{"id":151854,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151854","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e90f54132b1096e6084ce747a52dfb4f054712d423581dcc34e2527b10508eee923b70b41c55a0415ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林宜瑾","委員發言時間":"10:57:17 - 11:06:20","影片長度":"00:09:03","會議時間":"2024-04-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請文化部、教育部、內政部、法務部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部及行政院主計總處列席就「表演及運動賽事黃牛票氾濫，相關單位取締、防範及執法成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢。（4月29日及5月2日二天一次會））","date":"2024-04-29","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-10"},"duration":543,"end_time":"2024-04-29T11:06:20+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-29T10:57:17+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":615,"blocks":[["林委員宜瑾：（10時57分）謝謝召委，有請王次長跟鄭署長。"],["主席：好，請次長跟署長，謝謝。"],["王次長時思：委員好。"],["林委員宜瑾：次長好。去年我們陸續修了文創法跟運產條例，所以今天特別來跟你討論一下。去年修正文創法跟運產條例，在通過修法的時候，我記得有幾個附帶決議，其中一項附帶決議就是說，如果賣方以原價轉售，收取手續費或者是寄送費，在合理範圍內是不構成加價轉售的，想請問所謂的合理範圍是否已經明定了價格範圍跟所謂的判斷指引，有沒有提供相關資料給相關單位參考？"],["王次長時思：跟委員回復，就價格的本身，我們沒有訂定一個固定的趴數或者是價格，主要的原因是因為在修法的期間，當時我們一開始的提案是將百分之十視為合理定價，但後來這一點受到很大的反對，認為那就等於承認黃牛有百分之十的空間，所以把這個趴數移除了。我們現在的判斷基準就是說，這些所謂的合理費用指的是因為要販售這個票券所產生的必要費用，也就是說，這個票券被當成二手票在販售，如果需要郵寄或者是需要交通，是由第三方來收到這個金額，而不是售票者自己收取，因為這是必要性的花費，就會屬於合理的範圍，目前的定義是這樣。"],["林委員宜瑾：所以這個合理範圍還是用文字去敘述，就是沒有辦法……"],["王次長時思：對，比較沒有辦法有一個量上的確定。"],["林委員宜瑾：這樣的指引有沒有給各地方政府？"],["王次長時思：地方政府的部分，我們都有說明會，也會有函釋。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，接下來想請教的就是剛剛柯志恩召委也有提到的檢舉黃牛專區的問題，說真的，基本的網頁，民眾基本上一定會從Google去搜尋，如果用Google搜尋「檢舉黃牛專區」，出現的一定是文化部新設立的藝文票券的檢舉黃牛專區，這個做得很完整，民眾一看就一目瞭然，點哪裡就可以查詢什麼，可是我們反過來看運動票券的檢舉專區，搜尋結果不是在第一個，還要往下滑，要先滑到動滋券的相關網頁裡面才能間接找到那個檢舉專區，而且網路用戶的體驗都不是那麼好。雖然有檢舉和查詢進度的按鈕，可是真的沒有藝文票券那麼清楚明瞭。所以剛剛柯召委也有指點你，而我則是想具體請教，你說要優化，那你優化和改善的進程為何？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，照理講這個部分在6月底之前應該可以完全改善。"],["林委員宜瑾：6月底以前？好！那就期待6月底以前有跟文化部一樣明瞭易懂的網路頁面可以進去。","本席認為打擊黃牛應該要跨部會共同執行，剛剛柯召委也有提到，既然藝文票券和運動票券都有檢舉專區，那麼是不是可以進一步思考把這兩個統合在一起？這些在行政院院會你們都可以拿出來提，因為我知道這並非文化部或教育部可以來處理，可是如果有一個統一的檢舉專區的網頁，點進去再依藝文票券或運動票券來選，我覺得這樣對民眾的搜尋和檢舉會比較容易，對不對？"],["王次長時思：跟委員說明，主要是因為我們兩個部會所針對的票券型式不同、法源依據也不同，所以整合在一個專區恐怕會產生一些混亂並遭受質疑，譬如運動票券為什麼不適用藝文票券的標準，或者是藝文票券為什麼不用運動票券的標準，我覺得民眾在適用上恐怕會有一些疑慮，但是我覺得可以做的事情比較是其實現在委員們也都在談的，就是這個部分可不可以有一個整合性的、專法型的規範來規範黃牛？