{"id":151882,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151882","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e90f54132b1096e6a0590b3cfd3ea397055d9f022d149edd3cba397b1f8b3c9c438b110bf66173085ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"13:30:24 - 13:39:13","影片長度":"00:08:49","會議時間":"2024-04-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查\n一、委員黃捷等20人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十六條、第三十九條及第五十一條條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員林岱樺等20人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第八條、第三十九條及第四十七條條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第二條、第三十九條及第四十四條條文修正草案」案。\n四、委員蘇清泉等24人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十八條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n六、委員葛如鈞等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條及第四十四條條文修正草案」案。\n七、委員徐巧芯等24人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n八、委員陳冠廷等18人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n九、委員黃健豪等17人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n十、委員林宜瑾等26人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例增訂第三十九條之一條文草案」案。\n十一、委員李坤城等22人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n十二、委員沈伯洋等19人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n十三、委員廖偉翔等17人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n十四、委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條及第四十四條條文修正草案」案。\n十五、委員廖偉翔等17人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例增訂第四十一條之一條文草案」案。\n十六、委員王育敏等19人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n十七、委員黃建賓等18人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條及第五十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十八、委員許宇甄等26人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第二條及第三十八條條文修正草案」案。\n十九、委員王世堅等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十、委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十一、委員王美惠等18人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n二十二、國民黨黨團擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十三、委員王鴻薇等25人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十四、委員萬美玲等20人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第四十四條、第五十一條及第五十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n二十五、委員賴士葆等22人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」案...等36案。\n【以上議案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n【4月29日及5月1日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-04-29","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[26,36],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-26,36-1"},"duration":529,"end_time":"2024-04-29T13:39:13+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-29T13:30:24+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1153,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（13時30分）主席，在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生，有請薛部長、通傳會詹主任、數發部張處長、警政署斯副組長和法務部的朱主任檢察官，請你們都上來，省得大家一直走動，因為5分鐘的時間很寶貴。"],["主席：請以上官員都上台，謝謝。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：部長，請教一下，保育類的野生動物是買賣的罪比較大？還是獵殺的罪比較大？"],["薛部長瑞元：都一樣啦！"],["鍾委員佳濱：本席告訴你，不一樣。如果是買賣的話，併科罰金三十萬元以上一百五十萬元以下，但如果是獵捕，就是併科罰金二十萬元以上一百萬元以下，所以買賣比獵捕還嚴重。為什麼？因為買賣造成殺害，有沒有聽過這句話？"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：這次我們修法的重點，因為之前拍攝兒少影像有多案獲得減刑，流傳這些影像的，過去超過兩成是緩起訴或是不起訴，甚至是付錢和解，因為缺乏足夠的認知，甚至不曉得花錢買這些影片有違法之虞。