{"id":151818,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151818","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e90f54132b1096e620fb95a2f6ac1cb012d28fff7690636534e2527b10508eee10bd954f519c80315ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳俊宇","委員發言時間":"09:57:11 - 10:06:07","影片長度":"00:08:56","會議時間":"2024-04-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：審查委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「監察院組織法第三條之一及第三條之二條文修正草案」案。）","date":"2024-04-29","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":18,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-18"},"duration":536,"end_time":"2024-04-29T10:06:07+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-29T09:57:11+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":390,"blocks":[["陳委員俊宇：（9時57分）謝謝主席，我們有請李秘書長，秘書長早。"],["李秘書長俊俋：陳委員早。"],["陳委員俊宇：秘書長，我們今天要審查的是有關監察院組織法第三條之一及第三條之二的相關修正草案，也就是針對有關擔任監察委員的資格條件。根據憲法增修條文第七條第二項所定，監察院設置29位監委，其中一位為院長，另外一位為副院長，任期6年，由總統提名，經立法院同意任命之。也就是說，監察委員的提名是總統在憲政上的權責，立法院在行使人事同意權之後，便會再基於五權分立這個架構下去進行。","針對我們今天看到國民黨所提出要刪除第三條之一中的第一款，也就是王建院長條款，以及第六款的張博雅院長條款的草案，我想到底是在檢視這兩位院長過去擔任院長時的資格問題？還是對於這兩位院長過去的表現好不好的一個檢視？我想有沒有符合社會期待還是相關的議題，應該是要回歸正面的方向來思考。我們從監察院所提供的書面報告裡面可以看到，近三屆監察委員當中，適用這兩個條款加起來的可能就占三成以上，剛剛秘書長也大概回復了。"],["李秘書長俊俋：對。"],["陳委員俊宇：就秘書長您自己的觀察來看，適用這兩款資格的監委相較於其他委員，在工作上是否具有比較特別的優勢？比方說，他們在政治上的豐富經驗，可能會更有利於職權的行使，您的看法呢？"],["李秘書長俊俋：我跟陳委員報告，監察院重要的是委員組成的多元性，所以我們會有一至七款這樣積極條件的限制，其實最重要的是多元性，你剛剛提到的比如說擔任過立委，我們認為他對政府的運作相當熟悉，所以轉任監委以後，沒有銜接上的問題，他可以很快進入狀況。"],["陳委員俊宇：是。"],["李秘書長俊俋：我們是有發現這樣的現象。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，在這個過程裡面，我們也看到有學者提出可以參考考試院的修法經驗，明定單一政黨委員不能超過總委員數的二分之一，秘書長之前也身為立法委員，不僅參與過考試院組織修法過程，也曾對監察院組織法提出類似的構想，那我想就教秘書長，以你現在作為監察院秘書長來看，你認為適不適合參考考試院的經驗，以避免被提名人立場單一的可能？"],["李秘書長俊俋：我們現在單一黨籍並沒有超過二分之一，甚至連三分之一都沒有，是不是有必要在組織法增加這一條，我沒有意見，我們尊重大院的決定。"],["陳委員俊宇：好。另外，新增第三條之二有關消極資格的限制，雖然立意是希望監委能夠超脫黨派，憲法增修條文第七條第五項也規定，監察委員須超出黨派以外，依據法律獨立行使職權。即監察委員在任期中應保持公正、中立，不受任何干涉。不過，修正的條文中，對於資格所設定的「十年內有加入政黨或參與任何政治活動者」的限制，尤其是其中這個參與任何政治活動，並沒有一個明確的界定，不論是時間的長度還是範圍的廣度，在實務上是否有難以查證的現象？"],["李秘書長俊俋：兩個部分跟委員報告，第一，在剛剛跟莊瑞雄委員的對談中也有提到這件事，監察院重要的是在擔任監委以後，不得參加政治活動，而在擔任監委之前，那本來就是人民的集會結社自由。第二，增訂第三條之二，我們認為有困難，為什麼有困難？第一點，十年內參加政黨，這個我們還可以查，但是有沒有參加過政治活動，政治活動的定義到底是什麼？範疇到哪裡？比如我去參加反核遊行，算不算政治活動？我去參加反滲透法的遊行，算不算政治活動？如果這個沒有明確定義的話，我們在執行上會有相當的困難。"],["陳委員俊宇：對，如果要溯及既往，而政治活動又沒有明確定義，去助選、輔選，還有剛剛秘書長提到的參加反核活動，算不算？"],["李秘書長俊俋：助選、輔選，這個在監察院的自律規範裡都有嚴格的禁止。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，如果參照行政中立法第五條第一項的規定，公務人員得加入政黨或其他政治團體，但不得兼任政黨或其他政治團體的職務。公務員可以加入政黨，但監委在被提名前十年都不能有黨籍，秘書長認為對於政治活動的界定，適合參酌監察院的自律規範，這樣的規定是否限縮到總統的提名權？"],["李秘書長俊俋：我認為會限縮到總統的提名權，而且一個人沒有辦法預測他十年以後會不會擔任監委……"],["陳委員俊宇：是。"],["李秘書長俊俋：會不會被提名，所以老實講，這個部分在實際的執行上一定會有困難。"],["陳委員俊宇：我想民眾期待我們所組成的監察院，是可以超然公正，由德高望重的人士來伸張正義，我相信這是所有民眾所期待的，所以在修法上，還是要尊重憲法賦予總統提名的權責，在合理的情況之下，我們來討論監委提名的問題，我想這樣才是符合民眾的期待。"],["李秘書長俊俋：重點是提名權跟同意權，所以不要限縮總統的權限，立委可以在同意權上表示同意或不同意。"],["陳委員俊宇：好。