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10:29:09","影片長度":"00:08:32","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告「外交部如何構建友善工作環境暨人員心理輔導具體做法」，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-02","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第17次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":17,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-17"},"duration":512,"end_time":"2024-05-02T10:29:09+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-02T10:20:37+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":324,"blocks":[["洪委員申翰：（10時20分）請吳部長。"],["主席：請吳部長。"],["吳部長釗燮：洪委員好。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，捍衛國家的利益跟捍衛國家的立場，尤其是在我們面對中國這麼大的威脅之下，其實這是一件非常辛苦的事情，所以在今天的質詢之前，我想針對這部分先跟外交部的同仁表達一聲我非常非常深地敬意，因為這件事情也包括剛剛我們在質詢的過程裡面，我也清楚地知道部長要捍衛立場，其實是以一個非常深切的心情，所以做了很多的表達。"],["吳部長釗燮：謝謝委員。"],["洪委員申翰：但是今天還是想跟部長來討論幾件事情，其實我今天想跟部長討論的事情，之前也有幾個委員曾經在外交國防委員會裡面有提到，包括在野黨的委員。部長，今年年初發生了一件事情，就是丹麥政府片面地將臺灣居民居留證的出生地改成了中國，我想部長一定知道這件事情，這是一件很嚴重的事情。據我所知，外交部當然有向丹麥政府抗議這件事情，但目前丹麥政府並沒有改善的動作。部長，你覺得原因是什麼？"],["吳部長釗燮：跟委員報告，有關這件事情，的確，我們在丹麥的這些僑界的人士，或者是丹麥的好朋友，和我們大使館的同仁，注意到這件事情之後我們都想盡辦法，希望丹麥政府能夠改善。我們透過很多的努力，包括我自己接受丹麥報紙的訪問，這個刊登出來的篇幅是很大的，我想丹麥的外交部也有發現這是一個問題，但是他們當地處理這件事情的registration並不是丹麥的外交部，所以現在他們內部還在討論當中，也希望他們能夠很快地改善。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，其實這段時間也有很多旅居丹麥的國人來跟我們陳情，說現在他們居留證上面因為國籍欄直接被改成標示China（CHN），所以等於現在對丹麥政府來說，是把他們註記為中國的公民。部長，你知不知道，把他們註記成中國公民，對他們整體的生活帶來什麼樣的影響？外交部有沒有相關的報告？"],["吳部長釗燮：我們沒有相關的報告，但是這個是一個大家都可以想像到的事情，就是中國在海外的reputation並不是很好，如果我們被當成中國人的話，我想這個對我們的臺僑來講，是絕對不公平的事情。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，這可能不是reputation的問題而已喔！目前為止，這些是我們旅居丹麥的國人反映的，這裡面有非常非常多實質的生活問題，包括像銀行的開戶、商業的保險、結婚的登記，接下來如果有一些跨國的離婚訴訟，或者是財產分配的訴訟時，因為你現在被註記為中國公民，所以後面可能都會有相關司法管轄權的問題，這是第一個。","第二個，因為丹麥是一個高度數位化的國家，所以他們其實很多是使用他們叫做MitID的作法來運用他們的數位身分，因為他們不承認臺灣的護照，所以都必須要用居留證來啟用MitID，現在變成他用MitID這個數位身分要去連結到的各種文件，上面都會被標註他是中國人或中國公民。再來，外交部當然很努力，很多國家我們都有免簽的待遇，但我們要進出很多國家都需要去確認你的護照跟你的居留證是否是一致的。"],["吳部長釗燮：對。"],["洪委員申翰：在這個狀況下，他們的護照跟居留證在要去進出很多國家的時候，就會被辨識為是不一致的狀況，這會影響他們很多的權益，包括我們自己在很多國家有簽租稅協議，所以現在在這個狀況之下，當他們被標註為中國人的時候，這些相關的租稅協議還適不適用，這都是問題，所以這不只是名譽上面的問題而已，這是很多實質上面生活的問題。我自己認為恐怕外交部需要把他們在當地遇到的實質問題做一個更清楚的掌握。","部長，我今天跟你談這件事情並不是要去譴責為什麼丹麥政府做這件事情，我們知道我們的外交處境是很艱辛的，遇到這個事情我們可以理解，但我這邊想跟部長表達的事情是，其實我們在丹麥的這些國人坦白說現在是有一波、一波的自救行動，但是他們跟我反映，相對於其他的辦事處，他們確實感覺我們駐丹麥的辦事處是相對消極的、是相對沒有讓他們感覺到成為他們這些自救行動一個強力的靠山的，包括在各種態度的表達上面、在各種能做的事情上面好像沒有盡全力。