{"id":151810,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151810","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e90f54132b1096e64a21fefd06c96acc12d28fff7690636534e2527b10508eee9d0dce7f622c2f575ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"莊瑞雄","委員發言時間":"09:36:09 - 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{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 638.737, \"end\": 638.837, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 638.837, \"end\": 638.857, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 638.857, \"end\": 638.877, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 638.877, \"end\": 638.897, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,149 --> 00:00:01,051\n謝謝主席,有請我們監察院李秘書長\n\n2\n00:00:18,298 --> 00:00:43,109\n莊委員好莫洋早我想今天我來接續剛前面幾個委員的一個答詢來救教你在我們整個憲法正修條文在第7條第5項規定監察委員必須去操作黨派以外依據法律來獨立行使職權所以我們監察委員的自立規範裡面就去講得很清楚你在行使職權的時候要操作黨派保持中立\n\n3\n00:00:44,049 --> 00:01:10,378\n這個都很合理啦憲法這樣的一個規定啊就是說你行使職權的時候你必須要去獨立行使這樣的職權跟黨派就無關了所以也就是說啊他憲法規範的意義是在講你當了監察委員以後擔任監委之後是你就必須要超脫黨派了要保持中立了那在整個啊整個監察委員的一個產生啊確實啊\n\n4\n00:01:12,559 --> 00:01:41,457\n總統來提名,總統提名完以後那也不是像剛剛秘書長講的愛誰就誰,這個現在誰哪有那個能耐也必須要經過立法院的最後的一個總統提名立法院同意同意,這個同意的過程裡面我相信在立法院裡面一定都有很多的一個大家來對他過去的一個經驗或者說哪一些不適任的地方來就教於整個被提名人\n\n5\n00:01:42,258 --> 00:01:44,264\n所以我本期今天有一個看法就是說這個歷史啊\n\n6\n00:01:47,750 --> 00:02:15,211\n這個實在是真的是一面鏡子啊你說過去張伯雅在當院長的時候啊那其實呢就是按照整個現在今天被提出來本院的委員的提案裡面呢第六款的部分啊你把它刪掉我想一想我如果是張伯雅我會覺得說欸我張伯雅就一直看去用貼面的啊我是怎樣張伯雅真的做得不好嗎你再去把它看看那個這個第一款的部分啊\n\n7\n00:02:16,032 --> 00:02:18,073\n王健宣是過去在當監察院院長是這麼不堪嗎?張柏亞過去在當監察院院長是這麼的不堪嗎?秘書長為什麼人家會針對這兩款產生的監察院院長來把你們想要把它修掉?這個你有沒有什麼感觸什麼看法呢?\n\n8\n00:02:39,316 --> 00:02:59,626\n我想監察院的強調是我們的委員的多元性所以我們希望讓總統提名或是立法院同意的時候我們的監察委員的組合會有比較多的多元性那刪掉第一款跟刪掉第六款會造成我們很大的影響我剛剛在報告的時候說明過了這會佔掉我們三成到四成之間的人數\n\n9\n00:03:00,826 --> 00:03:28,280\n所以這個限縮了總統提名權也限縮了我們的多元性我也不認為說總統就因為沒有這一些以後就找不到人我也不認為是說你這個把它刪掉到底合不合理到底合不合理我跟委員報告因為監察院是查公務員的違法實質那其實立法委員監督過政府所以他非常清楚所以立法委員轉任監委的其實都表現得不錯\n\n10\n00:03:29,804 --> 00:03:35,168\n監察委員不必負有那麼好像是那麼高的一個政治經驗,比如說一定要當過兩任議員,或者說曾經當過立委才可以來當監察委員,這個本席倒覺得可以討論,像這個部分倒覺得可以討論,但是也倒不是說當過議員或當過立法委員就說你這就是賣料的,你這就是不能做幹委,這個就顛覆一般民眾的一個想法,民眾的一個看法。