{"id":151937,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151937","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/75811ef35c27466bf3a178478a476539af7b9089f19fa5f77f5010e6307119196a34765b9d30d1a85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃捷","委員發言時間":"10:12:32 - 10:18:54","影片長度":"00:06:22","會議時間":"2024-05-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部、交通部、大陸委員會、財團法人海峽交流基金會、原住民族委員會就「針對陸方開放大陸觀光客來台具體回應及作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-01","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-15"},"duration":382,"end_time":"2024-05-01T10:18:54+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-01T10:12:32+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":505,"blocks":[["黃委員捷：（10時12分）好，謝謝主席，請副主委。"],["主席：請李副主委。"],["黃委員捷：副主委好。"],["李副主任委員麗珍：黃委員好。"],["黃委員捷：我沒有想到過了兩個月，我們又在這裡討論同一個題目。因為這個題目兩個月來其實已經講很多了，我覺得副主委是不是再次說明清楚，2019年中國到底片面做了什麼事情，所以我們才變成現在不對等的情況？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：過去兩邊的旅客都是有來有往，2019年，陸方就說，基於兩岸關係的考量，所以就把自由行給關掉了，然後團客也慢慢減少，因為對於他們的組團社，一般而言政府是可以發揮一些影響，所以2019年的時候，其實團客也慢慢在變少，疫情之後它就整個都關掉了。當然，疫情之後我們也就恢復兩邊的往來，所以我們疫情之後對於國人到大陸去並沒有做特別的限制。對於我們組團社去的部分，它們希望是一個對等的方式，也就是說，他們的組團社可以帶團體的客人到臺灣的時候，我們再讓我們的組團社可以帶我們的團體客人到大陸去，這樣的一個規劃在8月24日我們就主動地來做宣布，等於遞出一個所謂的善意。這件事情到後來對方就一直在講說，對於我們去的部分，它要我們先有一些承諾，所以我們才會在去年大概11月的時候，先釋放一個訊息說：好，我們會在3月1日開始讓我們的組團社也可以去。可是故事就是到了今年1月……"],["黃委員捷：對，就到了這裡。"],["李副主任委員麗珍：就是剛剛其他委員也有提到，到了1月的時候，它還是不願意放它的團體客人來，甚至還有很多、很多的像M503航線的啟動，還有很多、很多像軍機這些……"],["黃委員捷：沒錯。"],["李副主任委員麗珍：所以我們才會從6月1日以後，把這個組團赴陸暫停。"],["黃委員捷：好，謝謝副主委的說明。我相信這個故事已經非常清楚了，不管是它的前因後果，整個事情的脈絡其實就是這樣，就是2019年中國片面地改變現狀，然後中斷了中國的客人來臺，不管是自由行還是團客，都是這樣！臺灣其實始終都是秉持著善意，我們認為只要對等，就來交流，本來就是有來有往，本來就是禮尚往來，而且臺灣人是非常善良的喔！我們的橄欖枝從來都沒有停過喔！我們都準備好了，就是你開放我就開放，你怎麼開放我就怎麼開放，甚至到了2023年，臺灣去中國的客人是176萬人，中國來臺灣的只有22萬人，這是一個非常嚴重的差異，已經是一個非常不對等的狀況，甚至我們今年3到5月也有10萬人的團客可以到中國了，這對臺灣的觀光業當然非常不公平啊！