{"id":151836,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151836","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e90f54132b1096e62f2be8040fcb7ff7054712d423581dcc34e2527b10508eeee69a6ec2f04dbdd85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳秀寳","委員發言時間":"10:41:07 - 10:52:00","影片長度":"00:10:53","會議時間":"2024-04-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請文化部、教育部、內政部、法務部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部及行政院主計總處列席就「表演及運動賽事黃牛票氾濫，相關單位取締、防範及執法成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢。（4月29日及5月2日二天一次會））","date":"2024-04-29","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-10"},"duration":653,"end_time":"2024-04-29T10:52:00+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-29T10:41:07+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":571,"blocks":[["陳委員秀寳：（10時41分）謝謝主席，請次長。"],["主席：請次長。"],["王次長時思：委員好。"],["陳委員秀寳：次長早。其實打擊黃牛票，不管是公部門還是民眾，這是大家的共識，那我們教文委員會的委員，包括本席也都有提文創法修法的版本，在去年的5月三讀通過，到現在將近一年，也是剛好在這個時候來檢視這段時間的成效。根據文化部提供的資料來看，到4月15號截止，對於不正方式取得票券的部分131件，然後加價轉售的檢舉案件有2,105件，在形式要件齊備的件數609件裡面，有300件是已經調查完畢，309件在調查中，但是在300件調查完畢的案件裡面，只有裁罰30件，比例只有10%。次長，這個比例的差異可以說明一下，你看這樣的比例，民眾會不會覺得根本就是雷聲大雨點小，公部門就是說說而已，並不是真的很積極的在處理？"],["王次長時思：應該不是，應該是說因為檢舉進來的案件，很多可能沒有真的發生交易，就是他有這樣的行為，但是並沒有真的發生交易，所以可能查察到後來沒有辦法有裁處的對象等等，或者是有在其他調查裡面發現其實不見得是真的加價，譬如它是小額的，然後是代購的行為，或者是必要的費用等等，我想會有很多的樣態，導致最後真正能夠裁罰的件數比較低。"],["陳委員秀寳：其實這個部分本席的重點並不是在於裁罰的件數要多，好像在拼績效一樣，但是這個部分就是一個態度，我們對於查緝黃牛票的態度。","接下來我再請教一下次長，臉書上很多讓票、換票這樣的社團，本席上去看了一下，這些社團很多貼文都還宣稱是保證有票，所以很多網友的留言很不滿啊！其中也是有討論說為什麼保證有票，你們是怎麼做到保證有票？或者是不是應該可以來檢舉這樣的言論？文化部你們覺得保證有票有沒有黃牛票的疑慮？"],["王次長時思：它有這樣的嫌疑。"],["陳委員秀寳：嫌疑？"],["王次長時思：對，但是如果真的要偵辦，真的還是因為罪刑法定的限制，還是要確認他所觸犯的跟他所主張的是一致的，就是他真的有所謂賣票，而且是高價。"],["陳委員秀寳：次長，當然就是我們覺得他有這樣的嫌疑，但成不成立，或是如何查、怎麼查，這個部分還是有一些技術上的問題。裁罰比例只有10%，造成民眾的疑慮，我剛剛有強調過，其實我沒有硬性規定我們一定要提高裁罰的件數，我是尊重文化部以及地方縣市政府裁量的權限，但是保證有票這樣的言論，我也覺得文化部應該有你們的立場。另外，關於所謂代辦費、手續費，文化部是不是一致的認定，這個有沒有違反文化部的文創法？所以你們的立場、你們的態度是不是明確？我覺得這個非常的要緊。次長，您覺得？"],["王次長時思：代購費用的部分是這樣，因為代購費的前提是它是一個約定行為嘛！就是我跟你約好，你幫我買，所以第一個可能要事前發生才叫做代購，並不能是事後，那個就叫做販售了。至於在販售的部分，如果他說販售的加價金額是必要金額，必要金額指的意思是說，譬如是由第三方收受的，譬如郵寄費用、交通費用，因為要交付，這個費用我們認為是一個合理費用的範圍，但超出這個費用基本上都是算加價。"],["陳委員秀寳：次長，沒關係，有關這個部分，我可以再跟你們討論對這個的認定，或者說在這個地方要怎麼讓民眾不再懷疑文化部是不是真的有打擊黃牛票的決心。在文創法修法過後，即便今天在你們的報告裡面，而且你在答詢中都覺得黃牛票的情況有改善了，但是在想要參與這樣的演出還是需要搶票這些民眾的眼裡，他們覺得黃牛一樣非常猖獗，所以也出現要檢討如何再改革的聲音，近期迴響比較熱烈的就是日本藝人宇多田光的演唱會是採抽票制與實名制雙軌並進的方式讓民眾覺得最支持，本席也稍微看了一下國際間的作法，日本是用抽籤的方式；韓國是統一票價搭配購票、取票到入場三階段的實名制；美國的部分是採動態定價，讓演出者可以隨時調整票價的售票方式。這邊要請教次長，您覺得我們目前業界所採取的主流售票機制有沒有可能變更成日本的抽籤制？或者應該說你本人、你本身支持嗎？"],["王次長時思：跟委員說我們很羨慕，就是我們覺得如果售票平台跟主辦單位願意採取這些方式，其實才會根本的解決黃牛問題，……"],["陳委員秀寳：所以其實您也是支持的？"],["王次長時思：非常支持。"],["陳委員秀寳：如果說我們技術上是可以的話。"],["王次長時思：對，現在臺灣的問題就是目前其實沒有強制性的法源，所以我們都只能用勸導的、輔導的、跟他們洽談的，但是他們要不要採取，因為採取各種的方式會增加不同的成本……"],["陳委員秀寳：本席在這邊為什麼會提到要改變我們主流售票的機制，也是因為新聞報導有竹科工程師分享他自行開發的軟體，他的說法是讓民眾跟黃牛站在同一個起跑點一起來搶票，用魔法對抗魔法，他也說他認為售票業者應該採實名制加抽票制，這樣才能真正的杜絕黃牛。本席並不認同他所謂以魔法對抗魔法這樣的論點，但是他提到了核心問題，他的看法是實名制加抽票制才能真正的杜絕黃牛，這樣的說法是我們應該要去思考跟改變的。這邊再一次請教文化部，如果我們支持臺灣主流的售票模式，可以真的朝著實名制跟抽票制這個制度來走的話，我們有怎樣的規劃可以來輔導或者是跟業者討論？"],["王次長時思：如果真的要改成實名制加抽籤這一類的新制度，如果是強制的話，還是需要一個法源，不然我們就只能用現在的方式，也就是跟售票平台溝通，跟主辦單位溝通，但是最後要不要採取仍然是取決於主辦單位，這是目前的困境。"],["陳委員秀寳：這個部分我也希望你們可以努力跟業者協調與溝通，因為如果真的要讓民眾有一個比較公平的機會來參與這樣的演出，黃牛票的存在真的是會讓大家覺得是不是公部門執法不力，你們就是對這個部分沒有重視。","另外針對數發部的部分，數發部現在不用上台回答，但是我在這邊提出要求，如果現行的售票業者的系統很容易被這樣的程式入侵，表示他們的資安系統就是不夠強固，所以我也希望數發部可以協助這些售票業者來強化他們整個的安全防範。我在這邊提出要求，針對業者的售票系統的強化以及售票模式的轉變，希望文化部、體育署、數發部應該跨部會合作，然後跟業者來協調，能夠有共識，希望共同來推進我國售票模式的轉變以及強化我們的售票系統，所以我要要求文化部、體育署跟數發部提供給本席關於剛才這個建議的可行性的書面說明，我們也要展現打擊黃牛票的決心，好嗎？"],["王次長時思：好的，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員秀寳：好，謝謝。","主席，再給我一點點時間，我請一下體育署長。"],["主席：好，請署長。"],["鄭署長世忠：委員好。"],["陳委員秀寳：好，我儘快的講，因為我跟主席借的時間喔！4月25號的新聞關於全中運有游泳選手在熱身的時候不慎跳水，然後就直接被禁賽，是嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，有關這個部分，他是在現場被取消資格，至於禁賽的部分是程序不完備，所以我們不會把他禁賽。"],["陳委員秀寳：所以他在那一場的比賽資格被取消了？"],["鄭署長世忠：對。"],["陳委員秀寳：但是以後參加比賽並沒有被禁？"],["鄭署長世忠：沒有。"],["陳委員秀寳：當時教練也反酸說這是臺灣獨創的，一般國外並沒有規定一定要坐姿下水，是嗎？國外有這樣的規定嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，國際的規則是不能在那個場域去做跳水的動作，要求要以腳先入水的方式進行，協會把它擴大解釋成任何形式的跳水都要取消資格。"],["陳委員秀寳：我們看一下比賽應該遵守的事項，規定是「全面禁止任何形式之跳水」，為什麼這樣規定？是因為要避免發生肢體碰撞有意外跟危險，未遵守者依照競賽規程第三十六條來辦理。我們來看一下競賽規程第三十六條，這個規定寫得非常一視同仁，甚至沒有針對違規的情節大小來做不同處分，在比例上你們並沒有區分，就統一是取消比賽資格或者禁賽。