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10:52:06","影片長度":"00:10:10","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告「外交部如何構建友善工作環境暨人員心理輔導具體做法」，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-02","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第17次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":17,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-17"},"duration":610,"end_time":"2024-05-02T10:52:06+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-02T10:41:56+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":386,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（10時41分）謝謝主席。主席，有請吳部長。"],["主席：請吳部長。"],["吳部長釗燮：委員好。"],["林委員楚茵：部長好。部長，我今天其實想要用短短的幾分鐘時間，我們好好來看一下有關於歐洲商會示警所謂藐視國會，到底透漏了什麼樣的情況。我想對比中國在2023年的反間諜法實施之後，當時美國其實也警告中國這樣子的新反間諜法會讓外國企業在中國執業的時候面臨必要的風險，那麼像這樣的警示一出來之後，當然我人不在中國，但是透過媒體報導，可以看得出來這幾年中國經濟下滑的情況是非常嚴重，當然跟疫情相關之外，也是讓投資卻步，我們都知道經濟的活水，投資資源是相當重要的，尤其是像中國這麼大的一個經濟體，外資都跑掉的時候，對他來講，他所造成的雪崩式的傷害高達82%，以臺灣這樣的經濟體，我們的量體更需要外資的協助。首先，我想要就教部長的是，4月29日歐洲商會發表這樣的一個評論，在事前你沒有得到這樣的訊息嗎？"],["吳部長釗燮：事前我並沒有，但是媒體報導出來的時候，的確我們覺得這個是一個必須值得重視的事情，畢竟我們臺灣的發展，除了我們自己的國防能力，或者是跟其他國家關係，我們臺灣的經濟是我們立國的一個非常重要的根本，如果歐洲商會因為這件事情而停止來我們臺灣投資的話，這對我們臺灣的衝擊會是很嚴重的。"],["林委員楚茵：好，我相信很多民眾可能會對美臺之間，包括美國在臺商會等等這些的組織可能會比較瞭解，但是歐洲商會的成員到底有哪些人，又是什麼樣的狀況？我相信部長最瞭解，那麼他們到底有哪些成員？這樣所謂的參考意見出去之後，他給的這些會員又是哪些人？那麼過去他們在臺灣有哪些投資，或是對於哪些投資動向？可不可以說明一下？"],["吳部長釗燮：如果對於我們臺灣的投資環境瞭解的話，大家應該可以知道，對臺灣投資最大的一個團體或者是國家就是歐洲，歐洲是我們臺灣最大的外資來源地，也因此歐洲商會就是所有來到臺灣投資的這些人，或者是跟臺灣有做貿易往來的這些人，很多大的企業，你說得出名字的，這些都是歐洲商會的會員，甚至有些跨域的，從其他的場域，因為他們覺得可以跟歐洲商會這邊來做生意等等的，所以歐洲商會在臺灣的影響力是非常的龐大。"],["林委員楚茵：言下之意就是如果我們要前進歐洲，或者是歐洲前進臺灣的窗口來講，歐洲商會非常的重要。"],["吳部長釗燮：沒有錯。"],["林委員楚茵：但是這樣的訊息一出來之後，我們看到的是其實歐洲商會在發布這樣的建議書之後，行政部門說需要虛心檢討，然後希望積極回應，但是在野黨就會認為這是不是後面又有誰在潑髒水或抹黑。我特別去找了一下，我也承認過去我其實都把歐洲商會的建議書，可能只是看了一下新聞標題，但是我特別去找了一下，過去從2021年、2022年到2023年，甚至2024年，它也都有發表相關的建議書，對於臺灣，它從2021年的關心臺灣推動創新，再來2022年是希望放寬商務邊境的限制，2023年它希望臺灣在再生能源國產化當中要找到平衡點，那麼今年它更是從臺灣的人才、跟國際的接軌，以及簽訂所謂跟歐盟之間、跟臺灣之間的雙邊貿易提出建言。所以我想要就教部長的是，像這樣一個歐洲商會所提出來的建言，過去一直以來都比較是屬於建設性的提議，或者是在諮商上面的提議，或者是給臺灣與歐洲接軌，不論是在貿易面或者是在政策面，但是很少見，出現像這樣類似的警訊，那什麼樣的狀況會讓它認為必須要發出警訊？"],["吳部長釗燮：我的印象裡面是沒有類似的這些建言，那不管是European chambers of commerce，或者是American chambers of commerce，他們所做的這些建議書不只是建議我們臺灣，甚至也會回頭過去建議美國政府、歐洲政府，在處理與臺灣的貿易議題、經濟投資議題的時候，應該要採取什麼更好的措施，所以這些對我們臺灣來講都是很重要，那他們針對藐視國會提出這些警訊的話，的確這個是我第一次看到，我也覺得我們應該加以重視。"],["林委員楚茵：因為對他們來講，他們每天所接觸到的情資、資訊一定都感受得到，這一屆的新國會當中，以現在的狀況底下的話，在野黨要提出，以人數上面做表決一定會通過，所以他們才會趕快的，因為我們都知道，投資的布局不是今天投下去，明天可以收回來，很多在規劃中的布局要改變也需要一點時間，所以這顯然它是在預示也許在下半年的時候，歐洲對於臺灣的這些投資會有所改變，如果是這樣的情況底下的話，部長有沒有積極的跟歐洲商會或是相關單位來做溝通及瞭解，那回饋又是什麼？"],["吳部長釗燮：這個部分因為並不是以我們外交部作為跟他們聯繫的最主要窗口，因為他們聯繫的主要窗口應該是跟經濟相關的，譬如像國發會或者是經濟部等等，我到目前為止是沒有接到相關的訊息，但是如果他們有這個關心的話，我們的行政部門，甚至是我們的國會應該加以討論。"],["林委員楚茵：好，因為像這樣子，歐盟的其他國家看到，尤其是駐臺的相關大使，或是代表或代表處等等，應該也會同樣讀到這一篇報導，那麼對他們來說，他們也會擔憂他們在臺投資的企業或企業主，因為這樣的法案通過之後，不只是針對臺灣的官員，連民間人士都可能因為不一樣的議題被找來國會，如果是這樣的時候，這樣的說明就非常的重要，因為我們都知道，他們如果預期現在的國會就是會過關的時候，他們對於臺灣相關的投資可能會就此打住。