{"id":151845,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151845","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e90f54132b1096e61c013e35767fbf085b40abc3f7af24af34e2527b10508eee130a6e79d11c52415ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"牛煦庭","委員發言時間":"10:07:54 - 10:16:16","影片長度":"00:08:22","會議時間":"2024-04-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、「新住民權益保障法草案」及「新住民基本法草案」：(詢答及處理)(一)審查委員羅美玲等22人擬具「新住民權益保障法草案」案。(二)審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「新住民基本法草案」案。(三)審查委員張智倫等18人擬具「新住民基本法草案」案。(四)審查國民黨黨團擬具「新住民基本法草案」案。(五)審查委員蘇巧慧等26人擬具「新住民基本法草案」案。【第(四)案及第(五)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】二、繼續審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等20人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第二十條之一條文草案」案。\n\n備註：4月29日（星期一）、5月1日(星期三)【兩天一次會】）","date":"2024-04-29","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-15"},"duration":502,"end_time":"2024-04-29T10:16:16+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-29T10:07:54+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":600,"blocks":[["牛委員煦庭：（10時7分）謝謝主席，有請移民署長。"],["主席：有請署長。"],["牛委員煦庭：署長早安，今天這個質詢分兩個部分來探討，第一部分我們討論一下移民政策，第二部分我們再討論一下新住民基本法的正當性。我剛剛在提案說明的時候有提到，根據移民署統計，截至今年3月全臺領有證件的外籍裔新住民人數59萬5,000人，陸港澳配38萬4,000人，外配、陸配加起來在今年馬上也要突破100萬的大關，今年2月的時候，……"],["鐘署長景琨：委員，可能是加子女才會突破。"],["牛委員煦庭：加子女，反正就一百多萬人，對不對？"],["鐘署長景琨：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：今年2月的時候我們也做過政策的對話，針對我國的移民政策來做討論，綜合今天報告的內容，我們大概也發現了，因為我們的國家移民政策現在是講和平共榮、互相尊重、文化交融，好像什麼都講了，但是好像什麼都沒有講，署長，我們的移民政策到底是開放還是保守？"],["鐘署長景琨：我們當然應該是朝向開放。"],["牛委員煦庭：朝向開放？現在是開放還是保守？"],["鐘署長景琨：我想這個部分最主要是由國發會的首長會議來主導。"],["牛委員煦庭：和平共融、互相尊重、文化交流算開放還算保守？這就是我說的，好像什麼都講，但是好像什麼都沒有講。請問署長，臺灣適不適合移民？我們是不是一個大家很想要來這邊定居的幸福國度？"],["鐘署長景琨：是啊，應該是……"],["牛委員煦庭：我們比起東亞各國，我們移民的優勢在哪裡？為什麼我們是值得定居的幸福樂土？"],["鐘署長景琨：我想我們的治安很好，我們的生活環境也很好，我們的人民也非常的友善，生活非常便利。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以你講的是生活的部分，治安安全，生活穩定，對不對？"],["鐘署長景琨：對。"],["牛委員煦庭：可是我告訴你，你剛剛有講，你要討論移民政策的時候，都是用國發會的角度出發，國發會要的人才是什麼？其實國發會的報告撰寫者科長今天也在我們會場，報告說後疫情時代，各國的經濟移民政策比較，也就是從國家發展的角度，其實我們需要的是有專業技術的經濟移民，因為我們現在面對少子化跟高齡化的雙重衝擊，所以用經濟移民政策來補貼我國的勞動力缺口。現在問題就來了，你剛剛說我們吸引大家的地方在於治安很好，住起來還蠻舒服的，對不對？可是這跟產業其實沒有什麼直接的關係，對不對？我們可以看到各國移民政策，其實大家講的也都是老生常談，大家都希望用經濟移民來讓國家的產業發展更加強盛，好比英國因應產業的需求，吸引STEM的專業人才；新加坡也一樣，用科技簽證的方式來吸引高科技人才；日本希望的是金融外專的人才等等，但實務上這些國家即便希望透過產業經濟移民的角度，實際上來說都還不見得能夠執行到位，譬如日本招募外籍生，希望留用外籍生來補貼勞動力，但是他們還沒有畢業就因為高額的生活費不得不打工，變成了所謂的學工。臺灣有沒有學工的問題？"],["鐘署長景琨：學生來臺灣，教育部是有規定每週在20小時之內准許他們打工。"],["牛委員煦庭：對啦，准許，但是有沒有變黑工的問題？變成超額勞動或者本質上變成來勞動而不是來念書？應該是有的，對不對？教育部也做過調查，若干的個案我們今天因為時間有限……"],["鐘署長景琨：若干個案是有。"],["牛委員煦庭：是有的，對不對？