因為黃牛除了藝文跟運動，在其他……"],["林委員宜瑾：就是不要分別放在兩個法裡面。"],["王次長時思：對，因為以現在這樣的方式，部會審查時遲早會遇到問題，尤其執行單位都在地方政府，會出現執法和判准上的落差，這個也是我們現在最警覺在防範的，但是我覺得就根本之道來說，也許我們更願意支持一個專法的誕生，以此來做一個整合。"],["林委員宜瑾：OK，我也很支持用專法來處理。","再來本席想要討論零元票券的問題，去年底我們在審查運動產業發展條例的時候，關於黃牛票的相關罰則，我就有特別提醒如果有不肖人士用零元票券來炒作要如何懲處和防制的問題，當時我舉的例子是大巨蛋測試賽開放1.3萬張票供民眾索取，可是票券被索取一空之後，有很多遭黃牛轉賣，炒到1張四、五千塊錢，此事媒體報導的篇幅很大。像大巨蛋測試賽數量這麼龐大的零元票券是千年一遇，不是常有的狀況，可是我覺得我們應該要制定一定的法規，不容黃牛從中干預。現在包括文化票券也一樣，當然文化票券的部分我有請教文化部，得到的答復是你們零元票券的狀況比較少，因為你們通常是以付費觀賞為主，所以基本上比較不會去思考零元票券的罰則和防範的做法。"],["王次長時思：沒有、沒有，跟委員說明兩個部分，我們藝文票券有兩種零元的狀況，第一種是公關票，公關票的部分我們會依據它的區位來認定票價，所以一樣可以依文創法第十條之一來進行裁罰，第二種狀況是整場不收費，就是像剛剛委員提到的大巨蛋那種情況，因為當時立法維護的法益是市場交易公平性，是以藝文票券的市場交易公平性做為文創法第十條之一修法的法益基礎，所以當時就沒有把所謂的零元放進來，現在如果在藝文部分有零元的狀況，我們可以來做個案的討論，看看是不是有需要修法跟上，因為目前來說，藝文表演活動的演出比較少用零元的方式，然後我們主要保護的其實也是藝文票券交易的市場秩序。"],["林委員宜瑾：瞭解。"],["王次長時思：所以差異是在這裡。"],["林委員宜瑾：是啦！零元票通常是公關票……"],["王次長時思：對，公關票是可以的。"],["林委員宜瑾：那個時候我們沒有想到像大巨蛋測試賽這樣的狀況，可是我的意思是說，沒有規範到的部分那時好像是類似改採行政措施去處理嘛！"],["王次長時思：對，因為它就會被取消資格，就是如果有查到，還是可以檢舉，檢舉的話就會取消他的入場資格等等，以這些行政方法去做。"],["林委員宜瑾：可是這樣的話我們就會反向來看，因為這樣好像在懲罰消費者，而不是懲罰賣的人，你懂我的意思嗎？就是我拿到這張票，然後要進場的時候被取消資格，因為我是消費端……"],["王次長時思：所以我們還是要跟大家說，最好就是不要買黃牛票啦，買了黃牛票就會有各種風險和代價。"],["林委員宜瑾：當然、當然，可是這個賣的人更可惡啦！認真講是這樣。"],["王次長時思：是、是、是。"],["林委員宜瑾：所以我的意思是，剛才您說要立個專法，這個我贊成，可是在專法還沒有出來之前，是不是還是要在文創法裡面對於零元票券的情形有一些防範跟作為？"],["王次長時思：我們來看實務上有什麼方式可以做禁止或相關的改善，因為目前零元票券比較不是藝文票券市場的主流，也很少發生，但如果一旦發生了，我們就針對這個個案來看，如果零元票券確有發生所謂黃牛票的行為的時候，我們應該會針對這個個案，以現行文創法第十條之一為基礎來做一定的防範。"],["林委員宜瑾：OK，好，謝謝次長、謝謝署長、謝謝召委。"],["王次長時思：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝林召委。","接下來我們請范雲委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":310,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-10","speakers":["柯志恩","萬美玲","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","葛如鈞","葉元之","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","范雲","張雅琳","吳春城","羅廷瑋","黃珊珊","黃捷","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","邱志偉","張啓楷","羅智強","林倩綺","林楚茵","劉建國"],"page_start":243,"meetingDate":["2024-04-29"],"gazette_id":"1133901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133901_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請文化部、教育部、內政部、法務部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部及行政院主計總處列\n席就「表演及運動賽事黃牛票氾濫，相關單位取締、防範及執法成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