{"id":152068,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152068","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6f015fe8e6787db180191d07c2422c04e12ebde737ab3c1955be169921a0a717256103802437d2e25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"11:01:07 - 11:10:47","影片長度":"00:09:40","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：審查：\n一、行政院函請審議「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、本院委員柯志恩等17人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n三、本院委員賴士葆等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n四、本院委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n五、本院委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「中小企業發展條例增訂第三十六條之四條文草案」案。\n六、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n七、本院國民黨黨團擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n八、本院委員張智倫等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十五條、第三十六條之二及第四十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、本院委員王世堅等16人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十五條、第三十六條之二及第四十條條文修正草案」案。\n十、本院委員郭國文等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n十一、本院委員邱議瑩等29人擬具「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（詢答及處理，委員郭國文等人提案如未接獲議事處來函則不予審查）【4月29日、5月1日及2日三天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-02","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-10"},"duration":580,"end_time":"2024-05-02T11:10:47+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-02T11:01:07+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":460,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（11時1分）謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言，邀請我們部長。"],["主席：請王部長。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長好。部長，本席跟你在這裡討論過很多次，我個人也認為你是非常地支持我們中小企業，是嗎？"],["王部長美花：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因此，我們也希望依照既定成功的這個軌道，繼續來支持中小企業。"],["王部長美花：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你拚命在點頭，所以我們繼續來討論。我們也知道受僱人員報酬占GDP的比率，1990年是51.04%，之後的規模就不斷在縮小，顯示勞動者在經濟成長果實的分享，它的比重是一直在萎縮，你同意這個論點嗎？"],["王部長美花：這個其實是跟整個國家的發展狀態有一點不太一樣。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，有一點不太一樣，我要告訴你，我們一直在說不管是經濟部的預算、工業局的預算，相關中小企業我們要多分配，用「分配」兩個字其實是對中小企業非常不禮貌，但是我們已經卑微地要求要好好地照顧中小企業，你應該可以認同這個觀念吧？"],["王部長美花：是，所以我們有非常多的政策，對中小企業怎麼樣協助、怎麼樣補助，我們都有很多的政策。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：根據主計總處的失業率資料，我們從年齡結構來看，年齡在24歲以下的失業率是第1名，最高，其次是25到29歲，那你為了要怎麼樣有效來降低年輕人的失業率，協助年輕人、協助企業，所以我們理當要從根源開始，你認不認同這個觀念？"],["王部長美花：這就是為什麼我們對24歲以下，覺得要給它加成減除的原因。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，加成減除到目前為止，給你的答案就是如此，還是這麼嚴重！第1名還是一樣是24歲，第2名還是一樣是25到29歲，表示你的政策是有調整的必要，你認不認同？