{"id":152029,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152029","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6f015fe8e6787db1e24b6c99cb16da82a1f61ce136a0fb9155be169921a0a7176d66689d4447f2305ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"高金素梅","委員發言時間":"10:09:46 - 10:19:39","影片長度":"00:09:53","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:30:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員高金素梅等24人擬具「姓名條例部分條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具「姓名條例部分條文修正草案」案。三、審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人擬具「姓名條例第二條及第四條條文修正草案」案。【詢答及處理；上開議案如經院會復議則不予審查】）","date":"2024-05-02","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第16次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":16,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-16"},"duration":593,"end_time":"2024-05-02T10:19:39+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-02T10:09:46+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":279,"blocks":[["高金委員素梅：（10時9分）謝謝主席，有請部長還有谷縱副主委。"],["主席：請部長還有谷縱副主委。"],["林部長右昌：召委好。"],["高金委員素梅：非常謝謝Kacaw部長，雖然你有阿美族的名字，但是你沒有辦法取得阿美族的身分。但是你身為部長，剛剛在這邊回答不管是巧慧委員也好，或者是今天您的這個書面報告也好，我認為都是立了一個很好的示範，然後讓我們繼續往前走。所以相關的部會，我希望在今天我們這個條文修正之後，能夠落實來執行。然後如果是預算的問題，那麼就請編列預算；如果是技術性問題的話，我們也請戶政司能夠跟原民會充分的做好這個平臺，好嗎？"],["林部長右昌：好，沒有問題，我想這是政府應該做的。"],["高金委員素梅：好，謝謝部長，謝謝。您休息一下，我請谷縱。"],["谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員：委員好。"],["高金委員素梅：好。在審查這個條文之前，我必須要跟大家說明一下，有關原住民姓名使用的文字，我們不會再稱為羅馬拼音。因為大家都說原住民的文字看起來像是羅馬拼音，事實上我們不叫羅馬拼音了，因為各族群，也就是有16個族群，我們有自己的書寫系統，有了，那這個書寫系統，我們是不是請谷縱稍微簡單地跟大家介紹一下，這個書寫系統我們稱為原住民族的文字，對不對？"],["谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員：原住民族文字的書寫系統，其實在民國94年我們跟教育部已經會銜公告，有41種的語言別。"],["高金委員素梅：所以你看得到今天，我要特別講一下，原住民族語言發展法第二條明定「原住民族文字：指用以記錄原住民族語言之書寫系統。」所以我們已經有文字的書寫系統，希望大家不要再誤解，然後說原住民名字的取名都是用羅馬拼音，所以可能未來大家學習的方向還滿多的，所以，今天在我的修法版本已經提出了，在質詢之前也跟大家說明，希望大家能夠清楚，也能夠瞭解。","然後繼續來看一下，2023年12月18日，立法院三讀通過原住民族身分法的修正草案，修法之後，原住民和非原住民結婚（就是我的爸爸跟我媽媽）所生的孩子（就是我）不用再像以前，以前我的名字叫「金素梅」，我要恢復原住民身分，所以我必須要加一個媽媽的姓「高」，所以我叫「高金素梅」。對，這是在2023年12月18日之前，所以大家會覺得為什麼你以前叫「金素梅」，現在叫「高金素梅」，就是在還沒有修法之前，我們必須要把媽媽的姓放前面，才能夠代表我是原住民，這是很荒謬的一個認定，對吧？但是2023年12月18日修法之後就不用了，我們就直接可以加原住民文字的姓名並列，就可以取得原住民身分，對吧？谷縱。"],["谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員：是。"],["高金委員素梅：好。所以我今天要跟副主委反映，這部分我們也看到了幾個問題，就是我的辦公室，我不知道原民會有沒有這個困擾，有很多人很想要回復到原住民的名字，但是他們隨便亂取，而且他們也不知道怎麼取，有時候他是布農族，他取到阿美族的名字，所以在文化認同上面其實是非常混淆的。請問原民會，你們有什麼樣的方式來解決這個問題？"],["谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員：我想誠如剛剛委員所報告，就是這個條文修正之後，我們其實也常常收到我們的族人……"],["高金委員素梅：你們也有嘛，對吧？"],["谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員：對，因為……"],["高金委員素梅：很困擾，對不對？"],["谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員：因為族人到都市就業或是就學之後，長期而言可能有一些就是跟部落的連結，就比較少了……"],["高金委員素梅：是的。對。"],["谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員：少了以後，又加上通婚的關係，那生子或是孫子之後，他們要取名字就找不到他的根源，所以我們都會鼓勵他要回到他的根源，往上源去追溯，就可以追溯到他應有的名字。"],["高金委員素梅：好，所以你應該怎麼做？不能夠被動式的，因為有很多誠如你所說的，已經離開部落很久了，他也許是二代了，那他根本跟部落沒有連結。"],["谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員：那當然第一個，現在針對戶役政機關，我們有做一個恢復傳統姓名的工作指引，不過，面對現在都市化的現實狀況，我想我們原民會有責任針對原住民族的傳統姓名去做一個調查跟整理，可以給我們遷居都市的族人作為依循跟參考，不過，最重要就是他還是要追溯他本身的族跟他的家族……"],["高金委員素梅：好，所以你同意我今天的修法方向嗎？看一下第一條。"],["谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員：關於委員的修法，原則上是可行，不過針對審議的部分，可能會有一些難度。"],["高金委員素梅：有什麼樣的難度？"],["谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員：比如說我舉例，以我家裡的現況就是有通婚，像布農族跟阿美族通婚，那通婚的結果，像我的外甥雖然戶籍登記是寫阿美族，但是他是取我們布農族的名字，因為是他們合意去決定的。另外一個就是我們布農族的取名，像我們家族是名字在前面、氏族在後面，但是有一個家族伊斯坦大是決定氏族名要在前面，所以族人就叫「伊斯坦大……」，就是這樣。所以有很多的狀況可能跟現實……"],["高金委員素梅：您看看您現在就已經舉出兩個例子了，所以事實上原民會是有方式去調查跟研究的嘛！"],["谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員：對。"],["高金委員素梅：只是你們可能沒有把它列為實務上的執行方便，所以在這邊我要求你兩個月之內跟內政部和戶政司研議，你們要提出一些報告，好不好？"],["谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員：這個沒問題。"],["高金委員素梅：好，謝謝。