{"id":152007,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152007","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6f015fe8e6787db1a3413eb5f259f470e12ebde737ab3c1955be169921a0a7176ffb1ffb47bf31ea5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱議瑩","委員發言時間":"09:33:00 - 09:42:33","影片長度":"00:09:33","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：審查：\n一、行政院函請審議「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、本院委員柯志恩等17人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n三、本院委員賴士葆等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n四、本院委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n五、本院委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「中小企業發展條例增訂第三十六條之四條文草案」案。\n六、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n七、本院國民黨黨團擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n八、本院委員張智倫等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十五條、第三十六條之二及第四十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、本院委員王世堅等16人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十五條、第三十六條之二及第四十條條文修正草案」案。\n十、本院委員郭國文等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n十一、本院委員邱議瑩等29人擬具「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（詢答及處理，委員郭國文等人提案如未接獲議事處來函則不予審查）【4月29日、5月1日及2日三天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-02","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-10"},"duration":573,"end_time":"2024-05-02T09:42:33+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-02T09:33:00+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":146,"blocks":[["邱委員議瑩：（9時33分）謝謝主席，請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["邱委員議瑩：部長早。部長，我們今天在審查中小企業發展條例，還是要先跟您請教一下，有關現在整個中小企業的概況，我們看到國家銀行對中小企業的放款餘額，在2023年底是九兆七千六百多億，雖然看起來比過去的幅度低，但是很顯然企業資金的需求動能還在，臺灣中小企業現在占全體企業高達98%以上，可以提供九百多萬個工作機會，所以今天行政院跟很多委員也都提出了中小企業發展條例的修正草案。","部長，這次修法有幾個重點，第一個，當然是我們要增僱員工的租稅優惠，現在要增加納入45歲以上中高齡及高齡者為適用對象，增僱員工租稅優惠的加成減除率提高到150%，本席的版本是175%，部長，您怎麼看？包括何欣純委員提的一個案子是希望納入到55歲以上，我覺得其實55歲以上都還算是壯年，都還算是一個非常成熟、非常精壯的年代。部長，還是直接就我上面提的問題，你怎麼看？就是說您同不同意，如果我們把這個年齡再往上提高；第二個，這樣的租稅優惠，你們估算會不會產生稅損？"],["王部長美花：第一個，我們這一次有納入45歲以上，所以只要是45歲以上就可以享用這樣的減稅加成。"],["邱委員議瑩：如果我們再拉一個級距呢？"],["王部長美花：那就除非是兩個不同……"],["邱委員議瑩：比如說我再拉一個級距，如55歲或是65歲以上，租稅的加成減除率可以到200%，如果再拉一個級距起來，您覺得呢？"],["王部長美花：因為我們有去算過，65歲以上的人相關再就業的比例非常、非常低，所以即使是訂一個65歲以上的級距，事實上效果沒有很大。"],["邱委員議瑩：部長，我就是要讓您看一下這一張圖，我也曾經在院會總質詢的時候有提出，其實臺灣現在65歲的勞動參與率只有9.62%，就像您講的，65歲以上再就業的比例非常低。