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12:14:32","影片長度":"00:06:01","會議時間":"2024-04-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請文化部、教育部、內政部、法務部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部及行政院主計總處列席就「表演及運動賽事黃牛票氾濫，相關單位取締、防範及執法成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢。（4月29日及5月2日二天一次會））","date":"2024-04-29","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-10"},"duration":361,"end_time":"2024-04-29T12:14:32+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-29T12:08:31+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":964,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（12時8分）謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言，想邀請王政次和署長。"],["主席：好，請王政次和鄭署長。謝謝。"],["王次長時思：委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：兩位好。大家都關心這個議題，因為這是臺灣目前，也是全世界大家都非常需要的，黃牛跑出來讓大家很難過，所以我們要怎麼樣圍堵，第一個，到目前為止，我們修正通過的是針對黃牛加重處罰，我們也看到，實際上我們修法的重罰就不足以應對這些樣態，網路的黃牛手法跟轉做網路詐騙，衍生出來的問題讓人很難過，我們看到這個數字，111年是114件，但是112年光是到9月份就有三百多件，所以等於是三倍增加，目前我們修過的條文，就是轉售的最高是罰票價加價5倍，用外掛程式或用機器人來搶票的，處三年以下有期徒刑，併科300萬元以下的罰金，但是我們修過之後，剛剛本席說的這個數字也是一直持續在增加，換句話說，目前的執行是沒有辦法去應對的。所以在這樣的情況之下，我們先來講治標，就是重罰、重抓，但是我看到這個數字，112年有一千五百多件檢舉案件，開罰的部分，臺北市只有5件，高雄市12件，總共罰107萬元，面對這樣的問題，次長跟署長有什麼樣的解決之道？在受理的時候，是不是有檢討的空間？怎麼樣簡化程序？請說明。"],["王次長時思：跟委員說明，其實這整個裁罰率的關鍵仍然是取得行為人的個資的問題，就是行為人到底是誰，能不能確認他的行為的確是觸犯文創法。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對嘛！所以本席一開頭就告訴你，我們現在修正通過的法不足以應對很多網路的樣態，你不知道他是誰，你沒有辦法處理，那我們怎麼辦？"],["王次長時思：對，網路的犯罪形態，尤其是詐欺的部分。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，那我們怎麼辦？"],["王次長時思：這個部分可能還是要請警察局，刑事的部分要靠警方來做，我想文化部還是針對藝文票券的部分，跟購票業者及購票平台來協商，儘可能採用實名制的方式，降低這樣的犯罪率。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那我們現在請警政監針對剛剛文化部所說的困難來說明。"],["林警政監明佐：委員好，有關適用文創法以及運產條例的黃牛犯罪行為已經有專法的規定，至於轉成詐欺案件的部分，原本就是我們警方、警政署偵辦的重點，我們對於相關的案類，我們都會積極來做依法偵辦的動作。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：但是是有困難的啊，你們兩個部門的介面是有斷點的，文化部這麼困難，你們也很努力在抓，但是會有困難，你請回座。接下來我要請問，我要把問題全部拿出來，我們在討論的時候才會比較有一個方向，我們看到黃牛黑數的問題，剛剛我們講了，網路的部分，你找不到人，境外網路大量掃票，沒有當面來交易就沒有辦法取締，或者是偷偷換名目，或者是包裝成勞務費去躲追查。"],["王次長時思：只要是加價就是觸法。