{"id":152037,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152037","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6f015fe8e6787db12f8ee33d165691cb455ccb8302deb5eb55be169921a0a717a9fd4a0889155ef15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林國成","委員發言時間":"09:18:30 - 09:27:00","影片長度":"00:08:30","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請行政院公共工程委員會、勞動部就「公共工程職業安全衛生改善暨降低職業災害辦理情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於行政院公共工程委員會預算凍結案計7案。）","date":"2024-05-02","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-10"},"duration":510,"end_time":"2024-05-02T09:27:00+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-02T09:18:30+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":132,"blocks":[["林委員國成：（9時18分）好，謝謝主席。請吳主委。"],["主席：請吳主委。"],["林委員國成：鄒署長。"],["主席：好，請鄒署長。"],["吳主任委員澤成：委員好。"],["林委員國成：好，兩位首長，昨天是勞動節，今天感謝召委關心勞工，排了專案報告。說實在的，勞工是被漠視的一群，可是今天召委可以排這個議程，基本上我們是敬佩的。吳主委在公共工程裡面，你有幾個作為我是加以肯定的，你主管全國，不是只有公共工程，政府機關所屬的合約你都是主管機關，這幾年有進步，什麼進步呢？公共工程委員會把薪資跟工安列進合約範本中，這是對勞工的一個規範，完了以後由署長執行勞檢，所以規範很重要。主委，你確實是我少數在立法院裡面較為尊敬的人，為什麼？規範勝過檢查，規範完善自然發生的問題就少，如果等檢查以後、發生事情以後才因應，這個職安事件自然就會發生。吳主委沒有續任我也覺得很奇怪，這是我個人的意見，現在的政府怪怪的，好的人不留起來，不好的塞進來。我相信吳主委未來在這個部分也會扮演極為重要的角色，希望你繼續針對公共工程的合約規範，依你的經驗多在這裡提供意見。我這個人講究感情，看到這麼好的人要離開了，吳主委，給你1分鐘，你有什麼感覺？這幾年對於這個問題，你有什麼感覺？"],["吳主任委員澤成：首先非常謝謝林委員對工程會的支持跟指教，林委員上任之後，一直對本會存在與否非常關心，我們非常感謝。公共工程的勞安到建設的進行，都需要工程會以及各機關共同努力才能夠達成。當然我很佩服剛剛委員看出問題，從源頭就要規定清楚，加上落實執行才能夠達到目標。每一個勞工都是我們的同胞，都是我們的人民，都是建設的一分子，我們都應該給予關心、照顧，不要讓他們發生事故，不要讓他們的生命受到威脅，這是我們應該努力的事情。謝謝。"],["林委員國成：好，主委，還是謝謝你。剛才我們有一個共識，就是規範跟執行，有了規範才有辦法執行，執行是被動的，所以規範非常重要。針對合約你有比較先前的管理規劃，這一點我對工程會確實是較為肯定的。署長，我想請教一下，說實在的，當然合約的規劃，主管機關是吳主委的工程會，但是檢查機關變成他們。現在檢查有兩個步驟，六都跟臺灣省，勞動部也有自己的檢查機構，你現在還是委託六都的勞動局，他們在檢查。這個部分你們採取的方式如何？舉例來說，臺北市勞動局在檢查的時候，你們基於督導單位跟委辦單位的立場，對於整個部分如何處理？"],["鄒署長子廉：謝謝委員的指教，勞動部針對六都或是授權勞動檢查機構執行勞動檢查，他們檢查的方法、程序、標準跟中央是一模一樣的。委員關心的是我們如何督導這些地方檢查機構按照標準進行，我們每年除了考評之外，重大工程也會聯合稽查。發生重大事故的時候，職災的處理情形要報到職安署做最後核定，所以我們是採取中央訂定標準的方式，地方執行也要按照我們的規範進行。