{"id":152075,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152075","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6f015fe8e6787db1c55064741a173555e12ebde737ab3c1955be169921a0a7179258d6461fda9c085ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"11:21:12 - 11:29:37","影片長度":"00:08:25","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：審查：\n一、行政院函請審議「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、本院委員柯志恩等17人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n三、本院委員賴士葆等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n四、本院委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n五、本院委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「中小企業發展條例增訂第三十六條之四條文草案」案。\n六、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n七、本院國民黨黨團擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n八、本院委員張智倫等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十五條、第三十六條之二及第四十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、本院委員王世堅等16人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十五條、第三十六條之二及第四十條條文修正草案」案。\n十、本院委員郭國文等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n十一、本院委員邱議瑩等29人擬具「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（詢答及處理，委員郭國文等人提案如未接獲議事處來函則不予審查）【4月29日、5月1日及2日三天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-02","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-10"},"duration":505,"end_time":"2024-05-02T11:29:37+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-02T11:21:12+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":586,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（11時21分）主席謝謝，麻煩請王美花部長。"],["主席：我們再請部長。"],["洪委員孟楷：先喝口茶，辛苦了。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，昨天5月1日勞動節，今天感謝召委馬上就排審，希望能夠加薪減稅，我覺得經濟部長來這邊討論經濟發展能夠實際回饋到勞工的部分，我覺得這是有意義跟有代表性的。在今年本來預計5月19日落日的這個法案，我們現在希望能夠展延10年，可是過去到現在，其實大家一直強調的是，提出這樣的政策是不是誘因不足，導致於沒有辦法有很大的量能？現在我們也看到有要再提升，可是提升的部分，切的是不是不夠？國民黨團這邊也有提版本，我們認為應該要以200%來做一個級距。其實本席剛剛聽了很多委員的討論，我發覺現在我們應該是能夠做得更細，因為剛剛部長有講到一個部分，我不知道勞動部有沒有給你正確的資訊或是說你們部會裡面溝通，因為我在衛環委員會問勞動部，勞動部部長一直把高齡再進入，等於是把所謂的壯世代的勞工人力當成是解方之一，希望這些高齡者或是退休者能夠再進入企業，能夠來解決缺工的問題，否則的話，現在缺工的問題有多少人，部長知道嗎？"],["王部長美花：確實各個行業都有提到這個困擾。"],["洪委員孟楷：確實啊！在衛環委員會，勞動部部長親口講，全臺灣各行業現在缺工的人數差不多30萬到40萬，如果說缺工的話，你就沒有辦法經濟活絡嘛！