{"id":152006,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152006","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6f015fe8e6787db13e231e3d3c9e417c0cbbe991ada1931c55be169921a0a7170be9ff9e72e124835ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"09:28:20 - 09:42:31","影片長度":"00:14:11","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部列席就「『偏遠地區學校教育發展條例』施行迄今之成效及檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查(一)委員柯志恩等18人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案」案。(二)委員魯明哲等24人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第十六條條文修正草案」案。(三)委員馬文君等17人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第十六條及第十九條條文修正草案」案。(四)委員盧縣一等20人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條、第十二條及第二十一條條文修正草案」案。\n(僅進行詢答)【4月29日及5月2日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-02","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-10"},"duration":851,"end_time":"2024-05-02T09:42:31+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-02T09:28:20+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":115,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（9時28分）主席，謝謝。麻煩請潘文忠部長。"],["主席：好，請潘部長。"],["潘部長文忠：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：好。部長，在討論今天的專案報告之前，本席先請教，你們4月30號的時候有公布國小及國中學生獎懲準則，這個是有上簽到您這邊？"],["潘部長文忠：有，這是一個正式的國教法授權子法的發布。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，很多人就看到裡面有一些狀況，是不是修法過度傾向於學權，沒有考慮教師的教學專業？其中裡面有特別提到，要求學生違反服裝儀容規定，只能正向管教、口頭糾正，不得懲處，很多人就講說是不是變相地要廢除制服？以前2016年民進黨政府上任之後，就已經有提出變相廢止制服，但那還僅限於高中，現在連國小、國中都要來做這樣的事情。"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告……"],["洪委員孟楷：我先請教。"],["潘部長文忠：好。"],["洪委員孟楷：如果違反服裝儀容的學生，他就是不穿制服，怎麼辦？老師要怎麼做？老師的現場教學專業沒有辦法管教，那要怎麼做？"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告，這可能誤解了，我們在109年公布有關……"],["洪委員孟楷：如果說誤解的話，那是外界大家都誤解了，因為你們裡面寫的就是這樣。"],["潘部長文忠：沒有，教育部有正式地澄清，這個不是這一次修的準則，是在109年，當時外界也很關心服裝儀容，所以當時我們說學校一定要成立服裝儀容委員會，邀請學校的老師、家長、學生代表共同參與，透過這樣的程序去律定我們這個學校服裝儀容的相關規範，就是所謂的公約，其實當時在這個公約裡面也有提到，學生應該遵循這個規範，如果學生有違反，應該給予合比例、適當地的管教。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，你講的這些都是歷史，但是現在就是4月30號針對國小、國中的獎懲準則，你又新增……"],["潘部長文忠：不是，委員，4月30日……"],["洪委員孟楷：又告訴大家如果違反服裝儀容的話，只能正向管教、口頭糾正，那我們就講，其實穿制服最重要的理由是什麼？15歲以下的國小、國中學童穿制服，最主要的意義是：第一，它可以避免比較，減少貧富差距的展現。再來，它有可能展現忠誠、展現榮耀，是一個群體的概念。你沒看到昨天、前天的報導，臺灣的貧富差距在民進黨政府執政的現狀下可以高達66.9倍！"],["潘部長文忠：委員，我想現況……"],["洪委員孟楷：我們現在希望在國小、國中的學童穿制服，不要去比較，未來如果你這樣放寬了，會不會有人高興就穿名牌；有人就沒有辦法每天換好的衣服。"],["潘部長文忠：我剛才跟委員報告一個關鍵，這個學校的服裝儀容是由這個學校的服裝儀容委員會決定，這個決定包含家長，如果我們再做一個全國一致性的規範，大概不合時宜。委員一定知道，之前天冷，有學生加一件不是學校的外套，學生就被學校處分……"],["洪委員孟楷：我只是想要來……"],["潘部長文忠：這個不合理吧！"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，我只是想要請教……"],["潘部長文忠：只是為了保暖耶！老師穿得緊緊的，學生加了一件外套就被處罰。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，本席在問你A，你不要答B。"],["潘部長文忠：沒有，我跟委員……"],["洪委員孟楷：我現在只想問的是，我現在只想確認的是……"],["潘部長文忠：沒有廢止服裝。"],["洪委員孟楷：我們有沒有要廢止制服？"],["潘部長文忠：沒有。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，沒有，很好！部長，雖然你只剩不到20天就要離開，但你的宣示就代表教育部的一個態度。"],["潘部長文忠：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有廢止制服，可是……"],["潘部長文忠：但是每個學校的規定，我們要尊重，好不好？跟委員報告。每個學校經過服裝儀容委員會討論出來，這個學校要2天穿制服，要3天穿便服……"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，本席今天心平氣和地來這邊跟你就教……"],["潘部長文忠：沒有啦！因為外界誤解，委員那麼清楚，應該不會誤解，我跟委員報告的是這個。"],["洪委員孟楷：就是因為你們提出來之後讓外界誤解，是誰造成的？不要本末倒置嘛。"],["潘部長文忠：沒有本末倒置。"],["洪委員孟楷：你本來就本末倒置，如果外界沒有誤解的話，不會每一次在你們提出來的時候外界都有那麼多疑慮，今天本席利用國會質詢的時間，幫你問清楚，我代表的是所有的家長，我代表的是關心這個議題的家長、學生以及學校教職人員，每一次都是你們沒有先溝通，沒有讓第一線的教職人員知道，這是大家的反映！今天不是在比大小聲，今天要的是講清楚，不要每一次遇到什麼事情時都在一直辯解，如果你有時間在這裡花時間辯解的話，為什麼之前公布的時候不先說明清楚，先溝通清楚？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，這個本來就說明過。"],["洪委員孟楷：這是誰的問題？這是誰的問題？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，今天只因為一個團體說了一件事情，不代表沒有溝通吧？"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，確認就好，好不好？"],["潘部長文忠：是，OK。"],["洪委員孟楷：再講一次，教育部有沒有要廢除制服？"],["潘部長文忠：沒有。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，謝謝。來，部長，我們進入到今天比較實質的問題，有幾個部分，偏鄉地區教育發展條例現在也已經推出6年了，可是之前有講過，去年其實國教署就已經有提出五項的修法期許，也希望113學年度可以執行，目前進度為何？"],["潘部長文忠：五項？應該是一個面向，不是修法的五個面向。"],["洪委員孟楷：修法的期許，也要提出改善的措施，希望能夠改善，而且本來講3年檢討1次，但是因為疫情沒有檢討，對不對？之前推出6年，3年檢討1次，但沒有檢討。現在偏鄉跟少子化的問題越來越嚴重，所以我們在想，現在偏鄉教育資源的問題是不是更加嚴重了？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，現在是進入第二期的檢討階段，第一期有檢討，包含分級跟認定標準，因為大家反映了，所以從原來的9項變成15項的評估指標，學校也有列增，這是第一期主要檢討的……"],["洪委員孟楷：來，你們有沒有看到媒體報導，有八成的偏鄉教師認為行政工作影響到教學？目前的行政負擔，讓偏鄉教師想要離職，這是不是也是偏鄉老師一直招不到人的主要原因？"],["潘部長文忠：委員所提的部分也是這一次在報告裡面談的一個很重要的核心，原因就是因為人力不多，但是……"],["洪委員孟楷：那你們有沒有提出什麼具體的解套方式來協助？"],["潘部長文忠：現在就是比較希望，因為每個學校雖然小，但是要做的事情都幾乎類似，我們也覺得從教育部之前推班班有冷氣、生生用平板，其實都用整體，就是一組去服務其他的學校，不用每個學校都做同樣的採購、設計，這個其實對學校來講負擔非常的重，教育部認為這個模式後續應該跟縣市政府，對於區域應該有資源的中心，我們來增加人力給……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以區域資源為中心，那會以多大的區域為概念？本席特別看了一下偏鄉的設置，本席的選區裡面就有兩、三個偏鄉學校，包括石門、八里，如果你要以區域為概念，來減輕行政負擔的話，是以縣市還是以什麼樣的區域劃分？"],["潘部長文忠：應該不會大到縣啦！