{"id":152062,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152062","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6f015fe8e6787db1c2e49db559fb8c78e5dad6307223f0f855be169921a0a717343b689e4d41e2da5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葛如鈞","委員發言時間":"10:34:43 - 10:42:35","影片長度":"00:07:52","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查或處理「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第4期特別預算(112至113年度)」及「中央政府疫後強化經濟與社會韌性及全民共享經濟成果特別預算」決議：\n一、有關教育部主管預算凍結書面報告案4案。\n二、有關經濟部主管預算凍結書面報告案9案。\n三、有關交通部主管預算凍結書面報告案14案。\n四、有關行政院農業委員會主管預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n五、有關衛生福利部主管預算凍結書面報告案11案。\n六、有關文化部主管預算凍結書面報告案1案。\n七、有關數位發展部主管預算凍結書面報告案7案。\n八、有關原住民族委員會預算凍結書面報告案1案。\n九、有關內政部主管預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n十、有關行政院環境保護署預算凍結書面報告案1案。\n十一、有關國家科學及技術委員會主管預算凍結書面報告案2案。）","date":"2024-05-02","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[20,15,19,22,23,26],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-20,15,19,22,23,26-1"},"duration":472,"end_time":"2024-05-02T10:42:35+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-02T10:34:43+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":617,"blocks":[["葛委員如鈞：（10時34分）謝謝主席。有請交通部、教育部、數位部次長以及國科會副主委，謝謝。"],["主席：點名到的部會次長跟副主委請出列。"],["陳次長彥伯：委員好。"],["葛委員如鈞：四位次長好。最近有一則新聞在社群平臺引起許多阿宅跟民眾討論，就是有一款可以提前通報的地震app，因為通報率很高，引起民眾的注意，一週內被下載了30萬次。app爆紅以後，媒體追蹤發現開發者是17歲的高中生，被稱讚是一人贏過國家隊。雖然我個人並不一定同意這種過度天才化的描述方式，但是同學有心能做這樣的東西，應該是一個美談。但是因為他剛好漏了，未經授權就使用氣象署的數據，有違反氣象法的疑慮，以致於最後他必須不斷地進行道歉，在app道歉一次，又在媒體向全國民眾道歉。想請教交通部陳次長，氣象法第十八條確實有這樣的規定，但是那已經都執行很久了，近半年有沒有查到這些未經通報、未經授權引用數據的案件，有嗎？"],["陳次長彥伯：我跟委員報告，這一部分我手頭上現在沒有資料，是不是容許我……來提供給委員？"],["葛委員如鈞：希望去查一下，不要說是林同學出來了，我們就來調查林同學，他這麼長的時間，我們應該早就要發現了，不然的話，民眾可能會合理懷疑氣象署是不是怠忽職守，這個app已經上架快一年的時間，都沒有查到，等到媒體報導了一人贏過國家隊以後，你們就惱羞來調查。我們相信不是這樣，但希望證明給民眾看。","同時，我們也來看一下氣象署官方地震預報的app，裡面的平均評分只有兩顆星，滿分是五顆。民眾就說：奇怪了，為什麼民間做出來的，地震到達前就會示警；中央做出來的有時候卻不行？民眾反映有時候甚至會晚3到5分鐘。這些負面的評價不知道交通部有沒有看到？難道官方開發出來的app不夠好用，有人做出更好用的，那就解決這個更好用的人，那就變成官方的最好用。我相信不是，所以我們想要來提倡一下公私協力，我相信行政院各部會應該都是一個團隊，數位部次長在這裡，我們幫你們廣告一下，這就是近期你們宣傳的公共程式平臺code.gov.tw，為什麼我會這樣講？是因為我非常認同KNY台灣天氣地震速報app的開發者陳坤助先生的觀點，他說市場應該直接面對第一線民眾，尤其這樣個人化的服務，可能跟高階技術研發、系統建置都非常有關，對此可能是沒有民間單位擅長，因此公私協力非常重要。既然五花八門的這些東西又要耗費巨資，我們是不是來響應一下？希望可以響應這些open data、public code，我只是在幫你廣告，不用擔心。希望用這種方式，可能不只是「龍無bug」，還可以變得更加好用，希望可以響應一下，好不好？部會交流一下。交通部陳次長請回。","現在同時也是英雄出少年的時代，我們來看一下，2018年就有一個美國的女高中生聽到網路霸凌的消息，做了一個叫ReThink的鍵盤app，它會自己偵測不當字眼，提醒使用者多想3秒，希望能夠降低網路霸凌的問題。然後這個高中生、這個app的開發者人生因此發生轉變，不僅開了公司，上了電視節目，還在節目上受到投資人入股20%，其他例子我就不用講了，很多英雄出少年，包括明倫高中的高三生，教育部次長知道這個例子嗎？