因為畢竟工的部分是一個很重要的動力，那我們現在在講，如果以現在的行政院版本，也就是經濟部的版本，這個150%的部分，會不會還是誘因不足？"],["王部長美花：在勞動部還有我們看到的數據，去鼓勵45歲以上其實是非常好的一個部分，因為我們也聽到45歲要重新再就業常常碰到困擾。但是65歲以上，第一個，像委員講的，勞動部確實現在就有補助了，它不需要用這個機制，它其實就有機制，不過65歲以上再回來就業的占比，我們看到的數據確實還是少數，所以這是……"],["洪委員孟楷：確實還是少數啊！本席也在講是不是誘因不夠，其實我覺得以現代人的生理條件，從年齡來講的話，65歲到70歲我覺得都還算是一個健康的狀態。"],["王部長美花：對，但是如果以財政部……"],["洪委員孟楷：更不用講現在的退休年齡，有很多是55歲以上就開始在退休生活了。"],["王部長美花：對，如果就這裡的加成減除的金額跟勞動部那邊直接給1萬元的補貼來講，事實上那個金額還比較多，所以我們看到的是，即使給這樣的補貼……"],["洪委員孟楷：希望有誘因。"],["王部長美花：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，本席這邊是說有沒有可能再針對級距的部分，你現在講的是45歲以上，但是我們現在講到的是你們的版本只有150%嘛！"],["王部長美花：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：本席認為至少要調高到200%，能夠有更強的力道，至於能不能更有級距，等一下我們在逐條的時候再討論，但是我希望部長能夠把這樣的意見，不要預設意識形態或是不要預設立場，我們共同來討論，好不好？"],["王部長美花：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，另外一個部分，當然能源很重要啦！問一下你的態度，因為本席有看到，現在G7七大工業國他們有發表，2035年逐步淘汰燃煤發電，甚至有報導說這個是COP28以來最大的創舉，2035年七大工業國已經宣示要淘汰燃煤發電，我們臺灣在2025非核家園之後，8成都是火力發電。還有，G7這一次有特別提到，不再發表反核的言論，也認為核能是乾淨的能源，部長，您怎麼看？"],["王部長美花：第一個，就煤的部分，這是為什麼我們一直在講增氣減煤啦！希望能夠代替……"],["洪委員孟楷：我們做得到嗎？2035年。"],["王部長美花：第二個，對……"],["洪委員孟楷：我們做不做得到2035年也淘汰燃煤？"],["王部長美花：在2035年的時候，事實上我們大部分的燃煤機組確實都會提早除役，大概剩下林口的超超臨界……"],["洪委員孟楷：就是剩下本席現在所居住的地方，林口火力發電廠3部機組燃煤發電，是不是？"],["王部長美花：因為委員也很清楚，我們超超臨界第一個，這個確實是比較新的機組。"],["洪委員孟楷：新北市比較「細漢」嗎？林口人比較「細漢」嗎？"],["王部長美花：不是，因為這個是比較新的機組。第二個，這個機組在空污的改善都非常……"],["洪委員孟楷：燃煤就是燃煤，我想七大工業國也沒有哪一個國家不是用這種比較新的機組，但是他們現在已經正式地宣示、宣戰要淘汰燃煤發電，2035年逐步落實燃煤發電的淘汰，不再用燃煤發電。臺灣，你剛剛講了，2035年到了之後只剩林口火力發電廠還是燃煤發電。"],["王部長美花：跟委員報告，第一個，我們減煤……"],["洪委員孟楷：會不會變成是我們跟不上世界的趨勢？"],["王部長美花：第一個，我們減煤一定是要加緊腳步來做。"],["洪委員孟楷：有沒有檢討的空間？"],["王部長美花：第二個，對於……"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，你只剩十幾天在這個任期上……"],["王部長美花：沒有，對於整個……"],["洪委員孟楷：我不希望你還是用這種政治意識形態，本席強調的是……"],["王部長美花：我沒有用意識形態。"],["洪委員孟楷：當然這個要之後再討論，本席今天提出來，因為這是最新的，G7的這個發表你有看到嘛﹗"],["王部長美花：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：它的發表其實就兩大重點，2035淘汰燃煤發電以及它不再反核，宣示核能是乾淨的電、乾淨的能源來源。"],["王部長美花：它是說不要再去提出反核的意見，這是他們做出來的決議，因為在G7，就我們的理解，包括德國等等，他們就是作成一個共同決議，這個是G7的決議，我們也看到了。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以你認同他們的決議嗎？"],["王部長美花：這是G7的決議，我們當然會注意各國發展的情形、國際的情形。"],["洪委員孟楷：七大工業國聯合發表的宣示，我們的經濟部長認不認同這七大工業國的方向？我覺得這個很關鍵耶！"],["王部長美花：我們當然都會注意國際上的各個面向和方向。"],["洪委員孟楷：你覺得他們有講錯嗎？"],["王部長美花：這是他們發表的言論，我們不會說他們講錯的問題。"],["洪委員孟楷：那你認同這樣的言論嗎？"],["王部長美花：我們尊重他們這樣的宣言。