所以我也建議外交部，雖然這個主要的主責單位一定是國發會或是相關的經濟部門，但是外交部必須要給予一定的協助。"],["吳部長釗燮：我想我們協助是沒有問題，但是會有藐視國會罪的起源並不是我們的行政部門，而是國會。"],["林委員楚茵：我知道。"],["吳部長釗燮：所以如果國會這邊沒有加以重視、沒有加以檢討的話，無論我們行政部門多努力，這些都是枉然，甚至會跟他們提出一個錯誤的印象，就是這個事情是不會通過，也不會影響到他們，萬一如果通過了，影響到他們的時候，其實我們行政部門的credibility都會有問題。"],["林委員楚茵：好，所以也只能讓這個……我要怎麼說呢？有時候站在這裡，做這樣的質詢是一種無奈啦！但是我也很希望透過這樣的澄清，至少我們希望在立法院當中，一切是依法論法，但是法規的通過真的有時候影響的不是只有現在、此時此刻我們所聊天的，可能它會影響到的是臺灣接下來的願景。","接下來我要談的是有關於CPTPP的部分，當然現在整體來說，CPTPP輪值國已經變成是加拿大，那麼目前我們對於爭取CPTPP當中有哪些具體的動作或者是作法呢？"],["吳部長釗燮：有關於CPTPP的事情，我們國內的努力最主要是在我們的OTN，外交部作為協助的機構，因為我們有外館，那我們也定期做內部檢討，看看外館如何加強跟當地國的互動或者是溝通，我們也鼓勵當地國跟我們做這些非正式……因為我們還沒有加進去，所以是必須要做非正式的諮商，那已經有很多國家開始跟我們做非正式的諮商，而且也都非常順利，大部分的國家對於我們準備的程度也都感到非常滿意，因為我們追尋的標準是CPTPP的高標準，跟有些國家是不一樣的，所以在這種情形之下，我相信我們臺灣是會受到很多國家的支持，那這些比較重要的CPTPP會員國對我們臺灣的申請，都表達一個非常正面的態度，那我們會持續的努力，畢竟有一些比較小的國家或者是跟中國比較親近的國家，這個是我們必須要加倍努力的地方。"],["林委員楚茵：好，本席希望在這邊提出這個訊息，是因為我認為在所有不確定的訊息底下，外交部在做一些努力的過程當中，如果有好的、新的進度，也希望能夠讓國人知道。"],["吳部長釗燮：好，一定。謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝。接下來請羅智強委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":104,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-17","speakers":["馬文君","羅美玲","陳永康","王定宇","徐巧芯","洪申翰","沈伯洋","陳冠廷","林楚茵","羅智強","黃仁","林憶君"],"page_start":73,"meetingDate":["2024-05-02"],"gazette_id":"1133801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告「外交部如何構建友善工作環境暨人員心理輔導具體做法」，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1133801_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"152051","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152051","tool":"pyannote","id":"152051-pyannote"},"job_id":"Xi1ktXNQVxfDg4zY","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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{\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 539.291, \"end\": 539.751, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"溝\"}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 539.751, \"end\": 540.412, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 540.412, \"end\": 540.592, \"score\": 0.705}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 540.592, \"end\": 540.732, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 540.732, \"end\": 540.932, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 540.932, \"end\": 541.133, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"鼓\", \"start\": 541.133, \"end\": 541.253, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"勵\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 541.253, \"end\": 