{"id":152046,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152046","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6f015fe8e6787db12207d85dd7a7657e0cbbe991ada1931c55be169921a0a7171936c39b81b8ab135ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"10:27:16 - 10:37:26","影片長度":"00:10:10","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部列席就「『偏遠地區學校教育發展條例』施行迄今之成效及檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查(一)委員柯志恩等18人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案」案。(二)委員魯明哲等24人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第十六條條文修正草案」案。(三)委員馬文君等17人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第十六條及第十九條條文修正草案」案。(四)委員盧縣一等20人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條、第十二條及第二十一條條文修正草案」案。\n(僅進行詢答)【4月29日及5月2日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-02","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-10"},"duration":610,"end_time":"2024-05-02T10:37:26+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-02T10:27:16+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":438,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（10時27分）謝謝主席。有請部長。"],["主席：請潘部長，謝謝。"],["潘部長文忠：委員好。"],["陳委員培瑜：部長好。部長，在討論偏鄉條例之前，我先跟你討論一下，最近鬧上新聞，已經在新竹地區造成非常多的討論，就是陽明交大跟群聯電子看起來好像要把竹北客家學院的校地大範圍開發，美其名是產學合作，可是看起來我們懷疑有獵地的可能，怎麼說呢？因為他們其實自己是缺地的，他們如果想要在竹北高鐵站附近找到合用的土地，可能就想到這件事情。這件事情目前之所以引起非常多社區跟大學教授的關注，是因為整個過程沒有公開透明，也沒有經過校園裡面的民主程序討論。","事實上，這不是交大第一次出現產學合作的爭議，在2021年交大的交映樓就曾經出現要被企業拿去抵債的新聞，我想部長應該有所記憶，當時立法院法制局也對這樣的狀況作出警示，甚至在法制局的文章裡面提到，這種假產學合作取得大學校地使用權利的作法，很有可能會造成學校資產被侵吞。目前我們看到網路上的連署，雖然我在同一天寫的是3,000份，可是到昨天晚上已經突破4,000份了，相關教授甚至超過200個，為什麼大家這麼在意這件事情？部長，你認為呢？整個學校對於人文精神跟空間的關係，還有高等教育對於所謂產業需求，想要促成學生跟產業端合作的時候，卻必須犧牲主體性，我想這是部長不認同也不允許的。可是我們到底要怎麼分辨這件事情是需要還是想要？這件事情到目前為止，相信部長應該也知道，目前你的態度或者是……請您回應，謝謝。"],["潘部長文忠：謝謝委員。關於陽明交大這個議題，我確實也得到相關資訊，媒體也有報導這個事情，我也有請高教司要更深入地去瞭解。目前為止，他們確實有這樣的產學合作計畫，但是我也認同委員剛才所提到的，不管哪一級學校，它的主體一定是要以提供教學、學生的受教為最優先，如果有做相關的決定，也必須要把這個同步考量，顯然目前在校內意見是相當分歧。校長……"],["陳委員培瑜：而且好像也沒有看到更細緻的討論，說實話是這樣。"],["潘部長文忠：校長也提到，他會持續在學校裡面溝通，如果最後學校沒有真的形成共識，他也不會往這個方向走；如果有，最後也要經過學校的校務會議，因為這是學校重大的一個決定。"],["陳委員培瑜：目前我們知道他要花15億蓋這個，然後40年地上權，我覺得這個事情影響深遠。"],["潘部長文忠：校長會審慎處理。"],["陳委員培瑜：看起來部長知道，高教司也有在關心。"],["潘部長文忠：有。"],["陳委員培瑜：我就積極地請教育部針對本案進行關切、掌握狀況，避免陽明交大校方跟財團聯手侵吞國立大學資產疑慮成真，我想這個事情大家都非常擔心。"],["潘部長文忠：部裡會持續來關注。"],["陳委員培瑜：甚至我建議是不是必要的時候，要訪談校園內的師生，聽聽他們的聲音？這個部分是不是也請高教司回應？有沒有機會一週裡面提出相關報告？"],["潘部長文忠：因為現在校長也清楚地表達，他會再進行校內的溝通，等於這個決定是不是要繼續往這個方式，目前是未確定的，但是我們會密切注意。"],["陳委員培瑜：我們也會跟你們保持溝通。"],["潘部長文忠：好。"],["陳委員培瑜：第二個、我覺得是整個通案來看，目前大學產學合作只要涉及土地、建物事項，教育部是不是應該規劃有關不得作為生產基地出租、抵押、變賣標的的相關指引？我說的是指引，不要讓高等教育後續還要發生類似的狀況，教育部還要再去個案解決。這個部分有沒有機會進行規劃？"],["潘部長文忠：我們是不是來研究一下？因為產學合作到目前已經推動一段時間……"],["陳委員培瑜：我相信一定有發生很多狀況，部長是知道的。"],["潘部長文忠：對，我想應該先蒐集，是不是教育部要訂出指引……"],["陳委員培瑜：沒問題，要先蒐集相關聲音跟意見……"],["潘部長文忠：我覺得先蒐集一下，因為……"],["陳委員培瑜：有機會在3個月內完成相關報告，甚至進行蒐集、規劃、啟動，好嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：我們就3個月，高教司先去蒐集、瞭解一下產學合作的過程……"],["陳委員培瑜：沒問題。好，我們就……"],["潘部長文忠：有沒有一些我們需要去提醒學校的。"],["陳委員培瑜：我們就等你們的報告，3個月內，謝謝。","再來談偏鄉教育的問題，高教司請回，謝謝。部長請留步。接下來有請國教署彭署長，謝謝。我要先感謝彭署長跟教育部長之前積極支持代理跟代課老師，可以用沒有課務的時間進行在職進修，關於這件事情，我們辦公室也一直跟國教署開會，我要先感謝國教署有這個正面的函文，給予地方縣市政府相關的宣導。可是我們要再次提醒國教署，在後續的相關宣導之外，是不是也要協助更多地方的老師，當他們要去爭取進修的時候，不要被縣市政府不當的阻擋？我想有這個政策的美意很好，可是相關的執行還要請國教署積極協助。","我們跟教育部要了相關資料，我們來看112年度公立學校學生人數低於50人的，目前全國總共有555間，占了六分之一，這個趨勢應該只會越來越多，學校數應該會越來越高，對嘛？部長，你已經點頭了。"],["潘部長文忠：目前從已出生孩子的數量來看就是這樣。"],["陳委員培瑜：沒錯！我們再來看這個統計，如果把50人以下的學校更細緻的分析，會發現50人以下的學校約莫有將近90%都是偏遠學校，如果再把非山非市放下去，超過95%。也就是如果把這些事情都考慮進去，我們再問另外一個問題，目前專任教師人數多於學生人數的學校數已經占了27間，把這些事情放進去看，我想跟部長討論，我們發現又是行政工作減量這件事情，在很多相關調查裡面，偏鄉的老師都在問，為什麼行政工作感覺起來沒有減量？當然感覺這件事情是非常個人主觀經驗的。事實上，在教育部的偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第十四條，有規範主管機關要簡化行政工作程序，可是到底為什麼現場的老師還是覺得工作量很大？