{"id":151964,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151964","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/75811ef35c27466bf786b93e4d9f6e85900bfbad7a56e18f7f5010e630711919db806415cfe579a85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"11:30:35 - 11:42:25","影片長度":"00:11:50","會議時間":"2024-05-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處朱主計長澤民、財政部莊部長翠雲、經濟部、國家發展委員會、勞動部就「如何改善受僱人員報酬占 GDP 比重偏低現象，導引企業與勞工共享獲利，提升我國勞工實質薪資」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-01","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-11"},"duration":710,"end_time":"2024-05-01T11:42:25+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-01T11:30:35+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":811,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（11時30分）謝謝主席，我先請主計長。"],["主席：有請主計長。"],["朱主計長澤民：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：主計長早。主計長，我之前請問您我們要在4月底公布家庭財富所得的差距。"],["朱主計長澤民：是的。"],["王委員鴻薇：我當時還太低估了，我說時隔30年，會不會超過20倍？你說還在計算，那時候我在想一定大於20倍；沒有想到，時隔30年，我們臺灣家庭財富的差距可以說是越來越大，而且真的是超乎原來我們的想像。根據你們所公布的資料，你可以看到，這是聯合報所做圖片，臺灣真的是一個……"],["朱主計長澤民：跟委員報告，這個是我們做的。"],["王委員鴻薇：這是你們做的圖片？好。做得很好，但是這裡面其實充分地說明，我們的貧富差距是如此之大，而且絕大部分的家庭事實上都在金字塔的底層，我們家庭財富的平均數是1,638萬，結果有七成的家庭根本沒有達到！所以就可以看到在整個金字塔上端的財富，事實上真的掌握臺灣主要的財富。","我們可以看到，整個前20%家庭的財富超過5,000萬，而後20%家庭的財富是77萬。我覺得他們的占比讓大家覺得更為驚訝，後20%的家庭占總體財富連1%都不到，然後前20%家庭的財富占臺灣總體財富超過六成。請教一下主計長，你那天也講這是你的使命，當你看到這樣的數字、結果的時候，你自己有沒有覺得非常驚訝，覺得臺灣……"],["朱主計長澤民：我沒有驚訝，因為這個數目字跟其他國家比較起來，是其他國家的……我甚至講，您這個表上所謂的後1%、就是1的那個，在德國是負的，在美國也是負的，可是它用1塊錢來表示，就是最低的20%在其他有些國家是負的。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以主計長，我們比爛就是了？"],["朱主計長澤民：我沒有比爛，我們國際間沒有比爛，只是把數目字比較起來去給大家看……"],["王委員鴻薇：你覺得這樣子的結果很OK？"],["朱主計長澤民：一般的人沒有這個最高、最低……"],["王委員鴻薇：你覺得這樣的結果很OK？我們貧富差距能夠拉到這麼大，你覺得很OK？"],["朱主計長澤民：我沒有說很OK，我沒有說很OK，我只是說我們前面……"],["王委員鴻薇：我們後20%家庭的財富可以再少一點，他們已經很多了，是這個意思嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：我們前面20%占整體財富的比率並沒有比國外的高，一般國外都是只公布前20%，沒有最高跟最低在比較，因為我剛才講，最低如果是負的話，或者是1塊錢的話，差距根本不能比，所以它根本沒有最高跟最低在比較，是我們國內……"],["王委員鴻薇：我們跟我們自己比嘛！我們30年前是16.8倍，當時大家就覺得這個差距已經非常、非常地明顯；現在差了66.9倍，然後我們說沒關係，相比美國、澳洲，我們沒有什麼關係。請問一下……"],["朱主計長澤民：我沒有說沒有什麼關係，這個是拿一個資料出來給大家參考。"],["王委員鴻薇：這不是參考，這是說明我們的貧富差距如此之大，參考什麼！政府政策是孰令致之？好，所以時間暫停一下……"],["朱主計長澤民：這個我必須講，財富重分配如果是……"],["王委員鴻薇：你不用講了啦！胡扯！不要講了！時間暫停！聽不下去了！","我再請財政部次長、經濟部次長跟國發會副主委。"],["主席：有請阮次、林次、施副主委。"],["王委員鴻薇：主計長，我沒有請你回去喔。主席，我有請主計長回去嗎？"],["主席：主計長，請旁邊稍候一下。"],["阮次長清華：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：我先請財政部。在這個數字出來之後，我們看到一些學者專家認為臺灣的貧富差距之所以拉大，主要是稅制的問題，請問一下次長，你同意嗎？"],["阮次長清華：我跟委員報告，雖然是說財富分配有擴大，但是就納稅來講，我們現在繳稅其實還是高所得者在繳稅，比如現在綜合所得稅占最高的、占40%的大概0.86%，但是他繳的稅占了大概將近45%……"],["王委員鴻薇：好，綜合所得稅大部分來自於什麼所得呢？"],["阮次長清華：當然，各種所得都有，每一個都會……"],["王委員鴻薇：薪資所得占多少？"],["阮次長清華：有薪資所得，也有股利所有。"],["王委員鴻薇：薪資所得占多少？"],["阮次長清華：我現在手上沒有這個資料，是不是會後……"],["王委員鴻薇：怎麼會沒有資料？你來這邊沒有資料？"],["阮次長清華：我會後再……"],["王委員鴻薇：這個數字很多人都滾瓜爛熟了，我們大概七成來自於薪資所得。"],["阮次長清華：我是不是請宋署長跟你說明一下？"],["王委員鴻薇：不要講了，我都知道，大概七成來自於薪資所得。所以很多的學者專家認為，今天要讓我們的貧富差距能夠拉平有兩種手段，一種就是稅制，另外一種手段事實上就是社會福利，對不對？"],["阮次長清華：對，沒錯。"],["王委員鴻薇：一般學者專家都會認為有這兩種手段。