{"id":152056,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152056","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6f015fe8e6787db1a9a3230f965ed664e12ebde737ab3c1955be169921a0a71760397b764e3c89ef5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"呂玉玲","委員發言時間":"10:49:33 - 11:00:51","影片長度":"00:11:18","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：審查：\n一、行政院函請審議「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、本院委員柯志恩等17人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n三、本院委員賴士葆等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n四、本院委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n五、本院委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「中小企業發展條例增訂第三十六條之四條文草案」案。\n六、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n七、本院國民黨黨團擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n八、本院委員張智倫等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十五條、第三十六條之二及第四十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、本院委員王世堅等16人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十五條、第三十六條之二及第四十條條文修正草案」案。\n十、本院委員郭國文等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n十一、本院委員邱議瑩等29人擬具「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（詢答及處理，委員郭國文等人提案如未接獲議事處來函則不予審查）【4月29日、5月1日及2日三天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-02","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-10"},"duration":678,"end_time":"2024-05-02T11:00:51+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-02T10:49:33+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":420,"blocks":[["呂委員玉玲：（10時49分）謝謝主席，請王部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["呂委員玉玲：部長。今天我們經濟委員會特別排了中小企業發展條例的修正，因為我們看到我們中小企業的低薪問題非常嚴重，尤其昨天是51勞動節，我們也看到中小企業的白皮書，2022年臺灣中小企業就有163萬家，占全體企業數98%，占全部就業人數將近有913萬，將近有八成；2023年中小企業白皮書特別有提到，2022年中小企業員工的平均月薪收入大概是3.91萬，大企業的員工每個月平均大概是4.98萬，相差就是1萬元，所以我們必須要來做調整，加薪、減稅，這是刻不容緩的，對不對？","本席在去年的時候，特別針對中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二第三項有提出這些建議，也就是連續6個月的失業率要達到3.78%，這一項我們看到你們這次特別在這個前提之下也刪除了，這個部分本席給予肯定，這才能夠讓中小企業有更多的人可以提出申請加薪、減稅，尤其是在105年跟106年，大概也只有六十幾家，這個還是不足，因為總共有163萬家，但是提出申請的非常少。所以我們希望在修法之後要加強宣導，請問部長，你們準備好加強宣導，未來大概會增加多少家來申請呢？"],["王部長美花：加強宣導確實是一個很重要的配套，這個我們一定會跟財政部一起，讓更多中小企業知道這個好的措施。"],["呂委員玉玲：你們預估會增加多少？"],["王部長美花：我們預估在修改之後，新僱的部分可以增加331家，有3,900人適用，財稅的減損可以有七億多，在財政部來講是稅損，對於企業是節約。"],["呂委員玉玲：還是要再加強啦，因為中小企業很多、很多，三百多家還是不夠，再加強，好不好？","再來，在加薪減稅的方案裡面，我們看到除了24歲以下的青年員工適用外，也納入45歲以上的中高年齡層，但我們看到主計總處在111年的統計收入，未滿30歲的大概是53.6萬，30到34歲是69.2萬，在這樣的情形下，這樣的差距，我們是不是可以提高年齡層？不要在24歲以下，24歲還在讀書，是不是應該提高年齡到30歲以下？"],["王部長美花：這個是因為在之前……"],["呂委員玉玲：30歲以下還是年輕人，讓雇主能夠多聘用年輕人。"],["王部長美花：這個是按照統計的情形，也就是失業率比較高的是24歲以下，所以當時……"],["呂委員玉玲：24歲還在讀書啦！"],["王部長美花：有，其實24歲以下已經有很多……"],["呂委員玉玲：所以我們建議你們可以研議一下提高到30歲以下，好不好？"],["王部長美花：這個等一下可以再討論。"],["呂委員玉玲：再研議、研議，因為30歲以下的年輕人還是需要受益的範圍，是不是？","再來想請問部長的就是，曾經我們的總統蔡英文為了安撫民心，宣稱電價10年不會漲，但是這8年來，不但4度調漲，而且漲幅高達35%，電價、物價都雙漲，讓人民苦不堪言。而我們在禮拜二、4月底時，我們也提出凍漲電價，反映民意，因為漲了電價，物價一定漲，我們民生的生計都一定會受到很大的衝擊。但是我看到部長特別提到就是，尊重立院的決議，但是要依照電業法第四十九條來辦理。