但是你看到日本，他們其實一直在鼓勵他們的高齡人口再就業，或者是延長退休年紀，我覺得臺灣相對來講，現在65歲看起來都還非常年輕，他如果能夠持續在職場上發揮他的經驗、發揮他的能力，我覺得如果有一些中小企業能夠回聘這些所謂的中高齡者，讓他們來發揮他們的專長，在中小企業裡面提供一些他們的經驗分享，甚至導入更多的經營觀念、作法，是不是有可能讓這些中高齡再就業的勞動參與率能夠上升？我不曉得行政院或你們經濟部有沒有做過這樣的相關討論？"],["王部長美花：兩個問題，第一個就是現在勞基法讓65歲以上可以繼續工作的部分，目前臺灣的機制有了，而這個法律的修改是針對65歲以上，就像委員講的，讓他再回聘時給他加成減除，這是第一個；第二個，事實上，在勞動部有非常多的機制，針對中高齡或高齡就業的部分有非常多的補助機制。"],["邱委員議瑩：所以您覺得不適合放在我們今天的提案，去做65歲以上這樣的……"],["王部長美花：對，65歲以上的部分，勞動部已經有相關的補助。"],["邱委員議瑩：就回到勞動部的勞動基準法的相關補助去做討論。"],["王部長美花：對，它有相關補助。"],["邱委員議瑩：部長，我也再跟您請教第二個問題，就是跟這個法條有關，你們講到說，限制中小企業最近3年若有因違反環保、勞工或食安等相關法律且情節重大，經各中央目的事業主管機關認定者，就不得申請此條例的租稅優惠。部長，前一陣子寶林茶室的中毒案大家都非常關心，在更早之前，所謂的蘇丹紅，應該是同一組人馬創立了10間不同的公司，類似像這樣的重大食安案件，請問你們要怎麼查，你們會怎麼查？如何認定它叫做情節重大，是經濟部自己來認定呢，還是會會同其他的部會來認定？"],["王部長美花：我們會請相關的單位來幫我們認定。目前政府的資訊系統就這個公司有沒有違反法規都有系統了，那我們會就它……"],["邱委員議瑩：它如果換個名字、換個負責人，但實際經營者還是同一批，而且您會不會覺得假如只限制它不得申請租稅優惠3年，其實3年對他來講或許是很短的時間，3年之後它換一個人、換一個負責人的名字、換一個公司的名字又重新再來，您查得到嗎？經濟部查得到嗎？"],["王部長美花：如果就現在的沒有辦法這樣查，除非是在個案裡面有法院的認定或者是有行政機關的認定，才有辦法這樣再去勾稽。"],["邱委員議瑩：所以它還是有可能會去規避掉這些法律的……鑽法律漏洞啦，就是它換個名字，公司名字也換……"],["王部長美花：假設有這樣鑽的話，對！"],["邱委員議瑩：換一個負責人的名字，但是實際經營者還是同一批人，比如我們看蘇丹紅這個很清楚嘛，其實公司設立都在同一個地方，但是它有10間不同的公司名字，整個經營者大概都是他們同一批人、都是家族裡面的人。我也知道除非都在同一個地址很好查，如果它都是在不同的地址的話，基本上你們是很難去稽查的！"],["王部長美花：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：但是對於這樣子造成重大食安議題的租稅減免是不是只有3年？有沒有可能再延長？就是免除它不能有租稅優惠的時限是不是能夠再延長到5年？"],["王部長美花：第一個，像蘇丹紅這個案子，因為發現有這個現象，所以目前我們經濟部商業署把資料整理出來之後給衛福部，衛福部如果做了處分，那就變成這一批所有的公司都會被處分，那就可以知道、有這個紀錄了。","那3年是現在相關的法規都是定一樣的3年。"],["邱委員議瑩：都是定3年？"],["王部長美花：對。"],["邱委員議瑩：主席，可不可以再給我1分鐘？我想要請教一下，如果部長來不及回答也沒有關係，是不是可以給我一些書面的紀錄？有關我們台美21世紀貿易倡議的進度，其中有一個中小企業的專章，而我們今天談到中小企業的發展條例，其實我很想知道對於這個東西，經濟部的中小企業署如何輔導我們的中小企業能夠符合所謂的中小企業專章？有沒有辦法協助他們做提升？請您簡要回答，如果來不及的話，可不可以給我一些比較詳細的說明？"],["王部長美花：是，在這個專章下面，至少經濟部的部分已經成立一個委員會，這個委員會我們也邀請這些中小企業的領袖一起來參加，而未來怎麼樣跟美國這邊的中小企業對接，然後尋找更多的商機，這是滿有意義的事情。"],["邱委員議瑩：所以你們已經在持續進行當中？"],["王部長美花：我們有成立了，現在跟美國都有很多不同產業的合作，關於這些合作，我們這邊也會讓這些相關的中小企業來參與相關的產業合作。"],["邱委員議瑩：可以說明的部分是不是也給本席一個書面？"],["王部長美花：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：好不好？謝謝。"],["王部長美花：好。"],["主席：接下來請郭國文委員做提案說明。"],["郭委員國文：感謝主席，經濟委員會各位委員、還有在場的王美花部長。本席針對中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二提出修正草案的看法是，原來的條文其實有如僵屍條文，重看且不能用！我們就一直期待經濟部提出的這一個條款內容是不是有更精進之處，但是就經濟部所提的：現在院版的修正案當中可以通過4,000個工作機會、帶動207家企業加薪、5,850名員工受惠。老實說，如果動用這麼大的修法成本、耗費這麼多的行政作業跟流程而達到這樣的效果，實在非常、非常划不來！而且與整體的163萬家的中小企業、913萬勞工相比，這個數字真的是微乎其微啦，所以我真的覺得目前院版的版本實在過於保守！