剛剛已經有很多委員說了，我就不再贅述。","除了行政工作過量這件事情，第二個、我們發現大部分的偏鄉，因為人力不足的關係，常常必須要混齡教學或是混齡編班，我想部長是清楚的。可是一旦面臨混齡教學、混齡編班，再加上很多偏遠地區的社區文化跟孩子原生家庭的文化背景不足，老師不只要面對學校內學術科目學習的問題，還必須協助學生解決社區文化資源不足、家庭文化資源不足的問題，導致於產生在學術科目上學習能力的低落，我想部長一定非常清楚。也就是複雜的學校問題、學習問題，看起來還是必須回到社區跟家庭去解決，所以很多第一線老師告訴我們，其實有經驗的老師、教學經驗豐富的老師可能更適合到偏鄉去協助這些孩子，很多第一線校長也是這樣告訴我們的。有沒有機會站在考慮學生人數越來越少、偏鄉學校情況越來越嚴重情況下，還有我剛剛說的這些複雜的教學現場情況可不可以……目前教育部有十八個區域資源中心相關的運行方針，雖然你們有建議他們針對行政資源共享及行政工作減量必須要有改善方案，可是我們在今天的業務報告裡面也沒有看到這個部分，我們可不可以積極的建議教育部，如何協助區域資源中心進行行政工作減量的討論跟盤點，這個部分請部長先回應。"],["潘部長文忠：謝謝委員點出這個問題，在今天的報告當中我也特別提出來，同時我也跟彭署長進行討論，如果只是用一個名稱，可能不容易有實際上的效益……"],["陳委員培瑜：對，相關的措施大家非常期待。"],["潘部長文忠：我覺得有必要的，如果要到每個學校去增置行政人力，其實我覺得反過來應該是擴大區域資源中心的人力來協助，而且是用一個……比如這個區域中心建構了一個做法，然後其他學校就不用重複再做同樣的事情，我是舉這樣的例子，因為過去我們推幾個方案，其實這個模式真的能夠減少各個學校統統都要做，我們常常講……"],["陳委員培瑜：好，我想這個部分……"],["潘部長文忠：我想這個方式在新的學年度，剛才署長也特別提到，在7月30日之前會把這樣的一些規劃，甚至我覺得必須要增置給區域中心補強的人力，讓他們多做一點，為其他學校服務，我想這個比較有機會。"],["陳委員培瑜：沒問題，那我們就等國教署的規劃報告。"],["潘部長文忠：好。"],["陳委員培瑜：接下來第二個問題，偏遠地區學校久任機制這件事情，其實現在已經有相關的辦法跟基礎，我相信部長也很清楚，可是要如何鼓勵教師久任，並且積極招聘有多年教學經驗的老師願意投入偏鄉教育，部長，你覺得有沒有可能往這裡去規劃？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，針對久任本來就有一個機制……"],["陳委員培瑜：是，沒錯，有現有的機制。"],["潘部長文忠：另外有一個原來的配套，只是參與的人數如果還能夠再擴大，我們就是有點鼓勵，就是剛剛委員講的，很有辦學經驗的校長或老師，透過我們這個機制鼓勵他們能夠到偏鄉。"],["陳委員培瑜：可是我必須要說，現場第一線我們看見的就是偏鄉可能有這個法規可以讓他們聘用久年教學經驗的老師，可是我覺得現場的福利可能讓很多老師覺得是不夠的，所以我想這件事情還有很多配套需要教育部積極規劃，是不是就請教育部再跟我們積極討論這件事情，三個月內給我們相關的規劃跟討論報告，謝謝。"],["潘部長文忠：好，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝召委、謝謝部長、謝謝署長。"],["主席：謝謝各位。接下來請葉元之委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":378,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-10","speakers":["柯志恩","盧縣一","萬美玲","洪孟楷","葛如鈞","吳沛憶","林宜瑾","陳培瑜","葉元之","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","羅廷瑋","張雅琳","吳春城","林倩綺","徐富癸","何欣純","黃仁","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","鍾佳濱","范雲","邱志偉","黃珊珊","劉建國"],"page_start":311,"meetingDate":["2024-05-02"],"gazette_id":"1133901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133901_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請教育部列席就「『偏遠地區學校教育發展條例』施行迄今之成效及檢討」進行專題報\n告，並備質詢；二、審查(一)委員柯志恩等18人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條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三) 委員馬文君等17 人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第十六條及第十九條條文修正草\n案」案、(四)委員盧縣一等20人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條、第十二條及第二十一\n條條文修正草案」案（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"1133901_00005"}},"transcript":{"id":"152046","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152046","tool":"pyannote","id":"152046-pyannote"},"job_id":"HNvPxoAg3aXvUbpx","queued_at":"2024-05-31 13:39:07","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 13:39:07","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152046"},{"time":"2024-05-31 13:39:08","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6f015fe8e6787db12207d85dd7a7657e0cbbe991ada1931c0065a9431e9c0d5721596a229c91d56b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-05-31 13:39:27","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-05-31 13:39:29","msg":"running pyannote"},{"time":"2024-05-31 13:39:40","msg":"status: 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\"start\": 597.31, \"end\": 597.33, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 597.33, \"end\": 597.37, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"積\"}, {\"word\": \"極\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 597.37, \"end\": 597.39, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 597.39, \"end\": 