{"id":152023,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152023","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6f015fe8e6787db11b09a061fe06cee8d575e50b9cd8685a55be169921a0a71756c01e1ed2fe403d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王育敏","委員發言時間":"09:56:41 - 10:07:05","影片長度":"00:10:24","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、委員王育敏等19人擬具「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員蘇清泉等28人擬具「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」案。\n三、國民黨黨團擬具「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」案。\n【以上議案，如經復議則不予審查】）","date":"2024-05-02","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-14"},"duration":624,"end_time":"2024-05-02T10:07:05+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-02T09:56:41+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":336,"blocks":[["王委員育敏：（9時56分）謝謝主席，是不是請薛部長，還有主計總處的黃專門委員？"],["主席：好，請薛部長，以及主計總處的專門委員。"],["薛部長瑞元：還有健保署的石署長也一起上來。"],["主席：好，石署長。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["王委員育敏：部長，我先請教你一個問題，賴清德總統提出他的競選政見，就是最高目標是健保點值可以用1.1為目標，這件事情他有徵詢過您的意見嗎？當他提出這個政見的時候，相關團隊有徵詢過你的意見嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：在過去我們並沒有對於這一點受到徵詢，不過我想委員可能要做一點調整，它不是1.1元，而是健保點值1點1元。"],["王委員育敏：1點1元？"],["薛部長瑞元：嗯。"],["王委員育敏：健保點值1點1元，好。他沒有徵詢過你的意見嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有。"],["王委員育敏：所以是競選團隊提出來的？"],["薛部長瑞元：是。"],["王委員育敏：所以難怪您在剛剛的答詢之間好像完全否定這項政見，您覺得……"],["薛部長瑞元：我沒有否定……"],["王委員育敏：你沒有否定？"],["薛部長瑞元：我是說在我的任內，我沒有辦法去支持這個。"],["王委員育敏：我剛剛有聽出來你的意思……"],["薛部長瑞元：但是新的……"],["王委員育敏：那可能是未來邱泰源部長要去承擔的。我要請主計總處，剛剛我一直聽到部長說要請主計總處來說明，看起來你們是很不支持。我請教你同樣的問題，賴清德準總統提出來健保點值的目標1點1元的時候，有沒有徵詢過主計總處的意見？"],["黃專門委員厚輯：當然是沒有，因為是總統當候選人時候的政見。"],["王委員育敏：總統的政見。我就請教你，他要來當我們總統了，他要落實他的政見，你們主計總處會支持未來準總統這樣的政見嗎？"],["黃專門委員厚輯：委員，可不可以容我說明一下？基本上目前這個案子是大院提的，依預算法的規定，還有……"],["王委員育敏：你先不用講這部分，我只問你未來總統如果要去落實他的政見，力推健保點值要調高，你們主計總處會配合嗎？"],["黃專門委員厚輯：應該是說要怎麼落實這個政見，其實不一定是由公務預算來處理，當然，我們目前是健保總額制度，原則上如果健保有需求，當然是從總額的額度看是提高或是調高保費來……"],["王委員育敏：我只問你主計總處，如果總統說他的政見就是要推，你們當然是配合，沒有第二句話，不是嗎？我就問你，現在面臨台電的財務虧損，1,000億的補貼就過去了，主計總處有沒有答應？有啊！對不對？就是政策決定你有沒有錢嘛，就是這樣子啊！整個國家的預算大餅是看這個錢要放在哪裡，要不然台電的虧損為什麼要由政府、主計總處答應，1,000億就要過去？合理嗎？照道理來講，是補貼它比較合理，還是來補貼健保？健保還照顧全國所有的民眾，你的政策標準在哪裡？主計總處給錢的標準在哪裡？沒有標準，上面說給誰就給誰，就是這樣子，不是嗎？好，主計總處可以回去了，我看主計總處給錢其實就是這樣子。部長，你沒有看見嗎？事實上是政策可以決定經費可不可以到位，人家台電可以要到1,000億，你健保這邊沒有錢，然後你剛剛說要問主計總處。要去爭取啊！"],["薛部長瑞元：所以在17天之內要去爭取這個，我是做不到。"],["王委員育敏：瞭解，我聽明白你的意思了。