{"id":151875,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151875","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e90f54132b1096e6dc2d3e870f71230f054712d423581dcc3cba397b1f8b3c9cea4ab2856517d8325ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃捷","委員發言時間":"11:56:59 - 12:02:55","影片長度":"00:05:56","會議時間":"2024-04-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請文化部、教育部、內政部、法務部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部及行政院主計總處列席就「表演及運動賽事黃牛票氾濫，相關單位取締、防範及執法成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢。（4月29日及5月2日二天一次會））","date":"2024-04-29","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-10"},"duration":356,"end_time":"2024-04-29T12:02:55+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-29T11:56:59+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":892,"blocks":[["黃委員捷：（11時57分）謝謝主席，請文化部政次。"],["主席：好，請。"],["王次長時思：委員好。"],["黃委員捷：好，謝謝政次，今天這個主題其實我關心很久了，因為我一直都是一個很喜歡聽演唱會、很喜歡參加藝文表演跟看體育賽事的歌迷也是球迷。當然先很肯定文創法在去年5月的時候已經修正通過了，可是修正將近一年，到現在其實我也接到不少的陳情，陳情的內容其實跟剛剛很多委員提到的差不多，我不是收到張學友的陳情啦！但是可能是類似的，像是高雄最近有非常多的演唱會，比如韓團拼盤、大港開唱、五月天，這些都在高雄，所以其實我們接到的陳情也是層出不窮。","我要講一下，現在有兩個最大的問題，一個是社維法跟文創法的競合，這個是非常迫切的；另外一個就是實名制的問題。先講一下社維法跟文創法這個非常嚴重的競合關係，因為已經發生相關的案例了。去年底有一個案例是有一個民眾在網路上把職棒的周邊商品搭配亞錦賽的門票來進行販售，結果警方是怎麼處理的呢？他把他用社維法第六十四條移送臺北地方法院，法院最後判定是不罰，這個結果是不罰，因為他覺得這個商品是亞錦賽的門票，沒有公定價格的交易價值，然後說沒有辦法認定購票支出就有轉售的意圖，然後也沒有辦法證明說這個人購買門票的時候確實非供自用，這個是在社維法裡面的條件，所以他就不罰了。","可是我要問的是，現在這種黃牛票的行為，或者是他用門票加其他商品同時販售的行為，他很有可能同時違反社維法跟文創法，或是同時違反社維法跟運發條例，在這種情況下，警方要怎麼處理？他們什麼時候選擇用社維法處理，什麼時候選擇用文創法或運發條例處理？我覺得這必須要有明確界定的，就是通常這種時候，到底他需不需要同時送文化部，或者是同時送地方政府的文化局，或者是地方政府的體育局或運發局呢？像這種情況你們是怎麼處理的？"],["王次長時思：跟委員報告，因為特別法優於普通法的概念，所以原則上如果有了現在的文創法的黃牛十之一，以及運動彩券的條例之後，其他就不用再送社維法了，它還是依據特別法。"],["黃委員捷：所以嘛！可是現在已經發生，這已經是在你們修法之後，已經有文創法，也有運發條例了，可是地方的警方收到這個案件的時候，還是送社維法處理，那這種情況該怎麼辦？我們是不是應該要有一個原則，然後讓地方的警察他們接到相關的檢舉，他們不是跟文化局或文化部檢舉，也不是跟地方的體育局或你們體育署來檢舉，他們是直接去報警，那這種時候該怎麼辦？你們是不是應該有一個統一的處理方式？而不是看檢送的單位，變成說，如果是警方接到，他們就直接用社維法；如果是文化局接到，反而要用比較重的文創法。因為現在的罰則很明確，社維法最高就是罰一萬八，如果用文創法，最高是罰300萬。不同的法卻因為檢舉的管道不同，造成不同的結果，這是不是很嚴重的競合關係？"],["王次長時思：跟委員報告，現在已經不會發生，特別法就是優於普通法，如果是藝文表演票券……"],["黃委員捷：怎麼不會發生？