社會福利是一種比較屬於用補助的方式，但是在稅制上，不可諱言地，在我們所得稅裡面，對資本所得課稅太少，而對一般上班族的薪資課稅太重，因為我們主要的所得稅稅源來自於薪資所得，所以很多人會認為在稅制上是不是可以做一些改變？比如有人提到要不要復徵證所稅的問題，我個人認為，我們過去每一次去課徵證所稅，其實最後都無疾而終，它在技術上或政治上的效應太大。"],["阮次長清華：對。"],["王委員鴻薇：但是我們能不能夠在整個綜合所得稅裡面不要這麼完全地仰賴薪資所得？個事實上是可以去改善、可以檢討的，不能嗎？"],["阮次長清華：我跟委員報告，雖然薪資所得占了大概七成，但是它的納稅占比大概51%到55%左右，所以基本上還是其他的高所得、其他的所得在繳稅，這是第一點。"],["王委員鴻薇：稅制事實上是可以，其實我們確實還是可以檢討。來，時間暫停一下，我請國發會副主委。"],["主席：施副主委請。"],["施副主任委員克和：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：副主委，看到這個數字，現在全臺灣的貧富差距這麼大，我們的財富如此地集中，就國發會的角色來說，有沒有辦法可以再做些什麼政策上的修正及改變，讓我們的貧富差距不會像國外……我們去比國外，國外那個就是不對呀！所以才會造成……以前華爾街不是就這樣子嗎？1%的人擁有99%的財富，我們要像這樣子嗎？所以剛剛主計長的說法，我完全沒有辦法接受啊！搞什麼鬼啊，我們要跟美國去學習嗎？時間有限。對國發會來說，在解決或改善家庭貧富差距上，我們還有些什麼手段？"],["施副主任委員克和：跟委員報告，如同剛剛委員所提到的，在主計總處這次的財富調查，平常是所得面，如同剛剛委員所提到的，除了在政府移轉收入（就是社福政策）或是移轉支出的部分（租稅的政策）去做調整之外，剛才提到我們的所得結構有營利所得、資本所得及薪資所得，事實上根據學界的一些討論及正在討論的，資本利得基本上包含交易或持有的部分的確在稅制上面可以做討論的。"],["王委員鴻薇：我覺得我們現在的稅制真的太完全集中在一些薪資所得。然後我們看下一頁，這個其實就是我們今天專題報告的重點，也就是我們受僱人員的報酬占GDP的比率，因為我們就是認為它偏低，所以事實上也使得很多年輕人、使得很多原來是以薪資、受僱者為主的家庭，他沒有觸及資本利得、他沒有去玩股票、他沒有錢去買房，而這些族群要去累積財富就非常的困難，所以臺灣就變成怎麼樣呢？跟國外一樣錢滾錢，錢滾錢很容易，但是你用勞力所得去累積你的財富就非常的困難，你就會落在後段班，而你完全沒有辦法供養，所以這就是我們今天的報告裡面為什麼希望能夠做一些改善，對於薪資所得者、對受僱者能不能再多照顧一些？好，其實今天還有一個訊息，就是我們一直說希望能夠提高工資，但是我們大學畢業生每四人就有一個人是領基本工資，而且即便他已經做了一年，還是有很多人，他的薪水還在領基本工資，所以他如何去累積財富呢？這才是我們今天為什麼要有這樣的一個專題報告，而這樣的趨勢就會讓很多年輕人變成什麼呢？躺平族！我沒有辦法再努力了，我也不敢去結婚，我也沒有辦法去生小孩，我也不會買房子，我甚至連車子都沒有辦法買，就像那個日本一樣，臺灣也越來越多會變成這樣，所以為什麼今天我要特別提到我肯定主計處時隔30年願意做一個財富調查報告，但是我完全不肯定剛才主計長的態度，說這不過是參考而已，參考什麼？如果只是請你看看而已，那有什麼好做的呢？這叫做什麼使命呢？所以我才希望我們各部會能把這個調查跟我們今天的報告做一個連結。","我剛剛就在講，如果今天我們對資本利得在整個稅制上沒有辦法去做一些改變，那麼臺灣變成一個錢滾錢、錢賺錢的時代，我們今天是五一勞動節，今天就是五一勞動節喔，我們對於廣大的勞工，他用薪資所得，他是受僱人員，我們是對不起他們的，好不好？請你們真的正視這兩個問題。"],["主席：謝謝王鴻薇委員質詢。接著我們請黃珊珊委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":122,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-11","speakers":["郭國文","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","李彥秀","賴惠員","王世堅","李坤城","王鴻薇","黃珊珊","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","羅明才","顏寬恒","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳玉珍","黃秀芳","陳冠廷"],"page_start":51,"meetingDate":["2024-05-01"],"gazette_id":"1133601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133601_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院主計總處朱主計長澤民、財政部莊部長翠雲、經濟部、國家發展委員會、勞動部就\n「如何改善受僱人員報酬占 GDP 比重偏低現象，導引企業與勞工共享獲利，提升我國勞工實質\n薪資」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1133601_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"151964","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151964","tool":"pyannote","id":"151964-pyannote"},"job_id":"PdcP4PvGjjGpxKEP","queued_at":"2024-05-31 14:43:21","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 14:44:16","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151964"},{"time":"2024-05-31 14:44:17","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/75811ef35c27466bf786b93e4d9f6e85900bfbad7a56e18fa84068aa5847eb8941d823e46ab58e485ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-05-31 