但是這件事情不是在於政府有沒有錢的問題，很多時候都是來自於更高層決定這筆錢要往哪個方向去。"],["薛部長瑞元：不過這個也是要看整個財務的狀況。"],["王委員育敏：所以不是用了這筆錢就會影響到社會福利預算，我不同意這樣的看法，而是政府有錢，如果去補貼台電也可以；勞保基金虧損，它不做制度的改革，一直用撥補，1,200億，也有錢啊！就只有你健保沒有錢，健保要個幾百億就沒有錢，這就是國家整體的資源往哪邊擺放的問題。","當然，我也同意制度的改革要合理，兩位都從醫界來，這件事情為什麼醫界反彈聲音這麼大？光去看健保點值這個圖，這樣子上上下下，這是合理的嗎？你現在用的總額制度，健保點值就是浮動式的，這樣是合理的嗎？如果它是合理的，去年、前幾年在疫情這麼艱困的情況底下，政府就不會再撥補進去，因為它有不合理的地方，就是當需要醫療量能提高的時候，用一個總額的制度就顯然非常地不合理，是做越多賠越多，沒有這樣子的道理。","我覺得剛剛部長你講得很好，我們要珍惜整體的健保制度，但是請記得，不要「又要馬兒好，又要馬兒不吃草」，天底下沒有這樣的事情……"],["薛部長瑞元：這是當然。"],["王委員育敏：我們希望最專業的醫療人員在第一線的崗位上面守護國人的健康及安全，但是另外一方面，我們應該提供他們合理、健全的醫療保障制度，我覺得這是我們應該要去追求的。所以合理的改革是我們應該要去討論的，而不是用這樣子的方式說因為這樣子，健保可能會倒，我覺得也不要用這樣子的話語……"],["薛部長瑞元：這個是事實。"],["王委員育敏：而是應該指出來，我們如果要這樣調的話，所有搭配的制度……我很遺憾，可能部長要離開了，所以你沒有提出完整的報告。你應該要提出A、B方案，說明如果我們想要這樣子去調高，譬如至少是0.95，你看看這條線，差不多是在0.95左右，如果要變成至少0.95這樣的方式，其他應該要搭配進來的方案是什麼，包括政府要求主計總處固定撥補進來的金額變成也要常態化，然後接下來才是討論健保費要不要調漲的問題，我覺得談事情應該要這樣子談。所以這件事情我覺得沒有什麼是非對錯的問題，而是遇到問題了，醫界有反映，我們來共同解決，至於解決的方案，作為衛福部，應該提出你們認為可行的幾個方案，這樣來討論比較有意義。"],["薛部長瑞元：跟委員報告，它跟台電的補貼是不一樣的，台電補貼是一次性……"],["王委員育敏：你怎麼確定是一次性？它現在……"],["薛部長瑞元：它並沒有講說每年，但是如果這個案子下去的話，如果通過的話，就是每年，就是必須是每年。"],["王委員育敏：你認為我們政府財政做不到嗎？我們現在每一年多出來的稅有多少，你知道嗎？幾千億耶！"],["薛部長瑞元：對，那個是最近這幾年因為我們的經濟情況好，出口……"],["王委員育敏：已經超徵稅額，都是幾千億，為什麼不能優先來改善這部分呢？"],["薛部長瑞元：如果是只有一次性的，可能問題會比較小，但是健保法第六十二條的修正如果過的話，是每年。"],["王委員育敏：是。"],["薛部長瑞元：是每年，而且這個規模會每年越來越大。"],["王委員育敏：你可以搭配其他的方案進來，你懂我的意思嗎？為什麼沒有其他的方案？你剛剛會講，然後講到這個，所以我覺得你好像是完全反對這樣的調整方向。"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有，我只是提出警告。我之前也報告過，我剩下17天……"],["王委員育敏：我知道、我知道。"],["薛部長瑞元：我沒有辦法去預測未來會怎麼樣做。"],["王委員育敏：因為賴總統也沒有先來徵詢你的意見，然後他就這樣子丟出來了，所以你提出這樣一個警告，但是我覺得這一個方案是醫界已經反映多次的，而且一直在反映，那你看看我們的健保點值一直是浮動式的，坦白講也有它不合理的地方，所以……"],["薛部長瑞元：其中包括疫情期間，所以這個計算有點不太合理。"],["王委員育敏：其實應該要好好的來討論到底怎麼樣來檢討。我們有一個共識，全民健保很好，這是臺灣的驕傲，但是全民健保也不能建構在壓榨第一線醫護人員，讓他們過勞或血汗，這個我們也是不同意，就是合理的讓臺灣的醫護可以很驕傲，加上這個健保制度，這是政府應該窮盡一切方法去做，該改革的時候，該調整的時候，我們應該一起來思考。石署長，你也講一句話吧，您現在是中央健保署署長，你長期也都在衛福部，應該很知道醫界的心聲，你作為一個署長，你認為未來這個改革可以朝什麼方向前進？"],["石署長崇良：跟委員報告，確實點值上有改善的空間，那在策略上當然一方面是在總額的成長上要有一個適當的調整，按照我們現在健保法的設計，是以「支」來算「收」，所以先討論提供民眾的服務到哪個範圍，然後再回過頭來籌措財源。在上週的健康台灣論壇裡面，大家也提出了健保多元財源的一些方案，我們也都會一個一個很仔細的來研究，設法為健保創造更多的財源。"],["王委員育敏：好，你會繼續擔任署長吧？