好，國發會報告說我們面對雙重挑戰，希望透過移民政策來解決缺口，現在我就問移民署，到底我們要不要用開放的移民政策作為勞動力缺口的解方、政策方向？"],["鐘署長景琨：在勞動力方面，其實剛剛委員也說得很清楚了，就是高階的部分我們其實是有外國人才的延攬僱用法，在比較低階的藍領人力的部分，已經來到了76萬，檢討各產業的需求來開放……"],["牛委員煦庭：我們現在講的是移民啦，就是說你要不要乾脆比如說比照新加坡的模式，新加坡的案例就是廣開大門，歡迎大家來，直接跟全世界講，只要你是好人才，都歡迎你來，這叫開放的移民政策，顯然我們還沒有走到這個程度，對不對？"],["鐘署長景琨：這部分可能還是要……"],["牛委員煦庭：但我們要不要往這個方向走？"],["鐘署長景琨：國發會審慎去檢討，這個部分恐怕我沒有辦法做很明確的回答。"],["牛委員煦庭：沒關係，今天我們花一點點時間去討論移民政策的原因，就是因為這事情茲事體大，但我想新的政府上台之後，移民政策是一個很重要的東西，因為少子化跟高齡化已經大軍壓境，再不討論、大家再把頭埋在土裡是沒有意義的事情，不管要開放還是要保守，都要有一個明確的態度，好不好？這是我今天要提醒署長的部分。","再來請次長。"],["主席：有請花次長，謝謝。"],["牛委員煦庭：我們今天在討論新住民基本法，我覺得這個法案有兩個重大意義：第一叫做宣示意義，宣示意義就是如果我們有專門的法律去保障新住民的權益，我們剛剛花那麼多時間去談移民政策，你才可以跟全世界說我們是重視移民的，我們是重視新住民權益保障的這樣一個國家，對不對？這是這個法案的宣示意義，我們都希望不要被歧視或怎麼樣，所以是宣示意義，這是第一個。第二、這法案也不是沒有實質意義。次長，內政部是天下第一大部，各種業務這麼繁重，我們內政委員會也就十三、十四個委員，我們要從都市計畫管到警消，有這麼多的事情要討論，其實在各個部門都一樣，在理論上、理想中的狀態都是各個部門都要重視新住民的權益，才叫做真正的平等，可是實務上來說做不到這件事，所以不管是新住民也好、原住民也好，在少數跟弱勢的族群，我們會需要所謂的專職單位，就是因為要有一個專職單位提升他們的話語權，在跨部會協調的時候，它有它的分量跟重要性，它的政策比重跟關注度才會提升，所以這是這一部法案的實質意義，它既有宣示的意義，也有實質的意義，其實它有充分的正當性。","剛剛次長在答復其他委員的時候說，我們要發現問題，解決問題，我要告訴次長，發現、解決問題，就像我們的提案說明一樣，你從106年講到現在也夠了，該是要有一部明確的法案往前走了啦！之前提過新住民保障法這基本草案，就是本黨之前的立法委員林麗蟬委員有講，我們在社會倡議，為了要幫新住民爭取權益，我們當然要講好講滿，但是講好講滿的用意是要政府提出相對溫和的版本，然後大家在妥協的過程中前進。我就非常認同這樣的概念，但是我們這樣去提之後，到現在顯然連院版都沒有出來，我想這是讓很多新住民好朋友非常非常失望的。法條的內容、開放的程度都可以討論，但是不能裹足不前啦！所以我希望無論如何，今天政府也要用開放的心態，用積極的心態來面對新住民基本法的審議跟修正，好不好？"],["花次長敬群：我們態度上當然開放，我們現在關心的是立了這個法之後，實質的精進到底會是什麼，這才是我們關注的……"],["牛委員煦庭：所以沒有院版我們就是很失望嘛，對不對？"],["花次長敬群：相對於現在行政院的新住民事務協調會報，是由政委和行政院當作高位來處理議題，還是要回到部會，其實這都要互相比較……"],["牛委員煦庭：對。"],["花次長敬群：怎麼樣對新住民比較好，當然我們就要怎麼走。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以你要有一套版本，我講的就像對案一樣，因為馬上我們要進入逐條討論了，好不好？"],["花次長敬群：瞭解，謝謝委員。"],["牛委員煦庭：我們希望有明確的態度，而且希望是友善的，可以嗎？"],["花次長敬群：謝謝委員。"],["牛委員煦庭：謝謝，辛苦了。"],["主席：非常謝謝牛煦庭委員，謝謝次長跟署長。","繼續請許宇甄委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":448,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-15","speakers":["高金素梅","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","張智倫","張宏陸","黃建賓","許宇甄","王美惠","黃捷","丁學忠","李柏毅","鄭天財Sra 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\"end\": 475.744, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 475.744, \"end\": 475.764, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 475.764, \"end\": 475.784, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"擬\"}, {\"word\": \"具\", \"start\": 475.784, \"end\": 475.804, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,470 --> 00:00:00,610\n審查委員\n\n2\n00:00:14,755 --> 00:00:30,722\n委員好署長早安今天質詢的部分分成兩個部分來做探討第一部分我們討論一下移民政策第二部分我們討論一下新住民基本法的正當性我們剛剛在提案說明的時候有提到移民署有統計截至今年3月全台領有政見的外籍\n\n3\n00:00:32,563 --> 00:00:58,890\n一、新住民人數59萬5千人陸、港、澳配38萬4千人外配陸配再加起來在今年馬上也要突破100萬的這個大關那今年二月的時候委員可能是家子女才會突破反正我們剛剛數字大概就反正100多萬人嘛對不對那今年二月的時候我們也做過政策的對話針對我國的移民政策來做討論\n\n4\n00:01:00,703 --> 00:01:11,469\n審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案．