{"id":152027,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152027","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6f015fe8e6787db1839041cc050c5d90e12ebde737ab3c1955be169921a0a717816928265b3f05e65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林岱樺","委員發言時間":"10:04:20 - 10:18:19","影片長度":"00:13:59","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：審查：\n一、行政院函請審議「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、本院委員柯志恩等17人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n三、本院委員賴士葆等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n四、本院委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n五、本院委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「中小企業發展條例增訂第三十六條之四條文草案」案。\n六、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n七、本院國民黨黨團擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n八、本院委員張智倫等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十五條、第三十六條之二及第四十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、本院委員王世堅等16人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十五條、第三十六條之二及第四十條條文修正草案」案。\n十、本院委員郭國文等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n十一、本院委員邱議瑩等29人擬具「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（詢答及處理，委員郭國文等人提案如未接獲議事處來函則不予審查）【4月29日、5月1日及2日三天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-02","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-10"},"duration":839,"end_time":"2024-05-02T10:18:19+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-02T10:04:20+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":253,"blocks":[["林委員岱樺：（10時4分）有請部長。"],["主席：我們再請王部長。"],["林委員岱樺：在正式質詢之前，本席想知道部長什麼時候要針對我高雄市林園區中油工業區南方的中汕地區擴編工業區要進行的協議價購土地案開會？"],["王部長美花：跟委員報告，這一個部分，我其實有先跟中油、國營司這邊交換意見，現在我們的新四輕因為院裡面還有一些問題在詢問我們……"],["林委員岱樺：你覺得這個案子應該要跟四輕更新掛鉤嗎？"],["王部長美花：因為對中油來講……"],["林委員岱樺：你有沒有把上次本席所提到的這一塊土地是因為工業區下去之後所造成的污染，導致農地不能農用，要做相關的工廠也不行，即使要做土地變更，把私有土地變更做工廠也不行，聯外道路也受限。你現在還是沒有把我的話聽進去，把人民的心聲聽進去，你在跟我講中油，你覺得要按照中油的意思，那你去當中油董事長算了，何必當部長呢？所以，你什麼時候開會？"],["王部長美花：我會再跟中油、國營司來討論……"],["林委員岱樺：你自己認不認同這塊土地應該得到補償？"],["王部長美花：它有它比較特殊的情形，我們會……"],["林委員岱樺：需不需要得到補償？它是工業區下去才造成這樣的，如果你連這個都不敢答，你怎麼講社會企業啊？你怎麼敢在本席這邊講ESG啊？你這個部長憑什麼？你如果連一個社會企業，你只會照著行政院給你的稿唸，那你不用來當部長啊！今天我是講人民的心聲，因為工業區下去所造成的環境污染，林園工業區多久了？來！回答！下面的人給部長訊息吧！"],["林組長怡妏：林園工業區大概開發將近快40年了。"],["林委員岱樺：40年了，部長，40年的工業區造成人民土地的污染，而且是閒置，安全沒有產值，你覺得這不應該負起社會責任嗎？中油不應該負起社會責任嗎？工業區不該負起該有的社會責任嗎？請回答是或不是，如果是，那就應該要繼續設法，好好的認定這塊土地應該要做怎麼樣的一個補償作為，要擴編工業區，然後再比照林園區五福里的13到17鄰做相關的協議價購，我說這不是個案，這有前例，請回答！部長回答！"],["王部長美花：這個部分委員很關心，我們確實針對這個地區有沒有可能利用、要怎麼利用、會碰到哪些瓶頸，之前也有一些討論，我想委員很關心這塊地，我再跟同仁確認一次。"],["林委員岱樺：你心裡要有社會企業這個價值，社會企業價值在做什麼，即使最後是由中油來協議價購，這對它也是ESG啊，怎麼不會是ESG的項目呢？這也是一個鼓勵的方式啊！部長，你做了4年，難得有長官願意挺你挺4年欸！回答吧！有下去會勘，剛才陳亭妃委員說，因為你下去會勘，所以今天你要做會議的處理，本席這個也請你去會勘過了，去年也會勘過了，然後也質詢過了，今天再次質詢，那你什麼時候再討論？我要正式的會議結論。"],["王部長美花：我再跟同仁……"],["林委員岱樺：難道你開會都不用有正式會議結論的喔？都可以默默自己處理喔？"],["王部長美花：沒有，我們經濟部本來自己就有非常多的會議……"],["林委員岱樺：本席也很多會議啊！我們召委也很多會議，立法院有好多會議啊！你覺得你這個話大家聽得進去嗎？所以你根本不想處理是嗎？"],["王部長美花：也不是，所以委員問了我也……"],["林委員岱樺：所以你什麼時候開會？直接講，我今天站在這邊，我就是逼你，你什麼時候開這個會議、再一次正式開會議，討論社會企業的ESG要怎麼做、討論社會企業對於環境衝擊該有什麼作為？"],["王部長美花：我下個禮拜找一個時間，跟同仁來……"],["林委員岱樺：下禮拜五前喔！好，正式會議紀錄出來，會議紀錄要有，不做黑箱作業的，如果你私下討論那個叫做黑箱作業，這是本席有公文給你，兩次，包括上次跟這次的，也有下去會勘的，所以我再問一次，你什麼時候再召開會議討論？"],["王部長美花：我下個禮拜會找一個時間跟同仁討論。"],["林委員岱樺：現在進行今天的正式質詢，經濟景氣的寒冬，政府如何因應？這個前提是什麼？我們一直說台積電，臺灣是以出口導向的國家，所以我們除了電子、資通訊、半導體相關的產業一枝獨秀的出口，其他的產業其實是很辛苦的。我們來看全球經濟的展望以及中小企業面臨景氣的困境是什麼？我們的政府有提出了產業升級跟全球趨勢相關的方案，但是問題在哪裡？本席有具體的要求。","全球經濟的展望這都是公開的資訊，在年初的時候，公視新聞網也有講到世界銀行針對2024年的初估全球經濟成長率，會從去年的2.6%降到2.4%，呈現連3年的衰退趨勢。