{"id":151855,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151855","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e90f54132b1096e61dfa7131bf5b6596055d9f022d149edd34e2527b10508eee7640df9354259b2b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王育敏","委員發言時間":"11:01:32 - 11:08:22","影片長度":"00:06:50","會議時間":"2024-04-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查\n一、委員黃捷等20人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十六條、第三十九條及第五十一條條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員林岱樺等20人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第八條、第三十九條及第四十七條條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第二條、第三十九條及第四十四條條文修正草案」案。\n四、委員蘇清泉等24人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十八條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n六、委員葛如鈞等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條及第四十四條條文修正草案」案。\n七、委員徐巧芯等24人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n八、委員陳冠廷等18人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n九、委員黃健豪等17人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n十、委員林宜瑾等26人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例增訂第三十九條之一條文草案」案。\n十一、委員李坤城等22人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n十二、委員沈伯洋等19人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n十三、委員廖偉翔等17人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n十四、委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條及第四十四條條文修正草案」案。\n十五、委員廖偉翔等17人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例增訂第四十一條之一條文草案」案。\n十六、委員王育敏等19人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n十七、委員黃建賓等18人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條及第五十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十八、委員許宇甄等26人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第二條及第三十八條條文修正草案」案。\n十九、委員王世堅等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十、委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十一、委員王美惠等18人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n二十二、國民黨黨團擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十三、委員王鴻薇等25人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十四、委員萬美玲等20人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第四十四條、第五十一條及第五十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n二十五、委員賴士葆等22人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」案...等36案。\n【以上議案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n【4月29日及5月1日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-04-29","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[26,36],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-26,36-1"},"duration":410,"end_time":"2024-04-29T11:08:22+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-29T11:01:32+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":899,"blocks":[["王委員育敏：（11時1分）謝謝主席。