{"id":151887,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151887","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e90f54132b1096e663d88f345df1d605055d9f022d149edd3cba397b1f8b3c9c4f9b3a3ebaff58bd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"14:04:06 - 14:09:18","影片長度":"00:05:12","會議時間":"2024-04-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查\n一、委員黃捷等20人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十六條、第三十九條及第五十一條條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員林岱樺等20人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第八條、第三十九條及第四十七條條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第二條、第三十九條及第四十四條條文修正草案」案。\n四、委員蘇清泉等24人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十八條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n六、委員葛如鈞等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條及第四十四條條文修正草案」案。\n七、委員徐巧芯等24人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n八、委員陳冠廷等18人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n九、委員黃健豪等17人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n十、委員林宜瑾等26人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例增訂第三十九條之一條文草案」案。\n十一、委員李坤城等22人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n十二、委員沈伯洋等19人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n十三、委員廖偉翔等17人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n十四、委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條及第四十四條條文修正草案」案。\n十五、委員廖偉翔等17人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例增訂第四十一條之一條文草案」案。\n十六、委員王育敏等19人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n十七、委員黃建賓等18人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條及第五十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十八、委員許宇甄等26人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第二條及第三十八條條文修正草案」案。\n十九、委員王世堅等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十、委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十一、委員王美惠等18人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n二十二、國民黨黨團擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十三、委員王鴻薇等25人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十四、委員萬美玲等20人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第四十四條、第五十一條及第五十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n二十五、委員賴士葆等22人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」案...等36案。