{"id":151827,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151827","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e90f54132b1096e63b9ff3fd59821a1612d28fff7690636534e2527b10508eeeaa4188f185dccfdb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林思銘","委員發言時間":"10:15:01 - 10:26:03","影片長度":"00:11:02","會議時間":"2024-04-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：審查委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「監察院組織法第三條之一及第三條之二條文修正草案」案。）","date":"2024-04-29","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":18,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-18"},"duration":662,"end_time":"2024-04-29T10:26:03+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-29T10:15:01+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":519,"blocks":[["林委員思銘：（10時15分）謝謝主席，請秘書長。"],["主席：請秘書長。"],["李秘書長俊俋：林委員好。"],["林委員思銘：秘書長好。秘書長，我接續剛剛羅智強委員的質詢，憲法增修條文第七條第五項規定得非常清楚，監察委員必須超出黨派以外，依據法律獨立行使職權。"],["李秘書長俊俋：是。"],["林委員思銘：但是剛剛提到的那位監委高涌誠，我們看看他最近或者包含過去具有非常濃烈、濃厚政治色彩相關的言行及發言，我想就教秘書長。譬如高涌誠監委利用職權進行政治打壓，在卡管案期間調查臺大前校長管中閔；在新竹市前市長林智堅的論文案裡面，他調查了當時抄襲的對象調查官余正煌；在段宜康曲棍球案，在檢察官不起訴他所指涉的林滄敏前立委之後，他竟然彈劾檢察官陳隆翔。我們也再看看過去陳師孟這位監委，他在開始上任監委的時候表示，他要調查辦綠不辦藍的司法官，種種的言行顯示政治色彩非常地濃厚，完全違背憲法增修條文第七條第五項所規定的「監察委員須超出黨派以外，依據法律獨立行使職權」。針對這些荒腔走板的言行舉止，秘書長，您認為這位高涌誠委員相關的言行舉止有沒有違反監察委員職權行使的相關規範？"],["李秘書長俊俋：我跟林委員報告，如果是按您列出來的案子，這些都是經過正當的程序來查，至於委員要查什麼案，委員本來就獨立行使職權，我們沒有權干涉。"],["林委員思銘：秘書長，我想您在袒護他啦……"],["李秘書長俊俋：我沒有在袒護啊……"],["林委員思銘：真的……"],["李秘書長俊俋：委員要查什麼案，我們做幕僚的本來就沒有權干涉。"],["林委員思銘：站在監察院秘書長的高度、位子上面，如果你們的監委完全違背他的職權行使規範，你今天在這邊答詢還袒護他，說是經過委員大家共同討論才來決定這個案子，但是……"],["李秘書長俊俋：如果是您列的這4個案子，確實是委員都討論過了。"],["林委員思銘：但是是他提案的，是高涌誠委員提案的。"],["李秘書長俊俋：是他提案的，委員要提什麼案，我們做幕僚的本來就不能干涉。"],["林委員思銘：是沒有錯，你們不能干涉，但是事後來檢視，他這些行為完全違反監察委員職權行使的相關規範，您認為監察院要如何自律？"],["李秘書長俊俋：如果有證實他違反相關規範的話，我們會有紀律委員會，但是就這4個案，我告訴委員的是，這4個案確實是依照我們監察院的程序來處理的。"],["林委員思銘：秘書長，社會的觀感非常不好，我在這邊還是要呼籲……"],["李秘書長俊俋：不是觀感不觀感的問題，而是有沒有照程序來做。"],["林委員思銘：秘書長，您還是要去正視委員這些荒腔走板的職務行使，社會上普遍譁然，怎麼有這樣的……"],["李秘書長俊俋：監察委員獨立行使職權，跟立法委員一樣啊。"],["林委員思銘：對呀，獨立行使職權，行使出來的是這樣荒腔走板，站在監察院秘書長的位子上面、高度上面，你不用去約束他嗎？"],["李秘書長俊俋：我沒有辦法約束他。"],["林委員思銘：您客氣了。"],["李秘書長俊俋：我是幕僚長，我沒有辦法約束他，他們獨立行使職權。"],["林委員思銘：您客氣了，您是幕僚長，但是大家心知肚明您有沒有權限告訴這位監委要去約束自己的言行舉止。","我們再來看他對廢死議題的發言。高涌誠監委說，透過憲法法庭來廢除死刑，是司法權針對死刑制度進行實質審查，真實體現「司法獨立的存在價值正在於反抗多數」的精神。秘書長，您是法學博士，您同意這句話嗎？所謂的司法獨立存在的價值正在於反抗多數，您贊成嗎？這句話您贊成嗎？"],["李秘書長俊俋：我跟林委員報告，第一個我不是念法律的，我是念政治學的；第二個部分，國家人權委員會被司法院憲法法庭指定為鑑定機關，國家人權委員會的立場表達得非常清楚，國家應廢除死刑，保障生命權及人性尊嚴，並修復犯罪創傷保護被害人正義，這個才是我們真正的重點所在。"],["林委員思銘：是，所以我現在講，一個監委對司法獨立的精神，他講他的價值在於反抗多數，秘書長我想您對法律也有涉獵啦，您父親也是非常有名的法律學者。這句話以你站在一個政治學博士的角度來看，對嗎？"],["李秘書長俊俋：每個人都有他不同的看法。"],["林委員思銘：司法存在的價值在於反抗多數啊？"],["李秘書長俊俋：4月23號針對這個部分有很多的討論，每個人都有不同的見解，這個就是憲法法庭為什麼要廣邀各界做不同的見解答辯……"],["林委員思銘：秘書長，我簡單問你好了，司法獨立，何謂司法獨立？依照你個人的瞭解，簡單回答。"],["李秘書長俊俋：就是不受黨派約束、不受其他的約束，自行依照法律來做自我的判斷。"],["林委員思銘：我想其實司法獨立重要的精髓，就是法官他在做判決的時候、在做審判的時候，不受任何外力的干涉及影響嘛！"],["李秘書長俊俋：是，我同意。"],["林委員思銘：他本身是律師欸，他怎麼會講司法獨立的存在價值在於反抗多數？法官可以反抗多數喔？法官本於他對法律的認知，以及實現正義這樣子的理念，去做出司法獨立的裁判，不受外力任何的干涉，怎麼會把它影射到、牽涉到司法獨立存在的價值在於反抗多數？我想這個真的是荒腔走板的發言啦！一個監察委員會做出這樣子的言論，秘書長認為他這樣的說法，你接受嗎？你接受嗎？