基本上我們對這個加薪抵稅的條款賦予相當高的期待，我真的覺得應該要好好放寬，因此本席提出一個相關的修正案。","特別是最近我們整個GDP的占比在薪資部分是逐年下滑，它不像其他國家是逐年攀升，對照其他的國家來說，不論是美國也好、日本也好、韓國也好均超過52%，而我們呢？44%不到；另外在企業盈餘的部分，別的國家是逐年降低，而我們卻是逐年攀升！也就是說，GDP這個經濟成果的共享顯然非常的不均衡、也不公平，方向上也跟其他國家不一致。","因此我跟院版有一個主要條文的變化跟差異，第一個，取消經濟景氣指數要件，也就是取消失業率的門檻，將獎勵常態化。第二個，也把年齡的門檻做區隔，首先只要增聘本國員工，減除的比例就應該提升為150%；但如果是特定對象的部分，也就是24歲以下或45歲以上，目前經濟部、院版的條款當中規範這一個特定年齡的對象，減除的比例更應該提高到200%。在這樣的情況底下，我相信會相對有誘因，我覺得經濟部不用替財政部考量太多，還擔心那個稅損的問題，而且最近我們稅收還算不錯，所以我認為應該用比較大膽的方式來進行加薪抵稅的修正，才能真正達到政策的目標。以上，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來繼續詢答，請謝衣鳯委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":510,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-10","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","謝衣鳯","賴士葆","邱議瑩","張智倫","郭國文","陳亭妃","林岱樺","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","呂玉玲","蔡易餘","洪孟楷","邱志偉","鍾佳濱","賴瑞隆","陳冠廷","陳培瑜","張嘉郡","黃國昌","陳超明","牛煦庭","羅廷瑋"],"page_start":419,"meetingDate":["2024-05-02"],"gazette_id":"1133801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查：一、行政院函請審議「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案；二、本院委員柯志恩等\n17人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案；三、本院委員賴士葆等19人擬\n具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案；四、本院委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「中\n小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案；五、本院委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「中小企業\n發展條例增訂第三十六條之四條文草案」案；六、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「中小企業發展條例\n部分條文修正草案」案；七、本院國民黨黨團擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正\n草案」案；八、本院委員張智倫等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十五條、第三十六條之二及\n第四十條條文修正草案」案；九、本院委員王世堅等16人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十五條、\n第三十六條之二及第四十條條文修正草案」案；十、本院委員郭國文等19人擬具「中小企業發展\n條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案；十一、本院委員邱議瑩等29人擬具「中小企業發展條例\n部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133801_00006"}},"transcript":{"id":"152007","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152007","tool":"pyannote","id":"152007-pyannote"},"job_id":"wWZoxfUivmeL2fSz","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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三、本院委員賴士葆等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。"