1133901_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"151854","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151854","tool":"pyannote","id":"151854-pyannote"},"job_id":"rLfqWWUBUf7ON6on","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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00:00:19,398\n去年我們陸續修了文創法跟運產條例所以今天特別來跟討論一下就是說去年修文創法跟運產條例的時候通過修法時我記得有幾個附帶決議\n\n3\n00:00:36,992 --> 00:00:58,216\n其中一項負債決就是說如果賣方以原價轉售收取手續費或者是寄送費在合理範圍內是不構成加價轉售的那想請問說所謂的合理範圍是否已經明定了這個價格範圍跟所謂的判斷的指引有沒有提供相關的這個資料給相關的單位做參考\n\n4\n00:01:01,457 --> 00:01:27,729\n跟委員回覆就價格的本身我們沒有訂定一個固定的一個%數或者是價格主要的原因是因為說在修法時間的期間裡面當時是說我們一開始提案是10%視為合理定價但後來這一點受到很大的反對就認為說那就等於承認黃牛有10%的空間所以把這個%數就拿移除那我們現在的判斷基準就是說這些所謂的合理費用指的就是你是因為要販售這個票券\n\n5\n00:01:29,110 --> 00:01:53,572\n的產生的必要費用也就是這個票已經被當成二手票在做販售那如果你需要郵寄或者是需要交通是由第三方來收到這個金額的就是不是你自己收其實是因為必要性的花費它就會屬於合理的範圍目前的所以這個合理範圍還是用文字去輸出就是沒有辦法對它比較沒有辦法有一個可是這樣的基因有沒有給各地方政府地方政府的我們都在都有說明會也會有韓式\n\n6\n00:01:55,954 --> 00:02:21,164\n好那想請教就是說剛剛柯貞昭委有提到就是檢舉黃牛專區的問題喔真的說真的基本的網頁喔我們民眾基本上一定會從Google去搜尋那如果你Google搜尋檢舉黃牛專區喔出現的一定是文化部先設立的這個藝文票券黃牛那個票的這個檢舉專區那做得很完整\n\n7\n00:02:21,624 --> 00:02:39,893\n我覺得民眾一看就是一目了然點哪裡就可以查詢什麼可是我們反過來看運動票券的檢舉專區搜尋結果就不是第一個還要往下滑再間接滑到從動資券相關的網頁裡面再去找找檢舉專區而且網路的用戶體驗都不是那麼好\n\n8\n00:02:45,296 --> 00:03:09,714\n那雖然有檢舉跟這個查詢的進度的按鈕可是真的沒有藝文票卷那樣的清楚明瞭所以剛剛柯昭偉也有指點你那我是想具體請教您說要優化那你優化跟改善的這個進程何時包委員我想這個部分應該要在6月底之前應該可以完全改善\n\n9\n00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:34,451\n6月底前好那就期待6月底前有跟文化部一樣的這個明瞭易懂的這個頁面進去好那本席認為就是說打擊黃牛我們應該要跨部會來共同執行剛剛柯昭偉也有提到說其實我們既然藝文票券跟運動票券都有檢舉的專區那我們是不是可以進步思考把兩個統合在一起\n\n10\n00:03:35,291 --> 00:03:35,611\n主要是因為我們兩個部會所\n\n11\n00:04:03,788 --> 00:04:29,980\n針對的票券的形式不同法源依據也不同所以整合在一個專區恐怕會有一些混亂跟質疑那它運動票券為什麼不是用一文票券的標準或者一文票券為什麼會不用運動票券標準我覺得是恐怕在民眾的適用上會有一些疑慮但是我覺得可以做的事情比較是其實現在委員們也都在談就是說這個部分可不可以有一個整合性的專法型的規範來規範黃牛\n\n12\n00:04:31,621 --> 00:04:55,089\n其實黃牛除了藝文跟運動就是說不要分別放在兩個法裡面因為現在以這樣的方式來說遲早都會出現部會在審查尤其執行單位都是在地方政府會出現那個執法跟判準上的落差那這個也是我們現在最警覺在防範的但是我覺得就根本之道來說也許我們更可願意支持一個專法的誕生的這些做一個總和\n\n13\n00:04:57,330 --> 00:05:26,232\n好OK我也很支持用專法來處理好那再來本席想要討論零元票券的問題軍營體我們在審查這個運動產業發展條例的時候關於黃牛票的相關法則我就有特別提醒就是說有不肖人士用零元的票券拿來炒作然後我們就就是說我們那時候就有討論說怎麼樣去懲處跟防治的問題那當時我舉的例子是大巨蛋那時候測試賽\n\n14\n00:05:27,913 --> 00:05:30,275\n那時候就是開放1.3萬張票來索取可是那時候就有很多被搶空然後黃牛拿來轉賣炒到一張四五千塊那時候媒體爆得很大那像大巨蛋這樣的測試賽這麼龐大的0元票券\n\n15\n00:05:46,705 --> 