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，世界的趨勢，為什麼我那麼重視？就是因為我們都生活在地球村，大家也講COP26、COP28這樣子一路下來，為什麼現在全世界要一起對抗所謂的溫室效應，2050淨零碳排，就是認為環境破壞是不可逆的，也因此人類都在思考怎麼樣維持現有的生活下，還可以降低對環境的衝擊。能源是選擇，我再一次強調，一而再、再而三我都強調，每個人都要用電，所以每個人都要負責，能源是選擇，所以我們現在的選擇都會取決於我們對於環境的破壞以及留下什麼環境給下一代子孫，既然人家已經宣示了2035停止燃煤、淘汰燃煤，我們當然應該要去重視，當然應該要去規劃。另外，現在核能已經被七大工業國認為它不再反核，認為核能是乾淨的能源，我們也應該要尊重世界的潮流，這是趨勢，這也應該是我們專業文官的判斷，不要再用政治意識形態綁住我們自己的手跟腳，我想這是我給經濟部所有同仁的忠告，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。接下來我們先休息2分鐘。","休息（11時29分）","繼續開會（11時33分）"],["主席：我們繼續開會。","請邱志偉委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":510,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-10","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","謝衣鳯","賴士葆","邱議瑩","張智倫","郭國文","陳亭妃","林岱樺","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra 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00:01:43,517\n我不知道是勞動部有沒有給你正確的一個資訊,或是說你們部會裡面溝通。因為我在衛環委員會問勞動部啊,勞動部部長一直把這個高齡再進入等於是所謂的壯世代的這個勞工人力啊,當成是一個解方之一啊。就希望是說我們能夠來用,希望能夠這些高齡者或是說這個退休者能夠再進入企業,能夠來解決缺工的問題,否則的話現在缺工問題有多少人?部長知道嗎?\n\n4\n00:01:45,562 --> 00:02:14,103\n確實各個行業都有提到這個困擾。確實啊!衛環委員會勞動部部長親口講現在缺工的人數差不多30萬到40萬全台灣各行業那如果說缺工的話你就沒有辦法有經濟活絡嘛因為畢竟工的部分是一個很重要的一個動力那我們現在在講如果說以針對現在的這一個行政院的版本也就是經濟部的版本這個150%的部分會不會還是誘因不足?\n\n5\n00:02:15,526 --> 00:02:19,169\n在這個勞動部還有我們看到的數據其實去鼓勵那個45歲以上其實是非常好的一個部分讓他因為我們也聽到45歲他要重新再就業常常碰到這個困擾但是65歲以上第一個像委員講勞動部確實現在就有補助了他不需要用這個\n\n6\n00:02:37,620 --> 00:02:53,832\nadequacy他其實就有機制那但是65歲以上的再回來就業的占比呢我們看到的數據確實還是少數確實還是少數啊就是因為本時也在講是說是不是誘因不夠其實我覺得以現代人的一個生理條件年齡來講的話其實這是\n\n7\n00:02:56,273 --> 00:02:57,634\nbicyn希望有誘因。\n\n8\n00:03:25,444 --> 00:03:53,454\n部長如果說本席這邊在講是說有沒有可能在針對極具的部分就是說45你現在是講的是45歲以上但是我們現在講到是你們的版本就150嘛那本席也認為是說其實條高至少到200能夠有更強的一個力道那能不能有更極具的一個部分等一下我們再來主條討論的時候討論但是我希望部長能夠把這樣的一個意見不要預設歷史形態或說不要預設立場我們來共同討論好不好\n\n9\n00:03:54,154 --> 00:04:22,087\n部長另外一個部分當然能源很重要啦問一下你的態度因為本時有看到現在G7七大工業國他們發表他說2035年逐步淘汰藍莓發電甚至報導講說這個是COP28以來最大的創舉2035年七大工業國已經宣誓要淘汰藍莓發電那我們現在台灣\n\n10\n00:04:39,076 --> 00:04:50,282\n第一個就這個煤的部分這是為什麼我們一直在講增氣減煤希望能夠我們做得到嗎2035年那第二個我們做不做得到2035年我們也淘汰燃煤在2035年的時候事實上我們大部分的燃煤機組我們確實都會把他提早除役那大概應該剩下這個林口的就剩下本席現在所居住的地方林口火力發電廠三部機組燃煤發電\n\n11\n00:05:08,212 --> 00:05:30,673\n因為委員也很清楚我們超超臨界第一個這個確實是比較新的機組。這個是比較新的機組那第二個這個機組的這個公務的改善都會發生。我想七大工業國也沒有哪一個國家他們不是用這種比較新的機組但是他們現在已經正式的宣誓、宣戰、淘汰藍媒發電。