{"id":152016,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152016","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6f015fe8e6787db1677643b04cb2c89b0cbbe991ada1931c55be169921a0a717cc0bfe413a39fb5b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"柯志恩","委員發言時間":"09:42:35 - 09:53:30","影片長度":"00:10:55","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部列席就「『偏遠地區學校教育發展條例』施行迄今之成效及檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查(一)委員柯志恩等18人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案」案。(二)委員魯明哲等24人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第十六條條文修正草案」案。(三)委員馬文君等17人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第十六條及第十九條條文修正草案」案。(四)委員盧縣一等20人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條、第十二條及第二十一條條文修正草案」案。\n(僅進行詢答)【4月29日及5月2日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-02","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-10"},"duration":655,"end_time":"2024-05-02T09:53:30+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-02T09:42:35+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":218,"blocks":[["柯委員志恩：（9時42分）謝謝主席，我們請潘部長。"],["主席：請部長備質詢，謝謝。"],["潘部長文忠：召委好。"],["柯委員志恩：部長，從106年底，我們在第9屆應該是一起參與這個條例的修訂嘛！"],["潘部長文忠：是。"],["柯委員志恩：所以我想代表教育部對偏鄉教育是相當的重視，我看到你們投入資源、穩定師資，也縮短了一些城鄉的差距，所以到底實施6年半來，你覺得成效是如何？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，如果從師資的流動性，因為那是偏鄉最核心的大問題啦！目前來看，久任大概差不多有8千500位，應該是表示他留了將近8年；另外，流動率也確實從實施前到實施後有減少。"],["柯委員志恩：我們就來看看流動率好了，的確是像你所說的有所進步，你看從107年到112年，大概是降到1.21%嘛！但是跟全國的流動率比起來，我說實在的，偏鄉還是有很大的進步空間，因為這個師資的問題還是沒有解決。特別是我常常去偏鄉看那些實習老師，他們常常說對於孩子來說，最大的問題就是你不管是三招、四招，很多的老師留不住，孩子就是不斷地沒有辦法把他的情緒投射在這個老師身上，因為他不知道什麼時候這個老師又會離開，這對孩子來說是精神上、心理上非常大的障礙，我覺得這是很重要。","還有我們特別來看一些統計，我們今天討論的偏鄉，各位看一下，偏鄉前5名的縣市就是臺東、花蓮、嘉義、南投跟雲林，然後他們的偏鄉比率，全臺偏鄉比率大概31%，你看這5個縣市占據這麼大，而且最重要是合格代理老師的比率只有12.5%，這對我們來說的話，整個的師資結構上面是有非常大的一個問題。如果你有看到去年9月聯合報對於偏鄉教育的調查，校長當然認為我們修的這部專法對他們的硬體跟數位是有一些幫助，但是72%的校長認為招生還是最大的一個挑戰，然後他們認為這部法對於招聘老師來說，沒有太大的幫助，所以反而變成是一個華麗的空城。我們來看一下，的確你看！偏鄉教育的專法，我們施行了六年半，我也是修法的一個代表者，到底有沒有辦法抵擋少子化的強風，我們是不是要做更前瞻的評估？我們看下面的一個數據，你看，就我們目前來說，少子化是不可逆，但是你看我們屏東，113年起停辦了三間國小；雲林今年小一的新生入學，有三個學校只有一個人來報到，所以關於這個部分，大家在修這個法的時候都很清楚知道，學校到底能不能夠廢，每個委員那時候就有很多不同的想法，學校就是一個社區的中心，但是當這個社區已經凋零，目前都沒有任何人的時候，學校的存在率是不是需要？所以這需要一個很好的配套。請問教育部，目前可以做的部分到底在哪裡？"],["潘部長文忠：召委剛才所提的，我必須坦白說，這個發展條例確實沒有辦法對應少子化的衝擊、學校的存續啦，因為學校的學生就是來自於家庭，現在越偏人口越少，這個是一個……"],["柯委員志恩：不可逆的！所以我們對於廢校這個部分，當學校都只剩下一個到兩個的學生時，教育部的態度會是什麼？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，我要這樣講，因為我們用一個比較嚴格的程序去要求地方政府，包含到現在，還有一所縣市的學校我們還沒辦法去幫它核定，就是如果這些配套，包含學生的交通……"],["柯委員志恩：所以我才要求能夠更細緻。"],["潘部長文忠：是。"],["柯委員志恩：部長，我等一下會給你發言機會，我們一一來看嘛！這個是一般性，這可能是比較偏的數據，你對於偏鄉有沒有可以做得更好？我們先來看看雙語教育，每個學校都掛上了「雙語教育」的招牌，然後偏鄉老師都一招、二招，我現在是講英文老師喔！目前我們都放寬到大學畢業就可以，你看去年，你大概還知道吧？南橫的、臺東的霧鹿國小，校長經過五招還找不到所謂的英文老師，他只好上網公告，好不容易可以找到。但是你可以看看，我們投資了這麼多，所謂的雙語學校，過去只有328校，到目前為止，已經兩千多校，已經達到六成了，但是偏鄉的合格老師到底在哪裡？太少、太少，根本找不到！所以你看，偏遠地區的英文會考「待加強」的比例，連續3年都超過50%，部長就可以知道城鄉差距有多麼大，城市的小孩還可以去補習，我們偏鄉孩子連找個英文老師都找不到，這是有關於英文的問題。部長，所以雙語教育不要忘了，而且100億的雙語預算，我必須要說聘用外籍老師是占最多，高達三成，但是偏鄉如何呢？只有4.56億，100億當中只有4.56億，只有4%，不到5%，這是導致我們的英語落差非常重要的緣故，所以不是剛剛流動率的問題，還有包括英文老師的問題，這都是偏鄉所呈現的。等一下部長綜合回答。","另外，包括我們剛剛說的「生生有平板」，你們的確給了很多的學生有這樣子一個所謂好的硬體條件，2022年到2025年，4年要投入200億，然後你們買了61萬台Apple的iPad，還有包括充電車，送給近四千所的學校，但是你會發現教育部還有一個政策，竟然要求開機率必須要達到60%，如果沒有達到60%，這些老師可能就要被檢討，用60%這個數據，對我來說，就是一個形式主義。部長，開機率到底做給誰看？所以即使有這些硬體的設備，但是對不起！很多時候，你會發現網路速度不夠快，而很多學生自學，結果發現學生自學的時候，都不是在看所謂的教學影片，而且老師很習慣用傳統的方法，所以授課意願是非常低的，在這個原則之下，我實在很擔心5年後，我們是不是又要再汰舊換新，是否要再花200億給我們這些小孩？可是小孩整體使用數位教育並沒有辦法提升，會不會有這個問題？