目前我們兒少影像案件增加的原因，就是大家認知不足和法律上的設計不夠健全，是不是這樣？"],["薛部長瑞元：認知不夠健全，的確是這樣。"],["鍾委員佳濱：法律也不夠完整啦！這也是我們修法的目的嘛！"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我們還是要說到創意私房，他們的高級會員可以懸賞影片的類型，一般會員是直接購買之後觀看，但是VIP，像黃子佼這位藝人，VIP可以指定條件，他們會媒合拍攝者，基本上就是因為你預定了，然後有人會去犯罪，是不是這樣？"],["薛部長瑞元：需求刺激供給。"],["鍾委員佳濱：沒有錯。所以呢？關於懸賞影片內容，請教一下主任檢察官，如果我們懸賞看什麼影片，然後有人去拍攝，類似創意私房高級會員懸賞影片的方式，等不等於教唆犯罪、花錢買兇？是不是類似？"],["朱主任檢察官華君：看個案情節，如果他是……"],["鍾委員佳濱：例如我們喜歡看某種類型的影片，請你拍給我們看。"],["朱主任檢察官華君：如果是下訂之後他才去做，這樣就有可能。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好，我們往下看。他們不只購買和懸賞，還可以提供並獲得分潤，也就是會員可以運用虛擬貨幣購買或懸賞取得影片，而且這些兒少性剝削影片提供到創意私房還可以得到分潤。現在我們有一個問題，請教部長，這個案子在4月4日爆發，但是這個交易平台4月10日還在交易，為什麼？既然已經開始對這個平台流通的影片進行查緝，為什麼還可以進行交易？要問誰？誰可以回答？沒有人可以回答？"],["薛部長瑞元：後續還進行交易應該就不是我們……"],["鍾委員佳濱：就是我們的司法行動是否足夠迅速啦！是不是這樣？"],["薛部長瑞元：應該是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：如果有一個犯罪行為在這邊發生，我們還容許它繼續進行犯罪行為，是不是職司犯罪打擊的機關有點失職？"],["薛部長瑞元：應該這麼說，這個創意私房一直有在提供影片，並且做這樣的交易，但是現在這位黃姓藝人的部分如果已經停止，並沒有……"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，這個平台還是繼續讓他們的會員交易。"],["薛部長瑞元：對，就是缺乏預防的功能。"],["鍾委員佳濱：剛才沒有請法務部江參事，也可以請朱主任檢察官回答。江參事在嗎？請上台。如果我們在打擊犯罪的過程當中查獲一個犯罪行為，卻沒有阻止這個犯罪集團繼續犯罪，您認為該怎麼辦？法律有沒有辦法處理？請朱主任檢察官。"],["朱主任檢察官華君：其實創意私房這個案件，臺北地檢署110年的時候有偵辦，當時有查獲大量的共犯，因為那時候事證比較明確，所以那時候就有向法院申請扣押網域名稱。"],["鍾委員佳濱：有扣押網域名稱？"],["朱主任檢察官華君：那個時候。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以這次創意私房黃案爆發後，為什麼沒有即時封網？部長，你覺得為什麼沒有即時封網？"],["薛部長瑞元：在現在的制度之下有兩條路，一條路是要有人檢舉，我們才會針對這個案子進行調查，之後可能進入檢調的調查，檢調調查時當然可以去做扣押，這部分剛才主任檢察官有提到。另外一條路，它不是由法務部行動，是我們接到檢舉，當我們接到檢舉之後，還有一些行政程序要走。"],["鍾委員佳濱：就是下一頁簡報所顯示的，是不是這樣？"],["薛部長瑞元：對，所以沒有辦法迅速封網，也沒有辦法主動……"],["鍾委員佳濱：如果封網之後，它又轉址重生，怎麼辦？未來衛福部有能力主動發現並且封網嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：對，所以這個部分就要用科技的方法輔佐。"],["鍾委員佳濱：數發部，有辦法提供科技方法嗎？"],["張處長學文：是，關於科技的方法，現在國科會已經有一些AI的技術可以運用。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你們願不願意協助？"],["張處長學文：是，我們有在……"],["鍾委員佳濱：數發部願意協助？"],["張處長學文：當然。"],["鍾委員佳濱：NCC呢？封網和你們有沒有關係？目前沒有關係了？"],["詹主任文旭：封網目前是性影像處理中心在集中處理。以前是iWIN網路內容防護機構在處理，去年成立性影像中心，全齡式的性影像都由性影像處理中心處理。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好。它是歸誰管？"],["詹主任文旭：不過如果iWIN接獲檢舉，還是可以協助處理。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以NCC和數發部都要協助衛福部做這件事情。"],["詹主任文旭：是，沒問題。"],["鍾委員佳濱：請問部長，法律方面還有什麼地方需要加強？例如運用網路科技主動查辦？像我們要求修法改為主動巡網，衛福部有辦法主動巡網嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：目前是沒有，所以我們……"],["鍾委員佳濱：誰可以協助你們？現場請了這麼多人讓你點名，你覺得哪個單位應該協助你們？"],["薛部長瑞元：因為我們並不是那麼了解這個技術，目前是在哪裡……"],["鍾委員佳濱：在場有誰清楚？誰可以協助衛福部主動巡網？沒有人知道？那我們今天的法還要不要修？還是直接列入？"],["薛部長瑞元：所以如果部會之間……"],["鍾委員佳濱：你們是委外處理，對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：對，如果部會之間還沒有辦法確定這個技術是否存在於政府機關，我們可能就是要委外。"],["鍾委員佳濱：部長，這就是請各位上台的原因。我們今天要修法，就是希望提供各位趁手的工具去執行，如果科技方面可行，相關部會就要出來擔綱，這樣修法才有用，而不是只靠衛福部。最後，我們再問一下組織犯罪，請問一下，以這個案例來說算不算組織犯罪？要問誰？法務部？還是警政署？你們覺得該怎麼辦案？這是不是組織犯罪？類似這樣的行為，以拍攝兒少性剝削影片為主，可不可以視為組織犯罪？"],["汪參事南均：如果就現在的組織犯罪條例來看的話，它有特別的構成要件。"],["鍾委員佳濱：這個案件有沒有構成？"],["汪參事南均：這個就要看個案。"],["鍾委員佳濱：這個創意私房的目的，就是販售、播放這些兒少性剝削影片。"],["汪參事南均：如果就組織犯罪條例來看，必須是三人以上，最輕本刑五年以上有期徒刑的罪，而且是強暴、脅迫、詐欺、恐嚇等手段，再加上牟利性的構成。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你剛才說的，本席聽起來只符合最輕本刑五年以上的罪，所以還不曉得是否符合啦！"],["汪參事南均：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝。最後，因為主席站起來了，請你們研議未來及時主動發現性犯罪網站，以利立即封網的方案，是不是請衛福部提出方案？哪些單位可以幫忙，你們就直接列明，後續我們修法時會一個、一個把它放進來，好不好？"],["薛部長瑞元：我們儘量做啦！