\n【以上議案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n【4月29日及5月1日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-04-29","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[26,36],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-26,36-1"},"duration":312,"end_time":"2024-04-29T14:09:18+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-29T14:04:06+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1329,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（14時4分）好，謝謝主席。一樣有請部長，謝謝。"],["主席：請薛部長。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["陳委員培瑜：部長午安，辛苦了。之前在4月15日質詢的時候，當時已經拜託衛福部跟其他部會通力合作，一個月內評估配套措施，如何斷絕所謂的金流，不知道到目前為止，相關討論的進度或者是在後續討論的法條當中，目前的規劃跟可能的想像會是什麼？"],["薛部長瑞元：我們有開過會，在4月25日開過會，但各個單位都說這個問題很難處理。"],["陳委員培瑜：金流的部分很難處理。"],["薛部長瑞元：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：真的，對，沒錯。還有您剛剛說的，還有各式各樣的支付。但是如果沒有處理金流，我相信部長你一定也認同，我相信在你們召開的會議上，一定還有人提出，如果沒辦法處理，我們到底還有什麼方法？怎麼辦？"],["薛部長瑞元：如果各方面的意見都覺得沒有辦法處理，衛福部真的是拿不出什麼辦法。"],["陳委員培瑜：不過我確實聽到這個回覆，有一點震驚。但是我想我們之後也許可以再一起想想辦法。但是談金流，確實我們也看到在這一次的案件當中，其實有民間企業金融犯罪調查師，他們有幫忙分析這一次的金流，譬如有多少人花錢、金流上下游的關係，還有如何推敲真實的身分。他們的報告應該也會提供給執法單位追查，去找這個犯罪集團背後的脈絡。可是我們要說，這個不法金流的機制要斷絕，如果真的有困難，到底我們未來還可以做哪些比較積極的措施？"],["薛部長瑞元：剛剛委員提到的是洗錢防制法。"],["陳委員培瑜：是。"],["薛部長瑞元：以洗錢防制來看，目前國內有法，也有執行的單位，技術上、理論上來講不會沒有啦，一定會有這個技術，所以才能夠防制洗錢。"],["陳委員培瑜：是。"],["薛部長瑞元：臺灣還沒有碰到恐怖攻擊，哪一天如果碰到了，一定也會有這種技術，這在國外都有。現在我們怎麼樣把這些技術引進到臺灣，然後把它建立起來，以臺灣作為一個數位科技那麼發達的地方，我是不相信沒有能力處理這樣的問題。"],["陳委員培瑜：我聽到部長這句話，非常欣慰。以臺灣的數位科技這麼發達，臺灣的工程師也很厲害，全世界前幾名的絕對是在臺灣，但是我們卻沒有辦法解決這個問題。不過我相信雖然在前面幾次的會議上……"],["薛部長瑞元：可能是衛福部沒有能力來解決這個問題啦。"],["陳委員培瑜：但是如同您剛剛說，只要跟科技有關，確實要跨部會一起討論嘛，所以我相信，就算520之後部長您不在，這個事情必須內部持續討論，是不是還是可以請部長公開的承諾，後續您在業務交接上絕對還是會把金流相關事情往後再交代，繼續再執行相關的討論。"],["薛部長瑞元：那當然。"],["陳委員培瑜：不管是技術層面或者是跨部會合作困難的地方，或者是到底主管機關是誰，我相信這些困難我們要一起持續面對，對嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝部長。","第二，我想要討論在這一次相關的案件當中，其實很多人都不覺得自己是犯罪者，這個心態我們比較擔心。我們甚至看到很多留言，他覺得他就是花錢買一個東西，然後他也不認識這些人，所以他不覺得自己是加害者，也不覺得自己是共犯。其實我們做教育工作的人最擔心的就是，如果在法治面做調整，在所謂的技術面做了一些調整，可是在心態層面沒有任何教育的推廣，確實日後一定還是會有相關的案件再次發生。部長你自己怎麼看這個部分？"],["薛部長瑞元：我非常贊同委員這句話。事實上，心態不正確，的確導致這個產業一直蓬勃發展。"],["陳委員培瑜：沒錯、沒錯。"],["薛部長瑞元：因為平常我們在買東西，比如買一件衣服，可能衣服有剝削勞工的可能性，當然有它的可責性，但是那有很大部分是勞工願意投入，把它製造出來，但是這種兒少性剝削影片的製造，是違反兒少本身的意願！"],["陳委員培瑜：我想部長一定也知道，還有很多兒少在拍的時候，他去賣這個東西，並不知道後續會產生這個效應。"],["薛部長瑞元：對！"],["陳委員培瑜：這又是另一個教育端的問題。"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["陳委員培瑜：我們辦公室有提出自己的版本，後續會再討論。