00:06:12,365\n當然我覺得這是千年一遇的狀況不長可是我覺得我們也要有制定一定的法規來不容黃牛從中來干預所以我們如果來看到現在的包括我們文化賽事也一樣文化票券也一樣當然文化票券我有請教文化部文化部是說零元票券狀況你們比較\n\n16\n00:06:14,864 --> 00:06:42,673\n你們比較難啊就是說你們通常是付費的觀賞比較為主所以這個所謂的這個林宜瑾票券的罰則跟防範的這個做法你們這部分好像沒有回答是說就基本上就是比較不思考這個問題沒有沒有跟委員說明兩個部分因為我們在藝文票券林宜瑾有兩種狀況第一種它是公關票那公關票的部分我們會依據它的區位認定票價所以它一樣是可以以文創法11條來進行裁罰的\n\n17\n00:06:44,113 --> 00:06:44,773\n主席主席主席\n\n18\n00:07:12,619 --> 00:07:40,540\n表演活動的演出比較少用零元的方式然後我們主要保護的其實也是這個這些議員票券交易的這個市場秩序所以差異是在這裡是啦我覺得因為當初我們就是我們有用所謂的這個因為我們零元票券通常是公關票嘛所以那時候我們沒有想到說類似像這種大巨蛋測試賽這樣可是我的意思是說沒有規範到齁\n\n19\n00:07:41,681 --> 00:07:52,966\n那我們那時候好像是那是改採行政措施去處理嗎對因為他就會被取消資格就是我查到他也可以檢舉檢舉他就會取消他的入場資格啊對對對對這一些方式用行政方法去做可是這樣子的話我們就會反下來看這樣好像懲罰消費者而不是懲罰賣的人你懂我意思嗎就是說我拿到這張票然後我要進場我被取消因為我是消費端因為我還是要跟大家說最好就是不要買黃牛票\n\n20\n00:08:12,202 --> 00:08:38,084\n所以買了黃牛票就會有各種風險跟代價對當然當然可是這個賣人更可惡啦人家講是這樣所以我的意思說是不是要當然您說要弄個專法這我贊成可是在專法還沒有這個出來之前是不是要還是要對於這個在文創法裡面這個對於零元票券的情形是不是要有一些這個防範跟作為我們來看\n\n21\n00:08:39,565 --> 00:08:40,005\n謝謝委員﹗謝謝署長﹗謝謝召委\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6307\t7048\t王次長、鄭署長\n17677\t19398\t去年我們陸續修了文創法跟運產條例所以今天特別來跟討論一下就是說去年修文創法跟運產條例的時候通過修法時我記得有幾個附帶決議\n36992\t58216\t其中一項負債決就是說如果賣方以原價轉售收取手續費或者是寄送費在合理範圍內是不構成加價轉售的那想請問說所謂的合理範圍是否已經明定了這個價格範圍跟所謂的判斷的指引有沒有提供相關的這個資料給相關的單位做參考\n61457\t87729\t跟委員回覆就價格的本身我們沒有訂定一個固定的一個%數或者是價格主要的原因是因為說在修法時間的期間裡面當時是說我們一開始提案是10%視為合理定價但後來這一點受到很大的反對就認為說那就等於承認黃牛有10%的空間所以把這個%數就拿移除那我們現在的判斷基準就是說這些所謂的合理費用指的就是你是因為要販售這個票券\n89110\t113572\t的產生的必要費用也就是這個票已經被當成二手票在做販售那如果你需要郵寄或者是需要交通是由第三方來收到這個金額的就是不是你自己收其實是因為必要性的花費它就會屬於合理的範圍目前的所以這個合理範圍還是用文字去輸出就是沒有辦法對它比較沒有辦法有一個可是這樣的基因有沒有給各地方政府地方政府的我們都在都有說明會也會有韓式\n115954\t141164\t好那想請教就是說剛剛柯貞昭委有提到就是檢舉黃牛專區的問題喔真的說真的基本的網頁喔我們民眾基本上一定會從Google去搜尋那如果你Google搜尋檢舉黃牛專區喔出現的一定是文化部先設立的這個藝文票券黃牛那個票的這個檢舉專區那做得很完整\n141624\t159893\t我覺得民眾一看就是一目了然點哪裡就可以查詢什麼可是我們反過來看運動票券的檢舉專區搜尋結果就不是第一個還要往下滑再間接滑到從動資券相關的網頁裡面再去找找檢舉專區而且網路的用戶體驗都不是那麼好\n165296\t189714\t那雖然有檢舉跟這個查詢的進度的按鈕可是真的沒有藝文票卷那樣的清楚明瞭所以剛剛柯昭偉也有指點你那我是想具體請教您說要優化那你優化跟改善的這個進程何時包委員我想這個部分應該要在6月底之前應該可以完全改善\n190720\t214451\t6月底前好那就期待6月底前有跟文化部一樣的這個明瞭易懂的這個頁面進去好那本席認為就是說打擊黃牛我們應該要跨部會來共同執行剛剛柯昭偉也有提到說其實我們既然藝文票券跟運動票券都有檢舉的專區那我們是不是可以進步思考把兩個統合在一起\n215291\t215611\t主要是因為我們兩個部會所\n243788\t269980\t針對的票券的形式不同法源依據也不同所以整合在一個專區恐怕會有一些混亂跟質疑那它運動票券為什麼不是用一文票券的標準或者一文票券為什麼會不用運動票券標準我覺得是恐怕在民眾的適用上會有一些疑慮但是我覺得可以做的事情比較是其實現在委員們也都在談就是說這個部分可不可以有一個整合性的專法型的規範來規範黃牛\n271621\t295089\t其實黃牛除了藝文跟運動就是說不要分別放在兩個法裡面因為現在以這樣的方式來說遲早都會出現部會在審查尤其執行單位都是在地方政府會出現那個執法跟判準上的落差那這個也是我們現在最警覺在防範的但是我覺得就根本之道來說也許我們更可願意支持一個專法的誕生的這些做一個總和\n297330\t326232\t好 