{"id":151929,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151929","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/75811ef35c27466b0d05c1b882676b301e4149ad024bf7a87f5010e630711919c22e425c45b5ead05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"莊瑞雄","委員發言時間":"10:14:44 - 10:23:35","影片長度":"00:08:51","會議時間":"2024-05-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）委員傅崐萁等33人擬具「國家通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員傅崐萁等41人擬具「國家通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員洪孟楷等25人擬具「國家通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條及第十條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「國家通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案」案。）","date":"2024-05-01","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[36,23],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-36,23-1"},"duration":531,"end_time":"2024-05-01T10:23:35+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-01T10:14:44+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":390,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（10時14分）謝謝主席，有請陳耀祥主任委員。"],["主席：麻煩主委。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員早。"],["莊委員瑞雄：主委早。這就是國會啦，你也看多了，這沒什麼啦！現在的國會政黨鬥來鬥去，這一屆的立法委員無限膨脹，權力要大到什麼地步，每一個人的想像有所不同，但我倒要請教了，2005年的時候你在什麼地方？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：2005年我在學校。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我之所以這樣問，就是讓主委來回憶一下，當初2005年在立法的時候，其實整個立法的沿革它是非常重要，2005年那個時候有通傳會的組織法，第四條第二項規定通傳會的委員是由各政黨來舉薦，並依立法院的席次比例共推薦十五名，行政院長推薦三名，然後交給提名審查委員會進行審查，我今天為什麼會提這些？主要是讓大家來回憶一下，當初的審查委員會也由各政黨依照政黨比例推薦十一位專家學者來組成，而同年12月提出了釋憲，那個時候的行政院長叫做謝長廷，當時的行政院秘書長有趣了，就是即將要接任行政院長的卓榮泰。在隔年（2006年）的時候，大法官做成釋字第613號的解釋，宣告這個條文違憲嘛！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：是。"],["莊委員瑞雄：主委，那個違憲的內容你應該知道吧？請你說明一下。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：基本上來講的話，NCC的人事權是歸屬於行政院院長，為什麼？因為行政院基於行政一體，要對所有施政的良莠負責，這就是責任制的概念。雖然在法律上來講，立法院對於人事同意權的部分，因為透過人事同意權或是透過立法，可以對人事有一點參與或者制衡，但是不可以逾越所謂權力分立的界線，事實上剝奪行政院院長的人事提名權。"],["莊委員瑞雄：這個就講得好，你看今年3月8號傅崐萁委員提出了NCC組織法的修正，裡面就提到通傳會的委員由行政院及各政黨各推薦七名，依照各政黨在立法院的比例來分配名額，也就是大家來分就對了，而且要交由審查委員會來審議，至於審查委員會的組成，由各政黨在立法院的席次比例來推薦。你仔細把它看一看，就跟二十年前的條文一模一樣，被大法官宣告違憲的條文重新又出來了。但是後來不知道他發現了什麼，他又提出另外一個版本，改由立法委員推舉審查委員，這叫什麼你知道嗎？新的手機還是用舊的門號，新瓶裝的還是舊酒，換湯不換藥，同樣都是二十年前已經被宣告違憲的東西了。這個其實就是剛剛主委所講的剝奪行政院的提名權，被立法機關直接在條文當中明定立法院提名審查同意，然後叫行政院來任命，這個在二十年前就已經被講成是違憲的東西，現在再重新提出來，我相信在立法院可以來做一個討論，社會也可以來做一個公斷，獨立機關行政獨立以及受立法院監督的問題，其實這個本來都可以討論。","比如說通傳會、金管會，這些都是獨立機關，一直以來所遇到的問題就是行政獨立跟立法監督有一定程度衝突的地方，可是大家一直在看這幾年獨立運作下來，當然立法院對你們有所批評。