當然，這次的處分不可逆，但本席在這邊要說的就是，其實每一位運動選手可以去參加比賽都是經過了無數刻苦練習及訓練之後才取得這個資格，如果動不動就禁賽，其實他的運動生涯可能也就這樣終止了。針對本案，本席要求體育署應該全面檢視競賽規則、規程、章程，應該做出適當的比例調整跟處分的標準，我不去探討今天他違規的本身，但是情節重大與否跟處罰的比例應該有一個適當的標準，您覺得呢？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，這部分的主要問題出在技術手冊方面，所以這部分我已經請高中體總重新檢視，並且重新改寫，未來應該不會有這樣的問題出現了。"],["陳委員秀寳：好，謝謝署長、謝謝主席。"],["鄭署長世忠：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。我們現在先休息5分鐘。","休息（10時52分）","繼續開會（10時57分）"],["主席：好，現在繼續開會。接下來請林宜瑾委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":310,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-10","speakers":["柯志恩","萬美玲","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","葛如鈞","葉元之","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","范雲","張雅琳","吳春城","羅廷瑋","黃珊珊","黃捷","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","邱志偉","張啓楷","羅智強","林倩綺","林楚茵","劉建國"],"page_start":243,"meetingDate":["2024-04-29"],"gazette_id":"1133901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133901_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請文化部、教育部、內政部、法務部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部及行政院主計總處列\n席就「表演及運動賽事黃牛票氾濫，相關單位取締、防範及執法成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1133901_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"151836","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151836","tool":"pyannote","id":"151836-pyannote"},"job_id":"MRQoU2gKCmQYhoTE","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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\"但是在民眾他想要參與這樣子的演出他們還是需要搶票的這些民眾的眼裡他們覺得說黃牛是一樣是非常猖獗所以也出現了說我們如何在我們要檢討如何再改革的這樣的聲音那近期迴響比較熱烈的部分就是日本藝人與多田光的演唱會他是採抽票制與行民制雙軌並進的這個方式讓民眾覺得最支持那本席也稍微看了一下國際間的做法日本他是用抽籤的方式那韓國是統一票價搭配那個\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 265.902, \"end\": 266.042, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 266.042, \"end\": 266.202, \"score\": 0.755}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 266.202, \"end\": 266.782, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 266.782, \"end\": 267.103, \"score\": 0.636}, {\"word\": \"眾\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 267.103, \"end\": 267.263, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 267.263, \"end\": 267.903, \"score\": 0.696}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 267.903, \"end\": 268.183, \"score\": 0.768}, {\"word\": \"參\"}, {\"word\": \"與\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 268.183, \"end\": 268.303, \"score\": 0.739}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 268.303, \"end\": 268.443, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"演\", \"start\": 268.443, \"end\": 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{\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 289.133, \"end\": 289.713, \"score\": 0.755}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"際\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 289.713, \"end\": 289.833, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 289.833, \"end\": 290.114, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 290.114, \"end\": 290.634, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"日\", \"start\": 290.634, \"end\": 290.794, \"score\": 0.775}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 290.794, \"end\": 290.974, \"score\": 0.757}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 290.974, \"end\": 291.154, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 291.154, \"end\": 291.234, \"score\": 0.756}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 291.234, \"end\": 291.534, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"抽\", \"start\": 291.534, \"end\": 291.994, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"籤\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 291.994, \"end\": 292.154, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 292.154, \"end\": 292.435, \"score\": 0.769}, {\"word\": \"式\", 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\"您\", \"start\": 295.576, \"end\": 295.596, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 295.596, \"end\": 295.696, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 