立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第11屆第2會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第\n\n5\n00:01:24,730 --> 00:01:50,158\n朝向開放那現在是開放還是保守我想這個部分最主要是由國發會他來主導他有一個五首長會議來主導那個和平共榮互相尊重文化交流算開放還算保守所以這就是我說的好像什麼都講了但是好像什麼都沒有講這個那請問組長台灣適不適合移民我們是不是一個大家很想要來這邊定居的幸福的國度\n\n6\n00:01:51,664 --> 00:02:04,260\n審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案案案。審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案。審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案。審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案。審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案。審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案。審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案\n\n7\n00:02:05,489 --> 00:02:28,226\n我講台灣是一個就是說我們的治安很好我們的生活環境也很好我們的這個人民也非常的友善所以你講的是生活的部分自然安全生活穩定對不對對可是我告訴你剛剛有講嘛國發會有寫一個對不對你在討論移民政策的時候都是用國發會的角度來出發國發會要的要的人才是什麼其實\n\n8\n00:02:29,026 --> 00:02:48,467\n國防會寫的報告,今天這個撰寫者科長今天也在我們的會場,說這個後疫情時代各國的經濟移民政策比較,由於從國家發展的角度,其實我們需要的是這個專有專業技術的經濟移民啦,因為我們現在面對少子化跟高齡化的雙重衝擊,所以說用經濟移民政策來補貼我國的勞動力缺口。\n\n9\n00:02:50,149 --> 00:03:04,724\n好現在問題就來你剛剛有講說我們這邊吸引大家的地方在於就是說自然很好住起來還蠻舒服的對不對可是這跟產業其實沒有什麼直接的關係對不對我們可以看到各國移民政策其實大家講的也都老生常談\n\n10\n00:03:05,325 --> 00:03:32,544\n大家其實都希望用經濟移民來讓國家的這個產業發展來更加強盛好比說英國因應產業的需求STEM的專業人才新加坡一樣這個是他用科技簽證的方式來處理吸引這個高科技的人才日本希望的是金融外專的人才以及等等但實務上這些國家即便他希望是透過有一個產業經濟移民的角度實際上來說都還是不見得能夠執行到位\n\n11\n00:03:33,044 --> 00:03:45,151\n譬如說日本招募外籍生希望留用這個外籍生然後來補貼勞動力但是還沒有畢業就因為高額的生活費不得不打工變成了所謂的學工台灣有沒有學工的問題\n\n12\n00:03:47,130 --> 00:04:04,008\n台灣學生來這邊教育部是有規定在每週20小時之內是准許他們來打工的對啦准許但是有沒有變黑工的問題變成超額勞動或者是本質上變成來勞動而不是在念書\n\n13\n00:04:05,269 --> 00:04:26,381\n應該是有的嘛對不對這教育部也做過調查若干的個案我們今天時間有限了是有的嘛對不對好國防部的報告講說我們面對這個雙重挑戰希望透過移民政策來解決缺口現在我就問移民署到底我們要不要用開放的移民政策來當成勞動力缺口的解方政策方向\n\n14\n00:04:26,929 --> 00:04:53,223\n在勞動力方面其實剛剛委員也有說得很清楚就是高階的部分我們其實是有外國人才的原卵雇用法那在比較低階的男女人力的部分已經來到了76萬就檢討各產業的需求我們現在講的是移民就是說你要不要乾脆例如說比照新加坡的模式新加坡的案例就是廣納廣開大門歡迎大家來\n\n15\n00:04:55,484 --> 00:04:56,467\n審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具\n\n16\n00:05:08,644 --> 00:05:33,211\n審慎去檢討這個部分恐怕我沒有辦法做很明確的回答今天我們花一點點時間去討論移民政策的原因就是這個事情當然知識體大但我想新的政府上台之後移民政策是一個很重要的東西因為少子化跟高齡化已經大軍壓境再不討論大家再把頭埋在土裡是沒有意義的事情不管要開放還是要保守都要有一個明確的態度好不好這是我今天要提醒署長的部分再來次長\n\n17\n00:05:34,144 --> 00:06:01,317\n有請花次長謝謝我們今天在討論這個新住民基本法就是因為我覺得這個法案有兩個重大意義第一個叫做宣誓意義宣誓意義就是我們的法條如果有專門的法律法案去保障新住民的權益我們在剛剛去花那麼多時間去談移民政策你才可以跟全世界講說我們是重視移民的我們是重視新住民權益保障的這樣的一個國家\n\n18\n00:06:02,017 --> 00:06:02,437\n審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具\n\n19\n00:06:11,449 --> 00:06:34,926\n市長你是內政部是天下第一大部對不對各種業務這麼繁重我們也就13、14個對不對內政委員會我們要從這個都市計畫管到警消這個這麼多的事情要討論對不對其實在各個部門都一樣你很難啊就理論上理想中的狀態啊都是各個部門都要重視新住民的權益叫真正的平等可是實務上來說做不到這件事\n\n20\n00:06:35,606 --> 00:06:51,036\n所以不管是新住民也好原住民也好等等在少數跟弱勢的族群我們會需要所謂的專職單位就是因為要有的專職單位把這個話語權來做提升在跨部會協調的時候它有它的份量跟重要性它的政策的比重跟關注度才會提升\n\n21\n00:06:51,616 --> 00:07:10,584\n所以這是這一部法案的實質意義它既有宣示的意義也有實質的意義其實它是有充分的正當性剛剛市長在答詢其他委員的時候講說我們要發現問題解決問題我要告訴市長發現解決問題就像我們提案說明一樣你從106年講到現在也夠了啦該次要有一部明確的法案要往前走了啦\n\n22\n00:07:11,224 --> 00:07:36,676\n之前提過新住民保障法這基本草案這本黨之前的立法委員林立禪委員他有講他說我們在社會倡議為了要幫新住民爭取權益我們當然要講好講滿但是講好講滿的用意是要政府提出相對問候的版本然後大家在妥協的過程中前進我就非常認同這樣的概念但是我們這樣去提之後顯然到現在連院版都沒有出來我想這是讓很多新住民好朋友是非常非常失望的\n\n23\n00:07:37,176 --> 00:07:37,576\n審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具\n\n24\n00:07:55,504 --> 00:07:55,804\n審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n470\t610\t審查委員\n14755\t30722\t委員好 署長早安今天質詢的部分分成兩個部分來做探討第一部分我們討論一下移民政策第二部分我們討論一下新住民基本法的正當性我們剛剛在提案說明的時候有提到移民署有統計截至今年3月全台領有政見的外籍\n32563\t58890\t一、新住民人數59萬5千人陸、港、澳配38萬4千人外配陸配再加起來在今年馬上也要突破100萬的這個大關那今年二月的時候委員可能是家子女才會突破反正我們剛剛數字大概就反正100多萬人嘛對不對那今年二月的時候我們也做過政策的對話針對我國的移民政策來做討論\n60703\t71469\t審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案．立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第11屆第2會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第\n84730\t110158\t朝向開放那現在是開放還是保守我想這個部分最主要是由國發會他來主導他有一個五首長會議來主導那個和平共榮互相尊重文化交流算開放還算保守所以這就是我說的好像什麼都講了但是好像什麼都沒有講這個那請問組長台灣適不適合移民我們是不是一個大家很想要來這邊定居的幸福的國度\n111664\t124260\t審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案案案。 審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案。 審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案。 審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案。 審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案。 審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案。 審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案\n125489\t148226\t我講台灣是一個就是說我們的治安很好我們的生活環境也很好我們的這個人民也非常的友善所以你講的是生活的部分自然安全生活穩定對不對對可是我告訴你剛剛有講嘛國發會有寫一個對不對你在討論移民政策的時候都是用國發會的角度來出發國發會要的要的人才是什麼其實\n149026\t168467\t國防會寫的報告,今天這個撰寫者科長今天也在我們的會場,說這個後疫情時代各國的經濟移民政策比較,由於從國家發展的角度,其實我們需要的是這個專有專業技術的經濟移民啦,因為我們現在面對少子化跟高齡化的雙重衝擊,所以說用經濟移民政策來補貼我國的勞動力缺口。\n170149\t184724\t好 現在問題就來你剛剛有講說我們這邊吸引大家的地方在於就是說自然很好 住起來還蠻舒服的 對不對可是這跟產業其實沒有什麼直接的關係 對不對我們可以看到各國移民政策其實大家講的也都老生常談\n185325\t212544\t大家其實都希望用經濟移民來讓國家的這個產業發展來更加強盛好比說英國因應產業的需求STEM的專業人才新加坡一樣這個是他用科技簽證的方式來處理吸引這個高科技的人才日本希望的是金融外專的人才以及等等但實務上這些國家即便他希望是透過有一個產業經濟移民的角度實際上來說都還是不見得能夠執行到位\n213044\t225151\t譬如說日本招募外籍生希望留用這個外籍生然後來補貼勞動力但是還沒有畢業就因為高額的生活費不得不打工變成了所謂的學工台灣有沒有學工的問題\n227130\t244008\t台灣學生來這邊教育部是有規定在每週20小時之內是准許他們來打工的對啦 准許但是有沒有變黑工的問題變成超額勞動或者是本質上變成來勞動而不是在念書\n245269\t266381\t應該是有的嘛 對不對這教育部也做過調查若干的個案我們今天時間有限了是有的嘛 對不對好 國防部的報告講說我們面對這個雙重挑戰希望透過移民政策來解決缺口現在我就問移民署到底我們要不要用開放的移民政策來當成勞動力缺口的解方政策方向\n266929\t293223\t在勞動力方面 其實剛剛委員也有說得很清楚就是高階的部分 我們其實是有外國人才的原卵雇用法那在比較低階的男女人力的部分 已經來到了76萬就檢討各產業的需求 我們現在講的是移民就是說你要不要乾脆 例如說比照新加坡的模式新加坡的案例就是廣納 廣開大門 