OK我也很支持用專法來處理好那再來本席想要討論零元票券的問題軍營體我們在審查這個運動產業發展條例的時候關於黃牛票的相關法則我就有特別提醒就是說有不肖人士用零元的票券拿來炒作然後我們就就是說我們那時候就有討論說怎麼樣去懲處跟防治的問題那當時我舉的例子是大巨蛋那時候測試賽\n327913\t330275\t那時候就是開放1.3萬張票來索取可是那時候就有很多被搶空然後黃牛拿來轉賣炒到一張四五千塊那時候媒體爆得很大那像大巨蛋這樣的測試賽這麼龐大的0元票券\n346705\t372365\t當然我覺得這是千年一遇的狀況不長可是我覺得我們也要有制定一定的法規來不容黃牛從中來干預所以我們如果來看到現在的包括我們文化賽事也一樣文化票券也一樣當然文化票券我有請教文化部文化部是說零元票券狀況你們比較\n374864\t402673\t你們比較難啊就是說你們通常是付費的觀賞比較為主所以這個所謂的這個林宜瑾票券的罰則跟防範的這個做法你們這部分好像沒有回答是說就基本上就是比較不思考這個問題沒有沒有跟委員說明兩個部分因為我們在藝文票券林宜瑾有兩種狀況第一種它是公關票那公關票的部分我們會依據它的區位認定票價所以它一樣是可以以文創法11條來進行裁罰的\n404113\t404773\t主席主席主席\n432619\t460540\t表演活動的演出比較少用零元的方式然後我們主要保護的其實也是這個這些議員票券交易的這個市場秩序所以差異是在這裡是啦我覺得因為當初我們就是我們有用所謂的這個因為我們零元票券通常是公關票嘛所以那時候我們沒有想到說類似像這種大巨蛋測試賽這樣可是我的意思是說沒有規範到齁\n461681\t472966\t那我們那時候好像是那是改採行政措施去處理嗎對 因為他就會被取消資格就是我查到他也可以檢舉檢舉他就會取消他的入場資格啊對對對對這一些方式用行政方法去做可是這樣子的話我們就會反下來看這樣好像懲罰消費者而不是懲罰賣的人你懂我意思嗎就是說我拿到這張票然後我要進場我被取消因為我是消費端因為我還是要跟大家說最好就是不要買黃牛票\n492202\t518084\t所以買了黃牛票就會有各種風險跟代價對當然當然可是這個賣人更可惡啦人家講是這樣所以我的意思說是不是要當然您說要弄個專法這我贊成可是在專法還沒有這個出來之前是不是要還是要對於這個在文創法裡面這個對於零元票券的情形是不是要有一些這個防範跟作為我們來看\n519565\t520005\t謝謝委員﹗謝謝署長﹗謝謝召委\n","txt":"王次長、鄭署長\n去年我們陸續修了文創法跟運產條例所以今天特別來跟討論一下就是說去年修文創法跟運產條例的時候通過修法時我記得有幾個附帶決議\n其中一項負債決就是說如果賣方以原價轉售收取手續費或者是寄送費在合理範圍內是不構成加價轉售的那想請問說所謂的合理範圍是否已經明定了這個價格範圍跟所謂的判斷的指引有沒有提供相關的這個資料給相關的單位做參考\n跟委員回覆就價格的本身我們沒有訂定一個固定的一個%數或者是價格主要的原因是因為說在修法時間的期間裡面當時是說我們一開始提案是10%視為合理定價但後來這一點受到很大的反對就認為說那就等於承認黃牛有10%的空間所以把這個%數就拿移除那我們現在的判斷基準就是說這些所謂的合理費用指的就是你是因為要販售這個票券\n的產生的必要費用也就是這個票已經被當成二手票在做販售那如果你需要郵寄或者是需要交通是由第三方來收到這個金額的就是不是你自己收其實是因為必要性的花費它就會屬於合理的範圍目前的所以這個合理範圍還是用文字去輸出就是沒有辦法對它比較沒有辦法有一個可是這樣的基因有沒有給各地方政府地方政府的我們都在都有說明會也會有韓式\n好那想請教就是說剛剛柯貞昭委有提到就是檢舉黃牛專區的問題喔真的說真的基本的網頁喔我們民眾基本上一定會從Google去搜尋那如果你Google搜尋檢舉黃牛專區喔出現的一定是文化部先設立的這個藝文票券黃牛那個票的這個檢舉專區那做得很完整\n我覺得民眾一看就是一目了然點哪裡就可以查詢什麼可是我們反過來看運動票券的檢舉專區搜尋結果就不是第一個還要往下滑再間接滑到從動資券相關的網頁裡面再去找找檢舉專區而且網路的用戶體驗都不是那麼好\n那雖然有檢舉跟這個查詢的進度的按鈕可是真的沒有藝文票卷那樣的清楚明瞭所以剛剛柯昭偉也有指點你那我是想具體請教您說要優化那你優化跟改善的這個進程何時包委員我想這個部分應該要在6月底之前應該可以完全改善\n6月底前好那就期待6月底前有跟文化部一樣的這個明瞭易懂的這個頁面進去好那本席認為就是說打擊黃牛我們應該要跨部會來共同執行剛剛柯昭偉也有提到說其實我們既然藝文票券跟運動票券都有檢舉的專區那我們是不是可以進步思考把兩個統合在一起\n主要是因為我們兩個部會所\n針對的票券的形式不同法源依據也不同所以整合在一個專區恐怕會有一些混亂跟質疑那它運動票券為什麼不是用一文票券的標準或者一文票券為什麼會不用運動票券標準我覺得是恐怕在民眾的適用上會有一些疑慮但是我覺得可以做的事情比較是其實現在委員們也都在談就是說這個部分可不可以有一個整合性的專法型的規範來規範黃牛\n其實黃牛除了藝文跟運動就是說不要分別放在兩個法裡面因為現在以這樣的方式來說遲早都會出現部會在審查尤其執行單位都是在地方政府會出現那個執法跟判準上的落差那這個也是我們現在最警覺在防範的但是我覺得就根本之道來說也許我們更可願意支持一個專法的誕生的這些做一個總和\n好 