{"id":152010,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152010","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6f015fe8e6787db1429bca7dc67d1a8ed5e9ec982727c87755be169921a0a717eac46a44ad82f52c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王定宇","委員發言時間":"09:33:27 - 09:45:47","影片長度":"00:12:20","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告「外交部如何構建友善工作環境暨人員心理輔導具體做法」，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-02","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第17次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":17,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-17"},"duration":740,"end_time":"2024-05-02T09:45:47+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-02T09:33:27+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":99,"blocks":[["王委員定宇：（9時33分）謝謝主席，麻煩部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["吳部長釗燮：委員早。"],["王委員定宇：部長，以後要在301看到你可能要相當久、相當久以後的時間了。"],["吳部長釗燮：301是美國301條款嗎？"],["王委員定宇：301是這個房間啦！這幾年很榮幸跟你共事。"],["吳部長釗燮：是，謝謝委員。"],["王委員定宇：我們今天的題目是討論外交部同仁的工作狀況，其實我們常常在外交委員會探討工作績效，面對的競爭、國外的情形、邀請的訪賓，可是執行這些績效的人的工作負荷（loading），有時候一個機關要運作，無兵就沒有將，所以今天這個題目很好。根據大法官釋字第785號解釋，公務員服務法及公務人員保障法規定，要落實服勤工時及加班補償相關規範，以警政單位為例，像我服務的臺南市，我選區裡面的派出所就因為要符合規範，把一些派出所合併，讓人多一點，這樣輪休的時候就不會影響勤務，都跟這個大法官解釋有關係，這是大法官釋字，我們當然要尊重，它是憲法階層。","我們在外交上的工作，常常會因為對方或服務的對象而定，或因為地緣政治或國內外政治氛圍來決定，工作時間、內容及場域不是外交部同仁可以預先規劃的，我規劃未來3個禮拜工作什麼、第4個禮拜要來度假了，很難啦！階級越低越難，有時候最辛苦的館員，各位來到這邊坐，大概都已經到一定level以上了，請你回憶你剛從外交學院出去的時候，垃圾桶都要倒，不只是要做很雜，還要做好多好多事情，這樣工作loading重，加上外交是全球工作，有點像國際貿易公司，時差的關係，所以導致工作負荷。","我前幾個禮拜去河內，我就在旁邊觀察，那些年輕的館員很優秀，越南話也很會講，跟當地政府也很能互動，他不管忙到多晚，接近半夜，負責打電報的說：「委員，我負責打電報，要趕回駐處發電報。」他還要工作。而我去看他們在審這些移工簽證的時候，那個人多到，我相信有去的委員都有看到，排到房間坐滿，一直排、排、排、排到後面走廊，再迴轉一直排下去，而且那是一天兩班其中的一班而已，所以這工作loading重。","那工作的loading重大概有兩種方式來處理，第一個，人力的配置，所以部長你看，我們統計最近從2019年、2020年、2021年、2022年到2023年，每一年辭職人數、退休人數及新入職人數，在2023年多1個，大概我們跟國際主流國家互動的績效出來了，所以離退人數比較少一點，但整個累積數光算這五年，差額41人，就是不足41個啦！部長對於這些缺額到底什麼原因，外交部有什麼計畫？"],["吳部長釗燮：有關於委員稍早講的這些部分，的確是講到我們外交部同仁很辛苦的地方，譬如說，有委員到某一個國家參訪，或者是有高層出訪，甚至是有重要的高層會議，我們同仁一定要在會議之後、在參訪之後，就必須要去寫電報，寫電報不是說馬上寫、馬上好，這都需要花時間，因此我們同仁的工作時間的確是跟其他單位是不一樣的，我們外交部同仁也有很高度的使命感，就是他一定要很快把它做好。另外有涉及到一些任務型工作的話，是以該任務完成為主，這個也很難去思考到那個……"],["王委員定宇：很多事情有事前的準備就要花很長時間嘛！"],["吳部長釗燮：對，沒有錯。"],["王委員定宇：還有事後的回饋嘛！那工作份量剛才你說的，打電報要花很長時間，有時候我們會想到加班費，坦白講，人是人，不是機器，有時候該增加員額要增加員額……"],["吳部長釗燮：我知道。"],["王委員定宇：否則有性命賺加班費，沒性命可以花，所以我剛才講，我現在看這個人力是進來報名考試的人比較少，還是合格的人比較少？為什麼會累計缺額到這個數字出來？"],["吳部長釗燮：這個細節的部分，我請人事處處長來說明。"],["王委員定宇：請說，我後面還有一個問題。"],["黃處長麗玲：跟委員報告一下，剛剛委員有提到工時問題，以前我們駐外機構是沒有加班費，也沒有補休，可是因為第785號解釋的時候，我們整個都改變過來了，所以我們也讓外館同仁也有補休，尤其是我們責成外館館長，當事情告一段落的時候，要安排他補休假，這都是我們一直要求……"],["王委員定宇：按照第785號解釋開始有加班費、開始有重量工作之後的補休，這些有沒有管考表？"],["黃處長麗玲：有，我們都有。"],["王委員定宇：你們可以不揭露個資，但是本席要看……"],["黃處長麗玲：是，我們都有。"],["王委員定宇：就是某個駐處現在辦了一個國際重要會議、某個駐處最近有個外交任務，那後續的排休、館員有多少、local staff有多少、怎麼排休，因為我們希望真的落實到照顧需要照顧的人，他有辛苦付出，我們就照顧他，這部分請原諒我要比較嚴厲一點，我要看到你們事後排休的順序，好不好？"],["黃處長麗玲：是。"],["王委員定宇：但是如果加班費跟排休還不足以消化這裡，你們有沒有增加一些員額的計畫？"],["黃處長麗玲：員額的部分基本上我們每一年都有招考外交特考，所以我們這次的57期他們如果在7月完成6個月的實務訓練之後，7月15號他們就會分派到各個單位去，來做我們的生力軍。"],["王委員定宇：每年都有生力軍。"],["黃處長麗玲：是。"],["王委員定宇：你們這批生力軍，我們前兩個禮拜才去看而已，希望我們今天的詢答不會讓他減少數量，訓完即離職。好，我跑快一點，這個部分我就沒辦法在這邊討論。","部長或者相關的司長，思考一下外交部有沒有工作減量的方法，我對國軍也是一樣要求，就是說有些paperwork有沒有重複的？有些會不會太官僚體系可以簡化的？這個要花點時間，甚至於是專業的管理人才來思考，就是一個工作透過科技的協助做一次完成5項，現在則是要分5次做，我不知道還有沒有這個啦！這要讓部長至少你離職以前，開始來做處理。","我下面要講的部分是有關外交人員的婚姻狀況，我沒辦法在這邊統計各位現在婚姻狀態如何，不好在這邊問，都是個人隱私。