歡迎大家來\n295484\t296467\t審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具\n308644\t333211\t審慎去檢討這個部分恐怕我沒有辦法做很明確的回答今天我們花一點點時間去討論移民政策的原因就是這個事情當然知識體大但我想新的政府上台之後移民政策是一個很重要的東西因為少子化跟高齡化已經大軍壓境再不討論大家再把頭埋在土裡是沒有意義的事情不管要開放還是要保守都要有一個明確的態度好不好這是我今天要提醒署長的部分再來次長\n334144\t361317\t有請花次長謝謝我們今天在討論這個新住民基本法就是因為我覺得這個法案有兩個重大意義第一個叫做宣誓意義宣誓意義就是我們的法條如果有專門的法律法案去保障新住民的權益我們在剛剛去花那麼多時間去談移民政策你才可以跟全世界講說我們是重視移民的我們是重視新住民權益保障的這樣的一個國家\n362017\t362437\t審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具\n371449\t394926\t市長你是內政部是天下第一大部對不對各種業務這麼繁重我們也就13、14個對不對內政委員會我們要從這個都市計畫管到警消這個這麼多的事情要討論對不對其實在各個部門都一樣你很難啊就理論上理想中的狀態啊都是各個部門都要重視新住民的權益叫真正的平等可是實務上來說做不到這件事\n395606\t411036\t所以不管是新住民也好原住民也好等等在少數跟弱勢的族群我們會需要所謂的專職單位就是因為要有的專職單位把這個話語權來做提升在跨部會協調的時候它有它的份量跟重要性它的政策的比重跟關注度才會提升\n411616\t430584\t所以這是這一部法案的實質意義它既有宣示的意義也有實質的意義其實它是有充分的正當性剛剛市長在答詢其他委員的時候講說我們要發現問題解決問題我要告訴市長發現解決問題就像我們提案說明一樣你從106年講到現在也夠了啦該次要有一部明確的法案要往前走了啦\n431224\t456676\t之前提過新住民保障法這基本草案這本黨之前的立法委員林立禪委員他有講他說我們在社會倡議為了要幫新住民爭取權益我們當然要講好講滿但是講好講滿的用意是要政府提出相對問候的版本然後大家在妥協的過程中前進我就非常認同這樣的概念但是我們這樣去提之後顯然到現在連院版都沒有出來我想這是讓很多新住民好朋友是非常非常失望的\n457176\t457576\t審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具\n475504\t475804\t審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具\n","txt":"審查委員\n委員好 署長早安今天質詢的部分分成兩個部分來做探討第一部分我們討論一下移民政策第二部分我們討論一下新住民基本法的正當性我們剛剛在提案說明的時候有提到移民署有統計截至今年3月全台領有政見的外籍\n一、新住民人數59萬5千人陸、港、澳配38萬4千人外配陸配再加起來在今年馬上也要突破100萬的這個大關那今年二月的時候委員可能是家子女才會突破反正我們剛剛數字大概就反正100多萬人嘛對不對那今年二月的時候我們也做過政策的對話針對我國的移民政策來做討論\n審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案．立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第11屆第2會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第\n朝向開放那現在是開放還是保守我想這個部分最主要是由國發會他來主導他有一個五首長會議來主導那個和平共榮互相尊重文化交流算開放還算保守所以這就是我說的好像什麼都講了但是好像什麼都沒有講這個那請問組長台灣適不適合移民我們是不是一個大家很想要來這邊定居的幸福的國度\n審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案案案。 審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案。 審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案。 審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案。 審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案。 審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案。 審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案\n我講台灣是一個就是說我們的治安很好我們的生活環境也很好我們的這個人民也非常的友善所以你講的是生活的部分自然安全生活穩定對不對對可是我告訴你剛剛有講嘛國發會有寫一個對不對你在討論移民政策的時候都是用國發會的角度來出發國發會要的要的人才是什麼其實\n國防會寫的報告,今天這個撰寫者科長今天也在我們的會場,說這個後疫情時代各國的經濟移民政策比較,由於從國家發展的角度,其實我們需要的是這個專有專業技術的經濟移民啦,因為我們現在面對少子化跟高齡化的雙重衝擊,所以說用經濟移民政策來補貼我國的勞動力缺口。\n好 現在問題就來你剛剛有講說我們這邊吸引大家的地方在於就是說自然很好 住起來還蠻舒服的 對不對可是這跟產業其實沒有什麼直接的關係 對不對我們可以看到各國移民政策其實大家講的也都老生常談\n大家其實都希望用經濟移民來讓國家的這個產業發展來更加強盛好比說英國因應產業的需求STEM的專業人才新加坡一樣這個是他用科技簽證的方式來處理吸引這個高科技的人才日本希望的是金融外專的人才以及等等但實務上這些國家即便他希望是透過有一個產業經濟移民的角度實際上來說都還是不見得能夠執行到位\n譬如說日本招募外籍生希望留用這個外籍生然後來補貼勞動力但是還沒有畢業就因為高額的生活費不得不打工變成了所謂的學工台灣有沒有學工的問題\n台灣學生來這邊教育部是有規定在每週20小時之內是准許他們來打工的對啦 准許但是有沒有變黑工的問題變成超額勞動或者是本質上變成來勞動而不是在念書\n應該是有的嘛 對不對這教育部也做過調查若干的個案我們今天時間有限了是有的嘛 對不對好 國防部的報告講說我們面對這個雙重挑戰希望透過移民政策來解決缺口現在我就問移民署到底我們要不要用開放的移民政策來當成勞動力缺口的解方政策方向\n在勞動力方面 其實剛剛委員也有說得很清楚就是高階的部分 我們其實是有外國人才的原卵雇用法那在比較低階的男女人力的部分 已經來到了76萬就檢討各產業的需求 我們現在講的是移民就是說你要不要乾脆 例如說比照新加坡的模式新加坡的案例就是廣納 廣開大門 