\n\n11\n00:04:01,005 --> 00:04:25,283\n立法院也做得很好啊有給一個民意的一個經驗我倒覺得這個不一定是壞事啊重點是說你當了監委以後民眾要看的是這個倒不是說你以前還沒當監委以前你是在幹什麼你像比如說啊你說參與一些政治活動啊政治上現在YouTube很多的大網紅啊那些大網紅搞不好有一天\n\n12\n00:04:26,224 --> 00:04:26,604\n委員徐巧芯\n\n13\n00:04:48,735 --> 00:04:48,995\n李卓人議員\n\n14\n00:05:04,841 --> 00:05:06,162\n什麼監察委員什麼人出來參加的輔選其實當了監察委員以後給你李軍你現在貴為秘書長你叫你去人家輔選的時候你也淡淡你知道嗎我沒有輔選我進監察院以後就沒有輔選\n\n15\n00:05:22,453 --> 00:05:23,514\n所以這個是大家現在提這種案的時候你會發現看起來是合理但很多時務上都不可能發生\n\n16\n00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:40,720\n主席\n\n17\n00:05:55,854 --> 00:06:07,537\n本席倒是也持開放的一個態度但是在立法理由裡面說明裡面提到說參照公務人員任用法第28條對公務人員消極資格的一個認定這個我看起來就更奇怪了公務人員任用法第28條裡面去所談到的裡面\n\n18\n00:06:17,321 --> 00:06:42,279\n這一些來看本席來看的話很多可能對於其他監察委員整個公正執法的一個公正性來看的話有更高的標準其實我覺得是好事我覺得是好事但是呢那其實啊這個在監察院這一些自律規範裡面真的是不夠嗎或者是監察院自己的自律規範你們的監委是都不準時委嗎\n\n19\n00:06:43,519 --> 00:06:43,679\n委員會主席\n\n20\n00:07:01,957 --> 00:07:15,167\n可能你也稍微會知道左邊現的左邊現的就是說說到侯友宜的案件我們整個你們覺得他在4月24號約談的新北市市長\n\n21\n00:07:17,512 --> 00:07:33,767\n整個案子大家會看幾十年前的一個案子突然你們去起調查的時候正在藍軍比較有政治性的一個立場來看的話他當然會有所疑慮的按照監察院調查案子的方式裡面常常有一些委託調查的\n\n22\n00:07:35,248 --> 00:07:36,549\n1989年世界台灣同鄉會總幹事羅育士闖關遭到強制驅逐案\n\n23\n00:07:53,104 --> 00:08:22,120\n社會大眾可能會認為說會這樣幾十年前的事你現在是來衝這條會不會有大家覺得政治性或針對性太高的問題請你回答我說明一下這個自動調查案有兩位委員提出的自動調查案那他們主要的目的是要追求真相因為有人檢舉嘛所以他們要追求真相那其實這個送到懲戒法院即使我們彈劾成功送到懲戒法院懲戒法院也都不受理了因為已經超過追溯時期了會不會被\n\n24\n00:08:24,877 --> 00:08:42,924\n所以這兩位委員有新聞稿說明說他們認為真正重要的是追查真相不追查真相才是對不起國民其實本席也倒認為像這種著名的一個案件有時候去做一個追查倒也不是說監察院是過度的一個政治性就像你說的\n\n25\n00:08:44,404 --> 00:08:46,687\n這個案子35年,可是有更久的、社會大眾更期待的那個44宗的臨災血案。這部分\n\n26\n00:09:04,624 --> 00:09:25,035\n經過40幾年我相信倒也沒有什麼敏感性的問題了因為畢竟國民黨過去的一個威權體制底下幹的特務幹的這種慘絕人寰的事情民眾也不會覺得意外但只是說怎麼樣讓他浮現出來對社會有一個交代對受害者\n\n27\n00:09:25,896 --> 00:09:27,497\n這個部分我的了解是有受到部分阻礙\n\n28\n00:09:52,816 --> 00:09:57,864\n主藍喔?主愛喔?主愛喔?就是很多過去的資料沒有辦法再查到\n\n29\n00:09:59,079 --> 00:10:26,466\n可不可以簡單講一下,不然實在是你既然說就說一半,受到一些阻礙。這個部分現在還有我們的委員繼續在調查當中,那過去確實有很多資料檔案或是怎麼樣已經被銷毀了,所以還沒有完全查得清楚。銷毀喔?銷毀的部分是對整個案情有重大影響的嗎?這個部分我不便在這邊透露。