臺灣就是以出口為導向，許多產業在去年是連續好幾季都出現出口訂單衰退，除了剛才講的資通訊、電子以及半導體相關產業是一枝獨秀之外，其他的出口訂單是衰退的，甚至部分員工都有放無薪假，放無薪假不是本席講的，是勞動部年初的新聞稿，就有7大產業是放無薪假的，這個上次質詢我有提供出來。","市場憂心本國的狀況，全球展望的經濟展望是這樣的走緩，以出口為導向的臺灣，2024（今）年是否還能夠保3呢？全年度是否保3呢？要提醒的是俄烏戰爭、以巴戰爭等戰爭持續中，如果戰爭的衝突擴大，一定會對全球經濟造成強烈的衝擊，屆時臺灣出口訂單也很可能會持續衰退，出口訂單如果衰退持續擴大，經濟部如何讓經濟成長率能夠全年保3，或者降低衰退的幅度？","我們中小企業的困境是什麼？我就以台經院資料庫的兩張圖，這是也公開訊息，第一張是金屬製品，這是我們高雄市非常指標的產業──扣件業，我就以金屬產業當中這十年來，中小企業金屬製造業在2014到2020年的景氣一直是屬於低迷的，一直到2021年的時候達到景氣高峰了，景氣分數是16.85，景氣的燈號是黃紅燈，呈揚升的狀態。2021年到達高峰之後，因為遭逢COVID-19，疫情在短短數個月蔓延全球120個國家，造成全球經濟嚴重衝擊，而各產業的經濟是難以估算它的損失，導致2022、2023年景氣再度轉為低迷。","另外這張圖是相關的景氣訊息圖，對應剛才扣件業的景氣訊息是一樣的，疫情過後，因缺工、缺料、原物料的上漲、貸款利息的調升等各種的因素，導致成本高漲，許多中小企業有苦說不出，也只能苦撐，甚至關廠，對於國內產業遇到的經濟景氣低迷，經濟部你們對中小企業做了什麼事呢？爬梳一下，疫情過後全球產業朝向這樣子的目標在邁進，即低碳減排、智慧化管理、生產設備自動化，而且深化ESG的經營理念，產業升級已經是全球的趨勢，勢在必行。而產業升級，它要做什麼呢？人事成本、研發技術、購買機器設備，都需要投入相當多的資源成本。而現在中小企業遇到什麼問題？你上面要朝向世界趨勢當中所提出的補助方案，我們中小企業遇到什麼問題？有三個，第一個、缺乏撰寫計畫書的專業人才，第二個、沒有足夠人力跟能力進行研發，第三個、機器設備過於昂貴，因為要升級啊！所以這是業者無法順利推動產業升級的主要原因，本席希望你把這三個原因看好、聽好、記好。","業者一直苦於接不到訂單，又要推動產業升級，中小企業是臺灣的經濟命脈，但資本不如大企業的雄厚，需要政府的大力支持。現在你們針對中小企業，雖然有以大帶小的補助方案（產業低碳科技應用補助計畫），你們有這個計畫，112到114這3年補助38億，平均一年是12億，今年是最後一年，只剩11億。另外，你們針對中小企業還有一個方案叫產業創新經費，才多少錢？1億啊！中小企業有數百萬家，一百五十幾萬啦！僧多粥少，一百五十幾萬是包括整個科技業，當然中小企業占了九成，所以僧多粥少的情況之下，這樣的計畫是什麼？大帶小，部長，要讓你知道，魔鬼就出在這個細節當中，你這個所謂的38億是大帶小，要嘛是1間大的帶4間小的，要嘛就1間大的帶10間小的。部長，如果這個案子下去，你覺得誰會拿最多？當然是大的啊！那個1帶4的4、1帶10的10，根本連麵包屑都拿不到啊！通常都是規模較大的公司拿到較多的資源，剩餘的小公司真的看得到、吃不到。再加上學者專家的學理專業審查相對實務是有落差的，造成資訊不對等，審查機制嚴謹固然是好，卻會讓中小企業望之卻步，如何建立一個有效的審查機制？","本席建議補助從寬、查核從嚴，我們現在是補助從嚴、查核也從嚴，所以根本沒有辦法補助我們中小企業者啊！幾乎西半部……包括我們召委也是都對中小企業很著力、很支持的，臺中也好、高雄也好，他們的工具機、我們的扣件產業都會遇到這個問題啊！所以本席有具體的要求，為真的務實提供中小企業升級及度過寒冬，我請你們檢討產業低碳科技應用的補助，雖然今年剩下11億，建議直接補助中小企業啦！不要再以大帶小了，讓政府的補助、租稅優化等方案，讓中小企業直接受益怎麼在ESG減排、智慧化製造的鏈結能夠直接的提升。第二個，也請經濟部重新檢討中小企業申請科技專案的審查機制，應該以興利為主、防弊為輔，要聽好，興利為主、防弊為輔，你們現在是怎麼做？其中針對設備的使用費，你們竟然是用直線折舊60個月，依計畫使用期限給予補助，這個講起來有點小複雜，你們回去問清楚……"],["主席：好，林委員……"],["林委員岱樺：這個邏輯是什麼？就是視中小企業為小偷啦！百分百的防弊而扼殺了興利的初衷，中小企業根本不可能來申請這樣的計畫。所以在這邊我請你們研議，改為中小企業購買機器設備，朝總額的比例百分之五十直接補助；如果它是買國產化的設備，朝全額補助，以帶動臺灣整體的經濟。部長，您稍微回應就好。"],["主席：部長，再請你書面資料答復，詳實跟委員說明，謝謝。"],["王部長美花：委員提的相關細節……"],["主席：請你書面資料再答復給委員，謝謝。"],["王部長美花：好。"],["主席：接下來我們請鄭正鈐委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":510,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-10","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","謝衣鳯","賴士葆","邱議瑩","張智倫","郭國文","陳亭妃","林岱樺","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra 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\"end\": 823.815, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"帶\"}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 823.815, \"end\": 824.175, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 824.175, \"end\": 824.275, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 824.275, \"end\": 824.295, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"濟\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,429 --> 00:00:23,155\n請林黛華委員。有請部長。我們再請王部長。在正式質詢之前,本席想知道部長你什麼時候為我高雄市林園區中游工業區下南方的中山地區的這個\n\n2\n00:00:45,083 --> 00:00:50,048\n我們的新市卿因為在院裡面那院裡面還有一些問題在詢問我們你覺得這個案子應該要跟市卿更新掛鉤嗎那因為對中友來講你有沒有把上次本席所提到的這一塊土地是因為工業區下去之後所造成的污染而導致它農地不能農用農地也不能種植而導致要做相關的工廠\n\n3\n00:01:11,307 --> 00:01:25,414\n議員柯志恩等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第12條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發\n\n4\n00:01:42,602 --> 00:01:42,842\n議員柯志恩等19人擬具\n\n5\n00:02:00,706 --> 00:02:16,401\n你如果連一個社會企業你只會照稿念只會照著行政院給你的稿念那你不用來當部長啊今天我是講人民的心聲因為企業工業區下去所造成的環境汙染林園工業區多久了林園工業區多久了來回答下面的人給部長訊息吧\n\n6\n00:02:27,063 --> 00:02:32,195\n四十年了,部長。