就雙語跟數位來說。"],["潘部長文忠：好，我簡要回應，剛才召委提到雙語學校到兩千多校，這就是我一再對外說，縣市首長不能標速度、標數量，它的師資根本跟不上。"],["柯委員志恩：是！"],["潘部長文忠：所以我們常常會要求縣市，你要有教材、師資才能去做，所以這兩千多所學校，很多縣市的作法，其實我是不認同的，甚至我請國教署還要經常去做糾正，原因在於提計畫就是要把師資帶起來，所以這是一個不好的現象。"],["柯委員志恩：但是我們英文師資的確是非常、非常缺乏。"],["潘部長文忠：所以為什麼我說我們會一一去搭配的意思，教育部核給這個計畫，也會核給師資，甚至有外聘的……"],["柯委員志恩：你的師資就是不到位，因為找不太到啊！"],["潘部長文忠：所以我們不希望縣市沒有師資，就先標「雙語學校」，教育部沒有所謂的雙語學校，我要跟召委報告。"],["柯委員志恩：是，這是很重要的，因為目前每個人都很像競標，我一進去看，發現每個老師教的英文，對不起！那個真的不叫做雙語教育，那個落差太大，這是個很嚴重問題。部長，我說實在的，如果我們連英語師資都是這個樣子，如何告訴我2030還要變成雙語國家？這個東西都是有態度的，這不在我今天討論的範圍……"],["潘部長文忠：對，我是跟召委報告剛才那個數據。第二個是有關「生生有平板」這個部分，所謂的開機率，其實這個不是只要求學校，我們是幫助學生，尤其在偏鄉，是一個學生就有一部，如果學校有碰到師資的困難，我們都還有一個輔導的計畫，但是不應該把這樣的載具完全放在倉庫不用，我覺得這才是浪費資源。"],["柯委員志恩：我覺得教育部不要每一次都是講這些數字，像剛剛洪孟楷委員講的有關校服的問題，我兒子現在30歲，他以前念龍安國小，從頭到尾都沒有在穿校服了，也不會有你剛剛說的那些問題。所以教育部不要每一次在給予的條文、對外宣布的訊息上面，造成人家的誤解，很多時候你實際上就是做這些事情，就像你剛剛說60%，難怪很多人就會跳腳嘛！這個開機率不代表是不是真的符合所謂數位教育的原則，所以教育部每次對外所發布的訊息，我覺得真的要非常的審慎。","最後，我請主席給我最後一分鐘，這是牽涉到高雄的部分，你看陽明交大，據說要在高雄設分部，而且最快114年就可以招生，這到底是真的還是假的？目前到底進度是怎麼樣？"],["潘部長文忠：我跟召委報告，清大跟陽明交大確實跟高雄市有在做一些合作的計畫，原則上……"],["柯委員志恩：有送到教育部來嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：沒有，高雄……"],["柯委員志恩：兩間學校有沒有送確切的計畫案給教育部？"],["潘部長文忠：它是一個產學合作的……"],["柯委員志恩：所以不需要教育部通過嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：不是，產學合作當然有啊！"],["柯委員志恩：當然要啊！對不對？"],["潘部長文忠：我們不只是針對這兩所學校，高雄市……"],["柯委員志恩：沒有，我說目前進度怎麼樣？"],["潘部長文忠：現在高雄市正在做，因為他們有好幾個產業要在那邊，現在它正在跟行政院爭取一個產業……"],["柯委員志恩：我只是提醒啦！部長，過去學校每次都給地方非常大的期望，能夠帶動地方的高教發展人才，完全是毋庸置疑，我們都非常的支持，我只是提醒，以過去來說，你看你已經知道嘛！臺大的竹北校區，2000年是怎麼樣的方式，2009年只新建一個校舍就無疾而終；臺科大也是；臺南縣政府無條件提供臺南大學一塊七股的校區，到現在為止也沒有任何進展；陽明交大也是，在竹北校區，告訴我們要成立臺灣知識經濟旗艦園區，2001年宣布，到目前為止，因為土地徵收的問題，而沒有進展。所以一個大的方向出來，到最後你看，這是我們所條列出來、整理出來的，我只是提醒部長，這個東西如果要設分部，就很確切地告訴地方，不要讓大家覺得有期待，就像剛剛我所舉的例子，從2000年到現在已經太多學校，空有一個訊息出來，大家非常的雀躍，結果到最後的結果是無疾而終，我只是提醒教育部，真的是要給予他們這樣的一個計畫的時候，請你審慎地評估，給予地方一個最確實的交代，可以嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：好，謝謝召委。"],["柯委員志恩：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，有請部長回座。"],["主席（柯委員志恩）：現在請葛如鈞委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":378,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-10","speakers":["柯志恩","盧縣一","萬美玲","洪孟楷","葛如鈞","吳沛憶","林宜瑾","陳培瑜","葉元之","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","羅廷瑋","張雅琳","吳春城","林倩綺","徐富癸","何欣純","黃仁","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","鍾佳濱","范雲","邱志偉","黃珊珊","劉建國"],"page_start":311,"meetingDate":["2024-05-02"],"gazette_id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三) 委員馬文君等17 人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第十六條及第十九條條文修正草\n案」案、(四)委員盧縣一等20人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條、第十二條及第二十一\n條條文修正草案」案（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"1133901_00005"}},"transcript":{"id":"152016","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152016","tool":"pyannote","id":"152016-pyannote"},"job_id":"mWyG9qIhpbvgJEZy","queued_at":"2024-05-31 14:05:03","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 14:05:03","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152016"},{"time":"2024-05-31 14:05:05","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6f015fe8e6787db1677643b04cb2c89b0cbbe991ada1931ca84068aa5847eb89020e7f4b4ca561565ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-05-31 14:05:27","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-05-31 14:05:28","msg":"running pyannote"},{"time":"2024-05-31 14:05:40","msg":"status: 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\"score\": 0.702}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 651.681, \"end\": 651.701, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"趙\"}, {\"word\": \"薇\", \"start\": 651.701, \"end\": 651.821, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 651.821, \"end\": 651.841, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,011 --> 00:00:10,376\n有請柯志恩召委質詢。