{"id":151824,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151824","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e90f54132b1096e6dc0aa23962b8c8d4656dd8af69baafbe34e2527b10508eee94885ffc673e66ca5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈伯洋","委員發言時間":"10:09:50 - 10:18:08","影片長度":"00:08:18","會議時間":"2024-04-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會主任委員馮世寬報告「退輔會服務照顧及相關救補助精進作為」，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-04-29","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-15"},"duration":498,"end_time":"2024-04-29T10:18:08+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-29T10:09:50+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":268,"blocks":[["沈委員伯洋：（10時9分）謝謝主席，有請主委。"],["主席：有請主委。"],["馮主任委員世寬：沈委員早安。"],["沈委員伯洋：主委早。","時間因素，我今天就迅速。謝謝馬委員剛剛臨時跟我調換順序。","第一個就是我想問一下和榮家床位有關的問題。目前16個榮家，新聞裡面有講到，尤其是彰化榮家現在已經出現滿床的現象，但是又有一些新聞提到它其實有開放一般民眾進去，我不知道確切的數字，因為這大概是半年以前的新聞，所以我只是想要知道現在的狀況大概是如何？"],["周處長興國：目前我們考量資源共享，逐步開放給一般民眾，上次質詢的時候主委曾經講過15%，目前我們達到16.48%，開放1,448床，入住大概有1,163床，占八成。我們的考量是，如果這個榮家的榮民沒有候住的狀況，而一般民眾有候住的狀況，我們就考量來開放。以上。"],["沈委員伯洋：OK。我為什麼這樣問？最主要也是因為之前提到護病比，所以我們現在是希望能像剛剛講的，讓一般民眾也可以多來使用。","因為高雄、臺北和臺中榮總的護病比看起來好像還是被認為有點不太合乎常理，不知道這方面目前有沒有一些改善的方向？因為這個問題畢竟已經一陣子了嘛！所以我們想要知道現在的狀況。"],["張處長仁義：有關護病比，我們就是配合國家的政策，因為人力的關係，確實是有困難，目前我們是三班護病比、全日，都已經符合標準，但尤其是夜班，現在也是積極在招募人員，正在努力當中，都配合國家的政策。"],["沈委員伯洋：我希望退輔會能夠積極幫忙，因為說真的，現在國防部也有很多軍官的壓力過大，業務過度繁重，一樣的，在醫院裡面也會有一模一樣的問題，如果退輔會能夠提供一些協助的話，我也希望能夠幫他們改善一下，不然以工作時長來講，說真的，可能會有壓力過大的問題。","接下來我想追問一下上次問過的職涯探索的部分。因為之前有提到自辦訓練、委外訓練等等的狀況，上次我在辦公室裡面有直接問你們會內人員，關於這個職涯探索的部分，因為我看到它有15個場次、450人，我想先問一下，職涯探索是一定要參加，還是自願參加？"],["池處長玉蘭：委員好。跟您報告，職涯探索營是由軍方這邊來辦理，它篩選相關的人員以後，提供給本會來做三天兩夜的職涯探索營。"],["沈委員伯洋：因為我之前也有問過會內人員，就是我個人認為職涯探索的幫助應該會滿大的。"],["池處長玉蘭：很大！"],["沈委員伯洋：為什麼我會這樣講？是因為他越瞭解這個市場，就能越早做準備。"],["池處長玉蘭：是！"],["沈委員伯洋：因為很多時候是譬如他在軍中有各式各樣的技能，當然，這個技能到底能不能和社會銜接，這個我待會兒再說，但是現在是，他即使有這個技能，也未必知道要應用在哪裡。聽起來職涯探索要花費的預算應該也滿多的啦！"],["池處長玉蘭：是！"],["沈委員伯洋：但是如果職涯探索是幫助比較大的，是不是可能有一些不管是問卷等等之類的，讓我們知道它的效能有多高？這方面如果能去爭取更多預算的話，我會覺得反而是重要的，所以我是希望接下來因為下個會期就要進入預算會期了，就這個方面，我覺得職涯探索應該會是一個重點，是不是可以去討論它的成效如何？"],["池處長玉蘭：是。"],["沈委員伯洋：另外一個就是，因為我看到在重返職場方面，澳洲是強制參加，計3天，美國不是強制參加，但是他們的時程比較長。現在的問題是，美國的數據顯示他們在軍中學的有80%可以直接做銜接，那我們是不是也能夠朝這個目標前進？"],["池處長玉蘭：謝謝委員，簡單來講，我們現在為什麼只有3天？最主要是我們要配合國防部，因為國防部還是以戰訓本務為主，所以目前只能夠3天。現在已經從一年300人增加到450人，我們會持續和國防部協商，當然，最重要的是我們職涯探索在重返職場上的成效，我們是站在官兵的需求，其實我們的目標是希望他們在軍中所學能夠順利運用到退後的職場，所以過去一段時間，我們和國防部也希望可以盤點他們在軍中的職能發展，希望能和民間職場對接，讓他們在軍中所學順利在回到職場後，在人力資源上面繼續發揮。當然，目前國防部有一些困難，除了戰訓本務的問題，還有一些預算的問題，我們其實都有在不斷跟他們協商，希望至少現在還沒有做這個軍職職能和民間職場的對接之前，我們這邊就有職涯的適性評量、職涯諮商，來協助他們退了以後，讓他盤點自己適合從事哪個方面的工作，由我們來提供就學、職訓、就業方面的建議；我們現在已經在持續努力當中。"],["沈委員伯洋：希望你們和國防部多談一談，因為這畢竟是要和國防部互相協作的。我們在和國防部溝通的時候也是，因為國防部現在有些官兵的業務量也實在太大了，如何能夠把這個拿掉，然後做一些更適性的發展，我相信陳永康委員也有一整套的計畫，就是我們要怎麼樣讓他能夠訓練到真的有用的東西，以及這些東西能不能協助讓他跟民間銜接。國防那一方面在改的時候，希望退輔會也可以多跟他們討論。","為什麼我會提到這一點？也是因為上次我們有提到退休軍官常常會被中國接觸，他們被接觸之後又再接觸現役的軍人，當他成為中間人的時候，其實就會有很多問題。當時我們討論修法也是因為這個修法不只是要動到退輔會相關的，它其實最主要也是要動到現在的官兵。