我講一個故事，我上一次去法蘭克福，因為要去立陶宛開會，然後法蘭克福機場出來，剛好要轉機的時間有兩、三個小時，我就在法蘭克福，你們外交的老學長帶我到附近一個廣場，然後坐在那邊，天氣很舒服，陽光灑著，德國廣場都有啤酒，他就說他快退休了，那我說你退休去哪裡，他說不知道，他說他一輩子外交人員，年輕的時候，太太跟著他派外，後來因為教育的需求，所以孩子就留在美國，他就派到另外一個單位，後來就離婚了，他們家4個人大概分據4個國家或3個國家，然後他要退休，我說那你就回臺灣，他說臺灣也找不到親人了，西門町房子也賣了。我不是說每個外交人員最後都這樣子，否則你們這邊嚇得都跑光光了，這是我遇到的案例。我們外交同仁就我一般認識瞭解起來，離婚率偏高，以目前外交部已婚職員最新的統計有900位同仁是已經結婚的，占了人員54%，另外46%大概就是現在站在那邊跑來跑去、比較年輕的；配偶都是外交部的，這900人裡面有108人、54對，占總職員數大概6.5%，我先請教部長，你瞭解外交部同仁離婚率跟社會上比較起來有沒有比較高，還是差不多而已？"],["吳部長釗燮：這個部分我沒有仔細去研究，但是有兩點，第一點就是委員剛剛講到要減輕工作負擔，我到外交部之後，這個是我非常努力的方向，譬如說，用一些現代的科技或者是通訊設備，可以讓一些本來很複雜的事情變得很簡單，也變得很有效率。第二點就是夫妻同館，或者是夫妻在一起服務的這個事情，其實我們外交部的同仁都感受非常深刻，我到外交部之後對於夫妻同館這個事情，我是希望能夠儘量……"],["王委員定宇：後來有開始規劃儘量在同單位服務。"],["吳部長釗燮：沒有錯，我們在場就有夫妻。"],["王委員定宇：除非兩個都很優秀。"],["吳部長釗燮：兩個都很優秀。"],["王委員定宇：除非兩個都很優秀，升到大使級的那就很難派外時同館。"],["吳部長釗燮：對，沒有錯，而且有直屬工作關係的話，這也不太合適，但是夫妻同館，基本上這個是我們鼓勵的方向。"],["王委員定宇：禮賓處處長是我學弟，我那時候去溫哥華看到他的時候，他剛好要派三聖嘛！他就要考慮孩子跟老婆留在加拿大，他要去……"],["吳部長釗燮：對，沒有錯……"],["王委員定宇：這都面臨抉擇，所以我最後提出如果合署辦公、同館辦公，這是一個好的安排，因為工作壓力大，有時候真的不是加班費或者休息時間可以解決，人跟人在共同的場域、有共同的話題、共同的陪伴，這對紓解壓力有幫助。"],["吳部長釗燮：沒有錯。"],["王委員定宇：對家庭維繫也有幫助，這一點是對的，可以往那邊規劃。那派外的話，當然如果他們有職務上的利益，這要有一些利益上的分別管理，但儘量去配合他，我不知道國外的駐館怎麼處理，這部分可以細心來處理。","最後一個是如果他的配偶不是外交人員，你知道我看到女的外交人員派外的時候，坦白講，遇到的困難比男性多，一般先生在臺灣有工作，大概不太願意辭職跟著他到天涯海角，雖然男女平等，但社會的現象是女性比較甘願，他可能本來在銀行工作，辭了就跟著老公到海外去了，他本來是有專長的，他一去變人生地不熟、沒有工作，我們當然有生活補助費嘛！大概1,000塊美金左右，對於另外一半一起派外，如果有工作需求，目前外交部有沒有協助的方案？"],["吳部長釗燮：這個我請人事處長說一下，因為我還沒有處理過……"],["王委員定宇：因為我時間到了，請摘要說一下。"],["黃處長麗玲：跟委員報告，剛剛部長已經有說過，基本上我們一直很鼓勵夫妻同館，對於隨同我們駐外同仁到國外去的話，基本上就是有房租補助費，這些我們尤其是在……"],["王委員定宇：這是生活補助，川裝費那個都有補助。"],["黃處長麗玲：對，尤其是部長在任內的時候有特別針對未成年房租補助費加成，也就是說，我們希望他們能夠家庭團聚。"],["王委員定宇：因為我的時間到了，我只問對於配偶隨同派外，我們在當地的主管能不能幫忙，如果他有工作需求的話，有沒有辦法安排他或者local staff來做一下支援的工作？有沒有可能？"],["黃處長麗玲：這個可能是我們未來要規劃、努力的一點。"],["王委員定宇：因為人不單純是為了錢而存在，有時候工作的成就感也滿重要的，所以部長，這個給你們去規劃一下好不好？"],["吳部長釗燮：這個跟剛剛陳委員所提出來的其實是一致的，我們來考慮。"],["王委員定宇：好，謝謝。"],["吳部長釗燮：謝謝。"],["主席：接下來請徐巧芯委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":104,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-17","speakers":["馬文君","羅美玲","陳永康","王定宇","徐巧芯","洪申翰","沈伯洋","陳冠廷","林楚茵","羅智強","黃仁","林憶君"],"page_start":73,"meetingDate":["2024-05-02"],"gazette_id":"1133801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告「外交部如何構建友善工作環境暨人員心理輔導具體做法」，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1133801_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"152010","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152010","tool":"pyannote","id":"152010-pyannote"},"job_id":"prUokfW5bVpxDQqv","queued_at":"2024-05-31 14:09:32","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 14:09:32","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152010"},{"time":"2024-05-31 14:09:33","msg":"downloading 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\"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 711.681, \"end\": 711.742, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 711.742, \"end\": 711.762, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"慮\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,833 --> 00:00:01,758\n謝謝主席麻煩部長請部長\n\n2\n00:00:09,110 --> 00:00:37,712\n委員老闆不對議員老闆還要在301看到你可能要最久最久議員老闆的時間301是美國301條款嗎301是這個房間很榮幸跟你共事這幾年今天這個題目是在討論我們外交部的同仁的工作狀況其實我們常常在外交委員會探討的都是工作績效面對的競爭國外的情形邀請的訪兵\n\n3\n00:00:38,533 --> 00:00:53,563\n可是在執行這些績效的人其實他們的工作的loading負荷有時候一個機關要運作無兵就沒有將所以今天題目很好那我先\n\n4\n00:00:54,878 --> 