{"id":151865,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151865","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e90f54132b1096e671526c684e582626054712d423581dcc3cba397b1f8b3c9c798c8af07a2370ec5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅廷瑋","委員發言時間":"11:36:01 - 11:46:46","影片長度":"00:10:45","會議時間":"2024-04-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請文化部、教育部、內政部、法務部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部及行政院主計總處列席就「表演及運動賽事黃牛票氾濫，相關單位取締、防範及執法成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢。（4月29日及5月2日二天一次會））","date":"2024-04-29","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-10"},"duration":645,"end_time":"2024-04-29T11:46:46+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-29T11:36:01+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":779,"blocks":[["羅委員廷瑋：（11時36分）好，謝謝主席。主席，麻煩請王政次，還有數發部的林副署長、刑事局的林明佐警政監。"],["主席：我們請文化，還有數位，還有警政署，謝謝。"],["羅委員廷瑋：今天非常感謝召委排這樣一個案子，我覺得召委你一定很接地氣，要不然就是你可能沒有買到張學友的演唱會門票，我也是受害者之一啦，但是我講真的，我們接到太多太多的陳情案件，所以對於召委這樣子排案，我感到非常非常地感謝。文化部在2023年三讀通過文化創意產業發展法，目的就是為了嚇止黃牛的不肖行為，但是實施之後到底有沒有改善黃牛的問題？次長，你說大概有兩千多件的檢舉案件，對吧？"],["王次長時思：檢舉案，是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：目前我想跟你請問一下，2023年三讀通過的文創法，到現在你覺得改善黃牛這件事情，1到100分，你覺得改善有打幾分？"],["王次長時思：我想在整體黃牛的量，尤其是規模化的經營的確有減少，但是仍然有黃牛的存在，這一點是不足的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以您覺得幾分？"],["王次長時思：我想分數應該是由委員來打。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，我個人覺得啦！看到這一個書面報告大概6頁左右，還含前言，對於黃牛嚇止相關的作為，只有6頁來寫這件事情，我覺得是不盡滿意啦，到底次長有沒有覺得說我們的黃牛氾濫到什麼程度？我想前面很多委員應該都有提供一些案例，我自己也要提供啦，但是今天我要另外跟大家討論的是，黃牛票最主要有三個面向，想跟現場三位來做討論。第一個是法規面，賣黃牛票究竟違反什麼法？是社維法、文創法還是刑法？當然，第一個案例大家都在說，竹科工程師自行撰寫電腦搶票的程式，搶票機器人上傳網路免費供人下載搶購演唱會等門票，5、6秒鐘可以買到1張，被依文創法來法辦。第二個案例，臺北大巨蛋的運動賽事門票黃牛票被以社維法來法辦，第三個案例，用虛擬身分來訂票被依偽造文書來法辦。次長，請問你怎麼看國內有這麼多關於賣黃牛票的法規？"],["王次長時思：跟委員說明，因為行為的本身有很多不同的面向，但它所找到的可以掌握的證據，跟可以裁罰的工具有不同，所以它在法律的適用上可能會有不同的差異，但關鍵仍然是將這一類行為繩之以法。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，但是我想……我覺得你的回答都蠻厲害的，透過直播，我想民眾會看到你的說法，會覺得好像我們的政府真的有做事，但是我們現在看到的問題就是黃牛票還是層出不窮，黃牛票還是道高一尺、魔高一丈，我們看到藝文的表演票券，主要是用文創法，現在在進行的處罰，次長，文創法的第一條規定：「為促進文化創意產業之發展，建構具有豐富文化及創意內涵之社會環境，運用科技與創新研發，健全文化創意產業人才培育，並積極開發國內外市場，特制定本法。」看起來文創法當初在特設計上就是比較正面的、全面性的事務。在文創法第十條之一，我們上面販賣黃牛票的形式要件會不會怪怪的？當初怎麼會想說放在這裡？"],["王次長時思：跟委員說明，的確文創法是一個促進法，比較不是一個禁制法，但是當時主要是因為黃牛的問題，實在是讓整體的社會非常關注，所以文化部就負起這個責任，把黃牛……大概相關唯一能適用就是文創法，因為它畢竟跟文藝票券的市場有關，所以我們就把它放在文創法，我也有說明，如果我們在整體的黃牛票……因為黃牛票其實不是只有藝文演出的票券，如果能夠有一些整體的規範，我們其實是非常樂於配合的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以我說你的回應都很厲害，看起來文化部願意擔起責任去協助，但是我看了當初的文創法第十條之一立法說明提及社會秩序維護法罰則過輕，請問社維法罰則過輕為什麼要修文創法，而不是修社維法？當然，你會跟我講這不是文化部的管轄，你能夠負起責任，所以你去修了文創法，但是我就想，文化部報告第3頁講文化部收受之加價轉售檢舉案共2,105件，檢舉案中，資料完備可進行調查609件，已交由地方政府進行調查，其中300件已處理完竣，309件調查中，完成率約五成，次長，因為文化部收到檢舉最後還需要交給地方政府進行調查，來進行裁罰，但是我們如果看到地方政府消極應對怎麼辦？"],["王次長時思：我們的確需要努力跟地方政府來做協談跟配合，所以我們有說明會跟教育訓練，我理解委員覺得現在做得不夠，這也是我們做得不夠的地方。"],["羅委員廷瑋：剛剛包括葉元之委員在講的，有些是個資取得不易，還有地方政府的積極度有問題，我想都有啦！我不要只幫地方政府講話，好不好？我都納入，取得不易、還有消極面對都有可能，但我們看到目前法規的機制是否足夠因應層出不窮的黃牛票，在國內對黃牛票有不同法規來處置，這部分需不需要統一一個法律來做標準？我想剛剛你有回應啦！你再回應一次，好不好？你認定、你覺不覺得需要專法或專章？"],["王次長時思：其實站在文化部的立場，如果能有一個專法來集中解釋所有各種類型的黃牛票跟他們的行為，不管是行政裁罰或者是刑事裁罰，我想會是一個比較完善的規範。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我想你剛剛也有做表態，我們也希望未來有這個專法專章，在日本，我想很多人都在講日本、韓國都有給你做相關的一個，有抽選制的或者是他們有立專法專章，我們更希望跨部會來面對這個問題，我們一起來處理這件事情，包括我也有準備幾個PowerPoint，給大家看一下這幾個案例，你看螢幕最左邊，他是一個肺癌四期的張學友的歌迷，他說因為沒辦法跟你們搶票，他想應該也是搶不到，當然他這一篇文章在講的是他沒有病房，也搶不到票，希望大家能夠讓票，他想買一張張學友的演唱會門票竟然要透過拜託、施捨，這真的是讓我們感到非常地悲哀。","第二個，臺下最大的觀眾是黃牛，他透過AI製圖，還放了一隻牛在裡面，我想這個部分讓我們一再知道，到底現在黃牛的相關產業有多蓬勃發展，我們民眾對於現在的黃牛到底有沒有根絕，我想我自己評分一定是不及格，但是如果用民眾的角度來評分，我想民眾可能會給予零分，但是我現在不只是要苛責現在文化部的政次，我希望的是我們積極面對處理這個問題，而不只是一再地批評、攻擊，我們希望處理，你看到現在最右邊這個，有多少人在上面寫800加代購費，這有沒有符合黃牛票的定義？"],["王次長時思：我有說明代購費要透過個案來認定，如果是必要性花費，而且是由第三方來收受，譬如像郵資、交通，這個才能稱之為代購，而且他必須有事先的約定，但如果超出這個範圍，他仍然不是代購，仍然觸犯這條法律。"],["羅委員廷瑋：那你認為代購費有沒有一個標準？他如果郵資可能花幾百塊、幾千塊。"],["王次長時思：這在當時立法的時候，其實文化部是提出了百分之十的標準。"],["羅委員廷瑋：百分之十？"],["王次長時思：當時，但是被刪除了，因為社會不能接受，所以我們就刪除了，在公告的時候。"],["羅委員廷瑋：你寫百分之十啦！"],["王次長時思：當時。"],["羅委員廷瑋：沒關係，但我要跟你講，就是我們所看到的，有3,800的門票外面就是賣1萬啦！"],["王次長時思：那個就算是高價。"],["羅委員廷瑋：這有非常多的相關案例，我想到底要不要加強取締？可不可以狠狠地取締一年，我們再來看看重重地罰還會不會有黃牛？這是我們目前希望的，我想這個部分，我希望……今天把另外兩位都叫上來，請問數發部有沒有辦法從源頭去介入？以及我們的警察機關能不能從社維法，我自己提了一個版本，希望社維法能夠加重，但是警察機關這樣子的相關設定，能不能有更好的法律出來，這是我們未來希望能夠看到的，而不是都只是看到立法委員積極地希望能夠來修法，但是卻看不到我們的行政機關有實際的作為。第三個面向，文化部有沒有獎勵實名制？"],["王次長時思：有，有補助方案。"],["羅委員廷瑋：現在有獎勵嘛？對不對？"],["王次長時思：有。"],["羅委員廷瑋：但是實名制對於防制黃牛到底有沒有效？我們要不要來探討這個問題？我們已經有這樣子的獎勵機制，但是完全沒有效果的話，那這個獎勵到底有沒有效？"],["王次長時思：我想實名制能夠有效來禁止黃牛這件事情應該可以從市場看得出來，像現在看到張學友演唱會就沒有採用實名制，所以黃牛其實才會這麼嚴重，如果有採用實名制的，其實黃牛就不會這麼猖獗。"],["羅委員廷瑋：最後我想要請求，本席覺得實名制有處理一部分的問題，但是大部分的問題也不一定能夠靠實名制處理，而且成本會大增，主辦單位會大增相關的人事成本之外，觀眾的成本也會增加，觀眾是不是會覺得消費體驗變爛，這個部分是不是未來有機會，如果你要推實名制，我們是願意樂觀其成，但是能不能跟產業有更多的配套把它做好，能不能再去邀集產業來做相關的溝通、處理，我們來朝向實名制的部分，這個部分我覺得可以。"],["王次長時思：可以，可以來做。"],["羅委員廷瑋：但是希望你能夠辦實際的相關產業說明。"],["王次長時思：我們其實都有在跟各大平台的主辦單位談。"],["羅委員廷瑋：繼續努力，好不好？"],["王次長時思：可以。"],["羅委員廷瑋：看到效果才是重點。"],["王次長時思：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝兩位，謝謝羅委員。接下來我們來處理臨時提案。請宣讀。","有鑑於本次113全中運辦理過程中，於游泳項目傳出選手因熱身時跳水致禁賽一年爭議，雖已依相關技術手冊與競賽規程現場取消參賽資格，然規程修正與回應上，體育署仍多以「交由高中體總處理」「交由游泳協會討論」未見體育署作為主辦單位之高度與自覺。同時，體育署在相關新聞稿發布外，除未與當事人有過聯繫，另有關「場裁判宣告禁賽一年作法是否有違比例原則」、「大會發布新聞稿與事實顯有出入」等問題均未得到說明與處理。","爰此，請體育署於一個月內進行相關事件獨立調查，針對包含規程修正、申訴仲裁制度以及禮賓業務精進等業務向當事人及立法院教育與文化委員會提出書面報告。","提案人：陳培瑜　　郭昱晴　　吳沛憶　　"],["主席：請問陳委員有沒有意見？"],["陳委員培瑜：先讓體育署回應一下好了，我們有一些相關的想法需要討論，先請體育署回應，謝謝。"],["主席：來，鄭署長。"],["鄭署長世忠：主席、委員。