真的，你接受嗎？"],["李秘書長俊俋：我再一次跟林委員報告，高涌誠委員這一次是代表國家人權委員會去憲法法庭的，不是代表監察院，這個要分清楚。"],["林委員思銘：是。"],["李秘書長俊俋：國家人權委員會本來就不是我幕僚長管轄的範疇，我們只負責它的人事跟預算。"],["林委員思銘：秘書長，你是一直在就他相關的法定職權在做區分，其實我想要表達的是說，畢竟他是監察委員，他也因為是監察委員才可以……"],["李秘書長俊俋：他是以人權委員的身分去的。"],["林委員思銘：他因為本身是監察委員，他才可以擔任人權委員會的委員嘛！"],["李秘書長俊俋：對，並兼。"],["林委員思銘：所以這種雙重角色之下，他代表人權委員會去做這樣完全違背司法獨立價值的發言，這種監委還有存在的必要嗎？"],["李秘書長俊俋：你抽出那個content看起來當然就會很奇怪，你如果放在那個content裡面，其實當天在表達的詹森林大法官問的問題是說，現在的民意確實主張有死刑的比較多數，但是不是一定要尊重多數的民意，這個是詹森林大法官的意見，包括法務部、包括人權委員會，都有對這個做答復。"],["林委員思銘：是，秘書長，所以詹森林大法官，我想外界也對他多所批評，我們相關的學者對於學術的一個看法，有些我們會覺得他真的是對學術有一個傲慢，他認為他的學術看法是對的，其實不然耶！任何政策的擬定都要順從民意嘛！在我們現在的實定法裡面，就有死刑這樣一個相關的規定嘛，所以大法官要去瞭解現在民意的走向是如何，為什麼我們當初刑法要有死刑這樣子的立法，還有我們現在立法政策是怎麼樣，立法政策難道不用考量我們的民意嗎？要不要？我想您當過立法委員，對不對？"],["李秘書長俊俋：這個我沒有意見。"],["林委員思銘：您沒意見嘛，所以我們在擬定相關政策，就是要對相關的民意做調查，才擬定相關的政策嘛！這麼高的民意認為廢死不可行，一個大法官好像基於他的最高地位，他是太上皇，他解釋的就是真理，用這樣的態度去講為何一定要順從民意，我想這離民意太遠了啦！"],["李秘書長俊俋：這就是憲法法庭為什麼要公開討論的必要性。"],["林委員思銘：所以我才會講到監委高涌誠又附和他去講這樣子的話，司法獨立的存在價值在於反抗多數，反抗多數的民意，跟民意對幹啦！秘書長是這樣嗎？對吧？"],["李秘書長俊俋：林委員，我沒有辦法對每一個人講的每一句話……"],["林委員思銘：所以我們還是希望監察院對於相關監察委員的言行舉止，不管是公開的或私下的，秘書長您都有這個責任去告訴他們、去約束他們，做監察委員要有一個監察委員的樣子啦！你看以前你也主張監察院要廢掉，為什麼你會有這樣的主張？就是你也看不慣有些監察委員相關的言行舉止，真的叫做離譜至極啦！完全沒有尊重自己監委的角色啦！我還是衷心的期盼，您現在貴為秘書長，真的要多多地去跟這些監察委員做出正確的建議啦！"],["李秘書長俊俋：我會把林委員的意見轉達。"],["林委員思銘：好，以上，謝謝。"],["李秘書長俊俋：謝謝。"],["主席：接著請邱志偉委員發言，邱志偉委員，邱志偉委員不在場。下一位請吳宗憲委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":386,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-18","speakers":["吳宗憲","徐巧芯","黃國昌","沈發惠","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","陳俊宇","羅智強","林思銘","黃建賓","牛煦庭","吳思瑤","柯建銘","傅崐萁","翁曉玲","王鴻薇"],"page_start":335,"meetingDate":["2024-04-29"],"gazette_id":"1133501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133501_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「監察院組織法第三條之一及第三條之二條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133501_00017"}},"transcript":{"id":"151827","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151827","tool":"pyannote","id":"151827-pyannote"},"job_id":"fRH8GftQSBhRKoI3","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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{\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 393.247, \"end\": 393.407, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"身\", \"start\": 393.407, \"end\": 393.607, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 393.607, \"end\": 393.747, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"律\", \"start\": 393.747, \"end\": 394.768, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"師\"}, {\"word\": \"欸\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 394.768, \"end\": 394.929, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 394.929, \"end\": 395.529, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"司\", \"start\": 395.529, \"end\": 395.749, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 395.749, \"end\": 396.11, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"獨\"}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 396.11, \"end\": 