{"id":151857,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151857","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e90f54132b1096e6a2e3d7f5cbe264df055d9f022d149edd34e2527b10508eee931d1867babebde95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱鎮軍","委員發言時間":"11:08:36 - 11:16:42","影片長度":"00:08:06","會議時間":"2024-04-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查\n一、委員黃捷等20人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十六條、第三十九條及第五十一條條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員林岱樺等20人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第八條、第三十九條及第四十七條條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第二條、第三十九條及第四十四條條文修正草案」案。\n四、委員蘇清泉等24人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十八條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n六、委員葛如鈞等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條及第四十四條條文修正草案」案。\n七、委員徐巧芯等24人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n八、委員陳冠廷等18人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n九、委員黃健豪等17人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n十、委員林宜瑾等26人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例增訂第三十九條之一條文草案」案。\n十一、委員李坤城等22人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n十二、委員沈伯洋等19人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n十三、委員廖偉翔等17人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n十四、委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條及第四十四條條文修正草案」案。\n十五、委員廖偉翔等17人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例增訂第四十一條之一條文草案」案。\n十六、委員王育敏等19人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n十七、委員黃建賓等18人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條及第五十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十八、委員許宇甄等26人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第二條及第三十八條條文修正草案」案。\n十九、委員王世堅等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十、委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十一、委員王美惠等18人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n二十二、國民黨黨團擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十三、委員王鴻薇等25人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十四、委員萬美玲等20人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第四十四條、第五十一條及第五十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n二十五、委員賴士葆等22人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」案...等36案。\n【以上議案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n【4月29日及5月1日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-04-29","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[26,36],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-26,36-1"},"duration":486,"end_time":"2024-04-29T11:16:42+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-29T11:08:36+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":953,"blocks":[["邱委員鎮軍：（11時8分）主席，我們有請法務部檢察司朱主任檢察官，以及司法院少年及家事廳的陸法官。"],["主席（王委員育敏）：請。