{"id":152055,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152055","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6f015fe8e6787db19592d4ff91cf45570cbbe991ada1931c55be169921a0a7176fbd5d4b87b3fb0a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭昱晴","委員發言時間":"10:48:33 - 11:00:38","影片長度":"00:12:05","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部列席就「『偏遠地區學校教育發展條例』施行迄今之成效及檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查(一)委員柯志恩等18人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案」案。(二)委員魯明哲等24人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第十六條條文修正草案」案。(三)委員馬文君等17人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第十六條及第十九條條文修正草案」案。(四)委員盧縣一等20人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條、第十二條及第二十一條條文修正草案」案。\n(僅進行詢答)【4月29日及5月2日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-02","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-10"},"duration":725,"end_time":"2024-05-02T11:00:38+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-02T10:48:33+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":567,"blocks":[["郭委員昱晴：（10時48分）謝謝主席。有請部長。"],["主席：我們請潘部長，謝謝。"],["潘部長文忠：委員好。"],["郭委員昱晴：質詢了好幾次，終於碰到部長了。剛剛其實也有很多人都提到師生比的問題，當然我們知道在特殊教育班級以及整個所有人員進用的辦法裡，其實在4月15號有一個新的預告，也特別提到分散式資源班跟巡迴輔導班有關師生比的比例，在幼兒園的部分其實是1比15，再來小學的部分是1比10，到了國中的時候是1比8，但是我比較有疑問的是在幼兒園的部分，我們不是已經讓準公共化的師生比來到1比12，這個部分是不是還會再精進呢？"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告，早上因為有幾位委員也在關心，我再跟委員補充說明一下，有關目前資源班的方式，在學前幼兒園、國小、國中還有高中雖然都叫資源班，但是他參與的方式不一樣，學前這一部分其實是特教老師進班協助班裡面有特教生的模式，國小、國中則是把學生抽離出來，一定要對應課程來做教學的方式，而學前的那部分不是這樣，上課的還是這位老師，還是原來幼兒園的老師在進行，依照教保大綱……"],["郭委員昱晴：因為他是巡迴嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：他在教，然後這一位協助的資源班老師是協助裡面的幼生，可能在生活照顧這些方面，作法跟國小、國中不太一樣，所以當時……"],["郭委員昱晴：但是我想要提到的是，既然是在偏鄉，其實巡迴輔導班的方式，因為對身心障礙者的孩子來講，大部分並不是單一的狀況，他可能是不分區的狀況，我所謂不分區的狀況是指他可能有聽障或者是身障或者是學習遲緩，所以師生比的部分是不是應該要更合理，而且要更健全的往下降？","我們回到高中的部分，你看到高中的部分突然又變成1比15，其實我們都知道在高中生的時候，他們可能碰到所謂的情緒障礙，在學校，這樣子的狀況跟衝突可能會更多，他們需要更多的協助，為什麼到這個地方他的師生比反而變這麼高呢？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，高中的部分他也不是上課啦！他不是上他的課程，而是以他特殊生的需求，也就是特需的部分去協助，學生還是在原來的普通班裡面，特教的老師是去做這方面的協助……"],["郭委員昱晴：目前我們做這方面協助的特教老師，師生比還是一樣低嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：不是，委員，這兩個概念不太一樣，為什麼像學前公幼我們把他拉到1比12，因為那是這個老師帶一個完整的班，這個概念跟特教的老師進到……我講的是學前，進到這個班去幫助特殊教育的孩子的狀況，所以他不是用成班的概念。"],["郭委員昱晴：今天因為時間的關係，我們快速進入下一題。剛剛部長也特別回答了林宜瑾委員的部分，就是要朝擴大師培的方向前進，這是剛剛部長您有特別講的，要擴大師培……"],["潘部長文忠：有必要再討論這個案子，因為目前我們再擴增以後，所增加的人數目前還是不足，所以我們用5年的時間，這個也請師資、教師同步……"],["郭委員昱晴：要如何擴大師培……"],["潘部長文忠：一定要，不然就跟不上來。"],["郭委員昱晴：對，因為你看到我們從110年報名的人數到最後合格的人數只有6位，111年是不成班的，再來，112年所有合格的人數只有3位以這樣教學的方式來開課，目前為止，我們所知道的只有國立臺南大學有國小師資的類科，只有這麼1班，而且他開課的時間選在所謂的寒暑假，大家都知道，我相信部長應該也知道，尤其是在暑假的時候，其實6月中之後，沒有師資訓練以及沒有教師證的人其實都在等三招，他不見得會去上實體的課程，這個部分到底是我們開課的時間有問題、地點有問題還是授課的內容有問題，導致我們師培的進度是這麼的落後？"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告，因為代理老師是我們認為偏鄉真的沒有辦法有那麼多專任老師缺額的輔助作法，最近這幾年比如111、112年，我們強烈要求縣市不能一直保留大量的缺額，所以總共2個學年度國中小開出將近一萬、九千多位教師的缺額，這裡面也有很多會進到偏鄉，進到偏鄉以後他就是專任老師，不再是有職缺沒有老師，因此，我們在代理老師這一方面是希望有意願在這個區域的學校服務，所以在這一個條例裡面有用了一個專聘教師，我們希望如果有心繼續留在偏鄉服務的老師，透過……"],["郭委員昱晴：所以怎麼樣能夠吸更多想要進入偏鄉服務的這些師資，其實這是很重要的一個問題，因為時間的關係，我們來看一下正式老師跟代理老師還有代課老師，其實他們完全處在誘因不足的狀況之下，我們來看一下加給的部分，加給部分我抓最高是6,180元，這個部分是最高，這個是怎麼樣的一個條件？部長您知道嗎？他的服務地點距離公車站要35公里以上，35公里是什麼概念？從這邊到林口，公車站喔！光公車站喔！他才有6,180元的加給，看一下正式老師的部分，他光是6年固定加給的部分，到最後只多了3,396元，這是正式老師；代理老師的部分，它的差額就是從頭到尾沒有變，它的差額依舊在這個地方；再來代課老師就更辛苦了，代課老師是完全沒有偏遠的加給，這個部分你要怎麼樣吸引人家真的進入到偏鄉去服務呢？"],["潘部長文忠：我剛才有跟委員報告，為什麼我們怎麼樣都是會以專任教師，也就是完全符合……這個對偏鄉孩子的受教權益，應該是一個最主要的人力上的目標啦！