老實說，衛福部的困難就是不知道哪一個單位有能力做這個部分。"],["鍾委員佳濱：不知道就去問嘛！我們今天找這麼多人來，就是要讓你們問。"],["薛部長瑞元：問了也不一定會得到正確的答案。"],["鍾委員佳濱：這就糟糕了！問不到正確的答案，未來可能會有藐視國會罪。好，請你們一個月內趕快提書面報告，謝謝。"],["薛部長瑞元：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。下一位羅智強委員、羅智強委員，羅智強委員不在。","請吳委員思瑤發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":356,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-26,36-1","speakers":["王育敏","黃捷","蘇清泉","郭昱晴","葛如鈞","陳冠廷","李坤城","許宇甄","沈伯洋","王世堅","陳菁徽","王美惠","王鴻薇","張雅琳","何欣純","范雲","林思銘","林月琴","陳昭姿","廖偉翔","劉建國","黃國昌","林淑芬","陳俊宇","王正旭","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","張嘉郡","楊瓊瓔","陳瑩","鍾佳濱","吳思瑤","陳亭妃","林宜瑾","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","李彥秀","蔡易餘","莊瑞雄","楊曜","盧縣一","涂權吉","羅智強","黃仁","沈發惠","羅廷瑋"],"page_start":131,"meetingDate":["2024-04-29"],"gazette_id":"1133701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員黃捷等20人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十六條、第三十九條及第五十一\n條條文修正草案」案；二、委員林岱樺等20人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第八條、第三十\n九條及第四十七條條文修正草案」案；三、委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例\n第二條、第三十九條及第四十四條條文修正草案」案；四、委員蘇清泉等24人擬具「兒童及少年\n性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」案；五、委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削\n防制條例第三十八條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案；六、委員葛如鈞等16人擬具「兒童及少年\n性剝削防制條例第三十九條及第四十四條條文修正草案」案；七、委員徐巧芯等24人擬具「兒童\n及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；八、委員陳冠廷等18人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削\n防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；九、委員黃健豪等17人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分\n條文修正草案」案；十、委員林宜瑾等26人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例增訂第三十九條之\n一條文草案」案；十一、委員李坤城等 22 人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草\n案」案；十二、委員沈伯洋等19人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」\n案；十三、委員廖偉翔等17人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十條條文修正草案」案；十\n四、委員廖偉翔等 18 人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條及第四十四條條文修正草\n案」案；十五、委員廖偉翔等17人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例增訂第四十一條之一條文草\n案」案；十六、委員王育敏等19人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；十\n七、委員黃建賓等 18 人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條及第五十一條條文修正草\n案」案；十八、委員許宇甄等26人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第二條及第三十八條條文修\n正草案」案；十九、委員王世堅等 16 人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」\n案；二十、委員陳菁徽等 16 人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；二十\n一、委員王美惠等 18 人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」案；二十\n二、國民黨黨團擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；二十三、委員王鴻薇\n等21人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；二十四、委員萬美玲等20人擬\n具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第四十四條、第五十一條及第五十三條之一條文修正草案」案；\n二十五、委員賴士葆等22人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」案；二\n十六、委員鍾佳濱等19人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；二十七、委\n員何欣純等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條及第五十一條條文修正草案」案；\n二十八、委員劉建國等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；二十九、\n委員柯志恩等19人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；三十、委員陳素月\n等18人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；三十一、委員范雲等17人擬具\n「