歡迎大家來\n審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具\n審慎去檢討這個部分恐怕我沒有辦法做很明確的回答今天我們花一點點時間去討論移民政策的原因就是這個事情當然知識體大但我想新的政府上台之後移民政策是一個很重要的東西因為少子化跟高齡化已經大軍壓境再不討論大家再把頭埋在土裡是沒有意義的事情不管要開放還是要保守都要有一個明確的態度好不好這是我今天要提醒署長的部分再來次長\n有請花次長謝謝我們今天在討論這個新住民基本法就是因為我覺得這個法案有兩個重大意義第一個叫做宣誓意義宣誓意義就是我們的法條如果有專門的法律法案去保障新住民的權益我們在剛剛去花那麼多時間去談移民政策你才可以跟全世界講說我們是重視移民的我們是重視新住民權益保障的這樣的一個國家\n審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具\n市長你是內政部是天下第一大部對不對各種業務這麼繁重我們也就13、14個對不對內政委員會我們要從這個都市計畫管到警消這個這麼多的事情要討論對不對其實在各個部門都一樣你很難啊就理論上理想中的狀態啊都是各個部門都要重視新住民的權益叫真正的平等可是實務上來說做不到這件事\n所以不管是新住民也好原住民也好等等在少數跟弱勢的族群我們會需要所謂的專職單位就是因為要有的專職單位把這個話語權來做提升在跨部會協調的時候它有它的份量跟重要性它的政策的比重跟關注度才會提升\n所以這是這一部法案的實質意義它既有宣示的意義也有實質的意義其實它是有充分的正當性剛剛市長在答詢其他委員的時候講說我們要發現問題解決問題我要告訴市長發現解決問題就像我們提案說明一樣你從106年講到現在也夠了啦該次要有一部明確的法案要往前走了啦\n之前提過新住民保障法這基本草案這本黨之前的立法委員林立禪委員他有講他說我們在社會倡議為了要幫新住民爭取權益我們當然要講好講滿但是講好講滿的用意是要政府提出相對問候的版本然後大家在妥協的過程中前進我就非常認同這樣的概念但是我們這樣去提之後顯然到現在連院版都沒有出來我想這是讓很多新住民好朋友是非常非常失望的\n審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具\n審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.470 --> 00:00.610\n審查委員\n\n00:14.755 --> 00:30.722\n委員好署長早安今天質詢的部分分成兩個部分來做探討第一部分我們討論一下移民政策第二部分我們討論一下新住民基本法的正當性我們剛剛在提案說明的時候有提到移民署有統計截至今年3月全台領有政見的外籍\n\n00:32.563 --> 00:58.890\n一、新住民人數59萬5千人陸、港、澳配38萬4千人外配陸配再加起來在今年馬上也要突破100萬的這個大關那今年二月的時候委員可能是家子女才會突破反正我們剛剛數字大概就反正100多萬人嘛對不對那今年二月的時候我們也做過政策的對話針對我國的移民政策來做討論\n\n01:00.703 --> 01:11.469\n審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案．立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第11屆第2會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第\n\n01:24.730 --> 01:50.158\n朝向開放那現在是開放還是保守我想這個部分最主要是由國發會他來主導他有一個五首長會議來主導那個和平共榮互相尊重文化交流算開放還算保守所以這就是我說的好像什麼都講了但是好像什麼都沒有講這個那請問組長台灣適不適合移民我們是不是一個大家很想要來這邊定居的幸福的國度\n\n01:51.664 --> 02:04.260\n審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案案案。審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案。審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案。審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案。審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案。審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案。審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案\n\n02:05.489 --> 02:28.226\n我講台灣是一個就是說我們的治安很好我們的生活環境也很好我們的這個人民也非常的友善所以你講的是生活的部分自然安全生活穩定對不對對可是我告訴你剛剛有講嘛國發會有寫一個對不對你在討論移民政策的時候都是用國發會的角度來出發國發會要的要的人才是什麼其實\n\n02:29.026 --> 02:48.467\n國防會寫的報告,今天這個撰寫者科長今天也在我們的會場,說這個後疫情時代各國的經濟移民政策比較,由於從國家發展的角度,其實我們需要的是這個專有專業技術的經濟移民啦,因為我們現在面對少子化跟高齡化的雙重衝擊,所以說用經濟移民政策來補貼我國的勞動力缺口。