不管這一次的條例……"],["郭委員昱晴：這個目標要什麼時候才能達到？"],["潘部長文忠：我剛才為什麼說111年跟112年我們請縣市釋出缺額，以前有時候一個偏遠學校保留到百分之二十到三十的缺額，那不是開玩笑，那是它不願意開缺出來聘專任老師，這兩年的努力已經補充，這個才是正辦啦！對於代理老師我們很感謝，但是代理老師……"],["郭委員昱晴：他們一樣辛苦。"],["潘部長文忠：我要跟委員報告，因為我們都有掌握整個師培量，如果回到委員的上一個議題，特教老師以目前我們要往師生比的這個部分，未來的5年要增加2,500位特教老師的缺額……"],["郭委員昱晴：5年？我們現在平均一年……"],["潘部長文忠：就是按照剛才跟委員報告的那個比例啦！那個師生比。"],["郭委員昱晴：是，那是我們的目標嘛！"],["潘部長文忠：不是，那個就是必要的配置。"],["郭委員昱晴：對，我懂，但是問題是現在達到的比例呢？"],["潘部長文忠：但是我要跟委員報告是一般的缺額，目前我們有在掌握了，因為這幾年大量都是有進任到專任老師……"],["郭委員昱晴：有沒有掌握誘因？"],["潘部長文忠：目前的缺額已經只剩一千多位，如果說大量的培養老師取證，結果又告訴老師：「抱歉，我們沒有缺額運用……」"],["郭委員昱晴：所以剛剛我說的……"],["潘部長文忠：所以教育部必須要綜整去考慮到師資的供需啦！"],["郭委員昱晴：那我剛剛說的這些誘因，光是差額的部分，加給是6,180元，這個部分是不是真的可以再改進一下？可以嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，如果說有一些……"],["郭委員昱晴：35公里耶！你想想看35公里是從這邊到……"],["潘部長文忠：支援老師這方面的一些激勵措施，我們會再滾動的來修正。"],["郭委員昱晴：而且這個誘因幾乎是看得到、吃不到，看得到、拿不到耶！6,180元，其實這個加給是要公車站牌離服務的地方35公里，從這裡到林口是完全沒有公車站牌的，我才能夠拿到最高的加給耶！"],["潘部長文忠：就是鼓勵老師在偏鄉服務的一些措施，本來就是這個條例裡面重要的，原來的這個基礎……"],["郭委員昱晴：這個一定要加進來。"],["潘部長文忠：如果需要再擴充來做，但是我剛才跟委員報告的是代理跟專任目前整體的趨勢，教育部必須要這樣子說，如果又培養過多，又是過去幾年留下來的問題，我們所謂的流浪老師等等的，又是另外一個社會問題啦！"],["郭委員昱晴：好，我們繼續精進。"],["潘部長文忠：好。"],["郭委員昱晴：最後再給我一分鐘的時間，因為我終於碰到部長您了。剴剴案，這次是我質詢的第6次，兒福聯盟的主管機關教育部，在這個地方今天部長好不容易來了，之前我質詢了好幾次都是次長來，次長也覺得他們完全沒有自我檢討的決心，但是到目前為止，上次告訴本席4月19號他們會召開會議，包含專家跟學者來召開會議，看剴剴案這個部分兒福聯盟有沒有失職的地方，到目前為止，今天是幾月了？5月了，這個案子要拖多久？對兒福聯盟懲處的部分，我們要拖多久？請教部長。"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告，因為這個是……"],["郭委員昱晴：就財團法人法的部分……"],["潘部長文忠：我們兩個部會……兒福聯盟在業務的歸屬跟主管機關確實是我認為一定要做調整的啦！教育部是名義上的主管機關，但它所從事的服務工作都不是原來教育部……"],["郭委員昱晴：不是都不是，是百分之六、七十不是，是收出養的業務。"],["潘部長文忠：這次收出養的問題，衛福部為什麼在這上面會去做，現在我們兩個部會在處理的就是這個問題。"],["郭委員昱晴：好，但是教育部目前還是它的主管機關，是吧？"],["潘部長文忠：是。"],["郭委員昱晴：那我們是不是可以針對財團法人法，財團法人法第三十條，它有沒有違反本法或者是它的捐助章程？一個剴剴案死了一個孩子，被虐死了一個孩子，有沒有違反它的捐助章程，有沒有？教育部只要告訴我這個問題就好，有嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告，因為以文教……"],["郭委員昱晴：你認為有嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：針對文教基金會，會依照相關它所提的事務去做監督。"],["郭委員昱晴：它的運作跟它設立的目的，其實是完全不符的……"],["潘部長文忠：它當然有重大缺失，只是現在我要跟委員報告的是……"],["郭委員昱晴：再來，在4月我們已經終止了它收出養的業務，沒有錯對不對？但是它在4月20號另外一個新開的粉專居然還在提收出養服務，這個部分麻煩你們跨部會跟衛福部好好的來檢討這個兒福聯盟，可以嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：OK！OK！目前是這樣子處理，現在最主要是希望……"],["郭委員昱晴：處理到哪裡了？我要質詢第幾次。"],["潘部長文忠：我要講的是這個業務它所做的服務項目不應該以文教基金，應該用……"],["郭委員昱晴：但你是主管機關，我們必須要跨部會來做。"],["潘部長文忠：我知道，但是要跟委員報告，部會一定要釐清，管它的是文教基金會管理辦法，它們出的大事是收出養問題。"],["郭委員昱晴：部長！錯了，我剛剛講的是依財團法人法，它是教育部的責任，是我們教育部要來管的，不是只有收出養喔。好嗎？可以嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：是。"],["郭委員昱晴：好，謝謝！謝謝主席！"],["潘部長文忠：謝謝！"],["主席：現在休息5分鐘。謝謝！","休息（11時）","繼續開會（11時5分）"],["主席：現在繼續進行詢答，請陳秀寳委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":378,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-10","speakers":["柯志恩","盧縣一","萬美玲","洪孟楷","葛如鈞","吳沛憶","林宜瑾","陳培瑜","葉元之","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","羅廷瑋","張雅琳","吳春城","林倩綺","徐富癸","何欣純","黃仁","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","鍾佳濱","范雲","邱志偉","黃珊珊","劉建國"],"page_start":311,"meetingDate":["2024-05-02"],"gazette_id":"1133901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133901_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請教育部列席就「『偏遠地區學校教育發展條例』施行迄今之成效及檢討」進行專題報\n告，並備質詢；二、審查(一)委員柯志恩等18人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修\n正草案」案、(二)委員魯明哲等24人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第十六條條文修正草案」\n案、( 