},"job_id":"biaxDYZJhSPeozzd","queued_at":"2024-05-31 14:11:56","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 14:12:26","msg":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152007 already downloaded"},{"time":"2024-05-31 14:12:26","msg":"running whisperx with  --language zh --model large-v3 --initial_prompt '會議名稱：立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：審查：\n一、行政院函請審議「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、本院委員柯志恩等17人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n三、本院委員賴士葆等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。'"},{"time":"2024-05-31 14:12:46","msg":"merging result"},{"time":"2024-05-31 14:12:46","msg":"status: done"}],"result":{"json":"{\"segments\": [{\"start\": 2.393, \"end\": 3.934, \"text\": \"我們今天尋答時間是多久?6加1\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 2.393, \"end\": 2.733, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 2.733, \"end\": 3.134, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 3.134, \"end\": 3.454, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"尋\"}, {\"word\": \"答\", \"start\": 3.454, \"end\": 3.534, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", 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\"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,393 --> 00:00:03,934\n我們今天尋答時間是多久?6加1\n\n2\n00:00:27,740 --> 00:00:28,621\n法定人數不足\n\n3\n00:01:17,140 --> 00:01:37,396\nadequa當然是我們要增顧員工的租稅優惠現在要增加納入45歲以上中高齡及高齡者為適用的對象那這個增顧員工的這個租稅優惠的加成減除率提高到150%本期的版本是175%部長您怎麼看\n\n4\n00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:48,757\n我後來覺得其實包括何欣淳委員提的一個案子是他希望納入到55歲以上\n\n5\n00:01:51,724 --> 00:02:19,153\n那我覺得其實55歲以上都還算是壯年啊都還算是一個非常成熟非常精壯的這樣的一個年代部長我還是直接就我上面提的問題你怎麼看就說您同不同意如果我們把這個年齡再把它往上提高那第二個我們這樣的一個租稅優惠你們的估算它會不會產生稅損\n\n6\n00:02:37,185 --> 00:02:40,308\n那就是說我再拉一個集聚,55歲或者是65歲以上,我們的那個租稅的那個加成減除率是可以到200%,如果再拉一個集聚起來呢,您覺得?因為我們有去算過,比如說是65歲以上的人,這個相關的\n\n7\n00:02:58,203 --> 00:02:59,383\nbicyn其實臺灣現在65歲的勞動參與率只有9.62%,就是您講的。\n\n8\n00:03:52,005 --> 00:04:07,743\nbicyn迴聘這些比較這個才叫所謂的中高齡讓他們來發揮他們的專長在中小企業上面提供一些他們的這個經驗分享甚至來導入更多的這一些經營的觀念做法\n\n9\n00:04:08,869 --> 00:04:15,692\n是不是有可能讓我們在創造這些中高齡在就業的這個參與勞動參與率能夠讓它上升?我不曉得這個你們行政院就是說經濟部或者是有沒有做過這樣的相關的討論?兩個問題吼那第一個就是現在的勞基法讓65歲以上可以繼續工作這個目前台灣的機制有了吼那這個法律的修改是\n\n10\n00:04:35,822 --> 00:04:58,219\nbicyn針對65歲以上就像委員講讓他再回聘的話給他加成減除這是第一個那第二個呢事實上在勞動部那一邊有非常多的機制針對這個中高齡或者高齡就業的這個部分有非常多的補助的機制所以您覺得不適合放在我們今天的這個提案裡頭去做65歲以上的這樣對65歲以上那個勞動部就回到勞動部的那個勞動基準法裡頭的這個相關補助\n\n11\n00:05:05,745 --> 00:05:05,885\n議員主席\n\n12\n00:05:33,010 --> 00:05:46,223\n議員柯志恩等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會第11條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬\n\n13\n00:05:52,769 --> 00:06:00,616\n請問你們要怎麼查?