\n\n30\n00:10:29,194 --> 00:10:38,897\n我是認為監察院這個地方反而要加把勁,35年前的案你就要調查案,44年前的案這有意願的調查啦有關的部分的政治證據確實現在有所困難,然後我們繼續在努力當中真的要努力啦好不好,好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n149\t1051\t謝謝主席,有請我們監察院李秘書長\n18298\t43109\t莊委員好莫洋早我想今天我來接續剛前面幾個委員的一個答詢來救教你在我們整個憲法正修條文在第7條第5項規定監察委員必須去操作黨派以外依據法律來獨立行使職權所以我們監察委員的自立規範裡面就去講得很清楚你在行使職權的時候要操作黨派保持中立\n44049\t70378\t這個都很合理啦憲法這樣的一個規定啊就是說你行使職權的時候你必須要去獨立行使這樣的職權跟黨派就無關了所以也就是說啊他憲法規範的意義是在講你當了監察委員以後擔任監委之後是你就必須要超脫黨派了要保持中立了那在整個啊整個監察委員的一個產生啊確實啊\n72559\t101457\t總統來提名,總統提名完以後那也不是像剛剛秘書長講的愛誰就誰,這個現在誰哪有那個能耐也必須要經過立法院的最後的一個總統提名立法院同意同意,這個同意的過程裡面我相信在立法院裡面一定都有很多的一個大家來對他過去的一個經驗或者說哪一些不適任的地方來就教於整個被提名人\n102258\t104264\t所以我本期今天有一個看法就是說這個歷史啊\n107750\t135211\t這個實在是真的是一面鏡子啊你說過去張伯雅在當院長的時候啊那其實呢就是按照整個現在今天被提出來本院的委員的提案裡面呢第六款的部分啊你把它刪掉我想一想我如果是張伯雅我會覺得說欸我張伯雅就一直看去用貼面的啊我是怎樣張伯雅真的做得不好嗎你再去把它看看那個這個第一款的部分啊\n136032\t138073\t王健宣是過去在當監察院院長是這麼不堪嗎?張柏亞過去在當監察院院長是這麼的不堪嗎?秘書長為什麼人家會針對這兩款產生的監察院院長來把你們想要把它修掉?這個你有沒有什麼感觸什麼看法呢?\n159316\t179626\t我想監察院的強調是我們的委員的多元性所以我們希望讓總統提名或是立法院同意的時候我們的監察委員的組合會有比較多的多元性那刪掉第一款跟刪掉第六款會造成我們很大的影響我剛剛在報告的時候說明過了這會佔掉我們三成到四成之間的人數\n180826\t208280\t所以這個限縮了總統提名權也限縮了我們的多元性我也不認為說總統就因為沒有這一些以後就找不到人我也不認為是說你這個把它刪掉到底合不合理到底合不合理我跟委員報告因為監察院是查公務員的違法實質那其實立法委員監督過政府所以他非常清楚所以立法委員轉任監委的其實都表現得不錯\n209804\t215168\t監察委員不必負有那麼好像是那麼高的一個政治經驗,比如說一定要當過兩任議員,或者說曾經當過立委才可以來當監察委員,這個本席倒覺得可以討論,像這個部分倒覺得可以討論,但是也倒不是說當過議員或當過立法委員就說你這就是賣料的,你這就是不能做幹委,這個就顛覆一般民眾的一個想法,民眾的一個看法。\n241005\t265283\t立法院也做得很好啊有給一個民意的一個經驗我倒覺得這個不一定是壞事啊重點是說你當了監委以後民眾要看的是這個倒不是說你以前還沒當監委以前你是在幹什麼你像比如說啊你說參與一些政治活動啊政治上現在YouTube很多的大網紅啊那些大網紅搞不好有一天\n266224\t266604\t委員徐巧芯\n288735\t288995\t李卓人議員\n304841\t306162\t什麼監察委員 什麼人出來參加的輔選其實當了監察委員以後 給你李軍你現在貴為秘書長你叫你去人家輔選的時候 你也淡淡你知道嗎我沒有輔選 我進監察院以後就沒有輔選\n322453\t323514\t所以這個是大家現在提這種案的時候你會發現看起來是合理但很多時務上都不可能發生\n340640\t340720\t主席\n355854\t367537\t本席倒是也持開放的一個態度但是在立法理由裡面說明裡面提到說參照公務人員任用法第28條對公務人員消極資格的一個認定這個我看起來就更奇怪了公務人員任用法第28條裡面去所談到的裡面\n377321\t402279\t這一些來看本席來看的話很多可能對於其他監察委員整個公正執法的一個公正性來看的話有更高的標準其實我覺得是好事我覺得是好事但是呢那其實啊這個在監察院這一些自律規範裡面真的是不夠嗎或者是監察院自己的自律規範你們的監委是都不準時委嗎\n403519\t403679\t委員會主席\n421957\t435167\t可能你也稍微會知道 左邊現的 左邊現的就是說說到侯友宜的案件我們整個 