太大了……"],["洪委員孟楷：是，那要怎麼劃分？"],["潘部長文忠：以新北來講，我初步的構想，因為這個當然一定要跟縣市討論一下，我覺得如果以新北為例，一個……"],["洪委員孟楷：以立委選區劃分、縣市議員選區劃分，還是以學區劃分？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，我們這一次有幾個不同的模式，不好意思，我都覺得成功的經驗應該往下擴展，像平板的採購，它就更大區域；但是像中央廚房的部分，它就小區域，現在做共餐就是這樣。"],["洪委員孟楷：對，所以本席現在在問的是，你們現在方向是要大區域分、小區域分，還是幾個學校劃一區？"],["潘部長文忠：我覺得應該是比較用行政區的概念，比如說新北有29個……"],["洪委員孟楷：29個行政區。"],["潘部長文忠：29個我們教育系統的區域啦！因為像板橋就一區而已，板土區啦！"],["洪委員孟楷：但板橋沒有偏鄉學校啊！"],["潘部長文忠：你那個大概涵蓋4、5個鄉鎮喔！"],["洪委員孟楷：是，板橋沒有偏鄉學校嘛！板橋都是都會區。"],["潘部長文忠：不是，我是舉例，我是跟委員舉例它這樣的概念……"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，是不是到現在還沒有一個點，所以說你現在只能一直在鬼打牆？"],["潘部長文忠：沒有，就是這個方向。"],["洪委員孟楷：那你現在的方向是什麼？我們聽半天，我相信媒體朋友或是我們那麼有邏輯的人也聽不懂，我現在只請教你說你們現在會以怎麼樣去……我認同，我認同這個方向，就是偏鄉學校不要一校去辦這種庶務性的業務，而是可能幾個學校一起辦一次庶務性業務，然後給各幾個學校，我現在在問的是，你會幾個學校一起做？就拿我們石門北海岸為例，是北海岸劃一區，金山、萬里、石門、三芝納進來，4個鄉鎮就可以有1個主要來辦，然後4個鄉鎮來含括、來使用，還是說要怎麼分？因為這很直接啊！你們訂出來之後才能幫忙我們偏鄉的行政……"],["潘部長文忠：沒有，不是啦！委員，就是這個概念，但是不是由教育部決定。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，什麼時候會出來？"],["潘部長文忠：現在就在整理這個，跟縣市做討論。"],["洪委員孟楷：什麼時候會出來？"],["潘部長文忠：520之前可能沒辦法啦！因為這個真的要跟他們討論一下。"],["洪委員孟楷：沒關係，因為你既然也已經拖了8年了，我也不求520之前出來啦！"],["潘部長文忠：沒有、沒有，委員，這是這一次座談裡面，大家提出的一個很重要的建議。"],["洪委員孟楷：什麼時候會出來？"],["潘部長文忠：7月30日。"],["洪委員孟楷：7月30日？"],["潘部長文忠：就是新學年度開始前嘛！"],["洪委員孟楷：非常好，就是在下個學年度，等於是113年學年度開始的時候會出來，就偏鄉的這個行政。","再來，有一個叫做久任獎金，今天第6頁也特別提到，本席看了一下，我也很鼓勵，我覺得重賞之下有勇夫，不然這些偏鄉學校的老師，他很有熱忱，然後他去，那也很辛苦。結果我看了一下，服務8年才發第一次久任獎金，並且在114年，等於2025年，兩年後才要發，哇！等了8年，終於可以拿到一筆久任獎金，我覺得這是榮譽啊！我很好奇，到底久任獎金有多少錢？結果服務在偏鄉滿8年，久任獎金兩年後第一次發放，一個人多少錢？"],["潘部長文忠：那個有分3個類型……"],["洪委員孟楷：對，一個人多少錢？"],["潘部長文忠：數字的部分，我再請署長跟您報告，3個數字不一樣。"],["洪委員孟楷：7萬塊！在偏鄉服務了8年，久任獎金7萬塊，而且要等2025年，還要兩年後才能拿到，所以讓外界覺得久任獎金原來不是久任獎金，是久等獎金啦！苦讀十年，人家是偏鄉服務8年，7萬塊，平均一個月800塊不到，你覺得這有沒有檢討的必要？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，這部分我想因為還沒開始發，我想發之前我們再做個討論……"],["洪委員孟楷：就是還沒有開始發，因為很多偏鄉的老師就跟我們講，到底教育部是在……比較不好意思啦！老師給我的原文是說：「教育部是在乞捨我們還是在打發我們？」"],["潘部長文忠：委員，沒有這個意思啦！"],["洪委員孟楷：說久任獎金要服務滿8年，結果給我7萬塊，而且7萬塊不是現在拿，是2025年，等到第一批服務了8年才能拿，能不能有變通的作法？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，這個時程……"],["洪委員孟楷：我提一下，譬如說像有一些企業，我也知道現在發這個獎金的意義是希望他可以服務滿8年嘛！那有些企業是譬如說假設他年終抽獎摸到股票，可以領股票，但是兩年內不得離職，就是有這樣子，可是你可以先拿。一樣道理，如果現在已經有偏鄉的老師，確實他已經有服務的熱忱，他也覺得已經被你們綁定了，那久任獎金能不能先發予？但是如果真的服務不到8年期滿的時候，必須要追繳回一定比例。而且我說實在的，不是70萬、不是700萬，是7萬塊，一個月平均不到800塊。部長，能不能檢討？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，這個發放的方式跟額度，我想因為當時公布實施是第一次，確實可以在這樣的過程當中，我們再做一個滾動的檢討。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是要等這一次兩年後2025發放了，然後您也已經閒雲野鶴了兩年，到時候說不定是你要幫他們在民間來發聲。"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，我想照顧偏鄉老師的面向，久任獎金是一個……"],["洪委員孟楷：我們都希望能夠照顧偏鄉老師。"],["潘部長文忠：大量的修繕宿舍也是重點。"],["洪委員孟楷：召委已經站起來，但是本席很嚴正的告訴部長，你剛剛真的浪費我3、4分鐘，我說實在話，我都很希望各位同仁來我辦公室，我們一定都是以禮相待，我也很希望能夠跟大家討論，在這個殿堂上面，我不是要壓過你，你不是要壓過我，我們是要平等的互相來質詢，但是把委員的問題聽清楚，直接明瞭的回答問題，我覺得這比較重要。我沒有比較大，但是重點是我今天準備的所有資料都是有所本，我不會刻意找碴，我跟你也沒有私人恩怨。偏鄉的問題真的很重要，尤其是現在還有「代理救偏鄉」，甚至被很多代理老師都覺得這根本就是已經是一個笑話，這些問題我們持續討論。部長要離開，我祝福，但我更希望我們教育的同仁大家一起努力，我們讓偏鄉能夠得到好的教育品質，謝謝。"],["潘部長文忠：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員。"],["主席（葛委員如鈞代）：請柯志恩召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":378,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-10","speakers":["柯志恩","盧縣一","萬美玲","洪孟楷","葛如鈞","吳沛憶","林宜瑾","陳培瑜","葉元之","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","羅廷瑋","張雅琳","吳春城","林倩綺","徐富癸","何欣純","黃仁","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","鍾佳濱","范雲","邱志偉","黃珊珊","劉建國"],"page_start":311,"meetingDate":["2024-05-02"],"gazette_id":"1133901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133901_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請教育部列席就「『偏遠地區學校教育發展條例』施行迄今之成效及檢討」進行專題報\n告，並備質詢；二、審查(一)委員柯志恩等18人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修\n正草案」案、(二)委員魯明哲等24人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第十六條條文修正草案」\n案、( 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615.901, \"score\": 0.717}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 615.901, \"end\": 615.921, \"score\": 0.014}]}, {\"start\": 616.901, \"end\": 640.764, \"text\": \"九任獎金服務八年才發第一次九任獎金並且在一一四年等於二零二五年兩年後才要發任哇等了八年終於可以拿到一筆九任獎金我覺得這是榮譽啊那我很好奇說到底九任獎金有多少錢結果我服務在偏鄉滿八年九任獎金第一次發放兩年後發放多少錢一個人\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"九\", \"start\": 616.901, \"end\": 617.181, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 617.181, \"end\": 617.662, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"獎\"}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 617.662, \"end\": 617.942, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"服\", \"start\": 617.942, \"end\": 618.323, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"八\", \"start\": 618.323, \"end\": 618.583, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 618.583, \"end\": 619.063, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 619.063, \"end\": 