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你好！我想請問一下，臺中地檢署偵辦臺版的N號房案，檢方除了依據兒少性剝削防制條例來偵辦之外，也把SCP論壇的幹部、供應者視為組織犯罪來偵辦，那麼我想請問一下法務部，這種模式未來會不會成為檢方打擊性影像犯罪的一個常態手段？"],["朱主任檢察官華君：不好意思，想跟委員確認一下，你是說組織犯罪嗎？適用組織犯罪條例嗎？"],["邱委員鎮軍：對，你們現在是用這條法令來辦，對不對？"],["朱主任檢察官華君：對，其實檢察官會視個案的情節與事證，因為其實組織犯罪條例有自己的定義，如果符合這個定義，檢察官就會適用。"],["邱委員鎮軍：這個部分有必要修法嗎？"],["朱主任檢察官華君：我們是認為組織犯罪條例就已經有規定了，所以檢察官其實是可以直接適用。"],["邱委員鎮軍：但是這個部分我覺得沒有寫得很清楚，不是嗎？"],["朱主任檢察官華君：這個我想我們尊重委員的意見。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我現在不是反對你們用這種方式來偵辦，我也贊成，但只是我覺得這個部分是不是要再討論？"],["朱主任檢察官華君：是可以討論。"],["邱委員鎮軍：如果說有修法的必要，我想我們應該要朝著修法的態度來做，這樣對於我們執法的人也會比較明確。"],["朱主任檢察官華君：是，瞭解。"],["邱委員鎮軍：另外，民團認為兒少性影像犯罪逐年修法加重刑度，但是卻經常面臨司法的輕縱，甚至有三成的案件以情堪憐憫為偷拍者減刑，成為防制的一個破口，我想請問今天出席的司法院少年及家事廳的代表，您的看法如何？"],["陸法官怡璇：謝謝委員，關於委員垂詢刑度這個部分，原則上司法院這邊我們尊重個案法官在個案裡面的認事用法，我們一定會在法定刑的範圍內進行妥適的量刑。"],["邱委員鎮軍：像這一次臺中檢方聲押SCP論壇案的主嫌，一度被法院以無管轄權駁回，然後經抗告成功才收押。過去這種事情也不只是一次，面對這種問題大概都是罰錢了事，去年修法後，仍然是規定一年以下的徒刑，本席也希望司法人員對這類犯罪能夠有更深一層的認識，不能再用這也沒什麼的思維，用這種角度、這種態度來辦案，好不好？"],["陸法官怡璇：好"],["邱委員鎮軍：另外，針對今天討論的主題，也是在111年4月29日第4屆推動小組第5次的會議就有民團委員提案，要求政府與國外知名網路業者Google、Meta合作，快速移除含有未成年個資、照片、影像等資料。當然衛福部在後來也在第6次的會議報告兩個重點，第一點，衛福部認為透過iWIN還有與平臺業者合作，可有效處理即時下架的事宜；第二，衛福部表示，網路平臺業者對於兒少性影像移除及下架事宜執行無虞。結果現在看起來也是非常諷刺，因為真正遇到問題時就是沒有辦法下架，問題出在哪裡你知道嗎？"],["陸法官怡璇：這部分可以請衛福部司長回答，謝謝。"],["張司長秀鴛：委員好。iWIN處理的是兒少不宜觀看、18禁的內容，在性影像的議題上面後來我們成立了性影像處理中心去做通知，讓網路業者移除下架，如果他有留資訊可以通知得到，基本上他的移除率是高的，除非他沒有留資訊……"],["邱委員鎮軍：但現在大家都是用跳的，不是嗎？到後來都追不到人。"],["張司長秀鴛：是，封了之後他會用VPN，這個部分的確目前的技術上面還沒有一個可行的方式。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我認為像這個既然要管，我們就管得澈底一點，不能讓這些犯罪者有漏洞可以鑽，希望在這個部分上我們來想一個辦法，能夠嚴格來執行，好嗎？"],["張司長秀鴛：朝這個方向努力。"],["邱委員鎮軍：再來我請衛福部，你們請回。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：在上週六民團上凱道集會遊行，您知道吧？"],["薛部長瑞元：知道。"],["邱委員鎮軍：他們提出政府應成立兒少權益辦公室，據本席瞭解，行政院已經在103年就設置行政院兒童及少年福利與權益推動小組，在蔡政府任內由林萬億政務委員擔任召集人，到現在已經將近8年，召開24次的會議。您覺得專案辦公室與專案推動小組的功能有沒有不一樣？"],["薛部長瑞元：以現在的這個機制在做推動的話，應該也沒有什麼窒礙難行的啦！"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以部長覺得這樣子是好的？"],["薛部長瑞元：應該是對……"],["邱委員鎮軍：那為什麼大家都感覺不到它的存在，才會提這個案子？"],["薛部長瑞元：這部分如果要在行政院再成立一個辦公室的話，第一個就是怕會有疊床架屋的問題。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我覺得這個部分應該再加強運作，推動小組至今都沒有請數位發展部來參與，這部分您覺得有沒有必要提出來？"],["薛部長瑞元：這一次會增加。"],["邱委員鎮軍：會增加啦！希望部長儘快，雖然520要到了，但很多事情我覺得我們當一天和尚唸一天經。","最後，我也看到衛福部討論提案的次數在這麼多年來只有一次，而且是110年4月20號的事情，內容是針對兒童死因分析的協調。部長，這是不是表示衛福部推動兒少權益保障做得很好，還是幾乎沒有做？"],["薛部長瑞元：跟委員報告，事實上，大部分我們都是用報告案的方式去提的，在這個小組裡面的委員有一些是民間來的專家代表，提案大部分是由他們來提的。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好啦！