你們會怎麼查?那如何認定它叫做情節重大?是經濟部自己來認定呢?還是會同其他的部會來認定?我們會請相關的單位來幫我們認定。那目前政府的這個秩序系統就這個公司有沒有違反法規都有系統了。\n\n14\n00:06:11,826 --> 00:06:37,937\n那如果換個名字換個名字換個負責人但實際經營者還是同一批而且您會不會覺得假如我只限制他三年的租稅優惠不得申請租稅優惠三年他其實三年來對他來講或許很短的時間三年之後他換一個人換一個負責人的名字換一個公司的名字又重新再來您查得到嗎經濟部查得到嗎\n\n15\n00:06:38,377 --> 00:06:57,127\nbicyn如果就現在的沒有辦法這樣查那除非是在個案裡面有法院的認定或者是有行政機關的認定才有辦法這樣再去勾結所以他還是有可能會去規避掉這些法律的鑽這個所謂的法律漏洞就是他換個名字\n\n16\n00:07:39,249 --> 00:07:39,989\n三年是現在相關的法規都是定一樣的三年。\n\n17\n00:08:08,618 --> 00:08:29,064\n主席可不可以再給我一分鐘,我想要請教一下,如果部長你來不及回答也沒有關係,是不是可以給我一些書面的記錄,就是我們這個臺美21世紀的貿易倡議進度,其中它裡面有一個中小企業的專章,那我們今天在談到中小企業的發展條例,其實我比較很想知道就是說對於這個東西經濟部的中小企業署,\n\n18\n00:08:31,125 --> 00:08:46,770\n如何來輔導我們的中小企業能夠符合所謂的中小企業專章?有沒有辦法來協助他們做提升?是不是請您簡要回答?那如果來不及的話可不可以給我一些比較詳細的說明?那這個部分我們在這個專章下面我們已經兩邊至少經濟部的部分已經成立一個委員會那這個委員會我們也邀請這個中小企業的這些領袖一直來參加\n\n19\n00:08:57,614 --> 00:08:58,575\n閱讀《中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案》案。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2393\t3934\t我們今天尋答時間是多久?6加1\n27740\t28621\t法定人數不足\n57500\t76920\t\n77140\t97396\tadequa當然是我們要增顧員工的租稅優惠現在要增加納入45歲以上中高齡及高齡者為適用的對象那這個增顧員工的這個租稅優惠的加成減除率提高到150%本期的版本是175%部長您怎麼看\n102080\t108757\t我後來覺得其實包括何欣淳委員提的一個案子是他希望納入到55歲以上\n111724\t139153\t那我覺得其實55歲以上都還算是壯年啊都還算是一個非常成熟非常精壯的這樣的一個年代部長我還是直接就我上面提的問題你怎麼看就說您同不同意如果我們把這個年齡再把它往上提高那第二個我們這樣的一個租稅優惠你們的估算它會不會產生稅損\n141937\t156749\t⋯⋯⋯\n157185\t160308\t那就是說我再拉一個集聚,55歲或者是65歲以上,我們的那個租稅的那個加成減除率是可以到200%,如果再拉一個集聚起來呢,您覺得?因為我們有去算過,比如說是65歲以上的人,這個相關的\n178203\t179383\tbicyn 其實臺灣現在65歲的勞動參與率只有9.62%,就是您講的。\n200811\t210469\t\n210828\t232005\t\n232005\t247743\tbicyn 迴聘這些比較這個才叫所謂的中高齡讓他們來發揮他們的專長在中小企業上面提供一些他們的這個經驗分享甚至來導入更多的這一些經營的觀念做法\n248869\t255692\t是不是有可能讓我們在創造這些中高齡在就業的這個參與勞動參與率能夠讓它上升?我不曉得這個你們行政院就是說經濟部或者是有沒有做過這樣的相關的討論?兩個問題吼那第一個就是現在的勞基法讓65歲以上可以繼續工作這個目前台灣的機制有了吼那這個法律的修改是\n275822\t298219\tbicyn 針對65歲以上就像委員講讓他再回聘的話給他加成減除這是第一個那第二個呢事實上在勞動部那一邊有非常多的機制針對這個中高齡或者高齡就業的這個部分有非常多的補助的機制所以您覺得不適合放在我們今天的這個提案裡頭去做65歲以上的這樣對65歲以上那個勞動部就回到勞動部的那個勞動基準法裡頭的這個相關補助\n305745\t305885\t議員主席\n333010\t346223\t議員柯志恩等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會第11條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬\n352769\t360616\t請問你們要怎麼查?你們會怎麼查?那如何認定它叫做情節重大?是經濟部自己來認定呢?還是會同其他的部會來認定?我們會請相關的單位來幫我們認定。