另外，我要建議內政部，我們再請部長，在我們並列原住民族文字的選項上面，我認為應該要遵循族人的意願，中文漢字在前、在上還是原住民族的文字在前、在上，應該要交由族人去選擇，不應該為了行政的方便，然後各機關都通用把中文的漢字擺在前面，把原住民族的文字放在後面，對於原住民命名的指引手冊，是不是請原民會跟戶政單位能夠做一些參考然後來討論，可以嗎？"],["林部長右昌：是，就像剛剛副主委講的……"],["高金委員素梅：也在兩個月之內研議方向跟規劃的報告。"],["林部長右昌：這個沒有問題，因為這個涉及文化跟習俗的部分，謝謝。"],["高金委員素梅：好，謝謝。我在這邊再一次說，原住民族語言發展法第一條已經開宗明義的規定原住民族語言是國家的語言，因此我們族人就可以使用原住民族的文字作為姓名的登記，既然是國家語言，為什麼不可以增加單列原住民族文字的選項呢？所以我要在這邊請部長、副主委還有內政部的戶政司尊重一下我們原民會的立場，也尊重一下族人的立場，可以嗎？"],["林部長右昌：跟委員報告，這個跟現在行政院還有內政部決策的方向是一致的，我們支持也表示尊重。"],["高金委員素梅：好，謝謝。再給我一點時間，我還有一個疑慮，我們請外交部的代表，謝謝。"],["主席：我們請外交部。"],["高金委員素梅：為了節省時間，在你一邊走上台的同時我就先問一下，如果我們族人選擇單列原住民族的文字來命名，我們的護照會不會出現名字跟姓氏顛倒的問題，或者是外交部你們怎麼樣來精準地判別哪一個詞是族人的名字還是家族的姓氏？您剛剛應該也聽到副主委還有其他原住民族的官員在這邊說了自己的名字其實是有意義的，所以在護照上面的使用字數有沒有限制？技術上有沒有問題？"],["林組長秀蓉：報告委員，目前護照上的登載方式是依據戶籍資料上的登載。"],["高金委員素梅：對，所以你的意思是說，戶籍資料如果改變的話，你們外交部的護照上面也會改變？"],["林組長秀蓉：是，我們也會跟著配合。"],["高金委員素梅：這需不需要有預算的編列讓你們的書寫系統來改變？"],["林組長秀蓉：其實軟硬體的系統都要改，然後可能要周知國外各政府機關，因為會變成跟我們現在出去的版本長得不太一樣，所以為了避免原住民族出去造成困擾，到時候可能這個版本也要周知各國。"],["高金委員素梅：好，所以今天我們這些版本或者是今天修法通過的話，你們就要必須要做，對不對？"],["林組長秀蓉：對，我們會配合因應來辦理。"],["高金委員素梅：你們沒有意見吧？"],["林組長秀蓉：沒有。"],["高金委員素梅：好，謝謝。最後，請大家看一下臺北市政府在行政院院會的態度，就是籲請行政院修法支持原住民族單列原住民族文字，所以我希望中央機關也能夠有這樣的態度，今天看起來大家都是往好的方向，非常感謝大家。"],["林部長右昌：是，委員，我跟您報告，剛剛我已經非常明確地表示，中央在政策上我們是支持，那在執行面上也會跟相關部會一起來討論，然後對執行面的部分把它完整的一併做處理，謝謝。"],["高金委員素梅：好，太好了！今天的修法一定會很順利，所以我們也不需要朝野協商，如果今天從委員會出去的話，我們就讓它三讀通過好不好？好，謝謝。mh'uway cimu，這是泰雅族語謝謝你們的意思，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝高金召委的質詢，也謝謝我們部長、副主委還有代理司長。"],["主席（高金委員素梅）：謝謝建賓委員。接著我們請可愛的美惠委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":72,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-16","speakers":["高金素梅","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王美惠","蘇巧慧","張宏陸","李柏毅","黃捷","許宇甄","黃建賓","麥玉珍","吳琪銘","牛煦庭","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","丁學忠","徐欣瑩","張智倫","黃仁","林倩綺"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-05-02"],"gazette_id":"1133801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員高金素梅等24人擬具「姓名條例部分條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員鄭天財 Sra\nKacaw 等21人擬具「姓名條例部分條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe\n等16人擬具「姓名條例第二條及第四條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133801_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"152029","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152029","tool":"pyannote","id":"152029-pyannote"},"job_id":"CGimxDQGwMyPRBDi","queued_at":"2024-05-31 13:51:47","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 13:53:30","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152029"},{"time":"2024-05-31 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\"end\": 95.655, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 99.698, \"end\": 124.403, \"text\": \"所以你看到我們今天我們有特別講一下第二條原住民的文字是指用以來請助理再回來這個以記錄原住民語言的書寫系統所以我們已經有文字的書寫系統了所以希望大家不要再誤解然後說原住民的名字的取名的是用羅馬拼音所以可能為了大家學習的方向還蠻多的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 99.698, \"end\": 99.818, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 99.818, \"end\": 99.878, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 99.878, \"end\": 99.998, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 99.998, \"end\": 100.238, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 100.238, \"end\": 100.458, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 100.458, \"end\": 100.778, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 100.778, \"end\": 100.958, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 100.958, \"end\": 101.618, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 101.618, \"end\": 