這是現在這些我們住在丹麥的國人來跟我們表達他們很遺憾的事情或者很擔憂的事情，他們沒有覺得在這件事情上面，我們的辦事處是他們強力的靠山。部長，這件事情你覺得呢？"],["吳部長釗燮：這個是我沒有聽到的，但是既然委員跟我講了，那我就來……"],["洪委員申翰：這不是一個人表達而已，他們用很多陳情的管道在各方陳情這件事情。我覺得他們都有很強烈的臺灣心和臺灣主體意識，我覺得這部分沒有問題，反而是……","我沒有想一竿子打翻所有的人，但就我聽到的是在這個部分看起來……","我知道歐洲司可能也有相關的關切，但以我們現在的力度，是不是還有能做而未做的事情？這部分我是希望部長有沒有可能加強？","我覺得部長一定很瞭解，所以我是覺得是不是需要部長親自督導這件事情？"],["吳部長釗燮：好。"],["洪委員申翰：我們旅居在丹麥這麼遙遠的地方的國人這麼辛苦、這麼努力，不斷在為臺灣發聲，也為自己的權益發聲，可是看起來得到政府、我們代表處的支援是不足的。"],["吳部長釗燮：謝謝委員，既然委員提醒了，這個部分我就來瞭解、來加強。以我個人的態度，我甚至是願意接受丹麥媒體來訪問，而且講了很多，甚至講到強到說，你們如果把臺灣當成是中國或者是中國的一部分的話，這可能是提供中國一個侵略臺灣的藉口，都已經講到這麼強了，所以我們會繼續來做。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，我們其實看了一下，我自己也翻了一下，包括在歐洲議會2月通過的共同外交暨安全政策報告裡面，其實它很清楚地說：中國對臺灣的領土主張是不具國際法基礎的，也就是臺灣和中國互不隸屬，只有臺灣的民選政府可以在國際上代表臺灣人民。我認為我們的駐丹麥辦事處其實應該好好地利用像這樣的相關報告內容，來極力爭取我們在那邊的權益。我覺得這是可以做的事情，包括我們也看到，其實丹麥國會在2022年也全數通過支持臺灣加入WHA，這代表在丹麥政界應該也有很強力支持臺灣的力量，所以這些相關可以運用的資源我們是不是都已經好好地運用了？針對這個部分，我是希望部長來跟不管是歐洲司或駐丹麥辦事處看看到底要怎麼來檢討，但最後成功與否我知道不完全掌控在我們自己的手上，這部分我理解，可是我認為應該要讓我們在丹麥的僑界，或是我們旅居丹麥的這麼多的臺灣人，感覺到一個強力支持的力量，政府和民間的自救行動要在一起，我覺得這是重點。"],["吳部長釗燮：這是應該做的。"],["洪委員申翰：我覺得部長，你一定做得到這一點！"],["吳部長釗燮：我……"],["洪委員申翰：我相信你的立場包括你的能力，一定做得到這一點，但是希望你加強督導這件事情，可以嗎？"],["吳部長釗燮：好，沒問題、沒問題，一定、一定。"],["洪委員申翰：好，謝謝部長。"],["吳部長釗燮：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請陳冠廷委員上台質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":104,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-17","speakers":["馬文君","羅美玲","陳永康","王定宇","徐巧芯","洪申翰","沈伯洋","陳冠廷","林楚茵","羅智強","黃仁","林憶君"],"page_start":73,"meetingDate":["2024-05-02"],"gazette_id":"1133801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告「外交部如何構建友善工作環境暨人員心理輔導具體做法」，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1133801_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"152036","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152036","tool":"pyannote","id":"152036-pyannote"},"job_id":"uF1E3HeMbi0XnilO","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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00:01:15,825\n但是今天還是想跟部長來討論幾個事情其實我今天想跟部長討論的事情之前也有幾個委員曾經在外交國防委員會裡面其實有提到也包括在野黨的委員部長今年年初發生的一件事情就是丹麥政府片面的將臺灣的居民的居留證的出生地改成了中國我想部長一定知道這件事情那這是一件很嚴重的事情那據我所知\n\n4\n00:01:16,986 --> 00:01:41,088\n外交部當然有向丹麥政府抗議這件事情但目前丹麥政府並沒有改善的動作部長你覺得原因是什麼跟委員報告一下有關於這件事情的確我們在丹麥的這些僑界的人士或者是丹麥的好朋友和我們的那個大使館的同仁注意到這件事情之後我們都想盡辦法希望丹麥政府能夠改善\n\n5\n00:01:41,909 --> 00:02:05,499\n那透過很多的這些努力包括我自己接受丹麥的報紙的這個訪問那這個出來的篇幅是很大那我想丹麥的這個外交部也發現說這個是一個問題那但是處理這件事情的那個他們當地的那個registration並不是丹麥的外交部所以現在還在他們內部的這個討論當中也希望說他們能夠很快的能夠改善\n\n6\n00:02:05,759 --> 00:02:25,487\n部長因為當然這段時間也很多我們其實這個旅居丹麥的國人來跟我們澄清那說他們當然現在居留證上面因為國籍欄直接被改成了這個標示為ChinaCHN所以其實等於現在在丹麥政府來說是把他們註記為是中國的公民\n\n7\n00:02:26,377 --> 00:02:51,070\n那部長你知不知道把他們註記成中國公民其實對他們整體的生活帶來什麼樣的影響外交部有沒有相關的報告我們沒有相關的報告但是這個是一個大家都可以想像到的事情就是中國在海外的這種reputation並不是很好那如果說我們被當成是中國人的話那我想這個對我們的台橋來講這個是絕對不公平的事情部長可能這不是reputation的問題而已下一張\n\n8\n00:02:52,765 --> 00:03:07,965\n我們就目前為止其實這些來就就是旅居丹麥的我們國人其實來反映的齁其實這裡面有非常非常多實質生活的問題包括因為這個他們包括像銀行的開戶商業的保險結婚的登記接下來如果\n\n9\n00:03:08,525 --> 00:03:32,110\n假設會有一些跨國的離婚的訴訟或者是財產分配的訴訟的時候因為你現在被註記為中國公民所以後面可能都會有相關司法管轄權的問題這是第一個第二個因為丹麥是一個高度數位化的國家所以他們其實很多是使用他們叫做MIDID的做法來去標示來去運用他們的數位身份那因為\n\n10\n00:03:33,510 --> 00:03:47,101\n他們不承認台灣的護照所以其實都必須用居留證來啟用MIDID所以現在變成他用MIDID這個數位身份要去連結到的各種文件上面都會被標註他變成是中國人或中國公民\n\n11\n00:03:48,086 --> 00:04:11,209\n再來外交部的當然很努力那很多國家我們都有免簽的待遇但很多國家我們要進出很多國家都需要去確認你的護照跟你的居留證是否是一致的在這個狀況下面他們的護照跟居留證在要去進出很多國家的時候就會被辨識為是不一致的狀況這會影響很多他們的權益也包括我們自己在很多國家有簽租稅協議\n\n12\n00:04:12,310 --> 00:04:37,387\n那所以現在在這個狀況之下當他們被標註中國人的時候這些相關的租稅協議還適不適用這都是問題所以這不是只是這個名譽上面的問題而已這是很多實質上面生活的問題我自己認為恐怕外交部是需要把他們在當地遇到實質上面的問題做一個更清楚的掌握不然我今天跟你談這件事情我並不是說要去譴責說啊為什麼丹麥的政府\n\n13\n00:04:38,247 --> 00:05:01,701\n做這件事情我們知道我們外交的處境是很艱辛的遇到這個事情我們可以理解但我這邊想跟部長表達的事情是我們其實在丹麥的這些國人坦白說他們現在是一波一波的自救的行動但他們跟我反應相對於其他的辦事處他們確實感覺我們在駐丹麥的辦事處是相對消極的\n\n14\n00:05:05,290 --> 00:05:31,747\n是相對沒有讓他們感覺到成為他們這些自救行動一個強力的靠山的包括在各種態度的表達上面在各種能做的事情上面好像沒有盡全力這是現在這些我們駐丹麥的國人來跟我們表達他們很遺憾的事情或者很擔憂的事情他們沒有覺得在這件事情上面我們的辦事處\n\n15\n00:05:34,885 --> 00:05:51,914\n這不是一個人表達而已他們用很多管道很多澄清的管道在各方的澄清這件事情那他們都有我覺得都有很強烈的臺灣心跟臺灣主體的意識我覺得這部分沒有問題\n\n16\n00:05:52,975 --> 00:06:10,216\n反而是我沒有想要一竿子打翻所有的人但就有聽到在這個部分看起來我知道歐洲是可能也有出相關的關切但我們現在的力度我們是不是還有能做而未做的事情這部分我是希望部長有沒有可能\n\n17\n00:06:11,226 --> 00:06:32,022\n我覺得部長你很了解所以我是覺得要不要部長需要不要親自督導這件事情至少讓我們其實旅居在丹麥他們其實這麼遙遠的地方而且這麼辛苦這麼努力而且他們不斷的在為台灣發聲也為自己的權益發聲可是看起來這個得到政府我們代表處的支援是不足的\n\n18\n00:06:32,982 --> 00:06:54,860\n非常謝謝委員既然委員提醒了那這個部分我就來瞭解來加強那以我個人的態度我甚至是願意接受那個丹麥的那個媒體的來訪問而且講了很多甚至講到強到說你們如果說把臺灣當成是中國或者是中國的一部分的話這個可能是提供中國一個侵略臺灣的一個藉口都已經講到這麼強了所以我們會繼續來做\n\n19\n00:06:57,902 --> 00:07:18,782\n我自己也翻了一下包括我們在歐洲議會2月的時候通過這個共同外交及安全政策的報告裡面其實他很清楚說這個中國對台灣的領土主張是不具國際法的基礎的那也就是台灣跟中國是互不隸屬的只有台灣的民選政府可以在國際上面代表台灣人民我認為\n\n20\n00:07:20,305 --> 