這是去年底的案例耶！"],["王次長時思：那時候運彩條例應該還沒通過。運動的部分就是用運彩條例，藝文的部分就是用文創法，這裡面沒有競合。"],["黃委員捷：所以這個一定要很明確，我希望文化部跟體育署在跟地方政府溝通的時候，一定要明確下達這個指令，好不好？"],["王次長時思：好。"],["黃委員捷：再來，另外一個實名制的問題，我知道現在文化部有定一個鼓勵流行音樂中心的實名制票券補助要點，就例如說，今年8月的宇多田光的演唱會就會用實名制，這個當然非常值得肯定，可是實名制確實有一個實際執行上的困難，我想問一下，如何有效率地保障消費體驗，又同時能夠保障觀眾的進場權益？這是現在最大的難題。"],["王次長時思：其實委員如果要問如何澈底解決，我認為科技才有辦法解決，因為用實名制造成的主要困擾就是現場進場的時間跟人力都會大幅增加。"],["黃委員捷：沒錯。"],["王次長時思：這也是為什麼實名制當時沒有立法採取強制的原因，我們現在就是補助，已經跟業者協商用這樣的方式來協助，但我想如果我們能夠在科技上用更快速採取實名認證的方式，也許可以期待科技帶給我們比較好的解決方法。"],["黃委員捷：所以這個科技由誰來處理？所以你們是期待現在如果民間有人去發明完，然後再跟你們說現在可以處理了嗎？"],["王次長時思：我想可以與時俱進，我們一起來解決。"],["黃委員捷：是誰來處理？是不是應該要你們回去找哪個單位出來研商？可不可以現在讓大家知道？"],["王次長時思：現在應該還是經營者負擔比較多的責任，所以我們還是跟經營者來協商。"],["黃委員捷：還是你們要請數發部協助？"],["王次長時思：我們當然很希望數發部一起來做，我想這個平台是我們一起的。"],["黃委員捷：好，拜託你們回去會同數發部一起來研究實名制如何用更好的科技的方式處理，好不好？"],["王次長時思：好。"],["黃委員捷：好，謝謝，謝謝主席。"],["主席：好。感謝，謝謝。","接下來請陳亭妃委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":310,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-10","speakers":["柯志恩","萬美玲","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","葛如鈞","葉元之","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","范雲","張雅琳","吳春城","羅廷瑋","黃珊珊","黃捷","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","邱志偉","張啓楷","羅智強","林倩綺","林楚茵","劉建國"],"page_start":243,"meetingDate":["2024-04-29"],"gazette_id":"1133901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133901_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請文化部、教育部、內政部、法務部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部及行政院主計總處列\n席就「表演及運動賽事黃牛票氾濫，相關單位取締、防範及執法成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1133901_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"151875","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151875","tool":"pyannote","id":"151875-pyannote"},"job_id":"fUF15CUYD5gzJ6AC","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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00:00:40,189\n好謝謝政次今天這個主題其實我關心很久了因為我一直都是一個很喜歡聽演唱會很喜歡參加藝文表演跟看體育賽事的歌迷也是球迷那當然現在很肯定這個文創法在去年5月的時候已經修正通過了可是修正將近一年到現在其實我也接到不少的陳情陳情的內容其實跟剛剛很多委員提到的差不多我不是收到那個張學友的陳情\n\n3\n00:00:40,569 --> 00:00:41,570\n現在有兩個最大的問題一個是社委法跟文創法的競合這個是非常迫切的\n\n4\n00:01:03,574 --> 00:01:21,581\n實名制問題社會法與文創法的嚴重競合關係因為已經發生相關的案例了去年底有一個案例是有一個民眾他在網路上把職棒的周邊商品搭配亞警賽的門票來進行販售結果警方是怎麼\n\n5\n00:01:22,541 --> 00:01:37,739\n怎麼處理的呢?