如果有一些出入、差錯，我們也會予以指正或是改善，會再繼續努力。謝謝委員。"],["林委員國成：好，另外，我要提供兩位首長日本的參考資料，你們一定要……據我所瞭解，臺北市的公共工程、建築案如果是日本監督單位來做，我跟你講，他們一絲不苟，只要要上工，他們會對所有的職工進行職前說明、職前訓練，所以臺北市有很多工地是零職安事件，為什麼？就是小心、細心跟宣導，這是非常重要的，所以我也要拜託吳主委把這個傳承下去。鄒署長，這個部分應該也要學習人家先進國家。","最後我想請教署長，營建業為什麼會這麼嚴重？我跟你講，依照新加坡、日本、英國來講，他們的職安只有40%，非常之低，但是我們的營建業在這裡有70%，署長，你最清楚，所以這個部分，你應該要怎麼樣去防範、怎麼樣去做？"],["鄒署長子廉：謝謝委員，我們營造業的職災主要是全國的50%，70%是所有的職災裡面墜落的部分，所以我們認為臺灣其實某種程度是層層轉包造成我們管理上的缺失，所以不管是契約上的要求或現場的監督、檢查，不能只查大包，下包有沒有做好安全管理跟措施也是我們的重點。所以，我們今年除了針對原事業單位的查核之外，它的整個工地管理系統，我們也介入做比較好的稽查，讓這公司或這工地能夠做所謂的全程管理。"],["林委員國成：好，最後，我還是用30秒特別祝福我們吳主委長命百歲，然後永遠快樂，當然有機會回來找我們召集人，召集人會請客，我們會作陪，好不好？","最後，我真的還要代替所有勞工拜託，我們的規劃很重要，有了規劃要執行也比較好執行，所以公共工程裡面主管合約的規範，拜託主委在卸任以前要把它規範下去，一、薪資，二、職安，這兩個非常重要，沒有薪資可領，他沒有辦法生活，但是職安出問題，他沒有生命，所以這兩個部分拜託要把它規範下去，好不好？拜託兩位首長。"],["吳主任委員澤成：好，謝謝林委員。"],["林委員國成：謝謝。"],["主席：林委員發言完畢，現在請黃健豪委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":166,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-10","speakers":["李昆澤","林國成","黃健豪","陳素月","魯明哲","何欣純","徐富癸","林沛祥","蔡其昌","許智傑","張智倫","黃國昌","林俊憲","游顥","羅智強","洪孟楷","王鴻薇","邱若華","廖先翔"],"page_start":123,"meetingDate":["2024-05-02"],"gazette_id":"1133901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133901_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請行政院公共工程委員會、勞動部就「公共工程職業安全衛生改善暨降低職業災害辦理情\n形」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於行政院公共工程委員會預\n算凍結案計7案","agenda_id":"1133901_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"152037","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152037","tool":"pyannote","id":"152037-pyannote"},"job_id":"YeTo80vhBnygUVnp","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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00:01:03,448\n在公共工程裡面你有幾個作為啊我是加以肯定的就是勞工啊有時候整個你主管全國不是只有公共工程\n\n4\n00:01:04,369 --> 00:01:25,626\n完全政府機關所屬的合約你就是主管機關但是這幾年有一個進步什麼進步呢公共工程委員會他去把合約的換本把薪資跟公安這個部分把它列進去這是對勞工的一個規範\n\n5\n00:01:28,396 --> 00:01:46,164\n晚了以後才署長去做勞檢的執行所以規範很重要所以主委你確確實實是我少數啊在立法院裡面較為尊敬的為什麼規範勝過於檢查規範完善自然啊\n\n6\n00:01:51,565 --> 00:01:51,585\n吳祖偉\n\n7\n00:02:17,313 --> 00:02:42,663\n你未來在這個部分我相信你也扮演極為重要角色希望繼續對公共工程的合約的規範以及你的經驗要多加以在這裡提供意見但是我這個人是講究感情看到你這麼好的要離開吳主委一分鐘給你你有什麼感覺這幾年對於這個問題你有什麼感覺\n\n8\n00:02:47,903 --> 00:03:01,553\n首先非常謝謝林委員對工程會的支持跟指教。