四十年的工業區造成人民土地的污染,\n\n7\n00:02:33,683 --> 00:02:48,949\n而且是閒置!完全沒有產值欸!你覺得這不應該負起社會責任嗎?中有不應該負起社會責任嗎?工業局不該負起該有的社會責任嗎?請回答是或不是?如果是!那就應該要繼續做吧!裡面這塊土地好好的認定這塊土地應該要做怎麼樣的一個這個\n\n8\n00:02:55,052 --> 00:03:07,847\n補償作為,你要擴編工業區,然後再做相關的這個協議架構,比照林園區五福里的13到17林區處理。我說這不是個案吶,這有潛力啊。請回答。部長回答。\n\n9\n00:03:12,841 --> 00:03:14,342\n你心裡的價值要有,你的社會企業的這個價值,社會企業價值在做什麼?\n\n10\n00:03:40,183 --> 00:03:49,286\n即使中游最後是由中游來協議架構這對他也是ESG啊怎麼不會是ESG的項目呢這也是一個鼓勵的方式啊部長你做了四年欸難得有長官願意挺你挺四年欸\n\n11\n00:03:58,612 --> 00:04:06,437\n我回答吧,你這句話,有下去會刊,你說你今天,剛才,剛才程翡城委員講說因為你下去會刊,所以今天你要做這個會議的處理。好,那本期這個也請你會刊了。去年欸,有會刊過啦,然後也通過質詢啦。今天再次的質詢啦。那你什麼時候再討論?我要正式的會議結論啦。\n\n12\n00:04:25,778 --> 00:04:26,859\n我今天站在這邊我就是逼你\n\n13\n00:04:53,564 --> 00:05:01,227\n你什麼時候開這個會議?再次正式開會議?討論社會企業的ESG要怎麼做?討論社會企業對於環境衝擊該有什麼作為?\n\n14\n00:05:07,134 --> 00:05:09,036\n我下個禮拜找一個時間,跟同仁交換一個時間。\n\n15\n00:05:27,125 --> 00:05:54,296\n好,所以是我再問一次什麼時候你召開會議再討論?對,我會下個禮拜找一個時間跟同仁討論。好,現在進行今天的正式質詢。經濟景氣的寒冬政府如何因應?好,這個前提是什麼?我們一直講說臺積電本國是以臺灣這個國家是以出口導向的國家。所以呢,我們除了電子、直通訊、半導體相關的產業一枝獨秀的出口,其他的產業\n\n16\n00:06:12,210 --> 00:06:37,533\n好,全球經濟的展望這都是公開的資訊在年初的時候這個公視新聞網也有提也有講到世界銀行針對2024年的初估全球經濟成長率會從去年的2.6降到2.4呈現連三年的衰退的趨勢臺灣就是以出口為導向許多產業在去年是連續好幾季都出現出口訂單衰退的除了\n\n17\n00:06:38,454 --> 00:06:55,841\n剛才講的這個資通訊、電子以及這個半導體相關產業是一枝獨秀之外其他的出口定單是衰退的甚至部分員工都有放無薪假放無薪假不是本席講的這個是勞動部年初的新聞稿就有七大產業是放無薪假的\n\n18\n00:06:56,161 --> 00:07:02,747\n好,這個上次諮詢我有提供出來。好,市場憂心了。本國的狀況,全球的經濟展望是這樣的走緩。以諸葛偉導向的台灣,2024年今年是否還能夠保三呢?全年度是否保三呢?要提醒的是,二屋戰爭、以巴戰爭等戰爭持續中,若戰爭的衝突擴大,一定會對全球經濟造成強烈的衝擊。\n\n19\n00:07:20,683 --> 00:07:26,250\n繼此,臺灣出口訂單也很可能會持續衰退。出口訂單如果衰退持續擴大,經濟部如何讓經濟成長率能夠全年飽散或者降低衰退的幅度?\n\n20\n00:07:35,882 --> 00:07:46,749\n好,那我們中小企業的困境是什麼?我就以臺經院這一張的資料庫,這也公開訊息兩張圖。第一張是金屬製品,這是跟我高雄市非常指標的產業,構建業。我就以這個金屬產業當中這十年來,中小企業金屬製造業在2014到2020的\n\n21\n00:07:54,814 --> 00:08:03,498\nbicyncy一時是屬於第一名的一直到2021的時候達到景氣高峰了有了這個景氣分數是16.85景氣的這個燈號是黃紅燈呈陽生的好2021年之後到達高峰之後呐呈現的\n\n22\n00:08:12,641 --> 00:08:24,027\n會遭封COVID-19,所以疫情短短數個月蔓延全球120個國家,造成全球經濟嚴重衝擊,而各產業的經濟是難以估算損失的,導致2022、2023景氣再度轉為低迷。\n\n23\n00:08:29,309 --> 00:08:49,756\n好,那這個的另外這張圖呢也對應了這個是相關的景氣訊息圖對應剛才的這個扣件業的這個景氣的訊息是一樣的。疫情過後因缺工缺料原料物原物料的上漲貸款利息的調升等各種的因素導致成本高漲許多中小企業。\n\n24\n00:08:50,896 --> 00:08:55,238\n有苦說不出也只能苦稱甚至觀察對於國內產業遇到的經濟景氣低迷經濟部你們對中小企業做了什麼事呢?好,爬書一下你們呢這個也針對呢這個疫情過後全球產業啊\n\n25\n00:09:07,845 --> 00:09:11,428\n朝向這樣的目標在邁進,低碳減排,智慧化的管理,生產設備自動化,而且深化ESG的經營理念。產業升級已經是全球的趨勢勢在必行,而產業升級它要做什麼呢?\n\n26\n00:09:24,298 --> 00:09:41,156\nadequate人事成本研發技術購買機器設備都需要投入相當多的資源成本而現在中小企業遇到什麼問題你上面要朝向這個世界趨勢當中所提出的補助方案我們中小企業遇到什麼問題三個第一個缺乏撰寫計畫書的專業人才\n\n27\n00:09:46,101 --> 00:10:01,570\nadequa沒有足夠人力跟人力進行研發。第三個機器設備過於昂貴了因為要升級啊。那所以呢這是業者無法順利推動產業升級的主要原因。這是本席希望你把這三個原因看好聽好記好。\n\n28\n00:10:03,371 --> 00:10:27,608\n好,業者一直苦於接不到訂單,又要推動產業升級。中小企業是臺灣的經濟命脈。資本是不如大企業的雄厚,需要政府的大力支持。好,現在你們針對中小企業,雖然有以大代小的補助方案,產業低碳科技應用補助計畫。好,你們有這個計畫。這三年112到114補助38,平均一年是\n\n29\n00:10:39,901 --> 00:11:01,513\n好,那這個呢,中小企業呢,是百萬加一百五十幾萬啊。那增多、周少,通常一百五十幾萬是包括這個整個科技業。那當然這個中小企業佔了百分之九成啊。好,那所以呢,這麼規模,這個增多、周少的情況之下,這樣的計畫是什麼?大、大小。部長要讓你知道,魔鬼就出在這個細節當中。\n\n30\n00:11:07,338 --> 00:11:12,147\n你這個所謂的38億是大帶小,要嘛是一間大的帶四間小的,要嘛就一間大的帶十間小的。\n\n31\n00:11:16,547 --> 00:11:39,531\n部長,如果這個案子下去,你覺得誰會誰會拿最多?當然是大的啊!那個一大袋四的四、一袋十的那個十根本連麵包學都拿不到啊!是,通常都是規模較大的公司拿到較多的資源,剩餘的小公司真的看得到吃不到。再加上審查機制,學者專家的學理專業的審查,對於實務\n\n32\n00:11:42,732 --> 00:11:55,088\n厲有落差的,造成資訊不對等。好,審查機制嚴謹固然是好,卻會讓我中小企業望知卻步。如何建立一個有效的審查機制本席建議補助從寬,查核從嚴。我們現在是補助從嚴,查核也從嚴。