有沒有給予他鼓勵、有沒有嘉獎他、有沒有讓這個變成一個好的範例？"],["劉次長孟奇：這個我們回去再確認。"],["葛委員如鈞：是世界的比賽喔！這都是好的事情，但是到底有沒有相關的資助？想請教三位次長，假設有一位高中生要投入科技創新的研究，比如說開發一款app，未來可能來申請大學入學。請教教育部、數位部以及國科會，目前是否有相關的研究計畫補助可以申請？有還是沒有？"],["李次長懷仁：跟委員報告，基本上數位部本來就有針對新創的部分，特別是……"],["葛委員如鈞：高中生。"],["李次長懷仁：我們不限年齡。"],["葛委員如鈞：不限年齡，確定喔？"],["李次長懷仁：我們的case本來就不限年齡，只看成品。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，沒有關係。對此，到底有還是沒有，希望你們一個月內將研議結果以書面提供給本席，同時，也建請教育部去設立一個窗口，協助有興趣進行科研創新的高中職學生，提供他們包含政府資料授權的使用方法以及相關的政策跟法規面向的諮詢，並將研議結果於一個月內以書面提供給本席。"],["劉次長孟奇：沒問題。"],["葛委員如鈞：教育部劉次長、數位部李次長先請回。","接下來想請教副主委，今年1月9日全國人民都收到一則非常轟動的國家級警報，陳建仁院長甚至在當時質詢說：哎喲！飛彈來了。結果後來又改口說是看錯了。我們來看一下，我們在防災中心的網站上查詢，到今天為止，國防部依然還是只有飛彈相關的防空警報。請教副主委，為什麼當時這個與範本不符的訊息，可以從災防訊息廣播平臺CBE發送出去？難道之前沒有檢核機制嗎？"],["陳副主任委員宗權：跟委員報告，我們災防中心是一個平臺，而主管機關的範本是原來寫好……"],["葛委員如鈞：所以可以不用檢核就送出去，是不是？"],["陳副主任委員宗權：他們內部是有檢核……"],["葛委員如鈞：所以他們有檢核，你們這裡不檢核嗎？"],["陳副主任委員宗權：我們是一個平臺。"],["葛委員如鈞：事實上，你們的平臺測試維運運作作業第八項中，就有提到資通安全及訊息內容檢核的檢測作業，測試的時候要檢核，發送出去的時候不用嗎？後來國防部雖然更正的訊息寫launch vehicle，但是這兩則訊息，不管這一則還是那一則，不管是飛彈還是launch vehicle，全部都不在範本的樣態裡。其次，我們也看到告警的資料裡面，完全沒有看到關於missile訊息發布的紀錄；在民生示警公開資料平臺的訊息，1月9日是空的，1月9日這一天的訊息竟然在各個平臺有三種不同樣態，是不是要篡改歷史紀錄？還是到底是什麼原因？內部溝通流程到底是什麼？有沒有公文往來紀錄？到底發生什麼樣的事情？我們去考察的時候，跟我們說歷史資料可以下載，結果我們真的去使用的時候，只能下載7天內的。我想建議，這種公開的特殊情況，首先應該相互對比、檢核，再來如果有特殊狀況，考核、考量過程中的溝通紀錄、完整報告，都應該要提供出來，同時也應該依循程序建立新的訊息範本。在此，本席請國科會針對1月9日國防部警報事件的完整時間軸、歷史資料等，這中間有沒有會議、會議紀錄、公文、聯絡了誰、什麼樣的判斷、討論、程序依據等等，因為這已經是發生過的事情，請在3天內提供本席完整報告。本席以上建議，請1個月內研議改善作為，然後提供給本席，同時剛剛這些樣態也拜託整理一下，可以嗎？"],["陳副主任委員宗權：好，可以。"],["主席：好，謝謝葛如鈞委員的質詢。","緊接著請王鴻薇委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":122,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-20,15,19,22,23,26-1","speakers":["郭國文","林德福","陳亭妃","吳秉叡","賴士葆","萬美玲","洪孟楷","吳沛憶","葛如鈞","王鴻薇","李彥秀","蘇巧慧","林宜瑾","陳菁徽","陳培瑜","陳昭姿","陳玉珍","張宏陸","游顥","陳秀寳","鄭正鈐","羅廷瑋","徐富癸","黃秀芳","郭昱晴","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李昆澤","李坤城","陳素月","楊瓊瓔","羅明才","王世堅","黃健豪","王美惠","范雲","張雅琳","林月琴","王正旭","賴瑞隆","吳春城","徐欣瑩","鍾佳濱","邱志偉","顏寬恒","謝衣鳯","葉元之","蘇清泉","盧縣一","陳超明","李柏毅","林岱樺","劉建國","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","王育敏","牛煦庭","吳琪銘","蔡易餘","賴惠員"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-05-02"],"gazette_id":"1133901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查或處理「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第 4期特別預算(112至113年度)」及「中央政府疫後強\n化經濟與社會韌性及全民共享經濟成果特別預算」決議：一、有關教育部主管預算凍結書面報告\n案4案；二、有關經濟部主管預算凍結書面報告案9案；三、有關交通部主管預算凍結書面報告案\n14案；四、有關行政院農業委員會主管預算凍結書面報告案 