00:07:35,067\n我們在駐丹麥的辦事處我們其實應該好好利用這個像這樣相關的報告的內容來極力的爭取我們在那邊的權益那我覺得這是可以做的事情包括我們也看到其實丹麥國會在2022年也全數通過支持台灣加入WHA\n\n21\n00:07:35,908 --> 00:07:53,917\n這代表在丹麥的政界應該也有支持台灣很強力的力量所以這些相關可以運用的資源我們是不是都已經好好的運用了我覺得這部分是希望部長來跟我們不管是歐洲司不管是我們駐丹麥的辦事處到底要怎麼來檢討\n\n22\n00:07:55,518 --> 00:08:06,645\n但最後成功與否我知道不完全掌控在我們自己的手上這部分我理解可是我認為應該要讓我們在丹麥的僑界或丹麥在\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n49\t1190\t國防委員吳釗燮報告吳釗燮報告吳釗燮報告\n30103\t48023\t先跟外交部的同仁表達一聲我覺得非常非常深的敬意因為這件事情也包括剛剛我們在質詢的過程裡面我們知道我也清楚知道部長其實是在要捍衛立場其實是一個非常深切的心情所以做了很多的表達\n50125\t75825\t但是今天還是想跟部長來討論幾個事情其實我今天想跟部長討論的事情之前也有幾個委員曾經在外交國防委員會裡面其實有提到也包括在野黨的委員部長今年年初發生的一件事情就是丹麥政府片面的將臺灣的居民的居留證的出生地改成了中國我想部長一定知道這件事情那這是一件很嚴重的事情那據我所知\n76986\t101088\t外交部當然有向丹麥政府抗議這件事情但目前丹麥政府並沒有改善的動作部長你覺得原因是什麼跟委員報告一下有關於這件事情的確我們在丹麥的這些僑界的人士或者是丹麥的好朋友和我們的那個大使館的同仁注意到這件事情之後我們都想盡辦法希望丹麥政府能夠改善\n101909\t125499\t那透過很多的這些努力包括我自己接受丹麥的報紙的這個訪問那這個出來的篇幅是很大那我想丹麥的這個外交部也發現說這個是一個問題那但是處理這件事情的那個他們當地的那個registration並不是丹麥的外交部所以現在還在他們內部的這個討論當中也希望說他們能夠很快的能夠改善\n125759\t145487\t部長 因為當然這段時間也很多我們其實這個旅居丹麥的國人來跟我們澄清那說他們當然現在居留證上面因為國籍欄直接被改成了這個標示為China CHN所以其實等於現在在丹麥政府來說是把他們註記為是中國的公民\n146377\t171070\t那部長你知不知道把他們註記成中國公民其實對他們整體的生活帶來什麼樣的影響外交部有沒有相關的報告我們沒有相關的報告但是這個是一個大家都可以想像到的事情就是中國在海外的這種reputation並不是很好那如果說我們被當成是中國人的話那我想這個對我們的台橋來講這個是絕對不公平的事情部長可能這不是reputation的問題而已下一張\n172765\t187965\t我們就目前為止其實這些來就就是旅居丹麥的我們國人其實來反映的齁其實這裡面有非常非常多實質生活的問題包括因為這個他們包括像銀行的開戶商業的保險結婚的登記接下來如果\n188525\t212110\t假設會有一些跨國的離婚的訴訟或者是財產分配的訴訟的時候因為你現在被註記為中國公民所以後面可能都會有相關司法管轄權的問題這是第一個第二個因為丹麥是一個高度數位化的國家所以他們其實很多是使用他們叫做MIDID的做法來去標示來去運用他們的數位身份那因為\n213510\t227101\t他們不承認台灣的護照所以其實都必須用居留證來啟用MID ID所以現在變成他用MID ID這個數位身份要去連結到的各種文件上面都會被標註他變成是中國人或中國公民\n228086\t251209\t再來外交部的當然很努力那很多國家我們都有免簽的待遇但很多國家我們要進出很多國家都需要去確認你的護照跟你的居留證是否是一致的在這個狀況下面他們的護照跟居留證在要去進出很多國家的時候就會被辨識為是不一致的狀況這會影響很多他們的權益也包括我們自己在很多國家有簽租稅協議\n252310\t277387\t那所以現在在這個狀況之下當他們被標註中國人的時候這些相關的租稅協議還適不適用這都是問題所以這不是只是這個名譽上面的問題而已這是很多實質上面生活的問題我自己認為恐怕外交部是需要把他們在當地遇到實質上面的問題做一個更清楚的掌握不然我今天跟你談這件事情我並不是說要去譴責說啊為什麼丹麥的政府\n278247\t301701\t做這件事情我們知道我們外交的處境是很艱辛的遇到這個事情我們可以理解但我這邊想跟部長表達的事情是我們其實在丹麥的這些國人坦白說他們現在是一波一波的自救的行動但他們跟我反應相對於其他的辦事處他們確實感覺我們在駐丹麥的辦事處是相對消極的\n305290\t331747\t是相對沒有讓他們感覺到成為他們這些自救行動一個強力的靠山的包括在各種態度的表達上面在各種能做的事情上面好像沒有盡全力這是現在這些我們駐丹麥的國人來跟我們表達他們很遺憾的事情或者很擔憂的事情他們沒有覺得在這件事情上面我們的辦事處\n334885\t351914\t這不是一個人表達而已他們用很多管道很多澄清的管道在各方的澄清這件事情那他們都有我覺得都有很強烈的臺灣心跟臺灣主體的意識我覺得這部分沒有問題\n352975\t370216\t反而是我沒有想要一竿子打翻所有的人但就有聽到在這個部分看起來我知道歐洲是可能也有出相關的關切但我們現在的力度我們是不是還有能做而未做的事情這部分我是希望部長有沒有可能\n371226\t392022\t我覺得部長你很了解所以我是覺得要不要部長需要不要親自督導這件事情至少讓我們其實旅居在丹麥他們其實這麼遙遠的地方而且這麼辛苦這麼努力而且他們不斷的在為台灣發聲也為自己的權益發聲可是看起來這個得到政府我們代表處的支援是不足的\n392982\t414860\t非常謝謝委員 