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{\"word\": \"欣\", \"start\": 615.47, \"end\": 615.49, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"純\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 615.49, \"end\": 615.51, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,466 --> 00:00:02,786\n請吾主委\n\n2\n00:00:20,970 --> 00:00:34,877\n三月四日我曾經質詢有關碳排資料庫的事情。這有關公共工程有大宗資產的碳排盤點現況。所以三月四日到現在不知道進度如何?\n\n3\n00:00:37,549 --> 00:00:49,866\n有關碳排的減量的問題工程會一直在推動這樣的一個做法是但是一直沒有一個一個量的一個限制鼓勵的限制來要求\n\n4\n00:00:51,105 --> 00:01:10,595\n所以我才會在質詢的時候在希望我們公共工程委員會能夠更積極更進一步的我們希望能夠逐步的建立我當然知道要一步到位是不可能但是這個是我們近年碳排的未來一定要做的\n\n5\n00:01:11,015 --> 00:01:11,255\n主委可以嗎?可以\n\n6\n00:01:37,082 --> 00:01:57,417\n因為呢,我們今天也會處理一個臨時提案,我有連署蔡其昌委員,共同來提案,我們就是認為說在這個綠色的一個採購,公共工程的綠色採購裡面,我們如何能夠由政府的力量來扶植,來大力的推進,這個是很重要的一件事,不是嗎?因為這是環環相扣的。\n\n7\n00:01:59,159 --> 00:01:59,179\n對,我們會來...\n\n8\n00:02:16,935 --> 00:02:39,648\n參與推動檢探這個我相信我們既然未來要做而且是國家的政策目標所以拜託主委這個520之後跟新任的主委一定要好好的銜接把這一項列入是重點我們公共工程委員會的業務好不好重點業務好不好拜託拜託那進度是不是給我書面報告一份好不好我希望知道說從3月到現在\n\n9\n00:02:41,869 --> 00:02:47,300\n第二、我要請教主委,等一下可能,欸,治安署今天有到對不對,台中捷運\n\n10\n00:02:49,155 --> 00:02:53,576\n臺中捷運這個吊塔掉落這個牽涉到這個工地的一個安全問題工地管理的問題那我們看到監察院的報告已經出來了監察院的報告他認為長期的代付跟終結原先的設計不良等等因素那終結原先的設計不良那個我們另外再討論但是起碼我們今天在講的是什麼工地上的職安的問題\n\n11\n00:03:17,162 --> 00:03:35,882\n那這職案不僅僅牽涉到工地現場的勞工朋友們,它也牽涉到外部的我們所有人民的一個安全的問題。從台中捷運這件事情是給我們一個非常生痛的教訓。那既然有了這麼慘痛的教訓,那我們怎麼去改進?\n\n12\n00:03:36,903 --> 00:03:48,159\n那監察院的報告給兩位做個參考跟你們兩位都有關係一個職安署對塔式的起重機的檢查跟控管不足那也沒有跟地方政府做聯繫那裡面還有我們對現場作業的勞工\n\n13\n00:03:52,725 --> 00:04:15,017\n沒有依SOP來操作,也沒有採取安全的作業方法,便宜行事。再來又講到職安署長年來消極,消極的職場減災宣導。那我們國內的營造業大小規模非常不一致,所以呢能量也不一致,能力也不一致,那所以長期對公安的輕忽\n\n14\n00:04:16,117 --> 00:04:42,634\n這也是原因之一啦那長期在國內的工地的營造業的這個公安就牽涉到你們兩個部會嘛一個勞動部的職安署跟當然地方在地方政府中央另外公共工程委員會這也必須要負責任啊因為我知道公共工程委員會他對於各公共或者是民間的各項的這個工程的一個工地裡面也有所謂的安全指引啊還有減災指引啊還有\n\n15\n00:04:45,936 --> 00:05:10,628\n我記得還有什麼緊急什麼避難啊什麼什麼的指引反正指引一堆我有去上網去看了一下那我們公共工程委員會都是頒布指引然後都寫一張公文比如說0403花蓮地震之後那你們也發了一紙公文要求從中央到地方各行政機關呢大家呢都要注意盤點這個公共工程跟公共建物的這個安全問題\n\n16\n00:05:11,989 --> 