他把他用涉違法64條移送臺北的地方法院那法院最後判定是不罰這個結果是不罰因為呢他覺得說這個商品因為亞景賽的門票沒有公定價格的交易價值\n\n6\n00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:53,394\n然後說沒有辦法認定購票支出就有轉售的意圖然後也沒有辦法證明說這個人他購買門票的時候確實非公自用那這個是在社會法裡面的條件所以他就不罰了\n\n7\n00:01:54,895 --> 00:02:10,515\n可是我要問的是現在我們這種黃牛票的行為或者是說他用這個門票加售其他的商品同時販售的行為他很有可能同時違反社委法跟文創法或是同時違反社委法跟運發條例\n\n8\n00:02:12,057 --> 00:02:36,012\n那在這種情況下警方他們要怎麼處理他什麼時候選擇用社會法處理什麼時候選擇用文創法或運發條例處理我覺得這是一個必須要有明確界定的就是通常這種時候到底他需不需要同時送文化部或者是同時送地方政府的文化局或者是地方政府的體育局或運發局呢\n\n9\n00:02:36,852 --> 00:02:51,268\n像這種情況你們是怎麼處理的跟委員報告因為特別法用於普通法的概念所以原則上如果有了現在的文創法的黃牛十之一以及這個運動彩券的條例之後其他就不用再送社會法了它還是依據特別法\n\n10\n00:02:51,949 --> 00:03:05,606\n所以嘛可是現在已經發生這已經是在你們修法之後喔已經有文創法也有運發條例了可是地方的警方他收到這個案件的時候還是把他送涉違法處理了那這種情況該怎麼辦\n\n11\n00:03:07,248 --> 00:03:35,796\n我們是不是應該要有一個原則然後讓地方的警察他們接到相關的檢舉他們不是跟文化局或文化部檢舉也不是跟地方的體育局或你們體育署來檢舉他們是直接去報警那這種時候該怎麼辦你們是不是應該要有一個統一的處理方式而不是看他檢送的單位變成說如果是警方接到他們就直接用社會法如果是文化局接到反而要用比較重的文創法\n\n12\n00:03:36,736 --> 00:03:37,337\n跟我們報告現在已經不會發生\n\n13\n00:03:53,419 --> 00:04:13,742\n特別法就是優於普通法,如果是藝人表演票券,藝人會創法運彩,那時候運彩應該還沒通過,運彩的部分,就是運動的部分就用運彩,藝文的部分就用文創所以這個一定要很明確,我希望說我們文化部跟體育署在跟地方政府溝通的時候,一定要明確下達這個指令好不好\n\n14\n00:04:14,743 --> 00:04:15,083\n實名制\n\n15\n00:04:44,343 --> 00:04:46,024\n所以這個科技由誰來處理?\n\n16\n00:05:18,029 --> 00:05:41,564\n所以你們是期待現在如果民間有人去發明完然後再跟你們說我們現在可以處理了嗎是誰來處理是不是應該要你們回去找哪個單位出來研商可不可以現在讓大家知道現在應該還是經營者負擔比較多的責任所以我們還是跟經營者來做協商還是你們要請數法部協助我們當然很希望數法部來做一起來做我想這個平台是我們一起的\n\n17\n00:05:42,424 --> 00:05:42,444\n陳婉嫻議員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4397\t8334\t好 謝謝主席 我們請文化部正次好 我們請\n12140\t40189\t好 謝謝政次今天這個主題其實我關心很久了因為我一直都是一個很喜歡聽演唱會很喜歡參加藝文表演跟看體育賽事的歌迷也是球迷那當然現在很肯定這個文創法在去年5月的時候已經修正通過了可是修正將近一年到現在其實我也接到不少的陳情陳情的內容其實跟剛剛很多委員提到的差不多我不是收到那個張學友的陳情\n40569\t41570\t現在有兩個最大的問題一個是社委法跟文創法的競合這個是非常迫切的\n63574\t81581\t實名制問題社會法與文創法的嚴重競合關係因為已經發生相關的案例了去年底有一個案例是有一個民眾他在網路上把職棒的周邊商品搭配亞警賽的門票來進行販售結果警方是怎麼\n82541\t97739\t怎麼處理的呢?