既然委員提醒了 那這個部分我就來瞭解來加強那以我個人的態度我甚至是願意接受那個丹麥的那個媒體的來訪問而且講了很多甚至講到強到說你們如果說把臺灣當成是中國或者是中國的一部分的話這個可能是提供中國一個侵略臺灣的一個藉口都已經講到這麼強了 所以我們會繼續來做\n417902\t438782\t我自己也翻了一下包括我們在歐洲議會2月的時候通過這個共同外交及安全政策的報告裡面其實他很清楚說這個中國對台灣的領土主張是不具國際法的基礎的那也就是台灣跟中國是互不隸屬的只有台灣的民選政府可以在國際上面代表台灣人民我認為\n440305\t455067\t我們在駐丹麥的辦事處我們其實應該好好利用這個像這樣相關的報告的內容來極力的爭取我們在那邊的權益那我覺得這是可以做的事情包括我們也看到其實丹麥國會在2022年也全數通過支持台灣加入WHA\n455908\t473917\t這代表在丹麥的政界應該也有支持台灣很強力的力量所以這些相關可以運用的資源我們是不是都已經好好的運用了我覺得這部分是希望部長來跟我們不管是歐洲司不管是我們駐丹麥的辦事處到底要怎麼來檢討\n475518\t486645\t但最後成功與否我知道不完全掌控在我們自己的手上這部分我理解可是我認為應該要讓我們在丹麥的僑界或丹麥在\n487722\t512005\t謝謝\n","txt":"國防委員吳釗燮報告吳釗燮報告吳釗燮報告\n先跟外交部的同仁表達一聲我覺得非常非常深的敬意因為這件事情也包括剛剛我們在質詢的過程裡面我們知道我也清楚知道部長其實是在要捍衛立場其實是一個非常深切的心情所以做了很多的表達\n但是今天還是想跟部長來討論幾個事情其實我今天想跟部長討論的事情之前也有幾個委員曾經在外交國防委員會裡面其實有提到也包括在野黨的委員部長今年年初發生的一件事情就是丹麥政府片面的將臺灣的居民的居留證的出生地改成了中國我想部長一定知道這件事情那這是一件很嚴重的事情那據我所知\n外交部當然有向丹麥政府抗議這件事情但目前丹麥政府並沒有改善的動作部長你覺得原因是什麼跟委員報告一下有關於這件事情的確我們在丹麥的這些僑界的人士或者是丹麥的好朋友和我們的那個大使館的同仁注意到這件事情之後我們都想盡辦法希望丹麥政府能夠改善\n那透過很多的這些努力包括我自己接受丹麥的報紙的這個訪問那這個出來的篇幅是很大那我想丹麥的這個外交部也發現說這個是一個問題那但是處理這件事情的那個他們當地的那個registration並不是丹麥的外交部所以現在還在他們內部的這個討論當中也希望說他們能夠很快的能夠改善\n部長 因為當然這段時間也很多我們其實這個旅居丹麥的國人來跟我們澄清那說他們當然現在居留證上面因為國籍欄直接被改成了這個標示為China CHN所以其實等於現在在丹麥政府來說是把他們註記為是中國的公民\n那部長你知不知道把他們註記成中國公民其實對他們整體的生活帶來什麼樣的影響外交部有沒有相關的報告我們沒有相關的報告但是這個是一個大家都可以想像到的事情就是中國在海外的這種reputation並不是很好那如果說我們被當成是中國人的話那我想這個對我們的台橋來講這個是絕對不公平的事情部長可能這不是reputation的問題而已下一張\n我們就目前為止其實這些來就就是旅居丹麥的我們國人其實來反映的齁其實這裡面有非常非常多實質生活的問題包括因為這個他們包括像銀行的開戶商業的保險結婚的登記接下來如果\n假設會有一些跨國的離婚的訴訟或者是財產分配的訴訟的時候因為你現在被註記為中國公民所以後面可能都會有相關司法管轄權的問題這是第一個第二個因為丹麥是一個高度數位化的國家所以他們其實很多是使用他們叫做MIDID的做法來去標示來去運用他們的數位身份那因為\n他們不承認台灣的護照所以其實都必須用居留證來啟用MID ID所以現在變成他用MID ID這個數位身份要去連結到的各種文件上面都會被標註他變成是中國人或中國公民\n再來外交部的當然很努力那很多國家我們都有免簽的待遇但很多國家我們要進出很多國家都需要去確認你的護照跟你的居留證是否是一致的在這個狀況下面他們的護照跟居留證在要去進出很多國家的時候就會被辨識為是不一致的狀況這會影響很多他們的權益也包括我們自己在很多國家有簽租稅協議\n那所以現在在這個狀況之下當他們被標註中國人的時候這些相關的租稅協議還適不適用這都是問題所以這不是只是這個名譽上面的問題而已這是很多實質上面生活的問題我自己認為恐怕外交部是需要把他們在當地遇到實質上面的問題做一個更清楚的掌握不然我今天跟你談這件事情我並不是說要去譴責說啊為什麼丹麥的政府\n做這件事情我們知道我們外交的處境是很艱辛的遇到這個事情我們可以理解但我這邊想跟部長表達的事情是我們其實在丹麥的這些國人坦白說他們現在是一波一波的自救的行動但他們跟我反應相對於其他的辦事處他們確實感覺我們在駐丹麥的辦事處是相對消極的\n是相對沒有讓他們感覺到成為他們這些自救行動一個強力的靠山的包括在各種態度的表達上面在各種能做的事情上面好像沒有盡全力這是現在這些我們駐丹麥的國人來跟我們表達他們很遺憾的事情或者很擔憂的事情他們沒有覺得在這件事情上面我們的辦事處\n這不是一個人表達而已他們用很多管道很多澄清的管道在各方的澄清這件事情那他們都有我覺得都有很強烈的臺灣心跟臺灣主體的意識我覺得這部分沒有問題\n反而是我沒有想要一竿子打翻所有的人但就有聽到在這個部分看起來我知道歐洲是可能也有出相關的關切但我們現在的力度我們是不是還有能做而未做的事情這部分我是希望部長有沒有可能\n我覺得部長你很了解所以我是覺得要不要部長需要不要親自督導這件事情至少讓我們其實旅居在丹麥他們其實這麼遙遠的地方而且這麼辛苦這麼努力而且他們不斷的在為台灣發聲也為自己的權益發聲可是看起來這個得到政府我們代表處的支援是不足的\n非常謝謝委員 