那目前政府的這個秩序系統就這個公司有沒有違反法規都有系統了。\n371826\t397937\t那如果換個名字換個名字換個負責人但實際經營者還是同一批而且您會不會覺得假如我只限制他三年的租稅優惠不得申請租稅優惠三年他其實三年來對他來講或許很短的時間三年之後他換一個人換一個負責人的名字換一個公司的名字又重新再來您查得到嗎經濟部查得到嗎\n398377\t417127\tbicyn 如果就現在的沒有辦法這樣查那除非是在個案裡面有法院的認定或者是有行政機關的認定才有辦法這樣再去勾結所以他還是有可能會去規避掉這些法律的鑽這個所謂的法律漏洞就是他換個名字\n417807\t439821\t\n439821\t458951\t議員審議\n459249\t459989\t三年是現在相關的法規都是定一樣的三年。\n488618\t509064\t主席可不可以再給我一分鐘,我想要請教一下,如果部長你來不及回答也沒有關係,是不是可以給我一些書面的記錄,就是我們這個臺美21世紀的貿易倡議進度,其中它裡面有一個中小企業的專章,那我們今天在談到中小企業的發展條例,其實我比較很想知道就是說對於這個東西經濟部的中小企業署,\n511125\t526770\t如何來輔導我們的中小企業能夠符合所謂的中小企業專章?有沒有辦法來協助他們做提升?是不是請您簡要回答?那如果來不及的話可不可以給我一些比較詳細的說明?那這個部分我們在這個專章下面我們已經兩邊至少經濟部的部分已經成立一個委員會那這個委員會我們也邀請這個中小企業的這些領袖一直來參加\n537614\t538575\t閱讀《中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案》案。\n","txt":"我們今天尋答時間是多久?6加1\n法定人數不足\n\nadequa當然是我們要增顧員工的租稅優惠現在要增加納入45歲以上中高齡及高齡者為適用的對象那這個增顧員工的這個租稅優惠的加成減除率提高到150%本期的版本是175%部長您怎麼看\n我後來覺得其實包括何欣淳委員提的一個案子是他希望納入到55歲以上\n那我覺得其實55歲以上都還算是壯年啊都還算是一個非常成熟非常精壯的這樣的一個年代部長我還是直接就我上面提的問題你怎麼看就說您同不同意如果我們把這個年齡再把它往上提高那第二個我們這樣的一個租稅優惠你們的估算它會不會產生稅損\n⋯⋯⋯\n那就是說我再拉一個集聚,55歲或者是65歲以上,我們的那個租稅的那個加成減除率是可以到200%,如果再拉一個集聚起來呢,您覺得?因為我們有去算過,比如說是65歲以上的人,這個相關的\nbicyn 其實臺灣現在65歲的勞動參與率只有9.62%,就是您講的。\n\n\nbicyn 迴聘這些比較這個才叫所謂的中高齡讓他們來發揮他們的專長在中小企業上面提供一些他們的這個經驗分享甚至來導入更多的這一些經營的觀念做法\n是不是有可能讓我們在創造這些中高齡在就業的這個參與勞動參與率能夠讓它上升?我不曉得這個你們行政院就是說經濟部或者是有沒有做過這樣的相關的討論?兩個問題吼那第一個就是現在的勞基法讓65歲以上可以繼續工作這個目前台灣的機制有了吼那這個法律的修改是\nbicyn 針對65歲以上就像委員講讓他再回聘的話給他加成減除這是第一個那第二個呢事實上在勞動部那一邊有非常多的機制針對這個中高齡或者高齡就業的這個部分有非常多的補助的機制所以您覺得不適合放在我們今天的這個提案裡頭去做65歲以上的這樣對65歲以上那個勞動部就回到勞動部的那個勞動基準法裡頭的這個相關補助\n議員主席\n議員柯志恩等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會第11條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬\n請問你們要怎麼查?你們會怎麼查?那如何認定它叫做情節重大?是經濟部自己來認定呢?還是會同其他的部會來認定?我們會請相關的單位來幫我們認定。那目前政府的這個秩序系統就這個公司有沒有違反法規都有系統了。\n那如果換個名字換個名字換個負責人但實際經營者還是同一批而且您會不會覺得假如我只限制他三年的租稅優惠不得申請租稅優惠三年他其實三年來對他來講或許很短的時間三年之後他換一個人換一個負責人的名字換一個公司的名字又重新再來您查得到嗎經濟部查得到嗎\nbicyn 如果就現在的沒有辦法這樣查那除非是在個案裡面有法院的認定或者是有行政機關的認定才有辦法這樣再去勾結所以他還是有可能會去規避掉這些法律的鑽這個所謂的法律漏洞就是他換個名字\n\n議員審議\n三年是現在相關的法規都是定一樣的三年。\n主席可不可以再給我一分鐘,我想要請教一下,如果部長你來不及回答也沒有關係,是不是可以給我一些書面的記錄,就是我們這個臺美21世紀的貿易倡議進度,其中它裡面有一個中小企業的專章,那我們今天在談到中小企業的發展條例,其實我比較很想知道就是說對於這個東西經濟部的中小企業署,\n如何來輔導我們的中小企業能夠符合所謂的中小企業專章?有沒有辦法來協助他們做提升?是不是請您簡要回答?那如果來不及的話可不可以給我一些比較詳細的說明?那這個部分我們在這個專章下面我們已經兩邊至少經濟部的部分已經成立一個委員會那這個委員會我們也邀請這個中小企業的這些領袖一直來參加\n閱讀《中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案》案。