你們覺得他在4月24號約談的新北市市長\n437512\t453767\t整個案子大家會看幾十年前的一個案子突然你們去起調查的時候正在藍軍比較有政治性的一個立場來看的話他當然會有所疑慮的按照監察院調查案子的方式裡面常常有一些委託調查的\n455248\t456549\t1989年世界台灣同鄉會總幹事羅育士闖關遭到強制驅逐案\n473104\t502120\t社會大眾可能會認為說會這樣幾十年前的事你現在是來衝這條會不會有大家覺得政治性或針對性太高的問題請你回答我說明一下這個自動調查案有兩位委員提出的自動調查案那他們主要的目的是要追求真相因為有人檢舉嘛所以他們要追求真相那其實這個送到懲戒法院即使我們彈劾成功送到懲戒法院懲戒法院也都不受理了因為已經超過追溯時期了會不會被\n504877\t522924\t所以這兩位委員有新聞稿說明說他們認為真正重要的是追查真相不追查真相才是對不起國民其實本席也倒認為像這種著名的一個案件有時候去做一個追查倒也不是說監察院是過度的一個政治性就像你說的\n524404\t526687\t這個案子35年,可是有更久的、社會大眾更期待的那個44宗的臨災血案。這部分\n544624\t565035\t經過40幾年我相信倒也沒有什麼敏感性的問題了因為畢竟國民黨過去的一個威權體制底下幹的特務幹的這種慘絕人寰的事情民眾也不會覺得意外但只是說怎麼樣讓他浮現出來對社會有一個交代對受害者\n565896\t567497\t這個部分我的了解是有受到部分阻礙\n592816\t597864\t主藍喔?主愛喔?主愛喔?就是很多過去的資料沒有辦法再查到\n599079\t626466\t可不可以簡單講一下,不然實在是你既然說就說一半,受到一些阻礙。這個部分現在還有我們的委員繼續在調查當中,那過去確實有很多資料檔案或是怎麼樣已經被銷毀了,所以還沒有完全查得清楚。銷毀喔?銷毀的部分是對整個案情有重大影響的嗎?這個部分我不便在這邊透露。\n629194\t638897\t我是認為監察院這個地方反而要加把勁,35年前的案你就要調查案,44年前的案這有意願的調查啦有關的部分的政治證據確實現在有所困難,然後我們繼續在努力當中真的要努力啦好不好,好謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席,有請我們監察院李秘書長\n莊委員好莫洋早我想今天我來接續剛前面幾個委員的一個答詢來救教你在我們整個憲法正修條文在第7條第5項規定監察委員必須去操作黨派以外依據法律來獨立行使職權所以我們監察委員的自立規範裡面就去講得很清楚你在行使職權的時候要操作黨派保持中立\n這個都很合理啦憲法這樣的一個規定啊就是說你行使職權的時候你必須要去獨立行使這樣的職權跟黨派就無關了所以也就是說啊他憲法規範的意義是在講你當了監察委員以後擔任監委之後是你就必須要超脫黨派了要保持中立了那在整個啊整個監察委員的一個產生啊確實啊\n總統來提名,總統提名完以後那也不是像剛剛秘書長講的愛誰就誰,這個現在誰哪有那個能耐也必須要經過立法院的最後的一個總統提名立法院同意同意,這個同意的過程裡面我相信在立法院裡面一定都有很多的一個大家來對他過去的一個經驗或者說哪一些不適任的地方來就教於整個被提名人\n所以我本期今天有一個看法就是說這個歷史啊\n這個實在是真的是一面鏡子啊你說過去張伯雅在當院長的時候啊那其實呢就是按照整個現在今天被提出來本院的委員的提案裡面呢第六款的部分啊你把它刪掉我想一想我如果是張伯雅我會覺得說欸我張伯雅就一直看去用貼面的啊我是怎樣張伯雅真的做得不好嗎你再去把它看看那個這個第一款的部分啊\n王健宣是過去在當監察院院長是這麼不堪嗎?張柏亞過去在當監察院院長是這麼的不堪嗎?秘書長為什麼人家會針對這兩款產生的監察院院長來把你們想要把它修掉?這個你有沒有什麼感觸什麼看法呢?\n我想監察院的強調是我們的委員的多元性所以我們希望讓總統提名或是立法院同意的時候我們的監察委員的組合會有比較多的多元性那刪掉第一款跟刪掉第六款會造成我們很大的影響我剛剛在報告的時候說明過了這會佔掉我們三成到四成之間的人數\n所以這個限縮了總統提名權也限縮了我們的多元性我也不認為說總統就因為沒有這一些以後就找不到人我也不認為是說你這個把它刪掉到底合不合理到底合不合理我跟委員報告因為監察院是查公務員的違法實質那其實立法委員監督過政府所以他非常清楚所以立法委員轉任監委的其實都表現得不錯\n監察委員不必負有那麼好像是那麼高的一個政治經驗,比如說一定要當過兩任議員,或者說曾經當過立委才可以來當監察委員,這個本席倒覺得可以討論,像這個部分倒覺得可以討論,但是也倒不是說當過議員或當過立法委員就說你這就是賣料的,你這就是不能做幹委,這個就顛覆一般民眾的一個想法,民眾的一個看法。