00:01:19,508\n根據大法官釋字785號解釋我們公務員服務法及公人員保障法規定要落實扶勤的工時及加班補償相關規範警政單位像我服務的台南市我的選區裡面的派出所就因為要符合這規範把一些派出所合併讓他人多一點這樣輪休的時候不會影響勤務都跟這個大法官解釋是有關係的\n\n5\n00:01:20,788 --> 00:01:48,514\n那這是大法官勢至我們當然要尊重他是憲法這階層那我們在外交上的工作常常會因為對方或服務的對象而定或因為地緣政治或因為國內外政治氛圍來決定那個工作時間跟內容跟場域不是外交部同仁可以預先規劃的我規劃未來三個禮拜工作什麼第四個禮拜我要來度假了很難啊階級越低越難\n\n6\n00:01:49,654 --> 00:02:00,862\n有時候我們最辛苦的管員各位來到這邊做大家都已經到一定level以上了請你回憶你剛從外交學院出去的時候垃圾桶都要倒啊還不只是要做好多好多事情\n\n7\n00:02:01,823 --> 00:02:29,411\n那這樣工作loading重加上全球外交是全球工作有點像國際貿易公司時差的關係所以就導致工作負荷那我前幾個禮拜去河內我就在旁邊觀察我們那些年輕的港元很優秀越南話也很會講跟當地的政府也很能互動他不管忙到多晚接近半夜負責打電報說我負責打電報要趕回住處要發電報那是他的工作\n\n8\n00:02:30,359 --> 00:02:54,175\n而我去看他們在審這一些移工的簽證的時候哇那個人多到我相信有去的委員都有看到那個排到房間坐滿了一直排排排排到外面走廊走廊再回轉一直排排下去而且那是一天兩班其中的一班而已所以是工作loading重那工作的loading重呢我們大概有兩種方式來處理第一個人力的配置所以保長你看齁\n\n9\n00:02:56,145 --> 00:03:21,990\n我們統計了最近從2019年2020年2021年2022年到2023年每一年的辭職的人數退休的人數跟新入職的人數在2023年多一個大概我們跟國際主流國家這個互動的績效出來了所以這個離退人數比較少一點但整個累計過我光算這五年差額41億\n\n10\n00:03:27,908 --> 00:03:41,413\n有關於那個委員稍早講的這些部分那的確是講到我們外交部通人的那個很辛苦的地方比如說有委員到某一個國家去參訪\n\n11\n00:03:42,333 --> 00:04:04,196\n或者是說有那個高層的出訪那甚至是有重要的這個高層的會議那我們的同仁是一定要在會議之後在參訪之後就必須要去寫電報那這個寫電報不是說馬上寫馬上好那這個都需要花時間因此我們同仁的這個工作的這個時間的確是跟其他的單位是不一樣的\n\n12\n00:04:04,776 --> 00:04:31,537\n那我們外交部的同仁也有有很高度的這個使命感就是說我這個一定要很快把它給做好那另外有涉及到一些任務啊任務型的這些工作的話那是以這個任務完成為主那這個也很難去思考到那個很多事情有事前的準備就要花很長時間還有事後的回饋那工作分量中像你說的打電報要花很長時間有時候我們會想到加班費坦白講\n\n13\n00:04:34,677 --> 00:04:54,367\n人是人不是機器,有時候該增加員額要增加員額,否則齁,有那個生命賺那個加班費齁,沒有生命賺錢啦。所以我剛才講,我現在是靠看我們這個人力,我們現在是進來報名考試的人比較少,還是合格的人比較少,為什麼會累計缺額到這個數字出來?這個部分齁,細節的部分我請人事處處長來做說明。\n\n14\n00:04:59,606 --> 00:05:07,410\n跟委員報告一下當委員提到那個工時問題委員我想跟你報告一下就是以前我們駐外機構是沒有加班費也沒有補休可是因為785號解釋的時候我們整個都改變過來了所以我們也讓我們的外管同仁他們要補休尤其是我們責成我們的外管館長當事情告一段落的時候你要安排安排他補休假這都是我們一直要求\n\n15\n00:05:27,259 --> 00:05:49,587\n按照785號解釋還能開始有加班費是開始有重量的工作之後的補修這些有沒有管考表有我們都有你可以不揭露各自的本席要看是我們都有現在辦了一個國際重要會議某個處處我們最近有一個外交任務那後續的排修他有管員多少localstaff有多少他怎麼排修因為\n\n16\n00:05:50,731 --> 00:06:00,487\n我們希望真的落實到需要照顧的人他有辛苦付出我們就要照顧他這部分請原諒我要比較嚴厲一點我要看到你們那個事後排休的這個順序好不好\n\n17\n00:06:02,349 --> 00:06:16,574\n如果加班費跟排休還不足以消化這裡,我們有沒有增加一些原額的計畫?對,那個原額的部分呢,因為我們每一年呢,基本上我們每一年都有招考那個外交特考,所以我們這個這一次的57期他們已經就是完成了,如果在7月完成了6個月的實務訓練之後,我們7月15號他們就會分派到我們的各個單位裡面去,來做我們的生力軍。\n\n18\n00:06:27,717 --> 00:06:56,746\n每年都有生力軍你們這批生力軍我們前兩個禮拜才去看而已希望我們今天的詢答不會讓他減少數量訓完即離職我跑快一點就是這個部分我就沒辦法在這邊討論部長或者我們相關的司長思考一下外交部有沒有工作減量的方法我對國軍也是這樣要求就是說有些paperwork有沒有重複的有些會不會太官僚體系我可以簡化的這個要花點時間甚至於是專業的管理人才來思考\n\n19\n00:06:57,586 --> 00:07:22,637\n一個工作透過科技的協助我做一次完成五項那現在是要分五次做我不知道還有沒有這個啦這個給部長最沒力氣以前這個部分開始來做處理我下面要講這個部分是有關我們外交人員的婚姻狀況我沒辦法在這邊統計各位現在婚姻狀態如何啦這個不好在這邊問都個人領事我講一個故事我上一次去法輪客服那因為要去立陶宛開會\n\n20\n00:07:24,226 --> 00:07:41,502\n然後呢法蘭克福機場出來剛好要轉機的時間有兩三個小時我就坐在法蘭克福那個外交一個你們的老學長帶我到附近一個廣場然後坐在那邊天氣很舒服陽光灑著那你知道德國那種廣場都有啤酒啊\n\n21\n00:07:42,483 --> 00:08:09,689\n他就講說他快退休了我說那退休要去哪裡他說不知道他說他一輩子外交人員年輕的時候太太跟著他派外後來因為教育的需求所以孩子就留在美國他就派到另外一個單位然後他就離婚了孩子也分居他們家四個人大概分居四個國家或三個國家然後他要退休我說那就回台灣他說台灣也找不到親人了西門町那個房子也賣了我不是說每個外交人員最後都這樣子我說你們這邊下的都跑風光\n\n22\n00:08:11,261 --> 00:08:33,923\n這是我遇到案例我們外交同仁就我一般認識了解起來離婚率偏高以目前外交部已婚職員我最新的統計有900位是同仁是已經結婚的佔了我們的人員的54%那個另外46%大概就是現在站在那邊跑來跑去比較年輕的那\n\n23\n00:08:35,165 --> 00:09:00,243\n配偶都是外交部的這900人裡面有108人有54對占總職員數大概6.5%我先請教保長你了解起來我們外交部同仁離婚率跟社會上比較起來有沒有比較高還是差不多而已這個部分我沒有仔細去做研究但是有兩點第一點就是委員剛剛講到說要減輕工作負擔那我到外交部\n\n24\n00:09:00,883 --> 00:09:01,003\n後來開始規劃進行\n\n25\n00:09:28,506 --> 00:09:44,378\n對沒有錯沒有錯我們在場就有夫妻除非兩個都很優秀兩個都很優秀除非兩個都很優秀升到大使級的那就很難派外的都同管而且有直屬工作關係的話這個也不太合適但是夫妻同管基本上這個是我們鼓勵的這個方向\n\n26\n00:09:45,758 --> 00:10:07,745\n我們李斌處處長是我學弟啊我那時候去溫哥華看到他的時候你剛好要去派那個三聖嘛他就要考慮孩子跟老婆要留在加拿大要去所以這個都會面臨抉擇所以我最後就是提出就是如果同署辦公同管辦公這是一個好的因為工作壓力大有時候真的不是加班費或者休息時間\n\n27\n00:10:09,145 --> 00:10:38,087\n人跟人在共同的場域有共同的話題是共同的陪伴這個對紓解壓力有幫助沒有錯對家庭維繫也有幫助這一點是對的可以往那邊規劃那派外的話如果他們是有當然職務上利益不能不能這個要有一些利益上的分別的管理但盡量去配合他我不知道國外的住管怎麼處理這部分可以細心來處理最後一個是如果他的配偶不是外交人員你知道我看到女的外交人員\n\n28\n00:10:38,747 --> 00:11:04,497\n他派外的時候坦白講遇到困難比男性多一般先生在台灣有工作大概不太願意辭職跟在他天涯海角雖然男女平等但社會的現象是女性比較甘願他可能本來在銀行工作就辭了就跟著老公到海外去了他本來是有專長的他也去遍人生地不熟沒有工作那我們當然有生活補助費大概一千萬美金左右\n\n29\n00:11:05,996 --> 00:11:12,067\n對於另外一半一起派外,如果有工作需求,目前外交部有沒有協助的方案?