{"id":151811,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151811","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e90f54132b1096e6932559dd094a53a5054712d423581dcc34e2527b10508eee10497944ed0372c35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"09:38:59 - 09:49:29","影片長度":"00:10:30","會議時間":"2024-04-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請文化部、教育部、內政部、法務部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部及行政院主計總處列席就「表演及運動賽事黃牛票氾濫，相關單位取締、防範及執法成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢。（4月29日及5月2日二天一次會））","date":"2024-04-29","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-10"},"duration":630,"end_time":"2024-04-29T09:49:29+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-29T09:38:59+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":250,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（9時39分）先說一下，祝主席生日快樂，今天是主席的生日。"],["主席：通常到了這個年紀就不用再說生日快樂了，謝謝！"],["陳委員培瑜：依然是開心的事情。好，我們要進入正式的質詢，謝謝主席。有請文化部次長，還有金管會今天出席的同仁，謝謝。"],["主席：請次長，還有金管會哪位代表？劉萬基組長，是不是？好，謝謝。"],["王次長時思：委員好。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝次長、謝謝金管會的同仁。我們來看一下，在修法完之後，我知道文化部非常積極，文化部同仁跟地方縣市政府的警政同仁真的非常地辛苦，可是我們之前為了修體育的條例、體育黃牛票的事情，我們辦公室在1月先召開了一個協調會，我們想要知道以文化部的經驗，可以提供給體育署更多積極的建議，讓相關修法可以快速進入軌道。可是我們在開相關的會議，幫文化部發現一個很大的行政上困境跟瓶頸。我們來看一下，目前我們只知道黃牛的帳號，可是帳號對不到人民這件事情，我們發現是很大的困境，也因為這個裁罰並不屬於刑事的部分，所以我們就沒有辦法要求警政單位給予協助，以至於行政調查作業就卡在這邊。我們後來知道，就是投影片上顯示的，文化部其實有發了兩次的公文給金管會，可是金管會都拒絕提供相關的資料。次長，您知不知道您的同仁遇到這樣的困境？"],["王次長時思：當然，我們有再跟金管會進行協調跟瞭解。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，我們來看一下，我們上個禮拜也才召開相關的會議跟金管會做了討論，其實我們認為在金管會對銀行法相對保守的解釋底下，我們當然認同不要輕易地給出很多有隱密資料的可能性，可是我必須要承認，當時大家在立法的時候，並沒有討論到這一塊，也因為沒有相關的執行經驗，所以現在回過來看，難道銀行法真的沒有可能在這件事情上先有一些作為嗎？我們找到了第四十八條第二項第四款，其實有機會保留主管機關可以協助的但書，次長怎麼看這件事情？"],["王次長時思：跟委員說明，因為這是一個相對強力的立法，如果我們要用其他主管機關規定的情況來做的話，第一，它需要明文，也就是還得修一個法，讓這個法源有所依據才行。"],["陳委員培瑜：是。"],["王次長時思：這個法的效力當然相對是強大的，因為它在有條件的情況下，取得民眾最隱密、最重要的資料這個關鍵，所以……"],["陳委員培瑜：可是聽文化部同仁告訴我們，其實只要取得相關姓名就可以。我們來看一下……"],["王次長時思：就是人別，對。"],["陳委員培瑜：上個禮拜在會議當中，確實我們也跟金管會非常積極地討論，希望可否有機會用暫行辦法先提供文化部相關調查的可能性，讓很多事情不要卡在所謂行政裁罰，就沒有辦法積極往下走，因為如果是這樣，就會出現剛剛其他黨的立委所質詢的，好像看起來相關執行效率很差，可是我真的要為文化部同仁喊冤，如果在這個情況下，確實很多事情就沒有辦法往下，所以我可不可以積極地拜託次長，是不是可以跟金管會，甚至請行政院提出跨部會協商的需求，讓金管會用暫行辦法來提供文化部相關調查的可能性？"],["王次長時思：我想任何可以取得資料讓黃牛的案子順利進行的方法，我們都願意嘗試。"],["陳委員培瑜：好。另外，文化部跟教育部其實在修法之後，我相信開始執行也遇到很多問題，所以我也要求文化部跟教育部要儘速召開會議，還有沒有後續修法相關的建議，搭配上現在執行的困難，這個部分也請次長協助。"],["王次長時思：好。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝。接下來，我們要討論全中運，次長請回，謝謝。金管會請回。","有請體育署署長。署長早安！"],["鄭署長世忠：陳委員早。"],["陳委員培瑜：這次全中運我跟郭昱晴委員在開幕的時候到現場，在閉幕的時候我們也有過去。體育署是主辦單位，我們認為所有的賽事舉辦完之後，都必須要有很多討論跟調查，或者是檢討會議，以累積經驗，不然每次換到一個新的縣市，很多錯誤可能一再犯錯，對嗎？署長你認同嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，您講的沒有錯。不過這部分我們目前有兩個案子，分別給大專體總以及高中體總，針對所有的競賽規程、技術手冊及整個場布各方面……"],["陳委員培瑜：你知道我要講什麼，好，我們先往下看。但是有一個地方，署長一定沒有注意到，這次我去到閉幕現場，真的覺得非常不舒服的點，我真的誠心要說，禮賓人員全部都是中山女高的同學，身為臺灣第一位女性總統蔡英文總統，他就是中山女高畢業的，但是我們看到在閉幕會的現場，當然同學們非常積極、非常認真地付出，我們甚至也問了老師，可能只有志工服務時數，我們絕對要給予學生高度的肯定。可是我們發現體育署或者是主辦賽事的單位，對於禮賓人員的想像非常地封閉，甚至必須要說可能有一點父權，怎麼說呢？在2016年起，總統府在禮賓人員的選擇上就有不同的性別；甚至在2019年，當時是陳菊當秘書長，就讓女性的禮賓人員可以自由選擇服裝；可是我們看到在這一次體育署的主辦賽事裡面，在禮賓人員性別選擇上，甚至在衣服的選擇上，相對的還是封閉跟比較父權的思維。