立法院有監督行政單位的職權，我們的決議，你沒有辦法去尊重、去執行的話，這樣子不就是擺爛嗎？"],["王部長美花：不能說是擺爛啦，因為按照電業法規定，確實我們的審議會也審議通過，4月1號也開始執行，所以就相關規範來講，我們確實也應該去執行……"],["呂委員玉玲：因為我們立法代表是民意的代表，民意的代表就應該反映民意，民意都希望政府能夠苦民所苦，所以我們作出了決議要凍漲電價，但我們監督行政的權力被你們行政單位踐踏啦！"],["王部長美花：事實上，我們這一次的調漲已經非常限縮，所以我們在今天也需要院裡來追加預算。"],["呂委員玉玲：如果部長還是一直強調的話，我們就趕快來修電業法，未來電價審議委員會作出的所有決定，必須要送到立法院審查通過才能執行，好不好？"],["王部長美花：我……"],["呂委員玉玲：接下來，我要跟你討論的就是，部長，在今年3月22號桃園市政府針對廢止這3家SRF發電廠的廠商，包括立方、可寧衛、立疆這3家進駐到桃園科技工業園區，這是因為經濟部收回了推薦函，所以市府才會做出這個決定，這3家SRF的專案，入園就已經不完備了，同時也表示廠商未來有可能會提出行政救濟，也就是訴訟，來跟你對簿公堂。但是這一切的爭議起源就是經濟部的推薦函，部長，你是否還有印象這3家SRF電廠的入園許可是因為你開的專案會議？部長親自主持的專案會議，你還有印象嗎？"],["王部長美花：我當然有印象，對於用SRF讓事業廢棄物可以把它打包，達到比較少的污染，然後又可以解決事業廢棄物的部分，這都是有很仔細地考慮，而且這是按照目前的環境部……"],["呂委員玉玲：那你現在為什麼收回推薦函呢？"],["王部長美花：因為當時我們是告訴桃園市政府，入園許可是按照桃園市的相關規範，經濟部是推薦，像委員講的，這是推薦，而這個沒有拘束力，在這個部分，我們是認為讓事業廢棄物可以好好地來用，所以我們經濟部的立場、環境部的立場，我們當然是推薦。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以部長你的意思是說，沒有法律效力，那你幹麼多此一舉送這個推薦函還有政策表述呢？"],["王部長美花：因為在當時的討論過程中，對於SRF的相關效益部分，確實我們有開會討論，除了去化事業廢棄物之外，事實上也減少了相關污染，SRF其實是一個比較好的方式，讓整個沒有經過打包的事業廢棄物來燒是好的。"],["呂委員玉玲：部長，這3家廠商的入園許可發放的時間大概在2021年3月10號，最晚的是在2022年12月5號，都是在鄭文燦市府的時候專案核可的，而且這3家的入園許可跟前面2家的建照還有排放權都是在鄭文燦時代一手促成的，張善政一上任之後，才擋下第3家的建照，而且最重要的是，鄭文燦一開始是不同意的，他不同意的話，這3家在2018年、2019年當時都陸續發函給桃園市政府詢問是否可以入園，當時市政府經發局特別回復他們說，不符合桃科園區土管的規定，不可以入園；直到2022年的12月16號，經濟部在桃園市政府召開了這個專案會議，才讓這3家不符合規定的廠商可以專案核准入園，這是你主持的會議。而且最重要的是，還有能源局發給他們的再生能源發電設備同意備案的文件，也就是這個設備的建照是同意的，最後還在你們12月23號的會議中，也決議要核發備案同意的文件給這個廠商，所以市政府是被動同意的。"],["王部長美花：應該不能這樣講，就是說，對能源局來講，它有沒有符合SRF的相關證照，這個本來就是我們中央主管機關要去決定的，我們按照再生能源法相關規定、按照環境部對於SRF要求的能效部分，我們會來做確認它有沒有符合，並告訴桃園市政府，這些部分按照中央的規範有沒有符合；至於它能不能具體入園到桃園，當然是由桃園市政府作成的決策。"],["呂委員玉玲：部長，不要推卸責任、不要甩鍋……"],["王部長美花：我們沒有推卸責任……"],["呂委員玉玲：你的同意函，最重要是你開了專案會議，還有入園許可，還有能源局的建照，才讓市政府不得不同意，硬被你們綁架才同意的。"],["王部長美花：不能這樣講。"],["呂委員玉玲：現在是因為民意反彈，民意不支持，有污染的疑慮，所以桃園市政府現在才把它擋下來。你們現在還一直發函說如果沒有參考的必要性，那就收回推薦函，就不用再表述了，你不用再參考了，而且你讓他們自行來做決定，這不是甩鍋啊？當時要不是你的專案會議，你為什麼開專案會議呢？還有推薦函呢？能源局還要發給他們建照呢？所以廠商未來可能會提出訴訟，也請經濟部你們要承擔這個責任，不要讓我們觀音人、桃園人為你錯誤的能源政策來買單！"],["主席：謝謝。呂玉玲委員。"],["主席（呂委員玉玲代）：請楊瓊瓔召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":510,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-10","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","謝衣鳯","賴士葆","邱議瑩","張智倫","郭國文","陳亭妃","林岱樺","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","呂玉玲","蔡易餘","洪孟楷","邱志偉","鍾佳濱","賴瑞隆","陳冠廷","陳培瑜","張嘉郡","黃國昌","陳超明","牛煦庭","羅廷瑋"],"page_start":419,"meetingDate":["2024-05-02"],"gazette_id":"1133801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查：一、行政院函請審議「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案；二、本院委員柯志恩等\n17人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案；三、本院委員賴士葆等19人擬\n具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案；四、本院委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「中\n小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案；五、本院委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「中小企業\n發展條例增訂第三十六條之四條文草案」案；六、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「中小企業發展條例\n部分條文修正草案」案；七、本院國民黨黨團擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