{"id":151848,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151848","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e90f54132b1096e63b250450ed07f6705b40abc3f7af24af34e2527b10508eeec6e21bf91d2494025ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃捷","委員發言時間":"10:32:26 - 10:39:28","影片長度":"00:07:02","會議時間":"2024-04-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、「新住民權益保障法草案」及「新住民基本法草案」：(詢答及處理)(一)審查委員羅美玲等22人擬具「新住民權益保障法草案」案。(二)審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「新住民基本法草案」案。(三)審查委員張智倫等18人擬具「新住民基本法草案」案。(四)審查國民黨黨團擬具「新住民基本法草案」案。(五)審查委員蘇巧慧等26人擬具「新住民基本法草案」案。【第(四)案及第(五)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】二、繼續審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等20人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第二十條之一條文草案」案。\n\n備註：4月29日（星期一）、5月1日(星期三)【兩天一次會】）","date":"2024-04-29","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-15"},"duration":422,"end_time":"2024-04-29T10:39:28+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-29T10:32:26+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":720,"blocks":[["黃委員捷：（10時32分）謝謝主席，我們請花次長。"],["主席：請花次長。"],["花次長敬群：黃委員好。"],["黃委員捷：次長好。今天不管是基本法還是權益保障法，我覺得都非常重要，為什麼呢？其實剛剛花次長的答復，大家不是很滿意，你還是太功利導向地說我們要先有解決的事項才來討論要不要有一個完整的基本法，但在國外任何注重人權的國家，早就已經把這樣的基本法訂好了，所以我覺得現在不是還要討論是不是先一條一條列出解決事項才回頭訂這個基本法，這是一個態度的問題。剛剛也有很多人提到臺灣已經有超過60萬新住民，我們新住民成長的速度真的非常快，我看到內政部現在有一個新住民照顧服務措施的政策，可是我拿一個例子來講好了，韓國在2007年就已經訂出外國人處遇基本法，內容包括人權的保障、生活適應的支持、友善的環境還有反歧視，這些重要的規定早就訂在裡面了，每五年他們會提出外國人基本政策的計畫方針，然後趕快隨時調整，達到促進韓國社會的整合目標，而且他們現在已經進到第二期的計畫了。所以我還是再請教一下次長的態度，我們內政部到底支不支持今天來審查不管是新住民基本法還是權益的保障法？"],["花次長敬群：報告委員，其實韓國的法案也一樣是以婚姻、就業跟投資移民為對象，尤其特別針對婚姻移民的部分，所以我覺得這個部分不是不能訂，也不是不能討論，而在於我們現階段對於新住民的定義到底該是如何，甚至要不要實質面到成立專責機構，因為這些事情就會進入到實質，背後就有很多的配套。我跟委員報告，現階段各部會是針對它專業的事情來服務新住民，所謂的專責機構是未來都用那個專責機構來服務新住民的所有事情嗎？我看應該也不是，就像原民會，也不可能原住民的所有事情只由原民會負責，內政部、文化部、教育部都不用負責，不可能！現在的實質面其實各部會也都在做……"],["黃委員捷：我覺得這個組織到底要怎麼劃分都可以在逐條的時候再討論，我現在希望部裡要有一個態度，因為這些原則訂出來是我們承諾非常廣納所有的新住民來臺灣，融入臺灣的社會，我覺得這是一個基本的態度，現在不要一直進到細節說我們到底要不要有專責機構、哪一個專責機構，其實不是這樣的。我講一下，國際上有一個評比是移民融合政策的指標，有很多人權國家都有被評比，結果臺灣在這個評比裡面只有42分，一樣的條件之下，我們跟希臘、義大利的分數差不多，瑞典是77分，也就是我們在這樣的移民政策裡面並不符合目前國際上的人權趨勢，要改善的地方還有很多。","例如在勞動市場上面，我舉一個例子，有一個新住民的生活調查，來臺灣八年多的一個泰國配偶，他本來已經面試錄取工作了，他的居留證上面有加註「持證人工作不須申請工作許可」，但還是被公司拒絕了，這是實際發生過的案例，代表臺灣的就業市場對於外國人、對於新住民來臺灣，即便都已經有這樣的認證了，但在就業市場上還是非常不友善。