\n立法院也做得很好啊有給一個民意的一個經驗我倒覺得這個不一定是壞事啊重點是說你當了監委以後民眾要看的是這個倒不是說你以前還沒當監委以前你是在幹什麼你像比如說啊你說參與一些政治活動啊政治上現在YouTube很多的大網紅啊那些大網紅搞不好有一天\n委員徐巧芯\n李卓人議員\n什麼監察委員 什麼人出來參加的輔選其實當了監察委員以後 給你李軍你現在貴為秘書長你叫你去人家輔選的時候 你也淡淡你知道嗎我沒有輔選 我進監察院以後就沒有輔選\n所以這個是大家現在提這種案的時候你會發現看起來是合理但很多時務上都不可能發生\n主席\n本席倒是也持開放的一個態度但是在立法理由裡面說明裡面提到說參照公務人員任用法第28條對公務人員消極資格的一個認定這個我看起來就更奇怪了公務人員任用法第28條裡面去所談到的裡面\n這一些來看本席來看的話很多可能對於其他監察委員整個公正執法的一個公正性來看的話有更高的標準其實我覺得是好事我覺得是好事但是呢那其實啊這個在監察院這一些自律規範裡面真的是不夠嗎或者是監察院自己的自律規範你們的監委是都不準時委嗎\n委員會主席\n可能你也稍微會知道 左邊現的 左邊現的就是說說到侯友宜的案件我們整個 你們覺得他在4月24號約談的新北市市長\n整個案子大家會看幾十年前的一個案子突然你們去起調查的時候正在藍軍比較有政治性的一個立場來看的話他當然會有所疑慮的按照監察院調查案子的方式裡面常常有一些委託調查的\n1989年世界台灣同鄉會總幹事羅育士闖關遭到強制驅逐案\n社會大眾可能會認為說會這樣幾十年前的事你現在是來衝這條會不會有大家覺得政治性或針對性太高的問題請你回答我說明一下這個自動調查案有兩位委員提出的自動調查案那他們主要的目的是要追求真相因為有人檢舉嘛所以他們要追求真相那其實這個送到懲戒法院即使我們彈劾成功送到懲戒法院懲戒法院也都不受理了因為已經超過追溯時期了會不會被\n所以這兩位委員有新聞稿說明說他們認為真正重要的是追查真相不追查真相才是對不起國民其實本席也倒認為像這種著名的一個案件有時候去做一個追查倒也不是說監察院是過度的一個政治性就像你說的\n這個案子35年,可是有更久的、社會大眾更期待的那個44宗的臨災血案。這部分\n經過40幾年我相信倒也沒有什麼敏感性的問題了因為畢竟國民黨過去的一個威權體制底下幹的特務幹的這種慘絕人寰的事情民眾也不會覺得意外但只是說怎麼樣讓他浮現出來對社會有一個交代對受害者\n這個部分我的了解是有受到部分阻礙\n主藍喔?主愛喔?主愛喔?就是很多過去的資料沒有辦法再查到\n可不可以簡單講一下,不然實在是你既然說就說一半,受到一些阻礙。這個部分現在還有我們的委員繼續在調查當中,那過去確實有很多資料檔案或是怎麼樣已經被銷毀了,所以還沒有完全查得清楚。銷毀喔?銷毀的部分是對整個案情有重大影響的嗎?這個部分我不便在這邊透露。\n我是認為監察院這個地方反而要加把勁,35年前的案你就要調查案,44年前的案這有意願的調查啦有關的部分的政治證據確實現在有所困難,然後我們繼續在努力當中真的要努力啦好不好,好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.149 --> 00:01.051\n謝謝主席,有請我們監察院李秘書長\n\n00:18.298 --> 00:43.109\n莊委員好莫洋早我想今天我來接續剛前面幾個委員的一個答詢來救教你在我們整個憲法正修條文在第7條第5項規定監察委員必須去操作黨派以外依據法律來獨立行使職權所以我們監察委員的自立規範裡面就去講得很清楚你在行使職權的時候要操作黨派保持中立\n\n00:44.049 --> 01:10.378\n這個都很合理啦憲法這樣的一個規定啊就是說你行使職權的時候你必須要去獨立行使這樣的職權跟黨派就無關了所以也就是說啊他憲法規範的意義是在講你當了監察委員以後擔任監委之後是你就必須要超脫黨派了要保持中立了那在整個啊整個監察委員的一個產生啊確實啊\n\n01:12.559 --> 01:41.457\n總統來提名,總統提名完以後那也不是像剛剛秘書長講的愛誰就誰,這個現在誰哪有那個能耐也必須要經過立法院的最後的一個總統提名立法院同意同意,這個同意的過程裡面我相信在立法院裡面一定都有很多的一個大家來對他過去的一個經驗或者說哪一些不適任的地方來就教於整個被提名人\n\n01:42.258 --> 01:44.264\n所以我本期今天有一個看法就是說這個歷史啊\n\n01:47.750 --> 02:15.211\n這個實在是真的是一面鏡子啊你說過去張伯雅在當院長的時候啊那其實呢就是按照整個現在今天被提出來本院的委員的提案裡面呢第六款的部分啊你把它刪掉我想一想我如果是張伯雅我會覺得說欸我張伯雅就一直看去用貼面的啊我是怎樣張伯雅真的做得不好嗎你再去把它看看那個這個第一款的部分啊\n\n02:16.032 --> 02:18.073\n王健宣是過去在當監察院院長是這麼不堪嗎?