597.41, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 597.41, \"end\": 597.43, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 597.43, \"end\": 597.45, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 597.45, \"end\": 597.47, \"score\": 0.009}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 597.47, \"end\": 597.61, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 597.61, \"end\": 597.67, \"score\": 0.376}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 597.67, \"end\": 597.69, \"score\": 0.593}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 597.69, \"end\": 597.77, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 597.77, \"end\": 597.81, \"score\": 0.215}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 597.81, \"end\": 597.83, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"積\"}, {\"word\": \"極\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 597.83, \"end\": 597.95, \"score\": 0.724}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 597.95, \"end\": 597.97, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 597.97, \"end\": 598.07, \"score\": 0.727}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 598.07, \"end\": 598.19, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 598.19, \"end\": 598.35, \"score\": 0.721}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 598.35, \"end\": 598.37, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 598.37, \"end\": 598.73, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 598.73, \"end\": 598.81, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 598.81, \"end\": 598.851, \"score\": 0.037}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 598.851, \"end\": 598.871, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 598.871, \"end\": 598.891, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 598.891, \"end\": 598.971, \"score\": 0.73}, {\"word\": \"O\", \"start\": 598.971, \"end\": 598.991, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"K\", \"start\": 598.991, \"end\": 599.011, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 599.011, \"end\": 599.091, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 599.091, \"end\": 599.131, \"score\": 0.363}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 599.131, \"end\": 599.151, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"昭\", \"start\": 599.151, \"end\": 599.171, \"score\": 0.068}, {\"word\": \"緯\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 599.171, \"end\": 599.311, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 599.311, \"end\": 599.351, \"score\": 0.355}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 599.351, \"end\": 599.371, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 599.371, \"end\": 599.511, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 599.511, \"end\": 599.531, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:11,741\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育部列席就擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員\n\n2\n00:00:32,205 --> 00:00:54,735\n美其名是產學合作可是看起來我們懷疑有劣地的可能怎麼說呢因為他們其實自己是缺地的那他們如果想要在竹北高鐵站附近找到合用的土地他們可能就想到這件事情那這件事情目前之所以引起非常多社區跟大學教授的關注是因為整個過程沒有公開透明也沒有經過校園裡面的民主程序去做討論來我們看下一個\n\n3\n00:00:56,756 --> 00:01:03,961\n事實上呢,這不是交大第一次出現產學合作的爭議。在2021年交大的交印樓曾經就出現要被企業拿去抵債的新聞。當時立法院的法治局也對這樣的狀況做出警示,甚至在法治局的文章裡面提到這種假產學合作去取得大學、校地使用權利的做法很有可能會造成學校資產被侵吞。\n\n4\n00:01:22,253 --> 00:01:35,898\n下一張那目前我們看到這個網路上的連署雖然我的投影片寫的是3000份可是到昨天晚上已經突破4000份了有相關教授甚至有超過200個為什麼大家這麼在意這件事情部長你認為呢整個學校對於人文精神跟空間的關係還有高等教育對於所謂產業需求想要造成學生跟產業端的合作的時候但卻必須犧牲主體性我想這是部長你也不認同不允許的\n\n5\n00:01:48,343 --> 00:02:00,612\n發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事項,是需要還是想要這件事情?