14:44:44","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-05-31 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{\"word\": \"著\", \"start\": 680.167, \"end\": 680.267, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 680.267, \"end\": 680.327, \"score\": 0.339}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"珊\", \"start\": 680.327, \"end\": 680.347, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"珊\", \"start\": 680.347, \"end\": 680.427, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 680.427, \"end\": 680.447, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,249 --> 00:00:20,881\n主計長我之前就是請問您就是我們要在4月底公布我們的家庭財富那個所得的這個差距那麼我當時呢我還太低估了我說時隔30年會不會超過20倍你說還在計算那時候我就想說一定\n\n2\n00:00:21,421 --> 00:00:23,222\n這是我們做的這是你們做的圖片做得很好\n\n3\n00:00:50,083 --> 00:01:03,290\n但是這裡面其實充分的說明我們的貧富差距是如此之大而且絕大部分的家庭事實上他們都在金字塔的底層\n\n4\n00:01:04,591 --> 00:01:24,194\n我們的平均數家庭財富的平均數是1638萬結果有七成的家庭根本沒有達到所以就可以看到整個的金字塔這個在金字塔上端的財富他們私上真的掌握台灣真的主要的財富我們看一下下一頁\n\n5\n00:01:26,377 --> 00:01:40,563\n我們可以看到整個前20%的家庭他們的家庭財富是超過5000萬而後20%的家庭財富是77萬我覺得他們的占比事實上讓大家覺得更為驚訝\n\n6\n00:01:43,384 --> 00:02:05,909\n後20%家庭占總體財富連1%都不到然後前20%占台灣總體財富超過6成所以請教一下主計長你那天也講這是你一個使命當你看到這樣的一個數字一個這樣的結果的時候你自己有沒有覺得非常驚訝\n\n7\n00:02:07,890 --> 00:02:21,526\n我沒有驚訝因為我們這個數目跟其他國家比較起來是其他國家的那個我甚至講這個表上所謂的後百分之一就是一的那個在德國是負的\n\n8\n00:02:21,986 --> 00:02:23,868\n所以主計長我們比爛就是了你覺得這樣子的結果很OK?\n\n9\n00:02:43,763 --> 00:02:43,923\n王鴻薇議員\n\n10\n00:03:00,845 --> 00:03:26,807\n比國外的那一個高一般國外都是只公佈前20%沒有最高跟最低在比較因為我剛才講最低如果是負的話或者是一塊錢的話就會說差距就根本不能比所以他根本沒有在最高跟最低在比較是我們跟我們自己比嘛我們30年前16.8倍當時大家就覺得說這個差距已經非常非常的明顯\n\n11\n00:03:27,968 --> 00:03:47,896\n現在呢差了66.9倍然後我們說沒關係啦我們比美國啦我們比澳洲啦沒有什麼關係我沒有說沒有什麼關係這個是拿一個資料出來給大家參考這不是參考這是我們的說明我們的貧富差距差距如此之大參考什麼\n\n12\n00:03:49,076 --> 00:04:13,664\n政府政策是屬令制止好雖時間在停下你不用講了啦胡扯不要講啦時間在停聽不下去了來我再請我們財政部今天的次長經濟部次長能卓大會的副主委是副主委\n\n13\n00:04:16,414 --> 00:04:22,295\n主計長我們有請你回去喔主席我要請主計長回去嗎那主計長請旁邊稍候一下喔你好好我先請財政部在這個數字出來之後我們看到一些學者專家認為臺灣的財富差距之所以這個貧富差距拉大主要是稅制的問題那請問一下次長你同意嗎\n\n14\n00:04:44,821 --> 00:05:13,138\n我跟委員報告雖然是說這個就是說這個財富這個分配有擴大但是就納稅來講我們現在其實繳稅還是高所得繳稅比如說我們現在中和所得稅占最高的占40%的大概百分之0.86但是他繳的稅他占了大概將近四成五大部分來自於什麼所得呢\n\n15\n00:05:15,317 --> 00:05:19,138\n這個所得當然各種所得都有新資所得占多少我現在手上沒有這個資料你來這邊沒有資料\n\n16\n00:05:27,973 --> 00:05:46,945\n這個組織很多人都滾瓜爛熟了我們才七成來自於我們薪資所得我都知道大概七成的來自於薪資所得所以在我們很多學者專家認為今天要讓我們的貧富渣聚能夠拉平有兩種\n\n17\n00:05:48,686 --> 00:06:08,351\n兩種手段一種就是稅制另外一種手段事實上就是社會福利對不對對這是一般學者在家都會認為有這兩種手段但是社會福利是一種比較屬於我的一個用補助的方式但是我們在稅制上我們不可諱言的\n\n18\n00:06:09,011 --> 00:06:30,746\n在我們所得稅裡面對資本所得科稅太少而對薪資一般的上班族科稅太重因為我們主要的所得稅的稅源來自於我們的薪資所得所以在這樣的一個很多人會認為說我們在稅制上是不是可以做一些改變比如說有人會提到這個應該要不要複徵證所稅的問題\n\n19\n00:06:35,689 --> 00:07:00,349\n當然我個人對於因為我們過去每一次去科證所稅其實最後都無疾而終它在技術上或它在政治上的效應太大但是我們能不能夠在整個的綜合所得稅裡面不要這麼完全的仰賴薪資所得這個事上是可以去改善可以檢討的不能嗎?