可以加強資安，讓掃票機器人沒有辦法有作用的話，當然就可以還給一般普羅大眾，大家就各憑本事，今天我開3個手機、5個手機去搶票，至少我是真人，我請兄弟、姐妹、爸爸、媽媽幫忙一起搶，我覺得這都還是情有可原，因為我搶票是為了我自己去看，但是如果有人用程式、惡意地去掃票，他就是想要圖利、想要營利……"],["王次長時思：不一樣，沒錯。"],["洪委員孟楷：你剛剛說有些售票網站做得比較好，可以排除掃票機器人，我們就應該去瞭解這個售票網做得比較好，它是投資了多少錢？假設500萬就可以排除掃票機器人，講不客氣的，我們就要求其他售票網站也要比照辦理，否則在整個公平的智慧平臺、公平的自由市場上，你可能就會造成犯法的漏洞。"],["王次長時思：跟委員說明，因為它畢竟……"],["洪委員孟楷：應該是由主管機關要有一點作為，不管是強制力也好，不管是誘導也好，不管是相對補助也好，我覺得都應該去做，提高掃票機器人進入的門檻，讓整個售票還給一般自由大眾市場，不是這樣子嗎？"],["王次長時思：我想要求他們跟協助他們，是我們非常樂意去做的，包括輔導他們，但因為它是自由市場……"],["洪委員孟楷：是！但目前做的程度，聽起來就是沒有。"],["王次長時思：有。我們其實是很積極的跟這些售票平臺溝通，委員可以看到每個演唱會主辦單位一出來，我們就會立刻跟主辦單位跟售票平臺聯絡，只要有消息，我們就趕快去請他們採取比較有效的措施。"],["洪委員孟楷：次長，我知道你今天很積極地搶話……"],["王次長時思：不好意思。"],["洪委員孟楷：我希望你防堵黃牛的積極態度，也跟在委員會備詢時搶話一樣積極就好。","最後我只提醒，因為現在黃牛還有變種，不只是賣票，他們故意賣其他的部分，像賣麥克風一萬塊送兩張原價的演唱會票，有沒有看到這種樣態？"],["王次長時思：有，這也被我們當作一個個案類型……"],["洪委員孟楷：有看到嘛？"],["王次長時思：有。"],["洪委員孟楷：這種樣態能不能被檢舉？"],["王次長時思：可以被檢舉。"],["洪委員孟楷：明明賣一支筆一萬塊，但是送兩張原價票，醉翁之意不在酒，他根本不是要賣這支筆，其實他是要賣那兩張票，那兩張票就是變形的黃牛，這樣的樣態可以被檢舉？"],["王次長時思：可以，綁物的部分……"],["洪委員孟楷：你們有查獲這樣的狀況嗎？"],["王次長時思：目前這個部分還在查察，我們還沒有特定的個案可以看到是因為綁物販售而被定罪的，但這個的確是……"],["洪委員孟楷：是不是能夠找法務部門也來研議，就是要提出指引給販售網站或者是一些網購平臺，這樣的樣態其實也是符合黃牛條款，也是會有刑責的。"],["王次長時思：瞭解，可以。"],["洪委員孟楷：什麼時候能夠做到？是不是開會討論？"],["王次長時思：可以。"],["洪委員孟楷：一個月內提出相關的指引辦法，好嗎？"],["王次長時思：指引可以，好。"],["洪委員孟楷：一個月內提出這種變種黃牛，我們常講上有政策，下有對策，但我們不希望變成漏洞，所以請文化部召集相關單位，一個月內針對變種黃牛的行為，提出相關的指引辦法來要求業者，不應該有這樣的變種黃牛行為。"],["王次長時思：可以。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，謝謝。"],["主席：接下來請陳培瑜委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":310,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-10","speakers":["柯志恩","萬美玲","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","葛如鈞","葉元之","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","范雲","張雅琳","吳春城","羅廷瑋","黃珊珊","黃捷","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","邱志偉","張啓楷","羅智強","林倩綺","林楚茵","劉建國"],"page_start":243,"meetingDate":["2024-04-29"],"gazette_id":"1133901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133901_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請文化部、教育部、內政部、法務部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部及行政院主計總處列\n席就「表演及運動賽事黃牛票氾濫，相關單位取締、防範及執法成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1133901_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"151806","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151806","tool":"pyannote","id":"151806-pyannote"},"job_id":"woO2271Jg3DCeas6","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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\"報告委員因為這個案子畢竟不是我們補助的可能有困難但是我們還是會請他們說明我再來跟委辦這邊跟本委員報告我覺得重點在於是體育署身為我們中央主管機關尤其是各球場的部分因為本期看到沒有錯這個案子不是體育署補助但是高雄市政府在4月初也發一個新聞稿說要積極爭取體育署之後的球場補助\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 175.094, \"end\": 175.254, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 175.254, \"end\": 175.534, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 175.534, \"end\": 176.074, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 176.074, \"end\": 176.274, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 176.274, \"end\": 