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00:00:45,619\n諮詢了好幾次終於碰到部長了剛剛其實也有很多人都提到這個師生比的一個問題當然我們知道其實在這個特殊教育班級以及整個所有人員禁用的辦法其實在4月15號有一個新的一個預告那也特別提到了在分散式的資源班跟這個巡迴的這個輔導班的部分這個師生比的比例那在幼兒園的部分其實是1比15\n\n3\n00:00:47,028 --> 00:01:01,072\n教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會\n\n4\n00:01:06,654 --> 00:01:29,044\n我跟委員報告,早上因為有幾位委員關心,我再跟委員補充說明一下,因為有關目前資源班的方式,在學前幼兒園、國小、國中還有高中,其實它雖然都叫資源班,但是它的參與的方式不一樣,那學前的這部分,它其實是特教的老師去進班,\n\n5\n00:01:30,204 --> 00:01:54,760\n協助在這個班裡面有特教生的模式跟國小國中他是把它抽離出來一定要對應課程來做教學的方式而那個學前的那部分他不是上課還是這位老師還是原來幼兒園的老師在進行依照教保大綱他在教然後這位協助的支援班的老師是協助裡面的幼生可能在生活照顧這些做法他跟國小國中不太一樣\n\n6\n00:01:57,642 --> 00:02:15,419\n但是我想要提到的是就是既然是在偏鄉其實巡迴的這樣子的一個輔導班的一個方式其實大部分對身心障礙者的孩子來講他不是單一的一個狀況他可能是不分區的一個狀況所謂的不分區的狀況他可能有聽障或者他聲障或者是他學習遲緩\n\n7\n00:02:19,002 --> 00:02:47,641\n那這個部分其實我們是這樣所以師生比的部分是不是應該更合理而且是更健全的應該是往下降我們回到這個高中的部分你看到高中的部分突然又變成1比15去了那其實我們都知道在高中生的時候他們可能碰到所謂的情緒的障礙這樣子的一個狀況跟衝突跟在學校其實這樣子的問題可能會更多他們需要更多的一個協助為什麼到這個地方他的師生比反而變這麼高呢\n\n8\n00:02:49,042 --> 00:03:03,295\n高中的部分他也不是上課啦他不是上在他的課程是他以他特殊生的需求也就是特需的部分去協助學生還是在原來的普通班裡面那特教的老師是去做這方面的協助\n\n9\n00:03:03,635 --> 00:03:07,417\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期\n\n10\n00:03:30,727 --> 00:03:46,072\n因為今天時間的關係其實我們快速進入下一題其實大家剛剛其實部長也特別回答了我們這個林議警委員的這個部分就是說要擴大失陪的方向前進這是剛剛您有特別講的在討論這個案子是必要因為目前我們在擴增以後這個所增加的人數是目前所不足的所以我們用五年的時間這個也請施政教師同步一定要不然這跟不上來\n\n11\n00:03:57,475 --> 00:04:00,540\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會\n\n12\n00:04:12,657 --> 00:04:34,861\n做這樣子的一個教學的一個方式來做開課那目前為止我們所知道的只有國立台南大學有國小的師資的類科只有這麼一班而且他開課的時間選在所謂的寒暑假那大家都知道其實我相信部長應該也知道尤其是在暑假的時候其實六月中之後有很多所謂的這個師資的訓練沒有所謂沒有師資訓練以及沒有教師證的人其實都在等三招\n\n13\n00:04:40,582 --> 00:04:45,791\n他不見得會去上實體的課程這個部分到底是我們開課的時間有問題、地點有問題還是授課的內容有問題導致最後其實我們的失陪的進度是這麼的落後\n\n14\n00:04:53,099 --> 00:04:59,583\n我跟委員報告因為就是說代理老師這個其實是我們認為偏鄉他真的沒有辦法有那麼多專任老師的缺額的輔助做法那麼在這比如最近這111、112我們強烈的要求縣市不能一直保留大量的缺額所以總共兩個學年度開出國中小將近一萬九千多位的教師的缺額那這裡面也有很多就會進到偏鄉\n\n15\n00:05:22,455 --> 00:05:36,071\n教育部列席就進到偏鄉以後他就是專任老師不再是有職缺沒有老師那麼因此我們在代理老師的這方面是希望有意願在這個區域服務的學校所以在這個條例裡面有用一個專聘老師我們就希望說如果有心繼續留在偏鄉服務的老師\n\n16\n00:05:41,758 --> 00:05:51,183\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第14會期教育及文化委員會第14會\n\n17\n00:06:05,010 --> 00:06:29,756\n這個部分是最高這個是怎麼樣的一個條件部長您知道嗎這個是要距離他的服務地點要距離公車站要35公里以上35公里是什麼概念從這邊到林口公車站喔光公車站喔他才有6180元的一個加級看一下正式老師的部分他光是6年的固定的加級的部分到最後只多了3396元\n\n18\n00:06:31,576 --> 00:06:49,637\n好,這是老師。代理老師的部分他的差額就是從頭到尾沒有變。他的差額依舊在這個地方。再來,帶課老師那就更辛苦了。帶課老師是完全沒有偏遠的加級的部分。那這個部分你要怎麼樣吸引人家真的進入到偏鄉去服務呢?\n\n19\n00:06:50,661 --> 00:07:01,927\n我剛才有跟委員報告為什麼我們怎麼樣都是會以專任教師也就是完全符合這個是對偏鄉孩子的授教權益應該是一個最主要的人力上的目標不管這一次的條例這個目標要什麼時候才能達到\n\n20\n00:07:06,509 --> 00:07:30,857\n這幾年我剛才為什麼說111跟112我們要請縣市釋出缺額以前他們保留到有時候一個學校偏遠學校保留20%到30%的缺額那不是開玩笑那是他不願意開缺出來聘專任老師那這兩年的努力已經補充這樣這個才是正辦啦那對於代理老師我們很感謝但是代理老師我要跟委員報告\n\n21\n00:07:33,578 --> 00:07:37,499\n特教老師以目前我們要往生思比的這個部分未來的五年要增加2500位特教老師的缺額五年就是按照剛才跟委員報告的那個比例啦那個私生比\n\n22\n00:07:51,744 --> 00:07:53,406\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會\n\n23\n00:08:08,886 --> 00:08:17,851\n教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第1會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期\n\n24\n00:08:25,536 --> 00:08:35,745\n委員如果說有一些要35公里耶你想想看35公里支援老師的這方面的一些激勵措施我們會再滾動的來修正而且這個誘因幾乎是看得到我吃不到耶看得到我拿不到耶6180元其實這個加緊是要公車站牌離我服務的地方要35公里從這裡到林口要有公車站牌是完全沒有的我才能夠拿到最高的加緊耶\n\n25\n00:08:53,439 --> 00:08:54,259\n教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部立法院第12屆第13屆\n\n26\n00:09:10,964 --> 00:09:13,185\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期\n\n27\n00:09:26,332 --> 00:09:40,881\n這次是我質詢的第六次,針對兒福聯盟我們的主管機關,兒福聯盟主管機關教育部在這個地方,今天部長好不容易來了之前我質詢了好幾次是次長來,次長也覺得他們完全沒有\n\n28\n00:09:41,721 --> 00:10:04,215\n自我檢討的一個決心。