當然還有很多，例如有些新住民提到因為社會救助法的資格審查必須包括職業、血親的收入，需要提供無扶養能力證明才能排除，不然會算出他的虛擬所得，所以有些新住民還要請母國的父母到很遠的市中心去準備文件，然後公證、翻譯之後拿過來，再提供給我們，有人有這樣的經驗，我覺得這些對他們來說都有點過頭了，你知道嗎？所以我很希望，雖然你們不是主管機關，但臺灣各方面的機關對於新住民的接納條件真的是嚴苛到不行。","最後我再講一個，希望由部裡來回答，還是國籍法的問題。我們歸化國籍五年之後就不能再撤銷國籍，我當然知道是為了身分的安定性，這有它的精神所在。可是在第二項裡面提到，如果經法院確定判決是虛偽結婚或收養而歸化取得國籍者，超過五年還是可以撤銷國籍，這個問題其實也很多人講過了，撤銷國籍牽涉身分的變動，當然要很謹慎！而虛偽結婚牽涉到的是偽造文書，如果有些人犯的不是偽造文書，甚至是更嚴重的犯罪行為，但他取得國籍歸化5年之後還是不用撤銷國籍，變成這個假結婚的罪刑反而是一個特例、是一個更嚴苛看待的事情，我覺得在比例輕重的拿捏上會有一個問題！","所以我想要請教一下次長，對於這個大家已經討論很久的，為什麼特別針對虛偽結婚的偽造文書罪，而其他類型的犯罪在5年之後就沒有事情、就不需要撤銷？怎麼看待這個？"],["花次長敬群：我想那是因為他取得國籍的核心原因是虛偽的嘛，至於這個人的其他事情跟取得國籍這件事情是脫勾的，所以這當然必須要不一樣看待。"],["黃委員捷：是啦，當然我還是希望你們再討論一下，因為會變成大家特別針對這件事情，何謂假結婚？其實結婚的目的有非常多重的原因，你們現在判斷他是不是假結婚，其實是事後來看當初這個婚姻是不是虛偽的，我覺得你們在判斷的標準上其實有很多、很多檢討空間，所以我希望……"],["花次長敬群：好，這個如果該檢討，當然我們會檢討。"],["黃委員捷：對，這個可以回去再討論一下啦！"],["花次長敬群：是，謝謝委員。"],["黃委員捷：好，以上，謝謝。"],["主席：非常謝謝黃捷委員的質詢，謝謝次長、謝謝署長。","繼續請丁學忠委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":448,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-15","speakers":["高金素梅","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","張智倫","張宏陸","黃建賓","許宇甄","王美惠","黃捷","丁學忠","李柏毅","鄭天財Sra 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291.852, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 291.852, \"end\": 291.872, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"羅\"}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 291.872, \"end\": 292.152, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"玲\", \"start\": 292.152, \"end\": 292.352, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 292.352, \"end\": 292.452, \"score\": 0.762}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 292.452, \"end\": 292.472, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"擬\"}, {\"word\": \"具\", \"start\": 292.472, \"end\": 292.492, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 310.712, \"end\": 314.618, \"text\": \"審查委員羅美玲等19人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案案件 及新住民權益保障法草案案件 及新住民權益保障法草案案件\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 310.712, \"end\": 310.832, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 310.832, \"end\": 310.872, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"羅\"}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 310.872, \"end\": 310.892, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"玲\", \"start\": 