\n\n2\n00:00:16,937 --> 00:00:20,561\n施行迄今之成效及檢討：一、邀請教育部列席就«偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案案件》。\n\n3\n00:00:39,400 --> 00:01:00,053\n委員如果從施肢的流動性因為那是偏向最核心的大問題那目前來看不管9任我說大概有將近不到差不多8500位他應該是表示他留了將近8年那另外一個流動率也確實從實施前到實施後有減少那我們就來看看流動率好了\n\n4\n00:01:00,213 --> 00:01:19,608\n的確是像你所說有所進步,你看從107年到112年大概是降到1.21到1.21嘛。但是跟全國的流動率比起來,我說實在的,偏鄉還是有很大的一個進步的一個空間嘛。因為這個師資的問題還是沒有解決,特別是我常常去偏鄉去看這些小孩,看我的十幾老師啊。\n\n5\n00:01:20,529 --> 00:01:41,675\n他們常說對於孩子來說他最大的問題就是你不管是三招四招很多的老師留不住就孩子就是不斷的沒有辦法把他的情緒投射在這個老師身上因為他不知道什麼時候這個老師又會離開這對孩子來說是一個非常大的一個精神上心理上面的一個障礙我覺得這是很重要還有我們特別來去看一些統計我們今天討論的偏鄉各位看一下這偏鄉前五名的縣市就是臺東花蓮嘉義南投跟雲林\n\n6\n00:01:48,837 --> 00:01:54,118\n全台偏鄉比例大約31這五個縣市佔據這麼大而且最重要是他合格的代理老師的比例只有12.5這對我們來說的話整個的師資的結構上面是有一個非常大的一個問題那你如果有看到這個去年九月這個聯合報裡面對於偏鄉教育的調查裡面校長當然認為你們這部的專訪我們說這部專訪當然對他們的硬體跟數位是有一些的幫助但是但是\n\n7\n00:02:18,643 --> 00:02:22,904\n72%的校長認為說招生還是最大的一個挑戰然後呢他們認為招聘老師對於這個這篇法對於招聘老師來說沒有太大的幫助所以反而變成是一個華麗的空城哦那我們來看一下哦的確你看我們到底用這個偏鄉教育法我們執行的六年半我也是一個修法的這樣子的一個一個代表者到底有沒有辦法抵擾少子化的強風\n\n8\n00:02:45,069 --> 00:02:49,336\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會\n\n9\n00:02:57,324 --> 00:03:26,076\n113年裡我們停辦在三間的國小。那雲林今年小一的新生入學有三個學校只有一個人來報到。所以我們提示除了這個部分,我們大家都在修這個法的時候都很清楚知道嘛,學校到底不能夠廢,每個委員那時候就有很多不同的想法。學校就是一個社區的一個中心嘛,但是當個社區已經是凋零,目前都沒有任何人的時候,學校的存、存在率是不是需要?所以這需要一個很好的一個配套。請問教育部目前可以做的部分到底在哪裡?\n\n10\n00:03:27,197 --> 00:03:50,618\n章偉剛所提的我一定要必須坦白地說這個發展條例確實沒有辦法去對應說少子化的這個衝擊學校的程序因為學校的學生就是來自於家庭因為現在整個人口越偏人口越少這個是一個不可逆的所以我們對於廢校的這個部分當學校都只剩下一個到兩個時候教育部的態度會是什麼\n\n11\n00:03:51,038 --> 00:03:53,040\n委員我要這樣講因為我們用一個比較嚴格的程序去要求地方政府包含到現在還有一所縣市的學校我們還沒辦法去幫他核定就是說你如果這些配套包含學生的交通是說我才要求能夠更細緻部長我等一下會給你有發言機會我們來一一來去看嘛\n\n12\n00:04:09,454 --> 00:04:09,994\n公佈公佈公佈公佈公佈公佈\n\n13\n00:04:27,626 --> 00:04:41,063\n去年啊你大家還知道嗎那個南橫的那個台東的霧露國小那個校長經過5週還找不到這個所謂的英文老師他只好上網來公告好不容易可以找到但是你會看看我們投注了這麼多所謂的雙語學校過去只有\n\n14\n00:04:43,206 --> 00:04:48,128\n三百二十八到目前為止已經到兩千多已經達到六成了但是我們偏鄉的合格的老師到底在哪裡太少太少根本找不到所以你看我們偏遠地區的英文會考代加強的連續三年都超過百分之五十部長你就可以知道這個城鄉差距有多麼的大城市的小孩還可以去補習我們偏鄉孩子連找個英文老師都找不到那更不要說你看這是有關英文的問題啊部長這個部分\n\n15\n00:05:10,695 --> 00:05:17,841\n所以說呢雙語教育不要忘了而且你看看一百億的雙語的預算我必須要說聘用外籍老師是佔最多中高達三成但是偏鄉如何呢只有4.56億一百億當中只有4.56億只有4%不到5%這是我們英語落差非常重要的緣故所以不是我剛剛的流動率的問題還有包括英文老師的問題這都是幫偏鄉所呈現的好等下部長綜合回答在下面\n\n16\n00:05:37,395 --> 00:05:47,600\n包括我們剛剛說的生生有平板但是呢教育部卻要求你們給的很多的學生的確是有這樣子的一個一個所謂的好的一個硬體的條件你看2000年的時候有你看2022到2025四年投入了200億然後呢你們花了60買了61萬這個Apple的iPad還有包括這個充電車送給近4000所的這個學校但是呢你會發現\n\n17\n00:06:05,288 --> 00:06:12,370\n教育部還有一個政策,竟然要求我們的開機率,對不起,前面一頁,開機率必須要達到60%,如果沒有達到60%的話,這些老師可能就要被檢討。那這個被60%,用這個數據來說,對我來說就是一個形式主義。\n\n18\n00:06:20,433 --> 00:06:38,146\n部長,這開支去到底做給誰看?所以即使有這些硬體的設備,但是對不起,很多時候你會發現網路速度不夠快,然後呢,很多學生自學,就發現學生自學的時候呢,都不是在看所謂的教學影片,而且老師很習慣用傳統的方法,所以授課的意願是非常的低的。\n\n19\n00:06:38,746 --> 00:06:55,380\n所以在這個原則之下面呢我就很擔心五年後是不是我們又要再太舊換新是否要再花200億給我們這些小孩可是小孩在整個的所有的使用的數月的教育並沒有辦法提升會不會有這個問題就雙語跟數位來說我請要回應說剛才召委提到那個雙語學校到2000多校這就是我一再的對外說縣市首長不能標速度數量\n\n20\n00:07:04,747 --> 00:07:05,428\n教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部列席\n\n21\n00:07:34,707 --> 00:07:38,350\n教育部沒有所謂的雙語學校這是很重要的因為目前每個人都要競標然後我一進去看發現每個老師教的英文對不起那個真的是不叫做雙語教育那個落差太大這是個嚴重問題如果部長我說實在的如果我們連英語詩字都是這個樣子我們如何告訴我2030還要變成雙語國家\n\n22\n00:08:03,711 --> 00:08:25,761\n這個東西都是有太多,這不在我今天討論的範圍。這跟召委報告剛才那個數據。第二個是有關平板,深深用平板的這個部分,那個所謂的開具力,其實我們是在提,這個不是只要求學校,我們是說幫尤其偏鄉是一個學生我們有一部,那你如果學校碰到失職的困難,我們都還有一個輔導的計畫,但是不應該把這樣的﹐所以教育部﹐把他完全\n\n23\n00:08:30,703 --> 00:08:34,886\n放在倉庫不用,我覺得這是才讓會資源。