當然大家可能覺得看起來是小事，可是我必須要說，我們從總統府開始就已經做了示範，因為體育署會主辦全國非常非常多相關的賽事，是不是這個部分體育署應該更有一些想法？"],["鄭署長世忠：沒有問題，我們會把這部分列入未來的指引。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝署長。接下來，除了這個衣服之外，另外一個發生爭議的事情，我想署長一定非常清楚，這禮拜四就有臉書貼文，還有相關的新聞稿，體育署也說不會接受禁賽一年的處理，可是我要先問一下，體育署有跟當事人選手聯絡了嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：這部分我們是透過游泳界的在做一些指導，事實上，在幕後我們也是告訴這位教練、選手，他們其實是可以提出一些申訴跟一些聲音出來。"],["陳委員培瑜：所以你們其實並沒有直接跟選手聯絡？我們來看一下，署長，上一次我就問過關於滑冰選手拿國光獎章的事情，但這件事無涉獎金，我只是希望你們可以儘快跟選手及家長溝通。可是我們跟他們打聽了，到目前為止，你們都還沒跟他們溝通。我之前一直跟署長強調一件事，這些中學生運動選手的感受很重要，但從這次事情來看……我手上有份陳情書，如果署長要看的話會後可以給您。這是家長寫的陳情書，當中寫得非常清楚，他甚至翻了非常、非常多的法條，寫得非常完整。該名家長說，他可以接受孩子因為違規被取消這次參賽資格，可是他更心疼的是：孩子當場遇到的說法跟事後體育署、還有大會對外的說法，與他們在現場看到的事實非常不同！裁判長甚至還指責、指控孩子說謊，我覺得這部分爭議很大！署長，你自己身為父親，身為體育主管機關大家長，你一定對這件事情很有感受。"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，的確。但規則已經寫在那邊，至於競賽委員會在審查時的疏漏，這部分我們會改正。其實當下我們在幕後有指導，間接指導這一位家長教練來做這樣的事，其實我們是希望游泳協會這部分能進步，這也是為什麼我們會做……"],["陳委員培瑜：但主辦的還是體育署……"],["鄭署長世忠：是，沒有錯。"],["陳委員培瑜：我當然知道協會有其角色，相信署長也很清楚……"],["鄭署長世忠：所以我們才發了聲明，希望所有賽事都應該要改變觀念，這部分我們會去督促。"],["陳委員培瑜：因為時間有限，所以我快速跟署長溝通一下。我們要求裁判的第一優先是公立中正執行規則，而體育署作為主辦單位，更應該面對規則的罰則過於粗糙這件事。我們事後去看那個規則就知道，當中有非常多、甚至是很大模糊的空間，看起來似乎是為了保留給當場裁判的權限。目前看來卻造成很多爭議，讓現場很多家長與教練，還有選手非常痛苦。再來，面對爭議，我知道體育署有發新聞稿，署長也在自己臉書上寫了，但到底有沒有人在第一線、第一時間跟孩子溝通、跟選手溝通、跟家長溝通？"],["鄭署長世忠：有，溝通這部分有在進行，我們會再繼續改善。"],["陳委員培瑜：我相信署長剛剛說的，與運動相關的仲裁制度設計及完善的申訴救濟機制，讓整個事情能更制度化是署長所在意的，所以我們也希望後續體育署就這部分能再加強。"],["鄭署長世忠：是，沒有錯。"],["陳委員培瑜：可以再給我一點時間嗎？不好意思。我要講最後一件事，署長應該有看到這則禁藥新聞，對嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：我很清楚。"],["陳委員培瑜：好。我們當然知道手不能伸入與人事相關的事情裡，明明體育署每年都援助禁藥防制基金會上千萬，卻因為利益迴避問題而可能導致臺灣選手被禁賽，我想這點署長比我還清楚。我覺得這件事真的很不可思議，我知道體育界有體育界的慣例，目前我所聽到的消息，就如同剛剛署長所說的，有很多幕後消息說，這位老師會被力挺。我個人對人事沒有意見，但我考慮的是所有選手！這就如同署長自己在臉書上說的，所有教育及文化委員會的委員都在提醒您關注選手權益，站在維護選手權益上，我們是不是應該要正視這次事件與相關的人事風險，不要讓人情關係凌駕在選手權益之上？就禁藥防制與利益迴避這件事來說，我想體育署要有更多角色。再來，禁藥防制基金會目前設置的位置：桃園龜山文化一路兩百五十號，我故意把地址貼出來，我想署長應該非常熟悉。對與其相關的分工，體育署跟中華奧會應該要討論，維護其獨立性，避免瓜田李下，因為這一切都是為了選手權益。署長可不可以就這部分快速回應？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，這次事情其實我們還是有介入，基本上禁藥基金會屬於NADO，我跟他說，你們的專業其實在利益迴避上相關的法條都非常明確，如果你們自己對法條解讀不清，是不是應該直接向WADA釐清？所以不能說他們在檯面上有包庇，而是他們應該主動向WADA揭露，向WADA請教，看這樣的樣態是不是符合規定？如果不符合的話，當然該名組長就必須去職。這點不容懷疑。"],["陳委員培瑜：聽起來署長會積極處理這件事，以維護選手權益？"],["鄭署長世忠：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，以上，謝謝。"],["鄭署長世忠：謝謝委員。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝署長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員。接下來請葛如鈞委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":310,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-10","speakers":["柯志恩","萬美玲","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","葛如鈞","葉元之","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","范雲","張雅琳","吳春城","羅廷瑋","黃珊珊","黃捷","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","邱志偉","張啓楷","羅智強","林倩綺","林楚茵","劉建國"],"page_start":243,"meetingDate":["2024-04-29"],"gazette_id":"1133901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133901_00005"],"m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0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 595.127, \"end\": 595.147, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"態\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 