要不要調整？"],["王部長美花：謝謝委員，我們……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：要不要調整？要不要調整？"],["王部長美花：我們其實是跨部會去看數據才提出來的草案。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，要不要調整？"],["王部長美花：我們尊重委員的意見，但是我們……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：尊重我們的意見，那你就是要調整啊！"],["王部長美花：我們提出來的數據……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為我們授權給行政部門在做，但是答案是達不到人民的需求，那行政部門應該是有為啊！有為什麼？有為去調整你的政策，同不同意這樣的觀念？"],["王部長美花：我們等一下討論的時候……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：同不同意這樣的觀念？"],["王部長美花：會跟委員再做說明。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是，當你的KPI達不到的時候，也不滿意的時候，你要不要調整你的政策方向？要不要？"],["王部長美花：我們當然會去注意相關KPI的部分。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：要不要調整？注意，要不要調整？要不要調整？"],["王部長美花：在法律的規定，我們有相關的設計……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：在法律的規定，法可以修啊！"],["王部長美花：除此之外，在勞動部……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：法可以修啊！要不要調整？請你告訴我，因為你如果都不調整，那我們就不用談啦！你如果要調整，我們好好來談，這是一個觀念的問題。再一次請教，當你的KPI達不到社會上的需求的時候，我們要不要就目前的政策來做調整？請教部長。"],["王部長美花：事實上委員提的這一些數據，我們原來都知道……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請教部長，要不要？請教部長，要不要？有沒有討論的空間？"],["王部長美花：我想等一下在討論的時候，我們再來討論。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請問有沒有討論的空間？"],["王部長美花：等一下討論的時候，我們再來討論。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請問有沒有討論的空間？"],["王部長美花：我們等一下討論的時候再來說明。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，你要有guts一點啦！數字已經這麼嚴重、嚴苛了，對不對？你連講一句「有討論的空間」都不敢，我請問你要不要調整，你也不敢回答！我已經卑微到問你有沒有討論的空間，你還是不回答！我再告訴你數字……"],["王部長美花：沒有，我本來就說等一下討論的時候可以討論。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：可以討論。"],["王部長美花：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你就早回答嘛！1990年是多少？占GDP的比重攀升至29.8%，2021年36.4%，所以我一再強調，我們經濟成長果實的分享比重，在勞工的部分是越來越萎縮。我剛剛也說了，24歲以下是全國失業率第1名，24到29歲是失業率第2名，我們沒有理由不去照顧這些人，所以本席要請教，針對中小企業的加薪以及增加僱用年輕的勞工，本席提出了中小企業的人才培訓、品牌發展、健全會計制度等，也就是在我們的第三十六條之二跟第三十六條之四，我請你來支持，好不好？我請你來支持，好不好？你把中小企業顧好，它才能夠去照顧，去對它的員工加薪嘛！可不可以？好不好？"],["王部長美花：第三十六條之四的部分，剛才財政部有做詳細的說明，這個部分是不是在逐條討論的時候，我們再進一步詳細地說明？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，因為我們待會會逐條討論，大家都知道，但是我還是希望你朝著這個方向來協助我們的企業，協助我們的年輕朋友，怎麼樣讓他們的失業率不要那麼高。本席現在告訴你的是，我們先把觀念釐清，如果你的觀念是食古不化，如果你的觀念是不更改的，那從何討論？所以我還是希望聽到，目前的狀況以及目前的政策是有討論的空間，有沒有？"],["王部長美花：是，我們等一下可以逐條來討論。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，可以討論，那我們待會逐條討論。","接下來，本席要請教你，據媒體4月30日的報導，電價4月1日起平均調漲11%，平均調漲11%，那立法院通過了停止調漲的決議，你會不會停止調漲？會不會暫緩調漲？會不會？部長，會不會？"],["王部長美花：我們目前已經生效。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：會不會？這個跟中小企業也很相關哦！"],["王部長美花：因為這個跟……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你連330度以下都漲了哦！請教，會不會？