我覺得教育部就不要每一次就是講這些數字像剛剛侯孟楷委員講的有關校服的問題我兒子現在30歲他以前念龍安國小從頭到尾都沒有再穿校服了也不會有你剛剛說的那些問題所以教育部不要每一次在給予的條文對外的一個宣布的訊息上面造成人家的誤解很多時候你實際上就是做這些事情\n\n24\n00:08:51,519 --> 00:08:52,299\n發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。\n\n25\n00:09:15,665 --> 00:09:31,952\n我跟您稍微報告那個清大跟遙敏教大確實跟高雄市他們有在做一些合作的計畫那原則上有送到教育部來嗎?兩支學校沒送到確切的計畫案給教育部他是一個產學合作的所以不需要教育部通過嗎?\n\n26\n00:09:33,032 --> 00:09:38,479\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第12屆教育及文化委員會第13屆教育及文化委員會第14屆教育及文化委員會第15屆教育及文化委員會第16屆教育及文化委員會第16屆教育及文化委員會第17屆教育及文化委員會第18屆教育及文化委員會第18屆教育及文化委員會第19屆教育及文化委員會第19屆教育及文化委員會第20屆教育及文化委員會第21屆教育及文化委員會第22屆教育及文化委員會第22屆教育及文化委員會第23屆教育及文化委員會第24�\n\n27\n00:09:47,970 --> 00:09:53,111\n教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案案件。委員柯志恩等24人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件。委員柯志恩等24人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件。委員柯志恩等24人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件。\n\n28\n00:10:14,915 --> 00:10:20,500\n也是在竹北校區要告訴我們要成立臺灣知識經濟旗艦園區2001年宣布到目前為止土地徵收沒有所以一個大的方向出來到最後你看這是我們所調列出來整理出來的我只是提醒部長這個東西如果要設分部就很確切的告訴地方不要讓大家覺得有期待就像剛剛我所舉的例子從2000年到現在已經太多學校\n\n29\n00:10:38,775 --> 00:10:51,841\n公有一個訊息出來大家非常的雀躍結果到最後結果無疾而終我只是提醒教育部在審到真正是要給予他們這樣的一個計畫的時候請你審慎的評估然後給予地方一個最確實的交代可以嗎好謝謝趙薇好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9011\t10376\t有請柯志恩召委質詢。\n16937\t20561\t施行迄今之成效及檢討：一、邀請教育部列席就 «偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案案件》。\n39400\t60053\t委員如果從施肢的流動性因為那是偏向最核心的大問題那目前來看不管9任我說大概有將近不到差不多8500位他應該是表示他留了將近8年那另外一個流動率也確實從實施前到實施後有減少那我們就來看看流動率好了\n60213\t79608\t的確是像你所說有所進步,你看從107年到112年大概是降到1.21到1.21嘛。但是跟全國的流動率比起來,我說實在的,偏鄉還是有很大的一個進步的一個空間嘛。因為這個師資的問題還是沒有解決,特別是我常常去偏鄉去看這些小孩,看我的十幾老師啊。\n80529\t101675\t他們常說對於孩子來說他最大的問題就是你不管是三招四招很多的老師留不住就孩子就是不斷的沒有辦法把他的情緒投射在這個老師身上因為他不知道什麼時候這個老師又會離開這對孩子來說是一個非常大的一個精神上心理上面的一個障礙我覺得這是很重要還有我們特別來去看一些統計我們今天討論的偏鄉各位看一下這偏鄉前五名的縣市就是臺東花蓮嘉義南投跟雲林\n108837\t114118\t全台偏鄉比例大約31這五個縣市佔據這麼大而且最重要是他合格的代理老師的比例只有12.5這對我們來說的話整個的師資的結構上面是有一個非常大的一個問題那你如果有看到這個去年九月這個聯合報裡面對於偏鄉教育的調查裡面校長當然認為你們這部的專訪我們說這部專訪當然對他們的硬體跟數位是有一些的幫助但是但是\n138643\t142904\t72%的校長認為說招生還是最大的一個挑戰然後呢他們認為招聘老師對於這個這篇法對於招聘老師來說沒有太大的幫助所以反而變成是一個華麗的空城哦那我們來看一下哦的確你看我們到底用這個偏鄉教育法我們執行的六年半我也是一個修法的這樣子的一個一個代表者到底有沒有辦法抵擾少子化的強風\n165069\t169336\t教育及文化委員會第11屆第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會\n177324\t206076\t113年裡我們停辦在三間的國小。那雲林今年小一的新生入學有三個學校只有一個人來報到。所以我們提示除了這個部分,我們大家都在修這個法的時候都很清楚知道嘛,學校到底不能夠廢,每個委員那時候就有很多不同的想法。學校就是一個社區的一個中心嘛,但是當個社區已經是凋零,目前都沒有任何人的時候,學校的存、存在率是不是需要?所以這需要一個很好的一個配套。請問教育部目前可以做的部分到底在哪裡?\n207197\t230618\t章偉剛所提的我一定要必須坦白地說這個發展條例確實沒有辦法去對應說少子化的這個衝擊學校的程序因為學校的學生就是來自於家庭因為現在整個人口越偏人口越少這個是一個不可逆的所以我們對於廢校的這個部分當學校都只剩下一個到兩個時候教育部的態度會是什麼\n231038\t233040\t委員我要這樣講因為我們用一個比較嚴格的程序去要求地方政府包含到現在還有一所縣市的學校我們還沒辦法去幫他核定就是說你如果這些配套包含學生的交通是說我才要求能夠更細緻部長我等一下會給你有發言機會我們來一一來去看嘛\n249454\t249994\t公佈公佈公佈公佈公佈公佈\n267626\t281063\t去年啊你大家還知道嗎那個南橫的那個台東的霧露國小那個校長經過5週還找不到這個所謂的英文老師他只好上網來公告好不容易可以找到但是你會看看我們投注了這麼多所謂的雙語學校過去只有\n283206\t288128\t三百二十八到目前為止已經到兩千多已經達到六成了但是我們偏鄉的合格的老師到底在哪裡太少太少根本找不到所以你看我們偏遠地區的英文會考代加強的連續三年都超過百分之五十部長你就可以知道這個城鄉差距有多麼的大城市的小孩還可以去補習我們偏鄉孩子連找個英文老師都找不到那更不要說你看這是有關英文的問題啊部長這個部分\n310695\t317841\t所以說呢雙語教育不要忘了而且你看看一百億的雙語的預算我必須要說聘用外籍老師是佔最多中高達三成但是偏鄉如何呢只有4.56億一百億當中只有4.56億只有4%不到5%這是我們英語落差非常重要的緣故所以不是我剛剛的流動率的問題還有包括英文老師的問題這都是幫偏鄉所呈現的好等下部長綜合回答在下面\n337395\t347600\t包括我們剛剛說的生生有平板但是呢教育部卻要求你們給的很多的學生的確是有這樣子的一個一個所謂的好的一個硬體的條件你看2000年的時候有你看2022到2025四年投入了200億然後呢你們花了60買了61萬這個Apple的iPad還有包括這個充電車送給近4000所的這個學校但是呢你會發現\n365288\t372370\t教育部還有一個政策,竟然要求我們的開機率,對不起,前面一頁,開機率必須要達到60%,如果沒有達到60%的話,這些老師可能就要被檢討。那這個被60%,用這個數據來說,對我來說就是一個形式主義。\n380433\t398146\t部長,這開支去到底做給誰看?所以即使有這些硬體的設備,但是對不起,很多時候你會發現網路速度不夠快,然後呢,很多學生自學,就發現學生自學的時候呢,都不是在看所謂的教學影片,而且老師很習慣用傳統的方法,所以授課的意願是非常的低的。