接下來我再就教秘書長有關兒少性剝削的相關議題。兒少性剝削案件層出不窮，而貴院的人權會在本月10日曾發出新聞稿，呼籲政府能夠正視兒少性影像犯罪的問題，恰好今天衛環和本委員會聯席審查兒童及少年性剝削防制條例修正草案，顯見社會各界對於兒少性剝削以及私密影像的杜絕相當重視。目前國內不分朝野亟欲共同解決這個問題，我想請教秘書長，貴院的人權會如何在兒少性剝削相關議題上發揮最大的功能，又如何建議政府採取相關的措施來保障兒少的人權？"],["李秘書長俊俋：我跟陳委員報告，我們的人權會目前正在針對這個議題進行系統性調查，調查完以後，會提出我們的建議，預計在今年年底會提出這個部分。"],["陳委員俊宇：年底會有一個結果報告？"],["李秘書長俊俋：年中，年中。"],["陳委員俊宇：對於這個議題，我們還是期待監察院人權會能夠有更多的著力點，尤其人權會的委員們大多是相關議題的專門研究或貢獻者，算是專家……"],["李秘書長俊俋：他們現在是符合第七款。"],["陳委員俊宇：對，希望能夠盡最大的力量落實兒少人權的保障，不管在修法、政策的倡議，或是提出建議，期待在監院及所有主管的帶領之下，能夠各司其職，讓我們一起來努力，趕快把這個問題解決。"],["李秘書長俊俋：我相信我們人權會會提出適當的建議。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，謝謝秘書長。"],["李秘書長俊俋：謝謝。"],["主席：接下來請羅智強委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":386,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-18","speakers":["吳宗憲","徐巧芯","黃國昌","沈發惠","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","陳俊宇","羅智強","林思銘","黃建賓","牛煦庭","吳思瑤","柯建銘","傅崐萁","翁曉玲","王鴻薇"],"page_start":335,"meetingDate":["2024-04-29"],"gazette_id":"1133501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133501_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「監察院組織法第三條之一及第三條之二條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133501_00017"}},"transcript":{"id":"151818","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151818","tool":"pyannote","id":"151818-pyannote"},"job_id":"DjaLdb7bPCxG0aEU","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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{\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 294.039, \"end\": 294.18, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 294.18, \"end\": 294.32, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 294.32, \"end\": 294.5, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 294.5, \"end\": 294.66, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"集\", \"start\": 294.66, \"end\": 295.14, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"社\", \"start\": 295.14, \"end\": 295.361, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 295.361, \"end\": 295.541, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"由\", \"start\": 295.541, \"end\": 295.561, \"score\": 0.001}]}, {\"start\": 296.101, \"end\": 324.469, \"text\": \"那第二個部分就是在三這二條裡面我們認為有困難為什麼有困難第一個就是十年內參加政黨這個我們還可以查但是有沒有參加過政治活動政治活動的定義到底是什麼他的範疇到哪裡比如說我去參加反核遊行算不算政治活動我去參加這個反滲透法的遊行算不算政治活動這個沒有明確的定義的話我們在執行上會有相當的困難對他這個溯及既往那你政治活動沒有明確的話\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 296.101, \"end\": 296.221, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 296.221, \"end\": 296.381, \"score\": 