\n\n20\n00:07:02,170 --> 00:07:21,794\n我跟委員報告我們雖然新生所得是佔了大概七成就所得的佔七成但是他的納稅他佔比大概百分之五十一到百分之五十五左右所以其他的還是基本上還是其他的高所得其他的所得在繳稅稅制事上是可以其實我們確實還是可以去檢討來時間暫停一下我請國發會的副主委\n\n21\n00:07:28,956 --> 00:07:31,300\n看到這個數字現在全台灣的貧富差距這麼大然後\n\n22\n00:07:38,908 --> 00:08:07,338\n我們的財富如此的集中那麼救國發會的角色來說有沒有辦法可以再做些什麼政策上的修正跟改變讓我們的貧富差距不會像國外我們去比國外國外這個就是不對啊所以才會造成以前華爾街不就這樣子嗎百分之一的人有百分之九十九的財富我們要像這樣子嗎所以剛剛主計長的說法我完全沒有辦法接受啊\n\n23\n00:08:08,098 --> 00:08:21,339\n高什麼鬼啊我們要跟美國去學習嗎好時間有限對國發會來說在我們要去解決或者是改善我們家庭這個貧富差距我們還有些什麼手段\n\n24\n00:08:22,199 --> 00:08:50,455\n跟委員報告,如同委員剛所提到的在主總的這次的調查是財富的調查那平常是我們所得面那所得面如同剛委員所提到的在政府移轉的收入就是社福的政策或是移轉支出的部分租稅的政策去做調整之外剛才所提到的我們的所得結構有盈利所得、資本所得跟薪資所得那事實上在學界的一些討論和政策討論資本利的基本上包含它在交易或是持有的部分的確在稅制上面是可以做討論的\n\n25\n00:08:51,394 --> 00:09:09,383\n我覺得就是我們現在的稅制真的太完全集中在一些薪資所得好,然後我們看下一頁這個其實就是我們今天這個專題報告的一個重點也就是我們在受僱人員的報酬占在GDP的比例因為我們就是認為他偏低\n\n26\n00:09:10,043 --> 00:09:30,209\n那所以也事實上使得我們的很多的年輕人使得我們很多原來他們是以薪資以受僱者為主的家庭他沒有去觸及一些資本利得他沒有去玩股票他沒有錢去買房而這些族群他要去累積財富他就非常的困難\n\n27\n00:09:31,209 --> 00:09:51,926\n所以就變成臺灣怎麼樣呢跟國外養錢滾錢錢滾錢很容易但是你用勞力所得去累積你的財富就非常的困難你就會落在後段班而你完全沒有辦法養工所以這就是我們今天的報告裡面為什麼希望能夠做一些改善對於薪資所得者\n\n28\n00:09:52,766 --> 00:10:15,451\n對受僱者能不能再多照顧一些好來看下一頁其實今天還有一個訊息啊就是我們說一直希望能夠提高工資但是我們大學畢業生每四人就有一個人是領基本工資而且即便他已經做一年囉還是有很多人他的薪水還在領基本工資\n\n29\n00:10:16,431 --> 00:10:28,404\n所以他如何去累積財富呢這才是說我們今天為什麼要有這樣的一個專題報告而這樣的趨勢就會變成很多年輕人變成什麼呢躺平族\n\n30\n00:10:29,397 --> 00:10:56,986\n我沒有辦法再努力了我也不敢去結婚我也沒有辦法去生小孩我也不會買房子我甚至連車子都沒有辦法買就像那個什麼就像日本一樣台灣也越來越多會變成這樣所以為什麼今天我要特別提到我肯定主計處時隔30年願意做一個財富調查報告但是我完全不肯定剛才主計長的態度說這不過是參考而已參考什麼\n\n31\n00:10:57,546 --> 00:11:18,545\n如果只是請你就說看看而已那有什麼好做的呢這叫做什麼使命呢所以我才希望我們各部會能把這個調查跟我們今天的報告做一個連結我剛就在講如果今天我們對於資本利得我們在整個的稅制上沒有辦法去做一些改變\n\n32\n00:11:19,807 --> 00:11:20,447\n謝謝王鴻薇的質詢,接著我們請黃珊珊委員質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n249\t20881\t主計長我之前就是請問您就是我們要在4月底公布我們的家庭財富那個所得的這個差距那麼我當時呢我還太低估了我說時隔30年會不會超過20倍你說還在計算那時候我就想說一定\n21421\t23222\t這是我們做的這是你們做的圖片做得很好\n50083\t63290\t但是這裡面其實充分的說明我們的貧富差距是如此之大而且絕大部分的家庭事實上他們都在金字塔的底層\n64591\t84194\t我們的平均數家庭財富的平均數是1638萬結果有七成的家庭根本沒有達到所以就可以看到整個的金字塔這個在金字塔上端的財富他們私上真的掌握台灣真的主要的財富我們看一下下一頁\n86377\t100563\t我們可以看到整個前20%的家庭他們的家庭財富是超過5000萬而後20%的家庭財富是77萬我覺得他們的占比事實上讓大家覺得更為驚訝\n103384\t125909\t後20%家庭占總體財富連1%都不到然後前20%占台灣總體財富超過6成所以請教一下主計長你那天也講這是你一個使命當你看到這樣的一個數字一個這樣的結果的時候你自己有沒有覺得非常驚訝\n127890\t141526\t我沒有驚訝因為我們這個數目跟其他國家比較起來是其他國家的那個我甚至講這個表上所謂的後百分之一就是一的那個在德國是負的\n141986\t143868\t所以主計長我們比爛就是了你覺得這樣子的結果很OK?\n163763\t163923\t王鴻薇議員\n180845\t206807\t比國外的那一個高一般國外都是只公佈前20%沒有最高跟最低在比較因為我剛才講最低如果是負的話或者是一塊錢的話就會說差距就根本不能比所以他根本沒有在最高跟最低在比較是我們跟我們自己比嘛我們30年前16.8倍當時大家就覺得說這個差距已經非常非常的明顯\n207968\t227896\t現在呢差了66.9倍然後我們說沒關係啦我們比美國啦我們比澳洲啦沒有什麼關係我沒有說沒有什麼關係這個是拿一個資料出來給大家參考這不是參考這是我們的說明我們的貧富差距差距如此之大參考什麼\n229076\t253664\t政府政策是屬令制止好雖時間在停下你不用講了啦胡扯不要講啦時間在停聽不下去了來我再請我們財政部今天的次長經濟部次長能卓大會的副主委是副主委\n256414\t262295\t主計長我們有請你回去喔主席我要請主計長回去嗎那主計長請旁邊稍候一下喔你好好我先請財政部在這個數字出來之後我們看到一些學者專家認為臺灣的財富差距之所以這個貧富差距拉大主要是稅制的問題那請問一下次長你同意嗎\n284821\t313138\t我跟委員報告雖然是說這個就是說這個財富這個分配有擴大但是就納稅來講我們現在其實繳稅還是高所得繳稅比如說我們現在中和所得稅占最高的占40%的大概百分之0.86但是他繳的稅他占了大概將近四成五大部分來自於什麼所得呢\n315317\t319138\t這個所得當然各種所得都有新資所得占多少我現在手上沒有這個資料你來這邊沒有資料\n327973\t346945\t這個組織很多人都滾瓜爛熟了我們才七成來自於我們薪資所得我都知道大概七成的來自於薪資所得所以在我們很多學者專家認為今天要讓我們的貧富渣聚能夠拉平有兩種\n348686\t368351\t兩種手段一種就是稅制另外一種手段事實上就是社會福利對不對對這是一般學者在家都會認為有這兩種手段但是社會福利是一種比較屬於我的一個用補助的方式但是我們在稅制上我們不可諱言的\n369011\t390746\t在我們所得稅裡面對資本所得科稅太少而對薪資一般的上班族科稅太重因為我們主要的所得稅的稅源來自於我們的薪資所得所以在這樣的一個很多人會認為說我們在稅制上是不是可以做一些改變比如說有人會提到這個應該要不要複徵證所稅的問題\n395689\t420349\t當然我個人對於因為我們過去每一次去科證所稅其實最後都無疾而終它在技術上或它在政治上的效應太大但是我們能不能夠在整個的綜合所得稅裡面不要這麼完全的仰賴薪資所得這個事上是可以去改善可以檢討的不能嗎?