\n398746\t415380\t所以在這個原則之下面呢我就很擔心五年後是不是我們又要再太舊換新是否要再花200億給我們這些小孩可是小孩在整個的所有的使用的數月的教育並沒有辦法提升會不會有這個問題就雙語跟數位來說我請要回應說剛才召委提到那個雙語學校到2000多校這就是我一再的對外說縣市首長不能標速度數量\n424747\t425428\t教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部列席\n454707\t458350\t教育部沒有所謂的雙語學校這是很重要的因為目前每個人都要競標然後我一進去看發現每個老師教的英文對不起那個真的是不叫做雙語教育那個落差太大這是個嚴重問題如果部長我說實在的如果我們連英語詩字都是這個樣子我們如何告訴我2030還要變成雙語國家\n483711\t505761\t這個東西都是有太多,這不在我今天討論的範圍。這跟召委報告剛才那個數據。第二個是有關平板,深深用平板的這個部分,那個所謂的開具力,其實我們是在提,這個不是只要求學校,我們是說幫尤其偏鄉是一個學生我們有一部,那你如果學校碰到失職的困難,我們都還有一個輔導的計畫,但是不應該把這樣的﹐所以教育部﹐把他完全\n510703\t514886\t放在倉庫不用,我覺得這是才讓會資源。我覺得教育部就不要每一次就是講這些數字像剛剛侯孟楷委員講的有關校服的問題我兒子現在30歲他以前念龍安國小從頭到尾都沒有再穿校服了也不會有你剛剛說的那些問題所以教育部不要每一次在給予的條文對外的一個宣布的訊息上面造成人家的誤解很多時候你實際上就是做這些事情\n531519\t532299\t發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。\n555665\t571952\t我跟您稍微報告那個清大跟遙敏教大確實跟高雄市他們有在做一些合作的計畫那原則上有送到教育部來嗎?兩支學校沒送到確切的計畫案給教育部他是一個產學合作的所以不需要教育部通過嗎?\n573032\t578479\t教育及文化委員會第11屆第12屆教育及文化委員會第13屆教育及文化委員會第14屆教育及文化委員會第15屆教育及文化委員會第16屆教育及文化委員會第16屆教育及文化委員會第17屆教育及文化委員會第18屆教育及文化委員會第18屆教育及文化委員會第19屆教育及文化委員會第19屆教育及文化委員會第20屆教育及文化委員會第21屆教育及文化委員會第22屆教育及文化委員會第22屆教育及文化委員會第23屆教育及文化委員會第24�\n587970\t593111\t教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案案件。 委員柯志恩等24人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件。 委員柯志恩等24人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件。 委員柯志恩等24人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件。\n614915\t620500\t也是在竹北校區要告訴我們要成立臺灣知識經濟旗艦園區2001年宣布到目前為止土地徵收沒有所以一個大的方向出來到最後你看這是我們所調列出來整理出來的我只是提醒部長這個東西如果要設分部就很確切的告訴地方不要讓大家覺得有期待就像剛剛我所舉的例子從2000年到現在已經太多學校\n638775\t651841\t公有一個訊息出來大家非常的雀躍結果到最後結果無疾而終我只是提醒教育部在審到真正是要給予他們這樣的一個計畫的時候請你審慎的評估然後給予地方一個最確實的交代可以嗎好 謝謝趙薇好 謝謝\n","txt":"有請柯志恩召委質詢。\n施行迄今之成效及檢討：一、邀請教育部列席就 «偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案案件》。\n委員如果從施肢的流動性因為那是偏向最核心的大問題那目前來看不管9任我說大概有將近不到差不多8500位他應該是表示他留了將近8年那另外一個流動率也確實從實施前到實施後有減少那我們就來看看流動率好了\n的確是像你所說有所進步,你看從107年到112年大概是降到1.21到1.21嘛。但是跟全國的流動率比起來,我說實在的,偏鄉還是有很大的一個進步的一個空間嘛。因為這個師資的問題還是沒有解決,特別是我常常去偏鄉去看這些小孩,看我的十幾老師啊。\n他們常說對於孩子來說他最大的問題就是你不管是三招四招很多的老師留不住就孩子就是不斷的沒有辦法把他的情緒投射在這個老師身上因為他不知道什麼時候這個老師又會離開這對孩子來說是一個非常大的一個精神上心理上面的一個障礙我覺得這是很重要還有我們特別來去看一些統計我們今天討論的偏鄉各位看一下這偏鄉前五名的縣市就是臺東花蓮嘉義南投跟雲林\n全台偏鄉比例大約31這五個縣市佔據這麼大而且最重要是他合格的代理老師的比例只有12.5這對我們來說的話整個的師資的結構上面是有一個非常大的一個問題那你如果有看到這個去年九月這個聯合報裡面對於偏鄉教育的調查裡面校長當然認為你們這部的專訪我們說這部專訪當然對他們的硬體跟數位是有一些的幫助但是但是\n72%的校長認為說招生還是最大的一個挑戰然後呢他們認為招聘老師對於這個這篇法對於招聘老師來說沒有太大的幫助所以反而變成是一個華麗的空城哦那我們來看一下哦的確你看我們到底用這個偏鄉教育法我們執行的六年半我也是一個修法的這樣子的一個一個代表者到底有沒有辦法抵擾少子化的強風\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會\n113年裡我們停辦在三間的國小。那雲林今年小一的新生入學有三個學校只有一個人來報到。所以我們提示除了這個部分,我們大家都在修這個法的時候都很清楚知道嘛,學校到底不能夠廢,每個委員那時候就有很多不同的想法。學校就是一個社區的一個中心嘛,但是當個社區已經是凋零,目前都沒有任何人的時候,學校的存、存在率是不是需要?所以這需要一個很好的一個配套。請問教育部目前可以做的部分到底在哪裡?\n章偉剛所提的我一定要必須坦白地說這個發展條例確實沒有辦法去對應說少子化的這個衝擊學校的程序因為學校的學生就是來自於家庭因為現在整個人口越偏人口越少這個是一個不可逆的所以我們對於廢校的這個部分當學校都只剩下一個到兩個時候教育部的態度會是什麼\n委員我要這樣講因為我們用一個比較嚴格的程序去要求地方政府包含到現在還有一所縣市的學校我們還沒辦法去幫他核定就是說你如果這些配套包含學生的交通是說我才要求能夠更細緻部長我等一下會給你有發言機會我們來一一來去看嘛\n公佈公佈公佈公佈公佈公佈\n去年啊你大家還知道嗎那個南橫的那個台東的霧露國小那個校長經過5週還找不到這個所謂的英文老師他只好上網來公告好不容易可以找到但是你會看看我們投注了這麼多所謂的雙語學校過去只有\n三百二十八到目前為止已經到兩千多已經達到六成了但是我們偏鄉的合格的老師到底在哪裡太少太少根本找不到所以你看我們偏遠地區的英文會考代加強的連續三年都超過百分之五十部長你就可以知道這個城鄉差距有多麼的大城市的小孩還可以去補習我們偏鄉孩子連找個英文老師都找不到那更不要說你看這是有關英文的問題啊部長這個部分\n所以說呢雙語教育不要忘了而且你看看一百億的雙語的預算我必須要說聘用外籍老師是佔最多中高達三成但是偏鄉如何呢只有4.56億一百億當中只有4.56億只有4%不到5%這是我們英語落差非常重要的緣故所以不是我剛剛的流動率的問題還有包括英文老師的問題這都是幫偏鄉所呈現的好等下部長綜合回答在下面\n包括我們剛剛說的生生有平板但是呢教育部卻要求你們給的很多的學生的確是有這樣子的一個一個所謂的好的一個硬體的條件你看2000年的時候有你看2022到2025四年投入了200億然後呢你們花了60買了61萬這個Apple的iPad還有包括這個充電車送給近4000所的這個學校但是呢你會發現\n教育部還有一個政策,竟然要求我們的開機率,對不起,前面一頁,開機率必須要達到60%,如果沒有達到60%的話,這些老師可能就要被檢討。那這個被60%,用這個數據來說,對我來說就是一個形式主義。\n部長,這開支去到底做給誰看?