不過也非常謝謝部長，您剛剛有理解，我們所說教育的部分可以跨部會合作再加強，後續也希望衛福部跟教育部可以持續開展相關討論。以上，謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["薛部長瑞元：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請黃珊珊委員、黃珊珊委員，黃珊珊委員不在。","請李彥秀委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":356,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-26,36-1","speakers":["王育敏","黃捷","蘇清泉","郭昱晴","葛如鈞","陳冠廷","李坤城","許宇甄","沈伯洋","王世堅","陳菁徽","王美惠","王鴻薇","張雅琳","何欣純","范雲","林思銘","林月琴","陳昭姿","廖偉翔","劉建國","黃國昌","林淑芬","陳俊宇","王正旭","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","張嘉郡","楊瓊瓔","陳瑩","鍾佳濱","吳思瑤","陳亭妃","林宜瑾","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","李彥秀","蔡易餘","莊瑞雄","楊曜","盧縣一","涂權吉","羅智強","黃仁","沈發惠","羅廷瑋"],"page_start":131,"meetingDate":["2024-04-29"],"gazette_id":"1133701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員黃捷等20人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十六條、第三十九條及第五十一\n條條文修正草案」案；二、委員林岱樺等20人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第八條、第三十\n九條及第四十七條條文修正草案」案；三、委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例\n第二條、第三十九條及第四十四條條文修正草案」案；四、委員蘇清泉等24人擬具「兒童及少年\n性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」案；五、委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削\n防制條例第三十八條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案；六、委員葛如鈞等16人擬具「兒童及少年\n性剝削防制條例第三十九條及第四十四條條文修正草案」案；七、委員徐巧芯等24人擬具「兒童\n及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；八、委員陳冠廷等18人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削\n防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；九、委員黃健豪等17人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分\n條文修正草案」案；十、委員林宜瑾等26人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例增訂第三十九條之\n一條文草案」案；十一、委員李坤城等 22 人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草\n案」案；十二、委員沈伯洋等19人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」\n案；十三、委員廖偉翔等17人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十條條文修正草案」案；十\n四、委員廖偉翔等 18 人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條及第四十四條條文修正草\n案」案；十五、委員廖偉翔等17人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例增訂第四十一條之一條文草\n案」案；十六、委員王育敏等19人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；十\n七、委員黃建賓等 18 人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條及第五十一條條文修正草\n案」案；十八、委員許宇甄等26人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第二條及第三十八條條文修\n正草案」案；十九、委員王世堅等 16 