獨立機關不僅要取得民主的正當性，也要彰顯立法權對行政權的制衡，可是你去把它做比較，獨立性越低的，它就會跟行政體系越接近，比如國發會、客委會；獨立性越高的，它就會脫離行政首長的掌握，比如金管會、中選會，還有通傳會。為了讓它獨立……其實它也並沒有完全擺脫行政權或者立法權的監督，保留了行政院長對獨立機關重要人士一定的決定權，並把人事同意權留給立法院，避免單一政黨對各獨立機關的影響，其實要怎麼樣做到避免各政黨的干預，並達成獨立機關的目的，一直是臺灣憲政的一個大哉問。來到立法院，陳主委人家在譙你，你笑一笑就好了，因為制度本來就是這樣，站在不同的立場，他著墨的當然就會不一樣或有所不同。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：是。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我剛剛提到大法官釋字第613號，內容其實都講得非常清楚，用簡單的話來講，就是立法院現在有很多手段可以對付獨立機關。比如在野黨這一次一連串的修法裡面，在我看來叫做自己「憨慢」、功夫不好，不知道要怎麼監督，包括預算，或者是在國會裡面透過質詢的方式，他們當然認為是不滿意的，可是他們也忘記當初為什麼要弄這個獨立機關。你注意看他當初在投票的時候，投幾輪呢？投了三輪才投出來，當初民進黨在投票時，你說社會賢達，所以票全部投下去，國親就不一樣了，他們當年的投法就不一樣了，他選擇性地去投。我這樣講，如果讓今天的版本通過的話，會有更大的問題出來。","請主委簡單看一下，我給主委看一下當年的報紙，你看，臺灣各主要的日報談到NCC都是在講泛藍大敗泛綠，NCC委員出來其藍綠比是多少？NCC委員名單出現，國親取得過半，NCC委員名單都是在談這些，都是在講藍跟講綠，這個怎麼會是我們要的獨立機關呢？所以我覺得主委擔任主委這段期間，知道很多人罵你，這段時間，新的人、新的立委進來，問政風格會有所不同啦！也不要洩氣啦！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：謝謝。"],["莊委員瑞雄：但當然要為歷史負責，一個獨立機關該有的風骨我們當然也要，問題是面對國會提出這樣的法案，既然不想再繼續做下去、不再留戀的話，為所當為啦！該向立法院提出這一些針砭的言論也不用客氣啦！不要讓立法委員對你大小聲，因此退縮，也沒有必要，不要做的最大啦！不是這樣說嗎？不要做的最大啦！","這些立委，我一看到這種版本，傅崐萁提這個版本，我們一看就知道他是沒讀書的人，沒讀書的人說出來的，他以為政黨很大，讓政黨的人來分，要用分的啦！分一分之後用選的，選出來後跟人家說行政院長你提名又怎麼樣？通過的都是我的人，這個哪叫做獨立機關？"],["主席：請莊委員注意一下時間。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你想要達到NCC是一個獨立機關，然後卻用政黨分贓，大家來用分的方式，在我看來，重新再提出這種二十年前就被宣告違憲的一個條文，我看你笑在心裡，你不好意思罵我們這些立委而已，我怎麼會不知道呢！謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝莊委員，等一下鍾委員詢答結束之後休息3分鐘。","接下來請鍾佳濱委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":130,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-36,23-1","speakers":["吳宗憲","洪孟楷","翁曉玲","傅崐萁","黃國昌","謝龍介","羅智強","林國成","莊瑞雄","柯建銘","沈發惠","陳俊宇","鍾佳濱","林思銘","吳思瑤","黃健豪","李昆澤","何欣純","楊瓊瓔","蔡其昌","游顥","許智傑","陳素月","徐富癸","魯明哲","邱若華","廖先翔","林沛祥","陳雪生"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-05-01"],"gazette_id":"1133701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"併案審查( 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527.145, \"score\": 0.341}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 527.145, \"end\": 527.165, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 527.165, \"end\": 527.185, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 527.185, \"end\": 527.205, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,693 --> 00:00:11,302\n謝謝主席我有請我們陳耀祥主任委員麻煩主委委員長主委長這就是國會啦\n\n2\n00:00:20,131 --> 00:00:21,431\n通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案案。\n\n3\n00:00:40,988 --> 00:00:57,245\n兩千零五年我在學校在學校我之所以這樣問讓主委來回憶一下當初啊2005年在立法的時候其實這個立法的嚴格來看它是非常重要2005年那個時候有通傳會的一個組織法\n\n4\n00:00:58,291 --> 00:01:00,972\n通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案案。