\n\n33\n00:12:01,716 --> 00:12:22,416\n所以根本沒有辦法補助我們中小企業者啊。幾乎西半部啊,包括我們昭緯,這個我們都是最很重視,像昭緯也是都對中小企業很著力、很支持的。台中也好、高雄也好,他們的供給區、我們的構建產業都會遇到這個問題啊。好,所以本席有具體的要求。\n\n34\n00:12:27,495 --> 00:12:52,804\n為務實提供中小企業升級及度過寒冬我請你們檢討產業低碳科技應用的補助雖然今年剩下11億建議直接補助中小企業不要再以大代小了讓政府的補助租稅優惠的方案讓中小企業直接受益怎麼在ESG減排製造的鏈接能夠直接的提升最後第二個\n\n35\n00:12:53,624 --> 00:13:16,784\ngines部也請你們重新檢討中小企業申請科技專案的審查機制應該以心力為主防弊為輔要聽好心力為主防弊為輔你們現在是怎麼做以設備其中你們很多項其中針對設備的使用費你們既然是用直線折就60個月好那一計劃使用期限給予補助好這個講起來有點小複雜你們回去問清楚\n\n36\n00:13:19,667 --> 00:13:22,430\n這個合計是什麼?就是視中小企業為小偷啦。百分百的防弊而扼殺了心理的初衷。中小企業根本不可能來申請這樣的計畫。所以在這邊我請你們研議中小企業直接改為中小企業購買機器設備朝總額的比例50%直接補助。\n\n37\n00:13:39,591 --> 00:13:44,295\n那如果他是買國產化的設備,朝全額補助一帶動台灣整體的經濟。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n429\t23155\t請林黛華委員。有請部長。我們再請王部長。在正式質詢之前,本席想知道部長你什麼時候為我高雄市林園區中游工業區下南方的中山地區的這個\n25640\t44428\t賴芷芷議員\n45083\t50048\t我們的新市卿因為在院裡面那院裡面還有一些問題在詢問我們你覺得這個案子應該要跟市卿更新掛鉤嗎那因為對中友來講你有沒有把上次本席所提到的這一塊土地是因為工業區下去之後所造成的污染而導致它農地不能農用農地也不能種植而導致要做相關的工廠\n71307\t85414\t議員柯志恩等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第12條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發\n102602\t102842\t議員柯志恩等19人擬具\n120706\t136401\t你如果連一個社會企業你只會照稿念只會照著行政院給你的稿念那你不用來當部長啊今天我是講人民的心聲因為企業工業區下去所造成的環境汙染林園工業區多久了林園工業區多久了來回答下面的人給部長訊息吧\n147063\t152195\t四十年了,部長。四十年的工業區造成人民土地的污染,\n153683\t168949\t而且是閒置!完全沒有產值欸!你覺得這不應該負起社會責任嗎?中有不應該負起社會責任嗎?工業局不該負起該有的社會責任嗎?請回答是或不是?如果是!那就應該要繼續做吧!裡面這塊土地好好的認定這塊土地應該要做怎麼樣的一個這個\n175052\t187847\t補償作為,你要擴編工業區,然後再做相關的這個協議架構,比照林園區五福里的13到17林區處理。我說這不是個案吶,這有潛力啊。請回答。部長回答。\n192841\t194342\t你心裡的價值要有,你的社會企業的這個價值,社會企業價值在做什麼?\n220183\t229286\t即使中游最後是由中游來協議架構這對他也是ESG啊怎麼不會是ESG的項目呢這也是一個鼓勵的方式啊部長你做了四年欸難得有長官願意挺你挺四年欸\n238612\t246437\t我回答吧,你這句話,有下去會刊,你說你今天,剛才,剛才程翡城委員講說因為你下去會刊,所以今天你要做這個會議的處理。好,那本期這個也請你會刊了。去年欸,有會刊過啦,然後也通過質詢啦。今天再次的質詢啦。那你什麼時候再討論?我要正式的會議結論啦。\n265778\t266859\t我今天站在這邊我就是逼你\n293564\t301227\t你什麼時候開這個會議?再次正式開會議?討論社會企業的ESG要怎麼做?討論社會企業對於環境衝擊該有什麼作為?\n307134\t309036\t我下個禮拜找一個時間,跟同仁交換一個時間。\n327125\t354296\t好,所以是我再問一次什麼時候你召開會議再討論?對,我會下個禮拜找一個時間跟同仁討論。好,現在進行今天的正式質詢。經濟景氣的寒冬政府如何因應?好,這個前提是什麼?我們一直講說臺積電本國是以臺灣這個國家是以出口導向的國家。所以呢,我們除了電子、直通訊、半導體相關的產業一枝獨秀的出口,其他的產業\n355520\t372090\t\n372210\t397533\t好,全球經濟的展望這都是公開的資訊在年初的時候這個公視新聞網也有提也有講到世界銀行針對2024年的初估全球經濟成長率會從去年的2.6降到2.4呈現連三年的衰退的趨勢臺灣就是以出口為導向許多產業在去年是連續好幾季都出現出口訂單衰退的除了\n398454\t415841\t剛才講的這個資通訊、電子以及這個半導體相關產業是一枝獨秀之外其他的出口定單是衰退的甚至部分員工都有放無薪假放無薪假不是本席講的這個是勞動部年初的新聞稿就有七大產業是放無薪假的\n416161\t422747\t好,這個上次諮詢我有提供出來。好,市場憂心了。本國的狀況,全球的經濟展望是這樣的走緩。以諸葛偉導向的台灣,2024年今年是否還能夠保三呢?全年度是否保三呢?要提醒的是,二屋戰爭、以巴戰爭等戰爭持續中,若戰爭的衝突擴大,一定會對全球經濟造成強烈的衝擊。\n440683\t446250\t繼此,臺灣出口訂單也很可能會持續衰退。出口訂單如果衰退持續擴大,經濟部如何讓經濟成長率能夠全年飽散或者降低衰退的幅度?\n455882\t466749\t好,那我們中小企業的困境是什麼?我就以臺經院這一張的資料庫,這也公開訊息兩張圖。第一張是金屬製品,這是跟我高雄市非常指標的產業,構建業。我就以這個金屬產業當中這十年來,中小企業金屬製造業在2014到2020的\n474814\t483498\tbicyncy一時是屬於第一名的一直到2021的時候達到景氣高峰了有了這個景氣分數是16.85景氣的這個燈號是黃紅燈呈陽生的好2021年之後到達高峰之後呐呈現的\n492641\t504027\t會遭封COVID-19,所以疫情短短數個月蔓延全球120個國家,造成全球經濟嚴重衝擊,而各產業的經濟是難以估算損失的,導致2022、2023景氣再度轉為低迷。\n509309\t529756\t好,那這個的另外這張圖呢也對應了這個是相關的景氣訊息圖對應剛才的這個扣件業的這個景氣的訊息是一樣的。疫情過後因缺工缺料原料物原物料的上漲貸款利息的調升等各種的因素導致成本高漲許多中小企業。\n530896\t535238\t有苦說不出也只能苦稱甚至觀察對於國內產業遇到的經濟景氣低迷經濟部你們對中小企業做了什麼事呢?好,爬書一下你們呢這個也針對呢這個疫情過後全球產業啊\n547845\t551428\t朝向這樣的目標在邁進,低碳減排,智慧化的管理,生產設備自動化,而且深化ESG的經營理念。產業升級已經是全球的趨勢勢在必行,而產業升級它要做什麼呢?\n564298\t581156\tadequate 人事成本研發技術購買機器設備都需要投入相當多的資源成本而現在中小企業遇到什麼問題你上面要朝向這個世界趨勢當中所提出的補助方案我們中小企業遇到什麼問題三個第一個缺乏撰寫計畫書的專業人才\n586101\t601570\tadequa沒有足夠人力跟人力進行研發。第三個機器設備過於昂貴了因為要升級啊。那所以呢這是業者無法順利推動產業升級的主要原因。這是本席希望你把這三個原因看好聽好記好。