臺灣的觀光業就想說，我們的客人都到你們那裡去了，結果你們都不來，導致臺灣的觀光業不管是旅宿業、餐飲業都想說，這樣對我們真的好嗎？","再來就是要講到這次的新的提案，就是中國說福建要開放到馬祖，請問這樣最高峰是多少人啊？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：疫情前的話是6,500。"],["黃委員捷：講出來相信副主委自己也很想笑。6,500人次！是啊！而且是最高只有這樣子的人次喔！所以我覺得，我不知道陸委會是怎麼看啦！但是我看到這樣一個釋出的善意，我會覺得：這是一個笑話嗎？怎麼會有點丟臉的感覺？那你福建來馬祖，是不是我們也對等地開放馬祖到福建，這樣就好了呢？因為他們也沒有說福建可以到金門，也沒有說福建可以到花蓮，甚至也沒有說福建可以到澎湖嘛！甚至連傅崐萁總召自己去中國討的，他們說要幫花蓮帶來觀光，結果連花蓮都沒有爭取到耶！"],["李副主任委員麗珍：因為一直到5月底，我們組團社去是沒有限區域的啦！到5月底都還是這樣。6月1日以後要不要做調整？當然，委員這個建議我們會做個考量。"],["黃委員捷：好啊，我的建議就是，我們就是很對等啦！我們就是非常善良，然後我們都是保持著這種投桃報李的心情……"],["李副主任委員麗珍：對，因為我們也沒有政策急轉彎，說從現在……"],["黃委員捷：對啊！我們一直都是這樣，所以就是如果好啊，你福建來馬祖，那我們馬祖也去福建啊！這就是可以互相、相當……"],["李副主任委員麗珍：其實委員的意見我們會納入……"],["黃委員捷：然後如果他們願意再加開金門、願意再加開花蓮、願意再加開澎湖，好啊，我們這邊大家也很願意來交流嘛！是這樣！我們始終都是秉持著善意，然後也都希望對等地來交流，完全沒有任何的偏見。","最後我還是要講一下，我想問一下這一趟我們這17位同仁到了中國，回來之後有沒有跟陸委會遊說要求開放平潭的直航？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：目前沒有接到任何……"],["黃委員捷：我為什麼會這樣問呢？是因為……"],["李副主任委員麗珍：只有看到記者會的訊息。"],["黃委員捷：這一趟如果陸委會有接到這樣的消息，就是如果有立委來跟你們遊說相關的事情，是有可能違反反滲透法的，如果有這樣的情事，陸委會一定要跟大家說，好不好？因為這個是非常、非常嚴重的。"],["李副主任委員麗珍：相關的法令我們一定會遵守。"],["黃委員捷：沒有錯，反滲透法請大家都來遵守，好不好？謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝黃捷委員的質詢，謝謝；謝謝李副主委。","繼續請黃建賓委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":506,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-15","speakers":["高金素梅","蘇巧慧","張智倫","麥玉珍","張宏陸","李柏毅","牛煦庭","王美惠","黃捷","黃建賓","許宇甄","吳琪銘","徐欣瑩","丁學忠","傅崐萁","廖先翔","鄭天財Sra 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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,089 --> 00:00:03,256\n主席請副主委請李副主委\n\n2\n00:00:06,621 --> 00:00:29,678\n副主委好我沒有想到過了兩個月的兩個月我們又在這裡討論同一個題目那因為這個題目其實兩個月來已經講很多了我覺得是不是副主委再清楚的說清楚當初2019年到底是中國做了什麼事情然後片面做了什麼事情所以我們才變成說現在不對等的情況原來在過去其實\n\n3\n00:00:36,244 --> 