{"id":151856,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151856","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e90f54132b1096e63e5d13ddb02a5150054712d423581dcc34e2527b10508eeed914f1b81d8e60275ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"范雲","委員發言時間":"11:06:26 - 11:15:09","影片長度":"00:08:43","會議時間":"2024-04-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請文化部、教育部、內政部、法務部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部及行政院主計總處列席就「表演及運動賽事黃牛票氾濫，相關單位取締、防範及執法成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢。（4月29日及5月2日二天一次會））","date":"2024-04-29","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-10"},"duration":523,"end_time":"2024-04-29T11:15:09+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-29T11:06:26+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":649,"blocks":[["范委員雲：（11時6分）謝謝召委，有請次長。"],["主席：來，我們請次長。"],["王次長時思：委員好。"],["范委員雲：次長，針對黃牛票的部分，我有想要追問的。去年我們修法之後，其實黃牛防制已經有很大的進步，現在我們討論的都是進入實際執行後的問題。剛剛已經有委員問過，目前你們的黃牛檢舉專區可以看到檢舉要求的資訊非常仔細，包含入場序號和票券編號/流水號，我認為因為它要求到入場序號和票券編號/流水號，檢舉人如果沒有實質買到票，其實就會缺乏資訊。","根據你們提供的資料，總共1,640個檢舉案件當中，形式要件不齊備的案件就超過1,000件。我回頭看一下我們當初的修法，第十條之一第二款規定的是：將藝文表演票券以超過票面金額或定價販售者，按票券張數懲罰。販售者只要有販售行為就完成犯罪對不對？並不需要到購買。可是我發現你們現在要求的檢舉要件是根據你們自己的行政規範──檢舉案件處理及獎勵辦法第三條第二項第三款，要求檢舉人必須敘明座位號碼、入場序號、票券編號等資料，所以好像有點是自己把檢舉的要件訂得太嚴格，不知道次長是不是同意我這個分析？"],["王次長時思：跟委員報告，為什麼一定要有票券號碼或流水號的關鍵是要取得購票者的資料，因為如果沒有這個號碼的話，我們就不會知道是誰購買了這張票，所以它其實有確認票券的意思。如果我們不知道是誰購買了這張票，就沒有辦法從這裡來獲得掃票型黃牛的資訊，如果只要在社群網站上刊登就可以入罪的話，就會變成所有的資料來源就依賴這些網站是否提供，以現在FB和Dcard完全不配合的情況，我們始終都無法取得這些人的個資。"],["范委員雲：好，次長，我知道你的用意是要這個購買的事實成立之後才能夠有明確的販售資料，可是我覺得這裡面有一個矛盾，我們叫人檢舉黃牛，可是檢舉人必須實質上買了黃牛票，等於參與這個犯罪行為才能檢舉，可是回頭看我們當時在立法院討論的時候，文字上就只有「販售」和「張數」，並沒有說要購買行為完成耶！這部分我不知道次長的法律解讀是因為操作面你們需要這樣才能處理，還是操作面我們可以跟數發部或NCC再來合作？這部分是不是可以去研議一下，好嗎？就是我們不用這麼快有定案，只是要瞭解這個部分，好嗎？"],["王次長時思：可以、可以。"],["范委員雲：好，謝謝次長。","另一個部分剛剛其實有委員問過了，金管會也說會跟你們跨部會處理，那我這邊是不是請金管會的代表，今天有嗎？詢問一下，謝謝。金管會今天提供的報告說可以依照稅捐稽徵法第三十條、社救法第幾條，可不可以講一下依照稅捐稽徵法第三十條跟社救法是什麼意思？"],["劉組長萬基：因為現在銀行法的規定是說要調查銀行的金融資料的話，必須以法律明文規定。"],["范委員雲：對。"],["劉組長萬基：所以我們舉的例子只是說這兩個是現在行政機關有在調查的法律的規定，給文化部參考。"],["范委員雲：其實我們就已經有修法規定，我覺得金管會好像消極了一些，這次你們提供的報告既然可以比照稅捐稽徵法第三十條，還有社救法，這部分是不是能夠更積極配合處理一下好嗎？因為我們實質上修過了販售就是一個犯罪行為，而且有法律的條文在。"],["劉組長萬基：目前的法律是還不夠到調查資料的位階，目前的法律。"],["范委員雲：還不夠？如果法律還不夠，那你們協調就可以處理，這是不是有點奇怪？"],["劉組長萬基：不是協調，我們是依法行政，一定是按照法律的規定。"],["范委員雲：對啊！那就是我們的法律夠了，你才有可能協調，所以不是法律不夠的問題，是金管會太消極好嗎？因為你剛剛也沒有跟我說出稅捐稽徵法跟社救法第幾條的詳細內容，顯然你還不夠熟悉，請金管會積極點，因為還有問題要問，請回，謝謝。","次長，剛剛也有委員有問過了，至少根據苗博雅議員的公開質詢，高雄跟臺北市實質上的開罰率差異很大，所以是不是次長針對開罰率的差異這麼大，執行面也給我們委員會一個報告，就是如何改善好嗎？"],["王次長時思：好。"],["范委員雲：我想這個部分就是檢舉的門檻。