\n603371\t627608\t好,業者一直苦於接不到訂單,又要推動產業升級。中小企業是臺灣的經濟命脈。資本是不如大企業的雄厚,需要政府的大力支持。好,現在你們針對中小企業,雖然有以大代小的補助方案,產業低碳科技應用補助計畫。好,你們有這個計畫。這三年112到114補助38,平均一年是\n628268\t638200\t\n639901\t661513\t好,那這個呢,中小企業呢,是百萬加一百五十幾萬啊。那增多、周少,通常一百五十幾萬是包括這個整個科技業。那當然這個中小企業佔了百分之九成啊。好,那所以呢,這麼規模,這個增多、周少的情況之下,這樣的計畫是什麼?大、大小。部長要讓你知道,魔鬼就出在這個細節當中。\n667338\t672147\t你這個所謂的38億是大帶小,要嘛是一間大的帶四間小的,要嘛就一間大的帶十間小的。\n676547\t699531\t部長,如果這個案子下去,你覺得誰會誰會拿最多?當然是大的啊!那個一大袋四的四、一袋十的那個十根本連麵包學都拿不到啊!是,通常都是規模較大的公司拿到較多的資源,剩餘的小公司真的看得到吃不到。再加上審查機制,學者專家的學理專業的審查,對於實務\n702732\t715088\t厲有落差的,造成資訊不對等。好,審查機制嚴謹固然是好,卻會讓我中小企業望知卻步。如何建立一個有效的審查機制本席建議補助從寬,查核從嚴。我們現在是補助從嚴,查核也從嚴。\n721716\t742416\t所以根本沒有辦法補助我們中小企業者啊。幾乎西半部啊,包括我們昭緯,這個我們都是最很重視,像昭緯也是都對中小企業很著力、很支持的。台中也好、高雄也好,他們的供給區、我們的構建產業都會遇到這個問題啊。好,所以本席有具體的要求。\n747495\t772804\t為務實提供中小企業升級及度過寒冬我請你們檢討產業低碳科技應用的補助雖然今年剩下11億建議直接補助中小企業不要再以大代小了讓政府的補助租稅優惠的方案讓中小企業直接受益怎麼在ESG減排製造的鏈接能夠直接的提升最後第二個\n773624\t796784\tgines部也請你們重新檢討中小企業申請科技專案的審查機制應該以心力為主防弊為輔要聽好心力為主防弊為輔你們現在是怎麼做以設備其中你們很多項其中針對設備的使用費你們既然是用直線折就60個月好那一計劃使用期限給予補助好這個講起來有點小複雜你們回去問清楚\n799667\t802430\t這個合計是什麼?就是視中小企業為小偷啦。百分百的防弊而扼殺了心理的初衷。中小企業根本不可能來申請這樣的計畫。所以在這邊我請你們研議中小企業直接改為中小企業購買機器設備朝總額的比例50%直接補助。\n819591\t824295\t那如果他是買國產化的設備,朝全額補助一帶動台灣整體的經濟。\n","txt":"請林黛華委員。有請部長。我們再請王部長。在正式質詢之前,本席想知道部長你什麼時候為我高雄市林園區中游工業區下南方的中山地區的這個\n賴芷芷議員\n我們的新市卿因為在院裡面那院裡面還有一些問題在詢問我們你覺得這個案子應該要跟市卿更新掛鉤嗎那因為對中友來講你有沒有把上次本席所提到的這一塊土地是因為工業區下去之後所造成的污染而導致它農地不能農用農地也不能種植而導致要做相關的工廠\n議員柯志恩等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第12條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發\n議員柯志恩等19人擬具\n你如果連一個社會企業你只會照稿念只會照著行政院給你的稿念那你不用來當部長啊今天我是講人民的心聲因為企業工業區下去所造成的環境汙染林園工業區多久了林園工業區多久了來回答下面的人給部長訊息吧\n四十年了,部長。四十年的工業區造成人民土地的污染,\n而且是閒置!完全沒有產值欸!你覺得這不應該負起社會責任嗎?中有不應該負起社會責任嗎?工業局不該負起該有的社會責任嗎?請回答是或不是?如果是!那就應該要繼續做吧!裡面這塊土地好好的認定這塊土地應該要做怎麼樣的一個這個\n補償作為,你要擴編工業區,然後再做相關的這個協議架構,比照林園區五福里的13到17林區處理。我說這不是個案吶,這有潛力啊。請回答。部長回答。\n你心裡的價值要有,你的社會企業的這個價值,社會企業價值在做什麼?\n即使中游最後是由中游來協議架構這對他也是ESG啊怎麼不會是ESG的項目呢這也是一個鼓勵的方式啊部長你做了四年欸難得有長官願意挺你挺四年欸\n我回答吧,你這句話,有下去會刊,你說你今天,剛才,剛才程翡城委員講說因為你下去會刊,所以今天你要做這個會議的處理。好,那本期這個也請你會刊了。去年欸,有會刊過啦,然後也通過質詢啦。今天再次的質詢啦。那你什麼時候再討論?我要正式的會議結論啦。\n我今天站在這邊我就是逼你\n你什麼時候開這個會議?再次正式開會議?討論社會企業的ESG要怎麼做?討論社會企業對於環境衝擊該有什麼作為?\n我下個禮拜找一個時間,跟同仁交換一個時間。\n好,所以是我再問一次什麼時候你召開會議再討論?對,我會下個禮拜找一個時間跟同仁討論。好,現在進行今天的正式質詢。經濟景氣的寒冬政府如何因應?好,這個前提是什麼?我們一直講說臺積電本國是以臺灣這個國家是以出口導向的國家。所以呢,我們除了電子、直通訊、半導體相關的產業一枝獨秀的出口,其他的產業\n\n好,全球經濟的展望這都是公開的資訊在年初的時候這個公視新聞網也有提也有講到世界銀行針對2024年的初估全球經濟成長率會從去年的2.6降到2.4呈現連三年的衰退的趨勢臺灣就是以出口為導向許多產業在去年是連續好幾季都出現出口訂單衰退的除了\n剛才講的這個資通訊、電子以及這個半導體相關產業是一枝獨秀之外其他的出口定單是衰退的甚至部分員工都有放無薪假放無薪假不是本席講的這個是勞動部年初的新聞稿就有七大產業是放無薪假的\n好,這個上次諮詢我有提供出來。好,市場憂心了。本國的狀況,全球的經濟展望是這樣的走緩。以諸葛偉導向的台灣,2024年今年是否還能夠保三呢?全年度是否保三呢?要提醒的是,二屋戰爭、以巴戰爭等戰爭持續中,若戰爭的衝突擴大,一定會對全球經濟造成強烈的衝擊。\n繼此,臺灣出口訂單也很可能會持續衰退。出口訂單如果衰退持續擴大,經濟部如何讓經濟成長率能夠全年飽散或者降低衰退的幅度?\n好,那我們中小企業的困境是什麼?我就以臺經院這一張的資料庫,這也公開訊息兩張圖。第一張是金屬製品,這是跟我高雄市非常指標的產業,構建業。我就以這個金屬產業當中這十年來,中小企業金屬製造業在2014到2020的\nbicyncy一時是屬於第一名的一直到2021的時候達到景氣高峰了有了這個景氣分數是16.85景氣的這個燈號是黃紅燈呈陽生的好2021年之後到達高峰之後呐呈現的\n會遭封COVID-19,所以疫情短短數個月蔓延全球120個國家,造成全球經濟嚴重衝擊,而各產業的經濟是難以估算損失的,導致2022、2023景氣再度轉為低迷。\n好,那這個的另外這張圖呢也對應了這個是相關的景氣訊息圖對應剛才的這個扣件業的這個景氣的訊息是一樣的。疫情過後因缺工缺料原料物原物料的上漲貸款利息的調升等各種的因素導致成本高漲許多中小企業。\n有苦說不出也只能苦稱甚至觀察對於國內產業遇到的經濟景氣低迷經濟部你們對中小企業做了什麼事呢?好,爬書一下你們呢這個也針對呢這個疫情過後全球產業啊\n朝向這樣的目標在邁進,低碳減排,智慧化的管理,生產設備自動化,而且深化ESG的經營理念。產業升級已經是全球的趨勢勢在必行,而產業升級它要做什麼呢?\nadequate 人事成本研發技術購買機器設備都需要投入相當多的資源成本而現在中小企業遇到什麼問題你上面要朝向這個世界趨勢當中所提出的補助方案我們中小企業遇到什麼問題三個第一個缺乏撰寫計畫書的專業人才\nadequa沒有足夠人力跟人力進行研發。第三個機器設備過於昂貴了因為要升級啊。那所以呢這是業者無法順利推動產業升級的主要原因。這是本席希望你把這三個原因看好聽好記好。