這件事情到目前為止相信部長您應該也所知道。目前部長您的態度或者是,請您回應,謝謝。是,謝謝委員。這個姜明教大的這個議題,確實我也得到相關的資訊,媒體也有報導這個事情。我也有請高教師要更深入地去\n\n6\n00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:36,087\n理解到目前為止確實他們有這樣的一個產學合作的計畫但是我也跟委員報告我也認同委員剛才所提到的我們學校不管哪一級學校它的主體一定是要以提供教學學生的受教這應該是最優先那你如果有做相關的決定也必須要把這個同步去做考量那顯然在目前校內這個意見是還相當的分歧\n\n7\n00:02:40,148 --> 00:02:47,110\n教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第3會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第3會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期\n\n8\n00:03:00,774 --> 00:03:13,341\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會\n\n9\n00:03:30,391 --> 00:03:38,001\n教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第3會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第5會期教育部立法院第6會期教育部立法院第7會期教育部立法院第8會期教育部立法院第9會期教育部立法院第10會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期\n\n10\n00:03:47,833 --> 00:03:50,255\n教育部是否應該規劃有關不得作為生產基地出租抵押變賣的標的相關指引,而不要讓高等教育後續還要發生類似的狀況,那教育部還要再去個案解決,這個部分有沒有機會進行規劃?\n\n11\n00:04:08,863 --> 00:04:34,244\n我們是不是來研究一下因為產學合作到目前已經推動一段時間了是那我相信一定也有發生很多狀況部長你是知道的我想應該先收集是不是教育部要去訂出主意那好如果沒問題要先收集相關聲音跟意見我覺得先收集一下那有機會在三個月內完成相關報告跟甚至進行收集規劃啟動好不好我們就三個月高教室先去收集瞭解一下產學合作的過程有沒有一些我們需要去做提醒學校的\n\n12\n00:04:34,684 --> 00:04:43,931\n發展條例第18條文修正草案案。〈一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十\n\n13\n00:04:57,463 --> 00:04:58,184\n學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。\n\n14\n00:05:12,546 --> 00:05:22,211\n教育及文化委員會第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育\n\n15\n00:05:38,799 --> 00:05:56,381\n目前從已出生孩子的數量沒錯,如果我們來看這個統計的話我們來看下一個可是我們再把這50人以下學校做更細緻的分析我們會發現50人以下的學校約莫有將近90%都是偏遠學校如果再把非山非市放下去超過95%\n\n16\n00:05:58,183 --> 00:06:11,507\n發展條例第八條文修正草案案。也就是說如果把這些事情都考慮進去然後我們再問另外一個問題目前我們看專任教師人數多於學生人數的學校數已經佔了27間把這些事情放進去看我想跟部長討論下一個我們發現\n\n17\n00:06:13,308 --> 00:06:41,294\n又是行政工作減量這件事情在很多相關調查裡面偏鄉的老師都在問為什麼行政工作感覺起來沒有減量那當然感覺這件事情是非常個人主觀經驗的事實上在教育部的偏遠地區發展條例第14條有規範主管機關要簡化行政工作程序可是到底為什麼現場老師還是覺得工作量很大剛剛已經很多委員說我就不再贅述我們來看除了行政工作過量這件事情第二個\n\n18\n00:06:41,974 --> 00:07:00,960\n我們發現大部分的偏鄉因為人力不足的關係常常必須要混零教學或是混零編班我想部長您是清楚的可是一旦面臨混零教學混零編班這件事情再加上很多偏遠地區的社區文化跟孩子的原生家庭的文化背景是不足的\n\n19\n00:07:01,340 --> 00:07:05,182\n導致於產生在學術科目上學習能力的低落我想部長一定非常清楚也就是說複雜的學校問題學習問題看起來他必須還要回到社區跟家庭去解決所以我們發現\n\n20\n00:07:24,372 --> 00:07:40,724\n很多第一線老師告訴我們其實有經驗的老師豐富經驗教學的老師其實可能更適合到偏鄉去協助這些孩子很多第一線校長是這樣告訴我們的那我們來往下看有沒有機會站在考慮學生人數越來越少偏鄉學校情況越來越嚴重的情況下還有我剛剛說的這些複雜的教學現場情況可不可以目前教育部有18個\n\n21\n00:07:48,409 --> 00:08:07,195\n區域資源中心相關的運行方針雖然你們有建議他們要針對行政資源共享行政工作減量必須要改善方案可是我們目前在整個業務報告在今天業務報告裡面也沒有看到這個部分我們可不可以積極建議教育部如何協助區域資源中心進行行政工作減量的討論跟盤點\n\n22\n00:08:09,196 --> 00:08:24,059\n這個部分請部長先回應,謝謝。是,我想謝謝委員點出這個那在今天的報告我也特別提出來我也跟彭所長做這個討論如果只是用一個名稱可能不容易有實際上的效益對,那相關的措施我覺得大家非常期待那我覺得有必要的\n\n23\n00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:38,128\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會\n\n24\n00:08:51,095 --> 00:08:52,237\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4\n\n25\n00:09:06,957 --> 00:09:12,284\n教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。《偏遠地區學校久任機制》現在已經有相關的辦法跟基礎,可是要如何鼓勵教師久任並且積極招聘有多年教學經驗的老師願意投入偏鄉教育這件事情?\n\n26\n00:09:25,620 --> 00:09:28,865\n九任本來就有一個機制另外有一個原來的配套只是參與的人數如果還能夠再擴大我們就是有點鼓勵有經驗辦學的校長或老師透過我們這個機制能夠鼓勵能夠到\n\n27\n00:09:42,162 --> 00:09:59,531\n可是我必須要說現場第一線的我們看見就是偏鄉可能有這個法規可以讓他們聘用這個九年教學經驗的老師可是我覺得現場的福利可能讓很多老師覺得是不夠的所以我想這件事情還有很多的配套需要教育部積極的規劃是不是就請教育部再跟我們積極討論這件事情三個月內跟我們相關的規劃跟討論報告謝謝好OK好謝謝委員好謝謝昭緯謝謝那就先謝謝部長謝謝署長謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6840\t11741\t教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育部列席就擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員\n32205\t54735\t美其名是產學合作可是看起來我們懷疑有劣地的可能怎麼說呢因為他們其實自己是缺地的那他們如果想要在竹北高鐵站附近找到合用的土地他們可能就想到這件事情那這件事情目前之所以引起非常多社區跟大學教授的關注是因為整個過程沒有公開透明也沒有經過校園裡面的民主程序去做討論來我們看下一個\n56756\t63961\t事實上呢,這不是交大第一次出現產學合作的爭議。