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，文化部也表示了，在演唱會開賣前，如果雙方約定好，給付代購費，那也不算違法喔，這也不算喔。"],["王次長時思：如果雙方事先約定……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：轉一個彎也不算喔。目前取締的黃牛標準是多頭馬車，所以在這樣情況之下，本席要請教，票券綁商品加價販賣，是不是黃牛行為？是不是？"],["王次長時思：原則上算黃牛，但是要看個案認定，因為有些票券是一開始就有加物件或是加其他的加購，所以仍然要看個案，但原則上如果是高於原來的價格就是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以現在我們面臨到提出修法，但是還是很多人用各種的方式去應對，所以像這樣子的模糊地帶，你們再去檢討，好不好？"],["王次長時思：好，基本上就違法，不可以。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：把方案檢討清楚，對不對？"],["王次長時思：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：加價就是違法，但是他們雙方如果認為是代購，就沒有觸法了。"],["王次長時思：代購指的是事前約定，是一個委任的關係。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對不對？那你怎麼去認定是事前還是不是事前呢？對不對？"],["王次長時思：對，所以舉證是關鍵。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以如果以目前的方式，還是解決不了這個問題。在南韓，採實名制，在日本，他們是用會員制，但是他們也有規定座位不能確定在哪裡，所以更能夠減少黃牛，對不對？那我們可不可能採取實名制？"],["王次長時思：我們也希望，會來研議。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們也朝這個方向嘛，對不對？"],["王次長時思：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，我們一起加油，希望黃牛消失，謝謝。"],["王次長時思：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝楊委員。","接下來，我們請黃國昌委員，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":310,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-10","speakers":["柯志恩","萬美玲","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","葛如鈞","葉元之","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","范雲","張雅琳","吳春城","羅廷瑋","黃珊珊","黃捷","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","邱志偉","張啓楷","羅智強","林倩綺","林楚茵","劉建國"],"page_start":243,"meetingDate":["2024-04-29"],"gazette_id":"1133901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133901_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請文化部、教育部、內政部、法務部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部及行政院主計總處列\n席就「表演及運動賽事黃牛票氾濫，相關單位取締、防範及執法成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1133901_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"151877","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151877","tool":"pyannote","id":"151877-pyannote"},"job_id":"05scXCjEtr68rtMY","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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306.439, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 