我們是不是有請薛部長。"],["主席：薛部長。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好！"],["王委員育敏：部長好！部長，我還是要先請教你食安的問題，我上個禮拜有追寶林案，現在已經增加到4人死亡……"],["薛部長瑞元：對，4人死亡。"],["王委員育敏：但是到目前為止，我看剛剛你回答媒體的是法務部並沒有主動跟你報告現在案件的最新進度，也就是從本席上個禮拜詢問到現在，你們兩個部會之間沒有最新的訊息。"],["薛部長瑞元：這個並不是部會，因為檢察官是獨立在做偵查的工作……"],["王委員育敏：那他的進度都沒有人可以掌握嗎？到目前偵辦到什麼進度，連部長都不能掌握？","法務部的代表，這個已經是4個人死亡，這個是在食安事件上面非常重大的事件，現在偵辦的進度都沒有給外界一個合理的報告及說明，我覺得這個也不符合比例原則吧！目前到底偵辦到哪裡？要結案了嗎？一個多月過去了。"],["汪參事南均：跟委員報告，目前我們的資料是臺北地檢、新北地檢、士林地檢署都有案件在偵辦中，檢察官有保全了相關的證據，相關的被告也有詢問了，部分也有一些強制處分的作為，但是這個部分因為我們得尊重檢察官的偵辦……"],["王委員育敏：瞭解，外界大家想要知道的是到底是什麼原因造成的？這麼重大的食安事件到底是什麼原因造成的？結果查了半天，一個多月過去了，沒有人知道耶！真的會變無頭公案，我覺得這個其實會很荒謬！就是我們用這麼大的力氣，大家這麼關注，結果到目前為止沒有辦法給外界一個交代，已經4個人死亡，這麼重大的事件，查不出來嗎？遇到什麼困難？"],["汪參事南均：應該檢察官目前有掌握，如果衛生單位有相關採檢項目，要看他們的檢驗狀況，可能檢察官有掌握，但是我們這裡就沒有辦法去探詢。"],["王委員育敏：我上個禮拜就問，類似這麼重大的事件，政府機關沒有人可以知道最新的進度，也沒有辦法適時地一個階段對外去說明，我覺得這個是完全不對的！這是食安事件，這不是涉及到個人的犯罪問題，什麼偵查不公開，而是大家想要知道，對於源頭，你問了廚師、問了什麼，檢驗所有的東西，到底現在最新掌握到的是什麼？可能的方向是什麼？結果都沒有答案，到目前為止都沒有答案，我覺得這個是不對的！我希望這個部分法務部回去要好好檢討。","另外一個是食安事件一爆再爆，170公斤的黑胡椒細粉，業者主動送驗，又驗出有蘇丹色素3號、4號，到底漏網之魚從哪裡來的？我們邊境不是百分之百都已經擋下來了嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：對，因為要往前推算，它的效期應該有3年，現在自主送驗的這一個，我們已經去追它的上游廠商，上游廠商的資料顯示，這一批進來的時間應該是在我們全面百分之百檢驗之前就已經進來……"],["王委員育敏：更之前……"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["王委員育敏：那它怎麼會這個時候才想到要送驗？"],["薛部長瑞元：這個廠商可能是因為有這樣子的一些訊息，所以它自己也希望……"],["王委員育敏：但是我記得你們食藥署有說你們有往前推估啊！"],["薛部長瑞元：對，我們有往前推3年……"],["王委員育敏：是啊！"],["薛部長瑞元：但是那3年主要是對於辣椒粉，這個又是另外一個……"],["王委員育敏：所以黑胡椒細粉是不在你們往……"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有往前推3年……"],["王委員育敏：那會不會還有別的……"],["薛部長瑞元：後來我們有，後來我們是連這個黑胡椒……"],["王委員育敏：黑胡椒細粉都有。"],["薛部長瑞元：對，都有……"],["王委員育敏：那你們推到什麼時候？有沒有在你們原本要去檢驗的時間範圍之內？"],["薛部長瑞元：有。"],["王委員育敏：這一家有沒有？"],["薛部長瑞元：這一家我們還在查……"],["王委員育敏：還在瞭解。"],["薛部長瑞元：因為它東西都已經賣完了，那個上游的廠商、進口的廠商東西已經賣完了。"],["王委員育敏：對，如果這一家驗出來的真的是有蘇丹色素的話，我高度懷疑這個蘇丹紅污染的就不是只有胡椒粉，黑胡椒粉其實也都有添加，如果是黑胡椒粉也有添加的話，它的範圍擴大可能還有更多，那你應該要通知其他有進口黑胡椒細粉的，表示還有更多，不是只有這一家，看起來那就是一個都會添加的樣態。"],["薛部長瑞元：跟委員報告，這個目前我們也在複驗當中，因為它送驗的那個機構出來的檢驗值是在……"],["王委員育敏：偏低嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：對，就是在檢驗極限的附近……"],["王委員育敏：是。"],["薛部長瑞元：所以我們必須要再複驗；第二個比較奇怪的是它有蘇丹3號，也有蘇丹4號……"],["王委員育敏：同時兩個色號。"],["薛部長瑞元：對，這也非常……"],["王委員育敏：那你們什麼時候可以儘快查出來？"],["薛部長瑞元：我們看看這個禮拜能不能就驗出來，驗出來之後的話，事情就會比較清楚，但是那些預防性的下架我們都已經在做了。"],["王委員育敏：好，因為你們之前已經對外宣告正式結案，蘇丹紅市面上不會再找到，結果現在又來一次，而且還170公斤。部長，我希望在你卸任之前，食安所有的漏洞，在查驗的過程、檢驗的方法，你應該要全力地把這個洞補好，好不好？"],["薛部長瑞元：好。"],["王委員育敏：這個其實是非常重大的。","最後我講一點，今天所有法案的處理，我們希望是儘快，但是也希望修法之後，真的可以彌補現行的這些漏洞及不足。