正\n草案」案；八、本院委員張智倫等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十五條、第三十六條之二及\n第四十條條文修正草案」案；九、本院委員王世堅等16人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十五條、\n第三十六條之二及第四十條條文修正草案」案；十、本院委員郭國文等19人擬具「中小企業發展\n條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案；十一、本院委員邱議瑩等29人擬具「中小企業發展條例\n部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133801_00006"}},"transcript":{"id":"152056","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152056","tool":"pyannote","id":"152056-pyannote"},"job_id":"YFjwCzhJKfinWZYw","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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{\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 413.035, \"end\": 413.135, \"score\": 0.732}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 413.135, \"end\": 413.295, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"印\", \"start\": 413.295, \"end\": 413.455, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"象\", \"start\": 413.455, \"end\": 413.475, \"score\": 0.247}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 414.436, \"end\": 417.799, \"text\": \"我當然有印象,那對於這個用SRF讓這個事業廢棄物可以把它打包比較少的汙染,然後又可以解決事業廢棄物這一個部分,那這個都是有很仔細的考慮,而且這是按照目前的環境…那你現在為什麼收回推薦函呢?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 414.436, \"end\": 414.777, \"score\": 0.558}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 414.777, \"end\": 414.917, \"score\": 0.47}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 414.917, \"end\": 415.097, \"score\": 0.737}, {\"word\": \"印\", \"start\": 415.097, \"end\": 415.117, \"score\": 0.11}, {\"word\": \"象\", \"start\": 415.117, \"end\": 415.197, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 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00:00:10,422\n接下來我們請李玉玲委員請做詢答。謝謝。謝謝主席。請王部長。我們請部長。\n\n2\n00:00:18,783 --> 00:00:37,034\n部長今天我們經濟委員會特別排了中小企業的發展條例的修正那因為我們看到整個我們中小企業的低薪問題非常的嚴重那尤其昨天是五一勞動節那我們也看到我們中小企業的白皮書上在2022年的台灣中小企業就有163萬家占全體的企業數98%那占了全部的\n\n3\n00:00:46,580 --> 00:01:01,212\n賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：事由：審查：事由賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：事由賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：事由賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：事由賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：事由賴士葆等19人擬\n\n4\n00:01:16,483 --> 00:01:39,304\n那我們尤其是在本席在去年的時候特別對中小企業發展條例的三十六條之二的第三項也有提出了這些建議就是說在連續這個六個月的這個失業率要達到百分之三點七八這一項我們看到你們這一次也特別在這前提之下也刪除了\n\n5\n00:01:40,245 --> 00:01:40,265\n閱讀委員\n\n6\n00:02:06,158 --> 00:02:11,636\n部長,你們準備好加強宣導,那未來會大概增加多少加來申請呢?\n\n7\n00:02:12,310 --> 00:02:17,073\n是,那在我們這個加強宣導確實是一個很重要的一個配套。那這個我們一定會跟財政部一起來讓這個更多的中小企業知道這個好的措施。你們預估會增加多少?我們預估在修改之後那個新顧的這個部分呢可以增加這個331家然後有這個3900人的適用。那這個的稅務財稅的減損呢可以有7億多的這樣的一個\n\n8\n00:02:42,249 --> 00:02:42,290\n賴主席。\n\n9\n00:03:04,611 --> 00:03:07,353\n我們看到主計總數他在111年的統計收入裡面來看未滿30歲的話大概在53.6萬30到34歲的話在69.2萬那這個情形看了差距上我們是不是可以要提高年齡層不要在24歲以下24歲還在讀書是不是應該在30歲以下提高這個年齡\n\n10\n00:03:29,465 --> 00:03:33,207\n他們三十歲以下還是年輕人啊,讓屋主能夠多聘用年輕人。