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419.186, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 419.186, \"end\": 419.467, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"羅\"}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 419.467, \"end\": 419.608, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"玲\", \"start\": 419.608, \"end\": 419.668, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 419.668, \"end\": 419.689, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 419.689, \"end\": 419.729, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"擬\"}, {\"word\": \"具\", \"start\": 419.729, \"end\": 419.749, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,149 --> 00:00:24,098\n請花次請花次長莫委員好好次長好今天這個不管是基本法還是權益保障法我覺得都非常重要為什麼呢因為其實我覺得剛剛花次的答覆大家不是很滿意就是說你還是把它太功利導向的說我們要先有解決的事項才來討論說要不要有一個一個\n\n2\n00:00:26,298 --> 00:00:27,759\n《新住民基本法草案》案\n\n3\n00:00:44,906 --> 00:00:46,727\n台灣已經超過60萬人新住民成長速度非常快內政部有新住民照顧服務措施政策韓國在2007年訂了《外國人處遇基本法》\n\n4\n00:01:05,815 --> 00:01:21,731\n他們內容包括人權保障、生活適應的支持、友善的環境和反歧視這些重要的規定早就定在裡面了。每5年他們就會提出外國人基本政策的計劃方針,然後趕快\n\n5\n00:01:22,652 --> 00:01:34,066\n審查委員羅美玲等19人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案．立法院第11屆第1會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會\n\n6\n00:01:42,247 --> 00:01:43,787\n審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審\n\n7\n00:02:11,892 --> 00:02:12,733\n現階段當然各部會針對他專業的事情來服務新住民\n\n8\n00:02:25,911 --> 00:02:26,091\n審查委員\n\n9\n00:02:43,157 --> 00:02:47,281\n現在實質面其實各部會也都在做當然我覺得這個組織到底要怎麼劃分這個其實都可以在主條的時候再討論我現在希望部裡要有一個態度就是說因為我們這些原則定出來是我們\n\n10\n00:02:58,351 --> 00:03:26,257\n承諾我們非常廣納所有新住民來台灣融入台灣的社會我覺得這是一個基本的態度啦現在不要一直進到細節說我們到底要不要有什麼專責機構然後哪一個專責機構其實不是這樣的那我講一下其實國際上有一個評比就是有一個移民融合政策的指標那有很多的人權國家都有被評比那其實台灣在這個評比裡面結果只有42分\n\n11\n00:03:27,817 --> 00:03:28,237\n審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具\n\n12\n00:03:48,491 --> 00:04:06,302\n我舉一個例子有一個新住民的生活調查來台灣8年多的一個泰國的配偶他本來已經面試都已經錄取了可是他拿出拘留證上面拘留證有加註說這個持證的人工作不需經過不需要申請工作的許可但是還是被公司拒絕了\n\n13\n00:04:07,402 --> 00:04:11,524\n這是實際發生過的案例所以代表說台灣的這個就業市場其實對於外國人對於新住民來台灣即便都已經有這樣的認證了但是他還是在就業市場上非常的不友善那當然還有很多例如說\n\n14\n00:04:22,608 --> 00:04:49,109\n有些新住民有提到說因為我們在這個社會救助法的資格審查必須要包括職業血清的收入需要提供無撫養能力證明才能排除不然會算出他的虛擬所得所以有些新住民他還要請他的母國的父母到很遠的市中心去準備他的文件然後公證然後翻譯之後再拿過來再提供給我們有這樣的經驗那變成說我覺得這些其實都對他們來說都有一點過頭了\n\n15\n00:04:51,611 --> 00:04:52,492\n審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具\n\n16\n00:05:10,712 --> 00:05:14,618\n審查委員羅美玲等19人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案案件及新住民權益保障法草案案件及新住民權益保障法草案案件\n\n17\n00:05:27,555 --> 00:05:31,616\n那這個問題其實也很多人講過了就是說撤銷國籍它是一個牽涉他身份的變動當然要很謹慎那虛偽結婚他牽涉到的是偽造文書但是如果有些人他犯的不是偽造文書甚至是更嚴重的犯罪行為但是他取得這個國籍規劃五年之後他還是不用撤銷國籍\n\n18\n00:05:48,320 --> 00:06:13,637\n那變成說好像這個假結婚的罪行反而是一個特例然後是一個更嚴苛看待的事情會變成他的比例的輕重在拿捏上我覺得會有一個問題所以我想要請教一下我們次長對於這個大家已經討論很久的為什麼特別針對這個虛偽結婚的偽造文書罪那跟其他類型的犯罪五年之後就沒有事情就不需要撤銷這個怎麼來看待\n\n19\n00:06:16,257 --> 00:06:16,337\n審查委員\n\n20\n00:06:30,470 --> 00:06:57,791\n當然我還是希望因為會變成說大家特別針對這件事情因為何謂假結婚這個其實結婚的目的有非常多重的原因你不能就是因為你們現在判斷他是不是假結婚其實是用他事後來看判當初這個婚姻是不是虛偽的我覺得你們在判斷這個標準上其實有很多很多的檢討空間所以我希望當然我們會檢討對這個可以回去再討論一下好以上謝謝\n\n21\n00:06:59,005 --> 00:06:59,749\n審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n149\t24098\t請花次請花次長莫委員好好 次長好今天這個不管是基本法還是權益保障法我覺得都非常重要為什麼呢因為其實我覺得剛剛花次的答覆大家不是很滿意就是說你還是把它太功利導向的說我們要先有解決的事項才來討論說要不要有一個一個\n26298\t27759\t《新住民基本法草案》案\n44906\t46727\t台灣已經超過60萬人新住民成長速度非常快內政部有新住民照顧服務措施政策韓國在2007年訂了《外國人處遇基本法》\n65815\t81731\t他們內容包括人權保障、生活適應的支持、友善的環境和反歧視這些重要的規定早就定在裡面了。每5年他們就會提出外國人基本政策的計劃方針,然後趕快\n82652\t94066\t審查委員羅美玲等19人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案．立法院第11屆第1會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會\n102247\t103787\t審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審\n131892\t132733\t現階段當然各部會針對他專業的事情來服務新住民\n145911\t146091\t審查委員\n163157\t167281\t現在實質面其實各部會也都在做當然我覺得這個組織到底要怎麼劃分這個其實都可以在主條的時候再討論我現在希望部裡要有一個態度就是說因為我們這些原則定出來是我們\n178351\t206257\t承諾我們非常廣納所有新住民來台灣融入台灣的社會我覺得這是一個基本的態度啦現在不要一直進到細節說我們到底要不要有什麼專責機構然後哪一個專責機構其實不是這樣的那我講一下其實國際上有一個評比就是有一個移民融合政策的指標那有很多的人權國家都有被評比那其實台灣在這個評比裡面結果只有42分\n207817\t208237\t審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具\n228491\t246302\t我舉一個例子有一個新住民的生活調查來台灣8年多的一個泰國的配偶他本來已經面試都已經錄取了可是他拿出拘留證上面拘留證有加註說這個持證的人工作不需經過不需要申請工作的許可但是還是被公司拒絕了\n247402\t251524\t這是實際發生過的案例所以代表說台灣的這個就業市場其實對於外國人對於新住民來台灣即便都已經有這樣的認證了但是他還是在就業市場上非常的不友善那當然還有很多例如說\n262608\t289109\t有些新住民有提到說因為我們在這個社會救助法的資格審查必須要包括職業血清的收入需要提供無撫養能力證明才能排除不然會算出他的虛擬所得所以有些新住民他還要請他的母國的父母到很遠的市中心去準備他的文件然後公證然後翻譯之後再拿過來再提供給我們有這樣的經驗那變成說我覺得這些其實都對他們來說都有一點過頭了\n291611\t292492\t審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具\n310712\t314618\t審查委員羅美玲等19人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案案件 及新住民權益保障法草案案件 