{"id":151831,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151831","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e90f54132b1096e6606e72725733b5d812d28fff7690636534e2527b10508eee086e5678e26938075ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳宗憲","委員發言時間":"10:26:26 - 10:38:54","影片長度":"00:12:28","會議時間":"2024-04-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：審查委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「監察院組織法第三條之一及第三條之二條文修正草案」案。）","date":"2024-04-29","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":18,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-18"},"duration":748,"end_time":"2024-04-29T10:38:54+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-29T10:26:26+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":576,"blocks":[["吳委員宗憲：（10時26分）謝謝，我們麻煩秘書長。"],["李秘書長俊俋：吳委員早。"],["吳委員宗憲：秘書長好。秘書長，我上一次質詢的時候有跟您提到幾個案子，主要就是檢察官陳隆翔被監察委員高涌誠彈劾，當時彈劾他的那個案子。當然，當時秘書長有說這個是監察權的獨立行使嘛，也有說回去會跟他們至少講一下這件事情喔！我覺得這段時間以來，其實朝野都一直有人提說希望廢除監察院，或者是讓它暫時不運作，我想一直都有這個聲音出來。這段時間，我覺得這其實也是秘書長以前的核心理念啦，我想這應該沒講錯啦！好。這段時間，我覺得看起來有一些監察委員還是恣意妄為，甚至淪為政府打擊異己的東廠，當然，我現在是說個別委員，秘書長，我絕對沒有說監察院或說秘書長您，而是就個別委員，因為監察委員裡面也有我非常非常尊敬的長官，我們到現在都還是維持非常良好的關係，所以我的意思是指個別的委員。","我想請問一下秘書長，您之前的一些修法還有相關的政見，其實我直接回過頭去看您臉書的一些內容，我覺得都非常的認同啦！是不是在廢除監察院之前，我們應該是共同來找出這些監察院裡面的害群之馬？要跟他溝通或者甚至監察院內部是不是也要思考送紀律委員會之類的一些作法，讓某些委員能夠知道自己的作法不一定是對的？我想請問一下秘書長，你有沒有同意本席的看法，就是將來能夠跟本席一起對抗那些比較恣意妄為的監察委員？"],["李秘書長俊俋：監察委員獨立行使職權啦！我們很難對他有什麼樣的動作。但是，我以個人的經驗，我有時候會跟委員做一些討論，我們會做建議。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，這個是您之前的臉書嘛，其實當年您在擔任立委前輩、學長的時候也有就監察院的部分提了很多自己的意見……"],["李秘書長俊俋：對，我有提出，我當立委的時候，我有提過修憲案。"],["吳委員宗憲：是。"],["李秘書長俊俋：我主張廢除監察院。"],["吳委員宗憲：對，所以我剛剛說我有去看了一下秘書長您之前的一些看法。我們都知道憲法增修條文第七條第五項，其實它講得很清楚，監察委員必須超出黨派之外，依據法律獨立行使職權，但是這段時間，我就說啦！高涌誠委員，光這一位委員，他一路以來從陳隆翔的案子，那一個案子，我覺得我到現在……當時這個案子發生的時候我也還是檢察官，我必須跟你們報告一件事情，檢察官協會非常不諒解這件事情，檢察官協會是代表全國上千位的檢察官，它非常、非常、非常不諒解這件事情，我是檢察官的一員，我也非常不諒解這件事情，我可以說高涌誠委員這個監察委員完全就是在毀憲亂政，套一句柯總召的說法，這叫毀憲亂政。憲法增修條文第七條第五項明白的說，監察委員要超出黨派，但是這一位高涌誠委員總是在替某些特定人打擊異己，這非常、非常不應該，這個才叫做毀憲亂政，當然這是特定的監察委員，不是全部的委員。","在這段時間，尤其是陳隆翔的案子，就是曲棍球這個案子，不管是一審、二審、三審跟再審的法院判決都不認同段宜康的想法，造成段宜康必須去完成吞曲棍球的宣示，但是他也沒有做，而後來陳隆翔的作法，就讓非常多特定的執政黨人士不太高興、不滿意，這時候高涌誠就跳出來當打手，此舉我認為是不應該的，這個才叫做毀憲亂政，監察委員怎麼會為特定政黨服務呢？","陳隆翔的案子之外，卡管案他也出現了，林智堅論文案中的余正煌，他也出現了；再加上前兩個禮拜侯友宜的案子，他也出現了，真的難以想像一個監察委員放著正事不幹，面對這段時間的問題，口罩、快篩、疫苗、雞蛋等都不會看到他，但是35年前的一個案子，一個基層警察到現場支援，結果承辦的指揮官、帶隊官他都不找，卻去找一個到場的小警察，我不懂這個意思，至少我自己在指揮偵辦案件的時候，我就非常的清楚，承辦的警察到某一個轄區去偵辦、處理、執行案件的時候，都會知會當地分局到場協助，他們到場協助的都是做一些枝微末節的事情，甚至只是維護交通，他們不會去做案子真正核心的事情，你今天把一個到場支援的警察，狠狠的修理，結果其他帶隊官、指揮官、承辦的人你都不找，這個很難不讓社會大眾相信你不是政治的打手啊！這也間接的傷害了監察院在人民以及我們心目中超然的地位。所以針對他的這個作法，我到現在還是覺得他沒有最壞，只有更壞；高涌誠這個傢伙，沒有最壞，只有更壞，繼續無下限地在搞他的政治打擊。","我請教秘書長，之前高涌誠委員在偵辦陳隆翔案子的時候，他曾對檢察官說：你不幫我解決這個問題，就是逼我要彈劾你。請問你認同一個監察委員、這麼高職位的監察委員，對被調查人講這句話合理嗎？"],["李秘書長俊俋：監察委員在約詢的時候講什麼話我沒有辦法負責任。"],["吳委員宗憲：不是要秘書長負責任，我是請教你，你覺得合理嗎？"],["李秘書長俊俋：我也不適合去做任何評論。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，我尊重秘書長的想法，但是我個人認為這個完全不合理，就像法官、檢察官在問案的時候，若口氣不好或罵髒話，常常都會被陳情，甚至後來被處分，我覺得你到那個位置就要有那個位置的樣子，而不是到那個位置，你就開始講一些有的沒有的，甚至他在調查臺大卡管案的時候也是說到：你們不要敬酒不吃吃罰酒。我覺得這個都不應該，監察委員怎麼會做這種事情呢？"],["李秘書長俊俋：卡管案查的好像是違法兼職。"],["吳委員宗憲：對，沒錯，是兼職，但是我覺得不管如何，當時他就跳進去查，要求他們出具兼職的報告，對不對？