619.464, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 619.464, \"end\": 619.584, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 619.584, \"end\": 619.664, 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{\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 837.678, \"end\": 838.159, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 838.159, \"end\": 838.419, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 838.419, \"end\": 840.08, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 840.08, \"end\": 840.36, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 840.36, \"end\": 841.16, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"離\"}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 841.16, \"end\": 841.52, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"祝\", \"start\": 841.52, \"end\": 841.801, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"福\", \"start\": 841.801, \"end\": 842.301, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 842.301, \"end\": 842.441, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 842.441, \"end\": 842.601, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 842.601, \"end\": 842.781, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 842.781, \"end\": 842.941, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 842.941, \"end\": 843.081, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 843.081, \"end\": 843.281, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 843.281, \"end\": 843.461, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 843.461, \"end\": 843.562, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 843.562, \"end\": 843.662, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 843.662, \"end\": 843.822, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"仁\", \"start\": 843.822, \"end\": 844.022, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 844.022, \"end\": 844.162, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 844.162, \"end\": 844.322, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 844.322, \"end\": 844.422, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 844.422, \"end\": 844.582, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"努\", \"start\": 844.582, \"end\": 844.762, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 844.762, \"end\": 845.022, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 845.022, \"end\": 845.663, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"偏\", \"start\": 845.663, \"end\": 846.163, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"鄉\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 846.163, \"end\": 846.523, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 846.523, \"end\": 846.703, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 846.703, \"end\": 846.883, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 846.883, \"end\": 847.143, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 847.143, \"end\": 847.344, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 847.344, \"end\": 847.484, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 847.484, \"end\": 847.584, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"品\", \"start\": 847.584, \"end\": 847.784, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 847.784, \"end\": 851.066, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 851.066, \"end\": 851.186, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"孟\", \"start\": 851.186, \"end\": 851.306, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"楷\", \"start\": 851.306, \"end\": 851.426, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 851.426, \"end\": 851.446, \"score\": 0.071}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:12,648\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會\n\n2\n00:00:16,310 --> 00:00:43,953\n委員好部長在今天的這個專案報告之前本席先請教我們4月30號的時候有公佈國小及國中學生獎程準則這是有上線到您這邊有啊這個是一個正式那個國教法的不國教法的授權執法的發佈好那其中很多人就看到就是說裡面有一些狀況是不是修法的過度傾向於學權沒有考慮教師的教學專業\n\n3\n00:00:45,894 --> 00:01:02,964\n其中裡面有特別提到是說要求學生違反服裝遺容規定只能正向管教口頭糾正不得懲處那很多人就講說是不是變相的要廢除制服啊以前2016年民進黨政府上任之後就已經有提出這個\n\n4\n00:01:04,285 --> 00:01:23,881\n變相廢紙制服但那還僅限於說高中但現在連國小、國中都要來做這樣的事情來我先請教如果說違反服裝儀容的學生他就是不穿制服怎麼辦老師要怎麼做老師的現場教學專業他沒有辦法沒有辦法管教那要怎麼做\n\n5\n00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:54,347\n我跟你們報告,這可能誤解了啦我們在109年就是公布...