{"id":151957,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151957","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/75811ef35c27466b5e4c467cf2316eea900bfbad7a56e18f7f5010e630711919367e716d719082265ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王世堅","委員發言時間":"10:54:53 - 11:08:29","影片長度":"00:13:36","會議時間":"2024-05-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處朱主計長澤民、財政部莊部長翠雲、經濟部、國家發展委員會、勞動部就「如何改善受僱人員報酬占 GDP 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\"start\": 802.609, \"end\": 802.729, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 802.729, \"end\": 802.749, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 804.392, \"end\": 804.573, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"指\", \"start\": 804.573, \"end\": 804.713, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 804.713, \"end\": 805.816, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"王\", \"start\": 805.816, \"end\": 806.036, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"世\", \"start\": 806.036, \"end\": 806.357, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"堅\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 806.357, \"end\": 806.577, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 806.577, \"end\": 807.56, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"緊\"}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 807.56, \"end\": 807.74, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"著\", \"start\": 807.74, \"end\": 807.921, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 807.921, \"end\": 808.342, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"李\", \"start\": 808.342, \"end\": 808.602, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"昆\", \"start\": 808.602, \"end\": 808.863, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 808.863, \"end\": 809.083, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 809.083, \"end\": 809.103, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,243 --> 00:00:18,071\n副稅屬宋署長阮次長宋署長你好委員好三位好這個我們今天啊\n\n2\n00:00:19,110 --> 00:00:34,926\n主要的主題要來探討平負差距嚴重惡化那也謝謝主計處總算我們等了30年又來了這一份30年前的報告跟30年之後的調查\n\n3\n00:00:36,147 --> 00:00:47,397\n那麼30年前我們前20%的家庭財富所得1306萬當時候20%的所得78萬差距16.8倍30年之後我們前20%的財富所得5133萬後20%的財富所得\n\n4\n00:01:03,871 --> 00:01:26,131\n沒有增加反而倒減一萬元七十七萬這個差距從16.8倍一下子惡化到66.9倍66.9倍有錢的財富高所得的前20%\n\n5\n00:01:28,055 --> 00:01:40,859\n跟後28差距66.9倍啦所以這是非常大非常嚴重的問題那麼我先請教主計處長後那個處長\n\n6\n00:01:44,455 --> 00:02:07,527\n這是30年來才公布這麼一次所以是不是未來我們應該縮短這個期限應該每幾年就應該公布一次讓各部會知所警惕趕快找出什麼樣的方式來說斷我們社會財富的分配所以那個\n\n7\n00:02:10,818 --> 00:02:39,341\n處長你有沒有認為應該是怎麼樣我是認為說這個不該30年才公布一次因為現在的那個調查的技術以及那個大數據的發展不必像以前那麼一個一個去調查那我們可以利用大數據來做那我們這一次做的就是利用大數據那我覺得委員講的剛才非常對是我們會定期做那個定期不會說30年才做一次\n\n8\n00:02:41,236 --> 00:02:59,115\n謝謝你這個答覆所以那你認為應該因為現在既然有大數據來調查統計非常容易嘛所以你認為是不是應該定期那你看應該沒幾年一次我跟委員報告一下因為這個存量的資料不會變化很大\n\n9\n00:02:59,475 --> 00:02:59,975\n但是啊各位\n\n10\n00:03:27,341 --> 00:03:42,946\n我們有七成的家庭根本沒有達到平均數所以這一千六百三十八萬的平均家戶財富這句話白說的就對了講假的啦\n\n11\n00:03:43,905 --> 00:04:08,617\n沒有用嘛七成的家庭沒有達到這個平均數對因為一般來講平均數都會比中位數高所以我們也會有所謂的中位數的一個資料這個是因為我們這個財富跟委員報告一下是扣掉負債有些人他的一個是怎麼樣銀行他\n\n12\n00:04:09,797 --> 00:04:36,360\n就是我剛才講的財務槓桿超得過大所以他有資產很高但是負債也很高結果會落入到最低的百分之二十謝謝那個謝謝處長我剛這句話是講給你旁邊這兩位聽的啦我不是針對你齁你很老實你把這些數字很據實的公布出來這是對的齁好那\n\n13\n00:04:37,133 --> 00:04:43,558\n那個朱處長你先請回朱主計長你先請回你先請回那個這個我問一下財政部財政部你們大概這先前我們有負人稅嘛\n\n14\n00:04:56,127 --> 00:05:16,191\n那麼你們在民國107年你們就把這個富人稅刪除掉了你們那時候就是短短的一句話說為了留財攬財吸引投資就這麼一句話就這麼一句話結果你就把這個富人稅刪掉了那剛才經濟部那個次長\n\n15\n00:05:21,051 --> 00:05:44,483\n經濟部一向比較天馬行空他要說這個是為了提高生產韌性生產韌性我倒不知道啦我倒知道你們財政部很韌性你想刪就刪你要討好富人你就這麼韌性的就這樣一句話你就刪了好嗎\n\n16\n00:05:46,132 --> 00:06:07,689\n真的你說為了流財攬財吸引投資我就看了這個你們打的這個稅金的所得報告裡面這些你說啊你說有大概鼓勵所得增加678億元可是你如果真的把實質\n\n17\n00:06:09,966 --> 00:06:33,535\n鼓勵所得增加678億元你真的去看真正的所得名單都是這些高持股者就是這一些上市櫃營運公司他們本來的擁有者啊你流財攬財在什麼地方我沒有看到任何實質的觀念所以\n\n18\n00:06:34,878 --> 00:06:45,862\n我認為你導師應該從你2023年實質總薪資這是七年來頭一次的負成長欸實質總薪資的負成長這才是真的不是這樣嗎然後平均總薪資也是呈現下滑\n\n19\n00:06:56,796 --> 00:07:14,925\n這才是真的要關注的問題所以我看不出你們講的那個說鼓勵啊這個所得增加678億這個跟你刪除富人稅什麼直接關係然後現在是工時越來越高薪資越來越低啦那也是\n\n20\n00:07:20,121 --> 00:07:30,548\n這個主計總處人家他們有做了這個啦受僱員工每月總工時110年166.7小時111167.3小時112年到現在是168.3小時工時成長實質薪資所得下降這才是真正的現狀啊那我看你們\n\n21\n00:07:49,141 --> 00:08:11,805\n就是我那天也講啊你們部長他就是認為國產稅收這個實質價牢牢的他要守住就對了只對富人減稅其他你休想碰好啊我剛剛就講啊你債當你債\n\n22\n00:08:16,423 --> 00:08:24,601\n刪除富人稅的時候你沒有說財政部當時沒有說要有替代財源才可以免除這個稅金有嗎\n\n23\n00:08:26,616 --> 00:08:50,537\n沒有啊我跟委員報告齁是不是可以讓我簡單說明一下我們就是當時那個中華所得稅的稅率45%降到40%當時的確是考慮到當時的就是流財攬財跟促進經濟發展我現在問你了你要取消這一條稅說每年啊每年大概100億光23年298億\n\n24\n00:08:54,800 --> 00:09:17,718\n報告委員我是不是可以說明一下雖然是剛開始減的時候當然一定會有稅損但是呢如果跟106年跟110年來比較的話我們的薪資所得是增加的6千多億那麼總所得是增加7千多億那麼就稅收來講的話呢\n\n25\n00:09:19,019 --> 00:09:19,579\n經濟發展的果實都被極少數\n\n26\n00:09:40,067 --> 00:09:48,552\n這些財團富人他們瓜分掉了嘛不是嗎從這幾個數字裡面我剛剛在講我說你要取消富人稅過去啊我們好幾位委員包括我多次談這個不合時宜的稅制太多啦娛樂稅、印花稅、汽機車的貨物稅、汽車關稅等等這一些\n\n27\n00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:32,161\n要你們說這些要去調降甚至免除掉像娛樂稅、印花稅啊像機車的貨物稅這個都應該免除跟你們談的時候你們說這個要先找到替代財源一找找替代財源啊從過去的立委到我們現在為止找了30年找什麼找你找了嗎我剛剛光講這幾樣喔光娛樂稅\n\n28\n00:10:36,069 --> 00:10:39,236\n一年最高才18億這個印花稅就先不講印花稅比較高\n\n29\n00:10:42,810 --> 00:11:07,457\n五十億我就講汽機車的貨物稅四十七億那困擾我們許多生頭小民的還有保健品關稅這個二十六億這三項加起來啊汽機車貨物稅跟娛樂稅跟保養品這些加起來才九十億結果你免除了富人稅一年就免除了一百億\n\n30\n00:11:09,107 --> 00:11:19,576\n你們大剌剌的這6年來免除了600億結果你偏要跟深頭小民計較你偏要說我剛講的這個汽機車貨物稅我講的這個娛樂稅你們說要找到替代財源\n\n31\n00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:44,585\n報告委員我是不是可以讓我簡單說明一下雖然是我們當時的稅率是45%降到40%但是我們那時候有提出的是配套方案就是所謂的就是我們優化所的稅制方案所以是提高了相關的四大扣除優化的結果優化的結果只是讓窮人更窮富人更富\n\n32\n00:11:50,806 --> 00:12:00,158\n這個就是今天主計處給我們的結論嗎不會啦不會啦事實上很多人是因為這樣的一個改革你這個態度就是不對什麼叫不會那主計總處今天這個調查出來的結論你怎麼解釋\n\n33\n00:12:04,052 --> 00:12:28,380\n我認為維京從稅制稅賦上面趕快來做調整我認為加薪減稅加薪減稅的第一步財政部你聽好就是要取消失業率的限制因為你所謂的加薪減稅的方式到現在這麼多年只有實施一次原因是為什麼你說要連續\n\n34\n00:12:31,277 --> 00:12:56,202\n六個月失業率達到3.78%以上那坦白講這麼多年下來就只有一次而已所以這個修正草案多全部都刪除了啦我實在因為沒時間那個趙先生我再念三個數字三件事情一提三分之二的勞工領不到平均薪資中等薪資者十年來沒有加薪那\n\n35\n00:12:57,594 --> 00:13:22,749\n最重要的一點公司的營收表現好像有經濟是成長可是經濟成長的果實是極少數富人他們瓜分掉這一點你站在財政部站在負稅署長你責無旁貸你要去想辦法你不要動不動跟經濟部一個樣講一些天馬行空的可不可以\n\n36\n00:13:24,392 --> 00:13:29,103\n謝謝委員指教謝謝王世堅委員的質詢緊接著我們請李昆成委員質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1243\t18071\t副稅屬宋署長阮次長宋署長你好委員好三位好這個我們今天啊\n19110\t34926\t主要的主題要來探討平負差距嚴重惡化那也謝謝主計處總算我們等了30年又來了這一份30年前的報告跟30年之後的調查\n36147\t47397\t那麼30年前我們前20%的家庭財富所得1306萬當時候20%的所得78萬差距16.8倍30年之後我們前20%的財富所得5133萬後20%的財富所得\n63871\t86131\t沒有增加反而倒減一萬元七十七萬這個差距從16.8倍一下子惡化到66.9倍66.9倍有錢的財富高所得的前20%\n88055\t100859\t跟後28差距66.9倍啦所以這是非常大非常嚴重的問題那麼我先請教主計處長後那個 處長\n104455\t127527\t這是30年來才公布這麼一次所以是不是未來我們應該縮短這個期限應該每幾年就應該公布一次讓各部會知所警惕趕快找出什麼樣的方式來說斷我們社會財富的分配所以那個\n130818\t159341\t處長你有沒有認為應該是怎麼樣我是認為說這個不該30年才公布一次因為現在的那個調查的技術以及那個大數據的發展不必像以前那麼一個一個去調查那我們可以利用大數據來做那我們這一次做的就是利用大數據那我覺得委員講的剛才非常對是我們會定期做那個定期不會說30年才做一次\n161236\t179115\t謝謝你這個答覆所以那你認為應該因為現在既然有大數據來調查統計非常容易嘛所以你認為是不是應該定期那你看應該沒幾年一次我跟委員報告一下因為這個存量的資料不會變化很大\n179475\t179975\t但是啊 各位\n207341\t222946\t我們有七成的家庭根本沒有達到平均數所以這一千六百三十八萬的平均家戶財富這句話白說的就對了講假的啦\n223905\t248617\t沒有用嘛七成的家庭沒有達到這個平均數對因為一般來講平均數都會比中位數高所以我們也會有所謂的中位數的一個資料這個是因為我們這個財富跟委員報告一下是扣掉負債有些人他的一個是怎麼樣銀行他\n249797\t276360\t就是我剛才講的財務槓桿超得過大所以他有資產很高但是負債也很高結果會落入到最低的百分之二十謝謝那個謝謝處長我剛這句話是講給你旁邊這兩位聽的啦我不是針對你齁你很老實你把這些數字很據實的公布出來這是對的齁好那\n277133\t283558\t那個朱處長你先請回朱主計長你先請回你先請回那個這個我問一下財政部財政部你們大概這先前我們有負人稅嘛\n296127\t316191\t那麼你們在民國107年你們就把這個富人稅刪除掉了你們那時候就是短短的一句話說為了留財攬財吸引投資就這麼一句話就這麼一句話結果你就把這個富人稅刪掉了那剛才經濟部那個次長\n321051\t344483\t經濟部一向比較天馬行空他要說這個是為了提高生產韌性生產韌性我倒不知道啦我倒知道你們財政部很韌性你想刪就刪你要討好富人你就這麼韌性的就這樣一句話你就刪了好嗎\n346132\t367689\t真的你說為了流財攬財吸引投資我就看了這