我覺得現行最重要的就是主動與即時，這兩個一定要做到，主動就是上次部長講的，你說你現在的行政權限沒有辦法主動去巡查，所以我們也會有修正動議，就賦予主管機關有這樣的主動權，主動去巡查的權力；另外一個就是即時下架，過去是這樣子很緩慢地一層又一層，我希望透過這次的修法，我們一旦主動發現或者是接受檢舉，都可以在最快的時間即時下架，這個才是對於受害者最大的保護，我希望這兩點在這次修法裡面都可以做到，也希望衛福部全力來配合這次的修法，好不好？"],["薛部長瑞元：好。"],["王委員育敏：好，謝謝。"],["薛部長瑞元：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王委員。","在邱鎮軍委員質詢完後，休息5分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":356,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-26,36-1","speakers":["王育敏","黃捷","蘇清泉","郭昱晴","葛如鈞","陳冠廷","李坤城","許宇甄","沈伯洋","王世堅","陳菁徽","王美惠","王鴻薇","張雅琳","何欣純","范雲","林思銘","林月琴","陳昭姿","廖偉翔","劉建國","黃國昌","林淑芬","陳俊宇","王正旭","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","張嘉郡","楊瓊瓔","陳瑩","鍾佳濱","吳思瑤","陳亭妃","林宜瑾","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","李彥秀","蔡易餘","莊瑞雄","楊曜","盧縣一","涂權吉","羅智強","黃仁","沈發惠","羅廷瑋"],"page_start":131,"meetingDate":["2024-04-29"],"gazette_id":"1133701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員黃捷等20人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十六條、第三十九條及第五十一\n條條文修正草案」案；二、委員林岱樺等20人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第八條、第三十\n九條及第四十七條條文修正草案」案；三、委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例\n第二條、第三十九條及第四十四條條文修正草案」案；四、委員蘇清泉等24人擬具「兒童及少年\n性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」案；五、委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削\n防制條例第三十八條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案；六、委員葛如鈞等16人擬具「兒童及少年\n性剝削防制條例第三十九條及第四十四條條文修正草案」案；七、委員徐巧芯等24人擬具「兒童\n及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；八、委員陳冠廷等18人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削\n防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；九、委員黃健豪等17人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分\n條文修正草案」案；十、委員林宜瑾等26人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例增訂第三十九條之\n一條文草案」案；十一、委員李坤城等 22 人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草\n案」案；十二、委員沈伯洋等19人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」\n案；十三、委員廖偉翔等17人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十條條文修正草案」案；十\n四、委員廖偉翔等 18 人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條及第四十四條條文修正草\n案」案；十五、委員廖偉翔等17人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例增訂第四十一條之一條文草\n案」案；十六、委員王育敏等19人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；十\n七、委員黃建賓等 18 人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條及第五十一條條文修正草\n案」案；十八、委員許宇甄等26人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第二條及第三十八條條文修\n正草案」案；十九、委員王世堅等 16 人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」\n案；二十、委員陳菁徽等 16 人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；二十\n一、委員王美惠等 18 人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」案；二十\n二、國民黨黨團擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；二十三、委員王鴻薇\n等21人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；二十四、委員萬美玲等20人擬\n具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第四十四條、第五十一條及第五十三條之一條文修正草案」案；\n二十五、委員賴士葆等22人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」案；二\n十六、委員鍾佳濱等19人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；二十七、委\