如果誤解的話那是外界大家都誤解啦所以我裡面寫的就是這樣教育部有正式的澄清啦這個不是這一次修準則是在109年當時服裝儀容外界也很關心所以當時我們說學校一定要成立服裝儀容委員會邀請當然學校的老師、家長、學生代表來共同參與透過這樣的程序去律定我們這個學校服裝儀容的相關規範就是所謂的公約啦\n\n6\n00:01:55,347 --> 00:02:21,957\n公約其實在當時裡面也提到如果學生應該依照這個方式來做遵循如果學生有違反那麼應該給予合比例適當的這方面的管教部長你講的都是歷史但是現在就4月30號說你針對國小國中的獎懲準則你又新增又告訴大家是說如果違反服裝儀容的話只能正向管教口頭糾正那我們就講是說其實穿制服最重要的理由是什麼\n\n7\n00:02:22,897 --> 00:02:38,097\n國小國中在這個15歲以下的學童穿制服最主要意義是我們不希望他第一他可以避免比較減少貧富差距的展現再來他有可能展現忠誠展現榮耀一個群體的概念嘛\n\n8\n00:02:38,678 --> 00:03:02,097\n那現在昨天前天沒有看到說現在連貧富在台灣的現狀下民進黨政府執政之下貧富差距可以高達66.9%欸66.9%我想現況那我們現在希望是說在國小國中的學童他穿制服不要去比較那未來如果說你這樣放寬了會不會有人我高興穿名牌那有人我就沒有辦法每天換好衣服我剛才跟我們報告一個很關鍵\n\n9\n00:03:03,398 --> 00:03:20,979\n這個學校的服裝衣容是由這個學校的服裝衣容委員會決定這個決定包含家長如果全國我們再做一個一致性的規範大概不合時宜啦那我已經知道齁之前天能啊學生加一個不是學校的外套就被學校學生處分了這個不合理嘛\n\n10\n00:03:23,021 --> 00:03:49,215\n只是為了保暖欸老師穿得緊緊的學生壓力鍵外套被處罰本席在問你A你不要答B我現在只想問的是我現在只想要確認的是我們有沒有要廢紙制服沒有沒有很好部長雖然你只剩不到20天就要離開喔但你的宣示就代表是教育部的一個態度是沒有廢紙制服但是每個學校的規定我們要尊重好不好跟委員報告\n\n11\n00:03:50,694 --> 00:04:07,252\n每個學校因為他經過服裝委員會討論出來這個學校要兩天穿制服要三天穿便服部長本席今天心平氣和來這邊跟你就教因為外界誤解委員那麼清楚應該不會誤解就是因為你們提出來之後讓外界誤解\n\n12\n00:04:08,763 --> 00:04:34,670\n是誰造成的?不要本末倒置嘛!沒有本末倒置啦!你本來就本末倒置,如果說沒有外界誤解的話,不會每一次你們再提出來的時候都有外界那麼多疑慮今天本席利用國會職權時間幫你問清楚我代表的是所有家長,我代表的是關心這個議題的家長、學生以及學校教職人員每一次都是你們沒有先溝通,沒有讓第一線教職人員知道大家的反應\n\n13\n00:04:36,544 --> 00:05:04,721\n今天不是在比大小聲今天要的是講清楚不要每一次遇到什麼事情的時候都在一直辯解如果說你有時間在花這些時間在辯解的話那為什麼不之前公佈的時候先說明清楚先溝通清楚委員這個本來就說明過這誰的問題這誰的問題委員那個因為今天一個團體說一件事情不代表這個沒有溝通吧委員部長確認就好好不好是是OK再講一次教育部有沒有要廢除製品沒有好謝謝\n\n14\n00:05:06,304 --> 00:05:26,692\n來部長我們進入到今天比較實質的問題幾個部分偏鄉地區教育發展條例現在也已經推出了6年那可是呢之前有講過去年啊其實就國教署就已經有提出5項的一個修法期許也希望說113年學年可以執行那目前進度為何\n\n15\n00:05:27,915 --> 00:05:54,353\n五項,那應該是一個面向啦,不是修法的五個面向。修法的期許,也要提出改善的措施,希望是說能夠改善。那而且本來想是說三年檢討一次,但是因為疫情所以沒有檢討嘛。對不對,之前推出六年,但是三年檢討一次,那沒有檢討。那現在偏鄉跟少子化問題越來越嚴重,所以我們想是說現在偏鄉教育的資源是不是更加嚴重了?\n\n16\n00:05:56,192 --> 00:06:19,701\n委員那個現在是進入第二期的檢討階段第一期有檢討所以包含那個分級跟認定標準有從原來的9項因為大家反映了所以變成15項的評估指標學校也有列爭這是第一期主要的檢討的來我們有沒有看到說有媒體也報導有八成的偏鄉教師認為行政工作影響到教學\n\n17\n00:06:20,521 --> 00:06:36,421\n那目前行政負擔讓偏鄉教師想要離職這是不是也是主要偏鄉的老師一直找不到人的主要原因委員所提的這也是這一次在報告裡面談的一個很重要的核心原因就是因為人力不多那我們有沒有提出什麼樣的\n\n18\n00:06:36,701 --> 00:06:45,427\n教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第3會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期\n\n19\n00:07:05,782 --> 00:07:08,305\n區域資源為中心,以多大的區域為概念?本席選區有2、3個偏鄉學校包括石門、巴黎\n\n20\n00:07:24,421 --> 00:07:42,492\n如果說你要以區域為概念來減輕這個行政負擔的話,是以縣市還是以什麼樣的一個區域劃分?應該不會大到縣啦,那太大了,以我們新北來講,應該我如果有我初步的構想,因為這個當然一定要跟縣市討論一下,我覺得像如果以新北為例,以地為選區劃分,\n\n21\n00:07:44,013 --> 00:08:06,423\n教育部立法院第11屆第11屆議員選區劃分還是以學區劃分我們這一次有幾個不同的模式不好意思我都覺得成功的今天應該往下擴展像那個平板的採購它就更大區域但是像那個中央廚房的部分它就小區域現在做共產就是這樣所以本席現在在問的是那你們現在方向\n\n22\n00:08:07,443 --> 00:08:20,251\n大區域分小區域分還是幾個學校花一區?委員我覺得應該是比較用行政區的概念幾個比如說新北有29個行政區我們教育系統的區域因為板橋就一區而已板土區那你那個大概涵蓋4、5個鄉鎮\n\n23\n00:08:30,057 --> 00:08:46,909\n是,板橋沒有偏鄉學校嘛不是,我是舉例啦我是跟委員舉例說他這樣的概念部長是不是到現在還沒有一個點所以說你現在只能一直在背大牆不會不會那你現在方向是什麼我們聽到半天我相信媒體朋友或是說我們那麼有邏輯的人也聽不懂\n\n24\n00:08:47,910 --> 00:09:06,413\n我現在只請教你說那你們現在會以怎麼樣去我認同我認同這個方向就是說偏鄉學校不要一校去辦一樣的這種數目性的業務而是說你可能幾個學校一起辦一次數目性業務給各幾個學校那我現在在問的是你會幾個學校一起做\n\n25\n00:09:08,688 --> 00:09:32,496\n北海岸化一區金山萬里石門三芝納進來四個鄉鎮就可以有一個主要來辦然後四個鄉鎮來含瓜來使用還是說要怎麼分因為這很直接啊你們訂出來之後才能夠來幫忙我們偏鄉的行政但是不是由教育部去決定什麼時候會出來現在就在整理這個跟縣市做討論那什麼時候會出來\n\n26\n00:09:34,717 --> 00:09:45,418\n我請說五二零之前可能沒辦法啦因為這個真的要跟他們討論一下沒關係因為你既然也已經拖了八年了我也不是五二零之前出來啦這是這一次座談裡面大家提出一個很重要的建議什麼時候會出來\n\n27\n00:09:48,424 --> 00:10:15,921\n七月三十就是新學年度開始前嗎?非常好就是在下個學年度等於是113年學年度開始的時候會出來就偏鄉的這個行政那再來有一個叫做九任獎金今年第六頁也特別提到本席看了一下我也很鼓勵啊我覺得重賞之下有勇夫不然的話這些偏鄉的學校的老師他很有熱忱然後他去那也很辛苦那結果我看了一下\n\n28\n00:10:16,901 --> 00:10:40,764\n九任獎金服務八年才發第一次九任獎金並且在一一四年等於二零二五年兩年後才要發任哇等了八年終於可以拿到一筆九任獎金我覺得這是榮譽啊那我很好奇說到底九任獎金有多少錢結果我服務在偏鄉滿八年九任獎金第一次發放兩年後發放多少錢一個人\n\n29\n00:10:46,412 --> 00:11:03,043\n三個數字不一樣七萬塊九任獎金服務了八年在偏鄉七萬塊而且要等2025年還要兩年後才能拿到所以讓外界覺得說九任獎金絕對不是九任獎金九等獎金\n\n30\n00:11:04,161 --> 00:11:09,042\n教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第8條條文修正草案案案案案。\n\n31\n00:11:31,570 --> 00:11:45,270\n教育部是在歧捨我們還是是在打發我們?所以要9任獎金要服務滿8年結果給我7萬塊而且7萬塊不是現在拿是2025年等到第一批服務了8年才能拿\n\n32\n00:11:48,081 --> 00:12:06,900\n能不能有變通的做法?」委員這個時長我提一下譬如說像有一些企業我也知道就是說我現在發這獎金的意義是希望是說你可以服務滿八年嘛那有一些企業是譬如說假設他年終抽獎摸到股票他可能你可以領股票但是兩年內你不得離職\n\n33\n00:12:07,961 --> 00:12:09,181\n教育及文化委員會第18條條文修正草案案案。\n\n34\n00:12:39,008 --> 00:12:54,120\n能不能檢討?委員這個發放的方式跟額度啦我想這個因為當時公佈實施是第一次啦這個確實可以在這樣的過程當中我們再做一個滾動的檢討但是要等這一次還是兩年後2025發放\n\n35\n00:12:55,461 --> 00:13:19,783\n教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第3會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第5會期教育部立法院第6會期教育部立法院第7會期教育部立法院第8會期教育部立法院第9會期教育部立法院第10會期教育部立法院第10會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期\n\n36\n00:13:21,158 --> 00:13:47,976\n我說實在話我都很希望各位同仁來我辦公室我們一定都是以禮相待我也很希望能夠跟大家討論在這個殿堂上面我不是要壓過你你不是要壓過我我們是要平等的互相來質詢但是把委員的問題聽清楚直接明瞭的回答問題我覺得這比較重要我沒有比較大但是我重點是我今天準備的所有資料都是有所本我不會刻意找茬我跟你也沒有私人恩怨\n\n37\n00:13:49,554 --> 00:14:11,446\n偏鄉的問題真的很重要尤其是現在還有代理就偏鄉甚至被很多代理老師都覺得說這根本就是已經是一個笑話這些問題我們持續討論部長要離開我祝福但我更希望我們教育的同仁大家一起努力我們讓偏鄉能夠得到好的教育品質謝謝好謝謝委員謝謝黃孟楷委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9\t12648\t教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會\n16310\t43953\t委員好部長在今天的這個專案報告之前本席先請教我們4月30號的時候有公佈國小及國中學生獎程準則這是有上線到您這邊有啊這個是一個正式那個國教法的不國教法的授權執法的發佈好那其中很多人就看到就是說裡面有一些狀況是不是修法的過度傾向於學權沒有考慮教師的教學專業\n45894\t62964\t其中裡面有特別提到是說要求學生違反服裝遺容規定只能正向管教口頭糾正不得懲處那很多人就講說是不是變相的要廢除制服啊以前2016年民進黨政府上任之後就已經有提出這個\n64285\t83881\t變相廢紙制服但那還僅限於說高中但現在連國小、國中都要來做這樣的事情來我先請教如果說違反服裝儀容的學生他就是不穿制服怎麼辦老師要怎麼做老師的現場教學專業他沒有辦法沒有辦法管教那要怎麼做\n85280\t114347\t我跟你們報告,這可能誤解了啦我們在109年就是公布...