張柏亞過去在當監察院院長是這麼的不堪嗎?秘書長為什麼人家會針對這兩款產生的監察院院長來把你們想要把它修掉?這個你有沒有什麼感觸什麼看法呢?\n\n02:39.316 --> 02:59.626\n我想監察院的強調是我們的委員的多元性所以我們希望讓總統提名或是立法院同意的時候我們的監察委員的組合會有比較多的多元性那刪掉第一款跟刪掉第六款會造成我們很大的影響我剛剛在報告的時候說明過了這會佔掉我們三成到四成之間的人數\n\n03:00.826 --> 03:28.280\n所以這個限縮了總統提名權也限縮了我們的多元性我也不認為說總統就因為沒有這一些以後就找不到人我也不認為是說你這個把它刪掉到底合不合理到底合不合理我跟委員報告因為監察院是查公務員的違法實質那其實立法委員監督過政府所以他非常清楚所以立法委員轉任監委的其實都表現得不錯\n\n03:29.804 --> 03:35.168\n監察委員不必負有那麼好像是那麼高的一個政治經驗,比如說一定要當過兩任議員,或者說曾經當過立委才可以來當監察委員,這個本席倒覺得可以討論,像這個部分倒覺得可以討論,但是也倒不是說當過議員或當過立法委員就說你這就是賣料的,你這就是不能做幹委,這個就顛覆一般民眾的一個想法,民眾的一個看法。\n\n04:01.005 --> 04:25.283\n立法院也做得很好啊有給一個民意的一個經驗我倒覺得這個不一定是壞事啊重點是說你當了監委以後民眾要看的是這個倒不是說你以前還沒當監委以前你是在幹什麼你像比如說啊你說參與一些政治活動啊政治上現在YouTube很多的大網紅啊那些大網紅搞不好有一天\n\n04:26.224 --> 04:26.604\n委員徐巧芯\n\n04:48.735 --> 04:48.995\n李卓人議員\n\n05:04.841 --> 05:06.162\n什麼監察委員什麼人出來參加的輔選其實當了監察委員以後給你李軍你現在貴為秘書長你叫你去人家輔選的時候你也淡淡你知道嗎我沒有輔選我進監察院以後就沒有輔選\n\n05:22.453 --> 05:23.514\n所以這個是大家現在提這種案的時候你會發現看起來是合理但很多時務上都不可能發生\n\n05:40.640 --> 05:40.720\n主席\n\n05:55.854 --> 06:07.537\n本席倒是也持開放的一個態度但是在立法理由裡面說明裡面提到說參照公務人員任用法第28條對公務人員消極資格的一個認定這個我看起來就更奇怪了公務人員任用法第28條裡面去所談到的裡面\n\n06:17.321 --> 06:42.279\n這一些來看本席來看的話很多可能對於其他監察委員整個公正執法的一個公正性來看的話有更高的標準其實我覺得是好事我覺得是好事但是呢那其實啊這個在監察院這一些自律規範裡面真的是不夠嗎或者是監察院自己的自律規範你們的監委是都不準時委嗎\n\n06:43.519 --> 06:43.679\n委員會主席\n\n07:01.957 --> 07:15.167\n可能你也稍微會知道左邊現的左邊現的就是說說到侯友宜的案件我們整個你們覺得他在4月24號約談的新北市市長\n\n07:17.512 --> 07:33.767\n整個案子大家會看幾十年前的一個案子突然你們去起調查的時候正在藍軍比較有政治性的一個立場來看的話他當然會有所疑慮的按照監察院調查案子的方式裡面常常有一些委託調查的\n\n07:35.248 --> 07:36.549\n1989年世界台灣同鄉會總幹事羅育士闖關遭到強制驅逐案\n\n07:53.104 --> 08:22.120\n社會大眾可能會認為說會這樣幾十年前的事你現在是來衝這條會不會有大家覺得政治性或針對性太高的問題請你回答我說明一下這個自動調查案有兩位委員提出的自動調查案那他們主要的目的是要追求真相因為有人檢舉嘛所以他們要追求真相那其實這個送到懲戒法院即使我們彈劾成功送到懲戒法院懲戒法院也都不受理了因為已經超過追溯時期了會不會被\n\n08:24.877 --> 08:42.924\n所以這兩位委員有新聞稿說明說他們認為真正重要的是追查真相不追查真相才是對不起國民其實本席也倒認為像這種著名的一個案件有時候去做一個追查倒也不是說監察院是過度的一個政治性就像你說的\n\n08:44.404 --> 08:46.687\n這個案子35年,可是有更久的、社會大眾更期待的那個44宗的臨災血案。