\n\n30\n00:11:20,635 --> 00:11:37,998\n跟委員報告,剛剛部長已經有說過基本上我們一直很鼓勵夫妻同管那對於有隨同跟我們駐外同仁到國外去的話基本上就是有房補費、房租補助費這些我們尤其是在部長在任內的時候有特別針對於未成年的房租補助費的加成也就是說我們希望他們能夠\n\n31\n00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:51,762\n這跟剛剛陳委員所提出來其實是一致的讓我們來考慮\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n833\t1758\t謝謝主席麻煩部長請部長\n9110\t37712\t委員老闆 不對 議員老闆還要在301看到你可能要最久最久議員老闆的時間301是美國301條款嗎301是這個房間很榮幸跟你共事這幾年今天這個題目是在討論我們外交部的同仁的工作狀況其實我們常常在外交委員會探討的都是工作績效面對的競爭 國外的情形 邀請的訪兵\n38533\t53563\t可是在執行這些績效的人其實他們的工作的loading負荷有時候一個機關要運作無兵就沒有將所以今天題目很好那我先\n54878\t79508\t根據大法官釋字785號解釋我們公務員服務法及公人員保障法規定要落實扶勤的工時及加班補償相關規範警政單位像我服務的台南市我的選區裡面的派出所就因為要符合這規範把一些派出所合併讓他人多一點這樣輪休的時候不會影響勤務都跟這個大法官解釋是有關係的\n80788\t108514\t那這是大法官勢至我們當然要尊重他是憲法這階層那我們在外交上的工作常常會因為對方或服務的對象而定或因為地緣政治或因為國內外政治氛圍來決定那個工作時間跟內容跟場域不是外交部同仁可以預先規劃的我規劃未來三個禮拜工作什麼第四個禮拜我要來度假了很難啊階級越低越難\n109654\t120862\t有時候我們最辛苦的管員各位來到這邊做大家都已經到一定level以上了請你回憶你剛從外交學院出去的時候垃圾桶都要倒啊還不只是要做好多好多事情\n121823\t149411\t那這樣工作loading重加上全球外交是全球工作有點像國際貿易公司時差的關係所以就導致工作負荷那我前幾個禮拜去河內我就在旁邊觀察我們那些年輕的港元很優秀越南話也很會講跟當地的政府也很能互動他不管忙到多晚接近半夜負責打電報說我負責打電報要趕回住處要發電報那是他的工作\n150359\t174175\t而我去看他們在審這一些移工的簽證的時候哇那個人多到我相信有去的委員都有看到那個排到房間坐滿了一直排排排排到外面走廊走廊再回轉一直排排下去而且那是一天兩班其中的一班而已所以是工作loading重那工作的loading重呢我們大概有兩種方式來處理第一個人力的配置所以保長你看齁\n176145\t201990\t我們統計了最近從2019年2020年2021年2022年到2023年每一年的辭職的人數退休的人數跟新入職的人數在2023年多一個大概我們跟國際主流國家這個互動的績效出來了所以這個離退人數比較少一點但整個累計過我光算這五年差額41億\n207908\t221413\t有關於那個委員稍早講的這些部分那的確是講到我們外交部通人的那個很辛苦的地方比如說有委員到某一個國家去參訪\n222333\t244196\t或者是說有那個高層的出訪那甚至是有重要的這個高層的會議那我們的同仁是一定要在會議之後在參訪之後就必須要去寫電報那這個寫電報不是說馬上寫馬上好那這個都需要花時間因此我們同仁的這個工作的這個時間的確是跟其他的單位是不一樣的\n244776\t271537\t那我們外交部的同仁也有有很高度的這個使命感就是說我這個一定要很快把它給做好那另外有涉及到一些任務啊任務型的這些工作的話那是以這個任務完成為主那這個也很難去思考到那個很多事情有事前的準備就要花很長時間還有事後的回饋那工作分量中像你說的打電報要花很長時間有時候我們會想到加班費坦白講\n274677\t294367\t人是人不是機器,有時候該增加員額要增加員額,否則齁,有那個生命賺那個加班費齁,沒有生命賺錢啦。所以我剛才講,我現在是靠看我們這個人力,我們現在是進來報名考試的人比較少,還是合格的人比較少,為什麼會累計缺額到這個數字出來?這個部分齁,細節的部分我請人事處處長來做說明。\n299606\t307410\t跟委員報告一下當委員提到那個工時問題委員我想跟你報告一下就是以前我們駐外機構是沒有加班費也沒有補休可是因為785號解釋的時候我們整個都改變過來了所以我們也讓我們的外管同仁他們要補休尤其是我們責成我們的外管館長當事情告一段落的時候你要安排安排他補休假這都是我們一直要求\n327259\t349587\t按照785號解釋還能開始有加班費是開始有重量的工作之後的補修這些有沒有管考表有我們都有你可以不揭露各自的本席要看是我們都有現在辦了一個國際重要會議某個處處我們最近有一個外交任務那後續的排修他有管員多少local staff有多少他怎麼排修因為\n350731\t360487\t我們希望真的落實到需要照顧的人他有辛苦付出我們就要照顧他這部分請原諒我要比較嚴厲一點我要看到你們那個事後排休的這個順序好不好\n362349\t376574\t如果加班費跟排休還不足以消化這裡,我們有沒有增加一些原額的計畫?對,那個原額的部分呢,因為我們每一年呢,基本上我們每一年都有招考那個外交特考,所以我們這個這一次的57期他們已經就是完成了,如果在7月完成了6個月的實務訓練之後,我們7月15號他們就會分派到我們的各個單位裡面去,來做我們的生力軍。