295.696, \"end\": 295.716, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 295.716, \"end\": 295.736, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 295.736, \"end\": 295.756, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"界\", \"start\": 295.756, \"end\": 295.776, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 295.776, \"end\": 295.817, \"score\": 0.431}, {\"word\": \"採\"}, {\"word\": \"取\", \"start\": 295.817, \"end\": 295.897, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 295.897, \"end\": 295.917, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 295.917, \"end\": 295.937, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"流\", \"start\": 295.937, \"end\": 295.957, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"售\", \"start\": 295.957, \"end\": 295.977, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"票\", \"start\": 295.977, \"end\": 296.117, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 296.117, \"end\": 296.137, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 296.137, \"end\": 296.237, \"score\": 0.761}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 296.237, \"end\": 296.337, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 296.337, \"end\": 296.357, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 296.357, \"end\": 296.377, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 296.377, \"end\": 296.417, \"score\": 0.352}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 296.417, \"end\": 296.437, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 296.437, \"end\": 296.617, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"日\", \"start\": 296.617, \"end\": 296.798, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 296.798, \"end\": 296.818, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 296.818, \"end\": 296.838, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"抽\", \"start\": 296.838, \"end\": 296.938, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"籤\"}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 296.938, \"end\": 296.958, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 315.157, \"end\": 322.16, \"text\": \"跟委員說我們很羨慕啦就是我們覺得如果售票平台跟主辦單位願意採取這些方式其實才會根本的解決黃牛問題所以其實您也是支持的如果說我們技術上是可以的話對就是說現在的台灣的問題就是說現在目前其實沒有強制性的法源所以我們都只能用勸導的然後用輔導的跟他們洽談的但是他們要不要採取因為他採取各種的方式他會增加不同的成本\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 315.157, \"end\": 315.177, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 315.177, \"end\": 315.197, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 315.197, \"end\": 315.237, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 315.237, \"end\": 315.257, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"羨\"}, {\"word\": \"慕\", \"start\": 315.257, \"end\": 315.277, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 315.277, \"end\": 315.297, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 315.297, \"end\": 315.317, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 315.317, \"end\": 315.417, \"score\": 0.451}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 315.417, \"end\": 315.437, 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\"end\": 635.69, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"準\", \"start\": 635.69, \"end\": 635.71, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 640.375, \"end\": 640.615, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 640.615, \"end\": 641.136, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 641.136, \"end\": 641.216, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 641.216, \"end\": 641.437, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 641.437, \"end\": 641.537, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 641.537, \"end\": 642.018, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 642.018, \"end\": 642.138, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 642.138, \"end\": 642.338, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"技\", \"start\": 642.338, \"end\": 642.639, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"術\"}, {\"word\": \"手\", \"start\": 642.639, \"end\": 