人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」\n案；二十、委員陳菁徽等 16 人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；二十\n一、委員王美惠等 18 人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」案；二十\n二、國民黨黨團擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；二十三、委員王鴻薇\n等21人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；二十四、委員萬美玲等20人擬\n具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第四十四條、第五十一條及第五十三條之一條文修正草案」案；\n二十五、委員賴士葆等22人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」案；二\n十六、委員鍾佳濱等19人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；二十七、委\n員何欣純等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十九條及第五十一條條文修正草案」案；\n二十八、委員劉建國等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；二十九、\n委員柯志恩等19人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；三十、委員陳素月\n等18人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；三十一、委員范雲等17人擬具\n「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；三十二、委員林俊憲等21人擬具「兒童及\n少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；三十三、委員林思銘等24人擬具「兒童及少年性剝\n削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案；三十四、委員張雅琳等25人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條\n例部分條文修正草案」案；三十五、委員陳培瑜等19人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條\n文修正草案」案；三十六、委員林月琴等21人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草\n案」案","agenda_id":"1133701_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"151887","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151887","tool":"pyannote","id":"151887-pyannote"},"job_id":"GvFq0CRVIvthYlLV","queued_at":"2024-05-31 15:40:09","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 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00:01:40,485\n好,不過我確實聽到這個回覆有一點震驚,但是我想我們之後也許我們可以在一起想想辦法。但是談金流這件事情,確實我們也看到在這一次的案件當中,其實有這個所謂民間企業金融犯罪調查師,他們有幫忙分析了這一次金流,例如說有多少人花錢,金流的上下游的關係,還有如何推敲真實的身份。\n\n6\n00:01:40,985 --> 00:02:02,305\n那他們的報告應該也會提供給執法單位去追查去找這個犯罪集團背後的脈絡可是我們要說這個不法經流的機制要斷絕他這件事情如果真的有困難那到底我們未來還可以做哪些比較積極的措施因為剛剛委員提到的那個是這個洗錢防治法是是是\n\n7\n00:02:02,665 --> 00:02:25,296\n那洗錢防制以目前國內有法,然後也有執行的單位,所以技術上、理論上來講的話是不會沒有啦,一定會有這個技術,所以才能夠防制洗錢。那台灣還沒有碰到恐怖攻擊,哪一天如果碰到了,那一定也會有這種技術,啊這個在國外都有。