\n387717\t416746\t每年都有生力軍你們這批生力軍我們前兩個禮拜才去看而已希望我們今天的詢答不會讓他減少數量訓完即離職我跑快一點就是這個部分我就沒辦法在這邊討論部長或者我們相關的司長思考一下外交部有沒有工作減量的方法我對國軍也是這樣要求就是說有些paper work有沒有重複的有些會不會太官僚體系我可以簡化的這個要花點時間甚至於是專業的管理人才來思考\n417586\t442637\t一個工作透過科技的協助我做一次完成五項那現在是要分五次做我不知道還有沒有這個啦這個給部長最沒力氣以前這個部分開始來做處理我下面要講這個部分是有關我們外交人員的婚姻狀況我沒辦法在這邊統計各位現在婚姻狀態如何啦這個不好在這邊問都個人領事我講一個故事我上一次去法輪客服那因為要去立陶宛開會\n444226\t461502\t然後呢法蘭克福機場出來剛好要轉機的時間有兩三個小時我就坐在法蘭克福那個外交一個你們的老學長帶我到附近一個廣場然後坐在那邊天氣很舒服陽光灑著那你知道德國那種廣場都有啤酒啊\n462483\t489689\t他就講說他快退休了我說那退休要去哪裡他說不知道他說他一輩子外交人員年輕的時候太太跟著他派外後來因為教育的需求所以孩子就留在美國他就派到另外一個單位然後他就離婚了孩子也分居他們家四個人大概分居四個國家或三個國家然後他要退休我說那就回台灣他說台灣也找不到親人了西門町那個房子也賣了我不是說每個外交人員最後都這樣子我說你們這邊下的都跑風光\n491261\t513923\t這是我遇到案例我們外交同仁就我一般認識了解起來離婚率偏高以目前外交部已婚職員我最新的統計有900位是同仁是已經結婚的佔了我們的人員的54%那個另外46%大概就是現在站在那邊跑來跑去比較年輕的那\n515165\t540243\t配偶都是外交部的這900人裡面有108人有54對占總職員數大概6.5%我先請教保長你了解起來我們外交部同仁離婚率跟社會上比較起來有沒有比較高還是差不多而已這個部分我沒有仔細去做研究但是有兩點第一點就是委員剛剛講到說要減輕工作負擔那我到外交部\n540883\t541003\t後來開始規劃進行\n568506\t584378\t對沒有錯沒有錯我們在場就有夫妻除非兩個都很優秀兩個都很優秀除非兩個都很優秀升到大使級的那就很難派外的都同管而且有直屬工作關係的話這個也不太合適但是夫妻同管基本上這個是我們鼓勵的這個方向\n585758\t607745\t我們李斌處處長是我學弟啊我那時候去溫哥華看到他的時候你剛好要去派那個三聖嘛他就要考慮孩子跟老婆要留在加拿大要去所以這個都會面臨抉擇所以我最後就是提出就是如果同署辦公同管辦公這是一個好的因為工作壓力大有時候真的不是加班費或者休息時間\n609145\t638087\t人跟人在共同的場域有共同的話題是共同的陪伴這個對紓解壓力有幫助沒有錯對家庭維繫也有幫助這一點是對的可以往那邊規劃那派外的話如果他們是有當然職務上利益不能不能這個要有一些利益上的分別的管理但盡量去配合他我不知道國外的住管怎麼處理這部分可以細心來處理最後一個是如果他的配偶不是外交人員你知道我看到女的外交人員\n638747\t664497\t他派外的時候坦白講遇到困難比男性多一般先生在台灣有工作大概不太願意辭職跟在他天涯海角雖然男女平等但社會的現象是女性比較甘願他可能本來在銀行工作就辭了就跟著老公到海外去了他本來是有專長的他也去遍人生地不熟沒有工作那我們當然有生活補助費大概一千萬美金左右\n665996\t672067\t對於另外一半一起派外,如果有工作需求,目前外交部有沒有協助的方案?\n680635\t697998\t跟委員報告,剛剛部長已經有說過基本上我們一直很鼓勵夫妻同管那對於有隨同跟我們駐外同仁到國外去的話基本上就是有房補費、房租補助費這些我們尤其是在部長在任內的時候有特別針對於未成年的房租補助費的加成也就是說我們希望他們能夠\n709600\t711762\t這跟剛剛陳委員所提出來其實是一致的讓我們來考慮\n739480\t739514\tMING PAO CANADA\n","txt":"謝謝主席麻煩部長請部長\n委員老闆 不對 議員老闆還要在301看到你可能要最久最久議員老闆的時間301是美國301條款嗎301是這個房間很榮幸跟你共事這幾年今天這個題目是在討論我們外交部的同仁的工作狀況其實我們常常在外交委員會探討的都是工作績效面對的競爭 國外的情形 邀請的訪兵\n可是在執行這些績效的人其實他們的工作的loading負荷有時候一個機關要運作無兵就沒有將所以今天題目很好那我先\n根據大法官釋字785號解釋我們公務員服務法及公人員保障法規定要落實扶勤的工時及加班補償相關規範警政單位像我服務的台南市我的選區裡面的派出所就因為要符合這規範把一些派出所合併讓他人多一點這樣輪休的時候不會影響勤務都跟這個大法官解釋是有關係的\n那這是大法官勢至我們當然要尊重他是憲法這階層那我們在外交上的工作常常會因為對方或服務的對象而定或因為地緣政治或因為國內外政治氛圍來決定那個工作時間跟內容跟場域不是外交部同仁可以預先規劃的我規劃未來三個禮拜工作什麼第四個禮拜我要來度假了很難啊階級越低越難\n有時候我們最辛苦的管員各位來到這邊做大家都已經到一定level以上了請你回憶你剛從外交學院出去的時候垃圾桶都要倒啊還不只是要做好多好多事情\n那這樣工作loading重加上全球外交是全球工作有點像國際貿易公司時差的關係所以就導致工作負荷那我前幾個禮拜去河內我就在旁邊觀察我們那些年輕的港元很優秀越南話也很會講跟當地的政府也很能互動他不管忙到多晚接近半夜負責打電報說我負責打電報要趕回住處要發電報那是他的工作\n而我去看他們在審這一些移工的簽證的時候哇那個人多到我相信有去的委員都有看到那個排到房間坐滿了一直排排排排到外面走廊走廊再回轉一直排排下去而且那是一天兩班其中的一班而已所以是工作loading重那工作的loading重呢我們大概有兩種方式來處理第一個人力的配置所以保長你看齁\n我們統計了最近從2019年2020年2021年2022年到2023年每一年的辭職的人數退休的人數跟新入職的人數在2023年多一個大概我們跟國際主流國家這個互動的績效出來了所以這個離退人數比較少一點但整個累計過我光算這五年差額41億\n有關於那個委員稍早講的這些部分那的確是講到我們外交部通人的那個很辛苦的地方比如說有委員到某一個國家去參訪\n或者是說有那個高層的出訪那甚至是有重要的這個高層的會議那我們的同仁是一定要在會議之後在參訪之後就必須要去寫電報那這個寫電報不是說馬上寫馬上好那這個都需要花時間因此我們同仁的這個工作的這個時間的確是跟其他的單位是不一樣的\n那我們外交部的同仁也有有很高度的這個使命感就是說我這個一定要很快把它給做好那另外有涉及到一些任務啊任務型的這些工作的話那是以這個任務完成為主那這個也很難去思考到那個很多事情有事前的準備就要花很長時間還有事後的回饋那工作分量中像你說的打電報要花很長時間有時候我們會想到加班費坦白講\n人是人不是機器,有時候該增加員額要增加員額,否則齁,有那個生命賺那個加班費齁,沒有生命賺錢啦。所以我剛才講,我現在是靠看我們這個人力,我們現在是進來報名考試的人比較少,還是合格的人比較少,為什麼會累計缺額到這個數字出來?這個部分齁,細節的部分我請人事處處長來做說明。\n跟委員報告一下當委員提到那個工時問題委員我想跟你報告一下就是以前我們駐外機構是沒有加班費也沒有補休可是因為785號解釋的時候我們整個都改變過來了所以我們也讓我們的外管同仁他們要補休尤其是我們責成我們的外管館長當事情告一段落的時候你要安排安排他補休假這都是我們一直要求\n按照785號解釋還能開始有加班費是開始有重量的工作之後的補修這些有沒有管考表有我們都有你可以不揭露各自的本席要看是我們都有現在辦了一個國際重要會議某個處處我們最近有一個外交任務那後續的排修他有管員多少local staff有多少他怎麼排修因為\n我們希望真的落實到需要照顧的人他有辛苦付出我們就要照顧他這部分請原諒我要比較嚴厲一點我要看到你們那個事後排休的這個順序好不好\n如果加班費跟排休還不足以消化這裡,我們有沒有增加一些原額的計畫?對,那個原額的部分呢,因為我們每一年呢,基本上我們每一年都有招考那個外交特考,所以我們這個這一次的57期他們已經就是完成了,如果在7月完成了6個月的實務訓練之後,我們7月15號他們就會分派到我們的各個單位裡面去,來做我們的生力軍。