體育署這邊建議是在第五條的最後面除未與當事人有過足夠聯繫」，這邊說明一下，因為我們當時現場其實是有代表體育署的競賽委員在現場，也把當事人教練找過來詳細地跟他說明，也有指導他可以怎麼做，在後續去爭取選手的權益，不代表體育署完全沒有作為。","也建議在第六行的地方「另有關現場裁判」加一個「現」字，在第七行的部分「等問題均未得到足夠說明與處理」，希望能夠把「足夠」這兩個字加進去。第二段的部分，在第一行是針對規程與技術手冊部分的修正，目前為止，其實真正的問題出現在技術手冊，但不是在規程，不過這一點我們還是不會做進一步的爭執，還是可以接受。第二行「申訴、審判、仲裁制度」希望能夠加上「審判」，那「仲裁」這兩個字眼，說實在「仲裁」的字眼不適用在這樣子的一個情況，他是arbitration，在這樣子的樣態是不適用的，但是這邊也尊重委員。我們是建議刪除「仲裁」兩個字會比較精準。後面這一段「等業務向當事人及立法院教育文化委員會提出書面報告」是不是能夠把「當事人及」這四個字予以刪除？以上報告。"],["主席：陳委員。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝署長、謝謝主席。大部分署長說的我們都可以接受改變，只有第一個，就是在第五行，沒有跟當事人有過足……我寫的是有過聯繫，署長是希望改成足夠聯繫嘛？那我這邊想要用一個情況來跟署長討論，假設我們有學生在學校受到不當的對待，學校一旦要開啟相關調查或是說明，一定會請當事人到場說明嘛！可是我發現好像在體育界裡面，比較慣常的是跟選手的教練做說明，可是這裡面當這個機制一再一再複製在很多體育事件的現場，其實它就忽略了青少年表意權這件事情。如果把表意權的概念拉進來看，教練雖然收到了剛剛署長所說的，不管是現場其他人的說明，可是當事人始終沒有辦法好好說明他的感受，或者是當他覺得教練告訴他的事情，他還有自己的想法想要回饋出來的時候，可是卻沒有體育署這邊的大人要聽。所以其他的修改我都可以接受，可是在跟當事人聯繫這件事情上，我還是要提出這麼堅定的看法，是因為我覺得在很多體育事件當中，確確實實都忽略了所謂的兒少表意權，而兒少表意權在目前行政院所有所屬的中央機構裡面，是非常非常重要的權利表彰，所以這個部分我比較堅持，謝謝。"],["主席：署長？"],["鄭署長世忠：沒有意見。"],["主席：所以當事人不用，你們這邊是OK的？"],["鄭署長世忠：一般我們過去是希望能夠在未成年的部分是先找教練過來，但是剛剛委員提到了兒少表意權，這一部分我們沒有意見，所以這部分我們尊重委員。"],["主席：好。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝署長、謝謝主席。"],["主席：好，那你就跟委員溝通好，這個臨時提案修正文字之後就通過。","我們繼續開會，接下來請黃珊珊委員，質詢時間4分鐘，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":310,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-10","speakers":["柯志恩","萬美玲","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","葛如鈞","葉元之","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","范雲","張雅琳","吳春城","羅廷瑋","黃珊珊","黃捷","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","邱志偉","張啓楷","羅智強","林倩綺","林楚茵","劉建國"],"page_start":243,"meetingDate":["2024-04-29"],"gazette_id":"1133901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133901_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請文化部、教育部、內政部、法務部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部及行政院主計總處列\n席就「表演及運動賽事黃牛票氾濫，相關單位取締、防範及執法成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1133901_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"151865","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151865","tool":"pyannote","id":"151865-pyannote"},"job_id":"a8BQ8vAwWzVpoKQI","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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0.996}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 243.017, \"end\": 243.037, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}]}, {\"start\": 244.398, \"end\": 268.412, \"text\": \"實在是讓整體的社會非常關注所以文化部就負起這個責任把黃牛那大概相關唯一能適用的就是文創法因為它畢竟跟演藝票券的文藝票券的市場有關所以我們就把它放在文創法那我也有說明就是說如果我們在整體的黃牛票因為黃牛票其實不只有藝人藝文演出的票券如果能夠有一些整體的規範我們其實是非常樂於配合的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 244.398, \"end\": 244.618, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 244.618, \"end\": 245.079, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 245.079, \"end\": 245.419, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 245.419, \"end\": 245.559, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"社\", \"start\": 245.559, \"end\": 245.939, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 245.939, \"end\": 246.059, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 246.059, \"end\": 246.459, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"注\", \"start\": 246.459, \"end\": 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\"start\": 549.628, \"end\": 549.728, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 549.728, \"end\": 549.949, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 549.949, \"end\": 550.529, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 550.529, \"end\": 550.709, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 550.709, \"end\": 550.73, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 552.051, \"end\": 552.792, \"text\": \"第3個面向,文化部有沒有獎勵實名制?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 552.051, \"end\": 552.151, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 552.151, \"end\": 552.171, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"向\", \"start\": 552.171, \"end\": 552.191, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 552.191, \"end\": 552.211, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 552.211, \"end\": 552.231, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 552.231, \"end\": 552.291, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 552.291, \"end\": 552.332, \"score\": 0.482}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 552.332, \"end\": 552.472, \"score\": 0.771}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 552.472, \"end\": 552.612, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"獎\"}, {\"word\": \"勵\"}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 552.612, \"end\": 552.772, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 552.772, \"end\": 552.792, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 568.601, \"end\": 596.001, \"text\": \"有補助方案現在有獎勵嘛對不對但是實名制對於黃牛防治到底有沒有效我們要不要來探討這個問題我們已經有這樣子的一個獎勵機制但是我們看到完全沒有效果的話那這個獎勵到底有沒有效我想實名制是能夠有效來禁止黃牛這件事情應該可以從市場看得出來像現在看到張學遠唱會他就沒有採用實名制所以黃牛其實才會這麼嚴重如果有採用實名制的其實黃牛就不會這麼\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 