OK我也很支持用專法來處理好那再來本席想要討論零元票券的問題軍營體我們在審查這個運動產業發展條例的時候關於黃牛票的相關法則我就有特別提醒就是說有不肖人士用零元的票券拿來炒作然後我們就就是說我們那時候就有討論說怎麼樣去懲處跟防治的問題那當時我舉的例子是大巨蛋那時候測試賽\n那時候就是開放1.3萬張票來索取可是那時候就有很多被搶空然後黃牛拿來轉賣炒到一張四五千塊那時候媒體爆得很大那像大巨蛋這樣的測試賽這麼龐大的0元票券\n當然我覺得這是千年一遇的狀況不長可是我覺得我們也要有制定一定的法規來不容黃牛從中來干預所以我們如果來看到現在的包括我們文化賽事也一樣文化票券也一樣當然文化票券我有請教文化部文化部是說零元票券狀況你們比較\n你們比較難啊就是說你們通常是付費的觀賞比較為主所以這個所謂的這個林宜瑾票券的罰則跟防範的這個做法你們這部分好像沒有回答是說就基本上就是比較不思考這個問題沒有沒有跟委員說明兩個部分因為我們在藝文票券林宜瑾有兩種狀況第一種它是公關票那公關票的部分我們會依據它的區位認定票價所以它一樣是可以以文創法11條來進行裁罰的\n主席主席主席\n表演活動的演出比較少用零元的方式然後我們主要保護的其實也是這個這些議員票券交易的這個市場秩序所以差異是在這裡是啦我覺得因為當初我們就是我們有用所謂的這個因為我們零元票券通常是公關票嘛所以那時候我們沒有想到說類似像這種大巨蛋測試賽這樣可是我的意思是說沒有規範到齁\n那我們那時候好像是那是改採行政措施去處理嗎對 因為他就會被取消資格就是我查到他也可以檢舉檢舉他就會取消他的入場資格啊對對對對這一些方式用行政方法去做可是這樣子的話我們就會反下來看這樣好像懲罰消費者而不是懲罰賣的人你懂我意思嗎就是說我拿到這張票然後我要進場我被取消因為我是消費端因為我還是要跟大家說最好就是不要買黃牛票\n所以買了黃牛票就會有各種風險跟代價對當然當然可是這個賣人更可惡啦人家講是這樣所以我的意思說是不是要當然您說要弄個專法這我贊成可是在專法還沒有這個出來之前是不是要還是要對於這個在文創法裡面這個對於零元票券的情形是不是要有一些這個防範跟作為我們來看\n謝謝委員﹗謝謝署長﹗謝謝召委\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.307 --> 00:07.048\n王次長、鄭署長\n\n00:17.677 --> 00:19.398\n去年我們陸續修了文創法跟運產條例所以今天特別來跟討論一下就是說去年修文創法跟運產條例的時候通過修法時我記得有幾個附帶決議\n\n00:36.992 --> 00:58.216\n其中一項負債決就是說如果賣方以原價轉售收取手續費或者是寄送費在合理範圍內是不構成加價轉售的那想請問說所謂的合理範圍是否已經明定了這個價格範圍跟所謂的判斷的指引有沒有提供相關的這個資料給相關的單位做參考\n\n01:01.457 --> 01:27.729\n跟委員回覆就價格的本身我們沒有訂定一個固定的一個%數或者是價格主要的原因是因為說在修法時間的期間裡面當時是說我們一開始提案是10%視為合理定價但後來這一點受到很大的反對就認為說那就等於承認黃牛有10%的空間所以把這個%數就拿移除那我們現在的判斷基準就是說這些所謂的合理費用指的就是你是因為要販售這個票券\n\n01:29.110 --> 01:53.572\n的產生的必要費用也就是這個票已經被當成二手票在做販售那如果你需要郵寄或者是需要交通是由第三方來收到這個金額的就是不是你自己收其實是因為必要性的花費它就會屬於合理的範圍目前的所以這個合理範圍還是用文字去輸出就是沒有辦法對它比較沒有辦法有一個可是這樣的基因有沒有給各地方政府地方政府的我們都在都有說明會也會有韓式\n\n01:55.954 --> 02:21.164\n好那想請教就是說剛剛柯貞昭委有提到就是檢舉黃牛專區的問題喔真的說真的基本的網頁喔我們民眾基本上一定會從Google去搜尋那如果你Google搜尋檢舉黃牛專區喔出現的一定是文化部先設立的這個藝文票券黃牛那個票的這個檢舉專區那做得很完整\n\n02:21.624 --> 02:39.893\n我覺得民眾一看就是一目了然點哪裡就可以查詢什麼可是我們反過來看運動票券的檢舉專區搜尋結果就不是第一個還要往下滑再間接滑到從動資券相關的網頁裡面再去找找檢舉專區而且網路的用戶體驗都不是那麼好\n\n02:45.296 --> 03:09.714\n那雖然有檢舉跟這個查詢的進度的按鈕可是真的沒有藝文票卷那樣的清楚明瞭所以剛剛柯昭偉也有指點你那我是想具體請教您說要優化那你優化跟改善的這個進程何時包委員我想這個部分應該要在6月底之前應該可以完全改善\n\n03:10.720 --> 03:34.451\n6月底前好那就期待6月底前有跟文化部一樣的這個明瞭易懂的這個頁面進去好那本席認為就是說打擊黃牛我們應該要跨部會來共同執行剛剛柯昭偉也有提到說其實我們既然藝文票券跟運動票券都有檢舉的專區那我們是不是可以進步思考把兩個統合在一起\n\n03:35.291 --> 03:35.611\n主要是因為我們兩個部會所\n\n04:03.788 --> 04:29.980\n針對的票券的形式不同法源依據也不同所以整合在一個專區恐怕會有一些混亂跟質疑那它運動票券為什麼不是用一文票券的標準或者一文票券為什麼會不用運動票券標準我覺得是恐怕在民眾的適用上會有一些疑慮但是我覺得可以做的事情比較是其實現在委員們也都在談就是說這個部分可不可以有一個整合性的專法型的規範來規範黃牛\n\n04:31.621 --> 04:55.089\n其實黃牛除了藝文跟運動就是說不要分別放在兩個法裡面因為現在以這樣的方式來說遲早都會出現部會在審查尤其執行單位都是在地方政府會出現那個執法跟判準上的落差那這個也是我們現在最警覺在防範的但是我覺得就根本之道來說也許我們更可願意支持一個專法的誕生的這些做一個總和\n\n04:57.330 --> 05:26.232\n好OK我也很支持用專法來處理好那再來本席想要討論零元票券的問題軍營體我們在審查這個運動產業發展條例的時候關於黃牛票的相關法則我就有特別提醒就是說有不肖人士用零元的票券拿來炒作然後我們就就是說我們那時候就有討論說怎麼樣去懲處跟防治的問題那當時我舉的例子是大巨蛋那時候測試賽\n\n05:27.913 --> 05:30.275\n那時候就是開放1.3萬張票來索取可是那時候就有很多被搶空然後黃牛拿來轉賣炒到一張四五千塊那時候媒體爆得很大那像大巨蛋這樣的測試賽這麼龐大的0元票券\n\n05:46.705 --> 06:12.365\n當然我覺得這是千年一遇的狀況不長可是我覺得我們也要有制定一定的法規來不容黃牛從中來干預所以我們如果來看到現在的包括我們文化賽事也一樣文化票券也一樣當然文化票券我有請教文化部文化部是說零元票券狀況你們比較\n\n06:14.864 --> 06:42.673\n你們比較難啊就是說你們通常是付費的觀賞比較為主所以這個所謂的這個林宜瑾票券的罰則跟防範的這個做法你們這部分好像沒有回答是說就基本上就是比較不思考這個問題沒有沒有跟委員說明兩個部分因為我們在藝文票券林宜瑾有兩種狀況第一種它是公關票那公關票的部分我們會依據它的區位認定票價所以它一樣是可以以文創法11條來進行裁罰的\n\n06:44.113 --> 06:44.773\n主席主席主席\n\n07:12.619 --> 07:40.540\n表演活動的演出比較少用零元的方式然後我們主要保護的其實也是這個這些議員票券交易的這個市場秩序所以差異是在這裡是啦我覺得因為當初我們就是我們有用所謂的這個因為我們零元票券通常是公關票嘛所以那時候我們沒有想到說類似像這種大巨蛋測試賽這樣可是我的意思是說沒有規範到齁\n\n07:41.681 --> 07:52.966\n那我們那時候好像是那是改採行政措施去處理嗎對因為他就會被取消資格就是我查到他也可以檢舉檢舉他就會取消他的入場資格啊對對對對這一些方式用行政方法去做可是這樣子的話我們就會反下來看這樣好像懲罰消費者而不是懲罰賣的人你懂我意思嗎就是說我拿到這張票然後我要進場我被取消因為我是消費端因為我還是要跟大家說最好就是不要買黃牛票\n\n08:12.202 --> 08:38.084\n所以買了黃牛票就會有各種風險跟代價對當然當然可是這個賣人更可惡啦人家講是這樣所以我的意思說是不是要當然您說要弄個專法這我贊成可是在專法還沒有這個出來之前是不是要還是要對於這個在文創法裡面這個對於零元票券的情形是不是要有一些這個防範跟作為我們來看\n\n08:39.565 --> 08:40.005\n謝謝委員﹗謝謝署長﹗謝謝召委\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.307,"end":7.048,"text":"王次長、鄭署長"},{"start":17.677,"end":19.398,"text":"去年我們陸續修了文創法跟運產條例所以今天特別來跟討論一下就是說去年修文創法跟運產條例的時候通過修法時我記得有幾個附帶決議"},{"start":36.992,"end":58.216,"text":"其中一項負債決就是說如果賣方以原價轉售收取手續費或者是寄送費在合理範圍內是不構成加價轉售的那想請問說所謂的合理範圍是否已經明定了這個價格範圍跟所謂的判斷的指引有沒有提供相關的這個資料給相關的單位做參考"},{"start":61.457,"end":87.729,"text":"跟委員回覆就價格的本身我們沒有訂定一個固定的一個%數或者是價格主要的原因是因為說在修法時間的期間裡面當時是說我們一開始提案是10%視為合理定價但後來這一點受到很大的反對就認為說那就等於承認黃牛有10%的空間所以把這個%數就拿移除那我們現在的判斷基準就是說這些所謂的合理費用指的就是你是因為要販售這個票券"},{"start":89.11,"end":113.572,"text":"的產生的必要費用也就是這個票已經被當成二手票在做販售那如果你需要郵寄或者是需要交通是由第三方來收到這個金額的就是不是你自己收其實是因為必要性的花費它就會屬於合理的範圍目前的所以這個合理範圍還是用文字去輸出就是沒有辦法對它比較沒有辦法有一個可是這樣的基因有沒有給各地方政府地方政府的我們都在都有說明會也會有韓式"},{"start":115.954,"end":141.164,"text":"好那想請教就是說剛剛柯