最後我還想講的是如何落實我們通過的黃牛條款，這部分需要中央跟地方合作。另外，民間團體還反映一件事，就是免費的票券，運產條例跟文創條例我們在修的時候，條文文字的確不一樣，可是我清楚記得當時部長史哲有回答我們，免費票券就是公關券被拿來販售的時候，會依照他所在的座位區域價格來罰款。"],["王次長時思：沒錯。"],["范委員雲：可是因為可能是表格上沒有說明，很多民眾不曉得，以為不能檢舉，是不是可以在檢舉專區加做說明呢？"],["王次長時思：可以。"],["范委員雲：讓大家知道這種公關票拿出來賣，一樣可以檢舉。"],["王次長時思：公關票一樣有加價的問題。"],["范委員雲：好不好？這個可以改一下，就是加註讓大家知道。"],["王次長時思：可以。"],["范委員雲：最後一件事，實名制我也肯定文化部有依照當時大家的期待，有補助要點，而且在施行當中，那現在有個相關的問題，就是實名制的級距式退票方案，看起來還是有改善的空間，因為臺灣的確發生這個事，就是有相關的事件，中國樂團「萬能青年旅店」來臺灣，其實就是使用比較適合實名制的級距式退票方案，可是我們看了一下退票的內容，發現臺灣的規定還是相當地嚴格，就是多少天以前，然後當天的話幾乎拿不到錢等等，民團反映這樣子對消費者的權益沒有辦法保障，那後來我們瞭解，如果參考韓國公平交易委員會的消費者糾紛解決標準的話，他們對退費天數的標準相對寬鬆，扣款趴數也比較嚴格，有給消費者更多的保障，甚至在演出前10天還有全額退費的選項，我想這是韓國公平交易委員會制定出來的解決標準，那你們是在藝文表演券定型化契約裡面的不得記載事項中有明確的規定，是不是可以請次長也參考一下韓國的方案，能不能研議、精進級距式退票的方案，更保護消費者的權益一些呢？"],["王次長時思：跟委員報告，這個我們可以來研議，不過主要是因為在退票方案的4個方案裡面的選擇權是由主辦單位來做決定。第二件事就是在選擇退票方案的時候，他還是有消費者跟業者之間的衡平問題，因為雙方保障一方，另外一方勢必有損失，所以大概是要在這兩者之間取得一定的衡平。"],["范委員雲：對，當然衡平，但是我想韓國可以做到，且韓國的各種天團也是非常知名的全球產業，我想臺灣這部分我們應該不要落後，請你們積極研議一下，然後給本席一個報告好嗎？"],["王次長時思：我們來研議。"],["范委員雲：謝謝次長。"],["王次長時思：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝范委員，謝謝次長。","接下來我們請張雅琳委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":310,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-10","speakers":["柯志恩","萬美玲","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","葛如鈞","葉元之","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","范雲","張雅琳","吳春城","羅廷瑋","黃珊珊","黃捷","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","邱志偉","張啓楷","羅智強","林倩綺","林楚茵","劉建國"],"page_start":243,"meetingDate":["2024-04-29"],"gazette_id":"1133901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133901_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請文化部、教育部、內政部、法務部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部及行政院主計總處列\n席就「表演及運動賽事黃牛票氾濫，相關單位取締、防範及執法成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1133901_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"151856","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151856","tool":"pyannote","id":"151856-pyannote"},"job_id":"IEKmmArHjOfEGnNe","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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53.361, \"text\": \"剛剛已經有委員問過那目前就是這是你們的黃牛檢舉專區可以看到檢舉要求的資訊非常的仔細包含這個入場序號跟票券編號流水號那我認為這個因為他要求到入場序號跟票券編號的這個流水號那這其實會讓就是檢舉人如果沒有實質買到票\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 