{"id":151945,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151945","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/75811ef35c27466b0ec6ef67a6379ff21e4149ad024bf7a87f5010e6307119195564f04bc932350b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"謝龍介","委員發言時間":"10:54:02 - 11:01:11","影片長度":"00:07:09","會議時間":"2024-05-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）委員傅崐萁等33人擬具「國家通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員傅崐萁等41人擬具「國家通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員洪孟楷等25人擬具「國家通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條及第十條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「國家通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案」案。）","date":"2024-05-01","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[36,23],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-36,23-1"},"duration":429,"end_time":"2024-05-01T11:01:11+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-01T10:54:02+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":556,"blocks":[["謝委員龍介：（10時54分）主席，請陳主委。"],["主席：請主委。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員好。"],["謝委員龍介：陳主委，今天早上黃國昌委員質詢你的時候，我有上來向你表達態度，因為第一，你是行政官員，來到立法院，不管這位委員是國民黨、民眾黨還是民進黨，你基本的態度啊，這是不對的，不管你有多氣憤，你那時候的那種態度本席不能認同。所以主席，我告訴你，今天他要即問即答也好，一問一答也好，甚至我在這裡可以放棄言論免責權，你隨時也可以問我，你是要做民進黨的打手或是NCC這個機關的首長隨便你選，我在這裡同意你用任何的方式來回答本席，跟本席對話，這樣好不好？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：好。"],["謝委員龍介：你被提名之後，民進黨一路替你護航說不要有政治性，如果不要有政治性，今天的NCC不會在民間被大家說成它是「髒兮兮」啦！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我想這是民間的說法啦……"],["謝委員龍介：所以今天對於這個髒兮兮，立法院如果還不把你打掃乾淨，這個立法院就應該要包起來！今天立法院如果再對你「相挺」，這個立法院就要包起來！","2019年本席參加立委補選，我邀請盧秀燕、韓國瑜和侯友宜來到臺南，在屏東，在你的故鄉，天空出現一朵祥雲──鳳凰展翅，你就對報導這個現象的電視台進行裁罰，有沒有？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：有啊，有這個案件。"],["謝委員龍介：有這個案件，最後呢？判你們輸了。另外這個案件，賴清德2017年被蔡英文提名擔任行政院長的時候，空中一尾紅色的龍被說是天現祥光，長老教會說這是聖光下凡，我請問你，為什麼報導的這家電視台你們沒有裁罰？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我記得那時候，有人檢舉嗎？沒人去檢舉嘛！這個我們的內容處……"],["謝委員龍介：沒人去檢舉就不用罰了？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們也有去查過，好像沒有相關的資料，是這樣的。"],["謝委員龍介：當時有報導啊，電視台有報導啊……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：是，但是我們去查……"],["謝委員龍介：這樣不是兩套標準？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有兩套標準，我們就是依照相關的標準……"],["謝委員龍介：再來，一樣是2019年，因為你如果沒有解釋清楚，我會認為你是針對我的啦！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有啦，委員，不是這樣的，其實我們在處理事情時都是依照相關的標準。"],["謝委員龍介：同樣是補選，麻豆五王廟代天府，農民說把200萬噸的柚子倒入曾文水庫，你注意聽喔，他說完，我人在現場，我說不是200萬噸喔，我馬上制止，是200萬斤，結果你們就用200萬噸這個部分說別人怎樣怎樣；他說倒入曾文水庫，我說不是，而是曾文溪河床，但你們沒有理會，你們一樣是裁罰了。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：剛才……"],["謝委員龍介：你說有人檢舉……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：是，有人檢舉。"],["謝委員龍介：有人檢舉你就罰，結果你剛好一罰、二罰、三罰、再罰！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有，一個案子只能處理一次而已。"],["謝委員龍介：再來，本席被電視臺邀請去用河洛話、玉闕話報導氣象，這樣你也罰我，你算是有夠會罰的，但每一件最後都被平反，這樣你都不會不好意思嗎？你會不好意思嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員，我們都是照程序來處理，照程序……"],["謝委員龍介：你說照程序來，現在你敗訴了，你不用道歉嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：你說哪一個案件敗訴？大部分案件我們是贏的，我們沒有……當然有些案件敗訴，但大部分案件都是勝訴。"],["謝委員龍介：我的案子你們輸了啦！