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.393 --> 00:03.934\n我們今天尋答時間是多久?6加1\n\n00:27.740 --> 00:28.621\n法定人數不足\n\n01:17.140 --> 01:37.396\nadequa當然是我們要增顧員工的租稅優惠現在要增加納入45歲以上中高齡及高齡者為適用的對象那這個增顧員工的這個租稅優惠的加成減除率提高到150%本期的版本是175%部長您怎麼看\n\n01:42.080 --> 01:48.757\n我後來覺得其實包括何欣淳委員提的一個案子是他希望納入到55歲以上\n\n01:51.724 --> 02:19.153\n那我覺得其實55歲以上都還算是壯年啊都還算是一個非常成熟非常精壯的這樣的一個年代部長我還是直接就我上面提的問題你怎麼看就說您同不同意如果我們把這個年齡再把它往上提高那第二個我們這樣的一個租稅優惠你們的估算它會不會產生稅損\n\n02:37.185 --> 02:40.308\n那就是說我再拉一個集聚,55歲或者是65歲以上,我們的那個租稅的那個加成減除率是可以到200%,如果再拉一個集聚起來呢,您覺得?因為我們有去算過,比如說是65歲以上的人,這個相關的\n\n02:58.203 --> 02:59.383\nbicyn其實臺灣現在65歲的勞動參與率只有9.62%,就是您講的。\n\n03:52.005 --> 04:07.743\nbicyn迴聘這些比較這個才叫所謂的中高齡讓他們來發揮他們的專長在中小企業上面提供一些他們的這個經驗分享甚至來導入更多的這一些經營的觀念做法\n\n04:08.869 --> 04:15.692\n是不是有可能讓我們在創造這些中高齡在就業的這個參與勞動參與率能夠讓它上升?我不曉得這個你們行政院就是說經濟部或者是有沒有做過這樣的相關的討論?兩個問題吼那第一個就是現在的勞基法讓65歲以上可以繼續工作這個目前台灣的機制有了吼那這個法律的修改是\n\n04:35.822 --> 04:58.219\nbicyn針對65歲以上就像委員講讓他再回聘的話給他加成減除這是第一個那第二個呢事實上在勞動部那一邊有非常多的機制針對這個中高齡或者高齡就業的這個部分有非常多的補助的機制所以您覺得不適合放在我們今天的這個提案裡頭去做65歲以上的這樣對65歲以上那個勞動部就回到勞動部的那個勞動基準法裡頭的這個相關補助\n\n05:05.745 --> 05:05.885\n議員主席\n\n05:33.010 --> 05:46.223\n議員柯志恩等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會第11條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬\n\n05:52.769 --> 06:00.616\n請問你們要怎麼查?你們會怎麼查?那如何認定它叫做情節重大?是經濟部自己來認定呢?還是會同其他的部會來認定?我們會請相關的單位來幫我們認定。那目前政府的這個秩序系統就這個公司有沒有違反法規都有系統了。\n\n06:11.826 --> 06:37.937\n那如果換個名字換個名字換個負責人但實際經營者還是同一批而且您會不會覺得假如我只限制他三年的租稅優惠不得申請租稅優惠三年他其實三年來對他來講或許很短的時間三年之後他換一個人換一個負責人的名字換一個公司的名字又重新再來您查得到嗎經濟部查得到嗎\n\n06:38.377 --> 06:57.127\nbicyn如果就現在的沒有辦法這樣查那除非是在個案裡面有法院的認定或者是有行政機關的認定才有辦法這樣再去勾結所以他還是有可能會去規避掉這些法律的鑽這個所謂的法律漏洞就是他換個名字\n\n07:39.249 --> 07:39.989\n三年是現在相關的法規都是定一樣的三年。\n\n08:08.618 --> 08:29.064\n主席可不可以再給我一分鐘,我想要請教一下,如果部長你來不及回答也沒有關係,是不是可以給我一些書面的記錄,就是我們這個臺美21世紀的貿易倡議進度,其中它裡面有一個中小企業的專章,那我們今天在談到中小企業的發展條例,其實我比較很想知道就是說對於這個東西經濟部的中小企業署,\n\n08:31.125 --> 08:46.770\n如何來輔導我們的中小企業能夠符合所謂的中小企業專章?有沒有辦法來協助他們做提升?是不是請您簡要回答?那如果來不及的話可不可以給我一些比較詳細的說明?那這個部分我們在這個專章下面我們已經兩邊至少經濟部的部分已經成立一個委員會那這個委員會我們也邀請這個中小企業的這些領袖一直來參加\n\n08:57.614 --> 08:58.575\n閱讀《中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案》案。