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\"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 363.026, \"end\": 363.146, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 363.146, \"end\": 363.306, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 363.306, \"end\": 363.326, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"權\"}]}, {\"start\": 364.187, \"end\": 366.289, \"text\": \"所以我想民眾也是在期待我們所組成的監院是可以超然公正那得高望重的人士來伸張正義我相信這是所有民眾所期待的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 364.187, \"end\": 364.207, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 364.207, \"end\": 364.387, \"score\": 0.645}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 364.387, \"end\": 364.407, \"score\": 0.451}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 364.407, \"end\": 364.447, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 364.447, \"end\": 364.467, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"眾\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 364.467, \"end\": 364.487, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 364.487, \"end\": 364.507, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 364.507, 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421.002, \"text\": \"而遭信剝削的案件層出不窮\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 419.096, \"end\": 419.196, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"遭\", \"start\": 419.196, \"end\": 419.417, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"信\", \"start\": 419.417, \"end\": 419.778, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"剝\"}, {\"word\": \"削\", \"start\": 419.778, \"end\": 419.939, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 419.939, \"end\": 420.2, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 420.2, \"end\": 420.36, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 420.36, \"end\": 420.801, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"層\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 420.801, \"end\": 420.982, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 420.982, \"end\": 421.002, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"窮\"}]}, {\"start\": 422.762, \"end\": 450.08, \"text\": \"而貴院的人權會在本月10日曾發出新聞稿呼籲政府能夠正視兒少性影像犯罪的問題那恰好今天魏環也在聯席本委員會正在審查有關兒童及少年性剝削防治條例的修正草案那顯見我們社會各界對於兒少性剝削以及私密影像的杜絕相關的重視那\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 422.762, \"end\": 423.082, 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533.384, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 533.384, \"end\": 533.864, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 533.864, \"end\": 534.464, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"秘\", \"start\": 