176.555, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"畢\"}, {\"word\": \"竟\", \"start\": 176.555, \"end\": 176.715, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 176.715, \"end\": 176.815, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 176.815, \"end\": 176.915, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 176.915, \"end\": 177.295, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", 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0.857}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 772.316, \"end\": 772.416, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 772.416, \"end\": 772.616, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 772.616, \"end\": 772.816, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"牛\", \"start\": 772.816, \"end\": 772.956, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 772.956, \"end\": 773.096, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 773.096, \"end\": 773.616, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 773.616, \"end\": 773.636, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,505 --> 00:00:14,849\n主席謝謝麻煩請文化部次長、體育署署長跟我們數位發展部的代表好我們請三位代表謝謝\n\n2\n00:00:20,361 --> 00:00:39,183\n委員長來抱歉我先請教鄭署長好不好來鄭署長我先請教另外一個議題也是大家非常關注就是說體育署這邊關心這地方政府優化我們的一些球員場地那其中包括說職棒場地的部分那我們就看到是說最近有兩個場地被大家來做比較一個是桃園\n\n3\n00:00:39,804 --> 00:00:40,204\n蘇長有沒有注意到這個新聞?\n\n4\n00:01:08,320 --> 00:01:32,525\n報告委員我有打電話去請教那個運發局的局長是那單一事件他是回應說那個地方是他們懷疑應該是之前排水工程不小心遺落下來但是他們用整個金屬探測器去把全場去掃描過一遍應該是沒有其他的疑慮了但怎麼會有那麼離譜在一個球場裡面有L鐵條而且30公分\n\n5\n00:01:33,444 --> 00:01:59,790\n的一個L鐵條那還好是發現得早不是讓球員去發現不是在比賽途中發現不然很有可能就會造成我們的選手受傷我們的球員受傷那這樣的一個狀況球員工會這邊也講是說應該要再去做一個處理跟一個了解那現在是單一個案而已嗎目前是因為他們也後面也在中華子棒這邊聯盟的建議之下他們也是有整個金屬探測器整個掃過了\n\n6\n00:02:01,010 --> 00:02:01,451\n目前這個問題應該是後面不會產生的才對\n\n7\n00:02:06,175 --> 00:02:33,072\n但有沒有確認是說到底那個因為如果這樣的話因為本席都不禁懷疑是說這是不是之前就已經有留下來的一個鐵條那本席也看過之前我們體育署也有補助我們澄清湖棒球場來做這一些整建工程當然時間比較久這件不是體育署補助的因為我們最後一次補助澄清湖的案子是106年的時候2017年嘛對不對所以說這一個案子不是體育署補助但是會這樣工程裡面發現球場裡面有這種鐵條其實是非常離譜的事情\n\n8\n00:02:36,194 --> 00:02:53,733\n這部分我們也是請運發局這邊特別要關注那個施工的品質而且到最後如果說這個施工品質有問題那尤其是驗收有沒有確認是說到有沒有人為疏失他們還在調查當中體育署能不能來要求我們地方政府這邊什麼時候來給我們體育署這邊做回報\n\n9\n00:02:55,094 --> 00:03:18,563\n報告委員因為這個案子畢竟不是我們補助的可能有困難但是我們還是會請他們說明我再來跟委辦這邊跟本委員報告我覺得重點在於是體育署身為我們中央主管機關尤其是各球場的部分因為本期看到沒有錯這個案子不是體育署補助但是高雄市政府在4月初也發一個新聞稿說要積極爭取體育署之後的球場補助\n\n10\n00:03:21,224 --> 00:03:29,672\n所以如果說用這樣的一個施工品質的話我真的很難想像說體育署如果補助更大筆的錢我們的施工品質要怎麼把關所以還是要請體育署這邊來確認說這有沒有人為疏失那以及後續的一個懲處好嗎好謝謝來再來次長\n\n11\n00:03:39,497 --> 00:03:56,402\n委員好確認一下說我們現在這個新法上任之後我們有總共裁罰那我們如果說真的有檢舉的這個黃牛的一個部分我們有提供相關獎金嗎有有有檢舉獎金那檢舉獎金目前發了多少費用檢舉獎金目前已經有48000多吧已經發出去還有5萬多還在持續幾筆我們檢舉獎金已經發了幾筆\n\n12\n00:04:09,005 --> 00:04:27,410\n有三件46840元是已經發了對另外還有14案還沒有發那因為這14案有一些狀況需要最後的確認包括有的可能是匿名有的是有訴願可能被撤回或者是有牽涉到一個其中有甚至有牽涉到恐嚇取材所以還沒有發出\n\n13\n00:04:28,190 --> 00:04:51,186\n但是這14件這三件已經確定的檢舉獎金都是有抓到這個相關的黃牛嗎?對不對?