101.819, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 101.819, \"end\": 102.299, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 102.299, \"end\": 102.439, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 102.439, \"end\": 102.859, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 102.859, \"end\": 102.919, \"score\": 0.727}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 102.919, \"end\": 103.199, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 103.199, \"end\": 103.339, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 103.339, \"end\": 103.759, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 103.759, \"end\": 103.939, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"住\", \"start\": 103.939, \"end\": 104.079, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 104.079, \"end\": 104.179, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 104.179, \"end\": 104.299, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 104.299, \"end\": 104.559, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"字\", \"start\": 104.559, \"end\": 104.819, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 104.819, \"end\": 105.079, 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\"拼\", \"start\": 121.402, \"end\": 121.702, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"音\", \"start\": 121.702, \"end\": 122.302, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 122.302, \"end\": 122.462, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 122.462, \"end\": 122.562, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 122.562, \"end\": 122.682, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 122.682, \"end\": 122.962, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 122.962, \"end\": 123.103, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 123.103, \"end\": 123.243, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 123.243, \"end\": 123.783, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 123.783, \"end\": 123.903, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"習\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 123.903, \"end\": 124.063, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 124.063, \"end\": 124.223, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"向\", \"start\": 124.223, \"end\": 124.363, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"蠻\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 124.363, \"end\": 124.383, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 124.383, \"end\": 124.403, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 126.383, \"end\": 148.392, \"text\": \"所以今天在我的修法版本已經提出了也在質詢之前也跟大家說明希望大家能夠清楚也能夠了解然後繼續來看一下2023年12月18號立法院三讀通過原住民族身份法的修正草案修法之後原住民和非原住民結婚就是我的爸爸跟我媽媽所生的孩子就是我\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 126.383, \"end\": 126.543, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 126.543, \"end\": 126.803, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 126.803, \"end\": 126.984, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 126.984, \"end\": 127.284, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 127.284, \"end\": 127.784, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 127.784, \"end\": 128.164, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 128.164, \"end\": 128.464, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 128.464, \"end\": 128.664, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 128.664, 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\"score\": 0.745}, {\"word\": \"孩\", \"start\": 147.652, \"end\": 147.872, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 147.872, \"end\": 148.092, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 