568.601, \"end\": 569.141, \"score\": 0.779}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 569.141, \"end\": 569.322, \"score\": 0.787}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 569.322, \"end\": 569.462, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 569.462, \"end\": 570.122, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 570.122, \"end\": 570.242, \"score\": 0.673}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 570.242, \"end\": 570.743, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"獎\"}, {\"word\": \"勵\"}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 570.743, \"end\": 571.043, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 571.043, \"end\": 571.583, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 571.583, \"end\": 571.823, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 571.823, \"end\": 571.943, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 571.943, \"end\": 572.104, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 572.104, \"end\": 572.604, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 572.604, \"end\": 572.884, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"牛\", \"start\": 572.884, \"end\": 573.384, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 573.384, \"end\": 573.645, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"治\", 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\"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 579.709, \"end\": 579.929, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 579.929, \"end\": 580.129, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 580.129, \"end\": 580.269, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 580.269, \"end\": 580.389, \"score\": 0.67}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 580.389, \"end\": 580.51, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"效\", \"start\": 580.51, \"end\": 580.73, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 580.73, \"end\": 580.87, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 580.87, \"end\": 581.27, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 581.27, \"end\": 582.111, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"獎\"}, {\"word\": \"勵\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 582.111, \"end\": 582.311, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 582.311, \"end\": 582.531, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 582.531, \"end\": 582.691, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 582.691, \"end\": 582.811, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 582.811, \"end\": 582.951, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"效\", \"start\": 582.951, \"end\": 583.291, \"score\": 0.787}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 583.291, \"end\": 583.392, \"score\": 0.736}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 583.392, \"end\": 583.812, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 583.812, \"end\": 584.032, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 584.032, \"end\": 584.592, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 584.592, \"end\": 584.833, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 584.833, \"end\": 585.113, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 585.113, \"end\": 585.293, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"效\", \"start\": 585.293, \"end\": 586.073, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"禁\", \"start\": 586.073, \"end\": 586.254, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"止\", \"start\": 586.254, \"end\": 586.554, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"牛\", \"start\": 586.554, \"end\": 586.794, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 586.794, \"end\": 586.974, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 586.974, \"end\": 587.094, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 587.094, \"end\": 587.474, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 587.474, \"end\": 587.575, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 587.575, \"end\": 587.895, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 587.895, \"end\": 588.215, \"score\": 0.743}, {\"word\": \"場\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 588.215, \"end\": 588.355, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 588.355, \"end\": 588.455, \"score\": 0.709}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 588.455, \"end\": 589.016, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 589.016, \"end\": 589.316, \"score\": 0.726}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 589.316, \"end\": 589.456, \"score\": 0.742}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 589.456, \"end\": 589.616, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 589.616, \"end\": 589.776, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 589.776, \"end\": 590.236, \"score\": 0.786}, {\"word\": \"遠\"}, {\"word\": \"唱\", \"start\": 590.236, \"end\": 590.517, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 590.517, \"end\": 590.657, \"score\": 0.686}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 