個你們打的這個稅金的所得報告裡面這些你說啊你說有大概鼓勵所得增加678億元可是你如果真的把實質\n369966\t393535\t鼓勵所得增加678億元你真的去看真正的所得名單都是這些高持股者就是這一些上市櫃營運公司他們本來的擁有者啊你流財攬財在什麼地方我沒有看到任何實質的觀念所以\n394878\t405862\t我認為你導師應該從你2023年實質總薪資這是七年來頭一次的負成長欸實質總薪資的負成長這才是真的不是這樣嗎然後平均總薪資也是呈現下滑\n416796\t434925\t這才是真的要關注的問題所以我看不出你們講的那個說鼓勵啊這個所得增加678億這個跟你刪除富人稅什麼直接關係然後現在是工時越來越高薪資越來越低啦那也是\n440121\t450548\t這個主計總處人家他們有做了這個啦受僱員工每月總工時110年166.7小時111 167.3小時112年到現在是168.3小時工時成長實質薪資所得下降這才是真正的現狀啊那我看你們\n469141\t491805\t就是我那天也講啊你們部長他就是認為國產稅收這個實質價牢牢的他要守住就對了只對富人減稅其他你休想碰好啊我剛剛就講啊你債當你債\n496423\t504601\t刪除富人稅的時候你沒有說財政部當時沒有說要有替代財源才可以免除這個稅金有嗎\n506616\t530537\t沒有啊我跟委員報告齁是不是可以讓我簡單說明一下我們就是當時那個中華所得稅的稅率45%降到40%當時的確是考慮到當時的就是流財攬財跟促進經濟發展我現在問你了你要取消這一條稅說每年啊每年大概100億光23年298億\n534800\t557718\t報告委員我是不是可以說明一下雖然是剛開始減的時候當然一定會有稅損但是呢如果跟106年跟110年來比較的話我們的薪資所得是增加的6千多億那麼總所得是增加7千多億那麼就稅收來講的話呢\n559019\t559579\t經濟發展的果實都被極少數\n580067\t588552\t這些財團富人他們瓜分掉了嘛不是嗎從這幾個數字裡面我剛剛在講我說你要取消富人稅過去啊我們好幾位委員包括我多次談這個不合時宜的稅制太多啦娛樂稅、印花稅、汽機車的貨物稅、汽車關稅等等這一些\n607360\t632161\t要你們說這些要去調降甚至免除掉像娛樂稅、印花稅啊像機車的貨物稅這個都應該免除跟你們談的時候你們說這個要先找到替代財源一找找替代財源啊從過去的立委到我們現在為止找了30年找什麼找你找了嗎我剛剛光講這幾樣喔光娛樂稅\n636069\t639236\t一年最高才18億這個印花稅就先不講印花稅比較高\n642810\t667457\t五十億我就講汽機車的貨物稅四十七億那困擾我們許多生頭小民的還有保健品關稅這個二十六億這三項加起來啊汽機車貨物稅跟娛樂稅跟保養品這些加起來才九十億結果你免除了富人稅一年就免除了一百億\n669107\t679576\t你們大剌剌的這6年來免除了600億結果你偏要跟深頭小民計較你偏要說我剛講的這個汽機車貨物稅我講的這個娛樂稅你們說要找到替代財源\n685120\t704585\t報告委員我是不是可以讓我簡單說明一下雖然是我們當時的稅率是45%降到40%但是我們那時候有提出的是配套方案就是所謂的就是我們優化所的稅制方案所以是提高了相關的四大扣除優化的結果優化的結果只是讓窮人更窮富人更富\n710806\t720158\t這個就是今天主計處給我們的結論嗎不會啦 不會啦事實上很多人是因為這樣的一個改革你這個態度就是不對什麼叫不會那主計總處今天這個調查出來的結論你怎麼解釋\n724052\t748380\t我認為維京從稅制稅賦上面趕快來做調整我認為加薪減稅加薪減稅的第一步財政部你聽好就是要取消失業率的限制因為你所謂的加薪減稅的方式到現在這麼多年只有實施一次 原因是為什麼你說要連續\n751277\t776202\t六個月失業率達到3.78%以上那坦白講這麼多年下來就只有一次而已所以這個修正草案多全部都刪除了啦我實在因為沒時間那個趙先生我再念三個數字三件事情一提三分之二的勞工領不到平均薪資中等薪資者十年來沒有加薪那\n777594\t802749\t最重要的一點公司的營收表現好像有經濟是成長可是經濟成長的果實是極少數富人他們瓜分掉這一點你站在財政部站在負稅署長你責無旁貸你要去想辦法你不要動不動跟經濟部一個樣講一些天馬行空的可不可以\n804392\t809103\t謝謝委員指教謝謝王世堅委員的質詢緊接著我們請李昆成委員質詢\n","txt":"副稅屬宋署長阮次長宋署長你好委員好三位好這個我們今天啊\n主要的主題要來探討平負差距嚴重惡化那也謝謝主計處總算我們等了30年又來了這一份30年前的報告跟30年之後的調查\n那麼30年前我們前20%的家庭財富所得1306萬當時候20%的所得78萬差距16.8倍30年之後我們前20%的財富所得5133萬後20%的財富所得\n沒有增加反而倒減一萬元七十七萬這個差距從16.8倍一下子惡化到66.9倍66.9倍有錢的財富高所得的前20%\n跟後28差距66.9倍啦所以這是非常大非常嚴重的問題那麼我先請教主計處長後那個 處長\n這是30年來才公布這麼一次所以是不是未來我們應該縮短這個期限應該每幾年就應該公布一次讓各部會知所警惕趕快找出什麼樣的方式來說斷我們社會財富的分配所以那個\n處長你有沒有認為應該是怎麼樣我是認為說這個不該30年才公布一次因為現在的那個調查的技術以及那個大數據的發展不必像以前那麼一個一個去調查那我們可以利用大數據來做那我們這一次做的就是利用大數據那我覺得委員講的剛才非常對是我們會定期做那個定期不會說30年才做一次\n謝謝你這個答覆所以那你認為應該因為現在既然有大數據來調查統計非常容易嘛所以你認為是不是應該定期那你看應該沒幾年一次我跟委員報告一下因為這個存量的資料不會變化很大\n但是啊 