396.27, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 396.27, \"end\": 396.49, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"存\", \"start\": 396.49, \"end\": 396.69, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 396.69, \"end\": 397.231, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"價\"}, {\"word\": \"值\", \"start\": 397.231, \"end\": 397.751, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 397.751, \"end\": 397.911, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 397.911, \"end\": 398.152, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"反\", \"start\": 398.152, \"end\": 398.452, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"抗\", \"start\": 398.452, \"end\": 398.752, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 398.752, \"end\": 398.772, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"數\"}]}, {\"start\": 399.953, \"end\": 427.355, \"text\": \"法官可以反抗多數法官本於他的一個對法律的一個認知以及實現正義這樣子指的一個理念去做出司法獨立的一個裁判不受外力任何的干涉怎麼會去把它去把它影射到去把它牽涉到司法獨立存在的價值在於反抗多數我想這個真的是荒腔走板的發言一個監察委員會做出這樣子的一個言論\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 399.953, \"end\": 400.193, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"官\", \"start\": 400.193, \"end\": 400.394, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 400.394, \"end\": 400.514, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 400.514, \"end\": 400.654, \"score\": 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--> 00:00:35,740\n高永誠委員：立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員徐巧芯\n\n3\n00:00:51,158 --> 00:01:16,910\n譬如說江永誠監委他利用職權進行政治打壓在這個卡管案期間他調查台大前校長管中銘在新竹市這個前市長林志堅的論文案裡面他調查了當時他的抄襲的對象的調查官余政煌那麼在段宜康曲棍球案\n\n4\n00:01:17,930 --> 00:01:29,266\n竟然在檢察官不起訴了他所指涉的林昌敏前立委之後他竟然彈劾檢察官陳榮祥\n\n5\n00:01:31,345 --> 00:01:37,069\n過去陳思夢在上任監委開始表示要調查半綠不半藍的司法官\n\n6\n00:01:53,582 --> 00:02:06,476\n種種言行政治色彩非常濃厚,完全違背憲法正修條文第7條第5項所規定的,監察委員須超出黨派以外依據法律獨立行使職權。\n\n7\n00:02:08,018 --> 00:02:21,052\n所以針對這些荒腔左絆的這些嚴刑舉止秘書長您認為這位高永成委員他的相關的嚴刑舉止有沒有違反相關的你們監察委員的職權行使的規範\n\n8\n00:02:24,996 --> 00:02:38,346\n我跟您委員報告,如果這些案您列出來的,這個都是經過這個正當的程序來查那至於委員要查什麼案,委員本來就獨立行使職權,我們沒有權干涉民主黨,我想您這個在袒護,在袒護他\n\n9\n00:02:41,569 --> 00:03:00,908\n委員要查什麼案我們本來就沒有權干涉正在監察院秘書長的這樣的一個高度的位置上面如果你的監委完全違背他的職權的行使規範我想你今天在這邊答詢你還彈劾他說是經過這個委員大家共同討論才來決定這個案子\n\n10\n00:03:03,490 --> 00:03:26,705\n如果這四個案,您列了這四個案,確實是委員都討論過但是是他提案的嘛,是監察委員提案的那委員要提什麼案,我們本來就不能干涉是沒有錯,但是您不能干涉,但是事後來檢視他這些行為完全違反相關的監察委員的職權的一個規範那您認為監察院要如何做自律\n\n11\n00:03:28,137 --> 00:03:38,777\n如果有證實他違反相關規範的話我們會有紀律委員會嘛但是這幾個案這四個案我告訴委員的就是這四個案確實依照我們監察院的程序來處理的\n\n12\n00:03:40,647 --> 00:04:08,055\n民務長我還是要在這邊社會觀感非常不好還是要呼籲民務長您還是要去正視還是要去正視委員這些荒腔走板的這些職務的行使我想這個大家都覺得社會上普遍華人怎麼會有這樣的監察委員獨立行使職權跟立法委員一樣你獨立行使職權行使出來的是這樣荒腔走板\n\n13\n00:04:08,955 --> 00:04:33,095\n監察院在秘書長的位置上面高度上面你不用去約束他嗎我沒有辦法約束他您客氣了您是幕僚長但是我想大家心知肚明您有沒有權限去告訴這位監委您要去約束自己的原型舉止來我們再來看對Face議題他的發言\n\n14\n00:04:34,232 --> 00:04:47,905\n高永誠監委說,透過憲法法庭來廢除死刑,施司法權針對死刑制度進行實質審查,整體實現司法獨立的存在價值,正在於反抗多數的精神。所謂的司法獨立存在的價值,正在於反抗多數。\n\n15\n00:04:59,984 --> 00:05:25,812\n您贊成嗎?這句話你贊成嗎?