00:05:25,902\n我通常說公共工程委員會不是只有發公文或是頒布指引而已啦那如何去要求跟落實我覺得就透過剛剛很多委員都提到你們都有在稽查你們在稽查了之後呢除了開法\n\n17\n00:05:27,003 --> 00:05:50,403\n那還有什麼樣的措施那所以呢等一下請公共工程委員會吳主委回答那我也另外請職安署我們啊署長也告訴我們說那從終結事故之後職安署又看到了監察院的報告之後又對我們工地上的這個安全的管理還有勞工的職場安全的管理那又是如何吳主委要先回答嗎好\n\n18\n00:05:51,707 --> 00:06:09,014\n有關公共工程相關的安全等等當然公共工程委員會他不是執行機關他會要求各機關要來落實來執行但是我們公共工程委員會在要求各機關要來落實的時候我們又是如何知道各\n\n19\n00:06:10,382 --> 00:06:26,641\n相關的機關有沒有落實?你們掌握管控的工具是什麼?主委我們就透過他們的執行我們會管控他的一個現場作業的進度跟狀況那麼會要求他的主辦機關上級機關應該要落實去執行\n\n20\n00:06:30,385 --> 00:06:46,131\n那剛剛委員提到這一個案件的狀況除了這邊提到的這一個本身吊塔這個部分的安全不周延之外我們後來做了一個指引要求像這樣一個高空作業\n\n21\n00:06:48,011 --> 00:07:14,436\n所以在這件事故之前我們對下面的進空的這個指引是沒有的是到這個事故之後才有的這個指引其實本來就要做他沒有做那我們所以這個就是公共工程委員會我現在就是要求嘛既然\n\n22\n00:07:15,316 --> 00:07:39,349\n主委你這樣跟我講了我就覺得痛心你知道嗎如果本來就有這樣的指引為什麼沒有辦法落實那為什麼相關的單位沒有辦法去要求落實那所以你又發了一次公文來提醒各個行政機關說如果有調查這個工程有調查式的這個程序在進行的時候下面一定要淨空所以你又再發公文提醒各個行政單位\n\n23\n00:07:41,847 --> 00:07:57,263\n不是這樣本來他就應該要這樣做他沒有做我們今天是再度提醒所以你再度提醒阿有罰則嗎這個部分你沒有依照勞安的規定本來就要處罰的阿是嗎所以來阿署長請說\n\n24\n00:07:59,349 --> 00:08:26,455\n報告委員有關交委的部分有個管全責在採用這個案子,交委的部分等一下吳主委你聽喔,這個不是治安署他說下面的淨空是交委,交委又是誰管的交委是你可能跟我講說是他們地方的交通局那這個採取當然是地方政府的事情但是呢我覺得公共工程委員會在這件事情上面應該在強烈的要求要落實這個指引好,那來,署長不好意思\n\n25\n00:08:27,384 --> 00:08:51,482\n學委這個凍結的建造院的報告我們敘敘受教那我們第一時間針對全國的領域的工程總共是有109個工程我們做全面的檢查因為台大的部分去年底部分有全國242個工地我們做全部的檢查那有關事發案子的建造公司有44個工地全國我們做檢查那重點就是說是這個個案這個雖然不是職災但是對我們來講是很重大的衝擊\n\n26\n00:08:54,223 --> 00:09:12,208\n公共安全事故但相對影響所以我們這個個案持續不斷要求地方檢查機構這個落實度的展開橫向聯繫非常重要像我們的有些案子審查之後地方交通單位知不知道這個個案交回機會能不能跟上去也是統合的整理的需要做橫向的\n\n27\n00:09:31,147 --> 00:09:51,429\n署長我是建議啦現場的這個工地的安全的指引當然公共工程委員會不斷的去要求我們職安署也要不斷的去要求我們現場執行勤務的工作人員你剛剛講的第一個他有沒有落實他的作業的一個SOP第二個他有沒有所謂的在職\n\n28\n00:09:54,691 --> 00:10:13,756\n三、如何確保在現場執行勤務的施工工作人員能夠把所有的安全措施做到到位。我覺得這個方方面面都需要我們跨部會跟地方政府大家一起合作好不好,而且可以思考一下如何去獎勵落實。\n\n29\n00:10:15,390 --> 00:10:15,510\n何欣純委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2466\t2786\t請吾主委\n20970\t34877\t三月四日我曾經質詢有關碳排資料庫的事情。這有關公共工程有大宗資產的碳排盤點現況。所以三月四日到現在不知道進度如何?\n37549\t49866\t有關碳排的減量的問題工程會一直在推動這樣的一個做法是但是一直沒有一個一個量的一個限制鼓勵的限制來要求\n51105\t70595\t所以我才會在質詢的時候在希望我們公共工程委員會能夠更積極更進一步的我們希望能夠逐步的建立我當然知道要一步到位是不可能但是這個是我們近年碳排的未來一定要做的\n71015\t71255\t主委可以嗎?