所以剛好是在上個禮拜還是上上禮拜的時候，國防部也有來跟我們討論這樣的一個法案，就是如果這個東西真的要修，譬如說他今天違反反滲透法或是相關的法令，除了退休俸可能會遭到限制以外，更重要的事情是，它其實應該一體地讓現役軍人也能夠用。所以這方面的草案我們是兩個都送出去了，我們不是只有針對退休的，我們是整體的，現役的我們送出相關的草案，退休的我們也送出相關的草案，讓它可以一體適用。但是在討論這些法案的同時，真的滿需要兩邊互相協調，因為之後應該還會再動一些相關的法令，那可能已經跟懲罰無關，反而是跟就業等等有關的，它需要兩邊的協調嘛，希望我們在做的時候不只是跟退輔會溝通，國防部也可以同時一起來，這樣的話，我們在討論要怎麼去做相關體制和制度上的改變的時候，一定會變得比較容易。這點也在這邊跟主委報告一下。"],["馮主任委員世寬：好的，謝謝。"],["沈委員伯洋：那就先這個樣子，這是我們提出的和國安法相關的修正，退輔的條例那邊我們也已經送出來了，但畢竟只是送出去而已，之後可能還要進入到這邊，要逐條討論等等之類的，希望你們對於這些法條有什麼意見的話，能夠提早做準備，然後我們就可以在逐條討論的時候再來看到底要做什麼細部的微調。謝謝。","謝謝主席，謝謝。"],["主席：下面我們請馬文君委員來質詢，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":308,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-15","speakers":["馬文君","羅美玲","王定宇","黃仁","陳永康","林楚茵","沈伯洋","陳冠廷","洪申翰","徐巧芯","邱志偉","林憶君","賴士葆","羅智強"],"page_start":267,"meetingDate":["2024-04-29"],"gazette_id":"1133501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133501_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會主任委員馮世寬報告「退輔會服務照顧及相關救補助精進作\n為」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1133501_00015"}},"transcript":{"id":"151824","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151824","tool":"pyannote","id":"151824-pyannote"},"job_id":"8FSXAZWyj4dpK9Kk","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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{\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 391.486, \"end\": 391.666, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"觸\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 391.666, \"end\": 392.147, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 392.147, \"end\": 392.307, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 392.307, \"end\": 392.587, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"觸\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 392.587, \"end\": 392.687, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 392.687, \"end\": 392.707, \"score\": 0.018}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 392.707, \"end\": 392.867, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"又\", \"start\": 392.867, \"end\": 393.047, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 393.047, \"end\": 393.227, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 393.227, \"end\": 393.887, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"觸\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"役\", \"start\": 393.887, \"end\": 394.087, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 394.087, \"end\": 394.547, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"軍\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 394.547, \"end\": 395.208, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 395.208, \"end\": 395.528, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 395.528, \"end\": 395.648, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 395.648, \"end\": 395.748, \"score\": 