643.04, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"冊\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 643.04, \"end\": 643.16, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 643.16, \"end\": 643.36, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 643.36, \"end\": 643.501, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 643.501, \"end\": 643.601, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 643.601, \"end\": 643.681, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 643.681, \"end\": 643.761, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 643.761, \"end\": 644.603, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 644.603, \"end\": 644.763, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 644.763, \"end\": 645.043, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 645.043, \"end\": 645.224, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 645.224, \"end\": 645.484, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 645.484, \"end\": 646.426, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"視\"}, {\"word\": \"並\"}, {\"word\": \"且\", \"start\": 646.426, \"end\": 646.586, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 646.586, \"end\": 646.747, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 646.747, \"end\": 646.887, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 646.887, \"end\": 647.007, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"改\", \"start\": 647.007, \"end\": 647.608, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"寫\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 647.608, \"end\": 647.929, \"score\": 0.731}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 647.929, \"end\": 648.45, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 648.45, \"end\": 648.55, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 648.55, \"end\": 648.63, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 648.63, \"end\": 648.65, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 648.65, \"end\": 648.731, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 648.731, \"end\": 648.771, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 648.771, \"end\": 648.811, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 648.811, \"end\": 648.831, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 648.831, \"end\": 648.851, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 648.851, \"end\": 648.871, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 648.871, \"end\": 648.891, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,590 --> 00:00:09,103\n請陳秀寳委員陳秀寳委員質詢完畢之後我們就休息5分鐘謝主席這邊請次長好次長謝謝\n\n2\n00:00:16,011 --> 00:00:35,135\n市長早其實打擊黃牛票不管是公部門還是大家民眾這是大家的共識那我們教育委員會的委員包括本席也都有提文創法的修法的版本在去年的5月三讀通過那到現在將近一年也是剛好在這個時候來檢視這段時間的成效\n\n3\n00:00:37,956 --> 00:00:52,449\n根據文化部提供的資料來看．4月15日截止．對於不正方式取得票券的部分．131件．加價轉售的案件檢舉案件有2105件．在刑事要件齊備的件數609件．有300件是已經調查完畢．309件在調查中．\n\n4\n00:01:01,297 --> 00:01:19,164\n但是呢在300件的這個調查完畢的這個案件裡面只有裁罰30件比例只有10%喔次長這個比例這個差異可以說明一下你看這樣的比例民眾會不會覺得說根本就是雷聲大雨點小公部門就是說說也並不是真的很積極的在處理應該不是應該是說\n\n5\n00:01:23,146 --> 00:01:47,714\n因為檢舉進來的案件很多他可能沒有真的發生交易就是說他有這樣的行為但是他並沒有真的發生交易所以他的查查可能到後來沒有辦法有採取的對象等等那或者是有其他在調查裡面發現他其實不見得是真的加價譬如說他是小額的然後他是代購的行為或者是他是必要的費用等等我想會有很多的樣態導致他最後真正能夠裁罰的件數比較低\n\n6\n00:01:50,095 --> 00:01:55,102\n這個部分其實本席並不是重點說在於說要採訪的件數要多好像在拼績效一樣但是這個部分就是一個態度對我們對於掐氣黃牛票的這個態度接下來這邊我再請一下市長\n\n7\n00:02:05,215 --> 00:02:26,643\n臉書上的很多社團是說讓票換票的這樣的社團那本席上去看了一下這些社團很多天文都還宣稱是保證有票所以很多網友去留言是很不滿啊其中也是有討論說為什麼保證有票你們是怎麼做到保證有票那或者說這個是不是應該要符合有可以來檢舉這樣的言論那文化部你們覺得說保證有票這個有沒有黃牛票的疑慮\n\n8\n00:02:33,783 --> 00:02:38,104\n市長當然就是說我們覺得他有這樣的嫌疑但他查他成不成立或說如何查怎麼查這個部分還是有一些技術上的問題喔\n\n9\n00:02:57,530 --> 00:03:16,089\n那財閥比例只有10%這個造成民眾的疑慮我剛剛有強調過其實我沒有硬性規定說我們一定要提高這個財閥的這個件數我是尊重說文化部這邊以及地方縣市政府的財量的權限但是保證有票這樣的言論呢我也覺得說文化部應該有你們的立場\n\n10\n00:03:16,670 --> 00:03:16,810\n代購費用\n\n11\n00:03:34,980 --> 00:04:03,363\n的前提是他是一個約定行為嘛就是我跟你約好你幫我買所以第一個他可能要事前發生才叫做代購所以並不能是事後的那個就叫做販售了那基於在販售的這個部分如果他販售的加價的金額是說他是必要金額必要金額的指的意思就是說譬如他是由第三方收受的比如說他的郵寄費用他的交通費用因為要交付嘛這個費用我們會被認為說欸他是一個合理的費用範圍但超出這個費用基本上都是算加價的\n\n12\n00:04:04,364 --> 00:04:07,947\n市長沒關係這個部分我可以再跟你們來討論說對這個的認定或者說在這個地方我們怎麼去讓民眾不再去懷疑我們文化部是不是正有打擊黃牛票的決心那在我們在文創法修法過後即便說你們今天在你們報告裡面而且你在答詢中都覺得說黃牛票的這個情況是有改善的\n\n13\n00:04:25,902 --> 00:04:54,716\n但是在民眾他想要參與這樣子的演出他們還是需要搶票的這些民眾的眼裡他們覺得說黃牛是一樣是非常猖獗所以也出現了說我們如何在我們要檢討如何再改革的這樣的聲音那近期迴響比較熱烈的部分就是日本藝人與多田光的演唱會他是採抽票制與行民制雙軌並進的這個方式讓民眾覺得最支持那本席也稍微看了一下國際間的做法日本他是用抽籤的方式那韓國是統一票價搭配那個\n\n14\n00:04:55,416 --> 00:04:56,958\n請教次長,您覺得我們目前業界所採取的主流售票機制有沒有可能變更成日本的抽籤制?