\n好,業者一直苦於接不到訂單,又要推動產業升級。中小企業是臺灣的經濟命脈。資本是不如大企業的雄厚,需要政府的大力支持。好,現在你們針對中小企業,雖然有以大代小的補助方案,產業低碳科技應用補助計畫。好,你們有這個計畫。這三年112到114補助38,平均一年是\n\n好,那這個呢,中小企業呢,是百萬加一百五十幾萬啊。那增多、周少,通常一百五十幾萬是包括這個整個科技業。那當然這個中小企業佔了百分之九成啊。好,那所以呢,這麼規模,這個增多、周少的情況之下,這樣的計畫是什麼?大、大小。部長要讓你知道,魔鬼就出在這個細節當中。\n你這個所謂的38億是大帶小,要嘛是一間大的帶四間小的,要嘛就一間大的帶十間小的。\n部長,如果這個案子下去,你覺得誰會誰會拿最多?當然是大的啊!那個一大袋四的四、一袋十的那個十根本連麵包學都拿不到啊!是,通常都是規模較大的公司拿到較多的資源,剩餘的小公司真的看得到吃不到。再加上審查機制,學者專家的學理專業的審查,對於實務\n厲有落差的,造成資訊不對等。好,審查機制嚴謹固然是好,卻會讓我中小企業望知卻步。如何建立一個有效的審查機制本席建議補助從寬,查核從嚴。我們現在是補助從嚴,查核也從嚴。\n所以根本沒有辦法補助我們中小企業者啊。幾乎西半部啊,包括我們昭緯,這個我們都是最很重視,像昭緯也是都對中小企業很著力、很支持的。台中也好、高雄也好,他們的供給區、我們的構建產業都會遇到這個問題啊。好,所以本席有具體的要求。\n為務實提供中小企業升級及度過寒冬我請你們檢討產業低碳科技應用的補助雖然今年剩下11億建議直接補助中小企業不要再以大代小了讓政府的補助租稅優惠的方案讓中小企業直接受益怎麼在ESG減排製造的鏈接能夠直接的提升最後第二個\ngines部也請你們重新檢討中小企業申請科技專案的審查機制應該以心力為主防弊為輔要聽好心力為主防弊為輔你們現在是怎麼做以設備其中你們很多項其中針對設備的使用費你們既然是用直線折就60個月好那一計劃使用期限給予補助好這個講起來有點小複雜你們回去問清楚\n這個合計是什麼?就是視中小企業為小偷啦。百分百的防弊而扼殺了心理的初衷。中小企業根本不可能來申請這樣的計畫。所以在這邊我請你們研議中小企業直接改為中小企業購買機器設備朝總額的比例50%直接補助。\n那如果他是買國產化的設備,朝全額補助一帶動台灣整體的經濟。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.429 --> 00:23.155\n請林黛華委員。有請部長。我們再請王部長。在正式質詢之前,本席想知道部長你什麼時候為我高雄市林園區中游工業區下南方的中山地區的這個\n\n00:45.083 --> 00:50.048\n我們的新市卿因為在院裡面那院裡面還有一些問題在詢問我們你覺得這個案子應該要跟市卿更新掛鉤嗎那因為對中友來講你有沒有把上次本席所提到的這一塊土地是因為工業區下去之後所造成的污染而導致它農地不能農用農地也不能種植而導致要做相關的工廠\n\n01:11.307 --> 01:25.414\n議員柯志恩等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第12條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發\n\n01:42.602 --> 01:42.842\n議員柯志恩等19人擬具\n\n02:00.706 --> 02:16.401\n你如果連一個社會企業你只會照稿念只會照著行政院給你的稿念那你不用來當部長啊今天我是講人民的心聲因為企業工業區下去所造成的環境汙染林園工業區多久了林園工業區多久了來回答下面的人給部長訊息吧\n\n02:27.063 --> 02:32.195\n四十年了,部長。四十年的工業區造成人民土地的污染,\n\n02:33.683 --> 02:48.949\n而且是閒置!完全沒有產值欸!你覺得這不應該負起社會責任嗎?中有不應該負起社會責任嗎?工業局不該負起該有的社會責任嗎?請回答是或不是?如果是!那就應該要繼續做吧!裡面這塊土地好好的認定這塊土地應該要做怎麼樣的一個這個\n\n02:55.052 --> 03:07.847\n補償作為,你要擴編工業區,然後再做相關的這個協議架構,比照林園區五福里的13到17林區處理。我說這不是個案吶,這有潛力啊。請回答。部長回答。\n\n03:12.841 --> 03:14.342\n你心裡的價值要有,你的社會企業的這個價值,社會企業價值在做什麼?\n\n03:40.183 --> 03:49.286\n即使中游最後是由中游來協議架構這對他也是ESG啊怎麼不會是ESG的項目呢這也是一個鼓勵的方式啊部長你做了四年欸難得有長官願意挺你挺四年欸\n\n03:58.612 --> 04:06.437\n我回答吧,你這句話,有下去會刊,你說你今天,剛才,剛才程翡城委員講說因為你下去會刊,所以今天你要做這個會議的處理。好,那本期這個也請你會刊了。去年欸,有會刊過啦,然後也通過質詢啦。今天再次的質詢啦。那你什麼時候再討論?我要正式的會議結論啦。\n\n04:25.778 --> 04:26.859\n我今天站在這邊我就是逼你\n\n04:53.564 --> 05:01.227\n你什麼時候開這個會議?再次正式開會議?討論社會企業的ESG要怎麼做?討論社會企業對於環境衝擊該有什麼作為?\n\n05:07.134 --> 05:09.036\n我下個禮拜找一個時間,跟同仁交換一個時間。\n\n05:27.125 --> 05:54.296\n好,所以是我再問一次什麼時候你召開會議再討論?對,我會下個禮拜找一個時間跟同仁討論。好,現在進行今天的正式質詢。經濟景氣的寒冬政府如何因應?好,這個前提是什麼?我們一直講說臺積電本國是以臺灣這個國家是以出口導向的國家。所以呢,我們除了電子、直通訊、半導體相關的產業一枝獨秀的出口,其他的產業\n\n06:12.210 --> 06:37.533\n好,全球經濟的展望這都是公開的資訊在年初的時候這個公視新聞網也有提也有講到世界銀行針對2024年的初估全球經濟成長率會從去年的2.6降到2.4呈現連三年的衰退的趨勢臺灣就是以出口為導向許多產業在去年是連續好幾季都出現出口訂單衰退的除了\n\n06:38.454 --> 06:55.841\n剛才講的這個資通訊、電子以及這個半導體相關產業是一枝獨秀之外其他的出口定單是衰退的甚至部分員工都有放無薪假放無薪假不是本席講的這個是勞動部年初的新聞稿就有七大產業是放無薪假的\n\n06:56.161 --> 07:02.747\n好,這個上次諮詢我有提供出來。好,市場憂心了。本國的狀況,全球的經濟展望是這樣的走緩。以諸葛偉導向的台灣,2024年今年是否還能夠保三呢?全年度是否保三呢?要提醒的是,二屋戰爭、以巴戰爭等戰爭持續中,若戰爭的衝突擴大,一定會對全球經濟造成強烈的衝擊。\n\n07:20.683 --> 07:26.250\n繼此,臺灣出口訂單也很可能會持續衰退。出口訂單如果衰退持續擴大,經濟部如何讓經濟成長率能夠全年飽散或者降低衰退的幅度?\n\n07:35.882 --> 07:46.749\n好,那我們中小企業的困境是什麼?我就以臺經院這一張的資料庫,這也公開訊息兩張圖。第一張是金屬製品,這是跟我高雄市非常指標的產業,構建業。我就以這個金屬產業當中這十年來,中小企業金屬製造業在2014到2020的\n\n07:54.814 --> 08:03.498\nbicyncy一時是屬於第一名的一直到2021的時候達到景氣高峰了有了這個景氣分數是16.85景氣的這個燈號是黃紅燈呈陽生的好2021年之後到達高峰之後呐呈現的\n\n08:12.641 --> 08:24.027\n會遭封COVID-19,所以疫情短短數個月蔓延全球120個國家,造成全球經濟嚴重衝擊,而各產業的經濟是難以估算損失的,導致2022、2023景氣再度轉為低迷。