0.689}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 395.748, \"end\": 395.888, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 395.888, \"end\": 396.188, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 396.188, \"end\": 396.508, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 396.508, \"end\": 396.628, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 396.628, \"end\": 396.868, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 396.868, \"end\": 397.048, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 397.048, \"end\": 397.368, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 397.368, \"end\": 397.489, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 397.489, \"end\": 397.629, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 397.629, \"end\": 397.769, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 397.769, \"end\": 397.929, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 397.929, \"end\": 397.949, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 398.949, \"end\": 425.09, \"text\": \"那時候我們在討論修法的時候也是因為這個修法不只是要動到退輔會相關的它其實最主要也是要動到現在的官兵所以我們在剛好是上個禮拜還是上上禮拜的時候國防部也有來跟我們討論這樣的一個法案就是說如果這個東西真的要修比如說它今天違反反滲透法或者承認相關的法令它今天這個退休縫可能是會遭受到限制以外更重要的事情是它其實應該一體的讓現役軍人也能夠用\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 398.949, \"end\": 399.089, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 399.089, \"end\": 399.189, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 399.189, \"end\": 399.329, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 399.329, \"end\": 399.93, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, 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\"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 491.703, \"end\": 491.783, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 491.783, \"end\": 492.224, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"細\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 492.224, \"end\": 492.344, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 492.344, \"end\": 492.464, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"微\", \"start\": 492.464, \"end\": 492.484, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"調\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,592 --> 00:00:01,477\n謝謝主席有請主委\n\n2\n00:00:10,638 --> 00:00:33,516\n主委早安主委早好那個時間因素我今天就迅速謝謝毛委員剛剛臨時跟我調換順序那第一個就是我想問一下就是跟這一個容家床位有關的因為這一個目前我們看到這一個16個容家那這個他想在新聞裡面有講到尤其是彰化容家現在已經出現滿床的一個現象\n\n3\n00:00:34,216 --> 00:00:34,896\n主委講到15%目前我們達到16.48%開放1448床\n\n4\n00:01:03,812 --> 00:01:05,133\n為什麼這樣問最主要也是因為之前他就說這個互併比\n\n5\n00:01:23,662 --> 00:01:42,552\n雖然我們現在是希望能夠像剛剛講的讓一般的也可以來做使用但因為這個互併筆在高雄台北跟台中榮總之類這個互併筆看起來好像還是被認為說這個互併筆有點不太合乎常理那不知道這一個方面有沒有可能有一些目前改善的方向\n\n6\n00:01:44,469 --> 00:02:08,423\n因為這畢竟已經一陣子了嘛所以我們想要知道現在的報告委員我是九一保健處處長詹仁義有關於護病比我們就是配合國家的政策那因為人力的關係確實是有困難那現在目前我們是三班的護病比全日都已經有符合標準但是有關於尤其是夜班現在也是說積極在招募人員在努力當中都配合國家的政策\n\n7\n00:02:09,323 --> 