二十四歲還在讀書啦,所以我們建議你們可以研議一下提高到三十歲以下好不好。\n\n11\n00:03:50,461 --> 00:03:54,163\n三、本院委員賴士葆等19人擬具«中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案》案。\n\n12\n00:04:42,335 --> 00:04:56,483\n但是依照電業法49條來辦理這個立法院有監督行政單位我們的決議你並沒有辦法去尊重去執行的話那這樣子不是就是擺爛嗎?\n\n13\n00:05:00,877 --> 00:05:24,573\n因為這個按照現在的電影法規定那確實我們的這個審議會也審議通過那4月1號也開始執行所以就這個相關的規範來講我們確實也應該因為我們立法代表民意的代表民意的代表就反映民意民意都需要我們政府能苦民所苦所以我們動掌了店家做出了決議我們行政權被你們這個行政單位來踐踏了\n\n14\n00:05:28,826 --> 00:05:36,169\n事實上我們這一次的挑戰已經做了這個非常的限縮,所以我們在今天也會提到越來越佳意願。\n\n15\n00:05:47,281 --> 00:06:10,551\n接下來我要跟你討論的就是部長在今年的3月22號特別我們桃園市政府針對於廢紙這三家SRF發電廠的這個廠商包括是我們的立方跟我們的柯林衛跟立江這三家進駐到桃園科技工業園區這個是我們經濟部\n\n16\n00:06:14,173 --> 00:06:35,190\nadequate因為你們收回了推薦函所以我們師傅才會做出這個決定喔那這三家的SRF的專案啊入園就已經不完備了所以同時也表示廠商未來有可能會提出行政的救濟也就是訴訟來跟你對駁公堂齁那但是這一切的爭議起源的就是經濟部你的推薦函部長\n\n17\n00:06:38,157 --> 00:06:53,475\n您是否還有印象,這三家SRF的電廠它的入園許可是因為你開了專案的會議,部長親自主持專案的會議,您還有印象嗎?\n\n18\n00:06:54,436 --> 00:06:57,799\n我當然有印象,那對於這個用SRF讓這個事業廢棄物可以把它打包比較少的汙染,然後又可以解決事業廢棄物這一個部分,那這個都是有很仔細的考慮,而且這是按照目前的環境…那你現在為什麼收回推薦函呢?\n\n19\n00:07:11,471 --> 00:07:15,495\n那因為在當時的部分我們是告訴桃園市政府說入園的許可是按照桃園市的相關的規範那經濟部是推薦那像委員講的這個是推薦那他沒有一個拘束力那所以在這個部分我們是認為讓這個事業廢棄物可以好好的來用所以我們經濟部的立場環境部的立場我們當然是推薦\n\n20\n00:07:37,395 --> 00:07:43,220\n所以部長你的意思是說沒有法律效力沒有法律效力你幹嘛多此一舉來送這個推薦函還有政策的表述呢?那因為在當時討論的過程當中對於SRF的相關的這個效益的部分那確實我們有開會討論那認為這樣的除了去化四月廢棄物種它事實上也減少相關的污染那對於這個SRF\n\n21\n00:08:20,031 --> 00:08:47,190\n而且這三家的入園許可跟前面兩家的建造還有它的排放權都是在鄭文燦時代一手促成的張善政一上任之後才會擋下第三家的這個建造而且最重要的是鄭文燦一開始是不同意的他不同意的話經發局那時候三家經發局在2018年2019年的時候都陸續發函給桃園市政府是否可以入園當時的市政府的經發局特別說\n\n22\n00:09:09,159 --> 00:09:32,054\n最重要的是還有能源警發給他們的再生能源的發電設備同意備案的文件也就是這個設備的建造是同意的這個最後還在你12月23號的這一場會議中也決議要核發給這個備案同意的這個文件給這個廠商所以市政府是被動同意的\n\n23\n00:09:33,335 --> 00:09:38,877\n應該不能這樣講齁就是說對能源局來講他有沒有符合這個SRF的相關的證照這個是我們本來中央局管就要去決定的那至於我們按照相關的現在再生能源法的規定按照環境部他對SRF要求的這個能效的部分我們是來做確認他有沒有符合告訴桃園市政府說這個這一些的部分按照中央的規範可不可\n\n24\n00:10:01,824 --> 00:10:05,327\nadequatetotheapplicationofthedraftlaw?\n\n25\n00:10:27,103 --> 00:10:46,460\n所以現在因為是民意反彈民意不等支持因為有污染的餘力所以桃園市政府現在才把他擋下來那你們現在還一直發言說如果說沒有參考的必要性的話那我就收回這個推薦函最後就不用再表述了不用再參考了而且你讓他們\n\n26\n00:10:49,358 --> 00:11:13,945\n來就決定這不是甩鍋啊當時不是你的專案會議你為什麼拍專案會議呢還要推薦函呢農業局還要發給他們的建造呢所以請現在廠商他未來可能會提出訴訟也請我們的經濟部你們要承擔下來這個責任不要讓我們的觀音人、桃園人來為你錯誤的能源政策來買單\n\n27\n00:11:17,298 --> 00:11:17,318\n好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n430\t10422\t接下來我們請李玉玲委員請做詢答。謝謝。謝謝主席。請王部長。我們請部長。\n18783\t37034\t部長今天我們經濟委員會特別排了中小企業的發展條例的修正那因為我們看到整個我們中小企業的低薪問題非常的嚴重那尤其昨天是五一勞動節那我們也看到我們中小企業的白皮書上在2022年的台灣中小企業就有163萬家占全體的企業數98%那占了全部的\n46580\t61212\t賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：事由：審查：事由賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：事由賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：事由賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：事由賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：事由賴士葆等19人擬\n76483\t99304\t那我們尤其是在本席在去年的時候特別對中小企業發展條例的三十六條之二的第三項也有提出了這些建議就是說在連續這個六個月的這個失業率要達到百分之三點七八這一項我們看到你們這一次也特別在這前提之下也刪除了\n100245\t100265\t閱讀委員\n126158\t131636\t部長,你們準備好加強宣導,那未來會大概增加多少加來申請呢?