從林委員上任之後,一直對扁會的存在與否也非常的關心。我們非常感謝。\n\n9\n00:03:02,654 --> 00:03:17,575\n公共工程的建設從勞安到這個建設的進行都需要從這個工程會以及各機關共同來這個努力那麼才能夠來達成\n\n10\n00:03:19,161 --> 00:03:47,037\n那麼當然我很佩服剛剛委員看出問題從源頭那麼就要規定清楚那麼加上落實執行才能夠達到目標我想每一個勞工都是我們的同胞都是我們的人民都是我們建設的一份子我們都應該要給予來關心來照顧讓他不要這樣發生不要這樣讓他們的生命受到威脅這是我們應該努力的事情謝謝\n\n11\n00:03:48,877 --> 00:04:16,469\n主委還是謝謝你啦剛才我們有一個共識就是規範跟執行有了規範才有辦法去執行那執行這是被動的但是規範非常重要所以合約裡面你有這種比較先前的管理規劃這一點我確確實實對於我們工程會我確確實實是比較較為肯定那個署長我想請教你一下\n\n12\n00:04:17,989 --> 00:04:41,915\n我們說實在的當然因為這個合約的規劃主管機關是吳主委是工程會但是檢查機關變成是你現在有產生一個檢查有兩個步驟六都跟台灣省就我們勞動部也有自己的檢查機構但是六都你現在還是委託勞動局\n\n13\n00:04:44,566 --> 00:05:05,687\n勞動局他們在做檢查這個部分你們採取如何舉例在台北市勞動局在做檢查的時候那你們基於這些督導單位跟委辦單位你這個部分你對於整個處理的部分你如何去處理\n\n14\n00:05:06,768 --> 00:05:31,799\n謝謝委員提的指教那我們勞動部針對六都部分是授權勞動檢查機構實施勞動檢查那他檢查的方法程序標準是跟我們中央是一模一樣的那委員關心是我們如何督導這些地方檢查機構按照標準來進行我們每年除了考評之外我們重大工程會做聯合稽查那有發生重大事故的時候我們他實在的處理情形我要報告我們治安署做最後核定所以我們是採取\n\n15\n00:05:32,699 --> 00:05:36,122\n另外一個我要提供提供兩位所長也就是日本的參考資料你們一定要根據我所了解臺北市的公共工程臺北市的建築案\n\n16\n00:05:57,503 --> 00:05:57,743\n李卓人議員\n\n17\n00:06:12,677 --> 00:06:15,578\n最後一個我想請教署長營建業為什麼會這麼嚴重?\n\n18\n00:06:38,615 --> 00:06:55,734\n我跟你們講喔,依照新加坡、日本、英國來講,他們的職安只有40%喔,非常之低喔。但是我們的營建業在這裡是有70欸。署長你最清楚,這個部分你應該要怎麼樣去防範,怎麼樣去做。\n\n19\n00:06:58,230 --> 00:07:20,457\n謝謝委員我們營造業的職災死亡是全國的50%70%是墜落災害是所有的職災裡面是70%是墜落的部分所以我們認為說臺灣其實某種程度是乘升轉包造成我們管理上的缺失所以不管是契約上的要求跟現場的監督檢查不能只查大包下包的人有沒有做好安全衛生的管理跟措施也是我們的重點所以我們今年除了針對\n\n20\n00:07:22,378 --> 00:07:24,499\n最後我還是用30秒特別祝福我們吳主委長命百歲然後永遠快樂當然有機會回來找我們召集人召集人會請客我們會作陪\n\n21\n00:07:48,749 --> 00:07:49,370\n一、薪資二、\n\n22\n00:08:10,229 --> 