3案；五、有關衛生福利部主管預算\n凍結書面報告案11案；六、有關文化部主管預算凍結書面報告案1案；七、有關數位發展部主管\n預算凍結書面報告案7案；八、有關原住民族委員會預算凍結書面報告案1案；九、有關內政部主\n管預算凍結書面報告案3案；十、有關行政院環境保護署預算凍結書面報告案1案；十一、有關國\n家科學及技術委員會主管預算凍結書面報告案2案","agenda_id":"1133901_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"152062","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152062","tool":"pyannote","id":"152062-pyannote"},"job_id":"XOMV8YtNjylvoIZB","queued_at":"2024-05-31 13:23:40","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 13:24:58","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152062"},{"time":"2024-05-31 13:24:59","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6f015fe8e6787db1c2e49db559fb8c78e5dad6307223f0f80065a9431e9c0d57933305da8cf473af5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-05-31 13:25:14","msg":"converting mp4 to 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00:00:27,435\n請到部會的次長跟副主委請出列好,四位次長好,最近有一則新聞在社群平台引起了許多的阿宅跟民眾討論有一款可以提前通報的這個地震APP因為通報率很高引起民眾的注意一週內被下載了30萬次APP爆紅以後媒體追蹤發現是17歲的高中生被稱讚是一人贏過國家隊\n\n2\n00:00:28,915 --> 00:00:54,209\n雖然我個人並不一定同意這種過度天才化的描述方式但是同學有心能做這樣的東西應該是一個美談但是因為剛好漏了未經授權使用氣象署的數據有違反氣象法的疑慮最後不斷地進行道歉在APP道歉一次在媒體向全國的民眾道歉想請教一下交通部的陳次長氣象法第18條確實有這樣的規定\n\n3\n00:00:56,750 --> 00:01:21,959\n但是,那已經都執行很久了,近半年有沒有查到這些未經通報、未經授權引用數據的案件,有嗎?我跟委員報告,這一部分我手頭上現在是沒有資料。希望去查一下,不要說是林同學出來了,我們就來調查林同學。那他這麼長的時間,我們應該要早就發現了,不然的話民眾可能會合理懷疑啊,西巷署是不是呆乎職守啊?\n\n4\n00:01:22,179 --> 00:01:40,599\n這個APP已經上架快一年的時間,都沒有查到,那媒體來報導了以後呢,一人贏過國家隊,腦兇,然後來調查,我覺得這,我們相信不是,但希望證明給民眾看。同時我們也來看一下氣象署官方的地震預報的APP,裡面的平均評分只有2顆星,滿分是5顆。\n\n5\n00:01:42,060 --> 00:01:59,051\n民眾說:「奇怪了,為什麼我們用民間做出來的,地震到達前就會示警,中央做出來卻有時候不行,民眾反應有時候會甚至晚3到5分鐘。」這些負面的評價,不知道交通部有沒有看到,難道官方開發出來的APP不夠好用?\n\n6\n00:01:59,691 --> 00:02:24,574\n有人做出更好用的那就解決這個更好用的人那就變成官方的最好用我相信不是所以我們想要來提倡一下公私協力我相信我們行政院各部份應該都是一個團隊那個數位部次長在這我們幫你們廣告一下這就是近期你們宣傳的公共城市平台code.gov.tw為什麼我會這樣講呢是因為我非常認同KNY\n\n7\n00:02:25,655 --> 00:02:44,022\n台灣天氣地震速報APP的開發者陳坤柱先生的觀點,說市場應該直接面對第一線民眾,尤其這樣個人化的服務可能跟高階技術的研發系統都非常有關,對此一定可能是沒有民間單位擅長,因此公私協力非常重要。\n\n8\n00:02:44,682 --> 00:03:02,002\n所以五花八門的這些東西又要耗費巨資,我們是不是來響應一下,希望可以響應這些opendata,publiccode,我只是在幫你廣告,不用擔心。希望用這種方式,可能不只是都沒有bug,還可以變得更加的好用。那請交通部陳次長請回。\n\n9\n00:03:03,863 --> 00:03:31,532\n希望可以響應一下好不好不會交流那現在呢同時也是英雄出少年的時代我們來看一下2018年呢就有一個美國的女孩子高中生聽到網路霸凌的消息做了一個叫Rethink的一個鍵盤APP他會自己偵測不當字眼提醒使用者多想三秒去解希望能夠降低這些網路霸凌的問題這個APP這個高中生的開發者人生發生轉變不僅開了公司上電視的節目\n\n10\n00:03:32,852 --> 00:03:59,046\n還在節目上面受到投資人入股20%其他例子我就不用講了很多英雄出少年了名人高中的高三生這個教育部次長知道這個例子嗎?有沒有給予鼓勵?有沒有嘉獎他?有沒有讓這個變成一個好的範例?這我們回去再確認世界喔!世界的比賽喔!那我們希望這都是好的事情但是呢我們到底有沒有一些相關的資助想請教一下三位次長\n\n11\n00:04:00,191 --> 00:04:14,397\n假設有一位高中生要投入科技創新的研究,比如說開發一款APP,未來可能來申請大學入學,請教一下教育部、數位部以及國會會,目前是否有關的研究計畫補助,可以申請有還是沒有?