\n\n5\n00:01:23,323 --> 00:01:39,369\n當初的審查委員會由各政黨依照政黨比例推薦11位專家學者來組成。」啊不然呢,同年喔,在12月提出了釋憲,那個時候的行政院長叫做誰你知道嗎?叫做謝長廷。然後當時的行政院秘書長有趣喔!\n\n6\n00:01:40,327 --> 00:01:50,233\n就是即將要接任行政院長的叫做卓榮泰在隔年2006年的時候大法官做成的4-613號的一個解釋宣告了這個條文違憲注意違憲的內容你應該知道你請你算明一下\n\n7\n00:01:57,697 --> 00:01:58,577\n三）委員洪孟楷等25人擬具\n\n8\n00:02:15,443 --> 00:02:31,508\n雖然在法律上來講的話,立法院對人事同意權的部分,因為透過人事同意權或是透過立法的可以對人事有一點的參與或是制衡,但是不可以逾越這個所謂權力分立的這個界限,事實上剝奪行政院院長的所謂人事同意權。\n\n9\n00:02:32,748 --> 00:02:48,256\n你看今年3月8號傅崐萁委員他提出了一個NCC的一個組織法的一個修正裡面去渠道說通訊會的委員由行政院跟各政黨各推薦七名依照各政黨在立法院的比例名額來分啦大家來分就對了啦大家來分啦而且要交由審查委員會的審議審查委員會的組成各政黨在立法院的席次來比例來做一個推薦一仔細把它看一看\n\n10\n00:02:59,542 --> 00:03:03,065\n就跟20年前的條文一模一樣。」被大法官宣告違憲的條文重新又出來了,但是後來不知道他發現了什麼,他又提出另外一個版本,改由立法院推舉審查委員。這叫什麼你知道嗎?新的手機還是用舊的門號啊。\n\n11\n00:03:23,042 --> 00:03:44,237\n新品裝的還是舊酒換湯不換藥同樣都是被20年前已經宣告違憲的一個東西這個其實就是剝奪剛主委講的行政院長的一個提名權那被立法機關直接在條文當中你去定名你幫你提名審查同意叫我行政院來認命這個\n\n12\n00:03:48,783 --> 00:04:12,679\n二十年前已經被講成是違憲的東西那現在再重新再提出來我相信在立法院可以來做一個討論社會也可以來做一個大家來做一個公斷那獨立機關跟行政獨立還有受立法院監督的這個問題其實這個本來都可以討論你像比如說通傳會、金管會這都比較獨立機關\n\n13\n00:04:17,694 --> 00:04:18,555\n立法院對整個對你們有所批評\n\n14\n00:04:34,810 --> 00:04:51,210\n那在一個獨立機關你不僅要這個獨立機關取得民主的一個正當性也要去彰顯立法權對行政權的一個制衡可是你去把它做比較獨立性如果越低的它就會跟行政體系越接近比如說國發會\n\n15\n00:04:52,552 --> 00:04:54,233\n副委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案案案。\n\n16\n00:05:11,340 --> 00:05:32,730\n那保留了行政院長對獨立機關重要人士的一個一定的一個決定權並把人事同意權來留給立法院避免單一政黨對各獨立機關的一個影響啊這個其實啊要怎麼樣做到避免各政黨的一個干預啊並達成獨立機關的一個目的啊一直是台灣憲政的一個大災問啊這個來到立法院喔\n\n17\n00:05:35,992 --> 00:05:40,795\n立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\n\n18\n00:06:02,759 --> 00:06:08,282\n通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案案件,並且擬具:「國家通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案件,並且擬具\n\n19\n00:06:31,834 --> 00:06:32,794\n通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案案。\n\n20\n00:06:58,235 --> 00:07:22,376\n談到NCC都是在講泛藍大敗泛綠。NCC委員出來藍綠比是多少?NCC委員名單出現國青取得過半。NCC委員名單都是在談這些,都是在講藍跟講綠,這個怎麼會是我們要的獨立機關啊?所以我是覺得說注意\n\n21\n00:07:23,937 --> 00:07:25,077\n組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案案。\n\n22\n00:07:50,422 --> 00:07:52,963\n立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案．一．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．\n\n23\n00:08:14,807 --> 00:08:17,729\n通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案．一）委員洪孟楷等25人擬具:「國家通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案．一）委員洪孟楷等25人擬具\n\n24\n00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:47,205\n在我看來,這種20年前就已經被宣告違憲的一個條文重新再提出,我看你是笑在心上,你抱歉把我們這裡入味乾燥而已,我說不知道。