時間也到了，我也不耽誤大家的時間，請部長認真一點，把這個事情好好的執行貫徹，好不好？"],["薛部長瑞元：好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝邱委員。我們現在休息5分鐘。","休息（11時16分）","繼續開會（11時22分）"],["主席：請大家就座，我們把握時間。","接下來請蘇清泉委員進行質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":356,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-26,36-1","speakers":["王育敏","黃捷","蘇清泉","郭昱晴","葛如鈞","陳冠廷","李坤城","許宇甄","沈伯洋","王世堅","陳菁徽","王美惠","王鴻薇","張雅琳","何欣純","范雲","林思銘","林月琴","陳昭姿","廖偉翔","劉建國","黃國昌","林淑芬","陳俊宇","王正旭","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","張嘉郡","楊瓊瓔","陳瑩","鍾佳濱","吳思瑤","陳亭妃","林宜瑾","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","李彥秀","蔡易餘","莊瑞雄","楊曜","盧縣一","涂權吉","羅智強","黃仁","沈發惠","羅廷瑋"],"page_start":131,"meetingDate":["2024-04-29"],"gazette_id":"1133701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員黃捷等20人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十六條、第三十九條及第五十一\n條條文修正草案」案；二、委員林岱樺等20人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第八條、第三十\n九條及第四十七條條文修正草案」案；三、委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例\n第二條、第三十九條及第四十四條條文修正草案」案；四、委員蘇清泉等24人擬具「兒童及少年\n性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」案；五、委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削\n防制條例第三十八條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案；六、委員葛如鈞等16人擬具「兒童及少年\n性剝削防制條例第三十九條及第四十四條條文修正草案」案；七、委員徐巧芯等24人擬具「兒童\n及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；八、委員陳冠廷等18人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削\n防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；九、委員黃健豪等17人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分\n條文修正草案」案；十、委員林宜瑾等26人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例增訂第三十九條之\n一條文草案」案；十一、委員李坤城等 22 人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草\n案」案；十二、委員沈伯洋等19人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」\n案；十三、委員廖偉翔等17人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十條條文修正草案」案；十\n四、委員廖偉翔等 18 人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條及第四十四條條文修正草\n案」案；十五、委員廖偉翔等17人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例增訂第四十一條之一條文草\n案」案；十六、委員王育敏等19人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；十\n七、委員黃建賓等 18 人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條及第五十一條條文修正草\n案」案；十八、委員許宇甄等26人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第二條及第三十八條條文修\n正草案」案；十九、委員王世堅等 16 人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」\n案；二十、委員陳菁徽等 16 人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；二十\n一、委員王美惠等 18 