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有，這個沒有吧？"],["謝委員龍介：你不要說那些有的沒的，我告訴你，要做打手沒關係……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有打手的問題，是依照程序……"],["謝委員龍介：你如果要做打手，我們就用政治來對決，我同意。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：不是政治對決啦。"],["謝委員龍介：今天如果莊瑞雄在這裡說話，你一樣用剛才那樣的態度，我也還是一樣會上來飆你，不要這樣嘛……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：所以我……"],["謝委員龍介：你現在是怎樣？要回去選屏東縣長嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我修正我的態度，剛才主席也指示我要修正我的態度。"],["謝委員龍介：社會在看，自有公論，你今天有一個態度說你要回去學校了，這是真的還是假的？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：當然是真的。"],["謝委員龍介：不用管這些組織法要修改，組織法的修改可以大家來公論，但是……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：組織法的修改現在是我的責任啊！我的……"],["謝委員龍介：這和你的去留無涉嘛，對不對？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：是，無涉。"],["謝委員龍介：對於一個新的行政團隊，對於賴清德這位新總統上任，你有沒有要展現一個事務官、政務官的風骨？你在5月19日就辭掉NCC的主委，你願意嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我都照規矩來，依照規定任期是到7月31日……"],["謝委員龍介：照規矩來，你就是要抓鰻嘛！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：照規矩來，一個機關的運作……"],["謝委員龍介：我告訴你，你平時指甲都修得很乾淨，我知道啦，很會拍馬屁啦，但是不通啦，以我對賴清德的瞭解，你是沒什麼空間。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我任期也到了。"],["謝委員龍介：表示你的骨氣，我跟你說，你如果在5月19辭職，我讚許你，我在FB給你發一篇文肯定你，不然你現在說得嘴角全都泡都是假的。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這是我負責的態度。"],["謝委員龍介：你要回學校去也是假的。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我是到7月31號，這是我負責的態度。"],["謝委員龍介：說得那麼好聽，我要回學校去，結果呢？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我就是要回學校去啊！"],["謝委員龍介：結果呢？你還是照規定來，照規定來，法律如果沒修，你們新的提名如果沒過，你繼續做主委欸！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：所以今天新的委員留著啊，因為我們有四個要走，也不是只有我要走而已。"],["謝委員龍介：沒有，你不能先表示辭職嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我的任期到7月31號，何必辭職呢？就要到了，這也是我負責……責任就是這樣，我那時候說的，承擔到7月31號就是承擔到7月31號，就是這樣。"],["謝委員龍介：所以你還在留戀嘛。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：什麼留戀？只剩一個多月，留戀什麼？"],["謝委員龍介：你不要跟我說得那麼有氣魄啦，這樣聽得懂嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：不是氣魄，我是說有責任的問題在。"],["謝委員龍介：改天回來當政治人物比這個更有贏面，回去屏東選縣長，說不定我還有機會挺你。"],["主席：謝謝各位，請回。","現在11點到了，我們來處理臨時提案。","處理臨時提案第1案，請宣讀。","臨時提案：","案由：","立法院交通委員會依立法院職權行使法第四十五條及立法院第十一屆第一會期交通委員會第三次全體委員會議決議，成立「『鏡電視申設及後續爭議』調閱專案小組」，係基於立法院監督行政機關之憲法職權，依上開法律與交通委員會決議所作之針對NCC於鏡電視申設案之可能缺失與引發之社會爭議行使調閱權，故其為目的及範圍均屬明確之重大議案，殆無疑義。","NCC通傳法務字第11300142140號函，係基於對憲法權力分立原則、司法院大法官解釋及法律之錯誤及恣意解釋，屬違法且規避立法院對行政機關之監督，屬毀憲亂政之行為，破壞我國憲政體制甚鉅，應予最嚴厲譴責。","爰此，建請司法及法制委員會及交通委員會聯席會議，作成決議：「針對陳耀祥主任委員就監督規管該會之法令惡意錯誤及扭曲解釋，屬違法且規避立法院對行政機關之監督，屬毀憲亂政之行為，破壞我國憲政體制甚鉅，應予最嚴厲譴責，並移送監察院。」","提案人：傅崐萁　　林國成　　翁曉玲　　謝龍介　　洪孟楷　　羅智強　　林思銘"],["主席：請問提案委員有無補充說明？請說。"],["翁委員曉玲：這一次立法院成立鏡電視調閱小組，要求NCC提供相關的調閱文件，調閱小組列舉了非常多很重要的文件檔案，都是跟鏡電視的申設，以及後來它有沒有履行附款所要求的種種文件，這個部分基本上應該都是公開資訊，哪有涉及到什麼業務秘密？實在不瞭解為什麼NCC拒絕提供。而且剛剛聽了黃國昌委員的質詢，才知道原來竟然是NCC主委一個人一手遮天，自己就決定了，他是把NCC完成首長制了嗎？明明就是合議制機關，在面對立法院這麼重要的調閱文件的事項，竟然可以由陳耀祥主委自己一個人將它視為行政事項，就決定了。這種藐視國會的行為，而且錯誤解釋法令、扭曲解釋大法官的解釋，根本就是嚴重的違背憲法權力分立原則，違背相關的法令規定，就他這種藐視國會、不尊重國會的行為，當然應該要給予最嚴厲的譴責。不僅如此，陳主委這樣的一個行為，基本上也已經嚴重違反公務員服務法，我們認為他這樣的態度、這樣的作為應該要移送監察院，請監察院查辦陳耀祥主委這樣的失職行為。在此包含本人在內的相關的委員共同提案，要求給予陳耀祥主委最嚴厲的譴責，並且移送監察院。"],["主席：柯總召。"],["柯委員建銘：剛才仔細聆聽翁委員所謂違反權力分立原則，你的發言錯了吧！事實上陳耀祥是捍衛憲政體制啊！大法官第729號解釋，黃國昌最清楚，不要在那邊笑！黃國昌，你的姿勢永遠就是這樣，這是「著猴」嗎？唉呀！你也要正經一點。我們好好來說。沒關係，這個歷史會看待每一個人的行為。