148.092, \"end\": 148.232, \"score\": 0.729}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 148.232, \"end\": 148.372, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 148.372, \"end\": 148.392, \"score\": 0.998}]}, {\"start\": 149.993, \"end\": 174.883, \"text\": \"不再像以前以前我的名字叫金素梅那我要恢復原住民身份所以我必須要加一個媽媽的姓高所以我叫高金素梅對這是在2023年12月18號之前所以大家會覺得為什麼你以前叫金素梅現在叫高金素梅就是我們還沒有修法所以我們必須要把媽媽的姓放前面才能夠代表我是原住民這是很荒謬的一個認定對吧\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 149.993, \"end\": 150.333, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 150.333, \"end\": 150.573, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 150.573, \"end\": 150.853, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 150.853, \"end\": 151.053, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 151.053, \"end\": 151.354, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 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0.8}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 578.215, \"end\": 578.235, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 578.235, \"end\": 578.275, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 578.275, \"end\": 578.395, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 578.395, \"end\": 578.415, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,072 --> 00:00:04,893\n三、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具:「姓名條例部分條文修正草案案。\n\n2\n00:00:18,621 --> 00:00:42,290\n我認為都是立了一個很好的示範然後就讓我們繼續往前走所以相關的部會我希望在今天我們這個條文修正之後能夠落實的來執行然後如果是預算的問題那麼就請預算來編列預算如果是技術性的問題的話我們也請這個副政司能夠跟園民會充分的做好這個平台好嗎\n\n3\n00:00:42,890 --> 00:00:48,901\n二條及第三條及第四條及第五條及第六條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八\n\n4\n00:00:51,259 --> 00:01:15,200\n在我要審查這個條文之前我必須要跟大家說明一下有關原住民姓名使用的文字我們不會再稱為羅馬拼音因為大家都說原住民的這些看起來像是羅馬拼音事實上我們不叫羅馬拼音了因為呢各族群也就是有16個族群我們有自己的書寫系統\n\n5\n00:01:17,262 --> 00:01:35,655\n有了,那這個書寫系統我們是不是請古仲稍微簡單跟大家介紹一下這個書寫系統呢我們稱為原住民族的文字對不對?就是原住民族文字的書寫系統其實在民國94年我們已經跟教育部已經會選公告有41種的語言、語言別\n\n6\n00:01:39,698 --> 00:02:04,403\n所以你看到我們今天我們有特別講一下第二條原住民的文字是指用以來請助理再回來這個以記錄原住民語言的書寫系統所以我們已經有文字的書寫系統了所以希望大家不要再誤解然後說原住民的名字的取名的是用羅馬拼音所以可能為了大家學習的方向還蠻多的\n\n7\n00:02:06,383 --> 00:02:28,392\n所以今天在我的修法版本已經提出了也在質詢之前也跟大家說明希望大家能夠清楚也能夠了解然後繼續來看一下2023年12月18號立法院三讀通過原住民族身份法的修正草案修法之後原住民和非原住民結婚就是我的爸爸跟我媽媽所生的孩子就是我\n\n8\n00:02:29,993 --> 00:02:54,883\n不再像以前以前我的名字叫金素梅那我要恢復原住民身份所以我必須要加一個媽媽的姓高所以我叫高金素梅對這是在2023年12月18號之前所以大家會覺得為什麼你以前叫金素梅現在叫高金素梅就是我們還沒有修法所以我們必須要把媽媽的姓放前面才能夠代表我是原住民這是很荒謬的一個認定對吧\n\n9\n00:02:56,343 --> 00:03:19,651\n但是2023年12月18號修法之後呢就不用了我們就直接可以把這個加原住民的文字的姓名並列就可以取得原住民身份對吧古仲是好所以我今天要跟副主委反映這也也看到了幾個問題就是我辦公室我不知道原民會有沒有這個困擾就是有很多人很想要回復到原住民的名字但是呢他們隨便亂取\n\n10\n00:03:21,112 --> 00:03:42,774\n而且他們也不清到怎麼取有時候他是布農族他取到阿美族的名字所以在文化認同上面其實是非常混淆的請問原民會你們有什麼樣的方式來解決這個問題我想陳祖剛委員所報告就是這個條文修正之後我們其實也常常收到我們的主人\n\n11\n00:03:45,155 --> 00:04:11,850\n因為這個主人到都市就業或是就寫之後呢也長期可能有一些就長期跟部落的連結就比較少了少了以後他們又加上通婚的關係那生子或是孫子之後他們要取名字就找不到他的根源所以我們都會鼓勵他就是要回到他的根源往上緣去追溯就可以追溯到他應有的名字\n\n12\n00:04:12,130 --> 00:04:40,073\n好,所以你應該怎麼做?不能夠被動式的讓他們,因為有很多傳言所說的他已經在部落很久了,他也許是二代了那他根本跟部落沒有連結那當然第一個我們現行就是我們有針對互義政機關我們有做一個恢復傳統姓名的工作指引不過面對現在都市化的一個現行的這個狀況我想我們原民會有責任針對原住民族的姓名\n\n13\n00:04:41,334 --> 00:04:54,780\n傳統姓名去做一個調查跟整理可以給我們千禧都市的族人做一個依循跟參考不過最重要就是他還是要追溯他本身的族跟他的家族所以你同意我今天的修法嗎方向嗎\n\n14\n00:04:56,081 --> 00:05:12,180\n關於委員的修法嚴懲喪失可行不過針對審議的部分可能會有一些難度有什麼樣的難度?比如說我舉例以我家裡的現況就是有通婚像不明組跟阿美組通婚通婚的結果\n\n15\n00:05:13,121 --> 00:05:39,284\n像我的外甥他的名字就取他雖然戶籍登記是寫阿美族但是他是取我們布農族的名字因為他們合意去決定的另外一個就是像我們布農族取名像我們家族是名字在前面氏族在後面但是有一個家族像伊斯坦大他們的家族決定他的氏族名要在前面所以他叫伊斯坦大什麼就是這樣所以有很多的狀況可能跟現實\n\n16\n00:05:41,485 --> 00:06:00,715\n你現在就已經舉了兩個例子了所以事實上原民會你們是有方式去調查跟研究的嘛只是只是你們可能沒有把它列為這個實務上面的這個執行方面所以在這邊我要求你兩個月之內跟內政部和戶政司研議你們要提出一些報告好不好\n\n17\n00:06:01,455 --> 00:06:04,398\n在我們並列原住民族文資的選項上面我認為應該要遵循族人的意願\n\n18\n00:06:13,191 --> 00:06:40,930\n中文漢字在前在上還是原住民族的文字在前在上應該要交由族人去選擇不應該為了行政的方便然後各機關都通用把中文的漢字擺在前面原住民族的文字放在後面所以呢原住民的命名的這個指引手冊我們是不是請園民會跟我們的戶政能夠來來做一些參考然後來討論可以嗎\n\n19\n00:06:44,626 --> 00:06:48,549\n原住民族國家語言發展法第一條已經開宗明義地說原住民族語言是國家的語言,因此我們族人就可以使用原住民族的文字作為姓名的登記。