然後他在那個案子進行調查的時候講的那句話我也覺得不妥，就像我檢察官在辦一個殺人案，就算這個人真的是殺人犯，在監視器底下殺人，我們也不會去對他講一些有的沒有的，該怎麼查就怎麼查，一切都是依照程序來，所以我認為這個是不對的。","再來，我想請教一下以前的陳師孟他也曾經講過要辦那些專辦綠、不辦藍的法官，我本來想請教你，你認為這句話合不合理，但我想秘書長的意思應該還是不便發表意見。"],["李秘書長俊俋：對委員的任何發言，我們都不便做評論，陳師孟委員現在也不在監察院。"],["吳委員宗憲：畢竟監察還是有連貫性的，我的意思只是，其實我一直不認同監察委員利用執行監察職務的時候替某些人或某些政黨做一些服務，今天不管誰執政，我想秘書長您當年的想法也是這樣子，我們來看一下您的臉書，如果我們把這些東西稍微改寫、稍微思考一下，則我們現在的說詞跟您當年臉書的內容，其實是一模一樣，我們都認為監察權不應該恣意妄為，甚至我們認為監察院根本就應該要廢掉或停止它的運作，否則這段時間以來，你看這些離譜的監察委員，他們自甘作為政治的打手，但是對於民生有重大關聯性的案子，卻都看不到他們的身影，說真的，我不認同這些作法，尤其是調查一個35年前的案子，結果主導者你都不找，卻去找一個來支援的轄區警力，而且是一個基層的刑事組組長，我覺得這個是有點離譜了。而且我必須講，這個作法只會讓監察院跟監察委員在人民心目中的印象越來越不好，就像我很討厭檢察官、法官裡面的一些害群之馬，他利用辦案子、利用司法在做自己想做的事，或為特定的公司、為特定的政治人物護航，這些人我也看不起，有機會揪出來，我也會狠狠的修理他們，但監察委員也是，立法委員也是，你覺得合理嗎？我覺得我們還是必須依據憲法的設計去做我們該做的事情，我現在的講法跟秘書長您當年擔任立委時的想法其實是一致的。"],["李秘書長俊俋：我現在想法還是一樣啊！"],["吳委員宗憲：好，謝謝秘書長。"],["李秘書長俊俋：只是我對委員不便做任何的評論。"],["吳委員宗憲：謝謝秘書長認同，我可以接受您說不便做任何評論，因為我可以理解獨立行使監察權這個概念。","最後，我還是麻煩秘書長今天能夠再把這個話帶給高委員，跟他講就好，我沒有要干涉你們，我們也無權干涉監察院內部怎麼運作，但真的是苦口婆心，麻煩秘書長告訴高委員，我覺得凡事適可而止就好，因為現在資訊很發達，你今天做一件事情合不合理、適不適當，我覺得全民都用眼睛在那邊看，對當年的陳隆翔是這樣，對後來的侯友宜是這樣，就算我在旁邊看，我都看不下去，當然，如果你真的要調查一件事情，該怎麼調查就依照程序來，至少像個調查的樣子，你要查一個35年前的案子，至少你把相關人等都找齊了，我覺得也沒有話說，怎麼會在第一時間、第一個找的是一個完全無關且只是在場配合執行的轄區員警？這是我沒有辦法理解的，而且我自己帶隊辦案出身，我很清楚警察會怎麼安排這些事情、要怎麼樣叫轄區警察配合、轄區警察配合的人能夠碰觸到案子什麼樣的程度等等，我們都很清楚，所以我還是沒辦法認同高委員的這個作法。"],["李秘書長俊俋：我會轉達吳委員的意見。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，謝謝秘書長。"],["主席（吳委員宗憲）：我們下一位請鄭天財委員、鄭天財委員、鄭天財委員。","下一位請黃建賓委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":386,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-18","speakers":["吳宗憲","徐巧芯","黃國昌","沈發惠","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","陳俊宇","羅智強","林思銘","黃建賓","牛煦庭","吳思瑤","柯建銘","傅崐萁","翁曉玲","王鴻薇"],"page_start":335,"meetingDate":["2024-04-29"],"gazette_id":"1133501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133501_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「監察院組織法第三條之一及第三條之二條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133501_00017"}},"transcript":{"id":"151831","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151831","tool":"pyannote","id":"151831-pyannote"},"job_id":"vFpC97yZPG7ApMkh","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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{\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"監\"}, {\"word\": \"察\", \"start\": 228.614, \"end\": 228.774, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 228.774, \"end\": 228.934, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 228.934, \"end\": 229.374, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 229.374, \"end\": 229.634, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 229.634, \"end\": 229.654, \"score\": 0.796}]}, {\"start\": 231.394, \"end\": 260.527, \"text\": \"我可以說是毀憲亂政套一句柯總召的說法叫毀憲亂政憲法徵修條文第7條第5項明白的說監察委員要超出黨派但是這位高永成委員總是替某些特定人打擊異己這是非常非常不應該這個才叫做毀憲亂政當然特定監察委員不是全部的這段時間尤其是陳榮祥的案子\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 231.394, \"end\": 231.514, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 231.514, \"end\": 232.074, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 232.074, \"end\": 232.314, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 232.314, \"end\": 232.575, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"毀\"}, {\"word\": 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\"end\": 490.297, \"score\": 0.784}, {\"word\": \"來\"}]}, {\"start\": 491.477, \"end\": 