我跟林委員報告第一個我不是念法律的我是念政治學的那第二個部分這個國家人權委員會被司法院憲法法庭指定為鑒定機關那以國家人權委員會的立場表達得非常清楚國家應廢除死刑保障生命權及人性尊嚴並修護犯罪創傷人保護與被害人的正義這個才是我們真正的重點所在\n\n16\n00:05:26,312 --> 00:05:55,078\n所以我現在想說一個監委對司法獨立的精神他講說他的價值在於反抗多數部長我想您對法律也有涉獵啦您父親也是非常有名的法律學者是這樣這句話以你站在一個政治學的一個博士的一個角度你來看對嗎反抗司法存在的價值在於反抗多數啊\n\n17\n00:05:56,036 --> 00:06:13,489\n4月23號有對針對這個部分有很多的討論每個人都有不同的見解這個就是憲法法庭為什麼要搖各界做不同的事情我簡單問你好了司法獨立何謂司法獨立依照你個人的了解你簡單回答\n\n18\n00:06:13,789 --> 00:06:38,772\n就是不受黨派的約束不受其他的約束自行來依照法律來做自我的判斷我想其實司法獨立的重要的精髓就是說法官他在做判決的時候或在做審判的時候不受任何外力的干涉及影響嘛我同意所以跟他現在他講說他本身是律師欸他怎麼會講說司法獨立的存在價值在於反抗多數\n\n19\n00:06:39,953 --> 00:07:07,355\n法官可以反抗多數法官本於他的一個對法律的一個認知以及實現正義這樣子指的一個理念去做出司法獨立的一個裁判不受外力任何的干涉怎麼會去把它去把它影射到去把它牽涉到司法獨立存在的價值在於反抗多數我想這個真的是荒腔走板的發言一個監察委員會做出這樣子的一個言論\n\n20\n00:07:08,988 --> 00:07:29,964\n民主黨你認為他這樣的說法你接受嗎?你接受嗎?真的你接受嗎?我再一次跟林委員報告高雄城委員這一次是代表國家人權委員會去憲法法庭的不是代表監察院這個要分清楚那國家人權委員會本來就不是我幕僚長管轄的範疇我們只負責他的人事跟預算\n\n21\n00:07:30,785 --> 00:07:52,198\n委員長當然您是一直在就相關的他的法定職權您在做區分其實我想要表達的是說畢竟他是監察委員他也因為監察委員他才可以擔任他因為本身是監察委員他才可以擔任這個人權委員會的這個委員嘛所以這種雙重角色之下他去\n\n22\n00:07:53,817 --> 00:08:04,016\n去代表人權委員會去做這樣的一個完全違背司法獨立價值的一個發言這種監委還有存在的必要嗎?\n\n23\n00:08:04,775 --> 00:08:34,218\n你抽出那個content看起來就當然會很奇怪那你如果放在那個content裡面其實當天在表達的詹森林大法官問的問題就是說現在的民意確實主張有死刑的比較多數但是是不是一定要這個尊重這個多數的民意這個是詹森林大法官的意見那包括法務部包括人權委員會都有對這個做答覆所以不管詹森林大法官也好我想外界也對他多所批評\n\n24\n00:08:35,694 --> 00:08:56,712\n我想我們相關的學者對於學術的一個他的一個看法有些我們會覺得說他真的是對學術的有一個傲慢他認為他的學術看法就對的其實不然認為政策的擬定都要順從民意在我們現在實定法裡面就有死刑這樣的一個相關的規定\n\n25\n00:08:57,933 --> 00:09:25,939\n所以你大法官你要去了解說現在民意的走向是怎樣為什麼我們當初刑法要有死刑這樣子的一個立法還有我們現在立法政策是怎麼樣立法政策難道不用考量我們的民意嗎要不要我想您當過民意的立法委員所以我們在擬定相關政策的時候您沒意見嘛就是說要去對相關民意要做調查才擬定相關的政策嘛這麼高的民意\n\n26\n00:09:27,250 --> 00:09:28,892\n法定人數不足\n\n27\n00:09:41,044 --> 00:09:59,771\n去講說這個為何一定要順從民意我想這離民意太遠了啦所以我才會講到說監委高永成又附和他去講這樣子的一個話司法獨立的存在價值在於反抗多數反抗多數的民意跟民意對幹\n\n28\n00:10:01,823 --> 00:10:26,494\n李委員我沒有辦法對每一個人講的每一句話所以嘛所以我在想說我們還是希望監察院對於相關的監察委員的原型舉止在這個不管是公開的啦或私下的啦李署長您都有這個責任去告訴他們去約束他們做監察委員要有個監察委員的一個樣子啦\n\n29\n00:10:27,517 --> 00:10:28,317\n我還是衷心的期盼\n\n30\n00:10:48,243 --> 00:10:58,852\n您現在貴為秘書長真的要多多的去跟這些監察委員做出正確的一個建議我會把林委員的意見做好以上好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10974\t32379\t謝謝主席請秘書長好請秘書長林委員好是秘書長好秘書長我想我接續剛剛羅志強委員的一個諮詢我想憲法徵修條文第7條第5項規定的非常清楚我們監察委員必須超出黨派以外來依據法律獨立行使職權是\n33439\t35740\t高永誠委員：立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員徐巧芯\n51158\t76910\t譬如說江永誠監委他利用職權進行政治打壓在這個卡管案期間他調查台大前校長管中銘在新竹市這個前市長林志堅的論文案裡面他調查了當時他的抄襲的對象的調查官余政煌那麼在段宜康曲棍球案\n77930\t89266\t竟然在檢察官不起訴了他所指涉的林昌敏前立委之後他竟然彈劾檢察官陳榮祥\n91345\t97069\t過去陳思夢在上任監委開始表示要調查半綠不半藍的司法官\n113582\t126476\t種種言行政治色彩非常濃厚,完全違背憲法正修條文第7條第5項所規定的,監察委員須超出黨派以外依據法律獨立行使職權。\n128018\t141052\t所以針對這些荒腔左絆的這些嚴刑舉止秘書長您認為這位高永成委員他的相關的嚴刑舉止有沒有違反相關的你們監察委員的職權行使的規範\n144996\t158346\t我跟您委員報告,如果這些案您列出來的,這個都是經過這個正當的程序來查那至於委員要查什麼案,委員本來就獨立行使職權,我們沒有權干涉民主黨,我想您這個在袒護,在袒護他\n161569\t180908\t委員要查什麼案我們本來就沒有權干涉正在監察院秘書長的這樣的一個高度的位置上面如果你的監委完全違背他的職權的行使規範我想你今天在這邊答詢你還彈劾他說是經過這個委員大家共同討論才來決定這個案子\n183490\t206705\t如果這四個案,您列了這四個案,確實是委員都討論過但是是他提案的嘛,是監察委員提案的那委員要提什麼案,我們本來就不能干涉是沒有錯,但是您不能干涉,但是事後來檢視他這些行為完全違反相關的監察委員的職權的一個規範那您認為監察院要如何做自律\n208137\t218777\t如果有證實他違反相關規範的話我們會有紀律委員會嘛但是這幾個案這四個案我告訴委員的就是這四個案確實依照我們監察院的程序來處理的\n220647\t248055\t民務長我還是要在這邊社會觀感非常不好還是要呼籲民務長您還是要去正視還是要去正視委員這些荒腔走板的這些職務的行使我想這個大家都覺得社會上普遍華人怎麼會有這樣的監察委員獨立行使職權跟立法委員一樣你獨立行使職權行使出來的是這樣荒腔走板\n248955\t273095\t監察院在秘書長的位置上面高度上面你不用去約束他嗎我沒有辦法約束他您客氣了您是幕僚長但是我想大家心知肚明您有沒有權限去告訴這位監委您要去約束自己的原型舉止來我們再來看對Face議題他的發言\n274232\t287905\t高永誠監委說,透過憲法法庭來廢除死刑,施司法權針對死刑制度進行實質審查,整體實現司法獨立的存在價值,正在於反抗多數的精神。