590.657, \"end\": 590.777, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 590.777, \"end\": 590.897, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 590.897, \"end\": 591.177, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"採\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 591.177, \"end\": 591.477, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 591.477, \"end\": 591.677, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 591.677, \"end\": 592.078, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 592.078, \"end\": 592.298, \"score\": 0.775}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 592.298, \"end\": 592.478, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"牛\", \"start\": 592.478, \"end\": 592.658, \"score\": 0.775}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 592.658, \"end\": 592.898, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 592.898, \"end\": 593.539, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"嚴\"}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 593.539, \"end\": 594.019, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 594.019, \"end\": 594.119, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 594.119, \"end\": 594.199, \"score\": 0.706}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 594.199, \"end\": 594.439, \"score\": 0.643}, {\"word\": \"採\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 594.439, \"end\": 594.76, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 594.76, \"end\": 594.94, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 594.94, \"end\": 595.06, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 595.06, \"end\": 595.28, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 595.28, \"end\": 595.68, \"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"牛\", \"start\": 595.68, \"end\": 595.82, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 595.82, \"end\": 595.981, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 595.981, \"end\": 596.001, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}]}, {\"start\": 596.921, \"end\": 611.483, \"text\": \"最後我想要請求本席覺得實名制我覺得有處理一部分的問題但是有大部分的問題也不一定實名制能夠處理而且成本會大增主辦單位會大增這個相關的成本人事之外\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 596.921, \"end\": 597.062, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 597.062, \"end\": 597.182, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 597.182, \"end\": 597.322, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 597.322, \"end\": 597.502, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 597.502, \"end\": 597.883, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"求\", \"start\": 597.883, \"end\": 599.245, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 599.245, \"end\": 599.385, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 599.385, \"end\": 599.645, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 599.645, \"end\": 599.966, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 599.966, \"end\": 600.186, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 600.186, \"end\": 600.627, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 600.627, \"end\": 601.168, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 601.168, \"end\": 601.328, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 601.328, \"end\": 601.808, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 601.808, \"end\": 601.989, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 601.989, \"end\": 602.129, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 602.129, \"end\": 602.309, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 602.309, \"end\": 602.449, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 602.449, \"end\": 602.89, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 602.89, \"end\": 603.03, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 603.03, \"end\": 603.17, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 603.17, \"end\": 603.431, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 603.431, \"end\": 603.711, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 603.711, \"end\": 603.851, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 603.851, \"end\": 603.992, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 603.992, \"end\": 604.532, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 604.532, \"end\": 604.693, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 604.693, \"end\": 604.793, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 604.793, \"end\": 604.853, \"score\": 0.662}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 604.853, \"end\": 605.213, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 605.213, \"end\": 605.394, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 605.394, \"end\": 605.534, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 605.534, \"end\": 606.015, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 606.015, \"end\": 606.355, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 606.355, \"end\": 606.455, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"且\", \"start\": 606.455, \"end\": 