519.415, \"text\": \"所以我認為這個是不對的那再來就是我想請教一下以前那個陳思夢阿他也曾經講過說他要去他要去辦那些什麼他要去查那些什麼專辦律不辦懶的那些法官那好吧我本來想請教你說你認為這句話合不合理我想說民主黨你的意思應該還是不便發表意見對委員的任何發言我們都不便做評論那陳思夢委員現在也不在監察院\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 491.477, \"end\": 491.617, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 491.617, \"end\": 491.917, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 491.917, \"end\": 492.298, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 492.298, \"end\": 492.458, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 492.458, \"end\": 492.638, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 492.638, \"end\": 493.478, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 493.478, \"end\": 493.839, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 493.839, \"end\": 494.139, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", 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\"end\": 519.415, \"score\": 0.359}]}, {\"start\": 521.675, \"end\": 545.871, \"text\": \"那是齁 這個畢竟這個監察他是一個還是有連貫性的啦那我的意思只是說其實我一直不認同監察委員他利用執行監察職務的這個時候去做一些或替某些人或某些政黨去做一些服務我想今天不管誰執政我想秘書長您的想法一樣您當年的想法也是這樣子嘛那我們看一下齁其實\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 521.675, \"end\": 521.856, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 521.856, \"end\": 522.576, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"齁\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"畢\"}, {\"word\": \"竟\", \"start\": 522.576, \"end\": 523.216, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"監\"}, {\"word\": \"察\", \"start\": 523.216, \"end\": 523.377, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 523.377, \"end\": 523.537, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 523.537, \"end\": 523.657, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 523.657, \"end\": 524.397, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 524.397, \"end\": 524.497, \"score\": 0.999}, 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0.99}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 703.231, \"end\": 703.251, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"吳\"}, {\"word\": \"宗\", \"start\": 704.292, \"end\": 704.312, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"憲\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 726.937, \"end\": 727.017, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 727.017, \"end\": 727.037, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,209 --> 00:00:10,070\n好謝謝那我們麻煩秘書長\n\n2\n00:00:15,407 --> 00:00:31,196\n吳委員早我上一次跟您質詢的時候有跟您提到幾個案子主要就是提到當初檢察官陳榮祥被監察委員高永成\n\n3\n00:00:35,331 --> 00:00:48,483\n當時彈劾他的那個案子當然當時秘書長有說這個是監察權的獨立行使當時秘書長也有說會回去跟他們至少講一下這件事情\n\n4\n00:00:49,364 --> 00:01:02,262\n那我覺得這段時間以來那其實草野都一直有人提說希望廢除監察院或者是讓他暫時不運作我想一直都有這個聲音出來\n\n5\n00:01:06,574 --> 00:01:31,779\n這段時間呢我覺得其實這個也是秘書長以前的核心理念啦我想這應該沒講錯啦那這段時間我覺得看起來有一些監察委員還是置意妄為甚至淪為政府打擊議席的東廠當然我現在先說個別委員秘書長我絕對沒有說監察院或說秘書長您而是就個別委員\n\n6\n00:01:32,859 --> 00:01:32,979\n主席\n\n7\n00:01:45,356 --> 00:02:02,237\n秘書長您之前的一些修法還有相關的政見其實我這樣直接回過頭去看您臉書的一些內容我覺得都非常的認同那是不是說我們在廢除監察院之前我們應該是共同來找出這些監察院裡面的這個害群之馬\n\n8\n00:02:02,978 --> 00:02:03,338\n監察委員徐巧芯\n\n9\n00:02:25,728 --> 00:02:36,458\n監察委員獨立行使職權我們很難對他有什麼樣的動作但是我以個人的經驗我有時候會跟委員做一些討論我們會是做建議這樣\n\n10\n00:02:40,687 --> 00:03:03,953\n這是您之前的臉書嗎?