但是到目前為止上次跟我告訴本席4月19號他們會召開會議包含專家跟學者來召開會議來看凱開案這個部分兒福聯盟有沒有失職的地方到目前為止今天是幾月了五月了這個案子要拖多久對兒福聯盟的懲處的部分我們要拖多久\n\n29\n00:10:05,809 --> 00:10:28,585\n請教部長我跟委員報告因為這個是財團法人法的部分這我們兩個部會我有說俄府聯盟在業務的歸屬跟主管機關確實是一個我認為一定要做調整的啦教育部是民意上的主管機關但他所從事的服務的工作都不是原來教育部不是都不是是百分之六七十不是是輸出養的業務我要講的\n\n30\n00:10:29,486 --> 00:10:40,149\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會\n\n31\n00:10:52,953 --> 00:11:12,846\n一個凱凱案,死了一個孩子,被虐死的一個孩子有沒有違反他的捐助章程?有沒有?教育部只要告訴我這個問題就好,有嗎?你認為有嗎?以文教基金會,你就是會依照相關他所提的事物去做監督他的運作跟他的設立的目的其實是完全不符的他當然有重大缺失啦\n\n32\n00:11:13,186 --> 00:11:37,022\n現在只是我要跟委員報告的是說他在4月我們已經終止了他收出養的業務沒有錯對不對但是他在4月20號他的另外一個新開的粉專居然還在提收出養服務這個部分麻煩跨部會跟衛福部好好的來檢討這個服務聯盟可以嗎OKOK這一定是這樣目前是這樣子處理現在最主要希望處理到哪裡了我要質詢第幾次不是我要講的是\n\n33\n00:11:38,582 --> 00:12:04,069\n這個業務他所做的服務項目不應該以文教籍案應該用但你是他的主管機關我們必須要跨部會來做是我是要跟委員說因為這個部會一定要釐清否則你管他的叫做文教基金會的管理辦法他出大事簡直是出養的問題部長錯囉我剛剛講的是財團法人法是教育部的責任喔是我們教育部要來管喔當然不是只有說出養喔好嗎可以嗎是好謝謝好謝謝謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n169\t3853\t等國務委員質詢完畢之後,我們就如剛剛所宣布的休息五分鐘,謝謝。\n18145\t45619\t諮詢了好幾次終於碰到部長了剛剛其實也有很多人都提到這個師生比的一個問題當然我們知道其實在這個特殊教育班級以及整個所有人員禁用的辦法其實在4月15號有一個新的一個預告那也特別提到了在分散式的資源班跟這個巡迴的這個輔導班的部分這個師生比的比例那在幼兒園的部分其實是1比15\n47028\t61072\t教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會\n66654\t89044\t我跟委員報告,早上因為有幾位委員關心,我再跟委員補充說明一下,因為有關目前資源班的方式,在學前幼兒園、國小、國中還有高中,其實它雖然都叫資源班,但是它的參與的方式不一樣,那學前的這部分,它其實是特教的老師去進班,\n90204\t114760\t協助在這個班裡面有特教生的模式跟國小國中他是把它抽離出來一定要對應課程來做教學的方式而那個學前的那部分他不是上課還是這位老師還是原來幼兒園的老師在進行依照教保大綱他在教然後這位協助的支援班的老師是協助裡面的幼生可能在生活照顧這些做法他跟國小國中不太一樣\n117642\t135419\t但是我想要提到的是就是既然是在偏鄉其實巡迴的這樣子的一個輔導班的一個方式其實大部分對身心障礙者的孩子來講他不是單一的一個狀況他可能是不分區的一個狀況所謂的不分區的狀況他可能有聽障或者他聲障或者是他學習遲緩\n139002\t167641\t那這個部分其實我們是這樣所以師生比的部分是不是應該更合理而且是更健全的應該是往下降我們回到這個高中的部分你看到高中的部分突然又變成1比15去了那其實我們都知道在高中生的時候他們可能碰到所謂的情緒的障礙這樣子的一個狀況跟衝突跟在學校其實這樣子的問題可能會更多他們需要更多的一個協助為什麼到這個地方他的師生比反而變這麼高呢\n169042\t183295\t高中的部分他也不是上課啦他不是上在他的課程是他以他特殊生的需求也就是特需的部分去協助學生還是在原來的普通班裡面那特教的老師是去做這方面的協助\n183635\t187417\t教育及文化委員會第11屆第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期\n210727\t226072\t因為今天時間的關係其實我們快速進入下一題其實大家剛剛其實部長也特別回答了我們這個林議警委員的這個部分就是說要擴大失陪的方向前進這是剛剛您有特別講的在討論這個案子是必要因為目前我們在擴增以後這個所增加的人數是目前所不足的所以我們用五年的時間這個也請施政教師同步一定要 不然這跟不上來\n237475\t240540\t教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會\n252657\t274861\t做這樣子的一個教學的一個方式來做開課那目前為止我們所知道的只有國立台南大學有國小的師資的類科只有這麼一班而且他開課的時間選在所謂的寒暑假那大家都知道其實我相信部長應該也知道尤其是在暑假的時候其實六月中之後有很多所謂的這個師資的訓練沒有所謂沒有師資訓練以及沒有教師證的人其實都在等三招\n280582\t285791\t他不見得會去上實體的課程這個部分到底是我們開課的時間有問題、地點有問題還是授課的內容有問題導致最後其實我們的失陪的進度是這麼的落後\n293099\t299583\t我跟委員報告因為就是說代理老師這個其實是我們認為偏鄉他真的沒有辦法有那麼多專任老師的缺額的輔助做法那麼在這比如最近這111、112我們強烈的要求縣市不能一直保留大量的缺額所以總共兩個學年度開出國中小將近一萬九千多位的教師的缺額那這裡面也有很多就會進到偏鄉\n322455\t336071\t教育部列席就進到偏鄉以後他就是專任老師不再是有職缺沒有老師那麼因此我們在代理老師的這方面是希望有意願在這個區域服務的學校所以在這個條例裡面有用一個專聘老師我們就希望說如果有心繼續留在偏鄉服務的老師\n341758\t351183\t教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第14會期教育及文化委員會第14會\n365010\t389756\t這個部分是最高這個是怎麼樣的一個條件部長您知道嗎這個是要距離他的服務地點要距離公車站要35公里以上35公里是什麼概念從這邊到林口公車站喔光公車站喔他才有6180元的一個加級看一下正式老師的部分他光是6年的固定的加級的部分到最後只多了3396元\n391576\t409637\t好,這是老師。代理老師的部分他的差額就是從頭到尾沒有變。他的差額依舊在這個地方。再來,帶課老師那就更辛苦了。帶課老師是完全沒有偏遠的加級的部分。那這個部分你要怎麼樣吸引人家真的進入到偏鄉去服務呢?