你有沒有被告知？"],["石署長崇良：我目前是事務官，所以我都聽從長官的安排。"],["王委員育敏：好，我希望你用這樣的態度持續去研議，找出一套方法真的可以改善醫界現在的困境，又讓健保可以永續，一個雙贏的方法，我們一起來為這個制度的改革努力，謝謝。"],["主席（王委員育敏）：好，謝謝。","請邱鎮軍委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":242,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-14","speakers":["王育敏","蘇清泉","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","黃秀芳","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","廖偉翔","劉建國","王正旭","林淑芬","林德福","賴士葆","李彥秀","盧縣一","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","賴惠員","陳瑩","楊曜"],"page_start":167,"meetingDate":["2024-05-02"],"gazette_id":"1133901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133901_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員王育敏等18人擬具「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」案；二、委員蘇清\n泉等27人擬具「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」案；三、國民黨黨團擬具「全民健康\n保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133901_00003"}},"transcript":{"id":"152023","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152023","tool":"pyannote","id":"152023-pyannote"},"job_id":"rfJBkUc7xZIfc3d5","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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0.0}, {\"word\": \"﹗\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:01,190\n好,謝謝主席我們是不是請薛部長還有我們主計處的黃專門委員好,請我們薛部長以及主計處的還有健保署的石署長也一起上來好,石署長好,部長我先請教一個問題賴清德總統他提出他的競選政見\n\n2\n00:00:29,754 --> 00:00:52,729\n就是說最高目標這個健保點子可以用1.1為目標這件事情他有徵詢過您的意見嗎?當他提出這個政見的時候相關團隊有徵詢過您的意見嗎?在過去我們並沒有對這一點說到徵詢不過我想委員這個可能要做一點挑戰他不是1.1而是健保點子1.11點1元健保點子1.1元好對\n\n3\n00:01:03,933 --> 00:01:07,895\n�二、國民黨黨團擬具«全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案案。」案。�二、國民黨黨團擬具«全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案案。」案。�\n\n4\n00:01:33,485 --> 00:01:40,626\nincarcerate總統的政見。那我就請教你,他要來當我們總統了。那他要落實他的政見。那你們主計總署會支持這個未來準總統的這樣的一個政見嗎?\n\n5\n00:01:59,745 --> 00:02:18,241\n是,委員可不可以讓我說明一下,因為基本上目前這個案子是大院提的嘛,那依我們的預算法的規定。你先不用講這部分,我只問你,未來總統如果他要去落實他的政見,他要去力推健保點子要調高,那你們主計總書會配合嗎?\n\n6\n00:02:19,889 --> 00:02:28,811\n我只問你嘛,主席總書如果總統他說他政見就是要推,你們當然是配合啊,沒有第二句話啊,不是嗎?我就問你,現在台電的財務虧損一千億的補貼就過去了,有沒有,主席總書有沒有答應?\n\n7\n00:02:50,117 --> 00:03:17,259\n有啊對不對就是政策決定你有沒有錢嘛就是這樣子啊整個國家的預算的大餅是看這個錢要放在哪裡嘛要不然台建的虧損為什麼要由這個政府你主計總署要答應一千億就要過去合理嗎照再來講是補貼他比較合理還是在補貼健保健保還照顧全國的所有的民眾欸那你的政策標準在哪裡主計總署的給錢的標準在哪裡\n\n8\n00:03:19,500 --> 00:03:20,521\nbicyn沈沈沈沈沈\n\n9\n00:03:47,496 --> 00:03:48,997\nympt.\n\n10\n00:03:48,997 --> 00:04:02,464\n我聽明白你的意思了。但是這件事情不是在於政府有沒有錢的問題,很多時候都是來自於更高層,他決定我這筆錢要往哪個方向去。\n\n11\n00:04:25,868 --> 00:04:45,649\nbicyn-這是你國家整體的資源往哪邊擺放的問題。當然我也同意制度的改革要有合理,要合理。所以這一件事情,這個兩位都從一屆來喔。這一件事情為什麼一屆反彈聲音這麼大?你光去看這個健保點子,這個圖你來看,這樣子上上下下。\n\n12\n00:05:22,455 --> 00:05:42,116\n但是請記得不要馬而好又要馬而不吃草。天底下沒有這樣的事情。