在2021年交大的交印樓曾經就出現要被企業拿去抵債的新聞。當時立法院的法治局也對這樣的狀況做出警示,甚至在法治局的文章裡面提到這種假產學合作去取得大學、校地使用權利的做法很有可能會造成學校資產被侵吞。\n82253\t95898\t下一張 那目前我們看到這個網路上的連署雖然我的投影片寫的是3000份可是到昨天晚上已經突破4000份了有相關教授甚至有超過200個為什麼大家這麼在意這件事情部長你認為呢整個學校對於人文精神跟空間的關係還有高等教育對於所謂產業需求想要造成學生跟產業端的合作的時候但卻必須犧牲主體性我想這是部長你也不認同不允許的\n108343\t120612\t發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事項,是需要還是想要這件事情?這件事情到目前為止相信部長您應該也所知道。目前部長您的態度或者是,請您回應,謝謝。是,謝謝委員。這個姜明教大的這個議題,確實我也得到相關的資訊,媒體也有報導這個事情。我也有請高教師要更深入地去\n131880\t156087\t理解到目前為止確實他們有這樣的一個產學合作的計畫但是我也跟委員報告我也認同委員剛才所提到的我們學校不管哪一級學校它的主體一定是要以提供教學學生的受教這應該是最優先那你如果有做相關的決定也必須要把這個同步去做考量那顯然在目前校內這個意見是還相當的分歧\n160148\t167110\t教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第3會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第3會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期\n180774\t193341\t教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會\n210391\t218001\t教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第3會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第5會期教育部立法院第6會期教育部立法院第7會期教育部立法院第8會期教育部立法院第9會期教育部立法院第10會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期\n227833\t230255\t教育部是否應該規劃有關不得作為生產基地出租抵押變賣的標的相關指引,而不要讓高等教育後續還要發生類似的狀況,那教育部還要再去個案解決,這個部分有沒有機會進行規劃?\n248863\t274244\t我們是不是來研究一下因為產學合作到目前已經推動一段時間了是 那我相信一定也有發生很多狀況部長你是知道的我想應該先收集是不是教育部要去訂出主意那好 如果沒問題要先收集相關聲音跟意見我覺得先收集一下那有機會在三個月內完成相關報告跟甚至進行收集規劃啟動好不好我們就三個月高教室先去收集瞭解一下產學合作的過程有沒有一些我們需要去做提醒學校的\n274684\t283931\t發展條例第18條文修正草案案。 〈一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十\n297463\t298184\t學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。\n312546\t322211\t教育及文化委員會第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育\n338799\t356381\t目前從已出生孩子的數量沒錯,如果我們來看這個統計的話我們來看下一個可是我們再把這50人以下學校做更細緻的分析我們會發現50人以下的學校約莫有將近90%都是偏遠學校如果再把非山非市放下去超過95%\n358183\t371507\t發展條例第八條文修正草案案。 也就是說如果把這些事情都考慮進去然後我們再問另外一個問題目前我們看專任教師人數多於學生人數的學校數已經佔了27間把這些事情放進去看我想跟部長討論下一個我們發現\n373308\t401294\t又是行政工作減量這件事情在很多相關調查裡面偏鄉的老師都在問為什麼行政工作感覺起來沒有減量那當然感覺這件事情是非常個人主觀經驗的事實上在教育部的偏遠地區發展條例第14條有規範主管機關要簡化行政工作程序可是到底為什麼現場老師還是覺得工作量很大剛剛已經很多委員說我就不再贅述我們來看除了行政工作過量這件事情第二個\n401974\t420960\t我們發現大部分的偏鄉因為人力不足的關係常常必須要混零教學或是混零編班我想部長您是清楚的可是一旦面臨混零教學混零編班這件事情再加上很多偏遠地區的社區文化跟孩子的原生家庭的文化背景是不足的\n421340\t425182\t導致於產生在學術科目上學習能力的低落我想部長一定非常清楚也就是說複雜的學校問題學習問題看起來他必須還要回到社區跟家庭去解決所以我們發現\n444372\t460724\t很多第一線老師告訴我們其實有經驗的老師豐富經驗教學的老師其實可能更適合到偏鄉去協助這些孩子很多第一線校長是這樣告訴我們的那我們來往下看有沒有機會站在考慮學生人數越來越少偏鄉學校情況越來越嚴重的情況下還有我剛剛說的這些複雜的教學現場情況可不可以目前教育部有18個\n468409\t487195\t區域資源中心相關的運行方針雖然你們有建議他們要針對行政資源共享行政工作減量必須要改善方案可是我們目前在整個業務報告在今天業務報告裡面也沒有看到這個部分我們可不可以積極建議教育部如何協助區域資源中心進行行政工作減量的討論跟盤點\n489196\t504059\t這個部分請部長先回應,謝謝。是,我想謝謝委員點出這個那在今天的報告我也特別提出來我也跟彭所長做這個討論如果只是用一個名稱可能不容易有實際上的效益對,那相關的措施我覺得大家非常期待那我覺得有必要的\n504960\t518128\t教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會\n531095\t532237\t教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4\n546957\t552284\t教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。 《偏遠地區學校久任機制》現在已經有相關的辦法跟基礎,可是要如何鼓勵教師久任並且積極招聘有多年教學經驗的老師願意投入偏鄉教育這件事情?\n565620\t568865\t九任本來就有一個機制另外有一個原來的配套只是參與的人數如果還能夠再擴大我們就是有點鼓勵有經驗辦學的校長或老師透過我們這個機制能夠鼓勵能夠到\n582162\t599531\t可是我必須要說現場第一線的我們看見就是偏鄉可能有這個法規可以讓他們聘用這個九年教學經驗的老師可是我覺得現場的福利可能讓很多老師覺得是不夠的所以我想這件事情還有很多的配套需要教育部積極的規劃是不是就請教育部再跟我們積極討論這件事情三個月內跟我們相關的規劃跟討論報告謝謝好OK好謝謝委員好謝謝昭緯謝謝那就先謝謝部長謝謝署長謝謝\n","txt":"教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育部列席就擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員\n美其名是產學合作可是看起來我們懷疑有劣地的可能怎麼說呢因為他們其實自己是缺地的那他們如果想要在竹北高鐵站附近找到合用的土地他們可能就想到這件事情那這件事情目前之所以引起非常多社區跟大學教授的關注是因為整個過程沒有公開透明也沒有經過校園裡面的民主程序去做討論來我們看下一個\n事實上呢,這不是交大第一次出現產學合作的爭議。