\n422170\t441794\t我跟委員報告我們雖然新生所得是佔了大概七成就所得的佔七成但是他的納稅他佔比大概百分之五十一到百分之五十五左右所以其他的還是基本上還是其他的高所得其他的所得在繳稅稅制事上是可以其實我們確實還是可以去檢討來時間暫停一下我請國發會的副主委\n448956\t451300\t看到這個數字現在全台灣的貧富差距這麼大然後\n458908\t487338\t我們的財富如此的集中那麼救國發會的角色來說有沒有辦法可以再做些什麼政策上的修正跟改變讓我們的貧富差距不會像國外我們去比國外國外這個就是不對啊所以才會造成以前華爾街不就這樣子嗎百分之一的人有百分之九十九的財富我們要像這樣子嗎所以剛剛主計長的說法我完全沒有辦法接受啊\n488098\t501339\t高什麼鬼啊我們要跟美國去學習嗎好時間有限對國發會來說在我們要去解決或者是改善我們家庭這個貧富差距我們還有些什麼手段\n502199\t530455\t跟委員報告,如同委員剛所提到的在主總的這次的調查是財富的調查那平常是我們所得面那所得面如同剛委員所提到的在政府移轉的收入就是社福的政策或是移轉支出的部分租稅的政策去做調整之外剛才所提到的我們的所得結構有盈利所得、資本所得跟薪資所得那事實上在學界的一些討論和政策討論資本利的基本上包含它在交易或是持有的部分的確在稅制上面是可以做討論的\n531394\t549383\t我覺得就是我們現在的稅制真的太完全集中在一些薪資所得好,然後我們看下一頁這個其實就是我們今天這個專題報告的一個重點也就是我們在受僱人員的報酬占在 GDP 的比例因為我們就是認為他偏低\n550043\t570209\t那所以也事實上使得我們的很多的年輕人使得我們很多原來他們是以薪資以受僱者為主的家庭他沒有去觸及一些資本利得他沒有去玩股票他沒有錢去買房而這些族群他要去累積財富他就非常的困難\n571209\t591926\t所以就變成臺灣怎麼樣呢跟國外養錢滾錢錢滾錢很容易但是你用勞力所得去累積你的財富就非常的困難你就會落在後段班而你完全沒有辦法養工所以這就是我們今天的報告裡面為什麼希望能夠做一些改善對於薪資所得者\n592766\t615451\t對受僱者能不能再多照顧一些好來看下一頁其實今天還有一個訊息啊就是我們說一直希望能夠提高工資但是我們大學畢業生每四人就有一個人是領基本工資而且即便他已經做一年囉還是有很多人他的薪水還在領基本工資\n616431\t628404\t所以他如何去累積財富呢這才是說我們今天為什麼要有這樣的一個專題報告而這樣的趨勢就會變成很多年輕人變成什麼呢躺平族\n629397\t656986\t我沒有辦法再努力了我也不敢去結婚我也沒有辦法去生小孩我也不會買房子我甚至連車子都沒有辦法買就像那個什麼就像日本一樣台灣也越來越多會變成這樣所以為什麼今天我要特別提到我肯定主計處時隔30年願意做一個財富調查報告但是我完全不肯定剛才主計長的態度說這不過是參考而已參考什麼\n657546\t678545\t如果只是請你就說看看而已那有什麼好做的呢這叫做什麼使命呢所以我才希望我們各部會能把這個調查跟我們今天的報告做一個連結我剛就在講如果今天我們對於資本利得我們在整個的稅制上沒有辦法去做一些改變\n679807\t680447\t謝謝王鴻薇的質詢,接著我們請黃珊珊委員質詢\n","txt":"主計長我之前就是請問您就是我們要在4月底公布我們的家庭財富那個所得的這個差距那麼我當時呢我還太低估了我說時隔30年會不會超過20倍你說還在計算那時候我就想說一定\n這是我們做的這是你們做的圖片做得很好\n但是這裡面其實充分的說明我們的貧富差距是如此之大而且絕大部分的家庭事實上他們都在金字塔的底層\n我們的平均數家庭財富的平均數是1638萬結果有七成的家庭根本沒有達到所以就可以看到整個的金字塔這個在金字塔上端的財富他們私上真的掌握台灣真的主要的財富我們看一下下一頁\n我們可以看到整個前20%的家庭他們的家庭財富是超過5000萬而後20%的家庭財富是77萬我覺得他們的占比事實上讓大家覺得更為驚訝\n後20%家庭占總體財富連1%都不到然後前20%占台灣總體財富超過6成所以請教一下主計長你那天也講這是你一個使命當你看到這樣的一個數字一個這樣的結果的時候你自己有沒有覺得非常驚訝\n我沒有驚訝因為我們這個數目跟其他國家比較起來是其他國家的那個我甚至講這個表上所謂的後百分之一就是一的那個在德國是負的\n所以主計長我們比爛就是了你覺得這樣子的結果很OK?\n王鴻薇議員\n比國外的那一個高一般國外都是只公佈前20%沒有最高跟最低在比較因為我剛才講最低如果是負的話或者是一塊錢的話就會說差距就根本不能比所以他根本沒有在最高跟最低在比較是我們跟我們自己比嘛我們30年前16.8倍當時大家就覺得說這個差距已經非常非常的明顯\n現在呢差了66.9倍然後我們說沒關係啦我們比美國啦我們比澳洲啦沒有什麼關係我沒有說沒有什麼關係這個是拿一個資料出來給大家參考這不是參考這是我們的說明我們的貧富差距差距如此之大參考什麼\n政府政策是屬令制止好雖時間在停下你不用講了啦胡扯不要講啦時間在停聽不下去了來我再請我們財政部今天的次長經濟部次長能卓大會的副主委是副主委\n主計長我們有請你回去喔主席我要請主計長回去嗎那主計長請旁邊稍候一下喔你好好我先請財政部在這個數字出來之後我們看到一些學者專家認為臺灣的財富差距之所以這個貧富差距拉大主要是稅制的問題那請問一下次長你同意嗎\n我跟委員報告雖然是說這個就是說這個財富這個分配有擴大但是就納稅來講我們現在其實繳稅還是高所得繳稅比如說我們現在中和所得稅占最高的占40%的大概百分之0.86但是他繳的稅他占了大概將近四成五大部分來自於什麼所得呢\n這個所得當然各種所得都有新資所得占多少我現在手上沒有這個資料你來這邊沒有資料\n這個組織很多人都滾瓜爛熟了我們才七成來自於我們薪資所得我都知道大概七成的來自於薪資所得所以在我們很多學者專家認為今天要讓我們的貧富渣聚能夠拉平有兩種\n兩種手段一種就是稅制另外一種手段事實上就是社會福利對不對對這是一般學者在家都會認為有這兩種手段但是社會福利是一種比較屬於我的一個用補助的方式但是我們在稅制上我們不可諱言的\n在我們所得稅裡面對資本所得科稅太少而對薪資一般的上班族科稅太重因為我們主要的所得稅的稅源來自於我們的薪資所得所以在這樣的一個很多人會認為說我們在稅制上是不是可以做一些改變比如說有人會提到這個應該要不要複徵證所稅的問題\n當然我個人對於因為我們過去每一次去科證所稅其實最後都無疾而終它在技術上或它在政治上的效應太大但是我們能不能夠在整個的綜合所得稅裡面不要這麼完全的仰賴薪資所得這個事上是可以去改善可以檢討的不能嗎?