\n132310\t137073\t是,那在我們這個加強宣導確實是一個很重要的一個配套。那這個我們一定會跟財政部一起來讓這個更多的中小企業知道這個好的措施。你們預估會增加多少?我們預估在修改之後那個新顧的這個部分呢可以增加這個331家然後有這個3900人的適用。那這個的稅務財稅的減損呢可以有7億多的這樣的一個\n162249\t162290\t賴主席。\n184611\t187353\t我們看到主計總數他在111年的統計收入裡面來看未滿30歲的話大概在53.6萬30到34歲的話在69.2萬那這個情形看了差距上我們是不是可以要提高年齡層不要在24歲以下24歲還在讀書是不是應該在30歲以下提高這個年齡\n209465\t213207\t他們三十歲以下還是年輕人啊,讓屋主能夠多聘用年輕人。二十四歲還在讀書啦,所以我們建議你們可以研議一下提高到三十歲以下好不好。\n230461\t234163\t三、本院委員賴士葆等19人擬具 «中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案》案。\n253592\t282176\t\n282335\t296483\t但是依照電業法49條來辦理這個立法院有監督行政單位我們的決議你並沒有辦法去尊重去執行的話那這樣子不是就是擺爛嗎?\n300877\t324573\t因為這個按照現在的電影法規定那確實我們的這個審議會也審議通過那4月1號也開始執行所以就這個相關的規範來講我們確實也應該因為我們立法代表民意的代表民意的代表就反映民意民意都需要我們政府能苦民所苦所以我們動掌了店家做出了決議我們行政權被你們這個行政單位來踐踏了\n328826\t336169\t事實上我們這一次的挑戰已經做了這個非常的限縮,所以我們在今天也會提到越來越佳意願。\n347281\t370551\t接下來我要跟你討論的就是部長在今年的3月22號特別我們桃園市政府針對於廢紙這三家SRF發電廠的這個廠商包括是我們的立方跟我們的柯林衛跟立江這三家進駐到桃園科技工業園區這個是我們經濟部\n374173\t395190\tadequate因為你們收回了推薦函所以我們師傅才會做出這個決定喔那這三家的SRF的專案啊入園就已經不完備了所以同時也表示廠商未來有可能會提出行政的救濟也就是訴訟來跟你對駁公堂齁那但是這一切的爭議起源的就是經濟部你的推薦函部長\n398157\t413475\t您是否還有印象,這三家SRF的電廠它的入園許可是因為你開了專案的會議,部長親自主持專案的會議,您還有印象嗎?\n414436\t417799\t我當然有印象,那對於這個用SRF讓這個事業廢棄物可以把它打包比較少的汙染,然後又可以解決事業廢棄物這一個部分,那這個都是有很仔細的考慮,而且這是按照目前的環境…那你現在為什麼收回推薦函呢?\n431471\t435495\t那因為在當時的部分我們是告訴桃園市政府說入園的許可是按照桃園市的相關的規範那經濟部是推薦那像委員講的這個是推薦那他沒有一個拘束力那所以在這個部分我們是認為讓這個事業廢棄物可以好好的來用所以我們經濟部的立場環境部的立場我們當然是推薦\n457395\t463220\t所以部長你的意思是說沒有法律效力沒有法律效力你幹嘛多此一舉來送這個推薦函還有政策的表述呢?那因為在當時討論的過程當中對於SRF的相關的這個效益的部分那確實我們有開會討論那認為這樣的除了去化四月廢棄物種它事實上也減少相關的污染那對於這個SRF\n482415\t499991\t\n500031\t527190\t而且這三家的入園許可跟前面兩家的建造還有它的排放權都是在鄭文燦時代一手促成的張善政一上任之後才會擋下第三家的這個建造而且最重要的是鄭文燦一開始是不同意的他不同意的話經發局那時候三家經發局在2018年2019年的時候都陸續發函給桃園市政府是否可以入園當時的市政府的經發局特別說\n528131\t549019\t\n549159\t572054\t最重要的是還有能源警發給他們的再生能源的發電設備同意備案的文件也就是這個設備的建造是同意的這個最後還在你12月23號的這一場會議中也決議要核發給這個備案同意的這個文件給這個廠商所以市政府是被動同意的\n573335\t578877\t應該不能這樣講齁就是說對能源局來講他有沒有符合這個SRF的相關的證照這個是我們本來中央局管就要去決定的那至於我們按照相關的現在再生能源法的規定按照環境部他對SRF要求的這個能效的部分我們是來做確認他有沒有符合告訴桃園市政府說這個這一些的部分按照中央的規範可不可\n601824\t605327\tadequate to the application of the draft law?\n627103\t646460\t所以現在因為是民意反彈民意不等支持因為有污染的餘力所以桃園市政府現在才把他擋下來那你們現在還一直發言說如果說沒有參考的必要性的話那我就收回這個推薦函最後就不用再表述了不用再參考了而且你讓他們\n649358\t673945\t來就決定這不是甩鍋啊當時不是你的專案會議你為什麼拍專案會議呢還要推薦函呢農業局還要發給他們的建造呢所以請現在廠商他未來可能會提出訴訟也請我們的經濟部你們要承擔下來這個責任不要讓我們的觀音人、桃園人來為你錯誤的能源政策來買單\n677298\t677318\t好謝謝\n","txt":"接下來我們請李玉玲委員請做詢答。謝謝。謝謝主席。請王部長。我們請部長。\n部長今天我們經濟委員會特別排了中小企業的發展條例的修正那因為我們看到整個我們中小企業的低薪問題非常的嚴重那尤其昨天是五一勞動節那我們也看到我們中小企業的白皮書上在2022年的台灣中小企業就有163萬家占全體的企業數98%那占了全部的\n賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：事由：審查：事由賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：事由賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：事由賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：事由賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：事由賴士葆等19人擬\n那我們尤其是在本席在去年的時候特別對中小企業發展條例的三十六條之二的第三項也有提出了這些建議就是說在連續這個六個月的這個失業率要達到百分之三點七八這一項我們看到你們這一次也特別在這前提之下也刪除了\n閱讀委員\n部長,你們準備好加強宣導,那未來會大概增加多少加來申請呢?