好,謝謝。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5693\t11302\t謝謝主席我有請我們陳耀祥主任委員麻煩主委委員長主委長這就是國會啦\n20131\t21431\t通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案 案。\n40988\t57245\t兩千零五年我在學校在學校我之所以這樣問讓主委來回憶一下當初啊2005年在立法的時候其實這個立法的嚴格來看它是非常重要2005年那個時候有通傳會的一個組織法\n58291\t60972\t通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案 案。\n83323\t99369\t當初的審查委員會由各政黨依照政黨比例推薦11位專家學者來組成。」啊不然呢,同年喔,在12月提出了釋憲,那個時候的行政院長叫做誰你知道嗎?叫做謝長廷。然後當時的行政院秘書長有趣喔!\n100327\t110233\t就是即將要接任行政院長的叫做卓榮泰在隔年2006年的時候大法官做成的4-613號的一個解釋宣告了這個條文違憲注意違憲的內容你應該知道你請你算明一下\n117697\t118577\t三）委員洪孟楷等25人擬具\n135443\t151508\t雖然在法律上來講的話,立法院對人事同意權的部分,因為透過人事同意權或是透過立法的可以對人事有一點的參與或是制衡,但是不可以逾越這個所謂權力分立的這個界限,事實上剝奪行政院院長的所謂人事同意權。\n152748\t168256\t你看今年3月8號傅崐萁委員他提出了一個NCC的一個組織法的一個修正裡面去渠道說通訊會的委員由行政院跟各政黨各推薦七名依照各政黨在立法院的比例名額來分啦大家來分就對了啦大家來分啦而且要交由審查委員會的審議審查委員會的組成各政黨在立法院的席次來比例來做一個推薦一仔細把它看一看\n179542\t183065\t就跟20年前的條文一模一樣。」被大法官宣告違憲的條文重新又出來了,但是後來不知道他發現了什麼,他又提出另外一個版本,改由立法院推舉審查委員。這叫什麼你知道嗎?新的手機還是用舊的門號啊。\n203042\t224237\t新品裝的還是舊酒換湯不換藥同樣都是被20年前已經宣告違憲的一個東西這個其實就是剝奪剛主委講的行政院長的一個提名權那被立法機關直接在條文當中你去定名你幫你提名審查同意叫我行政院來認命這個\n228783\t252679\t二十年前已經被講成是違憲的東西那現在再重新再提出來我相信在立法院可以來做一個討論社會也可以來做一個大家來做一個公斷那獨立機關跟行政獨立還有受立法院監督的這個問題其實這個本來都可以討論你像比如說通傳會、金管會這都比較獨立機關\n257694\t258555\t立法院對整個對你們有所批評\n274810\t291210\t那在一個獨立機關你不僅要這個獨立機關取得民主的一個正當性也要去彰顯立法權對行政權的一個制衡可是你去把它做比較獨立性如果越低的它就會跟行政體系越接近比如說國發會\n292552\t294233\t副委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案案 案。\n311340\t332730\t那保留了行政院長對獨立機關重要人士的一個一定的一個決定權並把人事同意權來留給立法院避免單一政黨對各獨立機關的一個影響啊這個其實啊要怎麼樣做到避免各政黨的一個干預啊並達成獨立機關的一個目的啊一直是台灣憲政的一個大災問啊這個來到立法院喔\n335992\t340795\t立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\n362759\t368282\t通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案 案件,並且擬具:「國家通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案 案件,並且擬具\n391834\t392794\t通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案 案。\n418235\t442376\t談到NCC都是在講泛藍大敗泛綠。NCC委員出來藍綠比是多少?NCC委員名單出現國青取得過半。NCC委員名單都是在談這些,都是在講藍跟講綠,這個怎麼會是我們要的獨立機關啊?所以我是覺得說注意\n443937\t445077\t組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案 案。\n470422\t472963\t立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案．一．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．\n494807\t497729\t通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案．一）委員洪孟楷等25人擬具:「國家通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案．一）委員洪孟楷等25人擬具\n520160\t527205\t在我看來,這種20年前就已經被宣告違憲的一個條文重新再提出,我看你是笑在心上,你抱歉把我們這裡入味乾燥而已,我說不知道。好,謝謝。