29.256, \"end\": 29.516, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 29.516, \"end\": 29.636, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 29.636, \"end\": 29.916, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 29.916, \"end\": 30.776, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 30.776, \"end\": 31.076, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 31.076, \"end\": 31.376, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 31.376, \"end\": 31.496, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 31.496, \"end\": 32.417, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 32.417, \"end\": 33.017, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 33.017, \"end\": 33.297, \"score\": 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\"end\": 364.205, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 364.205, \"end\": 364.305, \"score\": 0.764}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 364.305, \"end\": 364.505, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 364.505, \"end\": 364.786, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 364.786, \"end\": 364.946, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 364.946, \"end\": 364.966, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 364.966, \"end\": 365.066, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 365.066, \"end\": 365.106, \"score\": 0.494}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 365.106, \"end\": 365.126, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 392.643, \"end\": 422.063, \"text\": \"肯定文化部有依照當時大家的期待有補助要點而且在施行當中那現在有個相關的問題就是實名制的集聚式退票方案看起來就是還是有改善的空間上次我們因為台灣的確發生這個事就是有相關的事件然後中國樂團萬能青年旅店來台灣那其實就是使用這個比較適合實名制的集聚式退票方案\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"肯\", \"start\": 392.643, \"end\": 392.883, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 392.883, \"end\": 393.063, \"score\": 0.866}, 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501.309, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"雙\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 501.309, \"end\": 501.329, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 503.689, \"end\": 504.089, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 504.089, \"end\": 504.27, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 504.27, \"end\": 504.29, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 504.29, \"end\": 504.51, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 504.51, \"end\": 504.67, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 504.67, \"end\": 504.69, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,163 --> 00:00:07,745\n次長,針對黃牛票的部分,我有想要追問的。