616.098, \"end\": 616.138, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 616.138, \"end\": 616.218, \"score\": 0.741}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 616.218, \"end\": 616.238, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,174 --> 00:00:00,374\n主席主席\n\n2\n00:00:29,218 --> 00:00:56,205\n委員好,好,謝謝次長,謝謝金管會的同仁,我們來看一下在修法完之後,我知道文化部非常積極,然後其實文化部的同仁跟地方縣市政府的警政同仁,其實真的非常的辛苦可是呢,我們之前為了這個修體育的那個條例,體育的黃牛票的事情我們辦公室在1月的時候先召開了一個協調會,我們想要知道以文化部的經驗如何可以提供給體育署更多積極的建議,讓相關修法可以快速進入軌道\n\n3\n00:00:57,205 --> 00:01:17,589\n可是我們在開相關會一幫文化部發現了一個很大的行政上的困境跟瓶頸我們來看一下就是目前我們只知道黃牛的帳號可是帳號對不到人民這件事情呢其實我們發現是很大的困境可是也因為在這個裁罰上它並不屬於刑事的部分所以我們就沒有辦法去要求請證單位給予協助那以至於在行政調查所以就卡在這邊\n\n4\n00:01:21,590 --> 00:01:22,591\n當然,我們有再跟金管會再做協調跟了解\n\n5\n00:01:37,381 --> 00:01:41,544\n我們來看一下我們上個禮拜也才召開相關的會議跟金管會這邊做了討論其實我們認為金管會對銀行法相對保守的解釋底下我們當然認同不要輕易的給出很多有隱私資料的隱密資料的可能性可是因為我必須要承認當時大家在立法的時候並沒有討論到這一塊也因為沒有相關的執行經驗所以現在回過來看難道銀行法真的沒有可能\n\n6\n00:02:02,697 --> 00:02:13,027\n在這件事情上先有些作為嗎那我們找到了第48條第4款其實有機會保留主管機關可以協助的但書不知道次長您這邊您怎麼看這件事情\n\n7\n00:02:14,059 --> 00:02:14,319\n主席\n\n8\n00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:55,511\n可是我們聽文化部的同仁告訴我們其實只要取得相關姓名就可以了我們來看一下所以我們上禮拜在會議當中確實我們也跟這個金管會這邊有非常積極的討論希望可不可以有機會用暫行辦法先提供文化部相關調查的可能性\n\n9\n00:02:56,091 --> 00:03:22,873\n讓很多事情不要就卡在所謂行政財閥這邊就沒有辦法積極往下走因為如果是這樣就會出現剛剛其他黨的立委所質詢的好像看起來相關質詢效率很差可是我真的要為文化部的同仁喊冤喔如果在這個情況下確實很多事情就沒有辦法往下所以這邊我可不可以積極的拜託次長是不是可以跟金管會甚至請行政院這邊提出跨部會協商的需求讓金管會用暫行的辦法來提供文化部相關調查的可能性\n\n10\n00:03:23,581 --> 00:03:46,356\n我想任何可以取得資料可以協助讓這個黃牛的案子可以順利進行的方法我們都願意嘗試好那另外就是文化部跟教育部其實在修法之後我相信開始執行也遇到很多問題所以這邊我也要求文化部跟教育部要儘速召開還有沒有後續修法相關的建議搭配上現在執行的困難這個部分也請次長協助好好謝謝那下來我們要討論權中運那次長請回謝謝金管會這邊請回那有請署長謝謝庭運署署長\n\n11\n00:03:53,663 --> 00:04:01,972\n好署長早安這一次全中運我跟郭育群委員在開幕的時候到現場然後在閉幕的時候我們有過去可是對於這個體育組織主辦單位我們認為所有的賽事舉辦完之後都必須要很多討論跟調查或者是檢討會議累積經驗不然每一次換到一個新的縣市很多錯誤可能一再犯錯對嗎署長你認同嗎\n\n12\n00:04:14,184 --> 00:04:38,646\n報告委員您講的沒有錯不過這部分我們目前有兩個案子分別給導覽體總以及公眾體總針對所有的競賽規程、技術手冊還有整個操作各方面這個你知道我要講什麼嗎好那我們先往下看但是有一個署長你一定沒有注意到這是我去到閉幕現場我真的覺得非常不舒服的點我真的誠信要說禮賓人員全部都是中山女高的同學身為台灣第一位女性總統蔡英文總統她就是中山女高畢業的\n\n13\n00:04:39,306 --> 00:04:57,525\n但是我們看到在這個閉幕會的現場當然同學們非常積極、非常認真的付出然後我們縣市也問了老師可能只有志工服務時數我們絕對要給予學生高度的肯定可是我們發現體育署或者是主辦賽事的單位對於禮賓演員的想像非常的封閉甚至必須要說可能有一點賦權怎麼說呢\n\n14\n00:04:59,767 --> 00:05:05,011\n在2016年起總統府在禮賓人員的選擇上他就有不同的性別甚至在2019年當時是陳菊當秘書長的時候他就有讓女性的禮賓人員可以自由選擇服裝可是我們看到在這一次體育署的主辦賽事裡面相對的還是封閉跟比較父權的思維在禮賓人員性別選擇上甚至在衣服的選擇上當然大家可能覺得看起來是小事可是我必須要說我們從總統府開始就已經做了示範可是因為體育署會承辦全國非常非常多相關的賽事主辦\n\n15\n00:05:29,947 --> 00:05:30,447\n體育署有跟當事人選手聯絡嗎?\n\n16\n00:05:53,437 --> 00:06:08,563\n報告委員這部我們是透過游泳界的在做一些指導那事實上我們其實在幕後我們也是告訴這位教練選手他們其實是可以提出一些申訴跟一些聲音出來所以你們其實並沒有直接跟選手聯絡我們來看一下\n\n17\n00:06:10,424 --> 00:06:37,017\n其實署長如果你記得上一次我就跟您問過關於滑冰選手要拿那個國光獎章的事情無設獎金我也希望你們可以快速跟選手還有家長溝通可是我們到目前為止跟他們打聽了你們也都還沒有跟他們溝通我之前一直在跟署長強調一件事情就是孩子們這些中學生運動選手他們的感受我相信很重要可是以這一次事情來看我手上有一份陳情書如果署長你要看的話我等一下會後可以給您這是完整的家長\n\n18\n00:06:37,857 --> 00:06:58,823\n寫得非常非常清楚的陳情書他自己甚至翻了非常非常多的法條寫得非常完整我要說的是目前這個家長說他可以接受孩子因為違規被取消這一次參賽資格的狀況可是他更心疼的是孩子當場遇到的說法跟事後體育署還有大會對外的說法跟他們在現場看到的事實非常的不同甚至裁判長還指責\n\n19\n00:07:00,123 --> 