\n每年都有生力軍你們這批生力軍我們前兩個禮拜才去看而已希望我們今天的詢答不會讓他減少數量訓完即離職我跑快一點就是這個部分我就沒辦法在這邊討論部長或者我們相關的司長思考一下外交部有沒有工作減量的方法我對國軍也是這樣要求就是說有些paper work有沒有重複的有些會不會太官僚體系我可以簡化的這個要花點時間甚至於是專業的管理人才來思考\n一個工作透過科技的協助我做一次完成五項那現在是要分五次做我不知道還有沒有這個啦這個給部長最沒力氣以前這個部分開始來做處理我下面要講這個部分是有關我們外交人員的婚姻狀況我沒辦法在這邊統計各位現在婚姻狀態如何啦這個不好在這邊問都個人領事我講一個故事我上一次去法輪客服那因為要去立陶宛開會\n然後呢法蘭克福機場出來剛好要轉機的時間有兩三個小時我就坐在法蘭克福那個外交一個你們的老學長帶我到附近一個廣場然後坐在那邊天氣很舒服陽光灑著那你知道德國那種廣場都有啤酒啊\n他就講說他快退休了我說那退休要去哪裡他說不知道他說他一輩子外交人員年輕的時候太太跟著他派外後來因為教育的需求所以孩子就留在美國他就派到另外一個單位然後他就離婚了孩子也分居他們家四個人大概分居四個國家或三個國家然後他要退休我說那就回台灣他說台灣也找不到親人了西門町那個房子也賣了我不是說每個外交人員最後都這樣子我說你們這邊下的都跑風光\n這是我遇到案例我們外交同仁就我一般認識了解起來離婚率偏高以目前外交部已婚職員我最新的統計有900位是同仁是已經結婚的佔了我們的人員的54%那個另外46%大概就是現在站在那邊跑來跑去比較年輕的那\n配偶都是外交部的這900人裡面有108人有54對占總職員數大概6.5%我先請教保長你了解起來我們外交部同仁離婚率跟社會上比較起來有沒有比較高還是差不多而已這個部分我沒有仔細去做研究但是有兩點第一點就是委員剛剛講到說要減輕工作負擔那我到外交部\n後來開始規劃進行\n對沒有錯沒有錯我們在場就有夫妻除非兩個都很優秀兩個都很優秀除非兩個都很優秀升到大使級的那就很難派外的都同管而且有直屬工作關係的話這個也不太合適但是夫妻同管基本上這個是我們鼓勵的這個方向\n我們李斌處處長是我學弟啊我那時候去溫哥華看到他的時候你剛好要去派那個三聖嘛他就要考慮孩子跟老婆要留在加拿大要去所以這個都會面臨抉擇所以我最後就是提出就是如果同署辦公同管辦公這是一個好的因為工作壓力大有時候真的不是加班費或者休息時間\n人跟人在共同的場域有共同的話題是共同的陪伴這個對紓解壓力有幫助沒有錯對家庭維繫也有幫助這一點是對的可以往那邊規劃那派外的話如果他們是有當然職務上利益不能不能這個要有一些利益上的分別的管理但盡量去配合他我不知道國外的住管怎麼處理這部分可以細心來處理最後一個是如果他的配偶不是外交人員你知道我看到女的外交人員\n他派外的時候坦白講遇到困難比男性多一般先生在台灣有工作大概不太願意辭職跟在他天涯海角雖然男女平等但社會的現象是女性比較甘願他可能本來在銀行工作就辭了就跟著老公到海外去了他本來是有專長的他也去遍人生地不熟沒有工作那我們當然有生活補助費大概一千萬美金左右\n對於另外一半一起派外,如果有工作需求,目前外交部有沒有協助的方案?\n跟委員報告,剛剛部長已經有說過基本上我們一直很鼓勵夫妻同管那對於有隨同跟我們駐外同仁到國外去的話基本上就是有房補費、房租補助費這些我們尤其是在部長在任內的時候有特別針對於未成年的房租補助費的加成也就是說我們希望他們能夠\n這跟剛剛陳委員所提出來其實是一致的讓我們來考慮\nMING PAO CANADA\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.833 --> 00:01.758\n謝謝主席麻煩部長請部長\n\n00:09.110 --> 00:37.712\n委員老闆不對議員老闆還要在301看到你可能要最久最久議員老闆的時間301是美國301條款嗎301是這個房間很榮幸跟你共事這幾年今天這個題目是在討論我們外交部的同仁的工作狀況其實我們常常在外交委員會探討的都是工作績效面對的競爭國外的情形邀請的訪兵\n\n00:38.533 --> 00:53.563\n可是在執行這些績效的人其實他們的工作的loading負荷有時候一個機關要運作無兵就沒有將所以今天題目很好那我先\n\n00:54.878 --> 01:19.508\n根據大法官釋字785號解釋我們公務員服務法及公人員保障法規定要落實扶勤的工時及加班補償相關規範警政單位像我服務的台南市我的選區裡面的派出所就因為要符合這規範把一些派出所合併讓他人多一點這樣輪休的時候不會影響勤務都跟這個大法官解釋是有關係的\n\n01:20.788 --> 01:48.514\n那這是大法官勢至我們當然要尊重他是憲法這階層那我們在外交上的工作常常會因為對方或服務的對象而定或因為地緣政治或因為國內外政治氛圍來決定那個工作時間跟內容跟場域不是外交部同仁可以預先規劃的我規劃未來三個禮拜工作什麼第四個禮拜我要來度假了很難啊階級越低越難\n\n01:49.654 --> 02:00.862\n有時候我們最辛苦的管員各位來到這邊做大家都已經到一定level以上了請你回憶你剛從外交學院出去的時候垃圾桶都要倒啊還不只是要做好多好多事情\n\n02:01.823 --> 02:29.411\n那這樣工作loading重加上全球外交是全球工作有點像國際貿易公司時差的關係所以就導致工作負荷那我前幾個禮拜去河內我就在旁邊觀察我們那些年輕的港元很優秀越南話也很會講跟當地的政府也很能互動他不管忙到多晚接近半夜負責打電報說我負責打電報要趕回住處要發電報那是他的工作\n\n02:30.359 --> 02:54.175\n而我去看他們在審這一些移工的簽證的時候哇那個人多到我相信有去的委員都有看到那個排到房間坐滿了一直排排排排到外面走廊走廊再回轉一直排排下去而且那是一天兩班其中的一班而已所以是工作loading重那工作的loading重呢我們大概有兩種方式來處理第一個人力的配置所以保長你看齁\n\n02:56.145 --> 03:21.990\n我們統計了最近從2019年2020年2021年2022年到2023年每一年的辭職的人數退休的人數跟新入職的人數在2023年多一個大概我們跟國際主流國家這個互動的績效出來了所以這個離退人數比較少一點但整個累計過我光算這五年差額41億\n\n03:27.908 --> 03:41.413\n有關於那個委員稍早講的這些部分那的確是講到我們外交部通人的那個很辛苦的地方比如說有委員到某一個國家去參訪\n\n03:42.333 --> 04:04.196\n或者是說有那個高層的出訪那甚至是有重要的這個高層的會議那我們的同仁是一定要在會議之後在參訪之後就必須要去寫電報那這個寫電報不是說馬上寫馬上好那這個都需要花時間因此我們同仁的這個工作的這個時間的確是跟其他的單位是不一樣的\n\n04:04.776 --> 04:31.537\n那我們外交部的同仁也有有很高度的這個使命感就是說我這個一定要很快把它給做好那另外有涉及到一些任務啊任務型的這些工作的話那是以這個任務完成為主那這個也很難去思考到那個很多事情有事前的準備就要花很長時間還有事後的回饋那工作分量中像你說的打電報要花很長時間有時候我們會想到加班費坦白講\n\n04:34.677 --> 04:54.367\n人是人不是機器,有時候該增加員額要增加員額,否則齁,有那個生命賺那個加班費齁,沒有生命賺錢啦。所以我剛才講,我現在是靠看我們這個人力,我們現在是進來報名考試的人比較少,還是合格的人比較少,為什麼會累計缺額到這個數字出來?這個部分齁,細節的部分我請人事處處長來做說明。\n\n04:59.606 --> 05:07.410\n跟委員報告一下當委員提到那個工時問題委員我想跟你報告一下就是以前我們駐外機構是沒有加班費也沒有補休可是因為785號解釋的時候我們整個都改變過來了所以我們也讓我們的外管同仁他們要補休尤其是我們責成我們的外管館長當事情告一段落的時候你要安排安排他補休假這都是我們一直要求\n\n05:27.259 --> 05:49.587\n按照785號解釋還能開始有加班費是開始有重量的工作之後的補修這些有沒有管考表有我們都有你可以不揭露各自的本席要看是我們都有現在辦了一個國際重要會議某個處處我們最近有一個外交任務那後續的排修他有管員多少localstaff有多少他怎麼排修因為\n\n05:50.731 --> 06:00.487\n我們希望真的落實到需要照顧的人他有辛苦付出我們就要照顧他這部分請原諒我要比較嚴厲一點我要看到你們那個事後排休的這個順序好不好\n\n06:02.349 --> 06:16.574\n如果加班費跟排休還不足以消化這裡,我們有沒有增加一些原額的計畫?