00:08:25,354\n職安這兩個非常重要的沒有薪資可領他沒有辦法生活但是職安出問題他沒有生命所以這個部分這兩個要拜託把它規範下去好不好所以拜託兩位所長好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4417\t8259\t兩位所長說實在的昨天是勞動節今天感謝召委關心勞工排了今天的一個專案報告\n31440\t47089\t說實在勞工是被漠視的一群可是在這裡今天召委可以排這個基本上我們是感為敬佩但是我說實在的吳主委啊\n48735\t63448\t在公共工程裡面你有幾個作為啊我是加以肯定的就是勞工啊有時候整個你主管全國不是只有公共工程\n64369\t85626\t完全政府機關所屬的合約你就是主管機關但是這幾年有一個進步什麼進步呢公共工程委員會他去把合約的換本把薪資跟公安這個部分把它列進去這是對勞工的一個規範\n88396\t106164\t晚了以後才署長去做勞檢的執行所以規範很重要所以主委你確確實實是我少數啊在立法院裡面較為尊敬的為什麼規範勝過於檢查規範完善自然啊\n111565\t111585\t吳祖偉\n137313\t162663\t你未來在這個部分我相信你也扮演極為重要角色希望繼續對公共工程的合約的規範以及你的經驗要多加以在這裡提供意見但是我這個人是講究感情看到你這麼好的要離開吳主委一分鐘給你你有什麼感覺這幾年對於這個問題你有什麼感覺\n167903\t181553\t首先非常謝謝林委員對工程會的支持跟指教。從林委員上任之後,一直對扁會的存在與否也非常的關心。我們非常感謝。\n182654\t197575\t公共工程的建設從勞安到這個建設的進行都需要從這個工程會以及各機關共同來這個努力那麼才能夠來達成\n199161\t227037\t那麼當然我很佩服剛剛委員看出問題從源頭那麼就要規定清楚那麼加上落實執行才能夠達到目標我想每一個勞工都是我們的同胞都是我們的人民都是我們建設的一份子我們都應該要給予來關心來照顧讓他不要這樣發生不要這樣讓他們的生命受到威脅這是我們應該努力的事情謝謝\n228877\t256469\t主委還是謝謝你啦剛才我們有一個共識就是規範跟執行有了規範才有辦法去執行那執行這是被動的但是規範非常重要所以合約裡面你有這種比較先前的管理規劃這一點我確確實實對於我們工程會我確確實實是比較較為肯定那個署長我想請教你一下\n257989\t281915\t我們說實在的當然因為這個合約的規劃主管機關是吳主委是工程會但是檢查機關變成是你現在有產生一個檢查有兩個步驟六都跟台灣省就我們勞動部也有自己的檢查機構但是六都你現在還是委託勞動局\n284566\t305687\t勞動局他們在做檢查這個部分你們採取如何舉例在台北市勞動局在做檢查的時候那你們基於這些督導單位跟委辦單位你這個部分你對於整個處理的部分你如何去處理\n306768\t331799\t謝謝委員提的指教那我們勞動部針對六都部分是授權勞動檢查機構實施勞動檢查那他檢查的方法程序標準是跟我們中央是一模一樣的那委員關心是我們如何督導這些地方檢查機構按照標準來進行我們每年除了考評之外我們重大工程會做聯合稽查那有發生重大事故的時候我們他實在的處理情形我要報告我們治安署做最後核定所以我們是採取\n332699\t336122\t另外一個我要提供提供兩位所長也就是日本的參考資料你們一定要根據我所了解臺北市的公共工程臺北市的建築案\n357503\t357743\t李卓人議員\n372677\t375578\t最後一個我想請教署長營建業為什麼會這麼嚴重?\n398615\t415734\t我跟你們講喔,依照新加坡、日本、英國來講,他們的職安只有40%喔,非常之低喔。但是我們的營建業在這裡是有70欸。署長你最清楚,這個部分你應該要怎麼樣去防範,怎麼樣去做。\n418230\t440457\t謝謝委員我們營造業的職災死亡是全國的50%70%是墜落災害是所有的職災裡面是70%是墜落的部分所以我們認為說臺灣其實某種程度是乘升轉包造成我們管理上的缺失所以不管是契約上的要求跟現場的監督檢查不能只查大包下包的人有沒有做好安全衛生的管理跟措施也是我們的重點所以我們今年除了針對\n442378\t444499\t最後我還是用30秒特別祝福我們吳主委長命百歲然後永遠快樂當然有機會回來找我們召集人召集人會請客我們會作陪\n468749\t469370\t一、薪資二、\n490229\t505354\t職安這兩個非常重要的沒有薪資可領他沒有辦法生活但是職安出問題他沒有生命所以這個部分這兩個要拜託把它規範下去好不好所以拜託兩位所長好謝謝\n","txt":"兩位所長說實在的昨天是勞動節今天感謝召委關心勞工排了今天的一個專案報告\n說實在勞工是被漠視的一群可是在這裡今天召委可以排這個基本上我們是感為敬佩但是我說實在的吳主委啊\n在公共工程裡面你有幾個作為啊我是加以肯定的就是勞工啊有時候整個你主管全國不是只有公共工程\n完全政府機關所屬的合約你就是主管機關但是這幾年有一個進步什麼進步呢公共工程委員會他去把合約的換本把薪資跟公安這個部分把它列進去這是對勞工的一個規範\n晚了以後才署長去做勞檢的執行所以規範很重要所以主委你確確實實是我少數啊在立法院裡面較為尊敬的為什麼規範勝過於檢查規範完善自然啊\n吳祖偉\n你未來在這個部分我相信你也扮演極為重要角色希望繼續對公共工程的合約的規範以及你的經驗要多加以在這裡提供意見但是我這個人是講究感情看到你這麼好的要離開吳主委一分鐘給你你有什麼感覺這幾年對於這個問題你有什麼感覺\n首先非常謝謝林委員對工程會的支持跟指教。