n員何欣純等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條及第五十一條條文修正草案」案；\n二十八、委員劉建國等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；二十九、\n委員柯志恩等19人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；三十、委員陳素月\n等18人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；三十一、委員范雲等17人擬具\n「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；三十二、委員林俊憲等21人擬具「兒童及\n少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；三十三、委員林思銘等24人擬具「兒童及少年性剝\n削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；三十四、委員張雅琳等25人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條\n例部分條文修正草案」案；三十五、委員陳培瑜等19人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條\n文修正草案」案；三十六、委員林月琴等21人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草\n案」案","agenda_id":"1133701_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"151855","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151855","tool":"pyannote","id":"151855-pyannote"},"job_id":"Fvafgs68i9MUHwTp","queued_at":"2024-05-31 16:01:41","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 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{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 405.77, \"end\": 405.85, \"score\": 0.756}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 405.85, \"end\": 405.87, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 405.87, \"end\": 406.492, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 406.492, \"end\": 406.512, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,547 --> 00:00:06,989\n謝謝主席我們是有請薛部長\n\n2\n00:00:13,993 --> 00:00:33,829\n部長好,部長我還是要先請教你死案的問題我上個禮拜有追保齡案現在已經增加到四人死亡但是到目前為止我看剛剛你回答媒體的是說法務部並沒有主動跟你報告現在案件的最新進度也就是從本席上個禮拜詢問到現在你們兩個部會\n\n3\n00:00:37,012 --> 00:00:52,249\n爾之間沒有最新的訊息?這並不是部會啦,就是說因為檢察官他是獨立在做這個偵查的。那他進度都沒有人可以掌握嗎?到目前偵辦到什麼進度連部長都不能掌握?那個法務部的代表來。\n\n4\n00:00:54,891 --> 00:01:11,327\n這個已經是四個人死亡,這個是在食安事件上面非常重大的事件,那現在偵辦的進度都沒有給外界一個合理的報告跟說明,我覺得這個也不符合比例原則吧。目前到底偵辦到哪裡?要結案了嗎?一個多月過去了。\n\n5\n00:01:13,598 --> 00:01:37,081\n跟委員報告目前我們的資料是臺北地檢、新北地檢、士林地檢署都有案件在偵辦中那檢察官有保全了相關的證據相關的被告也有詢問了部分也有一些強制處分的作為但是這個部分因為我們得尊重假官的偵辦瞭解大家外界想要知道就是說到底是什麼原因造成的\n\n6\n00:01:38,615 --> 00:01:56,823\n這這麼重大的實案事件,到底是什麼原因造成的?結果查了半天一個多月過去了,沒有人知道耶。真的會變無頭公案,我覺得這個其實會很荒謬,就是我們用這麼大的力氣,大家這麼關注,結果到目前為止沒有辦法給外界一個交代。已經四個人死亡,這麼重大的事件。\n\n7\n00:01:57,363 --> 00:01:58,124\n我希望這件事情你們應該我上個禮拜就問齁\n\n8\n00:02:15,945 --> 00:02:41,177\n像類似這麼重大的事件,然後政府機關沒有人可以知道最新的進度,也沒有辦法事實的一個階段對外去說明,我覺得這個是完全不對的。這是食安事件,這不是涉及到個人的犯罪問題,什麼偵查不公開,而是大家想要知道說你到底對於源頭,你問了廚師,問了什麼檢驗所有的東西,到底現在最新掌握到的是什麼,可能的方向是什麼,結果都沒有答案。\n\n9\n00:02:41,857 --> 00:03:04,477\n到目前為止,都沒有答案。我覺得這個是不對的。另外,我希望這個法務部回去要好好檢討。另外一個是,這個食安一爆再爆,一百七十公斤的黑胡椒細粉,業者主動送驗,又喊,又驗出有蘇丹色素三號、四號。這個到底漏網之旅從哪裡來的?我們邊境不是百分之百都已經擋下來了嗎?\n\n10\n00:03:05,565 --> 00:03:33,700\n因為它的效期去往前推算,它的效期應該有三年。現在自主送驗的這一個,我們已經去追它的上游,上游廠商。