我想去年我們修法之後,其實黃牛房子已經有很大的進步,現在我們討論的都是進入實際執行後的問題。\n\n2\n00:00:29,256 --> 00:00:53,361\n剛剛已經有委員問過那目前就是這是你們的黃牛檢舉專區可以看到檢舉要求的資訊非常的仔細包含這個入場序號跟票券編號流水號那我認為這個因為他要求到入場序號跟票券編號的這個流水號那這其實會讓就是檢舉人如果沒有實質買到票\n\n3\n00:00:55,141 --> 00:01:23,193\n其實就會缺乏資訊那我們看一下就是你們提供的資料行事要件不齊備的案件就超過1000件總共有1640件那就有超過1000件那我回來看一下我們當初的修法的就是我們原本的這個第十之一條第二款對定的是教藝文表演票券已超過票面金額或定價販售者按票券章數懲罰碼\n\n4\n00:01:24,814 --> 00:01:36,721\n販售者就只要販售這個行為就完成了犯罪行為並不需要到購買可是我們現在要求的檢舉要件我發現是你們自己的行政規範檢舉案件處理及獎勵辦法的第三項要求檢舉人必須要具備座位號碼、入場序號、票券編號等\n\n5\n00:01:48,547 --> 00:02:15,484\n所以好像有點是自己把這個檢舉的要件訂得太嚴格不知道次長是不是同意我這個分析根文報告為什麼一定要有票券的號碼或流水號的關鍵是要取得購票者的資料因為如果沒有這個號碼的話我們就不會知道是誰購買了這張票所以它其實有確認票券的意思那如果我們不知道是誰購買了這張票那個掃票型的黃牛就沒有辦法從這裡來獲得\n\n6\n00:02:17,085 --> 00:02:17,305\n主席\n\n7\n00:02:35,931 --> 00:03:03,748\n市長我知道你的用意是要這個就是說購買的事實成立之後那才能夠有明確的這個販售的資料可是我覺得這裡有個矛盾我們叫人檢舉黃牛可是檢舉人必須實質上買了黃牛票等於參與這個犯罪行為他才能檢舉那可是回頭看我們當時在這個立法院討論的時候我們的文字上就只有\n\n8\n00:03:04,048 --> 00:03:04,088\n販售．章術\n\n9\n00:03:24,775 --> 00:03:25,615\n請經管會代表今天有嗎?詢問一下\n\n10\n00:03:51,584 --> 00:04:04,782\n今天提供的報告說可以依照稅捐基徵法第30條、涉救法第幾條可不可以講一下依照稅捐基徵法第30條跟涉救法是什麼意思\n\n11\n00:04:06,094 --> 00:04:22,169\n因為現在銀行法規定是說要調查銀行的金融資料的話必須以法律明文規定我們舉的例子只是說這兩個是現在行政機關有在調查的法律的規定給文化部參考\n\n12\n00:04:23,250 --> 00:04:46,400\n其實我們就已經有修法規定了我覺得金管會好像消極了一些那這一次的你們提供的報告既然就可以比照稅捐激增法第30條還有這個受救法這部分是不是能夠更積極配合處理一下好嗎就是因為我們其實實質上修過了這就是犯受這個就是一個犯罪行為而且有法律的條文在\n\n13\n00:04:46,900 --> 00:05:13,776\n目前的法律是還不夠到這個調查資料的位階目前的法律還不夠那如果法律還不夠那你們協調就可以處理不是協調我們是依法行政一定是按照法律的規定那就是我們的法律夠了你才有可能協調嘛所以不是法律不夠的問題是金管會太消極好嗎那因為你剛剛也沒有跟我說出到底是這個稅捐積增法跟涉救法第幾個詳細內容那顯然你還不夠熟悉那請那個金管會積極點因為還有問題要問請回謝謝\n\n14\n00:05:17,418 --> 00:05:38,628\n次長,剛剛有委員有問過了就是現在至少根據苗博雅議員的公開質詢高雄跟台北市就是實質上開罰率差異很大那所以是不是次長針對開罰率差異這麼的大執行面也給我們委員會一個報告就是說如何改善好嗎?好\n\n15\n00:05:39,949 --> 00:06:03,565\n好那我想這個部分就是檢舉的門檻那最後我還想就是如何落實我們通過的黃牛條款這部分需要中央跟地方合作那另外呢民間團體還反映一件事就是免費的票券運產條例跟文創條例我們在修的時候條文文字的確不一樣那可是我清楚記得當時部長史哲有回答我們\n\n16\n00:06:04,005 --> 00:06:05,126\n最後一件事呢實名制我也\n\n17\n00:06:32,643 --> 00:07:02,063\n肯定文化部有依照當時大家的期待有補助要點而且在施行當中那現在有個相關的問題就是實名制的集聚式退票方案看起來就是還是有改善的空間上次我們因為台灣的確發生這個事就是有相關的事件然後中國樂團萬能青年旅店來台灣那其實就是使用這個比較適合實名制的集聚式退票方案\n\n18\n00:07:02,503 --> 00:07:23,156\n可是我們看了一下退票的內容發現台灣的規定還是相當的嚴格就是多少天以前然後當天的話幾乎拿不到錢等等那很多民團不是很多民團民團反應這樣子對消費者權益沒有辦法保障那後來我們了解如果參考韓國公平交易委員會的消費者糾紛解決標的的話\n\n19\n00:07:26,218 --> 00:07:55,143\n他們對退費天數的標準相對寬鬆扣款趴數也比較嚴格有給消費者更多的保障甚至在演出前10天還有全額退費的選項那我想這是韓國的公平交易委員會制定出來的解決標準那你們是登記在你們是在藝文表演卷定型化契約裡面有不得記載事項中有明確的規定是不是可以請次長也參考一下\n\n20\n00:07:56,183 --> 00:08:21,329\n韓國的方案能不能研議經濟齊聚式退票的方案更保護消費者的權益一些呢跟委員報告主要是這我們可以來研議啦不過主要是因為在這個退票的方案的四個方案裡面的選擇權是由主辦單位來做決定那第二件事就是說在選擇退票方案的時候他還是有消費者跟這個業者之間的橫評問題因為雙方\n\n21\n00:08:23,689 --> 00:08:24,690\n主席主席主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5163\t7745\t次長,針對黃牛票的部分,我有想要追問的。我想去年我們修法之後,其實黃牛房子已經有很大的進步,現在我們討論的都是進入實際執行後的問題。\n29256\t53361\t剛剛已經有委員問過那目前就是這是你們的黃牛檢舉專區可以看到檢舉要求的資訊非常的仔細包含這個入場序號跟票券編號流水號那我認為這個因為他要求到入場序號跟票券編號的這個流水號那這其實會讓就是檢舉人如果沒有實質買到票\n55141\t83193\t其實就會缺乏資訊那我們看一下就是你們提供的資料行事要件不齊備的案件就超過1000件總共有1640件那就有超過1000件那我回來看一下我們當初的修法的就是我們原本的這個第十之一條第二款對定的是教藝文表演票券已超過票面金額或定價販售者按票券章數懲罰碼\n84814\t96721\t販售者就只要販售這個行為就完成了犯罪行為並不需要到購買可是我們現在要求的檢舉要件我發現是你們自己的行政規範檢舉案件處理及獎勵辦法的第三項要求檢舉人必須要具備座位號碼、入場序號、票券編號等\n108547\t135484\t所以好像有點是自己把這個檢舉的要件訂得太嚴格不知道次長是不是同意我這個分析根文報告為什麼一定要有票券的號碼或流水號的關鍵是要取得購票者的資料因為如果沒有這個號碼的話我們就不會知道是誰購買了這張票所以它其實有確認票券的意思那如果我們不知道是誰購買了這張票那個掃票型的黃牛就沒有辦法從這裡來獲得\n137085\t137305\t主席\n155931\t183748\t市長 我知道你的用意是要這個就是說購買的事實成立之後那才能夠有明確的這個販售的資料可是我覺得這裡有個矛盾我們叫人檢舉黃牛可是檢舉人必須實質上買了黃牛票等於參與這個犯罪行為他才能檢舉那可是回頭看我們當時在這個立法院討論的時候我們的文字上就只有\n184048\t184088\t販售．章術\n204775\t205615\t請經管會代表今天有嗎?詢問一下\n231584\t244782\t今天提供的報告說可以依照稅捐基徵法第30條、涉救法第幾條可不可以講一下依照稅捐基徵法第30條跟涉救法是什麼意思\n246094\t262169\t因為現在銀行法規定是說要調查銀行的金融資料的話必須以法律明文規定我們舉的例子只是說這兩個是現在行政機關有在調查的法律的規定給文化部參考\n263250\t286400\t其實我們就已經有修法規定了我覺得金管會好像消極了一些那這一次的你們提供的報告既然就可以比照稅捐激增法第30條還有這個受救法這部分是不是能夠更積極配合處理一下好嗎就是因為我們其實實質上修過了這就是犯受這個就是一個犯罪行為而且有法律的條文在\n286900\t313776\t目前的法律是還不夠到這個調查資料的位階目前的法律還不夠那如果法律還不夠那你們協調就可以處理不是協調我們是依法行政一定是按照法律的規定那就是我們的法律夠了你才有可能協調嘛所以不是法律不夠的問題是金管會太消極好嗎那因為你剛剛也沒有跟我說出到底是這個稅捐積增法跟涉救法第幾個詳細內容那顯然你還不夠熟悉那請那個金管會積極點因為還有問題要問請回謝謝\n317418\t338628\t次長,剛剛有委員有問過了就是現在至少根據苗博雅議員的公開質詢高雄跟台北市就是實質上開罰率差異很大那所以是不是次長針對開罰率差異這麼的大執行面也給我們委員會一個報告就是說如何改善好嗎?好\n339949\t363565\t好 那我想這個部分就是檢舉的門檻那最後我還想就是如何落實我們通過的黃牛條款這部分需要中央跟地方合作那另外呢民間團體還反映一件事就是免費的票券運產條例跟文創條例我們在修的時候條文文字的確不一樣那可是我清楚記得當時部長史哲有回答我們\n364005\t365126\t最後一件事呢實名制我也\n392643\t422063\t肯定文化部有依照當時大家的期待有補助要點而且在施行當中那現在有個相關的問題就是實名制的集聚式退票方案看起來就是還是有改善的空間上次我們因為台灣的確發生這個事就是有相關的事件然後中國樂團萬能青年旅店來台灣那其實就是使用這個比較適合實名制的集聚式退票方案\n422503\t443156\t可是我們看了一下退票的內容發現台灣的規定還是相當的嚴格就是多少天以前然後當天的話幾乎拿不到錢等等那很多民團不是很多民團民團反應這樣子對消費者權益沒有辦法保障那後來我們了解如果參考韓國公平交易委員會的消費者糾紛解決標的的話\n446218\t475143\t他們對退費天數的標準相對寬鬆扣款趴數也比較嚴格有給消費者更多的保障甚至在演出前10天還有全額退費的選項那我想這是韓國的公平交易委員會制定出來的解決標準那你們是登記在你們是在藝文表演卷定型化契約裡面有不得記載事項中有明確的規定是不是可以請次長也參考一下\n476183\t501329\t韓國的方案能不能研議經濟齊聚式退票的方案更保護消費者的權益一些呢跟委員報告主要是這我們可以來研議啦不過主要是因為在這個退票的方案的四個方案裡面的選擇權是由主辦單位來做決定那第二件事就是說在選擇退票方案的時候他還是有消費者跟這個業者之間的橫評問題因為雙方\n503689\t504690\t主席主席主席\n","txt":"次長,針對黃牛票的部分,我有想要追問的。