00:00:52,706\n兩邊的這個旅客是都有來有往那在2019年陸方就說基於兩岸關係的考量所以就把自由行給關掉了然後這個團客也慢慢的減少因為他們的組團社一般\n\n4\n00:00:53,366 --> 00:01:21,482\n政府是可以給他做一些影響所以2019年的時候其實團客也慢慢在變少那疫情之後呢他就整個都關掉了那當然疫情之後呢我們也就恢復兩邊的往來所以我們疫情之後對於我們的國人到大陸去呢並沒有做特別的限制那對於我們組團社去的部分我們就希望說是一個對等的方式也就是說\n\n5\n00:01:22,122 --> 00:01:50,464\n他們的組團社可以帶團體的客人到台灣的時候我們再讓我們的組團社可以帶我們的團體客人到大陸去這樣的一個規劃在8月24號我們就主動的來做宣布等於說遞出一個所謂的善意那這個事情到後來對方就一直在講說你們一定要先對組團社部分有一些就是我們去的部分他要我們先有一些\n\n6\n00:01:51,845 --> 00:01:52,145\n主席\n\n7\n00:02:07,552 --> 00:02:07,873\n謝謝副主委沒錯\n\n8\n00:02:25,356 --> 00:02:26,417\n2019年中國片面的改變現狀,然後中斷了中國的客人來台。\n\n9\n00:02:45,399 --> 00:02:51,063\n不管是自由行還是團客都是這樣那台灣其實始終都是秉持著善意我們認為只要對等就來交流本來就是有來有往本來就是禮尚往來而且台灣人是非常善良的我們的橄欖枝從來都沒有停過我們都準備好了就是我們開放你開放我就開放你怎麼開放我就怎麼開放\n\n10\n00:03:06,593 --> 00:03:27,723\n甚至到了2023年台灣去中國的客人是176萬人那中國來台灣的只有22萬這是一個非常嚴重的差異非常嚴重的已經是一個非常不對等的狀況那甚至我們今年3到5月也有10萬人的團客可以到中國了嘛\n\n11\n00:03:28,163 --> 00:03:54,446\n那對台灣的觀光業當然非常不公平阿對台灣的觀光業想說我們的客人都到你們那裡去的結果你們都不來那導致台灣的觀光業不管是旅宿業餐飲業都想說這樣對我們真的好嗎那我覺得當然啦再來就是要講到說所以這一次的這個新的提案就是中國說福建他們要開放到馬祖那請問一下這樣是多少人阿\n\n12\n00:03:55,286 --> 00:03:55,366\n6500人次\n\n13\n00:04:08,065 --> 00:04:36,108\n而且是最高只有這樣子的人次所以我覺得我不知道說陸委會是怎麼看但我看到這個這樣的一個釋出的善意我會覺得說是一個笑話嗎怎麼會有點丟臉的感覺而且就是你要那你福建來馬祖那是不是我們也對等的開放馬祖到福建這樣就好了呢因為他們也沒有說福建可以到金門也沒有說福建可以到花蓮甚至也沒有說福建可以到澎湖\n\n14\n00:04:37,489 --> 00:04:39,033\n甚至連傅坤祺總叫自己去中國討的他們說要幫花蓮帶來觀光結果連花蓮都沒有爭取到欸\n\n15\n00:04:46,648 --> 00:05:07,085\n因為一直到5月底的話我們還是組團社現在去我們是沒有限區域的啦到5月底都還是這樣那6月1號以後要不要做調整當然委員這個建議我們會做個考量好啊我的建議就是說我們就是很對等啦我們本來都是我們就是非常善良然後我們都是保持著這種頭頭暴力的心情\n\n16\n00:05:10,067 --> 00:05:34,650\n對阿,我們一直都是這樣,所以就是如果好阿,你福建來馬祖,那我們馬祖也去福建阿,就是這樣子就是可以相當,然後如果你們願意再加開金門,願意再加開花蓮,願意再加開澎湖,好阿,那我們這邊的大家也很願意來交流嘛,是這樣,我們始終都是秉持著善意,然後也都希望對等的來交流,完全沒有任何的偏見。