541.273, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"吳\"}, {\"word\": \"釗\"}, {\"word\": \"燮\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 542.694, \"end\": 542.714, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"李\", \"start\": 562.307, \"end\": 562.367, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"卓\", \"start\": 562.367, \"end\": 562.487, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 562.487, \"end\": 562.507, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 580.47, \"end\": 580.89, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 580.89, \"end\": 580.97, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 580.97, \"end\": 581.23, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 581.23, \"end\": 581.25, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,430 --> 00:00:01,191\n主席有請吳部長請吳部長委員好\n\n2\n00:00:14,107 --> 00:00:36,121\n部長好部長我今天其實想要用這個短短的幾分鐘時間我們好好來看一下就是有關於歐洲商會市井的這個所謂藐視國會到底洩漏了一個什麼樣的情況那個我想對於對比中國在2023年的反間諜法實施之後當時美國其實也警告就是中國的這樣的新反間諜法會讓外國企業在中國職業的時候面臨必要的風險\n\n3\n00:00:41,124 --> 00:00:57,924\n那麼像這樣的警示一出來之後當然我仍不在中國但是透過媒體報導可以看得出來這幾年中國的經濟下滑的情況是非常嚴重當然跟疫情相關之外也是讓投資卻步那我們都知道這個經濟的活水投資資源是相當重要的\n\n4\n00:01:01,007 --> 00:01:25,514\n那尤其是像中國這麼大的一個經濟體外資都跑掉的時候對他來講他所造成的雪崩式的傷害高達82%那以台灣這樣的經濟體我們更需要我們的量體更需要就是外資的協助喔首先我想要救教部長的是4月29號歐洲商會發表的這樣的一個評論在事前你們有得到這樣的訊息嗎\n\n5\n00:01:27,085 --> 00:01:27,785\n我相信很多的民眾\n\n6\n00:01:55,998 --> 00:02:24,594\n他可能會對美台之間包括美國在台商會等等這些的組織他可能會比較了解但是歐洲商會的成員到底有哪些人又是什麼樣的狀況我相信部長你最了解那麼他們到底有哪些成員那麼這樣的所謂參考意見出去之後他給的這些會員又是哪些人那麼過去他們在台灣有哪些投資或是對於哪些投資動向可不可以說明一下\n\n7\n00:02:26,095 --> 00:02:43,004\n如果對我們台灣的投資環境了解的話大家應該可以知道就是說對台灣投資最大的一個團體或者是國家就是歐洲歐洲是我們台灣的最大的外資來源地\n\n8\n00:02:43,644 --> 00:03:07,420\n那也因此歐洲商會就是所有來到台灣投資的這些人或者是說跟台灣有做貿易往來的這些人很多大的這些企業那這些都是歐洲商會的這個會員甚至是有些跨域的從其他的那個場域因為他們覺得說可以跟歐洲商會這邊來做生意等等的所以歐洲商會在台灣的那個影響力是非常的龐大\n\n9\n00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:27,470\n現下之意就是如果我們要前進歐洲或是歐洲前進台灣的窗口來講的話歐洲商會非常的重要沒有錯但是這樣的訊息一出來之後我們看到的是其實歐洲商會在發佈這樣的建議書之後我們看到行政部門就會說需要虛心啊檢討然後希望積極的做回應但是在野黨就會認為說\n\n10\n00:03:28,650 --> 00:03:40,756\n這是不是後面又有誰在潑髒水或抹黑我特別去找了一下我也承認在過去我其實都把歐洲商會的這個建議書可能就只是看了一下新聞標題但是我特別去找了一下過去從2021年2022年到2023年甚至於2024年他也都有發表相關的建議書對於台灣他從2021年的關心台灣的\n\n11\n00:03:53,521 --> 00:04:11,510\n推動所謂創新再來2022年是希望放寬商務邊境的限制2023年他希望台灣在再生能源國產化當中要找到平衡點那麼今年呢他更是從台灣的人才以及跟國際的接軌以及簽訂所謂跟歐盟之間跟台灣之間的雙邊貿易來提出建言所以\n\n12\n00:04:16,852 --> 00:04:42,533\n我想要救教部長的是說像這樣的一個歐洲商會他所提出來的建言過去一直以來都是屬於比較是建設性的提議或者是在這個資商上面的提議或者是給台灣一個跟歐洲做接軌不論是在貿易面或者是在政策面但是很少見是不是出現像這樣的類似警訊式\n\n13\n00:04:43,314 --> 00:05:05,066\n那什麼樣的狀況會讓他認為必須要發出警訊式我的印象裡面是沒有這些類似的這些建言那不管是EuropeanChamberofCommerce或者是AmericanChamberofCommerce他們所做的這些建議書他們不只是建議我們台灣甚至是也會回頭過去建議美國的政府、歐洲的政府\n\n14\n00:05:05,746 --> 00:05:23,427\n在處理跟台灣的這個貿易議題經濟投資的這個議題的時候應該要採取什麼樣更好的這些措施所以這些對我們台灣來講都是很重要那他們針對那個藐視國會這件事情提出這些警訊的話那的確這個是我第一次看到那我也覺得說我們應該加以重視\n\n15\n00:05:24,107 --> 00:05:39,073\n因為對他們來講他們每天所接觸到的情資資訊一定都感受得到這一屆的新國會當中以現在的狀況底下的話在野黨要把它提出那麼以人數上面做表決是一定會通過\n\n16\n00:05:39,853 --> 00:05:53,521\n所以他們才會趕快的因為我們都知道投資的布局不是今天投下去明天可以收回來很多在規劃中的布局要改變也需要一點時間所以這顯然他是在預示也許在下半年的時候歐洲對於台灣的這些投資會有所改變那如果是這樣的情況底下的話部長有沒有積極的跟歐洲商會或是相關的單位來做溝通以及了解那回饋又是什麼\n\n17\n00:06:09,942 --> 00:06:30,440\n這個部分因為並不是以我們外交部作為跟他們聯繫的最主要的窗口因為他們的聯繫主要窗口應該是我們跟經濟相關的比如像我們國發會或者是經濟部等等的那我到目前為止是沒有接到相關的這些訊息但是如果說他們有這個關心的話我們的行政部門甚至是我們的國會應該加以討論\n\n18\n00:06:32,029 --> 00:06:44,316\n因為像這樣子就是歐盟的其他的國家在看到尤其是駐台的相關的大使或是代表或代表處等等應該也會同樣的讀到這一篇報導那麼對他們來說他們也會擔憂他們在台投資的企業或企業主因為這樣的一個法案通過之後不只是針對台灣的官員連民間人士都可能因為不一樣的議題\n\n19\n00:06:59,344 --> 00:07:22,740\n找來國會那如果是這樣的時候這樣的說明就非常的重要因為我們都知道他們如果預期現在國會就是會過關的時候他們對於台灣相關的投資可能會就此打住所以我也建議外交部雖然說這個主要的主責單位一定是在跟國發會或是相關的經濟部門但是外交部必須要給予一定的協助\n\n20\n00:07:24,405 --> 00:07:53,074\n我想我們協助是沒有問題但是會有這個藐視國會罪的起源並不是我們的行政部而是國會所以如果國會這邊沒有加以重視沒有加以檢討的話無論我們行政部門多努力那這些都是枉然甚至是會跟他們提出一個錯誤的一個印象就是說這個事情是不會通過也不會影響到他們那萬一如果通過了影響到他們的時候其實我們行政部門的那個Credibility都會有問題\n\n21\n00:07:53,894 --> 00:08:18,900\n好所以說也只能就是讓這個我要怎麼說呢有時候站在這裡對這樣做這樣的質詢是一種無奈啦但是我也很希望透過這樣的澄清能夠至少我們希望在立法院當中一切是依法論法但是法規的通過真的有的時候影響的不是只有現在\n\n22\n00:08:19,420 --> 00:08:20,280\n目前我們對於爭取CPTPP當中有哪些具體的動作或者是做法呢?\n\n23\n00:08:42,496 --> 00:09:01,273\n有關於CPTPP的事情我們國內的這個努力最主要是在我們的OTM那我們外交部這邊作為協助的機構因為我們有外管那我們也定期的做內部的這個檢討看看我們外管如何來加強跟當地國的這個互動或者是溝通那我們也去鼓勵這個當地國\n\n24\n00:09:02,694 --> 00:09:02,714\n吳釗燮報告\n\n25\n00:09:22,307 --> 00:09:22,507\n李卓人議員\n\n26\n00:09:40,470 --> 00:09:41,250\n好,一定,謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n430\t1191\t主席有請吳部長請吳部長委員好\n14107\t36121\t部長好部長我今天其實想要用這個短短的幾分鐘時間我們好好來看一下就是有關於歐洲商會市井的這個所謂藐視國會到底洩漏了一個什麼樣的情況那個我想對於對比中國在2023年的反間諜法實施之後當時美國其實也警告就是中國的這樣的新反間諜法會讓外國企業在中國職業的時候面臨必要的風險\n41124\t57924\t那麼像這樣的警示一出來之後當然我仍不在中國但是透過媒體報導可以看得出來這幾年中國的經濟下滑的情況是非常嚴重當然跟疫情相關之外也是讓投資卻步那我們都知道這個經濟的活水投資資源是相當重要的\n61007\t85514\t那尤其是像中國這麼大的一個經濟體外資都跑掉的時候對他來講他所造成的雪崩式的傷害高達82%那以台灣這樣的經濟體我們更需要我們的量體更需要就是外資的協助喔首先我想要救教部長的是4月29號歐洲商會發表的這樣的一個評論在事前你們有得到這樣的訊息嗎\n87085\t87785\t我相信很多的民眾\n115998\t144594\t他可能會對美台之間包括美國在台商會等等這些的組織他可能會比較了解但是歐洲商會的成員到底有哪些人又是什麼樣的狀況我相信部長你最了解那麼他們到底有哪些成員那麼這樣的所謂參考意見出去之後他給的這些會員又是哪些人那麼過去他們在台灣有哪些投資或是對於哪些投資動向可不可以說明一下\n146095\t163004\t如果對我們台灣的投資環境了解的話大家應該可以知道就是說對台灣投資最大的一個團體或者是國家就是歐洲歐洲是我們台灣的最大的外資來源地\n163644\t187420\t那也因此歐洲商會就是所有來到台灣投資的這些人或者是說跟台灣有做貿易往來的這些人很多大的這些企業那這些都是歐洲商會的這個會員甚至是有些跨域的從其他的那個場域因為他們覺得說可以跟歐洲商會這邊來做生意等等的所以歐洲商會在台灣的那個影響力是非常的龐大\n188280\t207470\t現下之意就是如果我們要前進歐洲或是歐洲前進台灣的窗口來講的話歐洲商會非常的重要沒有錯但是這樣的訊息一出來之後我們看到的是其實歐洲商會在發佈這樣的建議書之後我們看到行政部門就會說需要虛心啊檢討然後希望積極的做回應但是在野黨就會認為說\n208650\t220756\t這是不是後面又有誰在潑髒水或抹黑我特別去找了一下我也承認在過去我其實都把歐洲商會的這個建議書可能就只是看了一下新聞標題但是我特別去找了一下過去從2021年2022年到2023年甚至於2024年他也都有發表相關的建議書對於台灣他從2021年的關心台灣的\n233521\t251510\t推動所謂創新再來2022年是希望放寬商務邊境的限制2023年他希望台灣在再生能源國產化當中要找到平衡點那麼今年呢他更是從台灣的人才以及跟國際的接軌以及簽訂所謂跟歐盟之間跟台灣之間的雙邊貿易來提出建言所以\n256852\t282533\t我想要救教部長的是說像這樣的一個歐洲商會他所提出來的建言過去一直以來都是屬於比較是建設性的提議或者是在這個資商上面的提議或者是給台灣一個跟歐洲做接軌不論是在貿易面或者是在政策面但是很少見是不是出現像這樣的類似警訊式\n283314\t305066\t那什麼樣的狀況會讓他認為必須要發出警訊式我的印象裡面是沒有這些類似的這些建言那不管是European