對,那個原額的部分呢,因為我們每一年呢,基本上我們每一年都有招考那個外交特考,所以我們這個這一次的57期他們已經就是完成了,如果在7月完成了6個月的實務訓練之後,我們7月15號他們就會分派到我們的各個單位裡面去,來做我們的生力軍。\n\n06:27.717 --> 06:56.746\n每年都有生力軍你們這批生力軍我們前兩個禮拜才去看而已希望我們今天的詢答不會讓他減少數量訓完即離職我跑快一點就是這個部分我就沒辦法在這邊討論部長或者我們相關的司長思考一下外交部有沒有工作減量的方法我對國軍也是這樣要求就是說有些paperwork有沒有重複的有些會不會太官僚體系我可以簡化的這個要花點時間甚至於是專業的管理人才來思考\n\n06:57.586 --> 07:22.637\n一個工作透過科技的協助我做一次完成五項那現在是要分五次做我不知道還有沒有這個啦這個給部長最沒力氣以前這個部分開始來做處理我下面要講這個部分是有關我們外交人員的婚姻狀況我沒辦法在這邊統計各位現在婚姻狀態如何啦這個不好在這邊問都個人領事我講一個故事我上一次去法輪客服那因為要去立陶宛開會\n\n07:24.226 --> 07:41.502\n然後呢法蘭克福機場出來剛好要轉機的時間有兩三個小時我就坐在法蘭克福那個外交一個你們的老學長帶我到附近一個廣場然後坐在那邊天氣很舒服陽光灑著那你知道德國那種廣場都有啤酒啊\n\n07:42.483 --> 08:09.689\n他就講說他快退休了我說那退休要去哪裡他說不知道他說他一輩子外交人員年輕的時候太太跟著他派外後來因為教育的需求所以孩子就留在美國他就派到另外一個單位然後他就離婚了孩子也分居他們家四個人大概分居四個國家或三個國家然後他要退休我說那就回台灣他說台灣也找不到親人了西門町那個房子也賣了我不是說每個外交人員最後都這樣子我說你們這邊下的都跑風光\n\n08:11.261 --> 08:33.923\n這是我遇到案例我們外交同仁就我一般認識了解起來離婚率偏高以目前外交部已婚職員我最新的統計有900位是同仁是已經結婚的佔了我們的人員的54%那個另外46%大概就是現在站在那邊跑來跑去比較年輕的那\n\n08:35.165 --> 09:00.243\n配偶都是外交部的這900人裡面有108人有54對占總職員數大概6.5%我先請教保長你了解起來我們外交部同仁離婚率跟社會上比較起來有沒有比較高還是差不多而已這個部分我沒有仔細去做研究但是有兩點第一點就是委員剛剛講到說要減輕工作負擔那我到外交部\n\n09:00.883 --> 09:01.003\n後來開始規劃進行\n\n09:28.506 --> 09:44.378\n對沒有錯沒有錯我們在場就有夫妻除非兩個都很優秀兩個都很優秀除非兩個都很優秀升到大使級的那就很難派外的都同管而且有直屬工作關係的話這個也不太合適但是夫妻同管基本上這個是我們鼓勵的這個方向\n\n09:45.758 --> 10:07.745\n我們李斌處處長是我學弟啊我那時候去溫哥華看到他的時候你剛好要去派那個三聖嘛他就要考慮孩子跟老婆要留在加拿大要去所以這個都會面臨抉擇所以我最後就是提出就是如果同署辦公同管辦公這是一個好的因為工作壓力大有時候真的不是加班費或者休息時間\n\n10:09.145 --> 10:38.087\n人跟人在共同的場域有共同的話題是共同的陪伴這個對紓解壓力有幫助沒有錯對家庭維繫也有幫助這一點是對的可以往那邊規劃那派外的話如果他們是有當然職務上利益不能不能這個要有一些利益上的分別的管理但盡量去配合他我不知道國外的住管怎麼處理這部分可以細心來處理最後一個是如果他的配偶不是外交人員你知道我看到女的外交人員\n\n10:38.747 --> 11:04.497\n他派外的時候坦白講遇到困難比男性多一般先生在台灣有工作大概不太願意辭職跟在他天涯海角雖然男女平等但社會的現象是女性比較甘願他可能本來在銀行工作就辭了就跟著老公到海外去了他本來是有專長的他也去遍人生地不熟沒有工作那我們當然有生活補助費大概一千萬美金左右\n\n11:05.996 --> 11:12.067\n對於另外一半一起派外,如果有工作需求,目前外交部有沒有協助的方案?\n\n11:20.635 --> 11:37.998\n跟委員報告,剛剛部長已經有說過基本上我們一直很鼓勵夫妻同管那對於有隨同跟我們駐外同仁到國外去的話基本上就是有房補費、房租補助費這些我們尤其是在部長在任內的時候有特別針對於未成年的房租補助費的加成也就是說我們希望他們能夠\n\n11:49.600 --> 11:51.762\n這跟剛剛陳委員所提出來其實是一致的讓我們來考慮\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.833,"end":1.758,"text":"謝謝主席麻煩部長請部長"},{"start":9.11,"end":37.712,"text":"委員老闆 不對 議員老闆還要在301看到你可能要最久最久議員老闆的時間301是美國301條款嗎301是這個房間很榮幸跟你共事這幾年今天這個題目是在討論我們外交部的同仁的工作狀況其實我們常常在外交委員會探討的都是工作績效面對的競爭 國外的情形 邀請的訪兵"},{"start":38.533,"end":53.563,"text":"可是在執行這些績效的人其實他們的工作的loading負荷有時候一個機關要運作無兵就沒有將所以今天題目很好那我先"},{"start":54.878,"end":79.508,"text":"根據大法官釋字785號解釋我們公務員服務法及公人員保障法規定要落實扶勤的工時及加班補償相關規範警政單位像我服務的台南市我的選區裡面的派出所就因為要符合這規範把一些派出所合併讓他人多一點這樣輪休的時候不會影響勤務都跟這個大法官解釋是有關係的"},{"start":80.788,"end":108.514,"text":"那這是大法官勢至我們當然要尊重他是憲法這階層那我們在外交上的工作常常會因為對方或服務的對象而定或因為地緣政治或因為國內外政治氛圍來決定那個工作時間跟內容跟場域不是外交部同仁可以預先規劃的我規劃未來三個禮拜工作什麼第四個禮拜我要來度假了很難啊階級越低越難"},{"start":109.654,"end":120.862,"text":"有時候我們最辛苦的管員各位來到這邊做大家都已經到一定level以上了請你回憶你剛從外交學院出去的時候垃圾桶都要倒啊還不只是要做好多好多事情"},{"start":121.823,"end":149.411,"text":"那這樣工作loading重加上全球外交是全球工作有點像國際貿易公司時差的關係所以就導致工作負荷那我前幾個禮拜去河內我就在旁邊觀察我們那些年輕的港元很優秀越南話也很會講跟當地的政府也很能互動他不管忙到多晚接近半夜負責打電報說我負責打電報要趕回住處要發電報那是他的工作"},{"start":150.359,"end":174.175,"text":"而我去看他們在審這一些移工的簽證的時候哇那個人多到我相信有去的委員都有看到那個排到房間坐滿了一直排排排排到外面走廊走廊再回轉一直排排下去而且那是一天兩班其中的一班而已所以是工作loading重那工作的loading重呢我們大概有兩種方式來處理第一個人力的配置所以保長你看齁"},{"start":176.145,"end":201.99,"text":"我們統計了最近從2019年2020年2021年2022年到2023年每一年的辭職的人數退休的人數跟新入職的人數在2023年多一個大概我們跟國際主流國家這個互動的績效出來了所以這個離退人數比較少一點但整