會不會調漲？"],["王部長美花：目前的電價調漲已經在施行了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：立法院通過，那你會不會調漲？"],["王部長美花：我們還是要按照法律……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：禮拜二通過，你會不會調漲？"],["王部長美花：我們還是要按照法律來執行。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，你講了這個，我們就有一個共識了，你要按照法律，中國國民黨已經提出在電業法第四十九條裡面要增訂，在你們決議之後要經過立法院審議後實施，我們幫你，依法幫你，你會不會同意？會不會同意？"],["王部長美花：如果委員問我個人，我覺得這不是一個好的方式啦！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那你有什麼方式？苦民所苦，民眾這麼苦，你有什麼方式？"],["王部長美花：我想這個……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：全國的民眾到目前為止，行政院撥補1,000億，也是人民的納稅錢啊！那民眾這麼苦了，左手是我們的納稅錢，右手也漲我們的價，你叫民眾怎麼生活？"],["王部長美花：所以你如果……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那你說不是好的方法，我請問你，還有什麼好的方法可以協助我們？"],["王部長美花：你如果不讓它漲，事實上反而是用政府的經費去撥補更大的大用戶電，這樣的情形是不好的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，你現在的說法沒有解決問題的方向，你只有在對幹！對不對？"],["王部長美花：我沒有不解決。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你只有在跟民意對幹！"],["王部長美花：不是這個意思……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我告訴你，本席已經告訴你……"],["王部長美花：我們是希望台電能夠健全。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：能夠健全啊！所以我們可以更迂迴地共同討論，你同不同意？"],["王部長美花：來討論我們都可以，但是對台電的電價……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：都可以，因為你一直說依法嘛！你一直說依法，所以依法我們就給你一個有所本的依法，你同不同意？可以多一點討論空間，同不同意？"],["王部長美花：委員要怎麼樣的資料我們都同意，但是要電價審議會在電價審議之後……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：什麼委員要什麼資料？我在跟你討論電業法第四十九條可以有更寬廣的空間，將民意納入，可不可以？可不可以？"],["王部長美花：我想電價審議會審議之後，還要立法院同意才可以生效，這個其實是國際上非常少見的，對於台電的經營，我個人也是覺得不利的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你也對不起台電的員工！我們整個電力要怎麼樣韌性電網去調整，我們的能源政策要怎麼樣去調整，到目前為止，光以你們的方式，KPI是達不到的！達不到的時候，本來就是啊！你達不到，我們要怎麼樣去討論啊！你們還是堅持目前的狀態，就苦了老百姓！就苦了老百姓！怎麼辦？"],["王部長美花：我們電價的調漲……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，我還是苦口婆心地告訴你，今天我們的中小企業、產業如果撐不住，臺灣不知道會呈現什麼樣的樣態，這是本席非常憂心的，民眾這麼痛苦，只有請你緩漲，暫緩漲，你還是不願意。你告訴我們有所本，我們也幫你有所本，敬請你支持，讓我們的民眾可以好好生活，讓我們的產業可以好好地去蓬勃發展，好嗎？"],["主席（楊委員瓊瓔）：接下來請蔡易餘委員做詢答。","我們因為中場不休息，中午12點也不休息，所以敬請行政部門所有人員如果要去toilet，請自行，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":510,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-10","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","謝衣鳯","賴士葆","邱議瑩","張智倫","郭國文","陳亭妃","林岱樺","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra 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00:01:24,784\n這個其實是跟整個國家的發展的狀態有一點不太一樣。好,有一點不太一樣我就要告訴你,我們一直在說不管是我們經濟部的預算、工業局的預算、相關中小企業,我們要多分配,用分配兩個字,其實是對中小企業是非常的不禮貌。但是我們已經卑微的要求要好好的照顧中小企業,你應該可以認同這個觀念吧?\n\n4\n00:01:25,845 --> 00:01:28,006\n議員柯志恩等19人發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案案。\n\n5\n00:01:44,537 --> 00:02:10,552\n那其次是25到29歲那你為了要怎麼樣有效的來降低年輕人的失業率協助年輕人協助企業所以我們理當要從根源開始你認不認同這個觀念這就是為什麼我們對24歲以下覺得要給他加成減除的原因好加成減除到目前為止給你的答案就是如此還是這麼嚴重第一名還是一樣是24歲\n\n6\n00:02:12,759 --> 00:02:23,465\n第二名還是一樣是25到29歲表示你的政策是有調整的必要你認不認同啊?