606.555, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 606.555, \"end\": 606.716, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 606.716, \"end\": 606.976, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 606.976, \"end\": 607.176, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"增\", \"start\": 607.176, \"end\": 607.797, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 607.797, \"end\": 608.318, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 608.318, \"end\": 609.54, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 609.54, \"end\": 609.74, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"增\", \"start\": 609.74, \"end\": 610.101, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 610.101, \"end\": 610.381, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 610.381, \"end\": 610.481, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 610.481, \"end\": 610.661, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 610.661, \"end\": 610.822, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 610.822, \"end\": 611.042, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 611.042, \"end\": 611.262, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 611.262, \"end\": 611.463, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 611.463, \"end\": 611.483, \"score\": 1.0}]}, {\"start\": 612.283, \"end\": 637.17, \"text\": 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\"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"效\", \"start\": 642.299, \"end\": 642.501, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 642.501, \"end\": 642.642, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 642.642, \"end\": 642.743, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 642.743, \"end\": 642.864, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 642.864, \"end\": 643.045, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 643.045, \"end\": 643.065, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,612 --> 00:00:16,622\n好,謝謝主席,主席麻煩請這個王政次還有速發部的林副署長,行事局的林明佐警政監好,我們請文化還有數位還有警政署,謝謝\n\n2\n00:00:18,820 --> 00:00:44,626\n今天非常感謝昭緯排這樣子的一個案子我覺得昭緯你一定很接地氣要不然就是你可能沒有買到張學友的演唱會門票我也是受害者之一但是我講真的我們接到太多太多的陳情案件所以對於昭緯這樣子排案我感到非常非常的感謝那文化部在2023年三讀通過《文化創意產業發展法》\n\n3\n00:00:45,506 --> 00:01:09,578\n目的就是為了嚇死黃牛的不肖行為但是實施之後到底有沒有改善黃牛的問題次長你說大概有兩千多件的一個檢舉案件對吧檢舉案是那目前我想跟您請問一下就是2023年三讀通過的這個文創法到現在你覺得改善黃牛這件事情1到100分你覺得改善有打幾分\n\n4\n00:01:10,816 --> 00:01:21,542\n我想在整體的黃牛的量尤其是規模化的進行的是的確有減少但是仍然有黃牛的存在這一點是不足的所以您覺得幾分我想分數應該是委員來打\n\n5\n00:01:23,368 --> 00:01:50,020\n我個人覺得看到這一個書面報告大概六頁啦六頁左右還含前言對於黃牛法對於黃牛的這個賀旨相關的一個作為只有六頁來寫這件事情我覺得是不盡滿意那到底次長有沒有覺得說我們的黃牛氾濫到了什麼程度待會我想很多前面的委員應該都有提供一些案例但是我自己也要提供\n\n6\n00:01:50,720 --> 00:02:06,306\n但是我想今天我要另外跟大家討論的是黃牛法黃牛票最主要有三個面向跟三位現場的三位來做討論第一個法規面賣黃牛票究竟違反什麼法是色違法、文創法還是刑法\n\n7\n00:02:06,986 --> 00:02:29,387\n我們當然第一個案例大家都在說竹科工程師自行撰寫這個電腦搶票的程式搶票機器人上傳網路免費工人下載搶購演唱會等門票五六秒鐘可以買到一張被依文創法來法辦第二個案例臺北大巨蛋的運動賽事門票黃牛票被依社委法來法辦\n\n8\n00:02:31,129 --> 00:02:59,526\n第3個案例用虛擬身份來定票被依偽造為輸來法辦次長請問你怎麼看國內有這麼多關於賣黃牛票的法規跟委員說明那因為行為的本身有很多不同的面向但他所找到的可以掌握的證據跟可以裁罰的工具有不同所以他在法律的適用上可能會有不同的差異但關鍵仍然是將這一類的行為繩之以法\n\n9\n00:03:00,146 --> 00:03:02,748\n黃牛票還是層出不窮黃牛票還是道高一尺魔高一丈我們看到藝文的這個表演啊票卷主要是用文創法\n\n10\n00:03:21,363 --> 00:03:45,719\n那現在在進行的一個處罰施展文創法的第一條規定為促進文化創意產業之發展建構具有豐富的文化及創意內涵的社會環境運用科技及創研發展健全文化創意產業人才的培育並積極開發國內外市場特制定本法看起來文創法當初在特設計上就是比較正面的\n\n11\n00:03:47,561 --> 00:04:03,037\n在文創法第十之一條我們上面販賣黃牛票的形式要件會不會怪怪的當初怎麼會想說放在這裡跟委員說明的確文創法是一個促進法比較不是一個禁制法但是當時主要是因為黃牛的問題\n\n12\n00:04:04,398 --> 00:04:28,412\n實在是讓整體的社會非常關注所以文化部就負起這個責任把黃牛那大概相關唯一能適用的就是文創法因為它畢竟跟演藝票券的文藝票券的市場有關所以我們就把它放在文創法那我也有說明就是說如果我們在整體的黃牛票因為黃牛票其實不只有藝人藝文演出的票券如果能夠有一些整體的規範我們其實是非常樂於配合的\n\n13\n00:04:28,692 --> 00:04:47,825\n所以我說你的回應都很厲害看起來就是文化部願意擔起責任去協助但是我看了當初的文創法第十之一條立法說明提及社會秩序違附法法則過輕請問社違法法則過輕為什麼要修文創法而不是修社違法\n\n14\n00:04:48,565 --> 00:05:04,915\n當然你會跟我講嘛就是文化部這不是你的管轄啊你能夠負起的責任所以你去修了這個文創法但是我就想啊文化部報告第三頁講文化部收售之加價轉售檢舉案共2105件檢舉案中資料完備可進行調查609件已交由地方政府進行調查其中300件已處理完均309件調查中完成率約五成次長\n\n15\n00:05:14,901 --> 00:05:39,643\n因為文化部收到檢舉後最後還需要交給地方政府進行調查來進行裁罰但是我們看到如果地方政府消極應對怎麼辦我們的確需要努力跟地方政府來做協談跟配合所以我們有說明會跟教育訓練那但是我理解委員覺得現在做得不夠那也是我們做得不夠的地方剛剛包括葉元之委員在講的有些是各自取得不義然後還有\n\n16\n00:05:41,323 --> 00:06:06,568\n地方政府的積極度有問題我想都有啦我不要只幫地方政府講話好不好我都納入取得不易還有消極面對都有可能但現在就是我們看到目前法規的機制是否能夠足夠因應層出不窮的黃牛票在國內對黃牛票的有不同法規來處置這部分需不需要統一一個法律來做一個標準我想剛剛你有回應再回應一次好不好你認定\n\n17\n00:06:07,648 --> 00:06:23,077\n你覺不覺得需要專法或專章?其實我會站在文化部的立場如果能有一個專法來集中解釋所有各種類型的黃牛票跟他們的行為不管是行政裁罰或者是刑事裁罰我想會是一個比較完善的規範\n\n18\n00:06:23,888 --> 00:06:45,848\n我想你剛剛也有做表態那我們也希望未來有這個專法專章在日本我想很多人都在講日本韓國都有給你做相關的一個有抽選制的阿或者是他們有立專法專章我們更希望跨部會來面對這個問題我們一起來把這個事情來處理我想包括我也有準備幾個拋破引給大家看一下這幾個案例\n\n19\n00:06:46,969 --> 00:07:06,558\n你看我的螢幕最左邊我是一個肺癌士氣張學友的歌迷因為沒辦法跟你們搶票我想應該也是搶不到當然他這篇文章在講的是他沒有病房也搶不到票希望大家能夠讓票我想買一張張學友的演唱會門票竟然要透過拜託施捨\n\n20\n00:07:08,679 --> 00:07:37,038\n這真的是讓我們感到非常的悲哀第二個台下最大的觀眾是黃牛他透過AI制圖還放了一隻牛在裡面我想這個部分讓我們一再顯示到我們到底現在的黃牛的這個相關產業有多蓬勃發展我們到底現在民眾對於現在的黃牛有沒有根絕我想我自己評分我一定是不及格但是如果用民眾的角度來評分我想民眾可能會給予0分\n\n21\n00:07:38,899 --> 00:07:55,010\n但是我現在不只是要苛責我們現在的政治文化部我希望的是我們積極面對處理這個問題而不是一再的只是批評攻擊我們希望處理你看到現在最右邊這個有多少人在上面寫我們800家代購費\n\n22\n00:07:57,020 --> 00:08:15,016\n這有沒有符合黃牛票的定義?我有說明代購費要透過個案來認定．如果它是必要性花費．而且是由第三方來收受．譬如像遊資、交通．這個才能稱之為代購．而且它必須有事先的約定．但如果超出這個範圍．它仍然不是代購．