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；三十二、委員林俊憲等21人擬具「兒童及\n少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；三十三、委員林思銘等24人擬具「兒童及少年性剝\n削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；三十四、委員張雅琳等25人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條\n例部分條文修正草案」案；三十五、委員陳培瑜等19人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條\n文修正草案」案；三十六、委員林月琴等21人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草\n案」案","agenda_id":"1133701_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"151882","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151882","tool":"pyannote","id":"151882-pyannote"},"job_id":"XPkbSRMvJk4lN2HR","queued_at":"2024-05-31 15:42:04","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 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\"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 506.873, \"end\": 507.213, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 507.213, \"end\": 507.293, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 507.293, \"end\": 507.313, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 507.313, \"end\": 507.333, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 509.452, \"end\": 509.572, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 509.572, \"end\": 509.592, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,462 --> 00:00:22,755\n主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府監事長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請我們薛部長還有通傳會的詹主任、速發部的張處長、\n\n2\n00:00:26,042 --> 00:00:47,671\n警政署的司副組長和法務部的主任檢察官,不好意思,請你們上來,省得大家走路,五分鐘時間很寶貴。我們請以上官員都上台,謝謝。好,部長,請教一下,保育的野生動物是買賣的罪比較大,還是去獵殺的罪比較大?\n\n3\n00:00:49,345 --> 00:01:02,475\n都一樣,不一樣,我告訴你。如果是買賣的話,30萬以下、100萬以下、150萬以下。但是如果你是獵捕的話,20萬跟100萬。買賣比獵捕還嚴重,為什麼?因為買賣造成殺害,有沒有聽過這個話?所以這是我們修法的重點,我們看一下。\n\n4\n00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:37,127\n拍攝兒童影像多案獲得減刑,多數人認為你去流傳這些影像過去曾經獲得環球不起訴,甚至付錢和解也是缺乏足夠認知,甚至不曉得花錢買這些影片有違法之餘。您覺得這是目前我們兒童影像案件增加的原因,就是大家的認知還有法律上的設計不夠健全,是不是這樣?認知不夠健全,這個是第一。法律也不夠完整,我是我們修法的目的嘛。好,我們往下看。\n\n5\n00:01:37,927 --> 00:01:59,228\n其實呢,我還要講創意私房,它的高級會員呢,他可以懸賞影片的類型,一般會員直接購買,然後拿拿拿去看。但是呢,VIP,像黃子椒這個藝人呢,他可以指定,他們是屬於VIP,他們可以指定那種指定條件。然後呢,就有媒合拍攝者,所以這就像是因為你有預定,然後呢,就有人去犯罪,是不是這樣子?\n\n6\n00:01:59,868 --> 00:02:18,025\n需求去刺激到公司。沒有錯,好,我們現在看。所以呢,懸賞影片的內容,我請教一下我們主任檢察官齁。如果說有人去,我要懸賞看什麼影片,有人去拍,那類似創意私房的高級會員懸賞影片的類型,等不同於教、教唆犯罪、花錢買兇,是不是跟你類、類似?\n\n7\n00:02:19,957 --> 00:02:20,617\n那現在我們一個問題是這樣請教部長\n\n8\n00:02:50,517 --> 00:03:08,221\n這個在這個案子他在4月4號爆發之後但是呢看這個交易平台呢在4月10號還有在交易為什麼為什麼他們這個竟然都已經對這個平台上流通的影片開始進行查緝了還可以再進行交易要問誰來誰可以答\n\n9\n00:03:11,434 --> 00:03:30,602\n沒有人可以答?這個所謂的後續還是要交易應該就不是我們這個社區...好,就是我們的司法的行動有沒有夠迅速啦,是不是這樣子?如果他有個犯罪行為在這邊發生了,我們還容許他可以繼續進行犯罪行為,是不是說我們的執司犯罪打擊機關有點失職啊?\n\n10\n00:03:34,564 --> 00:04:01,156\n應該這麼講就說他這個創意司法他一直有在做這個提供影片然後做這樣的交易但是我們現在是這個黃姓的藝人他這一個部分的話如果是已經停止了但是並沒有去對這個平台還繼續讓他們會員來跟他們交易所以缺乏這個預防的來我請教法務部對不起沒有找到我們姜參事不然去問朱主任姜參事在嗎?\n\n11\n00:04:03,536 --> 00:04:13,220\n來來來那你認為如果我們在打擊犯罪的過程當中發生了一個查獲了一個犯罪行為卻沒有去阻止他們這個犯罪集團繼續犯罪這個要怎麼辦法律上有沒有有沒有辦法檢察官好檢察官主任檢察官\n\n12\n00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:42,054\n其實創新私房這個案件我們在110年的時候臺北地檢署有偵辦那時候查量大量都是很多的共犯所以那時候事證比較明確所以就有申請向法院申請扣押網域名稱扣押網域名稱那個時候所以這一次創新私房黃案爆發後為什麼沒有及時封網部長你覺得為什麼沒有及時封網\n\n13\n00:04:44,741 --> 00:05:02,558\n因為這個我們過去在也就是說現在的制度之下的話這兩條路嘛一條路的話就是要有人檢舉然後我們針對這一個可能進入檢調的調查檢調調查當然就可以去做扣押這剛剛主任檢察官有提到\n\n14\n00:05:03,158 --> 00:05:21,848\n另外一個就是,它不是這個由法務部這邊來行動的,是由我們接受到檢舉。