\n\n12\n00:05:32,054 --> 00:05:56,248\n二零三五年逐步落實藍莓發電的淘汰,不再用藍莓發電。台灣,你剛剛講了,二零三五年到了之後只剩林口火力發電廠還是藍莓發電?會不會變成是說現在我們跟不上世界的趨勢?有沒有檢討的空間?部長,你只剩十幾天就在這個任期上了。我不希望你還是用這種政治意識形態。\n\n13\n00:05:57,208 --> 00:06:06,987\n本席強調是因為當然這個是要跟之後再討論本席今天提出來因為這個是最新的G7的這個發表你有看到嗎?是\n\n14\n00:06:07,813 --> 00:06:37,254\n他發表其實就兩大重點啊。2035淘汰藍莓發電以及宣示核能不再是,他不再反核,宣示核能是乾淨的電,乾淨的能源來源。他說不要再去提出反核的意見啦齁,那他這個是他們做出來的決議,那因為在G7我們的理解因為包括德國等等的,那他們就是做成一個共同決議,那這個是G7的一個決議,我們也看到了是。\n\n15\n00:06:37,634 --> 00:06:54,137\n所以你認同他們的決議嗎?這是G7的決議我們當然會注意各國的發展的情形。經濟部長當然七大工業國七大工業國發表聯合發表的一個宣誓那我們的經濟部長認不認同這七大工業國的方向?\n\n16\n00:06:55,280 --> 00:06:56,702\n議員部長,世界的趨勢,為什麼我那麼的重視?\n\n17\n00:07:16,078 --> 00:07:41,839\n就是因為我們都生活在地球村。大爺講COP26、28這樣子一路下來為什麼世界現在全世界大家一起要對抗這所謂的這個溫室效益。2050精靈碳排就是認為是說這環境破壞的是不可逆的也因此人類都在思考怎麼樣維持現有的生活力下還可以降低對環境的衝擊。能源是選擇我再次強調一而再再上我都強調\n\n18\n00:07:42,700 --> 00:08:11,599\n每個人都要用電所以每個人都要負責,能源是選擇。所以我們現在的選擇都會取決於我們對於環境的破壞以及對於下一代子孫留下什麼環境給子孫。既然人家已經宣示了2035有停止藍莓、淘汰藍莓,我們當然應該要去重視,當然應該要去規劃。另外我們也認為現在核能已經被七大工業國認為說它不再反核,認為核能是乾淨的能源,我們也應該要尊重世界的潮流,這是趨勢。\n\n19\n00:08:13,201 --> 00:08:22,631\n這也應該是我們專業的文官的判斷。不要再用政治意識形態綁住我們自己的手跟腳。我想這是我給經濟部、同仁所有的忠告。謝謝。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n80\t9346\t昨天5月1號勞動節今天馬上感謝趙偉舊排審希望能夠加薪減稅我覺得經濟部長這邊來\n29585\t57813\t閱讀能夠為經濟發展來實際的回饋到勞工的部分我覺得這是有意義跟有代表性的那不過呢在今年本來預計5月19號落日的這個法案我們現在也希望是說能夠展延10年可是過去到現在其實大家一直強調的是說提出這樣的政策誘因是不是不足而導致於說沒有辦法有很大的一個這個量能那現在我們也看到是說有要再提升可是提升的部分\n58831\t76954\t\n76954\t103517\t我不知道是勞動部有沒有給你正確的一個資訊,或是說你們部會裡面溝通。因為我在衛環委員會問勞動部啊,勞動部部長一直把這個高齡再進入等於是所謂的壯世代的這個勞工人力啊,當成是一個解方之一啊。就希望是說我們能夠來用,希望能夠這些高齡者或是說這個退休者能夠再進入企業,能夠來解決缺工的問題,否則的話現在缺工問題有多少人?部長知道嗎?\n105562\t134103\t確實各個行業都有提到這個困擾。確實啊!衛環委員會勞動部部長親口講現在缺工的人數差不多30萬到40萬全台灣各行業那如果說缺工的話你就沒有辦法有經濟活絡嘛因為畢竟工的部分是一個很重要的一個動力那我們現在在講如果說以針對現在的這一個行政院的版本也就是經濟部的版本這個150%的部分會不會還是誘因不足?\n135526\t139169\t在這個勞動部還有我們看到的數據其實去鼓勵那個45歲以上其實是非常好的一個部分讓他因為我們也聽到45歲他要重新再就業常常碰到這個困擾但是65歲以上第一個像委員講勞動部確實現在就有補助了他不需要用這個\n157620\t173832\tadequacy他其實就有機制那但是65歲以上的再回來就業的占比呢我們看到的數據確實還是少數確實還是少數啊就是因為本時也在講是說是不是誘因不夠其實我覺得以現代人的一個生理條件年齡來講的話其實這是\n176273\t177634\tbicyn 希望有誘因。