可以\n97082\t117417\t因為呢,我們今天也會處理一個臨時提案,我有連署蔡其昌委員,共同來提案,我們就是認為說在這個綠色的一個採購,公共工程的綠色採購裡面,我們如何能夠由政府的力量來扶植,來大力的推進,這個是很重要的一件事,不是嗎?因為這是環環相扣的。\n119159\t119179\t對,我們會來...\n136935\t159648\t參與推動檢探這個我相信我們既然未來要做而且是國家的政策目標所以拜託主委這個520之後跟新任的主委一定要好好的銜接把這一項列入是重點我們公共工程委員會的業務好不好重點業務好不好拜託拜託那進度是不是給我書面報告一份好不好我希望知道說從3月到現在\n161869\t167300\t第二、我要請教主委,等一下可能,欸,治安署今天有到對不對,台中捷運\n169155\t173576\t臺中捷運這個吊塔掉落這個牽涉到這個工地的一個安全問題工地管理的問題那我們看到監察院的報告已經出來了監察院的報告他認為長期的代付跟終結原先的設計不良等等因素那終結原先的設計不良那個我們另外再討論但是起碼我們今天在講的是什麼工地上的職安的問題\n197162\t215882\t那這職案不僅僅牽涉到工地現場的勞工朋友們,它也牽涉到外部的我們所有人民的一個安全的問題。從台中捷運這件事情是給我們一個非常生痛的教訓。那既然有了這麼慘痛的教訓,那我們怎麼去改進?\n216903\t228159\t那監察院的報告給兩位做個參考跟你們兩位都有關係一個職安署對塔式的起重機的檢查跟控管不足那也沒有跟地方政府做聯繫那裡面還有我們對現場作業的勞工\n232725\t255017\t沒有依SOP來操作,也沒有採取安全的作業方法,便宜行事。再來又講到職安署長年來消極,消極的職場減災宣導。那我們國內的營造業大小規模非常不一致,所以呢能量也不一致,能力也不一致,那所以長期對公安的輕忽\n256117\t282634\t這也是原因之一啦那長期在國內的工地的營造業的這個公安就牽涉到你們兩個部會嘛一個勞動部的職安署跟當然地方在地方政府中央另外公共工程委員會這也必須要負責任啊因為我知道公共工程委員會他對於各公共或者是民間的各項的這個工程的一個工地裡面也有所謂的安全指引啊還有減災指引啊還有\n285936\t310628\t我記得還有什麼緊急什麼避難啊什麼什麼的指引反正指引一堆我有去上網去看了一下那我們公共工程委員會都是頒布指引然後都寫一張公文比如說0403花蓮地震之後那你們也發了一紙公文要求從中央到地方各行政機關呢大家呢都要注意盤點這個公共工程跟公共建物的這個安全問題\n311989\t325902\t我通常說公共工程委員會不是只有發公文或是頒布指引而已啦那如何去要求跟落實我覺得就透過剛剛很多委員都提到你們都有在稽查你們在稽查了之後呢除了開法\n327003\t350403\t那還有什麼樣的措施那所以呢等一下請公共工程委員會吳主委回答那我也另外請職安署我們啊署長也告訴我們說那從終結事故之後職安署又看到了監察院的報告之後又對我們工地上的這個安全的管理還有勞工的職場安全的管理那又是如何吳主委要先回答嗎好\n351707\t369014\t有關公共工程相關的安全等等當然公共工程委員會他不是執行機關他會要求各機關要來落實來執行但是我們公共工程委員會在要求各機關要來落實的時候我們又是如何知道各\n370382\t386641\t相關的機關有沒有落實?你們掌握管控的工具是什麼?主委我們就透過他們的執行我們會管控他的一個現場作業的進度跟狀況那麼會要求他的主辦機關上級機關應該要落實去執行\n390385\t406131\t那剛剛委員提到這一個案件的狀況除了這邊提到的這一個本身吊塔這個部分的安全不周延之外我們後來做了一個指引要求像這樣一個高空作業\n408011\t434436\t所以在這件事故之前我們對下面的進空的這個指引是沒有的是到這個事故之後才有的這個指引其實本來就要做他沒有做那我們所以這個就是公共工程委員會我現在就是要求嘛既然\n435316\t459349\t主委你這樣跟我講了我就覺得痛心你知道嗎如果本來就有這樣的指引為什麼沒有辦法落實那為什麼相關的單位沒有辦法去要求落實那所以你又發了一次公文來提醒各個行政機關說如果有調查這個工程有調查式的這個程序在進行的時候下面一定要淨空所以你又再發公文提醒各個行政單位\n461847\t477263\t不是這樣本來他就應該要這樣做他沒有做我們今天是再度提醒所以你再度提醒阿有罰則嗎這個部分你沒有依照勞安的規定本來就要處罰的阿是嗎所以來阿署長請說\n479349