如果誤解的話那是外界大家都誤解啦所以我裡面寫的就是這樣教育部有正式的澄清啦這個不是這一次修準則是在109年當時服裝儀容外界也很關心所以當時我們說學校一定要成立服裝儀容委員會邀請當然學校的老師、家長、學生代表來共同參與透過這樣的程序去律定我們這個學校服裝儀容的相關規範就是所謂的公約啦\n115347\t141957\t公約其實在當時裡面也提到如果學生應該依照這個方式來做遵循如果學生有違反 那麼應該給予合比例適當的這方面的管教部長你講的都是歷史 但是現在就4月30號說你針對國小國中的獎懲準則你又新增 又告訴大家是說如果違反服裝儀容的話只能正向管教口頭糾正那我們就講是說其實穿制服最重要的理由是什麼\n142897\t158097\t國小國中在這個15歲以下的學童穿制服最主要意義是我們不希望他第一他可以避免比較減少貧富差距的展現再來他有可能展現忠誠展現榮耀一個群體的概念嘛\n158678\t182097\t那現在昨天前天沒有看到說現在連貧富在台灣的現狀下民進黨政府執政之下貧富差距可以高達66.9%欸66.9%我想現況那我們現在希望是說在國小國中的學童他穿制服不要去比較那未來如果說你這樣放寬了會不會有人我高興穿名牌那有人我就沒有辦法每天換好衣服我剛才跟我們報告一個很關鍵\n183398\t200979\t這個學校的服裝衣容是由這個學校的服裝衣容委員會決定這個決定包含家長如果全國我們再做一個一致性的規範大概不合時宜啦那我已經知道齁之前天能啊學生加一個不是學校的外套就被學校學生處分了這個不合理嘛\n203021\t229215\t只是為了保暖欸老師穿得緊緊的學生壓力鍵外套被處罰本席在問你A你不要答B我現在只想問的是我現在只想要確認的是我們有沒有要廢紙制服沒有沒有很好部長雖然你只剩不到20天就要離開喔但你的宣示就代表是教育部的一個態度是沒有廢紙制服但是每個學校的規定我們要尊重好不好跟委員報告\n230694\t247252\t每個學校因為他經過服裝委員會討論出來這個學校要兩天穿制服要三天穿便服部長本席今天心平氣和來這邊跟你就教因為外界誤解委員那麼清楚應該不會誤解就是因為你們提出來之後讓外界誤解\n248763\t274670\t是誰造成的?不要本末倒置嘛!沒有本末倒置啦!你本來就本末倒置,如果說沒有外界誤解的話,不會每一次你們再提出來的時候都有外界那麼多疑慮今天本席利用國會職權時間幫你問清楚我代表的是所有家長,我代表的是關心這個議題的家長、學生以及學校教職人員每一次都是你們沒有先溝通,沒有讓第一線教職人員知道大家的反應\n276544\t304721\t今天不是在比大小聲今天要的是講清楚不要每一次遇到什麼事情的時候都在一直辯解如果說你有時間在花這些時間在辯解的話那為什麼不之前公佈的時候先說明清楚先溝通清楚委員這個本來就說明過這誰的問題這誰的問題委員那個因為今天一個團體說一件事情不代表這個沒有溝通吧委員部長確認就好好不好是是OK再講一次教育部有沒有要廢除製品沒有好謝謝\n306304\t326692\t來部長我們進入到今天比較實質的問題幾個部分偏鄉地區教育發展條例現在也已經推出了6年那可是呢之前有講過去年啊其實就國教署就已經有提出5項的一個修法期許也希望說113年學年可以執行那目前進度為何\n327915\t354353\t五項,那應該是一個面向啦,不是修法的五個面向。修法的期許,也要提出改善的措施,希望是說能夠改善。那而且本來想是說三年檢討一次,但是因為疫情所以沒有檢討嘛。對不對,之前推出六年,但是三年檢討一次,那沒有檢討。那現在偏鄉跟少子化問題越來越嚴重,所以我們想是說現在偏鄉教育的資源是不是更加嚴重了?\n356192\t379701\t委員那個現在是進入第二期的檢討階段第一期有檢討所以包含那個分級跟認定標準有從原來的9項因為大家反映了所以變成15項的評估指標學校也有列爭這是第一期主要的檢討的來我們有沒有看到說有媒體也報導有八成的偏鄉教師認為行政工作影響到教學\n380521\t396421\t那目前行政負擔讓偏鄉教師想要離職這是不是也是主要偏鄉的老師一直找不到人的主要原因委員所提的這也是這一次在報告裡面談的一個很重要的核心原因就是因為人力不多那我們有沒有提出什麼樣的\n396701\t405427\t教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第3會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期\n425782\t428305\t區域資源為中心,以多大的區域為概念?本席選區有2、3個偏鄉學校包括石門、巴黎\n444421\t462492\t如果說你要以區域為概念來減輕這個行政負擔的話,是以縣市還是以什麼樣的一個區域劃分?應該不會大到縣啦,那太大了,以我們新北來講,應該我如果有我初步的構想,因為這個當然一定要跟縣市討論一下,我覺得像如果以新北為例,以地為選區劃分,\n464013\t486423\t教育部立法院第11屆第11屆議員選區劃分還是以學區劃分我們這一次有幾個不同的模式不好意思我都覺得成功的今天應該往下擴展像那個平板的採購它就更大區域但是像那個中央廚房的部分它就小區域現在做共產就是這樣所以本席現在在問的是那你們現在方向\n487443\t500251\t大區域分小區域分還是幾個學校花一區?委員我覺得應該是比較用行政區的概念幾個比如說新北有29個行政區我們教育系統的區域因為板橋就一區而已板土區那你那個大概涵蓋4、5個鄉鎮\n510057\t526909\t是,板橋沒有偏鄉學校嘛不是,我是舉例啦我是跟委員舉例說他這樣的概念部長是不是到現在還沒有一個點所以說你現在只能一直在背大牆不會不會那你現在方向是什麼我們聽到半天我相信媒體朋友或是說我們那麼有邏輯的人也聽不懂\n527910\t546413\t我現在只請教你說那你們現在會以怎麼樣去我認同我認同這個方向就是說偏鄉學校不要一校去辦一樣的這種數目性的業務而是說你可能幾個學校一起辦一次數目性業務給各幾個學校那我現在在問的是你會幾個學校一起做\n548688\t572496\t北海岸化一區金山萬里石門三芝納進來四個鄉鎮就可以有一個主要來辦然後四個鄉鎮來含瓜來使用還是說要怎麼分因為這很直接啊你們訂出來之後才能夠來幫忙我們偏鄉的行政但是不是由教育部去決定什麼時候會出來現在就在整理這個跟縣市做討論那什麼時候會出來\n574717\t585418\t我請說五二零之前可能沒辦法啦因為這個真的要跟他們討論一下沒關係因為你既然也已經拖了八年了我也不是五二零之前出來啦這是這一次座談裡面大家提出一個很重要的建議什麼時候會出來\n588424\t615921\t七月三十就是新學年度開始前嗎?非常好就是在下個學年度等於是113年學年度開始的時候會出來就偏鄉的這個行政那再來有一個叫做九任獎金今年第六頁也特別提到本席看了一下我也很鼓勵啊我覺得重賞之下有勇夫不然的話這些偏鄉的學校的老師他很有熱忱然後他去那也很辛苦那結果我看了一下\n616901\t640764\t九任獎金服務八年才發第一次九任獎金並且在一一四年等於二零二五年兩年後才要發任哇等了八年終於可以拿到一筆九任獎金我覺得這是榮譽啊那我很好奇說到底九任獎金有多少錢結果我服務在偏鄉滿八年九任獎金第一次發放兩年後發放多少錢一個人\n646412\t663043\t三個數字不一樣七萬塊九任獎金服務了八年在偏鄉七萬塊而且要等2025年還要兩年後才能拿到所以讓外界覺得說九任獎金絕對不是九任獎金九等獎金\n664161\t669042\t教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第8條條文修正草案案案案案。\n691570\t705270\t教育部是在歧捨我們還是是在打發我們?所以要9任獎金要服務滿8年結果給我7萬塊而且7萬塊不是現在拿是2025年等到第一批服務了8年才能拿\n708081\t726900\t能不能有變通的做法?」委員這個時長我提一下譬如說像有一些企業我也知道就是說我現在發這獎金的意義是希望是說你可以服務滿八年嘛那有一些企業是譬如說假設他年終抽獎摸到股票他可能你可以領股票但是兩年內你不得離職\n727961\t729181\t教育及文化委員會第18條條文修正草案案 案。\n759008\t774120\t能不能檢討?委員這個發放的方式跟額度啦我想這個因為當時公佈實施是第一次啦這個確實可以在這樣的過程當中我們再做一個滾動的檢討但是要等這一次還是兩年後2025發放\n775461\t799783\t教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第3會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第5會期教育部立法院第6會期教育部立法院第7會期教育部立法院第8會期教育部立法院第9會期教育部立法院第10會期教育部立法院第10會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期\n801158\t827976\t我說實在話我都很希望各位同仁來我辦公室我們一定都是以禮相待我也很希望能夠跟大家討論在這個殿堂上面我不是要壓過你你不是要壓過我我們是要平等的互相來質詢但是把委員的問題聽清楚直接明瞭的回答問題我覺得這比較重要我沒有比較大但是我重點是我今天準備的所有資料都是有所本我不會刻意找茬我跟你也沒有私人恩怨\n829554\t851446\t偏鄉的問題真的很重要尤其是現在還有代理就偏鄉甚至被很多代理老師都覺得說這根本就是已經是一個笑話這些問題我們持續討論部長要離開我祝福但我更希望我們教育的同仁大家一起努力我們讓偏鄉能夠得到好的教育品質謝謝好 謝謝委員謝謝黃孟楷委員\n","txt":"教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會\n委員好部長在今天的這個專案報告之前本席先請教我們4月30號的時候有公佈國小及國中學生獎程準則這是有上線到您這邊有啊這個是一個正式那個國教法的不國教法的授權執法的發佈好那其中很多人就看到就是說裡面有一些狀況是不是修法的過度傾向於學權沒有考慮教師的教學專業\n其中裡面有特別提到是說要求學生違反服裝遺容規定只能正向管教口頭糾正不得懲處那很多人就講說是不是變相的要廢除制服啊以前2016年民進黨政府上任之後就已經有提出這個\n變相廢紙制服但那還僅限於說高中但現在連國小、國中都要來做這樣的事情來我先請教如果說違反服裝儀容的學生他就是不穿制服怎麼辦老師要怎麼做老師的現場教學專業他沒有辦法沒有辦法管教那要怎麼做\n我跟你們報告,這可能誤解了啦我們在109年就是公布...