Chamber of Commerce或者是American Chamber of Commerce他們所做的這些建議書他們不只是建議我們台灣甚至是也會回頭過去建議美國的政府、歐洲的政府\n305746\t323427\t在處理跟台灣的這個貿易議題經濟投資的這個議題的時候應該要採取什麼樣更好的這些措施所以這些對我們台灣來講都是很重要那他們針對那個藐視國會這件事情提出這些警訊的話那的確這個是我第一次看到那我也覺得說我們應該加以重視\n324107\t339073\t因為對他們來講他們每天所接觸到的情資資訊一定都感受得到這一屆的新國會當中以現在的狀況底下的話在野黨要把它提出那麼以人數上面做表決是一定會通過\n339853\t353521\t所以他們才會趕快的因為我們都知道投資的布局不是今天投下去明天可以收回來很多在規劃中的布局要改變也需要一點時間所以這顯然他是在預示也許在下半年的時候歐洲對於台灣的這些投資會有所改變那如果是這樣的情況底下的話部長有沒有積極的跟歐洲商會或是相關的單位來做溝通以及了解那回饋又是什麼\n369942\t390440\t這個部分因為並不是以我們外交部作為跟他們聯繫的最主要的窗口因為他們的聯繫主要窗口應該是我們跟經濟相關的比如像我們國發會或者是經濟部等等的那我到目前為止是沒有接到相關的這些訊息但是如果說他們有這個關心的話我們的行政部門甚至是我們的國會應該加以討論\n392029\t404316\t因為像這樣子就是歐盟的其他的國家在看到尤其是駐台的相關的大使或是代表或代表處等等應該也會同樣的讀到這一篇報導那麼對他們來說他們也會擔憂他們在台投資的企業或企業主因為這樣的一個法案通過之後不只是針對台灣的官員連民間人士都可能因為不一樣的議題\n419344\t442740\t找來國會那如果是這樣的時候這樣的說明就非常的重要因為我們都知道他們如果預期現在國會就是會過關的時候他們對於台灣相關的投資可能會就此打住所以我也建議外交部雖然說這個主要的主責單位一定是在跟國發會或是相關的經濟部門但是外交部必須要給予一定的協助\n444405\t473074\t我想我們協助是沒有問題但是會有這個藐視國會罪的起源並不是我們的行政部而是國會所以如果國會這邊沒有加以重視沒有加以檢討的話無論我們行政部門多努力那這些都是枉然甚至是會跟他們提出一個錯誤的一個印象就是說這個事情是不會通過也不會影響到他們那萬一如果通過了影響到他們的時候其實我們行政部門的那個Credibility都會有問題\n473894\t498900\t好所以說也只能就是讓這個我要怎麼說呢有時候站在這裡對這樣做這樣的質詢是一種無奈啦但是我也很希望透過這樣的澄清能夠至少我們希望在立法院當中一切是依法論法但是法規的通過真的有的時候影響的不是只有現在\n499420\t500280\t目前我們對於爭取CPTPP當中有哪些具體的動作或者是做法呢?\n522496\t541273\t有關於CPTPP的事情我們國內的這個努力最主要是在我們的OTM那我們外交部這邊作為協助的機構因為我們有外管那我們也定期的做內部的這個檢討看看我們外管如何來加強跟當地國的這個互動或者是溝通那我們也去鼓勵這個當地國\n542694\t542714\t吳釗燮報告\n562307\t562507\t李卓人議員\n580470\t581250\t好,一定,謝謝委員\n","txt":"主席有請吳部長請吳部長委員好\n部長好部長我今天其實想要用這個短短的幾分鐘時間我們好好來看一下就是有關於歐洲商會市井的這個所謂藐視國會到底洩漏了一個什麼樣的情況那個我想對於對比中國在2023年的反間諜法實施之後當時美國其實也警告就是中國的這樣的新反間諜法會讓外國企業在中國職業的時候面臨必要的風險\n那麼像這樣的警示一出來之後當然我仍不在中國但是透過媒體報導可以看得出來這幾年中國的經濟下滑的情況是非常嚴重當然跟疫情相關之外也是讓投資卻步那我們都知道這個經濟的活水投資資源是相當重要的\n那尤其是像中國這麼大的一個經濟體外資都跑掉的時候對他來講他所造成的雪崩式的傷害高達82%那以台灣這樣的經濟體我們更需要我們的量體更需要就是外資的協助喔首先我想要救教部長的是4月29號歐洲商會發表的這樣的一個評論在事前你們有得到這樣的訊息嗎\n我相信很多的民眾\n他可能會對美台之間包括美國在台商會等等這些的組織他可能會比較了解但是歐洲商會的成員到底有哪些人又是什麼樣的狀況我相信部長你最了解那麼他們到底有哪些成員那麼這樣的所謂參考意見出去之後他給的這些會員又是哪些人那麼過去他們在台灣有哪些投資或是對於哪些投資動向可不可以說明一下\n如果對我們台灣的投資環境了解的話大家應該可以知道就是說對台灣投資最大的一個團體或者是國家就是歐洲歐洲是我們台灣的最大的外資來源地\n那也因此歐洲商會就是所有來到台灣投資的這些人或者是說跟台灣有做貿易往來的這些人很多大的這些企業那這些都是歐洲商會的這個會員甚至是有些跨域的從其他的那個場域因為他們覺得說可以跟歐洲商會這邊來做生意等等的所以歐洲商會在台灣的那個影響力是非常的龐大\n現下之意就是如果我們要前進歐洲或是歐洲前進台灣的窗口來講的話歐洲商會非常的重要沒有錯但是這樣的訊息一出來之後我們看到的是其實歐洲商會在發佈這樣的建議書之後我們看到行政部門就會說需要虛心啊檢討然後希望積極的做回應但是在野黨就會認為說\n這是不是後面又有誰在潑髒水或抹黑我特別去找了一下我也承認在過去我其實都把歐洲商會的這個建議書可能就只是看了一下新聞標題但是我特別去找了一下過去從2021年2022年到2023年甚至於2024年他也都有發表相關的建議書對於台灣他從2021年的關心台灣的\n推動所謂創新再來2022年是希望放寬商務邊境的限制2023年他希望台灣在再生能源國產化當中要找到平衡點那麼今年呢他更是從台灣的人才以及跟國際的接軌以及簽訂所謂跟歐盟之間跟台灣之間的雙邊貿易來提出建言所以\n我想要救教部長的是說像這樣的一個歐洲商會他所提出來的建言過去一直以來都是屬於比較是建設性的提議或者是在這個資商上面的提議或者是給台灣一個跟歐洲做接軌不論是在貿易面或者是在政策面但是很少見是不是出現像這樣的類似警訊式\n那什麼樣的狀況會讓他認為必須要發出警訊式我的印象裡面是沒有這些類似的這些建言那不管是European