大法官第729號解釋很清楚，當年是因為馬王政爭的時候，我要調閱黃世銘跟馬英九的通聯紀錄，那時候已經偵查結束了喔。聽我說一下啦，翁曉玲在講話，我們都不講話，對不對？"],["羅委員智強：不會啊！我們在講話，你一直講話。"],["主席：我再重申一次我剛剛的說法是，當在發言的時候，請大家不要按麥克風，沒有麥克風的發言，如果我認為有影響議事，我就會阻止，有時候你們底下的講話，我沒有辦法主觀判斷大聲或小聲，所以我先是以麥克風為標準來判斷，但是如果沒有按麥克風，講話還是太大聲，影響到議事，那我會制止，謝謝。"],["柯委員建銘：主席，他們稍微騷擾，我會忍耐啦，我會稍微忍耐。第729號解釋用這樣才解釋出來，那時候的大法官有翁曉玲的先生陳春生，但是那個解釋是解釋偵查終結後可不可以調閱文件，我要調馬英九跟黃世銘的通聯紀錄，因為在立法院我質詢黃世銘說，你一個檢察總長到底跟馬英九通過幾次電話？他說只有通過一次，我說你再想清楚，兩次，我說你死定了，調通聯紀錄，後來他自己跟蘋果日報記者說常常在通電話，那我必須要調他的通聯紀錄，當年大法官解釋就是這樣，但解釋出來，已經偵查結束了，第729號解釋還說不可以，為什麼不可以？這還得了？假如給我調到怎麼辦呢？他用了一個理由說會影響檢察官辦他案的情形，或是會對檢察官辦案有一個不良影響，這是第729號解釋，就是為什麼偵查終結不可以調。但是違反大法官第729號解釋最嚴重的是什麼？第一個破壞的就是黃國昌。黃國昌，你不要忘記，2017年10月18號你在立法院財政委員會提案要調慶富案，那時候慶富案整個文件全部在法院審理中，你竟然要調，是不是你？你不要一副那種很奇怪的笑容。我希望等一下你自己出來打球，自己回答，那個笑容沒有用，我找機會要跟你直球對決了。2017年10月18號是不是你違反第729號在財政委員會調慶富案？後來我們堅決地主張既然第729號解釋出來了，而且是在偵查中，當然不給調嘛！所以透過表決，你和國民黨透過表決是贏了沒有錯，贏一票，表決以後你還到電視台去，違憲你還要到電視台去罵，說民進黨擁護財團，還點名誰反對，這就是黃國昌嘛！靠抹黑來做攻擊，違憲的就是你。今天同樣的，NCC的案子，你們成立調閱委員會，調閱委員會而已喔，不是調查委員會，調資料要調訴訟中的案子，針對鏡電視，股東多少、整個金流等等，請問這可以嗎？當然陳耀祥用第729號解釋來捍衛憲政體制嘛，你們是雙重違憲欸！你成立一個調閱委員會，既然調閱規則通過表決，林國成當召委、召集人，而且要提案的時候三分之一也可以，另外召委認為一個人可以獨斷，是不是這樣？而且要找民間人士來詢問、來盤查，釋字582號出來，你們還沒有這種權力，什麼隔天報紙打開，要叫蘇貞昌來。你當初講什麼話？要叫誰、叫總統府副秘書長來、叫誰來？你們都澈底違憲了。","今天我們在談，翁曉玲你本身是學法的，我們今天的核心事項……我今天在這裡講的核心事項、在審法案時候的核心事項是講整個立法你們的4個版本、國民黨的4個版本，立法的核心事項這是違憲的。我請問黃國昌，你怎麼去護航這種，這個才是核心事項。不是把一個同樣的事情說了3年還在講，一直在講。所以今天我們要講清楚，你陳耀祥本身要捍衛憲政體制，維護權力分立原則，而且是照憲法來的。所以今天國民黨你提這個案子，這個案子你們自己要小心，我們不可能給你贊成的。"],["主席：這樣好了，因為今天發言比較踴躍，我們現在是……我看這樣啦！我們用開放登記發言的方式，讓大家趕快來登記，然後每個委員發言3分鐘。不然這樣子，我們今天是聯席嘛！不然到時候沒完沒了，大家可能要陪著我到晚上11點。","國昌，不好意思，因為他們兩位剛剛先舉手，我們先讓他講。"],["黃委員國昌：沒有關係，就讓他們講啊！"],["鍾委員佳濱：我們已經先舉手請求發言……"],["主席：OK，還有要發言的麻煩來登記一下。","因為我剛剛在宣告之前已經有兩位舉手了，那個我不能違反剛剛……因為我剛剛沒有先講這個，那他們兩位發言完畢之後，請其他要發言的委員麻煩先來登記，謝謝各位。"],["鍾委員佳濱：主席、在場聯席委員會的各位委員先進。英國的前首相邱吉爾曾經說過，民主國家的國會除了不能讓男人生孩子之外，什麼荒謬的事情都做得出來。我想最近在司法及法制委員會我們再度看到了又一次荒謬的可能決議，在前天已經通過了，可能今天的聯席會又要再來一次。","我看到這個臨時提案，我很認真地去尋找，想看看有沒有我們在場委員黃國昌委員的簽名，顯然黃委員這次並沒有參與這個臨時提案，也不能預判他未來、待會處理這個臨時提案的時候他會採什麼立場。但是我這裡有一個黃委員當年在第9屆立委卸任後，在2020年11月18號他的臉書上說，終於向蔡衍明的中天告別了，NCC的委員頂住了政治壓力、守住了專業審查，決議否決蔡旺旺的中天新聞換照申請。今天我們陳主委在這個備詢台上，針對以國民黨為主的委員的提案，其中諸多荒謬，甚至被大法官宣告為違憲，但它的條文卻繼續拿出來，其實無非大家都看得很清楚，就是臺語說的在「報中天的老鼠冤」，但是這個事情在當年，至少我看到了代表時代力量，或者不知道該怎麼稱呼，代表現在台灣民眾黨的黃國昌委員，他一樣很肯定當年的NCC委員，在當年的組織法之下，經過同樣立法院同意權的程序下所任命的主委、副主委跟委員，頂住了壓力，還有民間專業委員否准了中天的換照申請。","所以當我們看到這個提案內容是一個交通委員會曾經要求進行的調閱專案小組，這個是交通委員的事情，結果拿到我們交通跟司法及法制聯席委員會。為什麼今天的委員會要跟司法及法制委員會聯席？因為要審組織法嘛！要審NCC的組織法，你的臨時提案是拿交通委員會調閱專案小組的決議有沒有落實，請回交通委員會好好地去追究。而且你們的提案文還寫什麼？這些提案的委員，我看除了洪孟楷委員跟林國成委員之外，其他的都是司法及法制委員會的委員……也不是，只有林國成委員是交通委員會的委員。所以真正這個提案要來表示意見的，就是林國成委員嘛！他在交通委員會裡面，對這個有意見可以去提、到交通委員會提，其他司法及法制委員會的委員沒有參與那天交通委員會的專案調閱小組，那你還提這個提議！","更荒謬的是什麼？他說要移送監察院，其實立法院的委員會承院會之命，我們來審查組織法，要作成決議，對決議的內容其實我們個別的意見都予以尊重，對於最後的決議，透過多數決，我們也予以尊重，但是移送監察院這種事情，實在不宜在跟交通委員會專案調閱小組無關的司法及法制聯席的委員會上來作出這樣荒謬的決定。不曉得我們還可以作出除了叫男人生孩子之外，還可以用委員會來移送行政院獨立機關的主任委員。我覺得提出這樣提案的委員，真的要好好地去思考一下，要譴責以合議制多數決定，我尊重，但是移送監察院這些文字，實在是太荒唐、太可笑。還有套用一句、引用一句「太離譜了」！"],["主席：上次譴責我，我也覺得很離譜啊！怎麼會用「譴責」？好啦！好啦！沒事、沒事。","沒關係，我們接下來請吳思瑤委員發言，現在就截止發言登記，謝謝。"],["吳委員思瑤：主席、各位同仁。這個會期在司法及法制委員會很重要的議案叫做國會改革的議案，當中的重中之重就是立法院職權行使法裡頭對於立法院調查權的行使，只是很可惜，國民黨、民眾黨的委員害怕自己的調查權違憲，條文不給在司法及法制委員會裡頭逐條審查，所以今天我也可以藉由這樣一個違憲臨時提案的內容，正好可以闡述立法院過當行使違反憲法的調查權，它到底違反了憲政的哪些原則呢？","首先大家可以去看看幾個大法官的釋字案，第325號、第585號，還有第729號。第585號告訴我們什麼？憲法告訴我們什麼？