各位\n我們有七成的家庭根本沒有達到平均數所以這一千六百三十八萬的平均家戶財富這句話白說的就對了講假的啦\n沒有用嘛七成的家庭沒有達到這個平均數對因為一般來講平均數都會比中位數高所以我們也會有所謂的中位數的一個資料這個是因為我們這個財富跟委員報告一下是扣掉負債有些人他的一個是怎麼樣銀行他\n就是我剛才講的財務槓桿超得過大所以他有資產很高但是負債也很高結果會落入到最低的百分之二十謝謝那個謝謝處長我剛這句話是講給你旁邊這兩位聽的啦我不是針對你齁你很老實你把這些數字很據實的公布出來這是對的齁好那\n那個朱處長你先請回朱主計長你先請回你先請回那個這個我問一下財政部財政部你們大概這先前我們有負人稅嘛\n那麼你們在民國107年你們就把這個富人稅刪除掉了你們那時候就是短短的一句話說為了留財攬財吸引投資就這麼一句話就這麼一句話結果你就把這個富人稅刪掉了那剛才經濟部那個次長\n經濟部一向比較天馬行空他要說這個是為了提高生產韌性生產韌性我倒不知道啦我倒知道你們財政部很韌性你想刪就刪你要討好富人你就這麼韌性的就這樣一句話你就刪了好嗎\n真的你說為了流財攬財吸引投資我就看了這個你們打的這個稅金的所得報告裡面這些你說啊你說有大概鼓勵所得增加678億元可是你如果真的把實質\n鼓勵所得增加678億元你真的去看真正的所得名單都是這些高持股者就是這一些上市櫃營運公司他們本來的擁有者啊你流財攬財在什麼地方我沒有看到任何實質的觀念所以\n我認為你導師應該從你2023年實質總薪資這是七年來頭一次的負成長欸實質總薪資的負成長這才是真的不是這樣嗎然後平均總薪資也是呈現下滑\n這才是真的要關注的問題所以我看不出你們講的那個說鼓勵啊這個所得增加678億這個跟你刪除富人稅什麼直接關係然後現在是工時越來越高薪資越來越低啦那也是\n這個主計總處人家他們有做了這個啦受僱員工每月總工時110年166.7小時111 167.3小時112年到現在是168.3小時工時成長實質薪資所得下降這才是真正的現狀啊那我看你們\n就是我那天也講啊你們部長他就是認為國產稅收這個實質價牢牢的他要守住就對了只對富人減稅其他你休想碰好啊我剛剛就講啊你債當你債\n刪除富人稅的時候你沒有說財政部當時沒有說要有替代財源才可以免除這個稅金有嗎\n沒有啊我跟委員報告齁是不是可以讓我簡單說明一下我們就是當時那個中華所得稅的稅率45%降到40%當時的確是考慮到當時的就是流財攬財跟促進經濟發展我現在問你了你要取消這一條稅說每年啊每年大概100億光23年298億\n報告委員我是不是可以說明一下雖然是剛開始減的時候當然一定會有稅損但是呢如果跟106年跟110年來比較的話我們的薪資所得是增加的6千多億那麼總所得是增加7千多億那麼就稅收來講的話呢\n經濟發展的果實都被極少數\n這些財團富人他們瓜分掉了嘛不是嗎從這幾個數字裡面我剛剛在講我說你要取消富人稅過去啊我們好幾位委員包括我多次談這個不合時宜的稅制太多啦娛樂稅、印花稅、汽機車的貨物稅、汽車關稅等等這一些\n要你們說這些要去調降甚至免除掉像娛樂稅、印花稅啊像機車的貨物稅這個都應該免除跟你們談的時候你們說這個要先找到替代財源一找找替代財源啊從過去的立委到我們現在為止找了30年找什麼找你找了嗎我剛剛光講這幾樣喔光娛樂稅\n一年最高才18億這個印花稅就先不講印花稅比較高\n五十億我就講汽機車的貨物稅四十七億那困擾我們許多生頭小民的還有保健品關稅這個二十六億這三項加起來啊汽機車貨物稅跟娛樂稅跟保養品這些加起來才九十億結果你免除了富人稅一年就免除了一百億\n你們大剌剌的這6年來免除了600億結果你偏要跟深頭小民計較你偏要說我剛講的這個汽機車貨物稅我講的這個娛樂稅你們說要找到替代財源\n報告委員我是不是可以讓我簡單說明一下雖然是我們當時的稅率是45%降到40%但是我們那時候有提出的是配套方案就是所謂的就是我們優化所的稅制方案所以是提高了相關的四大扣除優化的結果優化的結果只是讓窮人更窮富人更富\n這個就是今天主計處給我們的結論嗎不會啦 不會啦事實上很多人是因為這樣的一個改革你這個態度就是不對什麼叫不會那主計總處今天這個調查出來的結論你怎麼解釋\n我認為維京從稅制稅賦上面趕快來做調整我認為加薪減稅加薪減稅的第一步財政部你聽好就是要取消失業率的限制因為你所謂的加薪減稅的方式到現在這麼多年只有實施一次 原因是為什麼你說要連續\n六個月失業率達到3.78%以上那坦白講這麼多年下來就只有一次而已所以這個修正草案多全部都刪除了啦我實在因為沒時間那個趙先生我再念三個數字三件事情一提三分之二的勞工領不到平均薪資中等薪資者十年來沒有加薪那\n最重要的一點公司的營收表現好像有經濟是成長可是經濟成長的果實是極少數富人他們瓜分掉這一點你站在財政部站在負稅署長你責無旁貸你要去想辦法你不要動不動跟經濟部一個樣講一些天馬行空的可不可以\n謝謝委員指教謝謝王世堅委員的質詢緊接著我們請李昆成委員質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.243 --> 00:18.071\n副稅屬宋署長阮次長宋署長你好委員好三位好這個我們今天啊\n\n00:19.110 --> 00:34.926\n主要的主題要來探討平負差距嚴重惡化那也謝謝主計處總算我們等了30年又來了這一份30年前的報告跟30年之後的調查\n\n00:36.147 --> 00:47.397\n那麼30年前我們前20%的家庭財富所得1306萬當時候20%的所得78萬差距16.8倍30年之後我們前20%的財富所得5133萬後20%的財富所得\n\n01:03.871 --> 01:26.131\n沒有增加反而倒減一萬元七十七萬這個差距從16.8倍一下子惡化到66.9倍66.9倍有錢的財富高所得的前20%\n\n01:28.055 --> 01:40.859\n跟後28差距66.9倍啦所以這是非常大非常嚴重的問題那麼我先請教主計處長後那個處長\n\n01:44.455 --> 02:07.527\n這是30年來才公布這麼一次所以是不是未來我們應該縮短這個期限應該每幾年就應該公布一次讓各部會知所警惕趕快找出什麼樣的方式來說斷我們社會財富的分配所以那個\n\n02:10.818 --> 02:39.341\n處長你有沒有認為應該是怎麼樣我是認為說這個不該30年才公布一次因為現在的那個調查的技術以及那個大數據的發展不必像以前那麼一個一個去調查那我們可以利用大數據來做那我們這一次做的就是利用大數據那我覺得委員講的剛才非常對是我們會定期做那個定期不會說30年才做一次\n\n02:41.236 --> 02:59.115\n謝謝你這個答覆所以那你認為應該因為現在既然有大數據來調查統計非常容易嘛所以你認為是不是應該定期那你看應該沒幾年一次我跟委員報告一下因為這個存量的資料不會變化很大\n\n02:59.475 --> 02:59.975\n但是啊各位\n\n03:27.341 --> 03:42.946\n我們有七成的家庭根本沒有達到平均數所以這一千六百三十八萬的平均家戶財富這句話白說的就對了講假的啦\n\n03:43.905 --> 04:08.617\n沒有用嘛七成的家庭沒有達到這個平均數對因為一般來講平均數都會比中位數高所以我們也會有所謂的中位數的一個資料這個是因為我們這個財富跟委員報告一下是扣掉負債有些人他的一個是怎麼樣銀行他\n\n04:09.797 --> 04:36.360\n就是我剛才講的財務槓桿超得過大所以他有資產很高但是負債也很高結果會落入到最低的百分之二十謝謝那個謝謝處長我剛這句話是講給你旁邊這兩位聽的啦我不是針對你齁你很老實你把這些數字很據實的公布出來這是對的齁好那\n\n04:37.133 --> 04:43.558\n那個朱處長你先請回朱主計長你先請回你先請回那個這個我問一下財政部財政部你們大概這先前我們有負人稅嘛\n\n04:56.127 --> 05:16.191\n那麼你們在民國107年你們就把這個富人稅刪除掉了你們那時候就是短短的一句話說為了留財攬財吸引投資就這麼一句話就這麼一句話結果你就把這個富人稅刪掉了那剛才經濟部那個次長\n\n05:21.051 --> 05:44.483\n經濟部一向比較天馬行空他要說這個是為了提高生產韌性生產韌性我倒不知道啦我倒知道你們財政部很韌性你想刪就刪你要討好富人你就這麼韌性的就這樣一句話你就刪了好嗎\n\n05:46.132 --> 06:07.689\n真的你說為了流財攬財吸引投資我就看了這個你們打的這個稅金的所得報告裡面這些你說啊你說有大概鼓勵所得增加678億元可是你如果真的把實質\n\n06:09.966 --> 06:33.535\n鼓勵所得增加678億元你真的去看真正的所得名單都是這些高持股者就是這一些上市櫃營運公司他們本來的擁有者啊你流財攬財在什麼地方我沒有看到任何實質的觀念所以\n\n06:34.878 --> 06:45.862\n我認為你導師應該從你2023年實質總薪資這是七年來頭一次的負成長欸實質總薪資的負成長這才是真的不是這樣嗎然後平均總薪資也是呈現下滑\n\n06:56.796 --> 07:14.925\n這才是真的要關注的問題所以我看不出你們講的那個說鼓勵啊這個所得增加678億這個跟你刪除富人稅什麼直接關係然後現在是工時越來越高薪資越來越低啦那也是\n\n07:20.121 --> 07:30.548\n這個主計總處人家他們有做了這個啦受僱員工每月總工時110年166.7小時111167.3小時112年到現在是168.3小時工時成長實質薪資所得下降這才是真正的現狀啊那我看你們\n\n07:49.141 --> 08:11.805\n就是我那天也講啊你們部長他就是認為國產稅收這個實質價牢牢的他要守住就對了只對富人減稅其他你休想碰好啊我剛剛就講啊你債當你債\n\n08:16.423 --> 08:24.601\n刪除富人稅的時候你沒有說財政部當時沒有說要有替代財源才可以免除這個稅金有嗎\n\n08:26.616 --> 08:50.537\n沒有啊我跟委員報告齁是不是可以讓我簡單說明一下我們就是當時那個中華所得稅的稅率45%降到40%當時的確是考慮到當時的就是流財攬財跟促進經濟發展我現在問你了你要取消這一條稅說每年啊每年大概100億光23年298億\n\n08:54.800 --> 09:17.718\n報告委員我是不是可以說明一下雖然是剛開始減的時候當然一定會有稅損但是呢如果跟106年跟110年來比較的話我們的薪資所得是增加的6千多億那麼總所得是增加7千多億那麼就稅收來講的話呢\n\n09:19.019 --> 09:19.579\n經濟發展的果實都被極少數\n\n09:40.067 --> 09:48.552\n這些財團富人他們瓜分掉了嘛不是嗎從這幾個數字裡面我剛剛在講我說你要取消富人稅過去啊我們好幾位委員包括我多次談這個不合時宜的稅制太多啦娛樂稅、印花稅、汽機車的貨物稅、汽車關稅等等這一些\n\n10:07.360 --> 10:32.161\n要你們說這些要去調降甚至免除掉像娛樂稅、印花稅啊像機車的貨物稅這個都應該免除跟你們談的時候你們說這個要先找到替代財源一找找替代財源啊從過去的立委到我們現在為止找了30年找什麼找你找了嗎我剛剛光講這幾樣喔光娛樂稅\n\n10:36.069 --> 10:39.236\n一年最高才18億這個印花稅就先不講印花稅比較高\n\n10:42.810 --> 11:07.457\n五十億我就講汽機車的貨物稅四十七億那困擾我們許多生頭小民的還有保健品關稅這個二十六億這三項加起來啊汽機車貨物稅跟娛樂稅跟保養品這些加起來才九十億結果你免除了富人稅一年就免除了一百億\n\n11:09.107 --> 11:19.576\n你們大剌剌的這6年來免除了600億結果你偏要跟深頭小民計較你偏要說我剛講的這個汽機車貨物稅我講的這個娛樂稅你們說要找到替代財源\n\n11:25.120 --> 11:44.585\n報告委員我是不是可以讓我簡單說明一下雖然是我們當時的稅率是45%降到40%但是我們那時候有提出的是配套方案就是所謂的就是我們優化所的稅制方案所以是提高了相關的四大扣除優化的結果優化的結果只是讓窮人更窮富人更富\n\n11:50.806 --> 12:00.158\n這個就是今天主計處給我們的結論嗎不會啦不會啦事實上很多人是因為這樣的一個改革你這個態度就是不對什麼叫不會那主計總處今天這個調查出來的結論你怎麼解釋\n\n12:04.052 --> 12:28.380\n我認為維京從稅制稅賦上面趕快來做調整我認為加薪減稅加薪減稅的第一步財政部你聽好就是要取消失業率的限制因為你所謂的加薪減稅的方式到現在這麼多年只有實施一次原因是為什麼你說要連續\n\n12:31.277 --> 12:56.202\n六個月失業率達到3.78%以上那坦白講這麼多年下來就只有一次而已所以這個修正草案多全部都刪除了啦我實在因為沒時間那個趙先生我再念三個數字三件事情一提三分之二的勞工領不到平均薪資中等薪資者十年來沒有加薪那\n\n12:57.594 --> 13:22.749\n最重要的一點公司的營收表現好像有經濟是成長可是經濟成長的果實是極少數富人他們瓜分掉這一點你站在財政部站在負稅署長你責無旁貸你要去想辦法你不要動不動跟經濟部一個樣講一些天馬行空的可不可以\n\n13:24.392 --> 13:29.103\n謝謝委員指教謝謝王世堅委員的質詢緊接著我們請李昆成委員質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.243,"end":18.071,"text":"副稅屬宋署長阮次長宋署長你好委員好三位好這個我們今天啊"},{"start":19.11,"end":34.926,"text":"主要的主題要來探討平負差距嚴重惡化那也謝謝主計處總算我們等了30年又來了這一份30年前的報告跟30年之後的調查"},{"start":36.147,"end":47.397,"text":"那麼30年前我們前20%的家庭財富所得1306萬當時候20%的所得78萬差距16.8倍30年之後我們前20%的財富所得5133萬後20%的財富所得"},{"start":63.871,"end":86.131,"text":"沒有增加反而倒減一萬元七十七萬這個差距從16.8倍一下子惡化到66.9倍66.9倍有錢的財富高所得的前20%"},{"start":88.055,"end":100.859,"text":"跟後28差距66.9倍啦所以這是非常大非常嚴重的問題那麼我先請教主計處長後那個 處長"},{"start":104.455,"end":127.527,"text":"這是30年來才公布這麼一次所以是不是未來我們應該縮短這個期限應該每幾年就應該公布一次讓各部會知所警惕趕快找出什麼樣的方式來說斷我們社會財富的分配所以那個"},{"start":130.818,"end":159.341,"text":"處長你有沒有認為應該是怎麼樣我是認為說這個不該30年才公布一次因為現在的那個調查的技術以及那個大數據的發展不必像以前那麼一個一個去調查那我們可以利用大數據來做那我們這一次做的就是利用大數據那我覺得委員講的剛才非常對是我們會定期做那個定期不會說30年才做一次"},{"start":161.236,"end":179.115,"text":"謝謝你這個答覆所以那你認為應該因為現在既然有大數據來調查統計非常容易嘛所以你認為是不是應該定期那你看應該沒幾年一次我跟委員報告一下因為這個存量的資料不會變化很大"},{"start":179.475,"end":179.975,"text":"但是啊 各位"},{"start":207.341,"end":222.946,"text":"我們有七成的家庭根本沒有達到平均數所以這一千六百三十八萬的平均家戶財富這句話白說的就對了講假的啦"},{"start":223.905,"end":248.617,"text":"沒有用嘛七成的家庭沒有達到這個平均數對因為一般來講平均數都會比中位數高所以我們也會有所謂的中位數的一個資料這個是因為我們這個財富跟委員報告一下是扣掉負債有些人他的一個是怎麼樣銀行他"},{"start":249.797,"end":276.36,"text":"就是我剛才講的財務槓桿超得過大所以他有資產很高但是負債也很高結果會落入到最低的百分之二十謝謝那個謝謝處長我剛這句話是講給你旁邊這兩位聽的啦我不是針對你齁你很老實你把這些數字很據實的公布出來這是對的齁好那"},{"start":277.133,"end":283.558,"text":"那個朱處長你先請回朱主計長你先請回你先請回那個這個我問一下財政部財政部你們大概這先前我們有負人稅嘛"},{"start":296.127,"end":316.191,"text":"那麼你們在民國107年你們就把這個富人稅刪除掉了你們那時候就是短短的一句話說為了留財攬財吸引投資就這麼一句話就這麼一句話結果你就把這個富人稅刪掉了那剛才經濟部那個次長"},{"start":321.051,"end":344.483,"text":"經濟部一向比較天馬行空他要說這個是為了提高生產韌性生產韌性我倒不知道啦我倒知道你們財政部很韌性你想刪就刪你要討好富人你就這麼韌性