306.439, \"end\": 306.459, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"李\", \"start\": 316.035, \"end\": 316.095, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"慧\", \"start\": 316.095, \"end\": 316.295, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"琼\", \"start\": 316.295, \"end\": 316.315, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 343.547, \"end\": 343.567, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 343.567, \"end\": 343.667, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 343.667, \"end\": 343.707, \"score\": 0.308}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 343.707, \"end\": 343.727, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,798 --> 00:00:11,353\n謝謝主席楊瓊瓔發言想邀請王政次跟署長好王政次跟鄭署長謝謝\n\n2\n00:00:15,375 --> 00:00:34,221\n兩位好大家都關心因為這是台灣目前也是全世界大家都非常需要的但是這個黃牛跑出來讓大家很難過所以我們要怎麼樣圍堵第一個也就是到目前為止我們的修正通過是針對於黃牛加重的處罰這個處罰我們也看到\n\n3\n00:00:38,823 --> 00:00:44,208\n實際上我們修法的重法仍舊不足以來應對這些樣態這些樣態網路的黃牛手法跟它轉做網路詐騙這個衍生出來是很難過因為我們看到這個數字111年是114件但是112年呢光光到9月份就300多件\n\n4\n00:01:00,624 --> 00:01:02,304\n有期出行那併科的300萬元以下的這個罰金\n\n5\n00:01:22,549 --> 00:01:43,202\n但是我們修過之後剛才本席說的這個數字它也是一直持續在增加那換句話說目前的執行是沒有辦法去應對的所以在這樣的一個情況之下好我們先來講治票重罰重抓那怎麼辦呢但是我看到這個數字112年我們1500多件的檢舉案件你開罰的台北市只有幾件啊\n\n6\n00:01:50,346 --> 00:01:57,671\n臺北市5件高雄市12件總法員107萬面對到這樣的問題次長你有什麼樣的跟署長我們在受理的時候是不是有檢討的空間怎麼樣簡化那個程序請做說明\n\n7\n00:02:11,275 --> 00:02:34,215\n跟委員說明其實這整個裁罰率的關鍵仍然是取得行為人的個資的問題就是行為人到底是誰能不能確認他的行為的確是觸犯這個黃牛這個文創法所以本席一開頭就告訴你我們現在所修正通過的不足以應對你有很多的網路它的樣態不足以應對你不知道要誰犯的形態那我們怎麼辦\n\n8\n00:02:37,197 --> 00:02:59,250\n對那我們怎麼辦這部分可能還是要請警察局跟刑事的部分要靠警方來做我想文化部還是針對在一文票券的部分跟購票的業者跟購票的平台來做協商盡可能的採用實名制的方式降低這樣的犯罪率那我們再請警政監針對剛剛文化部所做的困難來請出說明\n\n9\n00:03:06,653 --> 00:03:25,305\n委員好有關適用文創法以及運傳條例這些黃牛犯罪行為已經有專法規定那至於說轉成詐欺案件原本就是我們警方警政署偵辦的重點我們對於相關的案例我們都會積極來做依法偵辦的動作\n\n10\n00:03:28,703 --> 00:03:28,863\n黃牛票氾濫\n\n11\n00:03:51,850 --> 00:04:02,863\n剛才我們講了你網路的部分你找不到人你境外網路大量掃票沒有當面來教育他就沒有辦法取締或者是偷偷地換名目\n\n12\n00:04:04,164 --> 00:04:24,498\n或者是包裝成勞務費去躲這個追查勞務費去躲這個追查主要是加價就是處罰對所以這個文化部也表示了你在演唱會開賣前如果雙方他們約定好他起付代購費那也不算違法喔這也不算喔他轉一個彎啊他也不算喔\n\n13\n00:04:29,802 --> 00:04:43,596\n那似乎我們目前取締的這個黃牛標準呢他是多頭馬車所以在這樣的情況之下本席要請教票券綁商品加價販賣那是不是黃牛行為\n\n14\n00:04:44,761 --> 00:04:48,824\n現在我們面臨到你所提出但是還是很多人用各種的方式去應對\n\n15\n00:05:05,376 --> 00:05:06,459\n所以像這樣子的魔舞地帶你們再去檢討好不好把方案檢討清楚對不對家家就是違法但是他們兩個如果\n\n16\n00:05:16,035 --> 00:05:16,315\n李慧琼議員\n\n17\n00:05:43,547 --> 00:05:43,727\n主席主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3798\t11353\t謝謝主席楊瓊瓔發言想邀請王政次跟署長好王政次跟鄭署長謝謝\n15375\t34221\t兩位好 大家都關心因為這是台灣目前也是全世界大家都非常需要的但是這個黃牛跑出來讓大家很難過所以我們要怎麼樣圍堵第一個也就是到目前為止我們的修正通過是針對於黃牛加重的處罰這個處罰我們也看到\n38823\t44208\t實際上我們修法的重法仍舊不足以來應對這些樣態這些樣態網路的黃牛手法跟它轉做網路詐騙這個衍生出來是很難過因為我們看到這個數字111年是114件但是112年呢光光到9月份就300多件\n60624\t62304\t有期出行那併科的300萬元以下的這個罰金\n82549\t103202\t但是我們修過之後 剛才本席說的這個數字它也是一直持續在增加那換句話說目前的執行是沒有辦法去應對的所以在這樣的一個情況之下好 我們先來講治票重罰 重抓 那怎麼辦呢但是我看到這個數字112年我們1500多件的檢舉案件你開罰的台北市只有幾件啊\n110346\t117671\t臺北市5件 高雄市12件 總法員107萬面對到這樣的問題 次長你有什麼樣的跟署長我們在受理的時候是不是有檢討的空間 怎麼樣簡化那個程序 請做說明\n131275\t154215\t跟委員說明其實這整個裁罰率的關鍵仍然是取得行為人的個資的問題就是行為人到底是誰能不能確認他的行為的確是觸犯這個黃牛這個文創法所以本席一開頭就告訴你我們現在所修正通過的不足以應對你有很多的網路它的樣態不足以應對你不知道要誰犯的形態那我們怎麼辦\n157197\t179250\t對 那我們怎麼辦這部分可能還是要請警察局跟刑事的部分要靠警方來做我想文化部還是針對在一文票券的部分跟購票的業者跟購票的平台來做協商盡可能的採用實名制的方式降低這樣的犯罪率那我們再請警政監針對剛剛文化部所做的困難來 請出說明\n186653\t205305\t委員好有關適用文創法以及運傳條例這些黃牛犯罪行為已經有專法規定那至於說轉成詐欺案件原本就是我們警方警政署偵辦的重點我們對於相關的案例我們都會積極來做依法偵辦的動作\n208703\t208863\t黃牛票氾濫\n231850\t242863\t剛才我們講了你網路的部分你找不到人你境外網路大量掃票沒有當面來教育他就沒有辦法取締或者是偷偷地換名目\n244164\t264498\t或者是包裝成勞務費去躲這個追查勞務費去躲這個追查主要是加價就是處罰對 所以這個文化部也表示了你在演唱會開賣前如果雙方他們約定好他起付代購費那也不算違法喔這也不算喔他轉一個彎啊他也不算喔\n269802\t283596\t那似乎我們目前取締的這個黃牛標準呢他是多頭馬車所以在這樣的情況之下本席要請教票券綁商品加價販賣那是不是黃牛行為\n284761\t288824\t現在我們面臨到你所提出但是還是很多人用各種的方式去應對\n305376\t306459\t所以像這樣子的魔舞地帶你們再去檢討好不好把方案檢討清楚 對不對家家就是違法但是他們兩個如果\n316035\t316315\t李慧琼議員\n343547\t343727\t主席主席\n","txt":"謝謝主席楊瓊瓔發言想邀請王政次跟署長好王政次跟鄭署長謝謝\n兩位好 大家都關心因為這是台灣目前也是全世界大家都非常需要的但是這個黃牛跑出來讓大家很難過所以我們要怎麼樣圍堵第一個也就是到目前為止我們的修正通過是針對於黃牛加重的處罰這個處罰我們也看到\n實際上我們修法的重法仍舊不足以來應對這些樣態這些樣態網路的黃牛手法跟它轉做網路詐騙這個衍生出來是很難過因為我們看到這個數字111年是114件但是112年呢光光到9月份就300多件\n有期出行那併科的300萬元以下的這個罰金\n但是我們修過之後 