\n410661\t421927\t我剛才有跟委員報告為什麼我們怎麼樣都是會以專任教師也就是完全符合這個是對偏鄉孩子的授教權益應該是一個最主要的人力上的目標不管這一次的條例這個目標要什麼時候才能達到\n426509\t450857\t這幾年我剛才為什麼說111跟112我們要請縣市釋出缺額以前他們保留到有時候一個學校偏遠學校保留20%到30%的缺額那不是開玩笑那是他不願意開缺出來聘專任老師那這兩年的努力已經補充這樣這個才是正辦啦那對於代理老師我們很感謝但是代理老師我要跟委員報告\n453578\t457499\t特教老師以目前我們要往生思比的這個部分未來的五年要增加2500位特教老師的缺額五年就是按照剛才跟委員報告的那個比例啦那個私生比\n471744\t473406\t教育及文化委員會第11屆第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會\n488886\t497851\t教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第1會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期\n505536\t515745\t委員如果說有一些要35公里耶你想想看35公里支援老師的這方面的一些激勵措施我們會再滾動的來修正而且這個誘因幾乎是看得到我吃不到耶看得到我拿不到耶6180元其實這個加緊是要公車站牌離我服務的地方要35公里從這裡到林口要有公車站牌是完全沒有的我才能夠拿到最高的加緊耶\n533439\t534259\t教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部立法院第12屆第13屆\n550964\t553185\t教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期\n566332\t580881\t這次是我質詢的第六次,針對兒福聯盟我們的主管機關,兒福聯盟主管機關教育部在這個地方,今天部長好不容易來了之前我質詢了好幾次是次長來,次長也覺得他們完全沒有\n581721\t604215\t自我檢討的一個決心。但是到目前為止上次跟我告訴本席4月19號他們會召開會議包含專家跟學者來召開會議來看凱開案這個部分兒福聯盟有沒有失職的地方到目前為止今天是幾月了五月了這個案子要拖多久對兒福聯盟的懲處的部分我們要拖多久\n605809\t628585\t請教部長我跟委員報告因為這個是財團法人法的部分這我們兩個部會我有說俄府聯盟在業務的歸屬跟主管機關確實是一個我認為一定要做調整的啦教育部是民意上的主管機關但他所從事的服務的工作都不是原來教育部不是都不是是百分之六七十不是是輸出養的業務我要講的\n629486\t640149\t教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會\n652953\t672846\t一個凱凱案,死了一個孩子,被虐死的一個孩子有沒有違反他的捐助章程?有沒有?教育部只要告訴我這個問題就好,有嗎?你認為有嗎?以文教基金會,你就是會依照相關他所提的事物去做監督他的運作跟他的設立的目的其實是完全不符的他當然有重大缺失啦\n673186\t697022\t現在只是我要跟委員報告的是說他在4月我們已經終止了他收出養的業務沒有錯對不對但是他在4月20號他的另外一個新開的粉專居然還在提收出養服務這個部分麻煩跨部會跟衛福部好好的來檢討這個服務聯盟可以嗎OK OK這一定是這樣目前是這樣子處理現在最主要希望處理到哪裡了我要質詢第幾次不是 我要講的是\n698582\t724069\t這個業務他所做的服務項目不應該以文教籍案應該用但你是他的主管機關我們必須要跨部會來做是我是要跟委員說因為這個部會一定要釐清否則你管他的叫做文教基金會的管理辦法他出大事簡直是出養的問題部長錯囉我剛剛講的是財團法人法是教育部的責任喔是我們教育部要來管喔當然不是只有說出養喔好嗎可以嗎是好謝謝好謝謝謝謝主席\n","txt":"等國務委員質詢完畢之後,我們就如剛剛所宣布的休息五分鐘,謝謝。\n諮詢了好幾次終於碰到部長了剛剛其實也有很多人都提到這個師生比的一個問題當然我們知道其實在這個特殊教育班級以及整個所有人員禁用的辦法其實在4月15號有一個新的一個預告那也特別提到了在分散式的資源班跟這個巡迴的這個輔導班的部分這個師生比的比例那在幼兒園的部分其實是1比15\n教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會\n我跟委員報告,早上因為有幾位委員關心,我再跟委員補充說明一下,因為有關目前資源班的方式,在學前幼兒園、國小、國中還有高中,其實它雖然都叫資源班,但是它的參與的方式不一樣,那學前的這部分,它其實是特教的老師去進班,\n協助在這個班裡面有特教生的模式跟國小國中他是把它抽離出來一定要對應課程來做教學的方式而那個學前的那部分他不是上課還是這位老師還是原來幼兒園的老師在進行依照教保大綱他在教然後這位協助的支援班的老師是協助裡面的幼生可能在生活照顧這些做法他跟國小國中不太一樣\n但是我想要提到的是就是既然是在偏鄉其實巡迴的這樣子的一個輔導班的一個方式其實大部分對身心障礙者的孩子來講他不是單一的一個狀況他可能是不分區的一個狀況所謂的不分區的狀況他可能有聽障或者他聲障或者是他學習遲緩\n那這個部分其實我們是這樣所以師生比的部分是不是應該更合理而且是更健全的應該是往下降我們回到這個高中的部分你看到高中的部分突然又變成1比15去了那其實我們都知道在高中生的時候他們可能碰到所謂的情緒的障礙這樣子的一個狀況跟衝突跟在學校其實這樣子的問題可能會更多他們需要更多的一個協助為什麼到這個地方他的師生比反而變這麼高呢\n高中的部分他也不是上課啦他不是上在他的課程是他以他特殊生的需求也就是特需的部分去協助學生還是在原來的普通班裡面那特教的老師是去做這方面的協助\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期\n因為今天時間的關係其實我們快速進入下一題其實大家剛剛其實部長也特別回答了我們這個林議警委員的這個部分就是說要擴大失陪的方向前進這是剛剛您有特別講的在討論這個案子是必要因為目前我們在擴增以後這個所增加的人數是目前所不足的所以我們用五年的時間這個也請施政教師同步一定要 不然這跟不上來\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會\n做這樣子的一個教學的一個方式來做開課那目前為止我們所知道的只有國立台南大學有國小的師資的類科只有這麼一班而且他開課的時間選在所謂的寒暑假那大家都知道其實我相信部長應該也知道尤其是在暑假的時候其實六月中之後有很多所謂的這個師資的訓練沒有所謂沒有師資訓練以及沒有教師證的人其實都在等三招\n他不見得會去上實體的課程這個部分到底是我們開課的時間有問題、地點有問題還是授課的內容有問題導致最後其實我們的失陪的進度是這麼的落後\n我跟委員報告因為就是說代理老師這個其實是我們認為偏鄉他真的沒有辦法有那麼多專任老師的缺額的輔助做法那麼在這比如最近這111、112我們強烈的要求縣市不能一直保留大量的缺額所以總共兩個學年度開出國中小將近一萬九千多位的教師的缺額那這裡面也有很多就會進到偏鄉\n教育部列席就進到偏鄉以後他就是專任老師不再是有職缺沒有老師那麼因此我們在代理老師的這方面是希望有意願在這個區域服務的學校所以在這個條例裡面有用一個專聘老師我們就希望說如果有心繼續留在偏鄉服務的老師\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第14會期教育及文化委員會第14會\n這個部分是最高這個是怎麼樣的一個條件部長您知道嗎這個是要距離他的服務地點要距離公車站要35公里以上35公里是什麼概念從這邊到林口公車站喔光公車站喔他才有6180元的一個加級看一下正式老師的部分他光是6年的固定的加級的部分到最後只多了3396元\n好,這是老師。代理老師的部分他的差額就是從頭到尾沒有變。他的差額依舊在這個地方。再來,帶課老師那就更辛苦了。帶課老師是完全沒有偏遠的加級的部分。那這個部分你要怎麼樣吸引人家真的進入到偏鄉去服務呢?