我們需要所有的醫療人員用最專業的醫療人員要他們在第一線的崗位上面守護國人的健康跟安全。但是另外一方面我們應該要提供給他合理\n\n13\n00:05:42,757 --> 00:05:50,081\nbicyn全等一個醫療保障的制度我覺得這個是我們應該要去追求的所以合理的改革是我們應該要去討論的而不是用這樣子的方式說因為這樣子這個我們健保可能會倒我覺得也不要用這樣子的話語而是應該指出來說我們如果要這樣調的話我所有搭配的制度我很遺憾可能部長你要離開了所以沒有提出你完整的報告\n\n14\n00:06:36,630 --> 00:07:05,532\ndisciplinary,接下來才是討論健保費要不要調漲的問題。我覺得談事情應該是要這樣子談。所以這一件事情我覺得沒有什麼是、非、對、錯的問題,而是遇到問題了。就是醫界有反應,我們來共同解決。那解決的方案作為衛福部應該提出你們認為可行的幾個方案,這樣來討論比較容易。各位報告齁,這個跟台電的補貼是不一樣。台電補貼大概是一次性。\n\n15\n00:07:06,363 --> 00:07:15,057\n你怎麼確定一次性?他現在...他並沒有講說每年,但是如果這一個案子下去的話,如果通過的話,就是每年。\n\n16\n00:07:16,429 --> 00:07:42,312\n那你認為我們政府財政做不到嗎?我們現在每一年我們多出來的稅有多少你知道嗎?幾千億欸!對,那個是最近這幾年,因為我們的經濟情況好。已經超徵稅額都是幾千億欸!那為什麼不能優先來改善這部分呢?那個如果是只有一次性的,那可能就是問題會比較小。但是這個健保的這一個六十二條的修正如果過的話是每年。\n\n17\n00:07:50,734 --> 00:08:15,394\n你懂我意思嗎?為什麼沒有其他的方案,你剛剛會講,然後講到這個,所以我覺得你好像是完全反對這樣的調整方案。沒有,我只是提出警告,我之前也報告過嘛,我剩下17天。我知道,我知道。我沒有辦法去預測。因為賴總統也沒有先來徵詢你的意見,然後他就這樣子丟出來了,所以你提出這樣的一個警告。\n\n18\n00:08:15,814 --> 00:08:33,948\nbicyn但是我覺得這個方案是醫界已經反映多次而且一直在反映那你看看我們的健保點子這樣子一直浮動式的坦白講也有它不合理的地方所以其實應該是要好好的來討論到底怎麼樣來檢討我們有一個共識全民健保很好這是臺灣的驕傲但是全民健保也不能建構在壓榨第一線\n\n19\n00:08:45,417 --> 00:08:47,678\ndisadvant四、國民黨黨團擬具〈全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案案〉案。\n\n20\n00:09:05,307 --> 00:09:17,175\nbicyn您現在是中央健保署的署長。您長期也都在這個衛福部。您應該很知道一屆的心聲。那您作為一個署長,您認為未來這個改革可能有什麼方向可以前進?\n\n21\n00:09:35,627 --> 00:09:39,028\nbicynKwan-kwan﹗\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9\t1190\t好,謝謝主席我們是不是請薛部長還有我們主計處的黃專門委員好,請我們薛部長以及主計處的還有健保署的石署長也一起上來好,石署長好,部長我先請教一個問題賴清德總統他提出他的競選政見\n29754\t52729\t就是說最高目標這個健保點子可以用1.1為目標這件事情他有徵詢過您的意見嗎?當他提出這個政見的時候相關團隊有徵詢過您的意見嗎?在過去我們並沒有對這一點說到徵詢不過我想委員這個可能要做一點挑戰他不是1.1而是健保點子1.11點1元健保點子1.1元好對\n58148\t63660\t�\n63933\t67895\t�二、國民黨黨團擬具 «全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案案。」案。�二、國民黨黨團擬具 «全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案案。」案。�\n93485\t100626\tincarcerate 總統的政見。那我就請教你,他要來當我們總統了。那他要落實他的政見。那你們主計總署會支持這個未來準總統的這樣的一個政見嗎?\n119745\t138241\t是,委員可不可以讓我說明一下,因為基本上目前這個案子是大院提的嘛,那依我們的預算法的規定。你先不用講這部分,我只問你,未來總統如果他要去落實他的政見,他要去力推健保點子要調高,那你們主計總書會配合嗎?\n139889\t148811\t我只問你嘛,主席總書如果總統他說他政見就是要推,你們當然是配合啊,沒有第二句話啊,不是嗎?我就問你,現在台電的財務虧損一千億的補貼就過去了,有沒有,主席總書有沒有答應?\n170117\t197259\t有啊 對不對就是政策決定你有沒有錢嘛就是這樣子啊整個國家的預算的大餅是看這個錢要放在哪裡嘛要不然台建的虧損為什麼要由這個政府你主計總署要答應一千億就要過去合理嗎照再來講是補貼他比較合理還是在補貼健保健保還照顧全國的所有的民眾欸那你的政策標準在哪裡主計總署的給錢的標準在哪裡\n199500\t200521\tbicyn 沈 沈 沈 沈 沈\n227496\t228997\tympt.\n228997\t242464\t我聽明白你的意思了。