大法官說，立法院調查權是立院行使憲法職權所必要的輔助性權力，但是它要基於權力分立與制衡的原則，立法院調查權所得調查的對象或事項，並非毫無限制。換言之，大法官告訴我們立法委員不是你想調查誰就可以調查誰那樣子地無法無天。","釋字585號也告訴我們，調查事項必須與立委行使憲法賦予的職權有重大關聯。立委的職權是什麼？規範在憲法第六十三條，就是我們的法律案、預算案，乃至於條約案、媾和案、戒嚴案等等。我想問一下，成立了鏡電視這個調閱小組的委員會跟立法委員行使的法律案有什麼關係？預算案有什麼關係？重大關聯者在哪裡？那提案委員要講清楚啊！","我們來看釋字第729號的大法官又告訴我們什麼，很清楚地講「對於偵查中之案件，立法院自不得向其調閱相關卷證」，已經講了非常多次，算是N次了。也就是偵查不公開，調閱的案件如果是檢調偵辦當中的案件就不得調閱，所以你們講不聽嗎？第729號釋字案再一次說，立法院僅能在制度、預算、法律對檢察機關進行通案監督。記得，是「通案監督」，並無介入個案調閱偵查卷證之餘地，所以鏡電視這個案子是通案嗎？不！它是已經被委員們設定要挾怨報復的一個個案、被委員設定是要私設刑堂的一個調閱小組。","最後，我要附和司法及法制委員會鍾佳濱召委剛剛的說法，鏡電視的調閱小組是在交通委員會裡面設置的，對於這個調閱小組行使的權限，居然要到司法及法制委員會裡面找我們背書，至少本席吳思瑤我不願意背書，我也不可能為這樣離譜的提案背書。主席，您要說明，今天在司法及法制委員會提一個與司法及法制委員會過去審議的議案都沒有關聯的案子，這個調閱小組不是司法委員會成立的，在這裡通過這樣的臨時提案是牛頭不對馬嘴，應該要到正確的場域、正確的委員會去提案，司法及法制委員會為什麼要在這裡跟你們陪葬、為你們背書？我拒絕！主席請說明，好嗎？這一點主席應當說明，這是交通委員會成立的調閱小組，為什麼要在司法及法制委員會通過這樣一個議案，大有問題，真的大有問題！立法院不要私設刑堂，不要挾怨報復啊！"],["主席：今天是聯席會議，我尊重聯席會議各位委員的提案。"],["吳委員思瑤：你這樣說明夠嗎？不太夠耶！"],["主席：我已經說完了，至於夠不夠，絕對不是任何一個人可以對我的發言評價，我認為夠了就是夠了，我為我自己的發言負責。在主持會議的時候，本來就是主席決定，我大不大，你認為我很大，我就很大，我沒有關係啊！","接下來請黃健豪委員發言。"],["黃委員健豪：謝謝主席。針對這個臨時提案，剛剛有些委員認為這是交通委員會的提案，今天怎麼可以拿來司法及法制委員會提案，我要提醒一下，今天的會議叫做司法及法制、交通委員會聯席，既然要看NCC、要討論NCC的相關議題，相關的委員都有權利提案，如果委員不開心、不滿意這樣的提案，你們也可以提其他的臨時提案，做雙重的表述，我們也都會尊重大家的提案，並不是你不開心，你覺得不適合，我們就不能提案，立法院職權行使法裡面並沒有這一條規定。","NCC到底有沒有義務提供相關的審查標準給立法院審查，從立法監督行政的角度來看，它應該有義務提供立法院來審查，在審查相關條文、審核媒體申設的時候是依據什麼樣的法令，有沒有受到外部勢力的介入，有沒有什麼其他的考量？當初在交通委員會提出調閱小組，我們希望能夠調閱相關的行政文件，只是調閱行政文件，並不是要調閱正在審判中或是訴訟中的司法個案。我們要看的是NCC在審核媒體的標準是一致的標準，還是針對個案而有不同的標準，我們今天要審查、監督的是NCC在行政權上的行使，不是NCC與任何個人之間的司法案件，我們不會去關說司法，我們也不想要介入司法。但是立法委員的職責是要瞭解NCC這個行政部門，即便它是獨立機關，但它同時也是行政部門，行政部門受立法部門監督是天經地義。如果今天立法委員沒有辦法瞭解、理解NCC到底是用什麼樣的標準去做行政決策的話，不就表示我們的立法權、監督權完全被所謂的獨立機關所藐視嗎？","雖然主委即將要卸任，但是就像你剛剛提到的，在你任內這段時間所有的業務、工作還是要由您一肩扛起，所以我們才希望這些業務過去是怎麼審查的，應該要提供給立法院立法委員瞭解你的標準到底在哪裡，我們今天要談的是一個一致的標準，不是個案。今天特別提出這個臨時提案就是要譴責，我們希望把這個臨時提案留在立法院的紀錄裡面，讓下一位NCC主委，不管你有沒有留任，當然應該是不會留任了，組織法通過的話，你也不會留任了，但不管怎麼樣，我們把這個紀錄留在立法院，讓後續的主委能夠參考，謝謝。"],["主席：下一位請翁曉玲委員發言。"],["翁委員曉玲：我在這裡要提醒大家NCC到底是被誰糟蹋的？NCC成立的時候，那個時候第一版NCC組織法，原本是參考西方國家如德國、法國、美國等先進的民主法治國家，成立NCC遴選委員會，再依照政黨比例推薦，並且遴選相關委員。可是在當時被時任行政院長謝長廷提起釋憲，再被由陳水扁所提名的那群大法官們共同宣告違憲，之後再修法才成為現在由行政院院長提名全數NCC委員的作法。我必須說，請民進黨的委員們多讀點書，立法院立法委員的重要職責就是要把自己準備好，要有充實的法律素養，本席所提的相關法案是具有法律的高度，參考西方先進國家怎麼運作獨立機關。不是像現在這樣的情況，獨立機關NCC已經成為高度政治化的機關，尤其是在民進黨政府執政期間內，將NCC從原來應該保持專業、客觀、獨立的機關推向高度的政治化。","NCC組成的委員本來必須要反映社會上多元的意見，可是我們看到從民進黨政府2016年執政以來，所提名的NCC委員組成的委員會，做出太多具有高度爭議的案子，備受社會大眾批評，在這樣的情況之下，NCC還能維持當初所設置的精神嗎？能夠排除來自於上級機關的指揮監督嗎？事實上，它不僅沒有排除上級機關的指揮監督，還順從上級機關的旨意，也難怪大家會認為NCC現在已經是一個服從民進黨黨意的機關，根本沒有辦法反映民意。今天我們為什麼要提出這樣的臨時提案，主要也是因為看到陳主委基本上完全不尊重立法院的職權，我們要求調閱的相關文件，講難聽一點，如果這些資料是在NCC網站上面就可以看到的，會議紀錄不可以給嗎？當時這些鏡電視申請的相關文書有什麼機密？為什麼不能夠提供？基本上，他們的種種表現完全藐視立法委員的職權，所以我必須說，我們今天提出這個提案完全就是要對付像陳耀祥主委這樣不尊重立法院職權、藐視國會的政府官員，移送監察院只是剛剛好而已。"],["主席：下一位請羅智強委員發言。"],["羅委員智強：斯斯有兩種，民進黨的議事規則也有兩種，剛剛吳思瑤委員說今天為什麼司法及法制委員會竟然可以提案譴責和移送陳耀祥，這應該是交通委員會的事，今天是司法跟交通的聯席委員會，當然可以！這邊是綜合司法跟交通委員會委員的意見啊！這個也可以拿來說嘴？","我要跟各位講，基本上民進黨的議事規則就是兩種，甚至好多種，我從昨天那個笑話開始講起，昨天也是一個天大的笑話，這邊也要問問大家，吳秉叡到底是蔣幹，還是黃蓋？第一次吳秉叡來投票的時候，在年金案上面跑來支持國民黨，我非常感謝他，他可能是三國時期孫權陣營的黃蓋，到民進黨去臥底；然後在昨天，欸，吳秉叡又不見了，更神奇的是明明人不在議場，他自己都說他不在喔！結果竟然很神奇的有人代投，這個不是重點，這重點是什麼？重點是代投這件事情，創始人就是我們的千手觀音吳思瑤委員啊！以前千手觀音吳思瑤委員的時候，他也不去管他的代投啊！盧縣一發生代投爭議，他又出來說這是偽造文書，好重的罪啊！沒有關係，新國會偽造文書啦，那請問吳秉叡昨天的狀況，怎麼又不是偽造文書了呢？