\n\n08:29.309 --> 08:49.756\n好,那這個的另外這張圖呢也對應了這個是相關的景氣訊息圖對應剛才的這個扣件業的這個景氣的訊息是一樣的。疫情過後因缺工缺料原料物原物料的上漲貸款利息的調升等各種的因素導致成本高漲許多中小企業。\n\n08:50.896 --> 08:55.238\n有苦說不出也只能苦稱甚至觀察對於國內產業遇到的經濟景氣低迷經濟部你們對中小企業做了什麼事呢?好,爬書一下你們呢這個也針對呢這個疫情過後全球產業啊\n\n09:07.845 --> 09:11.428\n朝向這樣的目標在邁進,低碳減排,智慧化的管理,生產設備自動化,而且深化ESG的經營理念。產業升級已經是全球的趨勢勢在必行,而產業升級它要做什麼呢?\n\n09:24.298 --> 09:41.156\nadequate人事成本研發技術購買機器設備都需要投入相當多的資源成本而現在中小企業遇到什麼問題你上面要朝向這個世界趨勢當中所提出的補助方案我們中小企業遇到什麼問題三個第一個缺乏撰寫計畫書的專業人才\n\n09:46.101 --> 10:01.570\nadequa沒有足夠人力跟人力進行研發。第三個機器設備過於昂貴了因為要升級啊。那所以呢這是業者無法順利推動產業升級的主要原因。這是本席希望你把這三個原因看好聽好記好。\n\n10:03.371 --> 10:27.608\n好,業者一直苦於接不到訂單,又要推動產業升級。中小企業是臺灣的經濟命脈。資本是不如大企業的雄厚,需要政府的大力支持。好,現在你們針對中小企業,雖然有以大代小的補助方案,產業低碳科技應用補助計畫。好,你們有這個計畫。這三年112到114補助38,平均一年是\n\n10:39.901 --> 11:01.513\n好,那這個呢,中小企業呢,是百萬加一百五十幾萬啊。那增多、周少,通常一百五十幾萬是包括這個整個科技業。那當然這個中小企業佔了百分之九成啊。好,那所以呢,這麼規模,這個增多、周少的情況之下,這樣的計畫是什麼?大、大小。部長要讓你知道,魔鬼就出在這個細節當中。\n\n11:07.338 --> 11:12.147\n你這個所謂的38億是大帶小,要嘛是一間大的帶四間小的,要嘛就一間大的帶十間小的。\n\n11:16.547 --> 11:39.531\n部長,如果這個案子下去,你覺得誰會誰會拿最多?當然是大的啊!那個一大袋四的四、一袋十的那個十根本連麵包學都拿不到啊!是,通常都是規模較大的公司拿到較多的資源,剩餘的小公司真的看得到吃不到。再加上審查機制,學者專家的學理專業的審查,對於實務\n\n11:42.732 --> 11:55.088\n厲有落差的,造成資訊不對等。好,審查機制嚴謹固然是好,卻會讓我中小企業望知卻步。如何建立一個有效的審查機制本席建議補助從寬,查核從嚴。我們現在是補助從嚴,查核也從嚴。\n\n12:01.716 --> 12:22.416\n所以根本沒有辦法補助我們中小企業者啊。幾乎西半部啊,包括我們昭緯,這個我們都是最很重視,像昭緯也是都對中小企業很著力、很支持的。台中也好、高雄也好,他們的供給區、我們的構建產業都會遇到這個問題啊。好,所以本席有具體的要求。\n\n12:27.495 --> 12:52.804\n為務實提供中小企業升級及度過寒冬我請你們檢討產業低碳科技應用的補助雖然今年剩下11億建議直接補助中小企業不要再以大代小了讓政府的補助租稅優惠的方案讓中小企業直接受益怎麼在ESG減排製造的鏈接能夠直接的提升最後第二個\n\n12:53.624 --> 13:16.784\ngines部也請你們重新檢討中小企業申請科技專案的審查機制應該以心力為主防弊為輔要聽好心力為主防弊為輔你們現在是怎麼做以設備其中你們很多項其中針對設備的使用費你們既然是用直線折就60個月好那一計劃使用期限給予補助好這個講起來有點小複雜你們回去問清楚\n\n13:19.667 --> 13:22.430\n這個合計是什麼?就是視中小企業為小偷啦。百分百的防弊而扼殺了心理的初衷。中小企業根本不可能來申請這樣的計畫。所以在這邊我請你們研議中小企業直接改為中小企業購買機器設備朝總額的比例50%直接補助。\n\n13:39.591 --> 13:44.295\n那如果他是買國產化的設備,朝全額補助一帶動台灣整體的經濟。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.429,"end":23.155,"text":"請林黛華委員。有請部長。我們再請王部長。在正式質詢之前,本席想知道部長你什麼時候為我高雄市林園區中游工業區下南方的中山地區的這個"},{"start":25.64,"end":44.428,"text":"賴芷芷議員"},{"start":45.083,"end":50.048,"text":"我們的新市卿因為在院裡面那院裡面還有一些問題在詢問我們你覺得這個案子應該要跟市卿更新掛鉤嗎那因為對中友來講你有沒有把上次本席所提到的這一塊土地是因為工業區下去之後所造成的污染而導致它農地不能農用農地也不能種植而導致要做相關的工廠"},{"start":71.307,"end":85.414,"text":"議員柯志恩等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第12條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：立法院議員賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發"},{"start":102.602,"end":102.842,"text":"議員柯志恩等19人擬具"},{"start":120.706,"end":136.401,"text":"你如果連一個社會企業你只會照稿念只會照著行政院給你的稿念那你不用來當部長啊今天我是講人民的心聲因為企業工業區下去所造成的環境汙染林園工業區多久了林園工業區多久了來回答下面的人給部長訊息吧"},{"start":147.063,"end":152.195,"text":"四十年了,部長。四十年的工業區造成人民土地的污染,"},{"start":153.683,"end":168.949,"text":"而且是閒置!完全沒有產值欸!你覺得這不應該負起社會責任嗎?中有不應該負起社會責任嗎?工業局不該負起該有的社會責任嗎?請回答是或不是?如果是!那就應該要繼續做吧!裡面這塊土地好好的認定這塊土地應該要做怎麼樣的一個這個"},{"start":175.052,"end":187.847,"text":"補償作為,你要擴編工業區,然後再做相關的這個協議架構,比照林園區五福里的13到17林區處理。我說這不是個案吶,這有潛力啊。請回答。部長回答。"},{"start":192.841,"end":194.342,"text":"你心裡的價值要有,你的社會企業的這個價值,社會企業價值在做什麼?"},{"start":220.183,"end":229.286,"text":"即使中游最後是由中游來協議架構這對他也是ESG啊怎麼不會是ESG的項目呢這也是一個鼓勵的方式啊部長你做了四年欸難得有長官願意挺你挺四年欸"},{"start":238.612,"end":246.437,"text":"我回答吧,你這句話,有下去會刊,你說你今天,剛才,剛才程翡城委員講說因為你下去會刊,所以今天你要做這個會議的處理。好,那本期這個也請你會刊了。去年欸,有會刊過啦,然後也通過質詢啦。今天再次的質詢啦。那你什麼時候再討論?我要正式的會議結論啦。"},{"start":265.778,"end":266.859,"text":"我今天站在這邊我就是逼你"},{"start":293.564,"end":301.227,"text":"你什麼時候開這個會議?