我們接受到檢舉的話,我們還要有一些行政的程序。所以就沒有辦法迅速的去做封網。\n\n15\n00:05:25,730 --> 00:05:36,335\n未來會不會有能力繼續主動發現並且封網嗎?對,所以這個部分的話就是要有這一個科技的方法來做科技的方法?速發部有辦法提供這個科技的方法?\n\n16\n00:05:40,570 --> 00:05:57,202\n那科技的方法現在國科會已經有一些AI的技術在…你們願不願意協助?是,有,我們有…出發部願意協助?是,當然是…好,我NCC,來,NCC這跟你們有沒有關係?蜂王跟你們有沒有關係?目前沒有關係了?報告委員,那蜂王目前是性影像處理中心在\n\n17\n00:06:13,715 --> 00:06:41,628\n檢舉還是可以協助...所以NCC跟速發部都要協助衛福部來做這個事情?是,沒問題。好,那,請問部長,法律上還有什麼部分我們要來加強的?譬如說運用網路科技主動查辦,像我們說要求...要修主動尋網,衛部有辦法主動尋網嗎?目前是沒有,所以...那誰要協助你?請了這麼多人讓你點名,你覺得哪個單位要協助你?因為我們並不那麼清楚說這個技術...在場有誰清楚?誰可以協助衛福部去主動尋網?\n\n18\n00:06:43,493 --> 00:07:07,811\n都沒有人清楚,那我們今天法還要不要修,直接寫進去。所以我們就說,如果說在部會之間,如果還沒有辦法確定說這一個技術是存在政府機關裡面的話,那我們可能就是要委外。部長,我是覺得在場的每一位請你們上來就是這樣。我們今天在這邊修法,目的就是希望提供各位趁手的工具可以去執行。那如果,\n\n19\n00:07:09,278 --> 00:07:35,894\n科技上可行,部會單位要出來擔綱,那我們修法才有辦法有用,不是靠衛福部。最後我們看看今天呢,我們再問一下組織犯罪,請問一下以這個案例來講,算不算組織犯罪?要問誰?法務部?還是我們警政署?你們覺得,可以不要判斷,這是不是一個組織犯罪?類似這樣的一個行為,以拍攝兒童性剝削的影片為主的,可不可以視為組織犯罪?\n\n20\n00:07:38,403 --> 00:08:04,406\n跟委員報告一下因為如果就我們現在組織犯罪條例來看的話他有特別的構成要件那這個有沒有到構成?他們這個創意施防的目的就是在販售在播放這些性剝削的兒童性剝削條例是三人以上而且是最輕本金五年以上有期徒刑的罪而且是強暴脅迫的詐欺恐嚇的這種手段再加上他要有牟利性還要有\n\n21\n00:08:07,348 --> 00:08:27,333\n你剛講的我聽起來只有一個五年以上還不曉得有沒有啦好謝謝來最後呢因為今天主席站起來了齁所以我希望未來研議未來及時主動發現性犯罪的網站並立即封案的方案是不是請衛務部提出來然後這些單位哪一些可以幫助就直接把寫明下去未來呢我們在後續的修法當中一個一個把它放進來好不好\n\n22\n00:08:29,452 --> 00:08:29,592\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10462\t22755\t主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府監事長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請我們薛部長還有通傳會的詹主任、速發部的張處長、\n26042\t47671\t警政署的司副組長和法務部的主任檢察官,不好意思,請你們上來,省得大家走路,五分鐘時間很寶貴。我們請以上官員都上台,謝謝。好,部長,請教一下,保育的野生動物是買賣的罪比較大,還是去獵殺的罪比較大?\n49345\t62475\t都一樣,不一樣,我告訴你。如果是買賣的話,30萬以下、100萬以下、150萬以下。但是如果你是獵捕的話,20萬跟100萬。買賣比獵捕還嚴重,為什麼?因為買賣造成殺害,有沒有聽過這個話?所以這是我們修法的重點,我們看一下。\n69480\t97127\t拍攝兒童影像多案獲得減刑,多數人認為你去流傳這些影像過去曾經獲得環球不起訴,甚至付錢和解也是缺乏足夠認知,甚至不曉得花錢買這些影片有違法之餘。您覺得這是目前我們兒童影像案件增加的原因,就是大家的認知還有法律上的設計不夠健全,是不是這樣?認知不夠健全,這個是第一。法律也不夠完整,我是我們修法的目的嘛。好,我們往下看。\n97927\t119228\t其實呢,我還要講創意私房,它的高級會員呢,他可以懸賞影片的類型,一般會員直接購買,然後拿拿拿去看。但是呢,VIP,像黃子椒這個藝人呢,他可以指定,他們是屬於VIP,他們可以指定那種指定條件。然後呢,就有媒合拍攝者,所以這就像是因為你有預定,然後呢,就有人去犯罪,是不是這樣子?\n119868\t138025\t需求去刺激到公司。沒有錯,好,我們現在看。所以呢,懸賞影片的內容,我請教一下我們主任檢察官齁。如果說有人去,我要懸賞看什麼影片,有人去拍,那類似創意私房的高級會員懸賞影片的類型,等不同於教、教唆犯罪、花錢買兇,是不是跟你類、類似?\n139957\t140617\t那現在我們一個問題是這樣請教部長\n170517\t188221\t這個在這個案子他在4月4號爆發之後但是呢看這個交易平台呢在4月10號還有在交易為什麼為什麼他們這個竟然都已經對這個平台上流通的影片開始進行查緝了還可以再進行交易要問誰來誰可以答\n191434\t210602\t沒有人可以答?這個所謂的後續還是要交易應該就不是我們這個社區...好,就是我們的司法的行動有沒有夠迅速啦,是不是這樣子?如果他有個犯罪行為在這邊發生了,我們還容許他可以繼續進行犯罪行為,是不是說我們的執司犯罪打擊機關有點失職啊?\n214564\t241156\t應該這麼講就說他這個創意司法他一直有在做這個提供影片然後做這樣的交易但是我們現在是這個黃姓的藝人他這一個部分的話如果是已經停止了但是並沒有去對這個平台還繼續讓他們會員來跟他們交易所以缺乏這個預防的來我請教法務部對不起沒有找到我們姜參事不然去問朱主任姜參事在嗎?\n243536\t253220\t來來來那你認為如果我們在打擊犯罪的過程當中發生了一個查獲了一個犯罪行為卻沒有去阻止他們這個犯罪集團繼續犯罪這個要怎麼辦法律上有沒有有沒有辦法檢察官好檢察官主任檢察官\n262120\t282054\t其實創新私房這個案件我們在110年的時候臺北地檢署有偵辦那時候查量大量都是很多的共犯所以那時候事證比較明確所以就有申請向法院申請扣押網域名稱扣押網域名稱那個時候所以這一次創新私房黃案爆發後為什麼沒有及時封網部長你覺得為什麼沒有及時封網\n284741\t302558\t因為這個我們過去在也就是說現在的制度之下的話這兩條路嘛一條路的話就是要有人檢舉然後我們針對這一個可能進入檢調的調查檢調調查當然就可以去做扣押這剛剛主任檢察官有提到\n303158\t321848\t另外一個就是,它不是這個由法務部這邊來行動的,是由我們接受到檢舉。我們接受到檢舉的話,我們還要有一些行政的程序。所以就沒有辦法迅速的去做封網。\n325730\t336335\t未來會不會有能力繼續主動發現並且封網嗎?對,所以這個部分的話就是要有這一個科技的方法來做科技的方法?速發部有辦法提供這個科技的方法?\n340570\t357202\t那科技的方法現在國科會已經有一些AI的技術在…你們願不願意協助?是,有,我們有…出發部願意協助?是,當然是…好,我NCC,來,NCC這跟你們有沒有關係?