我想去年我們修法之後,其實黃牛房子已經有很大的進步,現在我們討論的都是進入實際執行後的問題。\n剛剛已經有委員問過那目前就是這是你們的黃牛檢舉專區可以看到檢舉要求的資訊非常的仔細包含這個入場序號跟票券編號流水號那我認為這個因為他要求到入場序號跟票券編號的這個流水號那這其實會讓就是檢舉人如果沒有實質買到票\n其實就會缺乏資訊那我們看一下就是你們提供的資料行事要件不齊備的案件就超過1000件總共有1640件那就有超過1000件那我回來看一下我們當初的修法的就是我們原本的這個第十之一條第二款對定的是教藝文表演票券已超過票面金額或定價販售者按票券章數懲罰碼\n販售者就只要販售這個行為就完成了犯罪行為並不需要到購買可是我們現在要求的檢舉要件我發現是你們自己的行政規範檢舉案件處理及獎勵辦法的第三項要求檢舉人必須要具備座位號碼、入場序號、票券編號等\n所以好像有點是自己把這個檢舉的要件訂得太嚴格不知道次長是不是同意我這個分析根文報告為什麼一定要有票券的號碼或流水號的關鍵是要取得購票者的資料因為如果沒有這個號碼的話我們就不會知道是誰購買了這張票所以它其實有確認票券的意思那如果我們不知道是誰購買了這張票那個掃票型的黃牛就沒有辦法從這裡來獲得\n主席\n市長 我知道你的用意是要這個就是說購買的事實成立之後那才能夠有明確的這個販售的資料可是我覺得這裡有個矛盾我們叫人檢舉黃牛可是檢舉人必須實質上買了黃牛票等於參與這個犯罪行為他才能檢舉那可是回頭看我們當時在這個立法院討論的時候我們的文字上就只有\n販售．章術\n請經管會代表今天有嗎?詢問一下\n今天提供的報告說可以依照稅捐基徵法第30條、涉救法第幾條可不可以講一下依照稅捐基徵法第30條跟涉救法是什麼意思\n因為現在銀行法規定是說要調查銀行的金融資料的話必須以法律明文規定我們舉的例子只是說這兩個是現在行政機關有在調查的法律的規定給文化部參考\n其實我們就已經有修法規定了我覺得金管會好像消極了一些那這一次的你們提供的報告既然就可以比照稅捐激增法第30條還有這個受救法這部分是不是能夠更積極配合處理一下好嗎就是因為我們其實實質上修過了這就是犯受這個就是一個犯罪行為而且有法律的條文在\n目前的法律是還不夠到這個調查資料的位階目前的法律還不夠那如果法律還不夠那你們協調就可以處理不是協調我們是依法行政一定是按照法律的規定那就是我們的法律夠了你才有可能協調嘛所以不是法律不夠的問題是金管會太消極好嗎那因為你剛剛也沒有跟我說出到底是這個稅捐積增法跟涉救法第幾個詳細內容那顯然你還不夠熟悉那請那個金管會積極點因為還有問題要問請回謝謝\n次長,剛剛有委員有問過了就是現在至少根據苗博雅議員的公開質詢高雄跟台北市就是實質上開罰率差異很大那所以是不是次長針對開罰率差異這麼的大執行面也給我們委員會一個報告就是說如何改善好嗎?好\n好 那我想這個部分就是檢舉的門檻那最後我還想就是如何落實我們通過的黃牛條款這部分需要中央跟地方合作那另外呢民間團體還反映一件事就是免費的票券運產條例跟文創條例我們在修的時候條文文字的確不一樣那可是我清楚記得當時部長史哲有回答我們\n最後一件事呢實名制我也\n肯定文化部有依照當時大家的期待有補助要點而且在施行當中那現在有個相關的問題就是實名制的集聚式退票方案看起來就是還是有改善的空間上次我們因為台灣的確發生這個事就是有相關的事件然後中國樂團萬能青年旅店來台灣那其實就是使用這個比較適合實名制的集聚式退票方案\n可是我們看了一下退票的內容發現台灣的規定還是相當的嚴格就是多少天以前然後當天的話幾乎拿不到錢等等那很多民團不是很多民團民團反應這樣子對消費者權益沒有辦法保障那後來我們了解如果參考韓國公平交易委員會的消費者糾紛解決標的的話\n他們對退費天數的標準相對寬鬆扣款趴數也比較嚴格有給消費者更多的保障甚至在演出前10天還有全額退費的選項那我想這是韓國的公平交易委員會制定出來的解決標準那你們是登記在你們是在藝文表演卷定型化契約裡面有不得記載事項中有明確的規定是不是可以請次長也參考一下\n韓國的方案能不能研議經濟齊聚式退票的方案更保護消費者的權益一些呢跟委員報告主要是這我們可以來研議啦不過主要是因為在這個退票的方案的四個方案裡面的選擇權是由主辦單位來做決定那第二件事就是說在選擇退票方案的時候他還是有消費者跟這個業者之間的橫評問題因為雙方\n主席主席主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.163 --> 00:07.745\n次長,針對黃牛票的部分,我有想要追問的。我想去年我們修法之後,其實黃牛房子已經有很大的進步,現在我們討論的都是進入實際執行後的問題。