人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」案；二十\n二、國民黨黨團擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；二十三、委員王鴻薇\n等21人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；二十四、委員萬美玲等20人擬\n具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第四十四條、第五十一條及第五十三條之一條文修正草案」案；\n二十五、委員賴士葆等22人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」案；二\n十六、委員鍾佳濱等19人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；二十七、委\n員何欣純等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條及第五十一條條文修正草案」案；\n二十八、委員劉建國等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；二十九、\n委員柯志恩等19人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；三十、委員陳素月\n等18人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；三十一、委員范雲等17人擬具\n「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；三十二、委員林俊憲等21人擬具「兒童及\n少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；三十三、委員林思銘等24人擬具「兒童及少年性剝\n削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；三十四、委員張雅琳等25人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條\n例部分條文修正草案」案；三十五、委員陳培瑜等19人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條\n文修正草案」案；三十六、委員林月琴等21人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草\n案」案","agenda_id":"1133701_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"151857","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151857","tool":"pyannote","id":"151857-pyannote"},"job_id":"R1fVNoEBzltRrWwH","queued_at":"2024-05-31 16:01:37","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 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00:00:50,938\n台中地檢署偵辦台版N號防案,檢方除了依據兒少性剝削防制條例來偵辦之外,也把SCP論壇幹部供應者視為組織犯罪來偵辦。法務部,用這種模式,未來會不會成為檢方打擊性影像犯罪的常態手段?\n\n3\n00:01:02,684 --> 00:01:31,770\n不好意思,想請跟委員確認一下是說組織犯罪嗎?是用組織犯罪?對,你們現在是用這條法令來辦嘛,對不對?對,那就是其實就是檢察官會試個案的情節跟事證,那因為其實組織犯罪條例它有像的,就是它有自己的定義,那如果是符合這個定義檢察官就會使用。那這個部分有必要要修法嗎?其實我們是認為說其實組織犯罪條例就已經有規定了,所以檢察官其實是可以直接使用。但是這個部分我覺得沒有寫得很清楚,不是嗎?\n\n4\n00:01:37,269 --> 00:01:51,093\n我現在不是不讓你們用反對說你們用這種方式來申辦我也贊成但只是說我覺得這個部分是不是要再討論如果說有修法的必要我想我們應該要朝著這個修法的態度來做這樣子對於我們執法的人也會比較明確那另外\n\n5\n00:02:03,059 --> 00:02:25,613\n民團認為兒童性影像犯罪逐年修法加重刑度,但是卻經常面臨司法輕重,甚至有三成案件以勤勘憐憫、為偷拍者減刑,成為防制的破口。請問今天出席的司法院少年及家事廳代表,您的看法如何?\n\n6\n00:02:27,843 --> 00:02:53,806\n關於委員垂詢就是刑度這個部分的話,原則上司法院這邊我們尊重個案法官在個案裡面的認識用法。那我們一定會在法定刑的範圍內進行妥適的量刑。你像這一次台中檢方生壓SCP論壇案的主嫌,一度被法院以無管轄權駁回,然後經抗告成功才收押。\n\n7\n00:02:55,083 --> 00:03:19,377\n另外過去這種事情也不只是一次,面對這種問題大家都是罰錢了事。那麼去年修法後仍然是一年以下的徒刑。那本席也希望司法人員對於這類犯罪能夠有更深一層的認識,不能再用這也沒什麼的思維來侵犯這樣的、來用這種角度、這種態度來辦案。好不好?\n\n8\n00:03:24,005 --> 00:03:52,961\n另外我們針對今天討論的主題也是在111年4月29日第四屆推動小組第五次的會議就有民團委員提案要求政府與國外知名網路業者Google還有Meta合作快速移除含有未成年個資照片、影像等資料當然衛福部在後來也在第六次的會議報告兩個重點第一點衛福部認為透過\n\n9\n00:03:56,724 --> 00:04:20,684\n哀慰還有與平台業者合作可有效處理及時下架的事宜第二衛福部表示網路平台業者對於兒少性影像移除及下架事宜認為執行無虞結果現在看起來是非常諷刺因為真正遇到問題時就是沒有辦法下架我想問題出在哪裡你知道嗎\n\n10\n00:04:25,663 --> 00:04:27,386\n這部分可以請衛福部時長回答。