當年您擔任立委前輩的學長的時候,監察院的部分也是提了很多自己的意見我當立委的時候有提過修憲案,我主張被除監察院所以我剛剛說,我有去看了一下民主黨您之前的一些看法\n\n11\n00:03:06,714 --> 00:03:27,147\n憲法徵修條文第7條第5項其實他講得很清楚監察委員必須超出黨派之外依據法律獨立行使職權但是呢這段時間我就說啦高永成委員光這一位委員他一路以來從陳榮祥的案子那個案子我覺得我到現在\n\n12\n00:03:28,487 --> 00:03:49,654\n當時這個案子發生的時候我還是檢察官那我必須跟你們報告一件事情檢察官協會非常不諒解這件事情檢察官協會是代表全國上千位的檢察官他非常非常非常不諒解這件事我是檢察官的一員我也非常不諒解這件事情我覺得高榮成委員這個監察委員是完全\n\n13\n00:03:51,394 --> 00:04:20,527\n我可以說是毀憲亂政套一句柯總召的說法叫毀憲亂政憲法徵修條文第7條第5項明白的說監察委員要超出黨派但是這位高永成委員總是替某些特定人打擊異己這是非常非常不應該這個才叫做毀憲亂政當然特定監察委員不是全部的這段時間尤其是陳榮祥的案子\n\n14\n00:04:22,277 --> 00:04:31,890\n陳東祥所做出來的做法因為在這樣子啦曲棍球這個案子不管一審二審三審跟再審的法院的判決\n\n15\n00:04:33,274 --> 00:04:33,294\n吳宗憲\n\n16\n00:05:03,935 --> 00:05:21,734\n陳榮祥的案子之外﹖卡管案他也出現了﹖林志傑論文案的余政煌他也出現了﹖再加上前兩個禮拜的侯友宜的案子他也出現了﹖真的難以想像一個監察委員放著政事不幹這段時間的問題呢﹖\n\n17\n00:05:24,053 --> 00:05:24,073\n吳宗憲\n\n18\n00:05:42,236 --> 00:06:04,774\n小警察我不懂這個意思啦至少我自己在指揮偵辦案件的時候我非常的清楚偵辦的警察到某一個轄區去偵辦處理案件執行案件的時候都會知會當地分局到場協助那他們到場協助都是做一些知違末節的事情甚至只是維護交通他們不會去做真正案子的核心的事情\n\n19\n00:06:05,575 --> 00:06:33,874\n結果你今天把一個到場支援的警察你和你的修理結果其他帶隊官指揮官懲辦的人你都不找那你這個很難不讓社會大眾相信說你不是政治的打手啊那這個也間接的傷害監察院在人民以及在我們心目中那個超然的地位所以我認為他的這個做法我到現在還是覺得他沒有更壞他沒有最壞只有更壞啦\n\n20\n00:06:35,458 --> 00:06:58,368\n高永成這個傢伙沒有最壞只有更壞在繼續無暇限的在搞他的政治打擊我請教那個秘書長之前高永成委員他在偵辦那個陳榮祥的案子的時候他對檢察官曾經說你不幫我解決這個問題就是逼我要彈劾你請問你認同一個監察委員這麼高職位的監察委員對\n\n21\n00:07:01,553 --> 00:07:17,590\n被調查人講這句話合理嗎?監察委員在約群的時候講什麼話,我沒有辦法負責任。不是要,不是,報告秘書長,不是要你負責任,是我請教你,你覺得合理嗎?我也不適合去做任何評論啦。好,那我尊重秘書長的想法。\n\n22\n00:07:18,551 --> 00:07:40,308\n但是我個人認為這個完全不合理就像法官檢察官在問案的時候你口氣不好或罵髒話常常都被懲刑後來被處分我覺得你到那個位置就有那個位置的樣子而不是說到那個位置你就開始講一些有的沒有的甚至他對台大的台大調查台大的那個那個卡管案的時候他也是說\n\n23\n00:07:41,547 --> 00:08:10,297\n你們不要敬酒不吃吃罰酒我覺得這個都不應該監察委員怎麼會做這種事情法廣案查的好像是違法兼職對沒錯是兼職的時候但是我覺得不管如何當時他就跳進去查要求他們出去兼職的報告嘛對不對然後他在那個案子調查的時候講那句話我覺得也不妥就像我警察官我再辦一個殺人案就算這個人真正是殺人犯監視自己底下殺人我們也不會去對他講一些有的沒有的啦該怎麼查就怎麼查的一切是依照程序來\n\n24\n00:08:11,477 --> 00:08:39,415\n所以我認為這個是不對的那再來就是我想請教一下以前那個陳思夢阿他也曾經講過說他要去他要去辦那些什麼他要去查那些什麼專辦律不辦懶的那些法官那好吧我本來想請教你說你認為這句話合不合理我想說民主黨你的意思應該還是不便發表意見對委員的任何發言我們都不便做評論那陳思夢委員現在也不在監察院\n\n25\n00:08:41,675 --> 00:09:05,871\n那是齁這個畢竟這個監察他是一個還是有連貫性的啦那我的意思只是說其實我一直不認同監察委員他利用執行監察職務的這個時候去做一些或替某些人或某些政黨去做一些服務我想今天不管誰執政我想秘書長您的想法一樣您當年的想法也是這樣子嘛那我們看一下齁其實\n\n26\n00:09:08,618 --> 00:09:35,323\n最後我們看一下您的臉書其實我覺得我們如果說把這些一些東西我們稍微改寫稍微思考一下其實跟我們現在的說辭跟您當年臉書的內容其實一模一樣我們都認為監察權不應該置意妄為甚至我們認為監察院根本就應該要廢掉或停止它的運作否則\n\n27\n00:09:36,603 --> 00:09:52,296\n這段時間以來你看這些離譜的監察委員他們這麼的自願自甘作為政治的打手但是在對於民生有重大關聯性的案子卻都看不到他們的身影\n\n28\n00:09:53,524 --> 00:09:53,544\n吳宗憲\n\n29\n00:10:14,195 --> 00:10:39,196\n我必須講一個這個只會讓監察院跟監察委員在人民心目中的印象越來越不好就像我很討厭檢察官法官裡面一些害群之馬他利用辦案子利用司法在做自己想做的事或為特定的公司為特定的政治人物護航這件我也看不起有機會揪出來我會狠狠地修理他們但是監察委員也是立法委員也是我覺得我們\n\n30\n00:10:40,317 --> 00:11:05,857\n還是必須依據憲法的設計在做我們該做的事情我現在的想法跟秘書長您當年在擔任立委的時候您的想法我現在想法還是一樣啊我現在想法還是一樣只是我對委員的不便做任何評論是謝謝秘書長認同啦但是我可以接受您說不便做任何評論因為我可以理解獨立行使監察權的這個概念\n\n31\n00:11:09,658 --> 00:11:19,832\n最後我還是麻煩一下秘書長今天能夠再把這個話能夠帶給高委員就是跟他講就好我們也無權干涉監察院內部怎麼運作但是\n\n32\n00:11:23,919 --> 00:11:43,251\n真的是苦口婆心麻煩秘書長告訴高委員凡事我覺得適可而止就好因為現在資訊很發達你先做一件事情合不合理適不適當我覺得全民都會有眼睛在那邊看對當年的陳榮祥這樣對後來的侯友宜這樣我坐在旁邊看我都看不下去\n\n33\n00:11:44,292 --> 00:11:44,312\n吳宗憲\n\n34\n00:12:06,937 --> 00:12:07,037\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8209\t10070\t好謝謝那我們麻煩秘書長\n15407\t31196\t吳委員早我上一次跟您質詢的時候有跟您提到幾個案子主要就是提到當初檢察官陳榮祥被監察委員高永成\n35331\t48483\t當時彈劾他的那個案子當然當時秘書長有說這個是監察權的獨立行使當時秘書長也有說會回去跟他們至少講一下這件事情\n49364\t62262\t那我覺得這段時間以來那其實草野都一直有人提說希望廢除監察院或者是讓他暫時不運作我想一直都有這個聲音出來\n66574\t91779\t這段時間呢我覺得其實這個也是秘書長以前的核心理念啦我想這應該沒講錯啦那這段時間我覺得看起來有一些監察委員還是置意妄為甚至淪為政府打擊議席的東廠當然我現在先說個別委員秘書長我絕對沒有說監察院或說秘書長您而是就個別委員\n92859\t92979\t主席\n105356\t122237\t秘書長您之前的一些修法還有相關的政見其實我這樣直接回過頭去看您臉書的一些內容我覺得都非常的認同那是不是說我們在廢除監察院之前我們應該是共同來找出這些監察院裡面的這個害群之馬\n122978\t123338\t監察委員徐巧芯\n145728\t156458\t監察委員獨立行使職權我們很難對他有什麼樣的動作但是我以個人的經驗我有時候會跟委員做一些討論我們會是做建議這樣\n160687\t183953\t這是您之前的臉書嗎?