他把他用涉違法64條移送臺北的地方法院那法院最後判定是不罰這個結果是不罰因為呢他覺得說這個商品因為亞景賽的門票沒有公定價格的交易價值\n98760\t113394\t然後說沒有辦法認定購票支出就有轉售的意圖然後也沒有辦法證明說這個人他購買門票的時候確實非公自用那這個是在社會法裡面的條件所以他就不罰了\n114895\t130515\t可是我要問的是現在我們這種黃牛票的行為或者是說他用這個門票加售其他的商品同時販售的行為他很有可能同時違反社委法跟文創法或是同時違反社委法跟運發條例\n132057\t156012\t那在這種情況下警方他們要怎麼處理他什麼時候選擇用社會法處理什麼時候選擇用文創法或運發條例處理我覺得這是一個必須要有明確界定的就是通常這種時候到底他需不需要同時送文化部或者是同時送地方政府的文化局或者是地方政府的體育局或運發局呢\n156852\t171268\t像這種情況你們是怎麼處理的跟委員報告因為特別法用於普通法的概念所以原則上如果有了現在的文創法的黃牛十之一以及這個運動彩券的條例之後其他就不用再送社會法了它還是依據特別法\n171949\t185606\t所以嘛可是現在已經發生這已經是在你們修法之後喔已經有文創法也有運發條例了可是地方的警方他收到這個案件的時候還是把他送涉違法處理了那這種情況該怎麼辦\n187248\t215796\t我們是不是應該要有一個原則然後讓地方的警察他們接到相關的檢舉他們不是跟文化局或文化部檢舉也不是跟地方的體育局或你們體育署來檢舉他們是直接去報警那這種時候該怎麼辦你們是不是應該要有一個統一的處理方式而不是看他檢送的單位變成說如果是警方接到他們就直接用社會法如果是文化局接到反而要用比較重的文創法\n216736\t217337\t跟我們報告現在已經不會發生\n233419\t253742\t特別法就是優於普通法,如果是藝人表演票券,藝人會創法運彩,那時候運彩應該還沒通過,運彩的部分,就是運動的部分就用運彩,藝文的部分就用文創所以這個一定要很明確,我希望說我們文化部跟體育署在跟地方政府溝通的時候,一定要明確下達這個指令好不好\n254743\t255083\t實名制\n284343\t286024\t所以這個科技由誰來處理?\n318029\t341564\t所以你們是期待現在如果民間有人去發明完然後再跟你們說我們現在可以處理了嗎是誰來處理是不是應該要你們回去找哪個單位出來研商可不可以現在讓大家知道現在應該還是經營者負擔比較多的責任所以我們還是跟經營者來做協商還是你們要請數法部協助我們當然很希望數法部來做一起來做我想這個平台是我們一起的\n342424\t342444\t陳婉嫻議員\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 我們請文化部正次好 我們請\n好 謝謝政次今天這個主題其實我關心很久了因為我一直都是一個很喜歡聽演唱會很喜歡參加藝文表演跟看體育賽事的歌迷也是球迷那當然現在很肯定這個文創法在去年5月的時候已經修正通過了可是修正將近一年到現在其實我也接到不少的陳情陳情的內容其實跟剛剛很多委員提到的差不多我不是收到那個張學友的陳情\n現在有兩個最大的問題一個是社委法跟文創法的競合這個是非常迫切的\n實名制問題社會法與文創法的嚴重競合關係因為已經發生相關的案例了去年底有一個案例是有一個民眾他在網路上把職棒的周邊商品搭配亞警賽的門票來進行販售結果警方是怎麼\n怎麼處理的呢?他把他用涉違法64條移送臺北的地方法院那法院最後判定是不罰這個結果是不罰因為呢他覺得說這個商品因為亞景賽的門票沒有公定價格的交易價值\n然後說沒有辦法認定購票支出就有轉售的意圖然後也沒有辦法證明說這個人他購買門票的時候確實非公自用那這個是在社會法裡面的條件所以他就不罰了\n可是我要問的是現在我們這種黃牛票的行為或者是說他用這個門票加售其他的商品同時販售的行為他很有可能同時違反社委法跟文創法或是同時違反社委法跟運發條例\n那在這種情況下警方他們要怎麼處理他什麼時候選擇用社會法處理什麼時候選擇用文創法或運發條例處理我覺得這是一個必須要有明確界定的就是通常這種時候到底他需不需要同時送文化部或者是同時送地方政府的文化局或者是地方政府的體育局或運發局呢\n像這種情況你們是怎麼處理的跟委員報告因為特別法用於普通法的概念所以原則上如果有了現在的文創法的黃牛十之一以及這個運動彩券的條例之後其他就不用再送社會法了它還是依據特別法\n所以嘛可是現在已經發生這已經是在你們修法之後喔已經有文創法也有運發條例了可是地方的警方他收到這個案件的時候還是把他送涉違法處理了那這種情況該怎麼辦\n我們是不是應該要有一個原則然後讓地方的警察他們接到相關的檢舉他們不是跟文化局或文化部檢舉也不是跟地方的體育局或你們體育署來檢舉他們是直接去報警那這種時候該怎麼辦你們是不是應該要有一個統一的處理方式而不是看他檢送的單位變成說如果是警方接到他們就直接用社會法如果是文化局接到反而要用比較重的文創法\n跟我們報告現在已經不會發生\n特別法就是優於普通法,如果是藝人表演票券,藝人會創法運彩,那時候運彩應該還沒通過,運彩的部分,就是運動的部分就用運彩,藝文的部分就用文創所以這個一定要很明確,我希望說我們文化部跟體育署在跟地方政府溝通的時候,一定要明確下達這個指令好不好\n實名制\n所以這個科技由誰來處理?