既然委員提醒了 那這個部分我就來瞭解來加強那以我個人的態度我甚至是願意接受那個丹麥的那個媒體的來訪問而且講了很多甚至講到強到說你們如果說把臺灣當成是中國或者是中國的一部分的話這個可能是提供中國一個侵略臺灣的一個藉口都已經講到這麼強了 所以我們會繼續來做\n我自己也翻了一下包括我們在歐洲議會2月的時候通過這個共同外交及安全政策的報告裡面其實他很清楚說這個中國對台灣的領土主張是不具國際法的基礎的那也就是台灣跟中國是互不隸屬的只有台灣的民選政府可以在國際上面代表台灣人民我認為\n我們在駐丹麥的辦事處我們其實應該好好利用這個像這樣相關的報告的內容來極力的爭取我們在那邊的權益那我覺得這是可以做的事情包括我們也看到其實丹麥國會在2022年也全數通過支持台灣加入WHA\n這代表在丹麥的政界應該也有支持台灣很強力的力量所以這些相關可以運用的資源我們是不是都已經好好的運用了我覺得這部分是希望部長來跟我們不管是歐洲司不管是我們駐丹麥的辦事處到底要怎麼來檢討\n但最後成功與否我知道不完全掌控在我們自己的手上這部分我理解可是我認為應該要讓我們在丹麥的僑界或丹麥在\n謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.049 --> 00:01.190\n國防委員吳釗燮報告吳釗燮報告吳釗燮報告\n\n00:30.103 --> 00:48.023\n先跟外交部的同仁表達一聲我覺得非常非常深的敬意因為這件事情也包括剛剛我們在質詢的過程裡面我們知道我也清楚知道部長其實是在要捍衛立場其實是一個非常深切的心情所以做了很多的表達\n\n00:50.125 --> 01:15.825\n但是今天還是想跟部長來討論幾個事情其實我今天想跟部長討論的事情之前也有幾個委員曾經在外交國防委員會裡面其實有提到也包括在野黨的委員部長今年年初發生的一件事情就是丹麥政府片面的將臺灣的居民的居留證的出生地改成了中國我想部長一定知道這件事情那這是一件很嚴重的事情那據我所知\n\n01:16.986 --> 01:41.088\n外交部當然有向丹麥政府抗議這件事情但目前丹麥政府並沒有改善的動作部長你覺得原因是什麼跟委員報告一下有關於這件事情的確我們在丹麥的這些僑界的人士或者是丹麥的好朋友和我們的那個大使館的同仁注意到這件事情之後我們都想盡辦法希望丹麥政府能夠改善\n\n01:41.909 --> 02:05.499\n那透過很多的這些努力包括我自己接受丹麥的報紙的這個訪問那這個出來的篇幅是很大那我想丹麥的這個外交部也發現說這個是一個問題那但是處理這件事情的那個他們當地的那個registration並不是丹麥的外交部所以現在還在他們內部的這個討論當中也希望說他們能夠很快的能夠改善\n\n02:05.759 --> 02:25.487\n部長因為當然這段時間也很多我們其實這個旅居丹麥的國人來跟我們澄清那說他們當然現在居留證上面因為國籍欄直接被改成了這個標示為ChinaCHN所以其實等於現在在丹麥政府來說是把他們註記為是中國的公民\n\n02:26.377 --> 02:51.070\n那部長你知不知道把他們註記成中國公民其實對他們整體的生活帶來什麼樣的影響外交部有沒有相關的報告我們沒有相關的報告但是這個是一個大家都可以想像到的事情就是中國在海外的這種reputation並不是很好那如果說我們被當成是中國人的話那我想這個對我們的台橋來講這個是絕對不公平的事情部長可能這不是reputation的問題而已下一張\n\n02:52.765 --> 03:07.965\n我們就目前為止其實這些來就就是旅居丹麥的我們國人其實來反映的齁其實這裡面有非常非常多實質生活的問題包括因為這個他們包括像銀行的開戶商業的保險結婚的登記接下來如果\n\n03:08.525 --> 03:32.110\n假設會有一些跨國的離婚的訴訟或者是財產分配的訴訟的時候因為你現在被註記為中國公民所以後面可能都會有相關司法管轄權的問題這是第一個第二個因為丹麥是一個高度數位化的國家所以他們其實很多是使用他們叫做MIDID的做法來去標示來去運用他們的數位身份那因為\n\n03:33.510 --> 03:47.101\n他們不承認台灣的護照所以其實都必須用居留證來啟用MIDID所以現在變成他用MIDID這個數位身份要去連結到的各種文件上面都會被標註他變成是中國人或中國公民\n\n03:48.086 --> 04:11.209\n再來外交部的當然很努力那很多國家我們都有免簽的待遇但很多國家我們要進出很多國家都需要去確認你的護照跟你的居留證是否是一致的在這個狀況下面他們的護照跟居留證在要去進出很多國家的時候就會被辨識為是不一致的狀況這會影響很多他們的權益也包括我們自己在很多國家有簽租稅協議\n\n04:12.310 --> 