要不要調整?要不要調整?要不要調整?要不要調整?對,要不要調整?\n\n7\n00:02:29,468 --> 00:02:43,975\n我們尊重委員的意見但是我們尊重我們的意見那你就是要調整啊因為我們授權給行政部門在做但是答案是達不到人民的需求啊那行政部門應該是有為啊有為什麼有為去調整你的政策同不同意這樣的觀念我們等一下討論的時候同不同意這樣的觀念我跟委員在做說明是當你的KPI達不到的時候也不滿意的時候那你要不要調整你的政策方向\n\n8\n00:02:57,557 --> 00:03:02,483\n要不要?要不要調整?注意要不要調整?對,要不要調整?在法律的規定法可以修啊?除此之外還可以修啊?要不要調整?請你告訴我?\n\n9\n00:03:14,844 --> 00:03:32,601\n因為你如果都不調整,那我們就不用談啊。你如果要調整,我們好好來談。這是一個觀念的問題。再一次請教,當你的KPI達不到社會上的需求的時候,我們要不要就目前的政策來做調整?請教部長。\n\n10\n00:03:35,208 --> 00:03:36,830\n請教部長要不要?請教部長要不要?有沒有討論的空間?\n\n11\n00:03:48,393 --> 00:03:48,693\n我們等下討論再說明。1990年是多少?\n\n12\n00:04:12,916 --> 00:04:38,244\n我們GDP的比重攀升至29.8。2021年36.4。所以我一再強調我們經濟得到的果實的比重分享在勞工它是越來越萎縮。所以我剛剛也說了24歲以下是失業率全國第一名。24到29是失業率第二名。我們沒有理由不去照顧這些人。所以本席要請教我們中小企業的加薪\n\n13\n00:04:39,104 --> 00:05:01,889\nadequ.增加僱用年輕的勞工,所以本期提出了中小企業的人才培訓品牌發展健全會計制度等也就是在我們的三十六條之二跟三十六條之四我請你來支持好不好我請你來支持好不好你把中小企業顧好他才能夠去照顧去加薪他的員工嘛\n\n14\n00:05:02,742 --> 00:05:07,387\n可不可以?好不好?部長因為我們待會會主條討論大家都知道但是呢我還是希望你朝著這個方向來協助我們的企業協助我們真正的這個\n\n15\n00:06:08,668 --> 00:06:24,321\n會不會?會不會?這跟中小企業也很相關喔!你連330度以下你都漲了喔!請教!會不會?會不會調漲?目前的電價調漲是已經在施行了。那你立法院通過,那你會不會調漲?\n\n16\n00:06:26,499 --> 00:06:53,846\n禮拜二通過,你會不會調查?我們還是要按照法律來執行。好,你講的這個就是我們有一個共識了,你要按照法律。中國國民黨已經提出了在我們的電電法第49條,第49條,裡面徵定了這一個你們的決議之後,要經過立法院審議後實施。我們幫你,依法幫你,你會不會同意?\n\n17\n00:06:55,248 --> 00:07:16,990\n會不會同意?如果問我個人,我是覺得這不是一個好的方式啦。那你有什麼方式?民眾苦民所苦這麼苦,你有什麼方式?全國的民眾到目前為止,行政院撥補一千億,也是人民的納稅錢啊。那民眾這麼苦了,左手也我們的納稅錢,右手也藏我們的價。你叫民眾怎麼生活?\n\n18\n00:07:17,890 --> 00:07:35,377\n所以你如果...那你不知道好的方法我請問你還有什麼好的方法可以協助我們?你如果不讓他這樣事實上是反而是用政府的經費會去撥補更大的大用戶...部長你現在的說法沒有解決問題的方向你只有在對幹我沒有解...我沒有不解決你只有在跟民意對幹\n\n19\n00:07:36,457 --> 00:07:41,578\n我告訴你我已經告訴你能夠健全啊所以我們可以有更迂迴的共同討論你同不同意來討論我們都可以是都可以啊因為你一直說依法嘛你一直說依法所以依法我們就給你一個有所本的依法你同不同意可以多一點討論空間同不同意委員要怎麼樣的資料什麼我們都同意但是\n\n20\n00:08:04,702 --> 00:08:08,824\n我們要電價審議之後還要立法院同意才可以生效這個其實是國際上非常少見的那這個對台電的這個經營也是我個人也是覺得不利的你也對不起我們台電的員工我們整個電力\n\n21\n00:08:33,206 --> 00:08:56,213\n要怎麼樣韌性電網去調整我們的能源政策要怎麼樣去調整你們到目前為止光光依你們的方式KPI是達不到的達不到的時候本來就是啊你達不到我們要怎麼樣去討論啊你們還是堅持你們的目前的狀態就苦了老百姓就苦了老百姓怎麼辦部長我還是苦口婆心的告訴你\n\n22\n00:09:02,540 --> 00:09:16,968\n今天我們的中小企業產業如果撐不住,台灣不知道會呈現什麼樣的樣態。這是我本期非常的憂心。民眾這麼痛苦,只要請你緩漲,暫緩漲。\n\n23\n00:09:23,069 --> 00:09:34,698\n你還是不願意你告訴我們有所本我們也幫你有所本敬請你支持讓我們的民眾可以好好生活讓我們的產業可以好好的去蓬勃發展好嗎\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1091\t8214\t議員柯志恩等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案案。」案。\n29684\t55497\tadequate成功的這個軌道繼續來支持我們的中小企業那你拼命的點頭所以我們繼續來討論我們也知道受僱人員的報酬率GDP的比例1990年是51.04那之後的規模他就不斷的在縮小顯示勞動者在經濟成長果實的分享他的比重是一直在萎縮你同意這個論點嗎\n58009\t84784\t這個其實是跟整個國家的發展的狀態有一點不太一樣。