謝謝。委員好。\n\n11\n00:04:34,483 --> 00:05:00,481\n安運處理的是兒少不宜觀看的貴滿18禁的這些內容後來在性影像的議題上面後來我們成立了性影像處理中心去做通知讓網路業者移除下降如果他有留資訊可以通知得到基本上他的移除率是高的\n\n12\n00:05:01,081 --> 00:05:28,398\n除非他沒有…但是現在大家都是用跳的嘛,不是嗎?他們都…你到後來都追不到人啊。是,封了之後他會用VPN。對。那這個部分的確目前的技術上面還沒有一個可行的方式。我認為啦,像這既然要管,我們就管的徹底一點。不能讓這些犯罪者有漏洞可以鑽。那是不是希望在這個部分上,我們來想過一個辦法,能夠來嚴格來執行,好嗎?朝這個方向努力,是。好。\n\n13\n00:05:29,315 --> 00:05:32,336\n那再來齁,我請衛福部,你們請回。我等一下啊,一分鐘。那我想齁,在上週六,民團上凱道集會遊行,您知道吧?那當然政府提出\n\n14\n00:05:50,613 --> 00:06:14,750\n應成立兒少權益辦公室。據本席瞭解,行政院已經在103年就設置行政院兒童及少年福利與權益推動小組,在蔡政府任內由林萬義政務委員擔任召集人,到現在已經將近8年召開24次會議。您覺得專案辦公室與專案推動小組的功能有沒有不一樣?\n\n15\n00:06:18,375 --> 00:06:34,463\n應該以現在的這個機制在做推動的話,也沒有什麼自愛難行的啦。所以部長覺得說這樣子是好的?但為什麼大家都感覺不到它的存在,才會提這個案子啊?\n\n16\n00:06:35,965 --> 00:07:04,037\n這部分的話大概如果要在行政院再成立一個辦公室的話那第一個就是他會有跌創家屋的問題還有齁那我覺得啦齁我覺得就是這個部分呢應該再加強齁然後加強來表就是運作齁然後我們推動小組至今都沒有和數位發展部這邊來請他們來參與齁這部分您覺得有沒有必要提出來?\n\n17\n00:07:04,779 --> 00:07:26,513\n這一次會增加啦我希望部長趕快把這個雖然520要到了那很多事情我覺得還是我們當一天和尚念一天經那還有最後我也看到說我們衛福部的討論提案的次數在這麼多年來只有一次而且是110年4月20號的事情\n\n18\n00:07:30,135 --> 00:07:54,808\n內容是針對兒童死因分析的協調。那這部長,這是不是表示我們衛福部推動兒童權益保障做得很好,還是幾乎沒有做?這跟我們報告,事實上大部分我們都是用一個報告案的方式去提的。那在這個小組裡面的委員,有一些是民間來的專家代表,提案大部分是由他們來提。\n\n19\n00:07:56,735 --> 00:08:03,483\n時間也到了,也不耽誤大家時間,請部長真的把這個事情當作認真一點,把它好好的來執行貫徹好不好?好,謝謝。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n14011\t24198\t主席,我們有請法務部檢察司、我們駐主任檢察官以及司法院少年及家事廳的陸法官。好,來,請。\n35525\t50938\t台中地檢署偵辦台版N號防案,檢方除了依據兒少性剝削防制條例來偵辦之外,也把SCP論壇幹部供應者視為組織犯罪來偵辦。法務部,用這種模式,未來會不會成為檢方打擊性影像犯罪的常態手段?\n62684\t91770\t不好意思,想請跟委員確認一下是說組織犯罪嗎?是用組織犯罪?對,你們現在是用這條法令來辦嘛,對不對?對,那就是其實就是檢察官會試個案的情節跟事證,那因為其實組織犯罪條例它有像的,就是它有自己的定義,那如果是符合這個定義檢察官就會使用。那這個部分有必要要修法嗎?其實我們是認為說其實組織犯罪條例就已經有規定了,所以檢察官其實是可以直接使用。但是這個部分我覺得沒有寫得很清楚,不是嗎?\n97269\t111093\t我現在不是不讓你們用反對說你們用這種方式來申辦我也贊成但只是說我覺得這個部分是不是要再討論如果說有修法的必要我想我們應該要朝著這個修法的態度來做這樣子對於我們執法的人也會比較明確那另外\n123059\t145613\t民團認為兒童性影像犯罪逐年修法加重刑度,但是卻經常面臨司法輕重,甚至有三成案件以勤勘憐憫、為偷拍者減刑,成為防制的破口。請問今天出席的司法院少年及家事廳代表,您的看法如何?\n147843\t173806\t關於委員垂詢就是刑度這個部分的話,原則上司法院這邊我們尊重個案法官在個案裡面的認識用法。那我們一定會在法定刑的範圍內進行妥適的量刑。你像這一次台中檢方生壓SCP論壇案的主嫌,一度被法院以無管轄權駁回,然後經抗告成功才收押。\n175083\t199377\t另外過去這種事情也不只是一次,面對這種問題大家都是罰錢了事。那麼去年修法後仍然是一年以下的徒刑。那本席也希望司法人員對於這類犯罪能夠有更深一層的認識,不能再用這也沒什麼的思維來侵犯這樣的、來用這種角度、這種態度來辦案。好不好?\n204005\t232961\t另外我們針對今天討論的主題也是在111年4月29日第四屆推動小組第五次的會議就有民團委員提案要求政府與國外知名網路業者Google還有Meta合作快速移除含有未成年個資照片、影像等資料當然衛福部在後來也在第六次的會議報告兩個重點第一點衛福部認為透過\n236724\t260684\t哀慰還有與平台業者合作可有效處理及時下架的事宜第二衛福部表示網路平台業者對於兒少性影像移除及下架事宜認為執行無虞結果現在看起來是非常諷刺因為真正遇到問題時就是沒有辦法下架我想問題出在哪裡你知道嗎\n265663\t267386\t這部分可以請衛福部時長回答。謝謝。委員好。\n274483\t300481\t安運處理的是兒少不宜觀看的貴滿18禁的這些內容後來在性影像的議題上面後來我們成立了性影像處理中心去做通知讓網路業者移除下降如果他有留資訊可以通知得到基本上他的移除率是高的\n301081\t328398\t除非他沒有…但是現在大家都是用跳的嘛,不是嗎?他們都…你到後來都追不到人啊。