\n我剛才有跟委員報告為什麼我們怎麼樣都是會以專任教師也就是完全符合這個是對偏鄉孩子的授教權益應該是一個最主要的人力上的目標不管這一次的條例這個目標要什麼時候才能達到\n這幾年我剛才為什麼說111跟112我們要請縣市釋出缺額以前他們保留到有時候一個學校偏遠學校保留20%到30%的缺額那不是開玩笑那是他不願意開缺出來聘專任老師那這兩年的努力已經補充這樣這個才是正辦啦那對於代理老師我們很感謝但是代理老師我要跟委員報告\n特教老師以目前我們要往生思比的這個部分未來的五年要增加2500位特教老師的缺額五年就是按照剛才跟委員報告的那個比例啦那個私生比\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會\n教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第1會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期\n委員如果說有一些要35公里耶你想想看35公里支援老師的這方面的一些激勵措施我們會再滾動的來修正而且這個誘因幾乎是看得到我吃不到耶看得到我拿不到耶6180元其實這個加緊是要公車站牌離我服務的地方要35公里從這裡到林口要有公車站牌是完全沒有的我才能夠拿到最高的加緊耶\n教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部立法院第12屆第13屆\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期\n這次是我質詢的第六次,針對兒福聯盟我們的主管機關,兒福聯盟主管機關教育部在這個地方,今天部長好不容易來了之前我質詢了好幾次是次長來,次長也覺得他們完全沒有\n自我檢討的一個決心。但是到目前為止上次跟我告訴本席4月19號他們會召開會議包含專家跟學者來召開會議來看凱開案這個部分兒福聯盟有沒有失職的地方到目前為止今天是幾月了五月了這個案子要拖多久對兒福聯盟的懲處的部分我們要拖多久\n請教部長我跟委員報告因為這個是財團法人法的部分這我們兩個部會我有說俄府聯盟在業務的歸屬跟主管機關確實是一個我認為一定要做調整的啦教育部是民意上的主管機關但他所從事的服務的工作都不是原來教育部不是都不是是百分之六七十不是是輸出養的業務我要講的\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會\n一個凱凱案,死了一個孩子,被虐死的一個孩子有沒有違反他的捐助章程?有沒有?教育部只要告訴我這個問題就好,有嗎?你認為有嗎?以文教基金會,你就是會依照相關他所提的事物去做監督他的運作跟他的設立的目的其實是完全不符的他當然有重大缺失啦\n現在只是我要跟委員報告的是說他在4月我們已經終止了他收出養的業務沒有錯對不對但是他在4月20號他的另外一個新開的粉專居然還在提收出養服務這個部分麻煩跨部會跟衛福部好好的來檢討這個服務聯盟可以嗎OK OK這一定是這樣目前是這樣子處理現在最主要希望處理到哪裡了我要質詢第幾次不是 我要講的是\n這個業務他所做的服務項目不應該以文教籍案應該用但你是他的主管機關我們必須要跨部會來做是我是要跟委員說因為這個部會一定要釐清否則你管他的叫做文教基金會的管理辦法他出大事簡直是出養的問題部長錯囉我剛剛講的是財團法人法是教育部的責任喔是我們教育部要來管喔當然不是只有說出養喔好嗎可以嗎是好謝謝好謝謝謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.169 --> 00:03.853\n等國務委員質詢完畢之後,我們就如剛剛所宣布的休息五分鐘,謝謝。\n\n00:18.145 --> 00:45.619\n諮詢了好幾次終於碰到部長了剛剛其實也有很多人都提到這個師生比的一個問題當然我們知道其實在這個特殊教育班級以及整個所有人員禁用的辦法其實在4月15號有一個新的一個預告那也特別提到了在分散式的資源班跟這個巡迴的這個輔導班的部分這個師生比的比例那在幼兒園的部分其實是1比15\n\n00:47.028 --> 01:01.072\n教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會\n\n01:06.654 --> 01:29.044\n我跟委員報告,早上因為有幾位委員關心,我再跟委員補充說明一下,因為有關目前資源班的方式,在學前幼兒園、國小、國中還有高中,其實它雖然都叫資源班,但是它的參與的方式不一樣,那學前的這部分,它其實是特教的老師去進班,\n\n01:30.204 --> 01:54.760\n協助在這個班裡面有特教生的模式跟國小國中他是把它抽離出來一定要對應課程來做教學的方式而那個學前的那部分他不是上課還是這位老師還是原來幼兒園的老師在進行依照教保大綱他在教然後這位協助的支援班的老師是協助裡面的幼生可能在生活照顧這些做法他跟國小國中不太一樣\n\n01:57.642 --> 02:15.419\n但是我想要提到的是就是既然是在偏鄉其實巡迴的這樣子的一個輔導班的一個方式其實大部分對身心障礙者的孩子來講他不是單一的一個狀況他可能是不分區的一個狀況所謂的不分區的狀況他可能有聽障或者他聲障或者是他學習遲緩\n\n02:19.002 --> 02:47.641\n那這個部分其實我們是這樣所以師生比的部分是不是應該更合理而且是更健全的應該是往下降我們回到這個高中的部分你看到高中的部分突然又變成1比15去了那其實我們都知道在高中生的時候他們可能碰到所謂的情緒的障礙這樣子的一個狀況跟衝突跟在學校其實這樣子的問題可能會更多他們需要更多的一個協助為什麼到這個地方他的師生比反而變這麼高呢\n\n02:49.042 --> 03:03.295\n高中的部分他也不是上課啦他不是上在他的課程是他以他特殊生的需求也就是特需的部分去協助學生還是在原來的普通班裡面那特教的老師是去做這方面的協助\n\n03:03.635 --> 03:07.417\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期\n\n03:30.727 --> 03:46.072\n因為今天時間的關係其實我們快速進入下一題其實大家剛剛其實部長也特別回答了我們這個林議警委員的這個部分就是說要擴大失陪的方向前進這是剛剛您有特別講的在討論這個案子是必要因為目前我們在擴增以後這個所增加的人數是目前所不足的所以我們用五年的時間這個也請施政教師同步一定要不然這跟不上來\n\n03:57.475 --> 04:00.540\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會\n\n04:12.657 --> 04:34.861\n做這樣子的一個教學的一個方式來做開課那目前為止我們所知道的只有國立台南大學有國小的師資的類科只有這麼一班而且他開課的時間選在所謂的寒暑假那大家都知道其實我相信部長應該也知道尤其是在暑假的時候其實六月中之後有很多所謂的這個師資的訓練沒有所謂沒有師資訓練以及沒有教師證的人其實都在等三招\n\n04:40.582 --> 04:45.791\n他不見得會去上實體的課程這個部分到底是我們開課的時間有問題、地點有問題還是授課的內容有問題導致最後其實我們的失陪的進度是這麼的落後\n\n04:53.099 --> 04:59.583\n我跟委員報告因為就是說代理老師這個其實是我們認為偏鄉他真的沒有辦法有那麼多專任老師的缺額的輔助做法那麼在這比如最近這111、112我們強烈的要求縣市不能一直保留大量的缺額所以總共兩個學年度開出國中小將近一萬九千多位的教師的缺額那這裡面也有很多就會進到偏鄉\n\n05:22.455 --> 05:36.071\n教育部列席就進到偏鄉以後他就是專任老師不再是有職缺沒有老師那麼因此我們在代理老師的這方面是希望有意願在這個區域服務的學校所以在這個條例裡面有用一個專聘老師我們就希望說如果有心繼續留在偏鄉服務的老師\n\n05:41.758 --> 05:51.183\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第14會期教育及文化委員會第14會\n\n06:05.010 --> 06:29.756\n這個部分是最高這個是怎麼樣的一個條件部長您知道嗎這個是要距離他的服務地點要距離公車站要35公里以上35公里是什麼概念從這邊到林口公車站喔光公車站喔他才有6180元的一個加級看一下正式老師的部分他光是6年的固定的加級的部分到最後只多了3396元\n\n06:31.576 --> 06:49.637\n好,這是老師。