對對對是本案成立的情況下那體育署這邊剛本席有看到就是說你的這個報告裡面是有一件對不對?6000多塊所以本席講是說這相對來講也可以讓這個民眾來了解就是說現在我們是真的\n\n14\n00:04:51,946 --> 00:04:52,286\n李宗盛議員\n\n15\n00:05:17,916 --> 00:05:46,998\n市長有沒有注意到現在黃牛說擔心受黃牛票吃上刑責而竟然改賣假票來詐騙這個有沒有注意到這樣的一個新聞現在其實委員非常清楚這個狀況現在其實最困擾的不只是黃牛而是詐欺就它轉成詐騙所以我們也要提醒就是說現在購買黃牛票的風險會更高它不只是說你要有很高的代價更重要的是你可能根本沒有那張票\n\n16\n00:05:47,799 --> 00:05:51,841\n所以在這裡詐欺的狀況讓行政長大局也有提高他們整個針對詐欺這一塊的偵查那也是黃牛票的這個類型裡面我們覺得現在的趨勢了是啊但是本席真的很納悶就是說現在跟連同剛剛我們萬委員之間質詢的地方一樣\n\n17\n00:06:06,767 --> 00:06:34,134\n就是說我們已經在過去這一年裡面大家各部會都已經討論了非常多次包括說藝文票包括說體育票我們就希望是告訴大家正確的觀念以及我們要防堵這樣子的一個黃牛的一個文化惡行但沒想到黃牛現在好像反而變本加厲從原本賣黃牛票而已現在變成是改做詐騙犯那到底我們要去做的是立法院修法是要對付黃牛怎麼感覺反而是導致黃牛變成是詐騙集團\n\n18\n00:06:36,077 --> 00:06:37,858\n這會不會讓大家覺得好像我們越打越炸?\n\n19\n00:07:05,216 --> 00:07:05,796\n目前這兩家的中基還有在台灣嗎?\n\n20\n00:07:34,918 --> 00:08:00,630\n他們都在第一個是說他們有說不在台灣就是停止了公司解散那有一家是說他就改到國外去他不要做台灣的市場因為台灣有刑責的問題所以有刑責還是會有一定的嚇阻作用還是一般人我想應該是有一定有的那另外剛剛你有提到是說有一些售票網站相對來講是比較做得比較好有哪些售票網站是做比較好的\n\n21\n00:08:01,204 --> 00:08:23,127\n委員我再私下跟你說這不是私下不是因為會有市長本席因為現在在討論我覺得這很務實喔不是因為會有我現在講是說很多的售票網站不是市長我要釐清一個觀念今天並不是要探尋什麼商業機密或等等的部分而是售票網站有很多那你既然已經有提到是說有一些售票網站他做得比較好是確實有把\n\n22\n00:08:24,028 --> 00:08:46,147\n小票機器人給排除在外的那你應該是以這樣子的一個條件跟規範來要求其他的售票網站也可以一起來做那如果說其他售票網站做不到的話是不是能夠請速發部這邊來協助技術的支援或是怎麼樣能夠提升把這個門檻整個加高而不是每一次這種售票的黃牛的這樣的一個行為都變成是消費者大家去承擔啊\n\n23\n00:08:47,528 --> 00:08:47,788\n不是嗎?不是嗎?\n\n24\n00:09:16,580 --> 00:09:28,696\n這個就是積極度與否來我覺得也請署長、次長這邊都要一起來瞭解因為剛剛其實我跟外媒領委員我們在台下當然這個是抓署長與並可是你的書面報告是講說你會積極的呼籲\n\n25\n00:09:33,321 --> 00:09:56,808\n黃牛不要以身試法我們現在講說哇我們的政府機關到最後我們的做法結語是積極的跟黃牛喊話你們不要再來買黃牛票了還給消費者不對積極用錯方向如果說剛剛依照市長你的邏輯其實這一點也是我們認為應該要從根本下手如果售票網站它可以加強它的資安讓\n\n26\n00:09:58,128 --> 00:10:15,182\n掃票機器人沒有辦法有作用的話那當然就可以還給一般普羅大眾大家就各憑本事我今天我開三個手機五個手機我去搶票至少我是真人我每個請兄弟姐妹爸爸媽媽幫忙一起搶我覺得這都還是情有可原因為我搶我是要為了我自己去看\n\n27\n00:10:15,842 --> 00:10:34,279\n但是如果說有人用城市二月去掃票那他就是想要圖利想要盈利那你剛剛講說有些售票網站他做得比較好可以把掃票機器人給排除那我們就要應該去了解這個售票網站做得比較好他是投資了多少錢假設500萬就可以有這樣的一個掃票機器人給排除的話\n\n28\n00:10:35,160 --> 00:11:02,171\n那講不客氣的我們就要求其他售票網站也要比照辦理否則你不應該在這整個公平的智慧平台公平的自由市場上你可能就會造成一個犯法的漏洞應該是有主管機關這邊要有一點不管是強制力也好不管是這個誘導也好不管是相對補助也好我覺得都應該來去做來提高這種少票機器人進入的門檻讓還給整個售票一般的自由大眾市場不是這樣子嗎\n\n29\n00:11:02,731 --> 00:11:02,811\n市長,說實在話,市長\n\n30\n00:11:25,134 --> 00:11:53,808\n我知道你今天很積極地搶話我希望你防堵黃牛的積極態度也跟在委員會備詢的時候積極搶話一樣積極就好最後我只提醒因為現在還有黃牛他們有變種就是不是只是賣票他們故意賣其他的部分賣麥克風一萬塊送兩張原價的演唱會票有沒有看到這種樣態有這也被我們當作一個有被有看到嘛那這種樣態能不能被檢舉\n\n31\n00:11:55,461 --> 00:12:08,476\n如果說我明明賣一支筆一萬塊但是我送兩張原價票那罪翁之意不在酒他根本不是要賣這支筆他其實要賣那兩張票那兩張票就是變形的黃牛那這樣的一個樣態可以被檢舉我們有查獲這樣的一個狀況嗎目前\n\n32\n00:12:14,342 --> 00:12:38,835\n這個部分還在查查我們還沒有特定的個案是可以看到是因為綁物的販售而被定罪的那這樣子是不是能夠找我們的這個法務部門也來演繹就說要提出指引給販售網站或者是說一些這個網購平台這樣的一個樣態其實也是符合我們的黃牛條款也是會有刑責的了解\n\n33\n00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:45,607\n可以什麼時候能夠做到是不是開會討論可以一個月內提出\n\n34\n00:12:46,932 --> 00:12:53,636\n請文化部召集相關單位一個月內針對這種變種黃牛的行為提出相關的指引辦法來要求業者不應該有這樣的一個變種黃牛的行為好謝謝謝謝謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7505\t14849\t主席謝謝麻煩請文化部次長、體育署署長跟我們數位發展部的代表好我們請三位代表謝謝\n20361\t39183\t委員長來抱歉我先請教鄭署長好不好來鄭署長我先請教另外一個議題也是大家非常關注就是說體育署這邊關心這地方政府優化我們的一些球員場地那其中包括說職棒場地的部分那我們就看到是說最近有兩個場地被大家來做比較一個是桃園\n39804\t40204\t蘇長有沒有注意到這個新聞?