\n\n15\n00:05:15,157 --> 00:05:22,160\n跟委員說我們很羨慕啦就是我們覺得如果售票平台跟主辦單位願意採取這些方式其實才會根本的解決黃牛問題所以其實您也是支持的如果說我們技術上是可以的話對就是說現在的台灣的問題就是說現在目前其實沒有強制性的法源所以我們都只能用勸導的然後用輔導的跟他們洽談的但是他們要不要採取因為他採取各種的方式他會增加不同的成本\n\n16\n00:05:42,867 --> 00:05:50,276\n您在這邊為什麼會提到說我們要改變我們主流售票的機制也是因為有新聞上就是這個祖科工程師他自己開發的這個軟體就是讓民眾可以跟他所謂的讓民眾跟黃牛站在同一個跑艇一起來搶票用魔法對抗魔法這樣的說法\n\n17\n00:06:01,169 --> 00:06:01,429\n再次請教文化部．\n\n18\n00:06:27,790 --> 00:06:28,851\n如果說我們支持這個臺灣主流的這個售票模式可以真的朝著實名制跟抽票制這個制度來走的話我們有怎樣的規劃可以來輔導或者說來跟業者討論\n\n19\n00:06:44,139 --> 00:07:03,441\n如果要做這個真的要改成實名自家抽籤這一類的新的制度的話他主要如果是強制的話他還是需要一個法源不然我們就只能用現在的方式就是說跟售票平台溝通跟主辦單位溝通但是最後要不要採取仍然是取決於主辦單位這是目前的一個困境\n\n20\n00:07:04,362 --> 00:07:30,816\n這個部分我也希望說你們可以努力的去跟業者這邊來做協調做溝通因為如果說真的要讓我們的民眾有一個比較公平的機會來參與這樣的演出黃牛票的存在真的是會讓大家覺得說是不是公務部門你們這邊執法不力你們就是對這個部分沒有重視那在這邊我也要因為訴報部你不用回答我但是我請我這邊要要求如果說現行的售票業者\n\n21\n00:07:31,656 --> 00:07:39,978\n他們因為他們的系統很容易被這樣的城市入侵的話表示說他們的治安的這個系統就是不夠強固所以這邊我也希望說我們數法部這邊可以協助這些售票業者來強化他們的整個的安全的防範\n\n22\n00:07:48,641 --> 00:07:53,303\n那在這邊我要要求文化部就是說針對我們業者的售票系統的強化以及售票模式的轉變這部分希望文化部、體育署、數發部你們這邊應該跨部會的合作然後跟業者來協調能夠有共識希望共同來推進我國售票模式的轉變以及強化我們的售票系統\n\n23\n00:08:10,049 --> 00:08:28,643\n那所以我要要求我希望說文化部、體育署跟書發部呢可以提供給本席關於剛才的這個建議可行性空間的這個書面說明喔我們也要展現我們打擊黃牛票的決心好嗎好的謝謝委員好謝謝那個主席再給我一點點時間我請一下那個體育署長好體育署長署長\n\n24\n00:08:36,292 --> 00:08:44,337\n4月25日的新聞關於全中運有游泳選手他在熱身的時候不慎跳水那直接被禁賽是嗎\n\n25\n00:08:46,380 --> 00:09:10,001\n報告委員這部分他是在現場被取消資格但是他的競賽這部分是程序不完備所以我們沒有不會幫他競賽所以那一場的比賽資格他被取消但是事後以後參加的比賽並沒有被禁沒有那當時教練也反甩說這台灣獨創一般國外並沒有規定說一定要坐之下水是嗎國外有這樣的規定嗎\n\n26\n00:09:11,170 --> 00:09:26,804\n報告委員國際的規則是講不能在那個場域去做跳水的動作但是要求要以腳先入水的方式進行那協會這邊他把它擴大解釋成就是任何形式的跳水都把它算是取消資格\n\n27\n00:09:27,244 --> 00:09:49,887\n我們看一下比賽應該遵守的事項他是說全面禁止任何形式的跳水那為什麼這樣規定是因為說避免發生肢體碰撞有意外跟危險那依照競賽規程第36條來辦理那我們看一下你們的競賽規程第36條寫得非常一視同仁甚至沒有針對違規的情節重大於大小來做不同處分這個\n\n28\n00:09:50,708 --> 00:09:57,669\n這次的處分不可逆本席這邊要問的就是說其實每一位運動選手他可以去參加比賽他就是已經經過了無數的刻苦的練習訓練之後才有取得這個資格如果說我們動不動的就是這樣子就是競賽那其實他的運動生涯可能有就這樣子就終止了\n\n29\n00:10:16,013 --> 00:10:35,710\n所以真的本案這邊本席要求體育署我們應該前面的檢視競賽規則規程章程應該做出適當的比例調整跟處分的標準我不去探討說今天他違規的這個本身但是請解重大與否跟處置這個處罰的這個比例應該有一個適當的這個標準\n\n30\n00:10:40,375 --> 00:10:48,891\n法務委員這部分主要問題出在技術手冊方面所以這部分我已經請高中體總重新檢視並且重新的改寫那這邊未來應該不會有再那種問題出現了好謝謝署長謝謝委員好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n590\t9103\t請陳秀寳委員陳秀寳委員質詢完畢之後我們就休息5分鐘謝主席這邊請次長好次長謝謝\n16011\t35135\t市長早其實打擊黃牛票不管是公部門還是大家民眾這是大家的共識那我們教育委員會的委員包括本席也都有提文創法的修法的版本在去年的5月三讀通過那到現在將近一年也是剛好在這個時候來檢視這段時間的成效\n37956\t52449\t根據文化部提供的資料來看．4月15日截止．對於不正方式取得票券的部分．131件．加價轉售的案件檢舉案件有2105件．在刑事要件齊備的件數609件．有300件是已經調查完畢．309件在調查中．\n61297\t79164\t但是呢在300件的這個調查完畢的這個案件裡面只有裁罰30件比例只有10%喔次長這個比例這個差異可以說明一下你看這樣的比例民眾會不會覺得說根本就是雷聲大雨點小公部門就是說說也並不是真的很積極的在處理應該不是應該是說\n83146\t107714\t因為檢舉進來的案件很多他可能沒有真的發生交易就是說他有這樣的行為但是他並沒有真的發生交易所以他的查查可能到後來沒有辦法有採取的對象等等那或者是有其他在調查裡面發現他其實不見得是真的加價譬如說他是小額的然後他是代購的行為或者是他是必要的費用等等我想會有很多的樣態導致他最後真正能夠裁罰的件數比較低\n110095\t115102\t這個部分其實本席並不是重點說在於說要採訪的件數要多好像在拼績效一樣但是這個部分就是一個態度對我們對於掐氣黃牛票的這個態度接下來這邊我再請一下市長\n125215\t146643\t臉書上的很多社團是說讓票換票的這樣的社團那本席上去看了一下這些社團很多天文都還宣稱是保證有票所以很多網友去留言是很不滿啊其中也是有討論說為什麼保證有票你們是怎麼做到保證有票那或者說這個是不是應該要符合有可以來檢舉這樣的言論那文化部你們覺得說保證有票這個有沒有黃牛票的疑慮\n153783\t158104\t市長當然就是說我們覺得他有這樣的嫌疑但他查他成不成立或說如何查怎麼查這個部分還是有一些技術上的問題喔\n177530\t196089\t那財閥比例只有10%這個造成民眾的疑慮我剛剛有強調過其實我沒有硬性規定說我們一定要提高這個財閥的這個件數我是尊重說文化部這邊以及地方縣市政府的財量的權限但是保證有票這樣的言論呢我也覺得說文化部應該有你們的立場\n196670\t196810\t代購費用\n214980\t243363\t的前提是他是一個約定行為嘛就是我跟你約好你幫我買所以第一個他可能要事前發生才叫做代購所以並不能是事後的那個就叫做販售了那基於在販售的這個部分如果他販售的加價的金額是說他是必要金額必要金額的指的意思就是說譬如他是由第三方收受的比如說他的郵寄費用他的交通費用因為要交付嘛這個費用我們會被認為說欸他是一個合理的費用範圍但超出這個費用基本上都是算加價的\n244364\t247947\t市長沒關係這個部分我可以再跟你們來討論說對這個的認定或者說在這個地方我們怎麼去讓民眾不再去懷疑我們文化部是不是正有打擊黃牛票的決心那在我們在文創法修法過後即便說你們今天在你們報告裡面而且你在答詢中都覺得說黃牛票的這個情況是有改善的\n265902\t294716\t但是在民眾他想要參與這樣子的演出他們還是需要搶票的這些民眾的眼裡他們覺得說黃牛是一樣是非常猖獗所以也出現了說我們如何在我們要檢討如何再改革的這樣的聲音那近期迴響比較熱烈的部分就是日本藝人與多田光的演唱會他是採抽票制與行民制雙軌並進的這個方式讓民眾覺得最支持那本席也稍微看了一下國際間的做法日本他是用抽籤的方式那韓國是統一票價搭配那個\n295416\t296958\t請教次長,您覺得我們目前業界所採取的主流售票機制有沒有可能變更成日本的抽籤制?