\n","txt":"謝謝主席我有請我們陳耀祥主任委員麻煩主委委員長主委長這就是國會啦\n通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案 案。\n兩千零五年我在學校在學校我之所以這樣問讓主委來回憶一下當初啊2005年在立法的時候其實這個立法的嚴格來看它是非常重要2005年那個時候有通傳會的一個組織法\n通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案 案。\n當初的審查委員會由各政黨依照政黨比例推薦11位專家學者來組成。」啊不然呢,同年喔,在12月提出了釋憲,那個時候的行政院長叫做誰你知道嗎?叫做謝長廷。然後當時的行政院秘書長有趣喔!\n就是即將要接任行政院長的叫做卓榮泰在隔年2006年的時候大法官做成的4-613號的一個解釋宣告了這個條文違憲注意違憲的內容你應該知道你請你算明一下\n三）委員洪孟楷等25人擬具\n雖然在法律上來講的話,立法院對人事同意權的部分,因為透過人事同意權或是透過立法的可以對人事有一點的參與或是制衡,但是不可以逾越這個所謂權力分立的這個界限,事實上剝奪行政院院長的所謂人事同意權。\n你看今年3月8號傅崐萁委員他提出了一個NCC的一個組織法的一個修正裡面去渠道說通訊會的委員由行政院跟各政黨各推薦七名依照各政黨在立法院的比例名額來分啦大家來分就對了啦大家來分啦而且要交由審查委員會的審議審查委員會的組成各政黨在立法院的席次來比例來做一個推薦一仔細把它看一看\n就跟20年前的條文一模一樣。」被大法官宣告違憲的條文重新又出來了,但是後來不知道他發現了什麼,他又提出另外一個版本,改由立法院推舉審查委員。這叫什麼你知道嗎?新的手機還是用舊的門號啊。\n新品裝的還是舊酒換湯不換藥同樣都是被20年前已經宣告違憲的一個東西這個其實就是剝奪剛主委講的行政院長的一個提名權那被立法機關直接在條文當中你去定名你幫你提名審查同意叫我行政院來認命這個\n二十年前已經被講成是違憲的東西那現在再重新再提出來我相信在立法院可以來做一個討論社會也可以來做一個大家來做一個公斷那獨立機關跟行政獨立還有受立法院監督的這個問題其實這個本來都可以討論你像比如說通傳會、金管會這都比較獨立機關\n立法院對整個對你們有所批評\n那在一個獨立機關你不僅要這個獨立機關取得民主的一個正當性也要去彰顯立法權對行政權的一個制衡可是你去把它做比較獨立性如果越低的它就會跟行政體系越接近比如說國發會\n副委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案案 案。\n那保留了行政院長對獨立機關重要人士的一個一定的一個決定權並把人事同意權來留給立法院避免單一政黨對各獨立機關的一個影響啊這個其實啊要怎麼樣做到避免各政黨的一個干預啊並達成獨立機關的一個目的啊一直是台灣憲政的一個大災問啊這個來到立法院喔\n立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\n通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案 案件,並且擬具:「國家通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案 案件,並且擬具\n通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案 案。\n談到NCC都是在講泛藍大敗泛綠。NCC委員出來藍綠比是多少?NCC委員名單出現國青取得過半。NCC委員名單都是在談這些,都是在講藍跟講綠,這個怎麼會是我們要的獨立機關啊?所以我是覺得說注意\n組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案 案。\n立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案．一．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．\n通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案．一）委員洪孟楷等25人擬具:「國家通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案．一）委員洪孟楷等25人擬具\n在我看來,這種20年前就已經被宣告違憲的一個條文重新再提出,我看你是笑在心上,你抱歉把我們這裡入味乾燥而已,我說不知道。好,謝謝。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.693 --> 00:11.302\n謝謝主席我有請我們陳耀祥主任委員麻煩主委委員長主委長這就是國會啦\n\n00:20.131 --> 00:21.431\n通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案案。\n\n00:40.988 --> 00:57.245\n兩千零五年我在學校在學校我之所以這樣問讓主委來回憶一下當初啊2005年在立法的時候其實這個立法的嚴格來看它是非常重要2005年那個時候有通傳會的一個組織法\n\n00:58.291 --> 01:00.972\n通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案案。\n\n01:23.323 --> 01:39.369\n當初的審查委員會由各政黨依照政黨比例推薦11位專家學者來組成。」啊不然呢,同年喔,在12月提出了釋憲,那個時候的行政院長叫做誰你知道嗎?叫做謝長廷。然後當時的行政院秘書長有趣喔!