\n所以你們是期待現在如果民間有人去發明完然後再跟你們說我們現在可以處理了嗎是誰來處理是不是應該要你們回去找哪個單位出來研商可不可以現在讓大家知道現在應該還是經營者負擔比較多的責任所以我們還是跟經營者來做協商還是你們要請數法部協助我們當然很希望數法部來做一起來做我想這個平台是我們一起的\n陳婉嫻議員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.397 --> 00:08.334\n好謝謝主席我們請文化部正次好我們請\n\n00:12.140 --> 00:40.189\n好謝謝政次今天這個主題其實我關心很久了因為我一直都是一個很喜歡聽演唱會很喜歡參加藝文表演跟看體育賽事的歌迷也是球迷那當然現在很肯定這個文創法在去年5月的時候已經修正通過了可是修正將近一年到現在其實我也接到不少的陳情陳情的內容其實跟剛剛很多委員提到的差不多我不是收到那個張學友的陳情\n\n00:40.569 --> 00:41.570\n現在有兩個最大的問題一個是社委法跟文創法的競合這個是非常迫切的\n\n01:03.574 --> 01:21.581\n實名制問題社會法與文創法的嚴重競合關係因為已經發生相關的案例了去年底有一個案例是有一個民眾他在網路上把職棒的周邊商品搭配亞警賽的門票來進行販售結果警方是怎麼\n\n01:22.541 --> 01:37.739\n怎麼處理的呢?他把他用涉違法64條移送臺北的地方法院那法院最後判定是不罰這個結果是不罰因為呢他覺得說這個商品因為亞景賽的門票沒有公定價格的交易價值\n\n01:38.760 --> 01:53.394\n然後說沒有辦法認定購票支出就有轉售的意圖然後也沒有辦法證明說這個人他購買門票的時候確實非公自用那這個是在社會法裡面的條件所以他就不罰了\n\n01:54.895 --> 02:10.515\n可是我要問的是現在我們這種黃牛票的行為或者是說他用這個門票加售其他的商品同時販售的行為他很有可能同時違反社委法跟文創法或是同時違反社委法跟運發條例\n\n02:12.057 --> 02:36.012\n那在這種情況下警方他們要怎麼處理他什麼時候選擇用社會法處理什麼時候選擇用文創法或運發條例處理我覺得這是一個必須要有明確界定的就是通常這種時候到底他需不需要同時送文化部或者是同時送地方政府的文化局或者是地方政府的體育局或運發局呢\n\n02:36.852 --> 02:51.268\n像這種情況你們是怎麼處理的跟委員報告因為特別法用於普通法的概念所以原則上如果有了現在的文創法的黃牛十之一以及這個運動彩券的條例之後其他就不用再送社會法了它還是依據特別法\n\n02:51.949 --> 03:05.606\n所以嘛可是現在已經發生這已經是在你們修法之後喔已經有文創法也有運發條例了可是地方的警方他收到這個案件的時候還是把他送涉違法處理了那這種情況該怎麼辦\n\n03:07.248 --> 03:35.796\n我們是不是應該要有一個原則然後讓地方的警察他們接到相關的檢舉他們不是跟文化局或文化部檢舉也不是跟地方的體育局或你們體育署來檢舉他們是直接去報警那這種時候該怎麼辦你們是不是應該要有一個統一的處理方式而不是看他檢送的單位變成說如果是警方接到他們就直接用社會法如果是文化局接到反而要用比較重的文創法\n\n03:36.736 --> 03:37.337\n跟我們報告現在已經不會發生\n\n03:53.419 --> 04:13.742\n特別法就是優於普通法,如果是藝人表演票券,藝人會創法運彩,那時候運彩應該還沒通過,運彩的部分,就是運動的部分就用運彩,藝文的部分就用文創所以這個一定要很明確,我希望說我們文化部跟體育署在跟地方政府溝通的時候,一定要明確下達這個指令好不好\n\n04:14.743 --> 04:15.083\n實名制\n\n04:44.343 --> 04:46.024\n所以這個科技由誰來處理?