在2021年交大的交印樓曾經就出現要被企業拿去抵債的新聞。當時立法院的法治局也對這樣的狀況做出警示,甚至在法治局的文章裡面提到這種假產學合作去取得大學、校地使用權利的做法很有可能會造成學校資產被侵吞。\n下一張 那目前我們看到這個網路上的連署雖然我的投影片寫的是3000份可是到昨天晚上已經突破4000份了有相關教授甚至有超過200個為什麼大家這麼在意這件事情部長你認為呢整個學校對於人文精神跟空間的關係還有高等教育對於所謂產業需求想要造成學生跟產業端的合作的時候但卻必須犧牲主體性我想這是部長你也不認同不允許的\n發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事項,是需要還是想要這件事情?這件事情到目前為止相信部長您應該也所知道。目前部長您的態度或者是,請您回應,謝謝。是,謝謝委員。這個姜明教大的這個議題,確實我也得到相關的資訊,媒體也有報導這個事情。我也有請高教師要更深入地去\n理解到目前為止確實他們有這樣的一個產學合作的計畫但是我也跟委員報告我也認同委員剛才所提到的我們學校不管哪一級學校它的主體一定是要以提供教學學生的受教這應該是最優先那你如果有做相關的決定也必須要把這個同步去做考量那顯然在目前校內這個意見是還相當的分歧\n教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第3會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第3會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會\n教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第3會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第5會期教育部立法院第6會期教育部立法院第7會期教育部立法院第8會期教育部立法院第9會期教育部立法院第10會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期\n教育部是否應該規劃有關不得作為生產基地出租抵押變賣的標的相關指引,而不要讓高等教育後續還要發生類似的狀況,那教育部還要再去個案解決,這個部分有沒有機會進行規劃?\n我們是不是來研究一下因為產學合作到目前已經推動一段時間了是 那我相信一定也有發生很多狀況部長你是知道的我想應該先收集是不是教育部要去訂出主意那好 如果沒問題要先收集相關聲音跟意見我覺得先收集一下那有機會在三個月內完成相關報告跟甚至進行收集規劃啟動好不好我們就三個月高教室先去收集瞭解一下產學合作的過程有沒有一些我們需要去做提醒學校的\n發展條例第18條文修正草案案。 〈一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十\n學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。\n教育及文化委員會第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育\n目前從已出生孩子的數量沒錯,如果我們來看這個統計的話我們來看下一個可是我們再把這50人以下學校做更細緻的分析我們會發現50人以下的學校約莫有將近90%都是偏遠學校如果再把非山非市放下去超過95%\n發展條例第八條文修正草案案。 也就是說如果把這些事情都考慮進去然後我們再問另外一個問題目前我們看專任教師人數多於學生人數的學校數已經佔了27間把這些事情放進去看我想跟部長討論下一個我們發現\n又是行政工作減量這件事情在很多相關調查裡面偏鄉的老師都在問為什麼行政工作感覺起來沒有減量那當然感覺這件事情是非常個人主觀經驗的事實上在教育部的偏遠地區發展條例第14條有規範主管機關要簡化行政工作程序可是到底為什麼現場老師還是覺得工作量很大剛剛已經很多委員說我就不再贅述我們來看除了行政工作過量這件事情第二個\n我們發現大部分的偏鄉因為人力不足的關係常常必須要混零教學或是混零編班我想部長您是清楚的可是一旦面臨混零教學混零編班這件事情再加上很多偏遠地區的社區文化跟孩子的原生家庭的文化背景是不足的\n導致於產生在學術科目上學習能力的低落我想部長一定非常清楚也就是說複雜的學校問題學習問題看起來他必須還要回到社區跟家庭去解決所以我們發現\n很多第一線老師告訴我們其實有經驗的老師豐富經驗教學的老師其實可能更適合到偏鄉去協助這些孩子很多第一線校長是這樣告訴我們的那我們來往下看有沒有機會站在考慮學生人數越來越少偏鄉學校情況越來越嚴重的情況下還有我剛剛說的這些複雜的教學現場情況可不可以目前教育部有18個\n區域資源中心相關的運行方針雖然你們有建議他們要針對行政資源共享行政工作減量必須要改善方案可是我們目前在整個業務報告在今天業務報告裡面也沒有看到這個部分我們可不可以積極建議教育部如何協助區域資源中心進行行政工作減量的討論跟盤點\n這個部分請部長先回應,謝謝。是,我想謝謝委員點出這個那在今天的報告我也特別提出來我也跟彭所長做這個討論如果只是用一個名稱可能不容易有實際上的效益對,那相關的措施我覺得大家非常期待那我覺得有必要的\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4\n教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。 《偏遠地區學校久任機制》現在已經有相關的辦法跟基礎,可是要如何鼓勵教師久任並且積極招聘有多年教學經驗的老師願意投入偏鄉教育這件事情?\n九任本來就有一個機制另外有一個原來的配套只是參與的人數如果還能夠再擴大我們就是有點鼓勵有經驗辦學的校長或老師透過我們這個機制能夠鼓勵能夠到\n可是我必須要說現場第一線的我們看見就是偏鄉可能有這個法規可以讓他們聘用這個九年教學經驗的老師可是我覺得現場的福利可能讓很多老師覺得是不夠的所以我想這件事情還有很多的配套需要教育部積極的規劃是不是就請教育部再跟我們積極討論這件事情三個月內跟我們相關的規劃跟討論報告謝謝好OK好謝謝委員好謝謝昭緯謝謝那就先謝謝部長謝謝署長謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.840 --> 00:11.741\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育部列席就擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員\n\n00:32.205 --> 00:54.735\n美其名是產學合作可是看起來我們懷疑有劣地的可能怎麼說呢因為他們其實自己是缺地的那他們如果想要在竹北高鐵站附近找到合用的土地他們可能就想到這件事情那這件事情目前之所以引起非常多社區跟大學教授的關注是因為整個過程沒有公開透明也沒有經過校園裡面的民主程序去做討論來我們看下一個\n\n00:56.756 --> 01:03.961\n事實上呢,這不是交大第一次出現產學合作的爭議。在2021年交大的交印樓曾經就出現要被企業拿去抵債的新聞。當時立法院的法治局也對這樣的狀況做出警示,甚至在法治局的文章裡面提到這種假產學合作去取得大學、校地使用權利的做法很有可能會造成學校資產被侵吞。\n\n01:22.253 --> 01:35.898\n下一張那目前我們看到這個網路上的連署雖然我的投影片寫的是3000份可是到昨天晚上已經突破4000份了有相關教授甚至有超過200個為什麼大家這麼在意這件事情部長你認為呢整個學校對於人文精神跟空間的關係還有高等教育對於所謂產業需求想要造成學生跟產業端的合作的時候但卻必須犧牲主體性我想這是部長你也不認同不允許的\n\n01:48.343 --> 02:00.612\n發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事項,是需要還是想要這件事情?這件事情到目前為止相信部長您應該也所知道。目前部長您的態度或者是,請您回應,謝謝。是,謝謝委員。這個姜明教大的這個議題,確實我也得到相關的資訊,媒體也有報導這個事情。