\t506455\t報告委員有關交委的部分有個管全責在採用這個案子,交委的部分等一下吳主委你聽喔,這個不是治安署他說下面的淨空是交委,交委又是誰管的交委是你可能跟我講說是他們地方的交通局那這個採取當然是地方政府的事情但是呢我覺得公共工程委員會在這件事情上面應該在強烈的要求要落實這個指引好,那來,署長不好意思\n507384\t531482\t學委這個凍結的建造院的報告我們敘敘受教那我們第一時間針對全國的領域的工程總共是有109個工程我們做全面的檢查因為台大的部分去年底部分有全國242個工地我們做全部的檢查那有關事發案子的建造公司有44個工地全國我們做檢查那重點就是說是這個個案這個雖然不是職災但是對我們來講是很重大的衝擊\n534223\t552208\t公共安全事故但相對影響所以我們這個個案持續不斷要求地方檢查機構這個落實度的展開橫向聯繫非常重要像我們的有些案子審查之後地方交通單位知不知道這個個案交回機會能不能跟上去也是統合的整理的需要做橫向的\n552688\t570947\t來﹖\n571147\t591429\t署長我是建議啦現場的這個工地的安全的指引當然公共工程委員會不斷的去要求我們職安署也要不斷的去要求我們現場執行勤務的工作人員你剛剛講的第一個他有沒有落實他的作業的一個SOP第二個他有沒有所謂的在職\n594691\t613756\t三、如何確保在現場執行勤務的施工工作人員能夠把所有的安全措施做到到位。我覺得這個方方面面都需要我們跨部會跟地方政府大家一起合作好不好,而且可以思考一下如何去獎勵落實。\n615390\t615510\t何欣純委員\n","txt":"請吾主委\n三月四日我曾經質詢有關碳排資料庫的事情。這有關公共工程有大宗資產的碳排盤點現況。所以三月四日到現在不知道進度如何?\n有關碳排的減量的問題工程會一直在推動這樣的一個做法是但是一直沒有一個一個量的一個限制鼓勵的限制來要求\n所以我才會在質詢的時候在希望我們公共工程委員會能夠更積極更進一步的我們希望能夠逐步的建立我當然知道要一步到位是不可能但是這個是我們近年碳排的未來一定要做的\n主委可以嗎?可以\n因為呢,我們今天也會處理一個臨時提案,我有連署蔡其昌委員,共同來提案,我們就是認為說在這個綠色的一個採購,公共工程的綠色採購裡面,我們如何能夠由政府的力量來扶植,來大力的推進,這個是很重要的一件事,不是嗎?因為這是環環相扣的。\n對,我們會來...\n參與推動檢探這個我相信我們既然未來要做而且是國家的政策目標所以拜託主委這個520之後跟新任的主委一定要好好的銜接把這一項列入是重點我們公共工程委員會的業務好不好重點業務好不好拜託拜託那進度是不是給我書面報告一份好不好我希望知道說從3月到現在\n第二、我要請教主委,等一下可能,欸,治安署今天有到對不對,台中捷運\n臺中捷運這個吊塔掉落這個牽涉到這個工地的一個安全問題工地管理的問題那我們看到監察院的報告已經出來了監察院的報告他認為長期的代付跟終結原先的設計不良等等因素那終結原先的設計不良那個我們另外再討論但是起碼我們今天在講的是什麼工地上的職安的問題\n那這職案不僅僅牽涉到工地現場的勞工朋友們,它也牽涉到外部的我們所有人民的一個安全的問題。從台中捷運這件事情是給我們一個非常生痛的教訓。那既然有了這麼慘痛的教訓,那我們怎麼去改進?\n那監察院的報告給兩位做個參考跟你們兩位都有關係一個職安署對塔式的起重機的檢查跟控管不足那也沒有跟地方政府做聯繫那裡面還有我們對現場作業的勞工\n沒有依SOP來操作,也沒有採取安全的作業方法,便宜行事。再來又講到職安署長年來消極,消極的職場減災宣導。那我們國內的營造業大小規模非常不一致,所以呢能量也不一致,能力也不一致,那所以長期對公安的輕忽\n這也是原因之一啦那長期在國內的工地的營造業的這個公安就牽涉到你們兩個部會嘛一個勞動部的職安署跟當然地方在地方政府中央另外公共工程委員會這也必須要負責任啊因為我知道公共工程委員會他對於各公共或者是民間的各項的這個工程的一個工地裡面也有所謂的安全指引啊還有減災指引啊還有\n我記得還有什麼緊急什麼避難啊什麼什麼的指引反正指引一堆我有去上網去看了一下那我們公共工程委員會都是頒布指引然後都寫一張公文比如說0403花蓮地震之後那你們也發了一紙公文要求從中央到地方各行政機關呢大家呢都要注意盤點這個公共工程跟公共建物的這個安全問題\n我通常說公共工程委員會不是只有發公文或是頒布指引而已啦那如何去要求跟落實我覺得就透過剛剛很多委員都提到你們都有在稽查你們在稽查了之後呢除了開法\n那還有什麼樣的措施那所以呢等一下請公共工程委員會吳主委回答那我也另外請職安署我們啊署長也告訴我們說那從終結事故之後職安署又看到了監察院的報告之後又對我們工地上的這個安全的管理還有勞工的職場安全的管理那又是如何吳主委要先回答嗎好\n有關公共工程相關的安全等等當然公共工程委員會他不是執行機關他會要求各機關要來落實來執行但是我們公共工程委員會在要求各機關要來落實的時候我們又是如何知道各\n相關的機關有沒有落實?