上游廠商他們的資料顯示就是說這一批進來的時間應該是在我們全面的百分之百檢驗之前就已經進來。更之前,那他怎麼這個時候才想到送驗?\n\n11\n00:03:34,580 --> 00:03:42,787\n議員林岱樺等20人擬具:「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第八條、第三十九條及第五十一條條文修正草案案。議員林岱樺等20人擬具:「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第八條、第三十九條及第五十一條條文修正草案案。\n\n12\n00:04:01,863 --> 00:04:14,872\n黑胡椒細粉都有,那你們推到什麼時候?有沒有在你們原本要去檢驗的時間範圍之內?有。他這一家有沒有?這一家我們還在查,因為他東西都已經賣完了。\n\n13\n00:04:18,474 --> 00:04:44,120\n那個上游的廠商啦,進口的廠商。對,如果這一家驗出來的真的是有蘇丹色素的話,那我高度懷疑這個蘇丹紅它污染的就不是只有胡椒粉嘛,黑胡椒粉就是它其實也都有添加,那如果是黑胡椒粉也有添加的話,它的範圍擴大可能還有更多。那你應該要通知其他的有進口黑胡椒細粉的啊,表示還有更多。\n\n14\n00:04:45,601 --> 00:04:59,652\n不是只有這一家喔,看起來那個就是一個都會添加的一個樣板。這個跟委員報告,這個目前我們也在復驗當中,因為他送驗的那個機構出來的檢驗紙是在那個偏低嗎?\n\n15\n00:05:01,074 --> 00:05:24,692\n對,就是在檢驗極限的那附近,所以我們必須要再復檢。第二個比較奇怪的是,它有蘇丹三號也有蘇丹四號。同時兩個色號?對,這也非常…那你們什麼時候可以盡快查出來?我們應該看看這個禮拜能不能就把它驗出來,驗出來之後的話就事情會比較清楚,但是那些預防性的下架我們都已經在做了。\n\n16\n00:05:24,952 --> 00:05:48,058\n好,這個因為你們之前已經對外宣告說已經正式結案,然後蘇丹紅市面上不會再找到,結果現在又來一次,而且還有170公斤,我覺得這個食安漏洞,這個部長希望在你卸任之前,這個所有的漏洞在查驗的過程、檢驗的方法,你應該要全力的把這個洞補好,好不好?\n\n17\n00:05:48,858 --> 00:06:13,110\n這個其實是非常重大的最後我講一點今天所有法案的處理我們希望是盡快但是也希望說這個修法之後真的可以彌補現行的這些漏洞跟不足那我覺得現行最重要的就是一個主動跟及時這兩個一定要做到那主動就是上次這個部長講的你說你現在的行政權限沒有辦法主動去巡查\n\n18\n00:06:13,590 --> 00:06:39,333\n所以呢這個我們也會有修正動議就賦予主管機關有這樣的主動權主動去巡查的權利另外一個就是即時下架過去是這樣子很緩慢的一層又一層那我希望透過這一次的修法我們就是只要有一旦主動發現或者是接受檢舉都可以在最快的時間即時下架這個才是對於受害者最大的一個保護\n\n19\n00:06:39,913 --> 00:06:46,512\n我希望這兩點在這次修法裡面都可以做到那希望衛福部全力來配合這次的修法好不好好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5547\t6989\t謝謝主席 我們是有請薛部長\n13993\t33829\t部長好,部長我還是要先請教你死案的問題我上個禮拜有追保齡案現在已經增加到四人死亡但是到目前為止我看剛剛你回答媒體的是說法務部並沒有主動跟你報告現在案件的最新進度也就是從本席上個禮拜詢問到現在你們兩個部會\n37012\t52249\t爾之間沒有最新的訊息?這並不是部會啦,就是說因為檢察官他是獨立在做這個偵查的。那他進度都沒有人可以掌握嗎?到目前偵辦到什麼進度連部長都不能掌握?那個法務部的代表來。\n54891\t71327\t這個已經是四個人死亡,這個是在食安事件上面非常重大的事件,那現在偵辦的進度都沒有給外界一個合理的報告跟說明,我覺得這個也不符合比例原則吧。目前到底偵辦到哪裡?要結案了嗎?一個多月過去了。\n73598\t97081\t跟委員報告目前我們的資料是臺北地檢、新北地檢、士林地檢署都有案件在偵辦中那檢察官有保全了相關的證據相關的被告也有詢問了部分也有一些強制處分的作為但是這個部分因為我們得尊重假官的偵辦瞭解大家外界想要知道就是說到底是什麼原因造成的\n98615\t116823\t這這麼重大的實案事件,到底是什麼原因造成的?結果查了半天一個多月過去了,沒有人知道耶。真的會變無頭公案,我覺得這個其實會很荒謬,就是我們用這麼大的力氣,大家這麼關注,結果到目前為止沒有辦法給外界一個交代。已經四個人死亡,這麼重大的事件。\n117363\t118124\t我希望這件事情你們應該我上個禮拜就問齁\n135945\t161177\t像類似這麼重大的事件,然後政府機關沒有人可以知道最新的進度,也沒有辦法事實的一個階段對外去說明,我覺得這個是完全不對的。這是食安事件,這不是涉及到個人的犯罪問題,什麼偵查不公開,而是大家想要知道說你到底對於源頭,你問了廚師,問了什麼檢驗所有的東西,到底現在最新掌握到的是什麼,可能的方向是什麼,結果都沒有答案。\n161857\t184477\t到目前為止,都沒有答案。我覺得這個是不對的。另外,我希望這個法務部回去要好好檢討。另外一個是,這個食安一爆再爆,一百七十公斤的黑胡椒細粉,業者主動送驗,又喊,又驗出有蘇丹色素三號、四號。這個到底漏網之旅從哪裡來的?我們邊境不是百分之百都已經擋下來了嗎?\n185565\t213700\t因為它的效期去往前推算,它的效期應該有三年。現在自主送驗的這一個,我們已經去追它的上游,上游廠商。上游廠商他們的資料顯示就是說這一批進來的時間應該是在我們全面的百分之百檢驗之前就已經進來。更之前,那他怎麼這個時候才想到送驗?\n214580\t222787\t議員林岱樺等20人擬具:「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第八條、第三十九條及第五十一條條文修正草案案。議員林岱樺等20人擬具:「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第八條、第三十九條及第五十一條條文修正草案案。\n241863\t254872\t黑胡椒細粉都有,那你們推到什麼時候?