534.464, \"end\": 534.604, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"書\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 534.604, \"end\": 534.624, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:14,212 --> 00:00:17,276\n好謝謝主席主席我們有請李秘書長\n\n2\n00:00:21,656 --> 00:00:46,978\n秘書長早秘書長我們今天要審查的是有關我們監察院組織法第三條之一的這個及第三條之二的相關修正草案那也就是針對我們有關擔任監察委員的資格條件那根據憲法這個徵修條文第七條第二項所定監察院\n\n3\n00:00:47,859 --> 00:01:10,265\n我們設置有29位的監委其中一位為院長那另外一位為副院長那任期6年由總統提名經立法院同意任命之那也就是說監察委員的提名是總統在憲政上的權責那立法院在行使人事同意權之後便會在基於五權分立的這個架構下去進行\n\n4\n00:01:12,007 --> 00:01:31,005\n針對我們今天看到這個國民黨所提出要刪除第三條之一中的這個第一款也就是王建宣院長條款以及第六條第六款之中的這個張柏雅院長條款的草案我想到底是在檢視這兩位院長過去的這個\n\n5\n00:01:35,928 --> 00:01:59,925\n單任院長時的資格問題還是說對於這兩位院長過去的表現好不好的一個檢視那我想有沒有符合社會期待還是相關的議題應該是要回歸正面的這個方向來思考那我們從監察院所提供的書面報告裡面我們也可以看到\n\n6\n00:02:01,363 --> 00:02:23,074\n近三屆的這個監察委員當中是用這兩個條款加起來的可能就佔有三成以上剛剛秘書長您也大概回覆了那就秘書長您自己觀察來看是用這兩款的這個資格的監委相較其他的委員在工作上是否具有比較特別的優勢\n\n7\n00:02:25,376 --> 00:02:39,304\n比方說他們在政治上的這個豐富經驗可能會更有利於職權的行使您的看法我跟陳委員報告監察院重要的是委員組成的多元性所以我們會有1至7款\n\n8\n00:02:39,764 --> 00:02:40,044\n陳俊宇\n\n9\n00:03:01,792 --> 00:03:24,262\n在這個過程裡面我們也看到有學者提出可以參考這個考試院的修法經驗明定單一政黨委員不能超過總委員數的二分之一那秘書長您之前也是身為立法委員不僅也參與過這個考試院的這個組織修法過程那也曾對監察院組織法提出\n\n10\n00:03:25,682 --> 00:03:37,911\n這個類似的構想那我想再就教就是說現在作為監察院的秘書長您來看認為適不適合參考考試院的經驗來避免被提名人立場單一的可能\n\n11\n00:03:38,797 --> 00:03:41,079\n另外有關我們新增第三條之二的消極資格限制\n\n12\n00:03:56,935 --> 00:04:26,178\n雖然利益是希望監委能夠超脫黨派那憲法徵修條文第7條第5項也有規定監察委員需超出黨派的以外依據法律獨立行使職權在任期中未就應保持公正中立不受任何的干涉但修正的條文中對於資格所設定的這個10年內有參加過政黨或參與任何政治活動者\n\n13\n00:04:26,778 --> 00:04:55,561\n尤其對於其中這個參與過任何政治活動沒有一個明確的界定不論是時間的長度還是範圍的這個廣度在實務上是否有難以去查證的這個現象兩個部分我跟委員報告第一個就是剛剛跟莊惠祥委員的對談裡面也有提到這件事情監察院重要的是你擔任監委以後不得參加政治活動至於你擔任監委之前那本來就是人民的集會結社自由\n\n14\n00:04:56,101 --> 00:05:24,469\n那第二個部分就是在三這二條裡面我們認為有困難為什麼有困難第一個就是十年內參加政黨這個我們還可以查但是有沒有參加過政治活動政治活動的定義到底是什麼他的範疇到哪裡比如說我去參加反核遊行算不算政治活動我去參加這個反滲透法的遊行算不算政治活動這個沒有明確的定義的話我們在執行上會有相當的困難對他這個溯及既往那你政治活動沒有明確的話\n\n15\n00:05:25,529 --> 00:05:44,864\n你去助選輔選還是剛剛秘書長您說的參加反核活動算不算助選輔選我們在監察院的自律規範裡面都有嚴格的禁止是好那如果我們參照這個行政中立法第5條之中第一項的規定公務人員得加入政黨或其他這個政治團體\n\n16\n00:05:45,664 --> 00:06:03,326\n但不得兼任政黨或其他政治團體的職務那公務員可以加入政黨但監委在被提名前10年都不能有黨籍那秘書長您認為對於政治活動的界定適合參酌監察院的自律規範這樣的規定是否能夠限縮到總統的提名權\n\n17\n00:06:04,187 --> 00:06:06,289\n所以我想民眾也是在期待我們所組成的監院是可以超然公正那得高望重的人士來伸張正義我相信這是所有民眾所期待的\n\n18\n00:06:29,887 --> 00:06:52,974\n那在修法上還是尊重憲法賦予總統提名的權責在合理的情況之下我們來討論這個監委提名的問題我相信這樣才是符合民眾的期待重點是提名權跟同意權所以不要限縮總統的權限那立委可以在同意權上表示同意或不同意好那接下來我想就教秘書長針對這個兒少性剝削的這個相關議題那在\n\n19\n00:06:59,096 --> 00:07:01,002\n而遭信剝削的案件層出不窮\n\n20\n00:07:02,762 --> 00:07:30,080\n而貴院的人權會在本月10日曾發出新聞稿呼籲政府能夠正視兒少性影像犯罪的問題那恰好今天魏環也在聯席本委員會正在審查有關兒童及少年性剝削防治條例的修正草案那顯見我們社會各界對於兒少性剝削以及私密影像的杜絕相關的重視那\n\n21\n00:07:32,731 --> 