\n68320\t92525\t報告委員我有打電話去請教那個運發局的局長是那單一事件他是回應說那個地方是他們懷疑應該是之前排水工程不小心遺落下來但是他們用整個金屬探測器去把全場去掃描過一遍應該是沒有其他的疑慮了但怎麼會有那麼離譜在一個球場裡面有L鐵條而且30公分\n93444\t119790\t的一個L鐵條那還好是發現得早不是讓球員去發現不是在比賽途中發現不然很有可能就會造成我們的選手受傷我們的球員受傷那這樣的一個狀況球員工會這邊也講是說應該要再去做一個處理跟一個了解那現在是單一個案而已嗎目前是因為他們也後面也在中華子棒這邊聯盟的建議之下他們也是有整個金屬探測器整個掃過了\n121010\t121451\t目前這個問題應該是後面不會產生的才對\n126175\t153072\t但有沒有確認是說到底那個因為如果這樣的話因為本席都不禁懷疑是說這是不是之前就已經有留下來的一個鐵條那本席也看過之前我們體育署也有補助我們澄清湖棒球場來做這一些整建工程當然時間比較久這件不是體育署補助的因為我們最後一次補助澄清湖的案子是106年的時候2017年嘛 對不對所以說這一個案子不是體育署補助但是會這樣工程裡面發現球場裡面有這種鐵條其實是非常離譜的事情\n156194\t173733\t這部分我們也是請運發局這邊特別要關注那個施工的品質而且到最後如果說這個施工品質有問題那尤其是驗收有沒有確認是說到有沒有人為疏失他們還在調查當中體育署能不能來要求我們地方政府這邊什麼時候來給我們體育署這邊做回報\n175094\t198563\t報告委員因為這個案子畢竟不是我們補助的可能有困難但是我們還是會請他們說明我再來跟委辦這邊跟本委員報告我覺得重點在於是體育署身為我們中央主管機關尤其是各球場的部分因為本期看到沒有錯這個案子不是體育署補助但是高雄市政府在4月初也發一個新聞稿說要積極爭取體育署之後的球場補助\n201224\t209672\t所以如果說用這樣的一個施工品質的話我真的很難想像說體育署如果補助更大筆的錢我們的施工品質要怎麼把關所以還是要請體育署這邊來確認說這有沒有人為疏失那以及後續的一個懲處好嗎好 謝謝來再來 次長\n219497\t236402\t委員好確認一下說我們現在這個新法上任之後我們有總共裁罰那我們如果說真的有檢舉的這個黃牛的一個部分我們有提供相關獎金嗎有有有檢舉獎金那檢舉獎金目前發了多少費用檢舉獎金目前已經有48000多吧已經發出去還有5萬多還在持續幾筆我們檢舉獎金已經發了幾筆\n249005\t267410\t有三件46840元是已經發了對另外還有14案還沒有發那因為這14案有一些狀況需要最後的確認包括有的可能是匿名有的是有訴願可能被撤回或者是有牽涉到一個其中有甚至有牽涉到恐嚇取材所以還沒有發出\n268190\t291186\t但是這14件這三件已經確定的檢舉獎金都是有抓到這個相關的黃牛嗎?對不對?對對對是本案成立的情況下那體育署這邊剛本席有看到就是說你的這個報告裡面是有一件對不對?6000多塊所以本席講是說這相對來講也可以讓這個民眾來了解就是說現在我們是真的\n291946\t292286\t李宗盛議員\n317916\t346998\t市長有沒有注意到現在黃牛說擔心受黃牛票吃上刑責而竟然改賣假票來詐騙這個有沒有注意到這樣的一個新聞現在其實委員非常清楚這個狀況現在其實最困擾的不只是黃牛而是詐欺就它轉成詐騙所以我們也要提醒就是說現在購買黃牛票的風險會更高它不只是說你要有很高的代價更重要的是你可能根本沒有那張票\n347799\t351841\t所以在這裡 詐欺的狀況讓行政長大局也有提高他們整個針對詐欺這一塊的偵查那也是黃牛票的這個類型裡面我們覺得現在的趨勢了是啊 但是本席真的很納悶就是說現在跟連同剛剛我們萬委員之間質詢的地方一樣\n366767\t394134\t就是說我們已經在過去這一年裡面大家各部會都已經討論了非常多次包括說藝文票包括說體育票我們就希望是告訴大家正確的觀念以及我們要防堵這樣子的一個黃牛的一個文化惡行但沒想到黃牛現在好像反而變本加厲從原本賣黃牛票而已現在變成是改做詐騙犯那到底我們要去做的是立法院修法是要對付黃牛怎麼感覺反而是導致黃牛變成是詐騙集團\n396077\t397858\t這會不會讓大家覺得好像我們越打越炸?\n425216\t425796\t目前這兩家的中基還有在台灣嗎?\n454918\t480630\t他們都在第一個是說他們有說不在台灣就是停止了公司解散那有一家是說他就改到國外去他不要做台灣的市場因為台灣有刑責的問題所以有刑責還是會有一定的嚇阻作用還是一般人我想應該是有一定有的那另外剛剛你有提到是說有一些售票網站相對來講是比較做得比較好有哪些售票網站是做比較好的\n481204\t503127\t委員我再私下跟你說這不是私下不是因為會有市長本席因為現在在討論我覺得這很務實喔不是因為會有我現在講是說很多的售票網站不是市長我要釐清一個觀念今天並不是要探尋什麼商業機密或等等的部分而是售票網站有很多那你既然已經有提到是說有一些售票網站他做得比較好是確實有把\n504028\t526147\t小票機器人給排除在外的那你應該是以這樣子的一個條件跟規範來要求其他的售票網站也可以一起來做那如果說其他售票網站做不到的話是不是能夠請速發部這邊來協助技術的支援或是怎麼樣能夠提升把這個門檻整個加高而不是每一次這種售票的黃牛的這樣的一個行為都變成是消費者大家去承擔啊\n527528\t527788\t不是嗎?不是嗎?\n556580\t568696\t這個就是積極度與否來 我覺得也請署長、次長這邊都要一起來瞭解因為剛剛其實我跟外媒領委員我們在台下當然這個是抓署長與並可是你的書面報告是講說你會積極的呼籲\n573321\t596808\t黃牛不要以身試法我們現在講說哇我們的政府機關到最後我們的做法結語是積極的跟黃牛喊話你們不要再來買黃牛票了還給消費者不對積極用錯方向如果說剛剛依照市長你的邏輯其實這一點也是我們認為應該要從根本下手如果售票網站它可以加強它的資安讓\n598128\t615182\t掃票機器人沒有辦法有作用的話那當然就可以還給一般普羅大眾大家就各憑本事我今天我開三個手機五個手機我去搶票至少我是真人我每個請兄弟姐妹爸爸媽媽幫忙一起搶我覺得這都還是情有可原因為我搶我是要為了我自己去看\n615842\t634279\t但是如果說有人用城市二月去掃票那他就是想要圖利想要盈利那你剛剛講說有些售票網站他做得比較好可以把掃票機器人給排除那我們就要應該去了解這個售票網站做得比較好他是投資了多少錢假設500萬就可以有這樣的一個掃票機器人給排除的話\n635160\t662171\t那講不客氣的我們就要求其他售票網站也要比照辦理否則你不應該在這整個公平的智慧平台公平的自由市場上你可能就會造成一個犯法的漏洞應該是有主管機關這邊要有一點不管是強制力也好不管是這個誘導也好不管是相對補助也好我覺得都應該來去做來提高這種少票機器人進入的門檻讓還給整個售票一般的自由大眾市場不是這樣子嗎\n662731\t662811\t市長,說實在話,市長\n685134\t713808\t我知道你今天很積極地搶話我希望你防堵黃牛的積極態度也跟在委員會備詢的時候積極搶話一樣積極就好最後我只提醒因為現在還有黃牛他們有變種就是不是只是賣票他們故意賣其他的部分賣麥克風一萬塊送兩張原價的演唱會票有沒有看到這種樣態有 這也被我們當作一個有被 有看到嘛那這種樣態能不能被檢舉\n715461\t728476\t如果說我明明賣一支筆一萬塊但是我送兩張原價票那罪翁之意不在酒他根本不是要賣這支筆他其實要賣那兩張票那兩張票就是變形的黃牛那這樣的一個樣態可以被檢舉我們有查獲這樣的一個狀況嗎目前\n734342\t758835\t這個部分還在查查我們還沒有特定的個案是可以看到是因為綁物的販售而被定罪的那這樣子是不是能夠找我們的這個法務部門也來演繹就說要提出指引給販售網站或者是說一些這個網購平台這樣的一個樣態其實也是符合我們的黃牛條款也是會有刑責的了解\n759960\t765607\t可以什麼時候能夠做到是不是開會討論可以一個月內提出\n766932\t773636\t請文化部召集相關單位一個月內針對這種變種黃牛的行為提出相關的指引辦法來要求業者不應該有這樣的一個變種黃牛的行為好 謝謝謝謝 謝謝\n","txt":"主席謝謝麻煩請文化部次長、體育署署長跟我們數位發展部的代表好我們請三位代表謝謝\n委員長來抱歉我先請教鄭署長好不好來鄭署長我先請教另外一個議題也是大家非常關注就是說體育署這邊關心這地方政府優化我們的一些球員場地那其中包括說職棒場地的部分那我們就看到是說最近有兩個場地被大家來做比較一個是桃園\n蘇長有沒有注意到這個新聞?