但是這件事情不是在於政府有沒有錢的問題,很多時候都是來自於更高層,他決定我這筆錢要往哪個方向去。\n245265\t265708\t​​​​​​​​​​​​\n265868\t285649\tbicyn- 這是你國家整體的資源往哪邊擺放的問題。當然我也同意制度的改革要有合理,要合理。所以這一件事情,這個兩位都從一屆來喔。這一件事情為什麼一屆反彈聲音這麼大?你光去看這個健保點子,這個圖你來看,這樣子上上下下。\n286510\t307193\t\n307193\t322295\t​​​​​​​​​​\n322455\t342116\t但是請記得不要馬而好又要馬而不吃草。天底下沒有這樣的事情。我們需要所有的醫療人員用最專業的醫療人員要他們在第一線的崗位上面守護國人的健康跟安全。但是另外一方面我們應該要提供給他合理\n342757\t350081\tbicyn全等一個醫療保障的制度我覺得這個是我們應該要去追求的所以合理的改革是我們應該要去討論的而不是用這樣子的方式說因為這樣子這個我們健保可能會倒我覺得也不要用這樣子的話語而是應該指出來說我們如果要這樣調的話我所有搭配的制度我很遺憾可能部長你要離開了所以沒有提出你完整的報告\n369991\t396510\t​​​​​​​​\n396630\t425532\tdisciplinary,接下來才是討論健保費要不要調漲的問題。我覺得談事情應該是要這樣子談。所以這一件事情我覺得沒有什麼是、非、對、錯的問題,而是遇到問題了。就是醫界有反應,我們來共同解決。那解決的方案作為衛福部應該提出你們認為可行的幾個方案,這樣來討論比較容易。各位報告齁,這個跟台電的補貼是不一樣。台電補貼大概是一次性。\n426363\t435057\t你怎麼確定一次性?他現在...他並沒有講說每年,但是如果這一個案子下去的話,如果通過的話,就是每年。\n436429\t462312\t那你認為我們政府財政做不到嗎?我們現在每一年我們多出來的稅有多少你知道嗎?幾千億欸!對,那個是最近這幾年,因為我們的經濟情況好。已經超徵稅額都是幾千億欸!那為什麼不能優先來改善這部分呢?那個如果是只有一次性的,那可能就是問題會比較小。但是這個健保的這一個六十二條的修正如果過的話是每年。\n463080\t470469\t​​​​​​​​​​​​\n470734\t495394\t你懂我意思嗎?為什麼沒有其他的方案,你剛剛會講,然後講到這個,所以我覺得你好像是完全反對這樣的調整方案。沒有,我只是提出警告,我之前也報告過嘛,我剩下17天。我知道,我知道。我沒有辦法去預測。因為賴總統也沒有先來徵詢你的意見,然後他就這樣子丟出來了,所以你提出這樣的一個警告。\n495814\t513948\tbicyn 但是我覺得這個方案是醫界已經反映多次而且一直在反映那你看看我們的健保點子這樣子一直浮動式的坦白講也有它不合理的地方所以其實應該是要好好的來討論到底怎麼樣來檢討我們有一個共識全民健保很好這是臺灣的驕傲但是全民健保也不能建構在壓榨第一線\n525417\t527678\tdisadvant四、國民黨黨團擬具〈全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案案〉案。\n545307\t557175\tbicyn 您現在是中央健保署的署長。您長期也都在這個衛福部。您應該很知道一屆的心聲。那您作為一個署長,您認為未來這個改革可能有什麼方向可以前進?\n575627\t579028\tbicyn Kwan-kwan﹗\n602193\t623183\t​​​​​​​​\n","txt":"好,謝謝主席我們是不是請薛部長還有我們主計處的黃專門委員好,請我們薛部長以及主計處的還有健保署的石署長也一起上來好,石署長好,部長我先請教一個問題賴清德總統他提出他的競選政見\n就是說最高目標這個健保點子可以用1.1為目標這件事情他有徵詢過您的意見嗎?當他提出這個政見的時候相關團隊有徵詢過您的意見嗎?在過去我們並沒有對這一點說到徵詢不過我想委員這個可能要做一點挑戰他不是1.1而是健保點子1.11點1元健保點子1.1元好對\n�\n�二、國民黨黨團擬具 «全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案案。」案。�二、國民黨黨團擬具 «全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案案。」案。�\nincarcerate 總統的政見。那我就請教你,他要來當我們總統了。那他要落實他的政見。那你們主計總署會支持這個未來準總統的這樣的一個政見嗎?\n是,委員可不可以讓我說明一下,因為基本上目前這個案子是大院提的嘛,那依我們的預算法的規定。你先不用講這部分,我只問你,未來總統如果他要去落實他的政見,他要去力推健保點子要調高,那你們主計總書會配合嗎?\n我只問你嘛,主席總書如果總統他說他政見就是要推,你們當然是配合啊,沒有第二句話啊,不是嗎?我就問你,現在台電的財務虧損一千億的補貼就過去了,有沒有,主席總書有沒有答應?\n有啊 對不對就是政策決定你有沒有錢嘛就是這樣子啊整個國家的預算的大餅是看這個錢要放在哪裡嘛要不然台建的虧損為什麼要由這個政府你主計總署要答應一千億就要過去合理嗎照再來講是補貼他比較合理還是在補貼健保健保還照顧全國的所有的民眾欸那你的政策標準在哪裡主計總署的給錢的標準在哪裡\nbicyn 沈 沈 沈 沈 沈\nympt.\n我聽明白你的意思了。但是這件事情不是在於政府有沒有錢的問題,很多時候都是來自於更高層,他決定我這筆錢要往哪個方向去。