00:02:32,015\n希望就是說這邊我寫的就是希望退輔會能夠積極幫忙因為畢竟說真的現在大家這個不管是我們之前在國防部的時候現在發現也有很多的一些軍官他們壓力也是過大業務過度繁重那一樣的在這個醫院也會有一模一樣的問題如果退輔會能夠幫他們做一些協助的話希望是能夠幫他們改善一下不然的話以工作時長來講說真的可能會有壓力過大的問題\n\n8\n00:02:33,315 --> 00:02:59,037\n那接下來我想問一下這上次我追問的就是質押探索的部分那我不問滿我先往下就是因為之前有提到這個自辦訓練啊委外訓練啊等等的一個狀況那上次因為我有先直接有問你們會面以後在辦公室裡面有問就是關於這個質押探索這個部分因為我看到他有15個場次450人我想先問一下質押探索他是一定要參加的還是是說就是他自願參加\n\n9\n00:03:00,902 --> 00:03:04,907\n執照探索營是由軍方報名篩選相關人員以後提供給本會做三天兩夜的執照探索營\n\n10\n00:03:16,500 --> 00:03:33,359\n因為我個人認為,因為我之前也有問過會內,就是我覺得指教探索員的幫助應該會蠻大的。那為什麼會這樣子講呢?是因為他越了解這個市場,他也越早能夠做準備。因為我們很多時候是,譬如說在軍中裡面他有各式各樣的技能,那當然現在技能到底能不能夠先接社會這個我待會再說。\n\n11\n00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:57,733\n但是現在就是說他即使有這個技能他不知道應用在哪裡所以不知道有沒有可能讓我知道質押探索可能這樣聽起來要花費的預算應該也會是蠻多的但是顯然質押探索贏的如果他是幫助比較大的是不是可能有一些不管是問卷等等之類的讓譬如說我們知道他的效能有多高那這方面如果能夠去爭取更多的預算的話我覺得反而是重要的\n\n12\n00:03:58,453 --> 00:04:27,733\n是希望說在接下來因為我們下個會期要進入預算會期了就這一個方面我覺得質押探索應該是一個重點是不是可以去討論它的成效如何是那另外一個就是這邊我寫到的就是因為在這一個我看到這個重返職場這一個部分澳洲的部分它有強制參加是三天那美國不是強制參加但它時程比較長那但是現在問題就是說因為我看美國的數據他說它有80%他們在軍中學的可以直接做銜接\n\n13\n00:04:29,078 --> 00:04:30,952\n我們是不是也能夠朝這個目標前進?\n\n14\n00:04:31,761 --> 00:04:35,703\n是謝謝委員好簡單的來講我們現在就是為什麼只有三天那最主要我們要配合國防部因為國防部他還是以戰訓本務為主所以我們目前只能夠三天那我現在已經從300人一年300人增加到450人好那我們會持續再去跟國防部來協商那當然最重要我們的職埃的一個重返職場上面的一個成效呢我們不斷的一樣我們是站在\n\n15\n00:04:59,695 --> 00:05:13,018\n官兵的一個需求其實我們的目標希望他在軍中所學能夠就是順利運用到退後的職場所以在過去一段時間我們也跟國防部在希望能夠盤點他在軍中的職能的發展能夠跟民間職場能夠對接讓他在軍中的一個所學順利再回到職場上面人力資源再繼續發揮\n\n16\n00:05:24,420 --> 00:05:29,584\n目前其實當然國防部他有一些困難還是以戰訓本務的問題還有一些預算的問題那我們其實都有不斷在跟他們協商希望我們至少現在還沒有做這個軍職職能的對接民間職場的一個對接之前那我們這邊就有職癌的適性憑良職癌之商來協助他們退了以後然後讓他盤點他適合從事哪個方業我給他就學執訓就業這樣子的一個建議\n\n17\n00:05:54,324 --> 00:06:14,999\n我們現在已經在持續的努力當中好那就希望是跟國防部多談因為畢竟這個是跟國防部要互相協作的那我們在跟國防部溝通的時候也是因為國防部現在有時候有些官兵他們的業務量也實在太大了他能夠把這個拿掉然後做一些更適性的一些發展我相信這個陳永康委員他也有一整套的計畫就是說我們要怎麼讓他訓練到真的有用的東西\n\n18\n00:06:17,521 --> 00:06:37,949\n以及這些東西能不能夠讓他協助跟民間銜接那國防部那一方面在改的時候希望退輔會也是可以多跟他們討論那為什麼我會提到這一點也是因為上次我們有提到這一個退休的軍官他們常常會被中國接觸然後接觸了之後又再接觸現役的軍人那這個部分他成為中間人的時候其實會有很多的問題嘛\n\n19\n00:06:38,949 --> 00:07:05,090\n那時候我們在討論修法的時候也是因為這個修法不只是要動到退輔會相關的它其實最主要也是要動到現在的官兵所以我們在剛好是上個禮拜還是上上禮拜的時候國防部也有來跟我們討論這樣的一個法案就是說如果這個東西真的要修比如說它今天違反反滲透法或者承認相關的法令它今天這個退休縫可能是會遭受到限制以外更重要的事情是它其實應該一體的讓現役軍人也能夠用\n\n20\n00:07:08,112 --> 00:07:36,634\n所以這方面的草案呢我們是兩個都送出去了我們不是只有針對退休的我們是整體的現役的我們也送出相關的草案然後退休的我們也送出相關的草案讓他可以一體適用所以呢但是因為像在討論這些法案的同時說真的蠻需要兩邊互相協調的所以呢希望說在之後呢我們在應該還會再動一些相關的法令但可能已經跟懲罰無關反而是跟就業等等有關的他需要兩邊的協調嗎那希望我們在座的時候呢我們不只是跟退輔會溝通\n\n21\n00:07:37,555 --> 00:08:03,696\n國防部在同時間也可以一起來那這樣的話呢我們在討論相關要怎麼去做體制上的跟制度上的改變的時候一定會變得比較容易齁那也在這邊跟主委報告一下好的謝謝那這個這個我們不好意思講掉了這樣應該OK齁所以呢那就先這個樣子齁這是我們提出的跟國安法相關的修正那退輔的條例那邊的我們也已經送出來了那但是畢竟只是送出去而已之後可能還要進入到這邊要逐條啊等等之類的\n\n22\n00:08:04,396 --> 00:08:12,484\n希望你們對於這些法條有什麼意見的話能夠提早做準備然後我們就可以在除條的時候再來看到底要做什麼一些細部的微調\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n592\t1477\t謝謝主席 有請主委\n10638\t33516\t主委早安主委早好 那個時間因素我今天就迅速謝謝毛委員剛剛臨時跟我調換順序那第一個就是我想問一下就是跟這一個容家床位有關的因為這一個目前我們看到這一個16個容家那這個他想在新聞裡面有講到尤其是彰化容家現在已經出現滿床的一個現象\n34216\t34896\t主委講到15%目前我們達到16.48%開放1448床\n63812\t65133\t為什麼這樣問 