如果誤解的話那是外界大家都誤解啦所以我裡面寫的就是這樣教育部有正式的澄清啦這個不是這一次修準則是在109年當時服裝儀容外界也很關心所以當時我們說學校一定要成立服裝儀容委員會邀請當然學校的老師、家長、學生代表來共同參與透過這樣的程序去律定我們這個學校服裝儀容的相關規範就是所謂的公約啦\n公約其實在當時裡面也提到如果學生應該依照這個方式來做遵循如果學生有違反 那麼應該給予合比例適當的這方面的管教部長你講的都是歷史 但是現在就4月30號說你針對國小國中的獎懲準則你又新增 又告訴大家是說如果違反服裝儀容的話只能正向管教口頭糾正那我們就講是說其實穿制服最重要的理由是什麼\n國小國中在這個15歲以下的學童穿制服最主要意義是我們不希望他第一他可以避免比較減少貧富差距的展現再來他有可能展現忠誠展現榮耀一個群體的概念嘛\n那現在昨天前天沒有看到說現在連貧富在台灣的現狀下民進黨政府執政之下貧富差距可以高達66.9%欸66.9%我想現況那我們現在希望是說在國小國中的學童他穿制服不要去比較那未來如果說你這樣放寬了會不會有人我高興穿名牌那有人我就沒有辦法每天換好衣服我剛才跟我們報告一個很關鍵\n這個學校的服裝衣容是由這個學校的服裝衣容委員會決定這個決定包含家長如果全國我們再做一個一致性的規範大概不合時宜啦那我已經知道齁之前天能啊學生加一個不是學校的外套就被學校學生處分了這個不合理嘛\n只是為了保暖欸老師穿得緊緊的學生壓力鍵外套被處罰本席在問你A你不要答B我現在只想問的是我現在只想要確認的是我們有沒有要廢紙制服沒有沒有很好部長雖然你只剩不到20天就要離開喔但你的宣示就代表是教育部的一個態度是沒有廢紙制服但是每個學校的規定我們要尊重好不好跟委員報告\n每個學校因為他經過服裝委員會討論出來這個學校要兩天穿制服要三天穿便服部長本席今天心平氣和來這邊跟你就教因為外界誤解委員那麼清楚應該不會誤解就是因為你們提出來之後讓外界誤解\n是誰造成的?不要本末倒置嘛!沒有本末倒置啦!你本來就本末倒置,如果說沒有外界誤解的話,不會每一次你們再提出來的時候都有外界那麼多疑慮今天本席利用國會職權時間幫你問清楚我代表的是所有家長,我代表的是關心這個議題的家長、學生以及學校教職人員每一次都是你們沒有先溝通,沒有讓第一線教職人員知道大家的反應\n今天不是在比大小聲今天要的是講清楚不要每一次遇到什麼事情的時候都在一直辯解如果說你有時間在花這些時間在辯解的話那為什麼不之前公佈的時候先說明清楚先溝通清楚委員這個本來就說明過這誰的問題這誰的問題委員那個因為今天一個團體說一件事情不代表這個沒有溝通吧委員部長確認就好好不好是是OK再講一次教育部有沒有要廢除製品沒有好謝謝\n來部長我們進入到今天比較實質的問題幾個部分偏鄉地區教育發展條例現在也已經推出了6年那可是呢之前有講過去年啊其實就國教署就已經有提出5項的一個修法期許也希望說113年學年可以執行那目前進度為何\n五項,那應該是一個面向啦,不是修法的五個面向。修法的期許,也要提出改善的措施,希望是說能夠改善。那而且本來想是說三年檢討一次,但是因為疫情所以沒有檢討嘛。對不對,之前推出六年,但是三年檢討一次,那沒有檢討。那現在偏鄉跟少子化問題越來越嚴重,所以我們想是說現在偏鄉教育的資源是不是更加嚴重了?\n委員那個現在是進入第二期的檢討階段第一期有檢討所以包含那個分級跟認定標準有從原來的9項因為大家反映了所以變成15項的評估指標學校也有列爭這是第一期主要的檢討的來我們有沒有看到說有媒體也報導有八成的偏鄉教師認為行政工作影響到教學\n那目前行政負擔讓偏鄉教師想要離職這是不是也是主要偏鄉的老師一直找不到人的主要原因委員所提的這也是這一次在報告裡面談的一個很重要的核心原因就是因為人力不多那我們有沒有提出什麼樣的\n教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第3會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期\n區域資源為中心,以多大的區域為概念?本席選區有2、3個偏鄉學校包括石門、巴黎\n如果說你要以區域為概念來減輕這個行政負擔的話,是以縣市還是以什麼樣的一個區域劃分?應該不會大到縣啦,那太大了,以我們新北來講,應該我如果有我初步的構想,因為這個當然一定要跟縣市討論一下,我覺得像如果以新北為例,以地為選區劃分,\n教育部立法院第11屆第11屆議員選區劃分還是以學區劃分我們這一次有幾個不同的模式不好意思我都覺得成功的今天應該往下擴展像那個平板的採購它就更大區域但是像那個中央廚房的部分它就小區域現在做共產就是這樣所以本席現在在問的是那你們現在方向\n大區域分小區域分還是幾個學校花一區?委員我覺得應該是比較用行政區的概念幾個比如說新北有29個行政區我們教育系統的區域因為板橋就一區而已板土區那你那個大概涵蓋4、5個鄉鎮\n是,板橋沒有偏鄉學校嘛不是,我是舉例啦我是跟委員舉例說他這樣的概念部長是不是到現在還沒有一個點所以說你現在只能一直在背大牆不會不會那你現在方向是什麼我們聽到半天我相信媒體朋友或是說我們那麼有邏輯的人也聽不懂\n我現在只請教你說那你們現在會以怎麼樣去我認同我認同這個方向就是說偏鄉學校不要一校去辦一樣的這種數目性的業務而是說你可能幾個學校一起辦一次數目性業務給各幾個學校那我現在在問的是你會幾個學校一起做\n北海岸化一區金山萬里石門三芝納進來四個鄉鎮就可以有一個主要來辦然後四個鄉鎮來含瓜來使用還是說要怎麼分因為這很直接啊你們訂出來之後才能夠來幫忙我們偏鄉的行政但是不是由教育部去決定什麼時候會出來現在就在整理這個跟縣市做討論那什麼時候會出來\n我請說五二零之前可能沒辦法啦因為這個真的要跟他們討論一下沒關係因為你既然也已經拖了八年了我也不是五二零之前出來啦這是這一次座談裡面大家提出一個很重要的建議什麼時候會出來\n七月三十就是新學年度開始前嗎?非常好就是在下個學年度等於是113年學年度開始的時候會出來就偏鄉的這個行政那再來有一個叫做九任獎金今年第六頁也特別提到本席看了一下我也很鼓勵啊我覺得重賞之下有勇夫不然的話這些偏鄉的學校的老師他很有熱忱然後他去那也很辛苦那結果我看了一下\n九任獎金服務八年才發第一次九任獎金並且在一一四年等於二零二五年兩年後才要發任哇等了八年終於可以拿到一筆九任獎金我覺得這是榮譽啊那我很好奇說到底九任獎金有多少錢結果我服務在偏鄉滿八年九任獎金第一次發放兩年後發放多少錢一個人\n三個數字不一樣七萬塊九任獎金服務了八年在偏鄉七萬塊而且要等2025年還要兩年後才能拿到所以讓外界覺得說九任獎金絕對不是九任獎金九等獎金\n教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第8條條文修正草案案案案案。\n教育部是在歧捨我們還是是在打發我們?所以要9任獎金要服務滿8年結果給我7萬塊而且7萬塊不是現在拿是2025年等到第一批服務了8年才能拿\n能不能有變通的做法?」委員這個時長我提一下譬如說像有一些企業我也知道就是說我現在發這獎金的意義是希望是說你可以服務滿八年嘛那有一些企業是譬如說假設他年終抽獎摸到股票他可能你可以領股票但是兩年內你不得離職\n教育及文化委員會第18條條文修正草案案 案。\n能不能檢討?委員這個發放的方式跟額度啦我想這個因為當時公佈實施是第一次啦這個確實可以在這樣的過程當中我們再做一個滾動的檢討但是要等這一次還是兩年後2025發放\n教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第3會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第5會期教育部立法院第6會期教育部立法院第7會期教育部立法院第8會期教育部立法院第9會期教育部立法院第10會期教育部立法院第10會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期\n我說實在話我都很希望各位同仁來我辦公室我們一定都是以禮相待我也很希望能夠跟大家討論在這個殿堂上面我不是要壓過你你不是要壓過我我們是要平等的互相來質詢但是把委員的問題聽清楚直接明瞭的回答問題我覺得這比較重要我沒有比較大但是我重點是我今天準備的所有資料都是有所本我不會刻意找茬我跟你也沒有私人恩怨\n偏鄉的問題真的很重要尤其是現在還有代理就偏鄉甚至被很多代理老師都覺得說這根本就是已經是一個笑話這些問題我們持續討論部長要離開我祝福但我更希望我們教育的同仁大家一起努力我們讓偏鄉能夠得到好的教育品質謝謝好 謝謝委員謝謝黃孟楷委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.009 --> 00:12.648\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會\n\n00:16.310 --> 00:43.953\n委員好部長在今天的這個專案報告之前本席先請教我們4月30號的時候有公佈國小及國中學生獎程準則這是有上線到您這邊有啊這個是一個正式那個國教法的不國教法的授權執法的發佈好那其中很多人就看到就是說裡面有一些狀況是不是修法的過度傾向於學權沒有考慮教師的教學專業\n\n00:45.894 --> 01:02.964\n其中裡面有特別提到是說要求學生違反服裝遺容規定只能正向管教口頭糾正不得懲處那很多人就講說是不是變相的要廢除制服啊以前2016年民進黨政府上任之後就已經有提出這個\n\n01:04.285 --> 01:23.881\n變相廢紙制服但那還僅限於說高中但現在連國小、國中都要來做這樣的事情來我先請教如果說違反服裝儀容的學生他就是不穿制服怎麼辦老師要怎麼做老師的現場教學專業他沒有辦法沒有辦法管教那要怎麼做\n\n01:25.280 --> 01:54.347\n我跟你們報告,這可能誤解了啦我們在109年就是公布...如果誤解的話那是外界大家都誤解啦所以我裡面寫的就是這樣教育部有正式的澄清啦這個不是這一次修準則是在109年當時服裝儀容外界也很關心所以當時我們說學校一定要成立服裝儀容委員會邀請當然學校的老師、家長、學生代表來共同參與透過這樣的程序去律定我們這個學校服裝儀容的相關規範就是所謂的公約啦\n\n01:55.347 --> 02:21.957\n公約其實在當時裡面也提到如果學生應該依照這個方式來做遵循如果學生有違反那麼應該給予合比例適當的這方面的管教部長你講的都是歷史但是現在就4月30號說你針對國小國中的獎懲準則你又新增又告訴大家是說如果違反服裝儀容的話只能正向管教口頭糾正那我們就講是說其實穿制服最重要的理由是什麼\n\n02:22.897 --> 02:38.097\n國小國中在這個15歲以下的學童穿制服最主要意義是我們不希望他第一他可以避免比較減少貧富差距的展現再來他有可能展現忠誠展現榮耀一個群體的概念嘛\n\n02:38.678 --> 03:02.097\n那現在昨天前天沒有看到說現在連貧富在台灣的現狀下民進黨政府執政之下貧富差距可以高達66.9%欸66.9%我想現況那我們現在希望是說在國小國中的學童他穿制服不要去比較那未來如果說你這樣放寬了會不會有人我高興穿名牌那有人我就沒有辦法每天換好衣服我剛才跟我們報告一個很關鍵\n\n03:03.398 --> 03:20.979\n這個學校的服裝衣容是由這個學校的服裝衣容委員會決定這個決定包含家長如果全國我們再做一個一致性的規範大概不合時宜啦那我已經知道齁之前天能啊學生加一個不是學校的外套就被學校學生處分了這個不合理嘛\n\n03:23.021 --> 03:49.215\n只是為了保暖欸老師穿得緊緊的學生壓力鍵外套被處罰本席在問你A你不要答B我現在只想問的是我現在只想要確認的是我們有沒有要廢紙制服沒有沒有很好部長雖然你只剩不到20天就要離開喔但你的宣示就代表是教育部的一個態度是沒有廢紙制服但是每個學校的規定我們要尊重好不好跟委員報告\n\n03:50.694 --> 04:07.252\n每個學校因為他經過服裝委員會討論出來這個學校要兩天穿制服要三天穿便服部長本席今天心平氣和來這邊跟你就教因為外界誤解委員那麼清楚應該不會誤解就是因為你們提出來之後讓外界誤解\n\n04:08.763 --> 04:34.670\n是誰造成的?