從林委員上任之後,一直對扁會的存在與否也非常的關心。我們非常感謝。\n公共工程的建設從勞安到這個建設的進行都需要從這個工程會以及各機關共同來這個努力那麼才能夠來達成\n那麼當然我很佩服剛剛委員看出問題從源頭那麼就要規定清楚那麼加上落實執行才能夠達到目標我想每一個勞工都是我們的同胞都是我們的人民都是我們建設的一份子我們都應該要給予來關心來照顧讓他不要這樣發生不要這樣讓他們的生命受到威脅這是我們應該努力的事情謝謝\n主委還是謝謝你啦剛才我們有一個共識就是規範跟執行有了規範才有辦法去執行那執行這是被動的但是規範非常重要所以合約裡面你有這種比較先前的管理規劃這一點我確確實實對於我們工程會我確確實實是比較較為肯定那個署長我想請教你一下\n我們說實在的當然因為這個合約的規劃主管機關是吳主委是工程會但是檢查機關變成是你現在有產生一個檢查有兩個步驟六都跟台灣省就我們勞動部也有自己的檢查機構但是六都你現在還是委託勞動局\n勞動局他們在做檢查這個部分你們採取如何舉例在台北市勞動局在做檢查的時候那你們基於這些督導單位跟委辦單位你這個部分你對於整個處理的部分你如何去處理\n謝謝委員提的指教那我們勞動部針對六都部分是授權勞動檢查機構實施勞動檢查那他檢查的方法程序標準是跟我們中央是一模一樣的那委員關心是我們如何督導這些地方檢查機構按照標準來進行我們每年除了考評之外我們重大工程會做聯合稽查那有發生重大事故的時候我們他實在的處理情形我要報告我們治安署做最後核定所以我們是採取\n另外一個我要提供提供兩位所長也就是日本的參考資料你們一定要根據我所了解臺北市的公共工程臺北市的建築案\n李卓人議員\n最後一個我想請教署長營建業為什麼會這麼嚴重?\n我跟你們講喔,依照新加坡、日本、英國來講,他們的職安只有40%喔,非常之低喔。但是我們的營建業在這裡是有70欸。署長你最清楚,這個部分你應該要怎麼樣去防範,怎麼樣去做。\n謝謝委員我們營造業的職災死亡是全國的50%70%是墜落災害是所有的職災裡面是70%是墜落的部分所以我們認為說臺灣其實某種程度是乘升轉包造成我們管理上的缺失所以不管是契約上的要求跟現場的監督檢查不能只查大包下包的人有沒有做好安全衛生的管理跟措施也是我們的重點所以我們今年除了針對\n最後我還是用30秒特別祝福我們吳主委長命百歲然後永遠快樂當然有機會回來找我們召集人召集人會請客我們會作陪\n一、薪資二、\n職安這兩個非常重要的沒有薪資可領他沒有辦法生活但是職安出問題他沒有生命所以這個部分這兩個要拜託把它規範下去好不好所以拜託兩位所長好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.417 --> 00:08.259\n兩位所長說實在的昨天是勞動節今天感謝召委關心勞工排了今天的一個專案報告\n\n00:31.440 --> 00:47.089\n說實在勞工是被漠視的一群可是在這裡今天召委可以排這個基本上我們是感為敬佩但是我說實在的吳主委啊\n\n00:48.735 --> 01:03.448\n在公共工程裡面你有幾個作為啊我是加以肯定的就是勞工啊有時候整個你主管全國不是只有公共工程\n\n01:04.369 --> 01:25.626\n完全政府機關所屬的合約你就是主管機關但是這幾年有一個進步什麼進步呢公共工程委員會他去把合約的換本把薪資跟公安這個部分把它列進去這是對勞工的一個規範\n\n01:28.396 --> 01:46.164\n晚了以後才署長去做勞檢的執行所以規範很重要所以主委你確確實實是我少數啊在立法院裡面較為尊敬的為什麼規範勝過於檢查規範完善自然啊\n\n01:51.565 --> 01:51.585\n吳祖偉\n\n02:17.313 --> 02:42.663\n你未來在這個部分我相信你也扮演極為重要角色希望繼續對公共工程的合約的規範以及你的經驗要多加以在這裡提供意見但是我這個人是講究感情看到你這麼好的要離開吳主委一分鐘給你你有什麼感覺這幾年對於這個問題你有什麼感覺\n\n02:47.903 --> 03:01.553\n首先非常謝謝林委員對工程會的支持跟指教。