00:07:00,764\n8位委員的確所以當然規則已經寫在那邊那是我們在競賽\n\n20\n00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:41,360\n委員會在當時在審查的時候的疏漏這部分我們會改正但其實當下我們在幕後是有指導間接的去指導這一位的加檔教練來做這樣的事情其實我們是希望能夠游泳協會能夠在這部分能夠儘速的去進步但是因為主辦還是體育署我當然知道協會有他的角色我相信組長我們都很清楚所以我後面才發一個聲明就是希望所有的賽事都應該要去改變他們的觀念那這部分我們會去督促\n\n21\n00:07:41,860 --> 00:08:05,275\n好因為時間有限我是不是可以快速跟署長溝通一下目前我們希望要求裁判第一優先應該是公立中正執行規則而體育署作為主辦單位更應該要面對規則的罰則過於粗糙因為我們來看我們自己後來事後去看那個規則有非常多很大模糊的空間似乎看起來是為了保留給當場的裁判一個權限可是看起來我覺得目前造成很多爭議這件事情我覺得非常讓很多現場的家長跟教練還有選手非常的痛苦\n\n22\n00:08:09,718 --> 00:08:34,456\n面對爭議這件事情我知道體育署有發新聞稿署長你自己臉書有寫了可是到底有沒有在有人在第一線第一時間跟孩子溝通跟選手溝通跟家人溝通在高中體總的部分有在進行那再來就是我相信就是署長您剛剛說的相關的運動仲裁相關制度設計還有完善申訴救濟的機制這件事情我相信署長也會是您所在意的就是讓整個事情更制度化這件事情所以我們也希望後續體育署網這個部分再加強\n\n23\n00:08:35,897 --> 00:09:02,687\n可以再給我一點時間嗎?好不好意思好最後最後我要講最後一件事情我想這個禁藥新聞署長你應該有看到對嗎?我很清楚好那我們當然知道首不能深入相關的人士可是明明體育署每年都援助這個禁藥防治基金會上千萬可是因為利益防弊的問題它很有可能就導致台灣的選手被禁賽我想署長你比我都還要清楚可是我覺得這件事情真的很不可思議當然我知道體育界有體育界的慣例目前我所聽到的\n\n24\n00:09:03,747 --> 00:09:18,557\n消息就是如同你剛署長說很多幕後的消息說相關這位老師他即將他會被力挺我個人對人事我沒有意見可是我要考慮到所有選手就如同署長您自己在臉書上說的所有的教育文化委員會的委員都在提醒您關注選手權益這件事情\n\n25\n00:09:19,718 --> 00:09:20,118\n主席主席主席主席\n\n26\n00:09:47,543 --> 00:09:55,147\n這次其實我們還是有一介入啦那我基本上我們跟他所謂的我們進教基金會這邊屬於我們的NATO我們剛剛說你們的專業其實在利益迴避上有相關的法條都很非常的明確那如果你們法條上自己解讀不清是不是應該直接向WADA來做一個釐清所以他們其實沒有報應該不能說檯面上的包庇而是他們就主動向WADA來揭露來跟WADA請教這樣的樣態\n\n27\n00:10:16,098 --> 00:10:16,238\n主席陳委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n174\t374\t主席主席\n29218\t56205\t委員好,好,謝謝次長,謝謝金管會的同仁,我們來看一下在修法完之後,我知道文化部非常積極,然後其實文化部的同仁跟地方縣市政府的警政同仁,其實真的非常的辛苦可是呢,我們之前為了這個修體育的那個條例,體育的黃牛票的事情我們辦公室在1月的時候先召開了一個協調會,我們想要知道以文化部的經驗如何可以提供給體育署更多積極的建議,讓相關修法可以快速進入軌道\n57205\t77589\t可是我們在開相關會一幫文化部發現了一個很大的行政上的困境跟瓶頸我們來看一下就是目前我們只知道黃牛的帳號可是帳號對不到人民這件事情呢其實我們發現是很大的困境可是也因為在這個裁罰上它並不屬於刑事的部分所以我們就沒有辦法去要求請證單位給予協助那以至於在行政調查所以就卡在這邊\n81590\t82591\t當然,我們有再跟金管會再做協調跟了解\n97381\t101544\t我們來看一下我們上個禮拜也才召開相關的會議跟金管會這邊做了討論其實我們認為金管會對銀行法相對保守的解釋底下我們當然認同不要輕易的給出很多有隱私資料的隱密資料的可能性可是因為我必須要承認當時大家在立法的時候並沒有討論到這一塊也因為沒有相關的執行經驗所以現在回過來看難道銀行法真的沒有可能\n122697\t133027\t在這件事情上先有些作為嗎那我們找到了第48條第4款其實有機會保留主管機關可以協助的但書不知道次長您這邊您怎麼看這件事情\n134059\t134319\t主席\n160720\t175511\t可是我們聽文化部的同仁告訴我們其實只要取得相關姓名就可以了我們來看一下所以我們上禮拜在會議當中確實我們也跟這個金管會這邊有非常積極的討論希望可不可以有機會用暫行辦法先提供文化部相關調查的可能性\n176091\t202873\t讓很多事情不要就卡在所謂行政財閥這邊就沒有辦法積極往下走因為如果是這樣就會出現剛剛其他黨的立委所質詢的好像看起來相關質詢效率很差可是我真的要為文化部的同仁喊冤喔如果在這個情況下確實很多事情就沒有辦法往下所以這邊我可不可以積極的拜託次長是不是可以跟金管會甚至請行政院這邊提出跨部會協商的需求讓金管會用暫行的辦法來提供文化部相關調查的可能性\n203581\t226356\t我想任何可以取得資料可以協助讓這個黃牛的案子可以順利進行的方法我們都願意嘗試好那另外就是文化部跟教育部其實在修法之後我相信開始執行也遇到很多問題所以這邊我也要求文化部跟教育部要儘速召開還有沒有後續修法相關的建議搭配上現在執行的困難這個部分也請次長協助好好謝謝那下來我們要討論權中運那次長請回謝謝金管會這邊請回那有請署長謝謝庭運署署長\n233663\t241972\t好 署長 早安這一次全中運我跟郭育群委員在開幕的時候到現場然後在閉幕的時候我們有過去可是對於這個體育組織主辦單位我們認為所有的賽事舉辦完之後都必須要很多討論跟調查或者是檢討會議累積經驗不然每一次換到一個新的縣市很多錯誤可能一再犯錯 對嗎 署長你認同嗎\n254184\t278646\t報告委員您講的沒有錯不過這部分我們目前有兩個案子分別給導覽體總以及公眾體總針對所有的競賽規程、技術手冊還有整個操作各方面這個你知道我要講什麼嗎好那我們先往下看但是有一個署長你一定沒有注意到這是我去到閉幕現場我真的覺得非常不舒服的點我真的誠信要說禮賓人員全部都是中山女高的同學身為台灣第一位女性總統蔡英文總統她就是中山女高畢業的\n279306\t297525\t但是我們看到在這個閉幕會的現場當然同學們非常積極、非常認真的付出然後我們縣市也問了老師可能只有志工服務時數我們絕對要給予學生高度的肯定可是我們發現體育署或者是主辦賽事的單位對於禮賓演員的想像非常的封閉甚至必須要說可能有一點賦權怎麼說呢\n299767\t305011\t在2016年起總統府在禮賓人員的選擇上他就有不同的性別甚至在2019年當時是陳菊當秘書長的時候他就有讓女性的禮賓人員可以自由選擇服裝可是我們看到在這一次體育署的主辦賽事裡面相對的還是封閉跟比較父權的思維在禮賓人員性別選擇上甚至在衣服的選擇上當然大家可能覺得看起來是小事可是我必須要說我們從總統府開始就已經做了示範可是因為體育署會承辦全國非常非常多相關的賽事主辦\n329947\t330447\t體育署有跟當事人選手聯絡嗎?