是不是偽造文書？我就要講從頭到尾，我羅智強可沒主張是偽造文書，光偽造文書這件事情，民進黨的標準就一大堆嘛！你如果要今天說張三是偽造文書，那為什麼到李四就不是呢？","就像是今天我們來看看，我們今天希望把陳耀祥做譴責案，我們譴責案就違反議事規則，我們譴責案就沒有正當性，結果吳宗憲召委在主持會議，對不對？開放討論6個小時，比起民進黨以前5分鐘停止討論，6個小時然後有40次散會動議，民進黨提出的也都讓大家一一表決，結果還是得到兩次譴責案，又譴責吳宗憲啊！奇怪了，你們可以譴責吳宗憲，我們不能譴責陳耀祥？講到移送監察院，這更好笑，我們連李俊俋秘書長、監察院秘書長坐在底下都承認，對不對？當年他去質詢監察院的時候，還喊說要彈劾王建煊，彈劾都可以，移送陳耀祥就不可以，斯斯有兩種啦！民進黨議事規則百百種，搞得我們真的很亂啦！"],["主席：謝謝。下一位我們請莊瑞雄委員。"],["莊委員瑞雄：謝謝主席，在場聯席會的各位偉大政治家，我們立法院今天的聯席真的是瘋人院，有時候要針對議案來發言，準備一下啦！不要什麼都胡亂牽拖，就像我們剛剛偉大的國民黨總召傅崐萁委員，他也在內政委員會講：立法院任何一個決議不能違背憲法的規定。是啊！是如此啊！今天其實最糟糕的就是誰呢？還是一樣，號稱幹過檢察官二十幾年了，我們的吳宗憲召委，這個實在是，提這種案要譴責是要先譴責你，為什麼你知道嗎？今天我看傅崐萁委員還有林國成委員這幾位連署的一個臨時提案裡面，你去提到的是NCC通傳法務字第11300142140號函，召委不是這樣子嗎？你是幹過什麼檢察官！如果這個案子是我在審的話，我第一個一定把這個函調過來，聯席會要審查，讓大家聞香一下，談論這個案子到底是在表決什麼，這樣才是對的！難道不是這樣說嗎？召委，不是這樣子嗎？你總是要提供一下嘛！你要議決，這個臨時提案在講什麼，你們只是說等一下要表決，比人多、比人少，我不跟吳思瑤委員跟你談什麼第585號解釋啦！或者是在跟你談到大法官釋字這幾號的解釋裡面，我就只問你說我們今天這個提案到底是針對什麼而來嗎？這個地方重點就是在講什麼而已，重點是在講說我們國會裡面的一個監督事項，到底那個範圍會有多大，就這樣子而已，整個獨立機關的一個監理，或者說整個涉及到民間整個公司的治理事項。我們這次是新選出來的委員，我們很大，我管你公司怎麼治理，老子就叫作立法委員，要你交出來，你就交出來，哪有什麼叫公司治理，通通都交，不是這樣說嗎？","我反而會覺得NCC國家通訊傳播委員會發的這個函裡面，涉及到各個政黨對整個立法院職權行使法的範圍到什麼地方，職權範圍的行使是可以討論，怎麼會因為NCC的一個函，讓立法委員或個別政黨認為不符合我的意見，我就跟你說我要把你譴責、要把你移送監察院，說你是曲解法令，我也不認為這叫曲解法令啊！我到現在來看的話，以國民黨現在來看的話，你們現在心目中哪有什麼大法官會議解釋，沒有欸！你們認為立法委員是最大欸！立法委員大不大？好大，是真的，我也覺得很大，可是要大到什麼地步？是不是可以大到無法無天？可以大到因為人數多數，我管你什麼叫作憲政機關，這也不對吧！所以我要求主席，我剛才本來是要用會議詢問的方式多說幾分鐘，但是我是很守法的。所以我要跟你說的是，我們這樣不對啦！你涉及到聯席的部分，至少內文的部分，因為剛剛翁曉玲委員在講的部分，他也沒有把這個函拿出來給大家看一下，涉及到的爭議範圍是哪一部分嘛，好不好？所以召委你也應該將這個給大家看一下……"],["翁委員曉玲：事先就要看好了。"],["莊委員瑞雄：不是、不是、不是，我不會像你們這樣亂牽拖，立法委員的職權範圍到什麼地步我都尊重，在野黨的職權我也尊重，但問題是在一個譴責案裡面不是這樣漫天要價，慎重啦！慎重啦！就這樣子而已啦！"],["主席：我這邊先宣告，第一個，臨時提案是各位委員的權力，跟主席有什麼關係？莊委員，您是非常資深的委員，我是菜鳥、我是菜鳥、我是菜鳥……"],["莊委員瑞雄：你要處理本來就要闡明嘛……"],["主席：所以連我都懂，提案是各位委員的權力，不是主席有權阻止……"],["莊委員瑞雄：是，當然是啊！這個……"],["主席：我想連我這個菜鳥都懂，各位這麼資深的學長們一定懂。"],["柯委員建銘：不要再吵了啦。"],["主席：我們今天主席該做的，就是各位委員所提出來的提案，我們就依照程序把它處理完畢，如果大家沒有共識，就現場表決，我想這是處理議事的方式，其他就不用再說。"],["莊委員瑞雄：那會議詢問呢？照你這樣說，我也要跟你那個……"],["羅委員智強：主席，開始了啦！請黃國昌。"],["主席：第二件事情，有關NCC這一號函，我想各位自己有興趣的，上網查馬上可以查得到，如果有興趣想要閱讀的話。","下一位我們請黃國昌委員。"],["黃委員國昌：謝謝主席。實在令人非常難以想像在這個地方討論有關於這個臨時提案的時候，民主進步黨總召柯建銘先生發言的時候，不是針對議案，是在進行人身的攻擊跟謾罵，在立法院公報裡面，我坐在下面，指責我，連我坐在下面微笑，連「著猴」這兩個字都說得出來，這真的是讓臺灣社會大眾知道民主進步黨黨團總召的水準。","第二件事情，釋字第729號，釋字第729號是柯建銘自己涉及了不法的司法關說，竟然還在調閱委員會當中去調取偵查當中的案卷，被大法官宣告違憲，這麼丟臉的事情啊！他在國會殿堂裡面再度提起，我只能用「恬不知恥」四個字來加以形容，他要拿慶富獵雷艦弊案的調閱小組來相比，更是貽笑大方。請問慶富獵雷艦弊案的調閱小組，有調閱偵查中的卷證嗎？沒有，因為我全部都看過。慶富獵雷艦弊案的調閱小組有像柯建銘的那個調閱小組，被大法官宣告去調閱偵查當中的卷證嗎？也沒有。結果柯建銘今天非常可笑，舉了一個自己是當事人、自己被宣告違憲的議案，然後拿另外一個正當行使國會權力沒有被宣告的調閱小組來做比擬啊！真的是令人感覺到非常非常的遺憾。","至於陳耀祥該不該被譴責、該不該被移送監察院，我提供三項事實讓各位來予以參考，第一個，今天他在備詢的時候承認了，回給調閱小組的公文是他自己決定的，哇！讓人瞠目結舌啊！原來我們的NCC已經變成陳耀祥制啦！NCC是合議制都忘記啦！這麼重要的事情，抗拒立法院的調閱，他說他一個人決定就可以啊！果然是充滿了綠色價值的NCC啊！第二件事情，作為法律人，我今天聽陳耀祥在那邊解釋說任期到了之後可以繼續延到新的委員出來，他們是參仿什麼？他們是參仿公平交易委員會組織法，當我聽到他這樣發言的時候，我必須要說，陳耀祥，你忝為法律人啊！為什麼這樣講？因為這個條文的規定，當初2007年到2008年，通保法的條文規定，我跟大家複習一下，是透過當時的密室協商喬出來的，所以我們找不到立法理由，陳耀祥所援引的公平交易委員會組織法是什麼時候訂定的？是2011年，怎麼會2007年訂定的法案，是穿越時空到了未來，去參酌2011年的法案呢？有這麼可笑的事嗎？NCC主委，你連基本上的法律整個歷程都搞不清楚。第三項是最嚴重的事，我今天問他，涉及到洩密的事情陳建平有沒有跟你們講過，我不知道，他在上面的答案模稜兩可，不敢正面回應，我直接跟大家報告，2022年10月21號陳建平回復NCC的函裡面，他簽名蓋章，負責任地講那些簡訊都是真的，全部都是裴偉傳給他的。我剛剛這邊質詢完了以後，我實事求是，馬上跟當事人求證有沒有這件事，陳建平說有啊！他早就跟NCC講啦！不辦嘛！遮掩嘛！這就是為什麼立法院要成立調閱小組，因為NCC混太久了，謝謝。"],["柯委員建銘：權宜問題、權宜問題，我權宜問題一下總可以吧！"],["羅委員智強：心海羅盤再次現身。"],["柯委員建銘：加減聽啦！