\n\n12\n00:04:16,379 --> 00:04:16,899\n對此希望能夠相關\n\n13\n00:04:30,998 --> 00:04:51,033\n但到底有還是沒有,一個月內將研議結果以書面提供為本席,同時也建請教育部去設立一個窗口,協助有興趣進行科研創新的高中職學生,提供他們包含政府資料授權的使用方法,以相關的政策跟法規面向的諮詢,並將研議結果於一個月內以書面提供為本席。\n\n14\n00:04:52,072 --> 00:04:55,974\n副主委,今年1月9日,全國人民都受到一則非常轟動的國家級警報。陳建仁院長甚至在當時質詢說:「哎喲,飛彈來了!」結果改口說是看錯了。我們來看一下,\n\n15\n00:05:12,282 --> 00:05:29,781\n這個我們在防災中心的網站上面查詢,到今天為止,國防部依然還是只有非但相關的防空警報。請教一下副主委,為什麼當時這個與範本不符的訊息,可以從災防訊息廣播平台CPE發送出去,難道這之前沒有檢核機制嗎?\n\n16\n00:05:31,491 --> 00:05:55,837\n跟委員報告,那這個是主管機關,那我們災防中心是一個平台,那主管機關他的範本是原來寫好的。所以他可以不用檢核就送出去了是不是?他們內部是有檢核。所以他們檢核,你們這裡不檢核嗎?我來看一下,事實上你們在平台測試維業運作作業裡面的第8項裡面,就有說知識通關安全及訊息內容檢核的檢測作業。\n\n17\n00:05:57,458 --> 00:06:18,159\n測試的時候要檢核,發送出去的時候不用嗎?後來國防部雖然更正了訊息寫launchvehicle,但是這兩則訊息,不管這一則還是那一則,不管是飛彈還是launchvehicle,全部都不在範本的樣態裡面。其次,我們也看到告警的資料裡面,也完全沒有這方面的,就是說,\n\n18\n00:06:18,819 --> 00:06:40,095\n我完全沒有看到關於MISO訊息發布的記錄我們在民生市井公開資料平台的訊息1月9號則是空的啦1月9號這一天的這個訊息竟然在各個平台有三種不同的樣態是不是要篡改歷史的記錄啊還是到底是什麼原因內部的溝通流程到底是什麼\n\n19\n00:06:40,635 --> 00:07:05,658\n有沒有公文往來的記錄到底發生了什麼樣的事情我們去考察的時候跟我們說歷史資料可以下載結果我們真的去用的時候只能下載7天我想要建議一下公開的這種特殊的情況首先應該要相互對比要檢核再來呢如果有特殊的狀況考核考量的過程當中的溝通記錄完整的報告都應該要提供出來\n\n20\n00:07:06,218 --> 00:07:33,079\n同時也應該依循程序建立新的訊息範本所以在此本席請國科會針對1月9號國防部警報事件的完整時間軸歷史資料中間有沒有會議記錄公文聯絡了誰、什麼樣的判斷討論程序依據等等請在因為這已經發生過請在三天內提供本席完整報告本席以上的建議請一個月內研議改善作為以後提供會便行\n\n21\n00:07:33,419 --> 00:07:41,367\n同時剛剛這些樣態都要拜託整理一下,可以嗎?好,可以,可以。好,謝謝葛路斌委員的諮詢,請接著請王洪瑋委員諮詢。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n189\t27435\t請到部會的次長跟副主委請出列好,四位次長好,最近有一則新聞在社群平台引起了許多的阿宅跟民眾討論有一款可以提前通報的這個地震APP因為通報率很高引起民眾的注意一週內被下載了30萬次APP爆紅以後媒體追蹤發現是17歲的高中生被稱讚是一人贏過國家隊\n28915\t54209\t雖然我個人並不一定同意這種過度天才化的描述方式但是同學有心能做這樣的東西應該是一個美談但是因為剛好漏了未經授權使用氣象署的數據有違反氣象法的疑慮最後不斷地進行道歉在APP道歉一次在媒體向全國的民眾道歉想請教一下交通部的陳次長氣象法第18條確實有這樣的規定\n56750\t81959\t但是,那已經都執行很久了,近半年有沒有查到這些未經通報、未經授權引用數據的案件,有嗎?我跟委員報告,這一部分我手頭上現在是沒有資料。希望去查一下,不要說是林同學出來了,我們就來調查林同學。那他這麼長的時間,我們應該要早就發現了,不然的話民眾可能會合理懷疑啊,西巷署是不是呆乎職守啊?\n82179\t100599\t這個APP已經上架快一年的時間,都沒有查到,那媒體來報導了以後呢,一人贏過國家隊,腦兇,然後來調查,我覺得這,我們相信不是,但希望證明給民眾看。同時我們也來看一下氣象署官方的地震預報的APP,裡面的平均評分只有2顆星,滿分是5顆。\n102060\t119051\t民眾說:「奇怪了,為什麼我們用民間做出來的,地震到達前就會示警,中央做出來卻有時候不行,民眾反應有時候會甚至晚3到5分鐘。」這些負面的評價,不知道交通部有沒有看到,難道官方開發出來的APP不夠好用?\n119691\t144574\t有人做出更好用的那就解決這個更好用的人那就變成官方的最好用我相信不是所以我們想要來提倡一下公私協力我相信我們行政院各部份應該都是一個團隊那個數位部次長在這我們幫你們廣告一下這就是近期你們宣傳的公共城市平台 code.gov.tw為什麼我會這樣講呢是因為我非常認同KNY\n145655\t164022\t台灣天氣地震速報APP的開發者陳坤柱先生的觀點,說市場應該直接面對第一線民眾,尤其這樣個人化的服務可能跟高階技術的研發系統都非常有關,對此一定可能是沒有民間單位擅長,因此公私協力非常重要。\n164682\t182002\t所以五花八門的這些東西又要耗費巨資,我們是不是來響應一下,希望可以響應這些open data,public code,我只是在幫你廣告,不用擔心。希望用這種方式,可能不只是都沒有bug,還可以變得更加的好用。那請交通部陳次長請回。