\n353437\t368563\t報告委員這部我們是透過游泳界的在做一些指導那事實上我們其實在幕後我們也是告訴這位教練選手他們其實是可以提出一些申訴跟一些聲音出來所以你們其實並沒有直接跟選手聯絡我們來看一下\n370424\t397017\t其實署長如果你記得上一次我就跟您問過關於滑冰選手要拿那個國光獎章的事情無設獎金我也希望你們可以快速跟選手還有家長溝通可是我們到目前為止跟他們打聽了你們也都還沒有跟他們溝通我之前一直在跟署長強調一件事情就是孩子們這些中學生運動選手他們的感受我相信很重要可是以這一次事情來看我手上有一份陳情書如果署長你要看的話我等一下會後可以給您這是完整的家長\n397857\t418823\t寫得非常非常清楚的陳情書他自己甚至翻了非常非常多的法條寫得非常完整我要說的是目前這個家長說他可以接受孩子因為違規被取消這一次參賽資格的狀況可是他更心疼的是孩子當場遇到的說法跟事後體育署還有大會對外的說法跟他們在現場看到的事實非常的不同甚至裁判長還指責\n420123\t420764\t8位委員的確所以當然規則已經寫在那邊那是我們在競賽\n435720\t461360\t委員會在當時在審查的時候的疏漏這部分我們會改正但其實當下我們在幕後是有指導間接的去指導這一位的加檔教練來做這樣的事情其實我們是希望能夠游泳協會能夠在這部分能夠儘速的去進步但是因為主辦還是體育署我當然知道協會有他的角色我相信組長我們都很清楚所以我後面才發一個聲明就是希望所有的賽事都應該要去改變他們的觀念那這部分我們會去督促\n461860\t485275\t好 因為時間有限我是不是可以快速跟署長溝通一下目前我們希望要求裁判第一優先應該是公立中正執行規則而體育署作為主辦單位更應該要面對規則的罰則過於粗糙因為我們來看我們自己後來事後去看那個規則有非常多很大模糊的空間似乎看起來是為了保留給當場的裁判一個權限可是看起來我覺得目前造成很多爭議這件事情我覺得非常讓很多現場的家長跟教練還有選手非常的痛苦\n489718\t514456\t面對爭議這件事情我知道體育署有發新聞稿署長你自己臉書有寫了可是到底有沒有在有人在第一線第一時間跟孩子溝通跟選手溝通跟家人溝通在高中體總的部分有在進行那再來就是我相信就是署長您剛剛說的相關的運動仲裁相關制度設計還有完善申訴救濟的機制這件事情我相信署長也會是您所在意的就是讓整個事情更制度化這件事情所以我們也希望後續體育署網這個部分再加強\n515897\t542687\t可以再給我一點時間嗎?好不好意思好最後最後我要講最後一件事情我想這個禁藥新聞署長你應該有看到對嗎?我很清楚好那我們當然知道首不能深入相關的人士可是明明體育署每年都援助這個禁藥防治基金會上千萬可是因為利益防弊的問題它很有可能就導致台灣的選手被禁賽我想署長你比我都還要清楚可是我覺得這件事情真的很不可思議當然我知道體育界有體育界的慣例目前我所聽到的\n543747\t558557\t消息就是如同你剛署長說很多幕後的消息說相關這位老師他即將他會被力挺我個人對人事我沒有意見可是我要考慮到所有選手就如同署長您自己在臉書上說的所有的教育文化委員會的委員都在提醒您關注選手權益這件事情\n559718\t560118\t主席主席主席主席\n587543\t595147\t這次其實我們還是有一介入啦那我基本上我們跟他所謂的我們進教基金會這邊屬於我們的NATO我們剛剛說你們的專業其實在利益迴避上有相關的法條都很非常的明確那如果你們法條上自己解讀不清是不是應該直接向WADA來做一個釐清所以他們其實沒有報應該不能說檯面上的包庇而是他們就主動向WADA來揭露來跟WADA請教這樣的樣態\n616098\t616238\t主席陳委員\n","txt":"主席主席\n委員好,好,謝謝次長,謝謝金管會的同仁,我們來看一下在修法完之後,我知道文化部非常積極,然後其實文化部的同仁跟地方縣市政府的警政同仁,其實真的非常的辛苦可是呢,我們之前為了這個修體育的那個條例,體育的黃牛票的事情我們辦公室在1月的時候先召開了一個協調會,我們想要知道以文化部的經驗如何可以提供給體育署更多積極的建議,讓相關修法可以快速進入軌道\n可是我們在開相關會一幫文化部發現了一個很大的行政上的困境跟瓶頸我們來看一下就是目前我們只知道黃牛的帳號可是帳號對不到人民這件事情呢其實我們發現是很大的困境可是也因為在這個裁罰上它並不屬於刑事的部分所以我們就沒有辦法去要求請證單位給予協助那以至於在行政調查所以就卡在這邊\n當然,我們有再跟金管會再做協調跟了解\n我們來看一下我們上個禮拜也才召開相關的會議跟金管會這邊做了討論其實我們認為金管會對銀行法相對保守的解釋底下我們當然認同不要輕易的給出很多有隱私資料的隱密資料的可能性可是因為我必須要承認當時大家在立法的時候並沒有討論到這一塊也因為沒有相關的執行經驗所以現在回過來看難道銀行法真的沒有可能\n在這件事情上先有些作為嗎那我們找到了第48條第4款其實有機會保留主管機關可以協助的但書不知道次長您這邊您怎麼看這件事情\n主席\n可是我們聽文化部的同仁告訴我們其實只要取得相關姓名就可以了我們來看一下所以我們上禮拜在會議當中確實我們也跟這個金管會這邊有非常積極的討論希望可不可以有機會用暫行辦法先提供文化部相關調查的可能性\n讓很多事情不要就卡在所謂行政財閥這邊就沒有辦法積極往下走因為如果是這樣就會出現剛剛其他黨的立委所質詢的好像看起來相關質詢效率很差可是我真的要為文化部的同仁喊冤喔如果在這個情況下確實很多事情就沒有辦法往下所以這邊我可不可以積極的拜託次長是不是可以跟金管會甚至請行政院這邊提出跨部會協商的需求讓金管會用暫行的辦法來提供文化部相關調查的可能性\n我想任何可以取得資料可以協助讓這個黃牛的案子可以順利進行的方法我們都願意嘗試好那另外就是文化部跟教育部其實在修法之後我相信開始執行也遇到很多問題所以這邊我也要求文化部跟教育部要儘速召開還有沒有後續修法相關的建議搭配上現在執行的困難這個部分也請次長協助好好謝謝那下來我們要討論權中運那次長請回謝謝金管會這邊請回那有請署長謝謝庭運署署長\n好 署長 早安這一次全中運我跟郭育群委員在開幕的時候到現場然後在閉幕的時候我們有過去可是對於這個體育組織主辦單位我們認為所有的賽事舉辦完之後都必須要很多討論跟調查或者是檢討會議累積經驗不然每一次換到一個新的縣市很多錯誤可能一再犯錯 對嗎 署長你認同嗎\n報告委員您講的沒有錯不過這部分我們目前有兩個案子分別給導覽體總以及公眾體總針對所有的競賽規程、技術手冊還有整個操作各方面這個你知道我要講什麼嗎好那我們先往下看但是有一個署長你一定沒有注意到這是我去到閉幕現場我真的覺得非常不舒服的點我真的誠信要說禮賓人員全部都是中山女高的同學身為台灣第一位女性總統蔡英文總統她就是中山女高畢業的\n但是我們看到在這個閉幕會的現場當然同學們非常積極、非常認真的付出然後我們縣市也問了老師可能只有志工服務時數我們絕對要給予學生高度的肯定可是我們發現體育署或者是主辦賽事的單位對於禮賓演員的想像非常的封閉甚至必須要說可能有一點賦權怎麼說呢\n在2016年起總統府在禮賓人員的選擇上他就有不同的性別甚至在2019年當時是陳菊當秘書長的時候他就有讓女性的禮賓人員可以自由選擇服裝可是我們看到在這一次體育署的主辦賽事裡面相對的還是封閉跟比較父權的思維在禮賓人員性別選擇上甚至在衣服的選擇上當然大家可能覺得看起來是小事可是我必須要說我們從總統府開始就已經做了示範可是因為體育署會承辦全國非常非常多相關的賽事主辦\n體育署有跟當事人選手聯絡嗎?