我剛剛很仔細聆聽黃國昌委員啦！其實我會講「著猴」那句話，假如對你有不敬的意思，我可以收回，但是為什麼我要講這個呢？因為昨天我在看電視的時候，他拿著蔥在那裡甩啊甩，連柯文哲你也在貶抑他，那個表情跟他在立法院的表情都很一樣，我是覺得這個人很奇怪，很多政治上重要的事情，在講重要事情的時候要嚴肅地講，不是翹著腳……"],["羅委員智強：主席，心海羅盤，我們建議……"],["柯委員建銘：等一下，我講話……"],["羅委員智強：建議一個心海羅盤時間。"],["柯委員建銘：OK！"],["主席：總召，繼續、繼續，不要受干擾，繼續。"],["柯委員建銘：我現在講的是，昨天電視上全國人民在看待，黃國昌這種表情很奇怪，拿一個蔥自己在這樣甩，連柯文哲你也貶抑他、消遣他，我就覺得奇怪了，這個政黨到底紀律何在？這個政黨看起來只是黃國昌的黨吧！其他的7位委員從來沒有意見過，柯文哲的想法，我相信他的心情一定很複雜。","回到本題好了，所謂729釋字，當年是因為我要調通聯，但是大法官馬上解釋出來，就是陳春生，翁曉玲你的老公也在那裡嘛！偵查結束都不可以調，現在連在法院中的你也可以調，我不相信。當年729釋字第一個破壞的就是黃國昌嘛！慶富案仍在法院中啊！所以你搞一個調閱委員會根本無疾而終嘛！你調到什麼東西？你自取其辱而已，包括陳耀祥現在不給資料就不給資料，也是一樣啊！在訴訟狀態怎麼拿啊！黃國昌你要講清楚啊！什麼當年我關說，當年我關說什麼？當年很重要的是馬王政爭嘛！就是馬英九破壞憲政體制，用特務治國，透過黃世銘監聽國會，這還得了，然後操作政治，再發起馬王政爭，那時候特偵組完全違法亂紀。","在法院中，我去告馬英九，可是那時候地檢署檢察長楊治宇回一封信給我，就說總統不受刑事訴究，等卸任以後再另行偵辦，結果卸任以後，馬英九上法院啦！黃世銘馬上違反通保法、個資法，違反三個法，洩密，判有罪，黃世銘在法院上講什麼，他有超法規的阻卻違法事由，承認他犯罪，所以黃世銘下臺。黃國昌，你假如要做國民黨的打手，你也要把很多歷史、法律弄清楚。","今天我要詰問的就是，今天我們正在審查法案，國民黨提了4個法案，完全衝撞憲法，用三權憲法，用政黨比例制，這種核心價值你怎麼捍衛，你來講嘛！今天要譴責的是什麼？今天要譴責的是國民黨，那個提案寫錯了，主席，那個提案寫錯了，請國民黨回去更改，好不好？"],["羅委員智強：好棒！"],["柯委員建銘：要譴責國民黨，陳耀祥捍衛憲政體制啊！"],["翁委員曉玲：趕快表決了啦！"],["主席：謝謝柯總召。","我這邊跟大家報告一件事情，權宜問題是自己權益受損的時候，不是再扯到馬英九去啦！"],["柯委員建銘：我是權宜問題……"],["吳委員思瑤：黃國昌剛剛講的啊！"],["柯委員建銘：他罵我啊！"],["主席：對，所以你講黃國昌的部分我沒意見……"],["吳委員思瑤：他講人家耶！"],["主席：所以你講黃國昌的部分我沒意見，我們不要再扯到馬英九，馬英九不在這裡啊！"],["柯委員建銘：我講個權宜問題怎麼樣啦！"],["主席：現在登記發言者都已經發言完畢，沒有共識的話，臨時提案的部分我們現在就進行表決。現在進行表決，我們採用舉手表決的方式，表決前，我們先清點在場出席的人數。","（清點人數）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":130,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-36,23-1","speakers":["吳宗憲","洪孟楷","翁曉玲","傅崐萁","黃國昌","謝龍介","羅智強","林國成","莊瑞雄","柯建銘","沈發惠","陳俊宇","鍾佳濱","林思銘","吳思瑤","黃健豪","李昆澤","何欣純","楊瓊瓔","蔡其昌","游顥","許智傑","陳素月","徐富癸","魯明哲","邱若華","廖先翔","林沛祥","陳雪生"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-05-01"],"gazette_id":"1133701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"併案審查( 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\"end\": 422.519, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 422.519, \"end\": 422.619, \"score\": 0.774}, {\"word\": \"草\", \"start\": 422.619, \"end\": 422.699, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 422.699, \"end\": 422.719, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 422.719, \"end\": 422.859, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 422.859, \"end\": 422.879, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,436 --> 00:00:27,809\n主席我請端主委來請主委好委員好端主委我剛才在岸國聰在跟你接觸的時候我有起來跟你表達一個態度這是第一因為你是行政官員來到立法院不管這個委員是國民黨、民眾黨還是民進黨你基本的態度這是不對的\n\n2\n00:00:33,632 --> 00:00:42,699\n無論你多氣憤,你在那時候那種態度、分析不能認同。所以主席我跟你說,今天你要接盟這集也好,一文一集也好,甚至我在這裡放棄言論變這款,你隨時可以問我,你若是要做\n\n3\n00:00:59,707 --> 00:01:14,973\n民進黨的拍手,你做NCC的機關收到,隨時你走。」我在這,同意你用聯合的方式來回答本席,來跟本席對話,這樣好不好?好。你從提名之後,民進黨一路給你護航,不但有政治性,\n\n4\n00:01:29,046 --> 00:01:41,292\n立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案．一．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．\n\n5\n00:01:53,803 --> 00:02:05,465\n我邀請羅秀燕韓國禄及豪佑儀來到台南提供在屏東在你的故鄉獻出一蕊的胸粉紅紅顛顛這個電視台你先給我發錢有沒有有這個案件有這個案件最好呢看你輸啊如果有這個案件啦羅清帝\n\n6\n00:02:23,854 --> 00:02:29,720\n立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案案案。