仍然觸犯這條法律\n\n23\n00:08:15,416 --> 00:08:38,199\n那你認為代購費有沒有一個標準他如果油資可能花幾百塊幾千塊這在當時立法的時候其實文化部是提出了10%的標準10%當時但是被刪除了因為社會不能接受所以我們就刪除了你寫10%沒關係但我要跟你講就是我們所看到的有的3800的門票外面就是賣一萬了\n\n24\n00:08:40,856 --> 00:08:55,591\n這是非常多的這樣子的相關案例我想到底要不要加強取締有沒有可不可以能夠狠狠的取締一年我們再來看看重重的罰看看還會不會有黃牛這是我們現在目前希望的我想這個部分我希望\n\n25\n00:08:56,272 --> 00:09:10,730\n今天會把另外兩位都叫上來我覺得訴發部有沒有辦法從源頭去介入那以及我們的警察機關能不能從社委法我自己提了一個版本希望社委法能夠加重但是警察機關這樣子的一個相關設定\n\n26\n00:09:12,051 --> 00:09:12,792\n第3個面向,文化部有沒有獎勵實名制?\n\n27\n00:09:28,601 --> 00:09:56,001\n有補助方案現在有獎勵嘛對不對但是實名制對於黃牛防治到底有沒有效我們要不要來探討這個問題我們已經有這樣子的一個獎勵機制但是我們看到完全沒有效果的話那這個獎勵到底有沒有效我想實名制是能夠有效來禁止黃牛這件事情應該可以從市場看得出來像現在看到張學遠唱會他就沒有採用實名制所以黃牛其實才會這麼嚴重如果有採用實名制的其實黃牛就不會這麼\n\n28\n00:09:56,921 --> 00:10:11,483\n最後我想要請求本席覺得實名制我覺得有處理一部分的問題但是有大部分的問題也不一定實名制能夠處理而且成本會大增主辦單位會大增這個相關的成本人事之外\n\n29\n00:10:12,283 --> 00:10:37,170\n觀眾的成本也會增加觀眾是不是會覺得這個消費體驗會變爛這個部分是不是未來有機會如果你要推實名制我們是願意樂觀其成但是能不能跟產業有更多的配套把它做好能不能再去邀集產業來做相關的溝通來做處理我們來做這個實名制的部分來朝向這個部分我覺得可以但是希望你能夠辦實際的相關的產業說明繼續努力\n\n30\n00:10:41,291 --> 00:10:43,065\n好不好看到效果才是重點謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3612\t16622\t好,謝謝主席,主席麻煩請這個王政次還有速發部的林副署長,行事局的林明佐警政監好,我們請文化還有數位還有警政署,謝謝\n18820\t44626\t今天非常感謝昭緯排這樣子的一個案子我覺得昭緯你一定很接地氣要不然就是你可能沒有買到張學友的演唱會門票我也是受害者之一但是我講真的我們接到太多太多的陳情案件所以對於昭緯這樣子排案我感到非常非常的感謝那文化部在2023年三讀通過《文化創意產業發展法》\n45506\t69578\t目的就是為了嚇死黃牛的不肖行為但是實施之後到底有沒有改善黃牛的問題次長你說大概有兩千多件的一個檢舉案件對吧檢舉案是那目前我想跟您請問一下就是2023年三讀通過的這個文創法到現在你覺得改善黃牛這件事情1到100分你覺得改善有打幾分\n70816\t81542\t我想在整體的黃牛的量尤其是規模化的進行的是的確有減少但是仍然有黃牛的存在這一點是不足的所以您覺得幾分我想分數應該是委員來打\n83368\t110020\t我個人覺得看到這一個書面報告大概六頁啦六頁左右還含前言對於黃牛法對於黃牛的這個賀旨相關的一個作為只有六頁來寫這件事情我覺得是不盡滿意那到底次長有沒有覺得說我們的黃牛氾濫到了什麼程度待會我想很多前面的委員應該都有提供一些案例但是我自己也要提供\n110720\t126306\t但是我想今天我要另外跟大家討論的是黃牛法黃牛票最主要有三個面向跟三位現場的三位來做討論第一個法規面賣黃牛票究竟違反什麼法是色違法、文創法還是刑法\n126986\t149387\t我們當然第一個案例大家都在說竹科工程師自行撰寫這個電腦搶票的程式搶票機器人上傳網路免費工人下載搶購演唱會等門票五六秒鐘可以買到一張被依文創法來法辦第二個案例臺北大巨蛋的運動賽事門票黃牛票被依社委法來法辦\n151129\t179526\t第3個案例用虛擬身份來定票被依偽造為輸來法辦次長請問你怎麼看國內有這麼多關於賣黃牛票的法規跟委員說明那因為行為的本身有很多不同的面向但他所找到的可以掌握的證據跟可以裁罰的工具有不同所以他在法律的適用上可能會有不同的差異但關鍵仍然是將這一類的行為繩之以法\n180146\t182748\t黃牛票還是層出不窮黃牛票還是道高一尺魔高一丈我們看到藝文的這個表演啊票卷主要是用文創法\n201363\t225719\t那現在在進行的一個處罰施展文創法的第一條規定為促進文化創意產業之發展建構具有豐富的文化及創意內涵的社會環境運用科技及創研發展健全文化創意產業人才的培育並積極開發國內外市場特制定本法看起來文創法當初在特設計上就是比較正面的\n227561\t243037\t在文創法第十之一條我們上面販賣黃牛票的形式要件會不會怪怪的當初怎麼會想說放在這裡跟委員說明的確文創法是一個促進法比較不是一個禁制法但是當時主要是因為黃牛的問題\n244398\t268412\t實在是讓整體的社會非常關注所以文化部就負起這個責任把黃牛那大概相關唯一能適用的就是文創法因為它畢竟跟演藝票券的文藝票券的市場有關所以我們就把它放在文創法那我也有說明就是說如果我們在整體的黃牛票因為黃牛票其實不只有藝人藝文演出的票券如果能夠有一些整體的規範我們其實是非常樂於配合的\n268692\t287825\t所以我說你的回應都很厲害看起來就是文化部願意擔起責任去協助但是我看了當初的文創法第十之一條立法說明提及社會秩序違附法法則過輕請問社違法法則過輕為什麼要修文創法而不是修社違法\n288565\t304915\t當然你會跟我講嘛就是文化部這不是你的管轄啊你能夠負起的責任所以你去修了這個文創法但是我就想啊文化部報告第三頁講文化部收售之加價轉售檢舉案共2105件檢舉案中資料完備可進行調查609件已交由地方政府進行調查其中300件已處理完均309件調查中完成率約五成次長\n314901\t339643\t因為文化部收到檢舉後最後還需要交給地方政府進行調查來進行裁罰但是我們看到如果地方政府消極應對怎麼辦我們的確需要努力跟地方政府來做協談跟配合所以我們有說明會跟教育訓練那但是我理解委員覺得現在做得不夠那也是我們做得不夠的地方剛剛包括葉元之委員在講的有些是各自取得不義然後還有\n341323\t366568\t地方政府的積極度有問題我想都有啦我不要只幫地方政府講話好不好我都納入取得不易還有消極面對都有可能但現在就是我們看到目前法規的機制是否能夠足夠因應層出不窮的黃牛票在國內對黃牛票的有不同法規來處置這部分需不需要統一一個法律來做一個標準我想剛剛你有回應再回應一次好不好你認定\n367648\t383077\t你覺不覺得需要專法或專章?其實我會站在文化部的立場如果能有一個專法來集中解釋所有各種類型的黃牛票跟他們的行為不管是行政裁罰或者是刑事裁罰我想會是一個比較完善的規範\n383888\t405848\t我想你剛剛也有做表態那我們也希望未來有這個專法專章在日本我想很多人都在講日本韓國都有給你做相關的一個有抽選制的阿或者是他們有立專法專章我們更希望跨部會來面對這個問題我們一起來把這個事情來處理我想包括我也有準備幾個拋破引給大家看一下這幾個案例\n406969\t426558\t你看我的螢幕最左邊我是一個肺癌士氣張學友的歌迷因為沒辦法跟你們搶票我想應該也是搶不到當然他這篇文章在講的是他沒有病房也搶不到票希望大家能夠讓票我想買一張張學友的演唱會門票竟然要透過拜託施捨\n428679\t457038\t這真的是讓我們感到非常的悲哀第二個台下最大的觀眾是黃牛他透過AI制圖還放了一隻牛在裡面我想這個部分讓我們一再顯示到我們到底現在的黃牛的這個相關產業有多蓬勃發展我們到底現在民眾對於現在的黃牛有沒有根絕我想我自己評分我一定是不及格但是如果用民眾的角度來評分我想民眾可能會給予0分\n458899\t475010\t但是我現在不只是要苛責我們現在的政治文化部我希望的是我們積極面對處理這個問題而不是一再的只是批評攻擊我們希望處理你看到現在最右邊這個有多少人在上面寫我們800家代購費\n477020\t495016\t這有沒有符合黃牛票的定義?我有說明代購費要透過個案來認定．如果它是必要性花費．而且是由第三方來收受．譬如像遊資、交通．這個才能稱之為代購．而且它必須有事先的約定．但如果超出這個範圍．它仍然不是代購．仍然觸犯這條法律\n495416\t518199\t那你認為代購費有沒有一個標準他如果油資可能花幾百塊幾千塊這在當時立法的時候其實文化部是提出了10%的標準10%當時但是被刪除了因為社會不能接受所以我們就刪除了你寫10%沒關係但我要跟你講就是我們所看到的有的3800的門票外面就是賣一萬了\n520856\t535591\t這是非常多的這樣子的相關案例我想到底要不要加強取締有沒有可不可以能夠狠狠的取締一年我們再來看看重重的罰看看還會不會有黃牛這是我們現在目前希望的我想這個部分我希望\n536272\t550730\t今天會把另外兩位都叫上來我覺得訴發部有沒有辦法從源頭去介入那以及我們的警察機關能不能從社委法我自己提了一個版本希望社委法能夠加重但是警察機關這樣子的一個相關設定\n552051\t552792\t第3個面向,文化部有沒有獎勵實名制?\n568601\t596001\t有補助方案現在有獎勵嘛對不對但是實名制對於黃牛防治到底有沒有效我們要不要來探討這個問題我們已經有這樣子的一個獎勵機制但是我們看到完全沒有效果的話那這個獎勵到底有沒有效我想實名制是能夠有效來禁止黃牛這件事情應該可以從市場看得出來像現在看到張學遠唱會他就沒有採用實名制所以黃牛其實才會這麼嚴重如果有採用實名制的其實黃牛就不會這麼\n596921\t611483\t最後我想要請求本席覺得實名制我覺得有處理一部分的問題但是有大部分的問題也不一定實名制能夠處理而且成本會大增主辦單位會大增這個相關的成本人事之外\n612283\t637170\t觀眾的成本也會增加觀眾是不是會覺得這個消費體驗會變爛這個部分是不是未來有機會如果你要推實名制我們是願意樂觀其成但是能不能跟產業有更多的配套把它做好能不能再去邀集產業來做相關的溝通來做處理我們來做這個實名制的部分來朝向這個部分我覺得可以但是希望你能夠辦實際的相關的產業說明繼續努力\n641291\t643065\t好不好 