當年您擔任立委前輩的學長的時候,監察院的部分也是提了很多自己的意見我當立委的時候有提過修憲案,我主張被除監察院所以我剛剛說,我有去看了一下民主黨您之前的一些看法\n186714\t207147\t憲法徵修條文第7條第5項其實他講得很清楚監察委員必須超出黨派之外依據法律獨立行使職權但是呢這段時間我就說啦高永成委員光這一位委員他一路以來從陳榮祥的案子那個案子我覺得我到現在\n208487\t229654\t當時這個案子發生的時候我還是檢察官那我必須跟你們報告一件事情檢察官協會非常不諒解這件事情檢察官協會是代表全國上千位的檢察官他非常非常非常不諒解這件事我是檢察官的一員我也非常不諒解這件事情我覺得高榮成委員這個監察委員是完全\n231394\t260527\t我可以說是毀憲亂政套一句柯總召的說法叫毀憲亂政憲法徵修條文第7條第5項明白的說監察委員要超出黨派但是這位高永成委員總是替某些特定人打擊異己這是非常非常不應該這個才叫做毀憲亂政當然特定監察委員不是全部的這段時間尤其是陳榮祥的案子\n262277\t271890\t陳東祥所做出來的做法因為在這樣子啦 曲棍球這個案子不管一審 二審 三審 跟再審的法院的判決\n273274\t273294\t吳宗憲\n303935\t321734\t陳榮祥的案子之外﹖卡管案他也出現了﹖林志傑論文案的余政煌他也出現了﹖再加上前兩個禮拜的侯友宜的案子他也出現了﹖真的難以想像一個監察委員放著政事不幹這段時間的問題呢﹖\n324053\t324073\t吳宗憲\n342236\t364774\t小警察 我不懂這個意思啦至少我自己在指揮偵辦案件的時候我非常的清楚偵辦的警察到某一個轄區去偵辦處理案件執行案件的時候都會知會當地分局到場協助那他們到場協助都是做一些知違末節的事情甚至只是維護交通他們不會去做真正案子的核心的事情\n365575\t393874\t結果你今天把一個到場支援的警察你和你的修理結果其他帶隊官指揮官懲辦的人你都不找那你這個很難不讓社會大眾相信說你不是政治的打手啊那這個也間接的傷害監察院在人民以及在我們心目中那個超然的地位所以我認為他的這個做法我到現在還是覺得他沒有更壞他沒有最壞只有更壞啦\n395458\t418368\t高永成這個傢伙沒有最壞只有更壞在繼續無暇限的在搞他的政治打擊我請教那個秘書長之前高永成委員他在偵辦那個陳榮祥的案子的時候他對檢察官曾經說你不幫我解決這個問題就是逼我要彈劾你請問你認同一個監察委員這麼高職位的監察委員對\n421553\t437590\t被調查人講這句話合理嗎?監察委員在約群的時候講什麼話,我沒有辦法負責任。不是要,不是,報告秘書長,不是要你負責任,是我請教你,你覺得合理嗎?我也不適合去做任何評論啦。好,那我尊重秘書長的想法。\n438551\t460308\t但是我個人認為這個完全不合理就像法官檢察官在問案的時候你口氣不好或罵髒話常常都被懲刑後來被處分我覺得你到那個位置就有那個位置的樣子而不是說到那個位置你就開始講一些有的沒有的甚至他對台大的台大調查台大的那個那個卡管案的時候他也是說\n461547\t490297\t你們不要敬酒不吃吃罰酒我覺得這個都不應該監察委員怎麼會做這種事情法廣案查的好像是違法兼職對沒錯是兼職的時候但是我覺得不管如何當時他就跳進去查要求他們出去兼職的報告嘛對不對然後他在那個案子調查的時候講那句話我覺得也不妥就像我警察官我再辦一個殺人案就算這個人真正是殺人犯監視自己底下殺人我們也不會去對他講一些有的沒有的啦該怎麼查就怎麼查的一切是依照程序來\n491477\t519415\t所以我認為這個是不對的那再來就是我想請教一下以前那個陳思夢阿他也曾經講過說他要去他要去辦那些什麼他要去查那些什麼專辦律不辦懶的那些法官那好吧我本來想請教你說你認為這句話合不合理我想說民主黨你的意思應該還是不便發表意見對委員的任何發言我們都不便做評論那陳思夢委員現在也不在監察院\n521675\t545871\t那是齁 這個畢竟這個監察他是一個還是有連貫性的啦那我的意思只是說其實我一直不認同監察委員他利用執行監察職務的這個時候去做一些或替某些人或某些政黨去做一些服務我想今天不管誰執政我想秘書長您的想法一樣您當年的想法也是這樣子嘛那我們看一下齁其實\n548618\t575323\t最後我們看一下您的臉書其實我覺得我們如果說把這些一些東西我們稍微改寫稍微思考一下其實跟我們現在的說辭跟您當年臉書的內容其實一模一樣我們都認為監察權不應該置意妄為甚至我們認為監察院根本就應該要廢掉或停止它的運作否則\n576603\t592296\t這段時間以來你看這些離譜的監察委員他們這麼的自願自甘作為政治的打手但是在對於民生有重大關聯性的案子卻都看不到他們的身影\n593524\t593544\t吳宗憲\n614195\t639196\t我必須講一個 這個只會讓監察院跟監察委員在人民心目中的印象越來越不好就像我很討厭檢察官法官裡面一些害群之馬他利用辦案子 利用司法在做自己想做的事或為特定的公司 為特定的政治人物護航 這件我也看不起有機會揪出來 我會狠狠地修理他們但是監察委員也是 立法委員也是 我覺得我們\n640317\t665857\t還是必須依據憲法的設計在做我們該做的事情我現在的想法跟秘書長您當年在擔任立委的時候您的想法我現在想法還是一樣啊我現在想法還是一樣只是我對委員的不便做任何評論是 謝謝秘書長認同啦但是我可以接受您說不便做任何評論因為我可以理解獨立行使監察權的這個概念\n669658\t679832\t最後我還是麻煩一下秘書長今天能夠再把這個話能夠帶給高委員就是跟他講就好我們也無權干涉監察院內部怎麼運作但是\n683919\t703251\t真的是苦口婆心麻煩秘書長告訴高委員凡事我覺得適可而止就好因為現在資訊很發達你先做一件事情合不合理適不適當我覺得全民都會有眼睛在那邊看對當年的陳榮祥這樣對後來的侯友宜這樣我坐在旁邊看我都看不下去\n704292\t704312\t吳宗憲\n726937\t727037\t主席\n","txt":"好謝謝那我們麻煩秘書長\n吳委員早我上一次跟您質詢的時候有跟您提到幾個案子主要就是提到當初檢察官陳榮祥被監察委員高永成\n當時彈劾他的那個案子當然當時秘書長有說這個是監察權的獨立行使當時秘書長也有說會回去跟他們至少講一下這件事情\n那我覺得這段時間以來那其實草野都一直有人提說希望廢除監察院或者是讓他暫時不運作我想一直都有這個聲音出來\n這段時間呢我覺得其實這個也是秘書長以前的核心理念啦我想這應該沒講錯啦那這段時間我覺得看起來有一些監察委員還是置意妄為甚至淪為政府打擊議席的東廠當然我現在先說個別委員秘書長我絕對沒有說監察院或說秘書長您而是就個別委員\n主席\n秘書長您之前的一些修法還有相關的政見其實我這樣直接回過頭去看您臉書的一些內容我覺得都非常的認同那是不是說我們在廢除監察院之前我們應該是共同來找出這些監察院裡面的這個害群之馬\n監察委員徐巧芯\n監察委員獨立行使職權我們很難對他有什麼樣的動作但是我以個人的經驗我有時候會跟委員做一些討論我們會是做建議這樣\n這是您之前的臉書嗎?