00:08:00,797\n今天我想說因為目前國內不分草野急於共同解決這個問題我想請教秘書長就是我們櫃會的人權會如何在兒少性剝削相關議題上發揮最大的功能又如何來建議政府採取相關的措施來保障我們兒少的人權我跟陳委員報告我們的人權會現在目前正在進行系統性的調查有關這個議題那調查完以後我們會提出我們的建議那我們認為說\n\n22\n00:08:03,294 --> 00:08:28,909\n預計在今年的年底會提出來這個部分年底會有一個結構報告年中啦年中那我想還是對這個議題我們期待我們這個監察院的人權會能夠有更多的這個著力點尤其在人權會的委員們大多都是相關議題的這個專門研究或是貢獻者算是專家他們現在不合第七款不合第七款\n\n23\n00:08:29,249 --> 00:08:54,624\n那希望能夠盡最大的力量來落實我們兒少人權的保障不管在修法還是政策還是倡議工作或是提出建議這個我相信期待我們這個在監院及這個所有我們主管的這個帶領之下能夠各司其職讓我們一起來努力趕快來把這個問題解決我相信我們人權會提出適當的建議好謝謝秘書長好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n14212\t17276\t好 謝謝主席 主席我們有請李秘書長\n21656\t46978\t秘書長早秘書長我們今天要審查的是有關我們監察院組織法第三條之一的這個及第三條之二的相關修正草案那也就是針對我們有關擔任監察委員的資格條件那根據憲法這個徵修條文第七條第二項所定監察院\n47859\t70265\t我們設置有29位的監委其中一位為院長那另外一位為副院長那任期6年由總統提名經立法院同意任命之那也就是說監察委員的提名是總統在憲政上的權責那立法院在行使人事同意權之後便會在基於五權分立的這個架構下去進行\n72007\t91005\t針對我們今天看到這個國民黨所提出要刪除第三條之一中的這個第一款也就是王建宣院長條款以及第六條第六款之中的這個張柏雅院長條款的草案我想到底是在檢視這兩位院長過去的這個\n95928\t119925\t單任院長時的資格問題還是說對於這兩位院長過去的表現好不好的一個檢視那我想有沒有符合社會期待還是相關的議題應該是要回歸正面的這個方向來思考那我們從監察院所提供的書面報告裡面我們也可以看到\n121363\t143074\t近三屆的這個監察委員當中是用這兩個條款加起來的可能就佔有三成以上剛剛秘書長您也大概回覆了那就秘書長您自己觀察來看是用這兩款的這個資格的監委相較其他的委員在工作上是否具有比較特別的優勢\n145376\t159304\t比方說他們在政治上的這個豐富經驗可能會更有利於職權的行使您的看法我跟陳委員報告監察院重要的是委員組成的多元性所以我們會有1至7款\n159764\t160044\t陳俊宇\n181792\t204262\t在這個過程裡面我們也看到有學者提出可以參考這個考試院的修法經驗明定單一政黨委員不能超過總委員數的二分之一那秘書長您之前也是身為立法委員不僅也參與過這個考試院的這個組織修法過程那也曾對監察院組織法提出\n205682\t217911\t這個類似的構想那我想再就教就是說現在作為監察院的秘書長您來看認為適不適合參考考試院的經驗來避免被提名人立場單一的可能\n218797\t221079\t另外有關我們新增第三條之二的消極資格限制\n236935\t266178\t雖然利益是希望監委能夠超脫黨派那憲法徵修條文第7條第5項也有規定監察委員需超出黨派的以外依據法律獨立行使職權在任期中未就應保持公正中立不受任何的干涉但修正的條文中對於資格所設定的這個10年內有參加過政黨或參與任何政治活動者\n266778\t295561\t尤其對於其中這個參與過任何政治活動沒有一個明確的界定不論是時間的長度還是範圍的這個廣度在實務上是否有難以去查證的這個現象兩個部分我跟委員報告第一個就是剛剛跟莊惠祥委員的對談裡面也有提到這件事情監察院重要的是你擔任監委以後不得參加政治活動至於你擔任監委之前那本來就是人民的集會結社自由\n296101\t324469\t那第二個部分就是在三這二條裡面我們認為有困難為什麼有困難第一個就是十年內參加政黨這個我們還可以查但是有沒有參加過政治活動政治活動的定義到底是什麼他的範疇到哪裡比如說我去參加反核遊行算不算政治活動我去參加這個反滲透法的遊行算不算政治活動這個沒有明確的定義的話我們在執行上會有相當的困難對他這個溯及既往那你政治活動沒有明確的話\n325529\t344864\t你去助選輔選還是剛剛秘書長您說的參加反核活動算不算助選輔選我們在監察院的自律規範裡面都有嚴格的禁止是好那如果我們參照這個行政中立法第5條之中第一項的規定公務人員得加入政黨或其他這個政治團體\n345664\t363326\t但不得兼任政黨或其他政治團體的職務那公務員可以加入政黨但監委在被提名前10年都不能有黨籍那秘書長您認為對於政治活動的界定適合參酌監察院的自律規範這樣的規定是否能夠限縮到總統的提名權\n364187\t366289\t所以我想民眾也是在期待我們所組成的監院是可以超然公正那得高望重的人士來伸張正義我相信這是所有民眾所期待的\n389887\t412974\t那在修法上還是尊重憲法賦予總統提名的權責在合理的情況之下我們來討論這個監委提名的問題我相信這樣才是符合民眾的期待重點是提名權跟同意權所以不要限縮總統的權限那立委可以在同意權上表示同意或不同意好那接下來我想就教秘書長針對這個兒少性剝削的這個相關議題那在\n419096\t421002\t而遭信剝削的案件層出不窮\n422762\t450080\t而貴院的人權會在本月10日曾發出新聞稿呼籲政府能夠正視兒少性影像犯罪的問題那恰好今天魏環也在聯席本委員會正在審查有關兒童及少年性剝削防治條例的修正草案那顯見我們社會各界對於兒少性剝削以及私密影像的杜絕相關的重視那\n452731\t480797\t今天我想說因為目前國內不分草野急於共同解決這個問題我想請教秘書長就是我們櫃會的人權會如何在兒少性剝削相關議題上發揮最大的功能又如何來建議政府採取相關的措施來保障我們兒少的人權我跟陳委員報告我們的人權會現在目前正在進行系統性的調查有關這個議題那調查完以後我們會提出我們的建議那我們認為說\n483294\t508909\t預計在今年的年底會提出來這個部分年底會有一個結構報告年中啦年中那我想還是對這個議題我們期待我們這個監察院的人權會能夠有更多的這個著力點尤其在人權會的委員們大多都是相關議題的這個專門研究或是貢獻者算是專家他們現在不合第七款不合第七款\n509249\t534624\t那希望能夠盡最大的力量來落實我們兒少人權的保障不管在修法還是政策還是倡議工作或是提出建議這個我相信期待我們這個在監院及這個所有我們主管的這個帶領之下能夠各司其職讓我們一起來努力趕快來把這個問題解決我相信我們人權會提出適當的建議好 