代理老師的部分他的差額就是從頭到尾沒有變。他的差額依舊在這個地方。再來,帶課老師那就更辛苦了。帶課老師是完全沒有偏遠的加級的部分。那這個部分你要怎麼樣吸引人家真的進入到偏鄉去服務呢?\n\n06:50.661 --> 07:01.927\n我剛才有跟委員報告為什麼我們怎麼樣都是會以專任教師也就是完全符合這個是對偏鄉孩子的授教權益應該是一個最主要的人力上的目標不管這一次的條例這個目標要什麼時候才能達到\n\n07:06.509 --> 07:30.857\n這幾年我剛才為什麼說111跟112我們要請縣市釋出缺額以前他們保留到有時候一個學校偏遠學校保留20%到30%的缺額那不是開玩笑那是他不願意開缺出來聘專任老師那這兩年的努力已經補充這樣這個才是正辦啦那對於代理老師我們很感謝但是代理老師我要跟委員報告\n\n07:33.578 --> 07:37.499\n特教老師以目前我們要往生思比的這個部分未來的五年要增加2500位特教老師的缺額五年就是按照剛才跟委員報告的那個比例啦那個私生比\n\n07:51.744 --> 07:53.406\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會\n\n08:08.886 --> 08:17.851\n教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第1會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期\n\n08:25.536 --> 08:35.745\n委員如果說有一些要35公里耶你想想看35公里支援老師的這方面的一些激勵措施我們會再滾動的來修正而且這個誘因幾乎是看得到我吃不到耶看得到我拿不到耶6180元其實這個加緊是要公車站牌離我服務的地方要35公里從這裡到林口要有公車站牌是完全沒有的我才能夠拿到最高的加緊耶\n\n08:53.439 --> 08:54.259\n教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部立法院第12屆第13屆\n\n09:10.964 --> 09:13.185\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期\n\n09:26.332 --> 09:40.881\n這次是我質詢的第六次,針對兒福聯盟我們的主管機關,兒福聯盟主管機關教育部在這個地方,今天部長好不容易來了之前我質詢了好幾次是次長來,次長也覺得他們完全沒有\n\n09:41.721 --> 10:04.215\n自我檢討的一個決心。但是到目前為止上次跟我告訴本席4月19號他們會召開會議包含專家跟學者來召開會議來看凱開案這個部分兒福聯盟有沒有失職的地方到目前為止今天是幾月了五月了這個案子要拖多久對兒福聯盟的懲處的部分我們要拖多久\n\n10:05.809 --> 10:28.585\n請教部長我跟委員報告因為這個是財團法人法的部分這我們兩個部會我有說俄府聯盟在業務的歸屬跟主管機關確實是一個我認為一定要做調整的啦教育部是民意上的主管機關但他所從事的服務的工作都不是原來教育部不是都不是是百分之六七十不是是輸出養的業務我要講的\n\n10:29.486 --> 10:40.149\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會\n\n10:52.953 --> 11:12.846\n一個凱凱案,死了一個孩子,被虐死的一個孩子有沒有違反他的捐助章程?有沒有?教育部只要告訴我這個問題就好,有嗎?你認為有嗎?以文教基金會,你就是會依照相關他所提的事物去做監督他的運作跟他的設立的目的其實是完全不符的他當然有重大缺失啦\n\n11:13.186 --> 11:37.022\n現在只是我要跟委員報告的是說他在4月我們已經終止了他收出養的業務沒有錯對不對但是他在4月20號他的另外一個新開的粉專居然還在提收出養服務這個部分麻煩跨部會跟衛福部好好的來檢討這個服務聯盟可以嗎OKOK這一定是這樣目前是這樣子處理現在最主要希望處理到哪裡了我要質詢第幾次不是我要講的是\n\n11:38.582 --> 12:04.069\n這個業務他所做的服務項目不應該以文教籍案應該用但你是他的主管機關我們必須要跨部會來做是我是要跟委員說因為這個部會一定要釐清否則你管他的叫做文教基金會的管理辦法他出大事簡直是出養的問題部長錯囉我剛剛講的是財團法人法是教育部的責任喔是我們教育部要來管喔當然不是只有說出養喔好嗎可以嗎是好謝謝好謝謝謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.169,"end":3.853,"text":"等國務委員質詢完畢之後,我們就如剛剛所宣布的休息五分鐘,謝謝。"},{"start":18.145,"end":45.619,"text":"諮詢了好幾次終於碰到部長了剛剛其實也有很多人都提到這個師生比的一個問題當然我們知道其實在這個特殊教育班級以及整個所有人員禁用的辦法其實在4月15號有一個新的一個預告那也特別提到了在分散式的資源班跟這個巡迴的這個輔導班的部分這個師生比的比例那在幼兒園的部分其實是1比15"},{"start":47.028,"end":61.072,"text":"教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會第10次全期教育及文化委員會"},{"start":66.654,"end":89.044,"text":"我跟委員報告,早上因為有幾位委員關心,我再跟委員補充說明一下,因為有關目前資源班的方式,在學前幼兒園、國小、國中還有高中,其實它雖然都叫資源班,但是它的參與的方式不一樣,那學前的這部分,它其實是特教的老師去進班,"},{"start":90.204,"end":114.76,"text":"協助在這個班裡面有特教生的模式跟國小國中他是把它抽離出來一定要對應課程來做教學的方式而那個學前的那部分他不是上課還是這位老師還是原來幼兒園的老師在進行依照教保大綱他在教然後這位協助的支援班的老師是協助裡面的幼生可能在生活照顧這些做法他跟國小國中不太一樣"},{"start":117.642,"end":135.419,"text":"但是我想要提到的是就是既然是在偏鄉其實巡迴的這樣子的一個輔導班的一個方式其實大部分對身心障礙者的孩子來講他不是單一的一個狀況他可能是不分區的一個狀況所謂的不分區的狀況他可能有聽障或者他聲障或者是他學習遲緩"},{"start":139.002,"end":167.641,"text":"那這個部分其實我們是這樣所以師生比的部分是不是應該更合理而且是更健全的應該是往下降我們回到這個高中的部分你看到高中的部分突然又變成1比15去了那其實我們都知道在高中生的時候他們可能碰到所謂的情緒的障礙這樣子的一個狀況跟衝突跟在學校其實這樣子的問題可能會更多他們需要更多的一個協助為什麼到這個地方他的師生比反而變這麼高呢"},{"start":169.042,"end":183.295,"text":"高中的部分他也不是上課啦他不是上在他的課程是他以他特殊生的需求也就是特需的部分去協助學生還是在原來的普通班裡面那特教的老師是去做這方面的協助"},{"start":183.635,"end":187.417,"text":"教育及文化委員會第11屆第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期"},{"start":210.727,"end":226.072,"text":"因為今天時間的關係其實我們快速進入下一題其實大家剛剛其實部長也特別回答了我們這個林議警委員的這個部分就是說要擴大失陪的方向前進這是剛剛您有特別講的在討論這個案子是必要因為目前我們在擴增以後這個所增加的人數是目前所不足的所以我們用五年的時間這個也請施政教師同步一定要 