你們掌握管控的工具是什麼?主委我們就透過他們的執行我們會管控他的一個現場作業的進度跟狀況那麼會要求他的主辦機關上級機關應該要落實去執行\n那剛剛委員提到這一個案件的狀況除了這邊提到的這一個本身吊塔這個部分的安全不周延之外我們後來做了一個指引要求像這樣一個高空作業\n所以在這件事故之前我們對下面的進空的這個指引是沒有的是到這個事故之後才有的這個指引其實本來就要做他沒有做那我們所以這個就是公共工程委員會我現在就是要求嘛既然\n主委你這樣跟我講了我就覺得痛心你知道嗎如果本來就有這樣的指引為什麼沒有辦法落實那為什麼相關的單位沒有辦法去要求落實那所以你又發了一次公文來提醒各個行政機關說如果有調查這個工程有調查式的這個程序在進行的時候下面一定要淨空所以你又再發公文提醒各個行政單位\n不是這樣本來他就應該要這樣做他沒有做我們今天是再度提醒所以你再度提醒阿有罰則嗎這個部分你沒有依照勞安的規定本來就要處罰的阿是嗎所以來阿署長請說\n報告委員有關交委的部分有個管全責在採用這個案子,交委的部分等一下吳主委你聽喔,這個不是治安署他說下面的淨空是交委,交委又是誰管的交委是你可能跟我講說是他們地方的交通局那這個採取當然是地方政府的事情但是呢我覺得公共工程委員會在這件事情上面應該在強烈的要求要落實這個指引好,那來,署長不好意思\n學委這個凍結的建造院的報告我們敘敘受教那我們第一時間針對全國的領域的工程總共是有109個工程我們做全面的檢查因為台大的部分去年底部分有全國242個工地我們做全部的檢查那有關事發案子的建造公司有44個工地全國我們做檢查那重點就是說是這個個案這個雖然不是職災但是對我們來講是很重大的衝擊\n公共安全事故但相對影響所以我們這個個案持續不斷要求地方檢查機構這個落實度的展開橫向聯繫非常重要像我們的有些案子審查之後地方交通單位知不知道這個個案交回機會能不能跟上去也是統合的整理的需要做橫向的\n來﹖\n署長我是建議啦現場的這個工地的安全的指引當然公共工程委員會不斷的去要求我們職安署也要不斷的去要求我們現場執行勤務的工作人員你剛剛講的第一個他有沒有落實他的作業的一個SOP第二個他有沒有所謂的在職\n三、如何確保在現場執行勤務的施工工作人員能夠把所有的安全措施做到到位。我覺得這個方方面面都需要我們跨部會跟地方政府大家一起合作好不好,而且可以思考一下如何去獎勵落實。\n何欣純委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.466 --> 00:02.786\n請吾主委\n\n00:20.970 --> 00:34.877\n三月四日我曾經質詢有關碳排資料庫的事情。這有關公共工程有大宗資產的碳排盤點現況。所以三月四日到現在不知道進度如何?\n\n00:37.549 --> 00:49.866\n有關碳排的減量的問題工程會一直在推動這樣的一個做法是但是一直沒有一個一個量的一個限制鼓勵的限制來要求\n\n00:51.105 --> 01:10.595\n所以我才會在質詢的時候在希望我們公共工程委員會能夠更積極更進一步的我們希望能夠逐步的建立我當然知道要一步到位是不可能但是這個是我們近年碳排的未來一定要做的\n\n01:11.015 --> 01:11.255\n主委可以嗎?可以\n\n01:37.082 --> 01:57.417\n因為呢,我們今天也會處理一個臨時提案,我有連署蔡其昌委員,共同來提案,我們就是認為說在這個綠色的一個採購,公共工程的綠色採購裡面,我們如何能夠由政府的力量來扶植,來大力的推進,這個是很重要的一件事,不是嗎?因為這是環環相扣的。\n\n01:59.159 --> 01:59.179\n對,我們會來...\n\n02:16.935 --> 02:39.648\n參與推動檢探這個我相信我們既然未來要做而且是國家的政策目標所以拜託主委這個520之後跟新任的主委一定要好好的銜接把這一項列入是重點我們公共工程委員會的業務好不好重點業務好不好拜託拜託那進度是不是給我書面報告一份好不好我希望知道說從3月到現在\n\n02:41.869 --> 02:47.300\n第二、我要請教主委,等一下可能,欸,治安署今天有到對不對,台中捷運\n\n02:49.155 --> 02:53.576\n臺中捷運這個吊塔掉落這個牽涉到這個工地的一個安全問題工地管理的問題那我們看到監察院的報告已經出來了監察院的報告他認為長期的代付跟終結原先的設計不良等等因素那終結原先的設計不良那個我們另外再討論但是起碼我們今天在講的是什麼工地上的職安的問題\n\n03:17.162 --> 03:35.882\n那這職案不僅僅牽涉到工地現場的勞工朋友們,它也牽涉到外部的我們所有人民的一個安全的問題。