謝謝秘書長好 謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 主席我們有請李秘書長\n秘書長早秘書長我們今天要審查的是有關我們監察院組織法第三條之一的這個及第三條之二的相關修正草案那也就是針對我們有關擔任監察委員的資格條件那根據憲法這個徵修條文第七條第二項所定監察院\n我們設置有29位的監委其中一位為院長那另外一位為副院長那任期6年由總統提名經立法院同意任命之那也就是說監察委員的提名是總統在憲政上的權責那立法院在行使人事同意權之後便會在基於五權分立的這個架構下去進行\n針對我們今天看到這個國民黨所提出要刪除第三條之一中的這個第一款也就是王建宣院長條款以及第六條第六款之中的這個張柏雅院長條款的草案我想到底是在檢視這兩位院長過去的這個\n單任院長時的資格問題還是說對於這兩位院長過去的表現好不好的一個檢視那我想有沒有符合社會期待還是相關的議題應該是要回歸正面的這個方向來思考那我們從監察院所提供的書面報告裡面我們也可以看到\n近三屆的這個監察委員當中是用這兩個條款加起來的可能就佔有三成以上剛剛秘書長您也大概回覆了那就秘書長您自己觀察來看是用這兩款的這個資格的監委相較其他的委員在工作上是否具有比較特別的優勢\n比方說他們在政治上的這個豐富經驗可能會更有利於職權的行使您的看法我跟陳委員報告監察院重要的是委員組成的多元性所以我們會有1至7款\n陳俊宇\n在這個過程裡面我們也看到有學者提出可以參考這個考試院的修法經驗明定單一政黨委員不能超過總委員數的二分之一那秘書長您之前也是身為立法委員不僅也參與過這個考試院的這個組織修法過程那也曾對監察院組織法提出\n這個類似的構想那我想再就教就是說現在作為監察院的秘書長您來看認為適不適合參考考試院的經驗來避免被提名人立場單一的可能\n另外有關我們新增第三條之二的消極資格限制\n雖然利益是希望監委能夠超脫黨派那憲法徵修條文第7條第5項也有規定監察委員需超出黨派的以外依據法律獨立行使職權在任期中未就應保持公正中立不受任何的干涉但修正的條文中對於資格所設定的這個10年內有參加過政黨或參與任何政治活動者\n尤其對於其中這個參與過任何政治活動沒有一個明確的界定不論是時間的長度還是範圍的這個廣度在實務上是否有難以去查證的這個現象兩個部分我跟委員報告第一個就是剛剛跟莊惠祥委員的對談裡面也有提到這件事情監察院重要的是你擔任監委以後不得參加政治活動至於你擔任監委之前那本來就是人民的集會結社自由\n那第二個部分就是在三這二條裡面我們認為有困難為什麼有困難第一個就是十年內參加政黨這個我們還可以查但是有沒有參加過政治活動政治活動的定義到底是什麼他的範疇到哪裡比如說我去參加反核遊行算不算政治活動我去參加這個反滲透法的遊行算不算政治活動這個沒有明確的定義的話我們在執行上會有相當的困難對他這個溯及既往那你政治活動沒有明確的話\n你去助選輔選還是剛剛秘書長您說的參加反核活動算不算助選輔選我們在監察院的自律規範裡面都有嚴格的禁止是好那如果我們參照這個行政中立法第5條之中第一項的規定公務人員得加入政黨或其他這個政治團體\n但不得兼任政黨或其他政治團體的職務那公務員可以加入政黨但監委在被提名前10年都不能有黨籍那秘書長您認為對於政治活動的界定適合參酌監察院的自律規範這樣的規定是否能夠限縮到總統的提名權\n所以我想民眾也是在期待我們所組成的監院是可以超然公正那得高望重的人士來伸張正義我相信這是所有民眾所期待的\n那在修法上還是尊重憲法賦予總統提名的權責在合理的情況之下我們來討論這個監委提名的問題我相信這樣才是符合民眾的期待重點是提名權跟同意權所以不要限縮總統的權限那立委可以在同意權上表示同意或不同意好那接下來我想就教秘書長針對這個兒少性剝削的這個相關議題那在\n而遭信剝削的案件層出不窮\n而貴院的人權會在本月10日曾發出新聞稿呼籲政府能夠正視兒少性影像犯罪的問題那恰好今天魏環也在聯席本委員會正在審查有關兒童及少年性剝削防治條例的修正草案那顯見我們社會各界對於兒少性剝削以及私密影像的杜絕相關的重視那\n今天我想說因為目前國內不分草野急於共同解決這個問題我想請教秘書長就是我們櫃會的人權會如何在兒少性剝削相關議題上發揮最大的功能又如何來建議政府採取相關的措施來保障我們兒少的人權我跟陳委員報告我們的人權會現在目前正在進行系統性的調查有關這個議題那調查完以後我們會提出我們的建議那我們認為說\n預計在今年的年底會提出來這個部分年底會有一個結構報告年中啦年中那我想還是對這個議題我們期待我們這個監察院的人權會能夠有更多的這個著力點尤其在人權會的委員們大多都是相關議題的這個專門研究或是貢獻者算是專家他們現在不合第七款不合第七款\n那希望能夠盡最大的力量來落實我們兒少人權的保障不管在修法還是政策還是倡議工作或是提出建議這個我相信期待我們這個在監院及這個所有我們主管的這個帶領之下能夠各司其職讓我們一起來努力趕快來把這個問題解決我相信我們人權會提出適當的建議好 謝謝秘書長好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:14.212 --> 00:17.276\n好謝謝主席主席我們有請李秘書長\n\n00:21.656 --> 00:46.978\n秘書長早秘書長我們今天要審查的是有關我們監察院組織法第三條之一的這個及第三條之二的相關修正草案那也就是針對我們有關擔任監察委員的資格條件那根據憲法這個徵修條文第七條第二項所定監察院\n\n00:47.859 --> 01:10.265\n我們設置有29位的監委其中一位為院長那另外一位為副院長那任期6年由總統提名經立法院同意任命之那也就是說監察委員的提名是總統在憲政上的權責那立法院在行使人事同意權之後便會在基於五權分立的這個架構下去進行\n\n01:12.007 --> 