從林委員上任之後,一直對扁會的存在與否也非常的關心。我們非常感謝。\n\n03:02.654 --> 03:17.575\n公共工程的建設從勞安到這個建設的進行都需要從這個工程會以及各機關共同來這個努力那麼才能夠來達成\n\n03:19.161 --> 03:47.037\n那麼當然我很佩服剛剛委員看出問題從源頭那麼就要規定清楚那麼加上落實執行才能夠達到目標我想每一個勞工都是我們的同胞都是我們的人民都是我們建設的一份子我們都應該要給予來關心來照顧讓他不要這樣發生不要這樣讓他們的生命受到威脅這是我們應該努力的事情謝謝\n\n03:48.877 --> 04:16.469\n主委還是謝謝你啦剛才我們有一個共識就是規範跟執行有了規範才有辦法去執行那執行這是被動的但是規範非常重要所以合約裡面你有這種比較先前的管理規劃這一點我確確實實對於我們工程會我確確實實是比較較為肯定那個署長我想請教你一下\n\n04:17.989 --> 04:41.915\n我們說實在的當然因為這個合約的規劃主管機關是吳主委是工程會但是檢查機關變成是你現在有產生一個檢查有兩個步驟六都跟台灣省就我們勞動部也有自己的檢查機構但是六都你現在還是委託勞動局\n\n04:44.566 --> 05:05.687\n勞動局他們在做檢查這個部分你們採取如何舉例在台北市勞動局在做檢查的時候那你們基於這些督導單位跟委辦單位你這個部分你對於整個處理的部分你如何去處理\n\n05:06.768 --> 05:31.799\n謝謝委員提的指教那我們勞動部針對六都部分是授權勞動檢查機構實施勞動檢查那他檢查的方法程序標準是跟我們中央是一模一樣的那委員關心是我們如何督導這些地方檢查機構按照標準來進行我們每年除了考評之外我們重大工程會做聯合稽查那有發生重大事故的時候我們他實在的處理情形我要報告我們治安署做最後核定所以我們是採取\n\n05:32.699 --> 05:36.122\n另外一個我要提供提供兩位所長也就是日本的參考資料你們一定要根據我所了解臺北市的公共工程臺北市的建築案\n\n05:57.503 --> 05:57.743\n李卓人議員\n\n06:12.677 --> 06:15.578\n最後一個我想請教署長營建業為什麼會這麼嚴重?\n\n06:38.615 --> 06:55.734\n我跟你們講喔,依照新加坡、日本、英國來講,他們的職安只有40%喔,非常之低喔。但是我們的營建業在這裡是有70欸。署長你最清楚,這個部分你應該要怎麼樣去防範,怎麼樣去做。\n\n06:58.230 --> 07:20.457\n謝謝委員我們營造業的職災死亡是全國的50%70%是墜落災害是所有的職災裡面是70%是墜落的部分所以我們認為說臺灣其實某種程度是乘升轉包造成我們管理上的缺失所以不管是契約上的要求跟現場的監督檢查不能只查大包下包的人有沒有做好安全衛生的管理跟措施也是我們的重點所以我們今年除了針對\n\n07:22.378 --> 07:24.499\n最後我還是用30秒特別祝福我們吳主委長命百歲然後永遠快樂當然有機會回來找我們召集人召集人會請客我們會作陪\n\n07:48.749 --> 07:49.370\n一、薪資二、\n\n08:10.229 --> 08:25.354\n職安這兩個非常重要的沒有薪資可領他沒有辦法生活但是職安出問題他沒有生命所以這個部分這兩個要拜託把它規範下去好不好所以拜託兩位所長好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.417,"end":8.259,"text":"兩位所長說實在的昨天是勞動節今天感謝召委關心勞工排了今天的一個專案報告"},{"start":31.44,"end":47.089,"text":"說實在勞工是被漠視的一群可是在這裡今天召委可以排這個基本上我們是感為敬佩但是我說實在的吳主委啊"},{"start":48.735,"end":63.448,"text":"在公共工程裡面你有幾個作為啊我是加以肯定的就是勞工啊有時候整個你主管全國不是只有公共工程"},{"start":64.369,"end":85.626,"text":"完全政府機關所屬的合約你就是主管機關但是這幾年有一個進步什麼進步呢公共工程委員會他去把合約的換本把薪資跟公安這個部分把它列進去這是對勞工的一個規範"},{"start":88.396,"end":106.164,"text":"晚了以後才署長去做勞檢的執行所以規範很重要所以主委你確確實實是我少數啊在立法院裡面較為尊敬的為什麼規範勝過於檢查規範完善自然啊"},{"start":111.565,"end":111.585,"text":"吳祖偉"},{"start":137.313,"end":162.663,"text":"你未來在這個部分我相信你也扮演極為重要角色希望繼續對公共工程的合約的規範以及你的經驗要多加以在這裡提供意見但是我這個人是講究感情看到你這麼好的要離開吳主委一分鐘給你你有什麼感覺這幾年對於這個問題你有什麼感覺"},{"start":167.903,"end":181.553,"text":"首先非常謝謝林委員對工程會的支持跟指教。