\n315157\t322160\t跟委員說我們很羨慕啦就是我們覺得如果售票平台跟主辦單位願意採取這些方式其實才會根本的解決黃牛問題所以其實您也是支持的如果說我們技術上是可以的話對就是說現在的台灣的問題就是說現在目前其實沒有強制性的法源所以我們都只能用勸導的然後用輔導的跟他們洽談的但是他們要不要採取因為他採取各種的方式他會增加不同的成本\n342867\t350276\t您在這邊為什麼會提到說我們要改變我們主流售票的機制也是因為有新聞上就是這個祖科工程師他自己開發的這個軟體就是讓民眾可以跟他所謂的讓民眾跟黃牛站在同一個跑艇一起來搶票用魔法對抗魔法這樣的說法\n361169\t361429\t再次請教文化部．\n387790\t388851\t如果說我們支持這個臺灣主流的這個售票模式可以真的朝著實名制跟抽票制這個制度來走的話我們有怎樣的規劃可以來輔導或者說來跟業者討論\n404139\t423441\t如果要做這個真的要改成實名自家抽籤這一類的新的制度的話他主要如果是強制的話他還是需要一個法源不然我們就只能用現在的方式就是說跟售票平台溝通跟主辦單位溝通但是最後要不要採取仍然是取決於主辦單位這是目前的一個困境\n424362\t450816\t這個部分我也希望說你們可以努力的去跟業者這邊來做協調做溝通因為如果說真的要讓我們的民眾有一個比較公平的機會來參與這樣的演出黃牛票的存在真的是會讓大家覺得說是不是公務部門你們這邊執法不力你們就是對這個部分沒有重視那在這邊我也要因為訴報部你不用回答我但是我請我這邊要要求如果說現行的售票業者\n451656\t459978\t他們因為他們的系統很容易被這樣的城市入侵的話表示說他們的治安的這個系統就是不夠強固所以這邊我也希望說我們數法部這邊可以協助這些售票業者來強化他們的整個的安全的防範\n468641\t473303\t那在這邊我要要求文化部就是說針對我們業者的售票系統的強化以及售票模式的轉變這部分希望文化部、體育署、數發部你們這邊應該跨部會的合作然後跟業者來協調能夠有共識希望共同來推進我國售票模式的轉變以及強化我們的售票系統\n490049\t508643\t那所以我要要求我希望說文化部、體育署跟書發部呢可以提供給本席關於剛才的這個建議可行性空間的這個書面說明喔我們也要展現我們打擊黃牛票的決心好嗎好的 謝謝委員好 謝謝那個主席再給我一點點時間我請一下那個體育署長好 體育署長署長\n516292\t524337\t4月25日的新聞關於全中運有游泳選手他在熱身的時候不慎跳水那直接被禁賽是嗎\n526380\t550001\t報告委員這部分他是在現場被取消資格但是他的競賽這部分是程序不完備所以我們沒有不會幫他競賽所以那一場的比賽資格他被取消但是事後以後參加的比賽並沒有被禁沒有那當時教練也反甩說這台灣獨創一般國外並沒有規定說一定要坐之下水是嗎國外有這樣的規定嗎\n551170\t566804\t報告委員國際的規則是講不能在那個場域去做跳水的動作但是要求要以腳先入水的方式進行那協會這邊他把它擴大解釋成就是任何形式的跳水都把它算是取消資格\n567244\t589887\t我們看一下比賽應該遵守的事項他是說全面禁止任何形式的跳水那為什麼這樣規定是因為說避免發生肢體碰撞有意外跟危險那依照競賽規程第36條來辦理那我們看一下你們的競賽規程第36條寫得非常一視同仁甚至沒有針對違規的情節重大於大小來做不同處分這個\n590708\t597669\t這次的處分不可逆本席這邊要問的就是說其實每一位運動選手他可以去參加比賽他就是已經經過了無數的刻苦的練習訓練之後才有取得這個資格如果說我們動不動的就是這樣子就是競賽那其實他的運動生涯可能有就這樣子就終止了\n616013\t635710\t所以真的本案這邊本席要求體育署我們應該前面的檢視競賽規則規程章程應該做出適當的比例調整跟處分的標準我不去探討說今天他違規的這個本身但是請解重大與否跟處置這個處罰的這個比例應該有一個適當的這個標準\n640375\t648891\t法務委員這部分主要問題出在技術手冊方面所以這部分我已經請高中體總重新檢視並且重新的改寫那這邊未來應該不會有再那種問題出現了好謝謝署長謝謝委員好謝謝\n","txt":"請陳秀寳委員陳秀寳委員質詢完畢之後我們就休息5分鐘謝主席這邊請次長好次長謝謝\n市長早其實打擊黃牛票不管是公部門還是大家民眾這是大家的共識那我們教育委員會的委員包括本席也都有提文創法的修法的版本在去年的5月三讀通過那到現在將近一年也是剛好在這個時候來檢視這段時間的成效\n根據文化部提供的資料來看．4月15日截止．對於不正方式取得票券的部分．131件．加價轉售的案件檢舉案件有2105件．在刑事要件齊備的件數609件．有300件是已經調查完畢．309件在調查中．\n但是呢在300件的這個調查完畢的這個案件裡面只有裁罰30件比例只有10%喔次長這個比例這個差異可以說明一下你看這樣的比例民眾會不會覺得說根本就是雷聲大雨點小公部門就是說說也並不是真的很積極的在處理應該不是應該是說\n因為檢舉進來的案件很多他可能沒有真的發生交易就是說他有這樣的行為但是他並沒有真的發生交易所以他的查查可能到後來沒有辦法有採取的對象等等那或者是有其他在調查裡面發現他其實不見得是真的加價譬如說他是小額的然後他是代購的行為或者是他是必要的費用等等我想會有很多的樣態導致他最後真正能夠裁罰的件數比較低\n這個部分其實本席並不是重點說在於說要採訪的件數要多好像在拼績效一樣但是這個部分就是一個態度對我們對於掐氣黃牛票的這個態度接下來這邊我再請一下市長\n臉書上的很多社團是說讓票換票的這樣的社團那本席上去看了一下這些社團很多天文都還宣稱是保證有票所以很多網友去留言是很不滿啊其中也是有討論說為什麼保證有票你們是怎麼做到保證有票那或者說這個是不是應該要符合有可以來檢舉這樣的言論那文化部你們覺得說保證有票這個有沒有黃牛票的疑慮\n市長當然就是說我們覺得他有這樣的嫌疑但他查他成不成立或說如何查怎麼查這個部分還是有一些技術上的問題喔\n那財閥比例只有10%這個造成民眾的疑慮我剛剛有強調過其實我沒有硬性規定說我們一定要提高這個財閥的這個件數我是尊重說文化部這邊以及地方縣市政府的財量的權限但是保證有票這樣的言論呢我也覺得說文化部應該有你們的立場\n代購費用\n的前提是他是一個約定行為嘛就是我跟你約好你幫我買所以第一個他可能要事前發生才叫做代購所以並不能是事後的那個就叫做販售了那基於在販售的這個部分如果他販售的加價的金額是說他是必要金額必要金額的指的意思就是說譬如他是由第三方收受的比如說他的郵寄費用他的交通費用因為要交付嘛這個費用我們會被認為說欸他是一個合理的費用範圍但超出這個費用基本上都是算加價的\n市長沒關係這個部分我可以再跟你們來討論說對這個的認定或者說在這個地方我們怎麼去讓民眾不再去懷疑我們文化部是不是正有打擊黃牛票的決心那在我們在文創法修法過後即便說你們今天在你們報告裡面而且你在答詢中都覺得說黃牛票的這個情況是有改善的\n但是在民眾他想要參與這樣子的演出他們還是需要搶票的這些民眾的眼裡他們覺得說黃牛是一樣是非常猖獗所以也出現了說我們如何在我們要檢討如何再改革的這樣的聲音那近期迴響比較熱烈的部分就是日本藝人與多田光的演唱會他是採抽票制與行民制雙軌並進的這個方式讓民眾覺得最支持那本席也稍微看了一下國際間的做法日本他是用抽籤的方式那韓國是統一票價搭配那個\n請教次長,您覺得我們目前業界所採取的主流售票機制有沒有可能變更成日本的抽籤制?\n跟委員說我們很羨慕啦就是我們覺得如果售票平台跟主辦單位願意採取這些方式其實才會根本的解決黃牛問題所以其實您也是支持的如果說我們技術上是可以的話對就是說現在的台灣的問題就是說現在目前其實沒有強制性的法源所以我們都只能用勸導的然後用輔導的跟他們洽談的但是他們要不要採取因為他採取各種的方式他會增加不同的成本\n您在這邊為什麼會提到說我們要改變我們主流售票的機制也是因為有新聞上就是這個祖科工程師他自己開發的這個軟體就是讓民眾可以跟他所謂的讓民眾跟黃牛站在同一個跑艇一起來搶票用魔法對抗魔法這樣的說法\n再次請教文化部．\n如果說我們支持這個臺灣主流的這個售票模式可以真的朝著實名制跟抽票制這個制度來走的話我們有怎樣的規劃可以來輔導或者說來跟業者討論\n如果要做這個真的要改成實名自家抽籤這一類的新的制度的話他主要如果是強制的話他還是需要一個法源不然我們就只能用現在的方式就是說跟售票平台溝通跟主辦單位溝通但是最後要不要採取仍然是取決於主辦單位這是目前的一個困境\n這個部分我也希望說你們可以努力的去跟業者這邊來做協調做溝通因為如果說真的要讓我們的民眾有一個比較公平的機會來參與這樣的演出黃牛票的存在真的是會讓大家覺得說是不是公務部門你們這邊執法不力你們就是對這個部分沒有重視那在這邊我也要因為訴報部你不用回答我但是我請我這邊要要求如果說現行的售票業者\n他們因為他們的系統很容易被這樣的城市入侵的話表示說他們的治安的這個系統就是不夠強固所以這邊我也希望說我們數法部這邊可以協助這些售票業者來強化他們的整個的安全的防範\n那在這邊我要要求文化部就是說針對我們業者的售票系統的強化以及售票模式的轉變這部分希望文化部、體育署、數發部你們這邊應該跨部會的合作然後跟業者來協調能夠有共識希望共同來推進我國售票模式的轉變以及強化我們的售票系統\n那所以我要要求我希望說文化部、體育署跟書發部呢可以提供給本席關於剛才的這個建議可行性空間的這個書面說明喔我們也要展現我們打擊黃牛票的決心好嗎好的 謝謝委員好 謝謝那個主席再給我一點點時間我請一下那個體育署長好 