01:31.005\n針對我們今天看到這個國民黨所提出要刪除第三條之一中的這個第一款也就是王建宣院長條款以及第六條第六款之中的這個張柏雅院長條款的草案我想到底是在檢視這兩位院長過去的這個\n\n01:35.928 --> 01:59.925\n單任院長時的資格問題還是說對於這兩位院長過去的表現好不好的一個檢視那我想有沒有符合社會期待還是相關的議題應該是要回歸正面的這個方向來思考那我們從監察院所提供的書面報告裡面我們也可以看到\n\n02:01.363 --> 02:23.074\n近三屆的這個監察委員當中是用這兩個條款加起來的可能就佔有三成以上剛剛秘書長您也大概回覆了那就秘書長您自己觀察來看是用這兩款的這個資格的監委相較其他的委員在工作上是否具有比較特別的優勢\n\n02:25.376 --> 02:39.304\n比方說他們在政治上的這個豐富經驗可能會更有利於職權的行使您的看法我跟陳委員報告監察院重要的是委員組成的多元性所以我們會有1至7款\n\n02:39.764 --> 02:40.044\n陳俊宇\n\n03:01.792 --> 03:24.262\n在這個過程裡面我們也看到有學者提出可以參考這個考試院的修法經驗明定單一政黨委員不能超過總委員數的二分之一那秘書長您之前也是身為立法委員不僅也參與過這個考試院的這個組織修法過程那也曾對監察院組織法提出\n\n03:25.682 --> 03:37.911\n這個類似的構想那我想再就教就是說現在作為監察院的秘書長您來看認為適不適合參考考試院的經驗來避免被提名人立場單一的可能\n\n03:38.797 --> 03:41.079\n另外有關我們新增第三條之二的消極資格限制\n\n03:56.935 --> 04:26.178\n雖然利益是希望監委能夠超脫黨派那憲法徵修條文第7條第5項也有規定監察委員需超出黨派的以外依據法律獨立行使職權在任期中未就應保持公正中立不受任何的干涉但修正的條文中對於資格所設定的這個10年內有參加過政黨或參與任何政治活動者\n\n04:26.778 --> 04:55.561\n尤其對於其中這個參與過任何政治活動沒有一個明確的界定不論是時間的長度還是範圍的這個廣度在實務上是否有難以去查證的這個現象兩個部分我跟委員報告第一個就是剛剛跟莊惠祥委員的對談裡面也有提到這件事情監察院重要的是你擔任監委以後不得參加政治活動至於你擔任監委之前那本來就是人民的集會結社自由\n\n04:56.101 --> 05:24.469\n那第二個部分就是在三這二條裡面我們認為有困難為什麼有困難第一個就是十年內參加政黨這個我們還可以查但是有沒有參加過政治活動政治活動的定義到底是什麼他的範疇到哪裡比如說我去參加反核遊行算不算政治活動我去參加這個反滲透法的遊行算不算政治活動這個沒有明確的定義的話我們在執行上會有相當的困難對他這個溯及既往那你政治活動沒有明確的話\n\n05:25.529 --> 05:44.864\n你去助選輔選還是剛剛秘書長您說的參加反核活動算不算助選輔選我們在監察院的自律規範裡面都有嚴格的禁止是好那如果我們參照這個行政中立法第5條之中第一項的規定公務人員得加入政黨或其他這個政治團體\n\n05:45.664 --> 06:03.326\n但不得兼任政黨或其他政治團體的職務那公務員可以加入政黨但監委在被提名前10年都不能有黨籍那秘書長您認為對於政治活動的界定適合參酌監察院的自律規範這樣的規定是否能夠限縮到總統的提名權\n\n06:04.187 --> 06:06.289\n所以我想民眾也是在期待我們所組成的監院是可以超然公正那得高望重的人士來伸張正義我相信這是所有民眾所期待的\n\n06:29.887 --> 06:52.974\n那在修法上還是尊重憲法賦予總統提名的權責在合理的情況之下我們來討論這個監委提名的問題我相信這樣才是符合民眾的期待重點是提名權跟同意權所以不要限縮總統的權限那立委可以在同意權上表示同意或不同意好那接下來我想就教秘書長針對這個兒少性剝削的這個相關議題那在\n\n06:59.096 --> 07:01.002\n而遭信剝削的案件層出不窮\n\n07:02.762 --> 07:30.080\n而貴院的人權會在本月10日曾發出新聞稿呼籲政府能夠正視兒少性影像犯罪的問題那恰好今天魏環也在聯席本委員會正在審查有關兒童及少年性剝削防治條例的修正草案那顯見我們社會各界對於兒少性剝削以及私密影像的杜絕相關的重視那\n\n07:32.731 --> 08:00.797\n今天我想說因為目前國內不分草野急於共同解決這個問題我想請教秘書長就是我們櫃會的人權會如何在兒少性剝削相關議題上發揮最大的功能又如何來建議政府採取相關的措施來保障我們兒少的人權我跟陳委員報告我們的人權會現在目前正在進行系統性的調查有關這個議題那調查完以後我們會提出我們的建議那我們認為說\n\n08:03.294 --> 08:28.909\n預計在今年的年底會提出來這個部分年底會有一個結構報告年中啦年中那我想還是對這個議題我們期待我們這個監察院的人權會能夠有更多的這個著力點尤其在人權會的委員們大多都是相關議題的這個專門研究或是貢獻者算是專家他們現在不合第七款不合第七款\n\n08:29.249 --> 08:54.624\n那希望能夠盡最大的力量來落實我們兒少人權的保障不管在修法還是政策還是倡議工作或是提出建議這個我相信期待我們這個在監院及這個所有我們主管的這個帶領之下能夠各司其職讓我們一起來努力趕快來把這個問題解決我相信我們人權會提出適當的建議好謝謝秘書長好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":14.212,"end":17.276,"text":"好 謝謝主席 