\n\n8\n00:02:26,551 --> 00:02:50,344\n現在就是說我們怎麼樣把這一些技術把它引進到臺灣然後把它建立起來以臺灣作為一個作為數位科技那麼發達的一個地方的話我是不相信說沒有能力去處理這樣的問題我聽到部長這句話我非常的欣慰就是以臺灣數位科技這麼發達的地方臺灣也都說全世界工程師很厲害前幾名絕對在臺灣但是我們卻沒有辦法解決這個問題不過我相信\n\n9\n00:02:52,285 --> 00:03:17,070\n雖然在前面幾次的會議上但是如同您剛剛說只要跟科技有關他確實要跨部會一起討論嘛所以我相信我想就算520之後部長您不在但是如果還有在這個事情他必須要內部持續討論那是不是還是可以請部長公開的承諾後續您在業務交接上絕對還是會把這個金流相關的事情往後再交代繼續再執行相關的討論\n\n10\n00:03:18,490 --> 00:03:20,431\nadequatetothecurrentsituation.\n\n11\n00:03:40,222 --> 00:03:40,502\n我非常贊同委員的這句話。\n\n12\n00:04:07,105 --> 00:04:16,354\n那事實上這心態的不太不正確的話的確是導致說這一個產業等於說一直蓬勃發展的一個沒錯沒錯因為\n\n13\n00:04:18,424 --> 00:04:44,201\n平常我們在買東西,可能就是說這個買一件衣服,可能這個衣服那是有一種剝削勞工的這種可能性,那當然它有它的一個可責性,但是那個很大部分的話是這個勞工願意的投入的把它製造出來,但是這一種兒少性剝削的這種影片的製造的話,是違反兒少本身的意願的。\n\n14\n00:04:45,305 --> 00:05:09,967\n那甚至我想部長一定也知道還有很多是兒少他在拍的時候他去賣這個東西他並不知道後續會產生這個效應這又是另外一個教育端的問題那當然我們辦公室絕對有提出我們自己的版本後續我們都會再討論不過也非常謝謝部長剛您有理解我們所說的教育的部分我們還可以在跨部會合作再加強那這個部分我們後續也會希望衛福部跟教育部可以持續開展相關的討論好以上謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6035\t8079\t好,謝謝主席。那一樣有請部長,謝謝。好,請薛部長。\n15703\t16443\t我們有開過會,在25號開過會。\n42691\t64509\t但是各個單位都說這個問題是很難處理金流的部分很難處理齁?真的對沒錯還有就是您剛剛說的還有各式各樣的支付但是如果沒有處理金流這件事情我相信部長你一定也認同不然你們在我相信你們在召開會議上一定還有人提出那如果沒辦法處理那我們到底還有什麼方法?\n67219\t75445\t如果說這樣子的各方面的意見都覺得沒有辦法處理,衛福部真的是拿不出什麼辦法。\n77059\t100485\t好,不過我確實聽到這個回覆有一點震驚,但是我想我們之後也許我們可以在一起想想辦法。但是談金流這件事情,確實我們也看到在這一次的案件當中,其實有這個所謂民間企業金融犯罪調查師,他們有幫忙分析了這一次金流,例如說有多少人花錢,金流的上下游的關係,還有如何推敲真實的身份。\n100985\t122305\t那他們的報告應該也會提供給執法單位去追查去找這個犯罪集團背後的脈絡可是我們要說這個不法經流的機制要斷絕他這件事情如果真的有困難那到底我們未來還可以做哪些比較積極的措施因為剛剛委員提到的那個是這個洗錢防治法是是是\n122665\t145296\t那洗錢防制以目前國內有法,然後也有執行的單位,所以技術上、理論上來講的話是不會沒有啦,一定會有這個技術,所以才能夠防制洗錢。那台灣還沒有碰到恐怖攻擊,哪一天如果碰到了,那一定也會有這種技術,啊這個在國外都有。\n146551\t170344\t現在就是說我們怎麼樣把這一些技術把它引進到臺灣然後把它建立起來以臺灣作為一個作為數位科技那麼發達的一個地方的話我是不相信說沒有能力去處理這樣的問題我聽到部長這句話我非常的欣慰就是以臺灣數位科技這麼發達的地方臺灣也都說全世界工程師很厲害前幾名絕對在臺灣但是我們卻沒有辦法解決這個問題不過我相信\n172285\t197070\t雖然在前面幾次的會議上但是如同您剛剛說只要跟科技有關他確實要跨部會一起討論嘛所以我相信我想就算520之後部長您不在但是如果還有在這個事情他必須要內部持續討論那是不是還是可以請部長公開的承諾後續您在業務交接上絕對還是會把這個金流相關的事情往後再交代繼續再執行相關的討論\n198490\t200431\tadequate to the current situation.\n220222\t220502\t我非常贊同委員的這句話。\n247105\t256354\t那事實上這心態的不太不正確的話的確是導致說這一個產業等於說一直蓬勃發展的一個沒錯沒錯因為\n258424\t284201\t平常我們在買東西,可能就是說這個買一件衣服,可能這個衣服那是有一種剝削勞工的這種可能性,那當然它有它的一個可責性,但是那個很大部分的話是這個勞工願意的投入的把它製造出來,但是這一種兒少性剝削的這種影片的製造的話,是違反兒少本身的意願的。\n285305\t309967\t那甚至我想部長一定也知道還有很多是兒少他在拍的時候他去賣這個東西他並不知道後續會產生這個效應這又是另外一個教育端的問題那當然我們辦公室絕對有提出我們自己的版本後續我們都會再討論不過也非常謝謝部長剛您有理解我們所說的教育的部分我們還可以在跨部會合作再加強那這個部分我們後續也會希望衛福部跟教育部可以持續開展相關的討論好以上謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝\n","txt":"好,謝謝主席。那一樣有請部長,謝謝。好,請薛部長。\n我們有開過會,在25號開過會。\n但是各個單位都說這個問題是很難處理金流的部分很難處理齁?