當年您擔任立委前輩的學長的時候,監察院的部分也是提了很多自己的意見我當立委的時候有提過修憲案,我主張被除監察院所以我剛剛說,我有去看了一下民主黨您之前的一些看法\n憲法徵修條文第7條第5項其實他講得很清楚監察委員必須超出黨派之外依據法律獨立行使職權但是呢這段時間我就說啦高永成委員光這一位委員他一路以來從陳榮祥的案子那個案子我覺得我到現在\n當時這個案子發生的時候我還是檢察官那我必須跟你們報告一件事情檢察官協會非常不諒解這件事情檢察官協會是代表全國上千位的檢察官他非常非常非常不諒解這件事我是檢察官的一員我也非常不諒解這件事情我覺得高榮成委員這個監察委員是完全\n我可以說是毀憲亂政套一句柯總召的說法叫毀憲亂政憲法徵修條文第7條第5項明白的說監察委員要超出黨派但是這位高永成委員總是替某些特定人打擊異己這是非常非常不應該這個才叫做毀憲亂政當然特定監察委員不是全部的這段時間尤其是陳榮祥的案子\n陳東祥所做出來的做法因為在這樣子啦 曲棍球這個案子不管一審 二審 三審 跟再審的法院的判決\n吳宗憲\n陳榮祥的案子之外﹖卡管案他也出現了﹖林志傑論文案的余政煌他也出現了﹖再加上前兩個禮拜的侯友宜的案子他也出現了﹖真的難以想像一個監察委員放著政事不幹這段時間的問題呢﹖\n吳宗憲\n小警察 我不懂這個意思啦至少我自己在指揮偵辦案件的時候我非常的清楚偵辦的警察到某一個轄區去偵辦處理案件執行案件的時候都會知會當地分局到場協助那他們到場協助都是做一些知違末節的事情甚至只是維護交通他們不會去做真正案子的核心的事情\n結果你今天把一個到場支援的警察你和你的修理結果其他帶隊官指揮官懲辦的人你都不找那你這個很難不讓社會大眾相信說你不是政治的打手啊那這個也間接的傷害監察院在人民以及在我們心目中那個超然的地位所以我認為他的這個做法我到現在還是覺得他沒有更壞他沒有最壞只有更壞啦\n高永成這個傢伙沒有最壞只有更壞在繼續無暇限的在搞他的政治打擊我請教那個秘書長之前高永成委員他在偵辦那個陳榮祥的案子的時候他對檢察官曾經說你不幫我解決這個問題就是逼我要彈劾你請問你認同一個監察委員這麼高職位的監察委員對\n被調查人講這句話合理嗎?監察委員在約群的時候講什麼話,我沒有辦法負責任。不是要,不是,報告秘書長,不是要你負責任,是我請教你,你覺得合理嗎?我也不適合去做任何評論啦。好,那我尊重秘書長的想法。\n但是我個人認為這個完全不合理就像法官檢察官在問案的時候你口氣不好或罵髒話常常都被懲刑後來被處分我覺得你到那個位置就有那個位置的樣子而不是說到那個位置你就開始講一些有的沒有的甚至他對台大的台大調查台大的那個那個卡管案的時候他也是說\n你們不要敬酒不吃吃罰酒我覺得這個都不應該監察委員怎麼會做這種事情法廣案查的好像是違法兼職對沒錯是兼職的時候但是我覺得不管如何當時他就跳進去查要求他們出去兼職的報告嘛對不對然後他在那個案子調查的時候講那句話我覺得也不妥就像我警察官我再辦一個殺人案就算這個人真正是殺人犯監視自己底下殺人我們也不會去對他講一些有的沒有的啦該怎麼查就怎麼查的一切是依照程序來\n所以我認為這個是不對的那再來就是我想請教一下以前那個陳思夢阿他也曾經講過說他要去他要去辦那些什麼他要去查那些什麼專辦律不辦懶的那些法官那好吧我本來想請教你說你認為這句話合不合理我想說民主黨你的意思應該還是不便發表意見對委員的任何發言我們都不便做評論那陳思夢委員現在也不在監察院\n那是齁 這個畢竟這個監察他是一個還是有連貫性的啦那我的意思只是說其實我一直不認同監察委員他利用執行監察職務的這個時候去做一些或替某些人或某些政黨去做一些服務我想今天不管誰執政我想秘書長您的想法一樣您當年的想法也是這樣子嘛那我們看一下齁其實\n最後我們看一下您的臉書其實我覺得我們如果說把這些一些東西我們稍微改寫稍微思考一下其實跟我們現在的說辭跟您當年臉書的內容其實一模一樣我們都認為監察權不應該置意妄為甚至我們認為監察院根本就應該要廢掉或停止它的運作否則\n這段時間以來你看這些離譜的監察委員他們這麼的自願自甘作為政治的打手但是在對於民生有重大關聯性的案子卻都看不到他們的身影\n吳宗憲\n我必須講一個 這個只會讓監察院跟監察委員在人民心目中的印象越來越不好就像我很討厭檢察官法官裡面一些害群之馬他利用辦案子 利用司法在做自己想做的事或為特定的公司 為特定的政治人物護航 這件我也看不起有機會揪出來 我會狠狠地修理他們但是監察委員也是 立法委員也是 我覺得我們\n還是必須依據憲法的設計在做我們該做的事情我現在的想法跟秘書長您當年在擔任立委的時候您的想法我現在想法還是一樣啊我現在想法還是一樣只是我對委員的不便做任何評論是 謝謝秘書長認同啦但是我可以接受您說不便做任何評論因為我可以理解獨立行使監察權的這個概念\n最後我還是麻煩一下秘書長今天能夠再把這個話能夠帶給高委員就是跟他講就好我們也無權干涉監察院內部怎麼運作但是\n真的是苦口婆心麻煩秘書長告訴高委員凡事我覺得適可而止就好因為現在資訊很發達你先做一件事情合不合理適不適當我覺得全民都會有眼睛在那邊看對當年的陳榮祥這樣對後來的侯友宜這樣我坐在旁邊看我都看不下去\n吳宗憲\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.209 --> 00:10.070\n好謝謝那我們麻煩秘書長\n\n00:15.407 --> 00:31.196\n吳委員早我上一次跟您質詢的時候有跟您提到幾個案子主要就是提到當初檢察官陳榮祥被監察委員高永成\n\n00:35.331 --> 00:48.483\n當時彈劾他的那個案子當然當時秘書長有說這個是監察權的獨立行使當時秘書長也有說會回去跟他們至少講一下這件事情\n\n00:49.364 --> 01:02.262\n那我覺得這段時間以來那其實草野都一直有人提說希望廢除監察院或者是讓他暫時不運作我想一直都有這個聲音出來\n\n01:06.574 --> 01:31.779\n這段時間呢我覺得其實這個也是秘書長以前的核心理念啦我想這應該沒講錯啦那這段時間我覺得看起來有一些監察委員還是置意妄為甚至淪為政府打擊議席的東廠當然我現在先說個別委員秘書長我絕對沒有說監察院或說秘書長您而是就個別委員\n\n01:32.859 --> 01:32.979\n主席\n\n01:45.356 --> 02:02.237\n秘書長您之前的一些修法還有相關的政見其實我這樣直接回過頭去看您臉書的一些內容我覺得都非常的認同那是不是說我們在廢除監察院之前我們應該是共同來找出這些監察院裡面的這個害群之馬\n\n02:02.978 --> 02:03.338\n監察委員徐巧芯\n\n02:25.728 --> 02:36.458\n監察委員獨立行使職權我們很難對他有什麼樣的動作但是我以個人的經驗我有時候會跟委員做一些討論我們會是做建議這樣\n\n02:40.687 --> 03:03.953\n這是您之前的臉書嗎?