這部分\n\n09:04.624 --> 09:25.035\n經過40幾年我相信倒也沒有什麼敏感性的問題了因為畢竟國民黨過去的一個威權體制底下幹的特務幹的這種慘絕人寰的事情民眾也不會覺得意外但只是說怎麼樣讓他浮現出來對社會有一個交代對受害者\n\n09:25.896 --> 09:27.497\n這個部分我的了解是有受到部分阻礙\n\n09:52.816 --> 09:57.864\n主藍喔?主愛喔?主愛喔?就是很多過去的資料沒有辦法再查到\n\n09:59.079 --> 10:26.466\n可不可以簡單講一下,不然實在是你既然說就說一半,受到一些阻礙。這個部分現在還有我們的委員繼續在調查當中,那過去確實有很多資料檔案或是怎麼樣已經被銷毀了,所以還沒有完全查得清楚。銷毀喔?銷毀的部分是對整個案情有重大影響的嗎?這個部分我不便在這邊透露。\n\n10:29.194 --> 10:38.897\n我是認為監察院這個地方反而要加把勁,35年前的案你就要調查案,44年前的案這有意願的調查啦有關的部分的政治證據確實現在有所困難,然後我們繼續在努力當中真的要努力啦好不好,好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.149,"end":1.051,"text":"謝謝主席,有請我們監察院李秘書長"},{"start":18.298,"end":43.109,"text":"莊委員好莫洋早我想今天我來接續剛前面幾個委員的一個答詢來救教你在我們整個憲法正修條文在第7條第5項規定監察委員必須去操作黨派以外依據法律來獨立行使職權所以我們監察委員的自立規範裡面就去講得很清楚你在行使職權的時候要操作黨派保持中立"},{"start":44.049,"end":70.378,"text":"這個都很合理啦憲法這樣的一個規定啊就是說你行使職權的時候你必須要去獨立行使這樣的職權跟黨派就無關了所以也就是說啊他憲法規範的意義是在講你當了監察委員以後擔任監委之後是你就必須要超脫黨派了要保持中立了那在整個啊整個監察委員的一個產生啊確實啊"},{"start":72.559,"end":101.457,"text":"總統來提名,總統提名完以後那也不是像剛剛秘書長講的愛誰就誰,這個現在誰哪有那個能耐也必須要經過立法院的最後的一個總統提名立法院同意同意,這個同意的過程裡面我相信在立法院裡面一定都有很多的一個大家來對他過去的一個經驗或者說哪一些不適任的地方來就教於整個被提名人"},{"start":102.258,"end":104.264,"text":"所以我本期今天有一個看法就是說這個歷史啊"},{"start":107.75,"end":135.211,"text":"這個實在是真的是一面鏡子啊你說過去張伯雅在當院長的時候啊那其實呢就是按照整個現在今天被提出來本院的委員的提案裡面呢第六款的部分啊你把它刪掉我想一想我如果是張伯雅我會覺得說欸我張伯雅就一直看去用貼面的啊我是怎樣張伯雅真的做得不好嗎你再去把它看看那個這個第一款的部分啊"},{"start":136.032,"end":138.073,"text":"王健宣是過去在當監察院院長是這麼不堪嗎?張柏亞過去在當監察院院長是這麼的不堪嗎?秘書長為什麼人家會針對這兩款產生的監察院院長來把你們想要把它修掉?這個你有沒有什麼感觸什麼看法呢?"},{"start":159.316,"end":179.626,"text":"我想監察院的強調是我們的委員的多元性所以我們希望讓總統提名或是立法院同意的時候我們的監察委員的組合會有比較多的多元性那刪掉第一款跟刪掉第六款會造成我們很大的影響我剛剛在報告的時候說明過了這會佔掉我們三成到四成之間的人數"},{"start":180.826,"end":208.28,"text":"所以這個限縮了總統提名權也限縮了我們的多元性我也不認為說總統就因為沒有這一些以後就找不到人我也不認為是說你這個把它刪掉到底合不合理到底合不合理我跟委員報告因為監察院是查公務員的違法實質那其實立法委員監督過政府所以他非常清楚所以立法委員轉任監委的其實都表現得不錯"},{"start":209.804,"end":215.168,"text":"監察委員不必負有那麼好像是那麼高的一個政治經驗,比如說一定要當過兩任議員,或者說曾經當過立委才可以來當監察委員,這個本席倒覺得可以討論,像這個部分倒覺得可以討論,但是也倒不是說當過議員或當過立法委員就說你這就是賣料的,你這就是不能做幹委,這個就顛覆一般民眾的一個想法,民眾的一個看法。"