看到效果才是重點謝謝委員\n","txt":"好,謝謝主席,主席麻煩請這個王政次還有速發部的林副署長,行事局的林明佐警政監好,我們請文化還有數位還有警政署,謝謝\n今天非常感謝昭緯排這樣子的一個案子我覺得昭緯你一定很接地氣要不然就是你可能沒有買到張學友的演唱會門票我也是受害者之一但是我講真的我們接到太多太多的陳情案件所以對於昭緯這樣子排案我感到非常非常的感謝那文化部在2023年三讀通過《文化創意產業發展法》\n目的就是為了嚇死黃牛的不肖行為但是實施之後到底有沒有改善黃牛的問題次長你說大概有兩千多件的一個檢舉案件對吧檢舉案是那目前我想跟您請問一下就是2023年三讀通過的這個文創法到現在你覺得改善黃牛這件事情1到100分你覺得改善有打幾分\n我想在整體的黃牛的量尤其是規模化的進行的是的確有減少但是仍然有黃牛的存在這一點是不足的所以您覺得幾分我想分數應該是委員來打\n我個人覺得看到這一個書面報告大概六頁啦六頁左右還含前言對於黃牛法對於黃牛的這個賀旨相關的一個作為只有六頁來寫這件事情我覺得是不盡滿意那到底次長有沒有覺得說我們的黃牛氾濫到了什麼程度待會我想很多前面的委員應該都有提供一些案例但是我自己也要提供\n但是我想今天我要另外跟大家討論的是黃牛法黃牛票最主要有三個面向跟三位現場的三位來做討論第一個法規面賣黃牛票究竟違反什麼法是色違法、文創法還是刑法\n我們當然第一個案例大家都在說竹科工程師自行撰寫這個電腦搶票的程式搶票機器人上傳網路免費工人下載搶購演唱會等門票五六秒鐘可以買到一張被依文創法來法辦第二個案例臺北大巨蛋的運動賽事門票黃牛票被依社委法來法辦\n第3個案例用虛擬身份來定票被依偽造為輸來法辦次長請問你怎麼看國內有這麼多關於賣黃牛票的法規跟委員說明那因為行為的本身有很多不同的面向但他所找到的可以掌握的證據跟可以裁罰的工具有不同所以他在法律的適用上可能會有不同的差異但關鍵仍然是將這一類的行為繩之以法\n黃牛票還是層出不窮黃牛票還是道高一尺魔高一丈我們看到藝文的這個表演啊票卷主要是用文創法\n那現在在進行的一個處罰施展文創法的第一條規定為促進文化創意產業之發展建構具有豐富的文化及創意內涵的社會環境運用科技及創研發展健全文化創意產業人才的培育並積極開發國內外市場特制定本法看起來文創法當初在特設計上就是比較正面的\n在文創法第十之一條我們上面販賣黃牛票的形式要件會不會怪怪的當初怎麼會想說放在這裡跟委員說明的確文創法是一個促進法比較不是一個禁制法但是當時主要是因為黃牛的問題\n實在是讓整體的社會非常關注所以文化部就負起這個責任把黃牛那大概相關唯一能適用的就是文創法因為它畢竟跟演藝票券的文藝票券的市場有關所以我們就把它放在文創法那我也有說明就是說如果我們在整體的黃牛票因為黃牛票其實不只有藝人藝文演出的票券如果能夠有一些整體的規範我們其實是非常樂於配合的\n所以我說你的回應都很厲害看起來就是文化部願意擔起責任去協助但是我看了當初的文創法第十之一條立法說明提及社會秩序違附法法則過輕請問社違法法則過輕為什麼要修文創法而不是修社違法\n當然你會跟我講嘛就是文化部這不是你的管轄啊你能夠負起的責任所以你去修了這個文創法但是我就想啊文化部報告第三頁講文化部收售之加價轉售檢舉案共2105件檢舉案中資料完備可進行調查609件已交由地方政府進行調查其中300件已處理完均309件調查中完成率約五成次長\n因為文化部收到檢舉後最後還需要交給地方政府進行調查來進行裁罰但是我們看到如果地方政府消極應對怎麼辦我們的確需要努力跟地方政府來做協談跟配合所以我們有說明會跟教育訓練那但是我理解委員覺得現在做得不夠那也是我們做得不夠的地方剛剛包括葉元之委員在講的有些是各自取得不義然後還有\n地方政府的積極度有問題我想都有啦我不要只幫地方政府講話好不好我都納入取得不易還有消極面對都有可能但現在就是我們看到目前法規的機制是否能夠足夠因應層出不窮的黃牛票在國內對黃牛票的有不同法規來處置這部分需不需要統一一個法律來做一個標準我想剛剛你有回應再回應一次好不好你認定\n你覺不覺得需要專法或專章?其實我會站在文化部的立場如果能有一個專法來集中解釋所有各種類型的黃牛票跟他們的行為不管是行政裁罰或者是刑事裁罰我想會是一個比較完善的規範\n我想你剛剛也有做表態那我們也希望未來有這個專法專章在日本我想很多人都在講日本韓國都有給你做相關的一個有抽選制的阿或者是他們有立專法專章我們更希望跨部會來面對這個問題我們一起來把這個事情來處理我想包括我也有準備幾個拋破引給大家看一下這幾個案例\n你看我的螢幕最左邊我是一個肺癌士氣張學友的歌迷因為沒辦法跟你們搶票我想應該也是搶不到當然他這篇文章在講的是他沒有病房也搶不到票希望大家能夠讓票我想買一張張學友的演唱會門票竟然要透過拜託施捨\n這真的是讓我們感到非常的悲哀第二個台下最大的觀眾是黃牛他透過AI制圖還放了一隻牛在裡面我想這個部分讓我們一再顯示到我們到底現在的黃牛的這個相關產業有多蓬勃發展我們到底現在民眾對於現在的黃牛有沒有根絕我想我自己評分我一定是不及格但是如果用民眾的角度來評分我想民眾可能會給予0分\n但是我現在不只是要苛責我們現在的政治文化部我希望的是我們積極面對處理這個問題而不是一再的只是批評攻擊我們希望處理你看到現在最右邊這個有多少人在上面寫我們800家代購費\n這有沒有符合黃牛票的定義?我有說明代購費要透過個案來認定．如果它是必要性花費．而且是由第三方來收受．譬如像遊資、交通．這個才能稱之為代購．而且它必須有事先的約定．但如果超出這個範圍．它仍然不是代購．仍然觸犯這條法律\n那你認為代購費有沒有一個標準他如果油資可能花幾百塊幾千塊這在當時立法的時候其實文化部是提出了10%的標準10%當時但是被刪除了因為社會不能接受所以我們就刪除了你寫10%沒關係但我要跟你講就是我們所看到的有的3800的門票外面就是賣一萬了\n這是非常多的這樣子的相關案例我想到底要不要加強取締有沒有可不可以能夠狠狠的取締一年我們再來看看重重的罰看看還會不會有黃牛這是我們現在目前希望的我想這個部分我希望\n今天會把另外兩位都叫上來我覺得訴發部有沒有辦法從源頭去介入那以及我們的警察機關能不能從社委法我自己提了一個版本希望社委法能夠加重但是警察機關這樣子的一個相關設定\n第3個面向,文化部有沒有獎勵實名制?\n有補助方案現在有獎勵嘛對不對但是實名制對於黃牛防治到底有沒有效我們要不要來探討這個問題我們已經有這樣子的一個獎勵機制但是我們看到完全沒有效果的話那這個獎勵到底有沒有效我想實名制是能夠有效來禁止黃牛這件事情應該可以從市場看得出來像現在看到張學遠唱會他就沒有採用實名制所以黃牛其實才會這麼嚴重如果有採用實名制的其實黃牛就不會這麼\n最後我想要請求本席覺得實名制我覺得有處理一部分的問題但是有大部分的問題也不一定實名制能夠處理而且成本會大增主辦單位會大增這個相關的成本人事之外\n觀眾的成本也會增加觀眾是不是會覺得這個消費體驗會變爛這個部分是不是未來有機會如果你要推實名制我們是願意樂觀其成但是能不能跟產業有更多的配套把它做好能不能再去邀集產業來做相關的溝通來做處理我們來做這個實名制的部分來朝向這個部分我覺得可以但是希望你能夠辦實際的相關的產業說明繼續努力\n好不好 看到效果才是重點謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.612 --> 00:16.622\n好,謝謝主席,主席麻煩請這個王政次還有速發部的林副署長,行事局的林明佐警政監好,我們請文化還有數位還有警政署,謝謝\n\n00:18.820 --> 00:44.626\n今天非常感謝昭緯排這樣子的一個案子我覺得昭緯你一定很接地氣要不然就是你可能沒有買到張學友的演唱會門票我也是受害者之一但是我講真的我們接到太多太多的陳情案件所以對於昭緯這樣子排案我感到非常非常的感謝那文化部在2023年三讀通過《文化創意產業發展法》\n\n00:45.506 --> 01:09.578\n目的就是為了嚇死黃牛的不肖行為但是實施之後到底有沒有改善黃牛的問題次長你說大概有兩千多件的一個檢舉案件對吧檢舉案是那目前我想跟您請問一下就是2023年三讀通過的這個文創法到現在你覺得改善黃牛這件事情1到100分你覺得改善有打幾分\n\n01:10.816 --> 01:21.542\n我想在整體的黃牛的量尤其是規模化的進行的是的確有減少但是仍然有黃牛的存在這一點是不足的所以您覺得幾分我想分數應該是委員來打\n\n01:23.368 --> 01:50.020\n我個人覺得看到這一個書面報告大概六頁啦六頁左右還含前言對於黃牛法對於黃牛的這個賀旨相關的一個作為只有六頁來寫這件事情我覺得是不盡滿意那到底次長有沒有覺得說我們的黃牛氾濫到了什麼程度待會我想很多前面的委員應該都有提供一些案例但是我自己也要提供\n\n01:50.720 --> 02:06.306\n但是我想今天我要另外跟大家討論的是黃牛法黃牛票最主要有三個面向跟三位現場的三位來做討論第一個法規面賣黃牛票究竟違反什麼法是色違法、文創法還是刑法\n\n02:06.986 --> 02:29.387\n我們當然第一個案例大家都在說竹科工程師自行撰寫這個電腦搶票的程式搶票機器人上傳網路免費工人下載搶購演唱會等門票五六秒鐘可以買到一張被依文創法來法辦第二個案例臺北大巨蛋的運動賽事門票黃牛票被依社委法來法辦\n\n02:31.129 --> 02:59.526\n第3個案例用虛擬身份來定票被依偽造為輸來法辦次長請問你怎麼看國內有這麼多關於賣黃牛票的法規跟委員說明那因為行為的本身有很多不同的面向但他所找到的可以掌握的證據跟可以裁罰的工具有不同所以他在法律的適用上可能會有不同的差異但關鍵仍然是將這一類的行為繩之以法\n\n03:00.146 --> 03:02.748\n黃牛票還是層出不窮黃牛票還是道高一尺魔高一丈我們看到藝文的這個表演啊票卷主要是用文創法\n\n03:21.363 --> 03:45.719\n那現在在進行的一個處罰施展文創法的第一條規定為促進文化創意產業之發展建構具有豐富的文化及創意內涵的社會環境運用科技及創研發展健全文化創意產業人才的培育並積極開發國內外市場特制定本法看起來文創法當初在特設計上就是比較正面的\n\n03:47.561 --> 04:03.037\n在文創法第十之一條我們上面販賣黃牛票的形式要件會不會怪怪的當初怎麼會想說放在這裡跟委員說明的確文創法是一個促進法比較不是一個禁制法但是當時主要是因為黃牛的問題\n\n04:04.398 --> 04:28.412\n實在是讓整體的社會非常關注所以文化部就負起這個責任把黃牛那大概相關唯一能適用的就是文創法因為它畢竟跟演藝票券的文藝票券的市場有關所以我們就把它放在文創法那我也有說明就是說如果我們在整體的黃牛票因為黃牛票其實不只有藝人藝文演出的票券如果能夠有一些整體的規範我們其實是非常樂於配合的\n\n04:28.692 --> 04:47.825\n所以我說你的回應都很厲害看起來就是文化部願意擔起責任去協助但是我看了當初的文創法第十之一條立法說明提及社會秩序違附法法則過輕請問社違法法則過輕為什麼要修文創法而不是修社違法\n\n04:48.565 --> 05:04.915\n當然你會跟我講嘛就是文化部這不是你的管轄啊你能夠負起的責任所以你去修了這個文創法但是我就想啊文化部報告第三頁講文化部收售之加價轉售檢舉案共2105件檢舉案中資料完備可進行調查609件已交由地方政府進行調查其中300件已處理完均309件調查中完成率約五成次長\n\n05:14.901 --> 05:39.643\n因為文化部收到檢舉後最後還需要交給地方政府進行調查來進行裁罰但是我們看到如果地方政府消極應對怎麼辦我們的確需要努力跟地方政府來做協談跟配合所以我們有說明會跟教育訓練那但是我理解委員覺得現在做得不夠那也是我們做得不夠的地方剛剛包括葉元之委員在講的有些是各自取得不義然後還有\n\n05:41.323 --> 06:06.568\n地方政府的積極度有問題我想都有啦我不要只幫地方政府講話好不好我都納入取得不易還有消極面對都有可能但現在就是我們看到目前法規的機制是否能夠足夠因應層出不窮的黃牛票在國內對黃牛票的有不同法規來處置這部分需不需要統一一個法律來做一個標準我想剛剛你有回應再回應一次好不好你認定\n\n06:07.648 --> 06:23.077\n你覺不覺得需要專法或專章?其實我會站在文化部的立場如果能有一個專法來集中解釋所有各種類型的黃牛票跟他們的行為不管是行政裁罰或者是刑事裁罰我想會是一個比較完善的規範\n\n06:23.888 --> 06:45.848\n我想你剛剛也有做表態那我們也希望未來有這個專法專章在日本我想很多人都在講日本韓國都有給你做相關的一個有抽選制的阿或者是他們有立專法專章我們更希望跨部會來面對這個問題我們一起來把這個事情來處理我想包括我也有準備幾個拋破引給大家看一下這幾個案例\n\n06:46.969 --> 07:06.558\n你看我的螢幕最左邊我是一個肺癌士氣張學友的歌迷因為沒辦法跟你們搶票我想應該也是搶不到當然他這篇文章在講的是他沒有病房也搶不到票希望大家能夠讓票我想買一張張學友的演唱會門票竟然要透過拜託施捨\n\n07:08.679 --> 07:37.038\n這真的是讓我們感到非常的悲哀第二個台下最大的觀眾是黃牛他透過AI制圖還放了一隻牛在裡面我想這個部分讓我們一再顯示到我們到底現在的黃牛的這個相關產業有多蓬勃發展我們到底現在民眾對於現在的黃牛有沒有根絕我想我自己評分我一定是不及格但是如果用民眾的角度來評分我想民眾可能會給予0分\n\n07:38.899 --> 07:55.010\n但是我現在不只是要苛責我們現在的政治文化部我希望的是我們積極面對處理這個問題而不是一再的只是批評攻擊我們希望處理你看到現在最右邊這個有多少人在上面寫我們800家代購費\n\n07:57.020 --> 08:15.016\n這有沒有符合黃牛票的定義?我有說明代購費要透過個案來認定．如果它是必要性花費．而且是由第三方來收受．譬如像遊資、交通．這個才能稱之為代購．而且它必須有事先的約定．但如果超出這個範圍．