貞昭委有提到就是檢舉黃牛專區的問題喔真的說真的基本的網頁喔我們民眾基本上一定會從Google去搜尋那如果你Google搜尋檢舉黃牛專區喔出現的一定是文化部先設立的這個藝文票券黃牛那個票的這個檢舉專區那做得很完整"},{"start":141.624,"end":159.893,"text":"我覺得民眾一看就是一目了然點哪裡就可以查詢什麼可是我們反過來看運動票券的檢舉專區搜尋結果就不是第一個還要往下滑再間接滑到從動資券相關的網頁裡面再去找找檢舉專區而且網路的用戶體驗都不是那麼好"},{"start":165.296,"end":189.714,"text":"那雖然有檢舉跟這個查詢的進度的按鈕可是真的沒有藝文票卷那樣的清楚明瞭所以剛剛柯昭偉也有指點你那我是想具體請教您說要優化那你優化跟改善的這個進程何時包委員我想這個部分應該要在6月底之前應該可以完全改善"},{"start":190.72,"end":214.451,"text":"6月底前好那就期待6月底前有跟文化部一樣的這個明瞭易懂的這個頁面進去好那本席認為就是說打擊黃牛我們應該要跨部會來共同執行剛剛柯昭偉也有提到說其實我們既然藝文票券跟運動票券都有檢舉的專區那我們是不是可以進步思考把兩個統合在一起"},{"start":215.291,"end":215.611,"text":"主要是因為我們兩個部會所"},{"start":243.788,"end":269.98,"text":"針對的票券的形式不同法源依據也不同所以整合在一個專區恐怕會有一些混亂跟質疑那它運動票券為什麼不是用一文票券的標準或者一文票券為什麼會不用運動票券標準我覺得是恐怕在民眾的適用上會有一些疑慮但是我覺得可以做的事情比較是其實現在委員們也都在談就是說這個部分可不可以有一個整合性的專法型的規範來規範黃牛"},{"start":271.621,"end":295.089,"text":"其實黃牛除了藝文跟運動就是說不要分別放在兩個法裡面因為現在以這樣的方式來說遲早都會出現部會在審查尤其執行單位都是在地方政府會出現那個執法跟判準上的落差那這個也是我們現在最警覺在防範的但是我覺得就根本之道來說也許我們更可願意支持一個專法的誕生的這些做一個總和"},{"start":297.33,"end":326.232,"text":"好 OK我也很支持用專法來處理好那再來本席想要討論零元票券的問題軍營體我們在審查這個運動產業發展條例的時候關於黃牛票的相關法則我就有特別提醒就是說有不肖人士用零元的票券拿來炒作然後我們就就是說我們那時候就有討論說怎麼樣去懲處跟防治的問題那當時我舉的例子是大巨蛋那時候測試賽"},{"start":327.913,"end":330.275,"text":"那時候就是開放1.3萬張票來索取可是那時候就有很多被搶空然後黃牛拿來轉賣炒到一張四五千塊那時候媒體爆得很大那像大巨蛋這樣的測試賽這麼龐大的0元票券"},{"start":346.705,"end":372.365,"text":"當然我覺得這是千年一遇的狀況不長可是我覺得我們也要有制定一定的法規來不容黃牛從中來干預所以我們如果來看到現在的包括我們文化賽事也一樣文化票券也一樣當然文化票券我有請教文化部文化部是說零元票券狀況你們比較"},{"start":374.864,"end":402.673,"text":"你們比較難啊就是說你們通常是付費的觀賞比較為主所以這個所謂的這個林宜瑾票券的罰則跟防範的這個做法你們這部分好像沒有回答是說就基本上就是比較不思考這個問題沒有沒有跟委員說明兩個部分因為我們在藝文票券林宜瑾有兩種狀況第一種它是公關票那公關票的部分我們會依據它的區位認定票價所以它一樣是可以以文創法11條來進行裁罰的"},{"start":404.113,"end":404.773,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":432.619,"end":460.54,"text":"表演活動的演出比較少用零元的方式然後我們主要保護的其實也是這個這些議員票券交易的這個市場秩序所以差異是在這裡是啦我覺得因為當初我們就是我們有用所謂的這個因為我們零元票券通常是公關票嘛所以那時候我們沒有想到說類似像這種大巨蛋測試賽這樣可是我的意思是說沒有規範到齁"},{"start":461.681,"end":472.966,"text":"那我們那時候好像是那是改採行政措施去處理嗎對 因為他就會被取消資格就是我查到他也可以檢舉檢舉他就會取消他的入場資格啊對對對對這一些方式用行政方法去做可是這樣子的話我們就會反下來看這樣好像懲罰消費者而不是懲罰賣的人你懂我意思嗎就是說我拿到這張票然後我要進場我被取消因為我是消費端因為我還是要跟大家說最好就是不要買黃牛票"},{"start":492.202,"end":518.084,"text":"所以買了黃牛票就會有各種風險跟代價對當然當然可是這個賣人更可惡啦人家講是這樣所以我的意思說是不是要當然您說要弄個專法這我贊成可是在專法還沒有這個出來之前是不是要還是要對於這個在文創法裡面這個對於零元票券的情形是不是要有一些這個防範跟作為我們來看"},{"start":519.565,"end":520.005,"text":"謝謝委員﹗謝謝署長﹗謝謝召委"}]}}}}