\n報告委員我有打電話去請教那個運發局的局長是那單一事件他是回應說那個地方是他們懷疑應該是之前排水工程不小心遺落下來但是他們用整個金屬探測器去把全場去掃描過一遍應該是沒有其他的疑慮了但怎麼會有那麼離譜在一個球場裡面有L鐵條而且30公分\n的一個L鐵條那還好是發現得早不是讓球員去發現不是在比賽途中發現不然很有可能就會造成我們的選手受傷我們的球員受傷那這樣的一個狀況球員工會這邊也講是說應該要再去做一個處理跟一個了解那現在是單一個案而已嗎目前是因為他們也後面也在中華子棒這邊聯盟的建議之下他們也是有整個金屬探測器整個掃過了\n目前這個問題應該是後面不會產生的才對\n但有沒有確認是說到底那個因為如果這樣的話因為本席都不禁懷疑是說這是不是之前就已經有留下來的一個鐵條那本席也看過之前我們體育署也有補助我們澄清湖棒球場來做這一些整建工程當然時間比較久這件不是體育署補助的因為我們最後一次補助澄清湖的案子是106年的時候2017年嘛 對不對所以說這一個案子不是體育署補助但是會這樣工程裡面發現球場裡面有這種鐵條其實是非常離譜的事情\n這部分我們也是請運發局這邊特別要關注那個施工的品質而且到最後如果說這個施工品質有問題那尤其是驗收有沒有確認是說到有沒有人為疏失他們還在調查當中體育署能不能來要求我們地方政府這邊什麼時候來給我們體育署這邊做回報\n報告委員因為這個案子畢竟不是我們補助的可能有困難但是我們還是會請他們說明我再來跟委辦這邊跟本委員報告我覺得重點在於是體育署身為我們中央主管機關尤其是各球場的部分因為本期看到沒有錯這個案子不是體育署補助但是高雄市政府在4月初也發一個新聞稿說要積極爭取體育署之後的球場補助\n所以如果說用這樣的一個施工品質的話我真的很難想像說體育署如果補助更大筆的錢我們的施工品質要怎麼把關所以還是要請體育署這邊來確認說這有沒有人為疏失那以及後續的一個懲處好嗎好 謝謝來再來 次長\n委員好確認一下說我們現在這個新法上任之後我們有總共裁罰那我們如果說真的有檢舉的這個黃牛的一個部分我們有提供相關獎金嗎有有有檢舉獎金那檢舉獎金目前發了多少費用檢舉獎金目前已經有48000多吧已經發出去還有5萬多還在持續幾筆我們檢舉獎金已經發了幾筆\n有三件46840元是已經發了對另外還有14案還沒有發那因為這14案有一些狀況需要最後的確認包括有的可能是匿名有的是有訴願可能被撤回或者是有牽涉到一個其中有甚至有牽涉到恐嚇取材所以還沒有發出\n但是這14件這三件已經確定的檢舉獎金都是有抓到這個相關的黃牛嗎?對不對?對對對是本案成立的情況下那體育署這邊剛本席有看到就是說你的這個報告裡面是有一件對不對?6000多塊所以本席講是說這相對來講也可以讓這個民眾來了解就是說現在我們是真的\n李宗盛議員\n市長有沒有注意到現在黃牛說擔心受黃牛票吃上刑責而竟然改賣假票來詐騙這個有沒有注意到這樣的一個新聞現在其實委員非常清楚這個狀況現在其實最困擾的不只是黃牛而是詐欺就它轉成詐騙所以我們也要提醒就是說現在購買黃牛票的風險會更高它不只是說你要有很高的代價更重要的是你可能根本沒有那張票\n所以在這裡 詐欺的狀況讓行政長大局也有提高他們整個針對詐欺這一塊的偵查那也是黃牛票的這個類型裡面我們覺得現在的趨勢了是啊 但是本席真的很納悶就是說現在跟連同剛剛我們萬委員之間質詢的地方一樣\n就是說我們已經在過去這一年裡面大家各部會都已經討論了非常多次包括說藝文票包括說體育票我們就希望是告訴大家正確的觀念以及我們要防堵這樣子的一個黃牛的一個文化惡行但沒想到黃牛現在好像反而變本加厲從原本賣黃牛票而已現在變成是改做詐騙犯那到底我們要去做的是立法院修法是要對付黃牛怎麼感覺反而是導致黃牛變成是詐騙集團\n這會不會讓大家覺得好像我們越打越炸?\n目前這兩家的中基還有在台灣嗎?\n他們都在第一個是說他們有說不在台灣就是停止了公司解散那有一家是說他就改到國外去他不要做台灣的市場因為台灣有刑責的問題所以有刑責還是會有一定的嚇阻作用還是一般人我想應該是有一定有的那另外剛剛你有提到是說有一些售票網站相對來講是比較做得比較好有哪些售票網站是做比較好的\n委員我再私下跟你說這不是私下不是因為會有市長本席因為現在在討論我覺得這很務實喔不是因為會有我現在講是說很多的售票網站不是市長我要釐清一個觀念今天並不是要探尋什麼商業機密或等等的部分而是售票網站有很多那你既然已經有提到是說有一些售票網站他做得比較好是確實有把\n小票機器人給排除在外的那你應該是以這樣子的一個條件跟規範來要求其他的售票網站也可以一起來做那如果說其他售票網站做不到的話是不是能夠請速發部這邊來協助技術的支援或是怎麼樣能夠提升把這個門檻整個加高而不是每一次這種售票的黃牛的這樣的一個行為都變成是消費者大家去承擔啊\n不是嗎?不是嗎?\n這個就是積極度與否來 我覺得也請署長、次長這邊都要一起來瞭解因為剛剛其實我跟外媒領委員我們在台下當然這個是抓署長與並可是你的書面報告是講說你會積極的呼籲\n黃牛不要以身試法我們現在講說哇我們的政府機關到最後我們的做法結語是積極的跟黃牛喊話你們不要再來買黃牛票了還給消費者不對積極用錯方向如果說剛剛依照市長你的邏輯其實這一點也是我們認為應該要從根本下手如果售票網站它可以加強它的資安讓\n掃票機器人沒有辦法有作用的話那當然就可以還給一般普羅大眾大家就各憑本事我今天我開三個手機五個手機我去搶票至少我是真人我每個請兄弟姐妹爸爸媽媽幫忙一起搶我覺得這都還是情有可原因為我搶我是要為了我自己去看\n但是如果說有人用城市二月去掃票那他就是想要圖利想要盈利那你剛剛講說有些售票網站他做得比較好可以把掃票機器人給排除那我們就要應該去了解這個售票網站做得比較好他是投資了多少錢假設500萬就可以有這樣的一個掃票機器人給排除的話\n那講不客氣的我們就要求其他售票網站也要比照辦理否則你不應該在這整個公平的智慧平台公平的自由市場上你可能就會造成一個犯法的漏洞應該是有主管機關這邊要有一點不管是強制力也好不管是這個誘導也好不管是相對補助也好我覺得都應該來去做來提高這種少票機器人進入的門檻讓還給整個售票一般的自由大眾市場不是這樣子嗎\n市長,說實在話,市長\n我知道你今天很積極地搶話我希望你防堵黃牛的積極態度也跟在委員會備詢的時候積極搶話一樣積極就好最後我只提醒因為現在還有黃牛他們有變種就是不是只是賣票他們故意賣其他的部分賣麥克風一萬塊送兩張原價的演唱會票有沒有看到這種樣態有 