及新住民權益保障法草案案件\n327555\t331616\t那這個問題其實也很多人講過了就是說撤銷國籍它是一個牽涉他身份的變動當然要很謹慎那虛偽結婚他牽涉到的是偽造文書但是如果有些人他犯的不是偽造文書甚至是更嚴重的犯罪行為但是他取得這個國籍規劃五年之後他還是不用撤銷國籍\n348320\t373637\t那變成說好像這個假結婚的罪行反而是一個特例然後是一個更嚴苛看待的事情會變成他的比例的輕重在拿捏上我覺得會有一個問題所以我想要請教一下我們次長對於這個大家已經討論很久的為什麼特別針對這個虛偽結婚的偽造文書罪那跟其他類型的犯罪五年之後就沒有事情就不需要撤銷這個怎麼來看待\n376257\t376337\t審查委員\n390470\t417791\t當然我還是希望因為會變成說大家特別針對這件事情因為何謂假結婚這個其實結婚的目的有非常多重的原因你不能就是因為你們現在判斷他是不是假結婚其實是用他事後來看判當初這個婚姻是不是虛偽的我覺得你們在判斷這個標準上其實有很多很多的檢討空間所以我希望當然我們會檢討對這個可以回去再討論一下好以上謝謝\n419005\t419749\t審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具\n","txt":"請花次請花次長莫委員好好 次長好今天這個不管是基本法還是權益保障法我覺得都非常重要為什麼呢因為其實我覺得剛剛花次的答覆大家不是很滿意就是說你還是把它太功利導向的說我們要先有解決的事項才來討論說要不要有一個一個\n《新住民基本法草案》案\n台灣已經超過60萬人新住民成長速度非常快內政部有新住民照顧服務措施政策韓國在2007年訂了《外國人處遇基本法》\n他們內容包括人權保障、生活適應的支持、友善的環境和反歧視這些重要的規定早就定在裡面了。每5年他們就會提出外國人基本政策的計劃方針,然後趕快\n審查委員羅美玲等19人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案．立法院第11屆第1會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會\n審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審\n現階段當然各部會針對他專業的事情來服務新住民\n審查委員\n現在實質面其實各部會也都在做當然我覺得這個組織到底要怎麼劃分這個其實都可以在主條的時候再討論我現在希望部裡要有一個態度就是說因為我們這些原則定出來是我們\n承諾我們非常廣納所有新住民來台灣融入台灣的社會我覺得這是一個基本的態度啦現在不要一直進到細節說我們到底要不要有什麼專責機構然後哪一個專責機構其實不是這樣的那我講一下其實國際上有一個評比就是有一個移民融合政策的指標那有很多的人權國家都有被評比那其實台灣在這個評比裡面結果只有42分\n審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具\n我舉一個例子有一個新住民的生活調查來台灣8年多的一個泰國的配偶他本來已經面試都已經錄取了可是他拿出拘留證上面拘留證有加註說這個持證的人工作不需經過不需要申請工作的許可但是還是被公司拒絕了\n這是實際發生過的案例所以代表說台灣的這個就業市場其實對於外國人對於新住民來台灣即便都已經有這樣的認證了但是他還是在就業市場上非常的不友善那當然還有很多例如說\n有些新住民有提到說因為我們在這個社會救助法的資格審查必須要包括職業血清的收入需要提供無撫養能力證明才能排除不然會算出他的虛擬所得所以有些新住民他還要請他的母國的父母到很遠的市中心去準備他的文件然後公證然後翻譯之後再拿過來再提供給我們有這樣的經驗那變成說我覺得這些其實都對他們來說都有一點過頭了\n審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具\n審查委員羅美玲等19人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案案件 及新住民權益保障法草案案件 及新住民權益保障法草案案件\n那這個問題其實也很多人講過了就是說撤銷國籍它是一個牽涉他身份的變動當然要很謹慎那虛偽結婚他牽涉到的是偽造文書但是如果有些人他犯的不是偽造文書甚至是更嚴重的犯罪行為但是他取得這個國籍規劃五年之後他還是不用撤銷國籍\n那變成說好像這個假結婚的罪行反而是一個特例然後是一個更嚴苛看待的事情會變成他的比例的輕重在拿捏上我覺得會有一個問題所以我想要請教一下我們次長對於這個大家已經討論很久的為什麼特別針對這個虛偽結婚的偽造文書罪那跟其他類型的犯罪五年之後就沒有事情就不需要撤銷這個怎麼來看待\n審查委員\n當然我還是希望因為會變成說大家特別針對這件事情因為何謂假結婚這個其實結婚的目的有非常多重的原因你不能就是因為你們現在判斷他是不是假結婚其實是用他事後來看判當初這個婚姻是不是虛偽的我覺得你們在判斷這個標準上其實有很多很多的檢討空間所以我希望當然我們會檢討對這個可以回去再討論一下好以上謝謝\n審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.149 --> 00:24.098\n請花次請花次長莫委員好好次長好今天這個不管是基本法還是權益保障法我覺得都非常重要為什麼呢因為其實我覺得剛剛花次的答覆大家不是很滿意就是說你還是把它太功利導向的說我們要先有解決的事項才來討論說要不要有一個一個\n\n00:26.298 --> 00:27.759\n《新住民基本法草案》案\n\n00:44.906 --> 00:46.727\n台灣已經超過60萬人新住民成長速度非常快內政部有新住民照顧服務措施政策韓國在2007年訂了《外國人處遇基本法》\n\n01:05.815 --> 01:21.731\n他們內容包括人權保障、生活適應的支持、友善的環境和反歧視這些重要的規定早就定在裡面了。