是,封了之後他會用VPN。對。那這個部分的確目前的技術上面還沒有一個可行的方式。我認為啦,像這既然要管,我們就管的徹底一點。不能讓這些犯罪者有漏洞可以鑽。那是不是希望在這個部分上,我們來想過一個辦法,能夠來嚴格來執行,好嗎?朝這個方向努力,是。好。\n329315\t332336\t那再來齁,我請衛福部,你們請回。我等一下啊,一分鐘。那我想齁,在上週六,民團上凱道集會遊行,您知道吧?那當然政府提出\n350613\t374750\t應成立兒少權益辦公室。據本席瞭解,行政院已經在103年就設置行政院兒童及少年福利與權益推動小組,在蔡政府任內由林萬義政務委員擔任召集人,到現在已經將近8年召開24次會議。您覺得專案辦公室與專案推動小組的功能有沒有不一樣?\n378375\t394463\t應該以現在的這個機制在做推動的話,也沒有什麼自愛難行的啦。所以部長覺得說這樣子是好的?但為什麼大家都感覺不到它的存在,才會提這個案子啊?\n395965\t424037\t這部分的話大概如果要在行政院再成立一個辦公室的話那第一個就是他會有跌創家屋的問題還有齁那我覺得啦齁我覺得就是這個部分呢應該再加強齁然後加強來表就是運作齁然後我們推動小組至今都沒有和數位發展部這邊來請他們來參與齁這部分您覺得有沒有必要提出來?\n424779\t446513\t這一次會增加啦我希望部長趕快把這個雖然520要到了那很多事情我覺得還是我們當一天和尚念一天經那還有最後我也看到說我們衛福部的討論提案的次數在這麼多年來只有一次而且是110年4月20號的事情\n450135\t474808\t內容是針對兒童死因分析的協調。那這部長,這是不是表示我們衛福部推動兒童權益保障做得很好,還是幾乎沒有做?這跟我們報告,事實上大部分我們都是用一個報告案的方式去提的。那在這個小組裡面的委員,有一些是民間來的專家代表,提案大部分是由他們來提。\n476735\t483483\t時間也到了,也不耽誤大家時間,請部長真的把這個事情當作認真一點,把它好好的來執行貫徹好不好?好,謝謝。\n","txt":"主席,我們有請法務部檢察司、我們駐主任檢察官以及司法院少年及家事廳的陸法官。好,來,請。\n台中地檢署偵辦台版N號防案,檢方除了依據兒少性剝削防制條例來偵辦之外,也把SCP論壇幹部供應者視為組織犯罪來偵辦。法務部,用這種模式,未來會不會成為檢方打擊性影像犯罪的常態手段?\n不好意思,想請跟委員確認一下是說組織犯罪嗎?是用組織犯罪?對,你們現在是用這條法令來辦嘛,對不對?對,那就是其實就是檢察官會試個案的情節跟事證,那因為其實組織犯罪條例它有像的,就是它有自己的定義,那如果是符合這個定義檢察官就會使用。那這個部分有必要要修法嗎?其實我們是認為說其實組織犯罪條例就已經有規定了,所以檢察官其實是可以直接使用。但是這個部分我覺得沒有寫得很清楚,不是嗎?\n我現在不是不讓你們用反對說你們用這種方式來申辦我也贊成但只是說我覺得這個部分是不是要再討論如果說有修法的必要我想我們應該要朝著這個修法的態度來做這樣子對於我們執法的人也會比較明確那另外\n民團認為兒童性影像犯罪逐年修法加重刑度,但是卻經常面臨司法輕重,甚至有三成案件以勤勘憐憫、為偷拍者減刑,成為防制的破口。請問今天出席的司法院少年及家事廳代表,您的看法如何?\n關於委員垂詢就是刑度這個部分的話,原則上司法院這邊我們尊重個案法官在個案裡面的認識用法。那我們一定會在法定刑的範圍內進行妥適的量刑。你像這一次台中檢方生壓SCP論壇案的主嫌,一度被法院以無管轄權駁回,然後經抗告成功才收押。\n另外過去這種事情也不只是一次,面對這種問題大家都是罰錢了事。那麼去年修法後仍然是一年以下的徒刑。那本席也希望司法人員對於這類犯罪能夠有更深一層的認識,不能再用這也沒什麼的思維來侵犯這樣的、來用這種角度、這種態度來辦案。好不好?\n另外我們針對今天討論的主題也是在111年4月29日第四屆推動小組第五次的會議就有民團委員提案要求政府與國外知名網路業者Google還有Meta合作快速移除含有未成年個資照片、影像等資料當然衛福部在後來也在第六次的會議報告兩個重點第一點衛福部認為透過\n哀慰還有與平台業者合作可有效處理及時下架的事宜第二衛福部表示網路平台業者對於兒少性影像移除及下架事宜認為執行無虞結果現在看起來是非常諷刺因為真正遇到問題時就是沒有辦法下架我想問題出在哪裡你知道嗎\n這部分可以請衛福部時長回答。謝謝。委員好。\n安運處理的是兒少不宜觀看的貴滿18禁的這些內容後來在性影像的議題上面後來我們成立了性影像處理中心去做通知讓網路業者移除下降如果他有留資訊可以通知得到基本上他的移除率是高的\n除非他沒有…但是現在大家都是用跳的嘛,不是嗎?他們都…你到後來都追不到人啊。是,封了之後他會用VPN。對。那這個部分的確目前的技術上面還沒有一個可行的方式。我認為啦,像這既然要管,我們就管的徹底一點。不能讓這些犯罪者有漏洞可以鑽。那是不是希望在這個部分上,我們來想過一個辦法,能夠來嚴格來執行,好嗎?朝這個方向努力,是。好。\n那再來齁,我請衛福部,你們請回。我等一下啊,一分鐘。那我想齁,在上週六,民團上凱道集會遊行,您知道吧?那當然政府提出\n應成立兒少權益辦公室。據本席瞭解,行政院已經在103年就設置行政院兒童及少年福利與權益推動小組,在蔡政府任內由林萬義政務委員擔任召集人,到現在已經將近8年召開24次會議。您覺得專案辦公室與專案推動小組的功能有沒有不一樣?\n應該以現在的這個機制在做推動的話,也沒有什麼自愛難行的啦。所以部長覺得說這樣子是好的?但為什麼大家都感覺不到它的存在,才會提這個案子啊?\n這部分的話大概如果要在行政院再成立一個辦公室的話那第一個就是他會有跌創家屋的問題還有齁那我覺得啦齁我覺得就是這個部分呢應該再加強齁然後加強來表就是運作齁然後我們推動小組至今都沒有和數位發展部這邊來請他們來參與齁這部分您覺得有沒有必要提出來?\n這一次會增加啦我希望部長趕快把這個雖然520要到了那很多事情我覺得還是我們當一天和尚念一天經那還有最後我也看到說我們衛福部的討論提案的次數在這麼多年來只有一次而且是110年4月20號的事情\n內容是針對兒童死因分析的協調。那這部長,這是不是表示我們衛福部推動兒童權益保障做得很好,還是幾乎沒有做?