\n\n00:29.256 --> 00:53.361\n剛剛已經有委員問過那目前就是這是你們的黃牛檢舉專區可以看到檢舉要求的資訊非常的仔細包含這個入場序號跟票券編號流水號那我認為這個因為他要求到入場序號跟票券編號的這個流水號那這其實會讓就是檢舉人如果沒有實質買到票\n\n00:55.141 --> 01:23.193\n其實就會缺乏資訊那我們看一下就是你們提供的資料行事要件不齊備的案件就超過1000件總共有1640件那就有超過1000件那我回來看一下我們當初的修法的就是我們原本的這個第十之一條第二款對定的是教藝文表演票券已超過票面金額或定價販售者按票券章數懲罰碼\n\n01:24.814 --> 01:36.721\n販售者就只要販售這個行為就完成了犯罪行為並不需要到購買可是我們現在要求的檢舉要件我發現是你們自己的行政規範檢舉案件處理及獎勵辦法的第三項要求檢舉人必須要具備座位號碼、入場序號、票券編號等\n\n01:48.547 --> 02:15.484\n所以好像有點是自己把這個檢舉的要件訂得太嚴格不知道次長是不是同意我這個分析根文報告為什麼一定要有票券的號碼或流水號的關鍵是要取得購票者的資料因為如果沒有這個號碼的話我們就不會知道是誰購買了這張票所以它其實有確認票券的意思那如果我們不知道是誰購買了這張票那個掃票型的黃牛就沒有辦法從這裡來獲得\n\n02:17.085 --> 02:17.305\n主席\n\n02:35.931 --> 03:03.748\n市長我知道你的用意是要這個就是說購買的事實成立之後那才能夠有明確的這個販售的資料可是我覺得這裡有個矛盾我們叫人檢舉黃牛可是檢舉人必須實質上買了黃牛票等於參與這個犯罪行為他才能檢舉那可是回頭看我們當時在這個立法院討論的時候我們的文字上就只有\n\n03:04.048 --> 03:04.088\n販售．章術\n\n03:24.775 --> 03:25.615\n請經管會代表今天有嗎?詢問一下\n\n03:51.584 --> 04:04.782\n今天提供的報告說可以依照稅捐基徵法第30條、涉救法第幾條可不可以講一下依照稅捐基徵法第30條跟涉救法是什麼意思\n\n04:06.094 --> 04:22.169\n因為現在銀行法規定是說要調查銀行的金融資料的話必須以法律明文規定我們舉的例子只是說這兩個是現在行政機關有在調查的法律的規定給文化部參考\n\n04:23.250 --> 04:46.400\n其實我們就已經有修法規定了我覺得金管會好像消極了一些那這一次的你們提供的報告既然就可以比照稅捐激增法第30條還有這個受救法這部分是不是能夠更積極配合處理一下好嗎就是因為我們其實實質上修過了這就是犯受這個就是一個犯罪行為而且有法律的條文在\n\n04:46.900 --> 05:13.776\n目前的法律是還不夠到這個調查資料的位階目前的法律還不夠那如果法律還不夠那你們協調就可以處理不是協調我們是依法行政一定是按照法律的規定那就是我們的法律夠了你才有可能協調嘛所以不是法律不夠的問題是金管會太消極好嗎那因為你剛剛也沒有跟我說出到底是這個稅捐積增法跟涉救法第幾個詳細內容那顯然你還不夠熟悉那請那個金管會積極點因為還有問題要問請回謝謝\n\n05:17.418 --> 05:38.628\n次長,剛剛有委員有問過了就是現在至少根據苗博雅議員的公開質詢高雄跟台北市就是實質上開罰率差異很大那所以是不是次長針對開罰率差異這麼的大執行面也給我們委員會一個報告就是說如何改善好嗎?好\n\n05:39.949 --> 06:03.565\n好那我想這個部分就是檢舉的門檻那最後我還想就是如何落實我們通過的黃牛條款這部分需要中央跟地方合作那另外呢民間團體還反映一件事就是免費的票券運產條例跟文創條例我們在修的時候條文文字的確不一樣那可是我清楚記得當時部長史哲有回答我們\n\n06:04.005 --> 06:05.126\n最後一件事呢實名制我也\n\n06:32.643 --> 07:02.063\n肯定文化部有依照當時大家的期待有補助要點而且在施行當中那現在有個相關的問題就是實名制的集聚式退票方案看起來就是還是有改善的空間上次我們因為台灣的確發生這個事就是有相關的事件然後中國樂團萬能青年旅店來台灣那其實就是使用這個比較適合實名制的集聚式退票方案\n\n07:02.503 --> 07:23.156\n可是我們看了一下退票的內容發現台灣的規定還是相當的嚴格就是多少天以前然後當天的話幾乎拿不到錢等等那很多民團不是很多民團民團反應這樣子對消費者權益沒有辦法保障那後來我們了解如果參考韓國公平交易委員會的消費者糾紛解決標的的話\n\n07:26.218 --> 07:55.143\n他們對退費天數的標準相對寬鬆扣款趴數也比較嚴格有給消費者更多的保障甚至在演出前10天還有全額退費的選項那我想這是韓國的公平交易委員會制定出來的解決標準那你們是登記在你們是在藝文表演卷定型化契約裡面有不得記載事項中有明確的規定是不是可以請次長也參考一下\n\n07:56.183 --> 08:21.329\n韓國的方案能不能研議經濟齊聚式退票的方案更保護消費者的權益一些呢跟委員報告主要是這我們可以來研議啦不過主要是因為在這個退票的方案的四個方案裡面的選擇權是由主辦單位來做決定那第二件事就是說在選擇退票方案的時候他還是有消費者跟這個業者之間的橫評問題因為雙方\n\n08:23.689 --> 08:24.690\n主席主席主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.163,"end":7.745,"text":"次長,針對黃牛票的部分,我有想要追問的。我想去年我們修法之後,其實黃牛房子已經有很大的進步,現在我們討論的都是進入實際執行後的問題。"