最主要也是因為之前他就說這個互併比\n83662\t102552\t雖然我們現在是希望能夠像剛剛講的讓一般的也可以來做使用但因為這個互併筆在高雄台北跟台中榮總之類這個互併筆看起來好像還是被認為說這個互併筆有點不太合乎常理那不知道這一個方面有沒有可能有一些目前改善的方向\n104469\t128423\t因為這畢竟已經一陣子了嘛所以我們想要知道現在的報告委員我是九一保健處處長詹仁義有關於護病比我們就是配合國家的政策那因為人力的關係確實是有困難那現在目前我們是三班的護病比全日都已經有符合標準但是有關於尤其是夜班現在也是說積極在招募人員在努力當中都配合國家的政策\n129323\t152015\t希望就是說這邊我寫的就是希望退輔會能夠積極幫忙因為畢竟說真的現在大家這個不管是我們之前在國防部的時候現在發現也有很多的一些軍官他們壓力也是過大業務過度繁重那一樣的在這個醫院也會有一模一樣的問題如果退輔會能夠幫他們做一些協助的話希望是能夠幫他們改善一下不然的話以工作時長來講說真的可能會有壓力過大的問題\n153315\t179037\t那接下來我想問一下這上次我追問的就是質押探索的部分那我不問滿我先往下就是因為之前有提到這個自辦訓練啊委外訓練啊等等的一個狀況那上次因為我有先直接有問你們會面以後在辦公室裡面有問就是關於這個質押探索這個部分因為我看到他有15個場次450人我想先問一下質押探索他是一定要參加的還是是說就是他自願參加\n180902\t184907\t執照探索營是由軍方報名篩選相關人員以後提供給本會做三天兩夜的執照探索營\n196500\t213359\t因為我個人認為,因為我之前也有問過會內,就是我覺得指教探索員的幫助應該會蠻大的。那為什麼會這樣子講呢?是因為他越了解這個市場,他也越早能夠做準備。因為我們很多時候是,譬如說在軍中裡面他有各式各樣的技能,那當然現在技能到底能不能夠先接社會這個我待會再說。\n214400\t237733\t但是現在就是說他即使有這個技能他不知道應用在哪裡所以不知道有沒有可能讓我知道質押探索可能這樣聽起來要花費的預算應該也會是蠻多的但是顯然質押探索贏的如果他是幫助比較大的是不是可能有一些不管是問卷等等之類的讓譬如說我們知道他的效能有多高那這方面如果能夠去爭取更多的預算的話我覺得反而是重要的\n238453\t267733\t是希望說在接下來因為我們下個會期要進入預算會期了就這一個方面我覺得質押探索應該是一個重點是不是可以去討論它的成效如何是那另外一個就是這邊我寫到的就是因為在這一個我看到這個重返職場這一個部分澳洲的部分它有強制參加是三天那美國不是強制參加但它時程比較長那但是現在問題就是說因為我看美國的數據他說它有80%他們在軍中學的可以直接做銜接\n269078\t270952\t我們是不是也能夠朝這個目標前進?\n271761\t275703\t是謝謝委員好簡單的來講我們現在就是為什麼只有三天那最主要我們要配合國防部因為國防部他還是以戰訓本務為主所以我們目前只能夠三天那我現在已經從300人一年300人增加到450人好那我們會持續再去跟國防部來協商那當然最重要我們的職埃的一個重返職場上面的一個成效呢我們不斷的一樣我們是站在\n299695\t313018\t官兵的一個需求其實我們的目標希望他在軍中所學能夠就是順利運用到退後的職場所以在過去一段時間我們也跟國防部在希望能夠盤點他在軍中的職能的發展能夠跟民間職場能夠對接讓他在軍中的一個所學順利再回到職場上面人力資源再繼續發揮\n324420\t329584\t目前其實當然國防部他有一些困難還是以戰訓本務的問題還有一些預算的問題那我們其實都有不斷在跟他們協商希望我們至少現在還沒有做這個軍職職能的對接民間職場的一個對接之前那我們這邊就有職癌的適性憑良職癌之商來協助他們退了以後然後讓他盤點他適合從事哪個方業我給他就學執訓就業這樣子的一個建議\n354324\t374999\t我們現在已經在持續的努力當中好 那就希望是跟國防部多談因為畢竟這個是跟國防部要互相協作的那我們在跟國防部溝通的時候也是因為國防部現在有時候有些官兵他們的業務量也實在太大了他能夠把這個拿掉然後做一些更適性的一些發展我相信這個陳永康委員他也有一整套的計畫就是說我們要怎麼讓他訓練到真的有用的東西\n377521\t397949\t以及這些東西能不能夠讓他協助跟民間銜接那國防部那一方面在改的時候希望退輔會也是可以多跟他們討論那為什麼我會提到這一點也是因為上次我們有提到這一個退休的軍官他們常常會被中國接觸然後接觸了之後又再接觸現役的軍人那這個部分他成為中間人的時候其實會有很多的問題嘛\n398949\t425090\t那時候我們在討論修法的時候也是因為這個修法不只是要動到退輔會相關的它其實最主要也是要動到現在的官兵所以我們在剛好是上個禮拜還是上上禮拜的時候國防部也有來跟我們討論這樣的一個法案就是說如果這個東西真的要修比如說它今天違反反滲透法或者承認相關的法令它今天這個退休縫可能是會遭受到限制以外更重要的事情是它其實應該一體的讓現役軍人也能夠用\n428112\t456634\t所以這方面的草案呢我們是兩個都送出去了我們不是只有針對退休的我們是整體的現役的我們也送出相關的草案然後退休的我們也送出相關的草案讓他可以一體適用所以呢但是因為像在討論這些法案的同時說真的蠻需要兩邊互相協調的所以呢希望說在之後呢我們在應該還會再動一些相關的法令但可能已經跟懲罰無關反而是跟就業等等有關的他需要兩邊的協調嗎那希望我們在座的時候呢我們不只是跟退輔會溝通\n457555\t483696\t國防部在同時間也可以一起來那這樣的話呢我們在討論相關要怎麼去做體制上的跟制度上的改變的時候一定會變得比較容易齁那也在這邊跟主委報告一下好的謝謝那這個這個我們不好意思講掉了這樣應該OK齁所以呢那就先這個樣子齁這是我們提出的跟國安法相關的修正那退輔的條例那邊的我們也已經送出來了那但是畢竟只是送出去而已之後可能還要進入到這邊要逐條啊等等之類的\n484396\t492484\t希望你們對於這些法條有什麼意見的話能夠提早做準備然後我們就可以在除條的時候再來看到底要做什麼一些細部的微調\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請主委\n主委早安主委早好 那個時間因素我今天就迅速謝謝毛委員剛剛臨時跟我調換順序那第一個就是我想問一下就是跟這一個容家床位有關的因為這一個目前我們看到這一個16個容家那這個他想在新聞裡面有講到尤其是彰化容家現在已經出現滿床的一個現象\n主委講到15%目前我們達到16.48%開放1448床\n為什麼這樣問 