好,有一點不太一樣我就要告訴你,我們一直在說不管是我們經濟部的預算、工業局的預算、相關中小企業,我們要多分配,用分配兩個字,其實是對中小企業是非常的不禮貌。但是我們已經卑微的要求要好好的照顧中小企業,你應該可以認同這個觀念吧?\n85845\t88006\t議員柯志恩等19人發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案案。\n104537\t130552\t那其次是25到29歲那你為了要怎麼樣有效的來降低年輕人的失業率協助年輕人協助企業所以我們理當要從根源開始你認不認同這個觀念這就是為什麼我們對24歲以下覺得要給他加成減除的原因好加成減除到目前為止給你的答案就是如此還是這麼嚴重第一名還是一樣是24歲\n132759\t143465\t第二名還是一樣是25到29歲表示你的政策是有調整的必要你認不認同啊?要不要調整?要不要調整?要不要調整?要不要調整?對,要不要調整?\n149468\t163975\t我們尊重委員的意見但是我們尊重我們的意見那你就是要調整啊因為我們授權給行政部門在做但是答案是達不到人民的需求啊那行政部門應該是有為啊有為什麼有為去調整你的政策同不同意這樣的觀念我們等一下討論的時候同不同意這樣的觀念我跟委員在做說明是當你的KPI達不到的時候也不滿意的時候那你要不要調整你的政策方向\n177557\t182483\t要不要?要不要調整?注意要不要調整?對,要不要調整?在法律的規定法可以修啊?除此之外還可以修啊?要不要調整?請你告訴我?\n194844\t212601\t因為你如果都不調整,那我們就不用談啊。你如果要調整,我們好好來談。這是一個觀念的問題。再一次請教,當你的KPI達不到社會上的需求的時候,我們要不要就目前的政策來做調整?請教部長。\n215208\t216830\t請教部長要不要?請教部長要不要?有沒有討論的空間?\n228393\t228693\t我們等下討論再說明。1990年是多少?\n252916\t278244\t我們GDP的比重攀升至29.8。2021年36.4。所以我一再強調我們經濟得到的果實的比重分享在勞工它是越來越萎縮。所以我剛剛也說了24歲以下是失業率全國第一名。24到29是失業率第二名。我們沒有理由不去照顧這些人。所以本席要請教我們中小企業的加薪\n279104\t301889\tadequ.增加僱用年輕的勞工,所以本期提出了中小企業的人才培訓品牌發展健全會計制度等也就是在我們的三十六條之二跟三十六條之四我請你來支持好不好我請你來支持好不好你把中小企業顧好他才能夠去照顧去加薪他的員工嘛\n302742\t307387\t可不可以?好不好?部長因為我們待會會主條討論大家都知道但是呢我還是希望你朝著這個方向來協助我們的企業協助我們真正的這個\n323763\t337227\t議員長\n337961\t367961\t\n368668\t384321\t會不會?會不會?這跟中小企業也很相關喔!你連330度以下你都漲了喔!請教!會不會?會不會調漲?目前的電價調漲是已經在施行了。那你立法院通過,那你會不會調漲?\n386499\t413846\t禮拜二通過,你會不會調查?我們還是要按照法律來執行。好,你講的這個就是我們有一個共識了,你要按照法律。中國國民黨已經提出了在我們的電電法第49條,第49條,裡面徵定了這一個你們的決議之後,要經過立法院審議後實施。我們幫你,依法幫你,你會不會同意?\n415248\t436990\t會不會同意?如果問我個人,我是覺得這不是一個好的方式啦。那你有什麼方式?民眾苦民所苦這麼苦,你有什麼方式?全國的民眾到目前為止,行政院撥補一千億,也是人民的納稅錢啊。那民眾這麼苦了,左手也我們的納稅錢,右手也藏我們的價。你叫民眾怎麼生活?\n437890\t455377\t所以你如果...那你不知道好的方法我請問你還有什麼好的方法可以協助我們?你如果不讓他這樣事實上是反而是用政府的經費會去撥補更大的大用戶...部長你現在的說法沒有解決問題的方向你只有在對幹我沒有解...我沒有不解決你只有在跟民意對幹\n456457\t461578\t我告訴你我已經告訴你能夠健全啊所以我們可以有更迂迴的共同討論你同不同意來討論我們都可以是都可以啊因為你一直說依法嘛你一直說依法所以依法我們就給你一個有所本的依法你同不同意可以多一點討論空間同不同意委員要怎麼樣的資料什麼我們都同意但是\n484702\t488824\t我們要電價審議之後還要立法院同意才可以生效這個其實是國際上非常少見的那這個對台電的這個經營也是我個人也是覺得不利的你也對不起我們台電的員工我們整個電力\n513206\t536213\t要怎麼樣韌性電網去調整我們的能源政策要怎麼樣去調整你們到目前為止光光依你們的方式KPI是達不到的達不到的時候本來就是啊你達不到我們要怎麼樣去討論啊你們還是堅持你們的目前的狀態就苦了老百姓就苦了老百姓怎麼辦部長我還是苦口婆心的告訴你\n542540\t556968\t今天我們的中小企業產業如果撐不住,台灣不知道會呈現什麼樣的樣態。這是我本期非常的憂心。民眾這麼痛苦,只要請你緩漲,暫緩漲。\n563069\t574698\t你還是不願意你告訴我們有所本我們也幫你有所本敬請你支持讓我們的民眾可以好好生活讓我們的產業可以好好的去蓬勃發展好嗎\n","txt":"議員柯志恩等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案案。」案。\nadequate成功的這個軌道繼續來支持我們的中小企業那你拼命的點頭所以我們繼續來討論我們也知道受僱人員的報酬率GDP的比例1990年是51.04那之後的規模他就不斷的在縮小顯示勞動者在經濟成長果實的分享他的比重是一直在萎縮你同意這個論點嗎\n這個其實是跟整個國家的發展的狀態有一點不太一樣。好,有一點不太一樣我就要告訴你,我們一直在說不管是我們經濟部的預算、工業局的預算、相關中小企業,我們要多分配,用分配兩個字,其實是對中小企業是非常的不禮貌。