\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.393,"end":3.934,"text":"我們今天尋答時間是多久?6加1"},{"start":27.74,"end":28.621,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":57.5,"end":76.92,"text":""},{"start":77.14,"end":97.396,"text":"adequa當然是我們要增顧員工的租稅優惠現在要增加納入45歲以上中高齡及高齡者為適用的對象那這個增顧員工的這個租稅優惠的加成減除率提高到150%本期的版本是175%部長您怎麼看"},{"start":102.08,"end":108.757,"text":"我後來覺得其實包括何欣淳委員提的一個案子是他希望納入到55歲以上"},{"start":111.724,"end":139.153,"text":"那我覺得其實55歲以上都還算是壯年啊都還算是一個非常成熟非常精壯的這樣的一個年代部長我還是直接就我上面提的問題你怎麼看就說您同不同意如果我們把這個年齡再把它往上提高那第二個我們這樣的一個租稅優惠你們的估算它會不會產生稅損"},{"start":141.937,"end":156.749,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":157.185,"end":160.308,"text":"那就是說我再拉一個集聚,55歲或者是65歲以上,我們的那個租稅的那個加成減除率是可以到200%,如果再拉一個集聚起來呢,您覺得?因為我們有去算過,比如說是65歲以上的人,這個相關的"},{"start":178.203,"end":179.383,"text":" bicyn 其實臺灣現在65歲的勞動參與率只有9.62%,就是您講的。"},{"start":200.811,"end":210.469,"text":""},{"start":210.828,"end":232.005,"text":""},{"start":232.005,"end":247.743,"text":" bicyn 迴聘這些比較這個才叫所謂的中高齡讓他們來發揮他們的專長在中小企業上面提供一些他們的這個經驗分享甚至來導入更多的這一些經營的觀念做法"},{"start":248.869,"end":255.692,"text":"是不是有可能讓我們在創造這些中高齡在就業的這個參與勞動參與率能夠讓它上升?我不曉得這個你們行政院就是說經濟部或者是有沒有做過這樣的相關的討論?兩個問題吼那第一個就是現在的勞基法讓65歲以上可以繼續工作這個目前台灣的機制有了吼那這個法律的修改是"},{"start":275.822,"end":298.219,"text":" bicyn 針對65歲以上就像委員講讓他再回聘的話給他加成減除這是第一個那第二個呢事實上在勞動部那一邊有非常多的機制針對這個中高齡或者高齡就業的這個部分有非常多的補助的機制所以您覺得不適合放在我們今天的這個提案裡頭去做65歲以上的這樣對65歲以上那個勞動部就回到勞動部的那個勞動基準法裡頭的這個相關補助"},{"start":305.745,"end":305.885,"text":"議員主席"},{"start":333.01,"end":346.223,"text":"議員柯志恩等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會第11條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬"},{"start":352.769,"end":360.616,"text":"請問你們要怎麼查?你們會怎麼查?那如何認定它叫做情節重大?是經濟部自己來認定呢?還是會同其他的部會來認定?我們會請相關的單位來幫我們認定。那目前政府的這個秩序系統就這個公司有沒有違反法規都有系統了。"},{"start":371.826,"end":397.937,"text":"那如果換個名字換個名字換個負責人但實際經營者還是同一批而且您會不會覺得假如我只限制他三年的租稅優惠不得申請租稅優惠三年他其實三年來對他來講或許很短的時間三年之後他換一個人換一個負責人的名字換一個公司的名字又重新再來您查得到嗎經濟部查得到嗎"},{"start":398.377,"end":417.127,"text":" bicyn 如果就現在的沒有辦法這樣查那除非是在個案裡面有法院的認定或者是有行政機關的認定才有辦法這樣再去勾結所以他還是有可能會去規避掉這些法律的鑽這個所謂的法律漏洞就是他換個名字"},{"start":417.807,"end":439.821,"text":""},{"start":439.821,"end":458.951,"text":"議員審議"},{"start":459.249,"end":459.989,"text":"三年是現在相關的法規都是定一樣的三年。"},{"start":488.618,"end":509.064,"text":"主席可不可以再給我一分鐘,我想要請教一下,如果部長你來不及回答也沒有關係,是不是可以給我一些書面的記錄,就是我們這個臺美21世紀的貿易倡議進度,其中它裡面有一個中小企業的專章,那我們今天在談到中小企業的發展條例,其實我比較很想知道就是說對於這個東西經濟部的中小企業署,"},{"start":511.125,"end":526.77,"text":"如何來輔導我們的中小企業能夠符合所謂的中小企業專章?有沒有辦法來協助他們做提升?是不是請您簡要回答?那如果來不及的話可不可以給我一些比較詳細的說明?那這個部分我們在這個專章下面我們已經兩邊至少經濟部的部分已經成立一個委員會那這個委員會我們也邀請這個中小企業的這些領袖一直來參加"},{"start":537.614,"end":538.575,"text":"閱讀《中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案》案。"}]}}}}