不要本末倒置嘛!沒有本末倒置啦!你本來就本末倒置,如果說沒有外界誤解的話,不會每一次你們再提出來的時候都有外界那麼多疑慮今天本席利用國會職權時間幫你問清楚我代表的是所有家長,我代表的是關心這個議題的家長、學生以及學校教職人員每一次都是你們沒有先溝通,沒有讓第一線教職人員知道大家的反應\n\n04:36.544 --> 05:04.721\n今天不是在比大小聲今天要的是講清楚不要每一次遇到什麼事情的時候都在一直辯解如果說你有時間在花這些時間在辯解的話那為什麼不之前公佈的時候先說明清楚先溝通清楚委員這個本來就說明過這誰的問題這誰的問題委員那個因為今天一個團體說一件事情不代表這個沒有溝通吧委員部長確認就好好不好是是OK再講一次教育部有沒有要廢除製品沒有好謝謝\n\n05:06.304 --> 05:26.692\n來部長我們進入到今天比較實質的問題幾個部分偏鄉地區教育發展條例現在也已經推出了6年那可是呢之前有講過去年啊其實就國教署就已經有提出5項的一個修法期許也希望說113年學年可以執行那目前進度為何\n\n05:27.915 --> 05:54.353\n五項,那應該是一個面向啦,不是修法的五個面向。修法的期許,也要提出改善的措施,希望是說能夠改善。那而且本來想是說三年檢討一次,但是因為疫情所以沒有檢討嘛。對不對,之前推出六年,但是三年檢討一次,那沒有檢討。那現在偏鄉跟少子化問題越來越嚴重,所以我們想是說現在偏鄉教育的資源是不是更加嚴重了?\n\n05:56.192 --> 06:19.701\n委員那個現在是進入第二期的檢討階段第一期有檢討所以包含那個分級跟認定標準有從原來的9項因為大家反映了所以變成15項的評估指標學校也有列爭這是第一期主要的檢討的來我們有沒有看到說有媒體也報導有八成的偏鄉教師認為行政工作影響到教學\n\n06:20.521 --> 06:36.421\n那目前行政負擔讓偏鄉教師想要離職這是不是也是主要偏鄉的老師一直找不到人的主要原因委員所提的這也是這一次在報告裡面談的一個很重要的核心原因就是因為人力不多那我們有沒有提出什麼樣的\n\n06:36.701 --> 06:45.427\n教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第3會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期\n\n07:05.782 --> 07:08.305\n區域資源為中心,以多大的區域為概念?本席選區有2、3個偏鄉學校包括石門、巴黎\n\n07:24.421 --> 07:42.492\n如果說你要以區域為概念來減輕這個行政負擔的話,是以縣市還是以什麼樣的一個區域劃分?應該不會大到縣啦,那太大了,以我們新北來講,應該我如果有我初步的構想,因為這個當然一定要跟縣市討論一下,我覺得像如果以新北為例,以地為選區劃分,\n\n07:44.013 --> 08:06.423\n教育部立法院第11屆第11屆議員選區劃分還是以學區劃分我們這一次有幾個不同的模式不好意思我都覺得成功的今天應該往下擴展像那個平板的採購它就更大區域但是像那個中央廚房的部分它就小區域現在做共產就是這樣所以本席現在在問的是那你們現在方向\n\n08:07.443 --> 08:20.251\n大區域分小區域分還是幾個學校花一區?委員我覺得應該是比較用行政區的概念幾個比如說新北有29個行政區我們教育系統的區域因為板橋就一區而已板土區那你那個大概涵蓋4、5個鄉鎮\n\n08:30.057 --> 08:46.909\n是,板橋沒有偏鄉學校嘛不是,我是舉例啦我是跟委員舉例說他這樣的概念部長是不是到現在還沒有一個點所以說你現在只能一直在背大牆不會不會那你現在方向是什麼我們聽到半天我相信媒體朋友或是說我們那麼有邏輯的人也聽不懂\n\n08:47.910 --> 09:06.413\n我現在只請教你說那你們現在會以怎麼樣去我認同我認同這個方向就是說偏鄉學校不要一校去辦一樣的這種數目性的業務而是說你可能幾個學校一起辦一次數目性業務給各幾個學校那我現在在問的是你會幾個學校一起做\n\n09:08.688 --> 09:32.496\n北海岸化一區金山萬里石門三芝納進來四個鄉鎮就可以有一個主要來辦然後四個鄉鎮來含瓜來使用還是說要怎麼分因為這很直接啊你們訂出來之後才能夠來幫忙我們偏鄉的行政但是不是由教育部去決定什麼時候會出來現在就在整理這個跟縣市做討論那什麼時候會出來\n\n09:34.717 --> 09:45.418\n我請說五二零之前可能沒辦法啦因為這個真的要跟他們討論一下沒關係因為你既然也已經拖了八年了我也不是五二零之前出來啦這是這一次座談裡面大家提出一個很重要的建議什麼時候會出來\n\n09:48.424 --> 10:15.921\n七月三十就是新學年度開始前嗎?非常好就是在下個學年度等於是113年學年度開始的時候會出來就偏鄉的這個行政那再來有一個叫做九任獎金今年第六頁也特別提到本席看了一下我也很鼓勵啊我覺得重賞之下有勇夫不然的話這些偏鄉的學校的老師他很有熱忱然後他去那也很辛苦那結果我看了一下\n\n10:16.901 --> 10:40.764\n九任獎金服務八年才發第一次九任獎金並且在一一四年等於二零二五年兩年後才要發任哇等了八年終於可以拿到一筆九任獎金我覺得這是榮譽啊那我很好奇說到底九任獎金有多少錢結果我服務在偏鄉滿八年九任獎金第一次發放兩年後發放多少錢一個人\n\n10:46.412 --> 11:03.043\n三個數字不一樣七萬塊九任獎金服務了八年在偏鄉七萬塊而且要等2025年還要兩年後才能拿到所以讓外界覺得說九任獎金絕對不是九任獎金九等獎金\n\n11:04.161 --> 11:09.042\n教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第8條條文修正草案案案案案。\n\n11:31.570 --> 11:45.270\n教育部是在歧捨我們還是是在打發我們?所以要9任獎金要服務滿8年結果給我7萬塊而且7萬塊不是現在拿是2025年等到第一批服務了8年才能拿\n\n11:48.081 --> 12:06.900\n能不能有變通的做法?」委員這個時長我提一下譬如說像有一些企業我也知道就是說我現在發這獎金的意義是希望是說你可以服務滿八年嘛那有一些企業是譬如說假設他年終抽獎摸到股票他可能你可以領股票但是兩年內你不得離職\n\n12:07.961 --> 12:09.181\n教育及文化委員會第18條條文修正草案案案。\n\n12:39.008 --> 12:54.120\n能不能檢討?委員這個發放的方式跟額度啦我想這個因為當時公佈實施是第一次啦這個確實可以在這樣的過程當中我們再做一個滾動的檢討但是要等這一次還是兩年後2025發放\n\n12:55.461 --> 13:19.783\n教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第3會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第5會期教育部立法院第6會期教育部立法院第7會期教育部立法院第8會期教育部立法院第9會期教育部立法院第10會期教育部立法院第10會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期\n\n13:21.158 --> 13:47.976\n我說實在話我都很希望各位同仁來我辦公室我們一定都是以禮相待我也很希望能夠跟大家討論在這個殿堂上面我不是要壓過你你不是要壓過我我們是要平等的互相來質詢但是把委員的問題聽清楚直接明瞭的回答問題我覺得這比較重要我沒有比較大但是我重點是我今天準備的所有資料都是有所本我不會刻意找茬我跟你也沒有私人恩怨\n\n13:49.554 --> 14:11.446\n偏鄉的問題真的很重要尤其是現在還有代理就偏鄉甚至被很多代理老師都覺得說這根本就是已經是一個笑話這些問題我們持續討論部長要離開我祝福但我更希望我們教育的同仁大家一起努力我們讓偏鄉能夠得到好的教育品質謝謝好謝謝委員謝謝黃孟楷委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.009,"end":12.648,"text":"教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會"},{"start":16.31,"end":43.953,"text":"委員好部長在今天的這個專案報告之前本席先請教我們4月30號的時候有公佈國小及國中學生獎程準則這是有上線到您這邊有啊這個是一個正式那個國教法的不國教法的授權執法的發佈好那其中很多人就看到就是說裡面有一些狀況是不是修法的過度傾向於學權沒有考慮教師的教學專業"},{"start":45.894,"end":62.964,"text":"其中裡面有特別提到是說要求學生違反服裝遺容規定只能正向管教口頭糾正不得懲處那很多人就講說是不是變相的要廢除制服啊以前2016年民進黨政府上任之後就已經有提出這個"},{"start":64.285,"end":83.881,"text":"變相廢紙制服但那還僅限於說高中但現在連國小、國中都要來做這樣的事情來我先請教如果說違反服裝儀容的學生他就是不穿制服怎麼辦老師要怎麼做老師的現場教學專業他沒有辦法沒有辦法管教那要怎麼做"},{"start":85.28,"end":114.347,"text":"我跟你們報告,這可能誤解了啦我們在109年就是公布...