\n183863\t211532\t希望可以響應一下好不好不會交流那現在呢同時也是英雄出少年的時代我們來看一下2018年呢就有一個美國的女孩子高中生聽到網路霸凌的消息做了一個叫Rethink的一個鍵盤APP他會自己偵測不當字眼提醒使用者多想三秒去解希望能夠降低這些網路霸凌的問題這個APP這個高中生的開發者人生發生轉變不僅開了公司上電視的節目\n212852\t239046\t還在節目上面受到投資人入股20%其他例子我就不用講了很多英雄出少年了名人高中的高三生這個教育部次長知道這個例子嗎?有沒有給予鼓勵?有沒有嘉獎他?有沒有讓這個變成一個好的範例?這我們回去再確認世界喔!世界的比賽喔!那我們希望這都是好的事情但是呢我們到底有沒有一些相關的資助想請教一下三位次長\n240191\t254397\t假設有一位高中生要投入科技創新的研究,比如說開發一款APP,未來可能來申請大學入學,請教一下教育部、數位部以及國會會,目前是否有關的研究計畫補助,可以申請有還是沒有?\n256379\t256899\t對此希望能夠相關\n270998\t291033\t但到底有還是沒有,一個月內將研議結果以書面提供為本席,同時也建請教育部去設立一個窗口,協助有興趣進行科研創新的高中職學生,提供他們包含政府資料授權的使用方法,以相關的政策跟法規面向的諮詢,並將研議結果於一個月內以書面提供為本席。\n292072\t295974\t副主委,今年1月9日,全國人民都受到一則非常轟動的國家級警報。陳建仁院長甚至在當時質詢說:「哎喲,飛彈來了!」結果改口說是看錯了。我們來看一下,\n312282\t329781\t這個我們在防災中心的網站上面查詢,到今天為止,國防部依然還是只有非但相關的防空警報。請教一下副主委,為什麼當時這個與範本不符的訊息,可以從災防訊息廣播平台CPE發送出去,難道這之前沒有檢核機制嗎?\n331491\t355837\t跟委員報告,那這個是主管機關,那我們災防中心是一個平台,那主管機關他的範本是原來寫好的。所以他可以不用檢核就送出去了是不是?他們內部是有檢核。所以他們檢核,你們這裡不檢核嗎?我來看一下,事實上你們在平台測試維業運作作業裡面的第8項裡面,就有說知識通關安全及訊息內容檢核的檢測作業。\n357458\t378159\t測試的時候要檢核,發送出去的時候不用嗎?後來國防部雖然更正了訊息寫launch vehicle,但是這兩則訊息,不管這一則還是那一則,不管是飛彈還是launch vehicle,全部都不在範本的樣態裡面。其次,我們也看到告警的資料裡面,也完全沒有這方面的,就是說,\n378819\t400095\t我完全沒有看到關於MISO訊息發布的記錄我們在民生市井公開資料平台的訊息1月9號則是空的啦1月9號這一天的這個訊息竟然在各個平台有三種不同的樣態是不是要篡改歷史的記錄啊還是到底是什麼原因內部的溝通流程到底是什麼\n400635\t425658\t有沒有公文往來的記錄到底發生了什麼樣的事情我們去考察的時候跟我們說歷史資料可以下載結果我們真的去用的時候只能下載7天我想要建議一下公開的這種特殊的情況首先應該要相互對比要檢核再來呢如果有特殊的狀況考核考量的過程當中的溝通記錄完整的報告都應該要提供出來\n426218\t453079\t同時也應該依循程序建立新的訊息範本所以在此本席請國科會針對1月9號國防部警報事件的完整時間軸歷史資料中間有沒有會議記錄公文聯絡了誰、什麼樣的判斷討論程序依據等等請在因為這已經發生過請在三天內提供本席完整報告本席以上的建議請一個月內研議改善作為以後提供會便行\n453419\t461367\t同時剛剛這些樣態都要拜託整理一下,可以嗎?好,可以,可以。好,謝謝葛路斌委員的諮詢,請接著請王洪瑋委員諮詢。\n","txt":"請到部會的次長跟副主委請出列好,四位次長好,最近有一則新聞在社群平台引起了許多的阿宅跟民眾討論有一款可以提前通報的這個地震APP因為通報率很高引起民眾的注意一週內被下載了30萬次APP爆紅以後媒體追蹤發現是17歲的高中生被稱讚是一人贏過國家隊\n雖然我個人並不一定同意這種過度天才化的描述方式但是同學有心能做這樣的東西應該是一個美談但是因為剛好漏了未經授權使用氣象署的數據有違反氣象法的疑慮最後不斷地進行道歉在APP道歉一次在媒體向全國的民眾道歉想請教一下交通部的陳次長氣象法第18條確實有這樣的規定\n但是,那已經都執行很久了,近半年有沒有查到這些未經通報、未經授權引用數據的案件,有嗎?我跟委員報告,這一部分我手頭上現在是沒有資料。希望去查一下,不要說是林同學出來了,我們就來調查林同學。那他這麼長的時間,我們應該要早就發現了,不然的話民眾可能會合理懷疑啊,西巷署是不是呆乎職守啊?\n這個APP已經上架快一年的時間,都沒有查到,那媒體來報導了以後呢,一人贏過國家隊,腦兇,然後來調查,我覺得這,我們相信不是,但希望證明給民眾看。同時我們也來看一下氣象署官方的地震預報的APP,裡面的平均評分只有2顆星,滿分是5顆。\n民眾說:「奇怪了,為什麼我們用民間做出來的,地震到達前就會示警,中央做出來卻有時候不行,民眾反應有時候會甚至晚3到5分鐘。」這些負面的評價,不知道交通部有沒有看到,難道官方開發出來的APP不夠好用?\n有人做出更好用的那就解決這個更好用的人那就變成官方的最好用我相信不是所以我們想要來提倡一下公私協力我相信我們行政院各部份應該都是一個團隊那個數位部次長在這我們幫你們廣告一下這就是近期你們宣傳的公共城市平台 code.gov.tw為什麼我會這樣講呢是因為我非常認同KNY\n台灣天氣地震速報APP的開發者陳坤柱先生的觀點,說市場應該直接面對第一線民眾,尤其這樣個人化的服務可能跟高階技術的研發系統都非常有關,對此一定可能是沒有民間單位擅長,因此公私協力非常重要。\n所以五花八門的這些東西又要耗費巨資,我們是不是來響應一下,希望可以響應這些open data,public code,我只是在幫你廣告,不用擔心。希望用這種方式,可能不只是都沒有bug,還可以變得更加的好用。那請交通部陳次長請回。