},{"start":241.005,"end":265.283,"text":"立法院也做得很好啊有給一個民意的一個經驗我倒覺得這個不一定是壞事啊重點是說你當了監委以後民眾要看的是這個倒不是說你以前還沒當監委以前你是在幹什麼你像比如說啊你說參與一些政治活動啊政治上現在YouTube很多的大網紅啊那些大網紅搞不好有一天"},{"start":266.224,"end":266.604,"text":"委員徐巧芯"},{"start":288.735,"end":288.995,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":304.841,"end":306.162,"text":"什麼監察委員 什麼人出來參加的輔選其實當了監察委員以後 給你李軍你現在貴為秘書長你叫你去人家輔選的時候 你也淡淡你知道嗎我沒有輔選 我進監察院以後就沒有輔選"},{"start":322.453,"end":323.514,"text":"所以這個是大家現在提這種案的時候你會發現看起來是合理但很多時務上都不可能發生"},{"start":340.64,"end":340.72,"text":"主席"},{"start":355.854,"end":367.537,"text":"本席倒是也持開放的一個態度但是在立法理由裡面說明裡面提到說參照公務人員任用法第28條對公務人員消極資格的一個認定這個我看起來就更奇怪了公務人員任用法第28條裡面去所談到的裡面"},{"start":377.321,"end":402.279,"text":"這一些來看本席來看的話很多可能對於其他監察委員整個公正執法的一個公正性來看的話有更高的標準其實我覺得是好事我覺得是好事但是呢那其實啊這個在監察院這一些自律規範裡面真的是不夠嗎或者是監察院自己的自律規範你們的監委是都不準時委嗎"},{"start":403.519,"end":403.679,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":421.957,"end":435.167,"text":"可能你也稍微會知道 左邊現的 左邊現的就是說說到侯友宜的案件我們整個 你們覺得他在4月24號約談的新北市市長"},{"start":437.512,"end":453.767,"text":"整個案子大家會看幾十年前的一個案子突然你們去起調查的時候正在藍軍比較有政治性的一個立場來看的話他當然會有所疑慮的按照監察院調查案子的方式裡面常常有一些委託調查的"},{"start":455.248,"end":456.549,"text":"1989年世界台灣同鄉會總幹事羅育士闖關遭到強制驅逐案"},{"start":473.104,"end":502.12,"text":"社會大眾可能會認為說會這樣幾十年前的事你現在是來衝這條會不會有大家覺得政治性或針對性太高的問題請你回答我說明一下這個自動調查案有兩位委員提出的自動調查案那他們主要的目的是要追求真相因為有人檢舉嘛所以他們要追求真相那其實這個送到懲戒法院即使我們彈劾成功送到懲戒法院懲戒法院也都不受理了因為已經超過追溯時期了會不會被"},{"start":504.877,"end":522.924,"text":"所以這兩位委員有新聞稿說明說他們認為真正重要的是追查真相不追查真相才是對不起國民其實本席也倒認為像這種著名的一個案件有時候去做一個追查倒也不是說監察院是過度的一個政治性就像你說的"},{"start":524.404,"end":526.687,"text":"這個案子35年,可是有更久的、社會大眾更期待的那個44宗的臨災血案。這部分"},{"start":544.624,"end":565.035,"text":"經過40幾年我相信倒也沒有什麼敏感性的問題了因為畢竟國民黨過去的一個威權體制底下幹的特務幹的這種慘絕人寰的事情民眾也不會覺得意外但只是說怎麼樣讓他浮現出來對社會有一個交代對受害者"},{"start":565.896,"end":567.497,"text":"這個部分我的了解是有受到部分阻礙"},{"start":592.816,"end":597.864,"text":"主藍喔?主愛喔?主愛喔?就是很多過去的資料沒有辦法再查到"},{"start":599.079,"end":626.466,"text":"可不可以簡單講一下,不然實在是你既然說就說一半,受到一些阻礙。這個部分現在還有我們的委員繼續在調查當中,那過去確實有很多資料檔案或是怎麼樣已經被銷毀了,所以還沒有完全查得清楚。銷毀喔?銷毀的部分是對整個案情有重大影響的嗎?這個部分我不便在這邊透露。"},{"start":629.194,"end":638.897,"text":"我是認為監察院這個地方反而要加把勁,35年前的案你就要調查案,44年前的案這有意願的調查啦有關的部分的政治證據確實現在有所困難,然後我們繼續在努力當中真的要努力啦好不好,好謝謝"}]}}}}