\n是,那在我們這個加強宣導確實是一個很重要的一個配套。那這個我們一定會跟財政部一起來讓這個更多的中小企業知道這個好的措施。你們預估會增加多少?我們預估在修改之後那個新顧的這個部分呢可以增加這個331家然後有這個3900人的適用。那這個的稅務財稅的減損呢可以有7億多的這樣的一個\n賴主席。\n我們看到主計總數他在111年的統計收入裡面來看未滿30歲的話大概在53.6萬30到34歲的話在69.2萬那這個情形看了差距上我們是不是可以要提高年齡層不要在24歲以下24歲還在讀書是不是應該在30歲以下提高這個年齡\n他們三十歲以下還是年輕人啊,讓屋主能夠多聘用年輕人。二十四歲還在讀書啦,所以我們建議你們可以研議一下提高到三十歲以下好不好。\n三、本院委員賴士葆等19人擬具 «中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案》案。\n\n但是依照電業法49條來辦理這個立法院有監督行政單位我們的決議你並沒有辦法去尊重去執行的話那這樣子不是就是擺爛嗎?\n因為這個按照現在的電影法規定那確實我們的這個審議會也審議通過那4月1號也開始執行所以就這個相關的規範來講我們確實也應該因為我們立法代表民意的代表民意的代表就反映民意民意都需要我們政府能苦民所苦所以我們動掌了店家做出了決議我們行政權被你們這個行政單位來踐踏了\n事實上我們這一次的挑戰已經做了這個非常的限縮,所以我們在今天也會提到越來越佳意願。\n接下來我要跟你討論的就是部長在今年的3月22號特別我們桃園市政府針對於廢紙這三家SRF發電廠的這個廠商包括是我們的立方跟我們的柯林衛跟立江這三家進駐到桃園科技工業園區這個是我們經濟部\nadequate因為你們收回了推薦函所以我們師傅才會做出這個決定喔那這三家的SRF的專案啊入園就已經不完備了所以同時也表示廠商未來有可能會提出行政的救濟也就是訴訟來跟你對駁公堂齁那但是這一切的爭議起源的就是經濟部你的推薦函部長\n您是否還有印象,這三家SRF的電廠它的入園許可是因為你開了專案的會議,部長親自主持專案的會議,您還有印象嗎?\n我當然有印象,那對於這個用SRF讓這個事業廢棄物可以把它打包比較少的汙染,然後又可以解決事業廢棄物這一個部分,那這個都是有很仔細的考慮,而且這是按照目前的環境…那你現在為什麼收回推薦函呢?\n那因為在當時的部分我們是告訴桃園市政府說入園的許可是按照桃園市的相關的規範那經濟部是推薦那像委員講的這個是推薦那他沒有一個拘束力那所以在這個部分我們是認為讓這個事業廢棄物可以好好的來用所以我們經濟部的立場環境部的立場我們當然是推薦\n所以部長你的意思是說沒有法律效力沒有法律效力你幹嘛多此一舉來送這個推薦函還有政策的表述呢?那因為在當時討論的過程當中對於SRF的相關的這個效益的部分那確實我們有開會討論那認為這樣的除了去化四月廢棄物種它事實上也減少相關的污染那對於這個SRF\n\n而且這三家的入園許可跟前面兩家的建造還有它的排放權都是在鄭文燦時代一手促成的張善政一上任之後才會擋下第三家的這個建造而且最重要的是鄭文燦一開始是不同意的他不同意的話經發局那時候三家經發局在2018年2019年的時候都陸續發函給桃園市政府是否可以入園當時的市政府的經發局特別說\n\n最重要的是還有能源警發給他們的再生能源的發電設備同意備案的文件也就是這個設備的建造是同意的這個最後還在你12月23號的這一場會議中也決議要核發給這個備案同意的這個文件給這個廠商所以市政府是被動同意的\n應該不能這樣講齁就是說對能源局來講他有沒有符合這個SRF的相關的證照這個是我們本來中央局管就要去決定的那至於我們按照相關的現在再生能源法的規定按照環境部他對SRF要求的這個能效的部分我們是來做確認他有沒有符合告訴桃園市政府說這個這一些的部分按照中央的規範可不可\nadequate to the application of the draft law?\n所以現在因為是民意反彈民意不等支持因為有污染的餘力所以桃園市政府現在才把他擋下來那你們現在還一直發言說如果說沒有參考的必要性的話那我就收回這個推薦函最後就不用再表述了不用再參考了而且你讓他們\n來就決定這不是甩鍋啊當時不是你的專案會議你為什麼拍專案會議呢還要推薦函呢農業局還要發給他們的建造呢所以請現在廠商他未來可能會提出訴訟也請我們的經濟部你們要承擔下來這個責任不要讓我們的觀音人、桃園人來為你錯誤的能源政策來買單\n好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.430 --> 00:10.422\n接下來我們請李玉玲委員請做詢答。謝謝。謝謝主席。請王部長。我們請部長。\n\n00:18.783 --> 00:37.034\n部長今天我們經濟委員會特別排了中小企業的發展條例的修正那因為我們看到整個我們中小企業的低薪問題非常的嚴重那尤其昨天是五一勞動節那我們也看到我們中小企業的白皮書上在2022年的台灣中小企業就有163萬家占全體的企業數98%那占了全部的\n\n00:46.580 --> 01:01.212\n賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：事由：審查：事由賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：事由賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：事由賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：事由賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：事由賴士葆等19人擬\n\n01:16.483 --> 01:39.304\n那我們尤其是在本席在去年的時候特別對中小企業發展條例的三十六條之二的第三項也有提出了這些建議就是說在連續這個六個月的這個失業率要達到百分之三點七八這一項我們看到你們這一次也特別在這前提之下也刪除了\n\n01:40.245 --> 01:40.265\n閱讀委員\n\n02:06.158 --> 02:11.636\n部長,你們準備好加強宣導,那未來會大概增加多少加來申請呢?\n\n02:12.310 --> 02:17.073\n是,那在我們這個加強宣導確實是一個很重要的一個配套。那這個我們一定會跟財政部一起來讓這個更多的中小企業知道這個好的措施。你們預估會增加多少?我們預估在修改之後那個新顧的這個部分呢可以增加這個331家然後有這個3900人的適用。那這個的稅務財稅的減損呢可以有7億多的這樣的一個\n\n02:42.249 --> 02:42.290\n賴主席。