\n205444\t233454\t部長如果說本席這邊在講是說有沒有可能在針對極具的部分就是說45你現在是講的是45歲以上但是我們現在講到是你們的版本就150嘛那本席也認為是說其實條高至少到200能夠有更強的一個力道那能不能有更極具的一個部分等一下我們再來主條討論的時候討論但是我希望部長能夠把這樣的一個意見不要預設歷史形態或說不要預設立場我們來共同討論好不好\n234154\t262087\t部長另外一個部分當然能源很重要啦問一下你的態度因為本時有看到現在G7七大工業國他們發表他說2035年逐步淘汰藍莓發電甚至報導講說這個是COP28以來最大的創舉2035年七大工業國已經宣誓要淘汰藍莓發電那我們現在台灣\n263097\t278422\t\n279076\t290282\t第一個就這個煤的部分這是為什麼我們一直在講增氣減煤希望能夠我們做得到嗎2035年那第二個我們做不做得到2035年我們也淘汰燃煤在2035年的時候事實上我們大部分的燃煤機組我們確實都會把他提早除役那大概應該剩下這個林口的就剩下本席現在所居住的地方林口火力發電廠三部機組燃煤發電\n308212\t330673\t因為委員也很清楚我們超超臨界第一個這個確實是比較新的機組。這個是比較新的機組那第二個這個機組的這個公務的改善都會發生。我想七大工業國也沒有哪一個國家他們不是用這種比較新的機組但是他們現在已經正式的宣誓、宣戰、淘汰藍媒發電。\n332054\t356248\t二零三五年逐步落實藍莓發電的淘汰,不再用藍莓發電。台灣,你剛剛講了,二零三五年到了之後只剩林口火力發電廠還是藍莓發電?會不會變成是說現在我們跟不上世界的趨勢?有沒有檢討的空間?部長,你只剩十幾天就在這個任期上了。我不希望你還是用這種政治意識形態。\n357208\t366987\t本席強調是因為當然這個是要跟之後再討論本席今天提出來因為這個是最新的G7的這個發表你有看到嗎?是\n367813\t397254\t他發表其實就兩大重點啊。2035淘汰藍莓發電以及宣示核能不再是,他不再反核,宣示核能是乾淨的電,乾淨的能源來源。他說不要再去提出反核的意見啦齁,那他這個是他們做出來的決議,那因為在G7我們的理解因為包括德國等等的,那他們就是做成一個共同決議,那這個是G7的一個決議,我們也看到了是。\n397634\t414137\t所以你認同他們的決議嗎?這是G7的決議我們當然會注意各國的發展的情形。經濟部長當然七大工業國七大工業國發表聯合發表的一個宣誓那我們的經濟部長認不認同這七大工業國的方向?\n415280\t416702\t議員 部長,世界的趨勢,為什麼我那麼的重視?\n436078\t461839\t就是因為我們都生活在地球村。大爺講COP26、28這樣子一路下來為什麼世界現在全世界大家一起要對抗這所謂的這個溫室效益。2050精靈碳排就是認為是說這環境破壞的是不可逆的也因此人類都在思考怎麼樣維持現有的生活力下還可以降低對環境的衝擊。能源是選擇我再次強調一而再再上我都強調\n462700\t491599\t每個人都要用電所以每個人都要負責,能源是選擇。所以我們現在的選擇都會取決於我們對於環境的破壞以及對於下一代子孫留下什麼環境給子孫。既然人家已經宣示了2035有停止藍莓、淘汰藍莓,我們當然應該要去重視,當然應該要去規劃。另外我們也認為現在核能已經被七大工業國認為說它不再反核,認為核能是乾淨的能源,我們也應該要尊重世界的潮流,這是趨勢。\n493201\t502631\t這也應該是我們專業的文官的判斷。不要再用政治意識形態綁住我們自己的手跟腳。我想這是我給經濟部、同仁所有的忠告。謝謝。\n","txt":"昨天5月1號勞動節今天馬上感謝趙偉舊排審希望能夠加薪減稅我覺得經濟部長這邊來\n閱讀能夠為經濟發展來實際的回饋到勞工的部分我覺得這是有意義跟有代表性的那不過呢在今年本來預計5月19號落日的這個法案我們現在也希望是說能夠展延10年可是過去到現在其實大家一直強調的是說提出這樣的政策誘因是不是不足而導致於說沒有辦法有很大的一個這個量能那現在我們也看到是說有要再提升可是提升的部分\n\n我不知道是勞動部有沒有給你正確的一個資訊,或是說你們部會裡面溝通。因為我在衛環委員會問勞動部啊,勞動部部長一直把這個高齡再進入等於是所謂的壯世代的這個勞工人力啊,當成是一個解方之一啊。就希望是說我們能夠來用,希望能夠這些高齡者或是說這個退休者能夠再進入企業,能夠來解決缺工的問題,否則的話現在缺工問題有多少人?部長知道嗎?\n確實各個行業都有提到這個困擾。確實啊!衛環委員會勞動部部長親口講現在缺工的人數差不多30萬到40萬全台灣各行業那如果說缺工的話你就沒有辦法有經濟活絡嘛因為畢竟工的部分是一個很重要的一個動力那我們現在在講如果說以針對現在的這一個行政院的版本也就是經濟部的版本這個150%的部分會不會還是誘因不足?\n在這個勞動部還有我們看到的數據其實去鼓勵那個45歲以上其實是非常好的一個部分讓他因為我們也聽到45歲他要重新再就業常常碰到這個困擾但是65歲以上第一個像委員講勞動部確實現在就有補助了他不需要用這個\nadequacy他其實就有機制那但是65歲以上的再回來就業的占比呢我們看到的數據確實還是少數確實還是少數啊就是因為本時也在講是說是不是誘因不夠其實我覺得以現代人的一個生理條件年齡來講的話其實這是\nbicyn 希望有誘因。