\n​​​​​​​​​​​​\nbicyn- 這是你國家整體的資源往哪邊擺放的問題。當然我也同意制度的改革要有合理,要合理。所以這一件事情,這個兩位都從一屆來喔。這一件事情為什麼一屆反彈聲音這麼大?你光去看這個健保點子,這個圖你來看,這樣子上上下下。\n\n​​​​​​​​​​\n但是請記得不要馬而好又要馬而不吃草。天底下沒有這樣的事情。我們需要所有的醫療人員用最專業的醫療人員要他們在第一線的崗位上面守護國人的健康跟安全。但是另外一方面我們應該要提供給他合理\nbicyn全等一個醫療保障的制度我覺得這個是我們應該要去追求的所以合理的改革是我們應該要去討論的而不是用這樣子的方式說因為這樣子這個我們健保可能會倒我覺得也不要用這樣子的話語而是應該指出來說我們如果要這樣調的話我所有搭配的制度我很遺憾可能部長你要離開了所以沒有提出你完整的報告\n​​​​​​​​\ndisciplinary,接下來才是討論健保費要不要調漲的問題。我覺得談事情應該是要這樣子談。所以這一件事情我覺得沒有什麼是、非、對、錯的問題,而是遇到問題了。就是醫界有反應,我們來共同解決。那解決的方案作為衛福部應該提出你們認為可行的幾個方案,這樣來討論比較容易。各位報告齁,這個跟台電的補貼是不一樣。台電補貼大概是一次性。\n你怎麼確定一次性?他現在...他並沒有講說每年,但是如果這一個案子下去的話,如果通過的話,就是每年。\n那你認為我們政府財政做不到嗎?我們現在每一年我們多出來的稅有多少你知道嗎?幾千億欸!對,那個是最近這幾年,因為我們的經濟情況好。已經超徵稅額都是幾千億欸!那為什麼不能優先來改善這部分呢?那個如果是只有一次性的,那可能就是問題會比較小。但是這個健保的這一個六十二條的修正如果過的話是每年。\n​​​​​​​​​​​​\n你懂我意思嗎?為什麼沒有其他的方案,你剛剛會講,然後講到這個,所以我覺得你好像是完全反對這樣的調整方案。沒有,我只是提出警告,我之前也報告過嘛,我剩下17天。我知道,我知道。我沒有辦法去預測。因為賴總統也沒有先來徵詢你的意見,然後他就這樣子丟出來了,所以你提出這樣的一個警告。\nbicyn 但是我覺得這個方案是醫界已經反映多次而且一直在反映那你看看我們的健保點子這樣子一直浮動式的坦白講也有它不合理的地方所以其實應該是要好好的來討論到底怎麼樣來檢討我們有一個共識全民健保很好這是臺灣的驕傲但是全民健保也不能建構在壓榨第一線\ndisadvant四、國民黨黨團擬具〈全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案案〉案。\nbicyn 您現在是中央健保署的署長。您長期也都在這個衛福部。您應該很知道一屆的心聲。那您作為一個署長,您認為未來這個改革可能有什麼方向可以前進?\nbicyn Kwan-kwan﹗\n​​​​​​​​\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.009 --> 00:01.190\n好,謝謝主席我們是不是請薛部長還有我們主計處的黃專門委員好,請我們薛部長以及主計處的還有健保署的石署長也一起上來好,石署長好,部長我先請教一個問題賴清德總統他提出他的競選政見\n\n00:29.754 --> 00:52.729\n就是說最高目標這個健保點子可以用1.1為目標這件事情他有徵詢過您的意見嗎?當他提出這個政見的時候相關團隊有徵詢過您的意見嗎?在過去我們並沒有對這一點說到徵詢不過我想委員這個可能要做一點挑戰他不是1.1而是健保點子1.11點1元健保點子1.1元好對\n\n01:03.933 --> 01:07.895\n�二、國民黨黨團擬具«全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案案。」案。�二、國民黨黨團擬具«全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案案。」案。�\n\n01:33.485 --> 01:40.626\nincarcerate總統的政見。那我就請教你,他要來當我們總統了。那他要落實他的政見。那你們主計總署會支持這個未來準總統的這樣的一個政見嗎?\n\n01:59.745 --> 02:18.241\n是,委員可不可以讓我說明一下,因為基本上目前這個案子是大院提的嘛,那依我們的預算法的規定。你先不用講這部分,我只問你,未來總統如果他要去落實他的政見,他要去力推健保點子要調高,那你們主計總書會配合嗎?\n\n02:19.889 --> 02:28.811\n我只問你嘛,主席總書如果總統他說他政見就是要推,你們當然是配合啊,沒有第二句話啊,不是嗎?我就問你,現在台電的財務虧損一千億的補貼就過去了,有沒有,主席總書有沒有答應?\n\n02:50.117 --> 03:17.259\n有啊對不對就是政策決定你有沒有錢嘛就是這樣子啊整個國家的預算的大餅是看這個錢要放在哪裡嘛要不然台建的虧損為什麼要由這個政府你主計總署要答應一千億就要過去合理嗎照再來講是補貼他比較合理還是在補貼健保健保還照顧全國的所有的民眾欸那你的政策標準在哪裡主計總署的給錢的標準在哪裡\n\n03:19.500 --> 03:20.521\nbicyn沈沈沈沈沈\n\n03:47.496 --> 03:48.997\nympt.\n\n03:48.997 --> 04:02.464\n我聽明白你的意思了。但是這件事情不是在於政府有沒有錢的問題,很多時候都是來自於更高層,他決定我這筆錢要往哪個方向去。