每5年他們就會提出外國人基本政策的計劃方針,然後趕快\n\n01:22.652 --> 01:34.066\n審查委員羅美玲等19人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案．立法院第11屆第1會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會\n\n01:42.247 --> 01:43.787\n審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審\n\n02:11.892 --> 02:12.733\n現階段當然各部會針對他專業的事情來服務新住民\n\n02:25.911 --> 02:26.091\n審查委員\n\n02:43.157 --> 02:47.281\n現在實質面其實各部會也都在做當然我覺得這個組織到底要怎麼劃分這個其實都可以在主條的時候再討論我現在希望部裡要有一個態度就是說因為我們這些原則定出來是我們\n\n02:58.351 --> 03:26.257\n承諾我們非常廣納所有新住民來台灣融入台灣的社會我覺得這是一個基本的態度啦現在不要一直進到細節說我們到底要不要有什麼專責機構然後哪一個專責機構其實不是這樣的那我講一下其實國際上有一個評比就是有一個移民融合政策的指標那有很多的人權國家都有被評比那其實台灣在這個評比裡面結果只有42分\n\n03:27.817 --> 03:28.237\n審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具\n\n03:48.491 --> 04:06.302\n我舉一個例子有一個新住民的生活調查來台灣8年多的一個泰國的配偶他本來已經面試都已經錄取了可是他拿出拘留證上面拘留證有加註說這個持證的人工作不需經過不需要申請工作的許可但是還是被公司拒絕了\n\n04:07.402 --> 04:11.524\n這是實際發生過的案例所以代表說台灣的這個就業市場其實對於外國人對於新住民來台灣即便都已經有這樣的認證了但是他還是在就業市場上非常的不友善那當然還有很多例如說\n\n04:22.608 --> 04:49.109\n有些新住民有提到說因為我們在這個社會救助法的資格審查必須要包括職業血清的收入需要提供無撫養能力證明才能排除不然會算出他的虛擬所得所以有些新住民他還要請他的母國的父母到很遠的市中心去準備他的文件然後公證然後翻譯之後再拿過來再提供給我們有這樣的經驗那變成說我覺得這些其實都對他們來說都有一點過頭了\n\n04:51.611 --> 04:52.492\n審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具\n\n05:10.712 --> 05:14.618\n審查委員羅美玲等19人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案案件及新住民權益保障法草案案件及新住民權益保障法草案案件\n\n05:27.555 --> 05:31.616\n那這個問題其實也很多人講過了就是說撤銷國籍它是一個牽涉他身份的變動當然要很謹慎那虛偽結婚他牽涉到的是偽造文書但是如果有些人他犯的不是偽造文書甚至是更嚴重的犯罪行為但是他取得這個國籍規劃五年之後他還是不用撤銷國籍\n\n05:48.320 --> 06:13.637\n那變成說好像這個假結婚的罪行反而是一個特例然後是一個更嚴苛看待的事情會變成他的比例的輕重在拿捏上我覺得會有一個問題所以我想要請教一下我們次長對於這個大家已經討論很久的為什麼特別針對這個虛偽結婚的偽造文書罪那跟其他類型的犯罪五年之後就沒有事情就不需要撤銷這個怎麼來看待\n\n06:16.257 --> 06:16.337\n審查委員\n\n06:30.470 --> 06:57.791\n當然我還是希望因為會變成說大家特別針對這件事情因為何謂假結婚這個其實結婚的目的有非常多重的原因你不能就是因為你們現在判斷他是不是假結婚其實是用他事後來看判當初這個婚姻是不是虛偽的我覺得你們在判斷這個標準上其實有很多很多的檢討空間所以我希望當然我們會檢討對這個可以回去再討論一下好以上謝謝\n\n06:59.005 --> 06:59.749\n審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.149,"end":24.098,"text":"請花次請花次長莫委員好好 次長好今天這個不管是基本法還是權益保障法我覺得都非常重要為什麼呢因為其實我覺得剛剛花次的答覆大家不是很滿意就是說你還是把它太功利導向的說我們要先有解決的事項才來討論說要不要有一個一個"},{"start":26.298,"end":27.759,"text":"《新住民基本法草案》案"},{"start":44.906,"end":46.727,"text":"台灣已經超過60萬人新住民成長速度非常快內政部有新住民照顧服務措施政策韓國在2007年訂了《外國人處遇基本法》"},{"start":65.815,"end":81.731,"text":"他們內容包括人權保障、生活適應的支持、友善的環境和反歧視這些重要的規定早就定在裡面了。