主席我們有請李秘書長"},{"start":21.656,"end":46.978,"text":"秘書長早秘書長我們今天要審查的是有關我們監察院組織法第三條之一的這個及第三條之二的相關修正草案那也就是針對我們有關擔任監察委員的資格條件那根據憲法這個徵修條文第七條第二項所定監察院"},{"start":47.859,"end":70.265,"text":"我們設置有29位的監委其中一位為院長那另外一位為副院長那任期6年由總統提名經立法院同意任命之那也就是說監察委員的提名是總統在憲政上的權責那立法院在行使人事同意權之後便會在基於五權分立的這個架構下去進行"},{"start":72.007,"end":91.005,"text":"針對我們今天看到這個國民黨所提出要刪除第三條之一中的這個第一款也就是王建宣院長條款以及第六條第六款之中的這個張柏雅院長條款的草案我想到底是在檢視這兩位院長過去的這個"},{"start":95.928,"end":119.925,"text":"單任院長時的資格問題還是說對於這兩位院長過去的表現好不好的一個檢視那我想有沒有符合社會期待還是相關的議題應該是要回歸正面的這個方向來思考那我們從監察院所提供的書面報告裡面我們也可以看到"},{"start":121.363,"end":143.074,"text":"近三屆的這個監察委員當中是用這兩個條款加起來的可能就佔有三成以上剛剛秘書長您也大概回覆了那就秘書長您自己觀察來看是用這兩款的這個資格的監委相較其他的委員在工作上是否具有比較特別的優勢"},{"start":145.376,"end":159.304,"text":"比方說他們在政治上的這個豐富經驗可能會更有利於職權的行使您的看法我跟陳委員報告監察院重要的是委員組成的多元性所以我們會有1至7款"},{"start":159.764,"end":160.044,"text":"陳俊宇"},{"start":181.792,"end":204.262,"text":"在這個過程裡面我們也看到有學者提出可以參考這個考試院的修法經驗明定單一政黨委員不能超過總委員數的二分之一那秘書長您之前也是身為立法委員不僅也參與過這個考試院的這個組織修法過程那也曾對監察院組織法提出"},{"start":205.682,"end":217.911,"text":"這個類似的構想那我想再就教就是說現在作為監察院的秘書長您來看認為適不適合參考考試院的經驗來避免被提名人立場單一的可能"},{"start":218.797,"end":221.079,"text":"另外有關我們新增第三條之二的消極資格限制"},{"start":236.935,"end":266.178,"text":"雖然利益是希望監委能夠超脫黨派那憲法徵修條文第7條第5項也有規定監察委員需超出黨派的以外依據法律獨立行使職權在任期中未就應保持公正中立不受任何的干涉但修正的條文中對於資格所設定的這個10年內有參加過政黨或參與任何政治活動者"},{"start":266.778,"end":295.561,"text":"尤其對於其中這個參與過任何政治活動沒有一個明確的界定不論是時間的長度還是範圍的這個廣度在實務上是否有難以去查證的這個現象兩個部分我跟委員報告第一個就是剛剛跟莊惠祥委員的對談裡面也有提到這件事情監察院重要的是你擔任監委以後不得參加政治活動至於你擔任監委之前那本來就是人民的集會結社自由"},{"start":296.101,"end":324.469,"text":"那第二個部分就是在三這二條裡面我們認為有困難為什麼有困難第一個就是十年內參加政黨這個我們還可以查但是有沒有參加過政治活動政治活動的定義到底是什麼他的範疇到哪裡比如說我去參加反核遊行算不算政治活動我去參加這個反滲透法的遊行算不算政治活動這個沒有明確的定義的話我們在執行上會有相當的困難對他這個溯及既往那你政治活動沒有明確的話"},{"start":325.529,"end":344.864,"text":"你去助選輔選還是剛剛秘書長您說的參加反核活動算不算助選輔選我們在監察院的自律規範裡面都有嚴格的禁止是好那如果我們參照這個行政中立法第5條之中第一項的規定公務人員得加入政黨或其他這個政治團體"},{"start":345.664,"end":363.326,"text":"但不得兼任政黨或其他政治團體的職務那公務員可以加入政黨但監委在被提名前10年都不能有黨籍那秘書長您認為對於政治活動的界定適合參酌監察院的自律規範這樣的規定是否能夠限縮到總統的提名權"},{"start":364.187,"end":366.289,"text":"所以我想民眾也是在期待我們所組成的監院是可以超然公正那得高望重的人士來伸張正義我相信這是所有民眾所期待的"},{"start":389.887,"end":412.974,"text":"那在修法上還是尊重憲法賦予總統提名的權責在合理的情況之下我們來討論這個監委提名的問題我相信這樣才是符合民眾的期待重點是提名權跟同意權所以不要限縮總統的權限那立委可以在同意權上表示同意或不同意好那接下來我想就教秘書長針對這個兒少性剝削的這個相關議題那在"},{"start":419.096,"end":421.002,"text":"而遭信剝削的案件層出不窮"},{"start":422.762,"end":450.08,"text":"而貴院的人權會在本月10日曾發出新聞稿呼籲政府能夠正視兒少性影像犯罪的問題那恰好今天魏環也在聯席本委員會正在審查有關兒童及少年性剝削防治條例的修正草案那顯見我們社會各界對於兒少性剝削以及私密影像的杜絕相關的重視那"},{"start":452.731,"end":480.797,"text":"今天我想說因為目前國內不分草野急於共同解決這個問題我想請教秘書長就是我們櫃會的人權會如何在兒少性剝削相關議題上發揮最大的功能又如何來建議政府採取相關的措施來保障我們兒少的人權我跟陳委員報告我們的人權會現在目前正在進行系統性的調查有關這個議題那調查完以後我們會提出我們的建議那我們認為說"},{"start":483.294,"end":508.909,"text":"預計在今年的年底會提出來這個部分年底會有一個結構報告年中啦年中那我想還是對這個議題我們期待我們這個監察院的人權會能夠有更多的這個著力點尤其在人權會的委員們大多都是相關議題的這個專門研究或是貢獻者算是專家他們現在不合第七款不合第七款"},{"start":509.249,"end":534.624,"text":"那希望能夠盡最大的力量來落實我們兒少人權的保障不管在修法還是政策還是倡議工作或是提出建議這個我相信期待我們這個在監院及這個所有我們主管的這個帶領之下能夠各司其職讓我們一起來努力趕快來把這個問題解決我相信我們人權會提出適當的建議好 謝謝秘書長好 謝謝"}]}}}}