\n報告委員這部我們是透過游泳界的在做一些指導那事實上我們其實在幕後我們也是告訴這位教練選手他們其實是可以提出一些申訴跟一些聲音出來所以你們其實並沒有直接跟選手聯絡我們來看一下\n其實署長如果你記得上一次我就跟您問過關於滑冰選手要拿那個國光獎章的事情無設獎金我也希望你們可以快速跟選手還有家長溝通可是我們到目前為止跟他們打聽了你們也都還沒有跟他們溝通我之前一直在跟署長強調一件事情就是孩子們這些中學生運動選手他們的感受我相信很重要可是以這一次事情來看我手上有一份陳情書如果署長你要看的話我等一下會後可以給您這是完整的家長\n寫得非常非常清楚的陳情書他自己甚至翻了非常非常多的法條寫得非常完整我要說的是目前這個家長說他可以接受孩子因為違規被取消這一次參賽資格的狀況可是他更心疼的是孩子當場遇到的說法跟事後體育署還有大會對外的說法跟他們在現場看到的事實非常的不同甚至裁判長還指責\n8位委員的確所以當然規則已經寫在那邊那是我們在競賽\n委員會在當時在審查的時候的疏漏這部分我們會改正但其實當下我們在幕後是有指導間接的去指導這一位的加檔教練來做這樣的事情其實我們是希望能夠游泳協會能夠在這部分能夠儘速的去進步但是因為主辦還是體育署我當然知道協會有他的角色我相信組長我們都很清楚所以我後面才發一個聲明就是希望所有的賽事都應該要去改變他們的觀念那這部分我們會去督促\n好 因為時間有限我是不是可以快速跟署長溝通一下目前我們希望要求裁判第一優先應該是公立中正執行規則而體育署作為主辦單位更應該要面對規則的罰則過於粗糙因為我們來看我們自己後來事後去看那個規則有非常多很大模糊的空間似乎看起來是為了保留給當場的裁判一個權限可是看起來我覺得目前造成很多爭議這件事情我覺得非常讓很多現場的家長跟教練還有選手非常的痛苦\n面對爭議這件事情我知道體育署有發新聞稿署長你自己臉書有寫了可是到底有沒有在有人在第一線第一時間跟孩子溝通跟選手溝通跟家人溝通在高中體總的部分有在進行那再來就是我相信就是署長您剛剛說的相關的運動仲裁相關制度設計還有完善申訴救濟的機制這件事情我相信署長也會是您所在意的就是讓整個事情更制度化這件事情所以我們也希望後續體育署網這個部分再加強\n可以再給我一點時間嗎?好不好意思好最後最後我要講最後一件事情我想這個禁藥新聞署長你應該有看到對嗎?我很清楚好那我們當然知道首不能深入相關的人士可是明明體育署每年都援助這個禁藥防治基金會上千萬可是因為利益防弊的問題它很有可能就導致台灣的選手被禁賽我想署長你比我都還要清楚可是我覺得這件事情真的很不可思議當然我知道體育界有體育界的慣例目前我所聽到的\n消息就是如同你剛署長說很多幕後的消息說相關這位老師他即將他會被力挺我個人對人事我沒有意見可是我要考慮到所有選手就如同署長您自己在臉書上說的所有的教育文化委員會的委員都在提醒您關注選手權益這件事情\n主席主席主席主席\n這次其實我們還是有一介入啦那我基本上我們跟他所謂的我們進教基金會這邊屬於我們的NATO我們剛剛說你們的專業其實在利益迴避上有相關的法條都很非常的明確那如果你們法條上自己解讀不清是不是應該直接向WADA來做一個釐清所以他們其實沒有報應該不能說檯面上的包庇而是他們就主動向WADA來揭露來跟WADA請教這樣的樣態\n主席陳委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.174 --> 00:00.374\n主席主席\n\n00:29.218 --> 00:56.205\n委員好,好,謝謝次長,謝謝金管會的同仁,我們來看一下在修法完之後,我知道文化部非常積極,然後其實文化部的同仁跟地方縣市政府的警政同仁,其實真的非常的辛苦可是呢,我們之前為了這個修體育的那個條例,體育的黃牛票的事情我們辦公室在1月的時候先召開了一個協調會,我們想要知道以文化部的經驗如何可以提供給體育署更多積極的建議,讓相關修法可以快速進入軌道\n\n00:57.205 --> 01:17.589\n可是我們在開相關會一幫文化部發現了一個很大的行政上的困境跟瓶頸我們來看一下就是目前我們只知道黃牛的帳號可是帳號對不到人民這件事情呢其實我們發現是很大的困境可是也因為在這個裁罰上它並不屬於刑事的部分所以我們就沒有辦法去要求請證單位給予協助那以至於在行政調查所以就卡在這邊\n\n01:21.590 --> 01:22.591\n當然,我們有再跟金管會再做協調跟了解\n\n01:37.381 --> 01:41.544\n我們來看一下我們上個禮拜也才召開相關的會議跟金管會這邊做了討論其實我們認為金管會對銀行法相對保守的解釋底下我們當然認同不要輕易的給出很多有隱私資料的隱密資料的可能性可是因為我必須要承認當時大家在立法的時候並沒有討論到這一塊也因為沒有相關的執行經驗所以現在回過來看難道銀行法真的沒有可能\n\n02:02.697 --> 02:13.027\n在這件事情上先有些作為嗎那我們找到了第48條第4款其實有機會保留主管機關可以協助的但書不知道次長您這邊您怎麼看這件事情\n\n02:14.059 --> 02:14.319\n主席\n\n02:40.720 --> 02:55.511\n可是我們聽文化部的同仁告訴我們其實只要取得相關姓名就可以了我們來看一下所以我們上禮拜在會議當中確實我們也跟這個金管會這邊有非常積極的討論希望可不可以有機會用暫行辦法先提供文化部相關調查的可能性\n\n02:56.091 --> 03:22.873\n讓很多事情不要就卡在所謂行政財閥這邊就沒有辦法積極往下走因為如果是這樣就會出現剛剛其他黨的立委所質詢的好像看起來相關質詢效率很差可是我真的要為文化部的同仁喊冤喔如果在這個情況下確實很多事情就沒有辦法往下所以這邊我可不可以積極的拜託次長是不是可以跟金管會甚至請行政院這邊提出跨部會協商的需求讓金管會用暫行的辦法來提供文化部相關調查的可能性\n\n03:23.581 --> 03:46.356\n我想任何可以取得資料可以協助讓這個黃牛的案子可以順利進行的方法我們都願意嘗試好那另外就是文化部跟教育部其實在修法之後我相信開始執行也遇到很多問題所以這邊我也要求文化部跟教育部要儘速召開還有沒有後續修法相關的建議搭配上現在執行的困難這個部分也請次長協助好好謝謝那下來我們要討論權中運那次長請回謝謝金管會這邊請回那有請署長謝謝庭運署署長\n\n03:53.663 --> 04:01.972\n好署長早安這一次全中運我跟郭育群委員在開幕的時候到現場然後在閉幕的時候我們有過去可是對於這個體育組織主辦單位我們認為所有的賽事舉辦完之後都必須要很多討論跟調查或者是檢討會議累積經驗不然每一次換到一個新的縣市很多錯誤可能一再犯錯對嗎署長你認同嗎\n\n04:14.184 --> 04:38.646\n報告委員您講的沒有錯不過這部分我們目前有兩個案子分別給導覽體總以及公眾體總針對所有的競賽規程、技術手冊還有整個操作各方面這個你知道我要講什麼嗎好那我們先往下看但是有一個署長你一定沒有注意到這是我去到閉幕現場我真的覺得非常不舒服的點我真的誠信要說禮賓人員全部都是中山女高的同學身為台灣第一位女性總統蔡英文總統她就是中山女高畢業的\n\n04:39.306 --> 04:57.525\n但是我們看到在這個閉幕會的現場當然同學們非常積極、非常認真的付出然後我們縣市也問了老師可能只有志工服務時數我們絕對要給予學生高度的肯定可是我們發現體育署或者是主辦賽事的單位對於禮賓演員的想像非常的封閉甚至必須要說可能有一點賦權怎麼說呢\n\n04:59.767 --> 05:05.011\n在2016年起總統府在禮賓人員的選擇上他就有不同的性別甚至在2019年當時是陳菊當秘書長的時候他就有讓女性的禮賓人員可以自由選擇服裝可是我們看到在這一次體育署的主辦賽事裡面相對的還是封閉跟比較父權的思維在禮賓人員性別選擇上甚至在衣服的選擇上當然大家可能覺得看起來是小事可是我必須要說我們從總統府開始就已經做了示範可是因為體育署會承辦全國非常非常多相關的賽事主辦\n\n05:29.947 --> 05:30.447\n體育署有跟當事人選手聯絡嗎?