這也被我們當作一個有被 有看到嘛那這種樣態能不能被檢舉\n如果說我明明賣一支筆一萬塊但是我送兩張原價票那罪翁之意不在酒他根本不是要賣這支筆他其實要賣那兩張票那兩張票就是變形的黃牛那這樣的一個樣態可以被檢舉我們有查獲這樣的一個狀況嗎目前\n這個部分還在查查我們還沒有特定的個案是可以看到是因為綁物的販售而被定罪的那這樣子是不是能夠找我們的這個法務部門也來演繹就說要提出指引給販售網站或者是說一些這個網購平台這樣的一個樣態其實也是符合我們的黃牛條款也是會有刑責的了解\n可以什麼時候能夠做到是不是開會討論可以一個月內提出\n請文化部召集相關單位一個月內針對這種變種黃牛的行為提出相關的指引辦法來要求業者不應該有這樣的一個變種黃牛的行為好 謝謝謝謝 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.505 --> 00:14.849\n主席謝謝麻煩請文化部次長、體育署署長跟我們數位發展部的代表好我們請三位代表謝謝\n\n00:20.361 --> 00:39.183\n委員長來抱歉我先請教鄭署長好不好來鄭署長我先請教另外一個議題也是大家非常關注就是說體育署這邊關心這地方政府優化我們的一些球員場地那其中包括說職棒場地的部分那我們就看到是說最近有兩個場地被大家來做比較一個是桃園\n\n00:39.804 --> 00:40.204\n蘇長有沒有注意到這個新聞?\n\n01:08.320 --> 01:32.525\n報告委員我有打電話去請教那個運發局的局長是那單一事件他是回應說那個地方是他們懷疑應該是之前排水工程不小心遺落下來但是他們用整個金屬探測器去把全場去掃描過一遍應該是沒有其他的疑慮了但怎麼會有那麼離譜在一個球場裡面有L鐵條而且30公分\n\n01:33.444 --> 01:59.790\n的一個L鐵條那還好是發現得早不是讓球員去發現不是在比賽途中發現不然很有可能就會造成我們的選手受傷我們的球員受傷那這樣的一個狀況球員工會這邊也講是說應該要再去做一個處理跟一個了解那現在是單一個案而已嗎目前是因為他們也後面也在中華子棒這邊聯盟的建議之下他們也是有整個金屬探測器整個掃過了\n\n02:01.010 --> 02:01.451\n目前這個問題應該是後面不會產生的才對\n\n02:06.175 --> 02:33.072\n但有沒有確認是說到底那個因為如果這樣的話因為本席都不禁懷疑是說這是不是之前就已經有留下來的一個鐵條那本席也看過之前我們體育署也有補助我們澄清湖棒球場來做這一些整建工程當然時間比較久這件不是體育署補助的因為我們最後一次補助澄清湖的案子是106年的時候2017年嘛對不對所以說這一個案子不是體育署補助但是會這樣工程裡面發現球場裡面有這種鐵條其實是非常離譜的事情\n\n02:36.194 --> 02:53.733\n這部分我們也是請運發局這邊特別要關注那個施工的品質而且到最後如果說這個施工品質有問題那尤其是驗收有沒有確認是說到有沒有人為疏失他們還在調查當中體育署能不能來要求我們地方政府這邊什麼時候來給我們體育署這邊做回報\n\n02:55.094 --> 03:18.563\n報告委員因為這個案子畢竟不是我們補助的可能有困難但是我們還是會請他們說明我再來跟委辦這邊跟本委員報告我覺得重點在於是體育署身為我們中央主管機關尤其是各球場的部分因為本期看到沒有錯這個案子不是體育署補助但是高雄市政府在4月初也發一個新聞稿說要積極爭取體育署之後的球場補助\n\n03:21.224 --> 03:29.672\n所以如果說用這樣的一個施工品質的話我真的很難想像說體育署如果補助更大筆的錢我們的施工品質要怎麼把關所以還是要請體育署這邊來確認說這有沒有人為疏失那以及後續的一個懲處好嗎好謝謝來再來次長\n\n03:39.497 --> 03:56.402\n委員好確認一下說我們現在這個新法上任之後我們有總共裁罰那我們如果說真的有檢舉的這個黃牛的一個部分我們有提供相關獎金嗎有有有檢舉獎金那檢舉獎金目前發了多少費用檢舉獎金目前已經有48000多吧已經發出去還有5萬多還在持續幾筆我們檢舉獎金已經發了幾筆\n\n04:09.005 --> 04:27.410\n有三件46840元是已經發了對另外還有14案還沒有發那因為這14案有一些狀況需要最後的確認包括有的可能是匿名有的是有訴願可能被撤回或者是有牽涉到一個其中有甚至有牽涉到恐嚇取材所以還沒有發出\n\n04:28.190 --> 04:51.186\n但是這14件這三件已經確定的檢舉獎金都是有抓到這個相關的黃牛嗎?對不對?對對對是本案成立的情況下那體育署這邊剛本席有看到就是說你的這個報告裡面是有一件對不對?6000多塊所以本席講是說這相對來講也可以讓這個民眾來了解就是說現在我們是真的\n\n04:51.946 --> 04:52.286\n李宗盛議員\n\n05:17.916 --> 05:46.998\n市長有沒有注意到現在黃牛說擔心受黃牛票吃上刑責而竟然改賣假票來詐騙這個有沒有注意到這樣的一個新聞現在其實委員非常清楚這個狀況現在其實最困擾的不只是黃牛而是詐欺就它轉成詐騙所以我們也要提醒就是說現在購買黃牛票的風險會更高它不只是說你要有很高的代價更重要的是你可能根本沒有那張票\n\n05:47.799 --> 05:51.841\n所以在這裡詐欺的狀況讓行政長大局也有提高他們整個針對詐欺這一塊的偵查那也是黃牛票的這個類型裡面我們覺得現在的趨勢了是啊但是本席真的很納悶就是說現在跟連同剛剛我們萬委員之間質詢的地方一樣\n\n06:06.767 --> 06:34.134\n就是說我們已經在過去這一年裡面大家各部會都已經討論了非常多次包括說藝文票包括說體育票我們就希望是告訴大家正確的觀念以及我們要防堵這樣子的一個黃牛的一個文化惡行但沒想到黃牛現在好像反而變本加厲從原本賣黃牛票而已現在變成是改做詐騙犯那到底我們要去做的是立法院修法是要對付黃牛怎麼感覺反而是導致黃牛變成是詐騙集團\n\n06:36.077 --> 06:37.858\n這會不會讓大家覺得好像我們越打越炸?\n\n07:05.216 --> 07:05.796\n目前這兩家的中基還有在台灣嗎?\n\n07:34.918 --> 08:00.630\n他們都在第一個是說他們有說不在台灣就是停止了公司解散那有一家是說他就改到國外去他不要做台灣的市場因為台灣有刑責的問題所以有刑責還是會有一定的嚇阻作用還是一般人我想應該是有一定有的那另外剛剛你有提到是說有一些售票網站相對來講是比較做得比較好有哪些售票網站是做比較好的\n\n08:01.204 --> 08:23.127\n委員我再私下跟你說這不是私下不是因為會有市長本席因為現在在討論我覺得這很務實喔不是因為會有我現在講是說很多的售票網站不是市長我要釐清一個觀念今天並不是要探尋什麼商業機密或等等的部分而是售票網站有很多那你既然已經有提到是說有一些售票網站他做得比較好是確實有把\n\n08:24.028 --> 08:46.147\n小票機器人給排除在外的那你應該是以這樣子的一個條件跟規範來要求其他的售票網站也可以一起來做那如果說其他售票網站做不到的話是不是能夠請速發部這邊來協助技術的支援或是怎麼樣能夠提升把這個門檻整個加高而不是每一次這種售票的黃牛的這樣的一個行為都變成是消費者大家去承擔啊\n\n08:47.528 --> 08:47.788\n不是嗎?