個累計過我光算這五年差額41億"},{"start":207.908,"end":221.413,"text":"有關於那個委員稍早講的這些部分那的確是講到我們外交部通人的那個很辛苦的地方比如說有委員到某一個國家去參訪"},{"start":222.333,"end":244.196,"text":"或者是說有那個高層的出訪那甚至是有重要的這個高層的會議那我們的同仁是一定要在會議之後在參訪之後就必須要去寫電報那這個寫電報不是說馬上寫馬上好那這個都需要花時間因此我們同仁的這個工作的這個時間的確是跟其他的單位是不一樣的"},{"start":244.776,"end":271.537,"text":"那我們外交部的同仁也有有很高度的這個使命感就是說我這個一定要很快把它給做好那另外有涉及到一些任務啊任務型的這些工作的話那是以這個任務完成為主那這個也很難去思考到那個很多事情有事前的準備就要花很長時間還有事後的回饋那工作分量中像你說的打電報要花很長時間有時候我們會想到加班費坦白講"},{"start":274.677,"end":294.367,"text":"人是人不是機器,有時候該增加員額要增加員額,否則齁,有那個生命賺那個加班費齁,沒有生命賺錢啦。所以我剛才講,我現在是靠看我們這個人力,我們現在是進來報名考試的人比較少,還是合格的人比較少,為什麼會累計缺額到這個數字出來?這個部分齁,細節的部分我請人事處處長來做說明。"},{"start":299.606,"end":307.41,"text":"跟委員報告一下當委員提到那個工時問題委員我想跟你報告一下就是以前我們駐外機構是沒有加班費也沒有補休可是因為785號解釋的時候我們整個都改變過來了所以我們也讓我們的外管同仁他們要補休尤其是我們責成我們的外管館長當事情告一段落的時候你要安排安排他補休假這都是我們一直要求"},{"start":327.259,"end":349.587,"text":"按照785號解釋還能開始有加班費是開始有重量的工作之後的補修這些有沒有管考表有我們都有你可以不揭露各自的本席要看是我們都有現在辦了一個國際重要會議某個處處我們最近有一個外交任務那後續的排修他有管員多少local staff有多少他怎麼排修因為"},{"start":350.731,"end":360.487,"text":"我們希望真的落實到需要照顧的人他有辛苦付出我們就要照顧他這部分請原諒我要比較嚴厲一點我要看到你們那個事後排休的這個順序好不好"},{"start":362.349,"end":376.574,"text":"如果加班費跟排休還不足以消化這裡,我們有沒有增加一些原額的計畫?對,那個原額的部分呢,因為我們每一年呢,基本上我們每一年都有招考那個外交特考,所以我們這個這一次的57期他們已經就是完成了,如果在7月完成了6個月的實務訓練之後,我們7月15號他們就會分派到我們的各個單位裡面去,來做我們的生力軍。"},{"start":387.717,"end":416.746,"text":"每年都有生力軍你們這批生力軍我們前兩個禮拜才去看而已希望我們今天的詢答不會讓他減少數量訓完即離職我跑快一點就是這個部分我就沒辦法在這邊討論部長或者我們相關的司長思考一下外交部有沒有工作減量的方法我對國軍也是這樣要求就是說有些paper work有沒有重複的有些會不會太官僚體系我可以簡化的這個要花點時間甚至於是專業的管理人才來思考"},{"start":417.586,"end":442.637,"text":"一個工作透過科技的協助我做一次完成五項那現在是要分五次做我不知道還有沒有這個啦這個給部長最沒力氣以前這個部分開始來做處理我下面要講這個部分是有關我們外交人員的婚姻狀況我沒辦法在這邊統計各位現在婚姻狀態如何啦這個不好在這邊問都個人領事我講一個故事我上一次去法輪客服那因為要去立陶宛開會"},{"start":444.226,"end":461.502,"text":"然後呢法蘭克福機場出來剛好要轉機的時間有兩三個小時我就坐在法蘭克福那個外交一個你們的老學長帶我到附近一個廣場然後坐在那邊天氣很舒服陽光灑著那你知道德國那種廣場都有啤酒啊"},{"start":462.483,"end":489.689,"text":"他就講說他快退休了我說那退休要去哪裡他說不知道他說他一輩子外交人員年輕的時候太太跟著他派外後來因為教育的需求所以孩子就留在美國他就派到另外一個單位然後他就離婚了孩子也分居他們家四個人大概分居四個國家或三個國家然後他要退休我說那就回台灣他說台灣也找不到親人了西門町那個房子也賣了我不是說每個外交人員最後都這樣子我說你們這邊下的都跑風光"},{"start":491.261,"end":513.923,"text":"這是我遇到案例我們外交同仁就我一般認識了解起來離婚率偏高以目前外交部已婚職員我最新的統計有900位是同仁是已經結婚的佔了我們的人員的54%那個另外46%大概就是現在站在那邊跑來跑去比較年輕的那"},{"start":515.165,"end":540.243,"text":"配偶都是外交部的這900人裡面有108人有54對占總職員數大概6.5%我先請教保長你了解起來我們外交部同仁離婚率跟社會上比較起來有沒有比較高還是差不多而已這個部分我沒有仔細去做研究但是有兩點第一點就是委員剛剛講到說要減輕工作負擔那我到外交部"},{"start":540.883,"end":541.003,"text":"後來開始規劃進行"},{"start":568.506,"end":584.378,"text":"對沒有錯沒有錯我們在場就有夫妻除非兩個都很優秀兩個都很優秀除非兩個都很優秀升到大使級的那就很難派外的都同管而且有直屬工作關係的話這個也不太合適但是夫妻同管基本上這個是我們鼓勵的這個方向"},{"start":585.758,"end":607.745,"text":"我們李斌處處長是我學弟啊我那時候去溫哥華看到他的時候你剛好要去派那個三聖嘛他就要考慮孩子跟老婆要留在加拿大要去所以這個都會面臨抉擇所以我最後就是提出就是如果同署辦公同管辦公這是一個好的因為工作壓力大有時候真的不是加班費或者休息時間"},{"start":609.145,"end":638.087,"text":"人跟人在共同的場域有共同的話題是共同的陪伴這個對紓解壓力有幫助沒有錯對家庭維繫也有幫助這一點是對的可以往那邊規劃那派外的話如果他們是有當然職務上利益不能不能這個要有一些利益上的分別的管理但盡量去配合他我不知道國外的住管怎麼處理這部分可以細心來處理最後一個是如果他的配偶不是外交人員你知道我看到女的外交人員"},{"start":638.747,"end":664.497,"text":"他派外的時候坦白講遇到困難比男性多一般先生在台灣有工作大概不太願意辭職跟在他天涯海角雖然男女平等但社會的現象是女性比較甘願他可能本來在銀行工作就辭了就跟著老公到海外去了他本來是有專長的他也去遍人生地不熟沒有工作那我們當然有生活補助費大概一千萬美金左右"},{"start":665.996,"end":672.067,"text":"對於另外一半一起派外,如果有工作需求,目前外交部有沒有協助的方案?"},{"start":680.635,"end":697.998,"text":"跟委員報告,剛剛部長已經有說過基本上我們一直很鼓勵夫妻同管那對於有隨同跟我們駐外同仁到國外去的話基本上就是有房補費、房租補助費這些我們尤其是在部長在任內的時候有特別針對於未成年的房租補助費的加成也就是說我們希望他們能夠"},{"start":709.6,"end":711.762,"text":"這跟剛剛陳委員所提出來其實是一致的讓我們來考慮"},{"start":739.48,"end":739.514,"text":"MING PAO CANADA"}]}}}}