\n我跟委員報告我們雖然新生所得是佔了大概七成就所得的佔七成但是他的納稅他佔比大概百分之五十一到百分之五十五左右所以其他的還是基本上還是其他的高所得其他的所得在繳稅稅制事上是可以其實我們確實還是可以去檢討來時間暫停一下我請國發會的副主委\n看到這個數字現在全台灣的貧富差距這麼大然後\n我們的財富如此的集中那麼救國發會的角色來說有沒有辦法可以再做些什麼政策上的修正跟改變讓我們的貧富差距不會像國外我們去比國外國外這個就是不對啊所以才會造成以前華爾街不就這樣子嗎百分之一的人有百分之九十九的財富我們要像這樣子嗎所以剛剛主計長的說法我完全沒有辦法接受啊\n高什麼鬼啊我們要跟美國去學習嗎好時間有限對國發會來說在我們要去解決或者是改善我們家庭這個貧富差距我們還有些什麼手段\n跟委員報告,如同委員剛所提到的在主總的這次的調查是財富的調查那平常是我們所得面那所得面如同剛委員所提到的在政府移轉的收入就是社福的政策或是移轉支出的部分租稅的政策去做調整之外剛才所提到的我們的所得結構有盈利所得、資本所得跟薪資所得那事實上在學界的一些討論和政策討論資本利的基本上包含它在交易或是持有的部分的確在稅制上面是可以做討論的\n我覺得就是我們現在的稅制真的太完全集中在一些薪資所得好,然後我們看下一頁這個其實就是我們今天這個專題報告的一個重點也就是我們在受僱人員的報酬占在 GDP 的比例因為我們就是認為他偏低\n那所以也事實上使得我們的很多的年輕人使得我們很多原來他們是以薪資以受僱者為主的家庭他沒有去觸及一些資本利得他沒有去玩股票他沒有錢去買房而這些族群他要去累積財富他就非常的困難\n所以就變成臺灣怎麼樣呢跟國外養錢滾錢錢滾錢很容易但是你用勞力所得去累積你的財富就非常的困難你就會落在後段班而你完全沒有辦法養工所以這就是我們今天的報告裡面為什麼希望能夠做一些改善對於薪資所得者\n對受僱者能不能再多照顧一些好來看下一頁其實今天還有一個訊息啊就是我們說一直希望能夠提高工資但是我們大學畢業生每四人就有一個人是領基本工資而且即便他已經做一年囉還是有很多人他的薪水還在領基本工資\n所以他如何去累積財富呢這才是說我們今天為什麼要有這樣的一個專題報告而這樣的趨勢就會變成很多年輕人變成什麼呢躺平族\n我沒有辦法再努力了我也不敢去結婚我也沒有辦法去生小孩我也不會買房子我甚至連車子都沒有辦法買就像那個什麼就像日本一樣台灣也越來越多會變成這樣所以為什麼今天我要特別提到我肯定主計處時隔30年願意做一個財富調查報告但是我完全不肯定剛才主計長的態度說這不過是參考而已參考什麼\n如果只是請你就說看看而已那有什麼好做的呢這叫做什麼使命呢所以我才希望我們各部會能把這個調查跟我們今天的報告做一個連結我剛就在講如果今天我們對於資本利得我們在整個的稅制上沒有辦法去做一些改變\n謝謝王鴻薇的質詢,接著我們請黃珊珊委員質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.249 --> 00:20.881\n主計長我之前就是請問您就是我們要在4月底公布我們的家庭財富那個所得的這個差距那麼我當時呢我還太低估了我說時隔30年會不會超過20倍你說還在計算那時候我就想說一定\n\n00:21.421 --> 00:23.222\n這是我們做的這是你們做的圖片做得很好\n\n00:50.083 --> 01:03.290\n但是這裡面其實充分的說明我們的貧富差距是如此之大而且絕大部分的家庭事實上他們都在金字塔的底層\n\n01:04.591 --> 01:24.194\n我們的平均數家庭財富的平均數是1638萬結果有七成的家庭根本沒有達到所以就可以看到整個的金字塔這個在金字塔上端的財富他們私上真的掌握台灣真的主要的財富我們看一下下一頁\n\n01:26.377 --> 01:40.563\n我們可以看到整個前20%的家庭他們的家庭財富是超過5000萬而後20%的家庭財富是77萬我覺得他們的占比事實上讓大家覺得更為驚訝\n\n01:43.384 --> 02:05.909\n後20%家庭占總體財富連1%都不到然後前20%占台灣總體財富超過6成所以請教一下主計長你那天也講這是你一個使命當你看到這樣的一個數字一個這樣的結果的時候你自己有沒有覺得非常驚訝\n\n02:07.890 --> 02:21.526\n我沒有驚訝因為我們這個數目跟其他國家比較起來是其他國家的那個我甚至講這個表上所謂的後百分之一就是一的那個在德國是負的\n\n02:21.986 --> 02:23.868\n所以主計長我們比爛就是了你覺得這樣子的結果很OK?\n\n02:43.763 --> 02:43.923\n王鴻薇議員\n\n03:00.845 --> 03:26.807\n比國外的那一個高一般國外都是只公佈前20%沒有最高跟最低在比較因為我剛才講最低如果是負的話或者是一塊錢的話就會說差距就根本不能比所以他根本沒有在最高跟最低在比較是我們跟我們自己比嘛我們30年前16.8倍當時大家就覺得說這個差距已經非常非常的明顯\n\n03:27.968 --> 03:47.896\n現在呢差了66.9倍然後我們說沒關係啦我們比美國啦我們比澳洲啦沒有什麼關係我沒有說沒有什麼關係這個是拿一個資料出來給大家參考這不是參考這是我們的說明我們的貧富差距差距如此之大參考什麼\n\n03:49.076 --> 04:13.664\n政府政策是屬令制止好雖時間在停下你不用講了啦胡扯不要講啦時間在停聽不下去了來我再請我們財政部今天的次長經濟部次長能卓大會的副主委是副主委\n\n04:16.414 --> 04:22.295\n主計長我們有請你回去喔主席我要請主計長回去嗎那主計長請旁邊稍候一下喔你好好我先請財政部在這個數字出來之後我們看到一些學者專家認為臺灣的財富差距之所以這個貧富差距拉大主要是稅制的問題那請問一下次長你同意嗎\n\n04:44.821 --> 05:13.138\n我跟委員報告雖然是說這個就是說這個財富這個分配有擴大但是就納稅來講我們現在其實繳稅還是高所得繳稅比如說我們現在中和所得稅占最高的占40%的大概百分之0.86但是他繳的稅他占了大概將近四成五大部分來自於什麼所得呢\n\n05:15.317 --> 05:19.138\n這個所得當然各種所得都有新資所得占多少我現在手上沒有這個資料你來這邊沒有資料\n\n05:27.973 --> 05:46.945\n這個組織很多人都滾瓜爛熟了我們才七成來自於我們薪資所得我都知道大概七成的來自於薪資所得所以在我們很多學者專家認為今天要讓我們的貧富渣聚能夠拉平有兩種\n\n05:48.686 --> 06:08.351\n兩種手段一種就是稅制另外一種手段事實上就是社會福利對不對對這是一般學者在家都會認為有這兩種手段但是社會福利是一種比較屬於我的一個用補助的方式但是我們在稅制上我們不可諱言的\n\n06:09.011 --> 06:30.746\n在我們所得稅裡面對資本所得科稅太少而對薪資一般的上班族科稅太重因為我們主要的所得稅的稅源來自於我們的薪資所得所以在這樣的一個很多人會認為說我們在稅制上是不是可以做一些改變比如說有人會提到這個應該要不要複徵證所稅的問題\n\n06:35.689 --> 07:00.349\n當然我個人對於因為我們過去每一次去科證所稅其實最後都無疾而終它在技術上或它在政治上的效應太大但是我們能不能夠在整個的綜合所得稅裡面不要這麼完全的仰賴薪資所得這個事上是可以去改善可以檢討的不能嗎?