不是嗎?\n\n09:16.580 --> 09:28.696\n這個就是積極度與否來我覺得也請署長、次長這邊都要一起來瞭解因為剛剛其實我跟外媒領委員我們在台下當然這個是抓署長與並可是你的書面報告是講說你會積極的呼籲\n\n09:33.321 --> 09:56.808\n黃牛不要以身試法我們現在講說哇我們的政府機關到最後我們的做法結語是積極的跟黃牛喊話你們不要再來買黃牛票了還給消費者不對積極用錯方向如果說剛剛依照市長你的邏輯其實這一點也是我們認為應該要從根本下手如果售票網站它可以加強它的資安讓\n\n09:58.128 --> 10:15.182\n掃票機器人沒有辦法有作用的話那當然就可以還給一般普羅大眾大家就各憑本事我今天我開三個手機五個手機我去搶票至少我是真人我每個請兄弟姐妹爸爸媽媽幫忙一起搶我覺得這都還是情有可原因為我搶我是要為了我自己去看\n\n10:15.842 --> 10:34.279\n但是如果說有人用城市二月去掃票那他就是想要圖利想要盈利那你剛剛講說有些售票網站他做得比較好可以把掃票機器人給排除那我們就要應該去了解這個售票網站做得比較好他是投資了多少錢假設500萬就可以有這樣的一個掃票機器人給排除的話\n\n10:35.160 --> 11:02.171\n那講不客氣的我們就要求其他售票網站也要比照辦理否則你不應該在這整個公平的智慧平台公平的自由市場上你可能就會造成一個犯法的漏洞應該是有主管機關這邊要有一點不管是強制力也好不管是這個誘導也好不管是相對補助也好我覺得都應該來去做來提高這種少票機器人進入的門檻讓還給整個售票一般的自由大眾市場不是這樣子嗎\n\n11:02.731 --> 11:02.811\n市長,說實在話,市長\n\n11:25.134 --> 11:53.808\n我知道你今天很積極地搶話我希望你防堵黃牛的積極態度也跟在委員會備詢的時候積極搶話一樣積極就好最後我只提醒因為現在還有黃牛他們有變種就是不是只是賣票他們故意賣其他的部分賣麥克風一萬塊送兩張原價的演唱會票有沒有看到這種樣態有這也被我們當作一個有被有看到嘛那這種樣態能不能被檢舉\n\n11:55.461 --> 12:08.476\n如果說我明明賣一支筆一萬塊但是我送兩張原價票那罪翁之意不在酒他根本不是要賣這支筆他其實要賣那兩張票那兩張票就是變形的黃牛那這樣的一個樣態可以被檢舉我們有查獲這樣的一個狀況嗎目前\n\n12:14.342 --> 12:38.835\n這個部分還在查查我們還沒有特定的個案是可以看到是因為綁物的販售而被定罪的那這樣子是不是能夠找我們的這個法務部門也來演繹就說要提出指引給販售網站或者是說一些這個網購平台這樣的一個樣態其實也是符合我們的黃牛條款也是會有刑責的了解\n\n12:39.960 --> 12:45.607\n可以什麼時候能夠做到是不是開會討論可以一個月內提出\n\n12:46.932 --> 12:53.636\n請文化部召集相關單位一個月內針對這種變種黃牛的行為提出相關的指引辦法來要求業者不應該有這樣的一個變種黃牛的行為好謝謝謝謝謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.505,"end":14.849,"text":"主席謝謝麻煩請文化部次長、體育署署長跟我們數位發展部的代表好我們請三位代表謝謝"},{"start":20.361,"end":39.183,"text":"委員長來抱歉我先請教鄭署長好不好來鄭署長我先請教另外一個議題也是大家非常關注就是說體育署這邊關心這地方政府優化我們的一些球員場地那其中包括說職棒場地的部分那我們就看到是說最近有兩個場地被大家來做比較一個是桃園"},{"start":39.804,"end":40.204,"text":"蘇長有沒有注意到這個新聞?"},{"start":68.32,"end":92.525,"text":"報告委員我有打電話去請教那個運發局的局長是那單一事件他是回應說那個地方是他們懷疑應該是之前排水工程不小心遺落下來但是他們用整個金屬探測器去把全場去掃描過一遍應該是沒有其他的疑慮了但怎麼會有那麼離譜在一個球場裡面有L鐵條而且30公分"},{"start":93.444,"end":119.79,"text":"的一個L鐵條那還好是發現得早不是讓球員去發現不是在比賽途中發現不然很有可能就會造成我們的選手受傷我們的球員受傷那這樣的一個狀況球員工會這邊也講是說應該要再去做一個處理跟一個了解那現在是單一個案而已嗎目前是因為他們也後面也在中華子棒這邊聯盟的建議之下他們也是有整個金屬探測器整個掃過了"},{"start":121.01,"end":121.451,"text":"目前這個問題應該是後面不會產生的才對"},{"start":126.175,"end":153.072,"text":"但有沒有確認是說到底那個因為如果這樣的話因為本席都不禁懷疑是說這是不是之前就已經有留下來的一個鐵條那本席也看過之前我們體育署也有補助我們澄清湖棒球場來做這一些整建工程當然時間比較久這件不是體育署補助的因為我們最後一次補助澄清湖的案子是106年的時候2017年嘛 對不對所以說這一個案子不是體育署補助但是會這樣工程裡面發現球場裡面有這種鐵條其實是非常離譜的事情"},{"start":156.194,"end":173.733,"text":"這部分我們也是請運發局這邊特別要關注那個施工的品質而且到最後如果說這個施工品質有問題那尤其是驗收有沒有確認是說到有沒有人為疏失他們還在調查當中體育署能不能來要求我們地方政府這邊什麼時候來給我們體育署這邊做回報"},{"start":175.094,"end":198.563,"text":"報告委員因為這個案子畢竟不是我們補助的可能有困難但是我們還是會請他們說明我再來跟委辦這邊跟本委員報告我覺得重點在於是體育署身為我們中央主管機關尤其是各球場的部分因為本期看到沒有錯這個案子不是體育署補助但是高雄市政府在4月初也發一個新聞稿說要積極爭取體育署之後的球場補助"},{"start":201.224,"end":209.672,"text":"所以如果說用這樣的一個施工品質的話我真的很難想像說體育署如果補助更大筆的錢我們的施工品質要怎麼把關所以還是要請體育署這邊來確認說這有沒有人為疏失那以及後續的一個懲處好嗎好 謝謝來再來 次長"},{"start":219.497,"end":236.402,"text":"委員好確認一下說我們現在這個新法上任之後我們有總共裁罰那我們如果說真的有檢舉的這個黃牛的一個部分我們有提供相關獎金嗎有有有檢舉獎金那檢舉獎金目前發了多少費用檢舉獎金目前已經有48000多吧已經發出去還有5萬多還在持續幾筆我們檢舉獎金已經發了幾筆"},{"start":249.005,"end":267.41,"text":"有三件46840元是已經發了對另外還有14案還沒有發那因為這14案有一些狀況需要最後的確認包括有的可能是匿名有的是有訴願可能被撤回或者是有牽涉到一個其中有甚至有牽涉到恐嚇取材所以還沒有發出"},{"start":268.19,"end":291.186,"text":"但是這14件這三件已經確定的檢舉獎金都是有抓到這個相關的黃牛嗎?