\n\n20\n00:07:08,047 --> 00:07:26,824\n既然是國家議員為什麼我們不可以增加單列原住民族文字的選項呢所以我要在這邊請部長還有我們的副主委還有我們的內政部的護政司對不對請你們來尊重一下我們原民會的立場也尊重一下族人立場可以嗎\n\n21\n00:07:28,396 --> 00:07:29,137\n審查委員高金素梅等24人擬具:「姓名條例第二條及第\n\n22\n00:07:43,709 --> 00:08:11,108\n好來請外交部好我們為了節省時間一邊在行走的過程我就問一下如果我們族人選擇單列原住民族的文字命名我們的護照會不會出現名字跟姓氏顛倒的問題或者是外交部你們怎麼樣來精準的判別哪一個詞是族人的名字還是家族的姓氏您剛剛應該也聽我們副主委還有其他的原住民族的官員在這邊說了自己\n\n23\n00:08:11,288 --> 00:08:18,816\n審查委員的名字其實是有意義的。所以在護照上面的使用,字數有沒有限制?技術上有沒有問題?\n\n24\n00:08:22,170 --> 00:08:50,701\n日報告委員目前護照上的登載方式是依據戶籍資料上的登載對所以你的意思說戶籍資料如果改變的話你們外交部的護照上面也會改變是是好這是需不需要需不需要這個預算的編列讓你們的書寫系統來改變這個軟硬體系統都要改然後可能也要周知國外的各政府機關因為會變成跟我們現在出去的版本長得不太一樣對所以怕避免原住民族出去造成困擾到時候可能這個版本也要周知各國\n\n25\n00:08:51,401 --> 00:09:14,016\n所以今天我們這些版本或是今天修法通過的話,你們就必須要做,對不對?你們沒有意見吧?最後請大家看一下臺北市政府在行政院院會的態度。預期行政院修法支持原住民族單列原住民族文字。所以我也希望中央機關也能夠有這樣的態度。今天看起來大家都是往好的方向。\n\n26\n00:09:14,716 --> 00:09:31,553\n非常感謝大家。是,我跟您報告,剛剛我已經非常明確的表示,這個中央在政策上我們是支持,那也會在執行面上跟相關部會我們來一起討論,然後把這個執行面的部分把它完整的一併做處理,謝謝。\n\n27\n00:09:32,654 --> 00:09:38,415\n審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具:「姓名條例部分條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等21人擬具:「姓名條例第二條及第\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3072\t4893\t三、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具:「姓名條例部分條文修正草案案。\n18621\t42290\t我認為都是立了一個很好的示範然後就讓我們繼續往前走所以相關的部會我希望在今天我們這個條文修正之後能夠落實的來執行然後如果是預算的問題那麼就請預算來編列預算如果是技術性的問題的話我們也請這個副政司能夠跟園民會充分的做好這個平台好嗎\n42890\t48901\t二條及第三條及第四條及第五條及第六條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八\n51259\t75200\t在我要審查這個條文之前我必須要跟大家說明一下有關原住民姓名使用的文字我們不會再稱為羅馬拼音因為大家都說原住民的這些看起來像是羅馬拼音事實上我們不叫羅馬拼音了因為呢各族群也就是有16個族群我們有自己的書寫系統\n77262\t95655\t有了,那這個書寫系統我們是不是請古仲稍微簡單跟大家介紹一下這個書寫系統呢我們稱為原住民族的文字對不對?就是原住民族文字的書寫系統其實在民國94年我們已經跟教育部已經會選公告有41種的語言、語言別\n99698\t124403\t所以你看到我們今天我們有特別講一下第二條原住民的文字是指用以來請助理再回來這個以記錄原住民語言的書寫系統所以我們已經有文字的書寫系統了所以希望大家不要再誤解然後說原住民的名字的取名的是用羅馬拼音所以可能為了大家學習的方向還蠻多的\n126383\t148392\t所以今天在我的修法版本已經提出了也在質詢之前也跟大家說明希望大家能夠清楚也能夠了解然後繼續來看一下2023年12月18號立法院三讀通過原住民族身份法的修正草案修法之後原住民和非原住民結婚就是我的爸爸跟我媽媽所生的孩子就是我\n149993\t174883\t不再像以前以前我的名字叫金素梅那我要恢復原住民身份所以我必須要加一個媽媽的姓高所以我叫高金素梅對這是在2023年12月18號之前所以大家會覺得為什麼你以前叫金素梅現在叫高金素梅就是我們還沒有修法所以我們必須要把媽媽的姓放前面才能夠代表我是原住民這是很荒謬的一個認定對吧\n176343\t199651\t但是2023年12月18號修法之後呢就不用了我們就直接可以把這個加原住民的文字的姓名並列就可以取得原住民身份對吧古仲是好所以我今天要跟副主委反映這也也看到了幾個問題就是我辦公室我不知道原民會有沒有這個困擾就是有很多人很想要回復到原住民的名字但是呢他們隨便亂取\n201112\t222774\t而且他們也不清到怎麼取有時候他是布農族他取到阿美族的名字所以在文化認同上面其實是非常混淆的請問原民會你們有什麼樣的方式來解決這個問題我想陳祖剛委員所報告就是這個條文修正之後我們其實也常常收到我們的主人\n225155\t251850\t因為這個主人到都市就業或是就寫之後呢也長期可能有一些就長期跟部落的連結就比較少了少了以後他們又加上通婚的關係那生子或是孫子之後他們要取名字就找不到他的根源所以我們都會鼓勵他就是要回到他的根源往上緣去追溯就可以追溯到他應有的名字\n252130\t280073\t好,所以你應該怎麼做?不能夠被動式的讓他們,因為有很多傳言所說的他已經在部落很久了,他也許是二代了那他根本跟部落沒有連結那當然第一個我們現行就是我們有針對互義政機關我們有做一個恢復傳統姓名的工作指引不過面對現在都市化的一個現行的這個狀況我想我們原民會有責任針對原住民族的姓名\n281334\t294780\t傳統姓名去做一個調查跟整理可以給我們千禧都市的族人做一個依循跟參考不過最重要就是他還是要追溯他本身的族跟他的家族所以你同意我今天的修法嗎方向嗎\n296081\t312180\t關於委員的修法嚴懲喪失可行不過針對審議的部分可能會有一些難度有什麼樣的難度?比如說我舉例以我家裡的現況就是有通婚像不明組跟阿美組通婚通婚的結果\n313121\t339284\t像我的外甥他的名字就取他雖然戶籍登記是寫阿美族但是他是取我們布農族的名字因為他們合意去決定的另外一個就是像我們布農族取名像我們家族是名字在前面氏族在後面但是有一個家族像伊斯坦大他們的家族決定他的氏族名要在前面所以他叫伊斯坦大什麼就是這樣所以有很多的狀況可能跟現實\n341485\t360715\t你現在就已經舉了兩個例子了所以事實上原民會你們是有方式去調查跟研究的嘛只是只是你們可能沒有把它列為這個實務上面的這個執行方面所以在這邊我要求你兩個月之內跟內政部和戶政司研議你們要提出一些報告好不好\n361455\t364398\t在我們並列原住民族文資的選項上面我認為應該要遵循族人的意願\n373191\t400930\t中文漢字在前在上還是原住民族的文字在前在上應該要交由族人去選擇不應該為了行政的方便然後各機關都通用把中文的漢字擺在前面原住民族的文字放在後面所以呢原住民的命名的這個指引手冊我們是不是請園民會跟我們的戶政能夠來來做一些參考然後來討論可以嗎\n404626\t408549\t原住民族國家語言發展法第一條已經開宗明義地說原住民族語言是國家的語言,因此我們族人就可以使用原住民族的文字作為姓名的登記。