最主要也是因為之前他就說這個互併比\n雖然我們現在是希望能夠像剛剛講的讓一般的也可以來做使用但因為這個互併筆在高雄台北跟台中榮總之類這個互併筆看起來好像還是被認為說這個互併筆有點不太合乎常理那不知道這一個方面有沒有可能有一些目前改善的方向\n因為這畢竟已經一陣子了嘛所以我們想要知道現在的報告委員我是九一保健處處長詹仁義有關於護病比我們就是配合國家的政策那因為人力的關係確實是有困難那現在目前我們是三班的護病比全日都已經有符合標準但是有關於尤其是夜班現在也是說積極在招募人員在努力當中都配合國家的政策\n希望就是說這邊我寫的就是希望退輔會能夠積極幫忙因為畢竟說真的現在大家這個不管是我們之前在國防部的時候現在發現也有很多的一些軍官他們壓力也是過大業務過度繁重那一樣的在這個醫院也會有一模一樣的問題如果退輔會能夠幫他們做一些協助的話希望是能夠幫他們改善一下不然的話以工作時長來講說真的可能會有壓力過大的問題\n那接下來我想問一下這上次我追問的就是質押探索的部分那我不問滿我先往下就是因為之前有提到這個自辦訓練啊委外訓練啊等等的一個狀況那上次因為我有先直接有問你們會面以後在辦公室裡面有問就是關於這個質押探索這個部分因為我看到他有15個場次450人我想先問一下質押探索他是一定要參加的還是是說就是他自願參加\n執照探索營是由軍方報名篩選相關人員以後提供給本會做三天兩夜的執照探索營\n因為我個人認為,因為我之前也有問過會內,就是我覺得指教探索員的幫助應該會蠻大的。那為什麼會這樣子講呢?是因為他越了解這個市場,他也越早能夠做準備。因為我們很多時候是,譬如說在軍中裡面他有各式各樣的技能,那當然現在技能到底能不能夠先接社會這個我待會再說。\n但是現在就是說他即使有這個技能他不知道應用在哪裡所以不知道有沒有可能讓我知道質押探索可能這樣聽起來要花費的預算應該也會是蠻多的但是顯然質押探索贏的如果他是幫助比較大的是不是可能有一些不管是問卷等等之類的讓譬如說我們知道他的效能有多高那這方面如果能夠去爭取更多的預算的話我覺得反而是重要的\n是希望說在接下來因為我們下個會期要進入預算會期了就這一個方面我覺得質押探索應該是一個重點是不是可以去討論它的成效如何是那另外一個就是這邊我寫到的就是因為在這一個我看到這個重返職場這一個部分澳洲的部分它有強制參加是三天那美國不是強制參加但它時程比較長那但是現在問題就是說因為我看美國的數據他說它有80%他們在軍中學的可以直接做銜接\n我們是不是也能夠朝這個目標前進?\n是謝謝委員好簡單的來講我們現在就是為什麼只有三天那最主要我們要配合國防部因為國防部他還是以戰訓本務為主所以我們目前只能夠三天那我現在已經從300人一年300人增加到450人好那我們會持續再去跟國防部來協商那當然最重要我們的職埃的一個重返職場上面的一個成效呢我們不斷的一樣我們是站在\n官兵的一個需求其實我們的目標希望他在軍中所學能夠就是順利運用到退後的職場所以在過去一段時間我們也跟國防部在希望能夠盤點他在軍中的職能的發展能夠跟民間職場能夠對接讓他在軍中的一個所學順利再回到職場上面人力資源再繼續發揮\n目前其實當然國防部他有一些困難還是以戰訓本務的問題還有一些預算的問題那我們其實都有不斷在跟他們協商希望我們至少現在還沒有做這個軍職職能的對接民間職場的一個對接之前那我們這邊就有職癌的適性憑良職癌之商來協助他們退了以後然後讓他盤點他適合從事哪個方業我給他就學執訓就業這樣子的一個建議\n我們現在已經在持續的努力當中好 那就希望是跟國防部多談因為畢竟這個是跟國防部要互相協作的那我們在跟國防部溝通的時候也是因為國防部現在有時候有些官兵他們的業務量也實在太大了他能夠把這個拿掉然後做一些更適性的一些發展我相信這個陳永康委員他也有一整套的計畫就是說我們要怎麼讓他訓練到真的有用的東西\n以及這些東西能不能夠讓他協助跟民間銜接那國防部那一方面在改的時候希望退輔會也是可以多跟他們討論那為什麼我會提到這一點也是因為上次我們有提到這一個退休的軍官他們常常會被中國接觸然後接觸了之後又再接觸現役的軍人那這個部分他成為中間人的時候其實會有很多的問題嘛\n那時候我們在討論修法的時候也是因為這個修法不只是要動到退輔會相關的它其實最主要也是要動到現在的官兵所以我們在剛好是上個禮拜還是上上禮拜的時候國防部也有來跟我們討論這樣的一個法案就是說如果這個東西真的要修比如說它今天違反反滲透法或者承認相關的法令它今天這個退休縫可能是會遭受到限制以外更重要的事情是它其實應該一體的讓現役軍人也能夠用\n所以這方面的草案呢我們是兩個都送出去了我們不是只有針對退休的我們是整體的現役的我們也送出相關的草案然後退休的我們也送出相關的草案讓他可以一體適用所以呢但是因為像在討論這些法案的同時說真的蠻需要兩邊互相協調的所以呢希望說在之後呢我們在應該還會再動一些相關的法令但可能已經跟懲罰無關反而是跟就業等等有關的他需要兩邊的協調嗎那希望我們在座的時候呢我們不只是跟退輔會溝通\n國防部在同時間也可以一起來那這樣的話呢我們在討論相關要怎麼去做體制上的跟制度上的改變的時候一定會變得比較容易齁那也在這邊跟主委報告一下好的謝謝那這個這個我們不好意思講掉了這樣應該OK齁所以呢那就先這個樣子齁這是我們提出的跟國安法相關的修正那退輔的條例那邊的我們也已經送出來了那但是畢竟只是送出去而已之後可能還要進入到這邊要逐條啊等等之類的\n希望你們對於這些法條有什麼意見的話能夠提早做準備然後我們就可以在除條的時候再來看到底要做什麼一些細部的微調\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.592 --> 00:01.477\n謝謝主席有請主委\n\n00:10.638 --> 00:33.516\n主委早安主委早好那個時間因素我今天就迅速謝謝毛委員剛剛臨時跟我調換順序那第一個就是我想問一下就是跟這一個容家床位有關的因為這一個目前我們看到這一個16個容家那這個他想在新聞裡面有講到尤其是彰化容家現在已經出現滿床的一個現象\n\n00:34.216 --> 00:34.896\n主委講到15%目前我們達到16.48%開放1448床\n\n01:03.812 --> 01:05.133\n為什麼這樣問最主要也是因為之前他就說這個互併比\n\n01:23.662 --> 01:42.552\n雖然我們現在是希望能夠像剛剛講的讓一般的也可以來做使用但因為這個互併筆在高雄台北跟台中榮總之類這個互併筆看起來好像還是被認為說這個互併筆有點不太合乎常理那不知道這一個方面有沒有可能有一些目前改善的方向\n\n01:44.469 --> 02:08.423\n因為這畢竟已經一陣子了嘛所以我們想要知道現在的報告委員我是九一保健處處長詹仁義有關於護病比我們就是配合國家的政策那因為人力的關係確實是有困難那現在目前我們是三班的護病比全日都已經有符合標準但是有關於尤其是夜班現在也是說積極在招募人員在努力當中都配合國家的政策\n\n02:09.323 --> 02:32.015\n希望就是說這邊我寫的就是希望退輔會能夠積極幫忙因為畢竟說真的現在大家這個不管是我們之前在國防部的時候現在發現也有很多的一些軍官他們壓力也是過大業務過度繁重那一樣的在這個醫院也會有一模一樣的問題如果退輔會能夠幫他們做一些協助的話希望是能夠幫他們改善一下不然的話以工作時長來講說真的可能會有壓力過大的問題\n\n02:33.315 --> 02:59.037\n那接下來我想問一下這上次我追問的就是質押探索的部分那我不問滿我先往下就是因為之前有提到這個自辦訓練啊委外訓練啊等等的一個狀況那上次因為我有先直接有問你們會面以後在辦公室裡面有問就是關於這個質押探索這個部分因為我看到他有15個場次450人我想先問一下質押探索他是一定要參加的還是是說就是他自願參加\n\n03:00.902 --> 03:04.907\n執照探索營是由軍方報名篩選相關人員以後提供給本會做三天兩夜的執照探索營\n\n03:16.500 --> 03:33.359\n因為我個人認為,因為我之前也有問過會內,就是我覺得指教探索員的幫助應該會蠻大的。