剛才本席說的這個數字它也是一直持續在增加那換句話說目前的執行是沒有辦法去應對的所以在這樣的一個情況之下好 我們先來講治票重罰 重抓 那怎麼辦呢但是我看到這個數字112年我們1500多件的檢舉案件你開罰的台北市只有幾件啊\n臺北市5件 高雄市12件 總法員107萬面對到這樣的問題 次長你有什麼樣的跟署長我們在受理的時候是不是有檢討的空間 怎麼樣簡化那個程序 請做說明\n跟委員說明其實這整個裁罰率的關鍵仍然是取得行為人的個資的問題就是行為人到底是誰能不能確認他的行為的確是觸犯這個黃牛這個文創法所以本席一開頭就告訴你我們現在所修正通過的不足以應對你有很多的網路它的樣態不足以應對你不知道要誰犯的形態那我們怎麼辦\n對 那我們怎麼辦這部分可能還是要請警察局跟刑事的部分要靠警方來做我想文化部還是針對在一文票券的部分跟購票的業者跟購票的平台來做協商盡可能的採用實名制的方式降低這樣的犯罪率那我們再請警政監針對剛剛文化部所做的困難來 請出說明\n委員好有關適用文創法以及運傳條例這些黃牛犯罪行為已經有專法規定那至於說轉成詐欺案件原本就是我們警方警政署偵辦的重點我們對於相關的案例我們都會積極來做依法偵辦的動作\n黃牛票氾濫\n剛才我們講了你網路的部分你找不到人你境外網路大量掃票沒有當面來教育他就沒有辦法取締或者是偷偷地換名目\n或者是包裝成勞務費去躲這個追查勞務費去躲這個追查主要是加價就是處罰對 所以這個文化部也表示了你在演唱會開賣前如果雙方他們約定好他起付代購費那也不算違法喔這也不算喔他轉一個彎啊他也不算喔\n那似乎我們目前取締的這個黃牛標準呢他是多頭馬車所以在這樣的情況之下本席要請教票券綁商品加價販賣那是不是黃牛行為\n現在我們面臨到你所提出但是還是很多人用各種的方式去應對\n所以像這樣子的魔舞地帶你們再去檢討好不好把方案檢討清楚 對不對家家就是違法但是他們兩個如果\n李慧琼議員\n主席主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.798 --> 00:11.353\n謝謝主席楊瓊瓔發言想邀請王政次跟署長好王政次跟鄭署長謝謝\n\n00:15.375 --> 00:34.221\n兩位好大家都關心因為這是台灣目前也是全世界大家都非常需要的但是這個黃牛跑出來讓大家很難過所以我們要怎麼樣圍堵第一個也就是到目前為止我們的修正通過是針對於黃牛加重的處罰這個處罰我們也看到\n\n00:38.823 --> 00:44.208\n實際上我們修法的重法仍舊不足以來應對這些樣態這些樣態網路的黃牛手法跟它轉做網路詐騙這個衍生出來是很難過因為我們看到這個數字111年是114件但是112年呢光光到9月份就300多件\n\n01:00.624 --> 01:02.304\n有期出行那併科的300萬元以下的這個罰金\n\n01:22.549 --> 01:43.202\n但是我們修過之後剛才本席說的這個數字它也是一直持續在增加那換句話說目前的執行是沒有辦法去應對的所以在這樣的一個情況之下好我們先來講治票重罰重抓那怎麼辦呢但是我看到這個數字112年我們1500多件的檢舉案件你開罰的台北市只有幾件啊\n\n01:50.346 --> 01:57.671\n臺北市5件高雄市12件總法員107萬面對到這樣的問題次長你有什麼樣的跟署長我們在受理的時候是不是有檢討的空間怎麼樣簡化那個程序請做說明\n\n02:11.275 --> 02:34.215\n跟委員說明其實這整個裁罰率的關鍵仍然是取得行為人的個資的問題就是行為人到底是誰能不能確認他的行為的確是觸犯這個黃牛這個文創法所以本席一開頭就告訴你我們現在所修正通過的不足以應對你有很多的網路它的樣態不足以應對你不知道要誰犯的形態那我們怎麼辦\n\n02:37.197 --> 02:59.250\n對那我們怎麼辦這部分可能還是要請警察局跟刑事的部分要靠警方來做我想文化部還是針對在一文票券的部分跟購票的業者跟購票的平台來做協商盡可能的採用實名制的方式降低這樣的犯罪率那我們再請警政監針對剛剛文化部所做的困難來請出說明\n\n03:06.653 --> 03:25.305\n委員好有關適用文創法以及運傳條例這些黃牛犯罪行為已經有專法規定那至於說轉成詐欺案件原本就是我們警方警政署偵辦的重點我們對於相關的案例我們都會積極來做依法偵辦的動作\n\n03:28.703 --> 03:28.863\n黃牛票氾濫\n\n03:51.850 --> 04:02.863\n剛才我們講了你網路的部分你找不到人你境外網路大量掃票沒有當面來教育他就沒有辦法取締或者是偷偷地換名目\n\n04:04.164 --> 04:24.498\n或者是包裝成勞務費去躲這個追查勞務費去躲這個追查主要是加價就是處罰對所以這個文化部也表示了你在演唱會開賣前如果雙方他們約定好他起付代購費那也不算違法喔這也不算喔他轉一個彎啊他也不算喔\n\n04:29.802 --> 04:43.596\n那似乎我們目前取締的這個黃牛標準呢他是多頭馬車所以在這樣的情況之下本席要請教票券綁商品加價販賣那是不是黃牛行為\n\n04:44.761 --> 04:48.824\n現在我們面臨到你所提出但是還是很多人用各種的方式去應對\n\n05:05.376 --> 05:06.459\n所以像這樣子的魔舞地帶你們再去檢討好不好把方案檢討清楚對不對家家就是違法但是他們兩個如果\n\n05:16.035 --> 05:16.315\n李慧琼議員\n\n05:43.547 --> 05:43.727\n主席主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.798,"end":11.353,"text":"謝謝主席楊瓊瓔發言想邀請王政次跟署長好王政次跟鄭署長謝謝"},{"start":15.375,"end":34.221,"text":"兩位好 大家都關心因為這是台灣目前也是全世界大家都非常需要的但是這個黃牛跑出來讓大家很難過所以我們要怎麼樣圍堵第一個也就是到目前為止我們的修正通過是針對於黃牛加重的處罰這個處罰我們也看到"},{"start":38.823,"end":44.208,"text":"實際上我們修法的重法仍舊不足以來應對這些樣態這些樣態網路的黃牛手法跟它轉做網路詐騙這個衍生出來是很難過因為我們看到這個數字111年是114件但是112年呢光光到9月份就300多件"},{"start":60.624,"end":62.304,"text":"有期出行那併科的300萬元以下的這個罰金"},{"start":82.549,"end":103.202,"text":"但是我們修過之後 剛才本席說的這個數字它也是一直持續在增加那換句話說目前的執行是沒有辦法去應對的所以在這樣的一個情況之下好 我們先來講治票重罰 重抓 那怎麼辦呢但是我看到這個數字112年我們1500多件的檢舉案件你開罰的台北市只有幾件啊"},{"start":110.346,"end":117.671,"text":"臺北市5件 高雄市12件 總法員107萬面對到這樣的問題 次長你有什麼樣的跟署長我們在受理的時候是不是有檢討的空間 怎麼樣簡化那個程序 請做說明"},{"start":131.275,"end":154.215,"text":"跟委員說明其實這整個裁罰率的關鍵仍然是取得行為人的個資的問題就是行為人到底是誰能不能確認他的行為的確是觸犯這個黃牛這個文創法所以本席一開頭就告訴你我們現在所修正通過的不足以應對你有很多的網路它的樣態不足以應對你不知道要誰犯的形態那我們怎麼辦"},{"start":157.197,"end":179.25,"text":"對 那我們怎麼辦這部分可能還是要請警察局跟刑事的部分要靠警方來做我想文化部還是針對在一文票券的部分跟購票的業者跟購票的平台來做協商盡可能的採用實名制的方式降低這樣的犯罪率那我們再請警政監針對剛剛文化部所做的困難來 請出說明"},{"start":186.653,"end":205.305,"text":"委員好有關適用文創法以及運傳條例這些黃牛犯罪行為已經有專法規定那至於說轉成詐欺案件原本就是我們警方警政署偵辦的重點我們對於相關的案例我們都會積極來做依法偵辦的動作"},{"start":208.703,"end":208.863,"text":"黃牛票氾濫"},{"start":231.85,"end":242.863,"text":"剛才我們講了你網路的部分你找不到人你境外網路大量掃票沒有當面來教育他就沒有辦法取締或者是偷偷地換名目"},{"start":244.164,"end":264.498,"text":"或者是包裝成勞務費去躲這個追查勞務費去躲這個追查主要是加價就是處罰對 所以這個文化部也表示了你在演唱會開賣前如果雙方他們約定好他起付代購費那也不算違法喔這也不算喔他轉一個彎啊他也不算喔"},{"start":269.802,"end":283.596,"text":"那似乎我們目前取締的這個黃牛標準呢他是多頭馬車所以在這樣的情況之下本席要請教票券綁商品加價販賣那是不是黃牛行為"},{"start":284.761,"end":288.824,"text":"現在我們面臨到你所提出但是還是很多人用各種的方式去應對"},{"start":305.376,"end":306.459,"text":"所以像這樣子的魔舞地帶你們再去檢討好不好把方案檢討清楚 對不對家家就是違法但是他們兩個如果"},{"start":316.035,"end":316.315,"text":"李慧琼議員"},{"start":343.547,"end":343.727,"text":"主席主席"}]}}}}