\n\n01:40.327 --> 01:50.233\n就是即將要接任行政院長的叫做卓榮泰在隔年2006年的時候大法官做成的4-613號的一個解釋宣告了這個條文違憲注意違憲的內容你應該知道你請你算明一下\n\n01:57.697 --> 01:58.577\n三）委員洪孟楷等25人擬具\n\n02:15.443 --> 02:31.508\n雖然在法律上來講的話,立法院對人事同意權的部分,因為透過人事同意權或是透過立法的可以對人事有一點的參與或是制衡,但是不可以逾越這個所謂權力分立的這個界限,事實上剝奪行政院院長的所謂人事同意權。\n\n02:32.748 --> 02:48.256\n你看今年3月8號傅崐萁委員他提出了一個NCC的一個組織法的一個修正裡面去渠道說通訊會的委員由行政院跟各政黨各推薦七名依照各政黨在立法院的比例名額來分啦大家來分就對了啦大家來分啦而且要交由審查委員會的審議審查委員會的組成各政黨在立法院的席次來比例來做一個推薦一仔細把它看一看\n\n02:59.542 --> 03:03.065\n就跟20年前的條文一模一樣。」被大法官宣告違憲的條文重新又出來了,但是後來不知道他發現了什麼,他又提出另外一個版本,改由立法院推舉審查委員。這叫什麼你知道嗎?新的手機還是用舊的門號啊。\n\n03:23.042 --> 03:44.237\n新品裝的還是舊酒換湯不換藥同樣都是被20年前已經宣告違憲的一個東西這個其實就是剝奪剛主委講的行政院長的一個提名權那被立法機關直接在條文當中你去定名你幫你提名審查同意叫我行政院來認命這個\n\n03:48.783 --> 04:12.679\n二十年前已經被講成是違憲的東西那現在再重新再提出來我相信在立法院可以來做一個討論社會也可以來做一個大家來做一個公斷那獨立機關跟行政獨立還有受立法院監督的這個問題其實這個本來都可以討論你像比如說通傳會、金管會這都比較獨立機關\n\n04:17.694 --> 04:18.555\n立法院對整個對你們有所批評\n\n04:34.810 --> 04:51.210\n那在一個獨立機關你不僅要這個獨立機關取得民主的一個正當性也要去彰顯立法權對行政權的一個制衡可是你去把它做比較獨立性如果越低的它就會跟行政體系越接近比如說國發會\n\n04:52.552 --> 04:54.233\n副委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案案案。\n\n05:11.340 --> 05:32.730\n那保留了行政院長對獨立機關重要人士的一個一定的一個決定權並把人事同意權來留給立法院避免單一政黨對各獨立機關的一個影響啊這個其實啊要怎麼樣做到避免各政黨的一個干預啊並達成獨立機關的一個目的啊一直是台灣憲政的一個大災問啊這個來到立法院喔\n\n05:35.992 --> 05:40.795\n立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\n\n06:02.759 --> 06:08.282\n通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案案件,並且擬具:「國家通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案件,並且擬具\n\n06:31.834 --> 06:32.794\n通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案案。\n\n06:58.235 --> 07:22.376\n談到NCC都是在講泛藍大敗泛綠。NCC委員出來藍綠比是多少?NCC委員名單出現國青取得過半。NCC委員名單都是在談這些,都是在講藍跟講綠,這個怎麼會是我們要的獨立機關啊?所以我是覺得說注意\n\n07:23.937 --> 07:25.077\n組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案案。\n\n07:50.422 --> 07:52.963\n立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案．一．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．\n\n08:14.807 --> 08:17.729\n通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案．一）委員洪孟楷等25人擬具:「國家通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案．一）委員洪孟楷等25人擬具\n\n08:40.160 --> 08:47.205\n在我看來,這種20年前就已經被宣告違憲的一個條文重新再提出,我看你是笑在心上,你抱歉把我們這裡入味乾燥而已,我說不知道。好,謝謝。\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.693,"end":11.302,"text":"謝謝主席我有請我們陳耀祥主任委員麻煩主委委員長主委長這就是國會啦"},{"start":20.131,"end":21.431,"text":"通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案 案。"},{"start":40.988,"end":57.245,"text":"兩千零五年我在學校在學校我之所以這樣問讓主委來回憶一下當初啊2005年在立法的時候其實這個立法的嚴格來看它是非常重要2005年那個時候有通傳會的一個組織法"},{"start":58.291,"end":60.972,"text":"通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案 案。"