那為什麼會這樣子講呢?是因為他越了解這個市場,他也越早能夠做準備。因為我們很多時候是,譬如說在軍中裡面他有各式各樣的技能,那當然現在技能到底能不能夠先接社會這個我待會再說。\n\n03:34.400 --> 03:57.733\n但是現在就是說他即使有這個技能他不知道應用在哪裡所以不知道有沒有可能讓我知道質押探索可能這樣聽起來要花費的預算應該也會是蠻多的但是顯然質押探索贏的如果他是幫助比較大的是不是可能有一些不管是問卷等等之類的讓譬如說我們知道他的效能有多高那這方面如果能夠去爭取更多的預算的話我覺得反而是重要的\n\n03:58.453 --> 04:27.733\n是希望說在接下來因為我們下個會期要進入預算會期了就這一個方面我覺得質押探索應該是一個重點是不是可以去討論它的成效如何是那另外一個就是這邊我寫到的就是因為在這一個我看到這個重返職場這一個部分澳洲的部分它有強制參加是三天那美國不是強制參加但它時程比較長那但是現在問題就是說因為我看美國的數據他說它有80%他們在軍中學的可以直接做銜接\n\n04:29.078 --> 04:30.952\n我們是不是也能夠朝這個目標前進?\n\n04:31.761 --> 04:35.703\n是謝謝委員好簡單的來講我們現在就是為什麼只有三天那最主要我們要配合國防部因為國防部他還是以戰訓本務為主所以我們目前只能夠三天那我現在已經從300人一年300人增加到450人好那我們會持續再去跟國防部來協商那當然最重要我們的職埃的一個重返職場上面的一個成效呢我們不斷的一樣我們是站在\n\n04:59.695 --> 05:13.018\n官兵的一個需求其實我們的目標希望他在軍中所學能夠就是順利運用到退後的職場所以在過去一段時間我們也跟國防部在希望能夠盤點他在軍中的職能的發展能夠跟民間職場能夠對接讓他在軍中的一個所學順利再回到職場上面人力資源再繼續發揮\n\n05:24.420 --> 05:29.584\n目前其實當然國防部他有一些困難還是以戰訓本務的問題還有一些預算的問題那我們其實都有不斷在跟他們協商希望我們至少現在還沒有做這個軍職職能的對接民間職場的一個對接之前那我們這邊就有職癌的適性憑良職癌之商來協助他們退了以後然後讓他盤點他適合從事哪個方業我給他就學執訓就業這樣子的一個建議\n\n05:54.324 --> 06:14.999\n我們現在已經在持續的努力當中好那就希望是跟國防部多談因為畢竟這個是跟國防部要互相協作的那我們在跟國防部溝通的時候也是因為國防部現在有時候有些官兵他們的業務量也實在太大了他能夠把這個拿掉然後做一些更適性的一些發展我相信這個陳永康委員他也有一整套的計畫就是說我們要怎麼讓他訓練到真的有用的東西\n\n06:17.521 --> 06:37.949\n以及這些東西能不能夠讓他協助跟民間銜接那國防部那一方面在改的時候希望退輔會也是可以多跟他們討論那為什麼我會提到這一點也是因為上次我們有提到這一個退休的軍官他們常常會被中國接觸然後接觸了之後又再接觸現役的軍人那這個部分他成為中間人的時候其實會有很多的問題嘛\n\n06:38.949 --> 07:05.090\n那時候我們在討論修法的時候也是因為這個修法不只是要動到退輔會相關的它其實最主要也是要動到現在的官兵所以我們在剛好是上個禮拜還是上上禮拜的時候國防部也有來跟我們討論這樣的一個法案就是說如果這個東西真的要修比如說它今天違反反滲透法或者承認相關的法令它今天這個退休縫可能是會遭受到限制以外更重要的事情是它其實應該一體的讓現役軍人也能夠用\n\n07:08.112 --> 07:36.634\n所以這方面的草案呢我們是兩個都送出去了我們不是只有針對退休的我們是整體的現役的我們也送出相關的草案然後退休的我們也送出相關的草案讓他可以一體適用所以呢但是因為像在討論這些法案的同時說真的蠻需要兩邊互相協調的所以呢希望說在之後呢我們在應該還會再動一些相關的法令但可能已經跟懲罰無關反而是跟就業等等有關的他需要兩邊的協調嗎那希望我們在座的時候呢我們不只是跟退輔會溝通\n\n07:37.555 --> 08:03.696\n國防部在同時間也可以一起來那這樣的話呢我們在討論相關要怎麼去做體制上的跟制度上的改變的時候一定會變得比較容易齁那也在這邊跟主委報告一下好的謝謝那這個這個我們不好意思講掉了這樣應該OK齁所以呢那就先這個樣子齁這是我們提出的跟國安法相關的修正那退輔的條例那邊的我們也已經送出來了那但是畢竟只是送出去而已之後可能還要進入到這邊要逐條啊等等之類的\n\n08:04.396 --> 08:12.484\n希望你們對於這些法條有什麼意見的話能夠提早做準備然後我們就可以在除條的時候再來看到底要做什麼一些細部的微調\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.592,"end":1.477,"text":"謝謝主席 有請主委"},{"start":10.638,"end":33.516,"text":"主委早安主委早好 那個時間因素我今天就迅速謝謝毛委員剛剛臨時跟我調換順序那第一個就是我想問一下就是跟這一個容家床位有關的因為這一個目前我們看到這一個16個容家那這個他想在新聞裡面有講到尤其是彰化容家現在已經出現滿床的一個現象"},{"start":34.216,"end":34.896,"text":"主委講到15%目前我們達到16.48%開放1448床"},{"start":63.812,"end":65.133,"text":"為什麼這樣問 