有沒有在你們原本要去檢驗的時間範圍之內?有。他這一家有沒有?這一家我們還在查,因為他東西都已經賣完了。\n258474\t284120\t那個上游的廠商啦,進口的廠商。對,如果這一家驗出來的真的是有蘇丹色素的話,那我高度懷疑這個蘇丹紅它污染的就不是只有胡椒粉嘛,黑胡椒粉就是它其實也都有添加,那如果是黑胡椒粉也有添加的話,它的範圍擴大可能還有更多。那你應該要通知其他的有進口黑胡椒細粉的啊,表示還有更多。\n285601\t299652\t不是只有這一家喔,看起來那個就是一個都會添加的一個樣板。這個跟委員報告,這個目前我們也在復驗當中,因為他送驗的那個機構出來的檢驗紙是在那個偏低嗎?\n301074\t324692\t對,就是在檢驗極限的那附近,所以我們必須要再復檢。第二個比較奇怪的是,它有蘇丹三號也有蘇丹四號。同時兩個色號?對,這也非常…那你們什麼時候可以盡快查出來?我們應該看看這個禮拜能不能就把它驗出來,驗出來之後的話就事情會比較清楚,但是那些預防性的下架我們都已經在做了。\n324952\t348058\t好,這個因為你們之前已經對外宣告說已經正式結案,然後蘇丹紅市面上不會再找到,結果現在又來一次,而且還有170公斤,我覺得這個食安漏洞,這個部長希望在你卸任之前,這個所有的漏洞在查驗的過程、檢驗的方法,你應該要全力的把這個洞補好,好不好?\n348858\t373110\t這個其實是非常重大的最後我講一點今天所有法案的處理我們希望是盡快但是也希望說這個修法之後真的可以彌補現行的這些漏洞跟不足那我覺得現行最重要的就是一個主動跟及時這兩個一定要做到那主動就是上次這個部長講的你說你現在的行政權限沒有辦法主動去巡查\n373590\t399333\t所以呢這個我們也會有修正動議就賦予主管機關有這樣的主動權主動去巡查的權利另外一個就是即時下架過去是這樣子很緩慢的一層又一層那我希望透過這一次的修法我們就是只要有一旦主動發現或者是接受檢舉都可以在最快的時間即時下架這個才是對於受害者最大的一個保護\n399913\t406512\t我希望這兩點在這次修法裡面都可以做到那希望衛福部全力來配合這次的修法好不好好謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我們是有請薛部長\n部長好,部長我還是要先請教你死案的問題我上個禮拜有追保齡案現在已經增加到四人死亡但是到目前為止我看剛剛你回答媒體的是說法務部並沒有主動跟你報告現在案件的最新進度也就是從本席上個禮拜詢問到現在你們兩個部會\n爾之間沒有最新的訊息?這並不是部會啦,就是說因為檢察官他是獨立在做這個偵查的。那他進度都沒有人可以掌握嗎?到目前偵辦到什麼進度連部長都不能掌握?那個法務部的代表來。\n這個已經是四個人死亡,這個是在食安事件上面非常重大的事件,那現在偵辦的進度都沒有給外界一個合理的報告跟說明,我覺得這個也不符合比例原則吧。目前到底偵辦到哪裡?要結案了嗎?一個多月過去了。\n跟委員報告目前我們的資料是臺北地檢、新北地檢、士林地檢署都有案件在偵辦中那檢察官有保全了相關的證據相關的被告也有詢問了部分也有一些強制處分的作為但是這個部分因為我們得尊重假官的偵辦瞭解大家外界想要知道就是說到底是什麼原因造成的\n這這麼重大的實案事件,到底是什麼原因造成的?結果查了半天一個多月過去了,沒有人知道耶。真的會變無頭公案,我覺得這個其實會很荒謬,就是我們用這麼大的力氣,大家這麼關注,結果到目前為止沒有辦法給外界一個交代。已經四個人死亡,這麼重大的事件。\n我希望這件事情你們應該我上個禮拜就問齁\n像類似這麼重大的事件,然後政府機關沒有人可以知道最新的進度,也沒有辦法事實的一個階段對外去說明,我覺得這個是完全不對的。這是食安事件,這不是涉及到個人的犯罪問題,什麼偵查不公開,而是大家想要知道說你到底對於源頭,你問了廚師,問了什麼檢驗所有的東西,到底現在最新掌握到的是什麼,可能的方向是什麼,結果都沒有答案。\n到目前為止,都沒有答案。我覺得這個是不對的。另外,我希望這個法務部回去要好好檢討。另外一個是,這個食安一爆再爆,一百七十公斤的黑胡椒細粉,業者主動送驗,又喊,又驗出有蘇丹色素三號、四號。這個到底漏網之旅從哪裡來的?我們邊境不是百分之百都已經擋下來了嗎?\n因為它的效期去往前推算,它的效期應該有三年。現在自主送驗的這一個,我們已經去追它的上游,上游廠商。上游廠商他們的資料顯示就是說這一批進來的時間應該是在我們全面的百分之百檢驗之前就已經進來。更之前,那他怎麼這個時候才想到送驗?\n議員林岱樺等20人擬具:「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第八條、第三十九條及第五十一條條文修正草案案。議員林岱樺等20人擬具:「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第八條、第三十九條及第五十一條條文修正草案案。\n黑胡椒細粉都有,那你們推到什麼時候?有沒有在你們原本要去檢驗的時間範圍之內?有。他這一家有沒有?這一家我們還在查,因為他東西都已經賣完了。\n那個上游的廠商啦,進口的廠商。對,如果這一家驗出來的真的是有蘇丹色素的話,那我高度懷疑這個蘇丹紅它污染的就不是只有胡椒粉嘛,黑胡椒粉就是它其實也都有添加,那如果是黑胡椒粉也有添加的話,它的範圍擴大可能還有更多。那你應該要通知其他的有進口黑胡椒細粉的啊,表示還有更多。\n不是只有這一家喔,看起來那個就是一個都會添加的一個樣板。這個跟委員報告,這個目前我們也在復驗當中,因為他送驗的那個機構出來的檢驗紙是在那個偏低嗎?\n對,就是在檢驗極限的那附近,所以我們必須要再復檢。第二個比較奇怪的是,它有蘇丹三號也有蘇丹四號。同時兩個色號?對,這也非常…那你們什麼時候可以盡快查出來?我們應該看看這個禮拜能不能就把它驗出來,驗出來之後的話就事情會比較清楚,但是那些預防性的下架我們都已經在做了。\n好,這個因為你們之前已經對外宣告說已經正式結案,然後蘇丹紅市面上不會再找到,結果現在又來一次,而且還有170公斤,我覺得這個食安漏洞,這個部長希望在你卸任之前,這個所有的漏洞在查驗的過程、檢驗的方法,你應該要全力的把這個洞補好,好不好?