\n\n02:50.149 --> 03:04.724\n好現在問題就來你剛剛有講說我們這邊吸引大家的地方在於就是說自然很好住起來還蠻舒服的對不對可是這跟產業其實沒有什麼直接的關係對不對我們可以看到各國移民政策其實大家講的也都老生常談\n\n03:05.325 --> 03:32.544\n大家其實都希望用經濟移民來讓國家的這個產業發展來更加強盛好比說英國因應產業的需求STEM的專業人才新加坡一樣這個是他用科技簽證的方式來處理吸引這個高科技的人才日本希望的是金融外專的人才以及等等但實務上這些國家即便他希望是透過有一個產業經濟移民的角度實際上來說都還是不見得能夠執行到位\n\n03:33.044 --> 03:45.151\n譬如說日本招募外籍生希望留用這個外籍生然後來補貼勞動力但是還沒有畢業就因為高額的生活費不得不打工變成了所謂的學工台灣有沒有學工的問題\n\n03:47.130 --> 04:04.008\n台灣學生來這邊教育部是有規定在每週20小時之內是准許他們來打工的對啦准許但是有沒有變黑工的問題變成超額勞動或者是本質上變成來勞動而不是在念書\n\n04:05.269 --> 04:26.381\n應該是有的嘛對不對這教育部也做過調查若干的個案我們今天時間有限了是有的嘛對不對好國防部的報告講說我們面對這個雙重挑戰希望透過移民政策來解決缺口現在我就問移民署到底我們要不要用開放的移民政策來當成勞動力缺口的解方政策方向\n\n04:26.929 --> 04:53.223\n在勞動力方面其實剛剛委員也有說得很清楚就是高階的部分我們其實是有外國人才的原卵雇用法那在比較低階的男女人力的部分已經來到了76萬就檢討各產業的需求我們現在講的是移民就是說你要不要乾脆例如說比照新加坡的模式新加坡的案例就是廣納廣開大門歡迎大家來\n\n04:55.484 --> 04:56.467\n審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具\n\n05:08.644 --> 05:33.211\n審慎去檢討這個部分恐怕我沒有辦法做很明確的回答今天我們花一點點時間去討論移民政策的原因就是這個事情當然知識體大但我想新的政府上台之後移民政策是一個很重要的東西因為少子化跟高齡化已經大軍壓境再不討論大家再把頭埋在土裡是沒有意義的事情不管要開放還是要保守都要有一個明確的態度好不好這是我今天要提醒署長的部分再來次長\n\n05:34.144 --> 06:01.317\n有請花次長謝謝我們今天在討論這個新住民基本法就是因為我覺得這個法案有兩個重大意義第一個叫做宣誓意義宣誓意義就是我們的法條如果有專門的法律法案去保障新住民的權益我們在剛剛去花那麼多時間去談移民政策你才可以跟全世界講說我們是重視移民的我們是重視新住民權益保障的這樣的一個國家\n\n06:02.017 --> 06:02.437\n審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具\n\n06:11.449 --> 06:34.926\n市長你是內政部是天下第一大部對不對各種業務這麼繁重我們也就13、14個對不對內政委員會我們要從這個都市計畫管到警消這個這麼多的事情要討論對不對其實在各個部門都一樣你很難啊就理論上理想中的狀態啊都是各個部門都要重視新住民的權益叫真正的平等可是實務上來說做不到這件事\n\n06:35.606 --> 06:51.036\n所以不管是新住民也好原住民也好等等在少數跟弱勢的族群我們會需要所謂的專職單位就是因為要有的專職單位把這個話語權來做提升在跨部會協調的時候它有它的份量跟重要性它的政策的比重跟關注度才會提升\n\n06:51.616 --> 07:10.584\n所以這是這一部法案的實質意義它既有宣示的意義也有實質的意義其實它是有充分的正當性剛剛市長在答詢其他委員的時候講說我們要發現問題解決問題我要告訴市長發現解決問題就像我們提案說明一樣你從106年講到現在也夠了啦該次要有一部明確的法案要往前走了啦\n\n07:11.224 --> 07:36.676\n之前提過新住民保障法這基本草案這本黨之前的立法委員林立禪委員他有講他說我們在社會倡議為了要幫新住民爭取權益我們當然要講好講滿但是講好講滿的用意是要政府提出相對問候的版本然後大家在妥協的過程中前進我就非常認同這樣的概念但是我們這樣去提之後顯然到現在連院版都沒有出來我想這是讓很多新住民好朋友是非常非常失望的\n\n07:37.176 --> 07:37.576\n審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具\n\n07:55.504 --> 07:55.804\n審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.47,"end":0.61,"text":"審查委員"},{"start":14.755,"end":30.722,"text":"委員好 署長早安今天質詢的部分分成兩個部分來做探討第一部分我們討論一下移民政策第二部分我們討論一下新住民基本法的正當性我們剛剛在提案說明的時候有提到移民署有統計截至今年3月全台領有政見的外籍"},{"start":32.563,"end":58.89,"text":"一、新住民人數59萬5千人陸、港、澳配38萬4千人外配陸配再加起來在今年馬上也要突破100萬的這個大關那今年二月的時候委員可能是家子女才會突破反正我們剛剛數字大概就反正100多萬人嘛對不對那今年二月的時候我們也做過政策的對話針對我國的移民政策來做討論"},{"start":60.703,"end":71.469,"text":"審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案．立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第11屆第2會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第1會期內政委員會第"},{"start":84.73,"end":110.158,"text":"朝向開放那現在是開放還是保守我想這個部分最主要是由國發會他來主導他有一個五首長會議來主導那個和平共榮互相尊重文化交流算開放還算保守所以這就是我說的好像什麼都講了但是好像什麼都沒有講這個那請問組長台灣適不適合移民我們是不是一個大家很想要來這邊定居的幸福的國度"},{"start":111.664,"end":124.26,"text":"審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案案案。 審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案。 審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案。 審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案。 審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案。 