\n希望可以響應一下好不好不會交流那現在呢同時也是英雄出少年的時代我們來看一下2018年呢就有一個美國的女孩子高中生聽到網路霸凌的消息做了一個叫Rethink的一個鍵盤APP他會自己偵測不當字眼提醒使用者多想三秒去解希望能夠降低這些網路霸凌的問題這個APP這個高中生的開發者人生發生轉變不僅開了公司上電視的節目\n還在節目上面受到投資人入股20%其他例子我就不用講了很多英雄出少年了名人高中的高三生這個教育部次長知道這個例子嗎?有沒有給予鼓勵?有沒有嘉獎他?有沒有讓這個變成一個好的範例?這我們回去再確認世界喔!世界的比賽喔!那我們希望這都是好的事情但是呢我們到底有沒有一些相關的資助想請教一下三位次長\n假設有一位高中生要投入科技創新的研究,比如說開發一款APP,未來可能來申請大學入學,請教一下教育部、數位部以及國會會,目前是否有關的研究計畫補助,可以申請有還是沒有?\n對此希望能夠相關\n但到底有還是沒有,一個月內將研議結果以書面提供為本席,同時也建請教育部去設立一個窗口,協助有興趣進行科研創新的高中職學生,提供他們包含政府資料授權的使用方法,以相關的政策跟法規面向的諮詢,並將研議結果於一個月內以書面提供為本席。\n副主委,今年1月9日,全國人民都受到一則非常轟動的國家級警報。陳建仁院長甚至在當時質詢說:「哎喲,飛彈來了!」結果改口說是看錯了。我們來看一下,\n這個我們在防災中心的網站上面查詢,到今天為止,國防部依然還是只有非但相關的防空警報。請教一下副主委,為什麼當時這個與範本不符的訊息,可以從災防訊息廣播平台CPE發送出去,難道這之前沒有檢核機制嗎?\n跟委員報告,那這個是主管機關,那我們災防中心是一個平台,那主管機關他的範本是原來寫好的。所以他可以不用檢核就送出去了是不是?他們內部是有檢核。所以他們檢核,你們這裡不檢核嗎?我來看一下,事實上你們在平台測試維業運作作業裡面的第8項裡面,就有說知識通關安全及訊息內容檢核的檢測作業。\n測試的時候要檢核,發送出去的時候不用嗎?後來國防部雖然更正了訊息寫launch vehicle,但是這兩則訊息,不管這一則還是那一則,不管是飛彈還是launch vehicle,全部都不在範本的樣態裡面。其次,我們也看到告警的資料裡面,也完全沒有這方面的,就是說,\n我完全沒有看到關於MISO訊息發布的記錄我們在民生市井公開資料平台的訊息1月9號則是空的啦1月9號這一天的這個訊息竟然在各個平台有三種不同的樣態是不是要篡改歷史的記錄啊還是到底是什麼原因內部的溝通流程到底是什麼\n有沒有公文往來的記錄到底發生了什麼樣的事情我們去考察的時候跟我們說歷史資料可以下載結果我們真的去用的時候只能下載7天我想要建議一下公開的這種特殊的情況首先應該要相互對比要檢核再來呢如果有特殊的狀況考核考量的過程當中的溝通記錄完整的報告都應該要提供出來\n同時也應該依循程序建立新的訊息範本所以在此本席請國科會針對1月9號國防部警報事件的完整時間軸歷史資料中間有沒有會議記錄公文聯絡了誰、什麼樣的判斷討論程序依據等等請在因為這已經發生過請在三天內提供本席完整報告本席以上的建議請一個月內研議改善作為以後提供會便行\n同時剛剛這些樣態都要拜託整理一下,可以嗎?好,可以,可以。好,謝謝葛路斌委員的諮詢,請接著請王洪瑋委員諮詢。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.189 --> 00:27.435\n請到部會的次長跟副主委請出列好,四位次長好,最近有一則新聞在社群平台引起了許多的阿宅跟民眾討論有一款可以提前通報的這個地震APP因為通報率很高引起民眾的注意一週內被下載了30萬次APP爆紅以後媒體追蹤發現是17歲的高中生被稱讚是一人贏過國家隊\n\n00:28.915 --> 00:54.209\n雖然我個人並不一定同意這種過度天才化的描述方式但是同學有心能做這樣的東西應該是一個美談但是因為剛好漏了未經授權使用氣象署的數據有違反氣象法的疑慮最後不斷地進行道歉在APP道歉一次在媒體向全國的民眾道歉想請教一下交通部的陳次長氣象法第18條確實有這樣的規定\n\n00:56.750 --> 01:21.959\n但是,那已經都執行很久了,近半年有沒有查到這些未經通報、未經授權引用數據的案件,有嗎?我跟委員報告,這一部分我手頭上現在是沒有資料。希望去查一下,不要說是林同學出來了,我們就來調查林同學。那他這麼長的時間,我們應該要早就發現了,不然的話民眾可能會合理懷疑啊,西巷署是不是呆乎職守啊?\n\n01:22.179 --> 01:40.599\n這個APP已經上架快一年的時間,都沒有查到,那媒體來報導了以後呢,一人贏過國家隊,腦兇,然後來調查,我覺得這,我們相信不是,但希望證明給民眾看。同時我們也來看一下氣象署官方的地震預報的APP,裡面的平均評分只有2顆星,滿分是5顆。\n\n01:42.060 --> 01:59.051\n民眾說:「奇怪了,為什麼我們用民間做出來的,地震到達前就會示警,中央做出來卻有時候不行,民眾反應有時候會甚至晚3到5分鐘。」這些負面的評價,不知道交通部有沒有看到,難道官方開發出來的APP不夠好用?\n\n01:59.691 --> 02:24.574\n有人做出更好用的那就解決這個更好用的人那就變成官方的最好用我相信不是所以我們想要來提倡一下公私協力我相信我們行政院各部份應該都是一個團隊那個數位部次長在這我們幫你們廣告一下這就是近期你們宣傳的公共城市平台code.gov.tw為什麼我會這樣講呢是因為我非常認同KNY\n\n02:25.655 --> 02:44.022\n台灣天氣地震速報APP的開發者陳坤柱先生的觀點,說市場應該直接面對第一線民眾,尤其這樣個人化的服務可能跟高階技術的研發系統都非常有關,對此一定可能是沒有民間單位擅長,因此公私協力非常重要。\n\n02:44.682 --> 03:02.002\n所以五花八門的這些東西又要耗費巨資,我們是不是來響應一下,希望可以響應這些opendata,publiccode,我只是在幫你廣告,不用擔心。