\n這個其實是非常重大的最後我講一點今天所有法案的處理我們希望是盡快但是也希望說這個修法之後真的可以彌補現行的這些漏洞跟不足那我覺得現行最重要的就是一個主動跟及時這兩個一定要做到那主動就是上次這個部長講的你說你現在的行政權限沒有辦法主動去巡查\n所以呢這個我們也會有修正動議就賦予主管機關有這樣的主動權主動去巡查的權利另外一個就是即時下架過去是這樣子很緩慢的一層又一層那我希望透過這一次的修法我們就是只要有一旦主動發現或者是接受檢舉都可以在最快的時間即時下架這個才是對於受害者最大的一個保護\n我希望這兩點在這次修法裡面都可以做到那希望衛福部全力來配合這次的修法好不好好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.547 --> 00:06.989\n謝謝主席我們是有請薛部長\n\n00:13.993 --> 00:33.829\n部長好,部長我還是要先請教你死案的問題我上個禮拜有追保齡案現在已經增加到四人死亡但是到目前為止我看剛剛你回答媒體的是說法務部並沒有主動跟你報告現在案件的最新進度也就是從本席上個禮拜詢問到現在你們兩個部會\n\n00:37.012 --> 00:52.249\n爾之間沒有最新的訊息?這並不是部會啦,就是說因為檢察官他是獨立在做這個偵查的。那他進度都沒有人可以掌握嗎?到目前偵辦到什麼進度連部長都不能掌握?那個法務部的代表來。\n\n00:54.891 --> 01:11.327\n這個已經是四個人死亡,這個是在食安事件上面非常重大的事件,那現在偵辦的進度都沒有給外界一個合理的報告跟說明,我覺得這個也不符合比例原則吧。目前到底偵辦到哪裡?要結案了嗎?一個多月過去了。\n\n01:13.598 --> 01:37.081\n跟委員報告目前我們的資料是臺北地檢、新北地檢、士林地檢署都有案件在偵辦中那檢察官有保全了相關的證據相關的被告也有詢問了部分也有一些強制處分的作為但是這個部分因為我們得尊重假官的偵辦瞭解大家外界想要知道就是說到底是什麼原因造成的\n\n01:38.615 --> 01:56.823\n這這麼重大的實案事件,到底是什麼原因造成的?結果查了半天一個多月過去了,沒有人知道耶。真的會變無頭公案,我覺得這個其實會很荒謬,就是我們用這麼大的力氣,大家這麼關注,結果到目前為止沒有辦法給外界一個交代。已經四個人死亡,這麼重大的事件。\n\n01:57.363 --> 01:58.124\n我希望這件事情你們應該我上個禮拜就問齁\n\n02:15.945 --> 02:41.177\n像類似這麼重大的事件,然後政府機關沒有人可以知道最新的進度,也沒有辦法事實的一個階段對外去說明,我覺得這個是完全不對的。這是食安事件,這不是涉及到個人的犯罪問題,什麼偵查不公開,而是大家想要知道說你到底對於源頭,你問了廚師,問了什麼檢驗所有的東西,到底現在最新掌握到的是什麼,可能的方向是什麼,結果都沒有答案。\n\n02:41.857 --> 03:04.477\n到目前為止,都沒有答案。我覺得這個是不對的。另外,我希望這個法務部回去要好好檢討。另外一個是,這個食安一爆再爆,一百七十公斤的黑胡椒細粉,業者主動送驗,又喊,又驗出有蘇丹色素三號、四號。這個到底漏網之旅從哪裡來的?我們邊境不是百分之百都已經擋下來了嗎?\n\n03:05.565 --> 03:33.700\n因為它的效期去往前推算,它的效期應該有三年。現在自主送驗的這一個,我們已經去追它的上游,上游廠商。上游廠商他們的資料顯示就是說這一批進來的時間應該是在我們全面的百分之百檢驗之前就已經進來。更之前,那他怎麼這個時候才想到送驗?\n\n03:34.580 --> 03:42.787\n議員林岱樺等20人擬具:「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第八條、第三十九條及第五十一條條文修正草案案。議員林岱樺等20人擬具:「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第八條、第三十九條及第五十一條條文修正草案案。\n\n04:01.863 --> 04:14.872\n黑胡椒細粉都有,那你們推到什麼時候?有沒有在你們原本要去檢驗的時間範圍之內?有。他這一家有沒有?這一家我們還在查,因為他東西都已經賣完了。\n\n04:18.474 --> 04:44.120\n那個上游的廠商啦,進口的廠商。對,如果這一家驗出來的真的是有蘇丹色素的話,那我高度懷疑這個蘇丹紅它污染的就不是只有胡椒粉嘛,黑胡椒粉就是它其實也都有添加,那如果是黑胡椒粉也有添加的話,它的範圍擴大可能還有更多。那你應該要通知其他的有進口黑胡椒細粉的啊,表示還有更多。\n\n04:45.601 --> 04:59.652\n不是只有這一家喔,看起來那個就是一個都會添加的一個樣板。這個跟委員報告,這個目前我們也在復驗當中,因為他送驗的那個機構出來的檢驗紙是在那個偏低嗎?\n\n05:01.074 --> 05:24.692\n對,就是在檢驗極限的那附近,所以我們必須要再復檢。第二個比較奇怪的是,它有蘇丹三號也有蘇丹四號。同時兩個色號?對,這也非常…那你們什麼時候可以盡快查出來?我們應該看看這個禮拜能不能就把它驗出來,驗出來之後的話就事情會比較清楚,但是那些預防性的下架我們都已經在做了。\n\n05:24.952 --> 05:48.058\n好,這個因為你們之前已經對外宣告說已經正式結案,然後蘇丹紅市面上不會再找到,結果現在又來一次,而且還有170公斤,我覺得這個食安漏洞,這個部長希望在你卸任之前,這個所有的漏洞在查驗的過程、檢驗的方法,你應該要全力的把這個洞補好,好不好?\n\n05:48.858 --> 06:13.110\n這個其實是非常重大的最後我講一點今天所有法案的處理我們希望是盡快但是也希望說這個修法之後真的可以彌補現行的這些漏洞跟不足那我覺得現行最重要的就是一個主動跟及時這兩個一定要做到那主動就是上次這個部長講的你說你現在的行政權限沒有辦法主動去巡查\n\n06:13.590 --> 06:39.333\n所以呢這個我們也會有修正動議就賦予主管機關有這樣的主動權主動去巡查的權利另外一個就是即時下架過去是這樣子很緩慢的一層又一層那我希望透過這一次的修法我們就是只要有一旦主動發現或者是接受檢舉都可以在最快的時間即時下架這個才是對於受害者最大的一個保護\n\n06:39.913 --> 06:46.512\n我希望這兩點在這次修法裡面都可以做到那希望衛福部全力來配合這次的修法好不好好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.547,"end":6.989,"text":"謝謝主席 我們是有請薛部長"},{"start":13.993,"end":33.829,"text":"部長好,部長我還是要先請教你死案的問題我上個禮拜有追保齡案現在已經增加到四人死亡但是到目前為止我看剛剛你回答媒體的是說法務部並沒有主動跟你報告現在案件的最新進度也就是從本席上個禮拜詢問到現在你們兩個部會"},{"start":37.012,"end":52.249,"text":"爾之間沒有最新的訊息?