真的對沒錯還有就是您剛剛說的還有各式各樣的支付但是如果沒有處理金流這件事情我相信部長你一定也認同不然你們在我相信你們在召開會議上一定還有人提出那如果沒辦法處理那我們到底還有什麼方法?\n如果說這樣子的各方面的意見都覺得沒有辦法處理,衛福部真的是拿不出什麼辦法。\n好,不過我確實聽到這個回覆有一點震驚,但是我想我們之後也許我們可以在一起想想辦法。但是談金流這件事情,確實我們也看到在這一次的案件當中,其實有這個所謂民間企業金融犯罪調查師,他們有幫忙分析了這一次金流,例如說有多少人花錢,金流的上下游的關係,還有如何推敲真實的身份。\n那他們的報告應該也會提供給執法單位去追查去找這個犯罪集團背後的脈絡可是我們要說這個不法經流的機制要斷絕他這件事情如果真的有困難那到底我們未來還可以做哪些比較積極的措施因為剛剛委員提到的那個是這個洗錢防治法是是是\n那洗錢防制以目前國內有法,然後也有執行的單位,所以技術上、理論上來講的話是不會沒有啦,一定會有這個技術,所以才能夠防制洗錢。那台灣還沒有碰到恐怖攻擊,哪一天如果碰到了,那一定也會有這種技術,啊這個在國外都有。\n現在就是說我們怎麼樣把這一些技術把它引進到臺灣然後把它建立起來以臺灣作為一個作為數位科技那麼發達的一個地方的話我是不相信說沒有能力去處理這樣的問題我聽到部長這句話我非常的欣慰就是以臺灣數位科技這麼發達的地方臺灣也都說全世界工程師很厲害前幾名絕對在臺灣但是我們卻沒有辦法解決這個問題不過我相信\n雖然在前面幾次的會議上但是如同您剛剛說只要跟科技有關他確實要跨部會一起討論嘛所以我相信我想就算520之後部長您不在但是如果還有在這個事情他必須要內部持續討論那是不是還是可以請部長公開的承諾後續您在業務交接上絕對還是會把這個金流相關的事情往後再交代繼續再執行相關的討論\nadequate to the current situation.\n我非常贊同委員的這句話。\n那事實上這心態的不太不正確的話的確是導致說這一個產業等於說一直蓬勃發展的一個沒錯沒錯因為\n平常我們在買東西,可能就是說這個買一件衣服,可能這個衣服那是有一種剝削勞工的這種可能性,那當然它有它的一個可責性,但是那個很大部分的話是這個勞工願意的投入的把它製造出來,但是這一種兒少性剝削的這種影片的製造的話,是違反兒少本身的意願的。\n那甚至我想部長一定也知道還有很多是兒少他在拍的時候他去賣這個東西他並不知道後續會產生這個效應這又是另外一個教育端的問題那當然我們辦公室絕對有提出我們自己的版本後續我們都會再討論不過也非常謝謝部長剛您有理解我們所說的教育的部分我們還可以在跨部會合作再加強那這個部分我們後續也會希望衛福部跟教育部可以持續開展相關的討論好以上謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.035 --> 00:08.079\n好,謝謝主席。那一樣有請部長,謝謝。好,請薛部長。\n\n00:15.703 --> 00:16.443\n我們有開過會,在25號開過會。\n\n00:42.691 --> 01:04.509\n但是各個單位都說這個問題是很難處理金流的部分很難處理齁?真的對沒錯還有就是您剛剛說的還有各式各樣的支付但是如果沒有處理金流這件事情我相信部長你一定也認同不然你們在我相信你們在召開會議上一定還有人提出那如果沒辦法處理那我們到底還有什麼方法?\n\n01:07.219 --> 01:15.445\n如果說這樣子的各方面的意見都覺得沒有辦法處理,衛福部真的是拿不出什麼辦法。\n\n01:17.059 --> 01:40.485\n好,不過我確實聽到這個回覆有一點震驚,但是我想我們之後也許我們可以在一起想想辦法。但是談金流這件事情,確實我們也看到在這一次的案件當中,其實有這個所謂民間企業金融犯罪調查師,他們有幫忙分析了這一次金流,例如說有多少人花錢,金流的上下游的關係,還有如何推敲真實的身份。\n\n01:40.985 --> 02:02.305\n那他們的報告應該也會提供給執法單位去追查去找這個犯罪集團背後的脈絡可是我們要說這個不法經流的機制要斷絕他這件事情如果真的有困難那到底我們未來還可以做哪些比較積極的措施因為剛剛委員提到的那個是這個洗錢防治法是是是\n\n02:02.665 --> 02:25.296\n那洗錢防制以目前國內有法,然後也有執行的單位,所以技術上、理論上來講的話是不會沒有啦,一定會有這個技術,所以才能夠防制洗錢。那台灣還沒有碰到恐怖攻擊,哪一天如果碰到了,那一定也會有這種技術,啊這個在國外都有。\n\n02:26.551 --> 02:50.344\n現在就是說我們怎麼樣把這一些技術把它引進到臺灣然後把它建立起來以臺灣作為一個作為數位科技那麼發達的一個地方的話我是不相信說沒有能力去處理這樣的問題我聽到部長這句話我非常的欣慰就是以臺灣數位科技這麼發達的地方臺灣也都說全世界工程師很厲害前幾名絕對在臺灣但是我們卻沒有辦法解決這個問題不過我相信\n\n02:52.285 --> 03:17.070\n雖然在前面幾次的會議上但是如同您剛剛說只要跟科技有關他確實要跨部會一起討論嘛所以我相信我想就算520之後部長您不在但是如果還有在這個事情他必須要內部持續討論那是不是還是可以請部長公開的承諾後續您在業務交接上絕對還是會把這個金流相關的事情往後再交代繼續再執行相關的討論\n\n03:18.490 --> 03:20.431\nadequatetothecurrentsituation.