審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案。 審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案"},{"start":125.489,"end":148.226,"text":"我講台灣是一個就是說我們的治安很好我們的生活環境也很好我們的這個人民也非常的友善所以你講的是生活的部分自然安全生活穩定對不對對可是我告訴你剛剛有講嘛國發會有寫一個對不對你在討論移民政策的時候都是用國發會的角度來出發國發會要的要的人才是什麼其實"},{"start":149.026,"end":168.467,"text":"國防會寫的報告,今天這個撰寫者科長今天也在我們的會場,說這個後疫情時代各國的經濟移民政策比較,由於從國家發展的角度,其實我們需要的是這個專有專業技術的經濟移民啦,因為我們現在面對少子化跟高齡化的雙重衝擊,所以說用經濟移民政策來補貼我國的勞動力缺口。"},{"start":170.149,"end":184.724,"text":"好 現在問題就來你剛剛有講說我們這邊吸引大家的地方在於就是說自然很好 住起來還蠻舒服的 對不對可是這跟產業其實沒有什麼直接的關係 對不對我們可以看到各國移民政策其實大家講的也都老生常談"},{"start":185.325,"end":212.544,"text":"大家其實都希望用經濟移民來讓國家的這個產業發展來更加強盛好比說英國因應產業的需求STEM的專業人才新加坡一樣這個是他用科技簽證的方式來處理吸引這個高科技的人才日本希望的是金融外專的人才以及等等但實務上這些國家即便他希望是透過有一個產業經濟移民的角度實際上來說都還是不見得能夠執行到位"},{"start":213.044,"end":225.151,"text":"譬如說日本招募外籍生希望留用這個外籍生然後來補貼勞動力但是還沒有畢業就因為高額的生活費不得不打工變成了所謂的學工台灣有沒有學工的問題"},{"start":227.13,"end":244.008,"text":"台灣學生來這邊教育部是有規定在每週20小時之內是准許他們來打工的對啦 准許但是有沒有變黑工的問題變成超額勞動或者是本質上變成來勞動而不是在念書"},{"start":245.269,"end":266.381,"text":"應該是有的嘛 對不對這教育部也做過調查若干的個案我們今天時間有限了是有的嘛 對不對好 國防部的報告講說我們面對這個雙重挑戰希望透過移民政策來解決缺口現在我就問移民署到底我們要不要用開放的移民政策來當成勞動力缺口的解方政策方向"},{"start":266.929,"end":293.223,"text":"在勞動力方面 其實剛剛委員也有說得很清楚就是高階的部分 我們其實是有外國人才的原卵雇用法那在比較低階的男女人力的部分 已經來到了76萬就檢討各產業的需求 我們現在講的是移民就是說你要不要乾脆 例如說比照新加坡的模式新加坡的案例就是廣納 廣開大門 歡迎大家來"},{"start":295.484,"end":296.467,"text":"審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具"},{"start":308.644,"end":333.211,"text":"審慎去檢討這個部分恐怕我沒有辦法做很明確的回答今天我們花一點點時間去討論移民政策的原因就是這個事情當然知識體大但我想新的政府上台之後移民政策是一個很重要的東西因為少子化跟高齡化已經大軍壓境再不討論大家再把頭埋在土裡是沒有意義的事情不管要開放還是要保守都要有一個明確的態度好不好這是我今天要提醒署長的部分再來次長"},{"start":334.144,"end":361.317,"text":"有請花次長謝謝我們今天在討論這個新住民基本法就是因為我覺得這個法案有兩個重大意義第一個叫做宣誓意義宣誓意義就是我們的法條如果有專門的法律法案去保障新住民的權益我們在剛剛去花那麼多時間去談移民政策你才可以跟全世界講說我們是重視移民的我們是重視新住民權益保障的這樣的一個國家"},{"start":362.017,"end":362.437,"text":"審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具"},{"start":371.449,"end":394.926,"text":"市長你是內政部是天下第一大部對不對各種業務這麼繁重我們也就13、14個對不對內政委員會我們要從這個都市計畫管到警消這個這麼多的事情要討論對不對其實在各個部門都一樣你很難啊就理論上理想中的狀態啊都是各個部門都要重視新住民的權益叫真正的平等可是實務上來說做不到這件事"},{"start":395.606,"end":411.036,"text":"所以不管是新住民也好原住民也好等等在少數跟弱勢的族群我們會需要所謂的專職單位就是因為要有的專職單位把這個話語權來做提升在跨部會協調的時候它有它的份量跟重要性它的政策的比重跟關注度才會提升"},{"start":411.616,"end":430.584,"text":"所以這是這一部法案的實質意義它既有宣示的意義也有實質的意義其實它是有充分的正當性剛剛市長在答詢其他委員的時候講說我們要發現問題解決問題我要告訴市長發現解決問題就像我們提案說明一樣你從106年講到現在也夠了啦該次要有一部明確的法案要往前走了啦"},{"start":431.224,"end":456.676,"text":"之前提過新住民保障法這基本草案這本黨之前的立法委員林立禪委員他有講他說我們在社會倡議為了要幫新住民爭取權益我們當然要講好講滿但是講好講滿的用意是要政府提出相對問候的版本然後大家在妥協的過程中前進我就非常認同這樣的概念但是我們這樣去提之後顯然到現在連院版都沒有出來我想這是讓很多新住民好朋友是非常非常失望的"},{"start":457.176,"end":457.576,"text":"審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具"},{"start":475.504,"end":475.804,"text":"審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具"}]}}}}