從林委員上任之後,一直對扁會的存在與否也非常的關心。我們非常感謝。"},{"start":182.654,"end":197.575,"text":"公共工程的建設從勞安到這個建設的進行都需要從這個工程會以及各機關共同來這個努力那麼才能夠來達成"},{"start":199.161,"end":227.037,"text":"那麼當然我很佩服剛剛委員看出問題從源頭那麼就要規定清楚那麼加上落實執行才能夠達到目標我想每一個勞工都是我們的同胞都是我們的人民都是我們建設的一份子我們都應該要給予來關心來照顧讓他不要這樣發生不要這樣讓他們的生命受到威脅這是我們應該努力的事情謝謝"},{"start":228.877,"end":256.469,"text":"主委還是謝謝你啦剛才我們有一個共識就是規範跟執行有了規範才有辦法去執行那執行這是被動的但是規範非常重要所以合約裡面你有這種比較先前的管理規劃這一點我確確實實對於我們工程會我確確實實是比較較為肯定那個署長我想請教你一下"},{"start":257.989,"end":281.915,"text":"我們說實在的當然因為這個合約的規劃主管機關是吳主委是工程會但是檢查機關變成是你現在有產生一個檢查有兩個步驟六都跟台灣省就我們勞動部也有自己的檢查機構但是六都你現在還是委託勞動局"},{"start":284.566,"end":305.687,"text":"勞動局他們在做檢查這個部分你們採取如何舉例在台北市勞動局在做檢查的時候那你們基於這些督導單位跟委辦單位你這個部分你對於整個處理的部分你如何去處理"},{"start":306.768,"end":331.799,"text":"謝謝委員提的指教那我們勞動部針對六都部分是授權勞動檢查機構實施勞動檢查那他檢查的方法程序標準是跟我們中央是一模一樣的那委員關心是我們如何督導這些地方檢查機構按照標準來進行我們每年除了考評之外我們重大工程會做聯合稽查那有發生重大事故的時候我們他實在的處理情形我要報告我們治安署做最後核定所以我們是採取"},{"start":332.699,"end":336.122,"text":"另外一個我要提供提供兩位所長也就是日本的參考資料你們一定要根據我所了解臺北市的公共工程臺北市的建築案"},{"start":357.503,"end":357.743,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":372.677,"end":375.578,"text":"最後一個我想請教署長營建業為什麼會這麼嚴重?"},{"start":398.615,"end":415.734,"text":"我跟你們講喔,依照新加坡、日本、英國來講,他們的職安只有40%喔,非常之低喔。但是我們的營建業在這裡是有70欸。署長你最清楚,這個部分你應該要怎麼樣去防範,怎麼樣去做。"},{"start":418.23,"end":440.457,"text":"謝謝委員我們營造業的職災死亡是全國的50%70%是墜落災害是所有的職災裡面是70%是墜落的部分所以我們認為說臺灣其實某種程度是乘升轉包造成我們管理上的缺失所以不管是契約上的要求跟現場的監督檢查不能只查大包下包的人有沒有做好安全衛生的管理跟措施也是我們的重點所以我們今年除了針對"},{"start":442.378,"end":444.499,"text":"最後我還是用30秒特別祝福我們吳主委長命百歲然後永遠快樂當然有機會回來找我們召集人召集人會請客我們會作陪"},{"start":468.749,"end":469.37,"text":"一、薪資二、"},{"start":490.229,"end":505.354,"text":"職安這兩個非常重要的沒有薪資可領他沒有辦法生活但是職安出問題他沒有生命所以這個部分這兩個要拜託把它規範下去好不好所以拜託兩位所長好謝謝"}]}}}}