04:37.387\n那所以現在在這個狀況之下當他們被標註中國人的時候這些相關的租稅協議還適不適用這都是問題所以這不是只是這個名譽上面的問題而已這是很多實質上面生活的問題我自己認為恐怕外交部是需要把他們在當地遇到實質上面的問題做一個更清楚的掌握不然我今天跟你談這件事情我並不是說要去譴責說啊為什麼丹麥的政府\n\n04:38.247 --> 05:01.701\n做這件事情我們知道我們外交的處境是很艱辛的遇到這個事情我們可以理解但我這邊想跟部長表達的事情是我們其實在丹麥的這些國人坦白說他們現在是一波一波的自救的行動但他們跟我反應相對於其他的辦事處他們確實感覺我們在駐丹麥的辦事處是相對消極的\n\n05:05.290 --> 05:31.747\n是相對沒有讓他們感覺到成為他們這些自救行動一個強力的靠山的包括在各種態度的表達上面在各種能做的事情上面好像沒有盡全力這是現在這些我們駐丹麥的國人來跟我們表達他們很遺憾的事情或者很擔憂的事情他們沒有覺得在這件事情上面我們的辦事處\n\n05:34.885 --> 05:51.914\n這不是一個人表達而已他們用很多管道很多澄清的管道在各方的澄清這件事情那他們都有我覺得都有很強烈的臺灣心跟臺灣主體的意識我覺得這部分沒有問題\n\n05:52.975 --> 06:10.216\n反而是我沒有想要一竿子打翻所有的人但就有聽到在這個部分看起來我知道歐洲是可能也有出相關的關切但我們現在的力度我們是不是還有能做而未做的事情這部分我是希望部長有沒有可能\n\n06:11.226 --> 06:32.022\n我覺得部長你很了解所以我是覺得要不要部長需要不要親自督導這件事情至少讓我們其實旅居在丹麥他們其實這麼遙遠的地方而且這麼辛苦這麼努力而且他們不斷的在為台灣發聲也為自己的權益發聲可是看起來這個得到政府我們代表處的支援是不足的\n\n06:32.982 --> 06:54.860\n非常謝謝委員既然委員提醒了那這個部分我就來瞭解來加強那以我個人的態度我甚至是願意接受那個丹麥的那個媒體的來訪問而且講了很多甚至講到強到說你們如果說把臺灣當成是中國或者是中國的一部分的話這個可能是提供中國一個侵略臺灣的一個藉口都已經講到這麼強了所以我們會繼續來做\n\n06:57.902 --> 07:18.782\n我自己也翻了一下包括我們在歐洲議會2月的時候通過這個共同外交及安全政策的報告裡面其實他很清楚說這個中國對台灣的領土主張是不具國際法的基礎的那也就是台灣跟中國是互不隸屬的只有台灣的民選政府可以在國際上面代表台灣人民我認為\n\n07:20.305 --> 07:35.067\n我們在駐丹麥的辦事處我們其實應該好好利用這個像這樣相關的報告的內容來極力的爭取我們在那邊的權益那我覺得這是可以做的事情包括我們也看到其實丹麥國會在2022年也全數通過支持台灣加入WHA\n\n07:35.908 --> 07:53.917\n這代表在丹麥的政界應該也有支持台灣很強力的力量所以這些相關可以運用的資源我們是不是都已經好好的運用了我覺得這部分是希望部長來跟我們不管是歐洲司不管是我們駐丹麥的辦事處到底要怎麼來檢討\n\n07:55.518 --> 08:06.645\n但最後成功與否我知道不完全掌控在我們自己的手上這部分我理解可是我認為應該要讓我們在丹麥的僑界或丹麥在\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.049,"end":1.19,"text":"國防委員吳釗燮報告吳釗燮報告吳釗燮報告"},{"start":30.103,"end":48.023,"text":"先跟外交部的同仁表達一聲我覺得非常非常深的敬意因為這件事情也包括剛剛我們在質詢的過程裡面我們知道我也清楚知道部長其實是在要捍衛立場其實是一個非常深切的心情所以做了很多的表達"},{"start":50.125,"end":75.825,"text":"但是今天還是想跟部長來討論幾個事情其實我今天想跟部長討論的事情之前也有幾個委員曾經在外交國防委員會裡面其實有提到也包括在野黨的委員部長今年年初發生的一件事情就是丹麥政府片面的將臺灣的居民的居留證的出生地改成了中國我想部長一定知道這件事情那這是一件很嚴重的事情那據我所知"},{"start":76.986,"end":101.088,"text":"外交部當然有向丹麥政府抗議這件事情但目前丹麥政府並沒有改善的動作部長你覺得原因是什麼跟委員報告一下有關於這件事情的確我們在丹麥的這些僑界的人士或者是丹麥的好朋友和我們的那個大使館的同仁注意到這件事情之後我們都想盡辦法希望丹麥政府能夠改善"},{"start":101.909,"end":125.499,"text":"那透過很多的這些努力包括我自己接受丹麥的報紙的這個訪問那這個出來的篇幅是很大那我想丹麥的這個外交部也發現說這個是一個問題那但是處理這件事情的那個他們當地的那個registration並不是丹麥的外交部所以現在還在他們內部的這個討論當中也希望說他們能夠很快的能夠改善"},{"start":125.759,"end":145.487,"text":"部長 因為當然這段時間也很多我們其實這個旅居丹麥的國人來跟我們澄清那說他們當然現在居留證上面因為國籍欄直接被改成了這個標示為China