\n\n17\n00:05:35,811 --> 00:05:39,573\n那我想說最後還是要講一下說我想問一下我們這一趟這17位同仁到了中國回來之後有沒有跟陸委會來遊說要求開放平台的執行啊目前沒有沒有這個接到為什麼會這樣問呢只有看到記者會的訊息\n\n18\n00:05:58,723 --> 00:05:58,903\n黃捷委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t3256\t主席請副主委請李副主委\n6621\t29678\t副主委好我沒有想到過了兩個月的兩個月我們又在這裡討論同一個題目那因為這個題目其實兩個月來已經講很多了我覺得是不是副主委再清楚的說清楚當初2019年到底是中國做了什麼事情然後片面做了什麼事情所以我們才變成說現在不對等的情況原來在過去其實\n36244\t52706\t兩邊的這個旅客是都有來有往那在2019年陸方就說基於兩岸關係的考量所以就把自由行給關掉了然後這個團客也慢慢的減少因為他們的組團社一般\n53366\t81482\t政府是可以給他做一些影響所以2019年的時候其實團客也慢慢在變少那疫情之後呢他就整個都關掉了那當然疫情之後呢我們也就恢復兩邊的往來所以我們疫情之後對於我們的國人到大陸去呢並沒有做特別的限制那對於我們組團社去的部分我們就希望說是一個對等的方式也就是說\n82122\t110464\t他們的組團社可以帶團體的客人到台灣的時候我們再讓我們的組團社可以帶我們的團體客人到大陸去這樣的一個規劃在8月24號我們就主動的來做宣布等於說遞出一個所謂的善意那這個事情到後來對方就一直在講說你們一定要先對組團社部分有一些就是我們去的部分他要我們先有一些\n111845\t112145\t主席\n127552\t127873\t謝謝副主委沒錯\n145356\t146417\t2019年中國片面的改變現狀,然後中斷了中國的客人來台。\n165399\t171063\t不管是自由行還是團客都是這樣那台灣其實始終都是秉持著善意我們認為只要對等就來交流本來就是有來有往本來就是禮尚往來而且台灣人是非常善良的我們的橄欖枝從來都沒有停過我們都準備好了就是我們開放你開放我就開放你怎麼開放我就怎麼開放\n186593\t207723\t甚至到了2023年台灣去中國的客人是176萬人那中國來台灣的只有22萬這是一個非常嚴重的差異非常嚴重的已經是一個非常不對等的狀況那甚至我們今年3到5月也有10萬人的團客可以到中國了嘛\n208163\t234446\t那對台灣的觀光業當然非常不公平阿對台灣的觀光業想說我們的客人都到你們那裡去的結果你們都不來那導致台灣的觀光業不管是旅宿業餐飲業都想說這樣對我們真的好嗎那我覺得當然啦再來就是要講到說所以這一次的這個新的提案就是中國說福建他們要開放到馬祖那請問一下這樣是多少人阿\n235286\t235366\t6500人次\n248065\t276108\t而且是最高只有這樣子的人次所以我覺得我不知道說陸委會是怎麼看但我看到這個這樣的一個釋出的善意我會覺得說是一個笑話嗎怎麼會有點丟臉的感覺而且就是你要那你福建來馬祖那是不是我們也對等的開放馬祖到福建這樣就好了呢因為他們也沒有說福建可以到金門也沒有說福建可以到花蓮甚至也沒有說福建可以到澎湖\n277489\t279033\t甚至連傅坤祺總叫自己去中國討的他們說要幫花蓮帶來觀光結果連花蓮都沒有爭取到欸\n286648\t307085\t因為一直到5月底的話我們還是組團社現在去我們是沒有限區域的啦到5月底都還是這樣那6月1號以後要不要做調整當然委員這個建議我們會做個考量好啊我的建議就是說我們就是很對等啦我們本來都是我們就是非常善良然後我們都是保持著這種頭頭暴力的心情\n310067\t334650\t對阿,我們一直都是這樣,所以就是如果好阿,你福建來馬祖,那我們馬祖也去福建阿,就是這樣子就是可以相當,然後如果你們願意再加開金門,願意再加開花蓮,願意再加開澎湖,好阿,那我們這邊的大家也很願意來交流嘛,是這樣,我們始終都是秉持著善意,然後也都希望對等的來交流,完全沒有任何的偏見。