\n428047\t446824\t既然是國家議員為什麼我們不可以增加單列原住民族文字的選項呢所以我要在這邊請部長還有我們的副主委還有我們的內政部的護政司對不對請你們來尊重一下我們原民會的立場也尊重一下族人立場可以嗎\n448396\t449137\t審查委員高金素梅等24人擬具:「姓名條例第二條及第\n463709\t491108\t好來請外交部好我們為了節省時間一邊在行走的過程我就問一下如果我們族人選擇單列原住民族的文字命名我們的護照會不會出現名字跟姓氏顛倒的問題或者是外交部你們怎麼樣來精準的判別哪一個詞是族人的名字還是家族的姓氏您剛剛應該也聽我們副主委還有其他的原住民族的官員在這邊說了自己\n491288\t498816\t審查委員的名字其實是有意義的。所以在護照上面的使用,字數有沒有限制?技術上有沒有問題?\n502170\t530701\t日報告委員目前護照上的登載方式是依據戶籍資料上的登載對所以你的意思說戶籍資料如果改變的話你們外交部的護照上面也會改變是是好這是需不需要需不需要這個預算的編列讓你們的書寫系統來改變這個軟硬體系統都要改然後可能也要周知國外的各政府機關因為會變成跟我們現在出去的版本長得不太一樣對所以怕避免原住民族出去造成困擾到時候可能這個版本也要周知各國\n531401\t554016\t所以今天我們這些版本或是今天修法通過的話,你們就必須要做,對不對?你們沒有意見吧?最後請大家看一下臺北市政府在行政院院會的態度。預期行政院修法支持原住民族單列原住民族文字。所以我也希望中央機關也能夠有這樣的態度。今天看起來大家都是往好的方向。\n554716\t571553\t非常感謝大家。是,我跟您報告,剛剛我已經非常明確的表示,這個中央在政策上我們是支持,那也會在執行面上跟相關部會我們來一起討論,然後把這個執行面的部分把它完整的一併做處理,謝謝。\n572654\t578415\t審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具:「姓名條例部分條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「姓名條例第二條及第\n","txt":"三、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具:「姓名條例部分條文修正草案案。\n我認為都是立了一個很好的示範然後就讓我們繼續往前走所以相關的部會我希望在今天我們這個條文修正之後能夠落實的來執行然後如果是預算的問題那麼就請預算來編列預算如果是技術性的問題的話我們也請這個副政司能夠跟園民會充分的做好這個平台好嗎\n二條及第三條及第四條及第五條及第六條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八\n在我要審查這個條文之前我必須要跟大家說明一下有關原住民姓名使用的文字我們不會再稱為羅馬拼音因為大家都說原住民的這些看起來像是羅馬拼音事實上我們不叫羅馬拼音了因為呢各族群也就是有16個族群我們有自己的書寫系統\n有了,那這個書寫系統我們是不是請古仲稍微簡單跟大家介紹一下這個書寫系統呢我們稱為原住民族的文字對不對?就是原住民族文字的書寫系統其實在民國94年我們已經跟教育部已經會選公告有41種的語言、語言別\n所以你看到我們今天我們有特別講一下第二條原住民的文字是指用以來請助理再回來這個以記錄原住民語言的書寫系統所以我們已經有文字的書寫系統了所以希望大家不要再誤解然後說原住民的名字的取名的是用羅馬拼音所以可能為了大家學習的方向還蠻多的\n所以今天在我的修法版本已經提出了也在質詢之前也跟大家說明希望大家能夠清楚也能夠了解然後繼續來看一下2023年12月18號立法院三讀通過原住民族身份法的修正草案修法之後原住民和非原住民結婚就是我的爸爸跟我媽媽所生的孩子就是我\n不再像以前以前我的名字叫金素梅那我要恢復原住民身份所以我必須要加一個媽媽的姓高所以我叫高金素梅對這是在2023年12月18號之前所以大家會覺得為什麼你以前叫金素梅現在叫高金素梅就是我們還沒有修法所以我們必須要把媽媽的姓放前面才能夠代表我是原住民這是很荒謬的一個認定對吧\n但是2023年12月18號修法之後呢就不用了我們就直接可以把這個加原住民的文字的姓名並列就可以取得原住民身份對吧古仲是好所以我今天要跟副主委反映這也也看到了幾個問題就是我辦公室我不知道原民會有沒有這個困擾就是有很多人很想要回復到原住民的名字但是呢他們隨便亂取\n而且他們也不清到怎麼取有時候他是布農族他取到阿美族的名字所以在文化認同上面其實是非常混淆的請問原民會你們有什麼樣的方式來解決這個問題我想陳祖剛委員所報告就是這個條文修正之後我們其實也常常收到我們的主人\n因為這個主人到都市就業或是就寫之後呢也長期可能有一些就長期跟部落的連結就比較少了少了以後他們又加上通婚的關係那生子或是孫子之後他們要取名字就找不到他的根源所以我們都會鼓勵他就是要回到他的根源往上緣去追溯就可以追溯到他應有的名字\n好,所以你應該怎麼做?不能夠被動式的讓他們,因為有很多傳言所說的他已經在部落很久了,他也許是二代了那他根本跟部落沒有連結那當然第一個我們現行就是我們有針對互義政機關我們有做一個恢復傳統姓名的工作指引不過面對現在都市化的一個現行的這個狀況我想我們原民會有責任針對原住民族的姓名\n傳統姓名去做一個調查跟整理可以給我們千禧都市的族人做一個依循跟參考不過最重要就是他還是要追溯他本身的族跟他的家族所以你同意我今天的修法嗎方向嗎\n關於委員的修法嚴懲喪失可行不過針對審議的部分可能會有一些難度有什麼樣的難度?比如說我舉例以我家裡的現況就是有通婚像不明組跟阿美組通婚通婚的結果\n像我的外甥他的名字就取他雖然戶籍登記是寫阿美族但是他是取我們布農族的名字因為他們合意去決定的另外一個就是像我們布農族取名像我們家族是名字在前面氏族在後面但是有一個家族像伊斯坦大他們的家族決定他的氏族名要在前面所以他叫伊斯坦大什麼就是這樣所以有很多的狀況可能跟現實\n你現在就已經舉了兩個例子了所以事實上原民會你們是有方式去調查跟研究的嘛只是只是你們可能沒有把它列為這個實務上面的這個執行方面所以在這邊我要求你兩個月之內跟內政部和戶政司研議你們要提出一些報告好不好\n在我們並列原住民族文資的選項上面我認為應該要遵循族人的意願\n中文漢字在前在上還是原住民族的文字在前在上應該要交由族人去選擇不應該為了行政的方便然後各機關都通用把中文的漢字擺在前面原住民族的文字放在後面所以呢原住民的命名的這個指引手冊我們是不是請園民會跟我們的戶政能夠來來做一些參考然後來討論可以嗎\n原住民族國家語言發展法第一條已經開宗明義地說原住民族語言是國家的語言,因此我們族人就可以使用原住民族的文字作為姓名的登記。\n既然是國家議員為什麼我們不可以增加單列原住民族文字的選項呢所以我要在這邊請部長還有我們的副主委還有我們的內政部的護政司對不對請你們來尊重一下我們原民會的立場也尊重一下族人立場可以嗎\n審查委員高金素梅等24人擬具:「姓名條例第二條及第\n好來請外交部好我們為了節省時間一邊在行走的過程我就問一下如果我們族人選擇單列原住民族的文字命名我們的護照會不會出現名字跟姓氏顛倒的問題或者是外交部你們怎麼樣來精準的判別哪一個詞是族人的名字還是家族的姓氏您剛剛應該也聽我們副主委還有其他的原住民族的官員在這邊說了自己\n審查委員的名字其實是有意義的。所以在護照上面的使用,字數有沒有限制?技術上有沒有問題?\n日報告委員目前護照上的登載方式是依據戶籍資料上的登載對所以你的意思說戶籍資料如果改變的話你們外交部的護照上面也會改變是是好這是需不需要需不需要這個預算的編列讓你們的書寫系統來改變這個軟硬體系統都要改然後可能也要周知國外的各政府機關因為會變成跟我們現在出去的版本長得不太一樣對所以怕避免原住民族出去造成困擾到時候可能這個版本也要周知各國\n所以今天我們這些版本或是今天修法通過的話,你們就必須要做,對不對?你們沒有意見吧?最後請大家看一下臺北市政府在行政院院會的態度。預期行政院修法支持原住民族單列原住民族文字。所以我也希望中央機關也能夠有這樣的態度。今天看起來大家都是往好的方向。\n非常感謝大家。是,我跟您報告,剛剛我已經非常明確的表示,這個中央在政策上我們是支持,那也會在執行面上跟相關部會我們來一起討論,然後把這個執行面的部分把它完整的一併做處理,謝謝。\n審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具:「姓名條例部分條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「姓名條例第二條及第\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.072 --> 00:04.893\n三、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具:「姓名條例部分條文修正草案案。