CHN所以其實等於現在在丹麥政府來說是把他們註記為是中國的公民"},{"start":146.377,"end":171.07,"text":"那部長你知不知道把他們註記成中國公民其實對他們整體的生活帶來什麼樣的影響外交部有沒有相關的報告我們沒有相關的報告但是這個是一個大家都可以想像到的事情就是中國在海外的這種reputation並不是很好那如果說我們被當成是中國人的話那我想這個對我們的台橋來講這個是絕對不公平的事情部長可能這不是reputation的問題而已下一張"},{"start":172.765,"end":187.965,"text":"我們就目前為止其實這些來就就是旅居丹麥的我們國人其實來反映的齁其實這裡面有非常非常多實質生活的問題包括因為這個他們包括像銀行的開戶商業的保險結婚的登記接下來如果"},{"start":188.525,"end":212.11,"text":"假設會有一些跨國的離婚的訴訟或者是財產分配的訴訟的時候因為你現在被註記為中國公民所以後面可能都會有相關司法管轄權的問題這是第一個第二個因為丹麥是一個高度數位化的國家所以他們其實很多是使用他們叫做MIDID的做法來去標示來去運用他們的數位身份那因為"},{"start":213.51,"end":227.101,"text":"他們不承認台灣的護照所以其實都必須用居留證來啟用MID ID所以現在變成他用MID ID這個數位身份要去連結到的各種文件上面都會被標註他變成是中國人或中國公民"},{"start":228.086,"end":251.209,"text":"再來外交部的當然很努力那很多國家我們都有免簽的待遇但很多國家我們要進出很多國家都需要去確認你的護照跟你的居留證是否是一致的在這個狀況下面他們的護照跟居留證在要去進出很多國家的時候就會被辨識為是不一致的狀況這會影響很多他們的權益也包括我們自己在很多國家有簽租稅協議"},{"start":252.31,"end":277.387,"text":"那所以現在在這個狀況之下當他們被標註中國人的時候這些相關的租稅協議還適不適用這都是問題所以這不是只是這個名譽上面的問題而已這是很多實質上面生活的問題我自己認為恐怕外交部是需要把他們在當地遇到實質上面的問題做一個更清楚的掌握不然我今天跟你談這件事情我並不是說要去譴責說啊為什麼丹麥的政府"},{"start":278.247,"end":301.701,"text":"做這件事情我們知道我們外交的處境是很艱辛的遇到這個事情我們可以理解但我這邊想跟部長表達的事情是我們其實在丹麥的這些國人坦白說他們現在是一波一波的自救的行動但他們跟我反應相對於其他的辦事處他們確實感覺我們在駐丹麥的辦事處是相對消極的"},{"start":305.29,"end":331.747,"text":"是相對沒有讓他們感覺到成為他們這些自救行動一個強力的靠山的包括在各種態度的表達上面在各種能做的事情上面好像沒有盡全力這是現在這些我們駐丹麥的國人來跟我們表達他們很遺憾的事情或者很擔憂的事情他們沒有覺得在這件事情上面我們的辦事處"},{"start":334.885,"end":351.914,"text":"這不是一個人表達而已他們用很多管道很多澄清的管道在各方的澄清這件事情那他們都有我覺得都有很強烈的臺灣心跟臺灣主體的意識我覺得這部分沒有問題"},{"start":352.975,"end":370.216,"text":"反而是我沒有想要一竿子打翻所有的人但就有聽到在這個部分看起來我知道歐洲是可能也有出相關的關切但我們現在的力度我們是不是還有能做而未做的事情這部分我是希望部長有沒有可能"},{"start":371.226,"end":392.022,"text":"我覺得部長你很了解所以我是覺得要不要部長需要不要親自督導這件事情至少讓我們其實旅居在丹麥他們其實這麼遙遠的地方而且這麼辛苦這麼努力而且他們不斷的在為台灣發聲也為自己的權益發聲可是看起來這個得到政府我們代表處的支援是不足的"},{"start":392.982,"end":414.86,"text":"非常謝謝委員 既然委員提醒了 那這個部分我就來瞭解來加強那以我個人的態度我甚至是願意接受那個丹麥的那個媒體的來訪問而且講了很多甚至講到強到說你們如果說把臺灣當成是中國或者是中國的一部分的話這個可能是提供中國一個侵略臺灣的一個藉口都已經講到這麼強了 所以我們會繼續來做"},{"start":417.902,"end":438.782,"text":"我自己也翻了一下包括我們在歐洲議會2月的時候通過這個共同外交及安全政策的報告裡面其實他很清楚說這個中國對台灣的領土主張是不具國際法的基礎的那也就是台灣跟中國是互不隸屬的只有台灣的民選政府可以在國際上面代表台灣人民我認為"},{"start":440.305,"end":455.067,"text":"我們在駐丹麥的辦事處我們其實應該好好利用這個像這樣相關的報告的內容來極力的爭取我們在那邊的權益那我覺得這是可以做的事情包括我們也看到其實丹麥國會在2022年也全數通過支持台灣加入WHA"},{"start":455.908,"end":473.917,"text":"這代表在丹麥的政界應該也有支持台灣很強力的力量所以這些相關可以運用的資源我們是不是都已經好好的運用了我覺得這部分是希望部長來跟我們不管是歐洲司不管是我們駐丹麥的辦事處到底要怎麼來檢討"},{"start":475.518,"end":486.645,"text":"但最後成功與否我知道不完全掌控在我們自己的手上這部分我理解可是我認為應該要讓我們在丹麥的僑界或丹麥在"},{"start":487.722,"end":512.005,"text":"謝謝"}]}}}}