蜂王跟你們有沒有關係?目前沒有關係了?報告委員,那蜂王目前是性影像處理中心在\n357602\t372875\t。\n373715\t401628\t檢舉還是可以協助...所以NCC跟速發部都要協助衛福部來做這個事情?是,沒問題。好,那,請問部長,法律上還有什麼部分我們要來加強的?譬如說運用網路科技主動查辦,像我們說要求...要修主動尋網,衛部有辦法主動尋網嗎?目前是沒有,所以...那誰要協助你?請了這麼多人讓你點名,你覺得哪個單位要協助你?因為我們並不那麼清楚說這個技術...在場有誰清楚?誰可以協助衛福部去主動尋網?\n403493\t427811\t都沒有人清楚,那我們今天法還要不要修,直接寫進去。所以我們就說,如果說在部會之間,如果還沒有辦法確定說這一個技術是存在政府機關裡面的話,那我們可能就是要委外。部長,我是覺得在場的每一位請你們上來就是這樣。我們今天在這邊修法,目的就是希望提供各位趁手的工具可以去執行。那如果,\n429278\t455894\t科技上可行,部會單位要出來擔綱,那我們修法才有辦法有用,不是靠衛福部。最後我們看看今天呢,我們再問一下組織犯罪,請問一下以這個案例來講,算不算組織犯罪?要問誰?法務部?還是我們警政署?你們覺得,可以不要判斷,這是不是一個組織犯罪?類似這樣的一個行為,以拍攝兒童性剝削的影片為主的,可不可以視為組織犯罪?\n458403\t484406\t跟委員報告一下因為如果就我們現在組織犯罪條例來看的話他有特別的構成要件那這個有沒有到構成?他們這個創意施防的目的就是在販售在播放這些性剝削的兒童性剝削條例是三人以上而且是最輕本金五年以上有期徒刑的罪而且是強暴脅迫的詐欺恐嚇的這種手段再加上他要有牟利性還要有\n487348\t507333\t你剛講的我聽起來只有一個五年以上還不曉得有沒有啦好謝謝來最後呢因為今天主席站起來了齁所以我希望未來研議未來及時主動發現性犯罪的網站並立即封案的方案是不是請衛務部提出來然後這些單位哪一些可以幫助就直接把寫明下去未來呢我們在後續的修法當中一個一個把它放進來好不好\n509452\t509592\t主席\n","txt":"主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府監事長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請我們薛部長還有通傳會的詹主任、速發部的張處長、\n警政署的司副組長和法務部的主任檢察官,不好意思,請你們上來,省得大家走路,五分鐘時間很寶貴。我們請以上官員都上台,謝謝。好,部長,請教一下,保育的野生動物是買賣的罪比較大,還是去獵殺的罪比較大?\n都一樣,不一樣,我告訴你。如果是買賣的話,30萬以下、100萬以下、150萬以下。但是如果你是獵捕的話,20萬跟100萬。買賣比獵捕還嚴重,為什麼?因為買賣造成殺害,有沒有聽過這個話?所以這是我們修法的重點,我們看一下。\n拍攝兒童影像多案獲得減刑,多數人認為你去流傳這些影像過去曾經獲得環球不起訴,甚至付錢和解也是缺乏足夠認知,甚至不曉得花錢買這些影片有違法之餘。您覺得這是目前我們兒童影像案件增加的原因,就是大家的認知還有法律上的設計不夠健全,是不是這樣?認知不夠健全,這個是第一。法律也不夠完整,我是我們修法的目的嘛。好,我們往下看。\n其實呢,我還要講創意私房,它的高級會員呢,他可以懸賞影片的類型,一般會員直接購買,然後拿拿拿去看。但是呢,VIP,像黃子椒這個藝人呢,他可以指定,他們是屬於VIP,他們可以指定那種指定條件。然後呢,就有媒合拍攝者,所以這就像是因為你有預定,然後呢,就有人去犯罪,是不是這樣子?\n需求去刺激到公司。沒有錯,好,我們現在看。所以呢,懸賞影片的內容,我請教一下我們主任檢察官齁。如果說有人去,我要懸賞看什麼影片,有人去拍,那類似創意私房的高級會員懸賞影片的類型,等不同於教、教唆犯罪、花錢買兇,是不是跟你類、類似?\n那現在我們一個問題是這樣請教部長\n這個在這個案子他在4月4號爆發之後但是呢看這個交易平台呢在4月10號還有在交易為什麼為什麼他們這個竟然都已經對這個平台上流通的影片開始進行查緝了還可以再進行交易要問誰來誰可以答\n沒有人可以答?這個所謂的後續還是要交易應該就不是我們這個社區...好,就是我們的司法的行動有沒有夠迅速啦,是不是這樣子?如果他有個犯罪行為在這邊發生了,我們還容許他可以繼續進行犯罪行為,是不是說我們的執司犯罪打擊機關有點失職啊?\n應該這麼講就說他這個創意司法他一直有在做這個提供影片然後做這樣的交易但是我們現在是這個黃姓的藝人他這一個部分的話如果是已經停止了但是並沒有去對這個平台還繼續讓他們會員來跟他們交易所以缺乏這個預防的來我請教法務部對不起沒有找到我們姜參事不然去問朱主任姜參事在嗎?\n來來來那你認為如果我們在打擊犯罪的過程當中發生了一個查獲了一個犯罪行為卻沒有去阻止他們這個犯罪集團繼續犯罪這個要怎麼辦法律上有沒有有沒有辦法檢察官好檢察官主任檢察官\n其實創新私房這個案件我們在110年的時候臺北地檢署有偵辦那時候查量大量都是很多的共犯所以那時候事證比較明確所以就有申請向法院申請扣押網域名稱扣押網域名稱那個時候所以這一次創新私房黃案爆發後為什麼沒有及時封網部長你覺得為什麼沒有及時封網\n因為這個我們過去在也就是說現在的制度之下的話這兩條路嘛一條路的話就是要有人檢舉然後我們針對這一個可能進入檢調的調查檢調調查當然就可以去做扣押這剛剛主任檢察官有提到\n另外一個就是,它不是這個由法務部這邊來行動的,是由我們接受到檢舉。我們接受到檢舉的話,我們還要有一些行政的程序。所以就沒有辦法迅速的去做封網。\n未來會不會有能力繼續主動發現並且封網嗎?對,所以這個部分的話就是要有這一個科技的方法來做科技的方法?速發部有辦法提供這個科技的方法?\n那科技的方法現在國科會已經有一些AI的技術在…你們願不願意協助?是,有,我們有…出發部願意協助?是,當然是…好,我NCC,來,NCC這跟你們有沒有關係?蜂王跟你們有沒有關係?目前沒有關係了?報告委員,那蜂王目前是性影像處理中心在\n。\n檢舉還是可以協助...所以NCC跟速發部都要協助衛福部來做這個事情?是,沒問題。好,那,請問部長,法律上還有什麼部分我們要來加強的?譬如說運用網路科技主動查辦,像我們說要求...要修主動尋網,衛部有辦法主動尋網嗎?目前是沒有,所以...那誰要協助你?請了這麼多人讓你點名,你覺得哪個單位要協助你?因為我們並不那麼清楚說這個技術...在場有誰清楚?誰可以協助衛福部去主動尋網?\n都沒有人清楚,那我們今天法還要不要修,直接寫進去。所以我們就說,如果說在部會之間,如果還沒有辦法確定說這一個技術是存在政府機關裡面的話,那我們可能就是要委外。部長,我是覺得在場的每一位請你們上來就是這樣。我們今天在這邊修法,目的就是希望提供各位趁手的工具可以去執行。那如果,\n科技上可行,部會單位要出來擔綱,那我們修法才有辦法有用,不是靠衛福部。最後我們看看今天呢,我們再問一下組織犯罪,請問一下以這個案例來講,算不算組織犯罪?要問誰?法務部?還是我們警政署?你們覺得,可以不要判斷,這是不是一個組織犯罪?類似這樣的一個行為,以拍攝兒童性剝削的影片為主的,可不可以視為組織犯罪?\n跟委員報告一下因為如果就我們現在組織犯罪條例來看的話他有特別的構成要件那這個有沒有到構成?