所以即使有這些硬體的設備,但是對不起,很多時候你會發現網路速度不夠快,然後呢,很多學生自學,就發現學生自學的時候呢,都不是在看所謂的教學影片,而且老師很習慣用傳統的方法,所以授課的意願是非常的低的。\n所以在這個原則之下面呢我就很擔心五年後是不是我們又要再太舊換新是否要再花200億給我們這些小孩可是小孩在整個的所有的使用的數月的教育並沒有辦法提升會不會有這個問題就雙語跟數位來說我請要回應說剛才召委提到那個雙語學校到2000多校這就是我一再的對外說縣市首長不能標速度數量\n教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部列席\n教育部沒有所謂的雙語學校這是很重要的因為目前每個人都要競標然後我一進去看發現每個老師教的英文對不起那個真的是不叫做雙語教育那個落差太大這是個嚴重問題如果部長我說實在的如果我們連英語詩字都是這個樣子我們如何告訴我2030還要變成雙語國家\n這個東西都是有太多,這不在我今天討論的範圍。這跟召委報告剛才那個數據。第二個是有關平板,深深用平板的這個部分,那個所謂的開具力,其實我們是在提,這個不是只要求學校,我們是說幫尤其偏鄉是一個學生我們有一部,那你如果學校碰到失職的困難,我們都還有一個輔導的計畫,但是不應該把這樣的﹐所以教育部﹐把他完全\n放在倉庫不用,我覺得這是才讓會資源。我覺得教育部就不要每一次就是講這些數字像剛剛侯孟楷委員講的有關校服的問題我兒子現在30歲他以前念龍安國小從頭到尾都沒有再穿校服了也不會有你剛剛說的那些問題所以教育部不要每一次在給予的條文對外的一個宣布的訊息上面造成人家的誤解很多時候你實際上就是做這些事情\n發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。\n我跟您稍微報告那個清大跟遙敏教大確實跟高雄市他們有在做一些合作的計畫那原則上有送到教育部來嗎?兩支學校沒送到確切的計畫案給教育部他是一個產學合作的所以不需要教育部通過嗎?\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第12屆教育及文化委員會第13屆教育及文化委員會第14屆教育及文化委員會第15屆教育及文化委員會第16屆教育及文化委員會第16屆教育及文化委員會第17屆教育及文化委員會第18屆教育及文化委員會第18屆教育及文化委員會第19屆教育及文化委員會第19屆教育及文化委員會第20屆教育及文化委員會第21屆教育及文化委員會第22屆教育及文化委員會第22屆教育及文化委員會第23屆教育及文化委員會第24�\n教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案案件。 委員柯志恩等24人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件。 委員柯志恩等24人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件。 委員柯志恩等24人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件。\n也是在竹北校區要告訴我們要成立臺灣知識經濟旗艦園區2001年宣布到目前為止土地徵收沒有所以一個大的方向出來到最後你看這是我們所調列出來整理出來的我只是提醒部長這個東西如果要設分部就很確切的告訴地方不要讓大家覺得有期待就像剛剛我所舉的例子從2000年到現在已經太多學校\n公有一個訊息出來大家非常的雀躍結果到最後結果無疾而終我只是提醒教育部在審到真正是要給予他們這樣的一個計畫的時候請你審慎的評估然後給予地方一個最確實的交代可以嗎好 謝謝趙薇好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.011 --> 00:10.376\n有請柯志恩召委質詢。\n\n00:16.937 --> 00:20.561\n施行迄今之成效及檢討：一、邀請教育部列席就«偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案案件》。\n\n00:39.400 --> 01:00.053\n委員如果從施肢的流動性因為那是偏向最核心的大問題那目前來看不管9任我說大概有將近不到差不多8500位他應該是表示他留了將近8年那另外一個流動率也確實從實施前到實施後有減少那我們就來看看流動率好了\n\n01:00.213 --> 01:19.608\n的確是像你所說有所進步,你看從107年到112年大概是降到1.21到1.21嘛。但是跟全國的流動率比起來,我說實在的,偏鄉還是有很大的一個進步的一個空間嘛。因為這個師資的問題還是沒有解決,特別是我常常去偏鄉去看這些小孩,看我的十幾老師啊。\n\n01:20.529 --> 01:41.675\n他們常說對於孩子來說他最大的問題就是你不管是三招四招很多的老師留不住就孩子就是不斷的沒有辦法把他的情緒投射在這個老師身上因為他不知道什麼時候這個老師又會離開這對孩子來說是一個非常大的一個精神上心理上面的一個障礙我覺得這是很重要還有我們特別來去看一些統計我們今天討論的偏鄉各位看一下這偏鄉前五名的縣市就是臺東花蓮嘉義南投跟雲林\n\n01:48.837 --> 01:54.118\n全台偏鄉比例大約31這五個縣市佔據這麼大而且最重要是他合格的代理老師的比例只有12.5這對我們來說的話整個的師資的結構上面是有一個非常大的一個問題那你如果有看到這個去年九月這個聯合報裡面對於偏鄉教育的調查裡面校長當然認為你們這部的專訪我們說這部專訪當然對他們的硬體跟數位是有一些的幫助但是但是\n\n02:18.643 --> 02:22.904\n72%的校長認為說招生還是最大的一個挑戰然後呢他們認為招聘老師對於這個這篇法對於招聘老師來說沒有太大的幫助所以反而變成是一個華麗的空城哦那我們來看一下哦的確你看我們到底用這個偏鄉教育法我們執行的六年半我也是一個修法的這樣子的一個一個代表者到底有沒有辦法抵擾少子化的強風\n\n02:45.069 --> 02:49.336\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會\n\n02:57.324 --> 03:26.076\n113年裡我們停辦在三間的國小。那雲林今年小一的新生入學有三個學校只有一個人來報到。所以我們提示除了這個部分,我們大家都在修這個法的時候都很清楚知道嘛,學校到底不能夠廢,每個委員那時候就有很多不同的想法。學校就是一個社區的一個中心嘛,但是當個社區已經是凋零,目前都沒有任何人的時候,學校的存、存在率是不是需要?所以這需要一個很好的一個配套。請問教育部目前可以做的部分到底在哪裡?\n\n03:27.197 --> 03:50.618\n章偉剛所提的我一定要必須坦白地說這個發展條例確實沒有辦法去對應說少子化的這個衝擊學校的程序因為學校的學生就是來自於家庭因為現在整個人口越偏人口越少這個是一個不可逆的所以我們對於廢校的這個部分當學校都只剩下一個到兩個時候教育部的態度會是什麼\n\n03:51.038 --> 03:53.040\n委員我要這樣講因為我們用一個比較嚴格的程序去要求地方政府包含到現在還有一所縣市的學校我們還沒辦法去幫他核定就是說你如果這些配套包含學生的交通是說我才要求能夠更細緻部長我等一下會給你有發言機會我們來一一來去看嘛\n\n04:09.454 --> 04:09.994\n公佈公佈公佈公佈公佈公佈\n\n04:27.626 --> 04:41.063\n去年啊你大家還知道嗎那個南橫的那個台東的霧露國小那個校長經過5週還找不到這個所謂的英文老師他只好上網來公告好不容易可以找到但是你會看看我們投注了這麼多所謂的雙語學校過去只有\n\n04:43.206 --> 04:48.128\n三百二十八到目前為止已經到兩千多已經達到六成了但是我們偏鄉的合格的老師到底在哪裡太少太少根本找不到所以你看我們偏遠地區的英文會考代加強的連續三年都超過百分之五十部長你就可以知道這個城鄉差距有多麼的大城市的小孩還可以去補習我們偏鄉孩子連找個英文老師都找不到那更不要說你看這是有關英文的問題啊部長這個部分\n\n05:10.695 --> 05:17.841\n所以說呢雙語教育不要忘了而且你看看一百億的雙語的預算我必須要說聘用外籍老師是佔最多中高達三成但是偏鄉如何呢只有4.56億一百億當中只有4.56億只有4%不到5%這是我們英語落差非常重要的緣故所以不是我剛剛的流動率的問題還有包括英文老師的問題這都是幫偏鄉所呈現的好等下部長綜合回答在下面\n\n05:37.395 --> 05:47.600\n包括我們剛剛說的生生有平板但是呢教育部卻要求你們給的很多的學生的確是有這樣子的一個一個所謂的好的一個硬體的條件你看2000年的時候有你看2022到2025四年投入了200億然後呢你們花了60買了61萬這個Apple的iPad還有包括這個充電車送給近4000所的這個學校但是呢你會發現\n\n06:05.288 --> 06:12.370\n教育部還有一個政策,竟然要求我們的開機率,對不起,前面一頁,開機率必須要達到60%,如果沒有達到60%的話,這些老師可能就要被檢討。