\n\n05:18.029 --> 05:41.564\n所以你們是期待現在如果民間有人去發明完然後再跟你們說我們現在可以處理了嗎是誰來處理是不是應該要你們回去找哪個單位出來研商可不可以現在讓大家知道現在應該還是經營者負擔比較多的責任所以我們還是跟經營者來做協商還是你們要請數法部協助我們當然很希望數法部來做一起來做我想這個平台是我們一起的\n\n05:42.424 --> 05:42.444\n陳婉嫻議員\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.397,"end":8.334,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們請文化部正次好 我們請"},{"start":12.14,"end":40.189,"text":"好 謝謝政次今天這個主題其實我關心很久了因為我一直都是一個很喜歡聽演唱會很喜歡參加藝文表演跟看體育賽事的歌迷也是球迷那當然現在很肯定這個文創法在去年5月的時候已經修正通過了可是修正將近一年到現在其實我也接到不少的陳情陳情的內容其實跟剛剛很多委員提到的差不多我不是收到那個張學友的陳情"},{"start":40.569,"end":41.57,"text":"現在有兩個最大的問題一個是社委法跟文創法的競合這個是非常迫切的"},{"start":63.574,"end":81.581,"text":"實名制問題社會法與文創法的嚴重競合關係因為已經發生相關的案例了去年底有一個案例是有一個民眾他在網路上把職棒的周邊商品搭配亞警賽的門票來進行販售結果警方是怎麼"},{"start":82.541,"end":97.739,"text":"怎麼處理的呢?他把他用涉違法64條移送臺北的地方法院那法院最後判定是不罰這個結果是不罰因為呢他覺得說這個商品因為亞景賽的門票沒有公定價格的交易價值"},{"start":98.76,"end":113.394,"text":"然後說沒有辦法認定購票支出就有轉售的意圖然後也沒有辦法證明說這個人他購買門票的時候確實非公自用那這個是在社會法裡面的條件所以他就不罰了"},{"start":114.895,"end":130.515,"text":"可是我要問的是現在我們這種黃牛票的行為或者是說他用這個門票加售其他的商品同時販售的行為他很有可能同時違反社委法跟文創法或是同時違反社委法跟運發條例"},{"start":132.057,"end":156.012,"text":"那在這種情況下警方他們要怎麼處理他什麼時候選擇用社會法處理什麼時候選擇用文創法或運發條例處理我覺得這是一個必須要有明確界定的就是通常這種時候到底他需不需要同時送文化部或者是同時送地方政府的文化局或者是地方政府的體育局或運發局呢"},{"start":156.852,"end":171.268,"text":"像這種情況你們是怎麼處理的跟委員報告因為特別法用於普通法的概念所以原則上如果有了現在的文創法的黃牛十之一以及這個運動彩券的條例之後其他就不用再送社會法了它還是依據特別法"},{"start":171.949,"end":185.606,"text":"所以嘛可是現在已經發生這已經是在你們修法之後喔已經有文創法也有運發條例了可是地方的警方他收到這個案件的時候還是把他送涉違法處理了那這種情況該怎麼辦"},{"start":187.248,"end":215.796,"text":"我們是不是應該要有一個原則然後讓地方的警察他們接到相關的檢舉他們不是跟文化局或文化部檢舉也不是跟地方的體育局或你們體育署來檢舉他們是直接去報警那這種時候該怎麼辦你們是不是應該要有一個統一的處理方式而不是看他檢送的單位變成說如果是警方接到他們就直接用社會法如果是文化局接到反而要用比較重的文創法"},{"start":216.736,"end":217.337,"text":"跟我們報告現在已經不會發生"},{"start":233.419,"end":253.742,"text":"特別法就是優於普通法,如果是藝人表演票券,藝人會創法運彩,那時候運彩應該還沒通過,運彩的部分,就是運動的部分就用運彩,藝文的部分就用文創所以這個一定要很明確,我希望說我們文化部跟體育署在跟地方政府溝通的時候,一定要明確下達這個指令好不好"},{"start":254.743,"end":255.083,"text":"實名制"},{"start":284.343,"end":286.024,"text":"所以這個科技由誰來處理?"},{"start":318.029,"end":341.564,"text":"所以你們是期待現在如果民間有人去發明完然後再跟你們說我們現在可以處理了嗎是誰來處理是不是應該要你們回去找哪個單位出來研商可不可以現在讓大家知道現在應該還是經營者負擔比較多的責任所以我們還是跟經營者來做協商還是你們要請數法部協助我們當然很希望數法部來做一起來做我想這個平台是我們一起的"},{"start":342.424,"end":342.444,"text":"陳婉嫻議員"}]}}}}