},{"start":29.256,"end":53.361,"text":"剛剛已經有委員問過那目前就是這是你們的黃牛檢舉專區可以看到檢舉要求的資訊非常的仔細包含這個入場序號跟票券編號流水號那我認為這個因為他要求到入場序號跟票券編號的這個流水號那這其實會讓就是檢舉人如果沒有實質買到票"},{"start":55.141,"end":83.193,"text":"其實就會缺乏資訊那我們看一下就是你們提供的資料行事要件不齊備的案件就超過1000件總共有1640件那就有超過1000件那我回來看一下我們當初的修法的就是我們原本的這個第十之一條第二款對定的是教藝文表演票券已超過票面金額或定價販售者按票券章數懲罰碼"},{"start":84.814,"end":96.721,"text":"販售者就只要販售這個行為就完成了犯罪行為並不需要到購買可是我們現在要求的檢舉要件我發現是你們自己的行政規範檢舉案件處理及獎勵辦法的第三項要求檢舉人必須要具備座位號碼、入場序號、票券編號等"},{"start":108.547,"end":135.484,"text":"所以好像有點是自己把這個檢舉的要件訂得太嚴格不知道次長是不是同意我這個分析根文報告為什麼一定要有票券的號碼或流水號的關鍵是要取得購票者的資料因為如果沒有這個號碼的話我們就不會知道是誰購買了這張票所以它其實有確認票券的意思那如果我們不知道是誰購買了這張票那個掃票型的黃牛就沒有辦法從這裡來獲得"},{"start":137.085,"end":137.305,"text":"主席"},{"start":155.931,"end":183.748,"text":"市長 我知道你的用意是要這個就是說購買的事實成立之後那才能夠有明確的這個販售的資料可是我覺得這裡有個矛盾我們叫人檢舉黃牛可是檢舉人必須實質上買了黃牛票等於參與這個犯罪行為他才能檢舉那可是回頭看我們當時在這個立法院討論的時候我們的文字上就只有"},{"start":184.048,"end":184.088,"text":"販售．章術"},{"start":204.775,"end":205.615,"text":"請經管會代表今天有嗎?詢問一下"},{"start":231.584,"end":244.782,"text":"今天提供的報告說可以依照稅捐基徵法第30條、涉救法第幾條可不可以講一下依照稅捐基徵法第30條跟涉救法是什麼意思"},{"start":246.094,"end":262.169,"text":"因為現在銀行法規定是說要調查銀行的金融資料的話必須以法律明文規定我們舉的例子只是說這兩個是現在行政機關有在調查的法律的規定給文化部參考"},{"start":263.25,"end":286.4,"text":"其實我們就已經有修法規定了我覺得金管會好像消極了一些那這一次的你們提供的報告既然就可以比照稅捐激增法第30條還有這個受救法這部分是不是能夠更積極配合處理一下好嗎就是因為我們其實實質上修過了這就是犯受這個就是一個犯罪行為而且有法律的條文在"},{"start":286.9,"end":313.776,"text":"目前的法律是還不夠到這個調查資料的位階目前的法律還不夠那如果法律還不夠那你們協調就可以處理不是協調我們是依法行政一定是按照法律的規定那就是我們的法律夠了你才有可能協調嘛所以不是法律不夠的問題是金管會太消極好嗎那因為你剛剛也沒有跟我說出到底是這個稅捐積增法跟涉救法第幾個詳細內容那顯然你還不夠熟悉那請那個金管會積極點因為還有問題要問請回謝謝"},{"start":317.418,"end":338.628,"text":"次長,剛剛有委員有問過了就是現在至少根據苗博雅議員的公開質詢高雄跟台北市就是實質上開罰率差異很大那所以是不是次長針對開罰率差異這麼的大執行面也給我們委員會一個報告就是說如何改善好嗎?好"},{"start":339.949,"end":363.565,"text":"好 那我想這個部分就是檢舉的門檻那最後我還想就是如何落實我們通過的黃牛條款這部分需要中央跟地方合作那另外呢民間團體還反映一件事就是免費的票券運產條例跟文創條例我們在修的時候條文文字的確不一樣那可是我清楚記得當時部長史哲有回答我們"},{"start":364.005,"end":365.126,"text":"最後一件事呢實名制我也"},{"start":392.643,"end":422.063,"text":"肯定文化部有依照當時大家的期待有補助要點而且在施行當中那現在有個相關的問題就是實名制的集聚式退票方案看起來就是還是有改善的空間上次我們因為台灣的確發生這個事就是有相關的事件然後中國樂團萬能青年旅店來台灣那其實就是使用這個比較適合實名制的集聚式退票方案"},{"start":422.503,"end":443.156,"text":"可是我們看了一下退票的內容發現台灣的規定還是相當的嚴格就是多少天以前然後當天的話幾乎拿不到錢等等那很多民團不是很多民團民團反應這樣子對消費者權益沒有辦法保障那後來我們了解如果參考韓國公平交易委員會的消費者糾紛解決標的的話"},{"start":446.218,"end":475.143,"text":"他們對退費天數的標準相對寬鬆扣款趴數也比較嚴格有給消費者更多的保障甚至在演出前10天還有全額退費的選項那我想這是韓國的公平交易委員會制定出來的解決標準那你們是登記在你們是在藝文表演卷定型化契約裡面有不得記載事項中有明確的規定是不是可以請次長也參考一下"},{"start":476.183,"end":501.329,"text":"韓國的方案能不能研議經濟齊聚式退票的方案更保護消費者的權益一些呢跟委員報告主要是這我們可以來研議啦不過主要是因為在這個退票的方案的四個方案裡面的選擇權是由主辦單位來做決定那第二件事就是說在選擇退票方案的時候他還是有消費者跟這個業者之間的橫評問題因為雙方"},{"start":503.689,"end":504.69,"text":"主席主席主席"}]}}}}