},{"start":83.323,"end":99.369,"text":"當初的審查委員會由各政黨依照政黨比例推薦11位專家學者來組成。」啊不然呢,同年喔,在12月提出了釋憲,那個時候的行政院長叫做誰你知道嗎?叫做謝長廷。然後當時的行政院秘書長有趣喔!"},{"start":100.327,"end":110.233,"text":"就是即將要接任行政院長的叫做卓榮泰在隔年2006年的時候大法官做成的4-613號的一個解釋宣告了這個條文違憲注意違憲的內容你應該知道你請你算明一下"},{"start":117.697,"end":118.577,"text":"三）委員洪孟楷等25人擬具"},{"start":135.443,"end":151.508,"text":"雖然在法律上來講的話,立法院對人事同意權的部分,因為透過人事同意權或是透過立法的可以對人事有一點的參與或是制衡,但是不可以逾越這個所謂權力分立的這個界限,事實上剝奪行政院院長的所謂人事同意權。"},{"start":152.748,"end":168.256,"text":"你看今年3月8號傅崐萁委員他提出了一個NCC的一個組織法的一個修正裡面去渠道說通訊會的委員由行政院跟各政黨各推薦七名依照各政黨在立法院的比例名額來分啦大家來分就對了啦大家來分啦而且要交由審查委員會的審議審查委員會的組成各政黨在立法院的席次來比例來做一個推薦一仔細把它看一看"},{"start":179.542,"end":183.065,"text":"就跟20年前的條文一模一樣。」被大法官宣告違憲的條文重新又出來了,但是後來不知道他發現了什麼,他又提出另外一個版本,改由立法院推舉審查委員。這叫什麼你知道嗎?新的手機還是用舊的門號啊。"},{"start":203.042,"end":224.237,"text":"新品裝的還是舊酒換湯不換藥同樣都是被20年前已經宣告違憲的一個東西這個其實就是剝奪剛主委講的行政院長的一個提名權那被立法機關直接在條文當中你去定名你幫你提名審查同意叫我行政院來認命這個"},{"start":228.783,"end":252.679,"text":"二十年前已經被講成是違憲的東西那現在再重新再提出來我相信在立法院可以來做一個討論社會也可以來做一個大家來做一個公斷那獨立機關跟行政獨立還有受立法院監督的這個問題其實這個本來都可以討論你像比如說通傳會、金管會這都比較獨立機關"},{"start":257.694,"end":258.555,"text":"立法院對整個對你們有所批評"},{"start":274.81,"end":291.21,"text":"那在一個獨立機關你不僅要這個獨立機關取得民主的一個正當性也要去彰顯立法權對行政權的一個制衡可是你去把它做比較獨立性如果越低的它就會跟行政體系越接近比如說國發會"},{"start":292.552,"end":294.233,"text":"副委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案案 案。"},{"start":311.34,"end":332.73,"text":"那保留了行政院長對獨立機關重要人士的一個一定的一個決定權並把人事同意權來留給立法院避免單一政黨對各獨立機關的一個影響啊這個其實啊要怎麼樣做到避免各政黨的一個干預啊並達成獨立機關的一個目的啊一直是台灣憲政的一個大災問啊這個來到立法院喔"},{"start":335.992,"end":340.795,"text":"立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":362.759,"end":368.282,"text":"通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案 案件,並且擬具:「國家通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案 案件,並且擬具"},{"start":391.834,"end":392.794,"text":"通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案 案。"},{"start":418.235,"end":442.376,"text":"談到NCC都是在講泛藍大敗泛綠。NCC委員出來藍綠比是多少?NCC委員名單出現國青取得過半。NCC委員名單都是在談這些,都是在講藍跟講綠,這個怎麼會是我們要的獨立機關啊?所以我是覺得說注意"},{"start":443.937,"end":445.077,"text":"組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案 案。"},{"start":470.422,"end":472.963,"text":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案．一．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．"},{"start":494.807,"end":497.729,"text":"通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案．一）委員洪孟楷等25人擬具:「國家通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案．一）委員洪孟楷等25人擬具"},{"start":520.16,"end":527.205,"text":"在我看來,這種20年前就已經被宣告違憲的一個條文重新再提出,我看你是笑在心上,你抱歉把我們這裡入味乾燥而已,我說不知道。好,謝謝。"}]}}}}