的就這樣一句話你就刪了好嗎"},{"start":346.132,"end":367.689,"text":"真的你說為了流財攬財吸引投資我就看了這個你們打的這個稅金的所得報告裡面這些你說啊你說有大概鼓勵所得增加678億元可是你如果真的把實質"},{"start":369.966,"end":393.535,"text":"鼓勵所得增加678億元你真的去看真正的所得名單都是這些高持股者就是這一些上市櫃營運公司他們本來的擁有者啊你流財攬財在什麼地方我沒有看到任何實質的觀念所以"},{"start":394.878,"end":405.862,"text":"我認為你導師應該從你2023年實質總薪資這是七年來頭一次的負成長欸實質總薪資的負成長這才是真的不是這樣嗎然後平均總薪資也是呈現下滑"},{"start":416.796,"end":434.925,"text":"這才是真的要關注的問題所以我看不出你們講的那個說鼓勵啊這個所得增加678億這個跟你刪除富人稅什麼直接關係然後現在是工時越來越高薪資越來越低啦那也是"},{"start":440.121,"end":450.548,"text":"這個主計總處人家他們有做了這個啦受僱員工每月總工時110年166.7小時111 167.3小時112年到現在是168.3小時工時成長實質薪資所得下降這才是真正的現狀啊那我看你們"},{"start":469.141,"end":491.805,"text":"就是我那天也講啊你們部長他就是認為國產稅收這個實質價牢牢的他要守住就對了只對富人減稅其他你休想碰好啊我剛剛就講啊你債當你債"},{"start":496.423,"end":504.601,"text":"刪除富人稅的時候你沒有說財政部當時沒有說要有替代財源才可以免除這個稅金有嗎"},{"start":506.616,"end":530.537,"text":"沒有啊我跟委員報告齁是不是可以讓我簡單說明一下我們就是當時那個中華所得稅的稅率45%降到40%當時的確是考慮到當時的就是流財攬財跟促進經濟發展我現在問你了你要取消這一條稅說每年啊每年大概100億光23年298億"},{"start":534.8,"end":557.718,"text":"報告委員我是不是可以說明一下雖然是剛開始減的時候當然一定會有稅損但是呢如果跟106年跟110年來比較的話我們的薪資所得是增加的6千多億那麼總所得是增加7千多億那麼就稅收來講的話呢"},{"start":559.019,"end":559.579,"text":"經濟發展的果實都被極少數"},{"start":580.067,"end":588.552,"text":"這些財團富人他們瓜分掉了嘛不是嗎從這幾個數字裡面我剛剛在講我說你要取消富人稅過去啊我們好幾位委員包括我多次談這個不合時宜的稅制太多啦娛樂稅、印花稅、汽機車的貨物稅、汽車關稅等等這一些"},{"start":607.36,"end":632.161,"text":"要你們說這些要去調降甚至免除掉像娛樂稅、印花稅啊像機車的貨物稅這個都應該免除跟你們談的時候你們說這個要先找到替代財源一找找替代財源啊從過去的立委到我們現在為止找了30年找什麼找你找了嗎我剛剛光講這幾樣喔光娛樂稅"},{"start":636.069,"end":639.236,"text":"一年最高才18億這個印花稅就先不講印花稅比較高"},{"start":642.81,"end":667.457,"text":"五十億我就講汽機車的貨物稅四十七億那困擾我們許多生頭小民的還有保健品關稅這個二十六億這三項加起來啊汽機車貨物稅跟娛樂稅跟保養品這些加起來才九十億結果你免除了富人稅一年就免除了一百億"},{"start":669.107,"end":679.576,"text":"你們大剌剌的這6年來免除了600億結果你偏要跟深頭小民計較你偏要說我剛講的這個汽機車貨物稅我講的這個娛樂稅你們說要找到替代財源"},{"start":685.12,"end":704.585,"text":"報告委員我是不是可以讓我簡單說明一下雖然是我們當時的稅率是45%降到40%但是我們那時候有提出的是配套方案就是所謂的就是我們優化所的稅制方案所以是提高了相關的四大扣除優化的結果優化的結果只是讓窮人更窮富人更富"},{"start":710.806,"end":720.158,"text":"這個就是今天主計處給我們的結論嗎不會啦 不會啦事實上很多人是因為這樣的一個改革你這個態度就是不對什麼叫不會那主計總處今天這個調查出來的結論你怎麼解釋"},{"start":724.052,"end":748.38,"text":"我認為維京從稅制稅賦上面趕快來做調整我認為加薪減稅加薪減稅的第一步財政部你聽好就是要取消失業率的限制因為你所謂的加薪減稅的方式到現在這麼多年只有實施一次 原因是為什麼你說要連續"},{"start":751.277,"end":776.202,"text":"六個月失業率達到3.78%以上那坦白講這麼多年下來就只有一次而已所以這個修正草案多全部都刪除了啦我實在因為沒時間那個趙先生我再念三個數字三件事情一提三分之二的勞工領不到平均薪資中等薪資者十年來沒有加薪那"},{"start":777.594,"end":802.749,"text":"最重要的一點公司的營收表現好像有經濟是成長可是經濟成長的果實是極少數富人他們瓜分掉這一點你站在財政部站在負稅署長你責無旁貸你要去想辦法你不要動不動跟經濟部一個樣講一些天馬行空的可不可以"},{"start":804.392,"end":809.103,"text":"謝謝委員指教謝謝王世堅委員的質詢緊接著我們請李昆成委員質詢"}]}}}}