\n\n03:40.222 --> 03:40.502\n我非常贊同委員的這句話。\n\n04:07.105 --> 04:16.354\n那事實上這心態的不太不正確的話的確是導致說這一個產業等於說一直蓬勃發展的一個沒錯沒錯因為\n\n04:18.424 --> 04:44.201\n平常我們在買東西,可能就是說這個買一件衣服,可能這個衣服那是有一種剝削勞工的這種可能性,那當然它有它的一個可責性,但是那個很大部分的話是這個勞工願意的投入的把它製造出來,但是這一種兒少性剝削的這種影片的製造的話,是違反兒少本身的意願的。\n\n04:45.305 --> 05:09.967\n那甚至我想部長一定也知道還有很多是兒少他在拍的時候他去賣這個東西他並不知道後續會產生這個效應這又是另外一個教育端的問題那當然我們辦公室絕對有提出我們自己的版本後續我們都會再討論不過也非常謝謝部長剛您有理解我們所說的教育的部分我們還可以在跨部會合作再加強那這個部分我們後續也會希望衛福部跟教育部可以持續開展相關的討論好以上謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.035,"end":8.079,"text":"好,謝謝主席。那一樣有請部長,謝謝。好,請薛部長。"},{"start":15.703,"end":16.443,"text":"我們有開過會,在25號開過會。"},{"start":42.691,"end":64.509,"text":"但是各個單位都說這個問題是很難處理金流的部分很難處理齁?真的對沒錯還有就是您剛剛說的還有各式各樣的支付但是如果沒有處理金流這件事情我相信部長你一定也認同不然你們在我相信你們在召開會議上一定還有人提出那如果沒辦法處理那我們到底還有什麼方法?"},{"start":67.219,"end":75.445,"text":"如果說這樣子的各方面的意見都覺得沒有辦法處理,衛福部真的是拿不出什麼辦法。"},{"start":77.059,"end":100.485,"text":"好,不過我確實聽到這個回覆有一點震驚,但是我想我們之後也許我們可以在一起想想辦法。但是談金流這件事情,確實我們也看到在這一次的案件當中,其實有這個所謂民間企業金融犯罪調查師,他們有幫忙分析了這一次金流,例如說有多少人花錢,金流的上下游的關係,還有如何推敲真實的身份。"},{"start":100.985,"end":122.305,"text":"那他們的報告應該也會提供給執法單位去追查去找這個犯罪集團背後的脈絡可是我們要說這個不法經流的機制要斷絕他這件事情如果真的有困難那到底我們未來還可以做哪些比較積極的措施因為剛剛委員提到的那個是這個洗錢防治法是是是"},{"start":122.665,"end":145.296,"text":"那洗錢防制以目前國內有法,然後也有執行的單位,所以技術上、理論上來講的話是不會沒有啦,一定會有這個技術,所以才能夠防制洗錢。那台灣還沒有碰到恐怖攻擊,哪一天如果碰到了,那一定也會有這種技術,啊這個在國外都有。"},{"start":146.551,"end":170.344,"text":"現在就是說我們怎麼樣把這一些技術把它引進到臺灣然後把它建立起來以臺灣作為一個作為數位科技那麼發達的一個地方的話我是不相信說沒有能力去處理這樣的問題我聽到部長這句話我非常的欣慰就是以臺灣數位科技這麼發達的地方臺灣也都說全世界工程師很厲害前幾名絕對在臺灣但是我們卻沒有辦法解決這個問題不過我相信"},{"start":172.285,"end":197.07,"text":"雖然在前面幾次的會議上但是如同您剛剛說只要跟科技有關他確實要跨部會一起討論嘛所以我相信我想就算520之後部長您不在但是如果還有在這個事情他必須要內部持續討論那是不是還是可以請部長公開的承諾後續您在業務交接上絕對還是會把這個金流相關的事情往後再交代繼續再執行相關的討論"},{"start":198.49,"end":200.431,"text":"adequate to the current situation."},{"start":220.222,"end":220.502,"text":"我非常贊同委員的這句話。"},{"start":247.105,"end":256.354,"text":"那事實上這心態的不太不正確的話的確是導致說這一個產業等於說一直蓬勃發展的一個沒錯沒錯因為"},{"start":258.424,"end":284.201,"text":"平常我們在買東西,可能就是說這個買一件衣服,可能這個衣服那是有一種剝削勞工的這種可能性,那當然它有它的一個可責性,但是那個很大部分的話是這個勞工願意的投入的把它製造出來,但是這一種兒少性剝削的這種影片的製造的話,是違反兒少本身的意願的。"},{"start":285.305,"end":309.967,"text":"那甚至我想部長一定也知道還有很多是兒少他在拍的時候他去賣這個東西他並不知道後續會產生這個效應這又是另外一個教育端的問題那當然我們辦公室絕對有提出我們自己的版本後續我們都會再討論不過也非常謝謝部長剛您有理解我們所說的教育的部分我們還可以在跨部會合作再加強那這個部分我們後續也會希望衛福部跟教育部可以持續開展相關的討論好以上謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝"}]}}}}