希望用這種方式,可能不只是都沒有bug,還可以變得更加的好用。那請交通部陳次長請回。\n\n03:03.863 --> 03:31.532\n希望可以響應一下好不好不會交流那現在呢同時也是英雄出少年的時代我們來看一下2018年呢就有一個美國的女孩子高中生聽到網路霸凌的消息做了一個叫Rethink的一個鍵盤APP他會自己偵測不當字眼提醒使用者多想三秒去解希望能夠降低這些網路霸凌的問題這個APP這個高中生的開發者人生發生轉變不僅開了公司上電視的節目\n\n03:32.852 --> 03:59.046\n還在節目上面受到投資人入股20%其他例子我就不用講了很多英雄出少年了名人高中的高三生這個教育部次長知道這個例子嗎?有沒有給予鼓勵?有沒有嘉獎他?有沒有讓這個變成一個好的範例?這我們回去再確認世界喔!世界的比賽喔!那我們希望這都是好的事情但是呢我們到底有沒有一些相關的資助想請教一下三位次長\n\n04:00.191 --> 04:14.397\n假設有一位高中生要投入科技創新的研究,比如說開發一款APP,未來可能來申請大學入學,請教一下教育部、數位部以及國會會,目前是否有關的研究計畫補助,可以申請有還是沒有?\n\n04:16.379 --> 04:16.899\n對此希望能夠相關\n\n04:30.998 --> 04:51.033\n但到底有還是沒有,一個月內將研議結果以書面提供為本席,同時也建請教育部去設立一個窗口,協助有興趣進行科研創新的高中職學生,提供他們包含政府資料授權的使用方法,以相關的政策跟法規面向的諮詢,並將研議結果於一個月內以書面提供為本席。\n\n04:52.072 --> 04:55.974\n副主委,今年1月9日,全國人民都受到一則非常轟動的國家級警報。陳建仁院長甚至在當時質詢說:「哎喲,飛彈來了!」結果改口說是看錯了。我們來看一下,\n\n05:12.282 --> 05:29.781\n這個我們在防災中心的網站上面查詢,到今天為止,國防部依然還是只有非但相關的防空警報。請教一下副主委,為什麼當時這個與範本不符的訊息,可以從災防訊息廣播平台CPE發送出去,難道這之前沒有檢核機制嗎?\n\n05:31.491 --> 05:55.837\n跟委員報告,那這個是主管機關,那我們災防中心是一個平台,那主管機關他的範本是原來寫好的。所以他可以不用檢核就送出去了是不是?他們內部是有檢核。所以他們檢核,你們這裡不檢核嗎?我來看一下,事實上你們在平台測試維業運作作業裡面的第8項裡面,就有說知識通關安全及訊息內容檢核的檢測作業。\n\n05:57.458 --> 06:18.159\n測試的時候要檢核,發送出去的時候不用嗎?後來國防部雖然更正了訊息寫launchvehicle,但是這兩則訊息,不管這一則還是那一則,不管是飛彈還是launchvehicle,全部都不在範本的樣態裡面。其次,我們也看到告警的資料裡面,也完全沒有這方面的,就是說,\n\n06:18.819 --> 06:40.095\n我完全沒有看到關於MISO訊息發布的記錄我們在民生市井公開資料平台的訊息1月9號則是空的啦1月9號這一天的這個訊息竟然在各個平台有三種不同的樣態是不是要篡改歷史的記錄啊還是到底是什麼原因內部的溝通流程到底是什麼\n\n06:40.635 --> 07:05.658\n有沒有公文往來的記錄到底發生了什麼樣的事情我們去考察的時候跟我們說歷史資料可以下載結果我們真的去用的時候只能下載7天我想要建議一下公開的這種特殊的情況首先應該要相互對比要檢核再來呢如果有特殊的狀況考核考量的過程當中的溝通記錄完整的報告都應該要提供出來\n\n07:06.218 --> 07:33.079\n同時也應該依循程序建立新的訊息範本所以在此本席請國科會針對1月9號國防部警報事件的完整時間軸歷史資料中間有沒有會議記錄公文聯絡了誰、什麼樣的判斷討論程序依據等等請在因為這已經發生過請在三天內提供本席完整報告本席以上的建議請一個月內研議改善作為以後提供會便行\n\n07:33.419 --> 07:41.367\n同時剛剛這些樣態都要拜託整理一下,可以嗎?好,可以,可以。好,謝謝葛路斌委員的諮詢,請接著請王洪瑋委員諮詢。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.189,"end":27.435,"text":"請到部會的次長跟副主委請出列好,四位次長好,最近有一則新聞在社群平台引起了許多的阿宅跟民眾討論有一款可以提前通報的這個地震APP因為通報率很高引起民眾的注意一週內被下載了30萬次APP爆紅以後媒體追蹤發現是17歲的高中生被稱讚是一人贏過國家隊"},{"start":28.915,"end":54.209,"text":"雖然我個人並不一定同意這種過度天才化的描述方式但是同學有心能做這樣的東西應該是一個美談但是因為剛好漏了未經授權使用氣象署的數據有違反氣象法的疑慮最後不斷地進行道歉在APP道歉一次在媒體向全國的民眾道歉想請教一下交通部的陳次長氣象法第18條確實有這樣的規定"},{"start":56.75,"end":81.959,"text":"但是,那已經都執行很久了,近半年有沒有查到這些未經通報、未經授權引用數據的案件,有嗎?我跟委員報告,這一部分我手頭上現在是沒有資料。希望去查一下,不要說是林同學出來了,我們就來調查林同學。那他這麼長的時間,我們應該要早就發現了,不然的話民眾可能會合理懷疑啊,西巷署是不是呆乎職守啊?"},{"start":82.179,"end":100.599,"text":"這個APP已經上架快一年的時間,都沒有查到,那媒體來報導了以後呢,一人贏過國家隊,腦兇,然後來調查,我覺得這,我們相信不是,但希望證明給民眾看。同時我們也來看一下氣象署官方的地震預報的APP,裡面的平均評分只有2顆星,滿分是5顆。"