\n\n00:18.621 --> 00:42.290\n我認為都是立了一個很好的示範然後就讓我們繼續往前走所以相關的部會我希望在今天我們這個條文修正之後能夠落實的來執行然後如果是預算的問題那麼就請預算來編列預算如果是技術性的問題的話我們也請這個副政司能夠跟園民會充分的做好這個平台好嗎\n\n00:42.890 --> 00:48.901\n二條及第三條及第四條及第五條及第六條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八\n\n00:51.259 --> 01:15.200\n在我要審查這個條文之前我必須要跟大家說明一下有關原住民姓名使用的文字我們不會再稱為羅馬拼音因為大家都說原住民的這些看起來像是羅馬拼音事實上我們不叫羅馬拼音了因為呢各族群也就是有16個族群我們有自己的書寫系統\n\n01:17.262 --> 01:35.655\n有了,那這個書寫系統我們是不是請古仲稍微簡單跟大家介紹一下這個書寫系統呢我們稱為原住民族的文字對不對?就是原住民族文字的書寫系統其實在民國94年我們已經跟教育部已經會選公告有41種的語言、語言別\n\n01:39.698 --> 02:04.403\n所以你看到我們今天我們有特別講一下第二條原住民的文字是指用以來請助理再回來這個以記錄原住民語言的書寫系統所以我們已經有文字的書寫系統了所以希望大家不要再誤解然後說原住民的名字的取名的是用羅馬拼音所以可能為了大家學習的方向還蠻多的\n\n02:06.383 --> 02:28.392\n所以今天在我的修法版本已經提出了也在質詢之前也跟大家說明希望大家能夠清楚也能夠了解然後繼續來看一下2023年12月18號立法院三讀通過原住民族身份法的修正草案修法之後原住民和非原住民結婚就是我的爸爸跟我媽媽所生的孩子就是我\n\n02:29.993 --> 02:54.883\n不再像以前以前我的名字叫金素梅那我要恢復原住民身份所以我必須要加一個媽媽的姓高所以我叫高金素梅對這是在2023年12月18號之前所以大家會覺得為什麼你以前叫金素梅現在叫高金素梅就是我們還沒有修法所以我們必須要把媽媽的姓放前面才能夠代表我是原住民這是很荒謬的一個認定對吧\n\n02:56.343 --> 03:19.651\n但是2023年12月18號修法之後呢就不用了我們就直接可以把這個加原住民的文字的姓名並列就可以取得原住民身份對吧古仲是好所以我今天要跟副主委反映這也也看到了幾個問題就是我辦公室我不知道原民會有沒有這個困擾就是有很多人很想要回復到原住民的名字但是呢他們隨便亂取\n\n03:21.112 --> 03:42.774\n而且他們也不清到怎麼取有時候他是布農族他取到阿美族的名字所以在文化認同上面其實是非常混淆的請問原民會你們有什麼樣的方式來解決這個問題我想陳祖剛委員所報告就是這個條文修正之後我們其實也常常收到我們的主人\n\n03:45.155 --> 04:11.850\n因為這個主人到都市就業或是就寫之後呢也長期可能有一些就長期跟部落的連結就比較少了少了以後他們又加上通婚的關係那生子或是孫子之後他們要取名字就找不到他的根源所以我們都會鼓勵他就是要回到他的根源往上緣去追溯就可以追溯到他應有的名字\n\n04:12.130 --> 04:40.073\n好,所以你應該怎麼做?不能夠被動式的讓他們,因為有很多傳言所說的他已經在部落很久了,他也許是二代了那他根本跟部落沒有連結那當然第一個我們現行就是我們有針對互義政機關我們有做一個恢復傳統姓名的工作指引不過面對現在都市化的一個現行的這個狀況我想我們原民會有責任針對原住民族的姓名\n\n04:41.334 --> 04:54.780\n傳統姓名去做一個調查跟整理可以給我們千禧都市的族人做一個依循跟參考不過最重要就是他還是要追溯他本身的族跟他的家族所以你同意我今天的修法嗎方向嗎\n\n04:56.081 --> 05:12.180\n關於委員的修法嚴懲喪失可行不過針對審議的部分可能會有一些難度有什麼樣的難度?比如說我舉例以我家裡的現況就是有通婚像不明組跟阿美組通婚通婚的結果\n\n05:13.121 --> 05:39.284\n像我的外甥他的名字就取他雖然戶籍登記是寫阿美族但是他是取我們布農族的名字因為他們合意去決定的另外一個就是像我們布農族取名像我們家族是名字在前面氏族在後面但是有一個家族像伊斯坦大他們的家族決定他的氏族名要在前面所以他叫伊斯坦大什麼就是這樣所以有很多的狀況可能跟現實\n\n05:41.485 --> 06:00.715\n你現在就已經舉了兩個例子了所以事實上原民會你們是有方式去調查跟研究的嘛只是只是你們可能沒有把它列為這個實務上面的這個執行方面所以在這邊我要求你兩個月之內跟內政部和戶政司研議你們要提出一些報告好不好\n\n06:01.455 --> 06:04.398\n在我們並列原住民族文資的選項上面我認為應該要遵循族人的意願\n\n06:13.191 --> 06:40.930\n中文漢字在前在上還是原住民族的文字在前在上應該要交由族人去選擇不應該為了行政的方便然後各機關都通用把中文的漢字擺在前面原住民族的文字放在後面所以呢原住民的命名的這個指引手冊我們是不是請園民會跟我們的戶政能夠來來做一些參考然後來討論可以嗎\n\n06:44.626 --> 06:48.549\n原住民族國家語言發展法第一條已經開宗明義地說原住民族語言是國家的語言,因此我們族人就可以使用原住民族的文字作為姓名的登記。\n\n07:08.047 --> 07:26.824\n既然是國家議員為什麼我們不可以增加單列原住民族文字的選項呢所以我要在這邊請部長還有我們的副主委還有我們的內政部的護政司對不對請你們來尊重一下我們原民會的立場也尊重一下族人立場可以嗎\n\n07:28.396 --> 07:29.137\n審查委員高金素梅等24人擬具:「姓名條例第二條及第\n\n07:43.709 --> 08:11.108\n好來請外交部好我們為了節省時間一邊在行走的過程我就問一下如果我們族人選擇單列原住民族的文字命名我們的護照會不會出現名字跟姓氏顛倒的問題或者是外交部你們怎麼樣來精準的判別哪一個詞是族人的名字還是家族的姓氏您剛剛應該也聽我們副主委還有其他的原住民族的官員在這邊說了自己\n\n08:11.288 --> 08:18.816\n審查委員的名字其實是有意義的。所以在護照上面的使用,字數有沒有限制?技術上有沒有問題?\n\n08:22.170 --> 08:50.701\n日報告委員目前護照上的登載方式是依據戶籍資料上的登載對所以你的意思說戶籍資料如果改變的話你們外交部的護照上面也會改變是是好這是需不需要需不需要這個預算的編列讓你們的書寫系統來改變這個軟硬體系統都要改然後可能也要周知國外的各政府機關因為會變成跟我們現在出去的版本長得不太一樣對所以怕避免原住民族出去造成困擾到時候可能這個版本也要周知各國\n\n08:51.401 --> 09:14.016\n所以今天我們這些版本或是今天修法通過的話,你們就必須要做,對不對?你們沒有意見吧?最後請大家看一下臺北市政府在行政院院會的態度。預期行政院修法支持原住民族單列原住民族文字。所以我也希望中央機關也能夠有這樣的態度。今天看起來大家都是往好的方向。\n\n09:14.716 --> 09:31.553\n非常感謝大家。是,我跟您報告,剛剛我已經非常明確的表示,這個中央在政策上我們是支持,那也會在執行面上跟相關部會我們來一起討論,然後把這個執行面的部分把它完整的一併做處理,謝謝。\n\n09:32.654 --> 09:38.415\n審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具:「姓名條例部分條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等21人擬具:「姓名條例第二條及第\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.072,"end":4.893,"text":"三、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具:「姓名條例部分條文修正草案案。"