但是我們已經卑微的要求要好好的照顧中小企業,你應該可以認同這個觀念吧?\n議員柯志恩等19人發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案案。\n那其次是25到29歲那你為了要怎麼樣有效的來降低年輕人的失業率協助年輕人協助企業所以我們理當要從根源開始你認不認同這個觀念這就是為什麼我們對24歲以下覺得要給他加成減除的原因好加成減除到目前為止給你的答案就是如此還是這麼嚴重第一名還是一樣是24歲\n第二名還是一樣是25到29歲表示你的政策是有調整的必要你認不認同啊?要不要調整?要不要調整?要不要調整?要不要調整?對,要不要調整?\n我們尊重委員的意見但是我們尊重我們的意見那你就是要調整啊因為我們授權給行政部門在做但是答案是達不到人民的需求啊那行政部門應該是有為啊有為什麼有為去調整你的政策同不同意這樣的觀念我們等一下討論的時候同不同意這樣的觀念我跟委員在做說明是當你的KPI達不到的時候也不滿意的時候那你要不要調整你的政策方向\n要不要?要不要調整?注意要不要調整?對,要不要調整?在法律的規定法可以修啊?除此之外還可以修啊?要不要調整?請你告訴我?\n因為你如果都不調整,那我們就不用談啊。你如果要調整,我們好好來談。這是一個觀念的問題。再一次請教,當你的KPI達不到社會上的需求的時候,我們要不要就目前的政策來做調整?請教部長。\n請教部長要不要?請教部長要不要?有沒有討論的空間?\n我們等下討論再說明。1990年是多少?\n我們GDP的比重攀升至29.8。2021年36.4。所以我一再強調我們經濟得到的果實的比重分享在勞工它是越來越萎縮。所以我剛剛也說了24歲以下是失業率全國第一名。24到29是失業率第二名。我們沒有理由不去照顧這些人。所以本席要請教我們中小企業的加薪\nadequ.增加僱用年輕的勞工,所以本期提出了中小企業的人才培訓品牌發展健全會計制度等也就是在我們的三十六條之二跟三十六條之四我請你來支持好不好我請你來支持好不好你把中小企業顧好他才能夠去照顧去加薪他的員工嘛\n可不可以?好不好?部長因為我們待會會主條討論大家都知道但是呢我還是希望你朝著這個方向來協助我們的企業協助我們真正的這個\n議員長\n\n會不會?會不會?這跟中小企業也很相關喔!你連330度以下你都漲了喔!請教!會不會?會不會調漲?目前的電價調漲是已經在施行了。那你立法院通過,那你會不會調漲?\n禮拜二通過,你會不會調查?我們還是要按照法律來執行。好,你講的這個就是我們有一個共識了,你要按照法律。中國國民黨已經提出了在我們的電電法第49條,第49條,裡面徵定了這一個你們的決議之後,要經過立法院審議後實施。我們幫你,依法幫你,你會不會同意?\n會不會同意?如果問我個人,我是覺得這不是一個好的方式啦。那你有什麼方式?民眾苦民所苦這麼苦,你有什麼方式?全國的民眾到目前為止,行政院撥補一千億,也是人民的納稅錢啊。那民眾這麼苦了,左手也我們的納稅錢,右手也藏我們的價。你叫民眾怎麼生活?\n所以你如果...那你不知道好的方法我請問你還有什麼好的方法可以協助我們?你如果不讓他這樣事實上是反而是用政府的經費會去撥補更大的大用戶...部長你現在的說法沒有解決問題的方向你只有在對幹我沒有解...我沒有不解決你只有在跟民意對幹\n我告訴你我已經告訴你能夠健全啊所以我們可以有更迂迴的共同討論你同不同意來討論我們都可以是都可以啊因為你一直說依法嘛你一直說依法所以依法我們就給你一個有所本的依法你同不同意可以多一點討論空間同不同意委員要怎麼樣的資料什麼我們都同意但是\n我們要電價審議之後還要立法院同意才可以生效這個其實是國際上非常少見的那這個對台電的這個經營也是我個人也是覺得不利的你也對不起我們台電的員工我們整個電力\n要怎麼樣韌性電網去調整我們的能源政策要怎麼樣去調整你們到目前為止光光依你們的方式KPI是達不到的達不到的時候本來就是啊你達不到我們要怎麼樣去討論啊你們還是堅持你們的目前的狀態就苦了老百姓就苦了老百姓怎麼辦部長我還是苦口婆心的告訴你\n今天我們的中小企業產業如果撐不住,台灣不知道會呈現什麼樣的樣態。這是我本期非常的憂心。民眾這麼痛苦,只要請你緩漲,暫緩漲。\n你還是不願意你告訴我們有所本我們也幫你有所本敬請你支持讓我們的民眾可以好好生活讓我們的產業可以好好的去蓬勃發展好嗎\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.091 --> 00:08.214\n議員柯志恩等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案案。」案。\n\n00:29.684 --> 00:55.497\nadequate成功的這個軌道繼續來支持我們的中小企業那你拼命的點頭所以我們繼續來討論我們也知道受僱人員的報酬率GDP的比例1990年是51.04那之後的規模他就不斷的在縮小顯示勞動者在經濟成長果實的分享他的比重是一直在萎縮你同意這個論點嗎\n\n00:58.009 --> 01:24.784\n這個其實是跟整個國家的發展的狀態有一點不太一樣。好,有一點不太一樣我就要告訴你,我們一直在說不管是我們經濟部的預算、工業局的預算、相關中小企業,我們要多分配,用分配兩個字,其實是對中小企業是非常的不禮貌。但是我們已經卑微的要求要好好的照顧中小企業,你應該可以認同這個觀念吧?\n\n01:25.845 --> 01:28.006\n議員柯志恩等19人發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案案。\n\n01:44.537 --> 02:10.552\n那其次是25到29歲那你為了要怎麼樣有效的來降低年輕人的失業率協助年輕人協助企業所以我們理當要從根源開始你認不認同這個觀念這就是為什麼我們對24歲以下覺得要給他加成減除的原因好加成減除到目前為止給你的答案就是如此還是這麼嚴重第一名還是一樣是24歲\n\n02:12.759 --> 02:23.465\n第二名還是一樣是25到29歲表示你的政策是有調整的必要你認不認同啊?