如果誤解的話那是外界大家都誤解啦所以我裡面寫的就是這樣教育部有正式的澄清啦這個不是這一次修準則是在109年當時服裝儀容外界也很關心所以當時我們說學校一定要成立服裝儀容委員會邀請當然學校的老師、家長、學生代表來共同參與透過這樣的程序去律定我們這個學校服裝儀容的相關規範就是所謂的公約啦"},{"start":115.347,"end":141.957,"text":"公約其實在當時裡面也提到如果學生應該依照這個方式來做遵循如果學生有違反 那麼應該給予合比例適當的這方面的管教部長你講的都是歷史 但是現在就4月30號說你針對國小國中的獎懲準則你又新增 又告訴大家是說如果違反服裝儀容的話只能正向管教口頭糾正那我們就講是說其實穿制服最重要的理由是什麼"},{"start":142.897,"end":158.097,"text":"國小國中在這個15歲以下的學童穿制服最主要意義是我們不希望他第一他可以避免比較減少貧富差距的展現再來他有可能展現忠誠展現榮耀一個群體的概念嘛"},{"start":158.678,"end":182.097,"text":"那現在昨天前天沒有看到說現在連貧富在台灣的現狀下民進黨政府執政之下貧富差距可以高達66.9%欸66.9%我想現況那我們現在希望是說在國小國中的學童他穿制服不要去比較那未來如果說你這樣放寬了會不會有人我高興穿名牌那有人我就沒有辦法每天換好衣服我剛才跟我們報告一個很關鍵"},{"start":183.398,"end":200.979,"text":"這個學校的服裝衣容是由這個學校的服裝衣容委員會決定這個決定包含家長如果全國我們再做一個一致性的規範大概不合時宜啦那我已經知道齁之前天能啊學生加一個不是學校的外套就被學校學生處分了這個不合理嘛"},{"start":203.021,"end":229.215,"text":"只是為了保暖欸老師穿得緊緊的學生壓力鍵外套被處罰本席在問你A你不要答B我現在只想問的是我現在只想要確認的是我們有沒有要廢紙制服沒有沒有很好部長雖然你只剩不到20天就要離開喔但你的宣示就代表是教育部的一個態度是沒有廢紙制服但是每個學校的規定我們要尊重好不好跟委員報告"},{"start":230.694,"end":247.252,"text":"每個學校因為他經過服裝委員會討論出來這個學校要兩天穿制服要三天穿便服部長本席今天心平氣和來這邊跟你就教因為外界誤解委員那麼清楚應該不會誤解就是因為你們提出來之後讓外界誤解"},{"start":248.763,"end":274.67,"text":"是誰造成的?不要本末倒置嘛!沒有本末倒置啦!你本來就本末倒置,如果說沒有外界誤解的話,不會每一次你們再提出來的時候都有外界那麼多疑慮今天本席利用國會職權時間幫你問清楚我代表的是所有家長,我代表的是關心這個議題的家長、學生以及學校教職人員每一次都是你們沒有先溝通,沒有讓第一線教職人員知道大家的反應"},{"start":276.544,"end":304.721,"text":"今天不是在比大小聲今天要的是講清楚不要每一次遇到什麼事情的時候都在一直辯解如果說你有時間在花這些時間在辯解的話那為什麼不之前公佈的時候先說明清楚先溝通清楚委員這個本來就說明過這誰的問題這誰的問題委員那個因為今天一個團體說一件事情不代表這個沒有溝通吧委員部長確認就好好不好是是OK再講一次教育部有沒有要廢除製品沒有好謝謝"},{"start":306.304,"end":326.692,"text":"來部長我們進入到今天比較實質的問題幾個部分偏鄉地區教育發展條例現在也已經推出了6年那可是呢之前有講過去年啊其實就國教署就已經有提出5項的一個修法期許也希望說113年學年可以執行那目前進度為何"},{"start":327.915,"end":354.353,"text":"五項,那應該是一個面向啦,不是修法的五個面向。修法的期許,也要提出改善的措施,希望是說能夠改善。那而且本來想是說三年檢討一次,但是因為疫情所以沒有檢討嘛。對不對,之前推出六年,但是三年檢討一次,那沒有檢討。那現在偏鄉跟少子化問題越來越嚴重,所以我們想是說現在偏鄉教育的資源是不是更加嚴重了?"},{"start":356.192,"end":379.701,"text":"委員那個現在是進入第二期的檢討階段第一期有檢討所以包含那個分級跟認定標準有從原來的9項因為大家反映了所以變成15項的評估指標學校也有列爭這是第一期主要的檢討的來我們有沒有看到說有媒體也報導有八成的偏鄉教師認為行政工作影響到教學"},{"start":380.521,"end":396.421,"text":"那目前行政負擔讓偏鄉教師想要離職這是不是也是主要偏鄉的老師一直找不到人的主要原因委員所提的這也是這一次在報告裡面談的一個很重要的核心原因就是因為人力不多那我們有沒有提出什麼樣的"},{"start":396.701,"end":405.427,"text":"教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第3會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期"},{"start":425.782,"end":428.305,"text":"區域資源為中心,以多大的區域為概念?本席選區有2、3個偏鄉學校包括石門、巴黎"},{"start":444.421,"end":462.492,"text":"如果說你要以區域為概念來減輕這個行政負擔的話,是以縣市還是以什麼樣的一個區域劃分?應該不會大到縣啦,那太大了,以我們新北來講,應該我如果有我初步的構想,因為這個當然一定要跟縣市討論一下,我覺得像如果以新北為例,以地為選區劃分,"},{"start":464.013,"end":486.423,"text":"教育部立法院第11屆第11屆議員選區劃分還是以學區劃分我們這一次有幾個不同的模式不好意思我都覺得成功的今天應該往下擴展像那個平板的採購它就更大區域但是像那個中央廚房的部分它就小區域現在做共產就是這樣所以本席現在在問的是那你們現在方向"},{"start":487.443,"end":500.251,"text":"大區域分小區域分還是幾個學校花一區?委員我覺得應該是比較用行政區的概念幾個比如說新北有29個行政區我們教育系統的區域因為板橋就一區而已板土區那你那個大概涵蓋4、5個鄉鎮"},{"start":510.057,"end":526.909,"text":"是,板橋沒有偏鄉學校嘛不是,我是舉例啦我是跟委員舉例說他這樣的概念部長是不是到現在還沒有一個點所以說你現在只能一直在背大牆不會不會那你現在方向是什麼我們聽到半天我相信媒體朋友或是說我們那麼有邏輯的人也聽不懂"},{"start":527.91,"end":546.413,"text":"我現在只請教你說那你們現在會以怎麼樣去我認同我認同這個方向就是說偏鄉學校不要一校去辦一樣的這種數目性的業務而是說你可能幾個學校一起辦一次數目性業務給各幾個學校那我現在在問的是你會幾個學校一起做"},{"start":548.688,"end":572.496,"text":"北海岸化一區金山萬里石門三芝納進來四個鄉鎮就可以有一個主要來辦然後四個鄉鎮來含瓜來使用還是說要怎麼分因為這很直接啊你們訂出來之後才能夠來幫忙我們偏鄉的行政但是不是由教育部去決定什麼時候會出來現在就在整理這個跟縣市做討論那什麼時候會出來"},{"start":574.717,"end":585.418,"text":"我請說五二零之前可能沒辦法啦因為這個真的要跟他們討論一下沒關係因為你既然也已經拖了八年了我也不是五二零之前出來啦這是這一次座談裡面大家提出一個很重要的建議什麼時候會出來"},{"start":588.424,"end":615.921,"text":"七月三十就是新學年度開始前嗎?非常好就是在下個學年度等於是113年學年度開始的時候會出來就偏鄉的這個行政那再來有一個叫做九任獎金今年第六頁也特別提到本席看了一下我也很鼓勵啊我覺得重賞之下有勇夫不然的話這些偏鄉的學校的老師他很有熱忱然後他去那也很辛苦那結果我看了一下"},{"start":616.901,"end":640.764,"text":"九任獎金服務八年才發第一次九任獎金並且在一一四年等於二零二五年兩年後才要發任哇等了八年終於可以拿到一筆九任獎金我覺得這是榮譽啊那我很好奇說到底九任獎金有多少錢結果我服務在偏鄉滿八年九任獎金第一次發放兩年後發放多少錢一個人"},{"start":646.412,"end":663.043,"text":"三個數字不一樣七萬塊九任獎金服務了八年在偏鄉七萬塊而且要等2025年還要兩年後才能拿到所以讓外界覺得說九任獎金絕對不是九任獎金九等獎金"},{"start":664.161,"end":669.042,"text":"教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第8條條文修正草案案案案案。"},{"start":691.57,"end":705.27,"text":"教育部是在歧捨我們還是是在打發我們?所以要9任獎金要服務滿8年結果給我7萬塊而且7萬塊不是現在拿是2025年等到第一批服務了8年才能拿"},{"start":708.081,"end":726.9,"text":"能不能有變通的做法?」委員這個時長我提一下譬如說像有一些企業我也知道就是說我現在發這獎金的意義是希望是說你可以服務滿八年嘛那有一些企業是譬如說假設他年終抽獎摸到股票他可能你可以領股票但是兩年內你不得離職"},{"start":727.961,"end":729.181,"text":"教育及文化委員會第18條條文修正草案案 案。"},{"start":759.008,"end":774.12,"text":"能不能檢討?委員這個發放的方式跟額度啦我想這個因為當時公佈實施是第一次啦這個確實可以在這樣的過程當中我們再做一個滾動的檢討但是要等這一次還是兩年後2025發放"},{"start":775.461,"end":799.783,"text":"教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第3會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第5會期教育部立法院第6會期教育部立法院第7會期教育部立法院第8會期教育部立法院第9會期教育部立法院第10會期教育部立法院第10會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期"},{"start":801.158,"end":827.976,"text":"我說實在話我都很希望各位同仁來我辦公室我們一定都是以禮相待我也很希望能夠跟大家討論在這個殿堂上面我不是要壓過你你不是要壓過我我們是要平等的互相來質詢但是把委員的問題聽清楚直接明瞭的回答問題我覺得這比較重要我沒有比較大但是我重點是我今天準備的所有資料都是有所本我不會刻意找茬我跟你也沒有私人恩怨"},{"start":829.554,"end":851.446,"text":"偏鄉的問題真的很重要尤其是現在還有代理就偏鄉甚至被很多代理老師都覺得說這根本就是已經是一個笑話這些問題我們持續討論部長要離開我祝福但我更希望我們教育的同仁大家一起努力我們讓偏鄉能夠得到好的教育品質謝謝好 謝謝委員謝謝黃孟楷委員"}]}}}}