\n335811\t339573\t那我想說最後還是要講一下說我想問一下我們這一趟這17位同仁到了中國回來之後有沒有跟陸委會來遊說要求開放平台的執行啊目前沒有沒有這個接到為什麼會這樣問呢只有看到記者會的訊息\n358723\t358903\t黃捷委員\n","txt":"主席請副主委請李副主委\n副主委好我沒有想到過了兩個月的兩個月我們又在這裡討論同一個題目那因為這個題目其實兩個月來已經講很多了我覺得是不是副主委再清楚的說清楚當初2019年到底是中國做了什麼事情然後片面做了什麼事情所以我們才變成說現在不對等的情況原來在過去其實\n兩邊的這個旅客是都有來有往那在2019年陸方就說基於兩岸關係的考量所以就把自由行給關掉了然後這個團客也慢慢的減少因為他們的組團社一般\n政府是可以給他做一些影響所以2019年的時候其實團客也慢慢在變少那疫情之後呢他就整個都關掉了那當然疫情之後呢我們也就恢復兩邊的往來所以我們疫情之後對於我們的國人到大陸去呢並沒有做特別的限制那對於我們組團社去的部分我們就希望說是一個對等的方式也就是說\n他們的組團社可以帶團體的客人到台灣的時候我們再讓我們的組團社可以帶我們的團體客人到大陸去這樣的一個規劃在8月24號我們就主動的來做宣布等於說遞出一個所謂的善意那這個事情到後來對方就一直在講說你們一定要先對組團社部分有一些就是我們去的部分他要我們先有一些\n主席\n謝謝副主委沒錯\n2019年中國片面的改變現狀,然後中斷了中國的客人來台。\n不管是自由行還是團客都是這樣那台灣其實始終都是秉持著善意我們認為只要對等就來交流本來就是有來有往本來就是禮尚往來而且台灣人是非常善良的我們的橄欖枝從來都沒有停過我們都準備好了就是我們開放你開放我就開放你怎麼開放我就怎麼開放\n甚至到了2023年台灣去中國的客人是176萬人那中國來台灣的只有22萬這是一個非常嚴重的差異非常嚴重的已經是一個非常不對等的狀況那甚至我們今年3到5月也有10萬人的團客可以到中國了嘛\n那對台灣的觀光業當然非常不公平阿對台灣的觀光業想說我們的客人都到你們那裡去的結果你們都不來那導致台灣的觀光業不管是旅宿業餐飲業都想說這樣對我們真的好嗎那我覺得當然啦再來就是要講到說所以這一次的這個新的提案就是中國說福建他們要開放到馬祖那請問一下這樣是多少人阿\n6500人次\n而且是最高只有這樣子的人次所以我覺得我不知道說陸委會是怎麼看但我看到這個這樣的一個釋出的善意我會覺得說是一個笑話嗎怎麼會有點丟臉的感覺而且就是你要那你福建來馬祖那是不是我們也對等的開放馬祖到福建這樣就好了呢因為他們也沒有說福建可以到金門也沒有說福建可以到花蓮甚至也沒有說福建可以到澎湖\n甚至連傅坤祺總叫自己去中國討的他們說要幫花蓮帶來觀光結果連花蓮都沒有爭取到欸\n因為一直到5月底的話我們還是組團社現在去我們是沒有限區域的啦到5月底都還是這樣那6月1號以後要不要做調整當然委員這個建議我們會做個考量好啊我的建議就是說我們就是很對等啦我們本來都是我們就是非常善良然後我們都是保持著這種頭頭暴力的心情\n對阿,我們一直都是這樣,所以就是如果好阿,你福建來馬祖,那我們馬祖也去福建阿,就是這樣子就是可以相當,然後如果你們願意再加開金門,願意再加開花蓮,願意再加開澎湖,好阿,那我們這邊的大家也很願意來交流嘛,是這樣,我們始終都是秉持著善意,然後也都希望對等的來交流,完全沒有任何的偏見。\n那我想說最後還是要講一下說我想問一下我們這一趟這17位同仁到了中國回來之後有沒有跟陸委會來遊說要求開放平台的執行啊目前沒有沒有這個接到為什麼會這樣問呢只有看到記者會的訊息\n黃捷委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:03.256\n主席請副主委請李副主委\n\n00:06.621 --> 00:29.678\n副主委好我沒有想到過了兩個月的兩個月我們又在這裡討論同一個題目那因為這個題目其實兩個月來已經講很多了我覺得是不是副主委再清楚的說清楚當初2019年到底是中國做了什麼事情然後片面做了什麼事情所以我們才變成說現在不對等的情況原來在過去其實\n\n00:36.244 --> 00:52.706\n兩邊的這個旅客是都有來有往那在2019年陸方就說基於兩岸關係的考量所以就把自由行給關掉了然後這個團客也慢慢的減少因為他們的組團社一般\n\n00:53.366 --> 01:21.482\n政府是可以給他做一些影響所以2019年的時候其實團客也慢慢在變少那疫情之後呢他就整個都關掉了那當然疫情之後呢我們也就恢復兩邊的往來所以我們疫情之後對於我們的國人到大陸去呢並沒有做特別的限制那對於我們組團社去的部分我們就希望說是一個對等的方式也就是說\n\n01:22.122 --> 01:50.464\n他們的組團社可以帶團體的客人到台灣的時候我們再讓我們的組團社可以帶我們的團體客人到大陸去這樣的一個規劃在8月24號我們就主動的來做宣布等於說遞出一個所謂的善意那這個事情到後來對方就一直在講說你們一定要先對組團社部分有一些就是我們去的部分他要我們先有一些\n\n01:51.845 --> 01:52.145\n主席\n\n02:07.552 --> 02:07.873\n謝謝副主委沒錯\n\n02:25.356 --> 02:26.417\n2019年中國片面的改變現狀,然後中斷了中國的客人來台。\n\n02:45.399 --> 02:51.063\n不管是自由行還是團客都是這樣那台灣其實始終都是秉持著善意我們認為只要對等就來交流本來就是有來有往本來就是禮尚往來而且台灣人是非常善良的我們的橄欖枝從來都沒有停過我們都準備好了就是我們開放你開放我就開放你怎麼開放我就怎麼開放\n\n03:06.593 --> 03:27.723\n甚至到了2023年台灣去中國的客人是176萬人那中國來台灣的只有22萬這是一個非常嚴重的差異非常嚴重的已經是一個非常不對等的狀況那甚至我們今年3到5月也有10萬人的團客可以到中國了嘛\n\n03:28.163 --> 03:54.446\n那對台灣的觀光業當然非常不公平阿對台灣的觀光業想說我們的客人都到你們那裡去的結果你們都不來那導致台灣的觀光業不管是旅宿業餐飲業都想說這樣對我們真的好嗎那我覺得當然啦再來就是要講到說所以這一次的這個新的提案就是中國說福建他們要開放到馬祖那請問一下這樣是多少人阿\n\n03:55.286 --> 03:55.366\n6500人次\n\n04:08.065 --> 04:36.108\n而且是最高只有這樣子的人次所以我覺得我不知道說陸委會是怎麼看但我看到這個這樣的一個釋出的善意我會覺得說是一個笑話嗎怎麼會有點丟臉的感覺而且就是你要那你福建來馬祖那是不是我們也對等的開放馬祖到福建這樣就好了呢因為他們也沒有說福建可以到金門也沒有說福建可以到花蓮甚至也沒有說福建可以到澎湖\n\n04:37.489 --> 04:39.033\n甚至連傅坤祺總叫自己去中國討的他們說要幫花蓮帶來觀光結果連花蓮都沒有爭取到欸\n\n04:46.648 --> 05:07.085\n因為一直到5月底的話我們還是組團社現在去我們是沒有限區域的啦到5月底都還是這樣那6月1號以後要不要做調整當然委員這個建議我們會做個考量好啊我的建議就是說我們就是很對等啦我們本來都是我們就是非常善良然後我們都是保持著這種頭頭暴力的心情\n\n05:10.067 --> 05:34.650\n對阿,我們一直都是這樣,所以就是如果好阿,你福建來馬祖,那我們馬祖也去福建阿,就是這樣子就是可以相當,然後如果你們願意再加開金門,願意再加開花蓮,願意再加開澎湖,好阿,那我們這邊的大家也很願意來交流嘛,是這樣,我們始終都是秉持著善意,然後也都希望對等的來交流,完全沒有任何的偏見。\n\n05:35.811 --> 05:39.573\n那我想說最後還是要講一下說我想問一下我們這一趟這17位同仁到了中國回來之後有沒有跟陸委會來遊說要求開放平台的執行啊目前沒有沒有這個接到為什麼會這樣問呢只有看到記者會的訊息\n\n05:58.723 --> 05:58.903\n黃捷委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":3.256,"text":"主席請副主委請李副主委"},{"start":6.621,"end":29.678,"text":"副主委好我沒有想到過了兩個月的兩個月我們又在這裡討論同一個題目那因為這個題目其實兩個月來已經講很多了我覺得是不是副主委再清楚的說清楚當初2019年到底是中國做了什麼事情然後片面做了什麼事情所以我們才變成說現在不對等的情況原來在過去其實"},{"start":36.244,"end":52.706,"text":"兩邊的這個旅客是都有來有往那在2019年陸方就說基於兩岸關係的考量所以就把自由行給關掉了然後這個團客也慢慢的減少因為他們的組團社一般"},