體育署長署長\n4月25日的新聞關於全中運有游泳選手他在熱身的時候不慎跳水那直接被禁賽是嗎\n報告委員這部分他是在現場被取消資格但是他的競賽這部分是程序不完備所以我們沒有不會幫他競賽所以那一場的比賽資格他被取消但是事後以後參加的比賽並沒有被禁沒有那當時教練也反甩說這台灣獨創一般國外並沒有規定說一定要坐之下水是嗎國外有這樣的規定嗎\n報告委員國際的規則是講不能在那個場域去做跳水的動作但是要求要以腳先入水的方式進行那協會這邊他把它擴大解釋成就是任何形式的跳水都把它算是取消資格\n我們看一下比賽應該遵守的事項他是說全面禁止任何形式的跳水那為什麼這樣規定是因為說避免發生肢體碰撞有意外跟危險那依照競賽規程第36條來辦理那我們看一下你們的競賽規程第36條寫得非常一視同仁甚至沒有針對違規的情節重大於大小來做不同處分這個\n這次的處分不可逆本席這邊要問的就是說其實每一位運動選手他可以去參加比賽他就是已經經過了無數的刻苦的練習訓練之後才有取得這個資格如果說我們動不動的就是這樣子就是競賽那其實他的運動生涯可能有就這樣子就終止了\n所以真的本案這邊本席要求體育署我們應該前面的檢視競賽規則規程章程應該做出適當的比例調整跟處分的標準我不去探討說今天他違規的這個本身但是請解重大與否跟處置這個處罰的這個比例應該有一個適當的這個標準\n法務委員這部分主要問題出在技術手冊方面所以這部分我已經請高中體總重新檢視並且重新的改寫那這邊未來應該不會有再那種問題出現了好謝謝署長謝謝委員好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.590 --> 00:09.103\n請陳秀寳委員陳秀寳委員質詢完畢之後我們就休息5分鐘謝主席這邊請次長好次長謝謝\n\n00:16.011 --> 00:35.135\n市長早其實打擊黃牛票不管是公部門還是大家民眾這是大家的共識那我們教育委員會的委員包括本席也都有提文創法的修法的版本在去年的5月三讀通過那到現在將近一年也是剛好在這個時候來檢視這段時間的成效\n\n00:37.956 --> 00:52.449\n根據文化部提供的資料來看．4月15日截止．對於不正方式取得票券的部分．131件．加價轉售的案件檢舉案件有2105件．在刑事要件齊備的件數609件．有300件是已經調查完畢．309件在調查中．\n\n01:01.297 --> 01:19.164\n但是呢在300件的這個調查完畢的這個案件裡面只有裁罰30件比例只有10%喔次長這個比例這個差異可以說明一下你看這樣的比例民眾會不會覺得說根本就是雷聲大雨點小公部門就是說說也並不是真的很積極的在處理應該不是應該是說\n\n01:23.146 --> 01:47.714\n因為檢舉進來的案件很多他可能沒有真的發生交易就是說他有這樣的行為但是他並沒有真的發生交易所以他的查查可能到後來沒有辦法有採取的對象等等那或者是有其他在調查裡面發現他其實不見得是真的加價譬如說他是小額的然後他是代購的行為或者是他是必要的費用等等我想會有很多的樣態導致他最後真正能夠裁罰的件數比較低\n\n01:50.095 --> 01:55.102\n這個部分其實本席並不是重點說在於說要採訪的件數要多好像在拼績效一樣但是這個部分就是一個態度對我們對於掐氣黃牛票的這個態度接下來這邊我再請一下市長\n\n02:05.215 --> 02:26.643\n臉書上的很多社團是說讓票換票的這樣的社團那本席上去看了一下這些社團很多天文都還宣稱是保證有票所以很多網友去留言是很不滿啊其中也是有討論說為什麼保證有票你們是怎麼做到保證有票那或者說這個是不是應該要符合有可以來檢舉這樣的言論那文化部你們覺得說保證有票這個有沒有黃牛票的疑慮\n\n02:33.783 --> 02:38.104\n市長當然就是說我們覺得他有這樣的嫌疑但他查他成不成立或說如何查怎麼查這個部分還是有一些技術上的問題喔\n\n02:57.530 --> 03:16.089\n那財閥比例只有10%這個造成民眾的疑慮我剛剛有強調過其實我沒有硬性規定說我們一定要提高這個財閥的這個件數我是尊重說文化部這邊以及地方縣市政府的財量的權限但是保證有票這樣的言論呢我也覺得說文化部應該有你們的立場\n\n03:16.670 --> 03:16.810\n代購費用\n\n03:34.980 --> 04:03.363\n的前提是他是一個約定行為嘛就是我跟你約好你幫我買所以第一個他可能要事前發生才叫做代購所以並不能是事後的那個就叫做販售了那基於在販售的這個部分如果他販售的加價的金額是說他是必要金額必要金額的指的意思就是說譬如他是由第三方收受的比如說他的郵寄費用他的交通費用因為要交付嘛這個費用我們會被認為說欸他是一個合理的費用範圍但超出這個費用基本上都是算加價的\n\n04:04.364 --> 04:07.947\n市長沒關係這個部分我可以再跟你們來討論說對這個的認定或者說在這個地方我們怎麼去讓民眾不再去懷疑我們文化部是不是正有打擊黃牛票的決心那在我們在文創法修法過後即便說你們今天在你們報告裡面而且你在答詢中都覺得說黃牛票的這個情況是有改善的\n\n04:25.902 --> 04:54.716\n但是在民眾他想要參與這樣子的演出他們還是需要搶票的這些民眾的眼裡他們覺得說黃牛是一樣是非常猖獗所以也出現了說我們如何在我們要檢討如何再改革的這樣的聲音那近期迴響比較熱烈的部分就是日本藝人與多田光的演唱會他是採抽票制與行民制雙軌並進的這個方式讓民眾覺得最支持那本席也稍微看了一下國際間的做法日本他是用抽籤的方式那韓國是統一票價搭配那個\n\n04:55.416 --> 04:56.958\n請教次長,您覺得我們目前業界所採取的主流售票機制有沒有可能變更成日本的抽籤制?\n\n05:15.157 --> 05:22.160\n跟委員說我們很羨慕啦就是我們覺得如果售票平台跟主辦單位願意採取這些方式其實才會根本的解決黃牛問題所以其實您也是支持的如果說我們技術上是可以的話對就是說現在的台灣的問題就是說現在目前其實沒有強制性的法源所以我們都只能用勸導的然後用輔導的跟他們洽談的但是他們要不要採取因為他採取各種的方式他會增加不同的成本\n\n05:42.867 --> 05:50.276\n您在這邊為什麼會提到說我們要改變我們主流售票的機制也是因為有新聞上就是這個祖科工程師他自己開發的這個軟體就是讓民眾可以跟他所謂的讓民眾跟黃牛站在同一個跑艇一起來搶票用魔法對抗魔法這樣的說法\n\n06:01.169 --> 06:01.429\n再次請教文化部．\n\n06:27.790 --> 06:28.851\n如果說我們支持這個臺灣主流的這個售票模式可以真的朝著實名制跟抽票制這個制度來走的話我們有怎樣的規劃可以來輔導或者說來跟業者討論\n\n06:44.139 --> 07:03.441\n如果要做這個真的要改成實名自家抽籤這一類的新的制度的話他主要如果是強制的話他還是需要一個法源不然我們就只能用現在的方式就是說跟售票平台溝通跟主辦單位溝通但是最後要不要採取仍然是取決於主辦單位這是目前的一個困境\n\n07:04.362 --> 07:30.816\n這個部分我也希望說你們可以努力的去跟業者這邊來做協調做溝通因為如果說真的要讓我們的民眾有一個比較公平的機會來參與這樣的演出黃牛票的存在真的是會讓大家覺得說是不是公務部門你們這邊執法不力你們就是對這個部分沒有重視那在這邊我也要因為訴報部你不用回答我但是我請我這邊要要求如果說現行的售票業者\n\n07:31.656 --> 07:39.978\n他們因為他們的系統很容易被這樣的城市入侵的話表示說他們的治安的這個系統就是不夠強固所以這邊我也希望說我們數法部這邊可以協助這些售票業者來強化他們的整個的安全的防範\n\n07:48.641 --> 07:53.303\n那在這邊我要要求文化部就是說針對我們業者的售票系統的強化以及售票模式的轉變這部分希望文化部、體育署、數發部你們這邊應該跨部會的合作然後跟業者來協調能夠有共識希望共同來推進我國售票模式的轉變以及強化我們的售票系統\n\n08:10.049 --> 08:28.643\n那所以我要要求我希望說文化部、體育署跟書發部呢可以提供給本席關於剛才的這個建議可行性空間的這個書面說明喔我們也要展現我們打擊黃牛票的決心好嗎好的謝謝委員好謝謝那個主席再給我一點點時間我請一下那個體育署長好體育署長署長\n\n08:36.292 --> 08:44.337\n4月25日的新聞關於全中運有游泳選手他在熱身的時候不慎跳水那直接被禁賽是嗎\n\n08:46.380 --> 09:10.001\n報告委員這部分他是在現場被取消資格但是他的競賽這部分是程序不完備所以我們沒有不會幫他競賽所以那一場的比賽資格他被取消但是事後以後參加的比賽並沒有被禁沒有那當時教練也反甩說這台灣獨創一般國外並沒有規定說一定要坐之下水是嗎國外有這樣的規定嗎\n\n09:11.170 --> 09:26.804\n報告委員國際的規則是講不能在那個場域去做跳水的動作但是要求要以腳先入水的方式進行那協會這邊他把它擴大解釋成就是任何形式的跳水都把它算是取消資格\n\n09:27.244 --> 09:49.887\n我們看一下比賽應該遵守的事項他是說全面禁止任何形式的跳水那為什麼這樣規定是因為說避免發生肢體碰撞有意外跟危險那依照競賽規程第36條來辦理那我們看一下你們的競賽規程第36條寫得非常一視同仁甚至沒有針對違規的情節重大於大小來做不同處分這個\n\n09:50.708 --> 09:57.669\n這次的處分不可逆本席這邊要問的就是說其實每一位運動選手他可以去參加比賽他就是已經經過了無數的刻苦的練習訓練之後才有取得這個資格如果說我們動不動的就是這樣子就是競賽那其實他的運動生涯可能有就這樣子就終止了\n\n10:16.013 --> 10:35.710\n所以真的本案這邊本席要求體育署我們應該前面的檢視競賽規則規程章程應該做出適當的比例調整跟處分的標準我不去探討說今天他違規的這個本身但是請解重大與否跟處置這個處罰的這個比例應該有一個適當的這個標準\n\n10:40.375 --> 10:48.891\n法務委員這部分主要問題出在技術手冊方面所以這部分我已經請高中體總重新檢視並且重新的改寫那這邊未來應該不會有再那種問題出現了好謝謝署長謝謝委員好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.59,"end":9.103,"text":"請陳秀寳委員陳秀寳委員質詢完畢之後我們就休息5分鐘謝主席這邊請次長好次長謝謝"},{"start":16.011,"end":35.135,"text":"市長早其實打擊黃牛票不管是公部門還是大家民眾這是大家的共識那我們教育委員會的委員包括本席也都有提文創法的修法的版本在去年的5月三讀通過那到現在將近一年也是剛好在這個時候來檢視這段時間的成效"},{"start":37.956,"end":52.449,"text":"根據文化部提供的資料來看．