\n\n7\n00:02:48,408 --> 00:02:51,509\n立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案\n\n8\n00:03:08,038 --> 00:03:11,801\n立法院第11屆第1次聯席會議及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案案案案\n\n9\n00:03:37,492 --> 00:03:43,156\n立法院第11屆第1次聯席會議及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案．一．二．二．二．三．二．三．\n\n10\n00:04:01,243 --> 00:04:03,406\n通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案。\n\n11\n00:04:19,332 --> 00:04:19,612\n立法院第1次聯席\n\n12\n00:04:38,885 --> 00:04:43,469\n立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案案案\n\n13\n00:05:06,721 --> 00:05:09,923\n立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案案\n\n14\n00:05:32,130 --> 00:05:34,611\n司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案案。\n\n15\n00:06:00,057 --> 00:06:01,437\n立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案案案\n\n16\n00:06:28,228 --> 00:06:37,252\n立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案。cellence立法院第11屆第12屆第13屆第14屆第15屆第16屆第17屆第18屆第18屆第18屆第19屆第19屆第20屆第21屆第22屆第23屆第23屆第24屆第26屆第27屆第28屆第29屆第30屆第31屆第31屆第32屆第32屆第33屆第34屆第36屆第37屆第38屆第39屆第40屆第41屆第41屆第42屆第42屆第43屆第47屆第47屆第47屆第48屆\n\n17\n00:06:58,015 --> 00:07:02,879\n立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案案。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5436\t27809\t主席我請端主委來請主委好 委員好端主委我剛才在岸國聰在跟你接觸的時候我有起來跟你表達一個態度這是第一因為你是行政官員來到立法院不管這個委員是國民黨、民眾黨還是民進黨你基本的態度這是不對的\n33632\t42699\t無論你多氣憤,你在那時候那種態度、分析不能認同。所以主席我跟你說,今天你要接盟這集也好,一文一集也好,甚至我在這裡放棄言論變這款,你隨時可以問我,你若是要做\n59707\t74973\t民進黨的拍手,你做NCC的機關收到,隨時你走。」我在這,同意你用聯合的方式來回答本席,來跟本席對話,這樣好不好?好。你從提名之後,民進黨一路給你護航,不但有政治性,\n89046\t101292\t立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案．一．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．\n113803\t125465\t我邀請羅秀燕韓國禄及豪佑儀來到台南提供在屏東在你的故鄉獻出一蕊的胸粉紅紅顛顛這個電視台你先給我發錢有沒有 有這個案件有這個案件 最好呢看你輸啊如果有這個案件啦羅清帝\n143854\t149720\t立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案案案。\n168408\t171509\t立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案\n188038\t191801\t立法院第11屆第1次聯席會議及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案案案案\n217492\t223156\t立法院第11屆第1次聯席會議及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案．一．二．二．二．三．二．三．\n241243\t243406\t通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案。\n259332\t259612\t立法院第1次聯席\n278885\t283469\t立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案案案\n306721\t309923\t立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案案\n332130\t334611\t司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案 案。\n360057\t361437\t立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案案案\n388228\t397252\t立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案。cellence 立法院第11屆第12屆第13屆第14屆第15屆第16屆第17屆第18屆第18屆第18屆第19屆第19屆第20屆第21屆第22屆第23屆第23屆第24屆第26屆第27屆第28屆第29屆第30屆第31屆第31屆第32屆第32屆第33屆第34屆第36屆第37屆第38屆第39屆第40屆第41屆第41屆第42屆第42屆第43屆第47屆第47屆第47屆第48屆\n418015\t422879\t立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案案。\n","txt":"主席我請端主委來請主委好 委員好端主委我剛才在岸國聰在跟你接觸的時候我有起來跟你表達一個態度這是第一因為你是行政官員來到立法院不管這個委員是國民黨、民眾黨還是民進黨你基本的態度這是不對的\n無論你多氣憤,你在那時候那種態度、分析不能認同。所以主席我跟你說,今天你要接盟這集也好,一文一集也好,甚至我在這裡放棄言論變這款,你隨時可以問我,你若是要做\n民進黨的拍手,你做NCC的機關收到,隨時你走。」我在這,同意你用聯合的方式來回答本席,來跟本席對話,這樣好不好?好。