要不要調整?要不要調整?要不要調整?要不要調整?對,要不要調整?\n\n02:29.468 --> 02:43.975\n我們尊重委員的意見但是我們尊重我們的意見那你就是要調整啊因為我們授權給行政部門在做但是答案是達不到人民的需求啊那行政部門應該是有為啊有為什麼有為去調整你的政策同不同意這樣的觀念我們等一下討論的時候同不同意這樣的觀念我跟委員在做說明是當你的KPI達不到的時候也不滿意的時候那你要不要調整你的政策方向\n\n02:57.557 --> 03:02.483\n要不要?要不要調整?注意要不要調整?對,要不要調整?在法律的規定法可以修啊?除此之外還可以修啊?要不要調整?請你告訴我?\n\n03:14.844 --> 03:32.601\n因為你如果都不調整,那我們就不用談啊。你如果要調整,我們好好來談。這是一個觀念的問題。再一次請教,當你的KPI達不到社會上的需求的時候,我們要不要就目前的政策來做調整?請教部長。\n\n03:35.208 --> 03:36.830\n請教部長要不要?請教部長要不要?有沒有討論的空間?\n\n03:48.393 --> 03:48.693\n我們等下討論再說明。1990年是多少?\n\n04:12.916 --> 04:38.244\n我們GDP的比重攀升至29.8。2021年36.4。所以我一再強調我們經濟得到的果實的比重分享在勞工它是越來越萎縮。所以我剛剛也說了24歲以下是失業率全國第一名。24到29是失業率第二名。我們沒有理由不去照顧這些人。所以本席要請教我們中小企業的加薪\n\n04:39.104 --> 05:01.889\nadequ.增加僱用年輕的勞工,所以本期提出了中小企業的人才培訓品牌發展健全會計制度等也就是在我們的三十六條之二跟三十六條之四我請你來支持好不好我請你來支持好不好你把中小企業顧好他才能夠去照顧去加薪他的員工嘛\n\n05:02.742 --> 05:07.387\n可不可以?好不好?部長因為我們待會會主條討論大家都知道但是呢我還是希望你朝著這個方向來協助我們的企業協助我們真正的這個\n\n06:08.668 --> 06:24.321\n會不會?會不會?這跟中小企業也很相關喔!你連330度以下你都漲了喔!請教!會不會?會不會調漲?目前的電價調漲是已經在施行了。那你立法院通過,那你會不會調漲?\n\n06:26.499 --> 06:53.846\n禮拜二通過,你會不會調查?我們還是要按照法律來執行。好,你講的這個就是我們有一個共識了,你要按照法律。中國國民黨已經提出了在我們的電電法第49條,第49條,裡面徵定了這一個你們的決議之後,要經過立法院審議後實施。我們幫你,依法幫你,你會不會同意?\n\n06:55.248 --> 07:16.990\n會不會同意?如果問我個人,我是覺得這不是一個好的方式啦。那你有什麼方式?民眾苦民所苦這麼苦,你有什麼方式?全國的民眾到目前為止,行政院撥補一千億,也是人民的納稅錢啊。那民眾這麼苦了,左手也我們的納稅錢,右手也藏我們的價。你叫民眾怎麼生活?\n\n07:17.890 --> 07:35.377\n所以你如果...那你不知道好的方法我請問你還有什麼好的方法可以協助我們?你如果不讓他這樣事實上是反而是用政府的經費會去撥補更大的大用戶...部長你現在的說法沒有解決問題的方向你只有在對幹我沒有解...我沒有不解決你只有在跟民意對幹\n\n07:36.457 --> 07:41.578\n我告訴你我已經告訴你能夠健全啊所以我們可以有更迂迴的共同討論你同不同意來討論我們都可以是都可以啊因為你一直說依法嘛你一直說依法所以依法我們就給你一個有所本的依法你同不同意可以多一點討論空間同不同意委員要怎麼樣的資料什麼我們都同意但是\n\n08:04.702 --> 08:08.824\n我們要電價審議之後還要立法院同意才可以生效這個其實是國際上非常少見的那這個對台電的這個經營也是我個人也是覺得不利的你也對不起我們台電的員工我們整個電力\n\n08:33.206 --> 08:56.213\n要怎麼樣韌性電網去調整我們的能源政策要怎麼樣去調整你們到目前為止光光依你們的方式KPI是達不到的達不到的時候本來就是啊你達不到我們要怎麼樣去討論啊你們還是堅持你們的目前的狀態就苦了老百姓就苦了老百姓怎麼辦部長我還是苦口婆心的告訴你\n\n09:02.540 --> 09:16.968\n今天我們的中小企業產業如果撐不住,台灣不知道會呈現什麼樣的樣態。這是我本期非常的憂心。民眾這麼痛苦,只要請你緩漲,暫緩漲。\n\n09:23.069 --> 09:34.698\n你還是不願意你告訴我們有所本我們也幫你有所本敬請你支持讓我們的民眾可以好好生活讓我們的產業可以好好的去蓬勃發展好嗎\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.091,"end":8.214,"text":"議員柯志恩等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案案。」案。"},{"start":29.684,"end":55.497,"text":"adequate成功的這個軌道繼續來支持我們的中小企業那你拼命的點頭所以我們繼續來討論我們也知道受僱人員的報酬率GDP的比例1990年是51.04那之後的規模他就不斷的在縮小顯示勞動者在經濟成長果實的分享他的比重是一直在萎縮你同意這個論點嗎"},{"start":58.009,"end":84.784,"text":"這個其實是跟整個國家的發展的狀態有一點不太一樣。好,有一點不太一樣我就要告訴你,我們一直在說不管是我們經濟部的預算、工業局的預算、相關中小企業,我們要多分配,用分配兩個字,其實是對中小企業是非常的不禮貌。但是我們已經卑微的要求要好好的照顧中小企業,你應該可以認同這個觀念吧?"},{"start":85.845,"end":88.006,"text":"議員柯志恩等19人發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案案。"