Chamber of Commerce或者是American Chamber of Commerce他們所做的這些建議書他們不只是建議我們台灣甚至是也會回頭過去建議美國的政府、歐洲的政府\n在處理跟台灣的這個貿易議題經濟投資的這個議題的時候應該要採取什麼樣更好的這些措施所以這些對我們台灣來講都是很重要那他們針對那個藐視國會這件事情提出這些警訊的話那的確這個是我第一次看到那我也覺得說我們應該加以重視\n因為對他們來講他們每天所接觸到的情資資訊一定都感受得到這一屆的新國會當中以現在的狀況底下的話在野黨要把它提出那麼以人數上面做表決是一定會通過\n所以他們才會趕快的因為我們都知道投資的布局不是今天投下去明天可以收回來很多在規劃中的布局要改變也需要一點時間所以這顯然他是在預示也許在下半年的時候歐洲對於台灣的這些投資會有所改變那如果是這樣的情況底下的話部長有沒有積極的跟歐洲商會或是相關的單位來做溝通以及了解那回饋又是什麼\n這個部分因為並不是以我們外交部作為跟他們聯繫的最主要的窗口因為他們的聯繫主要窗口應該是我們跟經濟相關的比如像我們國發會或者是經濟部等等的那我到目前為止是沒有接到相關的這些訊息但是如果說他們有這個關心的話我們的行政部門甚至是我們的國會應該加以討論\n因為像這樣子就是歐盟的其他的國家在看到尤其是駐台的相關的大使或是代表或代表處等等應該也會同樣的讀到這一篇報導那麼對他們來說他們也會擔憂他們在台投資的企業或企業主因為這樣的一個法案通過之後不只是針對台灣的官員連民間人士都可能因為不一樣的議題\n找來國會那如果是這樣的時候這樣的說明就非常的重要因為我們都知道他們如果預期現在國會就是會過關的時候他們對於台灣相關的投資可能會就此打住所以我也建議外交部雖然說這個主要的主責單位一定是在跟國發會或是相關的經濟部門但是外交部必須要給予一定的協助\n我想我們協助是沒有問題但是會有這個藐視國會罪的起源並不是我們的行政部而是國會所以如果國會這邊沒有加以重視沒有加以檢討的話無論我們行政部門多努力那這些都是枉然甚至是會跟他們提出一個錯誤的一個印象就是說這個事情是不會通過也不會影響到他們那萬一如果通過了影響到他們的時候其實我們行政部門的那個Credibility都會有問題\n好所以說也只能就是讓這個我要怎麼說呢有時候站在這裡對這樣做這樣的質詢是一種無奈啦但是我也很希望透過這樣的澄清能夠至少我們希望在立法院當中一切是依法論法但是法規的通過真的有的時候影響的不是只有現在\n目前我們對於爭取CPTPP當中有哪些具體的動作或者是做法呢?\n有關於CPTPP的事情我們國內的這個努力最主要是在我們的OTM那我們外交部這邊作為協助的機構因為我們有外管那我們也定期的做內部的這個檢討看看我們外管如何來加強跟當地國的這個互動或者是溝通那我們也去鼓勵這個當地國\n吳釗燮報告\n李卓人議員\n好,一定,謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.430 --> 00:01.191\n主席有請吳部長請吳部長委員好\n\n00:14.107 --> 00:36.121\n部長好部長我今天其實想要用這個短短的幾分鐘時間我們好好來看一下就是有關於歐洲商會市井的這個所謂藐視國會到底洩漏了一個什麼樣的情況那個我想對於對比中國在2023年的反間諜法實施之後當時美國其實也警告就是中國的這樣的新反間諜法會讓外國企業在中國職業的時候面臨必要的風險\n\n00:41.124 --> 00:57.924\n那麼像這樣的警示一出來之後當然我仍不在中國但是透過媒體報導可以看得出來這幾年中國的經濟下滑的情況是非常嚴重當然跟疫情相關之外也是讓投資卻步那我們都知道這個經濟的活水投資資源是相當重要的\n\n01:01.007 --> 01:25.514\n那尤其是像中國這麼大的一個經濟體外資都跑掉的時候對他來講他所造成的雪崩式的傷害高達82%那以台灣這樣的經濟體我們更需要我們的量體更需要就是外資的協助喔首先我想要救教部長的是4月29號歐洲商會發表的這樣的一個評論在事前你們有得到這樣的訊息嗎\n\n01:27.085 --> 01:27.785\n我相信很多的民眾\n\n01:55.998 --> 02:24.594\n他可能會對美台之間包括美國在台商會等等這些的組織他可能會比較了解但是歐洲商會的成員到底有哪些人又是什麼樣的狀況我相信部長你最了解那麼他們到底有哪些成員那麼這樣的所謂參考意見出去之後他給的這些會員又是哪些人那麼過去他們在台灣有哪些投資或是對於哪些投資動向可不可以說明一下\n\n02:26.095 --> 02:43.004\n如果對我們台灣的投資環境了解的話大家應該可以知道就是說對台灣投資最大的一個團體或者是國家就是歐洲歐洲是我們台灣的最大的外資來源地\n\n02:43.644 --> 03:07.420\n那也因此歐洲商會就是所有來到台灣投資的這些人或者是說跟台灣有做貿易往來的這些人很多大的這些企業那這些都是歐洲商會的這個會員甚至是有些跨域的從其他的那個場域因為他們覺得說可以跟歐洲商會這邊來做生意等等的所以歐洲商會在台灣的那個影響力是非常的龐大\n\n03:08.280 --> 03:27.470\n現下之意就是如果我們要前進歐洲或是歐洲前進台灣的窗口來講的話歐洲商會非常的重要沒有錯但是這樣的訊息一出來之後我們看到的是其實歐洲商會在發佈這樣的建議書之後我們看到行政部門就會說需要虛心啊檢討然後希望積極的做回應但是在野黨就會認為說\n\n03:28.650 --> 03:40.756\n這是不是後面又有誰在潑髒水或抹黑我特別去找了一下我也承認在過去我其實都把歐洲商會的這個建議書可能就只是看了一下新聞標題但是我特別去找了一下過去從2021年2022年到2023年甚至於2024年他也都有發表相關的建議書對於台灣他從2021年的關心台灣的\n\n03:53.521 --> 