\n\n05:53.437 --> 06:08.563\n報告委員這部我們是透過游泳界的在做一些指導那事實上我們其實在幕後我們也是告訴這位教練選手他們其實是可以提出一些申訴跟一些聲音出來所以你們其實並沒有直接跟選手聯絡我們來看一下\n\n06:10.424 --> 06:37.017\n其實署長如果你記得上一次我就跟您問過關於滑冰選手要拿那個國光獎章的事情無設獎金我也希望你們可以快速跟選手還有家長溝通可是我們到目前為止跟他們打聽了你們也都還沒有跟他們溝通我之前一直在跟署長強調一件事情就是孩子們這些中學生運動選手他們的感受我相信很重要可是以這一次事情來看我手上有一份陳情書如果署長你要看的話我等一下會後可以給您這是完整的家長\n\n06:37.857 --> 06:58.823\n寫得非常非常清楚的陳情書他自己甚至翻了非常非常多的法條寫得非常完整我要說的是目前這個家長說他可以接受孩子因為違規被取消這一次參賽資格的狀況可是他更心疼的是孩子當場遇到的說法跟事後體育署還有大會對外的說法跟他們在現場看到的事實非常的不同甚至裁判長還指責\n\n07:00.123 --> 07:00.764\n8位委員的確所以當然規則已經寫在那邊那是我們在競賽\n\n07:15.720 --> 07:41.360\n委員會在當時在審查的時候的疏漏這部分我們會改正但其實當下我們在幕後是有指導間接的去指導這一位的加檔教練來做這樣的事情其實我們是希望能夠游泳協會能夠在這部分能夠儘速的去進步但是因為主辦還是體育署我當然知道協會有他的角色我相信組長我們都很清楚所以我後面才發一個聲明就是希望所有的賽事都應該要去改變他們的觀念那這部分我們會去督促\n\n07:41.860 --> 08:05.275\n好因為時間有限我是不是可以快速跟署長溝通一下目前我們希望要求裁判第一優先應該是公立中正執行規則而體育署作為主辦單位更應該要面對規則的罰則過於粗糙因為我們來看我們自己後來事後去看那個規則有非常多很大模糊的空間似乎看起來是為了保留給當場的裁判一個權限可是看起來我覺得目前造成很多爭議這件事情我覺得非常讓很多現場的家長跟教練還有選手非常的痛苦\n\n08:09.718 --> 08:34.456\n面對爭議這件事情我知道體育署有發新聞稿署長你自己臉書有寫了可是到底有沒有在有人在第一線第一時間跟孩子溝通跟選手溝通跟家人溝通在高中體總的部分有在進行那再來就是我相信就是署長您剛剛說的相關的運動仲裁相關制度設計還有完善申訴救濟的機制這件事情我相信署長也會是您所在意的就是讓整個事情更制度化這件事情所以我們也希望後續體育署網這個部分再加強\n\n08:35.897 --> 09:02.687\n可以再給我一點時間嗎?好不好意思好最後最後我要講最後一件事情我想這個禁藥新聞署長你應該有看到對嗎?我很清楚好那我們當然知道首不能深入相關的人士可是明明體育署每年都援助這個禁藥防治基金會上千萬可是因為利益防弊的問題它很有可能就導致台灣的選手被禁賽我想署長你比我都還要清楚可是我覺得這件事情真的很不可思議當然我知道體育界有體育界的慣例目前我所聽到的\n\n09:03.747 --> 09:18.557\n消息就是如同你剛署長說很多幕後的消息說相關這位老師他即將他會被力挺我個人對人事我沒有意見可是我要考慮到所有選手就如同署長您自己在臉書上說的所有的教育文化委員會的委員都在提醒您關注選手權益這件事情\n\n09:19.718 --> 09:20.118\n主席主席主席主席\n\n09:47.543 --> 09:55.147\n這次其實我們還是有一介入啦那我基本上我們跟他所謂的我們進教基金會這邊屬於我們的NATO我們剛剛說你們的專業其實在利益迴避上有相關的法條都很非常的明確那如果你們法條上自己解讀不清是不是應該直接向WADA來做一個釐清所以他們其實沒有報應該不能說檯面上的包庇而是他們就主動向WADA來揭露來跟WADA請教這樣的樣態\n\n10:16.098 --> 10:16.238\n主席陳委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.174,"end":0.374,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":29.218,"end":56.205,"text":"委員好,好,謝謝次長,謝謝金管會的同仁,我們來看一下在修法完之後,我知道文化部非常積極,然後其實文化部的同仁跟地方縣市政府的警政同仁,其實真的非常的辛苦可是呢,我們之前為了這個修體育的那個條例,體育的黃牛票的事情我們辦公室在1月的時候先召開了一個協調會,我們想要知道以文化部的經驗如何可以提供給體育署更多積極的建議,讓相關修法可以快速進入軌道"},{"start":57.205,"end":77.589,"text":"可是我們在開相關會一幫文化部發現了一個很大的行政上的困境跟瓶頸我們來看一下就是目前我們只知道黃牛的帳號可是帳號對不到人民這件事情呢其實我們發現是很大的困境可是也因為在這個裁罰上它並不屬於刑事的部分所以我們就沒有辦法去要求請證單位給予協助那以至於在行政調查所以就卡在這邊"},{"start":81.59,"end":82.591,"text":"當然,我們有再跟金管會再做協調跟了解"},{"start":97.381,"end":101.544,"text":"我們來看一下我們上個禮拜也才召開相關的會議跟金管會這邊做了討論其實我們認為金管會對銀行法相對保守的解釋底下我們當然認同不要輕易的給出很多有隱私資料的隱密資料的可能性可是因為我必須要承認當時大家在立法的時候並沒有討論到這一塊也因為沒有相關的執行經驗所以現在回過來看難道銀行法真的沒有可能"},{"start":122.697,"end":133.027,"text":"在這件事情上先有些作為嗎那我們找到了第48條第4款其實有機會保留主管機關可以協助的但書不知道次長您這邊您怎麼看這件事情"},{"start":134.059,"end":134.319,"text":"主席"},{"start":160.72,"end":175.511,"text":"可是我們聽文化部的同仁告訴我們其實只要取得相關姓名就可以了我們來看一下所以我們上禮拜在會議當中確實我們也跟這個金管會這邊有非常積極的討論希望可不可以有機會用暫行辦法先提供文化部相關調