最主要也是因為之前他就說這個互併比"},{"start":83.662,"end":102.552,"text":"雖然我們現在是希望能夠像剛剛講的讓一般的也可以來做使用但因為這個互併筆在高雄台北跟台中榮總之類這個互併筆看起來好像還是被認為說這個互併筆有點不太合乎常理那不知道這一個方面有沒有可能有一些目前改善的方向"},{"start":104.469,"end":128.423,"text":"因為這畢竟已經一陣子了嘛所以我們想要知道現在的報告委員我是九一保健處處長詹仁義有關於護病比我們就是配合國家的政策那因為人力的關係確實是有困難那現在目前我們是三班的護病比全日都已經有符合標準但是有關於尤其是夜班現在也是說積極在招募人員在努力當中都配合國家的政策"},{"start":129.323,"end":152.015,"text":"希望就是說這邊我寫的就是希望退輔會能夠積極幫忙因為畢竟說真的現在大家這個不管是我們之前在國防部的時候現在發現也有很多的一些軍官他們壓力也是過大業務過度繁重那一樣的在這個醫院也會有一模一樣的問題如果退輔會能夠幫他們做一些協助的話希望是能夠幫他們改善一下不然的話以工作時長來講說真的可能會有壓力過大的問題"},{"start":153.315,"end":179.037,"text":"那接下來我想問一下這上次我追問的就是質押探索的部分那我不問滿我先往下就是因為之前有提到這個自辦訓練啊委外訓練啊等等的一個狀況那上次因為我有先直接有問你們會面以後在辦公室裡面有問就是關於這個質押探索這個部分因為我看到他有15個場次450人我想先問一下質押探索他是一定要參加的還是是說就是他自願參加"},{"start":180.902,"end":184.907,"text":"執照探索營是由軍方報名篩選相關人員以後提供給本會做三天兩夜的執照探索營"},{"start":196.5,"end":213.359,"text":"因為我個人認為,因為我之前也有問過會內,就是我覺得指教探索員的幫助應該會蠻大的。那為什麼會這樣子講呢?是因為他越了解這個市場,他也越早能夠做準備。因為我們很多時候是,譬如說在軍中裡面他有各式各樣的技能,那當然現在技能到底能不能夠先接社會這個我待會再說。"},{"start":214.4,"end":237.733,"text":"但是現在就是說他即使有這個技能他不知道應用在哪裡所以不知道有沒有可能讓我知道質押探索可能這樣聽起來要花費的預算應該也會是蠻多的但是顯然質押探索贏的如果他是幫助比較大的是不是可能有一些不管是問卷等等之類的讓譬如說我們知道他的效能有多高那這方面如果能夠去爭取更多的預算的話我覺得反而是重要的"},{"start":238.453,"end":267.733,"text":"是希望說在接下來因為我們下個會期要進入預算會期了就這一個方面我覺得質押探索應該是一個重點是不是可以去討論它的成效如何是那另外一個就是這邊我寫到的就是因為在這一個我看到這個重返職場這一個部分澳洲的部分它有強制參加是三天那美國不是強制參加但它時程比較長那但是現在問題就是說因為我看美國的數據他說它有80%他們在軍中學的可以直接做銜接"},{"start":269.078,"end":270.952,"text":"我們是不是也能夠朝這個目標前進?"},{"start":271.761,"end":275.703,"text":"是謝謝委員好簡單的來講我們現在就是為什麼只有三天那最主要我們要配合國防部因為國防部他還是以戰訓本務為主所以我們目前只能夠三天那我現在已經從300人一年300人增加到450人好那我們會持續再去跟國防部來協商那當然最重要我們的職埃的一個重返職場上面的一個成效呢我們不斷的一樣我們是站在"},{"start":299.695,"end":313.018,"text":"官兵的一個需求其實我們的目標希望他在軍中所學能夠就是順利運用到退後的職場所以在過去一段時間我們也跟國防部在希望能夠盤點他在軍中的職能的發展能夠跟民間職場能夠對接讓他在軍中的一個所學順利再回到職場上面人力資源再繼續發揮"},{"start":324.42,"end":329.584,"text":"目前其實當然國防部他有一些困難還是以戰訓本務的問題還有一些預算的問題那我們其實都有不斷在跟他們協商希望我們至少現在還沒有做這個軍職職能的對接民間職場的一個對接之前那我們這邊就有職癌的適性憑良職癌之商來協助他們退了以後然後讓他盤點他適合從事哪個方業我給他就學執訓就業這樣子的一個建議"},{"start":354.324,"end":374.999,"text":"我們現在已經在持續的努力當中好 那就希望是跟國防部多談因為畢竟這個是跟國防部要互相協作的那我們在跟國防部溝通的時候也是因為國防部現在有時候有些官兵他們的業務量也實在太大了他能夠把這個拿掉然後做一些更適性的一些發展我相信這個陳永康委員他也有一整套的計畫就是說我們要怎麼讓他訓練到真的有用的東西"},{"start":377.521,"end":397.949,"text":"以及這些東西能不能夠讓他協助跟民間銜接那國防部那一方面在改的時候希望退輔會也是可以多跟他們討論那為什麼我會提到這一點也是因為上次我們有提到這一個退休的軍官他們常常會被中國接觸然後接觸了之後又再接觸現役的軍人那這個部分他成為中間人的時候其實會有很多的問題嘛"},{"start":398.949,"end":425.09,"text":"那時候我們在討論修法的時候也是因為這個修法不只是要動到退輔會相關的它其實最主要也是要動到現在的官兵所以我們在剛好是上個禮拜還是上上禮拜的時候國防部也有來跟我們討論這樣的一個法案就是說如果這個東西真的要修比如說它今天違反反滲透法或者承認相關的法令它今天這個退休縫可能是會遭受到限制以外更重要的事情是它其實應該一體的讓現役軍人也能夠用"},{"start":428.112,"end":456.634,"text":"所以這方面的草案呢我們是兩個都送出去了我們不是只有針對退休的我們是整體的現役的我們也送出相關的草案然後退休的我們也送出相關的草案讓他可以一體適用所以呢但是因為像在討論這些法案的同時說真的蠻需要兩邊互相協調的所以呢希望說在之後呢我們在應該還會再動一些相關的法令但可能已經跟懲罰無關反而是跟就業等等有關的他需要兩邊的協調嗎那希望我們在座的時候呢我們不只是跟退輔會溝通"},{"start":457.555,"end":483.696,"text":"國防部在同時間也可以一起來那這樣的話呢我們在討論相關要怎麼去做體制上的跟制度上的改變的時候一定會變得比較容易齁那也在這邊跟主委報告一下好的謝謝那這個這個我們不好意思講掉了這樣應該OK齁所以呢那就先這個樣子齁這是我們提出的跟國安法相關的修正那退輔的條例那邊的我們也已經送出來了那但是畢竟只是送出去而已之後可能還要進入到這邊要逐條啊等等之類的"},{"start":484.396,"end":492.484,"text":"希望你們對於這些法條有什麼意見的話能夠提早做準備然後我們就可以在除條的時候再來看到底要做什麼一些細部的微調"}]}}}}