所謂的司法獨立存在的價值,正在於反抗多數。\n299984\t325812\t您贊成嗎?這句話你贊成嗎?我跟林委員報告第一個我不是念法律的我是念政治學的那第二個部分這個國家人權委員會被司法院憲法法庭指定為鑒定機關那以國家人權委員會的立場表達得非常清楚國家應廢除死刑保障生命權及人性尊嚴並修護犯罪創傷人保護與被害人的正義這個才是我們真正的重點所在\n326312\t355078\t所以我現在想說一個監委對司法獨立的精神他講說他的價值在於反抗多數部長我想您對法律也有涉獵啦您父親也是非常有名的法律學者是這樣這句話以你站在一個政治學的一個博士的一個角度你來看對嗎反抗司法存在的價值在於反抗多數啊\n356036\t373489\t4月23號有對針對這個部分有很多的討論每個人都有不同的見解這個就是憲法法庭為什麼要搖各界做不同的事情我簡單問你好了 司法獨立何謂司法獨立依照你個人的了解你簡單回答\n373789\t398772\t就是不受黨派的約束不受其他的約束自行來依照法律來做自我的判斷我想其實司法獨立的重要的精髓就是說法官他在做判決的時候或在做審判的時候不受任何外力的干涉及影響嘛我同意所以跟他現在他講說他本身是律師欸他怎麼會講說司法獨立的存在價值在於反抗多數\n399953\t427355\t法官可以反抗多數法官本於他的一個對法律的一個認知以及實現正義這樣子指的一個理念去做出司法獨立的一個裁判不受外力任何的干涉怎麼會去把它去把它影射到去把它牽涉到司法獨立存在的價值在於反抗多數我想這個真的是荒腔走板的發言一個監察委員會做出這樣子的一個言論\n428988\t449964\t民主黨你認為他這樣的說法你接受嗎?你接受嗎?真的你接受嗎?我再一次跟林委員報告高雄城委員這一次是代表國家人權委員會去憲法法庭的不是代表監察院這個要分清楚那國家人權委員會本來就不是我幕僚長管轄的範疇我們只負責他的人事跟預算\n450785\t472198\t委員長當然您是一直在就相關的他的法定職權您在做區分其實我想要表達的是說畢竟他是監察委員他也因為監察委員他才可以擔任他因為本身是監察委員他才可以擔任這個人權委員會的這個委員嘛所以這種雙重角色之下他去\n473817\t484016\t去代表人權委員會去做這樣的一個完全違背司法獨立價值的一個發言這種監委還有存在的必要嗎?\n484775\t514218\t你抽出那個content看起來就當然會很奇怪那你如果放在那個content裡面其實當天在表達的詹森林大法官問的問題就是說現在的民意確實主張有死刑的比較多數但是是不是一定要這個尊重這個多數的民意這個是詹森林大法官的意見那包括法務部包括人權委員會都有對這個做答覆所以不管詹森林大法官也好我想外界也對他多所批評\n515694\t536712\t我想我們相關的學者對於學術的一個他的一個看法有些我們會覺得說他真的是對學術的有一個傲慢他認為他的學術看法就對的其實不然認為政策的擬定都要順從民意在我們現在實定法裡面就有死刑這樣的一個相關的規定\n537933\t565939\t所以你大法官你要去了解說現在民意的走向是怎樣為什麼我們當初刑法要有死刑這樣子的一個立法還有我們現在立法政策是怎麼樣立法政策難道不用考量我們的民意嗎要不要我想您當過民意的立法委員所以我們在擬定相關政策的時候您沒意見嘛就是說要去對相關民意要做調查才擬定相關的政策嘛這麼高的民意\n567250\t568892\t法定人數不足\n581044\t599771\t去講說這個為何一定要順從民意我想這離民意太遠了啦所以我才會講到說監委高永成又附和他去講這樣子的一個話司法獨立的存在價值在於反抗多數反抗多數的民意跟民意對幹\n601823\t626494\t李委員我沒有辦法對每一個人講的每一句話所以嘛所以我在想說我們還是希望監察院對於相關的監察委員的原型舉止在這個不管是公開的啦或私下的啦李署長您都有這個責任去告訴他們去約束他們做監察委員要有個監察委員的一個樣子啦\n627517\t628317\t我還是衷心的期盼\n648243\t658852\t您現在貴為秘書長真的要多多的去跟這些監察委員做出正確的一個建議我會把林委員的意見做好以上好謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席請秘書長好請秘書長林委員好是秘書長好秘書長我想我接續剛剛羅志強委員的一個諮詢我想憲法徵修條文第7條第5項規定的非常清楚我們監察委員必須超出黨派以外來依據法律獨立行使職權是\n高永誠委員：立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員徐巧芯\n譬如說江永誠監委他利用職權進行政治打壓在這個卡管案期間他調查台大前校長管中銘在新竹市這個前市長林志堅的論文案裡面他調查了當時他的抄襲的對象的調查官余政煌那麼在段宜康曲棍球案\n竟然在檢察官不起訴了他所指涉的林昌敏前立委之後他竟然彈劾檢察官陳榮祥\n過去陳思夢在上任監委開始表示要調查半綠不半藍的司法官\n種種言行政治色彩非常濃厚,完全違背憲法正修條文第7條第5項所規定的,監察委員須超出黨派以外依據法律獨立行使職權。\n所以針對這些荒腔左絆的這些嚴刑舉止秘書長您認為這位高永成委員他的相關的嚴刑舉止有沒有違反相關的你們監察委員的職權行使的規範\n我跟您委員報告,如果這些案您列出來的,這個都是經過這個正當的程序來查那至於委員要查什麼案,委員本來就獨立行使職權,我們沒有權干涉民主黨,我想您這個在袒護,在袒護他\n委員要查什麼案我們本來就沒有權干涉正在監察院秘書長的這樣的一個高度的位置上面如果你的監委完全違背他的職權的行使規範我想你今天在這邊答詢你還彈劾他說是經過這個委員大家共同討論才來決定這個案子\n如果這四個案,您列了這四個案,確實是委員都討論過但是是他提案的嘛,是監察委員提案的那委員要提什麼案,我們本來就不能干涉是沒有錯,但是您不能干涉,但是事後來檢視他這些行為完全違反相關的監察委員的職權的一個規範那您認為監察院要如何做自律\n如果有證實他違反相關規範的話我們會有紀律委員會嘛但是這幾個案這四個案我告訴委員的就是這四個案確實依照我們監察院的程序來處理的\n民務長我還是要在這邊社會觀感非常不好還是要呼籲民務長您還是要去正視還是要去正視委員這些荒腔走板的這些職務的行使我想這個大家都覺得社會上普遍華人怎麼會有這樣的監察委員獨立行使職權跟立法委員一樣你獨立行使職權行使出來的是這樣荒腔走板\n監察院在秘書長的位置上面高度上面你不用去約束他嗎我沒有辦法約束他您客氣了您是幕僚長但是我想大家心知肚明您有沒有權限去告訴這位監委您要去約束自己的原型舉止來我們再來看對Face議題他的發言\n高永誠監委說,透過憲法法庭來廢除死刑,施司法權針對死刑制度進行實質審查,整體實現司法獨立的存在價值,正在於反抗多數的精神。