\n\n03:04.611 --> 03:07.353\n我們看到主計總數他在111年的統計收入裡面來看未滿30歲的話大概在53.6萬30到34歲的話在69.2萬那這個情形看了差距上我們是不是可以要提高年齡層不要在24歲以下24歲還在讀書是不是應該在30歲以下提高這個年齡\n\n03:29.465 --> 03:33.207\n他們三十歲以下還是年輕人啊,讓屋主能夠多聘用年輕人。二十四歲還在讀書啦,所以我們建議你們可以研議一下提高到三十歲以下好不好。\n\n03:50.461 --> 03:54.163\n三、本院委員賴士葆等19人擬具«中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案》案。\n\n04:42.335 --> 04:56.483\n但是依照電業法49條來辦理這個立法院有監督行政單位我們的決議你並沒有辦法去尊重去執行的話那這樣子不是就是擺爛嗎?\n\n05:00.877 --> 05:24.573\n因為這個按照現在的電影法規定那確實我們的這個審議會也審議通過那4月1號也開始執行所以就這個相關的規範來講我們確實也應該因為我們立法代表民意的代表民意的代表就反映民意民意都需要我們政府能苦民所苦所以我們動掌了店家做出了決議我們行政權被你們這個行政單位來踐踏了\n\n05:28.826 --> 05:36.169\n事實上我們這一次的挑戰已經做了這個非常的限縮,所以我們在今天也會提到越來越佳意願。\n\n05:47.281 --> 06:10.551\n接下來我要跟你討論的就是部長在今年的3月22號特別我們桃園市政府針對於廢紙這三家SRF發電廠的這個廠商包括是我們的立方跟我們的柯林衛跟立江這三家進駐到桃園科技工業園區這個是我們經濟部\n\n06:14.173 --> 06:35.190\nadequate因為你們收回了推薦函所以我們師傅才會做出這個決定喔那這三家的SRF的專案啊入園就已經不完備了所以同時也表示廠商未來有可能會提出行政的救濟也就是訴訟來跟你對駁公堂齁那但是這一切的爭議起源的就是經濟部你的推薦函部長\n\n06:38.157 --> 06:53.475\n您是否還有印象,這三家SRF的電廠它的入園許可是因為你開了專案的會議,部長親自主持專案的會議,您還有印象嗎?\n\n06:54.436 --> 06:57.799\n我當然有印象,那對於這個用SRF讓這個事業廢棄物可以把它打包比較少的汙染,然後又可以解決事業廢棄物這一個部分,那這個都是有很仔細的考慮,而且這是按照目前的環境…那你現在為什麼收回推薦函呢?\n\n07:11.471 --> 07:15.495\n那因為在當時的部分我們是告訴桃園市政府說入園的許可是按照桃園市的相關的規範那經濟部是推薦那像委員講的這個是推薦那他沒有一個拘束力那所以在這個部分我們是認為讓這個事業廢棄物可以好好的來用所以我們經濟部的立場環境部的立場我們當然是推薦\n\n07:37.395 --> 07:43.220\n所以部長你的意思是說沒有法律效力沒有法律效力你幹嘛多此一舉來送這個推薦函還有政策的表述呢?那因為在當時討論的過程當中對於SRF的相關的這個效益的部分那確實我們有開會討論那認為這樣的除了去化四月廢棄物種它事實上也減少相關的污染那對於這個SRF\n\n08:20.031 --> 08:47.190\n而且這三家的入園許可跟前面兩家的建造還有它的排放權都是在鄭文燦時代一手促成的張善政一上任之後才會擋下第三家的這個建造而且最重要的是鄭文燦一開始是不同意的他不同意的話經發局那時候三家經發局在2018年2019年的時候都陸續發函給桃園市政府是否可以入園當時的市政府的經發局特別說\n\n09:09.159 --> 09:32.054\n最重要的是還有能源警發給他們的再生能源的發電設備同意備案的文件也就是這個設備的建造是同意的這個最後還在你12月23號的這一場會議中也決議要核發給這個備案同意的這個文件給這個廠商所以市政府是被動同意的\n\n09:33.335 --> 09:38.877\n應該不能這樣講齁就是說對能源局來講他有沒有符合這個SRF的相關的證照這個是我們本來中央局管就要去決定的那至於我們按照相關的現在再生能源法的規定按照環境部他對SRF要求的這個能效的部分我們是來做確認他有沒有符合告訴桃園市政府說這個這一些的部分按照中央的規範可不可\n\n10:01.824 --> 10:05.327\nadequatetotheapplicationofthedraftlaw?\n\n10:27.103 --> 10:46.460\n所以現在因為是民意反彈民意不等支持因為有污染的餘力所以桃園市政府現在才把他擋下來那你們現在還一直發言說如果說沒有參考的必要性的話那我就收回這個推薦函最後就不用再表述了不用再參考了而且你讓他們\n\n10:49.358 --> 11:13.945\n來就決定這不是甩鍋啊當時不是你的專案會議你為什麼拍專案會議呢還要推薦函呢農業局還要發給他們的建造呢所以請現在廠商他未來可能會提出訴訟也請我們的經濟部你們要承擔下來這個責任不要讓我們的觀音人、桃園人來為你錯誤的能源政策來買單\n\n11:17.298 --> 11:17.318\n好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.43,"end":10.422,"text":"接下來我們請李玉玲委員請做詢答。謝謝。謝謝主席。請王部長。我們請部長。"},{"start":18.783,"end":37.034,"text":"部長今天我們經濟委員會特別排了中小企業的發展條例的修正那因為我們看到整個我們中小企業的低薪問題非常的嚴重那尤其昨天是五一勞動節那我們也看到我們中小企業的白皮書上在2022年的台灣中小企業就有163萬家占全體的企業數98%那占了全部的"},{"start":46.58,"end":61.212,"text":"賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：事由：審查：事由賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：事由賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：事由賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：事由賴士葆等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案：事由賴士葆等19人擬"},{"start":76.483,"end":99.304,"text":"那我們尤其是在本席在去年的時候特別對中小企業發展條例的三十六條之二的第三項也有提出了這些建議就是說在連續這個六個月的這個失業率要達到百分之三點七八這一項我們看到你們這一次也特別在這前提之下也刪除了"},{"start":100.245,"end":100.265,"text":"閱讀委員"},{"start":126.158,"end":131.636,"text":"部長,你們準備好加強宣導,那未來會大概增加多少加來申請呢?"