{"start":53.366,"end":81.482,"text":"政府是可以給他做一些影響所以2019年的時候其實團客也慢慢在變少那疫情之後呢他就整個都關掉了那當然疫情之後呢我們也就恢復兩邊的往來所以我們疫情之後對於我們的國人到大陸去呢並沒有做特別的限制那對於我們組團社去的部分我們就希望說是一個對等的方式也就是說"},{"start":82.122,"end":110.464,"text":"他們的組團社可以帶團體的客人到台灣的時候我們再讓我們的組團社可以帶我們的團體客人到大陸去這樣的一個規劃在8月24號我們就主動的來做宣布等於說遞出一個所謂的善意那這個事情到後來對方就一直在講說你們一定要先對組團社部分有一些就是我們去的部分他要我們先有一些"},{"start":111.845,"end":112.145,"text":"主席"},{"start":127.552,"end":127.873,"text":"謝謝副主委沒錯"},{"start":145.356,"end":146.417,"text":"2019年中國片面的改變現狀,然後中斷了中國的客人來台。"},{"start":165.399,"end":171.063,"text":"不管是自由行還是團客都是這樣那台灣其實始終都是秉持著善意我們認為只要對等就來交流本來就是有來有往本來就是禮尚往來而且台灣人是非常善良的我們的橄欖枝從來都沒有停過我們都準備好了就是我們開放你開放我就開放你怎麼開放我就怎麼開放"},{"start":186.593,"end":207.723,"text":"甚至到了2023年台灣去中國的客人是176萬人那中國來台灣的只有22萬這是一個非常嚴重的差異非常嚴重的已經是一個非常不對等的狀況那甚至我們今年3到5月也有10萬人的團客可以到中國了嘛"},{"start":208.163,"end":234.446,"text":"那對台灣的觀光業當然非常不公平阿對台灣的觀光業想說我們的客人都到你們那裡去的結果你們都不來那導致台灣的觀光業不管是旅宿業餐飲業都想說這樣對我們真的好嗎那我覺得當然啦再來就是要講到說所以這一次的這個新的提案就是中國說福建他們要開放到馬祖那請問一下這樣是多少人阿"},{"start":235.286,"end":235.366,"text":"6500人次"},{"start":248.065,"end":276.108,"text":"而且是最高只有這樣子的人次所以我覺得我不知道說陸委會是怎麼看但我看到這個這樣的一個釋出的善意我會覺得說是一個笑話嗎怎麼會有點丟臉的感覺而且就是你要那你福建來馬祖那是不是我們也對等的開放馬祖到福建這樣就好了呢因為他們也沒有說福建可以到金門也沒有說福建可以到花蓮甚至也沒有說福建可以到澎湖"},{"start":277.489,"end":279.033,"text":"甚至連傅坤祺總叫自己去中國討的他們說要幫花蓮帶來觀光結果連花蓮都沒有爭取到欸"},{"start":286.648,"end":307.085,"text":"因為一直到5月底的話我們還是組團社現在去我們是沒有限區域的啦到5月底都還是這樣那6月1號以後要不要做調整當然委員這個建議我們會做個考量好啊我的建議就是說我們就是很對等啦我們本來都是我們就是非常善良然後我們都是保持著這種頭頭暴力的心情"},{"start":310.067,"end":334.65,"text":"對阿,我們一直都是這樣,所以就是如果好阿,你福建來馬祖,那我們馬祖也去福建阿,就是這樣子就是可以相當,然後如果你們願意再加開金門,願意再加開花蓮,願意再加開澎湖,好阿,那我們這邊的大家也很願意來交流嘛,是這樣,我們始終都是秉持著善意,然後也都希望對等的來交流,完全沒有任何的偏見。"},{"start":335.811,"end":339.573,"text":"那我想說最後還是要講一下說我想問一下我們這一趟這17位同仁到了中國回來之後有沒有跟陸委會來遊說要求開放平台的執行啊目前沒有沒有這個接到為什麼會這樣問呢只有看到記者會的訊息"},{"start":358.723,"end":358.903,"text":"黃捷委員"}]}}}}