當年您擔任立委前輩的學長的時候,監察院的部分也是提了很多自己的意見我當立委的時候有提過修憲案,我主張被除監察院所以我剛剛說,我有去看了一下民主黨您之前的一些看法\n\n03:06.714 --> 03:27.147\n憲法徵修條文第7條第5項其實他講得很清楚監察委員必須超出黨派之外依據法律獨立行使職權但是呢這段時間我就說啦高永成委員光這一位委員他一路以來從陳榮祥的案子那個案子我覺得我到現在\n\n03:28.487 --> 03:49.654\n當時這個案子發生的時候我還是檢察官那我必須跟你們報告一件事情檢察官協會非常不諒解這件事情檢察官協會是代表全國上千位的檢察官他非常非常非常不諒解這件事我是檢察官的一員我也非常不諒解這件事情我覺得高榮成委員這個監察委員是完全\n\n03:51.394 --> 04:20.527\n我可以說是毀憲亂政套一句柯總召的說法叫毀憲亂政憲法徵修條文第7條第5項明白的說監察委員要超出黨派但是這位高永成委員總是替某些特定人打擊異己這是非常非常不應該這個才叫做毀憲亂政當然特定監察委員不是全部的這段時間尤其是陳榮祥的案子\n\n04:22.277 --> 04:31.890\n陳東祥所做出來的做法因為在這樣子啦曲棍球這個案子不管一審二審三審跟再審的法院的判決\n\n04:33.274 --> 04:33.294\n吳宗憲\n\n05:03.935 --> 05:21.734\n陳榮祥的案子之外﹖卡管案他也出現了﹖林志傑論文案的余政煌他也出現了﹖再加上前兩個禮拜的侯友宜的案子他也出現了﹖真的難以想像一個監察委員放著政事不幹這段時間的問題呢﹖\n\n05:24.053 --> 05:24.073\n吳宗憲\n\n05:42.236 --> 06:04.774\n小警察我不懂這個意思啦至少我自己在指揮偵辦案件的時候我非常的清楚偵辦的警察到某一個轄區去偵辦處理案件執行案件的時候都會知會當地分局到場協助那他們到場協助都是做一些知違末節的事情甚至只是維護交通他們不會去做真正案子的核心的事情\n\n06:05.575 --> 06:33.874\n結果你今天把一個到場支援的警察你和你的修理結果其他帶隊官指揮官懲辦的人你都不找那你這個很難不讓社會大眾相信說你不是政治的打手啊那這個也間接的傷害監察院在人民以及在我們心目中那個超然的地位所以我認為他的這個做法我到現在還是覺得他沒有更壞他沒有最壞只有更壞啦\n\n06:35.458 --> 06:58.368\n高永成這個傢伙沒有最壞只有更壞在繼續無暇限的在搞他的政治打擊我請教那個秘書長之前高永成委員他在偵辦那個陳榮祥的案子的時候他對檢察官曾經說你不幫我解決這個問題就是逼我要彈劾你請問你認同一個監察委員這麼高職位的監察委員對\n\n07:01.553 --> 07:17.590\n被調查人講這句話合理嗎?監察委員在約群的時候講什麼話,我沒有辦法負責任。不是要,不是,報告秘書長,不是要你負責任,是我請教你,你覺得合理嗎?我也不適合去做任何評論啦。好,那我尊重秘書長的想法。\n\n07:18.551 --> 07:40.308\n但是我個人認為這個完全不合理就像法官檢察官在問案的時候你口氣不好或罵髒話常常都被懲刑後來被處分我覺得你到那個位置就有那個位置的樣子而不是說到那個位置你就開始講一些有的沒有的甚至他對台大的台大調查台大的那個那個卡管案的時候他也是說\n\n07:41.547 --> 08:10.297\n你們不要敬酒不吃吃罰酒我覺得這個都不應該監察委員怎麼會做這種事情法廣案查的好像是違法兼職對沒錯是兼職的時候但是我覺得不管如何當時他就跳進去查要求他們出去兼職的報告嘛對不對然後他在那個案子調查的時候講那句話我覺得也不妥就像我警察官我再辦一個殺人案就算這個人真正是殺人犯監視自己底下殺人我們也不會去對他講一些有的沒有的啦該怎麼查就怎麼查的一切是依照程序來\n\n08:11.477 --> 08:39.415\n所以我認為這個是不對的那再來就是我想請教一下以前那個陳思夢阿他也曾經講過說他要去他要去辦那些什麼他要去查那些什麼專辦律不辦懶的那些法官那好吧我本來想請教你說你認為這句話合不合理我想說民主黨你的意思應該還是不便發表意見對委員的任何發言我們都不便做評論那陳思夢委員現在也不在監察院\n\n08:41.675 --> 09:05.871\n那是齁這個畢竟這個監察他是一個還是有連貫性的啦那我的意思只是說其實我一直不認同監察委員他利用執行監察職務的這個時候去做一些或替某些人或某些政黨去做一些服務我想今天不管誰執政我想秘書長您的想法一樣您當年的想法也是這樣子嘛那我們看一下齁其實\n\n09:08.618 --> 09:35.323\n最後我們看一下您的臉書其實我覺得我們如果說把這些一些東西我們稍微改寫稍微思考一下其實跟我們現在的說辭跟您當年臉書的內容其實一模一樣我們都認為監察權不應該置意妄為甚至我們認為監察院根本就應該要廢掉或停止它的運作否則\n\n09:36.603 --> 09:52.296\n這段時間以來你看這些離譜的監察委員他們這麼的自願自甘作為政治的打手但是在對於民生有重大關聯性的案子卻都看不到他們的身影\n\n09:53.524 --> 09:53.544\n吳宗憲\n\n10:14.195 --> 10:39.196\n我必須講一個這個只會讓監察院跟監察委員在人民心目中的印象越來越不好就像我很討厭檢察官法官裡面一些害群之馬他利用辦案子利用司法在做自己想做的事或為特定的公司為特定的政治人物護航這件我也看不起有機會揪出來我會狠狠地修理他們但是監察委員也是立法委員也是我覺得我們\n\n10:40.317 --> 11:05.857\n還是必須依據憲法的設計在做我們該做的事情我現在的想法跟秘書長您當年在擔任立委的時候您的想法我現在想法還是一樣啊我現在想法還是一樣只是我對委員的不便做任何評論是謝謝秘書長認同啦但是我可以接受您說不便做任何評論因為我可以理解獨立行使監察權的這個概念\n\n11:09.658 --> 11:19.832\n最後我還是麻煩一下秘書長今天能夠再把這個話能夠帶給高委員就是跟他講就好我們也無權干涉監察院內部怎麼運作但是\n\n11:23.919 --> 11:43.251\n真的是苦口婆心麻煩秘書長告訴高委員凡事我覺得適可而止就好因為現在資訊很發達你先做一件事情合不合理適不適當我覺得全民都會有眼睛在那邊看對當年的陳榮祥這樣對後來的侯友宜這樣我坐在旁邊看我都看不下去\n\n11:44.292 --> 11:44.312\n吳宗憲\n\n12:06.937 --> 12:07.037\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.209,"end":10.07,"text":"好謝謝那我們麻煩秘書長"},{"start":15.407,"end":31.196,"text":"吳委員早我上一次跟您質詢的時候有跟您提到幾個案子主要就是提到當初檢察官陳榮祥被監察委員高永成"},{"start":35.331,"end":48.483,"text":"當時彈劾他的那個案子當然當時秘書長有說這個是監察權的獨立行使當時秘書長也有說會回去跟他們至少講一下這件事情"},{"start":49.364,"end":62.262,"text":"那我覺得這段時間以來那其實草野都一直有人提說希望廢除監察院或者是讓他暫時不運作我想一直都有這個聲音出來"},{"start":66.574,"end":91.779,"text":"這段時間呢我覺得其實這個也是秘書長以前的核心理念啦我想這應該沒講錯啦那這段時間我覺得看起來有一些監察委員還是置意妄為甚至淪為政府打擊議席的東廠當然我現在先說個別委員秘書長我絕對沒有說監察院或說秘書長您而是就個別委員"},{"start":92.859,"end":92.979,"text":"主席"},{"start":105.356,"end":122.237,"text":"秘書長您之前的一些修法還有相關的政見其實我這樣直接回過頭去看您臉書的一些內容我覺得都非常的認同那是不是說我們在廢除監察院之前我們應該是共同來找出這些監察院裡面的這個害群之馬"},{"start":122.978,"end":123.338,"text":"監察委員徐巧芯"},{"start":145.728,"end":156.458,"text":"監察委員獨立行使職權我們很難對他有什麼樣的動作但是我以個人的經驗我有時候會跟委員做一些討論我們會是做建議這樣"},{"start":160.687,"end":183.953,"text":"這是您之前的臉書嗎?