04:11.510\n推動所謂創新再來2022年是希望放寬商務邊境的限制2023年他希望台灣在再生能源國產化當中要找到平衡點那麼今年呢他更是從台灣的人才以及跟國際的接軌以及簽訂所謂跟歐盟之間跟台灣之間的雙邊貿易來提出建言所以\n\n04:16.852 --> 04:42.533\n我想要救教部長的是說像這樣的一個歐洲商會他所提出來的建言過去一直以來都是屬於比較是建設性的提議或者是在這個資商上面的提議或者是給台灣一個跟歐洲做接軌不論是在貿易面或者是在政策面但是很少見是不是出現像這樣的類似警訊式\n\n04:43.314 --> 05:05.066\n那什麼樣的狀況會讓他認為必須要發出警訊式我的印象裡面是沒有這些類似的這些建言那不管是EuropeanChamberofCommerce或者是AmericanChamberofCommerce他們所做的這些建議書他們不只是建議我們台灣甚至是也會回頭過去建議美國的政府、歐洲的政府\n\n05:05.746 --> 05:23.427\n在處理跟台灣的這個貿易議題經濟投資的這個議題的時候應該要採取什麼樣更好的這些措施所以這些對我們台灣來講都是很重要那他們針對那個藐視國會這件事情提出這些警訊的話那的確這個是我第一次看到那我也覺得說我們應該加以重視\n\n05:24.107 --> 05:39.073\n因為對他們來講他們每天所接觸到的情資資訊一定都感受得到這一屆的新國會當中以現在的狀況底下的話在野黨要把它提出那麼以人數上面做表決是一定會通過\n\n05:39.853 --> 05:53.521\n所以他們才會趕快的因為我們都知道投資的布局不是今天投下去明天可以收回來很多在規劃中的布局要改變也需要一點時間所以這顯然他是在預示也許在下半年的時候歐洲對於台灣的這些投資會有所改變那如果是這樣的情況底下的話部長有沒有積極的跟歐洲商會或是相關的單位來做溝通以及了解那回饋又是什麼\n\n06:09.942 --> 06:30.440\n這個部分因為並不是以我們外交部作為跟他們聯繫的最主要的窗口因為他們的聯繫主要窗口應該是我們跟經濟相關的比如像我們國發會或者是經濟部等等的那我到目前為止是沒有接到相關的這些訊息但是如果說他們有這個關心的話我們的行政部門甚至是我們的國會應該加以討論\n\n06:32.029 --> 06:44.316\n因為像這樣子就是歐盟的其他的國家在看到尤其是駐台的相關的大使或是代表或代表處等等應該也會同樣的讀到這一篇報導那麼對他們來說他們也會擔憂他們在台投資的企業或企業主因為這樣的一個法案通過之後不只是針對台灣的官員連民間人士都可能因為不一樣的議題\n\n06:59.344 --> 07:22.740\n找來國會那如果是這樣的時候這樣的說明就非常的重要因為我們都知道他們如果預期現在國會就是會過關的時候他們對於台灣相關的投資可能會就此打住所以我也建議外交部雖然說這個主要的主責單位一定是在跟國發會或是相關的經濟部門但是外交部必須要給予一定的協助\n\n07:24.405 --> 07:53.074\n我想我們協助是沒有問題但是會有這個藐視國會罪的起源並不是我們的行政部而是國會所以如果國會這邊沒有加以重視沒有加以檢討的話無論我們行政部門多努力那這些都是枉然甚至是會跟他們提出一個錯誤的一個印象就是說這個事情是不會通過也不會影響到他們那萬一如果通過了影響到他們的時候其實我們行政部門的那個Credibility都會有問題\n\n07:53.894 --> 08:18.900\n好所以說也只能就是讓這個我要怎麼說呢有時候站在這裡對這樣做這樣的質詢是一種無奈啦但是我也很希望透過這樣的澄清能夠至少我們希望在立法院當中一切是依法論法但是法規的通過真的有的時候影響的不是只有現在\n\n08:19.420 --> 08:20.280\n目前我們對於爭取CPTPP當中有哪些具體的動作或者是做法呢?\n\n08:42.496 --> 09:01.273\n有關於CPTPP的事情我們國內的這個努力最主要是在我們的OTM那我們外交部這邊作為協助的機構因為我們有外管那我們也定期的做內部的這個檢討看看我們外管如何來加強跟當地國的這個互動或者是溝通那我們也去鼓勵這個當地國\n\n09:02.694 --> 09:02.714\n吳釗燮報告\n\n09:22.307 --> 09:22.507\n李卓人議員\n\n09:40.470 --> 09:41.250\n好,一定,謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.43,"end":1.191,"text":"主席有請吳部長請吳部長委員好"},{"start":14.107,"end":36.121,"text":"部長好部長我今天其實想要用這個短短的幾分鐘時間我們好好來看一下就是有關於歐洲商會市井的這個所謂藐視國會到底洩漏了一個什麼樣的情況那個我想對於對比中國在2023年的反間諜法實施之後當時美國其實也警告就是中國的這樣的新反間諜法會讓外國企業在中國職業的時候面臨必要的風險"},{"start":41.124,"end":57.924,"text":"那麼像這樣的警示一出來之後當然我仍不在中國但是透過媒體報導可以看得出來這幾年中國的經濟下滑的情況是非常嚴重當然跟疫情相關之外也是讓投資卻步那我們都知道這個經濟的活水投資資源是相當重要的"},{"start":61.007,"end":85.514,"text":"那尤其是像中國這麼大的一個經濟體外資都跑掉的時候對他來講他所造成的雪崩式的傷害高達82%那以台灣這樣的經濟體我們更需要我們的量體更需要就是外資的協助喔首先我想要救教部長的是4月29號歐洲商會發表的這樣的一個評論在事前你們有得到這樣的訊息嗎"},{"start":87.085,"end":87.785,"text":"我相信很多的民眾"},{"start":115.998,"end":144.594,"text":"他可能會對美台之間包括美國在台商會等等這些的組織他可能會比較了解但是歐洲商會的成員到底有哪些人又是什麼樣的狀況我相信部長你最了解那麼他們到底有哪些成員那麼這樣的所謂參考意見出去之後他給的這些會員又是哪些人那麼過去他們在台灣有哪些投資或是對於哪些投資動向可不可以說明一下"},{"start":146.095,"end":163.004,"text":"如果對我們台