不然這跟不上來"},{"start":237.475,"end":240.54,"text":"教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會"},{"start":252.657,"end":274.861,"text":"做這樣子的一個教學的一個方式來做開課那目前為止我們所知道的只有國立台南大學有國小的師資的類科只有這麼一班而且他開課的時間選在所謂的寒暑假那大家都知道其實我相信部長應該也知道尤其是在暑假的時候其實六月中之後有很多所謂的這個師資的訓練沒有所謂沒有師資訓練以及沒有教師證的人其實都在等三招"},{"start":280.582,"end":285.791,"text":"他不見得會去上實體的課程這個部分到底是我們開課的時間有問題、地點有問題還是授課的內容有問題導致最後其實我們的失陪的進度是這麼的落後"},{"start":293.099,"end":299.583,"text":"我跟委員報告因為就是說代理老師這個其實是我們認為偏鄉他真的沒有辦法有那麼多專任老師的缺額的輔助做法那麼在這比如最近這111、112我們強烈的要求縣市不能一直保留大量的缺額所以總共兩個學年度開出國中小將近一萬九千多位的教師的缺額那這裡面也有很多就會進到偏鄉"},{"start":322.455,"end":336.071,"text":"教育部列席就進到偏鄉以後他就是專任老師不再是有職缺沒有老師那麼因此我們在代理老師的這方面是希望有意願在這個區域服務的學校所以在這個條例裡面有用一個專聘老師我們就希望說如果有心繼續留在偏鄉服務的老師"},{"start":341.758,"end":351.183,"text":"教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第14會期教育及文化委員會第14會"},{"start":365.01,"end":389.756,"text":"這個部分是最高這個是怎麼樣的一個條件部長您知道嗎這個是要距離他的服務地點要距離公車站要35公里以上35公里是什麼概念從這邊到林口公車站喔光公車站喔他才有6180元的一個加級看一下正式老師的部分他光是6年的固定的加級的部分到最後只多了3396元"},{"start":391.576,"end":409.637,"text":"好,這是老師。代理老師的部分他的差額就是從頭到尾沒有變。他的差額依舊在這個地方。再來,帶課老師那就更辛苦了。帶課老師是完全沒有偏遠的加級的部分。那這個部分你要怎麼樣吸引人家真的進入到偏鄉去服務呢?"},{"start":410.661,"end":421.927,"text":"我剛才有跟委員報告為什麼我們怎麼樣都是會以專任教師也就是完全符合這個是對偏鄉孩子的授教權益應該是一個最主要的人力上的目標不管這一次的條例這個目標要什麼時候才能達到"},{"start":426.509,"end":450.857,"text":"這幾年我剛才為什麼說111跟112我們要請縣市釋出缺額以前他們保留到有時候一個學校偏遠學校保留20%到30%的缺額那不是開玩笑那是他不願意開缺出來聘專任老師那這兩年的努力已經補充這樣這個才是正辦啦那對於代理老師我們很感謝但是代理老師我要跟委員報告"},{"start":453.578,"end":457.499,"text":"特教老師以目前我們要往生思比的這個部分未來的五年要增加2500位特教老師的缺額五年就是按照剛才跟委員報告的那個比例啦那個私生比"},{"start":471.744,"end":473.406,"text":"教育及文化委員會第11屆第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會"},{"start":488.886,"end":497.851,"text":"教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第1會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期教育部立法院第2會期"},{"start":505.536,"end":515.745,"text":"委員如果說有一些要35公里耶你想想看35公里支援老師的這方面的一些激勵措施我們會再滾動的來修正而且這個誘因幾乎是看得到我吃不到耶看得到我拿不到耶6180元其實這個加緊是要公車站牌離我服務的地方要35公里從這裡到林口要有公車站牌是完全沒有的我才能夠拿到最高的加緊耶"},{"start":533.439,"end":534.259,"text":"教育部立法院第11屆第1會期教育部立法院第12屆第13屆"},{"start":550.964,"end":553.185,"text":"教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期"},{"start":566.332,"end":580.881,"text":"這次是我質詢的第六次,針對兒福聯盟我們的主管機關,兒福聯盟主管機關教育部在這個地方,今天部長好不容易來了之前我質詢了好幾次是次長來,次長也覺得他們完全沒有"},{"start":581.721,"end":604.215,"text":"自我檢討的一個決心。但是到目前為止上次跟我告訴本席4月19號他們會召開會議包含專家跟學者來召開會議來看凱開案這個部分兒福聯盟有沒有失職的地方到目前為止今天是幾月了五月了這個案子要拖多久對兒福聯盟的懲處的部分我們要拖多久"},{"start":605.809,"end":628.585,"text":"請教部長我跟委員報告因為這個是財團法人法的部分這我們兩個部會我有說俄府聯盟在業務的歸屬跟主管機關確實是一個我認為一定要做調整的啦教育部是民意上的主管機關但他所從事的服務的工作都不是原來教育部不是都不是是百分之六七十不是是輸出養的業務我要講的"},{"start":629.486,"end":640.149,"text":"教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第4會"},{"start":652.953,"end":672.846,"text":"一個凱凱案,死了一個孩子,被虐死的一個孩子有沒有違反他的捐助章程?有沒有?教育部只要告訴我這個問題就好,有嗎?你認為有嗎?以文教基金會,你就是會依照相關他所提的事物去做監督他的運作跟他的設立的目的其實是完全不符的他當然有重大缺失啦"},{"start":673.186,"end":697.022,"text":"現在只是我要跟委員報告的是說他在4月我們已經終止了他收出養的業務沒有錯對不對但是他在4月20號他的另外一個新開的粉專居然還在提收出養服務這個部分麻煩跨部會跟衛福部好好的來檢討這個服務聯盟可以嗎OK OK這一定是這樣目前是這樣子處理現在最主要希望處理到哪裡了我要質詢第幾次不是 我要講的是"},{"start":698.582,"end":724.069,"text":"這個業務他所做的服務項目不應該以文教籍案應該用但你是他的主管機關我們必須要跨部會來做是我是要跟委員說因為這個部會一定要釐清否則你管他的叫做文教基金會的管理辦法他出大事簡直是出養的問題部長錯囉我剛剛講的是財團法人法是教育部的責任喔是我們教育部要來管喔當然不是只有說出養喔好嗎可以嗎是好謝謝好謝謝謝謝主席"}]}}}}