4月15日截止．對於不正方式取得票券的部分．131件．加價轉售的案件檢舉案件有2105件．在刑事要件齊備的件數609件．有300件是已經調查完畢．309件在調查中．"},{"start":61.297,"end":79.164,"text":"但是呢在300件的這個調查完畢的這個案件裡面只有裁罰30件比例只有10%喔次長這個比例這個差異可以說明一下你看這樣的比例民眾會不會覺得說根本就是雷聲大雨點小公部門就是說說也並不是真的很積極的在處理應該不是應該是說"},{"start":83.146,"end":107.714,"text":"因為檢舉進來的案件很多他可能沒有真的發生交易就是說他有這樣的行為但是他並沒有真的發生交易所以他的查查可能到後來沒有辦法有採取的對象等等那或者是有其他在調查裡面發現他其實不見得是真的加價譬如說他是小額的然後他是代購的行為或者是他是必要的費用等等我想會有很多的樣態導致他最後真正能夠裁罰的件數比較低"},{"start":110.095,"end":115.102,"text":"這個部分其實本席並不是重點說在於說要採訪的件數要多好像在拼績效一樣但是這個部分就是一個態度對我們對於掐氣黃牛票的這個態度接下來這邊我再請一下市長"},{"start":125.215,"end":146.643,"text":"臉書上的很多社團是說讓票換票的這樣的社團那本席上去看了一下這些社團很多天文都還宣稱是保證有票所以很多網友去留言是很不滿啊其中也是有討論說為什麼保證有票你們是怎麼做到保證有票那或者說這個是不是應該要符合有可以來檢舉這樣的言論那文化部你們覺得說保證有票這個有沒有黃牛票的疑慮"},{"start":153.783,"end":158.104,"text":"市長當然就是說我們覺得他有這樣的嫌疑但他查他成不成立或說如何查怎麼查這個部分還是有一些技術上的問題喔"},{"start":177.53,"end":196.089,"text":"那財閥比例只有10%這個造成民眾的疑慮我剛剛有強調過其實我沒有硬性規定說我們一定要提高這個財閥的這個件數我是尊重說文化部這邊以及地方縣市政府的財量的權限但是保證有票這樣的言論呢我也覺得說文化部應該有你們的立場"},{"start":196.67,"end":196.81,"text":"代購費用"},{"start":214.98,"end":243.363,"text":"的前提是他是一個約定行為嘛就是我跟你約好你幫我買所以第一個他可能要事前發生才叫做代購所以並不能是事後的那個就叫做販售了那基於在販售的這個部分如果他販售的加價的金額是說他是必要金額必要金額的指的意思就是說譬如他是由第三方收受的比如說他的郵寄費用他的交通費用因為要交付嘛這個費用我們會被認為說欸他是一個合理的費用範圍但超出這個費用基本上都是算加價的"},{"start":244.364,"end":247.947,"text":"市長沒關係這個部分我可以再跟你們來討論說對這個的認定或者說在這個地方我們怎麼去讓民眾不再去懷疑我們文化部是不是正有打擊黃牛票的決心那在我們在文創法修法過後即便說你們今天在你們報告裡面而且你在答詢中都覺得說黃牛票的這個情況是有改善的"},{"start":265.902,"end":294.716,"text":"但是在民眾他想要參與這樣子的演出他們還是需要搶票的這些民眾的眼裡他們覺得說黃牛是一樣是非常猖獗所以也出現了說我們如何在我們要檢討如何再改革的這樣的聲音那近期迴響比較熱烈的部分就是日本藝人與多田光的演唱會他是採抽票制與行民制雙軌並進的這個方式讓民眾覺得最支持那本席也稍微看了一下國際間的做法日本他是用抽籤的方式那韓國是統一票價搭配那個"},{"start":295.416,"end":296.958,"text":"請教次長,您覺得我們目前業界所採取的主流售票機制有沒有可能變更成日本的抽籤制?"},{"start":315.157,"end":322.16,"text":"跟委員說我們很羨慕啦就是我們覺得如果售票平台跟主辦單位願意採取這些方式其實才會根本的解決黃牛問題所以其實您也是支持的如果說我們技術上是可以的話對就是說現在的台灣的問題就是說現在目前其實沒有強制性的法源所以我們都只能用勸導的然後用輔導的跟他們洽談的但是他們要不要採取因為他採取各種的方式他會增加不同的成本"},{"start":342.867,"end":350.276,"text":"您在這邊為什麼會提到說我們要改變我們主流售票的機制也是因為有新聞上就是這個祖科工程師他自己開發的這個軟體就是讓民眾可以跟他所謂的讓民眾跟黃牛站在同一個跑艇一起來搶票用魔法對抗魔法這樣的說法"},{"start":361.169,"end":361.429,"text":"再次請教文化部．"},{"start":387.79,"end":388.851,"text":"如果說我們支持這個臺灣主流的這個售票模式可以真的朝著實名制跟抽票制這個制度來走的話我們有怎樣的規劃可以來輔導或者說來跟業者討論"},{"start":404.139,"end":423.441,"text":"如果要做這個真的要改成實名自家抽籤這一類的新的制度的話他主要如果是強制的話他還是需要一個法源不然我們就只能用現在的方式就是說跟售票平台溝通跟主辦單位溝通但是最後要不要採取仍然是取決於主辦單位這是目前的一個困境"},{"start":424.362,"end":450.816,"text":"這個部分我也希望說你們可以努力的去跟業者這邊來做協調做溝通因為如果說真的要讓我們的民眾有一個比較公平的機會來參與這樣的演出黃牛票的存在真的是會讓大家覺得說是不是公務部門你們這邊執法不力你們就是對這個部分沒有重視那在這邊我也要因為訴報部你不用回答我但是我請我這邊要要求如果說現行的售票業者"},{"start":451.656,"end":459.978,"text":"他們因為他們的系統很容易被這樣的城市入侵的話表示說他們的治安的這個系統就是不夠強固所以這邊我也希望說我們數法部這邊可以協助這些售票業者來強化他們的整個的安全的防範"},{"start":468.641,"end":473.303,"text":"那在這邊我要要求文化部就是說針對我們業者的售票系統的強化以及售票模式的轉變這部分希望文化部、體育署、數發部你們這邊應該跨部會的合作然後跟業者來協調能夠有共識希望共同來推進我國售票模式的轉變以及強化我們的售票系統"},{"start":490.049,"end":508.643,"text":"那所以我要要求我希望說文化部、體育署跟書發部呢可以提供給本席關於剛才的這個建議可行性空間的這個書面說明喔我們也要展現我們打擊黃牛票的決心好嗎好的 謝謝委員好 謝謝那個主席再給我一點點時間我請一下那個體育署長好 體育署長署長"},{"start":516.292,"end":524.337,"text":"4月25日的新聞關於全中運有游泳選手他在熱身的時候不慎跳水那直接被禁賽是嗎"},{"start":526.38,"end":550.001,"text":"報告委員這部分他是在現場被取消資格但是他的競賽這部分是程序不完備所以我們沒有不會幫他競賽所以那一場的比賽資格他被取消但是事後以後參加的比賽並沒有被禁沒有那當時教練也反甩說這台灣獨創一般國外並沒有規定說一定要坐之下水是嗎國外有這樣的規定嗎"},{"start":551.17,"end":566.804,"text":"報告委員國際的規則是講不能在那個場域去做跳水的動作但是要求要以腳先入水的方式進行那協會這邊他把它擴大解釋成就是任何形式的跳水都把它算是取消資格"},{"start":567.244,"end":589.887,"text":"我們看一下比賽應該遵守的事項他是說全面禁止任何形式的跳水那為什麼這樣規定是因為說避免發生肢體碰撞有意外跟危險那依照競賽規程第36條來辦理那我們看一下你們的競賽規程第36條寫得非常一視同仁甚至沒有針對違規的情節重大於大小來做不同處分這個"},{"start":590.708,"end":597.669,"text":"這次的處分不可逆本席這邊要問的就是說其實每一位運動選手他可以去參加比賽他就是已經經過了無數的刻苦的練習訓練之後才有取得這個資格如果說我們動不動的就是這樣子就是競賽那其實他的運動生涯可能有就這樣子就終止了"},{"start":616.013,"end":635.71,"text":"所以真的本案這邊本席要求體育署我們應該前面的檢視競賽規則規程章程應該做出適當的比例調整跟處分的標準我不去探討說今天他違規的這個本身但是請解重大與否跟處置這個處罰的這個比例應該有一個適當的這個標準"},{"start":640.375,"end":648.891,"text":"法務委員這部分主要問題出在技術手冊方面所以這部分我已經請高中體總重新檢視並且重新的改寫那這邊未來應該不會有再那種問題出現了好謝謝署長謝謝委員好謝謝"}]}}}}