\n\n04:25.868 --> 04:45.649\nbicyn-這是你國家整體的資源往哪邊擺放的問題。當然我也同意制度的改革要有合理,要合理。所以這一件事情,這個兩位都從一屆來喔。這一件事情為什麼一屆反彈聲音這麼大?你光去看這個健保點子,這個圖你來看,這樣子上上下下。\n\n05:22.455 --> 05:42.116\n但是請記得不要馬而好又要馬而不吃草。天底下沒有這樣的事情。我們需要所有的醫療人員用最專業的醫療人員要他們在第一線的崗位上面守護國人的健康跟安全。但是另外一方面我們應該要提供給他合理\n\n05:42.757 --> 05:50.081\nbicyn全等一個醫療保障的制度我覺得這個是我們應該要去追求的所以合理的改革是我們應該要去討論的而不是用這樣子的方式說因為這樣子這個我們健保可能會倒我覺得也不要用這樣子的話語而是應該指出來說我們如果要這樣調的話我所有搭配的制度我很遺憾可能部長你要離開了所以沒有提出你完整的報告\n\n06:36.630 --> 07:05.532\ndisciplinary,接下來才是討論健保費要不要調漲的問題。我覺得談事情應該是要這樣子談。所以這一件事情我覺得沒有什麼是、非、對、錯的問題,而是遇到問題了。就是醫界有反應,我們來共同解決。那解決的方案作為衛福部應該提出你們認為可行的幾個方案,這樣來討論比較容易。各位報告齁,這個跟台電的補貼是不一樣。台電補貼大概是一次性。\n\n07:06.363 --> 07:15.057\n你怎麼確定一次性?他現在...他並沒有講說每年,但是如果這一個案子下去的話,如果通過的話,就是每年。\n\n07:16.429 --> 07:42.312\n那你認為我們政府財政做不到嗎?我們現在每一年我們多出來的稅有多少你知道嗎?幾千億欸!對,那個是最近這幾年,因為我們的經濟情況好。已經超徵稅額都是幾千億欸!那為什麼不能優先來改善這部分呢?那個如果是只有一次性的,那可能就是問題會比較小。但是這個健保的這一個六十二條的修正如果過的話是每年。\n\n07:50.734 --> 08:15.394\n你懂我意思嗎?為什麼沒有其他的方案,你剛剛會講,然後講到這個,所以我覺得你好像是完全反對這樣的調整方案。沒有,我只是提出警告,我之前也報告過嘛,我剩下17天。我知道,我知道。我沒有辦法去預測。因為賴總統也沒有先來徵詢你的意見,然後他就這樣子丟出來了,所以你提出這樣的一個警告。\n\n08:15.814 --> 08:33.948\nbicyn但是我覺得這個方案是醫界已經反映多次而且一直在反映那你看看我們的健保點子這樣子一直浮動式的坦白講也有它不合理的地方所以其實應該是要好好的來討論到底怎麼樣來檢討我們有一個共識全民健保很好這是臺灣的驕傲但是全民健保也不能建構在壓榨第一線\n\n08:45.417 --> 08:47.678\ndisadvant四、國民黨黨團擬具〈全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案案〉案。\n\n09:05.307 --> 09:17.175\nbicyn您現在是中央健保署的署長。您長期也都在這個衛福部。您應該很知道一屆的心聲。那您作為一個署長,您認為未來這個改革可能有什麼方向可以前進?\n\n09:35.627 --> 09:39.028\nbicynKwan-kwan﹗\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.009,"end":1.19,"text":"好,謝謝主席我們是不是請薛部長還有我們主計處的黃專門委員好,請我們薛部長以及主計處的還有健保署的石署長也一起上來好,石署長好,部長我先請教一個問題賴清德總統他提出他的競選政見"},{"start":29.754,"end":52.729,"text":"就是說最高目標這個健保點子可以用1.1為目標這件事情他有徵詢過您的意見嗎?當他提出這個政見的時候相關團隊有徵詢過您的意見嗎?在過去我們並沒有對這一點說到徵詢不過我想委員這個可能要做一點挑戰他不是1.1而是健保點子1.11點1元健保點子1.1元好對"},{"start":58.148,"end":63.66,"text":"�"},{"start":63.933,"end":67.895,"text":"�二、國民黨黨團擬具 «全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案案。」案。�二、國民黨黨團擬具 «全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案案。」案。�"},{"start":93.485,"end":100.626,"text":" incarcerate 總統的政見。那我就請教你,他要來當我們總統了。那他要落實他的政見。那你們主計總署會支持這個未來準總統的這樣的一個政見嗎?"},{"start":119.745,"end":138.241,"text":"是,委員可不可以讓我說明一下,因為基本上目前這個案子是大院提的嘛,那依我們的預算法的規定。你先不用講這部分,我只問你,未來總統如果他要去落實他的政見,他要去力推健保點子要調高,那你們主計總書會配合嗎?"},{"start":139.889,"end":148.811,"text":"我只問你嘛,主席總書如果總統他說他政見就是要推,你們當然是配合啊,沒有第二句話啊,不是嗎?我就問你,現在台電的財務虧損一千億的補貼就過去了,有沒有,主席總書有沒有答應?"