從台中捷運這件事情是給我們一個非常生痛的教訓。那既然有了這麼慘痛的教訓,那我們怎麼去改進?\n\n03:36.903 --> 03:48.159\n那監察院的報告給兩位做個參考跟你們兩位都有關係一個職安署對塔式的起重機的檢查跟控管不足那也沒有跟地方政府做聯繫那裡面還有我們對現場作業的勞工\n\n03:52.725 --> 04:15.017\n沒有依SOP來操作,也沒有採取安全的作業方法,便宜行事。再來又講到職安署長年來消極,消極的職場減災宣導。那我們國內的營造業大小規模非常不一致,所以呢能量也不一致,能力也不一致,那所以長期對公安的輕忽\n\n04:16.117 --> 04:42.634\n這也是原因之一啦那長期在國內的工地的營造業的這個公安就牽涉到你們兩個部會嘛一個勞動部的職安署跟當然地方在地方政府中央另外公共工程委員會這也必須要負責任啊因為我知道公共工程委員會他對於各公共或者是民間的各項的這個工程的一個工地裡面也有所謂的安全指引啊還有減災指引啊還有\n\n04:45.936 --> 05:10.628\n我記得還有什麼緊急什麼避難啊什麼什麼的指引反正指引一堆我有去上網去看了一下那我們公共工程委員會都是頒布指引然後都寫一張公文比如說0403花蓮地震之後那你們也發了一紙公文要求從中央到地方各行政機關呢大家呢都要注意盤點這個公共工程跟公共建物的這個安全問題\n\n05:11.989 --> 05:25.902\n我通常說公共工程委員會不是只有發公文或是頒布指引而已啦那如何去要求跟落實我覺得就透過剛剛很多委員都提到你們都有在稽查你們在稽查了之後呢除了開法\n\n05:27.003 --> 05:50.403\n那還有什麼樣的措施那所以呢等一下請公共工程委員會吳主委回答那我也另外請職安署我們啊署長也告訴我們說那從終結事故之後職安署又看到了監察院的報告之後又對我們工地上的這個安全的管理還有勞工的職場安全的管理那又是如何吳主委要先回答嗎好\n\n05:51.707 --> 06:09.014\n有關公共工程相關的安全等等當然公共工程委員會他不是執行機關他會要求各機關要來落實來執行但是我們公共工程委員會在要求各機關要來落實的時候我們又是如何知道各\n\n06:10.382 --> 06:26.641\n相關的機關有沒有落實?你們掌握管控的工具是什麼?主委我們就透過他們的執行我們會管控他的一個現場作業的進度跟狀況那麼會要求他的主辦機關上級機關應該要落實去執行\n\n06:30.385 --> 06:46.131\n那剛剛委員提到這一個案件的狀況除了這邊提到的這一個本身吊塔這個部分的安全不周延之外我們後來做了一個指引要求像這樣一個高空作業\n\n06:48.011 --> 07:14.436\n所以在這件事故之前我們對下面的進空的這個指引是沒有的是到這個事故之後才有的這個指引其實本來就要做他沒有做那我們所以這個就是公共工程委員會我現在就是要求嘛既然\n\n07:15.316 --> 07:39.349\n主委你這樣跟我講了我就覺得痛心你知道嗎如果本來就有這樣的指引為什麼沒有辦法落實那為什麼相關的單位沒有辦法去要求落實那所以你又發了一次公文來提醒各個行政機關說如果有調查這個工程有調查式的這個程序在進行的時候下面一定要淨空所以你又再發公文提醒各個行政單位\n\n07:41.847 --> 07:57.263\n不是這樣本來他就應該要這樣做他沒有做我們今天是再度提醒所以你再度提醒阿有罰則嗎這個部分你沒有依照勞安的規定本來就要處罰的阿是嗎所以來阿署長請說\n\n07:59.349 --> 08:26.455\n報告委員有關交委的部分有個管全責在採用這個案子,交委的部分等一下吳主委你聽喔,這個不是治安署他說下面的淨空是交委,交委又是誰管的交委是你可能跟我講說是他們地方的交通局那這個採取當然是地方政府的事情但是呢我覺得公共工程委員會在這件事情上面應該在強烈的要求要落實這個指引好,那來,署長不好意思\n\n08:27.384 --> 08:51.482\n學委這個凍結的建造院的報告我們敘敘受教那我們第一時間針對全國的領域的工程總共是有109個工程我們做全面的檢查因為台大的部分去年底部分有全國242個工地我們做全部的檢查那有關事發案子的建造公司有44個工地全國我們做檢查那重點就是說是這個個案這個雖然不是職災但是對我們來講是很重大的衝擊\n\n08:54.223 --> 09:12.208\n公共安全事故但相對影響所以我們這個個案持續不斷要求地方檢查機構這個落實度的展開橫向聯繫非常重要像我們的有些案子審查之後地方交通單位知不知道這個個案交回機會能不能跟上去也是統合的整理的需要做橫向的\n\n09:31.147 --> 09:51.429\n署長我是建議啦現場的這個工地的安全的指引當然公共工程委員會不斷的去要求我們職安署也要不斷的去要求我們現場執行勤務的工作人員你剛剛講的第一個他有沒有落實他的作業的一個SOP第二個他有沒有所謂的在職\n\n09:54.691 --> 10:13.756\n三、如何確保在現場執行勤務的施工工作人員能夠把所有的安全措施做到到位。