我也有請高教師要更深入地去\n\n02:11.880 --> 02:36.087\n理解到目前為止確實他們有這樣的一個產學合作的計畫但是我也跟委員報告我也認同委員剛才所提到的我們學校不管哪一級學校它的主體一定是要以提供教學學生的受教這應該是最優先那你如果有做相關的決定也必須要把這個同步去做考量那顯然在目前校內這個意見是還相當的分歧\n\n02:40.148 --> 02:47.110\n教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第3會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第3會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期\n\n03:00.774 --> 03:13.341\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會\n\n03:30.391 --> 03:38.001\n教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第3會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第5會期教育部立法院第6會期教育部立法院第7會期教育部立法院第8會期教育部立法院第9會期教育部立法院第10會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期\n\n03:47.833 --> 03:50.255\n教育部是否應該規劃有關不得作為生產基地出租抵押變賣的標的相關指引,而不要讓高等教育後續還要發生類似的狀況,那教育部還要再去個案解決,這個部分有沒有機會進行規劃?\n\n04:08.863 --> 04:34.244\n我們是不是來研究一下因為產學合作到目前已經推動一段時間了是那我相信一定也有發生很多狀況部長你是知道的我想應該先收集是不是教育部要去訂出主意那好如果沒問題要先收集相關聲音跟意見我覺得先收集一下那有機會在三個月內完成相關報告跟甚至進行收集規劃啟動好不好我們就三個月高教室先去收集瞭解一下產學合作的過程有沒有一些我們需要去做提醒學校的\n\n04:34.684 --> 04:43.931\n發展條例第18條文修正草案案。〈一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十\n\n04:57.463 --> 04:58.184\n學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。\n\n05:12.546 --> 05:22.211\n教育及文化委員會第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育\n\n05:38.799 --> 05:56.381\n目前從已出生孩子的數量沒錯,如果我們來看這個統計的話我們來看下一個可是我們再把這50人以下學校做更細緻的分析我們會發現50人以下的學校約莫有將近90%都是偏遠學校如果再把非山非市放下去超過95%\n\n05:58.183 --> 06:11.507\n發展條例第八條文修正草案案。也就是說如果把這些事情都考慮進去然後我們再問另外一個問題目前我們看專任教師人數多於學生人數的學校數已經佔了27間把這些事情放進去看我想跟部長討論下一個我們發現\n\n06:13.308 --> 06:41.294\n又是行政工作減量這件事情在很多相關調查裡面偏鄉的老師都在問為什麼行政工作感覺起來沒有減量那當然感覺這件事情是非常個人主觀經驗的事實上在教育部的偏遠地區發展條例第14條有規範主管機關要簡化行政工作程序可是到底為什麼現場老師還是覺得工作量很大剛剛已經很多委員說我就不再贅述我們來看除了行政工作過量這件事情第二個\n\n06:41.974 --> 07:00.960\n我們發現大部分的偏鄉因為人力不足的關係常常必須要混零教學或是混零編班我想部長您是清楚的可是一旦面臨混零教學混零編班這件事情再加上很多偏遠地區的社區文化跟孩子的原生家庭的文化背景是不足的\n\n07:01.340 --> 07:05.182\n導致於產生在學術科目上學習能力的低落我想部長一定非常清楚也就是說複雜的學校問題學習問題看起來他必須還要回到社區跟家庭去解決所以我們發現\n\n07:24.372 --> 07:40.724\n很多第一線老師告訴我們其實有經驗的老師豐富經驗教學的老師其實可能更適合到偏鄉去協助這些孩子很多第一線校長是這樣告訴我們的那我們來往下看有沒有機會站在考慮學生人數越來越少偏鄉學校情況越來越嚴重的情況下還有我剛剛說的這些複雜的教學現場情況可不可以目前教育部有18個\n\n07:48.409 --> 08:07.195\n區域資源中心相關的運行方針雖然你們有建議他們要針對行政資源共享行政工作減量必須要改善方案可是我們目前在整個業務報告在今天業務報告裡面也沒有看到這個部分我們可不可以積極建議教育部如何協助區域資源中心進行行政工作減量的討論跟盤點\n\n08:09.196 --> 08:24.059\n這個部分請部長先回應,謝謝。是,我想謝謝委員點出這個那在今天的報告我也特別提出來我也跟彭所長做這個討論如果只是用一個名稱可能不容易有實際上的效益對,那相關的措施我覺得大家非常期待那我覺得有必要的\n\n08:24.960 --> 08:38.128\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會\n\n08:51.095 --> 08:52.237\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4\n\n09:06.957 --> 09:12.284\n教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。《偏遠地區學校久任機制》現在已經有相關的辦法跟基礎,可是要如何鼓勵教師久任並且積極招聘有多年教學經驗的老師願意投入偏鄉教育這件事情?\n\n09:25.620 --> 09:28.865\n九任本來就有一個機制另外有一個原來的配套只是參與的人數如果還能夠再擴大我們就是有點鼓勵有經驗辦學的校長或老師透過我們這個機制能夠鼓勵能夠到\n\n09:42.162 --> 09:59.531\n可是我必須要說現場第一線的我們看見就是偏鄉可能有這個法規可以讓他們聘用這個九年教學經驗的老師可是我覺得現場的福利可能讓很多老師覺得是不夠的所以我想這件事情還有很多的配套需要教育部積極的規劃是不是就請教育部再跟我們積極討論這件事情三個月內跟我們相關的規劃跟討論報告謝謝好OK好謝謝委員好謝謝昭緯謝謝那就先謝謝部長謝謝署長謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.84,"end":11.741,"text":"教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育部列席就擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員"},{"start":32.205,"end":54.735,"text":"美其名是產學合作可是看起來我們懷疑有劣地的可能怎麼說呢因為他們其實自己是缺地的那他們如果想要在竹北高鐵站附近找到合用的土地他們可能就想到這件事情那這件事情目前之所以引起非常多社區跟大學教授的關注是因為整個過程沒有公開透明也沒有經過校園裡面的民主程序去做討論來我們看下一個"},{"start":56.756,"end":63.961,"text":"事實上呢,這不是交大第一次出現產學合作的爭議。在2021年交大的交印樓曾經就出現要被企業拿去抵債的新聞。當時立法院的法治局也對這樣的狀況做出警示,甚至在法治局的文章裡面提到這種假產學合作去取得大學、校地使用權利的做法很有可能會造成學校資產被侵吞。"