\n部長如果說本席這邊在講是說有沒有可能在針對極具的部分就是說45你現在是講的是45歲以上但是我們現在講到是你們的版本就150嘛那本席也認為是說其實條高至少到200能夠有更強的一個力道那能不能有更極具的一個部分等一下我們再來主條討論的時候討論但是我希望部長能夠把這樣的一個意見不要預設歷史形態或說不要預設立場我們來共同討論好不好\n部長另外一個部分當然能源很重要啦問一下你的態度因為本時有看到現在G7七大工業國他們發表他說2035年逐步淘汰藍莓發電甚至報導講說這個是COP28以來最大的創舉2035年七大工業國已經宣誓要淘汰藍莓發電那我們現在台灣\n\n第一個就這個煤的部分這是為什麼我們一直在講增氣減煤希望能夠我們做得到嗎2035年那第二個我們做不做得到2035年我們也淘汰燃煤在2035年的時候事實上我們大部分的燃煤機組我們確實都會把他提早除役那大概應該剩下這個林口的就剩下本席現在所居住的地方林口火力發電廠三部機組燃煤發電\n因為委員也很清楚我們超超臨界第一個這個確實是比較新的機組。這個是比較新的機組那第二個這個機組的這個公務的改善都會發生。我想七大工業國也沒有哪一個國家他們不是用這種比較新的機組但是他們現在已經正式的宣誓、宣戰、淘汰藍媒發電。\n二零三五年逐步落實藍莓發電的淘汰,不再用藍莓發電。台灣,你剛剛講了,二零三五年到了之後只剩林口火力發電廠還是藍莓發電?會不會變成是說現在我們跟不上世界的趨勢?有沒有檢討的空間?部長,你只剩十幾天就在這個任期上了。我不希望你還是用這種政治意識形態。\n本席強調是因為當然這個是要跟之後再討論本席今天提出來因為這個是最新的G7的這個發表你有看到嗎?是\n他發表其實就兩大重點啊。2035淘汰藍莓發電以及宣示核能不再是,他不再反核,宣示核能是乾淨的電,乾淨的能源來源。他說不要再去提出反核的意見啦齁,那他這個是他們做出來的決議,那因為在G7我們的理解因為包括德國等等的,那他們就是做成一個共同決議,那這個是G7的一個決議,我們也看到了是。\n所以你認同他們的決議嗎?這是G7的決議我們當然會注意各國的發展的情形。經濟部長當然七大工業國七大工業國發表聯合發表的一個宣誓那我們的經濟部長認不認同這七大工業國的方向?\n議員 部長,世界的趨勢,為什麼我那麼的重視?\n就是因為我們都生活在地球村。大爺講COP26、28這樣子一路下來為什麼世界現在全世界大家一起要對抗這所謂的這個溫室效益。2050精靈碳排就是認為是說這環境破壞的是不可逆的也因此人類都在思考怎麼樣維持現有的生活力下還可以降低對環境的衝擊。能源是選擇我再次強調一而再再上我都強調\n每個人都要用電所以每個人都要負責,能源是選擇。所以我們現在的選擇都會取決於我們對於環境的破壞以及對於下一代子孫留下什麼環境給子孫。既然人家已經宣示了2035有停止藍莓、淘汰藍莓,我們當然應該要去重視,當然應該要去規劃。另外我們也認為現在核能已經被七大工業國認為說它不再反核,認為核能是乾淨的能源,我們也應該要尊重世界的潮流,這是趨勢。\n這也應該是我們專業的文官的判斷。不要再用政治意識形態綁住我們自己的手跟腳。我想這是我給經濟部、同仁所有的忠告。謝謝。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.080 --> 00:09.346\n昨天5月1號勞動節今天馬上感謝趙偉舊排審希望能夠加薪減稅我覺得經濟部長這邊來\n\n00:29.585 --> 00:57.813\n閱讀能夠為經濟發展來實際的回饋到勞工的部分我覺得這是有意義跟有代表性的那不過呢在今年本來預計5月19號落日的這個法案我們現在也希望是說能夠展延10年可是過去到現在其實大家一直強調的是說提出這樣的政策誘因是不是不足而導致於說沒有辦法有很大的一個這個量能那現在我們也看到是說有要再提升可是提升的部分\n\n01:16.954 --> 01:43.517\n我不知道是勞動部有沒有給你正確的一個資訊,或是說你們部會裡面溝通。因為我在衛環委員會問勞動部啊,勞動部部長一直把這個高齡再進入等於是所謂的壯世代的這個勞工人力啊,當成是一個解方之一啊。就希望是說我們能夠來用,希望能夠這些高齡者或是說這個退休者能夠再進入企業,能夠來解決缺工的問題,否則的話現在缺工問題有多少人?部長知道嗎?\n\n01:45.562 --> 02:14.103\n確實各個行業都有提到這個困擾。確實啊!衛環委員會勞動部部長親口講現在缺工的人數差不多30萬到40萬全台灣各行業那如果說缺工的話你就沒有辦法有經濟活絡嘛因為畢竟工的部分是一個很重要的一個動力那我們現在在講如果說以針對現在的這一個行政院的版本也就是經濟部的版本這個150%的部分會不會還是誘因不足?\n\n02:15.526 --> 02:19.169\n在這個勞動部還有我們看到的數據其實去鼓勵那個45歲以上其實是非常好的一個部分讓他因為我們也聽到45歲他要重新再就業常常碰到這個困擾但是65歲以上第一個像委員講勞動部確實現在就有補助了他不需要用這個\n\n02:37.620 --> 02:53.832\nadequacy他其實就有機制那但是65歲以上的再回來就業的占比呢我們看到的數據確實還是少數確實還是少數啊就是因為本時也在講是說是不是誘因不夠其實我覺得以現代人的一個生理條件年齡來講的話其實這是\n\n02:56.273 --> 02:57.634\nbicyn希望有誘因。