再次正式開會議?討論社會企業的ESG要怎麼做?討論社會企業對於環境衝擊該有什麼作為?"},{"start":307.134,"end":309.036,"text":"我下個禮拜找一個時間,跟同仁交換一個時間。"},{"start":327.125,"end":354.296,"text":"好,所以是我再問一次什麼時候你召開會議再討論?對,我會下個禮拜找一個時間跟同仁討論。好,現在進行今天的正式質詢。經濟景氣的寒冬政府如何因應?好,這個前提是什麼?我們一直講說臺積電本國是以臺灣這個國家是以出口導向的國家。所以呢,我們除了電子、直通訊、半導體相關的產業一枝獨秀的出口,其他的產業"},{"start":355.52,"end":372.09,"text":""},{"start":372.21,"end":397.533,"text":"好,全球經濟的展望這都是公開的資訊在年初的時候這個公視新聞網也有提也有講到世界銀行針對2024年的初估全球經濟成長率會從去年的2.6降到2.4呈現連三年的衰退的趨勢臺灣就是以出口為導向許多產業在去年是連續好幾季都出現出口訂單衰退的除了"},{"start":398.454,"end":415.841,"text":"剛才講的這個資通訊、電子以及這個半導體相關產業是一枝獨秀之外其他的出口定單是衰退的甚至部分員工都有放無薪假放無薪假不是本席講的這個是勞動部年初的新聞稿就有七大產業是放無薪假的"},{"start":416.161,"end":422.747,"text":"好,這個上次諮詢我有提供出來。好,市場憂心了。本國的狀況,全球的經濟展望是這樣的走緩。以諸葛偉導向的台灣,2024年今年是否還能夠保三呢?全年度是否保三呢?要提醒的是,二屋戰爭、以巴戰爭等戰爭持續中,若戰爭的衝突擴大,一定會對全球經濟造成強烈的衝擊。"},{"start":440.683,"end":446.25,"text":"繼此,臺灣出口訂單也很可能會持續衰退。出口訂單如果衰退持續擴大,經濟部如何讓經濟成長率能夠全年飽散或者降低衰退的幅度?"},{"start":455.882,"end":466.749,"text":"好,那我們中小企業的困境是什麼?我就以臺經院這一張的資料庫,這也公開訊息兩張圖。第一張是金屬製品,這是跟我高雄市非常指標的產業,構建業。我就以這個金屬產業當中這十年來,中小企業金屬製造業在2014到2020的"},{"start":474.814,"end":483.498,"text":" bicyncy一時是屬於第一名的一直到2021的時候達到景氣高峰了有了這個景氣分數是16.85景氣的這個燈號是黃紅燈呈陽生的好2021年之後到達高峰之後呐呈現的"},{"start":492.641,"end":504.027,"text":"會遭封COVID-19,所以疫情短短數個月蔓延全球120個國家,造成全球經濟嚴重衝擊,而各產業的經濟是難以估算損失的,導致2022、2023景氣再度轉為低迷。"},{"start":509.309,"end":529.756,"text":"好,那這個的另外這張圖呢也對應了這個是相關的景氣訊息圖對應剛才的這個扣件業的這個景氣的訊息是一樣的。疫情過後因缺工缺料原料物原物料的上漲貸款利息的調升等各種的因素導致成本高漲許多中小企業。"},{"start":530.896,"end":535.238,"text":"有苦說不出也只能苦稱甚至觀察對於國內產業遇到的經濟景氣低迷經濟部你們對中小企業做了什麼事呢?好,爬書一下你們呢這個也針對呢這個疫情過後全球產業啊"},{"start":547.845,"end":551.428,"text":"朝向這樣的目標在邁進,低碳減排,智慧化的管理,生產設備自動化,而且深化ESG的經營理念。產業升級已經是全球的趨勢勢在必行,而產業升級它要做什麼呢?"},{"start":564.298,"end":581.156,"text":"adequate 人事成本研發技術購買機器設備都需要投入相當多的資源成本而現在中小企業遇到什麼問題你上面要朝向這個世界趨勢當中所提出的補助方案我們中小企業遇到什麼問題三個第一個缺乏撰寫計畫書的專業人才"},{"start":586.101,"end":601.57,"text":"adequa沒有足夠人力跟人力進行研發。第三個機器設備過於昂貴了因為要升級啊。那所以呢這是業者無法順利推動產業升級的主要原因。這是本席希望你把這三個原因看好聽好記好。"},{"start":603.371,"end":627.608,"text":"好,業者一直苦於接不到訂單,又要推動產業升級。中小企業是臺灣的經濟命脈。資本是不如大企業的雄厚,需要政府的大力支持。好,現在你們針對中小企業,雖然有以大代小的補助方案,產業低碳科技應用補助計畫。好,你們有這個計畫。這三年112到114補助38,平均一年是"},{"start":628.268,"end":638.2,"text":""},{"start":639.901,"end":661.513,"text":"好,那這個呢,中小企業呢,是百萬加一百五十幾萬啊。那增多、周少,通常一百五十幾萬是包括這個整個科技業。那當然這個中小企業佔了百分之九成啊。好,那所以呢,這麼規模,這個增多、周少的情況之下,這樣的計畫是什麼?大、大小。部長要讓你知道,魔鬼就出在這個細節當中。"},{"start":667.338,"end":672.147,"text":"你這個所謂的38億是大帶小,要嘛是一間大的帶四間小的,要嘛就一間大的帶十間小的。"},{"start":676.547,"end":699.531,"text":"部長,如果這個案子下去,你覺得誰會誰會拿最多?當然是大的啊!那個一大袋四的四、一袋十的那個十根本連麵包學都拿不到啊!是,通常都是規模較大的公司拿到較多的資源,剩餘的小公司真的看得到吃不到。再加上審查機制,學者專家的學理專業的審查,對於實務"},{"start":702.732,"end":715.088,"text":"厲有落差的,造成資訊不對等。好,審查機制嚴謹固然是好,卻會讓我中小企業望知卻步。如何建立一個有效的審查機制本席建議補助從寬,查核從嚴。我們現在是補助從嚴,查核也從嚴。"},{"start":721.716,"end":742.416,"text":"所以根本沒有辦法補助我們中小企業者啊。幾乎西半部啊,包括我們昭緯,這個我們都是最很重視,像昭緯也是都對中小企業很著力、很支持的。台中也好、高雄也好,他們的供給區、我們的構建產業都會遇到這個問題啊。好,所以本席有具體的要求。"},{"start":747.495,"end":772.804,"text":"為務實提供中小企業升級及度過寒冬我請你們檢討產業低碳科技應用的補助雖然今年剩下11億建議直接補助中小企業不要再以大代小了讓政府的補助租稅優惠的方案讓中小企業直接受益怎麼在ESG減排製造的鏈接能夠直接的提升最後第二個"},{"start":773.624,"end":796.784,"text":"gines部也請你們重新檢討中小企業申請科技專案的審查機制應該以心力為主防弊為輔要聽好心力為主防弊為輔你們現在是怎麼做以設備其中你們很多項其中針對設備的使用費你們既然是用直線折就60個月好那一計劃使用期限給予補助好這個講起來有點小複雜你們回去問清楚"},{"start":799.667,"end":802.43,"text":"這個合計是什麼?就是視中小企業為小偷啦。百分百的防弊而扼殺了心理的初衷。中小企業根本不可能來申請這樣的計畫。所以在這邊我請你們研議中小企業直接改為中小企業購買機器設備朝總額的比例50%直接補助。"},{"start":819.591,"end":824.295,"text":"那如果他是買國產化的設備,朝全額補助一帶動台灣整體的經濟。"}]}}}}