\n\n07:02.170 --> 07:21.794\n我跟委員報告我們雖然新生所得是佔了大概七成就所得的佔七成但是他的納稅他佔比大概百分之五十一到百分之五十五左右所以其他的還是基本上還是其他的高所得其他的所得在繳稅稅制事上是可以其實我們確實還是可以去檢討來時間暫停一下我請國發會的副主委\n\n07:28.956 --> 07:31.300\n看到這個數字現在全台灣的貧富差距這麼大然後\n\n07:38.908 --> 08:07.338\n我們的財富如此的集中那麼救國發會的角色來說有沒有辦法可以再做些什麼政策上的修正跟改變讓我們的貧富差距不會像國外我們去比國外國外這個就是不對啊所以才會造成以前華爾街不就這樣子嗎百分之一的人有百分之九十九的財富我們要像這樣子嗎所以剛剛主計長的說法我完全沒有辦法接受啊\n\n08:08.098 --> 08:21.339\n高什麼鬼啊我們要跟美國去學習嗎好時間有限對國發會來說在我們要去解決或者是改善我們家庭這個貧富差距我們還有些什麼手段\n\n08:22.199 --> 08:50.455\n跟委員報告,如同委員剛所提到的在主總的這次的調查是財富的調查那平常是我們所得面那所得面如同剛委員所提到的在政府移轉的收入就是社福的政策或是移轉支出的部分租稅的政策去做調整之外剛才所提到的我們的所得結構有盈利所得、資本所得跟薪資所得那事實上在學界的一些討論和政策討論資本利的基本上包含它在交易或是持有的部分的確在稅制上面是可以做討論的\n\n08:51.394 --> 09:09.383\n我覺得就是我們現在的稅制真的太完全集中在一些薪資所得好,然後我們看下一頁這個其實就是我們今天這個專題報告的一個重點也就是我們在受僱人員的報酬占在GDP的比例因為我們就是認為他偏低\n\n09:10.043 --> 09:30.209\n那所以也事實上使得我們的很多的年輕人使得我們很多原來他們是以薪資以受僱者為主的家庭他沒有去觸及一些資本利得他沒有去玩股票他沒有錢去買房而這些族群他要去累積財富他就非常的困難\n\n09:31.209 --> 09:51.926\n所以就變成臺灣怎麼樣呢跟國外養錢滾錢錢滾錢很容易但是你用勞力所得去累積你的財富就非常的困難你就會落在後段班而你完全沒有辦法養工所以這就是我們今天的報告裡面為什麼希望能夠做一些改善對於薪資所得者\n\n09:52.766 --> 10:15.451\n對受僱者能不能再多照顧一些好來看下一頁其實今天還有一個訊息啊就是我們說一直希望能夠提高工資但是我們大學畢業生每四人就有一個人是領基本工資而且即便他已經做一年囉還是有很多人他的薪水還在領基本工資\n\n10:16.431 --> 10:28.404\n所以他如何去累積財富呢這才是說我們今天為什麼要有這樣的一個專題報告而這樣的趨勢就會變成很多年輕人變成什麼呢躺平族\n\n10:29.397 --> 10:56.986\n我沒有辦法再努力了我也不敢去結婚我也沒有辦法去生小孩我也不會買房子我甚至連車子都沒有辦法買就像那個什麼就像日本一樣台灣也越來越多會變成這樣所以為什麼今天我要特別提到我肯定主計處時隔30年願意做一個財富調查報告但是我完全不肯定剛才主計長的態度說這不過是參考而已參考什麼\n\n10:57.546 --> 11:18.545\n如果只是請你就說看看而已那有什麼好做的呢這叫做什麼使命呢所以我才希望我們各部會能把這個調查跟我們今天的報告做一個連結我剛就在講如果今天我們對於資本利得我們在整個的稅制上沒有辦法去做一些改變\n\n11:19.807 --> 11:20.447\n謝謝王鴻薇的質詢,接著我們請黃珊珊委員質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.249,"end":20.881,"text":"主計長我之前就是請問您就是我們要在4月底公布我們的家庭財富那個所得的這個差距那麼我當時呢我還太低估了我說時隔30年會不會超過20倍你說還在計算那時候我就想說一定"},{"start":21.421,"end":23.222,"text":"這是我們做的這是你們做的圖片做得很好"},{"start":50.083,"end":63.29,"text":"但是這裡面其實充分的說明我們的貧富差距是如此之大而且絕大部分的家庭事實上他們都在金字塔的底層"},{"start":64.591,"end":84.194,"text":"我們的平均數家庭財富的平均數是1638萬結果有七成的家庭根本沒有達到所以就可以看到整個的金字塔這個在金字塔上端的財富他們私上真的掌握台灣真的主要的財富我們看一下下一頁"},{"start":86.377,"end":100.563,"text":"我們可以看到整個前20%的家庭他們的家庭財富是超過5000萬而後20%的家庭財富是77萬我覺得他們的占比事實上讓大家覺得更為驚訝"},{"start":103.384,"end":125.909,"text":"後20%家庭占總體財富連1%都不到然後前20%占台灣總體財富超過6成所以請教一下主計長你那天也講這是你一個使命當你看到這樣的一個數字一個這樣的結果的時候你自己有沒有覺得非常驚訝"},{"start":127.89,"end":141.526,"text":"我沒有驚訝因為我們這個數目跟其他國家比較起來是其他國家的那個我甚至講這個表上所謂的後百分之一就是一的那個在德國是負的"},{"start":141.986,"end":143.868,"text":"所以主計長我們比爛就是了你覺得這樣子的結果很OK?"