},{"start":82.253,"end":95.898,"text":"下一張 那目前我們看到這個網路上的連署雖然我的投影片寫的是3000份可是到昨天晚上已經突破4000份了有相關教授甚至有超過200個為什麼大家這麼在意這件事情部長你認為呢整個學校對於人文精神跟空間的關係還有高等教育對於所謂產業需求想要造成學生跟產業端的合作的時候但卻必須犧牲主體性我想這是部長你也不認同不允許的"},{"start":108.343,"end":120.612,"text":"發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事項,是需要還是想要這件事情?這件事情到目前為止相信部長您應該也所知道。目前部長您的態度或者是,請您回應,謝謝。是,謝謝委員。這個姜明教大的這個議題,確實我也得到相關的資訊,媒體也有報導這個事情。我也有請高教師要更深入地去"},{"start":131.88,"end":156.087,"text":"理解到目前為止確實他們有這樣的一個產學合作的計畫但是我也跟委員報告我也認同委員剛才所提到的我們學校不管哪一級學校它的主體一定是要以提供教學學生的受教這應該是最優先那你如果有做相關的決定也必須要把這個同步去做考量那顯然在目前校內這個意見是還相當的分歧"},{"start":160.148,"end":167.11,"text":"教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第3會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第3會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第4會期"},{"start":180.774,"end":193.341,"text":"教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會"},{"start":210.391,"end":218.001,"text":"教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第3會期教育部立法院第4會期教育部立法院第5會期教育部立法院第6會期教育部立法院第7會期教育部立法院第8會期教育部立法院第9會期教育部立法院第10會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第11會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期教育部立法院第12會期"},{"start":227.833,"end":230.255,"text":"教育部是否應該規劃有關不得作為生產基地出租抵押變賣的標的相關指引,而不要讓高等教育後續還要發生類似的狀況,那教育部還要再去個案解決,這個部分有沒有機會進行規劃?"},{"start":248.863,"end":274.244,"text":"我們是不是來研究一下因為產學合作到目前已經推動一段時間了是 那我相信一定也有發生很多狀況部長你是知道的我想應該先收集是不是教育部要去訂出主意那好 如果沒問題要先收集相關聲音跟意見我覺得先收集一下那有機會在三個月內完成相關報告跟甚至進行收集規劃啟動好不好我們就三個月高教室先去收集瞭解一下產學合作的過程有沒有一些我們需要去做提醒學校的"},{"start":274.684,"end":283.931,"text":"發展條例第18條文修正草案案。 〈一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十"},{"start":297.463,"end":298.184,"text":"學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":312.546,"end":322.211,"text":"教育及文化委員會第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育"},{"start":338.799,"end":356.381,"text":"目前從已出生孩子的數量沒錯,如果我們來看這個統計的話我們來看下一個可是我們再把這50人以下學校做更細緻的分析我們會發現50人以下的學校約莫有將近90%都是偏遠學校如果再把非山非市放下去超過95%"},{"start":358.183,"end":371.507,"text":"發展條例第八條文修正草案案。 也就是說如果把這些事情都考慮進去然後我們再問另外一個問題目前我們看專任教師人數多於學生人數的學校數已經佔了27間把這些事情放進去看我想跟部長討論下一個我們發現"},{"start":373.308,"end":401.294,"text":"又是行政工作減量這件事情在很多相關調查裡面偏鄉的老師都在問為什麼行政工作感覺起來沒有減量那當然感覺這件事情是非常個人主觀經驗的事實上在教育部的偏遠地區發展條例第14條有規範主管機關要簡化行政工作程序可是到底為什麼現場老師還是覺得工作量很大剛剛已經很多委員說我就不再贅述我們來看除了行政工作過量這件事情第二個"},{"start":401.974,"end":420.96,"text":"我們發現大部分的偏鄉因為人力不足的關係常常必須要混零教學或是混零編班我想部長您是清楚的可是一旦面臨混零教學混零編班這件事情再加上很多偏遠地區的社區文化跟孩子的原生家庭的文化背景是不足的"},{"start":421.34,"end":425.182,"text":"導致於產生在學術科目上學習能力的低落我想部長一定非常清楚也就是說複雜的學校問題學習問題看起來他必須還要回到社區跟家庭去解決所以我們發現"},{"start":444.372,"end":460.724,"text":"很多第一線老師告訴我們其實有經驗的老師豐富經驗教學的老師其實可能更適合到偏鄉去協助這些孩子很多第一線校長是這樣告訴我們的那我們來往下看有沒有機會站在考慮學生人數越來越少偏鄉學校情況越來越嚴重的情況下還有我剛剛說的這些複雜的教學現場情況可不可以目前教育部有18個"},{"start":468.409,"end":487.195,"text":"區域資源中心相關的運行方針雖然你們有建議他們要針對行政資源共享行政工作減量必須要改善方案可是我們目前在整個業務報告在今天業務報告裡面也沒有看到這個部分我們可不可以積極建議教育部如何協助區域資源中心進行行政工作減量的討論跟盤點"},{"start":489.196,"end":504.059,"text":"這個部分請部長先回應,謝謝。是,我想謝謝委員點出這個那在今天的報告我也特別提出來我也跟彭所長做這個討論如果只是用一個名稱可能不容易有實際上的效益對,那相關的措施我覺得大家非常期待那我覺得有必要的"},{"start":504.96,"end":518.128,"text":"教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會"},{"start":531.095,"end":532.237,"text":"教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4"},{"start":546.957,"end":552.284,"text":"教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。 《偏遠地區學校久任機制》現在已經有相關的辦法跟基礎,可是要如何鼓勵教師久任並且積極招聘有多年教學經驗的老師願意投入偏鄉教育這件事情?"},{"start":565.62,"end":568.865,"text":"九任本來就有一個機制另外有一個原來的配套只是參與的人數如果還能夠再擴大我們就是有點鼓勵有經驗辦學的校長或老師透過我們這個機制能夠鼓勵能夠到"},{"start":582.162,"end":599.531,"text":"可是我必須要說現場第一線的我們看見就是偏鄉可能有這個法規可以讓他們聘用這個九年教學經驗的老師可是我覺得現場的福利可能讓很多老師覺得是不夠的所以我想這件事情還有很多的配套需要教育部積極的規劃是不是就請教育部再跟我們積極討論這件事情三個月內跟我們相關的規劃跟討論報告謝謝好OK好謝謝委員好謝謝昭緯謝謝那就先謝謝部長謝謝署長謝謝"}]}}}}