當年您擔任立委前輩的學長的時候,監察院的部分也是提了很多自己的意見我當立委的時候有提過修憲案,我主張被除監察院所以我剛剛說,我有去看了一下民主黨您之前的一些看法"},{"start":186.714,"end":207.147,"text":"憲法徵修條文第7條第5項其實他講得很清楚監察委員必須超出黨派之外依據法律獨立行使職權但是呢這段時間我就說啦高永成委員光這一位委員他一路以來從陳榮祥的案子那個案子我覺得我到現在"},{"start":208.487,"end":229.654,"text":"當時這個案子發生的時候我還是檢察官那我必須跟你們報告一件事情檢察官協會非常不諒解這件事情檢察官協會是代表全國上千位的檢察官他非常非常非常不諒解這件事我是檢察官的一員我也非常不諒解這件事情我覺得高榮成委員這個監察委員是完全"},{"start":231.394,"end":260.527,"text":"我可以說是毀憲亂政套一句柯總召的說法叫毀憲亂政憲法徵修條文第7條第5項明白的說監察委員要超出黨派但是這位高永成委員總是替某些特定人打擊異己這是非常非常不應該這個才叫做毀憲亂政當然特定監察委員不是全部的這段時間尤其是陳榮祥的案子"},{"start":262.277,"end":271.89,"text":"陳東祥所做出來的做法因為在這樣子啦 曲棍球這個案子不管一審 二審 三審 跟再審的法院的判決"},{"start":273.274,"end":273.294,"text":"吳宗憲"},{"start":303.935,"end":321.734,"text":"陳榮祥的案子之外﹖卡管案他也出現了﹖林志傑論文案的余政煌他也出現了﹖再加上前兩個禮拜的侯友宜的案子他也出現了﹖真的難以想像一個監察委員放著政事不幹這段時間的問題呢﹖"},{"start":324.053,"end":324.073,"text":"吳宗憲"},{"start":342.236,"end":364.774,"text":"小警察 我不懂這個意思啦至少我自己在指揮偵辦案件的時候我非常的清楚偵辦的警察到某一個轄區去偵辦處理案件執行案件的時候都會知會當地分局到場協助那他們到場協助都是做一些知違末節的事情甚至只是維護交通他們不會去做真正案子的核心的事情"},{"start":365.575,"end":393.874,"text":"結果你今天把一個到場支援的警察你和你的修理結果其他帶隊官指揮官懲辦的人你都不找那你這個很難不讓社會大眾相信說你不是政治的打手啊那這個也間接的傷害監察院在人民以及在我們心目中那個超然的地位所以我認為他的這個做法我到現在還是覺得他沒有更壞他沒有最壞只有更壞啦"},{"start":395.458,"end":418.368,"text":"高永成這個傢伙沒有最壞只有更壞在繼續無暇限的在搞他的政治打擊我請教那個秘書長之前高永成委員他在偵辦那個陳榮祥的案子的時候他對檢察官曾經說你不幫我解決這個問題就是逼我要彈劾你請問你認同一個監察委員這麼高職位的監察委員對"},{"start":421.553,"end":437.59,"text":"被調查人講這句話合理嗎?監察委員在約群的時候講什麼話,我沒有辦法負責任。不是要,不是,報告秘書長,不是要你負責任,是我請教你,你覺得合理嗎?我也不適合去做任何評論啦。好,那我尊重秘書長的想法。"},{"start":438.551,"end":460.308,"text":"但是我個人認為這個完全不合理就像法官檢察官在問案的時候你口氣不好或罵髒話常常都被懲刑後來被處分我覺得你到那個位置就有那個位置的樣子而不是說到那個位置你就開始講一些有的沒有的甚至他對台大的台大調查台大的那個那個卡管案的時候他也是說"},{"start":461.547,"end":490.297,"text":"你們不要敬酒不吃吃罰酒我覺得這個都不應該監察委員怎麼會做這種事情法廣案查的好像是違法兼職對沒錯是兼職的時候但是我覺得不管如何當時他就跳進去查要求他們出去兼職的報告嘛對不對然後他在那個案子調查的時候講那句話我覺得也不妥就像我警察官我再辦一個殺人案就算這個人真正是殺人犯監視自己底下殺人我們也不會去對他講一些有的沒有的啦該怎麼查就怎麼查的一切是依照程序來"},{"start":491.477,"end":519.415,"text":"所以我認為這個是不對的那再來就是我想請教一下以前那個陳思夢阿他也曾經講過說他要去他要去辦那些什麼他要去查那些什麼專辦律不辦懶的那些法官那好吧我本來想請教你說你認為這句話合不合理我想說民主黨你的意思應該還是不便發表意見對委員的任何發言我們都不便做評論那陳思夢委員現在也不在監察院"},{"start":521.675,"end":545.871,"text":"那是齁 這個畢竟這個監察他是一個還是有連貫性的啦那我的意思只是說其實我一直不認同監察委員他利用執行監察職務的這個時候去做一些或替某些人或某些政黨去做一些服務我想今天不管誰執政我想秘書長您的想法一樣您當年的想法也是這樣子嘛那我們看一下齁其實"},{"start":548.618,"end":575.323,"text":"最後我們看一下您的臉書其實我覺得我們如果說把這些一些東西我們稍微改寫稍微思考一下其實跟我們現在的說辭跟您當年臉書的內容其實一模一樣我們都認為監察權不應該置意妄為甚至我們認為監察院根本就應該要廢掉或停止它的運作否則"},{"start":576.603,"end":592.296,"text":"這段時間以來你看這些離譜的監察委員他們這麼的自願自甘作為政治的打手但是在對於民生有重大關聯性的案子卻都看不到他們的身影"},{"start":593.524,"end":593.544,"text":"吳宗憲"},{"start":614.195,"end":639.196,"text":"我必須講一個 這個只會讓監察院跟監察委員在人民心目中的印象越來越不好就像我很討厭檢察官法官裡面一些害群之馬他利用辦案子 利用司法在做自己想做的事或為特定的公司 為特定的政治人物護航 這件我也看不起有機會揪出來 我會狠狠地修理他們但是監察委員也是 立法委員也是 我覺得我們"},{"start":640.317,"end":665.857,"text":"還是必須依據憲法的設計在做我們該做的事情我現在的想法跟秘書長您當年在擔任立委的時候您的想法我現在想法還是一樣啊我現在想法還是一樣只是我對委員的不便做任何評論是 謝謝秘書長認同啦但是我可以接受您說不便做任何評論因為我可以理解獨立行使監察權的這個概念"},{"start":669.658,"end":679.832,"text":"最後我還是麻煩一下秘書長今天能夠再把這個話能夠帶給高委員就是跟他講就好我們也無權干涉監察院內部怎麼運作但是"},{"start":683.919,"end":703.251,"text":"真的是苦口婆心麻煩秘書長告訴高委員凡事我覺得適可而止就好因為現在資訊很發達你先做一件事情合不合理適不適當我覺得全民都會有眼睛在那邊看對當年的陳榮祥這樣對後來的侯友宜這樣我坐在旁邊看我都看不下去"},{"start":704.292,"end":704.312,"text":"吳宗憲"},{"start":726.937,"end":727.037,"text":"主席"}]}}}}