對不對?對對對是本案成立的情況下那體育署這邊剛本席有看到就是說你的這個報告裡面是有一件對不對?6000多塊所以本席講是說這相對來講也可以讓這個民眾來了解就是說現在我們是真的"},{"start":291.946,"end":292.286,"text":"李宗盛議員"},{"start":317.916,"end":346.998,"text":"市長有沒有注意到現在黃牛說擔心受黃牛票吃上刑責而竟然改賣假票來詐騙這個有沒有注意到這樣的一個新聞現在其實委員非常清楚這個狀況現在其實最困擾的不只是黃牛而是詐欺就它轉成詐騙所以我們也要提醒就是說現在購買黃牛票的風險會更高它不只是說你要有很高的代價更重要的是你可能根本沒有那張票"},{"start":347.799,"end":351.841,"text":"所以在這裡 詐欺的狀況讓行政長大局也有提高他們整個針對詐欺這一塊的偵查那也是黃牛票的這個類型裡面我們覺得現在的趨勢了是啊 但是本席真的很納悶就是說現在跟連同剛剛我們萬委員之間質詢的地方一樣"},{"start":366.767,"end":394.134,"text":"就是說我們已經在過去這一年裡面大家各部會都已經討論了非常多次包括說藝文票包括說體育票我們就希望是告訴大家正確的觀念以及我們要防堵這樣子的一個黃牛的一個文化惡行但沒想到黃牛現在好像反而變本加厲從原本賣黃牛票而已現在變成是改做詐騙犯那到底我們要去做的是立法院修法是要對付黃牛怎麼感覺反而是導致黃牛變成是詐騙集團"},{"start":396.077,"end":397.858,"text":"這會不會讓大家覺得好像我們越打越炸?"},{"start":425.216,"end":425.796,"text":"目前這兩家的中基還有在台灣嗎?"},{"start":454.918,"end":480.63,"text":"他們都在第一個是說他們有說不在台灣就是停止了公司解散那有一家是說他就改到國外去他不要做台灣的市場因為台灣有刑責的問題所以有刑責還是會有一定的嚇阻作用還是一般人我想應該是有一定有的那另外剛剛你有提到是說有一些售票網站相對來講是比較做得比較好有哪些售票網站是做比較好的"},{"start":481.204,"end":503.127,"text":"委員我再私下跟你說這不是私下不是因為會有市長本席因為現在在討論我覺得這很務實喔不是因為會有我現在講是說很多的售票網站不是市長我要釐清一個觀念今天並不是要探尋什麼商業機密或等等的部分而是售票網站有很多那你既然已經有提到是說有一些售票網站他做得比較好是確實有把"},{"start":504.028,"end":526.147,"text":"小票機器人給排除在外的那你應該是以這樣子的一個條件跟規範來要求其他的售票網站也可以一起來做那如果說其他售票網站做不到的話是不是能夠請速發部這邊來協助技術的支援或是怎麼樣能夠提升把這個門檻整個加高而不是每一次這種售票的黃牛的這樣的一個行為都變成是消費者大家去承擔啊"},{"start":527.528,"end":527.788,"text":"不是嗎?不是嗎?"},{"start":556.58,"end":568.696,"text":"這個就是積極度與否來 我覺得也請署長、次長這邊都要一起來瞭解因為剛剛其實我跟外媒領委員我們在台下當然這個是抓署長與並可是你的書面報告是講說你會積極的呼籲"},{"start":573.321,"end":596.808,"text":"黃牛不要以身試法我們現在講說哇我們的政府機關到最後我們的做法結語是積極的跟黃牛喊話你們不要再來買黃牛票了還給消費者不對積極用錯方向如果說剛剛依照市長你的邏輯其實這一點也是我們認為應該要從根本下手如果售票網站它可以加強它的資安讓"},{"start":598.128,"end":615.182,"text":"掃票機器人沒有辦法有作用的話那當然就可以還給一般普羅大眾大家就各憑本事我今天我開三個手機五個手機我去搶票至少我是真人我每個請兄弟姐妹爸爸媽媽幫忙一起搶我覺得這都還是情有可原因為我搶我是要為了我自己去看"},{"start":615.842,"end":634.279,"text":"但是如果說有人用城市二月去掃票那他就是想要圖利想要盈利那你剛剛講說有些售票網站他做得比較好可以把掃票機器人給排除那我們就要應該去了解這個售票網站做得比較好他是投資了多少錢假設500萬就可以有這樣的一個掃票機器人給排除的話"},{"start":635.16,"end":662.171,"text":"那講不客氣的我們就要求其他售票網站也要比照辦理否則你不應該在這整個公平的智慧平台公平的自由市場上你可能就會造成一個犯法的漏洞應該是有主管機關這邊要有一點不管是強制力也好不管是這個誘導也好不管是相對補助也好我覺得都應該來去做來提高這種少票機器人進入的門檻讓還給整個售票一般的自由大眾市場不是這樣子嗎"},{"start":662.731,"end":662.811,"text":"市長,說實在話,市長"},{"start":685.134,"end":713.808,"text":"我知道你今天很積極地搶話我希望你防堵黃牛的積極態度也跟在委員會備詢的時候積極搶話一樣積極就好最後我只提醒因為現在還有黃牛他們有變種就是不是只是賣票他們故意賣其他的部分賣麥克風一萬塊送兩張原價的演唱會票有沒有看到這種樣態有 這也被我們當作一個有被 有看到嘛那這種樣態能不能被檢舉"},{"start":715.461,"end":728.476,"text":"如果說我明明賣一支筆一萬塊但是我送兩張原價票那罪翁之意不在酒他根本不是要賣這支筆他其實要賣那兩張票那兩張票就是變形的黃牛那這樣的一個樣態可以被檢舉我們有查獲這樣的一個狀況嗎目前"},{"start":734.342,"end":758.835,"text":"這個部分還在查查我們還沒有特定的個案是可以看到是因為綁物的販售而被定罪的那這樣子是不是能夠找我們的這個法務部門也來演繹就說要提出指引給販售網站或者是說一些這個網購平台這樣的一個樣態其實也是符合我們的黃牛條款也是會有刑責的了解"},{"start":759.96,"end":765.607,"text":"可以什麼時候能夠做到是不是開會討論可以一個月內提出"},{"start":766.932,"end":773.636,"text":"請文化部召集相關單位一個月內針對這種變種黃牛的行為提出相關的指引辦法來要求業者不應該有這樣的一個變種黃牛的行為好 謝謝謝謝 謝謝"}]}}}}