那這個被60%,用這個數據來說,對我來說就是一個形式主義。\n\n06:20.433 --> 06:38.146\n部長,這開支去到底做給誰看?所以即使有這些硬體的設備,但是對不起,很多時候你會發現網路速度不夠快,然後呢,很多學生自學,就發現學生自學的時候呢,都不是在看所謂的教學影片,而且老師很習慣用傳統的方法,所以授課的意願是非常的低的。\n\n06:38.746 --> 06:55.380\n所以在這個原則之下面呢我就很擔心五年後是不是我們又要再太舊換新是否要再花200億給我們這些小孩可是小孩在整個的所有的使用的數月的教育並沒有辦法提升會不會有這個問題就雙語跟數位來說我請要回應說剛才召委提到那個雙語學校到2000多校這就是我一再的對外說縣市首長不能標速度數量\n\n07:04.747 --> 07:05.428\n教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部列席\n\n07:34.707 --> 07:38.350\n教育部沒有所謂的雙語學校這是很重要的因為目前每個人都要競標然後我一進去看發現每個老師教的英文對不起那個真的是不叫做雙語教育那個落差太大這是個嚴重問題如果部長我說實在的如果我們連英語詩字都是這個樣子我們如何告訴我2030還要變成雙語國家\n\n08:03.711 --> 08:25.761\n這個東西都是有太多,這不在我今天討論的範圍。這跟召委報告剛才那個數據。第二個是有關平板,深深用平板的這個部分,那個所謂的開具力,其實我們是在提,這個不是只要求學校,我們是說幫尤其偏鄉是一個學生我們有一部,那你如果學校碰到失職的困難,我們都還有一個輔導的計畫,但是不應該把這樣的﹐所以教育部﹐把他完全\n\n08:30.703 --> 08:34.886\n放在倉庫不用,我覺得這是才讓會資源。我覺得教育部就不要每一次就是講這些數字像剛剛侯孟楷委員講的有關校服的問題我兒子現在30歲他以前念龍安國小從頭到尾都沒有再穿校服了也不會有你剛剛說的那些問題所以教育部不要每一次在給予的條文對外的一個宣布的訊息上面造成人家的誤解很多時候你實際上就是做這些事情\n\n08:51.519 --> 08:52.299\n發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。\n\n09:15.665 --> 09:31.952\n我跟您稍微報告那個清大跟遙敏教大確實跟高雄市他們有在做一些合作的計畫那原則上有送到教育部來嗎?兩支學校沒送到確切的計畫案給教育部他是一個產學合作的所以不需要教育部通過嗎?\n\n09:33.032 --> 09:38.479\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第12屆教育及文化委員會第13屆教育及文化委員會第14屆教育及文化委員會第15屆教育及文化委員會第16屆教育及文化委員會第16屆教育及文化委員會第17屆教育及文化委員會第18屆教育及文化委員會第18屆教育及文化委員會第19屆教育及文化委員會第19屆教育及文化委員會第20屆教育及文化委員會第21屆教育及文化委員會第22屆教育及文化委員會第22屆教育及文化委員會第23屆教育及文化委員會第24�\n\n09:47.970 --> 09:53.111\n教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案案件。委員柯志恩等24人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件。委員柯志恩等24人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件。委員柯志恩等24人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件。\n\n10:14.915 --> 10:20.500\n也是在竹北校區要告訴我們要成立臺灣知識經濟旗艦園區2001年宣布到目前為止土地徵收沒有所以一個大的方向出來到最後你看這是我們所調列出來整理出來的我只是提醒部長這個東西如果要設分部就很確切的告訴地方不要讓大家覺得有期待就像剛剛我所舉的例子從2000年到現在已經太多學校\n\n10:38.775 --> 10:51.841\n公有一個訊息出來大家非常的雀躍結果到最後結果無疾而終我只是提醒教育部在審到真正是要給予他們這樣的一個計畫的時候請你審慎的評估然後給予地方一個最確實的交代可以嗎好謝謝趙薇好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.011,"end":10.376,"text":"有請柯志恩召委質詢。"},{"start":16.937,"end":20.561,"text":"施行迄今之成效及檢討：一、邀請教育部列席就 «偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案案件》。"},{"start":39.4,"end":60.053,"text":"委員如果從施肢的流動性因為那是偏向最核心的大問題那目前來看不管9任我說大概有將近不到差不多8500位他應該是表示他留了將近8年那另外一個流動率也確實從實施前到實施後有減少那我們就來看看流動率好了"},{"start":60.213,"end":79.608,"text":"的確是像你所說有所進步,你看從107年到112年大概是降到1.21到1.21嘛。但是跟全國的流動率比起來,我說實在的,偏鄉還是有很大的一個進步的一個空間嘛。因為這個師資的問題還是沒有解決,特別是我常常去偏鄉去看這些小孩,看我的十幾老師啊。"},{"start":80.529,"end":101.675,"text":"他們常說對於孩子來說他最大的問題就是你不管是三招四招很多的老師留不住就孩子就是不斷的沒有辦法把他的情緒投射在這個老師身上因為他不知道什麼時候這個老師又會離開這對孩子來說是一個非常大的一個精神上心理上面的一個障礙我覺得這是很重要還有我們特別來去看一些統計我們今天討論的偏鄉各位看一下這偏鄉前五名的縣市就是臺東花蓮嘉義南投跟雲林"},{"start":108.837,"end":114.118,"text":"全台偏鄉比例大約31這五個縣市佔據這麼大而且最重要是他合格的代理老師的比例只有12.5這對我們來說的話整個的師資的結構上面是有一個非常大的一個問題那你如果有看到這個去年九月這個聯合報裡面對於偏鄉教育的調查裡面校長當然認為你們這部的專訪我們說這部專訪當然對他們的硬體跟數位是有一些的幫助但是但是"},{"start":138.643,"end":142.904,"text":"72%的校長認為說招生還是最大的一個挑戰然後呢他們認為招聘老師對於這個這篇法對於招聘老師來說沒有太大的幫助所以反而變成是一個華麗的空城哦那我們來看一下哦的確你看我們到底用這個偏鄉教育法我們執行的六年半我也是一個修法的這樣子的一個一個代表者到底有沒有辦法抵擾少子化的強風"},{"start":165.069,"end":169.336,"text":"教育及文化委員會第11屆第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會"},{"start":177.324,"end":206.076,"text":"113年裡我們停辦在三間的國小。