他們這個創意施防的目的就是在販售在播放這些性剝削的兒童性剝削條例是三人以上而且是最輕本金五年以上有期徒刑的罪而且是強暴脅迫的詐欺恐嚇的這種手段再加上他要有牟利性還要有\n你剛講的我聽起來只有一個五年以上還不曉得有沒有啦好謝謝來最後呢因為今天主席站起來了齁所以我希望未來研議未來及時主動發現性犯罪的網站並立即封案的方案是不是請衛務部提出來然後這些單位哪一些可以幫助就直接把寫明下去未來呢我們在後續的修法當中一個一個把它放進來好不好\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.462 --> 00:22.755\n主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府監事長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請我們薛部長還有通傳會的詹主任、速發部的張處長、\n\n00:26.042 --> 00:47.671\n警政署的司副組長和法務部的主任檢察官,不好意思,請你們上來,省得大家走路,五分鐘時間很寶貴。我們請以上官員都上台,謝謝。好,部長,請教一下,保育的野生動物是買賣的罪比較大,還是去獵殺的罪比較大?\n\n00:49.345 --> 01:02.475\n都一樣,不一樣,我告訴你。如果是買賣的話,30萬以下、100萬以下、150萬以下。但是如果你是獵捕的話,20萬跟100萬。買賣比獵捕還嚴重,為什麼?因為買賣造成殺害,有沒有聽過這個話?所以這是我們修法的重點,我們看一下。\n\n01:09.480 --> 01:37.127\n拍攝兒童影像多案獲得減刑,多數人認為你去流傳這些影像過去曾經獲得環球不起訴,甚至付錢和解也是缺乏足夠認知,甚至不曉得花錢買這些影片有違法之餘。您覺得這是目前我們兒童影像案件增加的原因,就是大家的認知還有法律上的設計不夠健全,是不是這樣?認知不夠健全,這個是第一。法律也不夠完整,我是我們修法的目的嘛。好,我們往下看。\n\n01:37.927 --> 01:59.228\n其實呢,我還要講創意私房,它的高級會員呢,他可以懸賞影片的類型,一般會員直接購買,然後拿拿拿去看。但是呢,VIP,像黃子椒這個藝人呢,他可以指定,他們是屬於VIP,他們可以指定那種指定條件。然後呢,就有媒合拍攝者,所以這就像是因為你有預定,然後呢,就有人去犯罪,是不是這樣子?\n\n01:59.868 --> 02:18.025\n需求去刺激到公司。沒有錯,好,我們現在看。所以呢,懸賞影片的內容,我請教一下我們主任檢察官齁。如果說有人去,我要懸賞看什麼影片,有人去拍,那類似創意私房的高級會員懸賞影片的類型,等不同於教、教唆犯罪、花錢買兇,是不是跟你類、類似?\n\n02:19.957 --> 02:20.617\n那現在我們一個問題是這樣請教部長\n\n02:50.517 --> 03:08.221\n這個在這個案子他在4月4號爆發之後但是呢看這個交易平台呢在4月10號還有在交易為什麼為什麼他們這個竟然都已經對這個平台上流通的影片開始進行查緝了還可以再進行交易要問誰來誰可以答\n\n03:11.434 --> 03:30.602\n沒有人可以答?這個所謂的後續還是要交易應該就不是我們這個社區...好,就是我們的司法的行動有沒有夠迅速啦,是不是這樣子?如果他有個犯罪行為在這邊發生了,我們還容許他可以繼續進行犯罪行為,是不是說我們的執司犯罪打擊機關有點失職啊?\n\n03:34.564 --> 04:01.156\n應該這麼講就說他這個創意司法他一直有在做這個提供影片然後做這樣的交易但是我們現在是這個黃姓的藝人他這一個部分的話如果是已經停止了但是並沒有去對這個平台還繼續讓他們會員來跟他們交易所以缺乏這個預防的來我請教法務部對不起沒有找到我們姜參事不然去問朱主任姜參事在嗎?\n\n04:03.536 --> 04:13.220\n來來來那你認為如果我們在打擊犯罪的過程當中發生了一個查獲了一個犯罪行為卻沒有去阻止他們這個犯罪集團繼續犯罪這個要怎麼辦法律上有沒有有沒有辦法檢察官好檢察官主任檢察官\n\n04:22.120 --> 04:42.054\n其實創新私房這個案件我們在110年的時候臺北地檢署有偵辦那時候查量大量都是很多的共犯所以那時候事證比較明確所以就有申請向法院申請扣押網域名稱扣押網域名稱那個時候所以這一次創新私房黃案爆發後為什麼沒有及時封網部長你覺得為什麼沒有及時封網\n\n04:44.741 --> 05:02.558\n因為這個我們過去在也就是說現在的制度之下的話這兩條路嘛一條路的話就是要有人檢舉然後我們針對這一個可能進入檢調的調查檢調調查當然就可以去做扣押這剛剛主任檢察官有提到\n\n05:03.158 --> 05:21.848\n另外一個就是,它不是這個由法務部這邊來行動的,是由我們接受到檢舉。我們接受到檢舉的話,我們還要有一些行政的程序。所以就沒有辦法迅速的去做封網。\n\n05:25.730 --> 05:36.335\n未來會不會有能力繼續主動發現並且封網嗎?對,所以這個部分的話就是要有這一個科技的方法來做科技的方法?速發部有辦法提供這個科技的方法?\n\n05:40.570 --> 05:57.202\n那科技的方法現在國科會已經有一些AI的技術在…你們願不願意協助?是,有,我們有…出發部願意協助?是,當然是…好,我NCC,來,NCC這跟你們有沒有關係?蜂王跟你們有沒有關係?目前沒有關係了?報告委員,那蜂王目前是性影像處理中心在\n\n06:13.715 --> 06:41.628\n檢舉還是可以協助...所以NCC跟速發部都要協助衛福部來做這個事情?是,沒問題。好,那,請問部長,法律上還有什麼部分我們要來加強的?譬如說運用網路科技主動查辦,像我們說要求...要修主動尋網,衛部有辦法主動尋網嗎?目前是沒有,所以...那誰要協助你?請了這麼多人讓你點名,你覺得哪個單位要協助你?因為我們並不那麼清楚說這個技術...在場有誰清楚?誰可以協助衛福部去主動尋網?\n\n06:43.493 --> 07:07.811\n都沒有人清楚,那我們今天法還要不要修,直接寫進去。所以我們就說,如果說在部會之間,如果還沒有辦法確定說這一個技術是存在政府機關裡面的話,那我們可能就是要委外。部長,我是覺得在場的每一位請你們上來就是這樣。我們今天在這邊修法,目的就是希望提供各位趁手的工具可以去執行。那如果,\n\n07:09.278 --> 07:35.894\n科技上可行,部會單位要出來擔綱,那我們修法才有辦法有用,不是靠衛福部。最後我們看看今天呢,我們再問一下組織犯罪,請問一下以這個案例來講,算不算組織犯罪?要問誰?法務部?還是我們警政署?你們覺得,可以不要判斷,這是不是一個組織犯罪?類似這樣的一個行為,以拍攝兒童性剝削的影片為主的,可不可以視為組織犯罪?\n\n07:38.403 --> 08:04.406\n跟委員報告一下因為如果就我們現在組織犯罪條例來看的話他有特別的構成要件那這個有沒有到構成?他們這個創意施防的目的就是在販售在播放這些性剝削的兒童性剝削條例是三人以上而且是最輕本金五年以上有期徒刑的罪而且是強暴脅迫的詐欺恐嚇的這種手段再加上他要有牟利性還要有\n\n08:07.348 --> 08:27.333\n你剛講的我聽起來只有一個五年以上還不曉得有沒有啦好謝謝來最後呢因為今天主席站起來了齁所以我希望未來研議未來及時主動發現性犯罪的網站並立即封案的方案是不是請衛務部提出來然後這些單位哪一些可以幫助就直接把寫明下去未來呢我們在後續的修法當中一個一個把它放進來好不好\n\n08:29.452 --> 08:29.592\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.462,"end":22.755,"text":"主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府監事長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請我們薛部長還有通傳會的詹主任、速發部的張處長、"},{"start":26.042,"end":47.671,"text":"警政署的司副組長和法務部的主任檢察官,不好意思,請你們上來,省得大家走路,五分鐘時間很寶貴。