},{"start":163.763,"end":163.923,"text":"王鴻薇議員"},{"start":180.845,"end":206.807,"text":"比國外的那一個高一般國外都是只公佈前20%沒有最高跟最低在比較因為我剛才講最低如果是負的話或者是一塊錢的話就會說差距就根本不能比所以他根本沒有在最高跟最低在比較是我們跟我們自己比嘛我們30年前16.8倍當時大家就覺得說這個差距已經非常非常的明顯"},{"start":207.968,"end":227.896,"text":"現在呢差了66.9倍然後我們說沒關係啦我們比美國啦我們比澳洲啦沒有什麼關係我沒有說沒有什麼關係這個是拿一個資料出來給大家參考這不是參考這是我們的說明我們的貧富差距差距如此之大參考什麼"},{"start":229.076,"end":253.664,"text":"政府政策是屬令制止好雖時間在停下你不用講了啦胡扯不要講啦時間在停聽不下去了來我再請我們財政部今天的次長經濟部次長能卓大會的副主委是副主委"},{"start":256.414,"end":262.295,"text":"主計長我們有請你回去喔主席我要請主計長回去嗎那主計長請旁邊稍候一下喔你好好我先請財政部在這個數字出來之後我們看到一些學者專家認為臺灣的財富差距之所以這個貧富差距拉大主要是稅制的問題那請問一下次長你同意嗎"},{"start":284.821,"end":313.138,"text":"我跟委員報告雖然是說這個就是說這個財富這個分配有擴大但是就納稅來講我們現在其實繳稅還是高所得繳稅比如說我們現在中和所得稅占最高的占40%的大概百分之0.86但是他繳的稅他占了大概將近四成五大部分來自於什麼所得呢"},{"start":315.317,"end":319.138,"text":"這個所得當然各種所得都有新資所得占多少我現在手上沒有這個資料你來這邊沒有資料"},{"start":327.973,"end":346.945,"text":"這個組織很多人都滾瓜爛熟了我們才七成來自於我們薪資所得我都知道大概七成的來自於薪資所得所以在我們很多學者專家認為今天要讓我們的貧富渣聚能夠拉平有兩種"},{"start":348.686,"end":368.351,"text":"兩種手段一種就是稅制另外一種手段事實上就是社會福利對不對對這是一般學者在家都會認為有這兩種手段但是社會福利是一種比較屬於我的一個用補助的方式但是我們在稅制上我們不可諱言的"},{"start":369.011,"end":390.746,"text":"在我們所得稅裡面對資本所得科稅太少而對薪資一般的上班族科稅太重因為我們主要的所得稅的稅源來自於我們的薪資所得所以在這樣的一個很多人會認為說我們在稅制上是不是可以做一些改變比如說有人會提到這個應該要不要複徵證所稅的問題"},{"start":395.689,"end":420.349,"text":"當然我個人對於因為我們過去每一次去科證所稅其實最後都無疾而終它在技術上或它在政治上的效應太大但是我們能不能夠在整個的綜合所得稅裡面不要這麼完全的仰賴薪資所得這個事上是可以去改善可以檢討的不能嗎?"},{"start":422.17,"end":441.794,"text":"我跟委員報告我們雖然新生所得是佔了大概七成就所得的佔七成但是他的納稅他佔比大概百分之五十一到百分之五十五左右所以其他的還是基本上還是其他的高所得其他的所得在繳稅稅制事上是可以其實我們確實還是可以去檢討來時間暫停一下我請國發會的副主委"},{"start":448.956,"end":451.3,"text":"看到這個數字現在全台灣的貧富差距這麼大然後"},{"start":458.908,"end":487.338,"text":"我們的財富如此的集中那麼救國發會的角色來說有沒有辦法可以再做些什麼政策上的修正跟改變讓我們的貧富差距不會像國外我們去比國外國外這個就是不對啊所以才會造成以前華爾街不就這樣子嗎百分之一的人有百分之九十九的財富我們要像這樣子嗎所以剛剛主計長的說法我完全沒有辦法接受啊"},{"start":488.098,"end":501.339,"text":"高什麼鬼啊我們要跟美國去學習嗎好時間有限對國發會來說在我們要去解決或者是改善我們家庭這個貧富差距我們還有些什麼手段"},{"start":502.199,"end":530.455,"text":"跟委員報告,如同委員剛所提到的在主總的這次的調查是財富的調查那平常是我們所得面那所得面如同剛委員所提到的在政府移轉的收入就是社福的政策或是移轉支出的部分租稅的政策去做調整之外剛才所提到的我們的所得結構有盈利所得、資本所得跟薪資所得那事實上在學界的一些討論和政策討論資本利的基本上包含它在交易或是持有的部分的確在稅制上面是可以做討論的"},{"start":531.394,"end":549.383,"text":"我覺得就是我們現在的稅制真的太完全集中在一些薪資所得好,然後我們看下一頁這個其實就是我們今天這個專題報告的一個重點也就是我們在受僱人員的報酬占在 GDP 的比例因為我們就是認為他偏低"},{"start":550.043,"end":570.209,"text":"那所以也事實上使得我們的很多的年輕人使得我們很多原來他們是以薪資以受僱者為主的家庭他沒有去觸及一些資本利得他沒有去玩股票他沒有錢去買房而這些族群他要去累積財富他就非常的困難"},{"start":571.209,"end":591.926,"text":"所以就變成臺灣怎麼樣呢跟國外養錢滾錢錢滾錢很容易但是你用勞力所得去累積你的財富就非常的困難你就會落在後段班而你完全沒有辦法養工所以這就是我們今天的報告裡面為什麼希望能夠做一些改善對於薪資所得者"},{"start":592.766,"end":615.451,"text":"對受僱者能不能再多照顧一些好來看下一頁其實今天還有一個訊息啊就是我們說一直希望能夠提高工資但是我們大學畢業生每四人就有一個人是領基本工資而且即便他已經做一年囉還是有很多人他的薪水還在領基本工資"},{"start":616.431,"end":628.404,"text":"所以他如何去累積財富呢這才是說我們今天為什麼要有這樣的一個專題報告而這樣的趨勢就會變成很多年輕人變成什麼呢躺平族"},{"start":629.397,"end":656.986,"text":"我沒有辦法再努力了我也不敢去結婚我也沒有辦法去生小孩我也不會買房子我甚至連車子都沒有辦法買就像那個什麼就像日本一樣台灣也越來越多會變成這樣所以為什麼今天我要特別提到我肯定主計處時隔30年願意做一個財富調查報告但是我完全不肯定剛才主計長的態度說這不過是參考而已參考什麼"},{"start":657.546,"end":678.545,"text":"如果只是請你就說看看而已那有什麼好做的呢這叫做什麼使命呢所以我才希望我們各部會能把這個調查跟我們今天的報告做一個連結我剛就在講如果今天我們對於資本利得我們在整個的稅制上沒有辦法去做一些改變"},{"start":679.807,"end":680.447,"text":"謝謝王鴻薇的質詢,接著我們請黃珊珊委員質詢"}]}}}}