},{"start":104.537,"end":130.552,"text":"那其次是25到29歲那你為了要怎麼樣有效的來降低年輕人的失業率協助年輕人協助企業所以我們理當要從根源開始你認不認同這個觀念這就是為什麼我們對24歲以下覺得要給他加成減除的原因好加成減除到目前為止給你的答案就是如此還是這麼嚴重第一名還是一樣是24歲"},{"start":132.759,"end":143.465,"text":"第二名還是一樣是25到29歲表示你的政策是有調整的必要你認不認同啊?要不要調整?要不要調整?要不要調整?要不要調整?對,要不要調整?"},{"start":149.468,"end":163.975,"text":"我們尊重委員的意見但是我們尊重我們的意見那你就是要調整啊因為我們授權給行政部門在做但是答案是達不到人民的需求啊那行政部門應該是有為啊有為什麼有為去調整你的政策同不同意這樣的觀念我們等一下討論的時候同不同意這樣的觀念我跟委員在做說明是當你的KPI達不到的時候也不滿意的時候那你要不要調整你的政策方向"},{"start":177.557,"end":182.483,"text":"要不要?要不要調整?注意要不要調整?對,要不要調整?在法律的規定法可以修啊?除此之外還可以修啊?要不要調整?請你告訴我?"},{"start":194.844,"end":212.601,"text":"因為你如果都不調整,那我們就不用談啊。你如果要調整,我們好好來談。這是一個觀念的問題。再一次請教,當你的KPI達不到社會上的需求的時候,我們要不要就目前的政策來做調整?請教部長。"},{"start":215.208,"end":216.83,"text":"請教部長要不要?請教部長要不要?有沒有討論的空間?"},{"start":228.393,"end":228.693,"text":"我們等下討論再說明。1990年是多少?"},{"start":252.916,"end":278.244,"text":"我們GDP的比重攀升至29.8。2021年36.4。所以我一再強調我們經濟得到的果實的比重分享在勞工它是越來越萎縮。所以我剛剛也說了24歲以下是失業率全國第一名。24到29是失業率第二名。我們沒有理由不去照顧這些人。所以本席要請教我們中小企業的加薪"},{"start":279.104,"end":301.889,"text":"adequ.增加僱用年輕的勞工,所以本期提出了中小企業的人才培訓品牌發展健全會計制度等也就是在我們的三十六條之二跟三十六條之四我請你來支持好不好我請你來支持好不好你把中小企業顧好他才能夠去照顧去加薪他的員工嘛"},{"start":302.742,"end":307.387,"text":"可不可以?好不好?部長因為我們待會會主條討論大家都知道但是呢我還是希望你朝著這個方向來協助我們的企業協助我們真正的這個"},{"start":323.763,"end":337.227,"text":"議員長"},{"start":337.961,"end":367.961,"text":""},{"start":368.668,"end":384.321,"text":"會不會?會不會?這跟中小企業也很相關喔!你連330度以下你都漲了喔!請教!會不會?會不會調漲?目前的電價調漲是已經在施行了。那你立法院通過,那你會不會調漲?"},{"start":386.499,"end":413.846,"text":"禮拜二通過,你會不會調查?我們還是要按照法律來執行。好,你講的這個就是我們有一個共識了,你要按照法律。中國國民黨已經提出了在我們的電電法第49條,第49條,裡面徵定了這一個你們的決議之後,要經過立法院審議後實施。我們幫你,依法幫你,你會不會同意?"},{"start":415.248,"end":436.99,"text":"會不會同意?如果問我個人,我是覺得這不是一個好的方式啦。那你有什麼方式?民眾苦民所苦這麼苦,你有什麼方式?全國的民眾到目前為止,行政院撥補一千億,也是人民的納稅錢啊。那民眾這麼苦了,左手也我們的納稅錢,右手也藏我們的價。你叫民眾怎麼生活?"},{"start":437.89,"end":455.377,"text":"所以你如果...那你不知道好的方法我請問你還有什麼好的方法可以協助我們?你如果不讓他這樣事實上是反而是用政府的經費會去撥補更大的大用戶...部長你現在的說法沒有解決問題的方向你只有在對幹我沒有解...我沒有不解決你只有在跟民意對幹"},{"start":456.457,"end":461.578,"text":"我告訴你我已經告訴你能夠健全啊所以我們可以有更迂迴的共同討論你同不同意來討論我們都可以是都可以啊因為你一直說依法嘛你一直說依法所以依法我們就給你一個有所本的依法你同不同意可以多一點討論空間同不同意委員要怎麼樣的資料什麼我們都同意但是"},{"start":484.702,"end":488.824,"text":"我們要電價審議之後還要立法院同意才可以生效這個其實是國際上非常少見的那這個對台電的這個經營也是我個人也是覺得不利的你也對不起我們台電的員工我們整個電力"},{"start":513.206,"end":536.213,"text":"要怎麼樣韌性電網去調整我們的能源政策要怎麼樣去調整你們到目前為止光光依你們的方式KPI是達不到的達不到的時候本來就是啊你達不到我們要怎麼樣去討論啊你們還是堅持你們的目前的狀態就苦了老百姓就苦了老百姓怎麼辦部長我還是苦口婆心的告訴你"},{"start":542.54,"end":556.968,"text":"今天我們的中小企業產業如果撐不住,台灣不知道會呈現什麼樣的樣態。這是我本期非常的憂心。民眾這麼痛苦,只要請你緩漲,暫緩漲。"},{"start":563.069,"end":574.698,"text":"你還是不願意你告訴我們有所本我們也幫你有所本敬請你支持讓我們的民眾可以好好生活讓我們的產業可以好好的去蓬勃發展好嗎"}]}}}}