\n\n03:25.444 --> 03:53.454\n部長如果說本席這邊在講是說有沒有可能在針對極具的部分就是說45你現在是講的是45歲以上但是我們現在講到是你們的版本就150嘛那本席也認為是說其實條高至少到200能夠有更強的一個力道那能不能有更極具的一個部分等一下我們再來主條討論的時候討論但是我希望部長能夠把這樣的一個意見不要預設歷史形態或說不要預設立場我們來共同討論好不好\n\n03:54.154 --> 04:22.087\n部長另外一個部分當然能源很重要啦問一下你的態度因為本時有看到現在G7七大工業國他們發表他說2035年逐步淘汰藍莓發電甚至報導講說這個是COP28以來最大的創舉2035年七大工業國已經宣誓要淘汰藍莓發電那我們現在台灣\n\n04:39.076 --> 04:50.282\n第一個就這個煤的部分這是為什麼我們一直在講增氣減煤希望能夠我們做得到嗎2035年那第二個我們做不做得到2035年我們也淘汰燃煤在2035年的時候事實上我們大部分的燃煤機組我們確實都會把他提早除役那大概應該剩下這個林口的就剩下本席現在所居住的地方林口火力發電廠三部機組燃煤發電\n\n05:08.212 --> 05:30.673\n因為委員也很清楚我們超超臨界第一個這個確實是比較新的機組。這個是比較新的機組那第二個這個機組的這個公務的改善都會發生。我想七大工業國也沒有哪一個國家他們不是用這種比較新的機組但是他們現在已經正式的宣誓、宣戰、淘汰藍媒發電。\n\n05:32.054 --> 05:56.248\n二零三五年逐步落實藍莓發電的淘汰,不再用藍莓發電。台灣,你剛剛講了,二零三五年到了之後只剩林口火力發電廠還是藍莓發電?會不會變成是說現在我們跟不上世界的趨勢?有沒有檢討的空間?部長,你只剩十幾天就在這個任期上了。我不希望你還是用這種政治意識形態。\n\n05:57.208 --> 06:06.987\n本席強調是因為當然這個是要跟之後再討論本席今天提出來因為這個是最新的G7的這個發表你有看到嗎?是\n\n06:07.813 --> 06:37.254\n他發表其實就兩大重點啊。2035淘汰藍莓發電以及宣示核能不再是,他不再反核,宣示核能是乾淨的電,乾淨的能源來源。他說不要再去提出反核的意見啦齁,那他這個是他們做出來的決議,那因為在G7我們的理解因為包括德國等等的,那他們就是做成一個共同決議,那這個是G7的一個決議,我們也看到了是。\n\n06:37.634 --> 06:54.137\n所以你認同他們的決議嗎?這是G7的決議我們當然會注意各國的發展的情形。經濟部長當然七大工業國七大工業國發表聯合發表的一個宣誓那我們的經濟部長認不認同這七大工業國的方向?\n\n06:55.280 --> 06:56.702\n議員部長,世界的趨勢,為什麼我那麼的重視?\n\n07:16.078 --> 07:41.839\n就是因為我們都生活在地球村。大爺講COP26、28這樣子一路下來為什麼世界現在全世界大家一起要對抗這所謂的這個溫室效益。2050精靈碳排就是認為是說這環境破壞的是不可逆的也因此人類都在思考怎麼樣維持現有的生活力下還可以降低對環境的衝擊。能源是選擇我再次強調一而再再上我都強調\n\n07:42.700 --> 08:11.599\n每個人都要用電所以每個人都要負責,能源是選擇。所以我們現在的選擇都會取決於我們對於環境的破壞以及對於下一代子孫留下什麼環境給子孫。既然人家已經宣示了2035有停止藍莓、淘汰藍莓,我們當然應該要去重視,當然應該要去規劃。另外我們也認為現在核能已經被七大工業國認為說它不再反核,認為核能是乾淨的能源,我們也應該要尊重世界的潮流,這是趨勢。\n\n08:13.201 --> 08:22.631\n這也應該是我們專業的文官的判斷。不要再用政治意識形態綁住我們自己的手跟腳。我想這是我給經濟部、同仁所有的忠告。謝謝。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.08,"end":9.346,"text":"昨天5月1號勞動節今天馬上感謝趙偉舊排審希望能夠加薪減稅我覺得經濟部長這邊來"},{"start":29.585,"end":57.813,"text":"閱讀能夠為經濟發展來實際的回饋到勞工的部分我覺得這是有意義跟有代表性的那不過呢在今年本來預計5月19號落日的這個法案我們現在也希望是說能夠展延10年可是過去到現在其實大家一直強調的是說提出這樣的政策誘因是不是不足而導致於說沒有辦法有很大的一個這個量能那現在我們也看到是說有要再提升可是提升的部分"},{"start":58.831,"end":76.954,"text":""},{"start":76.954,"end":103.517,"text":"我不知道是勞動部有沒有給你正確的一個資訊,或是說你們部會裡面溝通。因為我在衛環委員會問勞動部啊,勞動部部長一直把這個高齡再進入等於是所謂的壯世代的這個勞工人力啊,當成是一個解方之一啊。就希望是說我們能夠來用,希望能夠這些高齡者或是說這個退休者能夠再進入企業,能夠來解決缺工的問題,否則的話現在缺工問題有多少人?部長知道嗎?"},{"start":105.562,"end":134.103,"text":"確實各個行業都有提到這個困擾。確實啊!衛環委員會勞動部部長親口講現在缺工的人數差不多30萬到40萬全台灣各行業那如果說缺工的話你就沒有辦法有經濟活絡嘛因為畢竟工的部分是一個很重要的一個動力那我們現在在講如果說以針對現在的這一個行政院的版本也就是經濟部的版本這個150%的部分會不會還是誘因不足?"