它仍然不是代購．仍然觸犯這條法律\n\n08:15.416 --> 08:38.199\n那你認為代購費有沒有一個標準他如果油資可能花幾百塊幾千塊這在當時立法的時候其實文化部是提出了10%的標準10%當時但是被刪除了因為社會不能接受所以我們就刪除了你寫10%沒關係但我要跟你講就是我們所看到的有的3800的門票外面就是賣一萬了\n\n08:40.856 --> 08:55.591\n這是非常多的這樣子的相關案例我想到底要不要加強取締有沒有可不可以能夠狠狠的取締一年我們再來看看重重的罰看看還會不會有黃牛這是我們現在目前希望的我想這個部分我希望\n\n08:56.272 --> 09:10.730\n今天會把另外兩位都叫上來我覺得訴發部有沒有辦法從源頭去介入那以及我們的警察機關能不能從社委法我自己提了一個版本希望社委法能夠加重但是警察機關這樣子的一個相關設定\n\n09:12.051 --> 09:12.792\n第3個面向,文化部有沒有獎勵實名制?\n\n09:28.601 --> 09:56.001\n有補助方案現在有獎勵嘛對不對但是實名制對於黃牛防治到底有沒有效我們要不要來探討這個問題我們已經有這樣子的一個獎勵機制但是我們看到完全沒有效果的話那這個獎勵到底有沒有效我想實名制是能夠有效來禁止黃牛這件事情應該可以從市場看得出來像現在看到張學遠唱會他就沒有採用實名制所以黃牛其實才會這麼嚴重如果有採用實名制的其實黃牛就不會這麼\n\n09:56.921 --> 10:11.483\n最後我想要請求本席覺得實名制我覺得有處理一部分的問題但是有大部分的問題也不一定實名制能夠處理而且成本會大增主辦單位會大增這個相關的成本人事之外\n\n10:12.283 --> 10:37.170\n觀眾的成本也會增加觀眾是不是會覺得這個消費體驗會變爛這個部分是不是未來有機會如果你要推實名制我們是願意樂觀其成但是能不能跟產業有更多的配套把它做好能不能再去邀集產業來做相關的溝通來做處理我們來做這個實名制的部分來朝向這個部分我覺得可以但是希望你能夠辦實際的相關的產業說明繼續努力\n\n10:41.291 --> 10:43.065\n好不好看到效果才是重點謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.612,"end":16.622,"text":"好,謝謝主席,主席麻煩請這個王政次還有速發部的林副署長,行事局的林明佐警政監好,我們請文化還有數位還有警政署,謝謝"},{"start":18.82,"end":44.626,"text":"今天非常感謝昭緯排這樣子的一個案子我覺得昭緯你一定很接地氣要不然就是你可能沒有買到張學友的演唱會門票我也是受害者之一但是我講真的我們接到太多太多的陳情案件所以對於昭緯這樣子排案我感到非常非常的感謝那文化部在2023年三讀通過《文化創意產業發展法》"},{"start":45.506,"end":69.578,"text":"目的就是為了嚇死黃牛的不肖行為但是實施之後到底有沒有改善黃牛的問題次長你說大概有兩千多件的一個檢舉案件對吧檢舉案是那目前我想跟您請問一下就是2023年三讀通過的這個文創法到現在你覺得改善黃牛這件事情1到100分你覺得改善有打幾分"},{"start":70.816,"end":81.542,"text":"我想在整體的黃牛的量尤其是規模化的進行的是的確有減少但是仍然有黃牛的存在這一點是不足的所以您覺得幾分我想分數應該是委員來打"},{"start":83.368,"end":110.02,"text":"我個人覺得看到這一個書面報告大概六頁啦六頁左右還含前言對於黃牛法對於黃牛的這個賀旨相關的一個作為只有六頁來寫這件事情我覺得是不盡滿意那到底次長有沒有覺得說我們的黃牛氾濫到了什麼程度待會我想很多前面的委員應該都有提供一些案例但是我自己也要提供"},{"start":110.72,"end":126.306,"text":"但是我想今天我要另外跟大家討論的是黃牛法黃牛票最主要有三個面向跟三位現場的三位來做討論第一個法規面賣黃牛票究竟違反什麼法是色違法、文創法還是刑法"},{"start":126.986,"end":149.387,"text":"我們當然第一個案例大家都在說竹科工程師自行撰寫這個電腦搶票的程式搶票機器人上傳網路免費工人下載搶購演唱會等門票五六秒鐘可以買到一張被依文創法來法辦第二個案例臺北大巨蛋的運動賽事門票黃牛票被依社委法來法辦"},{"start":151.129,"end":179.526,"text":"第3個案例用虛擬身份來定票被依偽造為輸來法辦次長請問你怎麼看國內有這麼多關於賣黃牛票的法規跟委員說明那因為行為的本身有很多不同的面向但他所找到的可以掌握的證據跟可以裁罰的工具有不同所以他在法律的適用上可能會有不同的差異但關鍵仍然是將這一類的行為繩之以法"},{"start":180.146,"end":182.748,"text":"黃牛票還是層出不窮黃牛票還是道高一尺魔高一丈我們看到藝文的這個表演啊票卷主要是用文創法"},{"start":201.363,"end":225.719,"text":"那現在在進行的一個處罰施展文創法的第一條規定為促進文化創意產業之發展建構具有豐富的文化及創意內涵的社會環境運用科技及創研發展健全文化創意產業人才的培育並積極開發國內外市場特制定本法看起來文創法當初在特設計上就是比較正面的"},{"start":227.561,"end":243.037,"text":"在文創法第十之一條我們上面販賣黃牛票的形式要件會不會怪怪的當初怎麼會想說放在這裡跟委員說明的確文創法是一個促進法比較不是一個禁制法但是當時主要是因為黃牛的問題"},{"start":244.398,"end":268.412,"text":"實在是讓整體的社會非常關注所以文化部就負起這個責任把黃牛那大概相關唯一能適用的就是文創法因為它畢竟跟演藝票券的文藝票券的市場有關所以我們就把它放在文創法那我也有說明就是說如果我們在整體的黃牛票因為黃牛票其實不只有藝人藝文演出的票券如果能夠有一些整體的規範我們其實是非常樂於配合的"},{"start":268.692,"end":287.825,"text":"所以我說你的回應都很厲害看起來就是文化部願意擔起責任去協助但是我看了當初的文創法第十之一條立法說明提及社會秩序違附法法則過輕請問社違法法則過輕為什麼要修文創法而不是修社違法"},{"start":288.565,"end":304.915,"text":"當然你會跟我講嘛就是文化部這不是你的管轄啊你能夠負起的責任所以你去修了這個文創法但是我就想啊文化部報告第三頁講文化部收售之加價轉售檢舉案共2105件檢舉案中資料完備可進行調查609件已交由地方政府進行調查其中300件已處理完均309件調查中完成率約五成次長"},{"start":314.901,"end":339.643,"text":"因為文化部收到檢舉後最後還需要交給地方政府進行調查來進行裁罰但是我們看到如果地方政府消極應對怎麼辦我們的確需要努力跟地方政府來做協談跟配合所以我們有說明會跟教育訓練那但是我理解委員覺得現在做得不夠那也是我們做得不夠的地方剛剛包括葉元之委員在講的有些是各自取得不義然後還有"},{"start":341.323,"end":366.568,"text":"地方政府的積極度有問題我想都有啦我不要只幫地方政府講話好不好我都納入取得不易還有消極面對都有可能但現在就是我們看到目前法規的機制是否能夠足夠因應層出不窮的黃牛票在國內對黃牛票的有不同法規來處置這部分需不需要統一一個法律來做一個標準我想剛剛你有回應再回應一次好不好你認定"},{"start":367.648,"end":383.077,"text":"你覺不覺得需要專法或專章?其實我會站在文化部的立場如果能有一個專法來集中解釋所有各種類型的黃牛票跟他們的行為不管是行政裁罰或者是刑事裁罰我想會是一個比較完善的規範"},{"start":383.888,"end":405.848,"text":"我想你剛剛也有做表態那我們也希望未來有這個專法專章在日本我想很多人都在講日本韓國都有給你做相關的一個有抽選制的阿或者是他們有立專法專章我們更希望跨部會來面對這個問題我們一起來把這個事情來處理我想包括我也有準備幾個拋破引給大家看一下這幾個案例"},{"start":406.969,"end":426.558,"text":"你看我的螢幕最左邊我是一個肺癌士氣張學友的歌迷因為沒辦法跟你們搶票我想應該也是搶不到當然他這篇文章在講的是他沒有病房也搶不到票希望大家能夠讓票我想買一張張學友的演唱會門票竟然要透過拜託施捨"},{"start":428.679,"end":457.038,"text":"這真的是讓我們感到非常的悲哀第二個台下最大的觀眾是黃牛他透過AI制圖還放了一隻牛在裡面我想這個部分讓我們一再顯示到我們到底現在的黃牛的這個相關產業有多蓬勃發展我們到底現在民眾對於現在的黃牛有沒有根絕我想我自己評分我一定是不及格但是如果用民眾的角度來評分我想民眾可能會給予0分"},{"start":458.899,"end":475.01,"text":"但是我現在不只是要苛責我們現在的政治文化部我希望的是我們積極面對處理這個問題而不是一再的只是批評攻擊我們希望處理你看到現在最右邊這個有多少人在上面寫我們800家代購費"},{"start":477.02,"end":495.016,"text":"這有沒有符合黃牛票的定義?我有說明代購費要透過個案來認定．如果它是必要性花費．而且是由第三方來收受．譬如像遊資、交通．這個才能稱之為代購．而且它必須有事先的約定．但如果超出這個範圍．它仍然不是代購．仍然觸犯這條法律"},{"start":495.416,"end":518.199,"text":"那你認為代購費有沒有一個標準他如果油資可能花幾百塊幾千塊這在當時立法的時候其實文化部是提出了10%的標準10%當時但是被刪除了因為社會不能接受所以我們就刪除了你寫10%沒關係但我要跟你講就是我們所看到的有的3800的門票外面就是賣一萬了"},{"start":520.856,"end":535.591,"text":"這是非常多的這樣子的相關案例我想到底要不要加強取締有沒有可不可以能夠狠狠的取締一年我們再來看看重重的罰看看還會不會有黃牛這是我們現在目前希望的我想這個部分我希望"},{"start":536.272,"end":550.73,"text":"今天會把另外兩位都叫上來我覺得訴發部有沒有辦法從源頭去介入那以及我們的警察機關能不能從社委法我自己提了一個版本希望社委法能夠加重但是警察機關這樣子的一個相關設定"},{"start":552.051,"end":552.792,"text":"第3個面向,文化部有沒有獎勵實名制?"},{"start":568.601,"end":596.001,"text":"有補助方案現在有獎勵嘛對不對但是實名制對於黃牛防治到底有沒有效我們要不要來探討這個問題我們已經有這樣子的一個獎勵機制但是我們看到完全沒有效果的話那這個獎勵到底有沒有效我想實名制是能夠有效來禁止黃牛這件事情應該可以從市場看得出來像現在看到張學遠唱會他就沒有採用實名制所以黃牛其實才會這麼嚴重如果有採用實名制的其實黃牛就不會這麼"},{"start":596.921,"end":611.483,"text":"最後我想要請求本席覺得實名制我覺得有處理一部分的問題但是有大部分的問題也不一定實名制能夠處理而且成本會大增主辦單位會大增這個相關的成本人事之外"},{"start":612.283,"end":637.17,"text":"觀眾的成本也會增加觀眾是不是會覺得這個消費體驗會變爛這個部分是不是未來有機會如果你要推實名制我們是願意樂觀其成但是能不能跟產業有更多的配套把它做好能不能再去邀集產業來做相關的溝通來做處理我們來做這個實名制的部分來朝向這個部分我覺得可以但是希望你能夠辦實際的相關的產業說明繼續努力"},{"start":641.291,"end":643.065,"text":"好不好 看到效果才是重點謝謝委員"}]}}}}