這跟我們報告,事實上大部分我們都是用一個報告案的方式去提的。那在這個小組裡面的委員,有一些是民間來的專家代表,提案大部分是由他們來提。\n時間也到了,也不耽誤大家時間,請部長真的把這個事情當作認真一點,把它好好的來執行貫徹好不好?好,謝謝。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:14.011 --> 00:24.198\n主席,我們有請法務部檢察司、我們駐主任檢察官以及司法院少年及家事廳的陸法官。好,來,請。\n\n00:35.525 --> 00:50.938\n台中地檢署偵辦台版N號防案,檢方除了依據兒少性剝削防制條例來偵辦之外,也把SCP論壇幹部供應者視為組織犯罪來偵辦。法務部,用這種模式,未來會不會成為檢方打擊性影像犯罪的常態手段?\n\n01:02.684 --> 01:31.770\n不好意思,想請跟委員確認一下是說組織犯罪嗎?是用組織犯罪?對,你們現在是用這條法令來辦嘛,對不對?對,那就是其實就是檢察官會試個案的情節跟事證,那因為其實組織犯罪條例它有像的,就是它有自己的定義,那如果是符合這個定義檢察官就會使用。那這個部分有必要要修法嗎?其實我們是認為說其實組織犯罪條例就已經有規定了,所以檢察官其實是可以直接使用。但是這個部分我覺得沒有寫得很清楚,不是嗎?\n\n01:37.269 --> 01:51.093\n我現在不是不讓你們用反對說你們用這種方式來申辦我也贊成但只是說我覺得這個部分是不是要再討論如果說有修法的必要我想我們應該要朝著這個修法的態度來做這樣子對於我們執法的人也會比較明確那另外\n\n02:03.059 --> 02:25.613\n民團認為兒童性影像犯罪逐年修法加重刑度,但是卻經常面臨司法輕重,甚至有三成案件以勤勘憐憫、為偷拍者減刑,成為防制的破口。請問今天出席的司法院少年及家事廳代表,您的看法如何?\n\n02:27.843 --> 02:53.806\n關於委員垂詢就是刑度這個部分的話,原則上司法院這邊我們尊重個案法官在個案裡面的認識用法。那我們一定會在法定刑的範圍內進行妥適的量刑。你像這一次台中檢方生壓SCP論壇案的主嫌,一度被法院以無管轄權駁回,然後經抗告成功才收押。\n\n02:55.083 --> 03:19.377\n另外過去這種事情也不只是一次,面對這種問題大家都是罰錢了事。那麼去年修法後仍然是一年以下的徒刑。那本席也希望司法人員對於這類犯罪能夠有更深一層的認識,不能再用這也沒什麼的思維來侵犯這樣的、來用這種角度、這種態度來辦案。好不好?\n\n03:24.005 --> 03:52.961\n另外我們針對今天討論的主題也是在111年4月29日第四屆推動小組第五次的會議就有民團委員提案要求政府與國外知名網路業者Google還有Meta合作快速移除含有未成年個資照片、影像等資料當然衛福部在後來也在第六次的會議報告兩個重點第一點衛福部認為透過\n\n03:56.724 --> 04:20.684\n哀慰還有與平台業者合作可有效處理及時下架的事宜第二衛福部表示網路平台業者對於兒少性影像移除及下架事宜認為執行無虞結果現在看起來是非常諷刺因為真正遇到問題時就是沒有辦法下架我想問題出在哪裡你知道嗎\n\n04:25.663 --> 04:27.386\n這部分可以請衛福部時長回答。謝謝。委員好。\n\n04:34.483 --> 05:00.481\n安運處理的是兒少不宜觀看的貴滿18禁的這些內容後來在性影像的議題上面後來我們成立了性影像處理中心去做通知讓網路業者移除下降如果他有留資訊可以通知得到基本上他的移除率是高的\n\n05:01.081 --> 05:28.398\n除非他沒有…但是現在大家都是用跳的嘛,不是嗎?他們都…你到後來都追不到人啊。是,封了之後他會用VPN。對。那這個部分的確目前的技術上面還沒有一個可行的方式。我認為啦,像這既然要管,我們就管的徹底一點。不能讓這些犯罪者有漏洞可以鑽。那是不是希望在這個部分上,我們來想過一個辦法,能夠來嚴格來執行,好嗎?朝這個方向努力,是。好。\n\n05:29.315 --> 05:32.336\n那再來齁,我請衛福部,你們請回。我等一下啊,一分鐘。那我想齁,在上週六,民團上凱道集會遊行,您知道吧?那當然政府提出\n\n05:50.613 --> 06:14.750\n應成立兒少權益辦公室。據本席瞭解,行政院已經在103年就設置行政院兒童及少年福利與權益推動小組,在蔡政府任內由林萬義政務委員擔任召集人,到現在已經將近8年召開24次會議。您覺得專案辦公室與專案推動小組的功能有沒有不一樣?\n\n06:18.375 --> 06:34.463\n應該以現在的這個機制在做推動的話,也沒有什麼自愛難行的啦。所以部長覺得說這樣子是好的?但為什麼大家都感覺不到它的存在,才會提這個案子啊?\n\n06:35.965 --> 07:04.037\n這部分的話大概如果要在行政院再成立一個辦公室的話那第一個就是他會有跌創家屋的問題還有齁那我覺得啦齁我覺得就是這個部分呢應該再加強齁然後加強來表就是運作齁然後我們推動小組至今都沒有和數位發展部這邊來請他們來參與齁這部分您覺得有沒有必要提出來?\n\n07:04.779 --> 07:26.513\n這一次會增加啦我希望部長趕快把這個雖然520要到了那很多事情我覺得還是我們當一天和尚念一天經那還有最後我也看到說我們衛福部的討論提案的次數在這麼多年來只有一次而且是110年4月20號的事情\n\n07:30.135 --> 07:54.808\n內容是針對兒童死因分析的協調。那這部長,這是不是表示我們衛福部推動兒童權益保障做得很好,還是幾乎沒有做?這跟我們報告,事實上大部分我們都是用一個報告案的方式去提的。那在這個小組裡面的委員,有一些是民間來的專家代表,提案大部分是由他們來提。\n\n07:56.735 --> 08:03.483\n時間也到了,也不耽誤大家時間,請部長真的把這個事情當作認真一點,把它好好的來執行貫徹好不好?好,謝謝。