},{"start":132.31,"end":137.073,"text":"是,那在我們這個加強宣導確實是一個很重要的一個配套。那這個我們一定會跟財政部一起來讓這個更多的中小企業知道這個好的措施。你們預估會增加多少?我們預估在修改之後那個新顧的這個部分呢可以增加這個331家然後有這個3900人的適用。那這個的稅務財稅的減損呢可以有7億多的這樣的一個"},{"start":162.249,"end":162.29,"text":"賴主席。"},{"start":184.611,"end":187.353,"text":"我們看到主計總數他在111年的統計收入裡面來看未滿30歲的話大概在53.6萬30到34歲的話在69.2萬那這個情形看了差距上我們是不是可以要提高年齡層不要在24歲以下24歲還在讀書是不是應該在30歲以下提高這個年齡"},{"start":209.465,"end":213.207,"text":"他們三十歲以下還是年輕人啊,讓屋主能夠多聘用年輕人。二十四歲還在讀書啦,所以我們建議你們可以研議一下提高到三十歲以下好不好。"},{"start":230.461,"end":234.163,"text":"三、本院委員賴士葆等19人擬具 «中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":253.592,"end":282.176,"text":""},{"start":282.335,"end":296.483,"text":"但是依照電業法49條來辦理這個立法院有監督行政單位我們的決議你並沒有辦法去尊重去執行的話那這樣子不是就是擺爛嗎?"},{"start":300.877,"end":324.573,"text":"因為這個按照現在的電影法規定那確實我們的這個審議會也審議通過那4月1號也開始執行所以就這個相關的規範來講我們確實也應該因為我們立法代表民意的代表民意的代表就反映民意民意都需要我們政府能苦民所苦所以我們動掌了店家做出了決議我們行政權被你們這個行政單位來踐踏了"},{"start":328.826,"end":336.169,"text":"事實上我們這一次的挑戰已經做了這個非常的限縮,所以我們在今天也會提到越來越佳意願。"},{"start":347.281,"end":370.551,"text":"接下來我要跟你討論的就是部長在今年的3月22號特別我們桃園市政府針對於廢紙這三家SRF發電廠的這個廠商包括是我們的立方跟我們的柯林衛跟立江這三家進駐到桃園科技工業園區這個是我們經濟部"},{"start":374.173,"end":395.19,"text":"adequate因為你們收回了推薦函所以我們師傅才會做出這個決定喔那這三家的SRF的專案啊入園就已經不完備了所以同時也表示廠商未來有可能會提出行政的救濟也就是訴訟來跟你對駁公堂齁那但是這一切的爭議起源的就是經濟部你的推薦函部長"},{"start":398.157,"end":413.475,"text":"您是否還有印象,這三家SRF的電廠它的入園許可是因為你開了專案的會議,部長親自主持專案的會議,您還有印象嗎?"},{"start":414.436,"end":417.799,"text":"我當然有印象,那對於這個用SRF讓這個事業廢棄物可以把它打包比較少的汙染,然後又可以解決事業廢棄物這一個部分,那這個都是有很仔細的考慮,而且這是按照目前的環境…那你現在為什麼收回推薦函呢?"},{"start":431.471,"end":435.495,"text":"那因為在當時的部分我們是告訴桃園市政府說入園的許可是按照桃園市的相關的規範那經濟部是推薦那像委員講的這個是推薦那他沒有一個拘束力那所以在這個部分我們是認為讓這個事業廢棄物可以好好的來用所以我們經濟部的立場環境部的立場我們當然是推薦"},{"start":457.395,"end":463.22,"text":"所以部長你的意思是說沒有法律效力沒有法律效力你幹嘛多此一舉來送這個推薦函還有政策的表述呢?那因為在當時討論的過程當中對於SRF的相關的這個效益的部分那確實我們有開會討論那認為這樣的除了去化四月廢棄物種它事實上也減少相關的污染那對於這個SRF"},{"start":482.415,"end":499.991,"text":""},{"start":500.031,"end":527.19,"text":"而且這三家的入園許可跟前面兩家的建造還有它的排放權都是在鄭文燦時代一手促成的張善政一上任之後才會擋下第三家的這個建造而且最重要的是鄭文燦一開始是不同意的他不同意的話經發局那時候三家經發局在2018年2019年的時候都陸續發函給桃園市政府是否可以入園當時的市政府的經發局特別說"},{"start":528.131,"end":549.019,"text":""},{"start":549.159,"end":572.054,"text":"最重要的是還有能源警發給他們的再生能源的發電設備同意備案的文件也就是這個設備的建造是同意的這個最後還在你12月23號的這一場會議中也決議要核發給這個備案同意的這個文件給這個廠商所以市政府是被動同意的"},{"start":573.335,"end":578.877,"text":"應該不能這樣講齁就是說對能源局來講他有沒有符合這個SRF的相關的證照這個是我們本來中央局管就要去決定的那至於我們按照相關的現在再生能源法的規定按照環境部他對SRF要求的這個能效的部分我們是來做確認他有沒有符合告訴桃園市政府說這個這一些的部分按照中央的規範可不可"},{"start":601.824,"end":605.327,"text":"adequate to the application of the draft law?"},{"start":627.103,"end":646.46,"text":"所以現在因為是民意反彈民意不等支持因為有污染的餘力所以桃園市政府現在才把他擋下來那你們現在還一直發言說如果說沒有參考的必要性的話那我就收回這個推薦函最後就不用再表述了不用再參考了而且你讓他們"},{"start":649.358,"end":673.945,"text":"來就決定這不是甩鍋啊當時不是你的專案會議你為什麼拍專案會議呢還要推薦函呢農業局還要發給他們的建造呢所以請現在廠商他未來可能會提出訴訟也請我們的經濟部你們要承擔下來這個責任不要讓我們的觀音人、桃園人來為你錯誤的能源政策來買單"},{"start":677.298,"end":677.318,"text":"好謝謝"}]}}}}