所謂的司法獨立存在的價值,正在於反抗多數。\n您贊成嗎?這句話你贊成嗎?我跟林委員報告第一個我不是念法律的我是念政治學的那第二個部分這個國家人權委員會被司法院憲法法庭指定為鑒定機關那以國家人權委員會的立場表達得非常清楚國家應廢除死刑保障生命權及人性尊嚴並修護犯罪創傷人保護與被害人的正義這個才是我們真正的重點所在\n所以我現在想說一個監委對司法獨立的精神他講說他的價值在於反抗多數部長我想您對法律也有涉獵啦您父親也是非常有名的法律學者是這樣這句話以你站在一個政治學的一個博士的一個角度你來看對嗎反抗司法存在的價值在於反抗多數啊\n4月23號有對針對這個部分有很多的討論每個人都有不同的見解這個就是憲法法庭為什麼要搖各界做不同的事情我簡單問你好了 司法獨立何謂司法獨立依照你個人的了解你簡單回答\n就是不受黨派的約束不受其他的約束自行來依照法律來做自我的判斷我想其實司法獨立的重要的精髓就是說法官他在做判決的時候或在做審判的時候不受任何外力的干涉及影響嘛我同意所以跟他現在他講說他本身是律師欸他怎麼會講說司法獨立的存在價值在於反抗多數\n法官可以反抗多數法官本於他的一個對法律的一個認知以及實現正義這樣子指的一個理念去做出司法獨立的一個裁判不受外力任何的干涉怎麼會去把它去把它影射到去把它牽涉到司法獨立存在的價值在於反抗多數我想這個真的是荒腔走板的發言一個監察委員會做出這樣子的一個言論\n民主黨你認為他這樣的說法你接受嗎?你接受嗎?真的你接受嗎?我再一次跟林委員報告高雄城委員這一次是代表國家人權委員會去憲法法庭的不是代表監察院這個要分清楚那國家人權委員會本來就不是我幕僚長管轄的範疇我們只負責他的人事跟預算\n委員長當然您是一直在就相關的他的法定職權您在做區分其實我想要表達的是說畢竟他是監察委員他也因為監察委員他才可以擔任他因為本身是監察委員他才可以擔任這個人權委員會的這個委員嘛所以這種雙重角色之下他去\n去代表人權委員會去做這樣的一個完全違背司法獨立價值的一個發言這種監委還有存在的必要嗎?\n你抽出那個content看起來就當然會很奇怪那你如果放在那個content裡面其實當天在表達的詹森林大法官問的問題就是說現在的民意確實主張有死刑的比較多數但是是不是一定要這個尊重這個多數的民意這個是詹森林大法官的意見那包括法務部包括人權委員會都有對這個做答覆所以不管詹森林大法官也好我想外界也對他多所批評\n我想我們相關的學者對於學術的一個他的一個看法有些我們會覺得說他真的是對學術的有一個傲慢他認為他的學術看法就對的其實不然認為政策的擬定都要順從民意在我們現在實定法裡面就有死刑這樣的一個相關的規定\n所以你大法官你要去了解說現在民意的走向是怎樣為什麼我們當初刑法要有死刑這樣子的一個立法還有我們現在立法政策是怎麼樣立法政策難道不用考量我們的民意嗎要不要我想您當過民意的立法委員所以我們在擬定相關政策的時候您沒意見嘛就是說要去對相關民意要做調查才擬定相關的政策嘛這麼高的民意\n法定人數不足\n去講說這個為何一定要順從民意我想這離民意太遠了啦所以我才會講到說監委高永成又附和他去講這樣子的一個話司法獨立的存在價值在於反抗多數反抗多數的民意跟民意對幹\n李委員我沒有辦法對每一個人講的每一句話所以嘛所以我在想說我們還是希望監察院對於相關的監察委員的原型舉止在這個不管是公開的啦或私下的啦李署長您都有這個責任去告訴他們去約束他們做監察委員要有個監察委員的一個樣子啦\n我還是衷心的期盼\n您現在貴為秘書長真的要多多的去跟這些監察委員做出正確的一個建議我會把林委員的意見做好以上好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.974 --> 00:32.379\n謝謝主席請秘書長好請秘書長林委員好是秘書長好秘書長我想我接續剛剛羅志強委員的一個諮詢我想憲法徵修條文第7條第5項規定的非常清楚我們監察委員必須超出黨派以外來依據法律獨立行使職權是\n\n00:33.439 --> 00:35.740\n高永誠委員：立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員徐巧芯\n\n00:51.158 --> 01:16.910\n譬如說江永誠監委他利用職權進行政治打壓在這個卡管案期間他調查台大前校長管中銘在新竹市這個前市長林志堅的論文案裡面他調查了當時他的抄襲的對象的調查官余政煌那麼在段宜康曲棍球案\n\n01:17.930 --> 01:29.266\n竟然在檢察官不起訴了他所指涉的林昌敏前立委之後他竟然彈劾檢察官陳榮祥\n\n01:31.345 --> 01:37.069\n過去陳思夢在上任監委開始表示要調查半綠不半藍的司法官\n\n01:53.582 --> 02:06.476\n種種言行政治色彩非常濃厚,完全違背憲法正修條文第7條第5項所規定的,監察委員須超出黨派以外依據法律獨立行使職權。\n\n02:08.018 --> 02:21.052\n所以針對這些荒腔左絆的這些嚴刑舉止秘書長您認為這位高永成委員他的相關的嚴刑舉止有沒有違反相關的你們監察委員的職權行使的規範\n\n02:24.996 --> 02:38.346\n我跟您委員報告,如果這些案您列出來的,這個都是經過這個正當的程序來查那至於委員要查什麼案,委員本來就獨立行使職權,我們沒有權干涉民主黨,我想您這個在袒護,在袒護他\n\n02:41.569 --> 03:00.908\n委員要查什麼案我們本來就沒有權干涉正在監察院秘書長的這樣的一個高度的位置上面如果你的監委完全違背他的職權的行使規範我想你今天在這邊答詢你還彈劾他說是經過這個委員大家共同討論才來決定這個案子\n\n03:03.490 --> 03:26.705\n如果這四個案,您列了這四個案,確實是委員都討論過但是是他提案的嘛,是監察委員提案的那委員要提什麼案,我們本來就不能干涉是沒有錯,但是您不能干涉,但是事後來檢視他這些行為完全違反相關的監察委員的職權的一個規範那您認為監察院要如何做自律\n\n03:28.137 --> 03:38.777\n如果有證實他違反相關規範的話我們會有紀律委員會嘛但是這幾個案這四個案我告訴委員的就是這四個案確實依照我們監察院的程序來處理的\n\n03:40.647 --> 04:08.055\n民務長我還是要在這邊社會觀感非常不好還是要呼籲民務長您還是要去正視還是要去正視委員這些荒腔走板的這些職務的行使我想這個大家都覺得社會上普遍華人怎麼會有這樣的監察委員獨立行使職權跟立法委員一樣你獨立行使職權行使出來的是這樣荒腔走板\n\n04:08.955 --> 04:33.095\n監察院在秘書長的位置上面高度上面你不用去約束他嗎我沒有辦法約束他您客氣了您是幕僚長但是我想大家心知肚明您有沒有權限去告訴這位監委您要去約束自己的原型舉止來我們再來看對Face議題他的發言\n\n04:34.232 --> 04:47.905\n高永誠監委說,透過憲法法庭來廢除死刑,施司法權針對死刑制度進行實質審查,整體實現司法獨立的存在價值,正在於反抗多數的精神。