\n\n","segments":[{"start":14.011,"end":24.198,"text":"主席,我們有請法務部檢察司、我們駐主任檢察官以及司法院少年及家事廳的陸法官。好,來,請。"},{"start":35.525,"end":50.938,"text":"台中地檢署偵辦台版N號防案,檢方除了依據兒少性剝削防制條例來偵辦之外,也把SCP論壇幹部供應者視為組織犯罪來偵辦。法務部,用這種模式,未來會不會成為檢方打擊性影像犯罪的常態手段?"},{"start":62.684,"end":91.77,"text":"不好意思,想請跟委員確認一下是說組織犯罪嗎?是用組織犯罪?對,你們現在是用這條法令來辦嘛,對不對?對,那就是其實就是檢察官會試個案的情節跟事證,那因為其實組織犯罪條例它有像的,就是它有自己的定義,那如果是符合這個定義檢察官就會使用。那這個部分有必要要修法嗎?其實我們是認為說其實組織犯罪條例就已經有規定了,所以檢察官其實是可以直接使用。但是這個部分我覺得沒有寫得很清楚,不是嗎?"},{"start":97.269,"end":111.093,"text":"我現在不是不讓你們用反對說你們用這種方式來申辦我也贊成但只是說我覺得這個部分是不是要再討論如果說有修法的必要我想我們應該要朝著這個修法的態度來做這樣子對於我們執法的人也會比較明確那另外"},{"start":123.059,"end":145.613,"text":"民團認為兒童性影像犯罪逐年修法加重刑度,但是卻經常面臨司法輕重,甚至有三成案件以勤勘憐憫、為偷拍者減刑,成為防制的破口。請問今天出席的司法院少年及家事廳代表,您的看法如何?"},{"start":147.843,"end":173.806,"text":"關於委員垂詢就是刑度這個部分的話,原則上司法院這邊我們尊重個案法官在個案裡面的認識用法。那我們一定會在法定刑的範圍內進行妥適的量刑。你像這一次台中檢方生壓SCP論壇案的主嫌,一度被法院以無管轄權駁回,然後經抗告成功才收押。"},{"start":175.083,"end":199.377,"text":"另外過去這種事情也不只是一次,面對這種問題大家都是罰錢了事。那麼去年修法後仍然是一年以下的徒刑。那本席也希望司法人員對於這類犯罪能夠有更深一層的認識,不能再用這也沒什麼的思維來侵犯這樣的、來用這種角度、這種態度來辦案。好不好?"},{"start":204.005,"end":232.961,"text":"另外我們針對今天討論的主題也是在111年4月29日第四屆推動小組第五次的會議就有民團委員提案要求政府與國外知名網路業者Google還有Meta合作快速移除含有未成年個資照片、影像等資料當然衛福部在後來也在第六次的會議報告兩個重點第一點衛福部認為透過"},{"start":236.724,"end":260.684,"text":"哀慰還有與平台業者合作可有效處理及時下架的事宜第二衛福部表示網路平台業者對於兒少性影像移除及下架事宜認為執行無虞結果現在看起來是非常諷刺因為真正遇到問題時就是沒有辦法下架我想問題出在哪裡你知道嗎"},{"start":265.663,"end":267.386,"text":"這部分可以請衛福部時長回答。謝謝。委員好。"},{"start":274.483,"end":300.481,"text":"安運處理的是兒少不宜觀看的貴滿18禁的這些內容後來在性影像的議題上面後來我們成立了性影像處理中心去做通知讓網路業者移除下降如果他有留資訊可以通知得到基本上他的移除率是高的"},{"start":301.081,"end":328.398,"text":"除非他沒有…但是現在大家都是用跳的嘛,不是嗎?他們都…你到後來都追不到人啊。是,封了之後他會用VPN。對。那這個部分的確目前的技術上面還沒有一個可行的方式。我認為啦,像這既然要管,我們就管的徹底一點。不能讓這些犯罪者有漏洞可以鑽。那是不是希望在這個部分上,我們來想過一個辦法,能夠來嚴格來執行,好嗎?朝這個方向努力,是。好。"},{"start":329.315,"end":332.336,"text":"那再來齁,我請衛福部,你們請回。我等一下啊,一分鐘。那我想齁,在上週六,民團上凱道集會遊行,您知道吧?那當然政府提出"},{"start":350.613,"end":374.75,"text":"應成立兒少權益辦公室。據本席瞭解,行政院已經在103年就設置行政院兒童及少年福利與權益推動小組,在蔡政府任內由林萬義政務委員擔任召集人,到現在已經將近8年召開24次會議。您覺得專案辦公室與專案推動小組的功能有沒有不一樣?"},{"start":378.375,"end":394.463,"text":"應該以現在的這個機制在做推動的話,也沒有什麼自愛難行的啦。所以部長覺得說這樣子是好的?但為什麼大家都感覺不到它的存在,才會提這個案子啊?"},{"start":395.965,"end":424.037,"text":"這部分的話大概如果要在行政院再成立一個辦公室的話那第一個就是他會有跌創家屋的問題還有齁那我覺得啦齁我覺得就是這個部分呢應該再加強齁然後加強來表就是運作齁然後我們推動小組至今都沒有和數位發展部這邊來請他們來參與齁這部分您覺得有沒有必要提出來?"},{"start":424.779,"end":446.513,"text":"這一次會增加啦我希望部長趕快把這個雖然520要到了那很多事情我覺得還是我們當一天和尚念一天經那還有最後我也看到說我們衛福部的討論提案的次數在這麼多年來只有一次而且是110年4月20號的事情"},{"start":450.135,"end":474.808,"text":"內容是針對兒童死因分析的協調。那這部長,這是不是表示我們衛福部推動兒童權益保障做得很好,還是幾乎沒有做?這跟我們報告,事實上大部分我們都是用一個報告案的方式去提的。那在這個小組裡面的委員,有一些是民間來的專家代表,提案大部分是由他們來提。"},{"start":476.735,"end":483.483,"text":"時間也到了,也不耽誤大家時間,請部長真的把這個事情當作認真一點,把它好好的來執行貫徹好不好?好,謝謝。"}]}}}}