},{"start":170.117,"end":197.259,"text":"有啊 對不對就是政策決定你有沒有錢嘛就是這樣子啊整個國家的預算的大餅是看這個錢要放在哪裡嘛要不然台建的虧損為什麼要由這個政府你主計總署要答應一千億就要過去合理嗎照再來講是補貼他比較合理還是在補貼健保健保還照顧全國的所有的民眾欸那你的政策標準在哪裡主計總署的給錢的標準在哪裡"},{"start":199.5,"end":200.521,"text":" bicyn 沈 沈 沈 沈 沈"},{"start":227.496,"end":228.997,"text":"ympt."},{"start":228.997,"end":242.464,"text":"我聽明白你的意思了。但是這件事情不是在於政府有沒有錢的問題,很多時候都是來自於更高層,他決定我這筆錢要往哪個方向去。"},{"start":245.265,"end":265.708,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":265.868,"end":285.649,"text":" bicyn- 這是你國家整體的資源往哪邊擺放的問題。當然我也同意制度的改革要有合理,要合理。所以這一件事情,這個兩位都從一屆來喔。這一件事情為什麼一屆反彈聲音這麼大?你光去看這個健保點子,這個圖你來看,這樣子上上下下。"},{"start":286.51,"end":307.193,"text":""},{"start":307.193,"end":322.295,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":322.455,"end":342.116,"text":"但是請記得不要馬而好又要馬而不吃草。天底下沒有這樣的事情。我們需要所有的醫療人員用最專業的醫療人員要他們在第一線的崗位上面守護國人的健康跟安全。但是另外一方面我們應該要提供給他合理"},{"start":342.757,"end":350.081,"text":" bicyn全等一個醫療保障的制度我覺得這個是我們應該要去追求的所以合理的改革是我們應該要去討論的而不是用這樣子的方式說因為這樣子這個我們健保可能會倒我覺得也不要用這樣子的話語而是應該指出來說我們如果要這樣調的話我所有搭配的制度我很遺憾可能部長你要離開了所以沒有提出你完整的報告"},{"start":369.991,"end":396.51,"text":"​​​​​​​​"},{"start":396.63,"end":425.532,"text":"disciplinary,接下來才是討論健保費要不要調漲的問題。我覺得談事情應該是要這樣子談。所以這一件事情我覺得沒有什麼是、非、對、錯的問題,而是遇到問題了。就是醫界有反應,我們來共同解決。那解決的方案作為衛福部應該提出你們認為可行的幾個方案,這樣來討論比較容易。各位報告齁,這個跟台電的補貼是不一樣。台電補貼大概是一次性。"},{"start":426.363,"end":435.057,"text":"你怎麼確定一次性?他現在...他並沒有講說每年,但是如果這一個案子下去的話,如果通過的話,就是每年。"},{"start":436.429,"end":462.312,"text":"那你認為我們政府財政做不到嗎?我們現在每一年我們多出來的稅有多少你知道嗎?幾千億欸!對,那個是最近這幾年,因為我們的經濟情況好。已經超徵稅額都是幾千億欸!那為什麼不能優先來改善這部分呢?那個如果是只有一次性的,那可能就是問題會比較小。但是這個健保的這一個六十二條的修正如果過的話是每年。"},{"start":463.08,"end":470.469,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":470.734,"end":495.394,"text":"你懂我意思嗎?為什麼沒有其他的方案,你剛剛會講,然後講到這個,所以我覺得你好像是完全反對這樣的調整方案。沒有,我只是提出警告,我之前也報告過嘛,我剩下17天。我知道,我知道。我沒有辦法去預測。因為賴總統也沒有先來徵詢你的意見,然後他就這樣子丟出來了,所以你提出這樣的一個警告。"},{"start":495.814,"end":513.948,"text":" bicyn 但是我覺得這個方案是醫界已經反映多次而且一直在反映那你看看我們的健保點子這樣子一直浮動式的坦白講也有它不合理的地方所以其實應該是要好好的來討論到底怎麼樣來檢討我們有一個共識全民健保很好這是臺灣的驕傲但是全民健保也不能建構在壓榨第一線"},{"start":525.417,"end":527.678,"text":" disadvant四、國民黨黨團擬具〈全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案案〉案。"},{"start":545.307,"end":557.175,"text":" bicyn 您現在是中央健保署的署長。您長期也都在這個衛福部。您應該很知道一屆的心聲。那您作為一個署長,您認為未來這個改革可能有什麼方向可以前進?"},{"start":575.627,"end":579.028,"text":" bicyn Kwan-kwan﹗"},{"start":602.193,"end":623.183,"text":"​​​​​​​​"}]}}}}