我覺得這個方方面面都需要我們跨部會跟地方政府大家一起合作好不好,而且可以思考一下如何去獎勵落實。\n\n10:15.390 --> 10:15.510\n何欣純委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.466,"end":2.786,"text":"請吾主委"},{"start":20.97,"end":34.877,"text":"三月四日我曾經質詢有關碳排資料庫的事情。這有關公共工程有大宗資產的碳排盤點現況。所以三月四日到現在不知道進度如何?"},{"start":37.549,"end":49.866,"text":"有關碳排的減量的問題工程會一直在推動這樣的一個做法是但是一直沒有一個一個量的一個限制鼓勵的限制來要求"},{"start":51.105,"end":70.595,"text":"所以我才會在質詢的時候在希望我們公共工程委員會能夠更積極更進一步的我們希望能夠逐步的建立我當然知道要一步到位是不可能但是這個是我們近年碳排的未來一定要做的"},{"start":71.015,"end":71.255,"text":"主委可以嗎?可以"},{"start":97.082,"end":117.417,"text":"因為呢,我們今天也會處理一個臨時提案,我有連署蔡其昌委員,共同來提案,我們就是認為說在這個綠色的一個採購,公共工程的綠色採購裡面,我們如何能夠由政府的力量來扶植,來大力的推進,這個是很重要的一件事,不是嗎?因為這是環環相扣的。"},{"start":119.159,"end":119.179,"text":"對,我們會來..."},{"start":136.935,"end":159.648,"text":"參與推動檢探這個我相信我們既然未來要做而且是國家的政策目標所以拜託主委這個520之後跟新任的主委一定要好好的銜接把這一項列入是重點我們公共工程委員會的業務好不好重點業務好不好拜託拜託那進度是不是給我書面報告一份好不好我希望知道說從3月到現在"},{"start":161.869,"end":167.3,"text":"第二、我要請教主委,等一下可能,欸,治安署今天有到對不對,台中捷運"},{"start":169.155,"end":173.576,"text":"臺中捷運這個吊塔掉落這個牽涉到這個工地的一個安全問題工地管理的問題那我們看到監察院的報告已經出來了監察院的報告他認為長期的代付跟終結原先的設計不良等等因素那終結原先的設計不良那個我們另外再討論但是起碼我們今天在講的是什麼工地上的職安的問題"},{"start":197.162,"end":215.882,"text":"那這職案不僅僅牽涉到工地現場的勞工朋友們,它也牽涉到外部的我們所有人民的一個安全的問題。從台中捷運這件事情是給我們一個非常生痛的教訓。那既然有了這麼慘痛的教訓,那我們怎麼去改進?"},{"start":216.903,"end":228.159,"text":"那監察院的報告給兩位做個參考跟你們兩位都有關係一個職安署對塔式的起重機的檢查跟控管不足那也沒有跟地方政府做聯繫那裡面還有我們對現場作業的勞工"},{"start":232.725,"end":255.017,"text":"沒有依SOP來操作,也沒有採取安全的作業方法,便宜行事。再來又講到職安署長年來消極,消極的職場減災宣導。