所謂的司法獨立存在的價值,正在於反抗多數。\n\n04:59.984 --> 05:25.812\n您贊成嗎?這句話你贊成嗎?我跟林委員報告第一個我不是念法律的我是念政治學的那第二個部分這個國家人權委員會被司法院憲法法庭指定為鑒定機關那以國家人權委員會的立場表達得非常清楚國家應廢除死刑保障生命權及人性尊嚴並修護犯罪創傷人保護與被害人的正義這個才是我們真正的重點所在\n\n05:26.312 --> 05:55.078\n所以我現在想說一個監委對司法獨立的精神他講說他的價值在於反抗多數部長我想您對法律也有涉獵啦您父親也是非常有名的法律學者是這樣這句話以你站在一個政治學的一個博士的一個角度你來看對嗎反抗司法存在的價值在於反抗多數啊\n\n05:56.036 --> 06:13.489\n4月23號有對針對這個部分有很多的討論每個人都有不同的見解這個就是憲法法庭為什麼要搖各界做不同的事情我簡單問你好了司法獨立何謂司法獨立依照你個人的了解你簡單回答\n\n06:13.789 --> 06:38.772\n就是不受黨派的約束不受其他的約束自行來依照法律來做自我的判斷我想其實司法獨立的重要的精髓就是說法官他在做判決的時候或在做審判的時候不受任何外力的干涉及影響嘛我同意所以跟他現在他講說他本身是律師欸他怎麼會講說司法獨立的存在價值在於反抗多數\n\n06:39.953 --> 07:07.355\n法官可以反抗多數法官本於他的一個對法律的一個認知以及實現正義這樣子指的一個理念去做出司法獨立的一個裁判不受外力任何的干涉怎麼會去把它去把它影射到去把它牽涉到司法獨立存在的價值在於反抗多數我想這個真的是荒腔走板的發言一個監察委員會做出這樣子的一個言論\n\n07:08.988 --> 07:29.964\n民主黨你認為他這樣的說法你接受嗎?你接受嗎?真的你接受嗎?我再一次跟林委員報告高雄城委員這一次是代表國家人權委員會去憲法法庭的不是代表監察院這個要分清楚那國家人權委員會本來就不是我幕僚長管轄的範疇我們只負責他的人事跟預算\n\n07:30.785 --> 07:52.198\n委員長當然您是一直在就相關的他的法定職權您在做區分其實我想要表達的是說畢竟他是監察委員他也因為監察委員他才可以擔任他因為本身是監察委員他才可以擔任這個人權委員會的這個委員嘛所以這種雙重角色之下他去\n\n07:53.817 --> 08:04.016\n去代表人權委員會去做這樣的一個完全違背司法獨立價值的一個發言這種監委還有存在的必要嗎?\n\n08:04.775 --> 08:34.218\n你抽出那個content看起來就當然會很奇怪那你如果放在那個content裡面其實當天在表達的詹森林大法官問的問題就是說現在的民意確實主張有死刑的比較多數但是是不是一定要這個尊重這個多數的民意這個是詹森林大法官的意見那包括法務部包括人權委員會都有對這個做答覆所以不管詹森林大法官也好我想外界也對他多所批評\n\n08:35.694 --> 08:56.712\n我想我們相關的學者對於學術的一個他的一個看法有些我們會覺得說他真的是對學術的有一個傲慢他認為他的學術看法就對的其實不然認為政策的擬定都要順從民意在我們現在實定法裡面就有死刑這樣的一個相關的規定\n\n08:57.933 --> 09:25.939\n所以你大法官你要去了解說現在民意的走向是怎樣為什麼我們當初刑法要有死刑這樣子的一個立法還有我們現在立法政策是怎麼樣立法政策難道不用考量我們的民意嗎要不要我想您當過民意的立法委員所以我們在擬定相關政策的時候您沒意見嘛就是說要去對相關民意要做調查才擬定相關的政策嘛這麼高的民意\n\n09:27.250 --> 09:28.892\n法定人數不足\n\n09:41.044 --> 09:59.771\n去講說這個為何一定要順從民意我想這離民意太遠了啦所以我才會講到說監委高永成又附和他去講這樣子的一個話司法獨立的存在價值在於反抗多數反抗多數的民意跟民意對幹\n\n10:01.823 --> 10:26.494\n李委員我沒有辦法對每一個人講的每一句話所以嘛所以我在想說我們還是希望監察院對於相關的監察委員的原型舉止在這個不管是公開的啦或私下的啦李署長您都有這個責任去告訴他們去約束他們做監察委員要有個監察委員的一個樣子啦\n\n10:27.517 --> 10:28.317\n我還是衷心的期盼\n\n10:48.243 --> 10:58.852\n您現在貴為秘書長真的要多多的去跟這些監察委員做出正確的一個建議我會把林委員的意見做好以上好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.974,"end":32.379,"text":"謝謝主席請秘書長好請秘書長林委員好是秘書長好秘書長我想我接續剛剛羅志強委員的一個諮詢我想憲法徵修條文第7條第5項規定的非常清楚我們監察委員必須超出黨派以外來依據法律獨立行使職權是"},{"start":33.439,"end":35.74,"text":"高永誠委員：立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員徐巧芯"},{"start":51.158,"end":76.91,"text":"譬如說江永誠監委他利用職權進行政治打壓在這個卡管案期間他調查台大前校長管中銘在新竹市這個前市長林志堅的論文案裡面他調查了當時他的抄襲的對象的調查官余政煌那麼在段宜康曲棍球案"},{"start":77.93,"end":89.266,"text":"竟然在檢察官不起訴了他所指涉的林昌敏前立委之後他竟然彈劾檢察官陳榮祥"},{"start":91.345,"end":97.069,"text":"過去陳思夢在上任監委開始表示要調查半綠不半藍的司法官"},{"start":113.582,"end":126.476,"text":"種種言行政治色彩非常濃厚,完全違背憲法正修條文第7條第5項所規定的,監察委員須超出黨派以外依據法律獨立行使職權。"