查的可能性"},{"start":176.091,"end":202.873,"text":"讓很多事情不要就卡在所謂行政財閥這邊就沒有辦法積極往下走因為如果是這樣就會出現剛剛其他黨的立委所質詢的好像看起來相關質詢效率很差可是我真的要為文化部的同仁喊冤喔如果在這個情況下確實很多事情就沒有辦法往下所以這邊我可不可以積極的拜託次長是不是可以跟金管會甚至請行政院這邊提出跨部會協商的需求讓金管會用暫行的辦法來提供文化部相關調查的可能性"},{"start":203.581,"end":226.356,"text":"我想任何可以取得資料可以協助讓這個黃牛的案子可以順利進行的方法我們都願意嘗試好那另外就是文化部跟教育部其實在修法之後我相信開始執行也遇到很多問題所以這邊我也要求文化部跟教育部要儘速召開還有沒有後續修法相關的建議搭配上現在執行的困難這個部分也請次長協助好好謝謝那下來我們要討論權中運那次長請回謝謝金管會這邊請回那有請署長謝謝庭運署署長"},{"start":233.663,"end":241.972,"text":"好 署長 早安這一次全中運我跟郭育群委員在開幕的時候到現場然後在閉幕的時候我們有過去可是對於這個體育組織主辦單位我們認為所有的賽事舉辦完之後都必須要很多討論跟調查或者是檢討會議累積經驗不然每一次換到一個新的縣市很多錯誤可能一再犯錯 對嗎 署長你認同嗎"},{"start":254.184,"end":278.646,"text":"報告委員您講的沒有錯不過這部分我們目前有兩個案子分別給導覽體總以及公眾體總針對所有的競賽規程、技術手冊還有整個操作各方面這個你知道我要講什麼嗎好那我們先往下看但是有一個署長你一定沒有注意到這是我去到閉幕現場我真的覺得非常不舒服的點我真的誠信要說禮賓人員全部都是中山女高的同學身為台灣第一位女性總統蔡英文總統她就是中山女高畢業的"},{"start":279.306,"end":297.525,"text":"但是我們看到在這個閉幕會的現場當然同學們非常積極、非常認真的付出然後我們縣市也問了老師可能只有志工服務時數我們絕對要給予學生高度的肯定可是我們發現體育署或者是主辦賽事的單位對於禮賓演員的想像非常的封閉甚至必須要說可能有一點賦權怎麼說呢"},{"start":299.767,"end":305.011,"text":"在2016年起總統府在禮賓人員的選擇上他就有不同的性別甚至在2019年當時是陳菊當秘書長的時候他就有讓女性的禮賓人員可以自由選擇服裝可是我們看到在這一次體育署的主辦賽事裡面相對的還是封閉跟比較父權的思維在禮賓人員性別選擇上甚至在衣服的選擇上當然大家可能覺得看起來是小事可是我必須要說我們從總統府開始就已經做了示範可是因為體育署會承辦全國非常非常多相關的賽事主辦"},{"start":329.947,"end":330.447,"text":"體育署有跟當事人選手聯絡嗎?"},{"start":353.437,"end":368.563,"text":"報告委員這部我們是透過游泳界的在做一些指導那事實上我們其實在幕後我們也是告訴這位教練選手他們其實是可以提出一些申訴跟一些聲音出來所以你們其實並沒有直接跟選手聯絡我們來看一下"},{"start":370.424,"end":397.017,"text":"其實署長如果你記得上一次我就跟您問過關於滑冰選手要拿那個國光獎章的事情無設獎金我也希望你們可以快速跟選手還有家長溝通可是我們到目前為止跟他們打聽了你們也都還沒有跟他們溝通我之前一直在跟署長強調一件事情就是孩子們這些中學生運動選手他們的感受我相信很重要可是以這一次事情來看我手上有一份陳情書如果署長你要看的話我等一下會後可以給您這是完整的家長"},{"start":397.857,"end":418.823,"text":"寫得非常非常清楚的陳情書他自己甚至翻了非常非常多的法條寫得非常完整我要說的是目前這個家長說他可以接受孩子因為違規被取消這一次參賽資格的狀況可是他更心疼的是孩子當場遇到的說法跟事後體育署還有大會對外的說法跟他們在現場看到的事實非常的不同甚至裁判長還指責"},{"start":420.123,"end":420.764,"text":"8位委員的確所以當然規則已經寫在那邊那是我們在競賽"},{"start":435.72,"end":461.36,"text":"委員會在當時在審查的時候的疏漏這部分我們會改正但其實當下我們在幕後是有指導間接的去指導這一位的加檔教練來做這樣的事情其實我們是希望能夠游泳協會能夠在這部分能夠儘速的去進步但是因為主辦還是體育署我當然知道協會有他的角色我相信組長我們都很清楚所以我後面才發一個聲明就是希望所有的賽事都應該要去改變他們的觀念那這部分我們會去督促"},{"start":461.86,"end":485.275,"text":"好 因為時間有限我是不是可以快速跟署長溝通一下目前我們希望要求裁判第一優先應該是公立中正執行規則而體育署作為主辦單位更應該要面對規則的罰則過於粗糙因為我們來看我們自己後來事後去看那個規則有非常多很大模糊的空間似乎看起來是為了保留給當場的裁判一個權限可是看起來我覺得目前造成很多爭議這件事情我覺得非常讓很多現場的家長跟教練還有選手非常的痛苦"},{"start":489.718,"end":514.456,"text":"面對爭議這件事情我知道體育署有發新聞稿署長你自己臉書有寫了可是到底有沒有在有人在第一線第一時間跟孩子溝通跟選手溝通跟家人溝通在高中體總的部分有在進行那再來就是我相信就是署長您剛剛說的相關的運動仲裁相關制度設計還有完善申訴救濟的機制這件事情我相信署長也會是您所在意的就是讓整個事情更制度化這件事情所以我們也希望後續體育署網這個部分再加強"},{"start":515.897,"end":542.687,"text":"可以再給我一點時間嗎?好不好意思好最後最後我要講最後一件事情我想這個禁藥新聞署長你應該有看到對嗎?我很清楚好那我們當然知道首不能深入相關的人士可是明明體育署每年都援助這個禁藥防治基金會上千萬可是因為利益防弊的問題它很有可能就導致台灣的選手被禁賽我想署長你比我都還要清楚可是我覺得這件事情真的很不可思議當然我知道體育界有體育界的慣例目前我所聽到的"},{"start":543.747,"end":558.557,"text":"消息就是如同你剛署長說很多幕後的消息說相關這位老師他即將他會被力挺我個人對人事我沒有意見可是我要考慮到所有選手就如同署長您自己在臉書上說的所有的教育文化委員會的委員都在提醒您關注選手權益這件事情"},{"start":559.718,"end":560.118,"text":"主席主席主席主席"},{"start":587.543,"end":595.147,"text":"這次其實我們還是有一介入啦那我基本上我們跟他所謂的我們進教基金會這邊屬於我們的NATO我們剛剛說你們的專業其實在利益迴避上有相關的法條都很非常的明確那如果你們法條上自己解讀不清是不是應該直接向WADA來做一個釐清所以他們其實沒有報應該不能說檯面上的包庇而是他們就主動向WADA來揭露來跟WADA請教這樣的樣態"},{"start":616.098,"end":616.238,"text":"主席陳委員"}]}}}}