那我們國內的營造業大小規模非常不一致,所以呢能量也不一致,能力也不一致,那所以長期對公安的輕忽"},{"start":256.117,"end":282.634,"text":"這也是原因之一啦那長期在國內的工地的營造業的這個公安就牽涉到你們兩個部會嘛一個勞動部的職安署跟當然地方在地方政府中央另外公共工程委員會這也必須要負責任啊因為我知道公共工程委員會他對於各公共或者是民間的各項的這個工程的一個工地裡面也有所謂的安全指引啊還有減災指引啊還有"},{"start":285.936,"end":310.628,"text":"我記得還有什麼緊急什麼避難啊什麼什麼的指引反正指引一堆我有去上網去看了一下那我們公共工程委員會都是頒布指引然後都寫一張公文比如說0403花蓮地震之後那你們也發了一紙公文要求從中央到地方各行政機關呢大家呢都要注意盤點這個公共工程跟公共建物的這個安全問題"},{"start":311.989,"end":325.902,"text":"我通常說公共工程委員會不是只有發公文或是頒布指引而已啦那如何去要求跟落實我覺得就透過剛剛很多委員都提到你們都有在稽查你們在稽查了之後呢除了開法"},{"start":327.003,"end":350.403,"text":"那還有什麼樣的措施那所以呢等一下請公共工程委員會吳主委回答那我也另外請職安署我們啊署長也告訴我們說那從終結事故之後職安署又看到了監察院的報告之後又對我們工地上的這個安全的管理還有勞工的職場安全的管理那又是如何吳主委要先回答嗎好"},{"start":351.707,"end":369.014,"text":"有關公共工程相關的安全等等當然公共工程委員會他不是執行機關他會要求各機關要來落實來執行但是我們公共工程委員會在要求各機關要來落實的時候我們又是如何知道各"},{"start":370.382,"end":386.641,"text":"相關的機關有沒有落實?你們掌握管控的工具是什麼?主委我們就透過他們的執行我們會管控他的一個現場作業的進度跟狀況那麼會要求他的主辦機關上級機關應該要落實去執行"},{"start":390.385,"end":406.131,"text":"那剛剛委員提到這一個案件的狀況除了這邊提到的這一個本身吊塔這個部分的安全不周延之外我們後來做了一個指引要求像這樣一個高空作業"},{"start":408.011,"end":434.436,"text":"所以在這件事故之前我們對下面的進空的這個指引是沒有的是到這個事故之後才有的這個指引其實本來就要做他沒有做那我們所以這個就是公共工程委員會我現在就是要求嘛既然"},{"start":435.316,"end":459.349,"text":"主委你這樣跟我講了我就覺得痛心你知道嗎如果本來就有這樣的指引為什麼沒有辦法落實那為什麼相關的單位沒有辦法去要求落實那所以你又發了一次公文來提醒各個行政機關說如果有調查這個工程有調查式的這個程序在進行的時候下面一定要淨空所以你又再發公文提醒各個行政單位"},{"start":461.847,"end":477.263,"text":"不是這樣本來他就應該要這樣做他沒有做我們今天是再度提醒所以你再度提醒阿有罰則嗎這個部分你沒有依照勞安的規定本來就要處罰的阿是嗎所以來阿署長請說"},{"start":479.349,"end":506.455,"text":"報告委員有關交委的部分有個管全責在採用這個案子,交委的部分等一下吳主委你聽喔,這個不是治安署他說下面的淨空是交委,交委又是誰管的交委是你可能跟我講說是他們地方的交通局那這個採取當然是地方政府的事情但是呢我覺得公共工程委員會在這件事情上面應該在強烈的要求要落實這個指引好,那來,署長不好意思"},{"start":507.384,"end":531.482,"text":"學委這個凍結的建造院的報告我們敘敘受教那我們第一時間針對全國的領域的工程總共是有109個工程我們做全面的檢查因為台大的部分去年底部分有全國242個工地我們做全部的檢查那有關事發案子的建造公司有44個工地全國我們做檢查那重點就是說是這個個案這個雖然不是職災但是對我們來講是很重大的衝擊"},{"start":534.223,"end":552.208,"text":"公共安全事故但相對影響所以我們這個個案持續不斷要求地方檢查機構這個落實度的展開橫向聯繫非常重要像我們的有些案子審查之後地方交通單位知不知道這個個案交回機會能不能跟上去也是統合的整理的需要做橫向的"},{"start":552.688,"end":570.947,"text":"來﹖"},{"start":571.147,"end":591.429,"text":"署長我是建議啦現場的這個工地的安全的指引當然公共工程委員會不斷的去要求我們職安署也要不斷的去要求我們現場執行勤務的工作人員你剛剛講的第一個他有沒有落實他的作業的一個SOP第二個他有沒有所謂的在職"},{"start":594.691,"end":613.756,"text":"三、如何確保在現場執行勤務的施工工作人員能夠把所有的安全措施做到到位。我覺得這個方方面面都需要我們跨部會跟地方政府大家一起合作好不好,而且可以思考一下如何去獎勵落實。"},{"start":615.39,"end":615.51,"text":"何欣純委員"}]}}}}