那雲林今年小一的新生入學有三個學校只有一個人來報到。所以我們提示除了這個部分,我們大家都在修這個法的時候都很清楚知道嘛,學校到底不能夠廢,每個委員那時候就有很多不同的想法。學校就是一個社區的一個中心嘛,但是當個社區已經是凋零,目前都沒有任何人的時候,學校的存、存在率是不是需要?所以這需要一個很好的一個配套。請問教育部目前可以做的部分到底在哪裡?"},{"start":207.197,"end":230.618,"text":"章偉剛所提的我一定要必須坦白地說這個發展條例確實沒有辦法去對應說少子化的這個衝擊學校的程序因為學校的學生就是來自於家庭因為現在整個人口越偏人口越少這個是一個不可逆的所以我們對於廢校的這個部分當學校都只剩下一個到兩個時候教育部的態度會是什麼"},{"start":231.038,"end":233.04,"text":"委員我要這樣講因為我們用一個比較嚴格的程序去要求地方政府包含到現在還有一所縣市的學校我們還沒辦法去幫他核定就是說你如果這些配套包含學生的交通是說我才要求能夠更細緻部長我等一下會給你有發言機會我們來一一來去看嘛"},{"start":249.454,"end":249.994,"text":"公佈公佈公佈公佈公佈公佈"},{"start":267.626,"end":281.063,"text":"去年啊你大家還知道嗎那個南橫的那個台東的霧露國小那個校長經過5週還找不到這個所謂的英文老師他只好上網來公告好不容易可以找到但是你會看看我們投注了這麼多所謂的雙語學校過去只有"},{"start":283.206,"end":288.128,"text":"三百二十八到目前為止已經到兩千多已經達到六成了但是我們偏鄉的合格的老師到底在哪裡太少太少根本找不到所以你看我們偏遠地區的英文會考代加強的連續三年都超過百分之五十部長你就可以知道這個城鄉差距有多麼的大城市的小孩還可以去補習我們偏鄉孩子連找個英文老師都找不到那更不要說你看這是有關英文的問題啊部長這個部分"},{"start":310.695,"end":317.841,"text":"所以說呢雙語教育不要忘了而且你看看一百億的雙語的預算我必須要說聘用外籍老師是佔最多中高達三成但是偏鄉如何呢只有4.56億一百億當中只有4.56億只有4%不到5%這是我們英語落差非常重要的緣故所以不是我剛剛的流動率的問題還有包括英文老師的問題這都是幫偏鄉所呈現的好等下部長綜合回答在下面"},{"start":337.395,"end":347.6,"text":"包括我們剛剛說的生生有平板但是呢教育部卻要求你們給的很多的學生的確是有這樣子的一個一個所謂的好的一個硬體的條件你看2000年的時候有你看2022到2025四年投入了200億然後呢你們花了60買了61萬這個Apple的iPad還有包括這個充電車送給近4000所的這個學校但是呢你會發現"},{"start":365.288,"end":372.37,"text":"教育部還有一個政策,竟然要求我們的開機率,對不起,前面一頁,開機率必須要達到60%,如果沒有達到60%的話,這些老師可能就要被檢討。那這個被60%,用這個數據來說,對我來說就是一個形式主義。"},{"start":380.433,"end":398.146,"text":"部長,這開支去到底做給誰看?所以即使有這些硬體的設備,但是對不起,很多時候你會發現網路速度不夠快,然後呢,很多學生自學,就發現學生自學的時候呢,都不是在看所謂的教學影片,而且老師很習慣用傳統的方法,所以授課的意願是非常的低的。"},{"start":398.746,"end":415.38,"text":"所以在這個原則之下面呢我就很擔心五年後是不是我們又要再太舊換新是否要再花200億給我們這些小孩可是小孩在整個的所有的使用的數月的教育並沒有辦法提升會不會有這個問題就雙語跟數位來說我請要回應說剛才召委提到那個雙語學校到2000多校這就是我一再的對外說縣市首長不能標速度數量"},{"start":424.747,"end":425.428,"text":"教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部列席"},{"start":454.707,"end":458.35,"text":"教育部沒有所謂的雙語學校這是很重要的因為目前每個人都要競標然後我一進去看發現每個老師教的英文對不起那個真的是不叫做雙語教育那個落差太大這是個嚴重問題如果部長我說實在的如果我們連英語詩字都是這個樣子我們如何告訴我2030還要變成雙語國家"},{"start":483.711,"end":505.761,"text":"這個東西都是有太多,這不在我今天討論的範圍。這跟召委報告剛才那個數據。第二個是有關平板,深深用平板的這個部分,那個所謂的開具力,其實我們是在提,這個不是只要求學校,我們是說幫尤其偏鄉是一個學生我們有一部,那你如果學校碰到失職的困難,我們都還有一個輔導的計畫,但是不應該把這樣的﹐所以教育部﹐把他完全"},{"start":510.703,"end":514.886,"text":"放在倉庫不用,我覺得這是才讓會資源。我覺得教育部就不要每一次就是講這些數字像剛剛侯孟楷委員講的有關校服的問題我兒子現在30歲他以前念龍安國小從頭到尾都沒有再穿校服了也不會有你剛剛說的那些問題所以教育部不要每一次在給予的條文對外的一個宣布的訊息上面造成人家的誤解很多時候你實際上就是做這些事情"},{"start":531.519,"end":532.299,"text":"發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":555.665,"end":571.952,"text":"我跟您稍微報告那個清大跟遙敏教大確實跟高雄市他們有在做一些合作的計畫那原則上有送到教育部來嗎?兩支學校沒送到確切的計畫案給教育部他是一個產學合作的所以不需要教育部通過嗎?"},{"start":573.032,"end":578.479,"text":"教育及文化委員會第11屆第12屆教育及文化委員會第13屆教育及文化委員會第14屆教育及文化委員會第15屆教育及文化委員會第16屆教育及文化委員會第16屆教育及文化委員會第17屆教育及文化委員會第18屆教育及文化委員會第18屆教育及文化委員會第19屆教育及文化委員會第19屆教育及文化委員會第20屆教育及文化委員會第21屆教育及文化委員會第22屆教育及文化委員會第22屆教育及文化委員會第23屆教育及文化委員會第24�"},{"start":587.97,"end":593.111,"text":"教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案案件。 委員柯志恩等24人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件。 委員柯志恩等24人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件。 委員柯志恩等24人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件。"},{"start":614.915,"end":620.5,"text":"也是在竹北校區要告訴我們要成立臺灣知識經濟旗艦園區2001年宣布到目前為止土地徵收沒有所以一個大的方向出來到最後你看這是我們所調列出來整理出來的我只是提醒部長這個東西如果要設分部就很確切的告訴地方不要讓大家覺得有期待就像剛剛我所舉的例子從2000年到現在已經太多學校"},{"start":638.775,"end":651.841,"text":"公有一個訊息出來大家非常的雀躍結果到最後結果無疾而終我只是提醒教育部在審到真正是要給予他們這樣的一個計畫的時候請你審慎的評估然後給予地方一個最確實的交代可以嗎好 謝謝趙薇好 謝謝"}]}}}}