我們請以上官員都上台,謝謝。好,部長,請教一下,保育的野生動物是買賣的罪比較大,還是去獵殺的罪比較大?"},{"start":49.345,"end":62.475,"text":"都一樣,不一樣,我告訴你。如果是買賣的話,30萬以下、100萬以下、150萬以下。但是如果你是獵捕的話,20萬跟100萬。買賣比獵捕還嚴重,為什麼?因為買賣造成殺害,有沒有聽過這個話?所以這是我們修法的重點,我們看一下。"},{"start":69.48,"end":97.127,"text":"拍攝兒童影像多案獲得減刑,多數人認為你去流傳這些影像過去曾經獲得環球不起訴,甚至付錢和解也是缺乏足夠認知,甚至不曉得花錢買這些影片有違法之餘。您覺得這是目前我們兒童影像案件增加的原因,就是大家的認知還有法律上的設計不夠健全,是不是這樣?認知不夠健全,這個是第一。法律也不夠完整,我是我們修法的目的嘛。好,我們往下看。"},{"start":97.927,"end":119.228,"text":"其實呢,我還要講創意私房,它的高級會員呢,他可以懸賞影片的類型,一般會員直接購買,然後拿拿拿去看。但是呢,VIP,像黃子椒這個藝人呢,他可以指定,他們是屬於VIP,他們可以指定那種指定條件。然後呢,就有媒合拍攝者,所以這就像是因為你有預定,然後呢,就有人去犯罪,是不是這樣子?"},{"start":119.868,"end":138.025,"text":"需求去刺激到公司。沒有錯,好,我們現在看。所以呢,懸賞影片的內容,我請教一下我們主任檢察官齁。如果說有人去,我要懸賞看什麼影片,有人去拍,那類似創意私房的高級會員懸賞影片的類型,等不同於教、教唆犯罪、花錢買兇,是不是跟你類、類似?"},{"start":139.957,"end":140.617,"text":"那現在我們一個問題是這樣請教部長"},{"start":170.517,"end":188.221,"text":"這個在這個案子他在4月4號爆發之後但是呢看這個交易平台呢在4月10號還有在交易為什麼為什麼他們這個竟然都已經對這個平台上流通的影片開始進行查緝了還可以再進行交易要問誰來誰可以答"},{"start":191.434,"end":210.602,"text":"沒有人可以答?這個所謂的後續還是要交易應該就不是我們這個社區...好,就是我們的司法的行動有沒有夠迅速啦,是不是這樣子?如果他有個犯罪行為在這邊發生了,我們還容許他可以繼續進行犯罪行為,是不是說我們的執司犯罪打擊機關有點失職啊?"},{"start":214.564,"end":241.156,"text":"應該這麼講就說他這個創意司法他一直有在做這個提供影片然後做這樣的交易但是我們現在是這個黃姓的藝人他這一個部分的話如果是已經停止了但是並沒有去對這個平台還繼續讓他們會員來跟他們交易所以缺乏這個預防的來我請教法務部對不起沒有找到我們姜參事不然去問朱主任姜參事在嗎?"},{"start":243.536,"end":253.22,"text":"來來來那你認為如果我們在打擊犯罪的過程當中發生了一個查獲了一個犯罪行為卻沒有去阻止他們這個犯罪集團繼續犯罪這個要怎麼辦法律上有沒有有沒有辦法檢察官好檢察官主任檢察官"},{"start":262.12,"end":282.054,"text":"其實創新私房這個案件我們在110年的時候臺北地檢署有偵辦那時候查量大量都是很多的共犯所以那時候事證比較明確所以就有申請向法院申請扣押網域名稱扣押網域名稱那個時候所以這一次創新私房黃案爆發後為什麼沒有及時封網部長你覺得為什麼沒有及時封網"},{"start":284.741,"end":302.558,"text":"因為這個我們過去在也就是說現在的制度之下的話這兩條路嘛一條路的話就是要有人檢舉然後我們針對這一個可能進入檢調的調查檢調調查當然就可以去做扣押這剛剛主任檢察官有提到"},{"start":303.158,"end":321.848,"text":"另外一個就是,它不是這個由法務部這邊來行動的,是由我們接受到檢舉。我們接受到檢舉的話,我們還要有一些行政的程序。所以就沒有辦法迅速的去做封網。"},{"start":325.73,"end":336.335,"text":"未來會不會有能力繼續主動發現並且封網嗎?對,所以這個部分的話就是要有這一個科技的方法來做科技的方法?速發部有辦法提供這個科技的方法?"},{"start":340.57,"end":357.202,"text":"那科技的方法現在國科會已經有一些AI的技術在…你們願不願意協助?是,有,我們有…出發部願意協助?是,當然是…好,我NCC,來,NCC這跟你們有沒有關係?蜂王跟你們有沒有關係?目前沒有關係了?報告委員,那蜂王目前是性影像處理中心在"},{"start":357.602,"end":372.875,"text":"。"},{"start":373.715,"end":401.628,"text":"檢舉還是可以協助...所以NCC跟速發部都要協助衛福部來做這個事情?是,沒問題。好,那,請問部長,法律上還有什麼部分我們要來加強的?譬如說運用網路科技主動查辦,像我們說要求...要修主動尋網,衛部有辦法主動尋網嗎?目前是沒有,所以...那誰要協助你?請了這麼多人讓你點名,你覺得哪個單位要協助你?因為我們並不那麼清楚說這個技術...在場有誰清楚?誰可以協助衛福部去主動尋網?"},{"start":403.493,"end":427.811,"text":"都沒有人清楚,那我們今天法還要不要修,直接寫進去。所以我們就說,如果說在部會之間,如果還沒有辦法確定說這一個技術是存在政府機關裡面的話,那我們可能就是要委外。部長,我是覺得在場的每一位請你們上來就是這樣。我們今天在這邊修法,目的就是希望提供各位趁手的工具可以去執行。那如果,"},{"start":429.278,"end":455.894,"text":"科技上可行,部會單位要出來擔綱,那我們修法才有辦法有用,不是靠衛福部。最後我們看看今天呢,我們再問一下組織犯罪,請問一下以這個案例來講,算不算組織犯罪?要問誰?法務部?還是我們警政署?你們覺得,可以不要判斷,這是不是一個組織犯罪?類似這樣的一個行為,以拍攝兒童性剝削的影片為主的,可不可以視為組織犯罪?"},{"start":458.403,"end":484.406,"text":"跟委員報告一下因為如果就我們現在組織犯罪條例來看的話他有特別的構成要件那這個有沒有到構成?他們這個創意施防的目的就是在販售在播放這些性剝削的兒童性剝削條例是三人以上而且是最輕本金五年以上有期徒刑的罪而且是強暴脅迫的詐欺恐嚇的這種手段再加上他要有牟利性還要有"},{"start":487.348,"end":507.333,"text":"你剛講的我聽起來只有一個五年以上還不曉得有沒有啦好謝謝來最後呢因為今天主席站起來了齁所以我希望未來研議未來及時主動發現性犯罪的網站並立即封案的方案是不是請衛務部提出來然後這些單位哪一些可以幫助就直接把寫明下去未來呢我們在後續的修法當中一個一個把它放進來好不好"},{"start":509.452,"end":509.592,"text":"主席"}]}}}}