},{"start":102.06,"end":119.051,"text":"民眾說:「奇怪了,為什麼我們用民間做出來的,地震到達前就會示警,中央做出來卻有時候不行,民眾反應有時候會甚至晚3到5分鐘。」這些負面的評價,不知道交通部有沒有看到,難道官方開發出來的APP不夠好用?"},{"start":119.691,"end":144.574,"text":"有人做出更好用的那就解決這個更好用的人那就變成官方的最好用我相信不是所以我們想要來提倡一下公私協力我相信我們行政院各部份應該都是一個團隊那個數位部次長在這我們幫你們廣告一下這就是近期你們宣傳的公共城市平台 code.gov.tw為什麼我會這樣講呢是因為我非常認同KNY"},{"start":145.655,"end":164.022,"text":"台灣天氣地震速報APP的開發者陳坤柱先生的觀點,說市場應該直接面對第一線民眾,尤其這樣個人化的服務可能跟高階技術的研發系統都非常有關,對此一定可能是沒有民間單位擅長,因此公私協力非常重要。"},{"start":164.682,"end":182.002,"text":"所以五花八門的這些東西又要耗費巨資,我們是不是來響應一下,希望可以響應這些open data,public code,我只是在幫你廣告,不用擔心。希望用這種方式,可能不只是都沒有bug,還可以變得更加的好用。那請交通部陳次長請回。"},{"start":183.863,"end":211.532,"text":"希望可以響應一下好不好不會交流那現在呢同時也是英雄出少年的時代我們來看一下2018年呢就有一個美國的女孩子高中生聽到網路霸凌的消息做了一個叫Rethink的一個鍵盤APP他會自己偵測不當字眼提醒使用者多想三秒去解希望能夠降低這些網路霸凌的問題這個APP這個高中生的開發者人生發生轉變不僅開了公司上電視的節目"},{"start":212.852,"end":239.046,"text":"還在節目上面受到投資人入股20%其他例子我就不用講了很多英雄出少年了名人高中的高三生這個教育部次長知道這個例子嗎?有沒有給予鼓勵?有沒有嘉獎他?有沒有讓這個變成一個好的範例?這我們回去再確認世界喔!世界的比賽喔!那我們希望這都是好的事情但是呢我們到底有沒有一些相關的資助想請教一下三位次長"},{"start":240.191,"end":254.397,"text":"假設有一位高中生要投入科技創新的研究,比如說開發一款APP,未來可能來申請大學入學,請教一下教育部、數位部以及國會會,目前是否有關的研究計畫補助,可以申請有還是沒有?"},{"start":256.379,"end":256.899,"text":"對此希望能夠相關"},{"start":270.998,"end":291.033,"text":"但到底有還是沒有,一個月內將研議結果以書面提供為本席,同時也建請教育部去設立一個窗口,協助有興趣進行科研創新的高中職學生,提供他們包含政府資料授權的使用方法,以相關的政策跟法規面向的諮詢,並將研議結果於一個月內以書面提供為本席。"},{"start":292.072,"end":295.974,"text":"副主委,今年1月9日,全國人民都受到一則非常轟動的國家級警報。陳建仁院長甚至在當時質詢說:「哎喲,飛彈來了!」結果改口說是看錯了。我們來看一下,"},{"start":312.282,"end":329.781,"text":"這個我們在防災中心的網站上面查詢,到今天為止,國防部依然還是只有非但相關的防空警報。請教一下副主委,為什麼當時這個與範本不符的訊息,可以從災防訊息廣播平台CPE發送出去,難道這之前沒有檢核機制嗎?"},{"start":331.491,"end":355.837,"text":"跟委員報告,那這個是主管機關,那我們災防中心是一個平台,那主管機關他的範本是原來寫好的。所以他可以不用檢核就送出去了是不是?他們內部是有檢核。所以他們檢核,你們這裡不檢核嗎?我來看一下,事實上你們在平台測試維業運作作業裡面的第8項裡面,就有說知識通關安全及訊息內容檢核的檢測作業。"},{"start":357.458,"end":378.159,"text":"測試的時候要檢核,發送出去的時候不用嗎?後來國防部雖然更正了訊息寫launch vehicle,但是這兩則訊息,不管這一則還是那一則,不管是飛彈還是launch vehicle,全部都不在範本的樣態裡面。其次,我們也看到告警的資料裡面,也完全沒有這方面的,就是說,"},{"start":378.819,"end":400.095,"text":"我完全沒有看到關於MISO訊息發布的記錄我們在民生市井公開資料平台的訊息1月9號則是空的啦1月9號這一天的這個訊息竟然在各個平台有三種不同的樣態是不是要篡改歷史的記錄啊還是到底是什麼原因內部的溝通流程到底是什麼"},{"start":400.635,"end":425.658,"text":"有沒有公文往來的記錄到底發生了什麼樣的事情我們去考察的時候跟我們說歷史資料可以下載結果我們真的去用的時候只能下載7天我想要建議一下公開的這種特殊的情況首先應該要相互對比要檢核再來呢如果有特殊的狀況考核考量的過程當中的溝通記錄完整的報告都應該要提供出來"},{"start":426.218,"end":453.079,"text":"同時也應該依循程序建立新的訊息範本所以在此本席請國科會針對1月9號國防部警報事件的完整時間軸歷史資料中間有沒有會議記錄公文聯絡了誰、什麼樣的判斷討論程序依據等等請在因為這已經發生過請在三天內提供本席完整報告本席以上的建議請一個月內研議改善作為以後提供會便行"},{"start":453.419,"end":461.367,"text":"同時剛剛這些樣態都要拜託整理一下,可以嗎?好,可以,可以。好,謝謝葛路斌委員的諮詢,請接著請王洪瑋委員諮詢。"}]}}}}