你從提名之後,民進黨一路給你護航,不但有政治性,\n立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案．一．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．\n我邀請羅秀燕韓國禄及豪佑儀來到台南提供在屏東在你的故鄉獻出一蕊的胸粉紅紅顛顛這個電視台你先給我發錢有沒有 有這個案件有這個案件 最好呢看你輸啊如果有這個案件啦羅清帝\n立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案案案。\n立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案\n立法院第11屆第1次聯席會議及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案案案案\n立法院第11屆第1次聯席會議及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案．一．二．二．二．三．二．三．\n通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案。\n立法院第1次聯席\n立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案案案\n立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案案\n司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案 案。\n立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案案案\n立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案。cellence 立法院第11屆第12屆第13屆第14屆第15屆第16屆第17屆第18屆第18屆第18屆第19屆第19屆第20屆第21屆第22屆第23屆第23屆第24屆第26屆第27屆第28屆第29屆第30屆第31屆第31屆第32屆第32屆第33屆第34屆第36屆第37屆第38屆第39屆第40屆第41屆第41屆第42屆第42屆第43屆第47屆第47屆第47屆第48屆\n立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案案。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.436 --> 00:27.809\n主席我請端主委來請主委好委員好端主委我剛才在岸國聰在跟你接觸的時候我有起來跟你表達一個態度這是第一因為你是行政官員來到立法院不管這個委員是國民黨、民眾黨還是民進黨你基本的態度這是不對的\n\n00:33.632 --> 00:42.699\n無論你多氣憤,你在那時候那種態度、分析不能認同。所以主席我跟你說,今天你要接盟這集也好,一文一集也好,甚至我在這裡放棄言論變這款,你隨時可以問我,你若是要做\n\n00:59.707 --> 01:14.973\n民進黨的拍手,你做NCC的機關收到,隨時你走。」我在這,同意你用聯合的方式來回答本席,來跟本席對話,這樣好不好?好。你從提名之後,民進黨一路給你護航,不但有政治性,\n\n01:29.046 --> 01:41.292\n立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案．一．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．二．\n\n01:53.803 --> 02:05.465\n我邀請羅秀燕韓國禄及豪佑儀來到台南提供在屏東在你的故鄉獻出一蕊的胸粉紅紅顛顛這個電視台你先給我發錢有沒有有這個案件有這個案件最好呢看你輸啊如果有這個案件啦羅清帝\n\n02:23.854 --> 02:29.720\n立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案案案。\n\n02:48.408 --> 02:51.509\n立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案\n\n03:08.038 --> 03:11.801\n立法院第11屆第1次聯席會議及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案案案案\n\n03:37.492 --> 03:43.156\n立法院第11屆第1次聯席會議及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案．一．二．二．二．三．二．三．\n\n04:01.243 --> 04:03.406\n通訊傳播委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案。\n\n04:19.332 --> 04:19.612\n立法院第1次聯席\n\n04:38.885 --> 04:43.469\n立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案案案\n\n05:06.721 --> 05:09.923\n立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案案\n\n05:32.130 --> 05:34.611\n司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案案。\n\n06:00.057 --> 06:01.437\n立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案案案\n\n06:28.228 --> 06:37.252\n立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條、第八條及第十條條文修正草案案。cellence立法院第11屆第12屆第13屆第14屆第15屆第16屆第17屆第18屆第18屆第18屆第19屆第19屆第20屆第21屆第22屆第23屆第23屆第24屆第26屆第27屆第28屆第29屆第30屆第31屆第31屆第32屆第32屆第33屆第34屆第36屆第37屆第38屆第39屆第40屆第41屆第41屆第42屆第42屆第43屆第47屆第47屆第47屆第48屆\n\n06:58.015 --> 07:02.879\n立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、交通委員會組織法第四條條文修正草案案案。\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.436,"end":27.809,"text":"主席我請端主委來請主委好 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