灣的投資環境了解的話大家應該可以知道就是說對台灣投資最大的一個團體或者是國家就是歐洲歐洲是我們台灣的最大的外資來源地"},{"start":163.644,"end":187.42,"text":"那也因此歐洲商會就是所有來到台灣投資的這些人或者是說跟台灣有做貿易往來的這些人很多大的這些企業那這些都是歐洲商會的這個會員甚至是有些跨域的從其他的那個場域因為他們覺得說可以跟歐洲商會這邊來做生意等等的所以歐洲商會在台灣的那個影響力是非常的龐大"},{"start":188.28,"end":207.47,"text":"現下之意就是如果我們要前進歐洲或是歐洲前進台灣的窗口來講的話歐洲商會非常的重要沒有錯但是這樣的訊息一出來之後我們看到的是其實歐洲商會在發佈這樣的建議書之後我們看到行政部門就會說需要虛心啊檢討然後希望積極的做回應但是在野黨就會認為說"},{"start":208.65,"end":220.756,"text":"這是不是後面又有誰在潑髒水或抹黑我特別去找了一下我也承認在過去我其實都把歐洲商會的這個建議書可能就只是看了一下新聞標題但是我特別去找了一下過去從2021年2022年到2023年甚至於2024年他也都有發表相關的建議書對於台灣他從2021年的關心台灣的"},{"start":233.521,"end":251.51,"text":"推動所謂創新再來2022年是希望放寬商務邊境的限制2023年他希望台灣在再生能源國產化當中要找到平衡點那麼今年呢他更是從台灣的人才以及跟國際的接軌以及簽訂所謂跟歐盟之間跟台灣之間的雙邊貿易來提出建言所以"},{"start":256.852,"end":282.533,"text":"我想要救教部長的是說像這樣的一個歐洲商會他所提出來的建言過去一直以來都是屬於比較是建設性的提議或者是在這個資商上面的提議或者是給台灣一個跟歐洲做接軌不論是在貿易面或者是在政策面但是很少見是不是出現像這樣的類似警訊式"},{"start":283.314,"end":305.066,"text":"那什麼樣的狀況會讓他認為必須要發出警訊式我的印象裡面是沒有這些類似的這些建言那不管是European Chamber of Commerce或者是American Chamber of Commerce他們所做的這些建議書他們不只是建議我們台灣甚至是也會回頭過去建議美國的政府、歐洲的政府"},{"start":305.746,"end":323.427,"text":"在處理跟台灣的這個貿易議題經濟投資的這個議題的時候應該要採取什麼樣更好的這些措施所以這些對我們台灣來講都是很重要那他們針對那個藐視國會這件事情提出這些警訊的話那的確這個是我第一次看到那我也覺得說我們應該加以重視"},{"start":324.107,"end":339.073,"text":"因為對他們來講他們每天所接觸到的情資資訊一定都感受得到這一屆的新國會當中以現在的狀況底下的話在野黨要把它提出那麼以人數上面做表決是一定會通過"},{"start":339.853,"end":353.521,"text":"所以他們才會趕快的因為我們都知道投資的布局不是今天投下去明天可以收回來很多在規劃中的布局要改變也需要一點時間所以這顯然他是在預示也許在下半年的時候歐洲對於台灣的這些投資會有所改變那如果是這樣的情況底下的話部長有沒有積極的跟歐洲商會或是相關的單位來做溝通以及了解那回饋又是什麼"},{"start":369.942,"end":390.44,"text":"這個部分因為並不是以我們外交部作為跟他們聯繫的最主要的窗口因為他們的聯繫主要窗口應該是我們跟經濟相關的比如像我們國發會或者是經濟部等等的那我到目前為止是沒有接到相關的這些訊息但是如果說他們有這個關心的話我們的行政部門甚至是我們的國會應該加以討論"},{"start":392.029,"end":404.316,"text":"因為像這樣子就是歐盟的其他的國家在看到尤其是駐台的相關的大使或是代表或代表處等等應該也會同樣的讀到這一篇報導那麼對他們來說他們也會擔憂他們在台投資的企業或企業主因為這樣的一個法案通過之後不只是針對台灣的官員連民間人士都可能因為不一樣的議題"},{"start":419.344,"end":442.74,"text":"找來國會那如果是這樣的時候這樣的說明就非常的重要因為我們都知道他們如果預期現在國會就是會過關的時候他們對於台灣相關的投資可能會就此打住所以我也建議外交部雖然說這個主要的主責單位一定是在跟國發會或是相關的經濟部門但是外交部必須要給予一定的協助"},{"start":444.405,"end":473.074,"text":"我想我們協助是沒有問題但是會有這個藐視國會罪的起源並不是我們的行政部而是國會所以如果國會這邊沒有加以重視沒有加以檢討的話無論我們行政部門多努力那這些都是枉然甚至是會跟他們提出一個錯誤的一個印象就是說這個事情是不會通過也不會影響到他們那萬一如果通過了影響到他們的時候其實我們行政部門的那個Credibility都會有問題"},{"start":473.894,"end":498.9,"text":"好所以說也只能就是讓這個我要怎麼說呢有時候站在這裡對這樣做這樣的質詢是一種無奈啦但是我也很希望透過這樣的澄清能夠至少我們希望在立法院當中一切是依法論法但是法規的通過真的有的時候影響的不是只有現在"},{"start":499.42,"end":500.28,"text":"目前我們對於爭取CPTPP當中有哪些具體的動作或者是做法呢?"},{"start":522.496,"end":541.273,"text":"有關於CPTPP的事情我們國內的這個努力最主要是在我們的OTM那我們外交部這邊作為協助的機構因為我們有外管那我們也定期的做內部的這個檢討看看我們外管如何來加強跟當地國的這個互動或者是溝通那我們也去鼓勵這個當地國"},{"start":542.694,"end":542.714,"text":"吳釗燮報告"},{"start":562.307,"end":562.507,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":580.47,"end":581.25,"text":"好,一定,謝謝委員"}]}}}}