},{"start":18.621,"end":42.29,"text":"我認為都是立了一個很好的示範然後就讓我們繼續往前走所以相關的部會我希望在今天我們這個條文修正之後能夠落實的來執行然後如果是預算的問題那麼就請預算來編列預算如果是技術性的問題的話我們也請這個副政司能夠跟園民會充分的做好這個平台好嗎"},{"start":42.89,"end":48.901,"text":"二條及第三條及第四條及第五條及第六條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八條及第八"},{"start":51.259,"end":75.2,"text":"在我要審查這個條文之前我必須要跟大家說明一下有關原住民姓名使用的文字我們不會再稱為羅馬拼音因為大家都說原住民的這些看起來像是羅馬拼音事實上我們不叫羅馬拼音了因為呢各族群也就是有16個族群我們有自己的書寫系統"},{"start":77.262,"end":95.655,"text":"有了,那這個書寫系統我們是不是請古仲稍微簡單跟大家介紹一下這個書寫系統呢我們稱為原住民族的文字對不對?就是原住民族文字的書寫系統其實在民國94年我們已經跟教育部已經會選公告有41種的語言、語言別"},{"start":99.698,"end":124.403,"text":"所以你看到我們今天我們有特別講一下第二條原住民的文字是指用以來請助理再回來這個以記錄原住民語言的書寫系統所以我們已經有文字的書寫系統了所以希望大家不要再誤解然後說原住民的名字的取名的是用羅馬拼音所以可能為了大家學習的方向還蠻多的"},{"start":126.383,"end":148.392,"text":"所以今天在我的修法版本已經提出了也在質詢之前也跟大家說明希望大家能夠清楚也能夠了解然後繼續來看一下2023年12月18號立法院三讀通過原住民族身份法的修正草案修法之後原住民和非原住民結婚就是我的爸爸跟我媽媽所生的孩子就是我"},{"start":149.993,"end":174.883,"text":"不再像以前以前我的名字叫金素梅那我要恢復原住民身份所以我必須要加一個媽媽的姓高所以我叫高金素梅對這是在2023年12月18號之前所以大家會覺得為什麼你以前叫金素梅現在叫高金素梅就是我們還沒有修法所以我們必須要把媽媽的姓放前面才能夠代表我是原住民這是很荒謬的一個認定對吧"},{"start":176.343,"end":199.651,"text":"但是2023年12月18號修法之後呢就不用了我們就直接可以把這個加原住民的文字的姓名並列就可以取得原住民身份對吧古仲是好所以我今天要跟副主委反映這也也看到了幾個問題就是我辦公室我不知道原民會有沒有這個困擾就是有很多人很想要回復到原住民的名字但是呢他們隨便亂取"},{"start":201.112,"end":222.774,"text":"而且他們也不清到怎麼取有時候他是布農族他取到阿美族的名字所以在文化認同上面其實是非常混淆的請問原民會你們有什麼樣的方式來解決這個問題我想陳祖剛委員所報告就是這個條文修正之後我們其實也常常收到我們的主人"},{"start":225.155,"end":251.85,"text":"因為這個主人到都市就業或是就寫之後呢也長期可能有一些就長期跟部落的連結就比較少了少了以後他們又加上通婚的關係那生子或是孫子之後他們要取名字就找不到他的根源所以我們都會鼓勵他就是要回到他的根源往上緣去追溯就可以追溯到他應有的名字"},{"start":252.13,"end":280.073,"text":"好,所以你應該怎麼做?不能夠被動式的讓他們,因為有很多傳言所說的他已經在部落很久了,他也許是二代了那他根本跟部落沒有連結那當然第一個我們現行就是我們有針對互義政機關我們有做一個恢復傳統姓名的工作指引不過面對現在都市化的一個現行的這個狀況我想我們原民會有責任針對原住民族的姓名"},{"start":281.334,"end":294.78,"text":"傳統姓名去做一個調查跟整理可以給我們千禧都市的族人做一個依循跟參考不過最重要就是他還是要追溯他本身的族跟他的家族所以你同意我今天的修法嗎方向嗎"},{"start":296.081,"end":312.18,"text":"關於委員的修法嚴懲喪失可行不過針對審議的部分可能會有一些難度有什麼樣的難度?比如說我舉例以我家裡的現況就是有通婚像不明組跟阿美組通婚通婚的結果"},{"start":313.121,"end":339.284,"text":"像我的外甥他的名字就取他雖然戶籍登記是寫阿美族但是他是取我們布農族的名字因為他們合意去決定的另外一個就是像我們布農族取名像我們家族是名字在前面氏族在後面但是有一個家族像伊斯坦大他們的家族決定他的氏族名要在前面所以他叫伊斯坦大什麼就是這樣所以有很多的狀況可能跟現實"},{"start":341.485,"end":360.715,"text":"你現在就已經舉了兩個例子了所以事實上原民會你們是有方式去調查跟研究的嘛只是只是你們可能沒有把它列為這個實務上面的這個執行方面所以在這邊我要求你兩個月之內跟內政部和戶政司研議你們要提出一些報告好不好"},{"start":361.455,"end":364.398,"text":"在我們並列原住民族文資的選項上面我認為應該要遵循族人的意願"},{"start":373.191,"end":400.93,"text":"中文漢字在前在上還是原住民族的文字在前在上應該要交由族人去選擇不應該為了行政的方便然後各機關都通用把中文的漢字擺在前面原住民族的文字放在後面所以呢原住民的命名的這個指引手冊我們是不是請園民會跟我們的戶政能夠來來做一些參考然後來討論可以嗎"},{"start":404.626,"end":408.549,"text":"原住民族國家語言發展法第一條已經開宗明義地說原住民族語言是國家的語言,因此我們族人就可以使用原住民族的文字作為姓名的登記。"},{"start":428.047,"end":446.824,"text":"既然是國家議員為什麼我們不可以增加單列原住民族文字的選項呢所以我要在這邊請部長還有我們的副主委還有我們的內政部的護政司對不對請你們來尊重一下我們原民會的立場也尊重一下族人立場可以嗎"},{"start":448.396,"end":449.137,"text":"審查委員高金素梅等24人擬具:「姓名條例第二條及第"},{"start":463.709,"end":491.108,"text":"好來請外交部好我們為了節省時間一邊在行走的過程我就問一下如果我們族人選擇單列原住民族的文字命名我們的護照會不會出現名字跟姓氏顛倒的問題或者是外交部你們怎麼樣來精準的判別哪一個詞是族人的名字還是家族的姓氏您剛剛應該也聽我們副主委還有其他的原住民族的官員在這邊說了自己"},{"start":491.288,"end":498.816,"text":"審查委員的名字其實是有意義的。所以在護照上面的使用,字數有沒有限制?技術上有沒有問題?"},{"start":502.17,"end":530.701,"text":"日報告委員目前護照上的登載方式是依據戶籍資料上的登載對所以你的意思說戶籍資料如果改變的話你們外交部的護照上面也會改變是是好這是需不需要需不需要這個預算的編列讓你們的書寫系統來改變這個軟硬體系統都要改然後可能也要周知國外的各政府機關因為會變成跟我們現在出去的版本長得不太一樣對所以怕避免原住民族出去造成困擾到時候可能這個版本也要周知各國"},{"start":531.401,"end":554.016,"text":"所以今天我們這些版本或是今天修法通過的話,你們就必須要做,對不對?你們沒有意見吧?最後請大家看一下臺北市政府在行政院院會的態度。預期行政院修法支持原住民族單列原住民族文字。所以我也希望中央機關也能夠有這樣的態度。今天看起來大家都是往好的方向。"},{"start":554.716,"end":571.553,"text":"非常感謝大家。是,我跟您報告,剛剛我已經非常明確的表示,這個中央在政策上我們是支持,那也會在執行面上跟相關部會我們來一起討論,然後把這個執行面的部分把它完整的一併做處理,謝謝。"},{"start":572.654,"end":578.415,"text":"審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具:「姓名條例部分條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「姓名條例第二條及第"}]}}}}