每5年他們就會提出外國人基本政策的計劃方針,然後趕快"},{"start":82.652,"end":94.066,"text":"審查委員羅美玲等19人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案．立法院第11屆第1會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會議．立法院第11屆第2會"},{"start":102.247,"end":103.787,"text":"審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審查委員審"},{"start":131.892,"end":132.733,"text":"現階段當然各部會針對他專業的事情來服務新住民"},{"start":145.911,"end":146.091,"text":"審查委員"},{"start":163.157,"end":167.281,"text":"現在實質面其實各部會也都在做當然我覺得這個組織到底要怎麼劃分這個其實都可以在主條的時候再討論我現在希望部裡要有一個態度就是說因為我們這些原則定出來是我們"},{"start":178.351,"end":206.257,"text":"承諾我們非常廣納所有新住民來台灣融入台灣的社會我覺得這是一個基本的態度啦現在不要一直進到細節說我們到底要不要有什麼專責機構然後哪一個專責機構其實不是這樣的那我講一下其實國際上有一個評比就是有一個移民融合政策的指標那有很多的人權國家都有被評比那其實台灣在這個評比裡面結果只有42分"},{"start":207.817,"end":208.237,"text":"審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具"},{"start":228.491,"end":246.302,"text":"我舉一個例子有一個新住民的生活調查來台灣8年多的一個泰國的配偶他本來已經面試都已經錄取了可是他拿出拘留證上面拘留證有加註說這個持證的人工作不需經過不需要申請工作的許可但是還是被公司拒絕了"},{"start":247.402,"end":251.524,"text":"這是實際發生過的案例所以代表說台灣的這個就業市場其實對於外國人對於新住民來台灣即便都已經有這樣的認證了但是他還是在就業市場上非常的不友善那當然還有很多例如說"},{"start":262.608,"end":289.109,"text":"有些新住民有提到說因為我們在這個社會救助法的資格審查必須要包括職業血清的收入需要提供無撫養能力證明才能排除不然會算出他的虛擬所得所以有些新住民他還要請他的母國的父母到很遠的市中心去準備他的文件然後公證然後翻譯之後再拿過來再提供給我們有這樣的經驗那變成說我覺得這些其實都對他們來說都有一點過頭了"},{"start":291.611,"end":292.492,"text":"審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具"},{"start":310.712,"end":314.618,"text":"審查委員羅美玲等19人擬具:「新住民權益保障法草案案案件 及新住民權益保障法草案案件 及新住民權益保障法草案案件"},{"start":327.555,"end":331.616,"text":"那這個問題其實也很多人講過了就是說撤銷國籍它是一個牽涉他身份的變動當然要很謹慎那虛偽結婚他牽涉到的是偽造文書但是如果有些人他犯的不是偽造文書甚至是更嚴重的犯罪行為但是他取得這個國籍規劃五年之後他還是不用撤銷國籍"},{"start":348.32,"end":373.637,"text":"那變成說好像這個假結婚的罪行反而是一個特例然後是一個更嚴苛看待的事情會變成他的比例的輕重在拿捏上我覺得會有一個問題所以我想要請教一下我們次長對於這個大家已經討論很久的為什麼特別針對這個虛偽結婚的偽造文書罪那跟其他類型的犯罪五年之後就沒有事情就不需要撤銷這個怎麼來看待"},{"start":376.257,"end":376.337,"text":"審查委員"},{"start":390.47,"end":417.791,"text":"當然我還是希望因為會變成說大家特別針對這件事情因為何謂假結婚這個其實結婚的目的有非常多重的原因你不能就是因為你們現在判斷他是不是假結婚其實是用他事後來看判當初這個婚姻是不是虛偽的我覺得你們在判斷這個標準上其實有很多很多的檢討空間所以我希望當然我們會檢討對這個可以回去再討論一下好以上謝謝"},{"start":419.005,"end":419.749,"text":"審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具"}]}}}}