},{"start":128.018,"end":141.052,"text":"所以針對這些荒腔左絆的這些嚴刑舉止秘書長您認為這位高永成委員他的相關的嚴刑舉止有沒有違反相關的你們監察委員的職權行使的規範"},{"start":144.996,"end":158.346,"text":"我跟您委員報告,如果這些案您列出來的,這個都是經過這個正當的程序來查那至於委員要查什麼案,委員本來就獨立行使職權,我們沒有權干涉民主黨,我想您這個在袒護,在袒護他"},{"start":161.569,"end":180.908,"text":"委員要查什麼案我們本來就沒有權干涉正在監察院秘書長的這樣的一個高度的位置上面如果你的監委完全違背他的職權的行使規範我想你今天在這邊答詢你還彈劾他說是經過這個委員大家共同討論才來決定這個案子"},{"start":183.49,"end":206.705,"text":"如果這四個案,您列了這四個案,確實是委員都討論過但是是他提案的嘛,是監察委員提案的那委員要提什麼案,我們本來就不能干涉是沒有錯,但是您不能干涉,但是事後來檢視他這些行為完全違反相關的監察委員的職權的一個規範那您認為監察院要如何做自律"},{"start":208.137,"end":218.777,"text":"如果有證實他違反相關規範的話我們會有紀律委員會嘛但是這幾個案這四個案我告訴委員的就是這四個案確實依照我們監察院的程序來處理的"},{"start":220.647,"end":248.055,"text":"民務長我還是要在這邊社會觀感非常不好還是要呼籲民務長您還是要去正視還是要去正視委員這些荒腔走板的這些職務的行使我想這個大家都覺得社會上普遍華人怎麼會有這樣的監察委員獨立行使職權跟立法委員一樣你獨立行使職權行使出來的是這樣荒腔走板"},{"start":248.955,"end":273.095,"text":"監察院在秘書長的位置上面高度上面你不用去約束他嗎我沒有辦法約束他您客氣了您是幕僚長但是我想大家心知肚明您有沒有權限去告訴這位監委您要去約束自己的原型舉止來我們再來看對Face議題他的發言"},{"start":274.232,"end":287.905,"text":"高永誠監委說,透過憲法法庭來廢除死刑,施司法權針對死刑制度進行實質審查,整體實現司法獨立的存在價值,正在於反抗多數的精神。所謂的司法獨立存在的價值,正在於反抗多數。"},{"start":299.984,"end":325.812,"text":"您贊成嗎?這句話你贊成嗎?我跟林委員報告第一個我不是念法律的我是念政治學的那第二個部分這個國家人權委員會被司法院憲法法庭指定為鑒定機關那以國家人權委員會的立場表達得非常清楚國家應廢除死刑保障生命權及人性尊嚴並修護犯罪創傷人保護與被害人的正義這個才是我們真正的重點所在"},{"start":326.312,"end":355.078,"text":"所以我現在想說一個監委對司法獨立的精神他講說他的價值在於反抗多數部長我想您對法律也有涉獵啦您父親也是非常有名的法律學者是這樣這句話以你站在一個政治學的一個博士的一個角度你來看對嗎反抗司法存在的價值在於反抗多數啊"},{"start":356.036,"end":373.489,"text":"4月23號有對針對這個部分有很多的討論每個人都有不同的見解這個就是憲法法庭為什麼要搖各界做不同的事情我簡單問你好了 司法獨立何謂司法獨立依照你個人的了解你簡單回答"},{"start":373.789,"end":398.772,"text":"就是不受黨派的約束不受其他的約束自行來依照法律來做自我的判斷我想其實司法獨立的重要的精髓就是說法官他在做判決的時候或在做審判的時候不受任何外力的干涉及影響嘛我同意所以跟他現在他講說他本身是律師欸他怎麼會講說司法獨立的存在價值在於反抗多數"},{"start":399.953,"end":427.355,"text":"法官可以反抗多數法官本於他的一個對法律的一個認知以及實現正義這樣子指的一個理念去做出司法獨立的一個裁判不受外力任何的干涉怎麼會去把它去把它影射到去把它牽涉到司法獨立存在的價值在於反抗多數我想這個真的是荒腔走板的發言一個監察委員會做出這樣子的一個言論"},{"start":428.988,"end":449.964,"text":"民主黨你認為他這樣的說法你接受嗎?你接受嗎?真的你接受嗎?我再一次跟林委員報告高雄城委員這一次是代表國家人權委員會去憲法法庭的不是代表監察院這個要分清楚那國家人權委員會本來就不是我幕僚長管轄的範疇我們只負責他的人事跟預算"},{"start":450.785,"end":472.198,"text":"委員長當然您是一直在就相關的他的法定職權您在做區分其實我想要表達的是說畢竟他是監察委員他也因為監察委員他才可以擔任他因為本身是監察委員他才可以擔任這個人權委員會的這個委員嘛所以這種雙重角色之下他去"},{"start":473.817,"end":484.016,"text":"去代表人權委員會去做這樣的一個完全違背司法獨立價值的一個發言這種監委還有存在的必要嗎?"},{"start":484.775,"end":514.218,"text":"你抽出那個content看起來就當然會很奇怪那你如果放在那個content裡面其實當天在表達的詹森林大法官問的問題就是說現在的民意確實主張有死刑的比較多數但是是不是一定要這個尊重這個多數的民意這個是詹森林大法官的意見那包括法務部包括人權委員會都有對這個做答覆所以不管詹森林大法官也好我想外界也對他多所批評"},{"start":515.694,"end":536.712,"text":"我想我們相關的學者對於學術的一個他的一個看法有些我們會覺得說他真的是對學術的有一個傲慢他認為他的學術看法就對的其實不然認為政策的擬定都要順從民意在我們現在實定法裡面就有死刑這樣的一個相關的規定"},{"start":537.933,"end":565.939,"text":"所以你大法官你要去了解說現在民意的走向是怎樣為什麼我們當初刑法要有死刑這樣子的一個立法還有我們現在立法政策是怎麼樣立法政策難道不用考量我們的民意嗎要不要我想您當過民意的立法委員所以我們在擬定相關政策的時候您沒意見嘛就是說要去對相關民意要做調查才擬定相關的政策嘛這麼高的民意"},{"start":567.25,"end":568.892,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":581.044,"end":599.771,"text":"去講說這個為何一定要順從民意我想這離民意太遠了啦所以我才會講到說監委高永成又附和他去講這樣子的一個話司法獨立的存在價值在於反抗多數反抗多數的民意跟民意對幹"},{"start":601.823,"end":626.494,"text":"李委員我沒有辦法對每一個人講的每一句話所以嘛所以我在想說我們還是希望監察院對於相關的監察委員的原型舉止在這個不管是公開的啦或私下的啦李署長您都有這個責任去告訴他們去約束他們做監察委員要有個監察委員的一個樣子啦"},{"start":627.517,"end":628.317,"text":"我還是衷心的期盼"},{"start":648.243,"end":658.852,"text":"您現在貴為秘書長真的要多多的去跟這些監察委員做出正確的一個建議我會把林委員的意見做好以上好謝謝"}]}}}}