這並不是部會啦,就是說因為檢察官他是獨立在做這個偵查的。那他進度都沒有人可以掌握嗎?到目前偵辦到什麼進度連部長都不能掌握?那個法務部的代表來。"},{"start":54.891,"end":71.327,"text":"這個已經是四個人死亡,這個是在食安事件上面非常重大的事件,那現在偵辦的進度都沒有給外界一個合理的報告跟說明,我覺得這個也不符合比例原則吧。目前到底偵辦到哪裡?要結案了嗎?一個多月過去了。"},{"start":73.598,"end":97.081,"text":"跟委員報告目前我們的資料是臺北地檢、新北地檢、士林地檢署都有案件在偵辦中那檢察官有保全了相關的證據相關的被告也有詢問了部分也有一些強制處分的作為但是這個部分因為我們得尊重假官的偵辦瞭解大家外界想要知道就是說到底是什麼原因造成的"},{"start":98.615,"end":116.823,"text":"這這麼重大的實案事件,到底是什麼原因造成的?結果查了半天一個多月過去了,沒有人知道耶。真的會變無頭公案,我覺得這個其實會很荒謬,就是我們用這麼大的力氣,大家這麼關注,結果到目前為止沒有辦法給外界一個交代。已經四個人死亡,這麼重大的事件。"},{"start":117.363,"end":118.124,"text":"我希望這件事情你們應該我上個禮拜就問齁"},{"start":135.945,"end":161.177,"text":"像類似這麼重大的事件,然後政府機關沒有人可以知道最新的進度,也沒有辦法事實的一個階段對外去說明,我覺得這個是完全不對的。這是食安事件,這不是涉及到個人的犯罪問題,什麼偵查不公開,而是大家想要知道說你到底對於源頭,你問了廚師,問了什麼檢驗所有的東西,到底現在最新掌握到的是什麼,可能的方向是什麼,結果都沒有答案。"},{"start":161.857,"end":184.477,"text":"到目前為止,都沒有答案。我覺得這個是不對的。另外,我希望這個法務部回去要好好檢討。另外一個是,這個食安一爆再爆,一百七十公斤的黑胡椒細粉,業者主動送驗,又喊,又驗出有蘇丹色素三號、四號。這個到底漏網之旅從哪裡來的?我們邊境不是百分之百都已經擋下來了嗎?"},{"start":185.565,"end":213.7,"text":"因為它的效期去往前推算,它的效期應該有三年。現在自主送驗的這一個,我們已經去追它的上游,上游廠商。上游廠商他們的資料顯示就是說這一批進來的時間應該是在我們全面的百分之百檢驗之前就已經進來。更之前,那他怎麼這個時候才想到送驗?"},{"start":214.58,"end":222.787,"text":"議員林岱樺等20人擬具:「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第八條、第三十九條及第五十一條條文修正草案案。議員林岱樺等20人擬具:「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第八條、第三十九條及第五十一條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":241.863,"end":254.872,"text":"黑胡椒細粉都有,那你們推到什麼時候?有沒有在你們原本要去檢驗的時間範圍之內?有。他這一家有沒有?這一家我們還在查,因為他東西都已經賣完了。"},{"start":258.474,"end":284.12,"text":"那個上游的廠商啦,進口的廠商。對,如果這一家驗出來的真的是有蘇丹色素的話,那我高度懷疑這個蘇丹紅它污染的就不是只有胡椒粉嘛,黑胡椒粉就是它其實也都有添加,那如果是黑胡椒粉也有添加的話,它的範圍擴大可能還有更多。那你應該要通知其他的有進口黑胡椒細粉的啊,表示還有更多。"},{"start":285.601,"end":299.652,"text":"不是只有這一家喔,看起來那個就是一個都會添加的一個樣板。這個跟委員報告,這個目前我們也在復驗當中,因為他送驗的那個機構出來的檢驗紙是在那個偏低嗎?"},{"start":301.074,"end":324.692,"text":"對,就是在檢驗極限的那附近,所以我們必須要再復檢。第二個比較奇怪的是,它有蘇丹三號也有蘇丹四號。同時兩個色號?對,這也非常…那你們什麼時候可以盡快查出來?我們應該看看這個禮拜能不能就把它驗出來,驗出來之後的話就事情會比較清楚,但是那些預防性的下架我們都已經在做了。"},{"start":324.952,"end":348.058,"text":"好,這個因為你們之前已經對外宣告說已經正式結案,然後蘇丹紅市面上不會再找到,結果現在又來一次,而且還有170公斤,我覺得這個食安漏洞,這個部長希望在你卸任之前,這個所有的漏洞在查驗的過程、檢驗的方法,你應該要全力的把這個洞補好,好不好?"},{"start":348.858,"end":373.11,"text":"這個其實是非常重大的最後我講一點今天所有法案的處理我們希望是盡快但是也希望說這個修法之後真的可以彌補現行的這些漏洞跟不足那我覺得現行最重要的就是一個主動跟及時這兩個一定要做到那主動就是上次這個部長講的你說你現在的行政權限沒有辦法主動去巡查"},{"start":373.59,"end":399.333,"text":"所以呢這個我們也會有修正動議就賦予主管機關有這樣的主動權主動去巡查的權利另外一個就是即時下架過去是這樣子很緩慢的一層又一層那我希望透過這一次的修法我們就是只要有一旦主動發現或者是接受檢舉都可以在最快的時間即時下架這個才是對於受害者最大的一個保護"},{"start":399.913,"end":406.512,"text":"我希望這兩點在這次修法裡面都可以做到那希望衛福部全力來配合這次的修法好不好好謝謝"}]}}}}