},{"start":135.526,"end":139.169,"text":"在這個勞動部還有我們看到的數據其實去鼓勵那個45歲以上其實是非常好的一個部分讓他因為我們也聽到45歲他要重新再就業常常碰到這個困擾但是65歲以上第一個像委員講勞動部確實現在就有補助了他不需要用這個"},{"start":157.62,"end":173.832,"text":"adequacy他其實就有機制那但是65歲以上的再回來就業的占比呢我們看到的數據確實還是少數確實還是少數啊就是因為本時也在講是說是不是誘因不夠其實我覺得以現代人的一個生理條件年齡來講的話其實這是"},{"start":176.273,"end":177.634,"text":" bicyn 希望有誘因。"},{"start":205.444,"end":233.454,"text":"部長如果說本席這邊在講是說有沒有可能在針對極具的部分就是說45你現在是講的是45歲以上但是我們現在講到是你們的版本就150嘛那本席也認為是說其實條高至少到200能夠有更強的一個力道那能不能有更極具的一個部分等一下我們再來主條討論的時候討論但是我希望部長能夠把這樣的一個意見不要預設歷史形態或說不要預設立場我們來共同討論好不好"},{"start":234.154,"end":262.087,"text":"部長另外一個部分當然能源很重要啦問一下你的態度因為本時有看到現在G7七大工業國他們發表他說2035年逐步淘汰藍莓發電甚至報導講說這個是COP28以來最大的創舉2035年七大工業國已經宣誓要淘汰藍莓發電那我們現在台灣"},{"start":263.097,"end":278.422,"text":""},{"start":279.076,"end":290.282,"text":"第一個就這個煤的部分這是為什麼我們一直在講增氣減煤希望能夠我們做得到嗎2035年那第二個我們做不做得到2035年我們也淘汰燃煤在2035年的時候事實上我們大部分的燃煤機組我們確實都會把他提早除役那大概應該剩下這個林口的就剩下本席現在所居住的地方林口火力發電廠三部機組燃煤發電"},{"start":308.212,"end":330.673,"text":"因為委員也很清楚我們超超臨界第一個這個確實是比較新的機組。這個是比較新的機組那第二個這個機組的這個公務的改善都會發生。我想七大工業國也沒有哪一個國家他們不是用這種比較新的機組但是他們現在已經正式的宣誓、宣戰、淘汰藍媒發電。"},{"start":332.054,"end":356.248,"text":"二零三五年逐步落實藍莓發電的淘汰,不再用藍莓發電。台灣,你剛剛講了,二零三五年到了之後只剩林口火力發電廠還是藍莓發電?會不會變成是說現在我們跟不上世界的趨勢?有沒有檢討的空間?部長,你只剩十幾天就在這個任期上了。我不希望你還是用這種政治意識形態。"},{"start":357.208,"end":366.987,"text":"本席強調是因為當然這個是要跟之後再討論本席今天提出來因為這個是最新的G7的這個發表你有看到嗎?是"},{"start":367.813,"end":397.254,"text":"他發表其實就兩大重點啊。2035淘汰藍莓發電以及宣示核能不再是,他不再反核,宣示核能是乾淨的電,乾淨的能源來源。他說不要再去提出反核的意見啦齁,那他這個是他們做出來的決議,那因為在G7我們的理解因為包括德國等等的,那他們就是做成一個共同決議,那這個是G7的一個決議,我們也看到了是。"},{"start":397.634,"end":414.137,"text":"所以你認同他們的決議嗎?這是G7的決議我們當然會注意各國的發展的情形。經濟部長當然七大工業國七大工業國發表聯合發表的一個宣誓那我們的經濟部長認不認同這七大工業國的方向?"},{"start":415.28,"end":416.702,"text":"議員 部長,世界的趨勢,為什麼我那麼的重視?"},{"start":436.078,"end":461.839,"text":"就是因為我們都生活在地球村。大爺講COP26、28這樣子一路下來為什麼世界現在全世界大家一起要對抗這所謂的這個溫室效益。2050精靈碳排就是認為是說這環境破壞的是不可逆的也因此人類都在思考怎麼樣維持現有的生活力下還可以降低對環境的衝擊。能源是選擇我再次強調一而再再上我都強調"},{"start":462.7,"end":491.599,"text":"每個人都要用電所以每個人都要負責,能源是選擇。所以我們現在的選擇都會取決於我們對於環境的破壞以及對於下一代子孫留下什麼環境給子孫。既然人家已經宣示了2035有停止藍莓、淘汰藍莓,我們當然應該要去重視,當然應該要去規劃。另外我們也認為現在核能已經被七大工業國認為說它不再反核,認為核能是乾淨的能源,我們也應該要尊重世界的潮流,這是趨勢。"},{"start":493.201,"end":502.631,"text":"這也應該是我們專業的文官的判斷。不要再用政治意識形態綁住我們自己的手跟腳。我想這是我給經濟部、同仁所有的忠告。謝謝。"}]}}}}